WEBVTT

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From the studios of Ave Maria Radio in Ann Arbor,

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this is Veterans Radio. And now here's your host,

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Dale Throneberry. Good morning and welcome to

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veterans radio on this beautiful Saturday morning

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here in Ann Arbor, Michigan and coming from the

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wonderful studios of Abbey Maria radio I want

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to welcome everybody to our program where we've

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got a special issue that we're gonna be Approaching

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today. It's called stolen valor and this is where

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we're going to be talking about veteran wannabes

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out there people who for whatever reason in the

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world Feel that they need to claim that they

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are veterans and we're gonna be exposing a few

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of them out there and I want to welcome everybody

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into the studio with me today is I'm Gary Lilly.

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Good morning, Gary. Good morning, Dale. And our

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technical crew in the back room there is Bob

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Gould. Airborne. And Ken Rogge and Kara. I haven't

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met Kara before. Thank you. Welcome for being

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on our program this morning. As I mentioned,

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we've got a couple of guests that are lined up.

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Hopefully they will call in and we'll see how

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that goes. But first of all, we're going to go

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to the news. And Gary, you're on. National Guard

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and Army Reserve soldiers will mobilize and deploy

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for only one year. Despite a new policy that

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soldiers will deploy for 15 -month tours, a top

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defense official stressed Friday, Thomas Hall,

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Assistant Defense Secretary for Reserve Affairs,

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reaffirmed that reserve component soldiers are

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not affected by the 15 -month tour policy that

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Defense Secretary Robert Gates announced. Mr.

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Gates mandated reserve components would mobilize

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for one year and then have five years before

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another mobilization. And the DOD policy shift

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has cut disability retirements. Injured war veterans

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of Iraq and Afghanistan are becoming more aware

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of the critical 30 % threshold. Retired Army

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Lieutenant General James Terry Scott, Chairman

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of the Veterans Disability Benefits Commission,

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spotlighted the value of 30 % ratings and ruffled

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feathers of DOD officials before a Senate hearing

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last week when he said the higher cost of disability

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retirement plus severance pay gives DOD a strong

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incentive to award 20 % or less. No service does

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it more often than the Army, according to fresh

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service data released by Scott. From 2000 through

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2006, the Army gave ratings of 30 % or higher

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to only 13 % of soldiers deemed disabled. By

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comparison, the Navy awarded disability retirement

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to 36 % of its disabled members. The Air Force

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number was 27, and the Marine Corps's 18%. More

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troubling, Scott suggested, was data showing

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Army awarded a 0 % rating to 13 ,646 sailors

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that it found unfit for duty. The Navy, Marine

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Corps, and Air Force had assigned zero ratings

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only to 400 apiece. And Destination R &R, a retreat

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for wounded service members and their families,

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is now accepting applications for a free family

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getaway. Destination R &R was created to honor

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the sacrifice of wounded service members and

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their families and to provide them with the opportunity

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to rejuvenate and have fun. The first Destination

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R &R retreat will be held this summer from August

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5th to 9th at the Turf Valley Resort near Baltimore,

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Maryland. It will focus on fun for all ages and

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enable sharing, connecting, and healing for families.

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That must be applied on air. are on the line

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at www .nmfa .org slash destination rr and we

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will put it on our website I'll remember that

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one can we go back to that other story you were

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talking about the disability the 30 % certainly

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and I and there's another article I know that

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you were going to talk about where the president

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has has ordered or asked, requested the VA and

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the DOD to get together and come up with a common

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definition of what disability is because that's

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one of the problems that's going on out there.

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Indeed. Is that the DOD is giving them one disability

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and then they end up having to go through the

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VA system and you know two or three years later

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they end up getting bumped up to the 20 or 30

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percent or over that 30 percent threshold. In

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fact the president has ordered the Defense and

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Veterans Affairs Department to carry out the

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key recommendations from an interagency task

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force, including developing a common disability

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rating, as you said, system that would make it

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easier for combat veterans to receive benefits.

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And how can anybody try to cut benefits on combat

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wounded veterans? I don't know, because I was

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reading a story about that, and they were talking

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about some of these guys, men and women, that

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were coming back with serious wounds, and they

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were getting, you know, just 10 percent or 20

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percent, and it just... You can't keep my comments

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to myself on some of these things, but you out

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there, if you have a comment you want to give

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us, let us know what you think about things.

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We'll be talking to you later on in the program.

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My personal story on that is when I applied for

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compensation for Agent Orange, we got sprayed

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with it. I was told that I didn't complain about

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it while I was in the military. That was their

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official response. I'm sorry that my fingers

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weren't falling off at the time. In Colorado,

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they're going to have a new license plate to

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support the troops. 93 % of the proceeds from

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the new $25 vehicle tag will go directly to support

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Colorado military members and their families.

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This will include active duty members, National

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Guard and Reserve soldiers, as well as veterans

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and non -profit organizations working to support

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the military. The plate is set for release July

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1st, and you folks in Colorado, advance orders

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are currently being taken. Okay, we need to move

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along to our Welcome Home segment, and Gary,

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you get to do that too. Thank you, Dale. Each

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week on Veterans Radio, we welcome home servicemen

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and women who have been stationed around the

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world in the service of our country. A Welcome

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Home Warrior Citizen Awards ceremony was held

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on Sunday, April 22nd. at First Lieutenant David

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R. Wilson Armed Forces Reserve Center in Florida

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for 50 unsung heroes. Soldiers from the Florida

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Air National Guard 202nd Red Horse Squadron returned

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home to Jacksonville, Florida on Sunday, April

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22nd. Hundreds of family members and friends

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greeted about 500 soldiers from the 102nd Infantry.

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Battalion of New Haven, Connecticut on Saturday,

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April 21st at the Army Aviation Support Facility

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in Windsor Locks, Connecticut. Barbara Jimenez,

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mother of Lance Corporal John T. Schmidt III,

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wanted returning troops to have a proper welcome

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home ceremony in honor of her son. He died from

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toxic fume inhalations in Iraq in January 2005.

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She contacted Governor M. Jody Rell about her

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wish to welcome home troops. In a few weeks,

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a large welcome home banner will be displayed

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at Bradley Airport. Wyoming National Guard members

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received a spectacular city -wide welcome home

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celebration in Gillette, Wyoming on Saturday,

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April 21. Welcome Home is sponsored by the Marine

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Scholars Program of Ave Maria University. Visit

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them online at avemaria .edu or call Aaron Flaherty,

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Assistant Director of Admissions at 239 -280

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-2552. Welcome Home to all. We'll be right back

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after these messages. And we're back on Veterans

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Radio and my name is Dale Throneberry and joining

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me in the studio again today is Gary Lilly Good

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morning to all. Yep, and we're gonna be talking

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about wannabes and we all know what wannabes

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are and these are people that pretend that they

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were in the military or if they were in the military

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that they They did things More than they really

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did so I want to get your comments out there

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to our listeners audience And if you have a story

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of somebody that you feel was a wannabe give

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us a call toll free at eight seven seven five

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seven three seven eight two five again, that's

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eight seven seven five seven three seven eight

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two five and Joining me on a line right now.

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Hopefully is Doug and Pat sterner and are you

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there? Yeah, we're out here, and you are in Colorado

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is that correct? That's correct. I want to welcome

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you to Veterans Radio. Well, thank you, Dale.

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It's good to be here. And Doug, tell me a little

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bit about your organization that you have that

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searches out these evildoers. Well, actually,

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I don't search them out. My thing is to highlight

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the stories of the true heroes. Unfortunately,

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in the process of that, the phonies show up.

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I began a website several years ago to detail

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the heroism of our nation's decorated war heroes,

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and quite frequently I would get emails from

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people saying, you know, why isn't my husband

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listed in your site? He got the Medal of Honor

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in Korea, or I know Uncle Joe got the Distinguished

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Service Cross. I've seen the citation, and they

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were not in my database. And so once I became

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aware of them, I felt that I had an obligation

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to deal with the imposters. And so, while it

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was not my primary issue to go after imposters,

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it wound up becoming very much that as a matter

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of necessity. Well, I know that your wife got

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involved in this and actually did a paper on

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the stolen -vowel issue. Pam, are you there?

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Well, I can put her on. We've got one line here,

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but I can put her on when you want to talk to

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her. I was wondering how she got involved in

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the Stolen Valor Act. Well, she had seen my own

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frustration in dealing with this, and I worked

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very closely with FBI agent Tom Katone on the

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prosecution or investigation for prosecution

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of many of these individuals. So she knew Tom

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personally, and of course she knows me personally.

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Good thing. She never sees me because I'm always

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at the computer. And she knew our frustration

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in being able to go after some of these people.

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Under the current code at that time, it was illegal

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to wear any metal that you did not earn. But

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for example, I showed her a newspaper. Someone

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sent me a guy in Arizona holding up a plaque

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full of his medals, his silver stars, and his

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purple hearts, and this, that, and the other

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thing. It was on the front page of his hometown

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paper. for a veteran's day story, we couldn't

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prosecute him because he wasn't wearing the medal.

