WEBVTT 00:00:04.750 --> 00:00:08.589 All across America and around the world, this 00:00:08.589 --> 00:00:15.650 is Veterans Radio. This is Veterans Radio. And 00:00:15.650 --> 00:00:19.670 now, your host for today's program, Dale Throneberry. 00:00:21.630 --> 00:00:24.449 And welcome to veterans radio, my name is Dale 00:00:24.449 --> 00:00:27.530 Throneberry a cw2 helicopter pilot in Vietnam 00:00:27.530 --> 00:00:31.050 1969 and welcome to today's program. I'm really 00:00:31.050 --> 00:00:33.750 excited to have you here We're going to be introducing 00:00:33.750 --> 00:00:37.490 a new contributor to our program and I'll be 00:00:37.490 --> 00:00:40.280 introducing her in just a moment But before we 00:00:40.280 --> 00:00:42.979 get into that, we are going to thank our sponsors 00:00:42.979 --> 00:00:45.100 because we can't do this program without our 00:00:45.100 --> 00:00:48.380 sponsors. And so here we go. Now we want to make 00:00:48.380 --> 00:00:50.560 sure we thank Legal Help for Veterans. Legal 00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:53.740 Help for Veterans specializes in veteran disability 00:00:53.740 --> 00:00:58.479 claims. Give Legal Help a call at 800 -693 -4800 00:00:58.479 --> 00:01:01.859 or go to their website LegalHelpForVeterans .com. 00:01:02.270 --> 00:01:04.650 The National Veterans Business Development Council, 00:01:04.849 --> 00:01:07.609 better known as NVBDC, is the nation's leading 00:01:07.609 --> 00:01:10.569 third -party authority for certification of veteran 00:01:10.569 --> 00:01:13.069 -owned businesses. For more information, go to 00:01:13.069 --> 00:01:16.650 their website, NVBDC .org, or give them a call 00:01:16.650 --> 00:01:22.129 at 888 - 237 -8433. And of course we want to 00:01:22.129 --> 00:01:24.489 thank the Irwin Prescott American Legion Post 00:01:24.489 --> 00:01:27.569 46 and the Charles S. Kettles Vietnam Veterans 00:01:27.569 --> 00:01:30.569 of America Chapter 310 both of Ann Arbor, Michigan. 00:01:31.090 --> 00:01:33.989 If you'd like to support Veterans Radio, please 00:01:33.989 --> 00:01:36.650 go to our website veteransradio .org and click 00:01:36.650 --> 00:01:39.849 on the donate button. Thank you in advance. Okay, 00:01:39.909 --> 00:01:42.549 now for today's program. So joining me on the 00:01:42.549 --> 00:01:45.230 air right now is a good friend for quite a while, 00:01:45.230 --> 00:01:47.790 actually. We didn't know that she was into podcasting 00:01:47.790 --> 00:01:49.590 and everything, and now we've discovered this. 00:01:50.090 --> 00:01:53.390 So I want to introduce to the world Shelly Rood. 00:01:53.450 --> 00:01:56.230 Shelly is a former United States Army Reserve 00:01:56.230 --> 00:01:59.069 captain. She's a broadcast television executive, 00:01:59.189 --> 00:02:02.400 host of Hardcore and At Ease. does a whole lot 00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:04.280 of things to help veterans, but she's also the 00:02:04.280 --> 00:02:06.459 creator of Others Over Self, which is kind of 00:02:06.459 --> 00:02:09.020 really cool. I'll have her describe that to you. 00:02:09.300 --> 00:02:12.599 But so here we go. So here's our new friend, 00:02:12.919 --> 00:02:15.400 Shelly Rood. Shelly, welcome to Veterans Radio. 00:02:16.039 --> 00:02:18.139 Dale, it's super good to be here today. Thank 00:02:18.139 --> 00:02:20.219 you for the honor of standing up next to you 00:02:20.219 --> 00:02:22.659 and co -hosting. Well, it's going to be fun, 00:02:22.659 --> 00:02:26.699 I think. I'm excited to work with you and utilize 00:02:26.699 --> 00:02:28.960 your connections with the different people that 00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:31.139 you're talking to, especially in the veterans 00:02:31.139 --> 00:02:34.520 community, to let our audience know that there 00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:36.419 is help and there's assistance out there for 00:02:36.419 --> 00:02:39.159 them and tell a few stories here and there and 00:02:39.159 --> 00:02:43.020 go from there. So tell me your background. What 00:02:43.020 --> 00:02:44.819 did you do when you were in the military? How 00:02:44.819 --> 00:02:47.849 did you get into the military? Well, I'm the 00:02:47.849 --> 00:02:51.169 person that knew too much. I served in the reserves 00:02:51.169 --> 00:02:55.889 for over a 16 -year period of time, and I was 00:02:55.889 --> 00:02:59.710 military intel. And as a military intelligence 00:02:59.710 --> 00:03:02.469 person, you do get to learn a lot of the nation's 00:03:02.469 --> 00:03:05.780 secrets. You also are entrusted with a lot of 00:03:05.780 --> 00:03:08.099 the heaviness that can come with being a service 00:03:08.099 --> 00:03:11.879 member. And after a decade plus of that work, 00:03:11.900 --> 00:03:14.520 there was a call in my heart to become a chaplain 00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:16.979 and to serve the soldiers on a different level. 00:03:17.300 --> 00:03:20.659 So just as I was following my desire and my call 00:03:20.659 --> 00:03:23.300 to chaplaincy, I was actually discharged for 00:03:23.300 --> 00:03:26.939 a medical reason. And my military career ended. 00:03:27.039 --> 00:03:29.340 I didn't want it to end, but like so many of 00:03:29.340 --> 00:03:32.969 us, sometimes we find ourselves faced with with 00:03:32.969 --> 00:03:36.909 a dead end in front of us and so I've quite simply 00:03:36.909 --> 00:03:40.030 continued my work as a civilian to lean into 00:03:40.030 --> 00:03:42.590 the hearts of veterans whatever and however I 00:03:42.590 --> 00:03:46.009 can and that's taken us from work to running 00:03:46.009 --> 00:03:48.889 health and wellness retreats to focusing on peer 00:03:48.889 --> 00:03:52.530 support specifically for military women and really 00:03:52.530 --> 00:03:55.449 just teaching our veterans how to share their 00:03:55.449 --> 00:03:59.110 own stories how to reframe some of the experiences 00:03:59.110 --> 00:04:02.580 that we've lived how to take So much of the life 00:04:02.580 --> 00:04:04.759 that has been part of our own stories and make 00:04:04.759 --> 00:04:06.919 it something that we're comfortable with And 00:04:06.919 --> 00:04:09.360 something that sits in a good place inside of 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:13.520 us So i'm interested to see How our audience 00:04:13.520 --> 00:04:18.379 here at veterans radio? Can can learn their own 00:04:18.379 --> 00:04:21.699 version of storytelling and go deeper into the 00:04:21.699 --> 00:04:24.720 20 Well almost 25 years now you've been on the 00:04:24.720 --> 00:04:29.100 air. Yeah, that's hard to believe I think we've 00:04:29.100 --> 00:04:32.170 done a little over 1100 Full -length programs 00:04:32.170 --> 00:04:36.509 and I think we're up to 500 podcasts now Absolutely 00:04:36.509 --> 00:04:39.350 incredible and even in my time I've been a listener 00:04:39.350 --> 00:04:42.470 for years now and it's amazing that there's no 00:04:42.470 --> 00:04:44.769 shortage of stories in the veterans community 00:04:44.769 --> 00:04:47.529 I think no, no there are there's never a shortage 00:04:47.529 --> 00:04:50.129 of stories and we you know, we love being able 00:04:50.129 --> 00:04:53.709 to talk to the veterans of all generations and 00:04:53.709 --> 00:04:57.300 you know, unfortunately, we're kind of gone through 00:04:57.300 --> 00:05:00.439 with the World War II veterans, Korea is starting 00:05:00.439 --> 00:05:03.240 to fade away, Vietnam veterans even are, you 00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:06.399 know, we're losing them at a rapid pace. even 00:05:06.399 --> 00:05:08.759 today and I'm anxious to you know start moving 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:11.879 into the uh what we call or I call the younger 00:05:11.879 --> 00:05:15.540 generation which would be yours and to start 00:05:15.540 --> 00:05:18.399 including them more and more in our stories and 00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:21.279 getting them to to talk to the world and letting 00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:23.560 people know what their experiences were like 00:05:23.560 --> 00:05:25.879 and as you mentioned what you're trying to do 00:05:25.879 --> 00:05:29.139 is to help them kind of get over that hump and 00:05:29.139 --> 00:05:33.089 you know assimilate back into quote, civilian 00:05:33.089 --> 00:05:35.189 society, because sometimes that's a pretty difficult 00:05:35.189 --> 00:05:37.709 thing to do. It is. And you know what, Dale? 00:05:37.750 --> 00:05:40.110 I'll take that compliment as a younger veteran, 00:05:40.350 --> 00:05:43.129 because at the age of 42, I do not feel young 00:05:43.129 --> 00:05:45.470 most mornings. But it's good to hear that I'm 00:05:45.470 --> 00:05:49.170 still part of that. Well, I tell you, you know, 00:05:49.370 --> 00:05:56.350 at 70, whatever it is now, that's young. So tell 00:05:56.350 --> 00:05:59.970 me, you know, Well, when we were discussing the 00:05:59.970 --> 00:06:02.430 idea of you coming on and helping us with some 00:06:02.430 --> 00:06:04.930 programming, tell us what kind of things that 00:06:04.930 --> 00:06:07.529 you would do and maybe who you were going to 00:06:07.529 --> 00:06:10.920 talk about today. Well, like you said, we do 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:13.779 have a flood of different veterans, you know, 00:06:13.819 --> 00:06:16.180 you're coining them the younger ones, but I am 00:06:16.180 --> 00:06:19.079 part of the 911 generation. That was the reason 00:06:19.079 --> 00:06:21.839 why I raised my hand and joined. And so a lot 00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:26.220 of the OIF, OEF stories are now coming out and 00:06:26.220 --> 00:06:30.060 being told. And so there is a need and a desire 00:06:30.060 --> 00:06:33.060 for this next wave of veterans to have and learn 00:06:33.060 --> 00:06:35.660 how to tell their stories and use their own voices. 