WEBVTT 00:00:05.160 --> 00:00:08.980 All across America and around the world, this 00:00:08.980 --> 00:00:15.140 is Veterans Radio. This is Veterans Radio. Good 00:00:15.140 --> 00:00:18.600 day. I'm Jim Fossone. I'm the Officer of the 00:00:18.600 --> 00:00:20.699 Deck today here on Veterans Radio and thanks 00:00:20.699 --> 00:00:23.460 for joining us. We've got some interesting stories 00:00:23.460 --> 00:00:25.640 for you. We always want to remind you, you can 00:00:25.640 --> 00:00:28.739 find more about Veterans Radio at its Facebook 00:00:28.739 --> 00:00:32.420 site or at the web, veteransradio .org, where 00:00:32.420 --> 00:00:35.259 we're on the web 24 -7. You can find a lot of 00:00:35.259 --> 00:00:38.299 our podcasts there as well. We post new ones 00:00:38.299 --> 00:00:42.479 every Tuesday, so you can get a new story, a 00:00:42.479 --> 00:00:45.219 new interview, something you didn't know before 00:00:45.219 --> 00:00:49.460 by going to veteransradio .org. 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We just want to remind you that Veterans 00:01:34.280 --> 00:01:39.340 Radio podcasts are available on all your favorite 00:01:39.340 --> 00:01:43.359 streaming platforms including RSS .com, Apple 00:01:43.359 --> 00:01:48.230 Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube Podcasts, I Heart 00:01:48.230 --> 00:01:52.329 Radio, and Reeves Across America Radio. So wherever 00:01:52.329 --> 00:01:55.870 you are, you can find us, whether it's on your 00:01:55.870 --> 00:01:58.269 mobile phone, or your computer, or your laptop, 00:01:58.370 --> 00:02:02.030 your tablet, but listen in to Veterans Radio 00:02:02.030 --> 00:02:04.769 Podcasts. We post something new every week, and 00:02:04.769 --> 00:02:07.209 you're going to find it informative. We want 00:02:07.209 --> 00:02:11.250 to welcome to Veterans Radio today, Maurice Imoff, 00:02:12.169 --> 00:02:14.849 a Michigan historian and author from the Jackson, 00:02:14.870 --> 00:02:18.770 Michigan area. Maurice, welcome to Veterans Radio. 00:02:19.110 --> 00:02:21.789 Oh, they're happy to be here. Well, you've written 00:02:21.789 --> 00:02:24.930 a book that captured my eye, and I thought, well, 00:02:25.050 --> 00:02:28.689 this is... This is local history I don't know 00:02:28.689 --> 00:02:32.669 and I think that's what a lot of us recognize 00:02:32.669 --> 00:02:35.710 is there's so much local history we don't know 00:02:35.710 --> 00:02:38.750 and I wanted to pass this along because I think 00:02:38.750 --> 00:02:41.969 all over the country there are these kinds of 00:02:42.030 --> 00:02:44.849 Little historical nuggets none of us know about, 00:02:45.409 --> 00:02:48.870 and you have researched and ridden on the first 00:02:48.870 --> 00:02:51.969 Michigan colored infantry, later known as the 00:02:51.969 --> 00:02:55.389 102nd USCT, which we'll explain that action in 00:02:55.389 --> 00:02:59.110 a minute. Let's start, Maurice, with how did 00:02:59.110 --> 00:03:02.210 you get interested in researching this particular 00:03:02.210 --> 00:03:05.009 subject, which goes all the way back to the Civil 00:03:05.009 --> 00:03:07.419 War? Yeah, that's a great subject. Great question 00:03:07.419 --> 00:03:11.879 to ask. I got involved at the Jackson Civil War 00:03:11.879 --> 00:03:14.860 muster in 2014, now the largest civil war living 00:03:14.860 --> 00:03:17.520 history event in the Midwest. My grandfather 00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:21.500 took me in. He was a big historian. I was not. 00:03:21.500 --> 00:03:24.960 He'd be talking history. I think some grandfathers 00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:27.159 could tell your grandson about the history and 00:03:27.159 --> 00:03:28.699 how cool the railroad tracks are, things like 00:03:28.699 --> 00:03:30.919 that. And I'm looking out the window, staring 00:03:30.919 --> 00:03:34.139 off to the side, not paying any attention. We 00:03:34.139 --> 00:03:35.840 go to the Civil War monster, which I did find 00:03:35.840 --> 00:03:38.080 interesting. But either way, he stepped away 00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:39.580 for a second to take a look at something else 00:03:39.580 --> 00:03:41.800 that came across a group of African -American 00:03:41.800 --> 00:03:44.580 living historians, which stood out. I mean, they 00:03:44.580 --> 00:03:46.439 were the only ones and they're a bunch together. 00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:49.020 And I got to know those guys. And before I knew 00:03:49.020 --> 00:03:52.000 it. I was wearing a jacket, the hat and pants. 00:03:52.500 --> 00:03:54.439 Um, and my grandfather came back looking for 00:03:54.439 --> 00:03:57.699 me and I blended in with, which was kind of funny. 00:03:57.919 --> 00:03:59.580 What happened to him? I lost him. Where'd he 00:03:59.580 --> 00:04:02.360 go? And he was doing that. He was looking left, 00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:04.000 looking right, putting his hand over his head, 00:04:04.139 --> 00:04:06.979 trying to block the sun. He was looking for me. 00:04:07.460 --> 00:04:09.840 And, um, you know, short to make them sort of 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:12.800 little Florida there. I, uh, The first, so I 00:04:12.800 --> 00:04:14.960 joined and the first year was all about the battles. 00:04:15.300 --> 00:04:17.540 You know, as a young guy, you know, 14, I loved 00:04:17.540 --> 00:04:19.100 doing the reenactments, you know, the musket, 00:04:19.139 --> 00:04:21.000 all that kind of stuff. That was awesome. But 00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:24.240 it was the second year when I visited the state 00:04:24.240 --> 00:04:27.480 archives in Lansing and got to view the first 00:04:27.480 --> 00:04:30.160 Michigan colored regiments battle flag that had 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:31.600 actually been in the service with them in the 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:34.759 1860s. And it was in poor condition, you know, 00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:36.800 you're talking, you know, battle scars, you know, 00:04:36.939 --> 00:04:38.920 tattered condition, the silk had deteriorated. 