All across America and around the world, this
is Veterans Radio. This is Veterans Radio. And
now, your host for today's program, Jim Fossone.
studio in Northville, Michigan. Legal Help for
Veterans is a Veterans disability law firm, and
you can reach us at 800 -693 -4800. Our guest
today is Amy Shively Hawk. She's written a particularly
poignant and personal story about her father,
who was a captive in Vietnam. He was a pilot
with the United States Air Force. and was shut
down over Vietnam. Amy, welcome to Veterans Radio.
Thank you for having me, Jim. Why don't you go
ahead and start telling us about your father,
his early years before he got to the U .S. Air
Force Academy. Sure. Well, he grew up in Spokane,
Washington. Beautiful little city over here on
the west coast in the northwest and just had
kind of a typical middle class childhood. two
parents and a sister. He grew up just basically
obsessed with baseball and riding his bike. And
then in high school, he very much excelled there.
His parents were really keen on him getting a
good education and a free education. So they
basically required that he apply to the United
States Air Force Academy. It wasn't really something
that he wanted to do or had a passion for but
of course he did apply and he got in and then
that really set the course of his life from there.
It's an interesting story because often times
we hear of somebody who went to the academy who
it was their lifelong dream to go do that or
lifelong dream to go be a pilot but here really
Jim Shively went there for the education and
found that it was a difficult place for him originally
to adjust to, but it just he did, didn't he?
He sure did, and he really excelled there. He
was an excellent student, got very good grades,
and it was an expected course of action that
their highest students would go on to pilot training.
So he did and found that he just absolutely loved
to fly. It turned out to be really the passion
of his life. He went to pilot training. in Arizona
and then on to Nevada to Nellis Air Force Base
for his combat training and just loved it. He
was a risk taker but he was smart, he loved to
be in the air, he loved the exhilaration of it
and he was an excellent fighter pilot. And Amy,
one of the things that you've mentioned is that
he was a pretty smart guy, demonstrated in high
school how competent he was, but also at the
academy. The Air Force sent him on to Georgetown
University where he picked up his master's degree
in international relations before he went off
to fly in Vietnam. That shows you're a pretty
smart cookie and he, your father, certainly was.
He really was, and that degree ended up serving
him later in life too. So we'll get back to that
a little bit. That's why I wanted to make sure
we mentioned it up front, because it'll tie in
a couple of places where you go, well, this guy
is smarter than your average bearer. But tell
us about what experiences a young pilot in that
period of 68, 66, 67 would have been having in
Vietnam, how many missions they had to fly, and
those sorts of things. Sure. Well, he was sent
over in 1966. He was 24 years old, and he was
sent over to Southeast Asia to fly 100 missions
over North Vietnam. That was his assignment.
On his 69th mission, a surface -to -air missile
was shot into the back of his plane, and it exploded
the back off, and he had to eject out of the
plane. he was injured upon ejection and landed
in a rice paddy north of Hanoi. So he's, you
know folks, he's 24 years old or so when this
happens and as the title of Amy Shively Hawk's
book indicates, six years in the Hanoi Hilton,
he now spends the next six years as a Vietnam
prisoner of war. Amy, tell us a little bit about
your dad's early years adjusting to that difficult
situation. Well, it was obviously extremely difficult.
He had never expected or anticipated to be shot
down. As I mentioned, he was the best of the
best when it came to fighter pilots over there.
It was a very dark time for him. You know, they
captured him almost immediately, stripped and
beat him, paraded him through the streets, and
then threw him into what the prisoners came to
call the Hanoi Hilton, which was really a dungeon
-like holding cell internment camp. He was thrown
into solitary, tortured and beaten and starved.
He had infections that were left untreated, so
he really was near death in those first I would
say about six months. It's a miracle that he
made it through. And the physical deprivation
was as challenging as the mental or emotional
as I read your book. I really get a sense of
both things occurring to him. Can you talk about
that a little bit? Well, he talks about, you
know, I took this story based on tapes that he
left before he passed away because when I listened
to the tape it brought me into what he really
went through. He had never talked much about
his experiences when I was growing up in his
home and I think that's very typical of a lot
of our veterans. So that's why I wanted to write
this book and to bring out the fact that it wasn't
even just the physical debasement but the mental
torture that our veterans were put through as
well. He was really just dehumanized, you know,
forced to bow at any moment. He could have his
life taken from him. The interrogations were
brutal. And then, of course, they would plant,
you know, seeds in their minds like America doesn't
care about you. It was a lot of psychological
warfare as well that he had to work through.
