Today's Veterans Radio program is dedicated to
all the men and women who have served and are
currently serving in the United States Air Force
throughout the world. From the studios of Ave
Maria Radio in Ann Arbor, this is Veterans Radio.
And now, here's your host, Bob Gould. Ah, yes,
here we are once again for another Veterans Radio
program right here on our flagship station W
-D -E -O, W -D -E -O right here in beautiful
Ann Arbor, Michigan, the Garden Spot. the Midwest
and they're also part of the odd Maria Network
mm -hmm today we've got a program well you know
we like to do programs not just in the past but
of the future and I have a guest that is absolutely
dynamite doctor Rebecca Grant she's been on the
program before she's a spokesperson with the
Air Force and she will be our guest today and
talking about defense strategy Air Force defense
strategy into the next Decade and with me operating
the board is our board person Nina. How you doing
Nina? Good morning, Bob. How are you today? Oh,
you're gonna say hello to your mom and dad. Hi
mom and dad. I love you Oh, that's great. Okay.
Yes, we do a lot of that and she's got a big
smile on her face mom and dad Okay. Well, we've
got dr. Grant coming on the program in just a
few minutes here. We've got what do we have Nina?
She's signaling me. Well, we have our first break
good We'll be back with defense strategies into
the next decade with Dr. Rebecca Grant right
after this message. Oh yeah, Nielsen Schmielsen.
That was the album. That one's from Jumping to
the Fire. We may be jumping to the fire. There's
going to be a whole lot of changes. A whole lot
of changes with our defense budget in the next
decade. And we have on the, well, you know, first
of all, I think I'm going to give you just a
little bit of background very quickly. Back in
the beginning of January, President Obama announced
his new defense strategy. This is all, I believe,
part of cost shifting, etc. And it shifts the
U .S. from a decade of war in Iraq and Afghanistan
to where we're going to be changing our whole
strategy as to whom we're going to be targeting.
Ooh, maybe that's a bad pun, but... we're going
to be we're going to be looking at terrorists
and then to quote president obama get rid of
outdated cold war era systems okay well he was
talking about it's clear that some prominent
remaining cold air war systems will live on and
that includes the b -52 bomber and the u -2 spy
plane Wow, it's all part of a foundation of U
.S. nuclear deterrent strategy. On the line with
me right now is Dr. Rebecca Grant, who is president
of IRIS, I -R -I -S, the Independent Research,
a public policy research organization in Washington,
D .C. Dr. Grant is an active member of the Air
Force Association. She writes regularly for Air
Force Magazine. and served from 2008 to 2011
as the founding director of the Mitchell Institute.
Dr. Grant, welcome to Veterans Radio. Thank you,
Bob. It's nice to be on this morning. Well, it's
nice to have you. Well, let's talk about those
Cold Era, Cold War Era systems, namely the B
-52 who, how many times have they had the rec
room for that? for that wonderful war bird, and
it's lived on and lived on for 60 years. I know
recently you had the occasion to fly in one.
Why don't you tell us about that? Oh, I'm so
glad I can start there. I was the guest of our
Air Forces out on Guam, which is out in Micronesia.
You know, Guam is eight hours' flight away from
Hawaii, so it really is the piece of sovereign
U .S. soil the furthest out in the Pacific. We've
had bombers stationed on Guam on a rotational
basis for about the last eight years. I visited
there during a big exercise with Air Forces from
Japan and Australia and my hosts were the 23rd
Bomb Squadron from Minot Air Force Base in North
Dakota. They were so kind as to let me fly in
the little what they call the instructor pilot
seat, which is right behind the pilot and the
co -pilot in a B -52. And I got to make a flight
and see how they do their mission. It was just
one of the most exciting days of my life. What
did it sound like inside the bird? The power,
you just can't imagine. The B -52 has eight engines
on the wing. And the power when they start those
things up is incredible. You have to wear earplugs
just to walk out to the airplane. You have to
wear earplugs in the airplane underneath your
flight helmet. So it sounds like all the power
of the human race combined into one sleek, dark,
gray aircraft. Could you see the ground from
where you were sitting? I heard that the pilots
can't really see the ground, that they have to
look straight out. Is that true? Well certainly
they can see the runway and I was a little bit
back of them but had a really good view and that
runway on Guam is so historic. It's built partly
of coral and it has a shiny white glow to it.
It also has a little rise at the end of the runway
and at the end is a cliff that goes right down
into the Pacific Ocean. So you go down the end
of this super super long runway and lift up And
suddenly, there below you are the waves crashing
as you are peeling off into the sky. But the
power of the B -52 is pretty immense. And we
lifted off. It seemed like, as they say, like
a homesick angel, the B -52 lifted off. So it's
pretty neat to feel that. And your heart was
pounding. It certainly was. Next time, please
take along somebody from Veterans Radio. I volunteer.