00:04:39.290 --> 00:04:41.290 And I became interested in it because I hadn't 00:04:41.290 --> 00:04:43.509 really been researched that much. There was missing 00:04:43.509 --> 00:04:46.389 pieces from it, paint scars. So I started digging 00:04:46.389 --> 00:04:49.170 into that research. And before I knew it, it 00:04:49.170 --> 00:04:51.430 kept going and going. And I became the state's 00:04:51.430 --> 00:04:54.420 head researcher on the subject. Well, and it's 00:04:54.420 --> 00:04:58.560 really interesting. We have spoken to the gentlemen 00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:01.959 down in Lansing who heads up that battle flags 00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:06.019 group. Yes. And they recently had a film out 00:05:06.019 --> 00:05:08.779 on these battle flags, which is a fantastic film. 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:11.839 So we continue to recommend that to folks. Go 00:05:11.839 --> 00:05:14.959 to their website and just put in Michigan battle 00:05:14.959 --> 00:05:17.279 flags. You'll get there. You know, history is 00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:19.220 not really taught in our high schools and our 00:05:19.220 --> 00:05:21.180 colleges. And if it's taught, it's not taught 00:05:21.180 --> 00:05:25.480 in much depth. But by being in living history, 00:05:25.500 --> 00:05:28.439 if you will, in the reenactment, and feeling 00:05:28.439 --> 00:05:32.680 it, and smelling it, and having all those senses, 00:05:33.420 --> 00:05:36.319 it sort of ignited a spark and an interest, didn't 00:05:36.319 --> 00:05:39.480 it? Absolutely. I mean, you get to seeing it. 00:05:39.579 --> 00:05:42.160 as firsthand as you can, right? Because I can't 00:05:42.160 --> 00:05:43.939 travel back in time to the 1860s or to anyone 00:05:43.939 --> 00:05:46.639 else. So being able to actually go and do living 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:49.180 history programs puts you in the feeling. And 00:05:49.180 --> 00:05:52.019 not only do we do some normal programs at libraries 00:05:52.019 --> 00:05:54.639 and such, but I've gone to some more full -on 00:05:54.639 --> 00:05:56.680 intense immersive events, so to speak, where 00:05:56.680 --> 00:05:59.240 there's no crowd or you have 500 guys out in 00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:01.540 the middle of the woods. I went to Bentonville 00:06:01.540 --> 00:06:04.439 just recently with about six of my guys, and 00:06:04.439 --> 00:06:08.939 we portrayed some of the men of color who were 00:06:08.939 --> 00:06:12.040 building corduroy roads, moving supplies, lifting 00:06:12.040 --> 00:06:15.639 logs, cutting down trees. And it really put you 00:06:15.639 --> 00:06:17.160 in the experience. And one of the funny things 00:06:17.160 --> 00:06:19.819 I like to say about that is as much of that as 00:06:19.819 --> 00:06:22.120 cool as the experience was, my guys were not 00:06:22.120 --> 00:06:24.899 having it. It was not fun. I mean, you're talking 00:06:24.899 --> 00:06:28.100 like you'd march a mile or two, and then they'd 00:06:28.100 --> 00:06:29.639 stop and they'd tell all the white soldiers, 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:32.319 stack your arms such like that and then they 00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:34.240 would call us black soldiers up and say all right 00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:35.579 you guys didn't go get you know get the road 00:06:35.579 --> 00:06:37.220 fixed up ahead so we can move the move the man 00:06:37.220 --> 00:06:41.279 in the wagons and my guys were mad because everyone 00:06:41.279 --> 00:06:44.480 else was taking a break and I say as as interesting 00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:47.699 as it was to see them mad It was cool to me to 00:06:47.699 --> 00:06:50.100 see them get mad because that's what you would 00:06:50.100 --> 00:06:52.339 have saw back then in a way, right? You're seeing 00:06:52.339 --> 00:06:54.160 the difference of what was going on. I mean, 00:06:54.180 --> 00:06:57.860 firsthand to those young men. So now then going 00:06:57.860 --> 00:07:00.879 as a writer and writing about the soldiers, it 00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:02.920 gave me like a picture, you know, as I'm reading 00:07:02.920 --> 00:07:05.220 letters and piecing them in the book to gather 00:07:05.220 --> 00:07:07.720 the story, I could picture what it was like a 00:07:07.720 --> 00:07:09.579 little bit easier from someone else who had never 00:07:09.579 --> 00:07:12.139 done living history. And so your book is called 00:07:12.139 --> 00:07:15.250 The First Michigan Colored Regiment. free men 00:07:15.250 --> 00:07:19.110 who fought slavery. So put this in some context, 00:07:19.370 --> 00:07:22.769 Maurice. How many men were in the regiment? How 00:07:22.769 --> 00:07:26.889 did it even get formed? Sure. So there was 1 00:07:26.889 --> 00:07:32.459 ,400 men in the regiment, 1 ,446. To be specific, 00:07:32.819 --> 00:07:34.180 it's kind of weird that I know that off the top 00:07:34.180 --> 00:07:37.259 of my head, but that we're joining this regiment. 