So I know that in those first few months, he
He actually wished that he hadn't ejected out,
that it would have just been better if he would
have gone down with his plane. Amy, back up a
little bit and tell our readers about the source
material here. You were fortunate enough to have
your dad's own recollections recorded. Tell us
how that happened and how you used that information.
Well, it really was fortunate because he didn't
talk about it. Of course, when I was growing
up, And he's my stepdad. He married my mom when
I was five years old. He just didn't really talk
about it. We knew, of course, that he was a war
hero. He was a fighter pilot. We knew he had
been a prisoner. But the real details of his
captivity he kept mainly to himself. And it wasn't
until after he died that I discovered that he
had made some recordings with a reporter up in
Spokane. who had hounded him for years to get
his life story on tape because this reporter
was just fascinated and just felt that this was
a story that needed to be told and needed to
be preserved and so when my dad found out that
he had cancer and he got that diagnosis, it occurred
to him that this was going to be his last opportunity
to get his story out so I think it was just easier
for him to sit with the reporter than with any
of his family and after he passed away the reporter
gave me the tapes and I listened to them and
just sobbed my way through them because of course
I loved my dad and it was very difficult to listen
but as I listened I just knew that his story
needed to make its way out there not just to
honor him but to honor all of our POWs and veterans
that served. Well, I think that's an important
point that your book does pretty well, which
is it wasn't just Jim Shively who was a prisoner
of war. You talk about many of the other men
that he was captive with. Tell us a little bit
about those guys and the information you got
from some of them to help round out the story.
Sure. Well, I was able to interview John McCain,
who of course is our nation's probably most prominent
Vietnam prisoner of war. He was a friend to my
dad. They were in the camp together at the same
time. And I was able to interview him, get some
of his own personal stories, and then he wrote
the foreword for the book, which was very gracious
of him. But I found out a lot from the men. I
found out probably the main thing that I didn't
realize before was that it was really each other
that kept them going because they had to be strong
for the next guy. If they were in solitary, it
was very difficult because they weren't having
any communication and they had no one to rely
on. But when they were putting the camp with
other men in the cells, they felt that they needed
to be strong for each other. And so that was
one thing that really came out in the book was
that if it hadn't been for each other, it would
have been much more severe. And I think listeners,
this is why you really want to read the book.
One of the reasons is the story about how the
men, sometimes cellmates, Sometimes they're in
isolation and they're doing the tap code through
the wall, but how they got each other through
the mental hardship and the illnesses. I mean
a lot of illnesses just from their lack of food
and medical attention. You do a great job of
describing how they took care of each other in
that regards. Amy, do you want to tell one of
those stories? Sure, there's one story that comes
to mind. When my dad came out of solitary, they
threw him in a cell with a couple of other guys
and it was a lucky break for him because one
of the guys he had known in flight training school,
so they were able to reconnect. But what ended
up happening is that he ended up getting hepatitis
and he had raging infections because He was injured
upon ejection and so he had really deep cuts
in his arms that were left untreated and got
infected, so this infection was in his system.