They told me never to do that in the Army. I
still, I volunteer. Absolutely. Now, when we're
talking about Cold War era systems, the B -52,
what is the future for the B -52? Well, there
is a long future ahead for the B -52. It just
seems amazing, Bob, because this is an aircraft
that was designed in the early 1950s. Hundreds
of them were built. We now have just over 70.
left in the active flying force. There are four
squadrons. Two are based up at Minot in North
Dakota, including the one I flew with. And there
are two others down at Barksdale Air Force Base
in Louisiana. But these aircraft have a very
important double mission. They contribute to
nuclear deterrent. And they also perform conventional
missions, which is, of course, what they were
doing out on Guam. So they're part of all the
war plans for the Pacific Theater. That means
these crews have to be very proficient in the
exacting standards of flying with nuclear weapons
and training to use them if necessary. And also
with training to use conventional weapons, particularly
whether that would be gravity bombs or air -launched
cruise missiles, conventional air -launched cruise
missiles. And the fact is we plan to keep these
bombers flying for another couple decades. Well
some think that the US should do away with the
bombers role as part of the triad land sea and
air Because well, we're not we're not having
that same. I guess you'd say the enemy or that
same strategy We really have terrorists. I don't
think the B -52 is going to work well for terrorists
or will it what do you say about that? Well really
good question Bob actually the B -52 has done
quite a bit of work not in recent years, but
early on in Afghanistan Just a little 10 years
ago, there were B -52s based out of Diego Garcia
and they were flying conventional missions, dropping
bombs in Afghanistan on terrorists while U .S.
Army and Marine and coalition forces were fighting
on the ground. They did that again in Iraq in
2003 and now the B -1 bomber performs that mission
daily. But we're talking about the B -52 and
it has a role still in these conventional operations
but... Its nuclear deterrence role is still very
important. There have been some significant changes
in our nuclear posture as a result of the agreements
between Obama and Medvedev back a couple years
ago. And so we see reductions going on. There
were some cuts made to the B -52 fleet. But it
remains an important part of the triad. And Bob,
the thing that people really stress about the
bomber in this case is the B -52 and the B -2
stealth bomber. in the Triad is that it's a very
flexible weapon. You can forward base a B -52
on Guam, for example, and send a message to the
region. And it's a two -sided message. One, it
shows that American power is there, and that
points to countries, perhaps like China, who
are improving their military capabilities and
says, hey, we're only going to let you go so
far. But the other half of the message goes to
our allies and partners in the region. And it
says that American military presence is here
and withstand with our allies when it really
counts. So when we hear that the Obama administration
to cut costs is going to be cutting back on the
number of nuclear weapons because there's going
to be a cutback in the role of the bomber, that's
pretty accurate and it's not really, it's not
really, should I say this, going to be a detriment.
to our capability for preventive of a nuclear
war, correct? That's right. The desire has been
and the treaty now is an agreement to come down
to some lower numbers and I think that's probably
a healthy thing. But we want to be sure to maintain
that triad and that's the administration's policy
right now. We do hear a lot of discussion about
whether the submarine force or the intercontinental
ballistic missiles, the land -based ICBMs down
in their silos, or whether the bombers should
be reduced. But most of the professionals in
the business, and particularly the commanders
of strategic command who are responsible for
carrying out that mission, they want to keep
the triad because each part of it brings some
significant advantages. and the nuclear deterrence
is stronger with each of its three legs rather
than going down to just two. Well, here is another
aircraft, a favorite of mine, and that is the
A -10 Warthog. This thing was scheduled to the
scrap heap many times. It's been reconstituted,
reincarnated. It's still a stick and rudder.
It's not run by computers, folks. I mean, the
guys have got to sit in, guys and gals, oh lord,
I've got to make sure I get that right, and they
can sit in, the pilots, there we are, in the
cockpit and fly the darn thing, get low to the
ground. It's very effective against the Al Qaeda,
the Taliban, et cetera, et cetera. What is the
role for the warthog, the A -10? You're right.
We're going to keep the A -10 and pilots really
do love it. I'm sure glad you said the men and
women who fly the A -10 because one of the most
famous incidents with the A -10 occurred back
in 2003 when a young woman, Captain Pilot, brought
her A -10 back with significant battle damage
back to a base in Iraq. And she had lost some
of the hydraulic systems. that control the aircraft,
and she had to manually fly that aircraft in
using a lot of muscle power, and she did it.
Did a real good job. That's one thing the pilots
love about the A -10s is rugged durability. We've
seen in Iraq and Afghanistan much more use of
strafing, just like you remember from the World
War II movies, with all sorts of aircraft down
at low level strafing against Al -Qaeda and Taliban.
to pin them down while coalition forces maneuver.