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He was holding it in his hand. And so, seeing

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my own frustration at that, she was a student

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at Colorado State University, majoring in political

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science, and in her class, she was told to write

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a paper for an assignment, and she did a paper

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on this. Oh, okay. We know that there are many

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wannabes that are out there. I want to pick your

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brain a little bit here, but can you think of

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the most outrageous one recently that you've

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heard about? Well, it depends on what you mean

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outrageous, whether you're talking about what

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I consider to be the worst or what I consider

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to be the most flagrant. Well, let's go with

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the most flagrant right now. The most flagrant

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was the guy that we nailed last summer up in

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Illinois. We got pictures of him attending the

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Marine Corps ball wearing the Navy Cross, multiple

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silver stars, multiple bronze stars, multiple

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legions of merit, and eight purple hearts, Marine

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Corps uniform with eagles on it. And first of

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all, it caught my attention because no Marine

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has ever received eight purple hearts. And this

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guy had never even been in the military. Was

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this the one in St. Louis? No, you're talking

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about Wielbacher. He wasn't wearing quite as

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many. He was a big 400 -pound guy that was wearing

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the Navy Cross and multiple other awards that

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had also never been in the military. What about

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the other one? That was the most flagrant. Did

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it also include the worst? No, the worst in my

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opinion. If somebody wants to look him up, they

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can look him up because he's still telling his

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lies on the Internet. He is a guy that we've

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got out in California, and it's the worst because

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this man is a legitimate veteran. He's a two

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-tier Vietnam veteran. He served in Special Forces

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and also as a helicopter pilot and earned a Silver

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Star. He now attends functions in California

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wearing a Lieutenant Colonel rank, even though

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he got out as a captain, wearing the Distinguished

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Service Cross, two Silver Stars, the Soldier's

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Medal, and other awards that we've documented

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he didn't earn. He uses this to promote a book

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and to me it's the worst because this is a true

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Vietnam veteran who could justifiably be proud

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of what he did do and then he turns around and

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he takes it to extreme and you know that really

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bothers me because he should just be proud of

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what he did. Well, I totally agree with that.

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I think one of the things that we have found

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in doing our veterans radio over the last couple

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of years is that most of the veterans that we

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do talk to are humble, you know, and you've got

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to pull and pry to get their stories out of them

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in most cases. This is Gary. I was interviewed

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by a college senior one time for a paper he was

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writing and I kept I mentioned to him about the

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way that you can tell a real Vietnam bet is they

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typically start off with I was only and Right

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after he wrote or did the interview I got a an

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email from a POW who said I was only a POW for

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11 months I didn't put in the years that the

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other guys did and I didn't realize I'd made

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such a point of it, but the whole The title of

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the paper was, I was only. And it talked about

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the Vietnam vets and how they say so often in

00:14:40.139 --> 00:14:43.679
their introductory, I was only. There was a,

00:14:44.419 --> 00:14:48.100
I remember talking about the qualifications for

00:14:48.100 --> 00:14:50.820
Vietnam Veterans of America hearing helicopter

00:14:50.820 --> 00:14:54.039
pilots say, well, I was only a helicopter pilot.

00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:57.419
I wasn't down on the ground like. The other guys

00:14:57.419 --> 00:15:00.399
or and one guy said well, I was only there for

00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:03.360
two weeks or three weeks He's got wounded and

00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:06.639
spent the next nine months in a hospital in Japan

00:15:06.639 --> 00:15:08.720
These are guys saying that they didn't think

00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:10.879
they qualified to belong to Vietnam veterans

00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:14.600
of America because I was only And I found that

00:15:14.600 --> 00:15:17.120
to be pretty true tying in with what you said

00:15:17.120 --> 00:15:20.259
Dale about being humble Well, there's no I mean,

00:15:20.259 --> 00:15:23.220
you know most of us that I've that I've met again

00:15:23.220 --> 00:15:24.919
at this as we go along You know that they just

00:15:24.919 --> 00:15:29.389
don't flaunt it We like the silent generation

00:15:29.389 --> 00:15:31.649
or the greatest generation. Most of us came home

00:15:31.649 --> 00:15:33.950
and we just did our job and went on with our

00:15:33.950 --> 00:15:36.750
lives. It's just that when some people started

00:15:36.750 --> 00:15:38.769
attacking us at some point along the way that

00:15:38.769 --> 00:15:41.250
we decided that we needed to fight back and tell

00:15:41.250 --> 00:15:44.370
the true stories. I'm sorry that we don't have

00:15:44.370 --> 00:15:46.529
B .G. Burgett on today. He was the one who wrote

00:15:46.529 --> 00:15:50.009
the original Stolen Valor book that kind of got

00:15:50.009 --> 00:15:52.409
everybody, I think a lot of people, on a roll.

00:15:53.019 --> 00:15:55.320
to look out and find these people that were out

00:15:55.320 --> 00:15:58.519
there. What about websites? Are there websites

00:15:58.519 --> 00:16:01.360
people can go to to find out if somebody really

00:16:01.360 --> 00:16:04.779
was in special forces or really was a POW? Are

00:16:04.779 --> 00:16:08.820
there wannabe lists posted on the internet? Well,

00:16:08.860 --> 00:16:11.299
and that's the problem that we've got. You can

00:16:11.299 --> 00:16:14.779
find some of the websites that will list the

00:16:14.779 --> 00:16:18.759
wannabes when we find them, such as the POW network

00:16:18.759 --> 00:16:25.299
at pownetwork .org. The bottom line is, the United

00:16:25.299 --> 00:16:27.860
States has done a very poor job of keeping the

00:16:27.860 --> 00:16:31.480
history of our heroes. There have been 191 Air

00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:36.539
Force Crosses awarded in history, only 191. And

00:16:36.539 --> 00:16:40.200
when we would get an Air Force Cross imposter,

00:16:40.220 --> 00:16:42.419
and I would turn it over to Tom Catone with the

00:16:42.419 --> 00:16:46.480
FBI, and Tom would go to the Air Force and say,

00:16:46.659 --> 00:16:50.200
can you verify that this man is or is not a legitimate

00:16:50.539 --> 00:16:53.320
Air Force Cross recipient, it would take the

00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:55.820
Air Force two weeks to figure out if he was one

00:16:55.820 --> 00:16:59.879
of the 191 individuals that had got the Air Force

00:16:59.879 --> 00:17:02.980
Cross. That's how bad the record -keeping has

00:17:02.980 --> 00:17:07.099
been. I've spent the last five years developing

00:17:07.099 --> 00:17:10.700
a database of the Navy Cross, Air Force Cross,

00:17:10.759 --> 00:17:14.180
and Distinguished Service Cross. There is no

00:17:14.180 --> 00:17:17.740
official list of the recipients of these awards,

00:17:17.740 --> 00:17:20.609
and the tragedy of this is You know, we talk

00:17:20.609 --> 00:17:22.650
a lot about the Medal of Honor, but the Distinguished

00:17:22.650 --> 00:17:25.509
Service Cross, Navy Cross, you know, those ain't

00:17:25.509 --> 00:17:27.210
chicken feed, if you understand what I'm saying.

00:17:27.349 --> 00:17:30.309
I mean, George Patton said, I'd rather be a lieutenant

00:17:30.309 --> 00:17:32.509
with a Distinguished Service Cross, and in general,

00:17:32.750 --> 00:17:37.069
without one, fewer than 15 ,000 awarded in history.

00:17:37.650 --> 00:17:41.390
And the United States Army has no official list

00:17:41.390 --> 00:17:45.420
of those 15 ,000 recipients. That's amazing.

00:17:45.420 --> 00:17:47.359
So it's very hard to check them out. You know,

00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:49.339
I understand that we're talking with Doug sterner

00:17:49.339 --> 00:17:51.599
who with his wife Pam were very instrumental

00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:55.500
in getting the Stolen Valor Act Passed and just

00:17:55.500 --> 00:17:58.480
in December to make it against the law. Did they

00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:02.440
make that a felony? Well, it's a high misdemeanor

00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:05.700
felony is anything it calls for one year and

00:18:05.700 --> 00:18:08.680
a day, which is why sometimes You'll hear a judge

00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:11.759
sent somebody to one year and a day then it's

00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:16.059
a felony so It didn't bump it up to a felony.

00:18:16.380 --> 00:18:20.460
It's one year, but it's a very, very high misdemeanor.

00:18:20.980 --> 00:18:23.700
Did you have any reaction to that movie, The

00:18:23.700 --> 00:18:26.819
Wedding Crashers, in which they showed the purple

00:18:26.819 --> 00:18:29.440
hearts and they were trying to impress the ladies,

00:18:29.579 --> 00:18:33.259
the two rogues in that movie? Well, we owe a

00:18:33.259 --> 00:18:37.480
lot to The Wedding Crashers movie. When the movie

00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:41.079
came out, it just happened by coincidence that

00:18:41.079 --> 00:18:44.009
it was the same week. that we were introducing

00:18:44.009 --> 00:18:46.549
the Stolen Valor Act. We had a press conference

00:18:46.549 --> 00:18:50.549
the same week that Wedding Crashers came out.

00:18:51.650 --> 00:18:54.049
And the media picked up on this as though it

00:18:54.049 --> 00:18:57.009
was a congressman reacting to Wedding Crashers,

00:18:57.250 --> 00:19:00.789
when in fact, Pam had written a bill more than

00:19:00.789 --> 00:19:03.170
a year before that happened. And we had been

00:19:03.170 --> 00:19:06.529
in discussions with Congressman Salazar on this

00:19:06.529 --> 00:19:09.470
for six months. But because the media picked

00:19:09.470 --> 00:19:12.480
up on that tie, They covered it extensively.

