All across America and around the world, this
is Veterans Radio. This is Veterans Radio. And
now, your host for today's program, Dale Throneberry.
And welcome to veterans radio, my name is Dale
Throneberry a cw2 helicopter pilot in Vietnam
1969 and welcome to today's program. I'm really
excited to have you here We're going to be introducing
a new contributor to our program and I'll be
introducing her in just a moment But before we
get into that, we are going to thank our sponsors
because we can't do this program without our
sponsors. And so here we go. Now we want to make
sure we thank Legal Help for Veterans. Legal
Help for Veterans specializes in veteran disability
claims. Give Legal Help a call at 800 -693 -4800
or go to their website LegalHelpForVeterans .com.
The National Veterans Business Development Council,
better known as NVBDC, is the nation's leading
third -party authority for certification of veteran
-owned businesses. For more information, go to
their website, NVBDC .org, or give them a call
at 888 - 237 -8433. And of course we want to
thank the Irwin Prescott American Legion Post
46 and the Charles S. Kettles Vietnam Veterans
of America Chapter 310 both of Ann Arbor, Michigan.
If you'd like to support Veterans Radio, please
go to our website veteransradio .org and click
on the donate button. Thank you in advance. Okay,
now for today's program. So joining me on the
air right now is a good friend for quite a while,
actually. We didn't know that she was into podcasting
and everything, and now we've discovered this.
So I want to introduce to the world Shelly Rood.
Shelly is a former United States Army Reserve
captain. She's a broadcast television executive,
host of Hardcore and At Ease. does a whole lot
of things to help veterans, but she's also the
creator of Others Over Self, which is kind of
really cool. I'll have her describe that to you.
But so here we go. So here's our new friend,
Shelly Rood. Shelly, welcome to Veterans Radio.
Dale, it's super good to be here today. Thank
you for the honor of standing up next to you
and co -hosting. Well, it's going to be fun,
I think. I'm excited to work with you and utilize
your connections with the different people that
you're talking to, especially in the veterans
community, to let our audience know that there
is help and there's assistance out there for
them and tell a few stories here and there and
go from there. So tell me your background. What
did you do when you were in the military? How
did you get into the military? Well, I'm the
person that knew too much. I served in the reserves
for over a 16 -year period of time, and I was
military intel. And as a military intelligence
person, you do get to learn a lot of the nation's
secrets. You also are entrusted with a lot of
the heaviness that can come with being a service
member. And after a decade plus of that work,
there was a call in my heart to become a chaplain
and to serve the soldiers on a different level.
So just as I was following my desire and my call
to chaplaincy, I was actually discharged for
a medical reason. And my military career ended.
I didn't want it to end, but like so many of
us, sometimes we find ourselves faced with with
a dead end in front of us and so I've quite simply
continued my work as a civilian to lean into
the hearts of veterans whatever and however I
can and that's taken us from work to running
health and wellness retreats to focusing on peer
support specifically for military women and really
just teaching our veterans how to share their
own stories how to reframe some of the experiences
that we've lived how to take So much of the life
that has been part of our own stories and make
it something that we're comfortable with And
something that sits in a good place inside of
us So i'm interested to see How our audience
here at veterans radio? Can can learn their own
version of storytelling and go deeper into the
20 Well almost 25 years now you've been on the
air. Yeah, that's hard to believe I think we've
done a little over 1100 Full -length programs
and I think we're up to 500 podcasts now Absolutely
incredible and even in my time I've been a listener
for years now and it's amazing that there's no
shortage of stories in the veterans community
I think no, no there are there's never a shortage
of stories and we you know, we love being able
to talk to the veterans of all generations and
you know, unfortunately, we're kind of gone through
with the World War II veterans, Korea is starting
to fade away, Vietnam veterans even are, you
know, we're losing them at a rapid pace. even
today and I'm anxious to you know start moving
into the uh what we call or I call the younger
generation which would be yours and to start
including them more and more in our stories and
getting them to to talk to the world and letting
people know what their experiences were like
and as you mentioned what you're trying to do
is to help them kind of get over that hump and
you know assimilate back into quote, civilian
society, because sometimes that's a pretty difficult
thing to do. It is. And you know what, Dale?
I'll take that compliment as a younger veteran,
because at the age of 42, I do not feel young
most mornings. But it's good to hear that I'm
still part of that. Well, I tell you, you know,
at 70, whatever it is now, that's young. So tell
me, you know, Well, when we were discussing the
idea of you coming on and helping us with some
programming, tell us what kind of things that
you would do and maybe who you were going to
talk about today. Well, like you said, we do
have a flood of different veterans, you know,
you're coining them the younger ones, but I am
part of the 911 generation. That was the reason
why I raised my hand and joined. And so a lot
of the OIF, OEF stories are now coming out and
being told. And so there is a need and a desire
for this next wave of veterans to have and learn
how to tell their stories and use their own voices.
