WEBVTT 00:00:05.160 --> 00:00:08.980 All across America and around the world, this 00:00:08.980 --> 00:00:15.140 is Veterans Radio. This is Veterans Radio. Good 00:00:15.140 --> 00:00:18.600 day. I'm Jim Fossone. I'm the Officer of the 00:00:18.600 --> 00:00:20.699 Deck today here on Veterans Radio and thanks 00:00:20.699 --> 00:00:23.460 for joining us. We've got some interesting stories 00:00:23.460 --> 00:00:25.640 for you. We always want to remind you, you can 00:00:25.640 --> 00:00:28.739 find more about Veterans Radio at its Facebook 00:00:28.739 --> 00:00:32.420 site or at the web, veteransradio .org, where 00:00:32.420 --> 00:00:35.259 we're on the web 24 -7. You can find a lot of 00:00:35.259 --> 00:00:38.299 our podcasts there as well. We post new ones 00:00:38.299 --> 00:00:42.479 every Tuesday, so you can get a new story, a 00:00:42.479 --> 00:00:45.219 new interview, something you didn't know before 00:00:45.219 --> 00:00:49.460 by going to veteransradio .org. 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We just want to remind you that Veterans 00:01:34.280 --> 00:01:39.340 Radio podcasts are available on all your favorite 00:01:39.340 --> 00:01:43.359 streaming platforms including RSS .com, Apple 00:01:43.359 --> 00:01:48.230 Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube Podcasts, I Heart 00:01:48.230 --> 00:01:52.329 Radio, and Reeves Across America Radio. So wherever 00:01:52.329 --> 00:01:55.870 you are, you can find us, whether it's on your 00:01:55.870 --> 00:01:58.269 mobile phone or your computer or your laptop, 00:01:58.370 --> 00:02:02.010 your tablet, but listen in to Veterans Radio 00:02:02.010 --> 00:02:04.769 Podcasts. We post something new every week, and 00:02:04.769 --> 00:02:08.189 you're going to find it informative. We want 00:02:08.189 --> 00:02:13.240 to welcome back to Veterans Radio. Colonel Michelle 00:02:13.240 --> 00:02:16.680 Ruhl, Air Force veteran. Michelle, welcome back. 00:02:17.060 --> 00:02:19.599 Thank you. Well, we're glad to have you. We'll 00:02:19.599 --> 00:02:22.120 talk more about your military career at the end 00:02:22.120 --> 00:02:26.259 because it is kind of fascinating. Well, you're 00:02:26.259 --> 00:02:30.439 involved in a nonprofit called Stable Strides 00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:33.340 and folks can learn more about it by going to 00:02:33.340 --> 00:02:37.939 stablestrides .org. It's involved in equine therapy. 00:02:39.259 --> 00:02:42.009 So, Michelle, you've been involved in this since 00:02:42.009 --> 00:02:44.669 you were a cadet at the Air Force Academy. So 00:02:44.669 --> 00:02:48.949 a few years ago, you might say. Couple of decades. 00:02:49.849 --> 00:02:53.349 Tell us how you got involved and what equine 00:02:53.349 --> 00:02:56.789 therapy is. It actually goes back prior to my 00:02:56.789 --> 00:02:59.150 military history. When I was growing up in Detroit, 00:02:59.310 --> 00:03:02.069 I used to go up north in Michigan to a horse 00:03:02.069 --> 00:03:04.650 camp. And at that horse camp, it was run by a 00:03:04.650 --> 00:03:07.189 church. They did a few different programs that 00:03:07.189 --> 00:03:09.789 could help teens that had gone through transition 00:03:09.789 --> 00:03:12.879 or troubling times. And I used to volunteer to 00:03:12.879 --> 00:03:16.400 help feed and muck out stalls and lead the horses. 00:03:16.419 --> 00:03:18.419 And I thought, well, that's interesting how a 00:03:18.419 --> 00:03:20.139 horse interacts with someone who's going through 00:03:20.139 --> 00:03:23.039 some mental health challenges. But I'll never 00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:25.280 see that again. And then it turns out I went 00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:27.939 out to the Air Force Academy in Colorado. And 00:03:27.939 --> 00:03:29.860 in our very limited time, we were allowed to 00:03:29.860 --> 00:03:32.360 go do volunteer projects. And I heard of an equine 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:35.740 therapy center, which used to be called X 1911, 00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:38.319 which addresses doing miracles for a community. 00:03:38.639 --> 00:03:41.240 At that time it was called Pike's Peak Therapeutic 00:03:41.240 --> 00:03:43.900 Riding Center and I had to borrow an upperclassman's 00:03:43.900 --> 00:03:46.319 car at the Air Force Academy. I would drive 40 00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:49.159 minutes out and I just again volunteered to be 00:03:49.159 --> 00:03:51.819 a horse leader in what's called a sidewalker. 00:03:52.020 --> 00:03:53.840 A sidewalker is someone who helps someone who's 00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:56.780 in a wheelchair mount onto a horse and you hold 00:03:56.780 --> 00:03:59.419 on to the lower half so that they can feel riding 00:03:59.419 --> 00:04:02.479 and what walking feels like, but it takes a sidewalker 00:04:02.479 --> 00:04:04.900 on either side. And there's an accreditation 00:04:04.900 --> 00:04:07.949 body called PATH. And that's a professional association 00:04:07.949 --> 00:04:10.250 of therapy to coursemanship international. It's 00:04:10.250 --> 00:04:12.569 an accreditation body that does certifications. 