00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:41.399 1 ,000 of those men were freed, or excuse me, 00:07:41.660 --> 00:07:43.819 former slaves from the South who came up to Michigan 00:07:43.819 --> 00:07:46.740 and joined this regiment throughout that, you 00:07:46.740 --> 00:07:48.920 know, at some point when they moved here. But 00:07:48.920 --> 00:07:52.279 it was formed by Colonel Henry Barnes in Detroit, 00:07:52.279 --> 00:07:55.319 Michigan, who was a large abolitionist. He ran 00:07:55.319 --> 00:07:58.120 the Detroit Advertiser and Tribune, which was 00:07:58.120 --> 00:08:00.120 the abolitionist newspaper there, the Republican 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:03.509 paper. who was constantly writing about ending 00:08:03.509 --> 00:08:05.389 slavery in America, stopping the spread, and 00:08:05.389 --> 00:08:07.829 then also calling for the enlistment of black 00:08:07.829 --> 00:08:13.129 soldiers, which wasn't allowed. That was a radical 00:08:13.129 --> 00:08:16.430 idea, wasn't it? Absolutely. I mean, you're talking, 00:08:17.949 --> 00:08:20.449 basically by allowing men to join the Union Army, 00:08:20.529 --> 00:08:22.970 you're calling them equal. And even here in Michigan, 00:08:23.389 --> 00:08:25.569 people are ready for that. People do not want 00:08:25.569 --> 00:08:27.170 that. Not the entire population, I should say, 00:08:27.209 --> 00:08:31.250 wanted that. And were these men also armed? I 00:08:31.250 --> 00:08:34.690 mean, did they train as you might think an army 00:08:34.690 --> 00:08:39.149 group trains? And were they given arms and trained 00:08:39.149 --> 00:08:43.149 in how to shoot and fight and defend? So yeah, 00:08:43.250 --> 00:08:45.629 so at first, on the other parts of the nation, 00:08:45.789 --> 00:08:47.889 it started a little slow. They weren't willing 00:08:47.889 --> 00:08:51.379 to give them firearms and such. But once the 00:08:51.379 --> 00:08:53.620 Emancipation Proclamation was passed by Lincoln, 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:57.320 now they could legally raised troops, giving 00:08:57.320 --> 00:08:59.899 them arms, giving them everything, I mean, the 00:08:59.899 --> 00:09:04.100 full mighty of the U .S. government to enlist 00:09:04.100 --> 00:09:06.240 the soldiers. So they trained in Detroit at Camp 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:08.620 Ward. They got Lorenz muskets to start with, 00:09:08.740 --> 00:09:11.759 later got Springfield muskets. They did very 00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:15.490 well. And that was one of the... the thoughts, 00:09:15.669 --> 00:09:18.750 right? Are these guys going to do well? And what 00:09:18.750 --> 00:09:21.210 they found, I mean, as people learned this, if 00:09:21.210 --> 00:09:22.610 you teach them while they're going to do well, 00:09:22.889 --> 00:09:25.429 in some parts of the nation, you had white leaders, 00:09:25.570 --> 00:09:27.870 officers who didn't care, didn't feel like they 00:09:27.870 --> 00:09:29.529 could do a good job, so they didn't train them 00:09:29.529 --> 00:09:33.230 well, right? They kind of just didn't care. Michigan's 00:09:33.230 --> 00:09:37.309 soldiers. leading officers did care, and they 00:09:37.309 --> 00:09:39.129 understood that these men could make good soldiers, 00:09:39.129 --> 00:09:40.870 and they did. I mean, you can read stories in 00:09:40.870 --> 00:09:44.429 the newspaper from the 1860s about the men marching 00:09:44.429 --> 00:09:46.909 through the principal streets of Detroit, looking 00:09:46.909 --> 00:09:49.250 handsome, marching with their flag, with their 00:09:49.250 --> 00:09:52.409 arms and such shiny. So they did very, very well, 00:09:52.690 --> 00:09:54.669 making a strong presence here in Michigan, even 00:09:54.669 --> 00:09:57.649 going so far to when they went niles to the reporter 00:09:57.649 --> 00:09:59.490 who was writing about the regiments coming for 00:09:59.490 --> 00:10:02.129 a visit on a recruiting tour, and there's a couple 00:10:02.129 --> 00:10:04.309 of copperheads who are - aren't in favor of this, 00:10:04.809 --> 00:10:07.190 who are basically looking forward to dispatching 00:10:07.190 --> 00:10:08.409 the guy. They can't wait till they get there 00:10:08.409 --> 00:10:10.929 so they can laugh them off. And the reporter 00:10:10.929 --> 00:10:14.429 then wrote, after they left, these copperheads 00:10:14.429 --> 00:10:19.750 were blown away. They were so thrown that they 00:10:19.750 --> 00:10:22.889 didn't have any words. I mean, they changed their 00:10:22.889 --> 00:10:24.429 mind. Because all they're reading is the stuff 00:10:24.429 --> 00:10:26.690 in the paper, right? Stuff nationally. Oh, they 00:10:26.690 --> 00:10:28.210 don't make good soldiers. Oh, they have their 00:10:28.210 --> 00:10:30.789 own opinions. But once they saw it firsthand, 00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:33.700 That opinion completely changed, and that stood 00:10:33.700 --> 00:10:36.340 the test of time when 180 ,000 black soldiers 00:10:36.340 --> 00:10:38.480 nationally took up arms and fought to end slavery 00:10:38.480 --> 00:10:40.940 in America. Well, and that's something I wanted 00:10:40.940 --> 00:10:43.960 to get across too, because you got to put this 00:10:43.960 --> 00:10:46.299 in some context. I don't think, you know, again, 00:10:46.299 --> 00:10:48.360 we don't teach history, so this is going all 00:10:48.360 --> 00:10:52.159 the way back to the Civil War. But 180 to its 00:10:52.159 --> 00:10:55.340 estimated 200 ,000 African Americans fought for 00:10:55.340 --> 00:10:58.559 the Union in the Civil War that made up 10 percent 00:10:58.559 --> 00:11:03.250 of the Army. Today, in today's army, there are 00:11:03.250 --> 00:11:08.509 95 ,000 African Americans in active duty, and 00:11:08.509 --> 00:11:12.250 that makes up 20 % of today's army. So there's 00:11:12.250 --> 00:11:17.529 been a long continuous line of African Americans 00:11:17.529 --> 00:11:21.549 in the army fighting and supporting this country. 00:11:22.009 --> 00:11:24.769 And when you go back to this point in time in 00:11:24.769 --> 00:11:27.549 the Civil War where this was sort of the beginning 00:11:27.549 --> 00:11:33.659 and unusual, How did it work that they got called 00:11:33.659 --> 00:11:35.580 out of Michigan, and where did they go, and what 00:11:35.580 --> 00:11:39.980 did they do? Sure. So since they were a federal 00:11:39.980 --> 00:11:42.799 regiment, or the color troops, I should say, 00:11:42.860 --> 00:11:45.120 were federal regiments, they were segregated. 