And so today in particular, I would like to share
with you a Parts of an interview that we have
done with a woman named Erin done And she is
an Air Force veteran and if you've ever made
a life decision Based on somebody being really
good -looking then you're gonna love the next
few minutes of her interview I'm So happy to
be here as a co -host on veterans radio and this
conversation is With somebody that I think a
lot of the veterans radio audience is going to
recognize immediately Because the path that she
has taken is one that a lot of us have walked
So Erin Dunn joined the Air Force right out of
high school. She's here in southeastern, Michigan
College was not on the table for her. The family
didn't have a military background and full disclosure
a very persuasive recruiter showed up at the
right moment for her. And so what started as
a leap of faith actually turned into 10 years
of active duty, six of them in public affairs,
four of them as a special agent with the Air
Force Office of Special Investigations. So think
NCIS, the Air Force version. And so this is the
first portion of my conversation with Aaron Dunn.
Okay, so why don't we play that right now. And
we all know it's coming up as Aaron Dunn and
Shelley Rood. So here we go. College wasn't an
option for me when I graduated from high school.
I live in the Tri -County area in southeastern
Michigan where going to work for one of the big
three automakers was kind of the thing to do,
at least in my family, and I couldn't see myself
doing it. So I just decided that maybe the military
was a good option. And it was a good option.
And which branch did you end up joining? I joined
the Air Force and I stayed on active duty for
10 years. Was there a rhyme or reason for the
Air Force as opposed to the other branches? Like,
you know, I want to be a Marine. Yeah, my Air
Force recruiter was really cute and I fell head
over heels in luck with it. I originally was
going to join the Navy and then an Air Force
recruiter came to my school and I went and listened
to him and I went home with stars in my eyes.
All right. And did those stars carry you through
for the next 10 years? Yeah, pretty much. Well,
no, not really. But then it became my own personal
grit, gumption, on getting me through. I love
that. So what did you do in the Air Force? Well,
the first six years, I was in public affairs.
So I was into... journalism and community relations
and base tours and special events and for my
last four years out of the ten I was a special
agent with the Air Force Office of Special Investigations.
A special agent with the Air Force Office of
Special Investigations. What does that mean other
than you're super special? It's kind of like
for anybody who watches the NCIS shows, I was
the Air Force equivalent to the NCIS agent. Very
cool. Now, that seems like you would have to
be trained or you would have to have some type
of specialty background to get into that. The
different branches of the service all have different
requirements. For instance, with NCIS, so the
Naval Criminal Investigative Service, they're
all civilians. Air Force is... Officer, civilians,
and enlisted army is, I believe, all warrant
officers, so I applied for, it's a special duty
in the Air Force, and I applied for it, and I
got it, but ironically, my public affairs skills
translated directly into special investigations,
because most of what we did was interview people,
take notes, right up. My public affairs skills
were valuable, crucial to being successful at
being a special agent. I know that you did go
into the military and you went in at a young
age right out of high school, right? But you
weren't military for your entire life, especially
even now you're affiliated with the military.
It's not like you're some 25 -year retiree. So
tell us about what that journey looked like,
will you? You know, most of my career has been
with the military since I got out of the military.
All but about seven or eight years of it. And
so right now I work for the Army. I never really
stopped serving. It's not that I had a huge desire
to stay with the government or work for the military.
With the military, there are a lot of veterans
and there is a certain comfort level. in working
with a lot of veterans. And so I just sort of
naturally gravitated toward it because they expect
the same type of self -discipline, not quite
the same demands, but the same type of bearing
as what one would find on active duty. And I
have that, I earned that while I was in the service.
And so it just became natural fit. So do you
think that people would look for that as a positive
of why they want to work with you or do you think
that you are attracted to places and people that
celebrate that? Yeah it is a little bit of both.
There is a mindset for women veterans know this
there's a mindset to serving in the military.
