All across America and around the world, welcome
to America's number one veterans program, the
Voice of America's Veterans, Veterans Radio.
And now, here's your host for today's program,
former chief warrant officer, 195th Assault Helicopter
Company, Republic of Vietnam, 1969, Dale Throneberry.
And good morning, everyone. 1969. Holy mackerel.
40 years ago. I was talking to somebody earlier
this week and Woodstock's 40th anniversary is
this week also for those of you that can remember
Woodstock in upstate New York and somebody asked
if I had been there and I said no I'm sorry I
was out of town that week wasn't able to make
it but you are listening to Veterans Radio and
we are coming to you from the studios of WDEO
990 AM in Ann Arbor Michigan and we want to thank
the management of WDEO for offering us the opportunity
of using their studios. It's been a great ride
for us and we're very excited to be on their
station. Over 300 programs. Oh my gosh. Isn't
that something? You know there's a lot of television
programs and shows that make it for one year
and we've almost six. I know it is kind of amazing
and we never run out of topics. which is always,
you know, my little segue today. Today we're
going to be talking about the GI Bill, the big
GI Bill, the new deal for veterans and the original
GI Bill from 1944 is when it was signed by President
Franklin Roosevelt. And I think you're going
to be interested today. We've got the author
of the book, The GI Bill, The New Deal for Veterans,
Glenn Altshuler, from Cornell University. And
he's going to be talking to us about the history
of veterans' benefits. And I think you're going
to find it fascinating, because when I was reading
through it, I found it fascinating. Did you have
the GI Bill? Oh, yeah. I did, too. And yeah,
I think they had to get us a new edition or whatever
it was. And then they would give us next. But
it was retro. It was retro. They gave us... Well,
we'll get into this later, but they gave us X
amount of cash and we could choose whatever college
we wanted to go to every month and we had to
pay our own bills. I was driving a truck, married,
two children. driving a truck and I heard it
on the radio, I called the school, called the
college, enrolled, quit my job the next day.
That's a true story with the school full -time
when I heard the GI Bill was coming. That's a
true story. There's a lot of stories like that
out there and I'm hoping that people out there
that are listening to our program today possibly
can give us a call here at Veterans Radio and
our number in the studio is 877 -573 -7825. That's
877 -573 -7825. We're going to be talking with
Glenn after the welcome home break. But first,
I understand that the Air Force wants to talk
to us. They always have to make a big entrance.
The reason we're doing this is that up at Selfridge
Air Force Base, this is locally in Michigan,
up in Mount Clemens, the Selfridge Air Show is
going on starting this morning. You can go out
there and see the Thunderbirds the US Air Force's
crack Air Force team and you're gonna be able
to see them flying give their demonstrations.
There are Static displays of different types
of aircraft. There's gonna be a remote -controlled
aircraft and we talked about this with the Navy
Flyers the Blue Angels a couple of weeks ago
that were here locally But now you have the opportunity
to go up and see the Thunderbirds. It is a free
show folks Free admission free parking and I'll
get into the rules of what you have to do and
bring up there in just a second But Bob, I know
you had a story you wanted to tell absolutely
about the last time you saw the Blue Angels down
in Dayton when I was down in Dayton covering
the Dayton air program Dayton air show I was
covering the Thunderbirds when they arrived the
day before the air show and I was given Thunderbird
number one Well, you know they pull in information
and the mechanics come out and they put the ladder
and they open the canopy and unbuckle the pilot
and My pilot climbed down out of the aircraft
and my pilot walked over it. It was just me and
another guy there were five of them, I believe
that day and pilot took off took off the helmet
and shook her hair I was I was well, you know,
you don't expect that right? I'm from the other
millet. Come on All the guys out there with this
woman just flew 800 miles an hour They did a
little air show too before they landed. I don't
know. They must you know kind of get the kinks
out, right? Yeah, it's like they kind of practice
they do this really precision formation landing
of four or five jets and they they come in low
over the field usually and they and they peel
off, and it's just exciting. So if anybody's
got the opportunity today to get up to Selfridge
Air Force Base, Air National Guard Base, excuse
me. And by the way, I was just so taken back
by the fact that we now have female fighter pilots.