00:11:45.639 --> 00:11:47.600 So they were kind of raised as a state militia, 00:11:47.740 --> 00:11:50.059 as many of the other units were, the 21st Michigan 00:11:50.059 --> 00:11:52.820 Infantry, 20th, et cetera. So they were raised 00:11:52.820 --> 00:11:55.299 as the first Michigan colored regiment. However, 00:11:55.399 --> 00:11:57.919 once they got to D .C. in the Maryland area, 00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:01.620 They became federalized with the Bureau of the 00:12:01.620 --> 00:12:06.139 United States Colored Troops segregated. So like 00:12:06.139 --> 00:12:07.720 another branch of the Army, so speaking of today's 00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:10.509 times. So they became, or re -designated, I should 00:12:10.509 --> 00:12:13.730 say, as the 102nd United States Colored Troops. 00:12:13.909 --> 00:12:15.789 And that's that people often get confused, are 00:12:15.789 --> 00:12:17.389 they two different groups? You know, no, that's 00:12:17.389 --> 00:12:19.830 one unit, they just had their name changed. And 00:12:19.830 --> 00:12:22.450 the men actually didn't like that. You know, 00:12:22.509 --> 00:12:25.370 while they liked being soldiers in the army and 00:12:25.370 --> 00:12:26.990 really respected, I mean, being federal troops 00:12:26.990 --> 00:12:29.190 too, as well, it gives you even more power, right? 00:12:30.490 --> 00:12:32.929 They felt disrespected that they were these... 00:12:32.679 --> 00:12:35.460 Colored soldiers. And I tell people, imagine 00:12:35.460 --> 00:12:37.220 there was a battle taking place. And if you can 00:12:37.220 --> 00:12:38.500 think of stories like this where you've heard, 00:12:38.659 --> 00:12:40.799 right? Imagine there's a battle taking place 00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:43.820 and the 20th Michigan infantry whips the Rebs, 00:12:43.879 --> 00:12:46.500 right? They destroy the flank and they whip them 00:12:46.500 --> 00:12:49.139 down the hill and they've ran them off. And the 00:12:49.139 --> 00:12:50.659 other unit nearby, the Illinois guys would say, 00:12:50.700 --> 00:12:53.240 wow, those 20th Michigan boys, wow, they really 00:12:53.240 --> 00:12:55.000 whipped them and they saved the day, et cetera. 00:12:55.580 --> 00:12:58.039 Well, in this case, now they just became the 00:12:58.039 --> 00:12:59.399 colored soldiers, right? They don't know where 00:12:59.399 --> 00:13:01.720 they're from. They're no longer the Wolverine 00:13:01.720 --> 00:13:03.799 state, right? They're just the colored troops. 00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:07.039 So they felt a little upset about that, but they 00:13:07.039 --> 00:13:09.779 still carried on that legacy of going by the 00:13:09.779 --> 00:13:11.480 first Michigan colored troops where they could. 00:13:12.250 --> 00:13:15.889 Well in the importance of being federalized and 00:13:15.889 --> 00:13:18.610 that recognition again at the time may not have 00:13:18.610 --> 00:13:21.509 seemed like much but it opened up a lot of different 00:13:21.509 --> 00:13:23.970 opportunities including there's a in Arlington 00:13:23.970 --> 00:13:27.889 National Cemetery there's a whole plot of graves 00:13:27.889 --> 00:13:31.250 related to those from the United States Colored 00:13:31.250 --> 00:13:35.649 Troops and they lost a little bit probably of 00:13:35.649 --> 00:13:41.039 that feeling of relationship to Abraham Lincoln's 00:13:41.039 --> 00:13:44.059 famous quote, thank God for Michigan, right? 00:13:45.159 --> 00:13:47.860 The context of that is Michigan sending troops 00:13:47.860 --> 00:13:51.440 to aid the Union cause early on in the process. 00:13:52.919 --> 00:13:55.399 Where did the research come from? Talk to us 00:13:55.399 --> 00:13:59.200 about, it really takes years of combing through 00:13:59.200 --> 00:14:03.019 things to get this book to where you say, okay, 00:14:03.059 --> 00:14:05.220 now I got the history right, let me get it out 00:14:05.220 --> 00:14:09.950 in public. Right. I started researching the newspapers, 00:14:10.230 --> 00:14:12.289 the Detroit Advertiser and Tribune, or I should 00:14:12.289 --> 00:14:14.289 say the Detroit Free Press. That's an interesting 00:14:14.289 --> 00:14:16.690 story in itself. I started with the Detroit Free 00:14:16.690 --> 00:14:18.509 Press because it was available online through 00:14:18.509 --> 00:14:21.210 newspapers .com, which means historians will 00:14:21.210 --> 00:14:24.309 know. And I was reading all about the regiment, 00:14:24.509 --> 00:14:25.950 finding these different stories through the paper 00:14:25.950 --> 00:14:28.230 and such like that. And I'll be honest, I couldn't 00:14:28.230 --> 00:14:30.970 believe what I was reading because the Detroit 00:14:30.970 --> 00:14:33.820 Free Press bashed this regiment. I mean, they 00:14:33.820 --> 00:14:35.899 have to go on a march and say they tore up the 00:14:35.899 --> 00:14:39.000 city. Nobody wants them here. You know, why is 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:40.860 Michigan even raising the troops? You know, they 00:14:40.860 --> 00:14:42.580 got their muskets, they threw them on the ground, 00:14:42.659 --> 00:14:46.000 so to speak. And what I learned, as a younger 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:48.559 guy, what I was missing there was that this was 00:14:48.559 --> 00:14:51.120 the Democratic paper, which was not in favor 00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:54.279 of having colored troops. So in a media point 00:14:54.279 --> 00:14:56.919 of view, they wanted to tell the public that 00:14:56.919 --> 00:14:59.700 this was bad. And when I discovered the Detroit 00:14:59.700 --> 00:15:02.639 Advertiser and Tribune, it was a day and night. 