When that mindset gets formed at such a young
and impressionable age, it's comforting to stay
within it, particularly when I had very little
exposure to the military growing up. My stepfather
was a retired military, but he was retired by
the time he became my stepfather. So it's a mindset
that you learn, it's like no other. It's like
no other. You're very true. I want to know more
about your call to be a lawyer and how law school
entered your life. So I say that I'm a lawyer,
but I'm not a licensed attorney. So I don't have
a law practice. When I was in high school, two
of the things that always appealed to me was
one, maybe becoming a lawyer and two, or becoming
a journalist. And luckily I was able to eventually
do both things, but because college wasn't really
an option for me and I joined the Air Force instead,
I couldn't, there was no path for me to just
go to law school. And that happened much later
in life. It was really by accident. I discovered
this online program, got some information about
it and ultimately enrolled in law school. By
that time, I had gotten my bachelor's degree
while I was on active duty. Then I got my master's
degree. And I just really wanted to know more
about this program, then I realized this was
a way for me to get that law degree that I had
always wanted. There was nothing standing in
my way to do it. It was an online program, though.
I was a single mom at the time. So... Erin, that
sounds like there's a few things standing in
your way. Meaning I can do this program and still
be a mom and go online when I needed to. So it
was really tailored for working adults and there
were a lot of single parents and doctors actually
that were in the class. By that time, so that
was 2007 when I started. By that time, I was
well established in a career. So I didn't really
have a desire to just completely change careers.
Getting the law degree at that point was more
or less a bucket list item. So here you are with
your military service. You've gotten your bachelor's
degree. You've gotten your master's degree. Why
did you feel this need to continue your higher
education? Well, It wasn't a need to continue
the higher education as it was a need to learn
the field of law. I just really wanted to. And
there was no reason not to pursue it. I just
felt like I would be really fulfilled having
a law degree and learning the law. And it paid
off. I mean, I was very happy learning the law.
And tell me how you were able to incorporate
that into your job or your career or because
you said that you weren't looking for a shift.
So how do you incorporate the law into what you're
already doing? In my day to day work, there are
a lot of things. At the time that I finished
the degree, I was a geopolitical planner or more
or less a foreign policy advisor with the joint
staff in Virginia. Being able to understand international
policy and military law and a whole host of issues,
cyber law, cyber warfare, are things that I was
able to contribute to because I had the law degree.
I was able to discern what international and
national policies were to help the joint staff
and their four -star staffs understand the geopolitical
ramifications of contingency operations. Can
you for those of us out here that don't speak
army or military or Air Force give us an example
of what that means? One of the things that I
did is I traveled I was on a team That traveled
all over the world to teach for start generals
and their staffs the implications the diplomatic
implications or worldwide implications of a war
or a natural disaster or something within the
area that they were responsible for. And it was
always a whole of government approach. So we
worked with a lot of different government agencies,
including the State Department, to help the military
understand how their actions affected other government
agencies and other countries, as well as non
-governmental. organizations. And I was able
to help define the policies and impacts. And
you had your son at this point. I shared custody
at the time. Hold on son, I gotta go talk to
this sheik over here. I'll be back next week.
What in the world was a day in the life like
for you at that time? Usually when I was doing
things like that, I was either writing about
policy if I was home or I was traveling and then
my son was with his father. But we actually did
have some moments of, excuse me, son, I have
an overseas call I have to take. It's so interesting.
I have a 15 year old son now and I have two younger
ones. But when you hear about just the careers
of what other people do and what the other moms
do particularly, I kind of feel like you and
I are. on the outside of what a normal mom's
day -to -day role can look like and has looked
like. And I think it makes for very interesting
coffee hours with the other parents. It absolutely
can. Yeah. I have a picture of my son when he
was about nine years old in full battle dress
gear. He put on my body armor and a helmet and
I got this great picture of him. And that pretty
much says it all about the life of a single mom.
in and around the military. Yeah it absolutely
does. Now tell me about journalists. You wanted
to be a journalist and I went to college at Western
Michigan University for journalism and I know
what drove me to do that. I mean I was raised
watching Murphy Brown and April O 'Neill from
the Ninja Turtles was a reporter and so I had
a lot of these strong advocates for journalism
that were women. What attracted you, Aaron, to
want to get into that field? I was good at writing,
and it was actually my stepfather who suggested
that maybe I would consider a career as a journalist.
But once again, college wasn't really an option
for me, and the military provided that skill,
the education and training necessary to help
me make that happen. And how have you seen your
love for journalism play into all of this diplomatic
recommendations that you're doing? Writing skills,
the ability to interpret and translate what the
bigger picture is. So, journalism for the military
is... called Public Affairs. And what that means
is I was a writer for a base newspaper for a
few different types of assignments that I had.