Well, we've got female fighter pilots. We have
female helicopter pilots. In fact, even in the
New York Times last Sunday, I believe it was
a front -page story about women in Afghanistan
and Iraq and the jobs that they're doing over
there now. So it's pretty exciting. going to
be doing another show on women in the military
coming up in a couple of months. But I just wanted
to make sure that those of you out there that
have the opportunity, get up to Selfridge and
take in this air show. Remember, you're going
to be going onto a military base, so you will
not be able to bring on coolers and all types
of things like that. If you drive your car onto
the base, they're going to search it. Motorcyclists,
don't be wearing all your leathers necessarily,
because they're going to be looking at appropriate
attire. Yes, that's right. It's the military,
and they do these things. No backpacks. No backpacks,
no food. You can bring in a folding chair, but
you can't bring in the little bag that you carry
the chair in. There's all types of things, so
you want to check on that. And you may have to
do some walking because it's... Now, there is
one thing. Water will be provided. Right. That's
right. Not sodas, but water. Anything that you
bring in, you have to carry in your hands. Remember,
no glass or canned containers. Just be forewarned.
Anyway, should be a great time. It's right off
of M -59. You're going to be able to see it two
days, two shows. And for those of you that love
this type of stuff, I wanted to remind our audience
out west that they're going to be out in Hillsboro,
Oregon next weekend over Labor Day. They're going
to be in Cleveland, Ohio. On September 12th,
they're going to be out in Sacramento, California.
Then they go overseas to Hawaii and Seoul, Korea
at an unknown location, it said. And they'll
be back at Homestead Air Force Base, which I
believe is their home base, in November in Homestead,
Florida. For more information on the Thunderbirds,
go to Thunderbirds .Airforce .com. It's a great
show for you. Hopefully you'll get out to see
that. Coming up also here on Veterans Radio.
We've got a big show coming up of our own over
Labor Day weekend We're gonna be out at the Eastern
Michigan Army football game and We got a tailgate
and we're gonna be doing recording a program
out there on the fifth and we invite all Of you
to come out there to see us and to meet up with
your veterans It's it's a special program honoring
veterans at Eastern Michigan. They're gonna be
playing West Point the Michigan Chapter of the
West Point graduates association. I know that's
wrong But they're gonna be there and we're gonna
be there and we invite all of you you can get
Inexpensive tickets three bucks if you go on
to the Eastern Michigan website I think that's
important though that that they have to go to
the website to get the three dollar ticket right
don't come to the game and get the three dollar
ticket Right, they won't have any available there
for you. But you can call the ticket office or
you can go on to the Eastern Michigan University
website and go to their ticket office. Their
promotional code to use is VETRIN. VETRIN. And
you can get game tickets for three bucks. Or...
Or... Or or what or you can be one of the first?
100 that come to our site right there outside
right or some stadium Beginning at four o 'clock
on the fifth and the tickets will be complementary
We have a hundred complementary tickets right
now Well, they're probably a little bit less
than right now. Well, yes. But yeah, show up
at our tent. At 89. We're going to have a huge
tent. Let me tell you what's going on here. We're
going to have a huge tent set up there. There's
going to be food for 150 people. Hot dogs. Hot
dogs, hamburgers, all types of things, beverages.
There's going to be live music for you that we're
going to be providing. We're also going to be
playing a little bit of... or let's say World
War II, Vietnam era, current things. We invite
all current Iraq, Afghanistan veterans to please
come out. The American Legion, the VFW, the VVA
is going to be there. The Traumatic Brain Injury
Association is going to be there with materials
to hand out. So this is a great opportunity.
Between 4 and 7 on September 5th, and then we're
all going to the game. They're going to honor
veterans at halftime. The band's doing a great
show. And then they're going to have fireworks
at the end of the football game. So this is a
big, big deal. What a great day. And what time
is that game again? The game is at 7 o 'clock,
Ryan Airson Stadium in Ypsilanti, Michigan. and
we're going to be right outside the stadium and
it's going to be a great opportunity for you
to come and actually see how old we are. and
to talk with us and to answer questions because
we are going to be recording a show during that
time period. Bring your cameras. So bring your
cameras. You might want to take a shot. They
don't know. We are just a voice. We are just
a voice. That's right. But it's a great opportunity
and I'm very excited and Eastern Michigan has
gone out of its way to honor all veterans in
the area so we want you to make sure that you
get out there and get your opportunity to be
acknowledged. You men and women who have served
in the military, you did a great thing. And we
want to make sure that you are aware of what
you did for them. The other thing that I thought
was coming up, and I'll talk about this at the
end of the show, the USO, the Bob Hope Golf Outing
is coming up. And I'll talk about that at the
end of the program. But right now, Veterans Radio
has a tradition. Every show we have done for
almost six years now, we have been welcoming
home troops from around the world. And Bob? You're
on. Thank you, Dale. Welcome home. Each week
on Veterans Radio, we welcome home servicemen
and women who have been stationed around the
world in the service of their country and are
returning home. This is Bob Gould. Dateline,
Fort Hood, Texas. About 300 soldiers from the
Special Troops Battalion 2nd Infantry Division
are returning from a 12 -month deployment to
Afghanistan. Dateline, Cape May, New Jersey.