The A -10 is a master at that. Boy, when I've
seen film of the A -10 and that 30 millimeter
Gatlin gun in the nose, wow! I would not at all
want to be on the receiving end. I don't know
of any other aircraft that really can do that
in this day. How should I say, powerful and so
much a part of our deterrent. So the future will
be that we're not going to be losing the A -10
anytime soon. Is that correct? No, there will
be. I think they're going to trim the A -10 for
us a little bit. You know, we just had a big
round of budget cuts come out a couple weeks
ago, and I think they will retire a few of the
A -10s, but the weapons system as a whole is
due to stay around. They, in fact, have taken
some steps. to expand the life and to bring it
up so that it can put more hours on the A -10
by strengthening the structure. So they plan
to keep A -10s in the force. The program that
I saw regarding the A -10 that the pilots had
at one point, this one pilot had three missions
in four hours. He was in the cockpit. He hot
-fueled, meaning he did not get out of the cockpit.
From what I understand, he didn't even shut the
engines off. and he was back out there again.
Wow, what durability. They actually had the poll,
the pilot, the service people, the techs had
to poll the guy out at the end of the day. So
that says a lot though for the pilots to feel
that way about their aircraft and to feel that
way about flying something that still is stick
and rudder. You still got to fly the darn thing.
Speaking of... And I did not know that this was
still part of the Air Force. I thought they'd
retire it. What about the U -2 spy plane? U -2.
So there's an aircraft that's a real contemporary
of the B -52 in design. Such a famous plane designed
in the mid -1950s to be a super high altitude
aircraft that could fly over the Soviet Union
in secret and take pictures. of the developing
missile and bomber force. Remember, this was
right after the Soviet Union had tested its first
atomic and then hydrogen bombs. And we were desperate
to know what they might have in that country.
Totalitarian states, so the U -2 was developed
to be able to fly over the Soviet Union. And
very famously, one was shot down in 1960 by a
surface -to -air missile. The U -2s today are
the same plane in spirit. They are a little bit
newer and they have some significant redesign
that was done in the 60s, but they're still an
old plane. They're still manned. They're very
light. They fly at super high altitudes. The
pilots have to wear specialized suits. But what
they do now is their mission is to collect all
sorts of intelligence. They take pictures. That
can be electro -optical, which is what you think
of like TV. It can be infrared, which is looking
for hot It can be synthetic aperture radar where
a series of radar shots work at longer range
to form a really good image of maybe an enemy
missile site or something like that. And they
also scoop up what's referred to as signal intelligence.
So they listen to what the enemy is broadcasting
and what its weapons are saying. The U -2s have
been pretty busy on, you know, when there are
tensions in Korea, you'll find the U -2s flying.
They fly. missions in Europe as well and they
fly missions around the Middle East. But the
astonishing thing is the Air Force had for some
years planned to retire the U -2 because in the
end it's a great plane but it's limited by the
endurance of the pilot. Then just a few weeks
ago the Air Force reversed its position and said
that in fact they will keep the U -2 and they're
going to retire a much newer system called the
Global Hawk, which is an unmanned high -altitude
drone aircraft. They're not retiring all of them,
but they're retiring about a big portion of the
fleet. It was really a shock here in Washington
to hear that the U -2 would stay and the much
newer Global Hawk would have some retirements.
You know, that's interesting because everybody's
talking about unmanned this and unmanned that,
and you know what? they still need somebody to
fly the darn thing and here they are they're
finding out that the pilots are still needed
now one of the things that happened when the
u2 was shot down that well what have they are
they flying the u2 higher up in the up in the
up in the atmosphere to to keep that away or
is it still vulnerable to surface air emissions
Well, the U -2 and in fact just about every aircraft
we fly is vulnerable to surface -to -air missiles.
Like I said, this happened back in 1960 and it
showed that surface -to -air missiles were now
capable of targeting higher altitude aircraft
under certain conditions. So the shootout of
U -2 is in fact, you know, really a chapter in
history for many reasons, but partly because
it led us to start developing a technology known
as stealth. And stealth didn't come to fruition
for many, many years afterwards, really not until
the early 1980s. But stealth was devised so that
it could evade radar detection by these surface
-to -air missiles, like the one that had shot
down the U -2. And so it's from that that we
see stealth becoming a huge piece of our top
combat aircraft. Well, that's a great segue into
our next aircraft, but before Before we do that
we have a caller Rod from Colorado another beautiful
state. Oh, yeah skiing in Colorado How's the
snow out there rod? It's still there Bob. It's
still there you want some No, I mean yeah, it's
okay for snow, but I'm waiting for spring and
it's gonna happen here I'm sure it's very beautiful
in Colorado right June or July Bob Okay, I'll
remember that and I'll book my reservations.