He had dysentery, he was vomiting all the time
and when I interviewed his cellmate, his cellmate
told me, he said, Amy, I don't know if your dad
even knows this, but... We kept him alive. We
force -fed him the pumpkin soup stuff that they
gave. So if it wouldn't have been for these men,
he wouldn't have even survived. They made him
eat and kind of nursed him back to health. And
even some of the medical care they had to do
for themselves. You've got a story about your
dad having a raging ear infection, and sort of
the only treatment, if you will, was to take
the hot light bulb out of the ceiling to warm
up a plot so you'd have something hot to put
on that infection and hopefully try to drain
the pus. Oh my goodness! Did he talk about that
in his recordings or did you hear that from his
fellow prisoners? He actually did mention that
one. This ear infection went on and on and on
forever because of course they didn't give any
medicine out and They were forced to, if you
could call it, bathing. I think it was only once
a week in this particular camp that they were
able to get cleansed at all and then the water
was dirty. So it just wasn't healing up. And
he would take a wash cloth and get it hot on
the light bulb and then just press it to his
ear just to try to help with the pain. But then
he would also have his cellmate push on the back
of his ear pushed everything forward so that
the pus and everything could come out. Again,
I don't think many of us can fully appreciate
the deprivation that these men went through and
how they survived. Let's talk about some of the
things that they did as a group to help them
get through surviving. You write about Hanoi
University. Can you talk about that a little
bit? Sure. Well, that was something that came
up in the later years. It was about 71, I believe,
after Ho Chi Minh died, that the men were all
brought together into the same camp. The result
of that was that they were able to group together
in larger numbers, which was really a blessing
because they could take good care of each other,
but also they started a annoying university because
you have to realize just how boredom was the
other mental anguish. They weren't allowed to
have books. cards or anything that might exercise
their brains at all. So they started teaching
classes. They would assign one prisoner to teach
whatever he knew a lot about. And then they would
just keep teaching each other. But they ended
up making it very structured. So you would have
courses and classes and tests. And it turned
out to be a real blessing for them, just as a
way to exercise their minds. And again, I think
there's a little bit of that creative human spirit
where when you're working together, you talk
about how a couple of the prisoners were native
Spanish speakers, so they were teaching Spanish
to others, or your dad was teaching Russian.
He had had advanced degrees, as we mentioned
earlier, from Georgetown International Fairs
and taught some of that. I have to imagine that
that really elevated everybody's spirits thinking
about we might get through this although we never
know when we will be released. Can you talk a
little bit about how that not knowing when impacted
the men? Well, it was really a roller coaster.
There were so many kind of up and downs because
they would have air raids. The United States
would have air raids. So the men would sometimes
see the American B -52 bombers coming up over
Hanoi, and it would give them a great sense of,
okay, this war is about to end, America is coming
back for us. Well, those would come, and then
they would go, and there wouldn't be any change,
or the treatment would get even worse. So it
started becoming this extremely nerve -racking,
because it got to the point where they just felt
like they couldn't hope anymore. How many years
of torture and starvation have to go by before
you just start to completely lose hope? That
was the other reason that they really had to
depend on each other because even if a majority
of them were downcast and in despair, thinking
that they were never going to get out, never
going to get their lives back or die in the camp,
There would usually be one that was saying, ìNo,
come on guys, weíre going to make it out .î It
just takes that one person to lift up their spirits
and give them that resilience. That is really
what the book is about and itís really the message
of my dadís life is keep holding onto hope and
persevere and donít let go. What I realized when
I was writing this book is that his situation
was extremely brutal and most of us will not
ever have to face anything like that but we will
all have dark seasons. And I found myself even
just clinging on to this endurance that I was
kind of getting contagiously through my dad because
It really made me think, okay, if I'm going to
be strong like Jim Shively, I'm going to persevere
through this situation or this diagnosis or this
relationship issue, whatever it is. So this book
is really for anybody that needs an encouragement
to just keep hanging on, and you will triumph
on the other side. I absolutely agree with you,
Amy Shively -Hawk, author of six years in the
Hanoi Hilton. This book's about hope. As I read
what you wrote about whether it be the church
services that they held or the singing of the
national anthem to raise their spirits or the
American flag sort of made out of a tattered
handkerchief by Mike Christensen, a naval pilot.
These are stories you tell that give you hope.
Let's go to the time after your dad gets released
from the prison camps, returns home, decides
that he doesn't want to stay in the Air Force
as his career, and in turns to settling down
with the family and pursuing a new career. Tell
us a little bit about how he took those experiences.