Some 650 soldiers touched down in Fort Dix this
morning after their recent one -year tour in
Iraq. They are part of a group of more than 2
,800 soldiers with the Army National Guard's
50th Infantry Brigade Combat Team. They were
sent to Iraq in the largest overseas deployment
of the New Jersey National Guard since World
War II. A parade ceremony and festive picnic
will honor the 79 -member Alpha Troop two 101
cavalry of the New York National Guard. They
returned after nearly a year in Afghanistan.
This followed the unit's 18th month tour. That
was in 2005 and 2007. Dateline, Humboldt, Wisconsin.
It was a welcome home celebration for more than
two dozen soldiers from the 353rd Transportation
Company. One soldier was heard to say, quote,
there's no place like home. I can tell you that.
It's just good to be home. Good to see the kids.
This is Bob Gould and welcome home. Each week
on Veterans Radio we do welcome home veterans
that are returning in World War II music. How
appropriate. What we're going to be talking about
today is the GI Bill. The New Deal for Veterans
is a new book that's been out and it's published
written by Glenn Altshuler and Stuart Blumen
and our guest on Veterans Radio is Glenn Altshuler
and let me tell you a little bit about Glenn
as soon as I find my notes. Here they go. Glenn
is the Thomas and Dorothy Litwin Professor of
American Studies and the Dean of the School of
Continuing Education and Summer Sessions at Cornell
University. He's also the author, and I thought
this was interesting, of All Shook Up, How Rock
and Roll Changed America, among other books.
And Glenn, I want to welcome you to Veterans
Radio. Good morning. Go ahead. Hello. Yes, hi,
you're on. Yes, it's a pleasure to be with you.
it's a pleasure to have you on the program and
i want to as i said to people i want to welcome
glenn to veterans radio and we're gonna be talking
about the g i don't know as i was listening to
that music that bob played at the intro here
i thought maybe we should go back and play some
revolutionary wars music because that's where
this whole idea of helping out veterans started
wasn't well there are in every war there has
been a discussion during and following that war
about uh... ways to reward of veterans, and in
the American Revolution, when money was scarce,
one way that was used was land grants to veterans.
And so Americans have appreciated the sacrifices
of their soldiers in every war, but the ways
in which they've rewarded those soldiers and
thanked them have varied dramatically from war
to war. I think it's going to be very interesting
for our audience today, Glenn, to talk about
the GI Bill and kind of the history of how we
have treated veterans over the time. I thought
that what I found most interesting was, as you
mentioned earlier, about the Revolutionary War
and up through the Civil War. So I wanted to
address those issues initially. During the Revolutionary
War, there was no draft. This was kind of an
initial all -volunteer army, wasn't it? Very
much so. And as you know, there's a great tradition
in America of opposition to standing armies.
And so for much of American history, there has
never been a draft, and we've relied on the voluntary
contributions of American citizens. Well, in
your book, you mentioned how long it took for
these Revolutionary War veterans to get a, for
lack of a better word, a pension. That it took
quite a while, didn't it? It did, and, you know,
coming out of the Revolutionary War, it was unclear
whether states should be responsible for rewarding
soldiers. There was a weak national government
originally. There were debates about who should
do what and in what way. The economy was a little
bit shaky, so indeed it did take some time. And
how did they fund this? Because you mentioned
a lot of figures in the book. We're talking with
Glenn Alshula. The book is called GI Bill, a
New Deal for Veterans. And we're trying to figure
out how they were going to fund these benefits.
And initially it was through tariffs, wasn't
it? Well, as you know, in early American history,
there were no income taxes. There were no sales
taxes. And tariffs were really the principal
mechanism in which revenues came into government.
And so how much did these veterans receive once
they started receiving some funds? Well, it really
varied quite considerably. And as I said, the
principal mechanism involved grants of land.
So we can't really put a dollar figure on it.
I also noticed again that you mentioned in your
text that they were talking about the grants
of land that many of the veterans would prefer
cash, so they sold them off. That's right. that
there was a fair amount of land speculation and
uh... you know as you know uh... i live in ithaca
new york and upstate new york was to no small
degree settled by revolutionary war soldiers
through some of those land grants and that's
one of many uh... areas that uh... saw a transformation
in the post -revolutionary war years right for
those of us out here in the midwest we know that
many of them came out here and also into ohio
in that area that's right and it's it's pretty
interesting so let's move forward and we go into
we've got uh... the war of eighteen twelve we
get into the mexican war were they able to provide
benefits for those veterans no significant benefits
coming out of uh... of those wars it's really
the civil war okay uh... that is the uh... significant
change and there of course uh... that's a war
of north against uh... so the the benefits uh...
