All across America and around the world, this
is Veterans Radio. And now, your host for today's
program, Dale Throneberry. And good afternoon
and welcome to veterans radio. My name is Dale
Thromery I was a cw2 helicopter pilot in Vietnam
1969 just to establish a little credibility there
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and the number is 734 -822 -1600. That's 734
-822 -1600 or toll free 844 -838 -1600. That's
844 -838 -1600. Well, today is the 75th anniversary
of the Bataan Death March and I don't know how
many of you are familiar with that, but in the
Philippines at the beginning of World War II
the Philippines were attacked the same day as
Pearl Harbor and in fact the only difference
was that the Philippines also had a land attack
going on at the same time and so there was many
things that were happening in there and we're
going to get into the whole story of the Bataan
Death March with our guest John Lucas in just
a moment but I think it's really important for
us to Remember that 75 years ago that this occurred.
In fact, I just got a I got an email just before
I came over to the studio Announcing again that
this is the 75th anniversary on the 9th of April
1942 but that there is a celebration I guess
you could say a commemorative gathering in San
Francisco of the survivors of the baton death
march and we did a program on this Boy, I'm thinking
probably ten years ago. We talked with a gentleman
down in Detroit who was a survivor and he just
curled our hair when he was telling his stories
of this incredible march that these men, Americans
and Filipinos had to go through to get to the
prisoner of war camp that they were being kept
in. As I said, we're going to get into more and
more of the details of this as we go along So
I want you to stay tuned Make sure that you you
know, you turn your radios up for those guys
who need to turn them up If you're listening
on the internet, we'll be back in just a moment
We're going to take a quick break and we'll be
back with our guests for today's program John
Lucas and his book is escape from Davio and also
he's got a documentary film out there called
4 -4 -43 We'll explain that when we get back
you're listening to veterans radio And we're
back on Veterans Radio, and many of you will
recognize that music from our Medal of Honor
series. And I played that because the person
that we're going to be talking about today, after
hearing the story, I think you're going to agree
that he deserves at least one Medal of Honor.
And so we're going to be talking about him with
our guests, but let me kind of read my little
promo here. It says on April 4th, 1943, 10 American
prisoners of war and two Filipino convicts broke
out of the Davao. I know I'm mispronouncing this,
but the Davao. penal colony and escape proof
Imperial Japanese Army prison plantation in the
Philippines called the greatest story of the
war in the Pacific by the United States War Department
in 1944. This astonishing yet true action adventure
tale is told through the eyes of Lieutenant Colonel
William Edwin Dias, one of World War II's most
extraordinary yet little known heroes. Well,
we're going to learn all about him today, and
I think you are going to be amazed at this story.
So what I want to do right now is to welcome
our guest for the week, and that's John Lucas.
He's the producer of a documentary entitled 4
-4 -43, and we'll talk about that in just a moment.
He's also the writer of a book, Escape from Davao,
the forgotten story of the most daring prison
break in the Pacific War. John, welcome to Veterans
Radio. Well, let's let's just jump right into
this whole story. How did you learn about Colonel
Dias? It's you know, it's kind of a long story
and I think you know, I don't want to I don't
want to take up a few of your shows here for
the next couple weeks So I'll try to boil it
down into sort of a you know, a Reader's Digest
condensed version There was an individual that
I had gotten to know and met he was a football
player at Notre Dame and I know you're you're
based up in michigan and there's probably some
rivalry. We've heard of that school. Right, you've
heard of it down in Indiana, small catholic school.
He played in Notre Dame in the 1930s, late 30s,
wasn't a household name, wasn't a famous player,
a Heisman winner. He had a few all -american
votes, but nothing that the people would recognize.