00:06:36.220 --> 00:06:40.600 And so today in particular, I would like to share 00:06:40.600 --> 00:06:45.100 with you a Parts of an interview that we have 00:06:45.100 --> 00:06:49.259 done with a woman named Erin done And she is 00:06:49.259 --> 00:06:52.120 an Air Force veteran and if you've ever made 00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:54.980 a life decision Based on somebody being really 00:06:54.980 --> 00:06:57.519 good -looking then you're gonna love the next 00:06:57.519 --> 00:07:01.839 few minutes of her interview I'm So happy to 00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:04.360 be here as a co -host on veterans radio and this 00:07:04.360 --> 00:07:07.420 conversation is With somebody that I think a 00:07:07.420 --> 00:07:09.379 lot of the veterans radio audience is going to 00:07:09.379 --> 00:07:12.180 recognize immediately Because the path that she 00:07:12.180 --> 00:07:15.360 has taken is one that a lot of us have walked 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:18.540 So Erin Dunn joined the Air Force right out of 00:07:18.540 --> 00:07:21.259 high school. She's here in southeastern, Michigan 00:07:21.259 --> 00:07:24.000 College was not on the table for her. The family 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:27.519 didn't have a military background and full disclosure 00:07:27.519 --> 00:07:30.279 a very persuasive recruiter showed up at the 00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:33.399 right moment for her. And so what started as 00:07:33.399 --> 00:07:36.120 a leap of faith actually turned into 10 years 00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:38.959 of active duty, six of them in public affairs, 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:41.420 four of them as a special agent with the Air 00:07:41.420 --> 00:07:44.839 Force Office of Special Investigations. So think 00:07:44.839 --> 00:07:48.879 NCIS, the Air Force version. And so this is the 00:07:48.879 --> 00:07:51.540 first portion of my conversation with Aaron Dunn. 00:07:52.220 --> 00:07:54.660 Okay, so why don't we play that right now. And 00:07:54.660 --> 00:07:57.319 we all know it's coming up as Aaron Dunn and 00:07:57.319 --> 00:08:01.420 Shelley Rood. So here we go. College wasn't an 00:08:01.420 --> 00:08:03.860 option for me when I graduated from high school. 00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:10.759 I live in the Tri -County area in southeastern 00:08:10.759 --> 00:08:15.019 Michigan where going to work for one of the big 00:08:15.019 --> 00:08:18.519 three automakers was kind of the thing to do, 00:08:18.740 --> 00:08:21.480 at least in my family, and I couldn't see myself 00:08:21.480 --> 00:08:25.779 doing it. So I just decided that maybe the military 00:08:25.779 --> 00:08:29.040 was a good option. And it was a good option. 00:08:30.100 --> 00:08:32.860 And which branch did you end up joining? I joined 00:08:32.860 --> 00:08:35.279 the Air Force and I stayed on active duty for 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:40.000 10 years. Was there a rhyme or reason for the 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:42.419 Air Force as opposed to the other branches? Like, 00:08:42.600 --> 00:08:46.419 you know, I want to be a Marine. Yeah, my Air 00:08:46.419 --> 00:08:48.559 Force recruiter was really cute and I fell head 00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:54.019 over heels in luck with it. I originally was 00:08:54.019 --> 00:08:56.860 going to join the Navy and then an Air Force 00:08:56.860 --> 00:08:58.820 recruiter came to my school and I went and listened 00:08:58.820 --> 00:09:03.029 to him and I went home with stars in my eyes. 00:09:04.210 --> 00:09:06.490 All right. And did those stars carry you through 00:09:06.490 --> 00:09:09.809 for the next 10 years? Yeah, pretty much. Well, 00:09:09.809 --> 00:09:13.490 no, not really. But then it became my own personal 00:09:13.490 --> 00:09:19.129 grit, gumption, on getting me through. I love 00:09:19.129 --> 00:09:24.230 that. So what did you do in the Air Force? Well, 00:09:24.389 --> 00:09:27.549 the first six years, I was in public affairs. 00:09:28.210 --> 00:09:32.590 So I was into... journalism and community relations 00:09:32.590 --> 00:09:40.029 and base tours and special events and for my 00:09:40.029 --> 00:09:43.129 last four years out of the ten I was a special 00:09:43.129 --> 00:09:45.909 agent with the Air Force Office of Special Investigations. 00:09:47.429 --> 00:09:50.509 A special agent with the Air Force Office of 00:09:50.509 --> 00:09:52.509 Special Investigations. What does that mean other 00:09:52.509 --> 00:09:56.429 than you're super special? It's kind of like 00:09:56.429 --> 00:09:59.070 for anybody who watches the NCIS shows, I was 00:09:59.070 --> 00:10:04.009 the Air Force equivalent to the NCIS agent. Very 00:10:04.009 --> 00:10:08.450 cool. Now, that seems like you would have to 00:10:08.450 --> 00:10:10.210 be trained or you would have to have some type 00:10:10.210 --> 00:10:13.909 of specialty background to get into that. The 00:10:13.909 --> 00:10:16.250 different branches of the service all have different 00:10:16.250 --> 00:10:19.529 requirements. For instance, with NCIS, so the 00:10:19.529 --> 00:10:21.210 Naval Criminal Investigative Service, they're 00:10:21.210 --> 00:10:26.539 all civilians. Air Force is... Officer, civilians, 00:10:26.779 --> 00:10:30.759 and enlisted army is, I believe, all warrant 00:10:30.759 --> 00:10:35.139 officers, so I applied for, it's a special duty 00:10:35.139 --> 00:10:37.320 in the Air Force, and I applied for it, and I 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:43.419 got it, but ironically, my public affairs skills 00:10:43.419 --> 00:10:48.019 translated directly into special investigations, 00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:51.639 because most of what we did was interview people, 00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:57.350 take notes, right up. My public affairs skills 00:10:57.350 --> 00:11:01.809 were valuable, crucial to being successful at 00:11:01.809 --> 00:11:04.429 being a special agent. I know that you did go 00:11:04.429 --> 00:11:06.929 into the military and you went in at a young 00:11:06.929 --> 00:11:09.830 age right out of high school, right? But you 00:11:09.830 --> 00:11:12.269 weren't military for your entire life, especially 00:11:12.269 --> 00:11:14.129 even now you're affiliated with the military. 00:11:14.169 --> 00:11:16.950 It's not like you're some 25 -year retiree. So 00:11:16.950 --> 00:11:18.710 tell us about what that journey looked like, 00:11:18.789 --> 00:11:22.049 will you? You know, most of my career has been 00:11:22.049 --> 00:11:25.169 with the military since I got out of the military. 00:11:25.470 --> 00:11:29.029 All but about seven or eight years of it. And 00:11:29.029 --> 00:11:33.429 so right now I work for the Army. I never really 00:11:33.429 --> 00:11:37.570 stopped serving. It's not that I had a huge desire 00:11:37.570 --> 00:11:41.269 to stay with the government or work for the military. 00:11:42.029 --> 00:11:44.450 With the military, there are a lot of veterans 00:11:44.450 --> 00:11:48.870 and there is a certain comfort level. in working 00:11:48.870 --> 00:11:53.370 with a lot of veterans. And so I just sort of 00:11:53.370 --> 00:11:57.909 naturally gravitated toward it because they expect 00:11:57.909 --> 00:12:02.870 the same type of self -discipline, not quite 00:12:02.870 --> 00:12:06.549 the same demands, but the same type of bearing 00:12:06.549 --> 00:12:10.669 as what one would find on active duty. And I 00:12:10.669 --> 00:12:13.950 have that, I earned that while I was in the service. 00:12:13.970 --> 00:12:21.149 And so it just became natural fit. So do you 00:12:21.149 --> 00:12:25.669 think that people would look for that as a positive 00:12:25.669 --> 00:12:28.009 of why they want to work with you or do you think 00:12:28.009 --> 00:12:32.269 that you are attracted to places and people that 00:12:32.269 --> 00:12:36.070 celebrate that? Yeah it is a little bit of both. 00:12:36.289 --> 00:12:40.950 There is a mindset for women veterans know this 00:12:40.950 --> 00:12:44.149 there's a mindset to serving in the military. 