All across America and around the world, this
is Veterans Radio. This is Veterans Radio. Good
day. I'm Jim Fossone. I'm the Officer of the
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you're going to find it informative. We want
to welcome to Veterans Radio today, an Army veteran
of some 30 years, Will Brock, who was a Chief
Warrant Officer for retiring in 2023. Will, welcome
to Veterans Radio. Well, thank you, Jim, for
the invite. It's an honor to be on today, sir.
Well, we're going to talk about your experience
with equine therapy, but let me set this up a
little bit, as I said to our audience. Will served
for 30 years in the Army. He did four tours of
duty overseas, including Iraq, Afghanistan, and
Syria. Along the way, he collected two bronze
stars, meritorious service medal, a combat action
badge. But in his non -military career, he's
been a journeyman lineman with IBEW, and he's
awfully happy he's not out servicing electrical
grids in southeast Michigan in the freezer weather
we have at the moment. But I also became a small
business owner in the home care business. Has
a local visiting angels offices in southeast
Michigan. He's been elected to the Michigan House
of Representatives and is serving district 30.
Got a family and a lot of active involvement
in things like disabled American veterans, veterans
of foreign wars, Little Blessings Veterans and
Community Outreach and the Rotary Club. Will,
I don't know how you have time for it all, but
again, the focus today will be on equine therapy.
So again, thanks for joining us. No, I appreciate
the introduction and yeah, I got a lot of experiences
and hopefully, you know, that comes with a lot
of baggage to it at times when you're talking
combat tours and such, but you know, working
with equine therapy and Little Blessings Veteran
Outreach, I sit on the board as the president
currently for the last two years. And so it's
an honor to talk today about equine therapy.
Well, you know, let's jump off there because
you mentioned, you know, that much time and the
comeback tours. It's not unusual. Somebody has
a little bit, as you refer to it, baggage, PTS
in particular. Tell us about what baggage you
had and what led you to try equine therapy. Wow,
that's a loaded question. You know, they say
nobody goes to war and comes back the same. No,
you know, it took me three tours before I believe
that to be honest, it was, you know, a lot of
rejection of changes within, you know, my own
psyche, you know, you have physical issues, anyone
that served 30 plus years in the military, you're
going to have physical ailments and issues. But
when you're faced with the situations and the
environment that you're put into being in combat
that it also changes you mentally whether you
are aware or admitted or not and so coming home
it was you know I was in Iraq in 03 and 04 I
called the Wild West and you know came home and
I I thought I was the same looking back I wasn't
you know I went again in 09 back to Iraq and
you know came home even more different but yet
refusing you know, to admit that. I went to Afghanistan
in 15, 14, 15, and then when I came home, the
wheels fell off. And I still refuse, you know,
to get help. I refuse to admit that I had a problem.
It just caused expounded difficulties between
family. You failed to mention I have nine children.
My wife and I have nine together. All natural
born, you know, all our own. Well, in your story
up until the nine children is pretty typical.
I mean it's it's it's all the Guys and gals who've
done these multiple rotations. You're gonna you
know things change and you May not believe that
but your family sees it and the family starts
saying hey, man You know you got to get a little
help talk to somebody and I suspect that's what
was going on I mean, there was a time or two,
you know, with my spouse, Natalie, she's a saint,
she's endured so much, you know, that she said,
you have to get help. And I would get help to
the degree that it satisfied her needs. You know,
but at the time, you know, I take a time period
after 2015, you know, for 10 plus years, I lived,
I lived with bitterness and with no regret for
anything that I did. You know, in 2020, I went
back for my fourth tour, Iraq and Syria. You
know, honestly, I went back, I told my wife I
was going back to get fixed. You know, as stupid
as that sounds now, but that was my mentality,
like, I'm going to go get fixed. And, you know,
I came back thinking I was fixed. I got my last
tour in and, you know, you mentioned my daughter
wrote the book during that time I was deployed
in 2020 -21. my family started going through
Little Blessings. My wife actually started before
I deployed in 2020. For three months, she was
going weekly to Little Blessings for horse equine
therapy. And I didn't know she was even going
until she told me after three months. And that's
how irrelevant and detached I was for my family.
