Welcome to the voice of Americans veterans veterans
radio And now live from a of 990 wdeo studio
a Ann Arbor, Michigan your host for today's program
former helicopter pilot sky chief to zero 195th
assault company Republic of Vietnam Dale throne
Good morning, America, and welcome to Veterans
Radio. It's such an honor to be here to talk
to you about these brave men and women that we're
going to be talking about today. I'm very excited
with today's program, but before we get to that,
I've got Bob Gould as my air boss today. Stand
in the door. Good to be with you, Dale. It's
good to have you here, and I've got Gary Lilly
who's trying to run our webcast at a secret location,
so we won't be able to talk with Gary, but I
think he's... They were having a fundraiser here
at WDEO last week and unfortunately some of the
equipment didn't get put back where we thought
it should be. Yes, but we may do. I think we
may do. I've got to get Gary to record though
because it looks like right now it looks like
we might not be webcasting at this particular
moment. But we'll get that figured out as we
go along. So those of you out there, be patient.
We will not have a camera in the studio today
so luckily you won't be able to see my pretty
face. But we will be talking. to our guests and
we have a bunch of slides that hopefully we're
able to get up and we'll be able to show you
of the events that occurred. We're going to be
talking about an incident that occurred back
in 1968 and I really want to make sure that you
stay tuned for this program because we're calling
it or it's called Left 4 Dead and this is about
a helicopter crewman whose aircraft was crashed
and unfortunately he was left out in the field.
We're going to come back to that in a moment
but we have him on our program. He did survive
and we also have his major at the time who came
out and got him which is just a great story because
they both were out there in the middle of the
night and I think you're going to find it to
be fascinating. I've heard that place. We're
back on veterans radio and we're going back in
time folks. We're going to go back to the night.
of the 29th of January, 1968, the night before
the Tet Spencer actually occurred. And we've
got two people that were intimately involved
in what was going on there. And I'm going to
bring them both on our program right now. And
first of all, I want to welcome Wendell Skinner.
Wendell, welcome to Veterans Radio. Good morning.
How are you doing, Wendell? Pretty good. I'm
just getting started. It is exciting to get started.
Also joining us on our phone is Wendell's commanding
officer at the time, and that was Major Earl
Carlson. Major, welcome to Veterans Radio. Welcome.
Nice to be there. It's nice to be anywhere sometimes,
isn't it? Nice to be alive, yeah. Considering
the alternative, right? It's a good deal. Well,
I'm really excited to have both of you on our
program today, and I'm going to start off with
Wendell. I'm going to have, this may get difficult,
I understand that, but let's go back. to that
night of 29 January 1968. Tell me a little bit
about the mission you were on and what happened.
Okay, we were with a Lerp outfit, the 51st Emissary
Airborne Lerps and we had several teams out along
the Ho Chi Minh Trail and actually we were in
the company area watching a movie and just as
the movie ended the siren went off. Well, That
meant we got to get on our horse and get out
of there. If I remember correctly, we didn't
even have anybody go to the operations tent to
get the coordinates. We just got the chopper,
which would be me, Frank Miller, and Woody Woodworth,
who was my pilot, and Tom Campbell was my co
-pilot. We just took off and Woody was... getting
the coordinates as we were flying to the site.
And as we were going to the site, we also got
in contact with the team and they were whispering
on the radio, which meant, you know, that BC
was probably right on top of them. And they told
us they were pretty deep back in the jungle and
they were trying to get to the LZ and they had
a blue strobe light and they would hit that thing
every now and again just to let us know where
we were at, because I think they called flying
in a holding pattern. I'm not sure about that.
We just had to kind of fly in a circle to wait
until they told us to come in. So when we got
the word to come in, we started in the LZ. And
as I remember, we were taking a little bit And
at night it's even worse. Cause I mean, you're
trying to look for obstructions and everything,
but it was a, it was a pretty clear area. And
I was a lot of chatter going on and I looked
up front to say something to Woody and all of
a sudden all this stuff come flying over the
windshield. And next thing I know, um, I mean,
I'm laying in a bunch of wires and I had no clue
what had happened. And what happened is the that
area had just been burnt out for some reason.
Now this is near Bearcat, Vietnam. I got that
mistaken when I put out the flyer. That's cool.
But it's okay because some of the people that
were there corrected us right away, didn't they?