00:19:12.559 --> 00:19:16.420
We got a lot of publicity. And so, actually,

00:19:16.460 --> 00:19:18.460
when they put that in the movie, they did us

00:19:18.460 --> 00:19:21.700
a big favor. And I think it was a large part

00:19:21.700 --> 00:19:25.259
of how we got the bill passed. I know the effect

00:19:25.259 --> 00:19:27.140
of when that movie did come out. They finally

00:19:27.140 --> 00:19:29.500
did go back in and remove that scene from their

00:19:29.500 --> 00:19:33.420
trailer, at least. You know, people respond.

00:19:33.700 --> 00:19:37.160
Businesses will respond. Yeah. And what they

00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:40.180
did do, they removed the online print your own

00:19:40.180 --> 00:19:45.559
Purple Heart thing, which was very tacky. Yes,

00:19:45.559 --> 00:19:52.660
to say the least. How difficult was it to get

00:19:52.660 --> 00:19:58.799
this act into the hopper in Congress? Well, you've

00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:01.539
heard the phrase, it takes an act of Congress.

00:20:05.280 --> 00:20:07.740
Everybody told us going in there was no way,

00:20:08.019 --> 00:20:10.079
no way that it would happen. I'm the ultimate

00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:13.839
idealist as is my wife. It was introduced by

00:20:13.839 --> 00:20:18.039
a freshman congressman in the minority. And we

00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:21.740
did not realize that we were battling a partisanship

00:20:21.740 --> 00:20:26.259
that was, that is very, very intense on both

00:20:26.259 --> 00:20:29.299
sides. And we found out later there's kind of

00:20:29.299 --> 00:20:32.339
an unwritten rule in Congress that a freshman

00:20:32.339 --> 00:20:36.500
doesn't pass any kind of major bills. And so

00:20:36.500 --> 00:20:40.359
it took quite a bit. Now, I understand that the

00:20:40.359 --> 00:20:42.319
congressman that you're talking about is Congressman

00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:47.259
Salazar, John Salazar? Yes. A Colorado Democrat,

00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:50.519
I believe, isn't he? Yes, he's a Colorado Democrat.

00:20:51.059 --> 00:20:54.440
My wife and I, for what it's worth, are lifetime

00:20:54.440 --> 00:20:57.519
Republicans. After Pam wrote the bill, she offered

00:20:57.519 --> 00:21:01.259
it to a Republican congressman, and he wasn't

00:21:01.259 --> 00:21:04.279
interested. And then John Salazar called us.

00:21:04.279 --> 00:21:06.180
He said, I've heard about this. I'd like to meet

00:21:06.180 --> 00:21:08.559
with you. And we met with him. And I think it

00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:10.779
was quite appropriate. And I know that when Roll

00:21:10.779 --> 00:21:14.240
Call did a story on my wife, they pointed out

00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:18.839
this is the way our nation should work. Democrats

00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:21.640
and Republicans pulling together because this

00:21:21.640 --> 00:21:24.779
is not a red or a blue issue. This is a red,

00:21:24.859 --> 00:21:27.730
white, and blue issue. Oh, absolutely. I never

00:21:27.730 --> 00:21:30.309
quite understand when partisan politics jumps

00:21:30.309 --> 00:21:34.190
into certain issues, such as this. And I noticed

00:21:34.190 --> 00:21:36.910
that Congressman Salazar was a veteran himself.

00:21:38.089 --> 00:21:41.609
Yes, he was a Vietnam -era veteran. He served

00:21:41.609 --> 00:21:45.529
in the Army late in the Vietnam War. He never

00:21:45.529 --> 00:21:47.849
got a chance to serve in the Vietnam Theater

00:21:47.849 --> 00:21:51.269
of Combat, but he was ready and willing to go.

00:21:51.529 --> 00:21:53.869
And they sent him there. I love your choice of

00:21:53.869 --> 00:21:55.890
words there. I've heard that before. I never

00:21:55.890 --> 00:21:59.630
got a chance to go. And you talk with regular

00:21:59.630 --> 00:22:00.789
civilians and they're going, what do you mean

00:22:00.789 --> 00:22:04.269
you never had a chance to go? Unfortunately,

00:22:04.849 --> 00:22:09.089
Dale and I had the chance. Well, I wouldn't trade

00:22:09.089 --> 00:22:11.849
that opportunity for anything in the world. No.

00:22:12.150 --> 00:22:15.079
Proudest thing I ever did in my life. It was

00:22:15.079 --> 00:22:18.480
amazing. Well, I wanted to, we're coming up,

00:22:18.700 --> 00:22:20.440
we've got about five minutes to go into this

00:22:20.440 --> 00:22:22.500
segment of the program. For those of you out

00:22:22.500 --> 00:22:24.079
there listening who would like to comment or

00:22:24.079 --> 00:22:28.960
give us a call at 877 -573 -7825. We're talking

00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:32.240
about stolen valor. uh... how military people

00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:34.140
are really really can lot of them are being cheated

00:22:34.140 --> 00:22:36.339
of their uh... heroes we are being cheated of

00:22:36.339 --> 00:22:38.539
our heroes in our history because we've got pretend

00:22:38.539 --> 00:22:40.640
people out there i just wanted to read about

00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:43.920
one guy and and uh... you can you can comment

00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:46.359
maybe this is the same when this is a judge michael

00:22:46.359 --> 00:22:51.299
o 'brien in illinois Illinois District Judge

00:22:51.299 --> 00:22:53.500
Michael O 'Brien displayed two Medal of Honors

00:22:53.500 --> 00:22:56.079
in a frame on the wall of his courtroom. Everybody

00:22:56.079 --> 00:22:58.460
in his city believed the judge was not only an

00:22:58.460 --> 00:23:00.500
honorable man, but one of America's greatest

00:23:00.500 --> 00:23:02.799
heroes. O 'Brien's fraud was discovered when

00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:05.240
he tried to apply for a It's the special, you

00:23:05.240 --> 00:23:07.920
know, the Medal of Honor license plate for his

00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:10.160
vehicle. Illinois provides valid Medal of Honor

00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:13.500
recipients with distinctive plates. He had to

00:23:13.500 --> 00:23:15.779
present his, where did he go? Yeah, I lost it.

00:23:16.099 --> 00:23:17.880
Judge O 'Brien applied for his plate himself.

00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:19.799
Someone at the Department of Motor Vehicles happened

00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:22.299
to contact a true recipient and learned that

00:23:22.299 --> 00:23:25.799
O 'Brien was a fraud. O 'Brien's lies were subsequently

00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:29.789
exposed, but he avoided prosecution. It was,

00:23:30.029 --> 00:23:31.990
hopefully this has changed, while it was against

00:23:31.990 --> 00:23:34.089
the law to manufacture, wear, sell, or trade

00:23:34.089 --> 00:23:35.809
the Medal of Honor, it is not a criminal offense

00:23:35.809 --> 00:23:39.250
to possess one or display one on your wall. And

00:23:39.250 --> 00:23:41.109
in fact, they can be bought online, can they

00:23:41.109 --> 00:23:43.490
not? Am I mistaken about that? Haven't I seen

00:23:43.490 --> 00:23:45.410
them? I don't know if you can do it any longer.

00:23:45.890 --> 00:23:49.569
And in reality, there's only about 170 living

00:23:49.569 --> 00:23:52.670
Medal of Honor recipients out there. 100 can.

00:23:53.690 --> 00:23:56.450
And see, Judge Michael O 'Brien was one of the

00:23:56.450 --> 00:24:00.589
examples that really got Pam moving on this.

00:24:00.630 --> 00:24:02.329
And I can put her on any time you want to talk

00:24:02.329 --> 00:24:05.410
to her. But, you know, he could not be prosecuted

00:24:05.410 --> 00:24:08.109
because those medals of honor were hanging on

00:24:08.109 --> 00:24:13.089
his wall. He wasn't wearing them. Under today's

00:24:13.089 --> 00:24:16.390
law, since December 20 of last year, he would

00:24:16.390 --> 00:24:20.289
be prosecutable. Okay, I also see here that we

00:24:20.289 --> 00:24:22.730
have this famous Lawrence Hammer of Florida.

00:24:23.079 --> 00:24:25.680
who claimed to be a former Navy SEAL who won

00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:27.319
the Medal of Honor for being shot. I didn't know

00:24:27.319 --> 00:24:29.000
he got a Medal of Honor for being shot. But anyway,

00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:31.700
he was shot twice in Vietnam. And not only did

00:24:31.700 --> 00:24:33.779
he use his claims and falsified records to gain

00:24:33.779 --> 00:24:35.799
employment, he also went on to con money out

00:24:35.799 --> 00:24:39.140
of a widow that he met at a VA medical center.