forward for the rest of his life because while
he was in a prisoner of war for a long period
of time, you know, he had decades now to live
as a free man. Tell us how it impacted him. Well,
it really did. For one thing, there's kind of
a sweet love story in the book, kind of very
subtly, but he and my mom had dated in high school
and they dated while my dad was at the United
States Air Force Academy. But when he was sent
over to Vietnam and shot down, my mom didn't
know if he would ever come back or how long he
would be over there, if he would die. And as
the years went by, she finally realized that
she needed to move on with her life. So she met
and married my biological father and had me and
my little sister. But when Jim came home when
the war ended and he was released from prison
she ended up divorcing my biological father and
moving back to Spokane to marry Jim and it's
just kind of just another element within the
story of you know he thought that he had lost
the love of his life but really they were always
meant to be together and he they got married
right away he adopted my sister and I and raised
us in his home and then they went on to have
two more daughters and it was kind of funny that
they had four girls because one of the things
that he had said you know he only ever laid eyes
on men for six years he they never even saw a
female and he had said to his cellmate at one
point when i get out of this camp I want to live
in a house full of women. He got his wish in
that regards. He went on to become a practicing
lawyer and ultimately an assistant U .S. attorney,
I believe, in Washington State. Tell us a little
bit about that and his opportunity to use his
education to give back to veterans. Yes. He decided
that he was going to not stay in the military.
I think having my mom back in his life and then
having two ready -made daughters and they had
more kids right away, he just kind of decided
he wanted to stay put. Family became very special
and important to him. He didn't want to travel.
And he went and got his law degree, which he
turned out to be exceptional at. He had already
had his master's in international relations.
And he became a very well -known attorney for
the United States government. Before he worked
for the United States government, though, he
took on a case, Jim, that became widely known,
and it was for a Vietnam veteran. And he took
the case when nobody else would because the veteran
was clearly guilty and had committed a felony.
And my dad... looked through all his files and
met with him and said, I'm going to take this
case. And it turned out to be a case that really
turned out to advocate for veterans that needed
mental health care that they weren't getting
from our government. And so he was one of the
men at the forefront of standing up and saying,
OK, we need to take care of these guys. Before
post -traumatic stress disorder was even a term.
he was at the forefront of advocating for mental
health awareness for veterans. This is, listeners,
this is a story of a real American hero and that
term can be overused but when you read this book
by Amy Shively Hawk at six years in the Hanoi
Hilton You'll find out that Jim Shively was from
his entire body of work from what he did in the
service to his completion of helping veterans.
This is a guy that we're all really proud of.
Amy, I want to thank you for writing this. How
can people find out more about what you're doing
and find the book and that sort of stuff? Give
us a website or two that they can follow you.
Sure. I'm at AmyHawk .com. The book is Six Years
in the Hanoi Hilton and the foreword is by John
McCain. It's available on Amazon .com and at
Barnes and Noble and in bookstores near you.
And I wanted to mention that I am partnering
with the Headstrong organization, which they
provide free mental health care to veterans that
have post -traumatic stress disorder. It's an
organization that I found that is run by veterans
so they understand and it's a program that works.
So I'm donating part of the proceeds from this
book towards their organization because I know
my dad would like that. He would want this to
be about promoting healthcare and awareness for
veterans. Well, I'm sure he's proud of you up
there, and we're certainly proud of him. We really
enjoyed the book. I want to thank everybody for
listening to Veterans Radio today. I am Jim Fossone.
It's been a pleasure to be your host. I'm a Veterans
Disability Lawyer at Legal Help for Veterans,
and you can reach us at 800 -693 -4800. or legal
help for veterans dot com you can follow veterans
radio on facebook and listen to our podcast and
internet radio shows at veterans radio dot net
the medal of honor is the highest award for baller
and combat given a member of the armed forces
of the united states there have been over three
thousand four hundred recipients of the nation's
highest award this is one of the first class
paul smith gave his life to protect his troops
Details after this. On April 4, 2003, a call
went out for a place to put some Iraqi prisoners.
Sergeant First Class Paul Smith volunteered to
create a holding pen inside a walled courtyard.
Soon, Iraqi soldiers, numbering perhaps 100,
opened fire on Smith's position. Smith was accompanied
by 16 men. Smith called for a Bradley, a tank
-like vehicle with a rapid -fire cannon. It arrived
and opened up on the Iraqis. The enemy could
not advance so long as the Bradley was in position.
But then, in a move that baffled and angered
Smith's men, the Bradley left. Smith's men, some
of whom were wounded, were suddenly vulnerable.