00:12:44.559 --> 00:12:47.759 When that mindset gets formed at such a young 00:12:47.759 --> 00:12:54.080 and impressionable age, it's comforting to stay 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:59.639 within it, particularly when I had very little 00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:03.360 exposure to the military growing up. My stepfather 00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:06.919 was a retired military, but he was retired by 00:13:06.919 --> 00:13:10.960 the time he became my stepfather. So it's a mindset 00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:14.139 that you learn, it's like no other. It's like 00:13:14.139 --> 00:13:17.279 no other. You're very true. I want to know more 00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:22.620 about your call to be a lawyer and how law school 00:13:22.620 --> 00:13:27.320 entered your life. So I say that I'm a lawyer, 00:13:27.320 --> 00:13:31.080 but I'm not a licensed attorney. So I don't have 00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:35.019 a law practice. When I was in high school, two 00:13:35.019 --> 00:13:38.139 of the things that always appealed to me was 00:13:38.139 --> 00:13:43.340 one, maybe becoming a lawyer and two, or becoming 00:13:43.340 --> 00:13:47.299 a journalist. And luckily I was able to eventually 00:13:47.299 --> 00:13:52.000 do both things, but because college wasn't really 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:55.039 an option for me and I joined the Air Force instead, 00:13:55.720 --> 00:13:57.940 I couldn't, there was no path for me to just 00:13:57.940 --> 00:14:00.799 go to law school. And that happened much later 00:14:00.799 --> 00:14:04.740 in life. It was really by accident. I discovered 00:14:04.740 --> 00:14:09.100 this online program, got some information about 00:14:09.100 --> 00:14:12.120 it and ultimately enrolled in law school. By 00:14:12.120 --> 00:14:14.500 that time, I had gotten my bachelor's degree 00:14:14.500 --> 00:14:18.019 while I was on active duty. Then I got my master's 00:14:18.019 --> 00:14:22.059 degree. And I just really wanted to know more 00:14:22.059 --> 00:14:24.419 about this program, then I realized this was 00:14:24.419 --> 00:14:27.039 a way for me to get that law degree that I had 00:14:27.039 --> 00:14:31.440 always wanted. There was nothing standing in 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:34.740 my way to do it. It was an online program, though. 00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:39.220 I was a single mom at the time. So... Erin, that 00:14:39.220 --> 00:14:41.139 sounds like there's a few things standing in 00:14:41.139 --> 00:14:46.500 your way. Meaning I can do this program and still 00:14:46.500 --> 00:14:52.440 be a mom and go online when I needed to. So it 00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:55.860 was really tailored for working adults and there 00:14:55.860 --> 00:14:58.840 were a lot of single parents and doctors actually 00:14:58.840 --> 00:15:02.620 that were in the class. By that time, so that 00:15:02.620 --> 00:15:06.429 was 2007 when I started. By that time, I was 00:15:06.429 --> 00:15:08.669 well established in a career. So I didn't really 00:15:08.669 --> 00:15:11.549 have a desire to just completely change careers. 00:15:11.669 --> 00:15:13.690 Getting the law degree at that point was more 00:15:13.690 --> 00:15:18.250 or less a bucket list item. So here you are with 00:15:18.250 --> 00:15:22.149 your military service. You've gotten your bachelor's 00:15:22.149 --> 00:15:24.850 degree. You've gotten your master's degree. Why 00:15:24.850 --> 00:15:28.570 did you feel this need to continue your higher 00:15:28.570 --> 00:15:34.250 education? Well, It wasn't a need to continue 00:15:34.250 --> 00:15:38.389 the higher education as it was a need to learn 00:15:38.389 --> 00:15:43.250 the field of law. I just really wanted to. And 00:15:43.250 --> 00:15:46.529 there was no reason not to pursue it. I just 00:15:46.529 --> 00:15:49.490 felt like I would be really fulfilled having 00:15:49.490 --> 00:15:52.509 a law degree and learning the law. And it paid 00:15:52.509 --> 00:15:55.669 off. I mean, I was very happy learning the law. 00:15:56.279 --> 00:15:59.059 And tell me how you were able to incorporate 00:15:59.059 --> 00:16:02.039 that into your job or your career or because 00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:04.059 you said that you weren't looking for a shift. 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:07.820 So how do you incorporate the law into what you're 00:16:07.820 --> 00:16:11.159 already doing? In my day to day work, there are 00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:12.960 a lot of things. At the time that I finished 00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:17.580 the degree, I was a geopolitical planner or more 00:16:17.580 --> 00:16:19.460 or less a foreign policy advisor with the joint 00:16:19.460 --> 00:16:22.879 staff in Virginia. Being able to understand international 00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:28.879 policy and military law and a whole host of issues, 00:16:29.100 --> 00:16:33.720 cyber law, cyber warfare, are things that I was 00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:37.000 able to contribute to because I had the law degree. 00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:41.580 I was able to discern what international and 00:16:41.580 --> 00:16:45.059 national policies were to help the joint staff 00:16:45.059 --> 00:16:48.580 and their four -star staffs understand the geopolitical 00:16:48.580 --> 00:16:52.320 ramifications of contingency operations. Can 00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:54.539 you for those of us out here that don't speak 00:16:54.539 --> 00:16:59.000 army or military or Air Force give us an example 00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:02.340 of what that means? One of the things that I 00:17:02.340 --> 00:17:06.940 did is I traveled I was on a team That traveled 00:17:06.940 --> 00:17:09.599 all over the world to teach for start generals 00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:14.660 and their staffs the implications the diplomatic 00:17:14.660 --> 00:17:19.269 implications or worldwide implications of a war 00:17:19.269 --> 00:17:22.869 or a natural disaster or something within the 00:17:22.869 --> 00:17:27.730 area that they were responsible for. And it was 00:17:27.730 --> 00:17:30.509 always a whole of government approach. So we 00:17:30.509 --> 00:17:34.069 worked with a lot of different government agencies, 00:17:35.089 --> 00:17:40.269 including the State Department, to help the military 00:17:40.269 --> 00:17:44.170 understand how their actions affected other government 00:17:44.170 --> 00:17:47.089 agencies and other countries, as well as non 00:17:47.089 --> 00:17:50.430 -governmental. organizations. And I was able 00:17:50.430 --> 00:17:57.809 to help define the policies and impacts. And 00:17:57.809 --> 00:18:01.750 you had your son at this point. I shared custody 00:18:01.750 --> 00:18:04.130 at the time. Hold on son, I gotta go talk to 00:18:04.130 --> 00:18:07.109 this sheik over here. I'll be back next week. 00:18:07.549 --> 00:18:10.029 What in the world was a day in the life like 00:18:10.029 --> 00:18:13.970 for you at that time? Usually when I was doing 00:18:13.970 --> 00:18:17.170 things like that, I was either writing about 00:18:17.170 --> 00:18:19.910 policy if I was home or I was traveling and then 00:18:19.910 --> 00:18:23.910 my son was with his father. But we actually did 00:18:23.910 --> 00:18:26.849 have some moments of, excuse me, son, I have 00:18:26.849 --> 00:18:30.630 an overseas call I have to take. It's so interesting. 00:18:30.829 --> 00:18:33.349 I have a 15 year old son now and I have two younger 00:18:33.349 --> 00:18:36.150 ones. But when you hear about just the careers 00:18:36.150 --> 00:18:38.829 of what other people do and what the other moms 00:18:38.829 --> 00:18:41.390 do particularly, I kind of feel like you and 00:18:41.390 --> 00:18:46.289 I are. on the outside of what a normal mom's 00:18:46.289 --> 00:18:48.950 day -to -day role can look like and has looked 00:18:48.950 --> 00:18:51.349 like. And I think it makes for very interesting 00:18:51.349 --> 00:18:55.589 coffee hours with the other parents. It absolutely 00:18:55.589 --> 00:18:59.190 can. Yeah. I have a picture of my son when he 00:18:59.190 --> 00:19:01.849 was about nine years old in full battle dress 00:19:01.849 --> 00:19:05.910 gear. He put on my body armor and a helmet and 00:19:05.910 --> 00:19:08.809 I got this great picture of him. And that pretty 00:19:08.809 --> 00:19:11.349 much says it all about the life of a single mom. 00:19:11.549 --> 00:19:15.269 in and around the military. Yeah it absolutely 00:19:15.269 --> 00:19:19.029 does. Now tell me about journalists. You wanted 00:19:19.029 --> 00:19:21.950 to be a journalist and I went to college at Western 00:19:21.950 --> 00:19:24.630 Michigan University for journalism and I know 00:19:24.630 --> 00:19:27.410 what drove me to do that. I mean I was raised 00:19:27.410 --> 00:19:31.349 watching Murphy Brown and April O 'Neill from 00:19:31.349 --> 00:19:33.710 the Ninja Turtles was a reporter and so I had 00:19:33.710 --> 00:19:37.309 a lot of these strong advocates for journalism 00:19:37.309 --> 00:19:41.259 that were women. What attracted you, Aaron, to 00:19:41.259 --> 00:19:46.720 want to get into that field? I was good at writing, 00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:51.619 and it was actually my stepfather who suggested 00:19:51.619 --> 00:19:55.819 that maybe I would consider a career as a journalist. 