00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:44.660
And we couldn't touch him. It was just stories

00:24:44.660 --> 00:24:49.819
he was telling. You can't prosecute somebody

00:24:49.819 --> 00:24:54.789
for telling a lie. run into the wannabes and

00:24:54.789 --> 00:24:58.769
I ran into one asking for help years ago here

00:24:58.769 --> 00:25:01.210
in Ann Arbor. He'd come up from Florida and I

00:25:01.210 --> 00:25:03.190
ended up talking to people in Florida saying,

00:25:03.430 --> 00:25:05.710
oh is he up there doing it now? Now this guy

00:25:05.710 --> 00:25:10.970
was claimed to be a POW, had an open brain injury

00:25:10.970 --> 00:25:15.559
and was operated on by in Laos by the enemy,

00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:18.140
now the path at Laos. The people I've talked

00:25:18.140 --> 00:25:20.240
to that flew over Laos or operated in there,

00:25:20.420 --> 00:25:22.619
they always, they said, they were told, you know,

00:25:22.759 --> 00:25:25.059
save a bullet for yourself, do not allow yourself

00:25:25.059 --> 00:25:29.480
to be captured. And yet this guy had open head

00:25:29.480 --> 00:25:32.900
injury operation in the jungles of Laos by the

00:25:32.900 --> 00:25:36.200
path at Laos. And I just, you know, I thought,

00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:39.839
well, how brazen can you get and how stupid can

00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:42.539
you get? Well, one of the stories that is pointed

00:25:42.539 --> 00:25:44.579
out in the book Stolen Valor, and one of the

00:25:44.579 --> 00:25:46.839
reasons I guess that Mr. Burkett got started

00:25:46.839 --> 00:25:48.960
was that the head of the Vietnam Veterans of

00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:54.180
America in Texas ended up being a fake. Do you

00:25:54.180 --> 00:25:57.359
remember reading about that? Yeah, well, it's

00:25:57.359 --> 00:26:00.640
not at all uncommon because, you know, there's

00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:02.980
no way to check up on them. If you go to the,

00:26:03.059 --> 00:26:06.140
you know, your other guest mentioned being interviewed

00:26:06.140 --> 00:26:11.200
by a high school senior. That's probably part

00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:14.759
of the Library of Congress's living history project.

00:26:15.259 --> 00:26:17.759
I can send you to three of their living history

00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:21.640
project interviews right now that have individuals

00:26:21.640 --> 00:26:24.400
claiming Medals of Honor that are not Medal of

00:26:24.400 --> 00:26:27.140
Honor recipients. That's a wonderful program,

00:26:27.900 --> 00:26:31.779
but there's no way for them to check on, well

00:26:31.779 --> 00:26:33.859
they could be able to check the Medal of Honor,

00:26:33.900 --> 00:26:36.380
but there are several others. But now you've

00:26:36.380 --> 00:26:38.819
got the Library of Congress saying these three

00:26:38.819 --> 00:26:40.819
individuals are Medal of Honor recipients. You

00:26:40.819 --> 00:26:42.880
can't get much more authoritative than that.

00:26:43.339 --> 00:26:44.980
Pretty good evidence, too, that they've committed

00:26:44.980 --> 00:26:49.740
a crime. Yeah. I wonder how you go in and yank

00:26:49.740 --> 00:26:53.440
those histories out of there. Can that be done?

00:26:53.940 --> 00:26:57.890
Does anybody know? I don't know, I guess to verify

00:26:57.890 --> 00:27:00.009
and to check those things out. I think it's amazing.

00:27:00.269 --> 00:27:01.930
We're talking with Doug Stern and we're going

00:27:01.930 --> 00:27:03.730
to be talking with his wife Pam after our break

00:27:03.730 --> 00:27:08.990
about the Stolen Valor Act of 2005 that makes

00:27:08.990 --> 00:27:12.210
it against the law for people to wear or to claim

00:27:12.210 --> 00:27:13.910
that they have won medals that they're not entitled

00:27:13.910 --> 00:27:17.410
to. Somebody was just prosecuted with 90 days

00:27:17.410 --> 00:27:19.789
in jail and he didn't have a Medal of Honor.

00:27:20.210 --> 00:27:23.119
Is that right? Do I remember right? Well we've

00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:26.480
had, in the last month we've had like five prosecutions

00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:29.559
across the country. None of them were under the

00:27:29.559 --> 00:27:31.599
current bill. We're still waiting to see who's

00:27:31.599 --> 00:27:33.099
going to be the first to fall. We'll find out

00:27:33.099 --> 00:27:34.660
more about this when we come back. You're listening

00:27:34.660 --> 00:27:37.440
to Veterans Radio. The Medal of Honor is the

00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:39.619
highest award for valor in combat given a member

00:27:39.619 --> 00:27:41.839
of the Armed Forces of the United States. There

00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:44.779
have been over 3 ,400 recipients of the nation's

00:27:44.779 --> 00:27:48.359
highest award. This is one of them. Captain Louis

00:27:48.359 --> 00:27:50.900
Millet was wounded by grenade fragments, but

00:27:50.900 --> 00:27:56.339
refused evacuation. Details after this. While

00:27:56.339 --> 00:27:58.900
personally leading his company in an attack against

00:27:58.900 --> 00:28:01.859
a strongly held Korean position, Millet noted

00:28:01.859 --> 00:28:04.640
that the first platoon was pinned down by small

00:28:04.640 --> 00:28:08.180
arms, automatic, and anti -tank fire. Millet

00:28:08.180 --> 00:28:10.779
ordered the third platoon forward, placed himself

00:28:10.779 --> 00:28:13.500
at the head of the two platoons, and with fixed

00:28:13.500 --> 00:28:16.359
band at led the assault up the fire -swept hill.

00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:19.859
In the fierce charge, he banetted two enemy soldiers

00:28:19.859 --> 00:28:23.460
and boldly continued on throwing grenades, clubbing

00:28:23.460 --> 00:28:26.019
and banetting the enemy while urging his men

00:28:26.019 --> 00:28:29.559
forward by shouting encouragement. Despite vicious

00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:32.460
opposing fire, the whirlwind hand -to -hand assault

00:28:32.460 --> 00:28:35.660
carried to the crest of the hill. His leadership

00:28:35.660 --> 00:28:38.480
and personal courage so inspired his men that

00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:41.140
they stormed into the hostile position and used

00:28:41.140 --> 00:28:43.890
their banets with such lethal effect that the

00:28:43.890 --> 00:28:47.230
enemy fled in wild disorder. During this fierce

00:28:47.230 --> 00:28:50.089
onslaught, Millet was wounded by grenade fragments,

00:28:50.549 --> 00:28:53.049
but refused evacuation until the objective was

00:28:53.049 --> 00:28:56.289
taken and firmly secured. The Medal of Honor

00:28:56.289 --> 00:29:00.130
series is a production of Veterans Radio. And

00:29:00.130 --> 00:29:02.329
we're back on Veterans Radio, and I've just listened

00:29:02.329 --> 00:29:04.230
to those ads for the first time, and for all

00:29:04.230 --> 00:29:05.950
of our advertisers out there, I think we're going

00:29:05.950 --> 00:29:08.609
to redo them because I'm talking too fast. Sound

00:29:08.609 --> 00:29:10.470
a little bit like a New Jersey guy or something

00:29:10.470 --> 00:29:12.750
along the lines. I thought it was New Jersey.

00:29:13.329 --> 00:29:16.569
It is New Jersey, but anyway, we really want

00:29:16.569 --> 00:29:18.390
to thank all of our sponsors. Without you, we

00:29:18.390 --> 00:29:20.470
wouldn't be on the air, and most of you have

00:29:20.470 --> 00:29:22.329
been with us for a couple of years now, and we

00:29:22.329 --> 00:29:24.710
really do appreciate that. I want to make sure

00:29:24.710 --> 00:29:26.250
I give out the number. We're talking about Stolen

00:29:26.250 --> 00:29:28.390
Valor wannabes out there, veteran wannabes that

00:29:28.390 --> 00:29:30.970
you may have run into during your travels. We'd

00:29:30.970 --> 00:29:33.309
like to hear about them. Give us a call at 877

00:29:33.309 --> 00:29:37.890
-573 -7825. On the phone, we've got Doug Sterner,

00:29:38.089 --> 00:29:41.809
who is the webmaster and founder of TheHomeOfHeroes

00:29:41.809 --> 00:29:44.859
.com. Am I correct, Doug? Well, actually, it's

00:29:44.859 --> 00:29:48.440
Pam. They switch phones on me. Well, that's all

00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:50.900
right. I like surprises. Joining us right now

00:29:50.900 --> 00:29:53.000
on the air is Pam Sterner, who is the one that

00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:56.119
got the Stolen Valor Act going. Pam, tell us

00:29:56.119 --> 00:30:00.200
how you got that started. I decided to go back

00:30:00.200 --> 00:30:03.480
to school as a non -traditional student, obviously,

00:30:03.980 --> 00:30:06.359
and was a junior in school when we were taking

00:30:06.359 --> 00:30:10.640
a policy analysis class. And the assignment for

00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:13.079
the end of the semester was to write a paper.

00:30:13.390 --> 00:30:17.430
about an existing policy that needed to be changed

00:30:17.430 --> 00:30:21.710
or to create a new policy and Doug and I have

00:30:21.710 --> 00:30:24.809
been aware of the problem with Impostors for

00:30:24.809 --> 00:30:27.930
several years and we didn't know exactly how

00:30:27.930 --> 00:30:30.710
to go about changing the law in order to be able

00:30:30.710 --> 00:30:33.170
to prosecute them So I decided to go ahead and

00:30:33.170 --> 00:30:37.029
do my paper based on title 18 United States Code

00:30:37.029 --> 00:30:41.529
the section that deals with military medals and

00:30:41.529 --> 00:30:45.089
and That sounds like a great idea. I'm going

00:30:45.089 --> 00:30:48.009
to have to use that assignment for my own class.

