WEBVTT 00:00:04.830 --> 00:00:08.630 All across America and around the world, this 00:00:08.630 --> 00:00:14.990 is Veterans Radio. This is Veterans Radio. And 00:00:14.990 --> 00:00:19.050 now, your host for today's program, Dale Throneberry. 00:00:21.469 --> 00:00:24.050 Hey, welcome to Veterans Radio. My name is Dale 00:00:24.050 --> 00:00:27.129 Throneberry as our CW2 helicopter pilot in Vietnam, 00:00:27.210 --> 00:00:30.530 1969. Welcome to our program. We're going to 00:00:30.530 --> 00:00:32.409 be talking about a lot of good things today. 00:00:32.829 --> 00:00:35.979 We're going to be talking books. about Vietnam. 00:00:36.079 --> 00:00:38.100 We're going to be talking books about Vietnam 00:00:38.100 --> 00:00:40.899 helicopter pilots so it's kind of a rotorhead 00:00:40.899 --> 00:00:43.719 radio today a little bit. We're going to be talking 00:00:43.719 --> 00:00:45.899 with Phil Marshall who has written 21 books of 00:00:45.899 --> 00:00:50.079 his own about helicopter rescues in Vietnam and 00:00:50.079 --> 00:00:52.600 we're also going to be talking with Sam Andrews 00:00:52.600 --> 00:00:55.299 who is a board member of an organization called 00:00:55.299 --> 00:00:59.159 Bravo Zulu which is a retreat for veterans in 00:00:59.159 --> 00:01:00.859 Minnesota and we're going to get a little bit 00:01:00.859 --> 00:01:03.780 more into detail about that in just a minute. 00:01:04.040 --> 00:01:07.359 but I gotta before we do that I gotta thank our 00:01:07.359 --> 00:01:09.640 sponsors of course because here on veterans radio 00:01:09.640 --> 00:01:12.700 we can't do this radio for adult without our 00:01:12.700 --> 00:01:14.680 sponsors so I want to make sure that we thank 00:01:14.680 --> 00:01:17.319 them number one on our list is legal help for 00:01:17.319 --> 00:01:20.079 veterans and legal help for veterans specializes 00:01:20.079 --> 00:01:22.799 in veterans disability claims call legal help 00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:27.319 for veterans at 800 -693 -4800 or go to their 00:01:27.319 --> 00:01:31.590 website legalhelpforveterans .com. The National 00:01:31.590 --> 00:01:33.769 Veterans Business Development Council, better 00:01:33.769 --> 00:01:37.269 known as NVBDC, is the nation's leading third 00:01:37.269 --> 00:01:39.450 -party authority for certification of veteran 00:01:39.450 --> 00:01:41.849 -owned businesses. For more information, go to 00:01:41.849 --> 00:01:45.469 their website. That's nvbdc .org or give them 00:01:45.469 --> 00:01:50.230 a call at 888 -237 -8433. Remember, if you want 00:01:50.230 --> 00:01:51.969 to do business with the federal government and 00:01:51.969 --> 00:01:54.689 you claim to be a small, a veteran -owned small 00:01:54.689 --> 00:01:57.430 business, you got to get certified. And these 00:01:57.430 --> 00:01:59.709 are the folks that can help you do that. That's 00:01:59.709 --> 00:02:04.530 mvbdc .org. I'd also like to thank our local 00:02:04.530 --> 00:02:08.189 American Legion Post 46, Erwin Prescorn, Post 00:02:08.189 --> 00:02:10.949 46 here in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and the Charles 00:02:10.949 --> 00:02:13.389 S. Kettles Vietnam Veterans of America Chapter 00:02:13.389 --> 00:02:16.669 310, also of Ann Arbor, Michigan. If you'd like 00:02:16.669 --> 00:02:20.370 to support Veterans Radio, feel free. Go to veteransradio 00:02:20.370 --> 00:02:23.349 .org, click on the donate button, and you can 00:02:23.349 --> 00:02:27.610 see we've been doing this now for 23 years, holy 00:02:27.610 --> 00:02:31.310 mackerel. And almost all of our programs are 00:02:31.310 --> 00:02:34.210 on our website. You can go there and check into 00:02:34.210 --> 00:02:36.990 the archives and find some programs. I'm discovering 00:02:36.990 --> 00:02:41.469 these things that I haven't done in years and 00:02:41.469 --> 00:02:44.710 years. I found the one the other day, 2005, which 00:02:44.710 --> 00:02:46.469 is kind of cool. We're starting to post some 00:02:46.469 --> 00:02:49.409 excerpts of some of those programs on our Facebook 00:02:49.409 --> 00:02:51.969 page. So you might want to check that out. It's 00:02:51.969 --> 00:02:54.009 kind of interesting that people that we've had 00:02:54.009 --> 00:02:56.229 the privilege and opportunity to talk to over 00:02:56.229 --> 00:02:59.590 the years. So let's get right into the crew here 00:02:59.590 --> 00:03:05.629 with the program. My first guest today is Sam 00:03:05.629 --> 00:03:09.169 Andrews. And Sam is a retired US Army Lieutenant 00:03:09.169 --> 00:03:12.729 Colonel, 25 years of distinguished service. Oh, 00:03:13.030 --> 00:03:15.129 25 years. I made it three years, seven months, 00:03:15.169 --> 00:03:19.800 and two days. But who counted? um anyway began 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:22.599 his service 1995 as an infantry squad leader 00:03:22.599 --> 00:03:26.099 with the united states marine corps commissioned 00:03:26.099 --> 00:03:30.340 in the michigan michigan minnesota army national 00:03:30.340 --> 00:03:33.580 guard as a distinguished military graduate through 00:03:33.580 --> 00:03:37.659 minnesota rotc program i held a range of strategic 00:03:37.659 --> 00:03:39.960 and operational leadership roles the two -meter 00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:42.939 company commander battalion brigade staff officer 00:03:42.939 --> 00:03:46.659 s3 Wow, you did a lot of stuff here. But the 00:03:46.659 --> 00:03:48.759 reason that I'm bringing Sam onto the program 00:03:48.759 --> 00:03:50.840 is that he's a board member for an organization 00:03:50.840 --> 00:03:55.060 called Bravo Zulu House. So Sam Andrews, welcome 00:03:55.060 --> 00:03:57.599 to Veterans Radio. Hi, Dale. Thanks for having 00:03:57.599 --> 00:04:00.240 me. I appreciate it. Well, we appreciate this. 00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:04.080 I came across your organization really by chance. 00:04:04.219 --> 00:04:06.139 It was something that was on a Facebook page. 00:04:06.620 --> 00:04:09.719 And I said, What is this? This is kind of cool. 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:12.599 I mean, last week we did a program on a couple 00:04:12.599 --> 00:04:15.340 of organizations that have been supporting veterans, 00:04:15.659 --> 00:04:18.040 and this just seemed like a logical extension 00:04:18.040 --> 00:04:21.120 of that program. So I reached out to you and 00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:23.060 your organization, and luckily we were able to 00:04:23.060 --> 00:04:25.800 get this connection. So tell me what you can 00:04:25.800 --> 00:04:28.579 about Bravo Zulu House. It's kind of an unusual 00:04:28.579 --> 00:04:31.920 retreat. Well, I wouldn't call it a retreat. 00:04:32.379 --> 00:04:37.230 What it technically is is a sober house. So Bravo 00:04:37.230 --> 00:04:41.610 Zulu in naval vernacular means good job or job 00:04:41.610 --> 00:04:45.569 well done. And so the flag officer of the fleet 00:04:45.569 --> 00:04:50.050 post exercise or engagement would raise the flags, 00:04:50.050 --> 00:04:55.129 Bravo and Zulu to signal job well done. And so 00:04:55.129 --> 00:04:58.889 Bravo Zulu House is a sober home for veterans 00:04:58.889 --> 00:05:02.930 with PTSD. It's the only sober home in the nation 00:05:02.930 --> 00:05:07.730 for veterans with PTSD. So despite the VA spending 00:05:07.730 --> 00:05:13.009 $571 million a year specifically on veterans 00:05:13.009 --> 00:05:17.470 mental health care, the rates of suicide in the 00:05:17.470 --> 00:05:20.889 veteran community went up from 17 to 17 and a 00:05:20.889 --> 00:05:24.149 half this this last year during this last reporting 00:05:24.149 --> 00:05:27.790 period. So what does that mean? Well, It means 00:05:27.790 --> 00:05:30.730 that we've got a problem with our clinical order 00:05:30.730 --> 00:05:33.850 of operations for the veterans that are served 00:05:33.850 --> 00:05:36.569 by the VA and at the larger community. Let me 00:05:36.569 --> 00:05:39.129 break that down for you in terms of some pretty 00:05:39.129 --> 00:05:43.610 grim statistics. 30 ,000 veterans a month exit 00:05:43.610 --> 00:05:47.949 one of the 15 ,000 inpatient treatment programs. 00:05:47.970 --> 00:05:50.610 So that's roughly two veterans per inpatient 00:05:50.610 --> 00:05:58.079 treatment program every single month. 30 ,000 00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:02.300 every single month. There is one location for 00:06:02.300 --> 00:06:05.420 them to transition into similar to a skilled 00:06:05.420 --> 00:06:11.779 nursing facility from a continuity of care perspective 00:06:11.779 --> 00:06:14.500 before they transition to independent living. 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:18.199 Now it takes about 18 months for the brain plasticity 00:06:18.199 --> 00:06:24.620 to change once a guy gets sober and 18 months 00:06:24.620 --> 00:06:29.579 for someone to learn new skill sets and new activities 00:06:29.579 --> 00:06:33.620 that will help them in their recovery journey. 