That's okay. Anyway, well, that's cool, because
the guys on the website, our website, the 195th,
you know, they're pretty much up to date on all
this stuff. But anyway, we come in and in talking
to Woody just the other night, we go over this
thing every time we talk. And he said that he
just lost contact with the ground. He had no
clue. And he thought he was close to setting
down. Well, he just cut power. He said we hit
real hard and he went flying out of the front
windshield and still in his seat and his one
arm just about got tore off. It was all screwed
up, of course. I didn't know all this until after
the fact. I'm laying underneath the helicopter
and I really am not sure what's going on. I knew
I was in a bad way, but I thought I was dreaming
and I was waking up and passing out. And I kept
hearing all this chatter outside. I actually
saw a gunship fly over once. And I kept hearing
that thing circle. And all of a sudden, the chatter
stopped. And then I hear the slow whine of that
chopper motor whining up. Man, I'm in dead silence.
And I thought, holy mackerel. I mean, I thought,
man, what is going to happen here? I had all
kinds of things going through my mind. Then I
just kept passing out, coming to, passing out,
coming to. And evidently it was about a five
hour, six hour period. Maybe that might be a
little bit much, but it was like from nine o
'clock to one in the morning. The major can probably
expound on that a little bit better. All I could
think of when I woke up every time is if the
VC come inside or come into Chopper and find
me, I mean I was all tore up and I figured they
would just shoot me because I wouldn't be much
good to them. Well your leg was hurt pretty badly
wasn't it? Well it was pinned under the helicopter
and I was actually, I was kind of sitting in
an upright position with my leg. leg under the
top of the roof my knee and my thigh was just
completely crushed by the helicopter but believe
it or not I wasn't feeling any pain and I don't
know if that's a mental mechanism kicking in
or you know I have no clue so I'm all of a sudden
I'm you know I'm I'm thinking all this stuff
and then I'm going in and out and I never heard
Major Carlson's helicopter come up, so I must
have been completely out. Then I hear this noise
and I'm thinking, oh boy, this is either good
or bad. I don't know who came up into the chopper,
but whoever it was kind of looked down. It was
like a matter of fact, you know? And so they
get me out and I'm going, I remember being put
on the evac helicopter, which Major Carlson was
flying, and I remember going into the 1930 evac
hospital, but when I woke up the next morning,
I was in a ward of amputees. Everybody around
me was an amputee. I'm not looking, you know,
I just, I just looked at the ceiling and I was,
I was just petrified. I thought, Oh man, I, you
know, I've lost a limb or something, but you
know, still I was grateful I was alive, but you
know, you don't think about a lot of that stuff.
And then the doc came in and I just looked at
him. I said, am I in one piece? He said, yeah,
but he says, you'll never, you'll never walk
right again. And anyway, from there I came back
to camp Zama, Japan. Then I went to Watson Army
Hospital and then I ended up at Valley Forge
for a year. Rehab and you know, all the stuff
they did to me. Let me stop you there. Okay.
I want to go back to the night that you were
shot down or crashed and I want to try to set
up the picture for our civilian audience. I want
you to imagine that you're driving in fog. I
mean really thick fog. You can't see the ground
and you're trusting your own judgment instead
of the instruments, which is what they always
taught us in high school. Trust your instruments.
And you suddenly stop 10 feet short of where
you really wanted to be. And then you just let
it coast forward and you crash into the wall.
That's similar to what happened. Sounds like
what happened. I'm sure he probably got a little
bit of vertigo and wasn't sure what was up and
what was down and thought, man, I'm so close
to the ground, I'll just land right now. because
of all this ash flying around. So he brings it
in hard, and when he brought it in hard, the
pilot goes out the windshield. This is what...
I mean, seat and awe. We used to sit in armored
seats, and he goes out the windshield, just about
tears his arm off. There was a lot of panic and
a lot of concern on the ground because you not
only had a helicopter that had now rolled over
and just about beat itself to death, probably.
Oh yeah. You've got a team of special forces
on the ground and everybody's trying to get everybody
out and get them on that one helicopter and get
them out because they're, by the way, they're
getting shot at at the same time. Yeah and it's,
you know, what happened and Woody and I were
talking about this the other night. We had a
belly man that went out with us and he was actually
a pilot that we just, he wanted to go along and
experience a night extract. Well, we think that
when they found him It was me. Oh, okay. So in
the meantime Woody They got out of his seat and
he was over there He heard me screaming and he
was trying to dig me out when he passed out from
loss of blood And you know when they found him
they just threw him and it's pitch black I mean,
you know, and I'm not sure if these guys had
flashlights. I have no clue You know, we flew
these guys everywhere, but I never paid a lot
of attention to their equipment they carried.