so to speak uh... were obviously only for union
soldiers and they came in the form of pension
uh... initially to uh... our pensions to people
who had suffered some injury or wound but then
that was uh... defined so broadly that uh...
many many Civil War veterans got pensions and
ultimately their families Became beneficiaries
of some of those pensions as well in the post
-civil war period The tensions to civil war veterans
were the biggest expenditure by the federal government
Yeah, I was again reading in there. You were
talking about a percentage that the government
was paying out in these in these benefits to
not only the veterans but to their families or
widows and their children. That's right. It's
a large percentage of the federal budget. Yeah,
and remember, it's hard for us to remember now,
in those days the federal government's functions
were pretty small. So post office, armed forces,
not much more than that. So when you have a pension
plan, In that context, it becomes a significant
proportion of the federal budget. And it was
through the rest of the 19th century when Civil
War veterans and their families began to die
out of it. It just seems like it was an awful
lot of money. We're talking with Glenn Alshuler,
the author of the GI Bill and New Deal for Veterans,
and we encourage you to give us a call here at
Veterans Radio at 877 -573 -7825. The Grand Army
of the Republic seemed to be the political force
behind those pension plans, wasn't it? Yes, you
know, as you know, Dale, and of course this is
true today with a number of veterans' organizations.
The formation of veterans organizations to assist
veterans is a tradition in American history,
and the Grand Army of the Republic was a large
and powerful organization that lobbied the federal
government for the kinds of assistance that ultimately
these veterans got. I was thinking as we were
talking about these retirement plans and pensions
that came up there. Many civilians were not necessarily
in support of providing pensions to veterans
because they felt that the veterans should have
just, you know, they go off and they fight, but
then they go back to civilian life and, you know,
just go on with their lives. Yes, and some others,
Dale, saw that there was some corruption in the
system, that people were getting grants of money
that perhaps didn't deserve it. And this was
particularly true when the grants were tied to
injuries or wounds, and there was a thought that
people were essentially faking the evidence of
those wounds. I can only imagine the politics
of it, because we're coming up to World War I,
and this is where things really started to get
interesting. Because after World War I, again,
they still did not, they just gave them a mustering
out check, didn't they, initially? A mustering
out check initially and then a promise of a bonus,
but because the American economy was faffed immediately
after the end of World War I, that bonus would
not be paid until 1940. And so when the Depression
hit, many veterans said, and you can certainly
understand it, look, I can't wait until 1940.
for this bonus. I need this money now. And that
is the impetus for the famous bonus army that
marched to Washington DC in 1932 to try to pressure
President Hoover to grant those bonuses immediately.
President Hoover refused to meet with them. He
sent a young general by the name of Douglas MacArthur.
to clear them out of their tents in Anacostia
Flats right outside of Washington. And that certainly
did not endear Herbert Hoover to members of the
armed forces. No, and it's always interesting
when you find these names in history of MacArthur,
and I think MacArthur's assistant, you know,
was Eisenhower. That's right. And, you know,
that they actually pushing these veterans out
of there and... uh... there was some violence
it wasn't the army didn't get involved in this
evidently was the uh... washington dc police
that that got involved in that and it it's a
really interesting story though is it as to how
they the political trail that came out of world
war one because there were so many veterans that
came back uh... and i can't remember the exact
number it's not i don't have it in front of me
to you know to an economy that you know that
again you go from fighting to civilian life overnight
and you're trying to figure out how you're going
to fit back into the into society from from the
veterans standpoint and of course most civilians
that don't have a clue as to what you've gone
through and they just think well you know just
come back and go back to work veterans of world
war one provides the pressure to do a much better
job for veterans of world war two uh... you know
we all know that expression fighting the last
war the gi bill of nineteen forty four not only
fight the last war world war one but fight the
current war world war two with uh... probably
the most important piece of legislation of the
20th century. Well, we're going to get right
into that right now. We have about five minutes
to go before we get to the bottom of the hour.
We're talking with Glenn Altshuler, who is one
of the authors of the GI Bill, A New Deal for
Veterans. If you've got a question or a comment,
give us a call here locally at Veterans Radio
at 877 -573 -7825. All right, we've got World
War I is behind us. We've got Roosevelt is now
in the White House. And he is doing all sorts
of things with his new deals. And what happens?
How does this GI Bill get going? He was interested
as early really as 1942, 1943, to make sure that
veterans had a smooth transition to a peacetime
economy. And he was motivated by several, for
several reasons. One is there was a tremendous
fear that if you don't do something to assist
World War II veterans, you're going to have 16
million men and women plopped down on the economy
looking for jobs without adequate resources.