00:06:33.740 --> 00:06:36.160 And so that's where Bravo Zulu fits. Inpatient 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:38.639 treatment center, independent living, somewhere 00:06:38.639 --> 00:06:43.980 between 12 and 18 months. And those veterans, 00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:50.279 those veterans that transitioned to us have a 00:06:50.279 --> 00:06:53.810 whole menu of programs available to them. What 00:06:53.810 --> 00:06:56.470 we are first and foremost is a sober home. We 00:06:56.470 --> 00:06:58.750 have a case manager that works with each one 00:06:58.750 --> 00:07:01.550 of our veterans and within 48 hours we get them 00:07:01.550 --> 00:07:03.870 connected to the Mayo Clinic and we do two things 00:07:03.870 --> 00:07:07.529 there. We get them to an intensive outpatient 00:07:07.529 --> 00:07:10.470 treatment and PTSD assessment and then we connect 00:07:10.470 --> 00:07:13.529 them with primary care because not only are our 00:07:13.529 --> 00:07:15.750 guys suffering from PTSD they're dealing with 00:07:15.750 --> 00:07:18.329 pretty other significant issues like pain management 00:07:18.329 --> 00:07:23.120 and sleep and so in order for actual treatment 00:07:23.120 --> 00:07:27.120 to work, PTSD treatment to work, guys have to 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:29.860 first and foremost be sober. And then second, 00:07:30.500 --> 00:07:33.220 need to be able to both manage pain and manage 00:07:33.220 --> 00:07:37.959 sleep because those two things combined can really 00:07:37.959 --> 00:07:43.000 create a pretty challenging environment for one, 00:07:43.300 --> 00:07:47.980 both mentally and physically. Within the first 00:07:47.980 --> 00:07:50.180 48 hours, we get them scheduled for that assessment. 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:54.040 We get them connected with PCP. And then a couple 00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:57.600 days later, they're in -processed into the Mayo 00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:00.180 Clinic for that assessment. And then 10 days 00:08:00.180 --> 00:08:02.720 following that assessment, those guys get pipelined 00:08:02.720 --> 00:08:07.939 right into both IOP and PTSD therapy. And then 00:08:07.939 --> 00:08:10.639 they meet with their PCP and they're able to 00:08:10.639 --> 00:08:14.639 connect them with the right specialists and subspecialists 00:08:14.639 --> 00:08:18.420 to work on both sleep and pain. That's the gap 00:08:18.420 --> 00:08:21.019 in healthcare that we fit. In addition to that, 00:08:21.879 --> 00:08:27.040 you know, it's a 13 bedroom, barn dominium or 00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:29.579 schaust or slab on grade home where the guys 00:08:29.579 --> 00:08:33.279 live. They each have their own room. They're 00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:37.019 also connected to the local AA groups. They get 00:08:37.019 --> 00:08:38.919 a sponsor. They're connected with a spiritual 00:08:38.919 --> 00:08:43.080 coach. And as we progress here, we'll offer, 00:08:43.179 --> 00:08:47.559 we have the facility for canine therapy. a fully 00:08:47.559 --> 00:08:51.340 climate control kennel for 13 dogs where guys 00:08:51.340 --> 00:08:58.460 can rescue a dog and then grow with them as a 00:08:58.460 --> 00:09:03.039 canine companion. So we offer arguably an incredibly 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:06.960 important, we close an incredibly important gap 00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:10.100 in veterans healthcare between inpatient treatment 00:09:10.100 --> 00:09:13.279 and independent living. And the final note of 00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:18.409 that is, you know, community, dignity, peer support 00:09:18.409 --> 00:09:22.210 and then employment. So all our guys are welcome 00:09:22.210 --> 00:09:27.370 with open arms with the local community and will 00:09:27.370 --> 00:09:29.830 work 30 hours a week somewhere in the community 00:09:29.830 --> 00:09:33.330 or volunteer in some instances for guys that 00:09:33.330 --> 00:09:37.250 aren't either capable of working or financially 00:09:37.250 --> 00:09:39.789 in a place where they can just work. Now, Dale, 00:09:39.809 --> 00:09:42.940 I got a million dollar question. Okay. How much 00:09:42.940 --> 00:09:45.779 does it cost to live at the Bravo Zoo the house 00:09:45.779 --> 00:09:48.779 with all of those services? I'm thinking it's 00:09:48.779 --> 00:09:53.879 going to be free It's $600 a month to pay for 00:09:53.879 --> 00:09:58.600 your room That's not bad No reasonable correct. 00:09:58.820 --> 00:10:03.759 So part of that whole dignified living peer support 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:06.639 surrounded by guys with similar experiences is 00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:10.129 that it's important that you start to rebuild 00:10:10.129 --> 00:10:13.210 sort of responsible behavior. So we charge a 00:10:13.210 --> 00:10:15.210 very, what I would argue, insignificant amount 00:10:15.210 --> 00:10:20.169 of money to live in an incredible location surrounded 00:10:20.169 --> 00:10:23.149 by your peers, supported by a case manager, and 00:10:23.149 --> 00:10:26.330 then receive arguably world -class health care 00:10:26.330 --> 00:10:30.830 from, you know, arguably one of the best medical 00:10:30.830 --> 00:10:33.870 institutions in the country. Well, I mean, that's 00:10:33.870 --> 00:10:35.870 certainly true. If you're connected with a Mayo 00:10:35.870 --> 00:10:37.950 Clinic, I think most of us have heard of that. 00:10:38.039 --> 00:10:42.440 and so we're talking here with Sam Andrews he's 00:10:42.440 --> 00:10:45.460 on the board of Bravo Zulu house which is in 00:10:45.460 --> 00:10:48.899 Minnesota and is this something where is this 00:10:48.899 --> 00:10:53.320 only for Minnesotians or is it if somebody who's 00:10:53.320 --> 00:10:56.159 listening to our program right now were to contact 00:10:56.159 --> 00:10:59.379 you and they lived in you know wherever Nebraska 00:10:59.379 --> 00:11:01.799 is that something that where they could get help 00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:05.179 from you? Dale we are accepting applications 00:11:05.179 --> 00:11:10.200 from around the country so I'll just kind of 00:11:10.200 --> 00:11:12.220 lay out the qualifications, veteran, male by 00:11:12.220 --> 00:11:18.620 birth. We don't strictly adhere to the federal 00:11:18.620 --> 00:11:20.940 definition of veterans. So there may be some 00:11:20.940 --> 00:11:24.460 guardsmen or reservists that don't quote unquote 00:11:24.460 --> 00:11:29.639 qualify from a service perspective, right? But 00:11:29.639 --> 00:11:32.919 the current group of residents of all, they're 00:11:32.919 --> 00:11:38.649 all combat deployment guys. Who've served federally 00:11:38.649 --> 00:11:43.730 so easy easy sort of thing so male by birth be 00:11:43.730 --> 00:11:47.730 a veteran? complete an inpatient treatment program 00:11:47.730 --> 00:11:53.289 and Be willing to you know comply with the programs 00:11:53.289 --> 00:11:57.850 that the Bravo Zulu house has in order to You 00:11:57.850 --> 00:12:00.970 know track your recovery progress I'm just thinking 00:12:00.970 --> 00:12:02.789 here you you mentioned a six hundred dollars 00:12:02.789 --> 00:12:05.850 a month, which is to somebody who's not working, 00:12:05.970 --> 00:12:08.450 it's a lot of money, but obviously you're going 00:12:08.450 --> 00:12:12.210 to help them out. When they go to, who pays for 00:12:12.210 --> 00:12:14.889 the Mayo Clinic and so forth? That is a great 00:12:14.889 --> 00:12:19.029 question. So, you know, once upon a time I went 00:12:19.029 --> 00:12:21.789 to the Carlson School of Management here in the 00:12:21.789 --> 00:12:23.850 great state of Minnesota and earned an MBA as 00:12:23.850 --> 00:12:27.230 I exited service. And so we talk about things 00:12:27.230 --> 00:12:30.250 like build, buy, or partner. Well, we built a 00:12:30.250 --> 00:12:32.929 sober home. and we partner with experts and our 00:12:32.929 --> 00:12:37.090 experts also include payers um payers meaning 00:12:37.090 --> 00:12:40.250 insurance providers and in many cases our men 00:12:40.250 --> 00:12:42.289 are eligible for what's called minnesota care 00:12:42.289 --> 00:12:46.490 now you could be from alaska north carolina or 00:12:46.490 --> 00:12:49.750 virginia and part of what our case manager does 00:12:49.750 --> 00:12:53.049 during onboarding is determine whether or not 00:12:53.049 --> 00:12:56.389 you have a payer. And if not, we go down to the 00:12:56.389 --> 00:12:58.870 Fairmont County office and we sign our guys up 00:12:58.870 --> 00:13:01.230 for Minnesota Care, which is the Medicaid program, 00:13:01.250 --> 00:13:03.990 the federal Medicaid program that's administered 00:13:03.990 --> 00:13:07.649 by the state of Minnesota and Mayo accepts them 00:13:07.649 --> 00:13:11.730 as a payer. And so their continuation of care, 00:13:11.830 --> 00:13:14.990 their health care is covered by Minnesota Care 00:13:14.990 --> 00:13:19.029 as they receive treatment through the Mayo Health 00:13:19.029 --> 00:13:23.149 System. Well, that answers a lot of great questions. 00:13:23.210 --> 00:13:26.149 So you can handle what you mentioned 17 at a 00:13:26.149 --> 00:13:30.909 time. 13, 13. Yep. And so our expansion plan, 00:13:31.009 --> 00:13:36.250 we're in the process of raising money for the 00:13:36.250 --> 00:13:39.750 first America's first all female veterans sober 00:13:39.750 --> 00:13:43.190 home for women veterans with PTSD in Mankato. 00:13:43.230 --> 00:13:46.539 So that'll be 10 bedrooms. And then as we proof 00:13:46.539 --> 00:13:50.019 out our model from an efficacy perspective, through 00:13:50.019 --> 00:13:52.159 a study with the University of Minnesota and 00:13:52.159 --> 00:13:55.840 the VA, we hope to launch two of these in every 00:13:55.840 --> 00:13:58.860 state across the country. Because arguably the 00:13:58.860 --> 00:14:03.059 need is greater than just 13, considering 30 00:14:03.059 --> 00:14:07.480 ,000 a month. Wow, this is great. So tell me 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:10.860 again, if I need to get in there, where do I 00:14:10.860 --> 00:14:14.029 go to find out how I can do this? Yep, two things 00:14:14.029 --> 00:14:18.629 www .bravozuluhouse .org and you'll see apply 00:14:18.629 --> 00:14:22.990 here. Now, Dale, I'm not an expert at much anything 00:14:22.990 --> 00:14:24.769 and I certainly didn't stay in a Holiday Inn 00:14:24.769 --> 00:14:28.309 Express last night. But if you click on that 00:14:28.309 --> 00:14:30.509 button and fill out the application and it takes 00:14:30.509 --> 00:14:32.629 you more than five minutes, I would be shocked. 