He was from the south side of Chicago, his name
was Mario Tonelli, and he ended up... Pretty
good though. He scored the winning touchdown
in 1937 to beat Southern Cal and went into, he
was going to play professional football, was
drafted by the Chicago Cardinals, but he was
also drafted by Uncle Sam. Okay. And he figured
that he would, you know, at the time there was
a one -year service commitment right before World
War II with, you know, the Selective Service
Act. And he figured, well, I will get in right
now on the ground floor, put my ear in, get back
home. uh... you know before he any problems break
out and can go into coaching well sure enough
he happened to be stationed in the philippines
on december eight nineteen forty one and that
was you know was caught up in the war over there
he was in the coast artillery regiment anti -aircraft
unit and participate in the battle for baton
and ended up finding himself in on the death
march seventy five years ago today and you know
a fascinating story he had a class ring his letter
dame classroom he got when he graduated in the
other japanese are going around stealing all
the personal affects and belongings from you
know from our prisoners and that he had to give
up the class ring but a few minutes later he's
that he's marching you know they're there you
know moving towards the prison camp and then
the japanese guards sort of pulls his his group
on the out of the line and goes through and starts
handing back the loop that uh... the guards have
previously taken Sure enough, he comes to Tenelli,
the Japanese guard, sort of recognizes him. It's
a real awkward, strange situation. And all of
a sudden, this Japanese officer speaks perfect
English, and he says, you know, where's Mario
Tenelli? And he has the ring in his hand. And
so Tenelli goes over, you know, he goes aside
with his Japanese officer, and they have a small
conversation. So now we end up asking, you know,
why are you being so nice to me when these other
guys are being, you know, looted, being killed,
beheaded, tortured on this march? And the Japanese
officer said, I was educated in the States before
the war. He said, I went to school at the University
of Southern California. I was in the stands the
day you scored the winning touchdown to beat
us in 1937. Luckily, it was a small world for
him. Exactly. So, you know, I ended up, I got
my start in sports writing and... and yet this
is a famous sort of campus lore story in nether
dame and i was able to print and get some get
some attention is a cover story in u .s .a. today
about fifteen years ago around sixtieth anniversary
of the of the march and it was a big hit and
anyway long story short i got to know mr cannelly
pretty well and we became good friends and he
told me of the story of these guys who escaped
guys who had been in the death march but they
escaped from a prison camp that he had been in
and he knew colonel dyer see your reference earlier
in a bunch of these other guys in i was just
you know floored that i'd never heard of the
story of of guys who escaped from the philippines
or anywhere in the pacific for that matter in
a large group and as soon as he told me this
story it was one of those things where it was
you know you just just take off running and you
know and next thing i know a book came out and
you know i did the documentary you know i'm working
you know for colonel dais to get the you know
to get the medal of honor so it's kind of strange
how one story leads to another and it's all you
know a snowball effect Well, it is true, John.
We're talking to John Lucas. He's an author,
a producer. He's made a documentary about Colonel
Dias, and we're going to talk about that a little
bit later on. But, so, I had never heard of him,
and I thought, you know, wow, I thought I knew
everything. We've been doing this program for
13 years, and we've heard a lot of stories about
World War II, and even, you know, and the Bataan
Death March, but I'd never heard of this gentleman,
and the story is so terrifying, but but exciting.
It's one of these guys and I'll let you fill
in the blanks. He's from a small town in Texas
and he's always wanted to be a pilot and go from
there. Yeah, Carl Dias is one of the most interesting
figures. I mean, I was in your shoes a few years
ago too. I'd never heard of the guy and I had,
you know, I'd grown up. My father was a history
teacher and, you know, so I had that. sort of
background you know a very inquisitive interested
in history and obviously you know growing up
around world war two veterans korean vietnam
war veterans guys you know you you pick up stories
you pick up information and things and obviously
there's books and movies and and all that but
this this name never never registered before
with me and once i started being a little bit
more i mean i again i was just shocked that you
know this this type of hero had had walked in
our midst you know albeit seventy years ago and
and it was kind of sad that nobody had heard
of him or knew anything about him. So you weren't
the first and you won't be the last, but hopefully
sort of my mission here is to educate more people
about him and get the ball rolling in that regard.
But yeah, he was a unique individual. He started
out just taking some flying lessons as a youngster
in a small town in Texas. Barnstormers were coming
through after World War I, the 1920s. It was
kind of the height of... America's interest in
airplanes at that time, Charles Lindbergh's crossing
the Atlantic really got him started in terms
of wanting a career as a pilot. But back then
there wasn't commercial flying schools, there
wasn't anything like that, so the next step was
if you wanted to fly the fastest planes going,
you joined the United States Army, which had
an air branch. And so he ended up going there.
Before there was the U .S. Air Force Academy,
the elite. flyers were sent to Randolph and Kelly
Field down in San Antonio, which later became
Randolph Air Force Base, which is our joint base,
you know, San Antonio, Randolph. And that's where
he flourished and graduated, went near the top
of his class, and ended up being put in charge
of a fighter squadron that was deployed to the
Philippines just barely a few weeks before the
war started. Well, I was reading the article
that you sent me about, because he's in the Texas
Hall of Fame, I guess, or he received a Texas
Medal of Honor. Correct. Their version of it.