That might plunge the United States back into
a depression. So there was an economic impetus
for helping GIs. And of course, there was a bad
impetus that many of these guys and women had
interrupted their lives, had sacrificed for the
country, and at the very least, they should be
provided the opportunity that was available to
those who didn't go and serve in the armed forces.
Those two reasons converged. President Roosevelt,
Democrats, and Republicans came together. This
is a wonderful moment, Dale, of bipartisanship.
We don't hear a lot about bipartisanship in 2009,
but bipartisanship is certainly in evidence in
the GI Bill of 1944, which passes unanimously
and whose provisions are extraordinarily generous.
the most generous provisions for veterans in
the history of the United States. I think it's
amazing that Roosevelt was able to maneuver this
bill through the various factions that were out
there. And I know that the American Legion was
very instrumental in getting the GI Bill program
approved. Can you talk about a little bit of
their influence? The American Legion is responsible
for the shape of the bill and the really brilliant
idea of the American Legion was to put all of
the provisions that were being talked about together
in one piece of legislation. So this piece of
legislation not only has a provision for GIs
to go to college, sub -college training, unemployment,
housing, The possibility of purchasing a business
or farm. That's an extraordinary array of benefits.
The American Legion is also responsible for calling
the bill, the GI, the bill originally was called
for GI Joe and GI Jane, and for mobilizing support
for that legislation. The role of the American
Legion is critical in the passage of the bill.
There's no question about that. And I'm sure
that the other veteran service organizations
of the time got involved with that. And I think
it's just very interesting to think about. Again,
I'm so amazed how we got this through with the
different factions that were out there from conservatives.
to uh... liberals and there there was some restraint
that they didn't want to provide a bill for a
specific group of people because they'd already
had you know they finally got social security
passed in what nineteen thirty five i think five
yeah and you know one of the uh... one of the
irony i think for the g i feel is that the the
people who passed the bill and the american legion
really didn't think that the most important or
most costly provision in the bill would be the
higher education provision. And so since they
thought that maybe not all that many GIs would
go to college or university, they made the provisions
a little bit more generous because they didn't
think they would be budget busters. I think this
is a good place to take a break, and we're going
to come back and talk about the amazing effect
that the GI Bill had on our father's generation
when they came home from World War II. We're
talking with Glenn Altshuler, one of the authors
of the GI Bill, A New Deal for Veterans, and
we're going to be talking about that when we
come back. Give us a call, 877 -573 -7825. Tell
us how you used your GI Bill. We'll be right
back. You're listening to Veterans Radio. for
3 ,400 recipients of the nation's highest award.
This is one of them. Staff Sergeant Webster Anderson,
although wounded by three hand grenades, refused
medical treatment and continued to lead his men.
Details after this. During the early morning
hours, Battery A's defensive position was attacked
by a determined North Vietnamese Army infantry
unit. The initial enemy onslaught breached the
Battery defensive perimeter. Anderson mounted
the exposed parapet of his howitzer position
and became the mainstay of the defense of the
battery position. Anderson directed devastating
direct howitzer fire on the assaulting enemy
while providing rifle and grenade defensive fire
against enemy soldiers attempting to overrun
his gun section position. While protecting his
crew and directing their fire against the enemy
from his exposed position, two enemy grenades
exploded at his feet, knocking him down and severely
wounding him in the legs. Despite the excruciating
pain, and though not able to stand, Anderson
propped himself on the parapet and continued
to direct howitzer fire upon the closing enemy
and to encourage his men to fight on. Seeing
an enemy grenade land within the gun pit near
a wounded member of his gun crew, Anderson, heedless
of his own safety, seized the grenade and attempted
to throw it over the parapet to save his men.
As the grenade was thrown from the position it
exploded, and Anderson was again grievously wounded.
Although only partially conscious and severely
wounded Anderson refused medical evacuation and
continued to encourage his men on the defense
of the position Anderson by his inspirational
leadership was able to maintain the defense of
his section position and to defeat a Determined
attack the Medal of Honor series is a production
of veterans radio We're back on veterans radio
and as the music Leads us right into our discussion
of the GI Bill and New Deal for Veterans. We're
talking with author Glenn Altshuler, who is a
professor at Cornell University and also looks
like you did a really great book on rock and
roll. I have to check that one out too. I want
to give you all of our listeners out there an
opportunity to give us a call at 877 -573 -7825.
The Serviceman's Readjustment Act of 1944, better
known as the GI Bill, was signed by President
Roosevelt on June 22, 1944. Tell us what happened
as a result of that, Glenn. Well, there were
16 million veterans of World War II. And that's
an astonishing number of men and women. Right.