00:14:34.330 --> 00:14:38.610 So fill out an application. Our case manager, 00:14:38.809 --> 00:14:43.039 Mark, will call you, email you. within a couple 00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:45.299 of hours and then they'll have a conversation 00:14:45.299 --> 00:14:48.799 about where you're at in your recovery journey 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:54.419 and make an offer to that veteran to move to 00:14:54.419 --> 00:14:57.139 the Bravo Zulu House. And where is the Bravo 00:14:57.139 --> 00:15:00.220 Zulu House? The Bravo Zulu House is about two 00:15:00.220 --> 00:15:03.100 hours south of the Minneapolis -St. Paul Airport 00:15:03.100 --> 00:15:08.419 or about 40 minutes south of Mankato, Minnesota 00:15:08.419 --> 00:15:12.559 in a town called Winnebago. triangulated kind 00:15:12.559 --> 00:15:16.419 of Winnebago, Fairmont, Minnesota area. I -90 00:15:16.419 --> 00:15:20.679 and 169. Okay, Winnebago. I think I've heard 00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:25.220 that name before. Probably, probably in the Canberra. 00:15:25.299 --> 00:15:27.659 Dale, maybe someday we could jump into Winnebago 00:15:27.659 --> 00:15:31.360 and go for a tour, but there's actually a city 00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:33.980 named Winnebago. Yeah, that's great. All right. 00:15:34.039 --> 00:15:37.059 Well, thank you. Sam Andrews, a board member 00:15:37.059 --> 00:15:40.820 for Bravo Zulu House. This is a great organization 00:15:40.820 --> 00:15:43.240 it's it's you know i'm reading off of their flyer 00:15:43.240 --> 00:15:45.320 here it's america's first sober living house 00:15:45.320 --> 00:15:48.399 focus exclusively on veterans with post -traumatic 00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:52.039 stress uh i greatly appreciate the work that 00:15:52.039 --> 00:15:54.700 you are doing i wish you the best of luck and 00:15:54.700 --> 00:15:57.580 people just throw money at this organization 00:15:57.580 --> 00:16:00.639 i think this is a great idea and you've got you 00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:02.379 know you're taking care of men right now and 00:16:02.379 --> 00:16:06.570 the idea of building a shelter or same type of 00:16:06.570 --> 00:16:09.330 facility for women is great. We can never forget 00:16:09.330 --> 00:16:11.009 our women veterans. There are so many of them 00:16:11.009 --> 00:16:14.289 out there that I think have been feeling a little 00:16:14.289 --> 00:16:16.269 neglected here. So we got to make sure we take 00:16:16.269 --> 00:16:20.149 care of them as well. So, Dale, as I get ready 00:16:20.149 --> 00:16:23.029 to sign off and say thank you for the opportunity 00:16:23.029 --> 00:16:29.350 to talk to your residents, a Greek poet, about 00:16:29.350 --> 00:16:36.100 486 BCE, said something to the effect of, it's 00:16:36.100 --> 00:16:39.100 not how a nation sends its men off to war, but 00:16:39.100 --> 00:16:44.539 it's how they are welcomed home. And from my 00:16:44.539 --> 00:16:47.419 generation to yours, because you didn't get the 00:16:47.419 --> 00:16:50.299 welcome that we did, thank you and welcome home. 00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:54.320 Those are the best words we get to hear almost 00:16:54.320 --> 00:16:56.659 every day now when people find out that we've 00:16:56.659 --> 00:17:00.179 served in the Vietnam era. It's so much better 00:17:00.179 --> 00:17:02.759 than, you know, thank you for your service. It's 00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:05.539 welcome home. and thank you sam also for your 00:17:05.539 --> 00:17:08.619 service thank you what you're doing with bravo 00:17:08.619 --> 00:17:11.259 zulu house i can't wait to hear more about it 00:17:11.259 --> 00:17:13.220 all right gentlemen thank you have a great day 00:17:13.220 --> 00:17:17.559 we will thank you very much welcome home here 00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:21.759 we are all righty uh so that was bravo zulu house 00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:24.220 and that that sounds like a really great organization 00:17:24.220 --> 00:17:27.619 i'm i'm anxious to follow them along we are going 00:17:27.619 --> 00:17:31.480 to play our medal of honor segment here because 00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:34.920 and don't be surprised it's about a Vietnam helicopter 00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:39.920 pilot and when we come back we've got our guest 00:17:39.920 --> 00:17:44.180 who is Phil Marshall and Phil is a also a Vietnam 00:17:44.180 --> 00:17:46.859 helicopter pilot he was a medevac pilot in Vietnam 00:17:46.859 --> 00:17:53.700 he's also a very writer very excellent writer 00:17:53.700 --> 00:17:58.039 21 books about rescues that medevac pilots and 00:17:58.039 --> 00:18:00.700 regular pilots did in Vietnam, so we're anxious 00:18:00.700 --> 00:18:03.359 to talk with Phil. So hey, listen, if you want 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:05.339 to get in on the conversation before I forget, 00:18:05.859 --> 00:18:07.779 you can give us a call here if you're listening 00:18:07.779 --> 00:18:14.119 live, and that number is 734 -822 -1600. 734 00:18:14.119 --> 00:18:17.779 -822 -1600. We'll be right back. This is the 00:18:17.779 --> 00:18:21.640 Medal of Honor segment for today's program. The 00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:23.700 Medal of Honor is the highest award for valor 00:18:23.700 --> 00:18:25.880 in combat given a member of the Armed Forces 00:18:25.880 --> 00:18:28.180 of the United States. There have been over 3 00:18:28.180 --> 00:18:31.220 ,400 recipients of the nation's highest award. 00:18:31.900 --> 00:18:34.559 This is one of them. War Officer Frederick Ferguson 00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:37.339 led a four -ship helicopter formation into a 00:18:37.339 --> 00:18:40.400 South Vietnamese Army compound under heavy fire. 00:18:40.779 --> 00:18:45.819 Details after this. If you have a VA claim denied 00:18:45.819 --> 00:18:48.019 by the Board of Veterans' Appeals, contact Legal 00:18:48.019 --> 00:18:52.680 Help for Veterans at 1 -800 -693. 4800. They're 00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:54.759 experts in handling cases before the U .S. Court 00:18:54.759 --> 00:18:56.779 of Appeals for Veterans Claims. Their number 00:18:56.779 --> 00:19:01.579 again, 1 -800 -693 -4800. After completing a 00:19:01.579 --> 00:19:03.759 hitch on the Navy, Ferguson got his commercial 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:06.339 pilot's license and then joined the army to fly 00:19:06.339 --> 00:19:09.500 helicopters. Two weeks after graduating from 00:19:09.500 --> 00:19:12.519 helicopter school, he was in Vietnam. On January 00:19:12.519 --> 00:19:16.299 31, 1968, Ferguson heard that a first cavalry 00:19:16.299 --> 00:19:18.930 helicopter had gone down in Hue, and another 00:19:18.930 --> 00:19:21.690 had been badly shot up trying to rescue them. 00:19:22.250 --> 00:19:24.650 Ferguson and his crew agreed to go get them. 00:19:25.450 --> 00:19:27.910 While refueling, he asked three Huey gunships 00:19:27.910 --> 00:19:31.369 if they wanted to accompany him. They did. The 00:19:31.369 --> 00:19:33.269 GIs in the compound reported they were under 00:19:33.269 --> 00:19:37.009 heavy fire. Ferguson circled until the fire abated, 00:19:37.269 --> 00:19:39.369 then began a low -level high -speed run into 00:19:39.369 --> 00:19:42.390 the compound. He descended blindly in a dust 00:19:42.390 --> 00:19:44.930 storm from his rotors. When he touched down, 00:19:45.099 --> 00:19:47.880 he saw there was only one foot clearance on each 00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:51.319 side of his blades. The GIs jumped aboard and 00:19:51.319 --> 00:19:54.079 Ferguson pulled up. A mortar shell exploded under 00:19:54.079 --> 00:19:57.759 his aircraft, spinning at 180 degrees. One of 00:19:57.759 --> 00:20:00.180 the Hueys was shot down and the crew rescued. 00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:02.960 The other two were so badly shot up by the time 00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:05.559 they landed, they were no longer able to fly. 00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:08.559 Ferguson received his Medal of Honor from President 00:20:08.559 --> 00:20:13.670 Nixon on May 17, 1969. The Medal of Honor series 00:20:13.670 --> 00:20:17.329 is a production of Veterans Radio. Military veterans 00:20:17.329 --> 00:20:19.769 touch everyone's life. I'm guessing right now 00:20:19.769 --> 00:20:22.269 you're thinking of a veteran, a close friend, 00:20:22.789 --> 00:20:25.930 relative. Maybe it's you. Even the toughest of 00:20:25.930 --> 00:20:28.490 us sometimes need help but don't know where to 00:20:28.490 --> 00:20:30.869 turn for support. You don't need special training 00:20:30.869 --> 00:20:33.150 to help a veteran in your life. We can all help 00:20:33.150 --> 00:20:35.369 someone going through a difficult time. Learn 00:20:35.369 --> 00:20:38.910 how you can be there for veterans. Visit veteranscrisisline 00:20:38.910 --> 00:20:43.039 .net. Veteranscrisisline .net. A message from 00:20:43.039 --> 00:21:13.400 the U .S. Department of Veterans Affairs. 451 00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:16.059 stories in those books. So I think that's kind 00:21:16.059 --> 00:21:18.960 of cool. So Phil, welcome back to Veterans Radio. 