Rod, you have a question for Dr. Grant. Go ahead.
Yeah, first thing I want to say is, do I have
Dr. Grant correct? Didn't I see you quite a bit
on the Military Channel? Yes, that was me. Okay,
well I want to say I appreciated your information
and certainly recognize your expertise because
you really came across very professionally and
very knowledgeable on that program. I enjoyed
seeing you there. Hope to see you again there
sometime soon. Oh, thank you very much. You're
welcome. My question has to do with, when we're
talking about Air Force defensive strategy, I
always think a good defense is a good offense.
Does the Air Force going to be taking any responsibility
as far as EMP weaponry goes, either defensively
or offensively in the next decade? Well, Rod,
that's a great question you're asking about EMP,
which stands for electromagnetic pulse. And that's
something that can happen in a bunch of different
ways. And in fact, lightning is a problem there
as well. You'll be glad to know, and you may
already, of course, that aircraft are what they
call EMP hardened. So take an aircraft like the
B -2 stealth bomber. It's built so that its skin
surface and its flight controls and the cockpit
glass and most importantly its electronics can
withstand EMP radiation for example from an enemy
nuclear weapon or from another big high pulse
source. So EMP hardening is still certainly a
part of aircraft design. You're also asking a
little bit about EMP weapons and let me just
turn that. to talk for a minute about directed
energy weapons and we think of that most commonly
as a laser. I expect that we will see laser weapons
within the next couple of decades. The Air Force
developed a system you may be familiar with called
the airborne laser. It was a chemical, a liquid
chemical laser. Boeing was the main contractor
built for a wide body jet and able to use a laser
to shoot down missiles in flight. They worked
a long time on the system and made some great
strides. It was canceled recently because it
just wasn't quite where they wanted it to be
and there were some budget issues too. But the
thing that we want to move to is to look at a
solid state laser for airborne applications.
The problem now is that they're at low power,
but I think the science tells us that we'll see
higher power output from those solid state lasers
in the future. And so Bob, if you and I are doing
this show 20 years from now, Rob can ask us about
how we think these laser weapons are working
on in aircraft in the future. So I certainly
see that, not in the short term, but in the medium
to longer term. Rob, does that answer your question?
Yes, it sounds good. And Dr., thank you very
much. I guess I'm more confident now with the
rise of Chinese weaponry. that the Air Force
and the Department of Defense is well aware of
what's going on there and it's got some plans
to counteract anything that the Chinese can throw
at us. So, Dr. Grant, I wish you continued success
and hope to see you back on Military Channel
real soon. Great. Thank you so much for your
call. Thank you for being on the air with us,
Rod. Sure, Bob. Thank you. Bye -bye. Well, there
you go, folks. Now, if you have a question for
Dr. Grant or a comment, Why don't you give us
a call? It's toll free. Don't cost you nothing.
That's right. Not too many things today that
are Gratis that are no cost and you can give
us a call at eight seven seven five seven three
seven eight two five That's eight seven seven
five seven three seven eight two five. We're
now going to get into stealth How how how did
that how did that come about the whole technology
finding out about that was that? Was that something
that we copied something or a facsimile of something
that we copied or was it strictly developed by
the United States engineers? Dr. Grant? I am
going to call that as strictly a U .S. invention
and one of our very best. Certainly there were
some scientific principles and things that we
learned from long research on electromagnetic
spectrum, but stealth is something we invented
here in the U .S. It grew out of early research
on missile nose cones and by the early 60s there
were some bright radar engineers who said, wow,
when that shape is smooth like the front cone
of a missile, I can hardly see it on my radar.
And from that came the idea of building an aircraft
that used those smooth and radar controlling
technologies. Much easier said than done. And
a key breakthrough came when an engineer named
Dennis Overholzer, who worked for the Lockheed
Aircraft Company out in Burbank, California,
read a paper that had been written by a Russian,
interestingly enough. But Dennis Overholzer's
insight was he said, hey, if we made an airplane
that used facets, diamond shapes, on the outside.
We could add up all the angles, figure out where
the radar energy was going, and instead of sending
that radar energy back to the enemy radar, we
could send it off and scatter it into space.
And that became the genesis of the F -117 stealth
fighter. That breakthrough, a really American
invention. Is there something else in the coating
and in the paint that's also radar absorption?