I'm sure they had those red flashlights. Yeah,
with a little red covering over for night vision.
Right. And I mean, I don't know how good those
are in the dark, but you know, and another thing,
where we were at was a big buildup for the set
offensive in that area. And I'm sure that the
BC did not want to compromise their position
or what we was going to happen the next day by
coming in there and just killing everybody because
reactionary force would come out of it. I think
that's what they call it and it would have probably
blown a lot of their cover. I was talking to
another veteran of the Tet Offensive a couple
of days ago and he mentioned that he had come
around the corner. He was in Saigon or someplace
outside of Saigon and he had driven a jeep around
the corner and he said he saw a whole bunch of
NVH regulars and he figured, well, I'm done.
and they just let him drive right on by because
they didn't want to, you know, wreck their time
schedule that they had for their three acrylic
attack. We're talking with Wendell Skinner and
Major Earl Carlson of the 195th Assault Helicopter
Company and we're talking about the night that
Wendell got, aircraft got shot down and he was
caught underneath it through panic and confusion.
He was left out in the field for about five hours.
before a rescue was attempted. Now I want to
go over to Major Carlson. Major Carlson, tell
me what happened around midnight that night for
you. Well, let me clarify a couple of things
first. For those who are uninitiated, the LRP
that Wynn was talking about is the Long Range
Patrol. These were groups of special forces which
the 195th helicopter company had been tasked
to take out along the Ho Chi Minh Trail. Laos,
Cambodia, and Vietnam, and capture the stragglers
and bring them back for interrogation so we could
put together a puzzle about where they were coming
from, how they were moving, and so forth. And
there is about 20 miles east of Saigon, down
near the Delta area. Well, you want to clarify
this point. I also say how impressed I was, Dale,
that you were a member of the 195th sometime
after I had left. That's right, and I heard all
the stories. It's great to talk with people that
I only heard about. Well, let me paint a better
picture now. I had sent from my unit a half dozen
aircraft up to a place called Strong Bay Mountain.
They clear off the peak of a mountain and build
a special forces camp there. That's where we
went. I put all of our people up there on a two
-minute notice. You sleep by your aircraft and
as soon as the first mortar comes in, if the
enemy chooses to take us, and they could have
at any time, but we want to make it too costly
for them, within two minutes I expected every
aircraft to be airborne. Get out of there and
come back and use our machine guns and rockets
to fend off enemy force. But we knew that there
were thousands, tens of thousands of people coming
down through the jungle out south towards Saigon,
the populated areas. And so I felt that we might
have been attacked any time, and that we were
doomed, but we were going to make them pay a
price for it. But the night before, we got a
call back, or the afternoon before, we got a
call back to Saigon with our helicopters, meeting
the Special Forces people there, which I didn't
like too much, but that's the way it was. That
night I was sleeping and after midnight somebody
came and woke me up and told me that we had lost
an aircraft. It was the first we had lost. We
had been through some pretty good battles by
that time but we hadn't had a loss of life or
aircraft. So I asked an ordinary question and
of course one of which is did we get all our
crew back? They said, yeah, we got everybody
but one who was trapped underneath the aircraft
and left for dead. I was incredulous. My God,
you don't go off and leave your people alive
or dead. That's the first order of battle among
professional soldiers. Never go off and leave
your dead in the battlefield. There's any way
possible if you get out of there. Of course,
I was furious with the pilot and co -pilot that
they would go off and leave him there. What I
didn't find out until... Wendell and I got back
together again a year ago, was that the pilot
and co -pilot and the other member of the ship
would all be up as bad as he was and I could
understand then that they, you know, they were
passing out from time to time just like Wendell
was. So it was a terrible scene there. So anyway,
I got a good co -pilot and I'd hopped him and
Chalford. We went out there and when I approached
the scene and it was full moon and the... The
trees had been burned out, but they still had
the limbs projecting up toward the sky. The ground
was covered with ashes. It was like something
out of a Boris Borloff, whatever his name was,
movie, a ghost scene. It was pretty obvious to
me that as soon as we came in there, we were
going to be flying blind. And so I told my co
-pilot, you watch carefully what I do now. and
get your mindset on where you are and what your
rate of descent is so that you can get down to
the ground and you're not going to have a lot
of load on the aircraft so you won't have to
worry about stalling out and crashing and you
bring it on in because I'm going to get out and
take the crew chief with me and I'm going to
go out and bring back a window. And so we made
that very good landing there and I was surprised
by it myself because we were blind about the
last 50 feet going in. Of course we would risk
another aircraft or another crew, but we often
take chances in combat and we do what you have
to do. Absolutely. And this doesn't quite track
with what Wendel just said, but I'm not quite
sure. You know, that was what, 43 years ago?