And I say that with regret now, but until really
recently, I had no regrets on that. And even
up until current point, I, you know, my kids
went through the program in 21. They started
the kids program, an 18 week program. The adult
program is 50 weeks. So it's a whole year long.
But when I came back from Iraq in 21, I saw my
kids, it helped me. I started to get involved
with Little Blessings, but still did not. did
not address the issues, the root issues of bitterness
and PTSD and the anger and the lack of guilt.
And then actually December of last year, I enrolled
into the program. So I'm actually new at the,
you know, I was president of the organization,
but yet, you know, having never been through
the program. But last December, prior to Christmas,
you know, we we as a family get a point where
I finally admit it, I need help that I haven't
been getting. And so I'm actually about five
weeks into the program right now. So that's kind
of current, that's 25 years and two minutes.
Yeah, it's impossible to do justice to the story
and the time we have here in this interview.
But I think it's important because people Don't
be surprised, ashamed, rooted into the ground
if you don't, quote unquote, fix yourself right
away. It takes years to get to the point where
you find something. First off, that you admit
that hey, I need to do something and you find
something that works for you. And for some people,
equine therapy may be the thing that works. Now,
you live and your family lives in a... rural
area, got a little, you know, you might call
it a hobby farm. But what led them, what led
Natalie to equine therapy and why did you ultimately
go, yeah, you know, maybe I need to get with
the program. Well, what brought her to it was
the inability to cope with what I wasn't coping
with. That's what brought her to the table. She
met Jamie Paxson, who started Little Blessings
in about 2018. And that's what drew Natalie to
the program. And it gave her a lot of things
in her toolbox on how to deal with a veteran
being married to a veteran. She now leads a spouse
group that meets every other week at Little Blessings.
My kids get into the program. And when I came
home at 21, I saw my kids in a program and I
remember crying, watching my kids, you know,
seeing and talking to the mental health specialist,
you know, that was explaining the issues, the
problems that my kids were having. And at that
point, I knew that my problems, my PTSD was,
in a sense, being transcended to my family. Now,
I wasn't to the point where I cared enough to
fix myself, but... I was successful at business,
I was a chief foreign officer for, nobody's gonna
tell me what to do. I was successful in the military
as well as civilian life as a reservist. But
bringing me to the table was, we brought 30 some
vets through this program, year long program
at Little Blessings. And it has changed the life
of multiple families, all these families, not
just the vet, but the whole family. Well, let
me give the life to do it. Let me give the full
name of it. It's Little Blessings Veterans and
Community Outreach, if I've got it right. And
Jamie Paxton, who you referred to, who I think
is the executive director, she did 25 years in
the United States Air Force and came out as a
first sergeant. So again, somebody who's been
there and knows the personality of somebody who
says, I'm a chief warrant officer, what the hell
are you going to tell me? Right? Yeah, and we're
the ones that have all the answers. If you've
been in the army or the Marines, the warrant
officers are the ones everyone goes to for help.
We are the ones that are supposed to have the
answers, but when we don't have the answers for
ourselves, it's hard as a human being to admit
that. And that was my problem. So what is it
about the horses? Why equine therapy? Why not
just go to the VA and talk to a mental health
person? Why was it the equine therapy that drew
you in? Well, for me, horses scare the crap out
of me. So that's a start. And it's a challenge.
Secondly, equine therapy and specifically EGALA
is the model that we follow. It's a nationally
recognized model. It's not going out riding horses.
It's not equestrian. It's interacting with the
horses and horses have an innate ability. They're
a fight or a flight animal. Their reactions are
based off their instinct. Either they're going
to fight or they're fleeing. And a lot of times
that's where vets end up getting. When I look
at my history, coming back from tours, and the
inability to deal with the issues at home, the
children, the upheaval, the arguments, or different
things that come up, we either fight or we flight.