And I learned how to write various types of news
articles, feature articles and full length and
breaking news. But Because everything bases they
operate like their own little towns, you know,
a lot of people don't know if you do have your
own little base newspaper Yes, you know now everything
can be digital. Of course Yes, you didn't know
who the commander was necessarily or who the
commander's family was So it was up to public
affairs to send a journalist out to cover the
story Just like you would do if your town got
a new mayor and they did a feature article on
the family So that's the type of stuff that you're
talking about, right? And then later on in life
when I was still working for the military and
I was doing policy and I was doing strategic
communications but writing was always a skill
that it was a high level skill that required
a lot of thinking. Now that high level skill
that requires a lot of thinking is best done
in a nice quiet cushy office where nobody will
bother you. Is that what you operated in, that
type of environment when you were overseas? Never.
My first assignment when I was in Florida was
in McDill Air Force Base in Tampa. And we had,
it was a huge base and we had F -16s. I think
the whole six years I was in public affairs on
active duty, I never had a weekend off. I was
out and about all day, every day. picking up
stories, taking photographs, interviewing people,
and then at night going back and doing the layout
design for the newspaper, which I still have
done online as well. It taught me how to interact
with a whole lot of different kinds of people.
My second assignment in public affairs was over
in Germany. I was doing it for another culture
and interacting with people that I mean, I was
in a place I never dreamed that I could ever
be in. And so I was doing something that I really
loved, in a beautiful country, with wonderful
people. Same with my third assignment. I was
in Greece, I was on a Greek island, and it was
really great. But there's a lot of sacrifice
to that. You go where the news is, and if the
news happens at seven o 'clock on a Sunday morning,
then you're up, you know? And doing it, so. And
so this was during military time or this was
after military time during yeah during military
time So then what tell us about that transition
From okay. I'm gonna get out of the Air Force.
What's next? How do you make that jump? The only
real advantage that I had is that when I got
out of the service, because I had been a special
agent, I wore civilian clothes for the last four
years, so I hadn't worn uniforms in four years.
So I didn't have any problem transitioning that
way. But I was stationed in Colorado at the time,
and at the time I had decided to get out, and
I really loved Colorado, and I wanted to stay
there a while longer. But I had spent four years
there in a law enforcement capacity, so... everybody
that I knew, for the most part, were related
in some way to law enforcement. The challenge
that I faced there was that I knew, even though
I was good at being a special agent, I knew that
I didn't want to do that my entire career. And
I really wanted to go back to public affairs
or public relations. But I didn't have any contacts
in Colorado because I had never been in public
affairs. in Colorado. Can you share that? Why
did you feel like you didn't want to stay as
a special agent long term? I'm almost getting
this sense of like a movement from a dark, heavy
type of daily workload into something that is
potentially lighter. Am I getting that right?
Absolutely, you are. I have a pretty, or at least
I used to, I have a pretty bubbly personality
and I had some senior people mentor me when I
was in public affairs who warned me about going
into OSI as a special agent because they didn't
think that it would fit my personality very well
and they were right. Being in that law enforcement
world is very special, it's very privileged,
but it is very heavy and there is a certain mentality
that it takes to continue a career in that. And
I didn't really have this burning desire to be
an FBI agent or other kind of law enforcement.
So after four years of doing it, that was one
of the reasons why I got out was just because
I didn't want to be a special agent for the long
time. But you did have federal agencies trying
to recruit you as you were coming out of the
service. I worked routinely with the Federal
Bureau of Investigation, ATF, Drug Enforcement
Agency. I worked with a lot of them, and it was
difficult. for them to find qualified females
who had a bachelor's degree. My bachelor's degree
was in criminal justice and so I did have people
trying to recruit me because they needed females
and I rejected all of them. I could have done
that for a sense of safety and security when
I was getting out and transitioning out of the
service but I really wanted to go back to public
affairs because I knew that law enforcement wasn't
for me. Now, how old was your son at this point?
Oh, he wasn't born yet. Oh, he wasn't born yet.
No, he wasn't born yet. I had him much later
after I got out of the service. Yeah, because,
I mean, the service is like one small part of
your life. You have so many incredible... octopus
tentacles that come out after that. So you're
done with the service. You know, you're Aaron
Dunn ready to take on the world. No kids, right?
I mean, you're ready to go. So you went from
the military and you're looking for a public
relations job. Where did you land? I landed at
a nonprofit in Littleton, Colorado, and it was
a very low paying job, but it helped me to transition.