00:19:56.500 --> 00:19:59.740 But once again, college wasn't really an option 00:19:59.740 --> 00:20:03.819 for me, and the military provided that skill, 00:20:04.180 --> 00:20:06.160 the education and training necessary to help 00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:10.759 me make that happen. And how have you seen your 00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:15.279 love for journalism play into all of this diplomatic 00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:19.160 recommendations that you're doing? Writing skills, 00:20:20.420 --> 00:20:26.599 the ability to interpret and translate what the 00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:31.839 bigger picture is. So, journalism for the military 00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:37.160 is... called Public Affairs. And what that means 00:20:37.160 --> 00:20:39.839 is I was a writer for a base newspaper for a 00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:42.880 few different types of assignments that I had. 00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:47.859 And I learned how to write various types of news 00:20:47.859 --> 00:20:51.720 articles, feature articles and full length and 00:20:51.720 --> 00:20:56.180 breaking news. But Because everything bases they 00:20:56.180 --> 00:20:57.940 operate like their own little towns, you know, 00:20:57.940 --> 00:21:00.180 a lot of people don't know if you do have your 00:21:00.180 --> 00:21:03.859 own little base newspaper Yes, you know now everything 00:21:03.859 --> 00:21:06.700 can be digital. Of course Yes, you didn't know 00:21:06.700 --> 00:21:09.299 who the commander was necessarily or who the 00:21:09.299 --> 00:21:11.539 commander's family was So it was up to public 00:21:11.539 --> 00:21:14.839 affairs to send a journalist out to cover the 00:21:14.839 --> 00:21:16.980 story Just like you would do if your town got 00:21:16.980 --> 00:21:19.279 a new mayor and they did a feature article on 00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:21.220 the family So that's the type of stuff that you're 00:21:21.220 --> 00:21:24.339 talking about, right? And then later on in life 00:21:24.339 --> 00:21:27.319 when I was still working for the military and 00:21:27.319 --> 00:21:29.500 I was doing policy and I was doing strategic 00:21:29.500 --> 00:21:32.720 communications but writing was always a skill 00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:39.000 that it was a high level skill that required 00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:43.839 a lot of thinking. Now that high level skill 00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:46.700 that requires a lot of thinking is best done 00:21:46.700 --> 00:21:51.529 in a nice quiet cushy office where nobody will 00:21:51.529 --> 00:21:55.170 bother you. Is that what you operated in, that 00:21:55.170 --> 00:21:57.490 type of environment when you were overseas? Never. 00:21:57.509 --> 00:21:59.390 My first assignment when I was in Florida was 00:21:59.390 --> 00:22:04.410 in McDill Air Force Base in Tampa. And we had, 00:22:05.190 --> 00:22:08.109 it was a huge base and we had F -16s. I think 00:22:08.109 --> 00:22:10.869 the whole six years I was in public affairs on 00:22:10.869 --> 00:22:15.150 active duty, I never had a weekend off. I was 00:22:15.150 --> 00:22:19.279 out and about all day, every day. picking up 00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:22.059 stories, taking photographs, interviewing people, 00:22:22.099 --> 00:22:24.400 and then at night going back and doing the layout 00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:28.039 design for the newspaper, which I still have 00:22:28.039 --> 00:22:32.579 done online as well. It taught me how to interact 00:22:32.579 --> 00:22:37.420 with a whole lot of different kinds of people. 00:22:37.779 --> 00:22:40.000 My second assignment in public affairs was over 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:45.200 in Germany. I was doing it for another culture 00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:48.900 and interacting with people that I mean, I was 00:22:48.900 --> 00:22:50.980 in a place I never dreamed that I could ever 00:22:50.980 --> 00:22:54.740 be in. And so I was doing something that I really 00:22:54.740 --> 00:22:58.039 loved, in a beautiful country, with wonderful 00:22:58.039 --> 00:23:02.440 people. Same with my third assignment. I was 00:23:02.440 --> 00:23:04.819 in Greece, I was on a Greek island, and it was 00:23:04.819 --> 00:23:07.660 really great. But there's a lot of sacrifice 00:23:07.660 --> 00:23:09.859 to that. You go where the news is, and if the 00:23:09.859 --> 00:23:12.079 news happens at seven o 'clock on a Sunday morning, 00:23:12.180 --> 00:23:16.990 then you're up, you know? And doing it, so. And 00:23:16.990 --> 00:23:19.589 so this was during military time or this was 00:23:19.589 --> 00:23:23.369 after military time during yeah during military 00:23:23.369 --> 00:23:31.009 time So then what tell us about that transition 00:23:31.009 --> 00:23:34.069 From okay. I'm gonna get out of the Air Force. 00:23:34.210 --> 00:23:39.279 What's next? How do you make that jump? The only 00:23:39.279 --> 00:23:41.779 real advantage that I had is that when I got 00:23:41.779 --> 00:23:43.960 out of the service, because I had been a special 00:23:43.960 --> 00:23:46.240 agent, I wore civilian clothes for the last four 00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:49.480 years, so I hadn't worn uniforms in four years. 00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:52.640 So I didn't have any problem transitioning that 00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:56.180 way. But I was stationed in Colorado at the time, 00:23:56.180 --> 00:23:58.940 and at the time I had decided to get out, and 00:23:58.940 --> 00:24:00.920 I really loved Colorado, and I wanted to stay 00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:04.039 there a while longer. But I had spent four years 00:24:04.039 --> 00:24:08.190 there in a law enforcement capacity, so... everybody 00:24:08.190 --> 00:24:11.690 that I knew, for the most part, were related 00:24:11.690 --> 00:24:15.750 in some way to law enforcement. The challenge 00:24:15.750 --> 00:24:19.869 that I faced there was that I knew, even though 00:24:19.869 --> 00:24:22.910 I was good at being a special agent, I knew that 00:24:22.910 --> 00:24:26.329 I didn't want to do that my entire career. And 00:24:26.329 --> 00:24:28.769 I really wanted to go back to public affairs 00:24:28.769 --> 00:24:32.490 or public relations. But I didn't have any contacts 00:24:32.490 --> 00:24:35.289 in Colorado because I had never been in public 00:24:35.289 --> 00:24:39.240 affairs. in Colorado. Can you share that? Why 00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:41.200 did you feel like you didn't want to stay as 00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:43.759 a special agent long term? I'm almost getting 00:24:43.759 --> 00:24:47.900 this sense of like a movement from a dark, heavy 00:24:47.900 --> 00:24:50.799 type of daily workload into something that is 00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:52.900 potentially lighter. Am I getting that right? 00:24:53.460 --> 00:24:55.779 Absolutely, you are. I have a pretty, or at least 00:24:55.779 --> 00:24:58.440 I used to, I have a pretty bubbly personality 00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:02.880 and I had some senior people mentor me when I 00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:06.170 was in public affairs who warned me about going 00:25:06.170 --> 00:25:09.450 into OSI as a special agent because they didn't 00:25:09.450 --> 00:25:14.369 think that it would fit my personality very well 00:25:14.369 --> 00:25:17.690 and they were right. Being in that law enforcement 00:25:17.690 --> 00:25:20.369 world is very special, it's very privileged, 00:25:20.450 --> 00:25:23.849 but it is very heavy and there is a certain mentality 00:25:23.849 --> 00:25:27.269 that it takes to continue a career in that. And 00:25:27.269 --> 00:25:32.650 I didn't really have this burning desire to be 00:25:32.650 --> 00:25:35.779 an FBI agent or other kind of law enforcement. 00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:38.859 So after four years of doing it, that was one 00:25:38.859 --> 00:25:41.180 of the reasons why I got out was just because 00:25:41.180 --> 00:25:43.839 I didn't want to be a special agent for the long 00:25:43.839 --> 00:25:46.220 time. But you did have federal agencies trying 00:25:46.220 --> 00:25:48.220 to recruit you as you were coming out of the 00:25:48.220 --> 00:25:53.220 service. I worked routinely with the Federal 00:25:53.220 --> 00:25:56.240 Bureau of Investigation, ATF, Drug Enforcement 00:25:56.240 --> 00:26:01.380 Agency. I worked with a lot of them, and it was 00:26:01.380 --> 00:26:05.140 difficult. for them to find qualified females 00:26:05.140 --> 00:26:08.920 who had a bachelor's degree. My bachelor's degree 00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:12.039 was in criminal justice and so I did have people 00:26:12.039 --> 00:26:15.240 trying to recruit me because they needed females 00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:19.240 and I rejected all of them. I could have done 00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:24.680 that for a sense of safety and security when 00:26:24.680 --> 00:26:26.579 I was getting out and transitioning out of the 00:26:26.579 --> 00:26:29.220 service but I really wanted to go back to public 00:26:29.220 --> 00:26:31.220 affairs because I knew that law enforcement wasn't 00:26:31.220 --> 00:26:34.339 for me. Now, how old was your son at this point? 00:26:35.579 --> 00:26:38.599 Oh, he wasn't born yet. Oh, he wasn't born yet. 00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:41.240 No, he wasn't born yet. I had him much later 00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:44.140 after I got out of the service. Yeah, because, 00:26:44.140 --> 00:26:47.619 I mean, the service is like one small part of 00:26:47.619 --> 00:26:50.430 your life. You have so many incredible... octopus 00:26:50.430 --> 00:26:52.690 tentacles that come out after that. So you're 00:26:52.690 --> 00:26:55.089 done with the service. You know, you're Aaron 00:26:55.089 --> 00:26:57.549 Dunn ready to take on the world. No kids, right? 00:26:57.630 --> 00:27:00.390 I mean, you're ready to go. So you went from 00:27:00.390 --> 00:27:02.410 the military and you're looking for a public 00:27:02.410 --> 00:27:05.589 relations job. Where did you land? I landed at 00:27:05.589 --> 00:27:08.309 a nonprofit in Littleton, Colorado, and it was 00:27:08.309 --> 00:27:12.250 a very low paying job, but it helped me to transition. 