00:21:19.420 --> 00:21:21.079 Thank you, Dan. It's always been a pleasure. 00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:23.220 Well, it's good to talk to you. And you know, 00:21:23.299 --> 00:21:25.539 when we were I was thinking about doing this 00:21:25.539 --> 00:21:29.119 program on gathering some of the books on on 00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:31.339 Vietnam, and it was only because I was watching 00:21:31.339 --> 00:21:35.720 a quiz show the other night and somebody asked 00:21:35.720 --> 00:21:38.660 one of the questions was about Vietnam. or the 00:21:38.660 --> 00:21:40.819 mute was about a song or something like that 00:21:40.819 --> 00:21:44.619 and the person who was much younger didn't identify 00:21:44.619 --> 00:21:47.180 it couldn't figure it out and I'm going Uh -oh. 00:21:47.339 --> 00:21:49.920 You know, we are now at that phase in our lives 00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:53.000 where the World War II veterans were. Yeah. And, 00:21:53.220 --> 00:21:54.980 you know, we've got to let people know that we're 00:21:54.980 --> 00:21:57.940 still out there doing things, and you are obviously 00:21:57.940 --> 00:21:59.779 doing things. So I thought today we could talk 00:21:59.779 --> 00:22:03.019 about some of the books that we've both enjoyed 00:22:03.019 --> 00:22:06.619 reading about the Vietnam War and not all helicopter 00:22:06.619 --> 00:22:09.380 stories. I mean, as much as, you know, Rotorhead 00:22:09.380 --> 00:22:14.079 Radio is all about helicopters, we do read other 00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:18.710 things. Other than that, so let's kind of start 00:22:18.710 --> 00:22:21.849 this off. What books would you recommend to somebody 00:22:21.849 --> 00:22:25.289 who doesn't really know anything about what happened 00:22:25.289 --> 00:22:29.730 over there? Matt Jackson, which is not his real 00:22:29.730 --> 00:22:34.470 name, it's his pen name, has done a series of 00:22:34.470 --> 00:22:39.309 undaunted Ballard books. And what he's done is 00:22:39.309 --> 00:22:43.269 a series of three books. What he's done is taken 00:22:43.269 --> 00:22:49.089 real stories and changed the names and made it 00:22:49.089 --> 00:22:53.890 into an entire series. And even though it's fictional 00:22:53.890 --> 00:22:56.369 characters, they're all based on real people. 00:22:56.890 --> 00:22:59.490 Real stories, real missions. I've recognized 00:22:59.490 --> 00:23:03.250 more than one mission. And his third book has 00:23:03.250 --> 00:23:08.599 been just on Lamson 719. which really, really, 00:23:08.599 --> 00:23:11.420 really expressed how difficult things were for 00:23:11.420 --> 00:23:16.480 us as Army aviators going into... Well, I have 00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:19.400 a cousin who was a pilot during that incursion, 00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:22.619 and his comment to me later was, when we went 00:23:22.619 --> 00:23:25.519 out every day, we didn't guess, are we going 00:23:25.519 --> 00:23:28.240 to take any rounds today? It's how many rounds 00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:31.380 are we going to take today? They got shot up 00:23:31.380 --> 00:23:33.400 virtually every time they went out, and this 00:23:33.400 --> 00:23:36.539 went on for almost two months. So Matt has done 00:23:36.539 --> 00:23:39.980 an excellent job of putting these stories together 00:23:39.980 --> 00:23:43.519 into one character who's doing all of these things. 00:23:43.819 --> 00:23:46.000 But again, I recognize some of the missions. 00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:49.119 I've had the privilege of reviewing his books. 00:23:49.299 --> 00:23:51.680 A couple of them I had already read, so that 00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:54.960 was kind of an easy one there. But then also 00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:58.160 Rex Gooch has done an excellent job. He did two 00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:02.880 books on Ace Casalito. who was the first lieutenant, 00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:06.160 loge pilot, and a little bit of everything. But 00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:11.740 he really kind of started the Cav Hat experience, 00:24:11.740 --> 00:24:15.279 I guess we're gonna call it. The third book that 00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:18.500 Rex has done is just on the Cav Hat. And I mean, 00:24:18.579 --> 00:24:21.240 besides Dr. Zeus, who would have thought you 00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:24.680 could have done a book about a hat? but Rex did 00:24:24.680 --> 00:24:27.019 an excellent job with it. And the thing that 00:24:27.019 --> 00:24:29.500 I really liked about the book, he has a lot of 00:24:29.500 --> 00:24:31.940 photos in it, not that I don't read, but a lot 00:24:31.940 --> 00:24:34.059 of photos in it, but towards the end of the book 00:24:34.059 --> 00:24:37.940 he has the the current troops that are wearing 00:24:37.940 --> 00:24:42.759 the cap hat. not just the Vietnam guys. And one 00:24:42.759 --> 00:24:45.380 picture in particular is a young lady, captain, 00:24:45.500 --> 00:24:47.460 I think she's a helicopter pilot, maybe not, 00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:49.299 doesn't make any difference, but you can just 00:24:49.299 --> 00:24:52.039 see the pride in her face in this still black 00:24:52.039 --> 00:24:54.900 and white picture of how proud she is to be wearing 00:24:54.900 --> 00:25:01.480 this cap hat. I have to tell you, I was not in 00:25:01.480 --> 00:25:05.500 the cap, so I hated that hat. All I got was a 00:25:05.500 --> 00:25:08.240 dumb baseball cap that barely fit my head. Well, 00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:12.099 yeah, I did, too. But I mean, what says US Army 00:25:12.099 --> 00:25:15.819 more than a cavalry? I know, I know. It's a really 00:25:15.819 --> 00:25:18.160 cool hat. You know, there's a great tradition 00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:22.779 behind it and everything else. When I went to 00:25:22.779 --> 00:25:27.140 one Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association convention, 00:25:27.880 --> 00:25:31.279 and there they were. All these guys with the 00:25:31.279 --> 00:25:36.920 cowboy hats on. I guess I'm jealous a little 00:25:36.920 --> 00:25:40.500 bit. No, they're calf hats. No, I'm with you. 00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:45.140 I don't have the credentials to wear one, but 00:25:45.140 --> 00:25:48.240 I admire the guys that do. Well, sure. And a 00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:51.700 lot of them had it a lot rougher than certainly 00:25:51.700 --> 00:25:54.460 I did. I mean, I had a wooden hooch to sleep 00:25:54.460 --> 00:25:56.480 in about every night. I know a lot of these guys 00:25:56.480 --> 00:25:59.220 were living in tents. I mean, the whole tour. 00:26:01.110 --> 00:26:03.430 Going to the bathroom and slit trenches. They 00:26:03.430 --> 00:26:07.710 didn't even have what we had. Well, yeah, our 00:26:07.710 --> 00:26:10.470 outhouses. Yes, our outhouses. Thanks. There 00:26:10.470 --> 00:26:13.289 was a different way of thinking. Yeah, we can't 00:26:13.289 --> 00:26:16.730 use that. I didn't use it. No, no. But anyway. 00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:20.240 Uh, well, what I was getting at is that, uh, 00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:23.059 uh, the, uh, the cat hat book was excellent. 00:26:23.160 --> 00:26:26.240 Uh, I found myself smiling a lot here in the 00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:30.079 stories and so on. Um, but, uh, like I say, Matt 00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:34.319 Jackson's books, um, I, uh, you mentioned the 00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:37.480 books that I've put together. Uh, I don't really 00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:39.720 consider being an author to those books. What 00:26:39.720 --> 00:26:42.099 I did was take other people's stories and put 00:26:42.099 --> 00:26:45.430 them in one place to be seen. Now, I did have 00:26:45.430 --> 00:26:47.589 to write a lot of them through interviews and 00:26:47.589 --> 00:26:52.490 so on, but there are just some absolutely incredible 00:26:52.490 --> 00:26:57.390 stories about heroism or just dumb luck, but 00:26:57.390 --> 00:27:01.890 every one of them, the crew, all four aircraft, 00:27:02.069 --> 00:27:04.589 or all four of the crew usually in the Huey, 00:27:04.710 --> 00:27:08.700 were heroes. um granted the crew had to go where 00:27:08.700 --> 00:27:11.099 the pilot said but more than once the pilot would 00:27:11.099 --> 00:27:13.859 take a round look around behind him and he said 00:27:13.859 --> 00:27:15.539 the guys in the back are giving him a thumbs 00:27:15.539 --> 00:27:19.299 up you know let's go get them um that's the way 00:27:19.299 --> 00:27:22.359 it was i didn't know who you were didn't know 00:27:22.359 --> 00:27:24.359 the color of your skin didn't know your religion 00:27:24.359 --> 00:27:26.619 but you were wearing the same uniform that i 00:27:26.619 --> 00:27:28.779 was and you saluted the same flag so i'm going 00:27:28.779 --> 00:27:31.839 to come get your butt I think that's one of the 00:27:31.839 --> 00:27:34.420 things that every I think everybody kind of hopefully 00:27:34.420 --> 00:27:37.079 realizes that the one thing about the American 00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:40.519 military Historically has been that we never 00:27:40.519 --> 00:27:43.940 leave anybody out in a field. Yeah, and you know 00:27:43.940 --> 00:27:46.059 many times in Vietnam, which was you know was 00:27:46.059 --> 00:27:52.809 a helicopter war Is that you know we would You 00:27:52.809 --> 00:27:54.710 did it. You flew MEDEVAC. You would go out and 00:27:54.710 --> 00:27:57.930 get wounded people all the time. Many times MEDEVACs 00:27:57.930 --> 00:28:01.890 had no guns and no support, which is just crazy. 