I think I was only in that job for about six
months. but it helped me to transition out and
to get my footing as a civilian and learn how
to maneuver through the world when I don't have
that military safety net behind me. And then
what came next? I spent another couple of years
in Colorado and then eventually I moved to southeastern
Virginia, sort of the Virginia Beach area. and
landed a really good job with the Virginia Department
of Transportation. And I stayed with them for
about five years before I migrated back to working
for the military. That was the first part. That
was amazing. This is great. And I'm anxious for
our audience to listen to the second half of
the interview. So what are we going to be going
into for the next 15 minutes or so? Well, so
in part one, Erin took us through her Air Force
path. And the next segment is where it really
gets personal. She did deploy to Iraq as a government
civilian. She was a single mom still in law school.
She's taking online classes at 3 AM and running
to a bunker when indirect fire is coming in.
And then she gets back on and just picks up where
the class left off. And what she brought home
from that deployment, it wasn't just a completed
degree. It was something that sounded Harder
to name it was harder to build from and and she
really battles the ability to stay functional
when everything around her seems to be working
against her. So in the second part of the interview,
we're going to dig a little bit deeper into her
talking about post -traumatic stress. But it's
done in a way that we don't often hear. She doesn't
talk about this as a diagnosis to manage. She
talks about it as a terrain that needs to be
understood. And so what she's figured out from
operating from her center really will help us
understand how we can live when we feel like
the world around us won't. calm down. I know
this is advice that I need to hear because I
have a two year old and six year old and a 16
year old and sometimes my world just doesn't
want to calm down. Right. OK. So here we go.
We're going to go right back into the interview
with Aaron Dunn. In 2010, I had an opportunity
come across my desk to deploy in a public affairs
capacity as a government civilian to support
the troops over in Iraq and I had lost my father,
who lived with me, and he and I were very close.
He passed away in late 2009, so when this opportunity
came across my desk, I was still really floundering.
I was still a mom and I was still in law school,
but I just needed something else, something different.
So I did. I left my son with his father for almost
a year, and I deployed to Iraq. and experienced
a lot of the same things that our troops did
over there. It was a very dangerous scenario.
But I had an amazing job and I worked with some
wonderful people, including a lot of single moms
who voluntarily deployed with their units or
individually and left their kids behind, too.
And it was tough. And I asked you the question
of what is the most hardcore thing that Aaron
Dunn has ever done. And your answer to me was
that it was the 2011 deployment where you had
to leave your child. Yes, that was a big sacrifice.
And I think that anything hardcore that we do
involves some sort of risk and some sort of sacrifice.
But it doesn't necessarily mean it's a permanent
sacrifice. So it was a very difficult year. It
was very dangerous and I was still in law school
online. So I would work really long days, go
back and catch a couple hours of sleep and then
set my alarm for about 3 a .m. and log in to
online classes back in the United States. And
then sometimes I had to close my computer and
run to a bunker if we had indirect fire coming
through. And how do you feel? I can just imagine
if, because I took online courses as well, and
I can just imagine somebody just like, hold on,
I'll be right back. And you're just ducking out.
That's exactly, you know, I would say, I'm sorry,
I'll be right back. We have indirect fire. I
have to go. And I'd go stand in a bunker until
it was all clear. And then I'd go back and the
class would still be going on. And that's if
my wife I worked. and I would just get back on
and say, okay, you know, I'll as well. So sometimes
it was really, really scary. Sometimes we had
actual explosions close to us and sometimes we
didn't. It was a very intense pace and it made
me fully appreciate all the wonderful things,
friends and family that I had back home. Was
your teacher just like A, A plus every time that
happened? Erin gets a pass. Yes. Yes. I was able
to keep in touch with my son while I was gone
and it was maybe that was one of the most hardcore
things about what I did because I took a big
risk with my own personal life going over there
feeling fairly confident that everything was
going to be okay but but you didn't have a sense
of peace during this time never no I didn't have
a sense of peace Of course, when I went over
there, it was more or less to help me find my
footing in a life without my father beside me,
cheering me on. The peace developed over time.