00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:07.000 It's between the stories. And that lesson rings 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:09.799 true today, right? Absolutely. I tell people, 00:15:09.940 --> 00:15:11.460 I don't want to put anyone on blast, but you 00:15:11.460 --> 00:15:13.639 put Fox and CNN on, and sometimes you get completely 00:15:13.639 --> 00:15:15.340 different stories. Absolutely. And that is what 00:15:15.340 --> 00:15:18.820 you kind of see a little bit there. And so, yeah, 00:15:18.820 --> 00:15:20.600 and I do as well as a historian, you know, I 00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:22.360 make sure I'm reading through the bias, because 00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:24.740 even the advertising tribune is going to have 00:15:24.740 --> 00:15:27.460 a little bit of a bias, right? So and I show 00:15:27.460 --> 00:15:30.600 that in my book. I do a chapter, I believe it's 00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:32.899 called Trouble at Camp Ward, which goes over 00:15:32.899 --> 00:15:35.059 a lot of the mischief that the soldiers did get 00:15:35.059 --> 00:15:39.120 themselves into. A variety of mischief or a robbery. 00:15:39.700 --> 00:15:42.059 They got into fights at the camp. I got news 00:15:42.059 --> 00:15:45.480 for you. Put a bunch of young bucks together 00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:49.299 in the Army. There isn't an Army camp around 00:15:49.299 --> 00:15:51.600 that hasn't had those problems. Let's back up 00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:53.960 because you've mentioned it twice and I'm not 00:15:53.960 --> 00:15:57.590 familiar with it. Where was Camp Ward? It doesn't 00:15:57.590 --> 00:16:00.269 exist anymore today. People may know Fort Wayne, 00:16:00.710 --> 00:16:04.289 but tell us a little bit about Camp Ward in Detroit. 00:16:04.970 --> 00:16:08.389 Yes, Camp Ward was located where I believe, and 00:16:08.389 --> 00:16:10.529 I'm not from Detroit, so I don't know how it, 00:16:10.870 --> 00:16:13.970 they've changed the name a few times. Ralph Bunch 00:16:13.970 --> 00:16:16.750 Elementary School. There is an elementary school 00:16:16.750 --> 00:16:19.210 there and some tennis courts and some apartments 00:16:19.210 --> 00:16:21.669 nearby. And the historical marker is located 00:16:21.669 --> 00:16:23.809 in the back of that elementary school by a little 00:16:23.809 --> 00:16:27.850 roundabout. There's another good example. There's 00:16:27.850 --> 00:16:31.149 another good example, Maurice Samloff. of we 00:16:31.149 --> 00:16:33.230 don't pay any attention to history. We stuck 00:16:33.230 --> 00:16:35.629 that marker around back, nobody will ever see 00:16:35.629 --> 00:16:38.580 it. Yeah, it's an interesting spot. I don't know 00:16:38.580 --> 00:16:41.299 exactly why that location specifically was chosen. 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:43.580 And two, I did have a little bit of conflicting 00:16:43.580 --> 00:16:46.200 research about where the camp was actually sitting 00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:47.799 at. It looks like it may mean even my opinion, 00:16:47.799 --> 00:16:49.200 at least, that was actually sitting a little 00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:51.919 more closer to Elmwood Cemetery when I was comparing 00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:54.580 the maps. But I don't know, I wasn't there. They 00:16:54.580 --> 00:16:56.559 had a neat little side story there, too, actually. 00:16:56.899 --> 00:17:00.100 That historical marker was dedicated in 1968, 00:17:00.340 --> 00:17:03.830 I believe. I'll top my head. If you know Detroit, 00:17:04.230 --> 00:17:08.529 there was a significant event in 1967. So this 00:17:08.529 --> 00:17:11.490 historical marker was actually a part of rebuilding 00:17:11.490 --> 00:17:14.690 that black community in Detroit, rebuilding everyone 00:17:14.690 --> 00:17:18.150 coming back together as a community. The governor 00:17:18.150 --> 00:17:21.130 was there, leaders of the NAACP were there. So 00:17:21.130 --> 00:17:23.329 this was kind of a way to look back at our history 00:17:23.329 --> 00:17:26.089 and see how far we have come in honor of that 00:17:26.089 --> 00:17:30.369 history in a way. Yeah, I'm seeing online that 00:17:30.369 --> 00:17:33.490 Camp Ward was on Detroit's east side where the 00:17:33.490 --> 00:17:36.210 Black Bottom neighborhood once stood, which got 00:17:36.210 --> 00:17:40.769 raised for some urban development plan. And there 00:17:40.769 --> 00:17:43.569 is some archaeological work going on trying to 00:17:43.569 --> 00:17:46.170 find more about the remnants of the camp and 00:17:46.170 --> 00:17:48.809 that sort of thing. So again, we lose our history. 00:17:49.130 --> 00:17:52.029 That's why books like First Michigan Colored 00:17:52.029 --> 00:17:55.089 Regiment, Free Men Who Fought Slavery, is so 00:17:55.089 --> 00:17:59.640 important. Maurice, the men ended up fighting 00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:02.380 out of state at a couple of different battles. 00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:04.799 Can you tell us about that a little more specifically? 00:18:06.019 --> 00:18:08.539 Sure. They fought a variety of different engagements 00:18:08.539 --> 00:18:12.000 in the South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida area. 00:18:12.599 --> 00:18:14.140 And before I dive into that, I'd like to state, 00:18:14.220 --> 00:18:16.059 like I used to say a little earlier, is these 00:18:16.059 --> 00:18:17.880 men were fighting for a different cause than 00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:20.500 all the other, the rest of the Army. The African 00:18:20.500 --> 00:18:22.579 American men, the African American men in the 00:18:22.579 --> 00:18:25.359 Army were fighting for freedom. And that, I mean, 00:18:25.500 --> 00:18:27.019 that's, I mean, no doubt about it. That's what 00:18:27.019 --> 00:18:29.420 these guys are fighting for. Of course they want 00:18:29.420 --> 00:18:31.400 to preserve the union and there's a whole, right? 