00:28:03.349 --> 00:28:06.049 And I mean, sometimes we would be off. We didn't 00:28:06.049 --> 00:28:07.750 have time to wait for the guns. This guy's out 00:28:07.750 --> 00:28:09.690 there bleeding. I know. You couldn't leave them 00:28:09.690 --> 00:28:14.490 there. I mean, I can relate. I got to fly a few 00:28:14.490 --> 00:28:18.450 MEDEVAC missions just because I was in the neighborhood. 00:28:19.049 --> 00:28:23.289 And the idea You know getting some of these people 00:28:23.289 --> 00:28:25.369 and some of them were you know deep in the jungle 00:28:25.369 --> 00:28:27.950 and you'd have to use a Penetrator or drop a 00:28:27.950 --> 00:28:30.289 basket or you know something along those lines 00:28:30.289 --> 00:28:33.910 to get them even get them out. Yeah Was was a 00:28:33.910 --> 00:28:38.089 challenge But we always did it. We never we we 00:28:38.089 --> 00:28:45.150 never I can remember my commanding officer When 00:28:45.150 --> 00:28:48.099 I first got to Vietnam told us a story about 00:28:48.099 --> 00:28:51.420 one of our helicopters that had gone down and 00:28:51.420 --> 00:28:53.759 in the middle of a firefight and all this other 00:28:53.759 --> 00:28:57.559 stuff. And they had another QA had come in and 00:28:57.559 --> 00:28:59.960 tried to, you know, rescued everybody and they 00:28:59.960 --> 00:29:02.799 took off and it came back. But it turns out that 00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:06.119 in the confusion of war, the fog of war, they 00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:09.480 had left a guy out in the field under the helicopter 00:29:09.480 --> 00:29:11.160 because the helicopter had crashed and rolled 00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:14.819 over on him. And they didn't know that he was 00:29:14.819 --> 00:29:20.480 even alive. But he went crazy just from the anger 00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:23.119 that you mean we never leave anybody out there 00:29:23.119 --> 00:29:26.079 and he got into the helicopter himself and flew 00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:31.160 out there to get the guy. Yeah. And I mean, that's 00:29:31.160 --> 00:29:33.519 just that's just what we did. We were taught 00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:35.579 that I think we were taught that from the first 00:29:35.579 --> 00:29:39.740 day of basic training almost probably. But some 00:29:39.740 --> 00:29:42.039 of the other books we did we mentioned that we 00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:44.920 were talking a lot about, you know, the Vietnam 00:29:44.920 --> 00:29:48.380 story and and so forth. And there are books that 00:29:48.380 --> 00:29:52.539 are not just about helicopter pilots, although 00:29:52.539 --> 00:29:55.740 we could go on about that for probably days. 00:29:55.740 --> 00:30:00.240 Yes. Because we know so many people. But there 00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:02.059 are other books that I, you know, I don't want 00:30:02.059 --> 00:30:05.380 to leave anybody out. The idea of, you know, 00:30:05.380 --> 00:30:08.180 we talked about Army nurses. I have talked to 00:30:08.180 --> 00:30:10.519 a couple of Army nurses on our program and a 00:30:10.519 --> 00:30:13.079 couple of their books that I would would recommend. 00:30:13.609 --> 00:30:19.509 would be Home Before Morning by Linda Vandevere. 00:30:21.269 --> 00:30:23.829 It's the story of an Army nurse. The Healing 00:30:23.829 --> 00:30:28.069 Wounds by Diane Carlson Evans. Everybody who 00:30:28.069 --> 00:30:31.170 knows about Army nurses during Vietnam has heard 00:30:31.170 --> 00:30:34.009 her name. She was one of the ones really responsible 00:30:34.009 --> 00:30:37.150 for getting the women's memorial next to the 00:30:37.150 --> 00:30:41.019 wall in Vietnam. um there's actually go ahead 00:30:41.019 --> 00:30:44.240 if i can interrupt i i have read her book and 00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:47.579 did a review on it and what she went through 00:30:47.579 --> 00:30:51.779 was absolutely irrehensible if that's the proper 00:30:51.779 --> 00:30:57.160 word uh that all the bs that she got from washington 00:30:57.160 --> 00:31:01.240 uh to put that up memorial oh yeah and she pursued 00:31:01.240 --> 00:31:06.140 and persisted and uh just an amazing woman um 00:31:06.190 --> 00:31:08.809 The last I heard she was not doing well health 00:31:08.809 --> 00:31:11.869 wise, you know, she's still with us. Right. I 00:31:11.869 --> 00:31:13.950 don't know for sure. I'm pretty sure she is, 00:31:13.950 --> 00:31:16.609 but I did hear that she was not doing well. It 00:31:16.609 --> 00:31:19.809 was an incredible book. Yeah. And, you know, 00:31:19.809 --> 00:31:22.730 there's actually kind of getting off topic just 00:31:22.730 --> 00:31:26.490 a little bit. There is a civilian book that was 00:31:26.490 --> 00:31:29.509 written. It's called The Women and it's about 00:31:29.509 --> 00:31:32.369 the nurses in Vietnam and it's about the women. 00:31:32.509 --> 00:31:36.160 It's written by Kristen Hanna. And it's a book 00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:38.700 I would recommend to anybody who wants to know 00:31:38.700 --> 00:31:41.480 generally about what the nurses actually did 00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:46.480 in Vietnam. And they did yeoman duty. I mean, 00:31:46.680 --> 00:31:51.240 can you imagine the carnage that they witnessed 00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:54.579 every single day and how they came out? And, 00:31:55.099 --> 00:31:56.559 you know, you're always talking about, you know, 00:31:56.619 --> 00:31:59.779 men with their post -traumatic stress. The things 00:31:59.779 --> 00:32:02.440 that they went through couldn't help but guarantee 00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:07.230 that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they did an amazing job. 00:32:07.730 --> 00:32:10.950 And my understanding is that weren't all of them, 00:32:11.069 --> 00:32:15.250 or at least most of them, volunteers? Yes. They 00:32:15.250 --> 00:32:18.230 didn't get drafted. All the stories talk about, 00:32:18.710 --> 00:32:20.069 well, not all of them, but some of them talk 00:32:20.069 --> 00:32:22.289 about having relatives that were in Vietnam, 00:32:23.130 --> 00:32:26.109 a brother that was there. And some of them wanted 00:32:26.109 --> 00:32:30.720 to do their part. or that you know very patriotic 00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:34.799 felt they needed to do this and You know, I think 00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:37.859 that they were all volunteers. I don't remember 00:32:37.859 --> 00:32:40.819 the number. I think it's about 8 ,000 You know 00:32:40.819 --> 00:32:43.480 out of the what 2 million sounds about right 00:32:43.480 --> 00:32:46.299 that were that were over there, but you know 00:32:46.299 --> 00:32:50.940 anybody who was had had the Unfortunate, you 00:32:50.940 --> 00:32:52.759 know the thing of getting shot down or getting 00:32:52.759 --> 00:32:56.140 shot And we survived and went through one of 00:32:56.140 --> 00:33:02.779 those hospitals Thank God for the nurses. They 00:33:02.779 --> 00:33:05.319 talk about being the mothers, the sisters, the 00:33:05.319 --> 00:33:07.819 girlfriends, the wives of talking to many of 00:33:07.819 --> 00:33:11.980 these guys who were on their deathbed in some 00:33:11.980 --> 00:33:15.140 cases, and they were the last people that they 00:33:15.140 --> 00:33:19.720 saw. I'm sure you know, maybe your audience doesn't 00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:22.500 know, but there are eight women on the wall in 00:33:22.500 --> 00:33:26.160 DC, and one of them is a nurse who died in a 00:33:26.160 --> 00:33:30.269 rocket attack. a rocket hit the recovery room 00:33:30.269 --> 00:33:33.670 in the hospital, I believe, and she was killed. 00:33:34.309 --> 00:33:37.910 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and that's, you know, so 00:33:37.910 --> 00:33:39.990 we did, you know, again, just to remind our audience 00:33:39.990 --> 00:33:43.029 that it wasn't just guys that were, you know, 00:33:43.029 --> 00:33:44.930 that were fighting this war, you know, that we 00:33:44.930 --> 00:33:47.089 were, we were in the air and we were on the ground. 00:33:47.109 --> 00:33:49.849 And many of us that were in the air, we went 00:33:49.849 --> 00:33:51.529 into the air because we didn't want to be on 00:33:51.529 --> 00:33:55.049 the ground. We thought we were really smart and 00:33:55.049 --> 00:33:57.369 that didn't turn out to be the best idea. Now, 00:33:57.390 --> 00:33:59.150 you're going to teach me to fly a helicopter? 00:33:59.569 --> 00:34:02.470 Where do I sign? When can I leave? Oh, going 00:34:02.470 --> 00:34:05.170 to Vietnam? That's okay. Just just teach me how 00:34:05.170 --> 00:34:08.429 to fly. I can figure this out, you know, no problem. 