00:04:13.069 --> 00:04:14.789 So I thought, well, you know, I'll get a couple 00:04:14.789 --> 00:04:16.730 of certifications, but I probably won't see this 00:04:16.730 --> 00:04:19.649 again. As it turned out, every military base 00:04:19.649 --> 00:04:22.509 that I was stationed at as a pilot within 20 00:04:22.509 --> 00:04:24.709 minutes, there was an equine therapy center. 00:04:25.230 --> 00:04:27.430 But over the last two decades, it wasn't well 00:04:27.430 --> 00:04:29.269 known and there wasn't a lot of evidence based 00:04:29.269 --> 00:04:31.430 research. It just seemed sort of an alternative 00:04:31.430 --> 00:04:33.550 therapy that might be for some people, but not 00:04:33.550 --> 00:04:36.399 for others. But I always found a place, for instance, 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:38.579 when I was stationed at Beale flying the MC -12, 00:04:38.740 --> 00:04:41.040 there was a therapy center about 20 minutes outside 00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:43.339 the South Gate, and I was able to work with them 00:04:43.339 --> 00:04:45.639 called Warrior Soul. When I was in Virginia, 00:04:45.779 --> 00:04:48.120 of course, that has a lot of horse history, but 00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:50.000 I was able to find a therapy center, also Little 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:52.699 Rock, Arkansas, and then, of course, Colorado. 00:04:53.379 --> 00:04:55.860 So I kept up my certifications, thinking I would 00:04:55.860 --> 00:04:58.040 do it part -time, and I did for a while. I'm 00:04:58.040 --> 00:05:00.259 a therapeutic riding instructor, so I can help 00:05:00.259 --> 00:05:02.379 people who have different types of disabilities, 00:05:02.439 --> 00:05:05.449 whether that's speech, occupational, physical 00:05:05.449 --> 00:05:07.850 therapy, it's called hippotherapy on a horse. 00:05:08.389 --> 00:05:11.410 And then I also started digging into other types 00:05:11.410 --> 00:05:13.689 of work with horses, including mental health. 00:05:13.889 --> 00:05:16.610 So I also have a certification equine specialist 00:05:16.610 --> 00:05:19.529 in mental health and learning. Long title, we 00:05:19.529 --> 00:05:22.490 shorten it to ES for equine specialist. And I 00:05:22.490 --> 00:05:24.829 combined that with being I'm now a life coach 00:05:24.829 --> 00:05:27.490 that helps veterans and military members deal 00:05:27.490 --> 00:05:30.750 with addiction, recovery, grief, and suicidal 00:05:30.750 --> 00:05:34.040 ideations. And the reason I started moving towards 00:05:34.040 --> 00:05:36.600 mental health with horses is I was noticing at 00:05:36.600 --> 00:05:38.360 every single base, there would be people coming 00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:40.920 back from Iraq and Afghanistan who didn't want 00:05:40.920 --> 00:05:43.459 to do traditional talk therapy, but they were 00:05:43.459 --> 00:05:45.399 willing to go out and work with animals. And 00:05:45.399 --> 00:05:47.620 I thought, well, I'll, I'll just sort of stay 00:05:47.620 --> 00:05:50.779 involved peripherally. Well, after my 21 year 00:05:50.779 --> 00:05:53.879 military career, I recently retired and I was 00:05:53.879 --> 00:05:56.540 doing some part -time work with now called stable 00:05:56.540 --> 00:05:59.379 strides. It's under its third name change and 00:05:59.519 --> 00:06:01.459 I was just doing Mondays and Tuesdays and I was 00:06:01.459 --> 00:06:03.379 working with some children and I started noticing 00:06:03.379 --> 00:06:05.300 that we didn't have the same veteran and military 00:06:05.300 --> 00:06:07.500 population that we'd had over the last two decades. 00:06:08.060 --> 00:06:10.379 And so I joined the board. I joined the board 00:06:10.379 --> 00:06:12.680 of stable strides and I thought, well, that might 00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:14.819 be a way to help. I was recently elected to a 00:06:14.819 --> 00:06:17.519 school board. I'm on another board at Mount Carmel 00:06:17.519 --> 00:06:19.699 Veterans Service Center. So I thought from the 00:06:19.699 --> 00:06:22.560 executive level, I can help expand our services 00:06:22.560 --> 00:06:27.100 back to serving the 330 ,000 veterans we have 00:06:27.100 --> 00:06:30.470 in Colorado, 7 % of our state. But we also have 00:06:30.470 --> 00:06:33.230 30 ,000 active duty and reserve military members 00:06:33.230 --> 00:06:35.990 here from all over the country. And I get more 00:06:35.990 --> 00:06:38.189 phone calls a day requesting these services, 00:06:38.269 --> 00:06:40.889 which we can get into in a minute. But the point 00:06:40.889 --> 00:06:43.430 is the demand is high and people are looking 00:06:43.430 --> 00:06:46.350 for this type of therapeutic environment as they're 00:06:46.350 --> 00:06:49.810 coming back with moral injury and PTS. After 00:06:49.810 --> 00:06:52.089 I was on the board for a little bit, the previous 00:06:52.089 --> 00:06:54.329 executive director resigned with some family 00:06:54.329 --> 00:06:56.490 issues. And so we looked around the room going, 00:06:56.870 --> 00:06:58.870 where are we going to find an immediate executive 00:06:58.870 --> 00:07:00.949 director who can work with veterans and military, 00:07:01.110 --> 00:07:04.069 who can start now and can expand our program? 