00:18:31.619 --> 00:18:34.039 But these men were fighting for freedom and liberty. 00:18:34.420 --> 00:18:36.059 They're fighting to, and we said that we're fighting 00:18:36.059 --> 00:18:39.000 to free other people, right? But let's look closer 00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:42.039 into that as an 18 year old who made their way 00:18:42.039 --> 00:18:45.140 out of slavery and up to a free state. They're 00:18:45.140 --> 00:18:47.660 going back and why are they joining? To free 00:18:47.660 --> 00:18:50.250 their mom. to free their dad, their girlfriend, 00:18:50.650 --> 00:18:53.289 their best friends who are still left in slavery. 00:18:53.710 --> 00:18:55.670 That's what these guys are fighting for. That's 00:18:55.670 --> 00:18:58.589 what they're thinking about. They're not thinking 00:18:58.589 --> 00:19:00.609 about American government. That's right. That's 00:19:00.609 --> 00:19:03.789 a powerful way to look at it. And I suspect maybe 00:19:03.789 --> 00:19:07.789 in your reviewing letters and research, there 00:19:07.789 --> 00:19:10.990 was a certain element of respect too involved 00:19:10.990 --> 00:19:14.529 in what they were doing. They were... earning 00:19:14.529 --> 00:19:17.450 the respect that they were entitled to. Were 00:19:17.450 --> 00:19:20.410 you able to find personal letters or journals 00:19:20.410 --> 00:19:24.490 or anything of that sort? Absolutely. There was 00:19:24.490 --> 00:19:27.109 a couple good letters that came across to me, 00:19:27.309 --> 00:19:30.210 a collection. Sharon, if I'm pronouncing that 00:19:30.210 --> 00:19:33.630 right, came across a great collection. I'm blanking 00:19:33.630 --> 00:19:36.190 on his name of one African -American soldier 00:19:36.190 --> 00:19:39.690 who was in the ranks. And then there was another 00:19:39.690 --> 00:19:43.200 collection by Sherry. Oh, I'm like, I feel so 00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:46.140 bad. Sherry, she came across the collection and 00:19:46.140 --> 00:19:48.559 transcribed some another. soldiers letters. I 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:50.500 believe it was Alonzo Reed. But then there were 00:19:50.500 --> 00:19:53.859 a couple officers. And one of my favorites was 00:19:53.859 --> 00:19:56.180 a surgeon. He was a white surgeon, younger guy. 00:19:56.500 --> 00:20:00.039 And he had a collection of letters he was writing 00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:02.519 back and forth to his wife. And which made this 00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:04.079 even better was he was writing back and forth 00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:06.740 to his wife. And he was knowledgeable. He knew 00:20:06.740 --> 00:20:08.740 how to read and write very well. And he shared 00:20:08.740 --> 00:20:12.160 every bit of his opinions. And what I mean by 00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:14.019 that, too, is you can think of a friend of yours 00:20:14.019 --> 00:20:16.400 who gets too into politics and you ask one question 00:20:16.400 --> 00:20:19.150 and they're giving you a whole big load of how 00:20:19.150 --> 00:20:21.750 they feel. That was this guy. He gave you a big 00:20:21.750 --> 00:20:23.890 load of how he felt, but that was perfect. Cause 00:20:23.890 --> 00:20:27.269 you're seeing right into how he feels. And at 00:20:27.269 --> 00:20:29.589 times at first, honestly, he didn't like black 00:20:29.589 --> 00:20:33.029 men. It seemed that he was very, um, new to it. 00:20:33.150 --> 00:20:34.230 I would say he didn't like them. I shall back 00:20:34.230 --> 00:20:36.829 that up. He was very new to it. He was fun. They 00:20:36.829 --> 00:20:38.970 hadn't been around a very many, many black men. 00:20:39.069 --> 00:20:41.789 So when he got um into the into the regiment 00:20:41.789 --> 00:20:43.769 he got he referred to them to the hard r the 00:20:43.769 --> 00:20:46.089 n -word you know he he didn't know these guys 00:20:46.089 --> 00:20:48.750 and through his time through the lives back and 00:20:48.750 --> 00:20:50.869 forth you see his opinion changes and it changes 00:20:50.869 --> 00:20:54.029 quickly you know calling them brothers and and 00:20:54.029 --> 00:20:56.269 mad at the white men who he interacted with who 00:20:56.269 --> 00:20:58.630 bashed his men you know treated them differently 00:20:58.630 --> 00:21:01.390 you know he he was that was a golden knife well 00:21:01.390 --> 00:21:03.410 yeah that i was just gonna say that was the term 00:21:03.410 --> 00:21:06.640 i was gonna use for historian writing those Personal 00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:09.799 letters are just gold because they give you a 00:21:09.799 --> 00:21:12.940 context you otherwise wouldn't have. But I interrupted 00:21:12.940 --> 00:21:15.619 you. They get down to South Carolina, which is 00:21:15.619 --> 00:21:18.339 a long way from Detroit, Georgia and Florida. 00:21:18.700 --> 00:21:21.880 Talk about those battles as well. Yeah, so their 00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:25.420 first battle is going to be down the road from 00:21:25.420 --> 00:21:29.380 Olustee, Florida near Jacksonville in a place 00:21:29.380 --> 00:21:32.579 called, oh man, why do I? I usually know these 00:21:32.579 --> 00:21:35.299 names so well, and I'm blanking on the name of 00:21:35.299 --> 00:21:38.200 it, but it's just past Olustee, Florida. And 00:21:38.200 --> 00:21:40.220 I'm sorry, I just can't think of the name of 00:21:40.220 --> 00:21:42.440 it, but it's a small engagement, so to speak 00:21:42.440 --> 00:21:44.940 anyways. So they're down there in Northern Florida 00:21:44.940 --> 00:21:47.319 and they're tearing up railroads and they start 00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:49.519 to get Baldwin, Florida. Thank you. It's between 00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:52.539 Jacksonville and Olustee, Baldwin, Florida. And 00:21:52.539 --> 00:21:54.920 they're tearing up these railroad tracks to try 00:21:54.920 --> 00:21:57.670 to stop. the Confederate advance and supplies. 