Smith could have justifiably ordered his men
to withdraw. Smith rejected that option, thinking
that abandoning the courtyard would jeopardize
about 100 GIs outside, including medics at an
aid station. He manned a 50 caliber machine gun
atop an abandoned armored personnel carrier and
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was hit in the head. He died before he could
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is Veterans Radio. This is Veterans Radio. And
now, your host for today's program, Jim Fawzone.
Welcome to Veterans Radio. I am Jim Fawzone with
VeteransRadio .net. We're recording today from
the Legal Help for Veterans studio in Northville,
Michigan. Legal Help for Veterans is this Veterans
Disability Law Firm. You can reach at 800 -693
-4800. And we're really pleased today to have
a couple of guests on Veterans Radio to talk
about a Veterans Entrepreneurship Program that
the state of Florida is spearheading. We have
with us Dr. Sandra Kalanui, who's the Director
of of Institute for Entrepreneurship at Florida
Gulf Coast University. Dr. Sander, welcome to
Veterans Radio. Well, I'm glad to be here. And
we also have a veteran who has gone through the
program, a Marine, served eight years, James
Hardenbrook. James, welcome to Veterans Radio.
Thank you very much for having me. I appreciate
it. Well, we're glad to have veterans like you.
You served in the Marines for eight years, and
you've now been with the VA in Cape Coral. I
believe Florida is sort of a logistics manager
since 2012. And this program's giving you an
opportunity to branch into a new area. I think
something many of us think about doing, and that
is starting our own business. But Dr. Sander,
why don't you tell us a little bit about this
Veterans Florida Entrepreneurship Program? Thank
you. The program is designed to help veterans
start businesses. So we have, there are seven
different places across the state at universities,
seven different universities that have developed,
that have this program. And the way it works
is that veterans come in every other week this
year. Last year we did a little bit differently.
We're pivoting and changing as we go to see what
what are some of the best practices, but they
come into the university for a full day every
other week and we have a half a day of instruction
and explain to them, you know, different parts
of how to start the business and then in the
afternoon we bring in mentors from the community
that have been entrepreneurs and been successful
entrepreneurs who volunteer their time. to work
with the individual veteran to help them with
their particular plan and what they want to do.
And we do that over this year. It's over a 15
-week period. Every other Saturday on the alternating
week that they're not in the classroom or working
on their business in the university, they are
We do an online work with them. We communicate
with them. They send us information. We have
an online program as well. And for us, we've
made our university open to our veterans. So
we have an incubator, and they will come out
here. And two days a week, we open it for them
to come. They can come any time they want, but
two days a week, we're available one -on -one
to meet with them and help them during the week.
Because once they get started, they need help
going through the process and making all of the
pivots and changes they need to make as they
test different ways of starting their business.
Now, Dr. Sanders, did this idea start at Florida
Gulf Coast University or did it start at the
State of Florida's Department of Veterans Affairs?
Where did it start? It started, it was a grant
that was provided by the through the Congress
for the state of Florida to attract veterans
to Florida and to keep our veterans here. So
the grant was provided to veteransflorida .org
which is an organization that supports veterans
both part of the funding they get is to help
them with jobs and the other part is to start
entrepreneurship and start up entrepreneurial
business and they put out bids for grants and
the first year five universities received the
funding for this and the state and then it turned
out that the way it worked we ended up they came
back to us and asked Veterans Florida asked us
to develop the help to develop the curriculum
for the program because this was brand new and
we had been teaching entrepreneurship in the
classroom so we helped to develop it and and
train the other universities last year and then
this year it's grown to seven universities now
and we're all using the exact same program. So
what's nice about that is if it's Saturday and
it's a Veterans Day everyone is teaching basically
the same material and they're doing the same
mentoring in the afternoon. Could you give some
examples of what the curriculum consists of,
Dr. Sandra? Yes. It's based on the lean startup
and what that is is how do you come up with a
problem that needs to be solved in which people
are willing to pay you for. So something that's
a problem or a service, it could be a product
or service that people are willing to pay you
for. and how do you do it by developing a minimum
viable product, so develop something that's a
minimum service, minimum viable product that
you can economically get and start your business.