00:07:04.689 --> 00:07:07.189 And I thought, well, that's hard to find. Turns 00:07:07.189 --> 00:07:09.569 out. Well, if you're working in the Air Force, 00:07:09.670 --> 00:07:12.310 you volunteer. So, you know, come on. You should 00:07:12.310 --> 00:07:14.050 have known better what this was going to get 00:07:14.050 --> 00:07:18.519 you into. I do, so now I am the executive director 00:07:18.519 --> 00:07:23.360 of Stable Strives. Talk a little bit about, because 00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:26.040 there is now more research and we're learning 00:07:26.040 --> 00:07:29.040 more, maybe it's just getting more exposure to 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:33.279 equine therapy, what is it between a horse and 00:07:33.279 --> 00:07:37.680 a person who's having their own challenges that 00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:41.800 sort of is a connection that makes this work 00:07:41.800 --> 00:07:45.259 for some folks? Yeah, I can put it in a nutshell 00:07:45.259 --> 00:07:49.100 that our ancestors used horses quite a bit because 00:07:49.100 --> 00:07:51.319 they knew something that we have sort of forgotten 00:07:51.319 --> 00:07:54.740 in our kind of modern Western medicine. And that's 00:07:54.740 --> 00:07:57.699 that a horse, it mirrors human behavior. But 00:07:57.699 --> 00:07:59.860 what a horse can't do that humans are very good 00:07:59.860 --> 00:08:02.959 at doing is they can't hide their true feelings 00:08:02.959 --> 00:08:06.879 or anxiety. So they're part of a herd and horses 00:08:06.879 --> 00:08:10.379 just want to know all the time, am I safe? So 00:08:10.379 --> 00:08:12.800 they turn to humans as part of their herd as 00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:14.939 long as they feel safe. But when they don't feel 00:08:14.939 --> 00:08:18.079 safe, they act out. So they may show anxiety, 00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:20.459 which we can see in their ears and in their body, 00:08:20.540 --> 00:08:22.899 in their behavior, their breathing. The horses 00:08:22.899 --> 00:08:25.180 also have the mentality of about a four to seven 00:08:25.180 --> 00:08:27.959 year old child, and they can sense our heartbeat, 00:08:28.079 --> 00:08:31.519 human anxiety, and our behavior at up to four 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:34.559 to five feet away. So what a horse offers for 00:08:34.559 --> 00:08:37.399 you is a mirror to what you're trying to hold 00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:40.190 in and compartmentalize. And you may not want 00:08:40.190 --> 00:08:42.429 to sit on a couch and do traditional talk therapy. 00:08:42.590 --> 00:08:45.309 So what we do with equine therapy is you will 00:08:45.309 --> 00:08:48.169 have a client work with a horse and with a specialist. 00:08:49.009 --> 00:08:51.649 And then we ask the horse and the client to sort 00:08:51.649 --> 00:08:53.610 of lead this session. And it's not that there's 00:08:53.610 --> 00:08:55.590 no objective. There's very clear objective. But 00:08:55.590 --> 00:08:58.110 I'll give an actually concrete example. I worked 00:08:58.110 --> 00:09:00.509 with a gentleman from Fort Carson who was a sergeant 00:09:00.509 --> 00:09:02.549 who was really struggling with anger management 00:09:02.549 --> 00:09:04.950 and with domestic abuse. And he knew that he 00:09:04.950 --> 00:09:07.539 was being violent towards his spouse. but he 00:09:07.539 --> 00:09:09.620 couldn't quite put a finger on when it was coming 00:09:09.620 --> 00:09:12.139 up. He would come home and feel like he was calm 00:09:12.139 --> 00:09:14.059 and he could handle being with his spouse, but 00:09:14.059 --> 00:09:16.600 something would trigger him after a couple tours 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:19.679 in Iraq. So I chose a horse for him that did 00:09:19.679 --> 00:09:22.120 have high anxiety. It was very high spirited, 00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:25.179 but it was kind. And all I said was, hey, go 00:09:25.179 --> 00:09:26.960 grab that horse, go try to go bridle that horse 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:29.159 and bring it to you. And the horse would back 00:09:29.159 --> 00:09:31.700 away. and wouldn't get anywhere near him. And 00:09:31.700 --> 00:09:33.740 this guy had worse experience. And he kept saying, 00:09:33.779 --> 00:09:35.960 I don't understand why I have written. I know 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:37.840 how to do this. How come he won't come near me? 00:09:38.039 --> 00:09:41.080 I didn't have to say much because I watched as 00:09:41.080 --> 00:09:43.220 he tried to do some deep breathing and calm himself 00:09:43.220 --> 00:09:45.700 down. The horse would approach. And as soon as 00:09:45.700 --> 00:09:47.360 he would start to walk towards the horse again, 00:09:47.399 --> 00:09:50.019 the horse would back up. And immediately he looked 00:09:50.019 --> 00:09:52.759 at me and he said, I didn't realize I was giving 00:09:52.759 --> 00:09:55.159 off this much anger, anxiety. And he said, is 00:09:55.159 --> 00:09:59.600 this how my wife feels? Wow, that's