Well, you know. But as I recall, well, I'm sorry,
what is this, 33 years ago? I don't know. Anyway,
and I'm 81 now, so you'll forgive me if I have
a few cobwebs up there. I was sure that I heard
this squeam, this loud piercing squeam, which
made my hair stand up on end. And immediately
I recognized that he was out there and that he
was still alive. And so we got the crew chief
and we powered out of the aircraft with a toolbox
and told the copilot to get up and take it up
and wait for a call. I guess I recall when we
were ready for you. Can I just interrupt here
for a second? I want people to realize that you
were on the ground and you told your perfectly
good helicopter to leave you on the ground and
he took off and circled the area while you were
on the ground trying to get Wendell out. Well,
also we recognized there could have been anywhere
between 10 ,000 and 15 ,000, 20 ,000 NVA North
Vietnamese armies out there in V .C., and it's
pretty tenuous situation. But, you know, we weren't
getting any fire at that time, so we got a hold
of the tail section of the aircraft and lifted
up, the crew chief and I, far enough for a window
to slide out from underneath the aircraft. And
then we took what all we could in a hurry, and
I called my to bring it in, and we got what arm
we could off the aircraft and took Wendell back.
Wendell, you may not know this, but they came
out the next morning with the helicopter wrecker
crew and lifted that thing out of there and took
it back for salvage. We do have that, by the
way. Those of you that are watching our webcast,
we do have that picture at some point. I know
Gary's looking for it feverishly. right now of
the wrecked aircraft and of the Chinook sling
loading years out. Jeff, can I say something
about those photos? Terry Whelan, one of the
pilots, he took all these photos the next day.
So I want to give him credit in there, you know,
that he actually took these photos of the chopper
airplane the next day. I have to tell both of
you that I was able, when I went to the 195 website,
I was able to find a lot of photos that we're
using with today's webcast. You're not watching
it, but I can see right now we're looking at
the Chinook lifting your hair out of there. I'd
like to thank Mr. Whelan also for the photographs.
They're amazing photographs. I have to look at
these to remember what we did 43 years ago. Isn't
it amazing? Anyway, you got Wendell out. Yes,
and I took him over to the Medevac hospital,
which was not very far from our base, and I left
him there and tried to get back and get a rest
because I had to get the base prepared. We had
two helicopters come out, 68 aircraft, and I
was the base commander as well as the commander
of the 195th, and we had to get our positions,
you know, positioned and ready for a potential
attack. We hadn't been formally notified, but...
I knew from the movement that we were going to
be attacked. The whole area was. I mean, that
was my own instinct. And so I had to put Wendell
and the other guys on the back of my mind. When
I tried to find a pilot and copilot, they told
me that they'd been taken to the hospital. So
I just had to let them go. And of course, 3 o
'clock in the morning, we got the attack and
all hell broke loose. There are a lot of stories,
but let's not go to that. We'll get to that at
the bottom of the hour after we come out of a
break. I do want to talk about the Tet Offensive,
but we got about a minute before that break.
How did you guys hook up again? Real briefly,
Wendell? I was on the website and I saw the major's
name and he was posting about me. And he didn't
know who he was. He called me the kid. Called
me the kid. I was trying to find out what happened
to the guy with his leg cut off. They were just
looking for the guy with the leg cut off. I'm
going to cut you guys off right now. We're going
to take a break. But we'll be back on Veterans
Radio and we're talking today with Wendell Skinner
who was injured in a severe crash in Vietnam
and his commanding officer who came out in the
middle of the night and got him the night before
Tet. So stick around if you want to get in on
the conversation you can give us a call 877 -573
-7825 we'll be right back. The Medal of Honor
is the highest award for valor in combat given
a member of the Armed Forces of the United States.
There have been over 3 ,400 recipients of the
nation's highest award. This is one of them.