Absolutely Bob, that's quite right. So the idea
was with the radar the energy goes out it hits
a big target like a like a B -52 and it's metal
and it bounces right back and tells you where
the aircraft is and where it's heading gives
you, you know, altitude and asthma. The idea
of stealth was partly to use the shape of the
plane to send the radar waves off in a different
direction, but to help with some of that they
had to develop radar absorbing material called
RAM so that some of the radar waves would sink
in to the skin of the aircraft and again not
get returned back and give an accurate position
on the aircraft. RAM was especially important
early on And the engineers say that you get most
of your stealth results from the shape, about
two -thirds or three -quarters, and the rest
comes from the radar absorbing materials. Luckily
those have come a long way, but the key breakthrough
was the development of the F -117. It was developed
in great secrecy in the late 1970s. And then
the Air Force produced 59 F -117 aircraft. They
were built quite quickly in the early 1980s.
and of course made their great public debut in
the Gulf War of 1991. Where they were responsible
for, they flew over a very heavily defended areas
in Iraq and in Baghdad by themselves and dropped
bombs on key targets and took out probably about
40 % of the fixed strategic targets while flying
only about 2 % of the total aircraft sorties.
Wow, that was, I have to stop you. We're coming
up on a break. Take a break yourself, because
I know you've done a lot of talking. We'll be
right back, Veterans Radio. Lieutenant Robert
Nett was seriously wounded during hand -to -hand
combat, but continued to lead his men. Details
after this. Nett commanded Company E in an attack
against a reinforced enemy battalion that had
held up the American advance for two days from
its entrenched positions. around a three -story
concrete building. With another infantry company
and armored vehicles, Company E advanced against
heavy machine gun and other automatic weapons
fire, with Nett spearheading the assault against
the strong point. During the fierce hand -to
-hand encounter that ensued, he killed seven
deeply entrenched Japanese with his rifle and
bayonet, and, although seriously wounded, continued
to lead his men forward, refusing to relinquish
his command. Again, he was severely wounded.
but still unwilling to retire, pressed ahead
with his troops to assure they'd capture the
objective. Wounded once more in the final assault,
he calmly made all arrangements for the resumption
of the advance, turned over his command to another
officer, and then walked unaided to the rear
for medical treatment. The Medal of Honor series
is a production of Veterans Radio. There we go,
we're back right now, Veterans Radio, and we're
talking with Dr. Rebecca Grant. Dr. Grant is
president of IRIS, Independent Research, a public
policy research organization located in Washington
D .C. She's also an active member of the Air
Force Association. Dr. Grant, I hope you had
a cup of coffee during that break. I sure did.
Yes, you did. You really covered a lot of ground.
By the way, folks, if you have a question for
Dr. Grant or a comment you want to know more
about, the defense of the Air Force for the next
decade or just about any Air Force question,
you want to call us at 877 -573 -7825. That's
877 -573 -7825. Dr. Grant, we were talking about
energy radar absorbing material, paint. We were
talking about stealth. Now, when I was down in
Dayton for the Dayton, Ohio Air Show, about three
years ago. I heard that the F -22 Raptor, the
Joint Strike Fighter, was going to be the last
manned fighter, the last one, after all that
history, T -47s, and the F -16, etc., that the
F -22 was going to be the last manned fighter.
How is that all shaping up, Dr. Grant? Well,
we're actually going to have for sure the F -35.
So we've been talking about stealth and our two
new stealth fighters are the F -22. Did you see
one there in the museum in Dayton when you visited?
No, I did not. No, they were just going to get
that when I was down there. That's right. They
have one now that was actually used in the test
program. They flew it so hard that they decided
it probably wasn't safe to fly anymore. It seemed
to be perfectly fine, but it pulled more Gs,
or gravitational forces, than they'd ever seen
pulled in a fighter. So when the test program
was completed, this one went off to the museum
in Dayton. Two new South Fighters. F -22 is ending
production in May. The Air Force has acquired
183 of those. The big new program that's going
through production now, just beginning to ramp
up, is the F -35, and it's the Joint Strike Fighter.
I want to talk about both of those, if that's
okay with you, Bob, because they're two pretty
interesting stories. Oh, fire away, Dr. Grant.
Well, let's start back with F -22. We had been
talking about the F -117, and Bob, I don't know
if you've ever seen a picture of that, but that
was a pretty funny -looking jet. It had the nickname
the Cockroach, and people looked at it and said,
oh, it'll never fly. Well, of course it did,
and it was a super aircraft, and they're now
retired. But the F -22 was planned to take all
the great advantages of a fighter. Supersonic
speed, flying faster than the speed of sound,
extreme maneuverability, the ability to pull
9Gs and put that together with stealth. So it
required some huge technology breakthroughs.
And it looks real different. If you look at the
F -22, which I had the great privilege to do
last week out in Hawaii, the Hawaii Air National
Guard has several F -22s and they're building
up to a full squadron. I got to walk around and
look at theirs. It's very sleek. All of its surfaces
are designed for stealth. But in the back are
two extremely powerful Pratt & Whitney engines.