awful. he 00:09:59.600 --> 00:10:02.360 came to that conclusion and realized he was putting 00:10:02.360 --> 00:10:04.620 out this anxiety but the horse can't hide it 00:10:04.620 --> 00:10:07.720 like we wear a mask we hide behind i'm fine i 00:10:07.720 --> 00:10:10.179 can handle it well they don't do that because 00:10:10.179 --> 00:10:13.179 everything's a predator so they have to communicate 00:10:13.179 --> 00:10:17.059 in a herd to say danger and so they give us a 00:10:17.059 --> 00:10:20.220 mirror to our own challenges and our own mental 00:10:20.220 --> 00:10:23.440 health struggles which even i have participated 00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:25.379 in and i'd be happy to share how it helped me 00:10:25.379 --> 00:10:29.000 as well Well, we'll come back to that for a moment. 00:10:29.259 --> 00:10:32.240 But I think this is one of these things, and 00:10:32.240 --> 00:10:35.159 we've been talking to veterans on Veterans Radio 00:10:35.159 --> 00:10:42.360 for 20 plus years now. There's no one silver 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:45.779 magic bullet that deals with the problems veterans 00:10:45.779 --> 00:10:50.039 may have on emotional or anger or PTSD. So you 00:10:50.039 --> 00:10:53.440 have to find the therapy or the approach that 00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:57.210 the veteran's comfortable with. And I think at 00:10:57.210 --> 00:11:00.190 the VA for a long time, just take these pills, 00:11:00.289 --> 00:11:04.350 that's it, one size fits all. But that's where 00:11:04.350 --> 00:11:07.309 equine therapy comes in. For some folks, this 00:11:07.309 --> 00:11:11.889 may be the right therapy that works for them, 00:11:12.230 --> 00:11:16.509 that they can connect with while they didn't 00:11:16.509 --> 00:11:19.330 connect with a variety of other things. And is 00:11:19.330 --> 00:11:22.519 that kind of what you see as well? I am seeing, 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:25.220 it's just another mode, it's another tool in 00:11:25.220 --> 00:11:28.500 the kit, but for the type of person that is generally 00:11:28.500 --> 00:11:31.039 drawn towards the military and towards operation 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:33.039 and towards relationship and towards being a 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:35.820 protector, all of those come out when you're 00:11:35.820 --> 00:11:38.279 working with a 2 ,000 pound animal that might 00:11:38.279 --> 00:11:40.860 be bigger than you, because there's that instinct 00:11:40.860 --> 00:11:43.539 for us as humans to protect, is their part, the 00:11:43.539 --> 00:11:45.440 animal's part of our herd, part of our squadron, 00:11:45.539 --> 00:11:47.879 part of our battalion. But at the same time, 00:11:48.120 --> 00:11:50.779 that animal is also looking to us to provide 00:11:50.779 --> 00:11:53.379 something and clearly communicate. If you try 00:11:53.379 --> 00:11:56.600 to hide or lie to the animal, it knows and it 00:11:56.600 --> 00:11:58.139 won't come towards you and it won't build that 00:11:58.139 --> 00:12:00.639 relationship. So it's just a different modality 00:12:00.639 --> 00:12:03.399 and it doesn't include Western medicine, which 00:12:03.399 --> 00:12:05.600 you could augment if your doctor says that that's 00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:08.159 correct. But this is more, how do I work through 00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:10.740 some of that energy, some of the trigger, some 00:12:10.740 --> 00:12:14.350 of the PTS? And even grief. Horses are animals 00:12:14.350 --> 00:12:17.210 that grieve when one is removed or one passes 00:12:17.210 --> 00:12:20.149 away or when they're separated. They stand and 00:12:20.149 --> 00:12:22.269 they look for the other. They'll stand in the 00:12:22.269 --> 00:12:24.450 spot that they were. They'll eat in the same 00:12:24.450 --> 00:12:27.429 trough and just look for their member. So they 00:12:27.429 --> 00:12:29.450 really understand that group mentality when a 00:12:29.450 --> 00:12:32.450 group is sort of separated. And it's just a modality 00:12:32.450 --> 00:12:34.590 that works for a lot of people that are already 00:12:34.590 --> 00:12:37.259 drawn to a military lifestyle. But it doesn't 00:12:37.259 --> 00:12:39.580 require sitting still. You don't have to sit 00:12:39.580 --> 00:12:41.820 down and talk about your feelings. You can act 00:12:41.820 --> 00:12:44.620 them out. You can ride. You can touch. You can 00:12:44.620 --> 00:12:47.480 actually express emotion. And it doesn't even 00:12:47.480 --> 00:12:52.259 require talking for a lot of this. And we're 00:12:52.259 --> 00:12:55.539 talking to Air Force retired Colonel Michelle 00:12:55.539 --> 00:13:00.000 Ruhl, who's the CEO of stablestrides .org in 00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:05.120 Colorado, about equine therapy. These animals 00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:09.419 are, as you mentioned, minigots, big, sizable. 