Army Captain Ed Freeman flew 14 rescue missions
under intense enemy fire saving 30 seriously
wounded soldiers. Details after this. As a flight
leader, Freeman supported a heavily engaged American
infantry battalion in the Ai Trang Valley in
the Republic of Vietnam. The unit was almost
out of ammunition after taking some of the heaviest
casualties of the war, fighting off a relentless
attack from a highly motivated, heavily armed
enemy force. When the infantry commander closed
the helicopter landing zone due to intense direct
enemy fire, Freeman risked his own life by flying
his unarmed helicopter through a gauntlet of
enemy fire time after time, delivering critically
needed ammunition, water, and medical supplies
to the besieged battalion. His flights had a
direct impact on the battle's outcome by providing
the engaged units with timely supplies of ammunition
critical to their survival. After medical evacuation
helicopters refused to fly into the area due
to intense enemy fire, Captain Freeman flew 14
separate rescue missions. providing life -saving
evacuation of an estimated 30 seriously wounded
soldiers, some of whom would not have survived
had he not acted. All flights were made into
a small emergency landing zone within 100 to
200 yards of the defensive perimeter, where heavily
committed units were perilously holding off the
attacking elements. The Medal of Honor series
is a production of Veterans Radio. There's a
familiar tune for some of you out there, just
as distorted as it was when we listened to it
40 years ago. Anyway, we are here on Veterans
Radio and we're talking with Wendell Skinner
and a major, Earl Carlson, and we're talking
to them today about Left 4 Dead is kind of what
we titled the program because Wendell aircraft
had been shot down, crashed, rolled over on top
of him, and they were able to get most of the
crew out except for him. When the major heard
that one of his crewmen was left out in the field,
he and another grabbed a ship and went out and
got them. And now we're just talking about how
they were able to connect with each other. So
if you're out there or if you're a part of 195th
and you'd like to give us your version of the
story, give us a call here on Veterans Radio
at 877 -573 -7825. We look forward to hearing
from you. Before you go back to a window, let
me make a couple comments. First of all, we organize
from nothing at Port Carson, Colorado. and the
people and the material and the aircraft and
everything was going in, coming in fast, and
I didn't have time to get to know the people
like I normally would have because I was supervising
all these activities going on, getting ready
to go overseas. And so I didn't know the names
of a lot of the people I should have known. Well,
you had a lot of people in your company, though,
too, sir. Yes, yes. I only had about 300 and
some of my own, but then another 300 and something
in the other unit that was assigned to our base.
I didn't know who it was that I had picked up
out there. I didn't know who the pilots were.
There were a lot of mains missing. When I put
my first notice on the 195th website, I said,
I'm looking for the man who had his leg cut off.
That's as much as I had because I'd been thinking
about him all those years. This guy answered
one of the things. He was trying to help me find
out who it was. So go ahead and win or pick up
from there. Well, I couldn't figure out why about
the guy with the leg cut off. And I thought,
well, you know, I was a guy that was picked up
and saved out there. And so I don't know. We
must have went back and forth on the website.
I don't know, two or four times. And I think
at the same time, we figured out that he was
looking for me and I was looking for him. I'm
telling you, it was one of the most emotional
things to know that. I mean, oh my, all this
stuff just kept flooding through my mind and
I've got chronic post -traumatic stress and it's
a big surprise. This is a little bit of closure
for me and I'm sure it is for the major. I mean,
the guys that started the website, the 195th
website, You know, Ty Furby said, oh, I think
Jay Hammond or I can't think of the other guy.
All of you guys were my heroes. I didn't even
know who they all were. When I got there, I only
heard stories about all of you. Well, you know,
I was the last person. I replaced a crew chief.
I came right out of Fort Rucker, out of crew
chief school, and my orders said, you're going
to Santa Deploying Unit. And it was a 195th aviation
continent for Carson, Colorado. And, you know,
when I got there, I think the first guy I ran
into was a guy named Steve Hascock. And he got
me in there and got me to the commanding officer's
office and got me set up. And I really never
got to know a lot of the guys because I was only
there, I don't know, two months before we left.
And a lot of that time was packing con exes.
You know, stuff like that, getting ready to go
overseas. I had never seen my chopper until I
got to Vietnam. I mean, there's just so many
things that come into your mind that you forget
after 40 years. Well, that is true. Fortunately
or unfortunately, Wendell, you were sent off
to Medevac Hospital and then off to Japan. Since
all that was occurring, Major Carlson had to
deal with another. project the next day around
three o 'clock in the morning. Can you tell me
a little bit about that? You mean me? Yes. You
were the one that was there. Yeah, you know.
We had a little disruption. Let me limit my comments.