00:30:49.049 --> 00:30:51.410
Well, it's really bad for all the classes coming

00:30:51.410 --> 00:30:54.289
up. And this professor's classes from now on,

00:30:54.849 --> 00:30:57.250
she keeps saying, you take these school papers

00:30:57.250 --> 00:31:00.529
seriously, because Oingale did. And she now has

00:31:00.529 --> 00:31:03.329
a law, because of the effort that she put into

00:31:03.329 --> 00:31:06.349
this assignment. I want to congratulate you on

00:31:06.349 --> 00:31:08.589
that. I think that's amazing and it is a true

00:31:08.589 --> 00:31:11.509
story. Other than a law getting passed for the

00:31:11.509 --> 00:31:15.089
United States, how was your paper received elsewhere?

00:31:16.690 --> 00:31:21.450
First, my professor in particular kept saying,

00:31:21.670 --> 00:31:25.890
well, that's nice, Pam, but truthfully, who cares?

00:31:26.390 --> 00:31:28.150
And what difference is it going to make? And

00:31:28.150 --> 00:31:30.390
why is this really needed? But I think it was

00:31:30.390 --> 00:31:33.589
good to hear her dissension on it because it

00:31:33.589 --> 00:31:36.009
meant that I then had to write the paper with

00:31:36.009 --> 00:31:38.130
the idea that not everybody was going to be behind

00:31:38.130 --> 00:31:41.970
it. I think we've had some veterans who have

00:31:41.970 --> 00:31:45.549
actually criticized this law, veterans who probably

00:31:45.549 --> 00:31:48.109
are guilty of at least minor infractions of this

00:31:48.109 --> 00:31:51.170
law by misleading people with their military

00:31:51.170 --> 00:31:54.390
career. We've had a lot of collectors and traders

00:31:54.390 --> 00:31:56.950
and sellers that are very angry with this law.

00:31:57.430 --> 00:32:00.650
We're trying to explain to them that the law

00:32:00.650 --> 00:32:04.650
states that you can sell, trade, collect medals

00:32:04.650 --> 00:32:08.329
as provided in the military code. And actually,

00:32:08.849 --> 00:32:11.009
the way that the military code states is that

00:32:11.009 --> 00:32:13.109
there's not a problem with buying, selling, or

00:32:13.109 --> 00:32:15.250
trading medals except for the Medal of Honor.

00:32:15.670 --> 00:32:18.089
You can do that. You can put them up on a display

00:32:18.089 --> 00:32:21.950
on your wall, whatever you'd like to do. You

00:32:21.950 --> 00:32:24.089
just can't point to that display and say, yeah,

00:32:24.170 --> 00:32:26.329
I earned those. At that point, you've crossed

00:32:26.329 --> 00:32:30.259
the line. If somebody put up their diploma saying

00:32:30.259 --> 00:32:33.720
that they had received a degree from a university

00:32:33.720 --> 00:32:35.619
or if they had something that said that they

00:32:35.619 --> 00:32:38.599
were a professor, I think that the people in

00:32:38.599 --> 00:32:40.259
the universities would probably have a different

00:32:40.259 --> 00:32:43.140
attitude about that. Yeah, I think you're definitely

00:32:43.140 --> 00:32:45.960
right. You can't go around with a policeman's

00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:48.480
badge in your pocket and say, I'm a cop. That's

00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:50.240
against the law. So why should you be allowed

00:32:50.240 --> 00:32:53.099
to say, I'm a veteran if you're not indeed a

00:32:53.099 --> 00:32:58.049
veteran? other than the collectors, the people

00:32:58.049 --> 00:33:00.589
selling them and so on, why would veterans...

00:33:00.589 --> 00:33:03.170
You have some veterans that say, oh, what's the

00:33:03.170 --> 00:33:05.329
big deal? And truthfully, those are the veterans

00:33:05.329 --> 00:33:08.329
I'm a little bit concerned about, that they're

00:33:08.329 --> 00:33:10.250
thinking that they've crossed the line several

00:33:10.250 --> 00:33:12.809
times. And I know it's really easy with your

00:33:12.809 --> 00:33:16.049
buddies to try to outdo the other person, but

00:33:16.049 --> 00:33:19.349
I think a true veteran and true hero is always

00:33:19.349 --> 00:33:22.170
going to be, you know, proud of what he or she

00:33:22.170 --> 00:33:25.200
did actually do in the armed services. if i could

00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:27.460
find a need to embellish that you talk to any

00:33:27.460 --> 00:33:31.180
medal of honor recipient they'll never even mention

00:33:31.180 --> 00:33:33.079
that they've received the medal of honor when

00:33:33.079 --> 00:33:35.319
people come up to them and say i heard you received

00:33:35.319 --> 00:33:38.680
it what did you do most of them will even talk

00:33:38.680 --> 00:33:41.079
about that if they were just go read my citation

00:33:41.079 --> 00:33:44.579
and that to me that the mark of a true hero someone

00:33:44.579 --> 00:33:47.359
they can receive a medal for something they did

00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:50.599
and they don't they don't really go and talk

00:33:50.599 --> 00:33:53.250
about it they don't try to promote it They don't

00:33:53.250 --> 00:33:55.630
try to pretend to be something else other than

00:33:55.630 --> 00:33:58.250
what they are. A close friend of mine received

00:33:58.250 --> 00:34:02.230
the Silver Star during an ambush in Vietnam,

00:34:02.789 --> 00:34:05.190
what he did in the ambush, and his description

00:34:05.190 --> 00:34:09.019
of it was, I busted things up a little bit. That's

00:34:09.019 --> 00:34:10.880
typical. And that's usually when people say,

00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:13.000
well, how do you know if someone's lying? Usually

00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:16.420
the more they talk, the more it becomes obvious

00:34:16.420 --> 00:34:18.420
that they didn't really earn that after all.

00:34:18.760 --> 00:34:22.559
I think probably 95 % of us, whatever it was

00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:25.500
that they did or we did, we do it on reaction.

00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:27.480
We don't say, oh, now if I do it this way, I

00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:29.659
could get a silver star. If I do it that way,

00:34:29.900 --> 00:34:32.820
unlike there was an issue when I was researching

00:34:32.820 --> 00:34:35.739
this program about General Douglas MacArthur

00:34:35.739 --> 00:34:39.730
getting a distinguished flying cross. and and

00:34:39.730 --> 00:34:42.230
the the actual the actual citation it was that

00:34:42.230 --> 00:34:44.929
he flew in an airplane over the over the plains

00:34:44.929 --> 00:34:48.349
of Korea putting himself in danger and I can

00:34:48.349 --> 00:34:50.690
think of 90 % of the helicopter pilots and probably

00:34:50.690 --> 00:34:52.550
90 % of all the pilots out there that didn't

00:34:52.550 --> 00:34:54.409
get a distinguished flying cross or flying across

00:34:54.409 --> 00:34:56.610
the plains of Vietnam or Korea or anything like

00:34:56.610 --> 00:35:00.449
that they saw a shell burst from afar right you

00:35:00.449 --> 00:35:03.980
know and That's yeah. Well, you know Medal of

00:35:03.980 --> 00:35:06.199
Honor recipients a lot of times and you say you're

00:35:06.199 --> 00:35:09.440
a hero and they'll say no I was just in a certain

00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:12.800
place at a certain time and I just reacted and

00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:15.199
did what I was supposed to do That's why they

00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:17.139
don't want to be called Medal of Honor winners

00:35:17.139 --> 00:35:20.320
Right to them a winner is someone who is in a

00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:23.280
contest and it's set now to receive a prize They

00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:24.960
call themselves recipients because they say I

00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:27.179
was just doing what anybody else would have done

00:35:27.179 --> 00:35:30.079
I received this and they usually consider themselves

00:35:30.460 --> 00:35:32.760
Wearing that Medal of Honor for all the other

00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:35.639
people that were fighting with them that didn't

00:35:35.639 --> 00:35:37.739
receive it or that were killed in the action

00:35:37.739 --> 00:35:40.219
They never really see that as something that

00:35:40.219 --> 00:35:44.159
they personally deserve to have That's true and

00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:46.460
going back to your statement about winner I use

00:35:46.460 --> 00:35:49.079
the incorrect terminology one time to a Medal

00:35:49.079 --> 00:35:52.320
of Honor recipient And I said I understand you're

00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:54.599
a Medal of Honor winner. He said recipient son.

00:35:54.619 --> 00:35:58.019
It wasn't a contest Yeah, they're very big on

00:35:58.019 --> 00:36:00.019
that. Right. We're talking with Pam Sterner,

00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:02.119
the author actually, I believe, of the Stolen

00:36:02.119 --> 00:36:04.739
Valor Act of 2005, which finally got enacted

00:36:04.739 --> 00:36:07.400
in 2006 and probably got started even before

00:36:07.400 --> 00:36:08.880
then. When did you write your paper initially?

00:36:09.559 --> 00:36:13.619
Actually, I wrote it in the fall of 2004. In

00:36:13.619 --> 00:36:15.719
2004? For those of you out there who would like

00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:17.780
to comment or ask Pam a question or us, give

00:36:17.780 --> 00:36:23.179
us a call at 877 -573 -7825. You know we talked

00:36:23.179 --> 00:36:26.820
earlier about the being interviewed by the students.