And these engines just make this the best fighter
ever designed or flown. And pilots say it almost
flies itself. It's really different from the
A -10. We were talking about the A -10 earlier,
Bob, and how it's really a stick and rudder aircraft.
Of course, there's still those features in the
F -22, but the computer integration with the
F -22 is just superb. So it is our high -end
stealth fighter. It's better than anything else
in the entire world. I'm not boasting. This is
just fact. it can go faster than the speed of
sound without using afterburner. Do you know
what afterburner is, Bob? Yes, I do. Yeah, it's
when, and you see it, you know, you see a lot,
like when a carrier aircraft takes off and you
see that big flame, you know, the flare coming
out the back, that gives it that speed for takeoff.
Well, the F -22 can go faster than the speed
of sound without using that, which is tremendous
in fuel efficiency and also in helping it stay
stealthier. It's extremely maneuverable, so it
is really the top end. It's there in case we
need to win air superiority against a peer competitor,
a country like China with a big air force. If
we need to gain control of the skies in that
situation, we're going to need the F -22 for
the future. The program, the other one I want
to talk about, of course, is the F -35. And it
is the reason that F -22 is not the last. banned
fighter. So seeing the success of the 117 and
also of the F -22, the decision was made by the
Navy and the Air Force and the Marine Corps and
Britain's Royal Air Force to get together on
a stealth fighter program. They started this
research back in the 90s and the result is Lockheed
Martin's F -35. And there are three types of
F -35s. They're very similar, not exactly alike,
but they're very similar. There's the F -35A,
and that's regular runway takeoff. The Air Force
is buying that version as are several of our
top allies. It's scheduled to buy it as well.
Then there is, bear with me here, there is the
F -35B, and that is the Marine Corps version.
actually one of the first ones to go into test.
And so the Marines are pretty far down the road
in having that capability developed and ready
to go. The unique thing about F -35B is it can
take off vertically. So it's what they call STOVOL,
long acronym, stands for short takeoff and vertical
landing. So that's, do you know the Harrier,
the AV -8 Harrier that goes up and down? Yes.
The F -35B is the replacement for the Harrier.
Now that was British, right? The Harrier? That's
right. The Harrier was a British design. Fabulous
aircraft, really tricky to fly. And there's some
real combat losses from the Harriers. But the
Marine Corps bought them so that they could do
expeditionary operations. And so they can operate
off amphibious ships. which to you and me, Bob,
would look like smaller aircraft carriers. They
wouldn't to a Navy man or woman, but to us they
look like small aircraft carriers. So that's
the F -35B, and the Marine Corps will be buying
that variant. They are completely committed to
it as being part of their aviation modernization.
They've waited and put off purchases of other
aircraft they might have bought in order to get
F -35B. Wow, that's not it. There's a third variant
as well, which I can tell you about. That's going
to that. Oh, yes, go ahead, please. OK, so remember
I said the other big partner here was the United
States Navy. And of course, they do carrier operations,
big deck carriers. When I was in Hawaii last
week, I was I was at Pearl Harbor, Joint Base
Pearl Harbor, it's called now, together with
Hickam Airfield, both so historic. And I happened
to be driving right along the channel. when an
aircraft carrier came in. It was the USS Stennis
coming back from a long deployment. And it just
was so moving to see all the sailors in their
whites lined up along the flight deck, returning
from several months out in Central Command and
out in the Pacific. So future for naval aviation,
F -35C or Charlie, the C variant. It looks a
lot like the other two, but its wing area is
a little bit bigger. And of course, it's been
made more rugged so that it can take the stress
of carrier landings. And it has a tail hook,
still the system that naval aviators use to catch
a wire stretched across the flight deck. And
that's what slows them down and brings them to
the stop on the deck. And you've got to have
a pilot to do that, folks. Well. We think about
unmanned planes and they are great. We think
about Predator or the Reaper, which is a slightly
heavier version of Predator. But, you know, the
aircraft weight of those is very light. A Predator
weighs about 2 ,000 pounds versus a Beastie 2,
which weighs so much more. Even when you look
at a fighter like an F -15, empty weight of an
F -15 is, you know, 30, 40 ,000 pounds. So in
a light aircraft like Predator, which is used
for reconnaissance, it's really nice not to have
to put the weight of a pilot in. In a bigger
aircraft that's carrying a lot of fuel and weapons
and bombs, the weight of the pilot isn't as important
anymore. And what is important is the brains
of that pilot and their ability to get the mission
done. So that's why pilots are still pretty important
to these aircraft. Now, if you want to know more
about this, my listeners out there to Veterans
Radio, Dr. Grant wrote a paper on that. Dr. Grant,
would you tell us very quickly, we've got about
a minute before the next break, how can they
read your paper, what do they have to do? Sure,
this paper in particular is the case for a new
stealth bomber and it's available at the website
www .irisresearch .com, I -R -I -S research.