How much time do we have? We've got about 20
minutes total. Oh, well I'm not going to take
anywhere near that much, but I want a couple
comments. The count of the unit, the 195th was.
Actually, I was sent by the D .A. and I reported
to the new commander from my base. I'd flown
up from Texas to support Walters. He said, you're
not going to command the unit under me. You're
a tech service officer and I'm not going to have
you. I'll get a combat officer. I went back to
Texas and called a Pentagon and they said, well,
he didn't have anything to say about it. You're
going to be the commander whether he likes it
or not. Yes, sir. I walk in and I say, Colonel,
here are my orders from the Department of Army.
I'm going to command this unit, whether you or
I like it or not. He stays off my back for 60
days, and if you don't like the way we're doing,
I'll call a Pentagon and ask to be relieved.
And we made a pact right there. And that's a
hell of a position to get into when you're going
to take a unit into combat. When they sent me,
almost all of the pilots were right out of flight
school. had never had one minute of flying time
from the time they graduated, the time they started
flying with us, which was a great liability,
but it was also a great asset because you hadn't
picked up any bad habits. And had a number of
officers who had just come back from Vietnam.
They weren't very happy about it. So, you know,
you got a bunch of lemons there, you got to do
something with it. So we turned out making lemonade
of them and we had a tremendous training tour
up in Colorado. We got to Vietnam and the second
night after we got there, they had a huge mission.
I don't know how many hundred helicopters were
out there. There must have been a bunch, but
we were 34 of them. We picked up our people and
took them out there. I had no idea how young
people were going to do first time in combat.
A lot of the young men had been drafted in. They
didn't particularly want to be there. but we
built a spare amount of a speedy car. We approached
this area and the rockets and machine guns were
going off and the flares were all over and it
was one hell of a battlefield out there. Here
we've got all these people we don't know. We
had picked up along the way and we're dropping
them in there. I've looked back a number of times
at the... the way in which those men conducted
themselves, my pilots and crew chiefs, and no
one got on the line, no one got scared, no one
screwed up, and for hours we were shutting those
people in and out of there with great discipline,
and I was so proud of those guys. And I just
had to take a few minutes to tell you how great
they were. Well, I can tell you that the tradition
that you started when you first got to Vietnam
continued on the whole time I was there. I've
never met a finer group of men in my whole life
because I was willing to lay their lives on the
line for anybody else. I was a hard nose because
I was over there once before. This was my second
tour and I made them run every morning. I made
the officers run with the enlisted men and all
of us and I remember falling down myself and
they all laughing at me. But I wanted them to
have self -confidence and the fear that they
could get back to our home unit if they got shot
down, those kind of things. Well, you had to
have a certain arrogance to be a pilot anyway.
You had to be confident. You were flying around
in a box that was a pretty good -sized target.
So you had to have a lot of courage, I think,
that most people didn't think about. And we didn't
think about it. We had a nice fan. We had a nice
overhead fan here to keep us cool. That's right.
I was actually in the hospital the next day when
the Tet hit and I think it was they overran the
Benoit Air Base at one time. There was an air
base there at the hospital if I remember correctly.
and they overran that and they came and got all
of the patients and they just put us in a bunker.
No weapons, nobody was with us and I thought,
man, you know, if they get in here, it's going
to be a mass slaughter. But anyway, they finally
got everything straightened out. But, you know,
that's just stuff that comes to your mind when
all this stuff you talk about. Well, we had some
pictures that were on our website, but I decided
that we probably didn't want to show them here
on our program because they were pretty graphic,
although probably people should see them, of
the result of the VC and the MBA probably in
the wire at Longbin, which was that plantation
where we lived at the time. They were everywhere,
it seemed. I never was a plantation that much.
I was always out. We were a bammie to it with
the special forces and we flew into Cambodia
every day for like three weeks. And then we came
back to company area for like a week and then
we went over to the work outfit. I think the
major thought I was out of song bay if possibly.
I don't know. Was that one of the things that
you was thinking about? Well, no, not really
because I had been told that you were attached
for that mission you were on to another unit
of the battalion unit. and that you were just
a tag along with him. I didn't really clear my
mind. I had a lot of things in my mind right
then. I can't imagine. We've got a picture of
Major Carlson up on our webcast right now, as
he looks probably today. If you get the opportunity
to go there, you can go back and check our webcast
after the program is over and you can see some
of the pictures that we've been showing there.
I did see a rather embarrassing one of a pilot.