More than half of them used one or more provisions
of the GI Bill. And I don't think there's any
doubt that this legislation played a significant
role in the extraordinary prosperity of the United
States in the period of the late 1940s and through
of the 1950s. Probably most importantly, more
than two million veterans went to school on the
GI Bill. And what I want to emphasize, Dale,
is that this bill paid tuition up to $500 plus
living expenses for a veteran. And at that time,
the tuition at Harvard was $500. So there was
no college or university in America where the
GI Bill would not pay full tuition. That's extraordinary.
That is extraordinary. And it's not only the
colleges. And we know about, in our area here,
we're around University of Michigan, Eastern
Michigan University, and that the construction
boom that went along with this GI Bill to house
these students. There were many temporary quarters.
Here at Cornell, we talk about this in the book,
a lot of veterans were put up in quantum huts,
in temporary barracks, in reconverted hotels.
But also, of course, universities had to accommodate
these GIs with lab spaces, with classrooms, with
uh... more instructors and this bill not only
served these g -i -s but it did something else
that's vital it demonstrated to americans that
an ordinary guy or gal could make it in college
because the g -i -s did extraordinarily well
and it demonstrated at just the right time the
visibility of higher education and the importance
of higher education to make your way in American
society. So the ripple effect of the GI Bill
was felt for years and decades to come, not only
on the individual lives of these GIs, but on
people who are not GIs and on American society
in general. It's an extraordinary story. It truly
is, and as you were talking about, you know,
you teach at Cornell. In fact, right after the
passage of the GI Bill, I think it was Governor
Dewey didn't think that New York had enough colleges
and universities to provide room for their veterans
because they had such a large population of veterans
at the time that it kind of was the inspiration
for the New York public university system, wasn't
it? He initially pressed for uh... some new colleges
but to be found just to to uh... accommodate
all the g i who wanted to come and that initiative
is the origin of the public university system
all of that are followed so again the expansion
in higher education is uh... related in some
significant ways to the g i bill itself By the
way, Dale, there was a period of the late 1940s
where just about 50 % of all of the students
in institutions of American higher education
were GIs. That's pretty amazing. That's fantastic.
I mean, just the opportunity to go to school,
I think, for a lot of these men and women was
something that they never dreamed of. That's
right. And a lot of people said, well, they're
not going to do very well. They're going to need
special assistance. Quite the contrary. These
GIs were very serious students. They were very
successful students. And ultimately, they were
among hundreds of thousands of Americans who
became teachers and engineers and doctors. and
so as america moved from an industrial society
to a post -industrial society these gis provided
the human capital for that transition right and
i'm trying to find a quote i can't find it in
here right off the top of my head is i forget
who was it said that it uh... you know not intellectualized
but it made us become so much more aware of aware
of how much more knowledge is out there And that's
right. And I think you're referring to Peter
Drucker, the famous management guru. And Peter
Drucker asserted that the GI Bill, because it
provided the human capital for a knowledge society,
was the most important piece of legislation in
American history. No, I want to just look at
some of the numbers here that we got in one of
your press releases, and it talks as a result
of the GI Bill, the number of professionals in
the U .S. skyrocketed. 450 ,000 new engineers,
180 ,000 new doctors, dentists and nurses, 360
,000 teachers, 150 ,000 scientists, 243 ,000
astronauts, 107 ,000 lawyers, oh well. 36 ,000
clergymen who were able to join the workforce
because of the GI Bill. Some of the people that
have benefited that names that our audience might
recognize, Harry Belafonte, Charles Bronson,
Johnny Cash, Bill Cosby, Senator Dole, Senator
Graham, Gene Hackman, Joseph Heller. And the
list just goes on and on and on, including Chief
Supreme Court Justice William Rehnquist. All
of these people benefited from the GI Bill. And
it's not just the college part of the GI Bill
that people benefited from. I wanted you to go
into the non -traditional, I guess you could
say, trade type of schools at the end of the
world. Yeah, it was called sub -college training.