And I just thought it was really interesting
for our listeners to know that this kid, this
guy went to a small high school, Albany High
School. I don't even know where Albany, Texas
is. I've heard of Shackleford County, I think.
Okay. Because I went to flight school out in
Mineral Wells, Texas. Okay. And but anyhow, so
he... He learned how to fly, as you mentioned,
because of the barnstormers going around and
he actually saw Charles Lindbergh when he was
about, looks like he's about 11 or so. Correct.
And I can understand why that would fascinate
him. But it seems like, you know, you mentioned
or the article talks about him once he got his
wings that he really kind of took it to the extreme.
He was the guy in the class who could do the
barrel rolls while he's in a formation. And I
know when I just flew a helicopter, so I can't
imagine that. But when people get their rotor
blades close to me, I always got nervous. And
so, you know, it sounded like he was such a talented
pilot that he was willing to try and do anything.
I think he was testing to see what the plane
would do. Right. I mean, he was he fits the mold
of a daredevil. I obviously made several trips
to his hometown in Albany, which is it's located
about about 20 minutes. 20 -30 minutes from Abilene,
Texas, which is you know a bigger town, but that's
where Dias Air Force Base is located So that
might give you a little bit more of a geographic
frame of reference point But yeah, he was he
was always he would be flying, you know back,
you know And he had a chance to sort of get back
to his his home neck of the woods the old timers
in Albany would tell stories that he would come
down and he'd almost be hitting the telephone
wires he would be would buzz the town and you
know, they all thought it was the you know, the
craziest thing in the world and But his mother
really had no interest in his career choice.
She wasn't very happy. Again, in the article
it talked about him possibly going to law school,
but he decided he didn't want to do that. Right.
He was hitchhiking, summer job. He had graduated
from John Tarleton College in Texas in Stephenville,
which is fairly close to his home and was heading
to Austin. He was going to become a lawyer if
his father was a judge. A great, you know, respectable
career and but he had, I guess, great fortune
or if you know his mother always called it misfortune
of being picked up while he was hitchhiking by
a washout from Randolph and who was just telling
him about how, you know, he I wished he could
have, you know, made it to made it through flight
school and Dias was just was just hooked from
there. I think it had always been, you know,
sort of, you know, seed that had been planted
when he was young and, you know, even though
he was considering going into law and everything,
it was just one of those things that he, you
know, an itch he had to scratch and he was never
gonna never going to do anything else let's just
say that right so he's he he graduated from flight
school and then the first place he sent to is
the philippines as a pilot right and he arrived
he arrives when did he arrive in the philippines
he arrived in the philippines day 1941 and you
know as we know that december 7th december 8th
in the philippines was when the japanese decided
to attack so he had Shown up there he was already
short half of his squadron in terms of personnel
and when he got there the planes were still being
uncrated and none of the guns had been bore sighted.
So he was he was really behind the eight ball
from the day he got there and he was I guess
you could say the tip of the spear because you
know we really had nothing else you know fortifying
some of these distant outposts at the time but
he was he was one of the individuals earmarked
you know to do that and you know BR. Be our military
presence overseas as a deterrent, you know to
the Japanese, right? That sounds like he got
into action right away They they won as soon
as the Japanese attack, you know, there's there's
there's obviously the time difference from the
international dateline You know the attack on
Pearl Harbor, which you know, we just celebrated
the 75th anniversary marked that You know last
December 8th and in this December 7th and then
December 8th and the Philippines they struck
You know probably about eight to nine hours later
And I think that the thing that always sort of
gets me and I remind people is, you know, I mean,
the attack on Pearl Harbor is the one that's
really etched into America's memory. But the
Japanese came back to the Philippines, and they
kept coming back day after day, week after week,
until, you know, until they were able to knock
out pretty much all of our air power, despite
what guys like Dias were trying to do. I mean,
they were completely outnumbered and outgunned
and out -personeled from, you know, from the
very beginning. Well, we should point out to
our audience, we're talking about the Bataan
death march, and how did this occur? And we've
always seen the pictures of Governor or Governor
General MacArthur, you know, leaving and, you
know, I shall return and so on with that story.