I think his name was Woody. You had mentioned
before the one where he was sleeping. He was
probably exhausted after flying 20 hours of the
day. I saw him come up there and I went, uh -oh,
he's not going to be happy to see that one. You
know, I'll say something about Woody here. He
really talks about this every time we talk. He's
got a lot of guilt about... the way things went
and, you know, he lost sight of the ground and
he's really, I'm sure he's got a lot of problems
thinking that it's his fault that everybody got
screwed up. But, you know, I never once, never
once had any problem with what went on or what
he did. I mean, you know, like the Major said,
when you're in combat, there's a certain amount
of chaos and What he did what he thought he had
to do. He thought he was doing the right thing
and you know, he just it was just a decision
that he had to make and We all made those mistakes
we're coming up on another break So I'm gonna
have to cut you guys off here for just a second
once you make sure they just Stick around you
two and also to our audience. You're listening
to veterans radio. We'll be right back after
these messages There's another familiar song
for the some of you from the 195th out there
Probably other units listen to that song as well
on your nice TIAC reel -to -reel recorder with
your headphones on all along the way. We're talking
with Wendell Skinner and Major Earl Carlson of
the 195th Assault Helicopter Company, later changed
to the Aviation Company, a helicopter company,
whatever they wanted to call us. I think they
were trying to clean up our image a little bit.
But Wendell had been shot down and the aircraft
had rolled over on him and Major Carlson. had
gone out in the middle of the night and gotten
them out of there and they just met up with each
other again about last year after 42 years, one
year, something along those lines. Those numbers
are getting so high now I can't even count them
anymore. I don't want to. Dale, I'd like to do
two quick things if I could please with, excuse
me, Wendell. Wendell, first of all, was the swimming
pool still there at, what was the place you were,
did they ban me to it? No, I was never around
the swimming pool. Oh, this is a great story.
They stole that swimming pool from the Air Force,
sent a couple of trucks over there over the mountains
and offloaded onto their own trucks instead of
the Air Force getting them. Therefore, I never
figured I would have that great big swimming
pool. That sounds a lot like in 1969 when we
swiped a pallet of plywood from the Koreans and
built an officer's club. Oh my goodness. I actually
went into Bambi twice, one time going from Pleiku,
my first tour, up to Saigon. All aircraft were
forced to have a quick landing as soon as possible
because the Prime Minister had been assassinated.
And a few months later, going from Saigon back
up to Placu, because President Kennedy had been
assassinated. So that was too little encryption
to ban me to it, and they had a beautiful club
and pool and everything. But that was the first
time, and things tightened up a hell of a lot
after that, so I wasn't sure. The other thing
is, would you please ask Woody if he would call
me or email me, if you would give him my telephone
number and email address? I think you have both
of those, right? I can do that. We will do that.
Not a problem. So Major Carlson, I wanted to
ask you about the TET when they attempted or
did overrun Benoit and Long Bin. How long were
they able to hold the land or were we able to
fight them off at that time? Well, Long Bin was
oriented north and south basically and we were
on the west side of that airfield with the adjacent
of them. evacuation hospital across about a half
to three quarters of a mile. There was nothing
but brush and underbrush and a little rolly hills
there. And at three o 'clock in the morning,
all hell broke loose and the rockets and mortars
started going off and machine guns in starting.
We were getting 50 calibers through the water
tank and it was just one heck of a mess. And
I was afraid we were going to run out of ammunition
because we'd lost our contact. The wires had
been cut. And so I went out to the front to tell
the guys, you know, they were shooting like mad.
I said, don't shoot until you see something out
there. Don't just shoot ammunition. Well, they
said, yeah, we saw these couple of guys jump
up there and we opened fire. And then we got
a lot of fire back. What I finally surmised was
that a couple of V .C. had smuck in there and
one of them had a pink shirt on and I think everyone
had a blue one on if I'm not mistaken. And they
were jumping up to draw fire and then the fire
was going to the hospital and the hospital was
firing back with us with 50 calibers and big
ones. I thought well now a couple snipers like
that wouldn't have had 50 calibers. So I called
the hospital and the radio and said, I talked
to the CO and said would you please stop firing
for 15 minutes and I'll do the same as of right
now. and we'll see what's causing this, and nothing
but silence. So I realized then, I'm not sure
if it was the same hospital I took Wendell to
or not, but for whomever, we were flying back
and forth across there and finally got death
stopped. But the thing that really upset me,
it was the worst day of my life, was all this
firing going on and rockets and machine guns
and I'd call the NCOs and officers in the mess
hall to make sure our strategy wasn't who's going
to be responsible, what, and so forth. And all
of a sudden this tremendous explosion rattled
the buildings and everything. Everybody hit the
floor and I jumped up and ran across the body
and got outside just in time to see a nuclear
weapon. The crowd go up. And I had gone through
tests out in Nevada with nuclear weapons. I thought,
oh my God, Russia's into this. I've been reading
about the spy ship that had been captured by
North Koreans and we had done nothing, America
had done nothing about it. Reading in Newsweek
about the college campers and the riots and so
forth. I thought, man, here we are surrounded.