00:13:10.679 --> 00:13:16.120 Their care is costly. I know from reviewing stablestrides 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:20.299 .org's website, it has an operating budget of 00:13:20.299 --> 00:13:25.059 about a million dollars for, I'm not sure how 00:13:25.059 --> 00:13:27.320 many horses, I think there's 10 or 12 or something, 00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:30.820 but this is an expensive proposition for a non 00:13:30.820 --> 00:13:35.529 -profit. How do you keep it going financially? 00:13:36.210 --> 00:13:38.929 You know, there's a positive outcome for people, 00:13:39.009 --> 00:13:42.370 but still it takes a lot of resources to do that. 00:13:43.049 --> 00:13:45.750 It does. This is one of the most expensive nonprofits. 00:13:45.929 --> 00:13:48.470 It's a large animal that eats and then has vet 00:13:48.470 --> 00:13:52.820 bills and they eat a lot. We have it down to 00:13:52.820 --> 00:13:55.899 grants and donor funding, but to be honest, every 00:13:55.899 --> 00:13:57.379 time the horse comes out of this stall, it's 00:13:57.379 --> 00:14:00.360 about $200 for just coming out. That's overhead 00:14:00.360 --> 00:14:02.740 operating costs of running a farm and a ranch. 00:14:02.879 --> 00:14:04.940 We do have 15 horses, but three of those are 00:14:04.940 --> 00:14:07.639 mini. Mini horses are about the size of my great 00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:10.259 Pyrenees, or smaller. Even those have therapeutic 00:14:10.259 --> 00:14:12.899 value, having a small horse to work with, and 00:14:12.899 --> 00:14:15.039 children love it as well. So what we've been 00:14:15.039 --> 00:14:17.179 really dependent on over the last two decades, 00:14:17.419 --> 00:14:19.360 they've actually been around for 44 years, but 00:14:19.360 --> 00:14:21.600 for the last two decades specifically has been 00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:25.659 a lot of VA funding, adaptive sports. There's 00:14:25.659 --> 00:14:28.100 been all sorts of private donors, but as you 00:14:28.100 --> 00:14:31.059 know, there's donor fatigue. There's also a focus 00:14:31.059 --> 00:14:33.500 over the last year that's been on food scarcity 00:14:33.500 --> 00:14:37.980 and rightly so. But the mental health of my generation 00:14:37.980 --> 00:14:41.600 of veterans that are coming home from 20 years 00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:44.980 of war in Afghanistan and Iraq, What we don't 00:14:44.980 --> 00:14:47.100 want is what happened in Vietnam where we weren't 00:14:47.100 --> 00:14:49.179 prepared for the mental health challenges of 00:14:49.179 --> 00:14:51.379 our veterans coming home. Now we know better. 00:14:51.679 --> 00:14:54.740 So how do we do better? And part of that is this 00:14:54.740 --> 00:14:57.600 type of therapeutic work is helping for moral 00:14:57.600 --> 00:15:00.340 injury and grief as well. I mean, my generation, 00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:02.379 I was working in the White House the night Afghanistan 00:15:02.379 --> 00:15:05.779 fell. And I have many people coming to me going, 00:15:06.299 --> 00:15:08.659 I still have my interpreter in Afghanistan. I'm 00:15:08.659 --> 00:15:10.820 feeling all of this sort of grief and I can't 00:15:10.820 --> 00:15:13.309 get them out. And so we actually have horses 00:15:13.309 --> 00:15:16.049 that help process some of that grief and also 00:15:16.049 --> 00:15:19.049 loss from the war. But if we want to do better, 00:15:19.230 --> 00:15:22.169 it means having about 12 to 15 horse capacity 00:15:22.169 --> 00:15:24.669 to be able to do the services. And each horse 00:15:24.669 --> 00:15:27.210 is about $10 ,000 a year. So we look for corporate 00:15:27.210 --> 00:15:28.929 sponsors. We're always looking for someone to 00:15:28.929 --> 00:15:31.610 sponsor an entire horse for 10 or a partial horse. 00:15:31.850 --> 00:15:34.529 and help with those payments. And honestly, I 00:15:34.529 --> 00:15:36.529 don't take a paycheck as the executive director. 00:15:36.990 --> 00:15:39.529 Right now, I feel like my heart is in giving 00:15:39.529 --> 00:15:42.029 that back so that we can give scholarships to 00:15:42.029 --> 00:15:44.330 our military. But the other thing that we're 00:15:44.330 --> 00:15:46.590 really struggling with is the cost of having 00:15:46.590 --> 00:15:49.450 a therapist that accepts TRICARE. So for our 00:15:49.450 --> 00:15:51.990 active duty members here, we have seven military 00:15:51.990 --> 00:15:54.750 bases right here in Colorado, five within driving 00:15:54.750 --> 00:15:57.610 distance from my Equine Center. And so I get 00:15:57.610 --> 00:15:59.889 calls every morning from the military bases saying, 00:16:00.149 --> 00:16:02.289 can you take someone? And right now we can only 00:16:02.289 --> 00:16:04.610 accept, we have one therapist who takes tricare 00:16:04.610 --> 00:16:07.149 for children, which is very important, taking 00:16:07.149 --> 00:16:09.429 care of our military members, children who are 00:16:09.429 --> 00:16:12.049 experiencing secondary effects of their parents' 00:16:12.309 --> 00:16:15.769 trauma and TTS. But then also we used to have 00:16:15.769 --> 00:16:17.769 therapists who could accept tricare, but as you 00:16:17.769 --> 00:16:20.690 can imagine, a nonprofit that has to feed horses 00:16:20.690 --> 00:16:23.320 and keep the lights on a ranch, we don't have 00:16:23.320 --> 00:16:25.860 the same funding opportunities to be able to 00:16:25.860 --> 00:16:28.440 fully pay for a therapist that's in private practice. 