00:21:58.250 --> 00:22:00.029 And they began to hear this noise. That noise 00:22:00.029 --> 00:22:02.390 goes louder and louder. But before they know 00:22:02.390 --> 00:22:04.349 it, I've been down to this area. It's thick pine 00:22:04.349 --> 00:22:07.109 trees, national forest woods. Before they know 00:22:07.109 --> 00:22:09.089 it, there's rebel cavalry pouring out of the 00:22:09.089 --> 00:22:13.309 woodwork, attacking them. This regiment is now 00:22:13.309 --> 00:22:14.890 in a little bit of panic, right? They've never 00:22:14.890 --> 00:22:18.420 seen combat. ever. The white officers who are 00:22:18.420 --> 00:22:20.960 leading these men have never seen their men fight. 00:22:21.160 --> 00:22:24.140 And if anything, they've been told by their comrades 00:22:24.140 --> 00:22:26.819 have been told by their friends at home, these 00:22:26.819 --> 00:22:28.519 guys are going to drop their guns or they're 00:22:28.519 --> 00:22:30.119 going to run and you're going to die. You're 00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:32.400 a fool for joining this regiment. So they're 00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:38.000 nervous. What happens? The 102nd fixes their 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:41.859 bayonets, fires a volley into the cavalry and 00:22:41.859 --> 00:22:46.170 easily repels them and Not only do they fire 00:22:46.170 --> 00:22:49.950 a volley, after they fired, everyone's now empty, 00:22:50.170 --> 00:22:52.430 right? Everyone is completely empty. What do 00:22:52.430 --> 00:22:56.109 they decide to do? They charge the cavalry by 00:22:56.109 --> 00:22:59.289 hand and easily repel them off without losing 00:22:59.289 --> 00:23:03.210 one man. And that told these white officers and 00:23:03.210 --> 00:23:05.650 everyone around, these men are here to do business, 00:23:05.670 --> 00:23:09.109 I tell people. So that's their first engagement. 00:23:10.039 --> 00:23:11.920 Up to their largest one at the Battle of Honey 00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:15.880 Hill, they see some other small fights back and 00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:19.079 forth in the area. They fight next to the 54th 00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:21.819 and 55th Massachusetts, very famously known for 00:23:21.819 --> 00:23:24.519 the movie Glory. Denzel Washington, Morgan Freeman. 00:23:25.079 --> 00:23:27.880 So they have some engagements in there and potter's 00:23:27.880 --> 00:23:30.640 raid going through, trying to slow down the Confederate 00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:33.920 advance again, make them want to stop fighting 00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:37.059 by messing up these towns a little bit. But their 00:23:37.059 --> 00:23:39.700 largest and most famous battle is the Battle 00:23:39.700 --> 00:23:43.660 of Honey Hill, South Carolina, where the regiment 00:23:43.660 --> 00:23:47.119 helps to return three cannons back from the battlefield. 00:23:47.259 --> 00:23:50.160 Union guns that had been decimated, the men had 00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:53.039 been. So they rush up, they grab the cannons. 00:23:53.549 --> 00:23:56.549 and they wheel them back while under fire. And 00:23:56.549 --> 00:23:58.029 what I mean by that is these men are literally 00:23:58.029 --> 00:24:00.190 getting shot in the arm and in the leg while 00:24:00.190 --> 00:24:03.630 moving these guns in the woods, mind you as well. 00:24:03.990 --> 00:24:08.109 And for that Orson W. Bennett, who led that charge, 00:24:08.630 --> 00:24:12.130 was awarded the Medal of Honor. Now Orson W. 00:24:12.250 --> 00:24:14.690 Bennett was a white man. who was awarded the 00:24:14.690 --> 00:24:17.630 Medal of Honor. None of the Black soldiers were 00:24:17.630 --> 00:24:19.849 awarded the Medal of Honor for that action. However, 00:24:20.069 --> 00:24:22.710 I think no one discredits the work that he did 00:24:22.710 --> 00:24:25.529 to be able to lead that charge. Well, that's 00:24:25.529 --> 00:24:30.589 interesting. And there's a long history of African 00:24:30.589 --> 00:24:34.549 -American soldiers not getting recognized for 00:24:34.549 --> 00:24:38.930 doing more than others in battle all the way 00:24:38.930 --> 00:24:42.809 up to most recently the name that comes to my 00:24:42.809 --> 00:24:46.410 mind is Paris Davis in Vietnam whose Medal of 00:24:46.410 --> 00:24:48.329 Honor package kept getting lost four or five 00:24:48.329 --> 00:24:52.130 times before it finally enough people got behind 00:24:52.130 --> 00:24:55.650 it and proved it up and and he got it so very 00:24:55.650 --> 00:24:59.990 interesting that Orson Bennett got the recognition. 