00:27:12.450 --> 00:27:14.410 I think I was only in that job for about six 00:27:14.410 --> 00:27:18.089 months. but it helped me to transition out and 00:27:18.089 --> 00:27:23.009 to get my footing as a civilian and learn how 00:27:23.009 --> 00:27:25.250 to maneuver through the world when I don't have 00:27:25.250 --> 00:27:28.130 that military safety net behind me. And then 00:27:28.130 --> 00:27:30.369 what came next? I spent another couple of years 00:27:30.369 --> 00:27:34.569 in Colorado and then eventually I moved to southeastern 00:27:34.569 --> 00:27:38.359 Virginia, sort of the Virginia Beach area. and 00:27:38.359 --> 00:27:41.000 landed a really good job with the Virginia Department 00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:42.920 of Transportation. And I stayed with them for 00:27:42.920 --> 00:27:46.279 about five years before I migrated back to working 00:27:46.279 --> 00:27:49.039 for the military. That was the first part. That 00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:51.779 was amazing. This is great. And I'm anxious for 00:27:51.779 --> 00:27:54.400 our audience to listen to the second half of 00:27:54.400 --> 00:27:56.940 the interview. So what are we going to be going 00:27:56.940 --> 00:28:00.720 into for the next 15 minutes or so? Well, so 00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:03.140 in part one, Erin took us through her Air Force 00:28:03.140 --> 00:28:05.319 path. And the next segment is where it really 00:28:05.319 --> 00:28:08.819 gets personal. She did deploy to Iraq as a government 00:28:08.819 --> 00:28:11.859 civilian. She was a single mom still in law school. 00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:15.160 She's taking online classes at 3 AM and running 00:28:15.160 --> 00:28:18.119 to a bunker when indirect fire is coming in. 00:28:18.140 --> 00:28:20.160 And then she gets back on and just picks up where 00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:22.799 the class left off. And what she brought home 00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:25.299 from that deployment, it wasn't just a completed 00:28:25.299 --> 00:28:28.960 degree. It was something that sounded Harder 00:28:28.960 --> 00:28:32.099 to name it was harder to build from and and she 00:28:32.099 --> 00:28:35.039 really battles the ability to stay functional 00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:38.690 when everything around her seems to be working 00:28:38.690 --> 00:28:41.589 against her. So in the second part of the interview, 00:28:41.589 --> 00:28:44.130 we're going to dig a little bit deeper into her 00:28:44.130 --> 00:28:47.490 talking about post -traumatic stress. But it's 00:28:47.490 --> 00:28:50.309 done in a way that we don't often hear. She doesn't 00:28:50.309 --> 00:28:52.930 talk about this as a diagnosis to manage. She 00:28:52.930 --> 00:28:55.589 talks about it as a terrain that needs to be 00:28:55.589 --> 00:28:58.809 understood. And so what she's figured out from 00:28:58.809 --> 00:29:02.289 operating from her center really will help us 00:29:02.289 --> 00:29:04.650 understand how we can live when we feel like 00:29:04.650 --> 00:29:07.990 the world around us won't. calm down. I know 00:29:07.990 --> 00:29:10.130 this is advice that I need to hear because I 00:29:10.130 --> 00:29:12.470 have a two year old and six year old and a 16 00:29:12.470 --> 00:29:15.170 year old and sometimes my world just doesn't 00:29:15.170 --> 00:29:18.789 want to calm down. Right. OK. So here we go. 00:29:18.849 --> 00:29:20.609 We're going to go right back into the interview 00:29:20.609 --> 00:29:25.009 with Aaron Dunn. In 2010, I had an opportunity 00:29:25.009 --> 00:29:29.849 come across my desk to deploy in a public affairs 00:29:29.849 --> 00:29:32.470 capacity as a government civilian to support 00:29:32.470 --> 00:29:39.799 the troops over in Iraq and I had lost my father, 00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:43.539 who lived with me, and he and I were very close. 00:29:43.980 --> 00:29:47.759 He passed away in late 2009, so when this opportunity 00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:50.519 came across my desk, I was still really floundering. 00:29:50.920 --> 00:29:53.759 I was still a mom and I was still in law school, 00:29:53.779 --> 00:29:57.440 but I just needed something else, something different. 00:29:57.680 --> 00:30:01.799 So I did. I left my son with his father for almost 00:30:01.799 --> 00:30:05.920 a year, and I deployed to Iraq. and experienced 00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:08.700 a lot of the same things that our troops did 00:30:08.700 --> 00:30:11.400 over there. It was a very dangerous scenario. 00:30:12.200 --> 00:30:17.980 But I had an amazing job and I worked with some 00:30:17.980 --> 00:30:21.160 wonderful people, including a lot of single moms 00:30:21.160 --> 00:30:26.299 who voluntarily deployed with their units or 00:30:26.299 --> 00:30:29.519 individually and left their kids behind, too. 00:30:30.500 --> 00:30:34.069 And it was tough. And I asked you the question 00:30:34.069 --> 00:30:37.250 of what is the most hardcore thing that Aaron 00:30:37.250 --> 00:30:40.410 Dunn has ever done. And your answer to me was 00:30:40.410 --> 00:30:45.210 that it was the 2011 deployment where you had 00:30:45.210 --> 00:30:49.390 to leave your child. Yes, that was a big sacrifice. 00:30:49.390 --> 00:30:52.289 And I think that anything hardcore that we do 00:30:52.289 --> 00:30:56.089 involves some sort of risk and some sort of sacrifice. 00:30:56.750 --> 00:30:59.309 But it doesn't necessarily mean it's a permanent 00:30:59.309 --> 00:31:03.190 sacrifice. So it was a very difficult year. It 00:31:03.190 --> 00:31:06.089 was very dangerous and I was still in law school 00:31:06.089 --> 00:31:10.710 online. So I would work really long days, go 00:31:10.710 --> 00:31:13.009 back and catch a couple hours of sleep and then 00:31:13.009 --> 00:31:15.369 set my alarm for about 3 a .m. and log in to 00:31:15.369 --> 00:31:19.109 online classes back in the United States. And 00:31:19.109 --> 00:31:22.230 then sometimes I had to close my computer and 00:31:22.230 --> 00:31:24.710 run to a bunker if we had indirect fire coming 00:31:24.710 --> 00:31:28.900 through. And how do you feel? I can just imagine 00:31:28.900 --> 00:31:31.599 if, because I took online courses as well, and 00:31:31.599 --> 00:31:34.519 I can just imagine somebody just like, hold on, 00:31:34.519 --> 00:31:37.019 I'll be right back. And you're just ducking out. 00:31:37.180 --> 00:31:39.740 That's exactly, you know, I would say, I'm sorry, 00:31:39.900 --> 00:31:41.980 I'll be right back. We have indirect fire. I 00:31:41.980 --> 00:31:45.000 have to go. And I'd go stand in a bunker until 00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:47.079 it was all clear. And then I'd go back and the 00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:49.799 class would still be going on. And that's if 00:31:49.799 --> 00:31:53.319 my wife I worked. and I would just get back on 00:31:53.319 --> 00:31:56.559 and say, okay, you know, I'll as well. So sometimes 00:31:56.559 --> 00:31:59.420 it was really, really scary. Sometimes we had 00:31:59.420 --> 00:32:01.880 actual explosions close to us and sometimes we 00:32:01.880 --> 00:32:04.900 didn't. It was a very intense pace and it made 00:32:04.900 --> 00:32:08.420 me fully appreciate all the wonderful things, 00:32:08.920 --> 00:32:11.599 friends and family that I had back home. Was 00:32:11.599 --> 00:32:14.859 your teacher just like A, A plus every time that 00:32:14.859 --> 00:32:21.730 happened? Erin gets a pass. Yes. Yes. I was able 00:32:21.730 --> 00:32:24.630 to keep in touch with my son while I was gone 00:32:24.630 --> 00:32:27.089 and it was maybe that was one of the most hardcore 00:32:27.089 --> 00:32:31.769 things about what I did because I took a big 00:32:31.769 --> 00:32:35.329 risk with my own personal life going over there 00:32:35.329 --> 00:32:38.150 feeling fairly confident that everything was 00:32:38.150 --> 00:32:41.769 going to be okay but but you didn't have a sense 00:32:41.769 --> 00:32:45.930 of peace during this time never no I didn't have 00:32:45.930 --> 00:32:48.500 a sense of peace Of course, when I went over 00:32:48.500 --> 00:32:50.720 there, it was more or less to help me find my 00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:56.299 footing in a life without my father beside me, 00:32:56.380 --> 00:32:59.440 cheering me on. The peace developed over time. 00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:03.019 The inner peace, there was no peace to be had 00:33:03.019 --> 00:33:05.519 over in Iraq while I was there. What I'm hearing 00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:09.359 you say is that it is possible. It takes time 00:33:09.359 --> 00:33:12.640 and focus and hard work. But it is possible to 00:33:12.640 --> 00:33:16.380 have literal chaos and explosions going on around 00:33:16.380 --> 00:33:22.259 you and be able to feel calm on the inside and 00:33:22.259 --> 00:33:25.319 be able to dedicate your mind and your thoughts 00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:29.200 to what is going to be next and how can I make 00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:33.059 the most of the situation? Is that something 00:33:33.059 --> 00:33:36.180 that you brought home to your child? Hopefully 00:33:36.180 --> 00:33:38.880 what I brought home to my child was without the 00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:44.099 