Right. And there were millions of people who...
who used the sub -college training and you know
some of it obviously was a little bit frivolous
you could go to bartending school but for many
people having the opportunity to be to get some
training to be a hairdresser uh... to get some
training to be remember the day when there was
such a thing as a television repairman all you
have a guy with a two box that's right uh...
uh... of those kinds of professions uh... uh...
people all wanted uh... to become uh... airline
pilot and uh... did some training of for that
some of it was just uh... uh... enrichment uh...
of their uh... lives so other college training
too provided an opportunity for a vocational
and avocational training, and many, many GIs
found out extraordinarily important. Remember,
at this time, you had many GIs who were not high
school graduates, and so having the opportunity
to do subcollege training was very important
to them. I was talking to a friend of mine, I
teach part time at a local community college,
and she was talking about the GED program that
was started up during World War II also. Yes,
and again, as you know, opportunities for people
in non -traditional ways to be able to graduate
from high school are another significant part
of our educational system now. Again, it's just
fascinating, and then I'm looking through the
pictures inside of this book, and I'm encouraging
people out there. The book is entitled, The GI
Bill, A New Deal for Veterans, and I'm talking
with one of the authors, Glenn Altshuler, and
give us a call. Tell us what you did with your
GI Bill at 877 -573 -7825. We talked about the
educational benefits of the GI Bill. What about
the housing benefits? The housing benefit was
also very important. because there was a government
guarantee of loans to purchase housing at a low
interest rate. I think it's at four percent.
Four percent. Many GIs were first -time homebuyers.
Young men, some instances, young women, about
two percent of the armed forces at that time
were women starting a family. And as many of
your listeners will remember, this is a period
of suburbanization. This is a period where people
are buying their first homes. And I've talked
to many, many GIs who said, that's how I did
it. Hearing about and knowing that this government
guarantee would be available allowed me to do
it. made it possible for me to do it. We're going
to continue talking with Glenn about the GI Bill,
not only the one from World War II, but the most
recent post -911 GI Bill when we come back after
this next break. We're talking about the GI Bill,
education, home ownership, lots of things. Give
us a call. You're listening to Veterans Radio.
We'll be right back after these short messages.
We're back on Veterans Radio. We're talking about
the GI Bill that was passed in 1944. And when
Johnny came marching home, not only could he
go to college, he could go to a trade school,
and he could also buy homes. And we're talking
with the author of the GI Bill, A New Deal for
Veterans, Glenn Alschuler. And I want you to
give us a call at 877 -573 -7825. And we actually,
Glenn, we want to hold on for a second. We do
have a call on the line. We've got Bob from Westland.
Bob, welcome to Veterans Radio. Hi, Bob. Hi.
How you doing? Good. Yes, I used the GI Bill,
went to Henry Ford Community College for seven
and a half years for an associate's degree in
heating and cooling. before the government actually
told me i had to leave and then i turned around
and use the g i built uh... by my first house
and i a by doing this uh... laid off uh... about
six years ago and use my heating and cooling
stuff to get my new job uh... what more did you
serve in uh... u .s. navy i'm retired after twenty
one years i was active duty in reserves That's
great. Well, you see, it works, folks. It works.
I went to school on the GI Bill. I bought my
first home on the GI Bill. Bob also bought his
first home on the GI Bill. We all utilize the
benefits. It was such a great way for us to get
our lives back after serving however long we
were in the service. It was a great program.
And I might say here, Dale, to you and to Bob
as well, that the provisions uh... changed with
each war with the korean war of vietnam war and
then in eighteen nineteen eighty five with the
montgomery bill uh... and uh... uh... full tuition
wasn't covered by those pieces of legislation
they were less generous than of the g i bill
of nineteen forty four but as both of you can
testify uh... they were nonetheless meaningful
to uh... to many veterans They were it was it
was a great opportunity. I mean, I was able to
go to sounds like Bob I went to a community college
for a year and then transferred to the University
of Michigan and my allowance was enough to for
me to pay all my tuition Had to dip into savings
for books and things but I was able to pay the
tuition. Yeah And that's everything when I went
there for seven and a half years That's true
thing. Thank you very much Bob for calling it
was great talking to you and thanks for listening
to veterans radio Thank you. Bye -bye. All right.
You mentioned, I was looking through your book,
Glenn, here and I was looking at the pictures
and not only was it the educational system, but
it brought up new economies. I'm looking at your
Vetsville or Vetsburg that was built up around
Cornell, but also Levittown for the people on
the East Coast. Yeah, Levittown is again part
of this phenomenon of suburbanization. inexpensive
houses in the suburbs. Many of the people who
bought their first homes in Levittown did it
on VA mortgages, no doubt about it. I just think
it is amazing. Let's kind of move forward. Were
there any other things about the GI Bill that
we should know about? Oh, the unemployment. The
unemployment was very important. Originally,
I think the The framers of the GI Bill thought
it would be the most important provision, and
indeed several million GIs used it for one period
of time. It was up to 52 weeks of unemployment
benefits at $20 a week. And for many GIs, it
was the transition from a demobilization to getting
that first job. It turned out happily that we
didn't go into a recession after world war two
and jobs were plentiful and so it was used perhaps
less than people feared but for g i think meant
a push on a what we now call a safety net right
so that while are they were looking for those
jobs uh... are they uh... were able to pay the
bill and i'd like to hear dale as well that uh...
have paid back in increased taxes many, many
times over the amount of money that they got
from Uncle Sam, whether they were using their
higher education benefit or 5220 or any of these
other benefits. This is an example of a government
program that is not only the gift that keeps
on giving, but one in which the government gets
back. That's a pretty extraordinary piece of
legislation. That certainly is. And we were talking
earlier about how the GI Bill has evolved over
time. And each conflict had its own version or
change to it, as you mentioned. Some of the benefits
were a little bit lower. I've got a call for
you again. I've got a call here. I've got John
from Bay City. Thanks for calling Veterans Radio.