00:36:27.179 --> 00:36:31.159
And I was interviewed once for a video class

00:36:31.159 --> 00:36:33.320
over at the University of Michigan. I got another

00:36:33.320 --> 00:36:37.099
guy that was with the 101st Airborne. He was

00:36:37.099 --> 00:36:41.820
the prime person to be interviewed. And we were

00:36:41.820 --> 00:36:45.780
invited to go to the presentations. And so I

00:36:45.780 --> 00:36:47.980
went to the auditorium for two nights in a row

00:36:47.980 --> 00:36:50.840
and watched the presentations that these students

00:36:50.840 --> 00:36:54.969
made as they interviewed Vietnam veterans. and

00:36:54.969 --> 00:36:59.309
I could sit there and I'd say wannabe. Real veteran,

00:36:59.849 --> 00:37:03.289
wannabe. And as Dale said earlier, some of them

00:37:03.289 --> 00:37:05.889
were there, but embellished the fact. So here

00:37:05.889 --> 00:37:08.690
was a corpsman, I'm sorry, a medic, who said,

00:37:08.789 --> 00:37:11.329
yeah, we could look across the rice paddies and

00:37:11.329 --> 00:37:13.409
see all these little spots of light where they

00:37:13.409 --> 00:37:18.949
had toked up. And so we waited and let them enjoy

00:37:18.949 --> 00:37:21.730
one last toke before we called in, or before

00:37:21.730 --> 00:37:24.570
I let them do that before I called in artillery

00:37:24.570 --> 00:37:28.349
on them. And I'm sitting there just nauseated.

00:37:28.889 --> 00:37:32.010
I know. Well, it doesn't happen. It doesn't happen.

00:37:32.230 --> 00:37:33.510
It's such a worthwhile project, but that's been

00:37:33.510 --> 00:37:36.809
one of the negatives about that project, is that

00:37:36.809 --> 00:37:40.829
unfortunately no documentation is being collected

00:37:40.829 --> 00:37:42.570
to make sure these people are being interviewed

00:37:42.570 --> 00:37:45.099
are indeed veterans. Well, I think that's something

00:37:45.099 --> 00:37:46.860
that we want to touch on just briefly, and I

00:37:46.860 --> 00:37:48.719
don't know what you know about this, but, you

00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:51.400
know, check out these people if you want to talk

00:37:51.400 --> 00:37:53.980
to a veteran or anybody out there wants to have

00:37:53.980 --> 00:37:56.519
one talk to their organization. Asked to see

00:37:56.519 --> 00:37:59.239
a copy of their DD -214, which is not necessarily

00:37:59.239 --> 00:38:01.699
the Bible of everything, but it gives you kind

00:38:01.699 --> 00:38:03.539
of an idea of where they were and so forth. And

00:38:03.539 --> 00:38:05.920
we know that there can be mistakes on the DD

00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:08.739
-214 because mine had a bunch of them on there.

00:38:08.980 --> 00:38:12.760
And if you go to your local Veterans Affairs

00:38:12.760 --> 00:38:15.340
office, usually in a county or one of the other

00:38:15.340 --> 00:38:17.179
veteran service organizations, they'll help you

00:38:17.179 --> 00:38:20.159
get a copy of those military records. And if

00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:22.980
you have a mistake on your DD -214 and it gets

00:38:22.980 --> 00:38:27.079
corrected, you will get a new call. DD -215,

00:38:27.400 --> 00:38:30.139
and the 215 will have all of the corrections

00:38:30.139 --> 00:38:32.679
on it. So you need to have both of them if you

00:38:32.679 --> 00:38:35.019
ever want to sell a book or something out there.

00:38:35.420 --> 00:38:37.440
That's a very good idea. And remember, though,

00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:39.599
that those can be falsified, too. So if they're

00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:42.480
claiming a very high award, check out some of

00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:44.960
the organizations out there that try to keep

00:38:44.960 --> 00:38:47.159
track of those things, such as the Military Order

00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:49.920
of the Purple Heart, or give Doug a call. Go

00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:53.139
to homoheros .com and see if they really receive

00:38:53.139 --> 00:38:58.130
the award that they're DD214 says they did because

00:38:58.130 --> 00:39:01.110
it's very likely that they could have even gotten

00:39:01.110 --> 00:39:03.349
that from eBay and filled in their own information.

00:39:03.849 --> 00:39:06.170
That's right. We've seen examples of that. And

00:39:06.170 --> 00:39:08.909
there are a couple of websites that non -POW,

00:39:09.110 --> 00:39:11.610
I think it is, has a website with a list of all

00:39:11.610 --> 00:39:14.190
of the people that they know of that have claimed

00:39:14.190 --> 00:39:18.329
to be POWs. They exceed the number of actual

00:39:18.329 --> 00:39:23.530
POWs that we had in Vietnam. There's the the

00:39:23.530 --> 00:39:26.130
Special Forces has the same thing and one of

00:39:26.130 --> 00:39:28.650
the ironic things is of the 1 million living

00:39:28.650 --> 00:39:32.210
Vietnam veterans 14 million of them checked off

00:39:32.210 --> 00:39:34.989
that they were Vietnam veterans in the 2000 census

00:39:34.989 --> 00:39:40.909
form A great place to go to find out information

00:39:40.909 --> 00:39:42.889
on people that you think may be one of these

00:39:42.889 --> 00:39:46.289
is to go to Doug's website. That's homeofheroes

00:39:46.289 --> 00:39:51.210
.com. All one word. It's an excellent site. All

00:39:51.210 --> 00:39:54.150
kinds of information on there that you can find.

00:39:54.570 --> 00:39:58.409
I got lost in there. Kind of you know, just finding

00:39:58.409 --> 00:40:01.670
all kinds of things service crosses silver cross

00:40:01.670 --> 00:40:04.769
and so forth Pam could you hold on for a minute

00:40:04.769 --> 00:40:06.329
or two because we're gonna take another break

00:40:06.329 --> 00:40:08.789
and I want to finish this up and we will talk

00:40:08.789 --> 00:40:11.269
to you in just a minute You're listening to veterans

00:40:11.269 --> 00:40:13.730
radio and we're back on veterans radio. We're

00:40:13.730 --> 00:40:15.989
talking about stolen valor military wannabes

00:40:15.989 --> 00:40:19.289
We're talking with Pam and Doug sterner Pam wrote

00:40:19.289 --> 00:40:21.849
the stolen valor act. I think that'd be kind

00:40:21.849 --> 00:40:23.809
of cool to say that that's something I'd be extremely

00:40:23.809 --> 00:40:27.260
proud of Pam Thank you. And when we went to the

00:40:27.260 --> 00:40:29.739
break, we were talking about how to verify the

00:40:29.739 --> 00:40:32.320
authenticity of somebody's service. While we're

00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:35.559
on that subject, I wanted to remind your listeners

00:40:35.559 --> 00:40:40.500
that we are compiling really the first database

00:40:40.500 --> 00:40:44.400
that can be publicly accessed to all of the higher

00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:47.179
metals, and we're hoping to eventually include

00:40:47.179 --> 00:40:49.380
all the metals. So if any of your readers out

00:40:49.380 --> 00:40:52.619
there have citations of themselves or uncles

00:40:52.619 --> 00:40:55.059
or grandfathers, whatever, and they would like

00:40:55.059 --> 00:40:58.980
to send us a copy of those citations. We would

00:40:58.980 --> 00:41:00.659
really appreciate that and that would help us

00:41:00.659 --> 00:41:02.500
to go a long ways towards actually getting that

00:41:02.500 --> 00:41:05.059
done. How would they get that to you? They can

00:41:05.059 --> 00:41:09.559
go ahead and either email it to doug at homeofheroes

00:41:09.559 --> 00:41:13.739
.com or by going to the homeofheroes .com website,

00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:17.420
they'll see address and phone number there. Is

00:41:17.420 --> 00:41:20.579
that for all wars? Yes, we want it for all wars,

00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:24.070
all veterans. I know that that you are also talking

00:41:24.070 --> 00:41:26.949
to Doug earlier that he had he had stated that

00:41:26.949 --> 00:41:30.409
you were trying to get this to be Become a legal

00:41:30.409 --> 00:41:32.349
act again. It's kind of an add -on to your stolen

00:41:32.349 --> 00:41:35.789
valor program. We're going back for more legislation

00:41:35.789 --> 00:41:40.250
kind of a stolen valor, too We're actually I'm

00:41:40.250 --> 00:41:43.670
asking Congress to mandate That this role of

00:41:43.670 --> 00:41:46.650
honor be kept for all veterans and that it be

00:41:46.650 --> 00:41:51.409
readily accessible by the public and not only

00:41:51.630 --> 00:41:54.690
we're not doing it so much as to but the frauds

00:41:54.690 --> 00:41:56.130
although that would definitely make it easier

00:41:56.130 --> 00:41:59.710
to do so we're doing that because the veterans

00:41:59.710 --> 00:42:03.130
deserve to be honored in this way in their families

00:42:03.130 --> 00:42:06.070
deserve to be able to find information about

00:42:06.070 --> 00:42:09.349
what their father or their grandfather did as

00:42:09.349 --> 00:42:12.329
part of their family history right now these

00:42:12.329 --> 00:42:16.469
records are in cardboard boxes stacked at several

00:42:16.469 --> 00:42:18.710
different places and as we already know from

00:42:18.880 --> 00:42:21.300
The St. Louis fire, a lot of times these records

00:42:21.300 --> 00:42:24.800
get destroyed. With our computer technology that

00:42:24.800 --> 00:42:27.760
we have today, there's no reason we should ever

00:42:27.760 --> 00:42:30.380
have a problem with records being destroyed again.