00:34:09.190 --> 00:34:12.590 But a couple of books that that people have talked 00:34:12.590 --> 00:34:15.650 about, you know, we were talking earlier is about 00:34:15.650 --> 00:34:17.809 helicopter pilots and so forth. And number one 00:34:17.809 --> 00:34:20.570 was Chickenhawk. Chickenhawk, I think, was one 00:34:20.570 --> 00:34:23.289 of the very first books that came out about being 00:34:23.289 --> 00:34:25.369 a pilot in Vietnam. And that was I believe so. 00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:32.139 That was Robert Mason. It came out in 1983. He 00:34:32.139 --> 00:34:34.860 talks about his experience with the first calf 00:34:34.860 --> 00:34:43.030 in 1965 -1966. He was there early on during the 00:34:43.030 --> 00:34:46.469 war. Yeah, that was the first book about Vietnam 00:34:46.469 --> 00:34:48.329 that I read. I thought he did an excellent job 00:34:48.329 --> 00:34:50.809 with it. Yeah, it's a great story. If you get 00:34:50.809 --> 00:34:53.590 the opportunity, I would check those out. A couple 00:34:53.590 --> 00:34:56.469 of other helicopter books that I was thinking 00:34:56.469 --> 00:35:02.889 of was, and you mentioned a couple of them already, 00:35:03.590 --> 00:35:09.659 but there's Black Cat 21 by Bob Ford. Excellent 00:35:09.659 --> 00:35:13.340 stories the chariots in the sky by Larry Freeland 00:35:13.340 --> 00:35:17.860 Snake pilot which is a Cobra pilot gunship pilot 00:35:17.860 --> 00:35:20.900 he talked Randy's on have you have you read that 00:35:20.900 --> 00:35:23.840 one a long time ago? Yeah, well most of these 00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:28.519 we read a long time ago Lifetime ago, but you 00:35:28.519 --> 00:35:30.619 know that they're they're in the bookcase. That's 00:35:30.619 --> 00:35:34.000 for sure. Yeah, the one that I talked to most 00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:37.579 recently I guess was through the valley by William 00:35:37.579 --> 00:35:40.760 Reeder. And he said he was the last soldier taken 00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:43.900 prisoner. He was a helicopter pilot. He crashed 00:35:43.900 --> 00:35:49.320 around Ben Het, which I think is up north. I 00:35:49.320 --> 00:35:51.820 was in III Corps. Where were you stationed? I 00:35:51.820 --> 00:35:54.880 was Northern I Corps. Oh, you were way up there. 00:35:55.420 --> 00:35:58.460 Yeah, yeah, we had to talk North Vietnamese to 00:35:58.460 --> 00:36:04.619 some of the local people. I guess. I guess so. 00:36:04.860 --> 00:36:06.940 Yeah, we were the northernmost dust off the unit. 00:36:07.340 --> 00:36:10.199 Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, he was the last 00:36:10.199 --> 00:36:14.380 soldier taken prisoner in Vietnam. And it's a 00:36:14.380 --> 00:36:17.179 very interesting, it's very scary story, because 00:36:17.179 --> 00:36:19.880 it obviously could happen to any of us. Sure. 00:36:21.099 --> 00:36:24.760 If we had gotten ourselves into trouble, which 00:36:24.760 --> 00:36:28.239 luckily we escaped from all that stuff. I think 00:36:28.239 --> 00:36:31.590 that was most of us biggest fear. Well, yeah 00:36:31.590 --> 00:36:34.630 that and fire well that was fire was number two 00:36:34.630 --> 00:36:38.449 for me prisoner was number one Number two was 00:36:38.449 --> 00:36:41.449 fire. Well, you know sometimes when you did some 00:36:41.449 --> 00:36:44.670 of these missions and you know I'm I'm just reading 00:36:44.670 --> 00:36:49.210 a book that I got the other day about SOG Special 00:36:49.210 --> 00:36:52.610 Operations Group and many of them the missions 00:36:52.610 --> 00:36:55.550 that my unit flew were Across the fence, which 00:36:55.550 --> 00:37:00.119 is another book out there that I just saw And 00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:01.820 that was a big thing that I was worried about 00:37:01.820 --> 00:37:03.599 over there. Not only was I going to get shot 00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:05.760 down, I was going to get shot down out of the 00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:10.139 country. And the Army had already told us that 00:37:10.139 --> 00:37:11.739 they weren't going to acknowledge that we were 00:37:11.739 --> 00:37:15.340 even there. And you have to leave all your credentials 00:37:15.340 --> 00:37:19.659 and everything. No identification, no dog tags, 00:37:19.980 --> 00:37:23.280 nothing. They wouldn't guess you were a US pilot. 00:37:24.059 --> 00:37:26.599 They would never figure that out. Never guess. 00:37:26.860 --> 00:37:31.860 No, and the helicopters that we flew were the 00:37:31.860 --> 00:37:35.480 only ones that were authorized to be camouflaged. 00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:39.739 They didn't even have numbers on the helicopter. 00:37:41.519 --> 00:37:43.500 It's not like they're not going to know who we 00:37:43.500 --> 00:37:47.420 are. Did you have whisper mode on your rotor 00:37:47.420 --> 00:37:49.739 system so they couldn't hear you too? Yeah, it 00:37:49.739 --> 00:37:59.059 was a silencer. That's part of the part of the 00:37:59.059 --> 00:38:02.480 Nonsense and ineptitude of our leaders that that 00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:05.500 you and I talked about earlier. How crazy is 00:38:05.500 --> 00:38:08.739 you having to do that? It is crazy trying to 00:38:08.739 --> 00:38:13.099 hide like I'm not from the United States No, 00:38:13.219 --> 00:38:16.519 well, they did give us they gave us a What was 00:38:16.519 --> 00:38:19.559 that thing? The blood shit thing. That was the 00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:21.099 only thing that we carried which was kind of 00:38:21.099 --> 00:38:22.579 dumb when you think it couldn't carry anything 00:38:22.579 --> 00:38:25.260 else. The blood shit says I'm a member of the 00:38:25.260 --> 00:38:27.960 United States military or United States citizen, 00:38:28.179 --> 00:38:31.840 whatever. Right. And if you return me safely, 00:38:31.960 --> 00:38:35.960 you'll get a reward. Yeah. Yeah. Got a case of 00:38:35.960 --> 00:38:38.800 C rashes with your name on it. Yeah. All right. 00:38:38.800 --> 00:38:41.659 Well, let's go. Let's let's talk about it. No, 00:38:42.119 --> 00:38:48.539 that's okay. Tim O 'Brien. All right. Tim O 'Brien 00:38:48.539 --> 00:38:51.900 wrote the probably the best known book about 00:38:51.900 --> 00:38:54.519 Vietnam and the things that we carried and the 00:38:54.519 --> 00:38:57.599 things they carried, which was his story of his 00:38:57.599 --> 00:38:59.539 experiences in Vietnam. He wrote a number of 00:38:59.539 --> 00:39:03.719 other books as well about Vietnam. But if you're 00:39:03.719 --> 00:39:07.079 interested in learning about the Vietnam experience, 00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:09.440 I think Tim O 'Brien is one of the good ones 00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:14.289 to read. I haven't run across any bad ones yet. 00:39:14.289 --> 00:39:16.550 I mean, some are better than others, but I haven't 00:39:16.550 --> 00:39:19.570 run across any bad ones. They're all educational. 00:39:20.289 --> 00:39:22.789 The kids in school today, if anything, they might 00:39:22.789 --> 00:39:26.349 get two paragraphs about the Vietnam War. Right, 00:39:26.469 --> 00:39:28.969 yeah. Again, that's like when we were in school 00:39:28.969 --> 00:39:31.130 and we got two paragraphs about World War II. 00:39:31.730 --> 00:39:34.130 Yeah, exactly. You know, they run out of time, 00:39:34.150 --> 00:39:40.159 which is too bad. Yeah, yeah. And one book that 00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:42.739 I talked to Phil about that I would recommend 00:39:42.739 --> 00:39:46.019 if you're interested in finding out a lot about 00:39:46.019 --> 00:39:50.400 the literature on Vietnam is called The Vietnam 00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:56.179 Reader. And this came out in 1998. As I say, 00:39:56.300 --> 00:39:58.219 it's called The Vietnam Reader. It's edited by 00:39:58.219 --> 00:40:03.750 Stuart Onan. It's the definitive collection of 00:40:03.750 --> 00:40:06.690 American fiction and nonfiction on the war. I'm 00:40:06.690 --> 00:40:08.630 not even sure if the book is available, but if 00:40:08.630 --> 00:40:11.510 you just put in Vietnam Reader, hopefully you'll 00:40:11.510 --> 00:40:13.849 be able to get a hold of it. But it's got quotes 00:40:13.849 --> 00:40:16.690 from many, many different books. It talks about 00:40:16.690 --> 00:40:19.869 the music of Vietnam, which was very important 00:40:19.869 --> 00:40:26.139 to us while we were there. If we hadn't had the 00:40:26.139 --> 00:40:27.820 music from home, I don't know what we would have 00:40:27.820 --> 00:40:34.059 done for any kind of relaxation. But it's got 00:40:34.059 --> 00:40:37.280 poetry and everything else. It was who had the 00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:39.539 biggest reel -to -reel tape recorder and had 00:40:39.539 --> 00:40:42.320 the most music. That was the guy you looked up 00:40:42.320 --> 00:40:47.639 to. That's right, yes. Big reel -to -reel. Everybody's 00:40:47.639 --> 00:40:52.170 copying everybody else's tapes. And the nice 00:40:52.170 --> 00:40:54.150 thing about it was, as a pilot, and I'm sure 00:40:54.150 --> 00:40:57.750 maybe even the people that flew fast movers did, 00:40:58.050 --> 00:41:00.570 you could listen to armed forces radio while 00:41:00.570 --> 00:41:05.150 you were in the air. Yes, yes. But I rarely did. 00:41:05.469 --> 00:41:10.409 I rarely did. Well, it was my ADF finder. Yeah, 00:41:10.590 --> 00:41:12.510 yeah. I knew if I was going down, this is where 00:41:12.510 --> 00:41:14.989 it was. But partly, I think, because our missions 00:41:14.989 --> 00:41:19.059 were usually rather short. If we had a Nash and 00:41:19.059 --> 00:41:24.059 Trash mission to Janang for documents or whatever, 00:41:24.159 --> 00:41:25.980 yeah, that gave us time to listen because we 00:41:25.980 --> 00:41:28.880 were up at altitude and stuff. But, yeah, on 00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:30.980 our day -to -day missions, we rarely, rarely 00:41:30.980 --> 00:41:32.780 had it on. But, yeah, we certainly appreciated 00:41:32.780 --> 00:41:35.820 and enjoyed it. That's for darn sure. It was. 00:41:35.980 --> 00:41:39.019 It was. It was great. And I can do that. So I 00:41:39.019 --> 00:41:41.400 mentioned the things that the things they carried 00:41:41.400 --> 00:41:45.420 by Tim O 'Brien. There's a book for, you know, 00:41:46.119 --> 00:41:49.000 There were more and more minorities in the military 00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:52.219 The long of the war went on it seemed and there 00:41:52.219 --> 00:41:55.539 is a book out that's called Bloods. It's black 00:41:55.539 --> 00:41:58.039 veterans of the Vietnam War It's an oral history 00:41:58.039 --> 00:42:02.139 is by Wallace Terry and it was written in 1984 00:42:02.139 --> 00:42:04.800 So the book is called Bloods black veterans of 00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:10.820 the Vietnam War. It's I can't imagine You know 00:42:10.820 --> 00:42:14.690 their experiences over there because it was Well, 00:42:15.150 --> 00:42:18.150 it's the same as it was here at home. Many of 00:42:18.150 --> 00:42:22.289 them did not get the opportunity to experience. 