You have a comment? Hi, John. Good morning, brothers.
I served from 1966 to 1970. I was a member of
the 14th Armored Cavalry, and our mission was
to patrol the East German border at the folder
gap. And I must say, man, that the benefits brought
forth to those that have served, the impact that
it had on my life was awesome. I went to college,
night school, business school. Then I went to
Wilmington College. So it afforded me my advertising
career in the newspaper. We could never do too
much for the men and women that serve this great
country. So I appreciate the efforts of this
station. Because when we came home, regardless
of what part of the world we were in, the reception
we got was not the reception we deserved. But
we don't live in that past. We thank God for...
this country and the opportunity to serve. Thank
you. That's very much. Thank you, John. Yes,
we all do keep moving forward and we always make
sure that we protect each other's back. Thanks,
John, for calling. We'll be talking again. Thank
you very much. Bye -bye. Bye -bye. Let's talk
a little bit about the, as we move forward, as
I said, about the different benefits out there.
I want to talk right now about the newest GI
bill, the post -9 -9 -11 bill. Can you tell us
a little bit about that? Yes, this was passed
in 2008. It tends to be associated with the name
of Senator James Webb from Virginia, but it too
had bipartisan support. It's more generous in
its provisions than were the bills for Korean
War veterans and Vietnam War veterans, not quite
as generous as the World War II, the iconic World
War II bill. But it provides a tuition up to
the most expensive public university in the state
of a veteran. Or if that veteran wants to go
to a private institution, he or she can apply
that amount of money allocated to the public
institution to the private institution and make
up the difference. There is also a housing stipend.
There's a stipend for books. And there's a stipend
for tutors. Wow. And there is, Dale, a new and
very imaginative provision. For those service
personnel who've served for six years and who
re -up for another four years, the benefit, the
higher education benefit, can be transferred
to a spouse or children. That's the first time
in American history that that that's happened
even in World War two where the provisions were
so generous War widows came to Congress and said
look our husbands died How about transferring
the higher education provision to us and Congress
said no? Mm -hmm in 2008 Congress had said yes
to those who serve six years and sign up for
another four Well, I also know that, and I'm
encouraging everybody out there that's interested
in this, you can go to the VA website, VA .gov,
and you can look under the new GI Bill, and there's
a program in there that, and I wrote it down
here, some of the Yellow Ribbon Program, and
there are many schools across the country that
will make up the difference. Yes. between what
you are allocated for the highest public university
in your state, if you go to a private school,
many of them will make up the difference. And
there's a whole list of schools in there for
you. That is indeed the case. And other institutions
will work with veterans. And so it's worth your
while to contact an institution. If you're able
to be admitted to that institution, there's at
least a reasonable chance that They're going
to work with you to make sure that money is not
the barrier. Boy, I just think it's great. I've
had the privilege of having many Iraq and Afghanistan
veterans in my classes, and I know it's even
going to grow bigger. Glenn, we're running up
to the end of the hour, and it's been a great
conversation. I want to thank you so very much
for being on Veterans Radio. This is Glenn Altshuler,
who was one of the authors of the GI Bill, A
New Deal for Veterans. And where can they get
their book? uh... you can you can get it on Amazon
uh... it's uh... uh... the G .I. bill a new deal
for veterans you can get it from Oxford University
Press you can get it from your local bookstore
this was a great honor as well as a joy to write
this book and I think veterans will really enjoy
it I think they will too and Glenn thank you
so very much for doing that and for being on
veterans radio and I gotta get you back on a
program to talk about rock and roll I'd be delighted
to do it Dale thanks very much Pleasure to talk
to you. Thank you. We'll talk to you again. All
right, another show. We're almost out of time.
Make sure to tune in next week. We're going to
be talking with some people from the Military
Writers Society of America and a great story
of a World War II veteran. Until then, you are
dismissed. The opinions or views expressed in
this program are not necessarily a Veterans Radio
or the station. Veterans Radio is a production
of Veterans Radio LLC.