The inner peace, there was no peace to be had
over in Iraq while I was there. What I'm hearing
you say is that it is possible. It takes time
and focus and hard work. But it is possible to
have literal chaos and explosions going on around
you and be able to feel calm on the inside and
be able to dedicate your mind and your thoughts
to what is going to be next and how can I make
the most of the situation? Is that something
that you brought home to your child? Hopefully
what I brought home to my child was without the
chaos, but yes, and I think That ability to stay
focused among chaos is something that I got from
the military and that I really value. It has
helped me through some really hard times over
the years, especially like when my father was
dying or if there was a family emergency or things
were absolutely crazy at work and then my car
breaks down. That ability to to keep my focus
and concentration going on what was in front
of me versus what was around me, a valuable skill
that I think the military can really help people
develop. I think it is too, Erin. And so, you
know, our podcast is called Hardcore and At Ease,
and At Ease is a military command. And as you
know, when you are given the command to be at
ease, it doesn't mean that you go lay down. When
you are in the position of at ease, it means
that you can relax your shoulders and kind of
shake things out a little bit, but you don't
lose your focus. You literally do not move your
feet. You're still stuck in place so that you
can kind of shake things off. And it is that
ability to have one foot firmly planted in your
values and yet still allow your personality and
your lifestyle to flourish without losing focus
of that hardcore task at hand. And your hardcore
task was raising your son. And your hardcore
task was how can I be the best legal advisor
possible to these diplomats so that they can
make these significant and life altering decisions
in their work? So tell me a little bit about
What it took for for this shift in how to be
at ease and Is is there like a moment in time
or is there just a time in your life where you
really figured out what your values were I Don't
think there was one particular time my values
my personal pursuits And how I feel about myself
has all happened through interacting with the
world over the course of a lifetime. But it was
probably about 10 years ago when I was finishing
up law school and I had all these friends who
were taking the bar exam. I was studying for
the veteran service officer exam. So that's what
I did right when I finished law school. everyone
else was studying for the FAR, I was studying
for this other exam because I had been through
a little bit with the Veterans Administration
and applied for benefits and it was always so
frustrating to me and so I knew that I wanted
to be able to help Veterans understand their
benefits with my law degree. Is that what you're
doing now? Yes, to a certain extent. I cannot
be a qualified certified veteran service officer
because I'm a federal employee and it's a conflict
of interest because veteran service officers
could potentially argue on behalf of a veteran
to the federal government. So a federal employee
cannot potentially argue to the federal government.
So you're playing both sides. Yes. So, um, but
I started off a full 10 years ago helping veterans
who just retired or got out of the service and
just didn't quite understand. Some of them were
really suffering and they hadn't either been
awarded the amount of benefits that they actually
earned or they hadn't been awarded any benefits
at all and didn't even know where to begin. So
I started off just talking to helping them understand
this is what the VA needs, this is what they're
looking for, this is how you prove it. You can
have these conversations with this particular
demographic because you are one of them. Obviously,
you have served in the military and so you have
that side of it, but you also were over there
as a civilian. and you know what it's like to
be working on a focused task at two in the morning
and run out because rocket fire is coming in.
You know, and so shared with me that you do have
post -traumatic stress. Yes. And I'm interested
to know as such a highly accomplished woman and
as an educated and intellectual mind that you've
done a lot of studying on the brain and the triggers
associated with post -traumatic stress. Would
you like to get into that just a little bit?
It's interesting because you talk about values.
One of the things that I have learned to value
is my own personal mental well -being, and that
doesn't come easy. For some people like me, I
spend my days coping, evaluating, minimizing,
recovering from or apologizing for my reactions
to PTSD triggers. That is a Those are my daily
chores. Outside of taking a shower, outside of
earning a living, I know that I have to do that
every day. And unfortunately, that is nothing
that the VA has ever shared with me. I've learned
so many things about post -traumatic stress disorder
through navigating my own journey that I think
I'm a better advocate. for veterans because of
this. And I've had to fight with the VA for everything
that I have. It's not just a journey. It's like
an uphill journey. At times with veteran care,
what we look at is pushing a boulder up a hill.
The little wins are just little wins. You've
still got a long way to go. And Aaron, what I
love so much about your story is that it's not
a victim story. You chose to enlist. You chose
to go overseas. You sought to be deployed. Even
as a civilian, you volunteered to go back into
the line of fire. And so I've never gotten this
sort of like unfair victim mentality from you.
What I've always been able to appreciate about
you is the reality of, yes, I'm walking into
the war zone. And yes, my brain is changed because
of it. And you are such a great example of somebody
who is a highly accomplished, highly intellectual
person who is not denying these issues. You can
be a beautiful, successful contributor to society
as a veteran, as somebody living with post -traumatic
stress. You have to pay attention to it. You
have to treat it like you would any other medical
issue. So would you mind kind of peeling back
those layers a little bit and sharing with me,
what does that look like, you know, when you
say that you're planning, avoiding, coping, minimizing
the PTSD reactions? What do you mean? Well, you
know, a couple of times now I've spoken to veterans
groups about PTSD coping skills. And one of the
things that is always prevalent is the threat
of being overwhelmed when interacting with the
world. Most times, I guess I could say, there's
a direct correlation between sensory overload
and PTSD triggers. So when I talk about coping,
minimizing, evaluating, I take active steps to
determine if I'm going out of my house into society
for whatever purpose, whether it's going to the
dentist or going to a grocery store or going
to my office, I evaluate what are the different
scenarios that I might encounter that could potentially
trigger me. And if necessary, take some steps
to minimize them. Go at a different time. Play
music while I'm interacting in whatever engagement
is going on. those are useful recommendations,
even for those of us that perhaps just struggle
with the sensory overload in general. The grocery
store is a really good example where I have a
hard time, especially if I have to bring my children.