But these guys were fighting the Japanese, you
know, in the jungles and everything else. And
in fact, you know, your book talks about this
is that he lost, you know, They ran out of airplanes,
and they ran out of parts, and they ran out of
everything else. So the next thing is that Colonel
Dias, well now he's probably a captain at this
point, or a first lieutenant. Right. And now
they've determined that he's going to be an infantry
guy. Yeah, it wasn't by choice. I didn't think
so. He wasn't happy with it. His famous line
that some of his men had repeated was when he
was out training, you know, they had some of
the army guys were, you know, training in infantry
tactics. And Dias always said, I would rather
be home in Texas staring at the southbound end
of a northbound mule. He wanted to be in a cockpit.
He had no interest in messing around the jungle
and carrying a rifle. But his sort of frontier
West Texas upbringing prepared him better for
that more than probably any of the other his
contemporary squadron leaders or any other pilots
out there. He took to it naturally. I mean, the
guy knew how to shoot. He was a hell of a leader.
And he was able to sort of communicate his skills
as an infantry leader to his men, and they were
among some of the most successful units. Despite
their lack of training, despite their familiarity
with firearms and anything else, they were able
to really turn the situation into gold, which
otherwise had been a miserable failure. Well,
it sounds like they fought quite a number of
battles while they were there, and I'm trying
to read this as we're going along. Where did
that go? I don't know if I can pronounce it.
Aglaloma Bay? Yeah, Aglaloma. Okay, that's right.
Go ahead. What was that one about? Yeah, there
was a, again, the sort of, you know... cram things
into it as few words as possible. The Japanese,
you know, they had attacked in the Philippines
and after, like you said, we ran out of planes,
we started running out of food, medicine, supplies.
The siege started basically right around late
January 1942, so you figure about six weeks after
the initial attacks. And these guys, again, they
had proven themselves capable warriors and had
stopped the Japanese advance into Bataan. So
the Japanese General, General Home, decided to
try, you know, an end run, a flanking maneuver,
and landed some troops, you know, in the rear
echelon area of the Bataan forces. And we didn't
really have enough guys to release from the main
line of resistance, so we sent a bunch of these,
you know, inexperienced, ill -prepared airmen
to sort of root these guys out in the jungle.
And, you know, it took several weeks. It was
called the Battle of the Points, but Dias and
his airmen were successful. sort of pushing the
Japanese to the, you know, to the cliffs, to
the shoreline in Western Bataan. But as the Japanese,
I mean, I think everyone is kind of familiar
with their way of fighting war. You know, in
the latter part of the war, you know, as it became
an island -hopping campaign, and, you know, you're
fighting the Japanese position to position, cave
to cave, bunker to bunker. It was a similar situation
on Bataan, whereas they had landed behind our
lines, and now we had to root them out, but they
weren't going to surrender. No way, no how. So
then it became Dias' problem to get these guys
out of their fortified caves and positions down
by the shoreline. Interestingly enough, despite
the fact that here's a guy who had predominantly
air training and had made his living in a cockpit,
was ordered to lead an amphibious landing in
his own territory, which is technically behind...
Japanese had landed behind their lines to root
these guys out. he went from in a matter of probably
about six weeks being a pilot to an infantryman
to a marine to a marine as well right okay well
the other thing we want to point out is that
during this this this battle that he was involved
in he received his first distinguished service
cross correct yes it was you know when i was
doing the research several years ago before the
book you know it occurred to me and i was Again,
shocked to realize it, but this was America's
first amphibious invasion, first amphibious operation
of World War II. And it was led, you know, not
by, you know, any famous Marines or, you know,
in some of the places where you, you know, you
would think from a frame of reference standpoint,
Guadalcanal or, you know, somewhere else. It
was, no, it was against an armed enemy. It was
in the Philippines, you know, led by a bunch
of airmen and a pilot from Texas. I just think
it's a great story, and I encourage everybody
to check out this story of William Dias Edwin,
because in this article it talks about that he
was a hero, and he made heroes, and he got these
men to follow him. I can't imagine my flight
class being infantry guys on such short notice.
I'm sure that they could do it, but the idea
of going from being a pilot to being in the infantry
suddenly and actually participating in battles
and, you know, doing what you were supposed to
do. I just, I can't help but admire this man
and all the people of that, you know, of his
platoons and companies and stuff. I think it's
a great story. It really is. I mean, you think
about, you know, what our troops had to sort
of endure and, you know, the odds that they were
facing over there. yeah and i would tell people
to it if it's not to take away from the experiences
of the heroism the exploits of of our our troops
in in any other theater of world war two but
uh... you know these guys diet his men they were
doing it on empty stomachs and then they were
all caring between one and four tropical diseases
that was one of the word certain you know it's
a return to hold the armed forces reports after
the war so these guys were sick hungry And, you
know, there was no R &R for them. There were
no USO shows. I mean, the Japanese jammed the
radios. There was very little, you know, you
were really fighting in an information vacuum.