That's a military bred instinct. Horses have
that same instinct. And so working with the horses,
you're learning how number one to identify those
problems that you have but number two how to
manage those problems and the horses have this
unique ability to do that and to mirror your
emotions your anxiety and it helps you regulate
those things now obviously i'm only five weeks
into the program there's a lot that i haven't
seen yet but that's you know this is what it
does for the veteran well and you've been around
it though now for years through the family And
I want to talk a little bit about so that you
can do some bragging on what it did for the kids
and Anna in particular, the direction that she
took it. It changed my kid's outlook. Because
as the title of my daughter's book, she wrote
hope on four hooves. My family, we're very religious
family we you know we're very we're christian
we we worship and we believe in god and we have
faith but but in the situation with their father
i'll take my my daughter was 14 when she wrote
the book she didn't have a lot of hope that things
were going to work out at that time and through
the equine therapy it allowed my kids to learn
how to regulate those emotions that were being
passed on to them and to bring hope back to my
family, you know, right alongside with God was
there the whole time. But you know, there's the
physical and the spiritual. And sometimes the
two, you know, one's weaker than the other, depending
on the situation and physically and emotionally,
my kids were falling apart because of the anxiety
that I had that I was creating in them. And so,
you know, them going through the program and
my wife going through the program, it allowed
them to to get hope back again that things are
going to be okay and there's a way out of this
darkness that we have been placed into. And this
is a, if you will, private non -profit. And I
want to point that out because of the family
aspect of this. Veterans can go to the VA for
mental health care, but VA doesn't do anything
for the family. It's not designed, authorized,
funded for family mental health care. So things
like Little Blessings Veteran Outreach are important
and supporting those are important because it's
a family affair, not just a veteran affair. And
let me tell you that, veteran radio listeners,
we're talking to Will Brock, chief. Warrant Officer
IV, 30 years in the Army, and his and his family's
experience with equine therapy. Little Blessings
Veteran Outreach. You can find it on the web
at lbveteranoutreach .org if you want some more
information. As I said, it's founder and executive
director is a 25 -year Air Force veteran, so
she knows what she's talking about. Will, as
you... Begin the process of going through the
program. Is it something that you sort of begin
to see changes in yourself or recognizing patterns
before they get to developed? What do you expect
to get out of the program? Right now I'm learning
to recognize the patterns of the horse. So, the
emotions or reactions of the animal, it takes
an eye. So, you know, I used to make fun of my
wife, you know, talking to, going to talk to
Mr. Ed, you know, the horse. Right, right, right.
You know, what's he going to teach us? What's
he going to teach you? You know, how does he
talk, et cetera. You know, but the horses have
definite reactions based off their emotions.
Number one is realizing what is making you know
the reactions the good and the bad reactions
in that animal that's what i'm in the process
of learning right now and to regulate and to
build trust with that creature in order for that
creature to you know help me it's it's you know
it sounds you know sometimes it's it's voodoo
sounding but but it it literally has changed
the lives of many, many veterans just in our
own community. And again, our organization, the
VA, I would question whether the VA mental health
helps a lot, but you can talk to somebody once
a month or every other month or every quarter.
You're discussing problems and trying to fix
problems, but Little Blessings encompasses the
entire family and the entire psyche of the person.