That is a very, very difficult and challenging
task. And I'm with you. I've learned that if
I can put in an earbud and just play a little
bit of my preferential background music, to calm
my nerves while I'm doing that task, it does
feel like a weight is lifted. Do you have any
other recommendations of these type of coping
methods that we could use on a regular basis?
In addition to music, I don't leave home without
earplugs. And I'm not talking about earbuds,
but something to actually block out the sound.
I have prescription glasses and I always make
sure that they can automatically go into sunglasses
when I go outside and just it helps to minimize
some of the senses if I'm in sensory overload.
I have no problem being in a grocery store and
sitting on the floor or being anywhere and sitting
on the floor and I call that intentional grounding.
It just helps me to reconnect with the things
around me and block out a little bit of the chaos
that's going on, especially when you go to a
grocery store and it's like rush hour and you're
going right after work or the day before a holiday.
It can be overwhelming for anybody, much less
someone with sensory issues. And a lot of times
people with PTSD do have correlating sensory
issues. They can get overloaded pretty easily.
So what I'm hearing you say is it's almost like
you're taking initiative and steps to gain some
type of control back over your senses. You can't
control the sounds in the grocery store, but
if you put the earplugs in, yes, you can control
that. You can't control the foot traffic around
you, but if you sit down, you can control that
little space. The word control is a key word
for people who suffer from post -traumatic stress
because... their brain, the physiological makeup
of their brain changes in response to trauma.
And for people with post -traumatic stress, the
long term, their brain never went back to normal
after they experienced a traumatic event. So,
quite literally, there is a lot of things that
are out of their control. And because of the
brain changes, they no longer have the ability
to... step back in their mind and evaluate what's
going on because they're in a constant fight
or flight mode. So taking some steps to control
our own environment can really help us calm down.
But when it goes back to advocacy for veterans,
unfortunately, I've spent decades in the VA system
and none of that was ever addressed by the VA.
It's stuff that I had to discover entirely on
my own. I've heard a lot more discussion recently
about post -traumatic growth as opposed to post
-traumatic recovery because as you're saying
recovery in many ways physiologically is not
an option and can you describe for me what it
would look like to be somebody who experiences
post -traumatic growth? One can come How do I
want to say this? New skills with post -traumatic
stress, there are things that are in a person
that are very different, but that also offers
people an opportunity to learn to maneuver the
world in a way that they normally wouldn't have.
And so they can grow from that. They can learn
new skills. they can go back into their inner
self almost easier because they know that they
have changed. Instead of denying the change and
fighting the change. I think that's one of the
most difficult things about post -traumatic stress
is you don't really always know what that change
is. You're fighting something, but it's not always
obvious and so... To grow with it, you just have
to be able to define what it is that's happening
and allow yourself to feel it. Do you have a
daily habit that helps you really own this ability
to stay grounded, to stay at ease with all of
this chaos around you? I take some time every
morning. For me, the mornings are when I'm mentally
clearer. So I allow myself to reflect on the
day coming up or the day that happened yesterday.
But also, and that might be an hour and a half,
I mean, sometimes I will wake up, set an alarm
much earlier than what I need to get ready for
work, just so I can have that quiet time to myself
to think. and feel and reflect most days of the
week after work. Even if I'm just working at
home at my kitchen table, I will just sit down
for about 30 minutes in silence and allow myself
to focus and feel. When I talk about feel, if
I'm feeling overwhelmed and I want to cry, then
I allow myself to cry. And I give myself permission
to feel bad. Erin, you don't strike me as a woman
that has cried a whole bunch in her lifetime.
Did you say you don't strike? Or I don't strike
you, is that what you said? No, I mean, I feel,
from what I know about you, I feel like we're
similar in the fact that, yeah, we can cry, but
it takes a lot for us to get there. Like a skill
that you've developed over time, and now you're
finally at a place in life where you can allow
yourself to do that. I think my skill was forcing
myself not to and it caused a lot of damage.