Once you start it and it can grow, then you can
start to do more and more services and more and
more things. But to begin with, let's not go
bankrupt. before you make sure that it's actually
a viable product. So if you do it inexpensively,
what that does is it allows you to test the product,
test the demand, and make sure that it's viable
before you go spend a whole lot of your life
savings on it. So we teach that. The Lean Startup
method is what we teach in the classrooms as
well. Four or five years it has become a major
change in the entrepreneurial world in how people
were starting businesses. Rather than going out
and trying to raise a million dollars and then
it doesn't work, let's test it with a small amount
of capital and see if we can get it. Well, I
think the listeners of Veterans Radio just got
their pearl of wisdom for the podcast because
there's none other than that right there because
so many times I hear people come in with these
grandiose plans. You really got to focus on,
as you say, that minimal problem to be solved
that can be started up and test the theory and
see if it works. Who's the faculty for these
sorts of things? Yeah, we use at our faculty,
I'm the chair of the entrepreneurship program
here at FGCU. We use, I do it, we have other
entrepreneurship faculty and we also use instructors
that teach in entrepreneurship. So we use our
entrepreneurship faculty and then we use mentors
who have been successful entrepreneurs. So we
use a combination of those to do the. And we
happened to have, at GCU, we were lucky enough
to get some donor money, which some of the schools
have and some haven't. That's really an individual
thing. And so we're able to help at the end by
having a compassionate shark tank. And so the
veterans were able to pitch for it. In addition,
we had some other funding from another veteran
that had specific requirements as far as years
of service. And we were able to get some of these
veterans seed funding so they didn't have to
go out and borrow money to start their business.
Well, let me bring in James Hardenbrook. Yes.
A Marine has a full -time job, it looks like,
and for many, that probably keeps them more than
busy enough, probably a family as well. And somewhere
along the line, James, you said, I want to get
into... business of my own. After your family
said you're nuts, tell us how you got attracted
to this program. Basically, I asked my wife.
I was actually sitting there one day at the house
and she came in and she said, hey, I'm pretty
sure you'd be interested in taking this program.
I said, all right, what is it? So she kind of
read off some things and I said, yeah, sounds
like something I might be interested in devoting
some time to. Well, long story short, over a
year later, I'm still working with them. We found
a business model that I like. One thing that
I like to do is take a look at other businesses,
how they operate, kind of apply the Lean Six
Sigma process to it and see how I could possibly
make it better. I had her sign me up for the
course. Went ahead, I attended the course. We
started looking at possibilities of different
things that we could do, and my wife staying
home, taking care of our daughter, she started
talking about wanting to gain maybe some part
-time employment. So what we came up with was
we could do a food construction trailer. After
we learned that a brick and mortar store cost
way more than what we could actually afford,
going through the course, we figured out that
the minimum viable So James, you're breaking
up a little bit. I'm going to have you get to
someplace where we can get some better clarity
on the phone call. But Dr. Sandra, in the curriculum
that you teach, are there, I mean, this is like
a segment on business plans or marketing or finance.
What do you walk through? Yeah, we first start
out with having them put together a business
model canvas, which is basically Okay, what's
the problem? What's the solution? Who's your
target market? How are you going to take the
market? And it's in a map sort of form, so that
before you try to write a full business plan,
you kind of map it out, and then how are you
going to test that it works? So how do you go
talk to people, get outside the building, talk
to people, and confirm that it works? So in James'
case, he found out that You know, really people,
there was a big diversity of where people were
that wanted his product and maybe, you know,
putting it in a brick and mortar store, not only
expensive, but probably wasn't the best way to
get to his marketplace. So, that goes going out
and testing it. We do that and we go through
each of the subsections as far as what that means.
You know, what does it mean? for how do you put
together your marketing plan, how do you put
together your pricing model and things like that.
Once they've done that, then they start to develop
a plan to launch their business. Very differently
than we talk about a business plan that tries
to project out five years and what wonderful
things you're going to do. Let's talk about launching
it and how long is it going to take to break
even because you need to have enough capital
so that you can launch it and you can break even.
And once you start to make money, it's a lot
easier to run your business. But you have to
get to that point first. So that's the process.