00:16:28.720 --> 00:16:31.259 So this has to be someone who we can pay through 00:16:31.259 --> 00:16:34.399 grants and donor funding, but they also love 00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:36.679 working with our military veteran population. 00:16:36.860 --> 00:16:38.799 They choose to do it. They choose to do it through 00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:41.600 a nonprofit. So we also are looking for people 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:43.399 that might be listening to this. They go, I could 00:16:43.399 --> 00:16:46.179 do that for four hours on a Friday. And then 00:16:46.179 --> 00:16:48.340 we're looking for those donors to help supplement 00:16:48.340 --> 00:16:51.220 the cost. It cost about $200 per session to pay 00:16:51.220 --> 00:16:53.460 out of pocket. And we know that for a lot of 00:16:53.460 --> 00:16:56.000 our military members, that's just it's a high 00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:59.120 cost, but the return on investment is life saving. 00:16:59.340 --> 00:17:03.240 Well, and I want to suggest to our veteran radio 00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:07.819 listeners, if you're an individual or a corporation 00:17:07.819 --> 00:17:09.900 or a foundation, you know, somebody who might 00:17:09.900 --> 00:17:14.180 be thinking that they could support equine therapy, 00:17:14.220 --> 00:17:20.549 go to the stable strides dot org. You can. see 00:17:20.549 --> 00:17:23.849 their tax information. There's a lot of financial 00:17:23.849 --> 00:17:26.730 transparency there, which I was glad to see. 00:17:27.289 --> 00:17:29.990 I'm sure they can reach out to you, Michelle, 00:17:30.549 --> 00:17:34.950 as the executive director there. But let's find 00:17:34.950 --> 00:17:41.369 ways to keep these kinds of programs available 00:17:41.369 --> 00:17:45.190 at a cost or a reasonable cost or no cost to 00:17:45.190 --> 00:17:47.309 our veterans and their families. I love the fact 00:17:47.309 --> 00:17:50.660 that you're helping veterans children of veteran 00:17:50.660 --> 00:17:53.240 as well, because they so often get left out of 00:17:53.240 --> 00:17:56.319 the deal, right? Maybe mom or dad can go to the 00:17:56.319 --> 00:17:59.160 VA for care, but there's no care for the kid. 00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:05.819 And they do suffer silently often with those 00:18:05.819 --> 00:18:10.460 problems that are brought home. Is there federal 00:18:10.460 --> 00:18:13.059 or state grant money also available for this 00:18:13.059 --> 00:18:15.339 sort of work, or is that diminished in today's 00:18:15.339 --> 00:18:18.109 environment? The federal grant funding is paused 00:18:18.109 --> 00:18:20.970 for now, but I am an English professor on the 00:18:20.970 --> 00:18:23.130 side, so I set my alarm every morning at 4 a 00:18:23.130 --> 00:18:25.549 .m. I'm also our grant writer, and I'm putting 00:18:25.549 --> 00:18:28.690 in two right now that are larger grants asking 00:18:28.690 --> 00:18:30.609 for continued funding, but it's actually, you 00:18:30.609 --> 00:18:32.910 mentioned the children of veterans. We're starting 00:18:32.910 --> 00:18:35.349 a new program, and it's literacy intervention. 00:18:35.849 --> 00:18:37.730 Because I'm on a school board, we actually have 00:18:37.730 --> 00:18:40.430 23 ,000 students in our school district, and 00:18:40.430 --> 00:18:43.450 the children are only reading at 38 % proficiency 00:18:43.450 --> 00:18:46.410 across grade level. And many of these are veteran 00:18:46.410 --> 00:18:48.529 and military children who've moved around a lot 00:18:48.529 --> 00:18:50.750 and who have issues with either English as a 00:18:50.750 --> 00:18:54.009 second language or literacy in general, just 00:18:54.009 --> 00:18:57.309 from moving and not having constant educational 00:18:57.309 --> 00:18:59.970 care. And so we've started a literacy program 00:18:59.970 --> 00:19:02.670 and it's in a national called Horse Powered Reading, 00:19:02.970 --> 00:19:05.150 but we have started it at our center and it's 00:19:05.150 --> 00:19:07.029 two retired school teachers, one's a principal. 00:19:07.420 --> 00:19:09.640 And it's to reach out to the military and veteran 00:19:09.640 --> 00:19:12.279 children and be able to do literacy intervention 00:19:12.279 --> 00:19:14.259 prior to third grade and then third grade to 00:19:14.259 --> 00:19:17.579 eighth grade to help reduce that gap. And then 00:19:17.579 --> 00:19:20.740 secondary, we also, we accept Medicaid, but that 00:19:20.740 --> 00:19:23.460 barely covers a third of the cost for children 00:19:23.460 --> 00:19:26.119 that need intervention for behavior and mental 00:19:26.119 --> 00:19:28.720 health that are in middle school. We're seeing 00:19:28.720 --> 00:19:32.259 a high rate of suicidal ideation in middle schoolers. 