So now one of my values to myself is that I'm
not going to do myself any more damage by hiding
negative emotions because negative emotions don't
get better with time. There's so much wisdom
in that statement. Talk to me for a minute about
advocacy. We are highlighting you in our Women,
Better, and Strong program because you are a
woman who really embodies the value of advocacy
and the ability to speak out on behalf of something.
Is advocacy something that you learned from other
people growing up or is it something that you
saw in the people around you? I didn't see it
growing up. It was something that I began as
a teenager. to escape a very chaotic household.
So at the time, I would have equated advocacy
with volunteerism. I've always volunteered for
things and developed my own value of advocacy.
It's just been within the last 10 years that
I've really stayed focused on helping veterans
and helping veterans understand what they are
entitled to. and how they can go about getting
it. And so what I'm hearing from you is advocacy
is a choice that we can make in order to escape
a current situation or scenario that we're in.
I simply learned advocacy as a coping mechanism
when I was younger, but over time, You learn
your own values and you learn what you're passionate
about. And that's where the advocacy comes from,
is being passionate about an issue that not many
people know how to tackle, but is desperately
needed. Well, that was really great, Shelley.
And I greatly appreciate the effort of that recording.
I'm looking forward to I think it's gonna be
very exciting having you providing with some
of these stories and You know, hopefully at some
point in the future doing the whole program by
yourself Sort of like a student piloting here,
you know, and what sooner or later? We're just
gonna say okay you take off on your own. You're
going solo here so we are going to end up the
program now with with Shelly and want to thank
everybody for listening. Actually, I want to
actually Shelley to talk about You've got other
podcasts out there. Give a quick promo on where
people can find you. Absolutely. So that conversation
with Aaron Dunn is available as a full interview
right now on Hardcore and At Ease. If you're
an avid podcast listener, that's Hardcore and
At Ease. You can also look up my name, Shelly
Rood, R -O -O -D, and you will find lots of audio
that you can listen to with my horrible squeaky
voice. But our interviews look for two things
in leadership. We look for somebody who is hardcore,
so they're intensely dedicated. You're going
to find stories with pro golfers. You're going
to find stories with military chaplains and anybody
who is living this hardcore lifestyle, but they
also have to have an element of being at ease,
which means that they have to have one foot firmly
planted in what they're doing, but they have
to have an air about them that says to the world,
I am fully confident and I am at ease in my path.
So hardcore and at ease is where you can get
the full interviews And I'm looking forward to
taking portions of those talks and bringing them
to our listeners here at Veterans Radio Thank
you so very much Sherry for being on our program
today I'm really excited to talk to you again
and have you back on the program. I would be
very remiss if I didn't remind you that The Detroit,
the arsenal of democracy is inviting all living
Medal of Honor recipients to Detroit on September
30th through October 3rd. The city of Detroit
has a distinct honor of hosting the 2026 Congressional
Medal of Honor Society Convention. The annual
celebration brings the largest gathering of our
nation's 61 living Medal of Honor recipients
together for a series of public and private events
concluding with a black tie. highly anticipated
Patriots Award Gala on Saturday, October 3rd,
2026 at Huntington Place. The convention is one
of our country's most prestigious and patriotic
events. Recipients and their families will come
together to share and promote the values of the
Medal of Honor, courage, sacrifice, integrity,
commitment, patriotism, and citizenship through
various events. Their heroic stories will be
shared with local students, veterans, active
duty military, and the metropolitan Detroit community.
Former mayor of Detroit, Mike Duggan says, we
are honored to have these distinguished guests
in our city for the convention in 2026. Whenever
America has called, we have dedicated significant
resources to building the tools necessary to
protect our country. By selecting Detroit as
a 2026 host city, we can once again serve and
we are thankful for the opportunity. The Medal
of Honor is awarded by the President as the nation's
highest recognition for military valor in action.
Since its inception in 1861 by President Abraham
Lincoln, only 3 ,526 service members have received
the Medal of Honor and only 61 living recipients
today. In fact, one living recipient resides
in Michigan, U .S. Private First Class James
McLuhan. So mark your calendars. The Congressional
Medal of Honor Society Convention is coming to
Detroit September 30th through October 3rd. For
more information, go to medalofhonoredetroit
.com. I want to thank you all for listening today
and thank everybody that supports Veterans Radio
and all of us here that work at Veterans Radio.
So until next week, this is Dale Thromberry.
For all of us, you are dismissed. God bless America
Land that I love Stand beside her and guide her
Through the night with a light from above From
the mountains to the prairies To the oceans,
white with foam God bless America, my home sweet
home God bless America, my home