They come out with a full plan to launch and
get their business going as part of the process
of the program. So they literally have the whole
thing done when they leave at the end of six,
eight weeks, 14 weeks of the program. James,
I wanted to bring you back in and ask you how
scary it was to walk into this program on a college
campus when that really wasn't your background
and walking into this the first time, kind of
what would you tell other veterans who might
have a little bit of fear or trepidation? I would
say that basically I'm not a educational speaking
type individual, but Walking into the program,
the instructors and the other veterans who attended
the class, it basically was kind of a... You
start to build that camaraderie that veterans
in general have, where everybody is more than
willing to go above and beyond whatever it is
that you need, if you need any help at all. The
biggest thing is, I guess everybody... Most people
would have an issue with... Saying I need help
with something because everybody thinks that
you know they can do everything themselves That's
not the case and I found that if I have an issue
with something I can you know ask somebody else
to kind of take it on and help me with it and
then they come back with multiple different scenarios
or different avenues of approach that I didn't
think of myself and it actually becomes a lot
more a lot more conducive to the learning environment
when you know, there's a lot of people that are
willing to help you. James, do you think this
was something that you were willing to sort of
overcome that initial reluctance on because it
was veteran focused as compared to just a business
startup program somewhere else or with a whole
bunch of different folks? I do. I firmly believe
that because it was a veterans program, if it
was anything other than a classroom full of veterans,
more than likely would not have been interested
in it, just because I wouldn't have had the things
in common with the other students that were attending
the class as well. And Dr. Sandra, as you've
approached this, you've got a PhD, you've got
an MBA, most of the folks in this class, I suspect,
don't have college degrees, maybe no community
college sort of thing. How do you approach the
subject matter differently because you're working
with this particular type of cohort? I try and
be very basic, but I also have lots of people
with them, helping them. So a lot of them might
struggle with the technology because we have
software that we use for it. So we have our students
sitting next to them. We have our volunteers
sitting there and helping them. We understand
that it's scary, but I also let them know I started
the business before I had a college degree. I
started my business when I was 22 years old.
I did not have a degree. I did not have a lot
of college under my belt at that point. So I
try to teach it in the same way that I know they
will understand it. I try to get to the basics
of what needs to be done. And truthfully, I think
some of our veterans, just like anybody else,
struggles with technology, as well as I do sometimes.
But we have enough help around to do the things
that they're not comfortable with to help them.
I think it's about that. There are no tests.
There's not a stupid question. Everything has
a meaning and needs to be asked. We're there
to help them. Because everybody who works in
this program at our university cares so deeply
about the contribution veterans is made to our
country. They're very proud to be there and very
willing to do it. Nobody's doing it because they
have to. They do it because they want to. I understand
this is a no -cost program? Yes. It is no cost
to the veterans. We get funding through a grant
for enough to get us by. It's certainly not something
that is, you know, if it were just for grant
money, it's not what drives us. Everybody in
that room is... there because they want to, including
twenty to thirty mentors that come every single
Saturday and spend their afternoons doing nothing
but sitting there helping them. Let me ask, and
before I turn to James, I want to talk about
the business he's working on. Can I hear from
you, Dr. Sander, whether or not this kind of
program is at other universities or other states
are implementing this sort of thing? Yes, but
there are other states that are implementing
things that are a little bit different and some
of them they can travel across to a different
state to get to it. So I would encourage anything
you can find to get this from a university. We
particularly favor our loan just because we have
enough time to let the veterans start and grow
and work on their business over a period of time.
And because they're community -based, all of
our schools within the state are community -based
so that veterans can come back and forth and
get help, which makes a difference. But there
are others. Syracuse has one out of the, that's
where it's housed at, but they're in other states.
So I would certainly say that if you're not in
the state of Florida, that you should look at
veterans entrepreneurship programs. Recommend
not doing it totally online. Do it something
where you actually get to people you can get
help from. Hey James, tell us a little bit about
the business you're planning out. So the business
that we're planning on is actually named The
Frozen Chosen. What we're going to do is we're
customizing individual portioned ice creams with
the use of liquid nitrogen. It's going to be
as simple as you're going to tell us what cup
size you want. You're going to pick a base that's
going to start either chocolate or vanilla. You
choose either what you want mixed in it or choose
toppings. And basically, in under about a minute,
we can have your ice cream made and you can consume
it right then. With the use of liquid nitrogen,
it actually creates a solid ice cream. with much
smaller ice crystals than what the traditional
hand scooped ice cream would be, which actually
provides a higher quality product. We're also
going to source only local fruits and produce.