00:42:31.019 --> 00:42:32.599
I don't know. With the government, they seem

00:42:32.599 --> 00:42:34.699
to lose emails and all kinds of things. I don't

00:42:34.699 --> 00:42:36.320
know where stuff disappears these days. Maybe

00:42:36.320 --> 00:42:38.320
that's why the private citizens are taking it.

00:42:38.639 --> 00:42:41.460
Well, that's true. And I think it's important

00:42:41.460 --> 00:42:45.639
to paraphrase George Washington. If we don't

00:42:45.639 --> 00:42:47.440
take care of our veterans, nobody else will.

00:42:47.800 --> 00:42:50.420
And so it's up to us as civilians to do that.

00:42:50.559 --> 00:42:52.579
We can't rely on the government to do everything

00:42:52.579 --> 00:42:55.940
for us. They just won't because they get distracted

00:42:55.940 --> 00:42:58.539
easily. Well, there's too much for relying on

00:42:58.539 --> 00:43:00.360
the government. Let's do things ourselves. I

00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:02.719
think the government suffers from ADHD and many

00:43:02.719 --> 00:43:07.079
of those other attention deficit problems because

00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:09.780
they move from issue to issue depending on which

00:43:09.780 --> 00:43:11.860
way the wind blows. And it takes a dedicated

00:43:11.860 --> 00:43:14.920
group like you and some of the other organizations

00:43:14.920 --> 00:43:17.230
out there that to make sure that these things

00:43:17.230 --> 00:43:19.789
do get taken care of. Because most of us, we

00:43:19.789 --> 00:43:22.730
don't know what our dads and moms did during

00:43:22.730 --> 00:43:25.590
this war or that conflict or even what they did

00:43:25.590 --> 00:43:27.769
when they were kids. And I think the idea of

00:43:27.769 --> 00:43:30.989
the history projects is really important. And

00:43:30.989 --> 00:43:33.269
as Doug pointed out, we need to somehow figure

00:43:33.269 --> 00:43:35.869
out how to verify that these are true stories.

00:43:37.699 --> 00:43:40.780
I want to thank you very much, Pam and Doug,

00:43:41.039 --> 00:43:44.119
for being on Veterans Radio today. And for any

00:43:44.119 --> 00:43:45.860
of you out there who want to contact them, you

00:43:45.860 --> 00:43:48.559
can go to their website. That's, where did I

00:43:48.559 --> 00:43:54.079
put it? HomeOfHeroes .com. There it is. And thank

00:43:54.079 --> 00:43:55.420
you very much. We'll put some information on

00:43:55.420 --> 00:43:58.079
our website for you. And I hope to talk to you

00:43:58.079 --> 00:44:00.940
both again soon. That sounds great. We appreciate

00:44:00.940 --> 00:44:03.340
being on your show. Thank you very much. You're

00:44:03.340 --> 00:44:06.219
welcome. Bye -bye. Dale, that's something that

00:44:06.219 --> 00:44:10.000
really is important and you know part of the

00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:12.780
healing process of veterans coming home from

00:44:12.780 --> 00:44:15.880
war is the proper recognition and there's nothing

00:44:15.880 --> 00:44:18.599
takes you know they don't want to be recognized

00:44:18.599 --> 00:44:20.840
they really want the people around them that

00:44:20.840 --> 00:44:23.440
they serve with to be recognized and for those

00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:27.920
who steal that recognition, that hinders the

00:44:27.920 --> 00:44:30.780
healing process. Well, again, while I was researching

00:44:30.780 --> 00:44:33.639
this, Gary, and you and I have political differences

00:44:33.639 --> 00:44:36.340
on a lot of different issues, but, you know,

00:44:36.460 --> 00:44:39.380
it's interesting that the wannabes are out there

00:44:39.380 --> 00:44:42.039
and people will use them for whatever their particular

00:44:42.039 --> 00:44:46.579
cause is. In fact, I was looking back on that

00:44:46.579 --> 00:44:51.500
documentary, The Winter of Shame. The thing about

00:44:51.500 --> 00:44:54.460
the interviews in Detroit were... Oh, yeah, the

00:44:54.460 --> 00:44:56.699
Winter Soldier. Winter Soldier, and it turned

00:44:56.699 --> 00:44:59.219
out that half or more than half of the, quote,

00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:01.500
veterans that were suffering from all the issues

00:45:01.500 --> 00:45:03.360
that occurred in Vietnam were fakes. They were

00:45:03.360 --> 00:45:06.760
fakes, and of the veterans that actually were

00:45:06.760 --> 00:45:09.119
veterans, the majority of them had never been

00:45:09.119 --> 00:45:11.900
to Vietnam. Right, and that's an important difference

00:45:11.900 --> 00:45:13.900
out there for our listeners who are not military,

00:45:13.960 --> 00:45:15.460
is that there's a difference between a Vietnam

00:45:15.460 --> 00:45:17.559
veteran and a Vietnam -era veteran, just like

00:45:17.559 --> 00:45:19.719
there's a World War II veteran and a World War

00:45:19.719 --> 00:45:21.940
II -era veteran. And the era part is that they

00:45:21.940 --> 00:45:24.719
didn't get to go over. And again, I don't like

00:45:24.719 --> 00:45:29.179
that terminology there. That's right. You guys

00:45:29.179 --> 00:45:32.739
were era. You were era. It happened to me. I

00:45:32.739 --> 00:45:35.239
spoke to my nephew who was just out of basic

00:45:35.239 --> 00:45:38.860
training at a time of the big cutbacks. And he

00:45:38.860 --> 00:45:41.719
had an opportunity to get out. And I said, you

00:45:41.719 --> 00:45:44.280
know, the military is a dangerous occupation.

00:45:45.699 --> 00:45:48.079
in peacetime and not in a war zone. And being

00:45:48.079 --> 00:45:50.420
in a war is nothing more than an accident of

00:45:50.420 --> 00:45:52.900
birth. You had to have been born at a time where

00:45:52.900 --> 00:45:54.780
about 20 years later there's going to be a war

00:45:54.780 --> 00:45:58.619
going on, and you may or may not go there. And

00:45:58.619 --> 00:46:02.380
those who served in the military honorably are

00:46:02.380 --> 00:46:05.619
just as, you have just as much right to be proud

00:46:05.619 --> 00:46:10.599
of them as those who did go to the war. There's

00:46:10.599 --> 00:46:12.579
an article in Today's Ann Arbor News about the

00:46:12.579 --> 00:46:15.099
ROTC graduates, which I thought was really interesting

00:46:15.099 --> 00:46:19.079
because in fact it's been increasing. I think

00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:21.079
there were 75 or something in their whole program

00:46:21.079 --> 00:46:24.320
up there now and a number of them are getting

00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:25.719
commissioned. They were getting commissioned

00:46:25.719 --> 00:46:28.360
yesterday afternoon, the new second lieutenants,

00:46:28.639 --> 00:46:30.659
and some of them said they just did this because

00:46:30.659 --> 00:46:32.599
they felt it was the right thing to do, other

00:46:32.599 --> 00:46:33.960
ones because of the scholarships and everything

00:46:33.960 --> 00:46:37.110
that's involved with it. Hey, if you step up,

00:46:37.730 --> 00:46:40.170
that's courageous. You bet. I want to go through

00:46:40.170 --> 00:46:42.349
a couple of things. How to expose a phony. We'll

00:46:42.349 --> 00:46:44.929
finish up this part of the program with how to

00:46:44.929 --> 00:46:48.070
expose one of these wannabes. This is an interesting

00:46:48.070 --> 00:46:50.449
website I found this on. This is actually Marine,

00:46:50.949 --> 00:46:53.050
1st Battalion 9th Marines. Their website is called

00:46:53.050 --> 00:46:56.809
TheWalkingDead .org. Oh, that was the unit, The

00:46:56.809 --> 00:46:59.550
Walking Dead. That was their nickname. And how

00:46:59.550 --> 00:47:02.130
do you expose a phony? Well, first of all, you

00:47:02.130 --> 00:47:04.750
trust your gut. which is as you mentioned earlier.

00:47:05.110 --> 00:47:06.849
If you think someone is an imposter, chances

00:47:06.849 --> 00:47:11.710
are you're right. The guy from the FBI that Doug

00:47:11.710 --> 00:47:14.809
was talking about, Tom Katone, says that nearly

00:47:14.809 --> 00:47:16.949
all the tips he gets about fakers come from private

00:47:16.949 --> 00:47:19.809
citizens, and well over 90 % of those suspicions

00:47:19.809 --> 00:47:22.949
turn out to be true. Initiate a conversation

00:47:22.949 --> 00:47:25.909
with them. Be curious ask questions about the

00:47:25.909 --> 00:47:28.070
person his service or his awards about being

00:47:28.070 --> 00:47:30.090
confrontational mentally take notes of dates

00:47:30.090 --> 00:47:32.929
and units I know that with probably the same

00:47:32.929 --> 00:47:34.570
thing with the soldiers that are in Iraq right

00:47:34.570 --> 00:47:37.389
now How do they pronounce towns and villages

00:47:37.389 --> 00:47:41.849
and so forth and what type of? Sea rations or

00:47:41.849 --> 00:47:44.110
supplemental incomes did their food do they have

00:47:44.110 --> 00:47:46.130
and that when were they all in the big three?