you know, it's a family affair. We have the,
you know, the family dinners once a month. We
have the children's program. It's a place where
veterans, when they're done with the program,
they still continue to come to the ranch to interact
with the animal that they went through the program
with, you know, and their support. There's other
veterans there that have been through the same
program or currently in the program that are
there to also interact with that veteran. It
gives a camaraderie ship as well as the family
getting that support mechanism as well. And again,
it's all supported by private funds. Yeah, the
horse picks up on your aggression, right? I mean,
if you're hostile, it reacts a certain way. If
you can calm yourself, it calms itself. Is that
what you're talking about when you say, I'm just
learning to read the horse? Yes, yes sir. Yeah,
if you have a high anxiety the horse is going
to exhibit those same symptoms because they pick
up because they're a fight -or -flight animal
they they are unsure of your feeling you know
your your anxiety they can feel now that I don't
know how they do it but they do it and and their
reaction is either they're gonna fight you or
they're gonna flight you know they're gonna flee
from you they're trying to decide what they're
gonna do and And so I'm in the portion of breathing
those emotions of the horse, you know, but those
are really truly my emotions that are coming
out in the horse. Now this little Blessing Veterans
Outreach is in Monroe County, just a little bit
north of the Ohio state line. But these kind
of therapy, equine therapy programs are all over
the country. And there are some I don't know
if I'd call it standards or groups. I know one
of them's a professional association of therapeutic
horsemanship international. And you mentioned,
you know, as little blessings are following a
sort of a time -tested. Yeah. EGALA model, and
there's an association, EGALA, it's nationally
certified. There's EGALA, people that practice
the EGALA. Gallup model throughout the U .S.
There's only a very small handful that specifically
do it strictly for veterans. And that's, again,
if you're listening to this or on Veterans Radio
or the podcast and you're thinking, hey, I got
this, this might work for a friend of mine or
they ought to just look into it or maybe it's
something I'd be interested in, there is, there
are resources available. You might have to search
them out a little bit. you know, by going onto
the internet or maybe talking to a VA social
worker and getting a referral, again, this is
gonna be on the private side of things. It's
not a VA hospital benefit, that's for damn sure.
No, it is not. I mean, we would love for it to
be at some point, you know, supported by the
VA and they see that They see the benefit of
it because there's been conversations even at
the local level with the Ann Arbor VA. But it
has yet to be adopted by the VA as one of their
methods. But we'll stay optimistic. And a gala
for those of us who are functionally illiterate
in this area, which I am, it's Equine Assisted
Psychotherapy, E -A -G -A -L -A dot org. where
again you can find it's got a link for find a
program for example and and you can get more
information if you're down in Louisiana or you're
over in New York you can probably find something
nearby that is worth giving a go and is it a
combination both will of kind of Working with
the horse and working with a mental health therapist?
Yes, there's a mental health therapist at the
sessions. There's an EGALA certified handler
at the sessions. It's a pretty strict program.
Each session is made to address a slightly different
avenue or a different step in the program. You
lead the horses and you're your commands you
know you're given commands to give to the horse
as you lead it and on the horse will obey or
not obey based off your level of anxiety or command
you know your confidence level you know there's
so many variables within it but but it's proven
to work and help and and we see it working each
and every day currently at our place we have
15, I want to say 15 or 16 veterans in the program
right now. And there's four different phases.
So they're, you know, they're not all, it's individually,
individual sessions, but they're all different
times of the week in different phases. This has
been very interesting. And again, I think most
veteran radio listeners wouldn't know about this,
Will Brook. They wouldn't be able to maybe suggest
it to somebody who this is perfect for. So I
really appreciate the time that you've given
us today to talk about how it's helped the family,
as well as dad finally getting on board and going,
okay, I'm gonna suck it up and do this myself
and see the value. They were probably surprised
that dad finally came around to it, but I bet
they're all pretty happy. I've gotten a lot of
positive comments, Jim, not just from my family,
but also other veterans that are proud or thankful
that I took this step. Because I am kind of a
public figure. I'm a state house rep member.
I'm pretty famous in my area. I'm a business
owner. And I don't want to say I'm humble, but
it takes a lot of humility. to admit that you
need help and I've had a lot of veterans reach
out to me and say thank you for what you've done.
Absolutely and I want to thank you for taking
time to share this story and give a little hope
out there to the veteran community and maybe
looking at equine therapy is something that they
ought to do. Will thanks for your time today.
Thank you Jim I appreciate you sir. And I want
to thank everybody for listening to Veterans
Radio today. I am Jim Fossone. It's been a pleasure
to be your host. I'm a Veterans Disability Lawyer
at Legal Help for Veterans, and you can reach
us at 800 -693 -4800 or legalhelpforveterans
.com on the web. You can follow Veterans Radio
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