And you'll find it under the blog called All
Things Pentagon. Case for the new stealth bomber.
Okay, folks. You've heard it right here. We're
going to go to our next break, our last break
in the program. If you have a question for Dr.
Grant, give us a call at 877 -573 -7825. That's
877 -573 -7825. When we come back with Dr. Grant,
we're going to talk about Airpower in the Pacific.
We talked a little bit about China and I know
at the last program she Mentioned that on China.
So you're gonna stick around here and get all
that information. We'll be right back Yeah, there
it is the Air Force song off we go into the wild
blue yonder We've got our last segment here at
veterans radio If you have a question for dr.
Grant regarding Air Force power in the next decade
Call us toll free at 877 -573 -7825. 877 -573
-7825. Our operators are standing by to take
your call. All the lines are open at 877 -573
-7825. Also, I want to get in that today's program,
of course, the Marine Scholars Program at Ave
Maria University. Getting back with Dr. Grant,
last time you were on the program you talked
about China. We didn't get into that as much
as I would have liked to. No, we're not. They're
not enemies. Whatever, folks. This is not it.
But we don't ever want to get our knickers down
like we did over at Pearl Harbor. So we have
to be prepared for that. And right now I'd like
Dr. Grant to talk about air power in the Pacific,
which I'm sure will include China. Dr. Grant,
take over. Absolutely. Here's a key event of
2012, and that was the January release of a new
strategy affecting, you know, and it's called
Sustaining U .S. Global Leadership Priorities
for 21st Century Defense, released by the White
House. And it specifically says that we need,
of course, to continue with the counterterrorism
work that we're doing, that we've been doing
for 10 years, but that our focus for the future
is increasingly on Asia. And there are two pieces
to this. One, quite frankly, is countering the
rise of Chinese military power, which has gone
up a lot over the last 15 years. And the second
piece intertwined is strengthening our relationships
with our many partners and allies in the region.
That starts with allies like Japan, Australia,
and moves right on through to nations that are
allies and partners. And that Pacific Theater
is really all about doing that. There's another
piece of it, too, I want to mention right up
front, and that is responding to natural disasters.
It's been just about a year since the tsunami
and nuclear disasters in Japan. And we carried
out what is called Operation Tomodachi. There
was assistance from the Navy and from the Air
Force in that. Our Air Force commander in the
Pacific who is a four -star general named Gary
Norris, he likes to say that mother nature can
rear her head more quickly than any enemy and
often cause more devastation. So part of our
military power there is to be able to respond
to disasters and in so doing help to build up
our relationships with those in the region. But
the other big piece of this frankly is getting
us into a posture where we can effectively deter
the rise of Chinese military power. We know China
is an economic powerhouse, but they've matched
that in the last 15 years with great improvements
in their Navy, in their Air Forces, in their
cyberspace capabilities. They knocked a satellite
out of orbit back in 2007. It was one of their
own. but it was widely seen as a demonstration
of their extremely sophisticated capabilities.
We know they have plans for activities related
to the moon and certainly they are asserting
their dominance in the Pacific. What we want
to do there I think as a nation is balance that.
I foresee decades of us maintaining military
power that matches and that frankly that overmatches
China's so that there's no question about China
being able to expand its influence beyond where
we and our allies would like it to go. So to
do that, just think of the map of Asia. It is
such a huge region. That is really an air power
theater. Naval force is very important as well.
But as we look at deterring potential Chinese
missile threats or aircraft, it really comes
down to our bombers, our fighters, our satellites,
and our command and control network. And most
of all, our deployable air power to be able to
maintain U .S. interests out in the Pacific region.
Now, you talk about an air -sea battle, a five
-year effort by the Air Force. Why don't you
talk a little, and the Navy to share the tactics,
talk a little bit more about that. Have you covered
that or do you have something else you could
add? Oh, well, let me add, that's a great question,
Bob. Air -sea battle, big effort by the Navy
and the Air Force. Everybody knows it's not always
easy for two services to get together and really
seriously work on this. I give a lot of credit
to the Chief of Naval Operations, Admiral Gary
Ruffhead, who just retired. Admiral Jonathan
Greenert has continued that, the new CNO, and
to Air Force Chief of Staff, Norton Schwartz.