00:19:32.619 --> 00:19:34.759 And so what we're able to do is bring them out 00:19:34.759 --> 00:19:37.839 and do some group work. But again, the cost is 00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:39.980 prohibitive for a lot of families that actually 00:19:39.980 --> 00:19:44.180 need it. It's a catch -22. So we look for funders 00:19:44.180 --> 00:19:46.779 to help us keep those programs going for the 00:19:46.779 --> 00:19:48.160 children that are here and then our military 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:52.380 families that rotate through. So we normally 00:19:52.380 --> 00:19:54.740 start our veteran radio programs talking about 00:19:54.740 --> 00:19:58.559 our jazz military career so that our listeners 00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:01.460 know that this person maybe has walked in their 00:20:01.460 --> 00:20:04.670 boots before. We didn't do that here because 00:20:04.670 --> 00:20:07.910 I wanted to get right into equine therapy and 00:20:07.910 --> 00:20:12.089 the current need at stable strides. I'm hoping 00:20:12.089 --> 00:20:15.470 some folks will reach out and help support. But 00:20:15.470 --> 00:20:17.809 Michelle, let's back up. I think we mentioned 00:20:17.809 --> 00:20:22.269 you went through the Air Force Academy. You became 00:20:22.269 --> 00:20:26.849 a pilot. You flew overseas. Tell us a little 00:20:26.849 --> 00:20:31.779 bit about that. Then we also touched on that 00:20:31.779 --> 00:20:33.000 you were in the White House. Well, you were a 00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:38.900 White House fellow. And again, recently retired 00:20:38.900 --> 00:20:43.079 back to Colorado with your husband and family, 00:20:43.299 --> 00:20:45.720 your husband, a former Air Force pilot as well. 00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:48.819 But tell us a little bit, let our listeners know 00:20:48.819 --> 00:20:52.299 that you're the real deal. Well, I graduated 00:20:52.299 --> 00:20:54.759 from the Air Force Academy in 2003 and then I 00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:57.579 went on to fly the C -130 and then the MC -12 00:20:57.579 --> 00:21:00.759 which is a King Air 350 that does manned intelligence 00:21:00.759 --> 00:21:03.640 surveillance and reconnaissance. So I did my 00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:07.819 tours in Afghanistan and we would fly over continuous 00:21:07.819 --> 00:21:10.279 operations so that we could watch the ground 00:21:10.279 --> 00:21:12.099 and we could send down real -time surveillance 00:21:12.099 --> 00:21:14.380 to the ground troops so they could make battle 00:21:14.380 --> 00:21:16.240 decisions and we could also do battle damage 00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:19.109 assessment. But while I was there, I got very 00:21:19.109 --> 00:21:21.509 close to the Afghan people. I also taught English. 00:21:21.750 --> 00:21:23.509 So in addition to being a pilot, I was an English 00:21:23.509 --> 00:21:25.789 professor at the Air Force Academy. So I did 00:21:25.789 --> 00:21:28.289 a lot of volunteer teaching for the young girls 00:21:28.289 --> 00:21:31.490 in Afghanistan teaching English and some young 00:21:31.490 --> 00:21:33.769 men that were there. So I also had interpreters. 00:21:34.230 --> 00:21:36.529 And when it came time to come back to the US, 00:21:36.569 --> 00:21:38.750 I was a White House fellow under both President 00:21:38.750 --> 00:21:41.650 Trump and President Biden. And I did speech writing, 00:21:41.849 --> 00:21:43.869 military advising. And like I said, I was there 00:21:43.869 --> 00:21:46.849 the night of the Afghanistan fall. And then I 00:21:46.849 --> 00:21:48.869 went on to the Pentagon. I did future warfare 00:21:48.869 --> 00:21:52.309 in the joint staff. My final assignment was the 00:21:52.309 --> 00:21:54.410 Air Force sent me back to work at NORAD in Cheyenne 00:21:54.410 --> 00:21:56.650 Mountain. So I was deputy command center director 00:21:56.650 --> 00:21:58.390 watching all of the missiles around the world. 00:21:59.109 --> 00:22:01.710 And now I still work with the Air Force Academy 00:22:01.710 --> 00:22:04.289 as an admissions liaison officer. And I'm also 00:22:04.289 --> 00:22:07.670 one of the theater officers in charge. So we're 00:22:07.670 --> 00:22:09.660 doing something around the roof. But I bring 00:22:09.660 --> 00:22:12.420 all that up to say, I went back and forth between 00:22:12.420 --> 00:22:15.119 flying airplanes and also teaching. So I really 00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:17.079 had the left and right brain going because I 00:22:17.079 --> 00:22:20.299 taught English. And what I noticed a common thread 00:22:20.299 --> 00:22:23.460 through both flying and doing operations overseas 00:22:23.460 --> 00:22:26.779 and then teaching was really the humanity, that 00:22:26.779 --> 00:22:29.240 part of it. We can get more and more advanced 00:22:29.240 --> 00:22:31.980 in technology and AI and our combat systems, 00:22:31.980 --> 00:22:34.119 but at the heart of it, it's really the people 00:22:34.119 --> 00:22:36.019 that we need to take care of that are still making 00:22:36.019 --> 00:22:38.789 the original decisions. And I was noticing a 00:22:38.789 --> 00:22:41.690 heavier and heavier load on a lot of our young 00:22:41.690 --> 00:22:45.309 guys who did 11, 12 deployments. So I went and 00:22:45.309 --> 00:22:48.130 decided to get a master's degree also in psychology 00:22:48.130 --> 00:22:50.289 