chaos, but yes, and I think That ability to stay 00:33:44.099 --> 00:33:48.599 focused among chaos is something that I got from 00:33:48.599 --> 00:33:52.099 the military and that I really value. It has 00:33:52.099 --> 00:33:55.339 helped me through some really hard times over 00:33:55.339 --> 00:33:58.299 the years, especially like when my father was 00:33:58.299 --> 00:34:02.920 dying or if there was a family emergency or things 00:34:02.920 --> 00:34:04.980 were absolutely crazy at work and then my car 00:34:04.980 --> 00:34:09.389 breaks down. That ability to to keep my focus 00:34:09.389 --> 00:34:11.869 and concentration going on what was in front 00:34:11.869 --> 00:34:15.650 of me versus what was around me, a valuable skill 00:34:15.650 --> 00:34:18.570 that I think the military can really help people 00:34:18.570 --> 00:34:22.030 develop. I think it is too, Erin. And so, you 00:34:22.030 --> 00:34:24.929 know, our podcast is called Hardcore and At Ease, 00:34:25.130 --> 00:34:28.579 and At Ease is a military command. And as you 00:34:28.579 --> 00:34:30.780 know, when you are given the command to be at 00:34:30.780 --> 00:34:34.960 ease, it doesn't mean that you go lay down. When 00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:37.659 you are in the position of at ease, it means 00:34:37.659 --> 00:34:41.260 that you can relax your shoulders and kind of 00:34:41.260 --> 00:34:43.559 shake things out a little bit, but you don't 00:34:43.559 --> 00:34:46.260 lose your focus. You literally do not move your 00:34:46.260 --> 00:34:49.139 feet. You're still stuck in place so that you 00:34:49.139 --> 00:34:52.239 can kind of shake things off. And it is that 00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:56.079 ability to have one foot firmly planted in your 00:34:56.079 --> 00:34:59.780 values and yet still allow your personality and 00:34:59.780 --> 00:35:03.000 your lifestyle to flourish without losing focus 00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:05.400 of that hardcore task at hand. And your hardcore 00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:08.460 task was raising your son. And your hardcore 00:35:08.460 --> 00:35:13.619 task was how can I be the best legal advisor 00:35:13.619 --> 00:35:18.000 possible to these diplomats so that they can 00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:21.860 make these significant and life altering decisions 00:35:21.860 --> 00:35:26.079 in their work? So tell me a little bit about 00:35:26.670 --> 00:35:32.150 What it took for for this shift in how to be 00:35:32.150 --> 00:35:36.949 at ease and Is is there like a moment in time 00:35:36.949 --> 00:35:39.550 or is there just a time in your life where you 00:35:39.550 --> 00:35:46.389 really figured out what your values were I Don't 00:35:46.389 --> 00:35:50.809 think there was one particular time my values 00:35:50.809 --> 00:35:55.800 my personal pursuits And how I feel about myself 00:35:55.800 --> 00:35:59.639 has all happened through interacting with the 00:35:59.639 --> 00:36:04.739 world over the course of a lifetime. But it was 00:36:04.739 --> 00:36:09.400 probably about 10 years ago when I was finishing 00:36:09.400 --> 00:36:11.840 up law school and I had all these friends who 00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:17.400 were taking the bar exam. I was studying for 00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:21.159 the veteran service officer exam. So that's what 00:36:21.159 --> 00:36:24.219 I did right when I finished law school. everyone 00:36:24.219 --> 00:36:25.920 else was studying for the FAR, I was studying 00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:31.199 for this other exam because I had been through 00:36:31.199 --> 00:36:34.559 a little bit with the Veterans Administration 00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:38.079 and applied for benefits and it was always so 00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:42.059 frustrating to me and so I knew that I wanted 00:36:42.059 --> 00:36:46.239 to be able to help Veterans understand their 00:36:46.239 --> 00:36:49.420 benefits with my law degree. Is that what you're 00:36:49.420 --> 00:36:53.239 doing now? Yes, to a certain extent. I cannot 00:36:53.239 --> 00:36:55.940 be a qualified certified veteran service officer 00:36:55.940 --> 00:36:58.579 because I'm a federal employee and it's a conflict 00:36:58.579 --> 00:37:01.480 of interest because veteran service officers 00:37:01.480 --> 00:37:04.559 could potentially argue on behalf of a veteran 00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:07.679 to the federal government. So a federal employee 00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:11.239 cannot potentially argue to the federal government. 00:37:11.960 --> 00:37:16.019 So you're playing both sides. Yes. So, um, but 00:37:16.019 --> 00:37:20.420 I started off a full 10 years ago helping veterans 00:37:20.570 --> 00:37:23.750 who just retired or got out of the service and 00:37:23.750 --> 00:37:27.409 just didn't quite understand. Some of them were 00:37:27.409 --> 00:37:32.449 really suffering and they hadn't either been 00:37:32.449 --> 00:37:35.750 awarded the amount of benefits that they actually 00:37:35.750 --> 00:37:40.050 earned or they hadn't been awarded any benefits 00:37:40.050 --> 00:37:43.289 at all and didn't even know where to begin. So 00:37:43.289 --> 00:37:47.349 I started off just talking to helping them understand 00:37:47.349 --> 00:37:50.329 this is what the VA needs, this is what they're 00:37:50.329 --> 00:37:55.969 looking for, this is how you prove it. You can 00:37:55.969 --> 00:37:58.610 have these conversations with this particular 00:37:58.610 --> 00:38:02.070 demographic because you are one of them. Obviously, 00:38:02.210 --> 00:38:04.090 you have served in the military and so you have 00:38:04.090 --> 00:38:06.030 that side of it, but you also were over there 00:38:06.030 --> 00:38:09.449 as a civilian. and you know what it's like to 00:38:09.449 --> 00:38:12.070 be working on a focused task at two in the morning 00:38:12.070 --> 00:38:15.110 and run out because rocket fire is coming in. 00:38:15.369 --> 00:38:18.090 You know, and so shared with me that you do have 00:38:18.090 --> 00:38:20.929 post -traumatic stress. Yes. And I'm interested 00:38:20.929 --> 00:38:23.530 to know as such a highly accomplished woman and 00:38:23.530 --> 00:38:27.269 as an educated and intellectual mind that you've 00:38:27.269 --> 00:38:30.469 done a lot of studying on the brain and the triggers 00:38:30.469 --> 00:38:32.050 associated with post -traumatic stress. Would 00:38:32.050 --> 00:38:33.730 you like to get into that just a little bit? 00:38:35.389 --> 00:38:38.579 It's interesting because you talk about values. 00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:41.760 One of the things that I have learned to value 00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:47.039 is my own personal mental well -being, and that 00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:52.280 doesn't come easy. For some people like me, I 00:38:52.280 --> 00:38:57.440 spend my days coping, evaluating, minimizing, 00:38:59.699 --> 00:39:03.920 recovering from or apologizing for my reactions 00:39:03.920 --> 00:39:07.670 to PTSD triggers. That is a Those are my daily 00:39:07.670 --> 00:39:11.050 chores. Outside of taking a shower, outside of 00:39:11.050 --> 00:39:13.670 earning a living, I know that I have to do that 00:39:13.670 --> 00:39:21.130 every day. And unfortunately, that is nothing 00:39:21.130 --> 00:39:25.750 that the VA has ever shared with me. I've learned 00:39:25.750 --> 00:39:30.449 so many things about post -traumatic stress disorder 00:39:30.449 --> 00:39:34.190 through navigating my own journey that I think 00:39:34.190 --> 00:39:37.630 I'm a better advocate. for veterans because of 00:39:37.630 --> 00:39:41.469 this. And I've had to fight with the VA for everything 00:39:41.469 --> 00:39:45.349 that I have. It's not just a journey. It's like 00:39:45.349 --> 00:39:49.489 an uphill journey. At times with veteran care, 00:39:49.570 --> 00:39:52.750 what we look at is pushing a boulder up a hill. 00:39:53.840 --> 00:39:56.059 The little wins are just little wins. You've 00:39:56.059 --> 00:39:58.619 still got a long way to go. And Aaron, what I 00:39:58.619 --> 00:40:00.920 love so much about your story is that it's not 00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:03.820 a victim story. You chose to enlist. You chose 00:40:03.820 --> 00:40:07.500 to go overseas. You sought to be deployed. Even 00:40:07.500 --> 00:40:10.099 as a civilian, you volunteered to go back into 00:40:10.099 --> 00:40:12.500 the line of fire. And so I've never gotten this 00:40:12.500 --> 00:40:14.920 sort of like unfair victim mentality from you. 00:40:15.179 --> 00:40:17.760 What I've always been able to appreciate about 00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:22.219 you is the reality of, yes, I'm walking into 00:40:22.219 --> 00:40:25.820 the war zone. And yes, my brain is changed because 00:40:25.820 --> 00:40:29.340 of it. And you are such a great example of somebody 00:40:29.340 --> 00:40:32.320 who is a highly accomplished, highly intellectual 00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:36.699 person who is not denying these issues. You can 00:40:36.699 --> 00:40:40.659 be a beautiful, successful contributor to society 00:40:40.659 --> 00:40:43.780 as a veteran, as somebody living with post -traumatic 00:40:43.780 --> 00:40:46.820 stress. You have to pay attention to it. You 00:40:46.820 --> 00:40:50.300 have to treat it like you would any