We're going to get them from a local farm here
in Lee County. Our base is coming from a local
to Florida ice cream base manufacturer. We've
been in business almost 70 years, so we know
that we're going to have a very consistent product.
We're also going to follow along the military
theme and create standard operating procedures.
So that way, every single portion of ice cream
that's made will have a very consistent flavor
and texture to it. It sounds like a great idea.
It's certainly down south where that will be
well received in the warm weather. And you're
going to do this out of a food truck? Is that
the idea or a trailer? What's going to be the
setting for it? So basically what we learned
from the course was brick and mortar store is
going to carry way too much overhead than what
we'd be able to operate at. So doing it out of
a food concession trailer We're going to be able
to have the mobility to move to where our customers
and our target market will be at. That will also
allow us to strategize our specific target events
that we plan on visiting. And then in the future,
we'll also be able to open it up to catering
for either birthdays or private events, weddings,
things of that nature. And we'll be able to come
to you rather than you, the inconvenience, come
to our destination. James, could you talk a little
bit about the impact the mentors had on you during
this program? Absolutely. The mentors, I'll tell
you one thing that the mentors did best for me
is they kind of gave me a snapshot of basically
the market or the idea that you plan to bring
to the market does not care if it's a good idea
or not. They're going to tell you what your product
should look like. and what it should do for them.
No matter how good of an idea that you have,
it's a good idea to you, but it might not be
a good idea to anybody that is willing to spend
money on. So they gave me multiple, I would give
them an example and they would come back with
multiple different questions that I would then
go back out, question my target market and come
back with and the majority of the time they were
right and It's just things that they've been
exposed to in the past that somebody like me
first starting out doesn't have the experience
or the forethought to actually think of things
like that. The mentors themselves have saved
me so much money and I haven't even launched
yet. Well, and I think this is the sort of thing
that we veterans can also appreciate. We all
learn from our chiefs or our sergeants, if you
will, and they've been there, done that. Kid,
I'm trying to save you some grief. And that's
kind of what the mentors are doing too for you,
it sounds like. Yeah, absolutely. And the mentors
are everybody and anybody you could ever think
of, from all different business backgrounds to
you know, just all walks of life. And if you
can't find someone somewhere who's a mentor in
there that you can connect with somewhere, then,
you know, the class has done a very, very good
job of, you know, Dr. Kauanui has done a great
job of saying, you know, I have an individual
that you could probably speak with, and then
she gets right back to us with, you know, that
point of contact or that individual that we should
make contact with and set something up. And she's
been there with me on multiple occasions and
they've turned out to be great individuals that
I would have never met if I didn't take the course.
Dr. Kalanui, as we come to the end of our time
available here, can you maybe give our listeners
a website or a contact approach if they wanted
to keep track of the program or assist in the
program or learn more about it? Yeah, well, I
can give them a couple of different things. The
Veterans Florida is Veterans Florida .org. They
can go to that and they should be able to talk
about it. I'm looking at it right now. It's got
the entrepreneurship program on there. They can
get that information from there. My name is hard
to spell. is our website, and we've got information
on there about the Veterans Florida. But the
best place to, the entrepreneurship program,
the best place is to go to Veterans Florida Entrepreneurship
Program website. The other is, if they don't
have, if they're not in Florida, they should
just go on and search, well, search Veterans
Entrepreneurship, and they will find some programs.
There are several amongst. several states that
they defied it in. Well, I want to thank James
Herdenbrook and Dr. Sandra Kalanui for talking
to us today on Veterans Radio and thank everybody
for listening to Veterans Radio today. I am Jim
Fossone. It's been a pleasure to be your host.
I'm a veterans disability lawyer at Legal Help
for Veterans and you can reach us at 800 -693
-4800 or at the web with legalhelpforveterans
.com. You can follow Veterans Radio on Facebook
and listen to our podcasts and Internet radio
shows at veteransradio .net. And until next time,
you are dismissed.