00:42:22.429 --> 00:42:25.070 There weren't a lot of black pilots. And the 00:42:25.070 --> 00:42:27.309 ones that I did know were always seemed to be 00:42:27.309 --> 00:42:31.190 sent to the transportation platoon. It wasn't 00:42:31.190 --> 00:42:35.809 really fair. I just read a book and the author's 00:42:35.809 --> 00:42:39.659 name escapes me at the moment. Uh, but, uh, it 00:42:39.659 --> 00:42:42.380 was a black pilot. Uh, I know Arnold Sampson 00:42:42.380 --> 00:42:46.019 flew dust off, uh, was a black pilot. Uh, but, 00:42:46.019 --> 00:42:48.860 uh, it was very, very well done. And the, uh, 00:42:48.860 --> 00:42:51.000 yes, you're right. The, the stuff they had to 00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:55.019 go through the racial stuff. Um, it's just a 00:42:55.019 --> 00:42:59.360 shame. Um, it, uh, they, they were qualified 00:42:59.360 --> 00:43:01.639 just like the rest of us and yet they were treated 00:43:01.639 --> 00:43:04.219 differently. And that's not right. Oh, that's 00:43:04.219 --> 00:43:06.920 not right. Um, there's a book about the music 00:43:06.920 --> 00:43:10.440 that I wanted to mention people more Recent book 00:43:10.440 --> 00:43:12.360 about it. It's called we got to get out of this 00:43:12.360 --> 00:43:16.579 place A song that we were all very familiar with 00:43:16.579 --> 00:43:20.780 but it was written by doug bradley and Doug bradley 00:43:20.780 --> 00:43:23.920 is up in uh, where is he? He's up in wisconsin 00:43:23.920 --> 00:43:26.940 And he's written all about the music of vietnam 00:43:26.940 --> 00:43:32.300 And it's uh, it's a great story For those of 00:43:32.300 --> 00:43:34.719 you that are Vietnam veterans, you'd love to 00:43:34.719 --> 00:43:36.800 read it because you're going to recognize so 00:43:36.800 --> 00:43:42.559 much of the music that he talks about. It's a 00:43:42.559 --> 00:43:45.260 great story, and I give you the opportunity to 00:43:45.260 --> 00:43:48.719 do that if you talk about the music of Vietnam. 00:43:49.760 --> 00:43:52.039 Another book. Go ahead. I'm just going to say 00:43:52.039 --> 00:43:54.760 the story or the book that I was mentioning about 00:43:54.760 --> 00:43:58.900 the Black Pilot. The title is 600 M .O .L. more 00:43:58.900 --> 00:44:04.780 or less 600 MOL black pilots. Okay. And that 00:44:04.780 --> 00:44:07.179 says estimate on how many black helicopter pilots 00:44:07.179 --> 00:44:10.599 there were in Vietnam. You know, weren't there 00:44:10.599 --> 00:44:14.599 about 40 ,000 of us? That's, that's a number 00:44:14.599 --> 00:44:16.980 that I've heard. Yes. I mean, over the whole 00:44:16.980 --> 00:44:19.980 10 years. Oh, yeah. But of course, that would 00:44:19.980 --> 00:44:22.659 have been Air Force and Navy and, and everything. 00:44:22.860 --> 00:44:26.900 But yeah, this was 600 MOL. more or less black 00:44:26.900 --> 00:44:29.900 pilots. And that was an excellent book. And I 00:44:29.900 --> 00:44:33.119 really felt sorry for the guys that, you know, 00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:35.639 I have no prejudices. Like I say, I never asked 00:44:35.639 --> 00:44:39.619 what color the guys were on the ground. But yeah, 00:44:39.639 --> 00:44:43.320 they went through a lot more than we did. Well, 00:44:43.739 --> 00:44:47.460 again, yeah, it's another good, good story. There's 00:44:47.460 --> 00:44:50.820 a book that I had the good fortune of talking 00:44:50.820 --> 00:44:54.159 to the author Carl Morlan is called Matterhorn. 00:44:54.320 --> 00:44:58.119 and it's kind of a fictional account of his experiences 00:44:58.119 --> 00:45:02.780 in Vietnam. He was a Marine up in I Corps, I 00:45:02.780 --> 00:45:08.940 believe it was, and he's just, it's a, it's a 00:45:08.940 --> 00:45:11.840 really powerful, disturbing story of what Marine 00:45:11.840 --> 00:45:16.000 infantry men went through during their tours 00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:20.469 and, you know, of taking an object and then They'd 00:45:20.469 --> 00:45:22.269 leave the top of a mountain and go someplace 00:45:22.269 --> 00:45:24.829 else, and then they'd be told to go back and 00:45:24.829 --> 00:45:26.849 take the mountain again. Yeah, isn't that crazy? 00:45:29.170 --> 00:45:32.650 Absolutely crazy. And that happened over and 00:45:32.650 --> 00:45:35.550 over again. And I think that was some of the 00:45:35.550 --> 00:45:38.889 frustration that many of us felt over there, 00:45:39.369 --> 00:45:42.130 is that we kept taking the same places over and 00:45:42.130 --> 00:45:46.269 over again. Yeah. What's that? The definition 00:45:46.269 --> 00:45:49.889 of insanity? Yeah, doing the same thing over 00:45:49.889 --> 00:45:52.250 again over and over and over and over and over 00:45:52.250 --> 00:45:55.489 again. Yeah, expecting a different outcome Doesn't 00:45:55.489 --> 00:45:59.289 work that way Never works that way. So that's 00:45:59.289 --> 00:46:01.909 better when I are smarter than that. I know we're 00:46:01.909 --> 00:46:06.909 so much better than that Let's see, what do we 00:46:06.909 --> 00:46:10.349 got here on my list? I've got a book. Oh the 00:46:10.349 --> 00:46:14.110 short timers short timers by Gustav Hansford 00:46:14.110 --> 00:46:19.840 1979 it is Loosely it was written and then full 00:46:19.840 --> 00:46:24.599 metal jacket was loosely based on it About the 00:46:24.599 --> 00:46:26.940 you know, the Marines Marine training and then 00:46:26.940 --> 00:46:30.199 their experiences in Vietnam, but it's a Again, 00:46:30.199 --> 00:46:33.239 very fascinating interesting story. There aren't 00:46:33.239 --> 00:46:36.519 you know, there are some books about the Vietnam 00:46:36.519 --> 00:46:40.039 War that some people have attempted to make humorous 00:46:40.039 --> 00:46:43.789 and They're humorous if you were there, I don't 00:46:43.789 --> 00:46:46.530 think you would find them very humorous if you 00:46:46.530 --> 00:46:51.250 were not there. Kind of in humor, I guess you 00:46:51.250 --> 00:46:52.989 would call it. Full metal jacket, I never read 00:46:52.989 --> 00:46:55.909 the book, but I did not like the movie. I didn't 00:46:55.909 --> 00:46:59.289 think it was accurate. I wasn't a Marine, so 00:46:59.289 --> 00:47:03.309 I don't know, but I just thought it was a little 00:47:03.309 --> 00:47:06.969 bit too much. Yeah, that was one of the first 00:47:06.969 --> 00:47:10.110 Vietnam movies I watched and I was not real happy 00:47:10.110 --> 00:47:14.219 with it. Now I wasn't just once outstanding. 00:47:18.119 --> 00:47:24.380 Yeah How more yeah, I Don't want to say too much 00:47:24.380 --> 00:47:28.219 but there there's someone that's attempting to 00:47:28.219 --> 00:47:30.440 make a Vietnam movie based on the helicopter 00:47:30.440 --> 00:47:33.639 pilots and They have been working with how more 00:47:33.639 --> 00:47:37.039 and how more said if you get 70 % of what you 00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:40.280 want in the movie You're doing good Oh, absolutely. 00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:42.619 Can you imagine the cost of putting together 00:47:42.619 --> 00:47:45.400 a movie about helicopter pilots? Yeah, yeah, 00:47:45.639 --> 00:47:46.880 you know, you're gonna be pulling all that gonna 00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:51.780 be pulling all those Huey monuments Yeah, no 00:47:51.780 --> 00:47:54.039 now we have to do that. Yeah. Well, you know, 00:47:55.039 --> 00:47:58.480 we I took a stare. How much time have I got after 00:47:58.480 --> 00:48:02.199 I play a gym segment? Four minutes after that. 00:48:02.199 --> 00:48:04.579 Okay. Well, I'm gonna didn't forget that it's 00:48:04.579 --> 00:48:10.789 there a couple of more real quick books I'm going 00:48:10.789 --> 00:48:12.570 to go to you. There's some history books that 00:48:12.570 --> 00:48:14.210 you may want to read. There's The Best and the 00:48:14.210 --> 00:48:18.010 Brightest by David Alberston. That's one that's 00:48:18.010 --> 00:48:24.210 always out there. There is Stanley Karnow, which 00:48:24.210 --> 00:48:28.050 is The Vietnam, The History, which goes along 00:48:28.050 --> 00:48:32.309 with the American Experience series on PBS. Very 00:48:32.309 --> 00:48:35.829 thorough if you want to know what went on, at 00:48:35.829 --> 00:48:38.739 least the background of what went on over in 00:48:38.739 --> 00:48:41.699 Vietnam. Those are two really good books that 00:48:41.699 --> 00:48:46.920 you might want to look at. Anymore you'd like 00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:51.400 to mention? Not off the top of my head. Like 00:48:51.400 --> 00:48:57.000 I say, as being the book reviewer for the Vietnam 00:48:57.000 --> 00:49:00.280 Helicopter Pilots Association Aviator magazine 00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:03.300 now, I've read a lot and really there's none 00:49:03.300 --> 00:49:08.900 that I can't recommend. true from the heart stories 00:49:08.900 --> 00:49:13.079 and some of them are pretty incredible and um 00:49:13.079 --> 00:49:15.440 while no one would ever know what it was like 00:49:15.440 --> 00:49:17.340 without being there he gives you some of them 00:49:17.340 --> 00:49:20.880 give you a pretty good taste yes i can't remember 00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:23.099 i wrote it down and now i can't find my note 00:49:23.099 --> 00:49:25.579 about it one guy was it was about a hunter killer 00:49:25.579 --> 00:49:28.380 team and our killer team was a loach that would 00:49:28.380 --> 00:49:32.059 fly low level with a uh cobra up above and they 00:49:32.059 --> 00:49:36.380 would go down those who just fly along the treetops 00:49:36.380 --> 00:49:39.280 looking for the bad guys. Snake country or something? 