other medical 00:40:50.300 --> 00:40:53.139 issue. So would you mind kind of peeling back 00:40:53.139 --> 00:40:55.179 those layers a little bit and sharing with me, 00:40:55.460 --> 00:40:56.920 what does that look like, you know, when you 00:40:56.920 --> 00:40:59.699 say that you're planning, avoiding, coping, minimizing 00:40:59.699 --> 00:41:04.000 the PTSD reactions? What do you mean? Well, you 00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:06.340 know, a couple of times now I've spoken to veterans 00:41:06.340 --> 00:41:11.739 groups about PTSD coping skills. And one of the 00:41:11.739 --> 00:41:16.000 things that is always prevalent is the threat 00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:20.239 of being overwhelmed when interacting with the 00:41:20.239 --> 00:41:24.019 world. Most times, I guess I could say, there's 00:41:24.019 --> 00:41:26.860 a direct correlation between sensory overload 00:41:26.860 --> 00:41:33.559 and PTSD triggers. So when I talk about coping, 00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:39.539 minimizing, evaluating, I take active steps to 00:41:39.539 --> 00:41:43.610 determine if I'm going out of my house into society 00:41:43.610 --> 00:41:45.989 for whatever purpose, whether it's going to the 00:41:45.989 --> 00:41:48.110 dentist or going to a grocery store or going 00:41:48.110 --> 00:41:52.969 to my office, I evaluate what are the different 00:41:52.969 --> 00:41:56.510 scenarios that I might encounter that could potentially 00:41:56.510 --> 00:42:00.309 trigger me. And if necessary, take some steps 00:42:00.309 --> 00:42:04.809 to minimize them. Go at a different time. Play 00:42:04.809 --> 00:42:08.750 music while I'm interacting in whatever engagement 00:42:08.750 --> 00:42:11.789 is going on. those are useful recommendations, 00:42:11.909 --> 00:42:15.210 even for those of us that perhaps just struggle 00:42:15.210 --> 00:42:18.409 with the sensory overload in general. The grocery 00:42:18.409 --> 00:42:21.949 store is a really good example where I have a 00:42:21.949 --> 00:42:24.869 hard time, especially if I have to bring my children. 00:42:25.050 --> 00:42:28.469 That is a very, very difficult and challenging 00:42:28.469 --> 00:42:30.909 task. And I'm with you. I've learned that if 00:42:30.909 --> 00:42:34.610 I can put in an earbud and just play a little 00:42:34.610 --> 00:42:38.380 bit of my preferential background music, to calm 00:42:38.380 --> 00:42:41.739 my nerves while I'm doing that task, it does 00:42:41.739 --> 00:42:44.199 feel like a weight is lifted. Do you have any 00:42:44.199 --> 00:42:47.139 other recommendations of these type of coping 00:42:47.139 --> 00:42:49.679 methods that we could use on a regular basis? 00:42:51.099 --> 00:42:54.699 In addition to music, I don't leave home without 00:42:54.699 --> 00:42:57.820 earplugs. And I'm not talking about earbuds, 00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:00.619 but something to actually block out the sound. 00:43:01.280 --> 00:43:03.460 I have prescription glasses and I always make 00:43:03.460 --> 00:43:07.219 sure that they can automatically go into sunglasses 00:43:07.219 --> 00:43:12.699 when I go outside and just it helps to minimize 00:43:12.699 --> 00:43:16.460 some of the senses if I'm in sensory overload. 00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:20.000 I have no problem being in a grocery store and 00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:22.920 sitting on the floor or being anywhere and sitting 00:43:22.920 --> 00:43:25.159 on the floor and I call that intentional grounding. 00:43:25.519 --> 00:43:29.239 It just helps me to reconnect with the things 00:43:29.239 --> 00:43:33.780 around me and block out a little bit of the chaos 00:43:33.780 --> 00:43:36.219 that's going on, especially when you go to a 00:43:36.219 --> 00:43:38.480 grocery store and it's like rush hour and you're 00:43:38.480 --> 00:43:41.099 going right after work or the day before a holiday. 00:43:41.519 --> 00:43:44.860 It can be overwhelming for anybody, much less 00:43:44.860 --> 00:43:49.360 someone with sensory issues. And a lot of times 00:43:49.360 --> 00:43:53.679 people with PTSD do have correlating sensory 00:43:53.679 --> 00:43:56.639 issues. They can get overloaded pretty easily. 00:43:56.980 --> 00:43:59.340 So what I'm hearing you say is it's almost like 00:43:59.340 --> 00:44:05.130 you're taking initiative and steps to gain some 00:44:05.130 --> 00:44:09.090 type of control back over your senses. You can't 00:44:09.090 --> 00:44:11.650 control the sounds in the grocery store, but 00:44:11.650 --> 00:44:14.670 if you put the earplugs in, yes, you can control 00:44:14.670 --> 00:44:17.230 that. You can't control the foot traffic around 00:44:17.230 --> 00:44:20.210 you, but if you sit down, you can control that 00:44:20.210 --> 00:44:24.070 little space. The word control is a key word 00:44:24.070 --> 00:44:26.730 for people who suffer from post -traumatic stress 00:44:26.730 --> 00:44:31.599 because... their brain, the physiological makeup 00:44:31.599 --> 00:44:34.800 of their brain changes in response to trauma. 00:44:35.539 --> 00:44:38.420 And for people with post -traumatic stress, the 00:44:38.420 --> 00:44:41.480 long term, their brain never went back to normal 00:44:41.480 --> 00:44:44.760 after they experienced a traumatic event. So, 00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:48.059 quite literally, there is a lot of things that 00:44:48.059 --> 00:44:51.539 are out of their control. And because of the 00:44:51.539 --> 00:44:56.079 brain changes, they no longer have the ability 00:44:56.079 --> 00:45:05.199 to... step back in their mind and evaluate what's 00:45:05.199 --> 00:45:07.619 going on because they're in a constant fight 00:45:07.619 --> 00:45:11.460 or flight mode. So taking some steps to control 00:45:11.460 --> 00:45:15.480 our own environment can really help us calm down. 00:45:15.659 --> 00:45:18.719 But when it goes back to advocacy for veterans, 00:45:18.940 --> 00:45:23.739 unfortunately, I've spent decades in the VA system 00:45:23.739 --> 00:45:28.679 and none of that was ever addressed by the VA. 00:45:29.099 --> 00:45:32.099 It's stuff that I had to discover entirely on 00:45:32.099 --> 00:45:37.019 my own. I've heard a lot more discussion recently 00:45:37.019 --> 00:45:41.800 about post -traumatic growth as opposed to post 00:45:41.800 --> 00:45:43.820 -traumatic recovery because as you're saying 00:45:43.820 --> 00:45:46.579 recovery in many ways physiologically is not 00:45:46.579 --> 00:45:49.599 an option and can you describe for me what it 00:45:49.599 --> 00:45:52.539 would look like to be somebody who experiences 00:45:52.539 --> 00:45:56.739 post -traumatic growth? One can come How do I 00:45:56.739 --> 00:46:02.780 want to say this? New skills with post -traumatic 00:46:02.780 --> 00:46:07.480 stress, there are things that are in a person 00:46:07.480 --> 00:46:10.039 that are very different, but that also offers 00:46:10.039 --> 00:46:14.139 people an opportunity to learn to maneuver the 00:46:14.139 --> 00:46:18.500 world in a way that they normally wouldn't have. 00:46:18.860 --> 00:46:21.579 And so they can grow from that. They can learn 00:46:21.579 --> 00:46:25.019 new skills. they can go back into their inner 00:46:25.019 --> 00:46:28.440 self almost easier because they know that they 00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:33.559 have changed. Instead of denying the change and 00:46:33.559 --> 00:46:35.940 fighting the change. I think that's one of the 00:46:35.940 --> 00:46:38.599 most difficult things about post -traumatic stress 00:46:38.599 --> 00:46:43.239 is you don't really always know what that change 00:46:43.239 --> 00:46:47.420 is. You're fighting something, but it's not always 00:46:47.420 --> 00:46:51.630 obvious and so... To grow with it, you just have 00:46:51.630 --> 00:46:55.789 to be able to define what it is that's happening 00:46:55.789 --> 00:46:59.869 and allow yourself to feel it. Do you have a 00:46:59.869 --> 00:47:04.130 daily habit that helps you really own this ability 00:47:04.130 --> 00:47:07.070 to stay grounded, to stay at ease with all of 00:47:07.070 --> 00:47:11.269 this chaos around you? I take some time every 00:47:11.269 --> 00:47:16.949 morning. For me, the mornings are when I'm mentally 00:47:16.949 --> 00:47:21.849 clearer. So I allow myself to reflect on the 00:47:21.849 --> 00:47:25.349 day coming up or the day that happened yesterday. 00:47:25.909 --> 00:47:28.829 But also, and that might be an hour and a half, 00:47:28.949 --> 00:47:32.110 I mean, sometimes I will wake up, set an alarm 00:47:32.110 --> 00:47:35.349 much earlier than what I need to get ready for 00:47:35.349 --> 00:47:40.489 work, just so I can have that quiet time to myself 00:47:40.489 --> 00:47:44.619 to think. and feel and reflect most days of the 00:47:44.619 --> 00:47:46.900 week after work. Even if I'm just working at 00:47:46.900 --> 00:47:48.960 home at my kitchen table, I will just sit down 00:47:48.960 --> 00:47:52.360 for about 30 minutes in silence and allow myself 00:47:52.360 --> 00:47:57.139 to focus and feel. When I talk about feel, if 00:47:57.139 --> 00:47:59.940 I'm feeling overwhelmed and I want to cry, then 00:47:59.940 --> 00:48:04.500 I allow myself to cry. And I give myself permission 00:48:04.500 --> 00:48:09.889 to feel bad. Erin, you don't strike me as a woman 00:48:09.889 --> 00:48:11.989 that has cried a whole bunch in her lifetime. 