We have no chance of getting out of here. We're
going to be outnumbered and they're giving up
on us. Then I found out after about two hours
that a million gallon tank of the JP -4 had been
set off by sappers. That's what I saw. It sure
created a nice mushroom cloud. Well, there was
an ammo dump out, I forget what direction it
was, off to the east, I think, of the plantation
runway, somewhere out there. Yeah, yeah. Because
I can remember it accidentally. I think it was
one of the gunships. crewman had set off a rocket,
went off between his legs through the revetment
and out into the ammo dump and set off a nice
Fourth of July fireworks, but unfortunately I
think it was April. That was 1969. That was a
year later. Because our TET offensive was not
nearly as, obviously, as intense as the 1968
one. They just lobbed rockets into the revetments
and so forth. we were told to evacuate but we
couldn't evacuate because there were too many
rockets coming in. You know, our sister unit
there in Long Ben hadn't been as well trained
apparently as our guys had and they were a little
clumsy and they set off one of those rockets
and went right through the compound after getting
in. I think that was the 117th, wasn't it? Was
that the 117th? Oh, you mean the unit that fired
the rocket? Yeah, the guy were across the street
from where we were located. Well, we're coming
up against the top of the hour. Both of you gentlemen,
I want to thank you so very much for being on
Veterans Radio. Are there any last things that
either one of you want to say? I'm going to go
to Wendell first. I'm just thrilled that I got
this story out there. Soon, I'm going to try
to go see Major Carlson and give him a big hug
because without his efforts, I would not be here
today. Well thanks, when we got a guest wing
of a house, when you and your family are welcome
to come and stay with us, you get down this way.
Well, hopefully I can take care of that. I'm
working toward that goal. I would like to say
this too, that for all the guys and particularly
young men who were drafted in our unit, on that
first mission we had that scary night. A lot
of young boys became men that night and it was
one heck of a sight and from there on out we
were solid. We all appreciate those comments
because it's so important for people to realize
that we were fought as one unit. There wasn't
any dissension when we were out on a mission
and there was no dissension anywhere. Bob wanted
to ask a quick comment I believe. Hold on both
of you. Yes, I do, and I want to thank our guests
very much for being on the program today. I've
been sitting on the edge of my seat. I really
don't know how I'm going to come down from that.
What an incredible story. Thank you very much
for sharing that with us. God bless. I'm just
glad to thank you guys. This is what we're trying
to do, and this is a great example of getting
the stories out about two ordinary men who did
extraordinary things in an unusual situation.
and we are grateful to have both of you on the
program and we want to make sure that now that
you are here, it is archived and it's for posterity.
200 years from now, some distant relative can
pull this up out of the Library of Congress and
go, hey, that was my great -great -great -great
-grandfather. That's cool stuff, that is. I'm
far from the hero, the major's the hero. I mean,
I was just doing a job. That's what everybody
says. My other partner, Gary, says, you pilots,
you never talk about what you really did. And
we just said, we're just doing our job. Just
like everybody else. All the other military people
we've talked to, they were just doing their job.
When were you drafted or did you volunteer? I
volunteered. Well, I have a special feeling for
all the men who drafted. Those of us who volunteered
should have known what we were getting into,
you know. But to draft these, I really feel for
those guys, those both who are living and those
who didn't make it. I think that's a great tribute,
Major Carlson. I want to thank you so very much.
Wendell Skinner, thank you also. We're going
to get this book published for you and get that
story out for you. Major Carlson, we're going
to have you back on the program because you've
got other stories. I want to thank you both for
being on Veterans Radio. Thank you, thank you.
Next week we're going to be coming to you live
from the Military Writers Society Convention
in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Hopefully you come
on down and we'll see you at the Wyndham Hotel.
Until then, you are dismissed.