00:49:39.679 --> 00:49:42.500 Snake pilot, that's what it was. Yeah, that's 00:49:42.500 --> 00:49:47.559 a great story. There are so many out there. All 00:49:47.559 --> 00:49:50.199 you got to do, folks, is just, you know, when 00:49:50.199 --> 00:49:53.960 you get on your computer and Google Vietnam helicopter 00:49:53.960 --> 00:49:57.159 pilot stories, you're going to find hundreds 00:49:57.159 --> 00:49:59.360 of books, really. Some of them are very good. 00:49:59.440 --> 00:50:01.829 Some of them are All the stories are good. They're 00:50:01.829 --> 00:50:04.110 very educational. Everybody's got a different 00:50:04.110 --> 00:50:07.630 insight as to what was going on. Well, if you 00:50:07.630 --> 00:50:10.530 go on Google and just search Vietnam helicopter, 00:50:10.769 --> 00:50:12.809 you'll come up with a few hundred books. And 00:50:12.809 --> 00:50:15.230 of course, they're all rated one to five stars. 00:50:15.610 --> 00:50:18.429 And that should give you a pretty good indication. 00:50:19.809 --> 00:50:21.989 OK. All right. Well, we're going to fill. We're 00:50:21.989 --> 00:50:24.050 going to I got to play another segment here. 00:50:24.690 --> 00:50:28.920 So hold on. My partner Jim Falzone has recorded 00:50:28.920 --> 00:50:32.199 a series of issues about the upcoming Medal of 00:50:32.199 --> 00:50:35.519 Honor Convention in Detroit at the end of September. 00:50:35.880 --> 00:50:37.699 So we're going to play this right now. We'll 00:50:37.699 --> 00:50:41.800 be back after about three minutes. The Congressional 00:50:41.800 --> 00:50:44.039 Medal of Honor Society Convention will be held 00:50:44.039 --> 00:50:48.000 in Detroit from September 29th to October 3rd 00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:51.980 of 2026, featuring the largest gathering of living 00:50:51.980 --> 00:50:55.880 Medal of Honor recipients. It brings together 00:50:55.880 --> 00:50:59.119 as many as 60 living Medal of Honor recipients 00:50:59.119 --> 00:51:01.480 for a series of public and private events aimed 00:51:01.480 --> 00:51:04.260 at sharing their heroic stories and promoting 00:51:04.260 --> 00:51:07.460 the values of the Medal of Honor, such as commitment, 00:51:08.440 --> 00:51:13.500 integrity, courage, sacrifice, citizenship, and 00:51:13.500 --> 00:51:17.280 patriotism. This event will also include community 00:51:17.280 --> 00:51:20.059 engagement activities allowing recipients to 00:51:20.059 --> 00:51:23.900 connect with the local Metro Detroit students. 00:51:23.960 --> 00:51:28.119 veterans and active military members. This convention 00:51:28.119 --> 00:51:30.719 represents a unique opportunity for the City 00:51:30.719 --> 00:51:33.519 of Detroit and surrounding area to honor its 00:51:33.519 --> 00:51:37.360 military heroes and foster a spirit of patriotism 00:51:37.360 --> 00:51:40.619 and community engagement. You can learn more 00:51:40.619 --> 00:51:44.440 about this upcoming convention at medalofhonoredetroit 00:51:44.440 --> 00:51:48.860 .com. You can go there to support it with financial 00:51:48.860 --> 00:51:52.760 resources and volunteer support. Let me tell 00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:58.280 you about one of these men. Ken David was born 00:51:58.280 --> 00:52:01.900 in a quiet steel town in Gerrard, Ohio. He was 00:52:01.900 --> 00:52:05.820 a serious kid and made the rank of Eagle Scout. 00:52:06.699 --> 00:52:09.980 And he went right from Gerrard High School into 00:52:09.980 --> 00:52:15.039 Vietnam. He completed basic training and advanced 00:52:15.039 --> 00:52:20.659 training and found himself in 1970. really at 00:52:20.659 --> 00:52:23.820 the height of the Vietnam era. His unit came 00:52:23.820 --> 00:52:28.219 under fire attack and David repeatedly exposed 00:52:28.219 --> 00:52:31.659 himself to fierce enemy fire, drawing attention 00:52:31.659 --> 00:52:35.199 away from wounded comrades. Even after being 00:52:35.199 --> 00:52:38.139 wounded by a satchel charge, he continued to 00:52:38.139 --> 00:52:42.480 fight to move to pull others to safety. David 00:52:42.480 --> 00:52:44.760 simply says, I did what I was trained to do. 00:52:46.099 --> 00:52:49.079 His distinguished service cross was upgraded 00:52:49.079 --> 00:52:53.380 to the Medal of Honor 45 years after those heroics. 00:52:53.679 --> 00:52:56.880 Yet, the war did not end when David came home. 00:52:57.260 --> 00:53:01.159 He talks about his transition to civilian life 00:53:01.159 --> 00:53:03.980 was marked by emotional struggle, disillusionment, 00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:09.420 and trauma. He went to work as an HVAC tradesman, 00:53:09.599 --> 00:53:12.119 settling into the rhythm of blue -collar labor 00:53:12.119 --> 00:53:15.340 in Crumble County, Ohio. The trade gave him steady 00:53:15.340 --> 00:53:19.550 purpose. gave him his smile back. Over the decades 00:53:19.550 --> 00:53:23.170 he spent a lot of time working with other veterans 00:53:23.170 --> 00:53:27.869 and veteran groups because he knew how important 00:53:27.869 --> 00:53:33.429 that was based on his own experiences. He's a 00:53:33.429 --> 00:53:37.809 very humble man and his valor is not really measured 00:53:37.809 --> 00:53:41.329 by that one single day but in the quiet decades 00:53:41.329 --> 00:53:45.380 afterwards where he chose again and again to 00:53:45.380 --> 00:53:48.179 serve his fellow veterans. You can learn more 00:53:48.179 --> 00:53:51.980 about these men by going to the Congressional 00:53:51.980 --> 00:53:58.500 Medal of Honor Society site, cmohs .org, and 00:53:58.500 --> 00:54:02.739 remember to visit medalofhonoredetroit .com. 00:54:04.440 --> 00:54:06.980 Okay, so I want to thank everybody for listening 00:54:06.980 --> 00:54:09.250 today. I want to thank Bill Marshall for coming 00:54:09.250 --> 00:54:11.670 on and talking about some of these books that 00:54:11.670 --> 00:54:14.190 we've been reading over the years about Vietnam. 00:54:14.889 --> 00:54:16.630 You can find these lists, as we mentioned, just 00:54:16.630 --> 00:54:18.710 go into Google and put down Vietnam War books 00:54:18.710 --> 00:54:22.250 and you'll have plenty to read about. Nurses, 00:54:22.429 --> 00:54:26.309 pilots, infantry, navy, coast guard, everybody 00:54:26.309 --> 00:54:28.769 that's out there, Air Force 2 of course, but 00:54:28.769 --> 00:54:31.170 you got great stories. And the other thing I 00:54:31.170 --> 00:54:33.019 wanted to make sure is I want to make want you 00:54:33.019 --> 00:54:36.860 to check out Bravo Zulu House. I think this is 00:54:36.860 --> 00:54:40.619 this is kind of an unusual organization, you 00:54:40.619 --> 00:54:43.340 know, and what their specialty is, is, you know, 00:54:43.420 --> 00:54:47.000 helping people get sober, working through their 00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:48.860 post -traumatic stress, a lot of great things. 00:54:49.019 --> 00:54:51.820 I think we want you to check that out, bravozuluhouse 00:54:51.820 --> 00:54:55.400 .org. And again, I want to thank Phil for talking 00:54:55.400 --> 00:54:57.320 about the books. Next week we're going to be 00:54:57.320 --> 00:55:00.000 doing a benefits program. And so if you've got 00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:03.019 any questions, please send me an email, dale 00:55:03.019 --> 00:55:05.619 at veteransradio .org. We will attempt to order 00:55:05.619 --> 00:55:08.019 them. Lots of things going on at the VA. By the 00:55:08.019 --> 00:55:10.679 way, they rescinded that order that they were 00:55:10.679 --> 00:55:13.320 going to lower disability benefits if your medication 00:55:13.320 --> 00:55:16.760 took care of your particular condition. They 00:55:16.760 --> 00:55:19.940 got rid of that. You can relax and breathe that. 00:55:20.300 --> 00:55:22.119 So until next week, this is Dale Thornberry for 00:55:22.119 --> 00:55:23.860 all of us here at Veterans Radio. We greatly 00:55:23.860 --> 00:55:26.539 appreciate your listening to our program, and 00:55:26.539 --> 00:55:50.670 until then, you are dismissed. Stand beside her, 00:55:51.170 --> 00:55:57.250 and guide her Through the night with the light 00:55:57.250 --> 00:56:06.289 from above From the mountain, to the prairie, 00:56:06.789 --> 00:56:16.630 to the ocean White with morn, God bless them 00:56:17.099 --> 00:56:30.239 America, my home sweet home God bless America, 00:56:31.760 --> 00:56:33.079 my home sweet home