00:48:12.969 --> 00:48:16.150 Did you say you don't strike? Or I don't strike 00:48:16.150 --> 00:48:19.670 you, is that what you said? No, I mean, I feel, 00:48:20.130 --> 00:48:22.010 from what I know about you, I feel like we're 00:48:22.010 --> 00:48:24.769 similar in the fact that, yeah, we can cry, but 00:48:24.769 --> 00:48:27.889 it takes a lot for us to get there. Like a skill 00:48:27.889 --> 00:48:29.849 that you've developed over time, and now you're 00:48:29.849 --> 00:48:32.090 finally at a place in life where you can allow 00:48:32.090 --> 00:48:35.929 yourself to do that. I think my skill was forcing 00:48:35.929 --> 00:48:39.769 myself not to and it caused a lot of damage. 00:48:40.690 --> 00:48:46.650 So now one of my values to myself is that I'm 00:48:46.650 --> 00:48:51.090 not going to do myself any more damage by hiding 00:48:51.090 --> 00:48:53.989 negative emotions because negative emotions don't 00:48:53.989 --> 00:48:57.090 get better with time. There's so much wisdom 00:48:57.090 --> 00:49:00.889 in that statement. Talk to me for a minute about 00:49:00.889 --> 00:49:03.829 advocacy. We are highlighting you in our Women, 00:49:03.949 --> 00:49:06.389 Better, and Strong program because you are a 00:49:06.389 --> 00:49:09.329 woman who really embodies the value of advocacy 00:49:09.329 --> 00:49:13.949 and the ability to speak out on behalf of something. 00:49:14.590 --> 00:49:16.929 Is advocacy something that you learned from other 00:49:16.929 --> 00:49:19.329 people growing up or is it something that you 00:49:19.329 --> 00:49:23.570 saw in the people around you? I didn't see it 00:49:23.570 --> 00:49:29.170 growing up. It was something that I began as 00:49:29.170 --> 00:49:32.539 a teenager. to escape a very chaotic household. 00:49:33.059 --> 00:49:36.960 So at the time, I would have equated advocacy 00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:40.539 with volunteerism. I've always volunteered for 00:49:40.539 --> 00:49:47.320 things and developed my own value of advocacy. 00:49:47.820 --> 00:49:49.980 It's just been within the last 10 years that 00:49:49.980 --> 00:49:53.719 I've really stayed focused on helping veterans 00:49:53.719 --> 00:49:57.960 and helping veterans understand what they are 00:49:57.960 --> 00:50:01.059 entitled to. and how they can go about getting 00:50:01.059 --> 00:50:05.500 it. And so what I'm hearing from you is advocacy 00:50:05.500 --> 00:50:10.599 is a choice that we can make in order to escape 00:50:10.599 --> 00:50:13.199 a current situation or scenario that we're in. 00:50:14.539 --> 00:50:21.079 I simply learned advocacy as a coping mechanism 00:50:21.079 --> 00:50:26.000 when I was younger, but over time, You learn 00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:28.719 your own values and you learn what you're passionate 00:50:28.719 --> 00:50:32.539 about. And that's where the advocacy comes from, 00:50:32.860 --> 00:50:36.320 is being passionate about an issue that not many 00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:39.300 people know how to tackle, but is desperately 00:50:39.300 --> 00:50:42.960 needed. Well, that was really great, Shelley. 00:50:43.340 --> 00:50:46.699 And I greatly appreciate the effort of that recording. 00:50:48.039 --> 00:50:49.820 I'm looking forward to I think it's gonna be 00:50:49.820 --> 00:50:51.860 very exciting having you providing with some 00:50:51.860 --> 00:50:54.099 of these stories and You know, hopefully at some 00:50:54.099 --> 00:50:56.539 point in the future doing the whole program by 00:50:56.539 --> 00:51:00.119 yourself Sort of like a student piloting here, 00:51:00.199 --> 00:51:01.480 you know, and what sooner or later? We're just 00:51:01.480 --> 00:51:03.539 gonna say okay you take off on your own. You're 00:51:03.539 --> 00:51:08.860 going solo here so we are going to end up the 00:51:08.860 --> 00:51:13.599 program now with with Shelly and want to thank 00:51:13.599 --> 00:51:16.019 everybody for listening. Actually, I want to 00:51:16.019 --> 00:51:18.539 actually Shelley to talk about You've got other 00:51:18.539 --> 00:51:21.320 podcasts out there. Give a quick promo on where 00:51:21.320 --> 00:51:24.559 people can find you. Absolutely. So that conversation 00:51:24.559 --> 00:51:28.539 with Aaron Dunn is available as a full interview 00:51:28.539 --> 00:51:31.639 right now on Hardcore and At Ease. If you're 00:51:31.639 --> 00:51:34.099 an avid podcast listener, that's Hardcore and 00:51:34.099 --> 00:51:36.519 At Ease. You can also look up my name, Shelly 00:51:36.519 --> 00:51:40.280 Rood, R -O -O -D, and you will find lots of audio 00:51:40.280 --> 00:51:42.360 that you can listen to with my horrible squeaky 00:51:42.360 --> 00:51:46.719 voice. But our interviews look for two things 00:51:46.719 --> 00:51:49.360 in leadership. We look for somebody who is hardcore, 00:51:49.699 --> 00:51:51.780 so they're intensely dedicated. You're going 00:51:51.780 --> 00:51:53.900 to find stories with pro golfers. You're going 00:51:53.900 --> 00:51:57.239 to find stories with military chaplains and anybody 00:51:57.239 --> 00:51:59.840 who is living this hardcore lifestyle, but they 00:51:59.840 --> 00:52:02.599 also have to have an element of being at ease, 00:52:02.820 --> 00:52:05.579 which means that they have to have one foot firmly 00:52:05.579 --> 00:52:08.280 planted in what they're doing, but they have 00:52:08.280 --> 00:52:10.940 to have an air about them that says to the world, 00:52:11.300 --> 00:52:14.800 I am fully confident and I am at ease in my path. 00:52:15.400 --> 00:52:17.420 So hardcore and at ease is where you can get 00:52:17.420 --> 00:52:20.380 the full interviews And I'm looking forward to 00:52:20.380 --> 00:52:22.539 taking portions of those talks and bringing them 00:52:22.539 --> 00:52:26.239 to our listeners here at Veterans Radio Thank 00:52:26.239 --> 00:52:29.079 you so very much Sherry for being on our program 00:52:29.079 --> 00:52:31.800 today I'm really excited to talk to you again 00:52:31.800 --> 00:52:34.760 and have you back on the program. I would be 00:52:34.760 --> 00:52:37.690 very remiss if I didn't remind you that The Detroit, 00:52:37.869 --> 00:52:40.630 the arsenal of democracy is inviting all living 00:52:40.630 --> 00:52:44.309 Medal of Honor recipients to Detroit on September 00:52:44.309 --> 00:52:47.570 30th through October 3rd. The city of Detroit 00:52:47.570 --> 00:52:51.309 has a distinct honor of hosting the 2026 Congressional 00:52:51.309 --> 00:52:54.989 Medal of Honor Society Convention. The annual 00:52:54.989 --> 00:52:57.150 celebration brings the largest gathering of our 00:52:57.150 --> 00:52:59.489 nation's 61 living Medal of Honor recipients 00:52:59.489 --> 00:53:02.289 together for a series of public and private events 00:53:02.289 --> 00:53:05.340 concluding with a black tie. highly anticipated 00:53:05.340 --> 00:53:08.900 Patriots Award Gala on Saturday, October 3rd, 00:53:09.039 --> 00:53:12.260 2026 at Huntington Place. The convention is one 00:53:12.260 --> 00:53:14.840 of our country's most prestigious and patriotic 00:53:14.840 --> 00:53:17.420 events. Recipients and their families will come 00:53:17.420 --> 00:53:19.659 together to share and promote the values of the 00:53:19.659 --> 00:53:23.039 Medal of Honor, courage, sacrifice, integrity, 00:53:23.380 --> 00:53:26.119 commitment, patriotism, and citizenship through 00:53:26.119 --> 00:53:28.869 various events. Their heroic stories will be 00:53:28.869 --> 00:53:30.949 shared with local students, veterans, active 00:53:30.949 --> 00:53:34.369 duty military, and the metropolitan Detroit community. 00:53:34.809 --> 00:53:38.010 Former mayor of Detroit, Mike Duggan says, we 00:53:38.010 --> 00:53:40.010 are honored to have these distinguished guests 00:53:40.010 --> 00:53:43.769 in our city for the convention in 2026. Whenever 00:53:43.769 --> 00:53:46.570 America has called, we have dedicated significant 00:53:46.570 --> 00:53:49.289 resources to building the tools necessary to 00:53:49.289 --> 00:53:52.230 protect our country. By selecting Detroit as 00:53:52.230 --> 00:53:55.469 a 2026 host city, we can once again serve and 00:53:55.469 --> 00:53:58.329 we are thankful for the opportunity. The Medal 00:53:58.329 --> 00:54:01.170 of Honor is awarded by the President as the nation's 00:54:01.170 --> 00:54:03.769 highest recognition for military valor in action. 00:54:04.409 --> 00:54:08.150 Since its inception in 1861 by President Abraham 00:54:08.150 --> 00:54:12.789 Lincoln, only 3 ,526 service members have received 00:54:12.789 --> 00:54:15.869 the Medal of Honor and only 61 living recipients 00:54:15.869 --> 00:54:18.800 today. In fact, one living recipient resides 00:54:18.800 --> 00:54:21.300 in Michigan, U .S. Private First Class James 00:54:21.300 --> 00:54:24.400 McLuhan. So mark your calendars. The Congressional 00:54:24.400 --> 00:54:26.639 Medal of Honor Society Convention is coming to 00:54:26.639 --> 00:54:29.780 Detroit September 30th through October 3rd. For 00:54:29.780 --> 00:54:32.079 more information, go to medalofhonoredetroit 00:54:32.079 --> 00:54:35.099 .com. I want to thank you all for listening today 00:54:35.099 --> 00:54:37.559 and thank everybody that supports Veterans Radio 00:54:37.559 --> 00:54:39.519 and all of us here that work at Veterans Radio. 00:54:39.860 --> 00:54:42.059 So until next week, this is Dale Thromberry. 00:54:42.079 --> 00:54:55.260 For all of us, you are dismissed. God bless America 00:54:55.260 --> 00:55:07.619 Land that I love Stand beside her and guide her 00:55:07.619 --> 00:55:13.920 Through the night with a light from above From 00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:21.719 the mountains to the prairies To the oceans, 00:55:22.480 --> 00:55:34.420 white with foam God bless America, my home sweet 00:55:34.420 --> 00:55:44.000 home God bless America, my home