They have gotten together themselves, they've
gotten their staff together, and the whole point
is to say, all right, Navy, what do you have
out in the Pacific and Air Force? What do you
have in... in planes, in weapons, in command
and control, in maintaining missile warning,
in cyberspace and the connectivity. So they are
working very hard to make sure that they can
share their budget responsibilities and come
up with the concept that ensures that China can't
steal one over on us out in the Pacific. So Air
-Sea Battle, very big, very real initiative,
really shows the need to cooperate. There are
a lot of logistical challenges in the Pacific
moving around people, planes, fuel, etc. and
it's going to take full cooperation from the
Air Force and the Navy. The fact that the head
of those two services are working closely together
should tell us all how seriously they take this
problem. Now, this is great because they call
this a segue in the radio business. You talked
about fuel. These Weapons have to be refueled,
and you've got here on your little email that
you sent to me about a new tanker being developed,
the KC -46. It's designed by Boeing. Tell us
about that. Oh, this is what makes air power
global. It's the ability to refuel in the air.
and the current fleet is pretty old. KC -135
tankers, they're the same age as those B -52s
and U -2s we talked about earlier. So just a
year ago, Boeing won the contract. After lots
of delays and questions, everyone in Washington
was really glad to see this move forward because
Boeing is now getting right into the detailed
design work on the new KC -46. It'll take a 767
airliner, which you've probably flown in lots
of times, and convert that to carry fuel and
also to carry some cargo and passengers and do
medical evacuation. But the main purpose of this
tanker is to provide fuel in the air to our reconnaissance
and our combat aircraft. You just can't fly a
bomber or especially a fighter out in the Pacific
without that air refueling available. They'll
need it if they're going into a strike mission,
they need it right before the strike. They really
need it right after the strike. And it's air
refueling that gives us that global power. Absolutely
essential and great to see that program going
forward so that we can keep that reach out in
the Pacific. Now, of course it is. You're running
out of fuel, you've got to find yourself a way
back. I'm trying to picture this C -46. How much
larger is it in the KC -135? It is quite a bit
bigger because the KC -135 is built off a 707,
a little narrow body, very elegant, very efficient
aircraft. But the KC -46 will carry quite a bit
more fuel and you're really going to need that
on Pacific where every aircraft needs the fuel
that the tanker itself will be air refuelable.
Our current tankers aren't, except for a handful.
These tankers, so if one tanker is ready to go
off station, it can take the rest of its fuel
and put it into a tanker that's staying on station.
And if you believe it, those were some lessons
that were learned on long missions in Afghanistan.
There were some missions up there where it's
winter time and the weather's terrible and aircraft
are several hundred miles from their bases and
they absolutely have to have fuel to get back
safely, to get back at all. and so they would
actually try to, you know, they need to transfer
fuel from tanker to tanker. They also refuel
some of the big planes like the AWACS, which
is an airborne radar surveillance plane. Basically
every combat aircraft out there needs fuel and
it's not just Air Force planes. The Navy relies
on big Air Force tankers. Our allies rely on
them as well. So they are absolutely essential.
We just don't have the ability to Strike and
deter and hold targets at risk without a tanker
tanker has to go forward and it is Thank You.
Dr. Grant. I do have another listener gave us
a call that's Fred from flip and he has a question
for dr. Grant regarding certain models of planes
and Recent missile launch. We've got about two
and a half minutes Fred Welcome to veterans radio
Thank you. Good morning. Pepper five Wondering
if you could tell the audience, whatever happened
to the YF -22 fighter jet, and also the complementary
various jets I have learned. Much of it is foreign
made, including communist China. And last question,
there was a missile launch, last year I believe
it was, last summer maybe, that was supposedly
a visual mirage. out tongue -in -cheek joke.
But it was eyewitnesses said it was a missile
launch off the California coast. Dr. Grant? Fred,
absolutely. Let me take that last one first.
I remember... We only have a minute and a half.
We got to do this quick. Okay. I read the reports
like you did on the TV stuff on the LA, whatever
it was. I don't know anything more than you do.
So let me get into YF -22. YF -22 was the technology
demonstrator that won the competition for Lockheed,
and it became the F -22. There were some changes
made to it, but it became the F -22, so that's
what happened with it. Fred, you asked, are there
foreign -made components in U .S. aircraft like
some of the fighters? And the answer in some
cases is yes, but... Remember, the program managers
tightly control and are not allowed to use foreign
components in some key technology areas. So rest
assured that they watch that pretty closely and
know very well and do the really sensitive stuff.
That is all done with U .S. sourcing. Well, okay.
Well, thank you, Fred, from Flint. Boy, what
an exciting program. And we've come to the end
again. Dr. Grant, would you please come back
on the program? I certainly will, Bob. I love
Veterans Radio and I enjoy talking to the listeners
today. Well, thank you very much. And if you
want to know more from Dr. Grant, you want to
go to www .irisresearch .com. Dr. Grant, you
have yourself a blessed day and we'll talk to
you soon. You're listening to Veterans Radio.
You are dismissed. All views and opinions expressed
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