00:25:00.750 --> 00:25:04.609 When you got done researching this and writing 00:25:04.609 --> 00:25:11.349 this, what's your hope or expectation for capturing 00:25:11.349 --> 00:25:15.910 this history? My hope is that it's not lost. 00:25:16.009 --> 00:25:18.190 And that's kind of what it had been for a period 00:25:18.190 --> 00:25:20.730 of time, really, until the 80s, when these African 00:25:20.730 --> 00:25:22.630 -American living historians got involved in Lansing 00:25:22.630 --> 00:25:25.549 and wanted to share this history. And the story 00:25:25.549 --> 00:25:28.329 gets told. When I think about that as a young 00:25:28.329 --> 00:25:31.859 man who is a descendant of slaves from Georgia, 00:25:32.259 --> 00:25:35.099 I think about how all of those young men, including 00:25:35.099 --> 00:25:37.859 older men, right, joined this. I mean, they gave 00:25:37.859 --> 00:25:39.759 up their freedom. I mean, they were literally 00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:42.660 just free. I mean, think of if you're born into 00:25:42.660 --> 00:25:45.160 a prison and then you get out of that prison 00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:47.819 and the first thing you do is go back and potentially 00:25:47.819 --> 00:25:50.140 be put back in that prison. Let's get some scary 00:25:50.140 --> 00:25:53.259 stuff. All of these guys who put their freedom 00:25:53.259 --> 00:25:55.119 on the line and their life on the line and then 00:25:55.119 --> 00:25:58.380 sacrifice their life, obviously as well. for 00:25:58.380 --> 00:26:00.619 freedom, to have what we have today. I mean, 00:26:00.819 --> 00:26:03.440 I think, you know, sometimes we don't need to 00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:05.140 always focus on the past. It's important that 00:26:05.140 --> 00:26:07.019 we move forward as a country and move forward 00:26:07.019 --> 00:26:09.740 as a society. But sometimes we need to think 00:26:09.740 --> 00:26:12.220 back about how we have these, why we have these 00:26:12.220 --> 00:26:14.059 freedoms. I mean, I go to the store, I can get 00:26:14.059 --> 00:26:16.160 a McDonald's hamburger. I don't know, I go to 00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:18.259 Meyer. I mean, just I can live my regular day 00:26:18.259 --> 00:26:23.910 life. But how did I earn that? How did we get 00:26:23.910 --> 00:26:27.150 to that point? And without the sacrifices of 00:26:27.150 --> 00:26:30.230 our soldiers from all of these wars, I wouldn't 00:26:30.230 --> 00:26:32.799 be able to do that. And that's why I think it 00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:35.380 is so important that we think about it. That's 00:26:35.380 --> 00:26:39.299 why I'm honored to have a group of 40 young students, 00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:40.819 all high school and college students with me 00:26:40.819 --> 00:26:43.440 who teach this history in our living history 00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:46.420 group. And we want to be able to share not only 00:26:46.420 --> 00:26:49.599 to the general public, but to our fellow brothers 00:26:49.599 --> 00:26:52.240 and sisters that we need to cherish this history. 00:26:52.619 --> 00:26:54.819 So that's my biggest hope, that it will continue 00:26:54.819 --> 00:26:58.859 to be cherished, shared, and people learn that 00:26:58.859 --> 00:27:01.140 African -American men were the victors of the 00:27:01.069 --> 00:27:02.990 Civil War, not the victims. I mean, these guys 00:27:02.990 --> 00:27:06.170 took up arms and they did their fair share. No, 00:27:06.210 --> 00:27:10.150 that's a great message we should learn from this 00:27:10.150 --> 00:27:13.869 history and apply it today. Maurice Imhoff, I 00:27:13.869 --> 00:27:16.650 really appreciate you taking some time today 00:27:16.650 --> 00:27:19.769 to talk about this history, to talk about the 00:27:19.769 --> 00:27:22.430 First Michigan Colored Regiment, free men who 00:27:22.430 --> 00:27:25.789 fought slavery, and congratulate you on getting 00:27:25.789 --> 00:27:29.690 this out and keep up the good work. Well, thank 00:27:29.690 --> 00:27:31.710 you so much. I never intended really on having 00:27:31.710 --> 00:27:34.490 a publication, but you know, it came to me and 00:27:34.490 --> 00:27:36.869 I had everything sitting in a pile and it was 00:27:36.869 --> 00:27:38.910 the time is now and I'm really happy with how 00:27:38.910 --> 00:27:43.569 it came out. Excellent. Thanks. Thank you. And 00:27:43.569 --> 00:27:45.589 I want to thank everybody for listening to Veterans 00:27:45.589 --> 00:27:49.430 Radio today. I am Jim Fossone. It's been a pleasure 00:27:49.430 --> 00:27:52.009 to be your host. I'm a Veterans disability lawyer 00:27:52.009 --> 00:27:54.809 at Legal Help for Veterans and you can reach 00:27:54.809 --> 00:28:00.789 us at 800 - 693 -4800 or legalhelpforveterans 00:28:00.789 --> 00:28:03.990 .com on the web. You can follow Veterans Radio 00:28:03.990 --> 00:28:07.309 on Facebook and listen to its podcasts and internet 00:28:07.309 --> 00:28:11.910 radio shows by visiting us at veteransradio .org. 00:28:12.109 --> 00:28:15.829 That's veteransradio .org. We again want to thank 00:28:15.829 --> 00:28:18.930 our national sponsors, the National Veterans 00:28:18.930 --> 00:28:24.390 Business Development Council, NVBDC .org, Legal 00:28:24.390 --> 00:28:27.779 Help for Veterans, A Veterans Disability Law 00:28:27.779 --> 00:28:32.859 Firm with a national practice before the VA can 00:28:32.859 --> 00:28:36.539 help you on your claims and your appeals. It 00:28:36.539 --> 00:28:39.900 can be reached at LegalHelpForVeterans .com or 00:28:39.900 --> 00:28:45.380 1 -800 -693 -4800. We also want to thank our 00:28:45.380 --> 00:28:50.380 local sponsors. This would include the Charles 00:28:50.380 --> 00:28:54.220 S. Kettles chapter of the Vietnam Veterans of 00:28:54.220 --> 00:28:58.940 America, that's chapter 310, VFW Graf O 'Hara 00:28:58.940 --> 00:29:03.119 post 423, the American Legion Erwin Preskin post 00:29:03.119 --> 00:29:06.779 46 in Ann Arbor as well, the VA Ann Arbor Health 00:29:06.779 --> 00:29:09.819 Care System, and certainly the National Vietnam 00:29:09.819 --> 00:29:13.180 Veterans of America Association. You can be a 00:29:13.180 --> 00:29:15.900 sponsor by going to veteransradio .org, clicking 00:29:15.900 --> 00:29:20.029 on the about us and our sponsors and help us 00:29:20.029 --> 00:29:25.150 out. Keep this program alive for the 21 and 22 00:29:25.150 --> 00:29:28.349 years. Keep us going for another 20. Thank you.