00:47:46.210 --> 00:47:49.150
Where did you serve Saigon Danang and Cambodia?

00:47:49.889 --> 00:47:51.869
Yes, I saw a sign. I mean everybody was in case

00:47:51.869 --> 00:47:54.139
on right And I didn't even know where it was,

00:47:54.159 --> 00:47:58.380
and I was there. So... Anyway, initiate that

00:47:58.380 --> 00:47:59.780
kind of thing. Get a picture if you can. It's

00:47:59.780 --> 00:48:01.860
not a crime to lie about military service, at

00:48:01.860 --> 00:48:04.519
least not yet. Posers aren't breaking any laws

00:48:04.519 --> 00:48:06.659
until they wear the rank awards or uniforms they

00:48:06.659 --> 00:48:08.940
don't rate. To successfully prosecute fakers,

00:48:09.280 --> 00:48:11.920
photographic evidence is key. Most fakers won't

00:48:11.920 --> 00:48:14.320
mind a request for a picture. Most of them are

00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:17.579
egomaniacs anyway. If possible, snap a shot of

00:48:17.579 --> 00:48:19.989
their license plate too. And finally, if you

00:48:19.989 --> 00:48:22.150
do think that you've got a fake here, contact

00:48:22.150 --> 00:48:24.269
the authorities. Wearing medals fraudulently

00:48:24.269 --> 00:48:26.710
and impersonating a service member now is a federal

00:48:26.710 --> 00:48:29.530
crime. Don't bother with the local cops. Call

00:48:29.530 --> 00:48:32.849
and contact a local FBI agent," he says. And

00:48:32.849 --> 00:48:34.610
it's a shame that they have to be taken away

00:48:34.610 --> 00:48:37.230
from protecting their country, but you know what?

00:48:37.550 --> 00:48:40.010
This is something that needs to be done, and

00:48:40.010 --> 00:48:42.630
these people should be exposed. I think so. The

00:48:42.630 --> 00:48:44.130
other thing I wanted to add, this is from another

00:48:44.130 --> 00:48:46.250
website. I can't even read this guy's website.

00:48:46.650 --> 00:48:51.010
This is greensickle .com. And if they talk about

00:48:51.010 --> 00:48:53.329
appearance matters, and this is really kind of

00:48:53.329 --> 00:48:55.409
important because a lot of things as impesters

00:48:55.409 --> 00:48:58.369
Impostors, excuse me put on pretty lousy impersonations

00:48:58.369 --> 00:49:00.150
They're often out of shape and have solemnly

00:49:00.150 --> 00:49:03.150
appearance in uniform If it looks like 50 pounds

00:49:03.150 --> 00:49:05.590
of pork shoved into a 10 pound sack. It's probably

00:49:05.590 --> 00:49:07.789
an imposter now We know that there are people

00:49:07.789 --> 00:49:11.730
that will Nice quote, right? We also know that

00:49:11.730 --> 00:49:14.869
some go to the other extreme and look extremely

00:49:14.869 --> 00:49:17.630
straight. Yes. Well, I've got friends that are

00:49:17.630 --> 00:49:20.130
so overweight they can barely walk. And that

00:49:20.130 --> 00:49:23.150
came, I believe, from stressful eating afterwards.

00:49:23.389 --> 00:49:25.269
I know they were grunts. I just happen to know

00:49:25.269 --> 00:49:30.789
they were grunts. These people are fat. Top secret?

00:49:31.050 --> 00:49:35.699
Probably not. Impostors? A phony often will say

00:49:35.699 --> 00:49:37.719
details of his career exploits are classified

00:49:37.719 --> 00:49:39.900
and he can't tell you if he does he has to kill

00:49:39.900 --> 00:49:45.440
you. My dog ate my DD -214. Didn't work with

00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:47.880
homework? It won't work with your DD -214 either.

00:49:48.460 --> 00:49:51.400
Watch the rack, the rack of medals, the decorations.

00:49:51.559 --> 00:49:53.840
What order are they in? Phonies often wear medals

00:49:53.840 --> 00:49:56.280
in the wrong order or in dispromotion into the

00:49:56.280 --> 00:49:59.820
time of service. I know some people that were

00:49:59.820 --> 00:50:01.480
in the military for many, many years and they've

00:50:01.480 --> 00:50:04.199
got two rows. Maybe three, I know some people

00:50:04.199 --> 00:50:05.860
that say they were in for two years and they

00:50:05.860 --> 00:50:08.420
got five rows. Right, these people were, they

00:50:08.420 --> 00:50:10.179
got around and they were real heroes. And they

00:50:10.179 --> 00:50:13.219
were real heroes. And another says, just ask.

00:50:13.840 --> 00:50:16.380
Oh, just ask. Another one, check the birth date.

00:50:16.559 --> 00:50:18.179
There's an awful lot of Vietnam veterans running

00:50:18.179 --> 00:50:21.920
around out there that are 35 years old. They

00:50:21.920 --> 00:50:26.519
started young. You go to the Vietnam veteran

00:50:26.519 --> 00:50:29.239
reunions, Kokomo, Melbourne and all that, and

00:50:29.239 --> 00:50:31.869
gee, they just stand out in the crowd. We have

00:50:31.869 --> 00:50:33.789
about two minutes to go, and I want to, you know,

00:50:33.889 --> 00:50:36.429
if you have any questions or comments about this

00:50:36.429 --> 00:50:38.170
program, you know, send us an email. We'd love

00:50:38.170 --> 00:50:40.909
to read your emails on the air and tell people,

00:50:40.909 --> 00:50:42.489
you know, what you think about our issues and

00:50:42.489 --> 00:50:44.989
our stories, because we'd really like to tell

00:50:44.989 --> 00:50:47.190
the stories that you want to hear out there.

00:50:47.250 --> 00:50:49.909
And let's just go to veteransradio .net, and

00:50:49.909 --> 00:50:51.690
we'd be more than happy to get your issues out

00:50:51.690 --> 00:50:54.170
on the air. We got a big one coming up next week,

00:50:54.190 --> 00:50:56.110
and I wanted to just talk about this briefly.

00:50:56.750 --> 00:51:00.010
This is pretty exciting to us there have been

00:51:00.010 --> 00:51:03.670
allegations out there that the NCIS has the Naval

00:51:03.670 --> 00:51:06.469
Committee Naval Criminal Investigation Services

00:51:06.469 --> 00:51:09.550
in interviewing some Marines from a from a supposed

00:51:09.550 --> 00:51:13.750
Friendly kill in Iraq have been using torture

00:51:13.750 --> 00:51:16.849
of all things to get these Marines to confess

00:51:16.849 --> 00:51:19.070
to whatever it was that they're going on and

00:51:19.070 --> 00:51:21.150
They're going after a lieutenant colonel Chesney

00:51:22.279 --> 00:51:24.760
Chesney and we're going to be talking with the

00:51:24.760 --> 00:51:26.739
prosecuting attorney or the defense attorney

00:51:26.739 --> 00:51:29.380
for him next week and that's going to be Richard

00:51:29.380 --> 00:51:32.380
Thompson, Thompson of the Thomas Moore Law Center

00:51:32.380 --> 00:51:33.940
here in Ann Arbor and he's going to be telling

00:51:33.940 --> 00:51:37.980
us the entire story of the incident in Iraq and

00:51:37.980 --> 00:51:41.019
what happened and I think you don't want to miss

00:51:41.019 --> 00:51:43.940
this one. May 12th, we're going to be doing the

00:51:43.940 --> 00:51:47.639
story on Bud Day, Medal of Honor recipient. A

00:51:47.639 --> 00:51:50.539
real one? Pardon me? A real one. A real one.

00:51:50.619 --> 00:51:53.159
While being held prisoner of war in North Vietnam,

00:51:53.579 --> 00:51:56.659
and our special guest coming on to talk about

00:51:56.659 --> 00:52:00.300
Bud Day was his former cellmate, Senator John

00:52:00.300 --> 00:52:03.980
McCain. He'll be on Veterans Radio May 12th.

00:52:04.199 --> 00:52:07.079
And then on May 19th, we're going to be doing

00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:09.440
a program on Okinawa. So we are looking forward

00:52:09.440 --> 00:52:11.679
to survivors of the Battle of Okinawa, which

00:52:11.679 --> 00:52:14.699
was the bloodiest battle in World War II. And

00:52:14.699 --> 00:52:16.920
we want to make sure that we get the live people

00:52:16.920 --> 00:52:20.750
on as much as we can. Okinawa was so devastated

00:52:20.750 --> 00:52:23.690
that there's pine trees all over the place. They're

00:52:23.690 --> 00:52:27.110
not native to Okinawa. They were planted there

00:52:27.110 --> 00:52:30.309
by our occupation forces afterwards to reforest

00:52:30.309 --> 00:52:32.650
the island. I want to thank the people here at

00:52:32.650 --> 00:52:36.130
Avi Maria Radio. Gary, Bob, Ken and Kara, thank

00:52:36.130 --> 00:52:50.630
you very much. You are dismissed. The opinions

00:52:50.630 --> 00:52:53.389
expressed on this program are those of our guests

00:52:53.389 --> 00:52:56.090
and are not necessarily those of Veterans Radio

00:52:56.090 --> 00:52:59.349
or this station. Veterans Radio is a production

00:52:59.349 --> 00:53:00.889
of Veterans Radio LLC.