and become a life coach. And the reason I did 00:22:50.289 --> 00:22:52.950 that is because as much as we've worked to reduce 00:22:52.950 --> 00:22:55.849 the stigma and mental health in the flying community, 00:22:56.230 --> 00:22:58.589 in the last three years, I have lost people that 00:22:58.589 --> 00:23:00.869 are very near and dear to my heart to suicide 00:23:00.869 --> 00:23:03.750 because they could not come forward. In the flying 00:23:03.750 --> 00:23:06.269 community, if we come forward, you will still 00:23:06.269 --> 00:23:08.390 have the possibility of losing your wings, which 00:23:08.390 --> 00:23:10.529 to many people is their livelihood. And it's 00:23:10.529 --> 00:23:12.289 not just the flying community, a lot of special 00:23:12.289 --> 00:23:14.730 operations. So we're working on getting that 00:23:14.730 --> 00:23:16.990 to be much more open and reduce the stigma. But 00:23:16.990 --> 00:23:19.630 the point is a lot of people won't go through 00:23:19.630 --> 00:23:21.670 TRICARE or won't go to the VA, but they will 00:23:21.670 --> 00:23:24.029 go to a private life coach. And if they go to 00:23:24.029 --> 00:23:26.549 the private life coach like me, I work in the 00:23:26.549 --> 00:23:29.160 grief and I work in all of these areas. to be 00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:30.880 able to give them an avenue and i'm not saying 00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:33.299 go around the military system i'm saying i'd 00:23:33.299 --> 00:23:35.680 love for it to augment i would love for our people 00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:37.339 to be able to go to their health care provider 00:23:37.339 --> 00:23:40.200 but also also see someone like me who's a life 00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:43.539 coach that can walk you through a lot of the 00:23:43.539 --> 00:23:45.759 same challenges that you would talk to with a 00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:48.059 therapist so um i've joined with a group out 00:23:48.059 --> 00:23:50.839 here that does retreats for veterans and we bring 00:23:50.839 --> 00:23:52.900 people out here who are facing some of the toughest 00:23:52.900 --> 00:23:56.220 situations you can imagine suicide and grief 00:23:56.220 --> 00:23:58.359 and loss and we bring them out to do a retreat 00:23:58.359 --> 00:24:00.799 with equine therapy. So that's in addition to 00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:03.339 Stable Strides. We do that for anyone in the 00:24:03.339 --> 00:24:05.660 entire country listening. You can reach me through 00:24:05.660 --> 00:24:08.200 stablestrides .org and we can talk about those 00:24:08.200 --> 00:24:11.400 veteran retreats. Well, one of the things we 00:24:11.400 --> 00:24:14.440 try to get when we're promoting nonprofits and 00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:17.200 supporting nonprofits like Stable Strides is 00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:19.279 we want our listeners to know, as I mentioned 00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:21.779 a minute ago, the person organizing it, running 00:24:21.779 --> 00:24:24.440 it, the person who's going to be a fiduciary 00:24:24.440 --> 00:24:27.900 of the funds that you donate, has a heart and 00:24:27.900 --> 00:24:31.319 a brain in the right spot. And clearly, Michelle, 00:24:31.779 --> 00:24:36.980 you do. We've been longtime friends. So I know 00:24:36.980 --> 00:24:40.599 better than most and your family. So I know everything 00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:44.720 is in the right spot. So we're glad to bring 00:24:44.720 --> 00:24:49.410 stablestrides .org to the forefront. to highlight 00:24:49.410 --> 00:24:52.769 the value of equine therapy, but also the struggles 00:24:52.769 --> 00:24:56.250 in today's climate to financially be able to 00:24:56.250 --> 00:24:58.390 keep something like this going. And we'd encourage 00:24:58.390 --> 00:25:00.750 folks to go check it out a little bit more. And 00:25:00.750 --> 00:25:05.809 if you feel compelled to support the cause. So 00:25:05.809 --> 00:25:07.849 Michelle, I really appreciate the time that you've 00:25:07.849 --> 00:25:11.410 given us today on Veterans Radio. Thank you, 00:25:11.690 --> 00:25:13.730 and I want to thank everybody for listening to 00:25:13.730 --> 00:25:17.390 veterans radio today. I am Jim Fawzone It's been 00:25:17.390 --> 00:25:19.990 a pleasure to be your host I'm a veterans disability 00:25:19.990 --> 00:25:22.990 lawyer at legal help for veterans and you can 00:25:22.990 --> 00:25:26.069 reach us at eight hundred six nine three four 00:25:26.069 --> 00:25:29.670 eight zero zero or legal help for veterans comm 00:25:29.670 --> 00:25:33.170 on the web you can follow veterans radio on Facebook 00:25:33.170 --> 00:25:36.109 and Listen to its podcasts and internet radio 00:25:36.109 --> 00:25:40.940 shows by visiting us at veterans radio org That's 00:25:40.940 --> 00:25:44.200 veteransradio .org. We would again want to thank 00:25:44.200 --> 00:25:47.299 our national sponsors, the National Veterans 00:25:47.299 --> 00:25:52.779 Business Development Council, nvbdc .org. 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