No letters from home. And to keep withstanding.
You still there? I think I just lost John. I
might have. Well, I'll kind of try and finish
this story while we make re -contact with him.
And we're going to be coming up on a break here
at the bottom of the hour. But we were talking
to John Lucas, who is the author of a book about
Lieutenant Colonel William Edwin Dias. And his
book is called Escape from Davao. And he's also
got a documentary about this exciting guy that's
called 4 -4 -43. And we're going to talk about
that. This is the breakout from that prison,
the Japanese prisoner of war camp that he was
in. And you can find more information about this
by just going to Amazon or going, you know, Googling
John's name in there. It's John Lucas, Lucas.
It's L -U -K -A -C -S. L -U -K -A -C -S. He went
to Notre Dame, which is okay. And put these,
he put together this story. And so when we come
back after the news, which I think I've got about
a minute to go before we, we get to that. Is
that we will go back to the story of when the
Colonel broke out of the Japanese prisoner of
war camp. Cause this again, it's a, it's a frightening
story. Okay. I guess we have John back on the
line. I don't know if the Japanese army had jammed
the signals there or what the situation was.
I think so. I was saving this till the second
half, but we know that the American government
tried to jam his story, so we figure maybe they
were doing that again. I got about 30 seconds,
John. We're going to take a break at the news,
and then when we come back, we're going to talk
about him getting back in the air again. Great.
so hold on we'll be right back about about two
minutes you're listening to veterans radio we'll
be right back after the news and we're back on
veterans radio and we're talking with john lucas
who's the producer of a documentary four dash
four dash forty three which will explain in a
little bit and also the author of the book escaped
from it how do i pronounce this is that i will
deval Davao, okay. Davao, the forgotten story
of the most daring prison break of the Pacific
War. And we are talking specifically about William
Edward Dias, who was a captain at the time. Actually,
he ended up being a lieutenant colonel by the
time he was 27. And so he's been fighting against
the Japanese because, you know, they invaded
the Philippines the same time that they dropped
the bombs on Pearl Harbor. And he's gone from
being a pilot to being an infantry guy and now
he gets to go back to be a pilot for a little
while. Yes, that was probably the highlight of
the war for him personally was his return to
flight status. And unfortunately it was one of
those difficult promotions because he was in
charge of what was called the bamboo fleet or
the bamboo air force. It was just a small handful
of planes. It was basically whatever. whatever
could be cobbled together by the mechanics left
on baton, basically a bunch of planes. There
were a small handful of P -40 Warhawks, a few
fighter planes, but most of them were, you know,
unarmed civilian planes that had been commandeered
and cobbled together. And they used those basically,
you know, for reconnaissance missions and some
flights south into the Philippines, to the Visayan
Islands, to Mindanao for, you know, for supply
runs. So there wasn't a lot of actual combat.
Air -to -air, you know combat going on and that
was what you basically diets had trained for
that is You know what he had rehearsed for in
preparation for this, you know for this big show
So it was it was kind of tough in the beginning
But he ended up end up convincing his his superiors
to let him take a crack at the Japanese Yeah,
and it talks about that these these these airplanes
as you mentioned that were kind of You know,
you kind of put together with pieces of other
airplanes really the only thing they could do
is drop bombs and not a whole lot of them. It
seemed like they would take one bomb out, drop
it, and come back and get another one. Yeah,
it was a very frustrating, painstaking method
of waging war, but these guys had really little
choice. One of the individuals who was Dias'
chief engineer at the airfields on Bataan was
a really intelligent, great guy, Leo Bolans,
from a small town in Wyoming, just one of those
mechanical geniuses who could do anything with
a wrench. you know some bailing wire and he actually
built a plane they call it the P -40 something
because there's so many different parts of from
different models from from from B's from C's
from E's that they just call it the P -40 something
and but it was liable and it worked and they
were able to use it you know on strafing attacks
and They also figured out a way to rig these
P -40s up with 500 -pound general -purpose bombs,
which was against the original design specifications.
They were never designed to be a dive bomber
with that type of load. But they know something
they worked on, and they built some contraptions
that would enable them to release these bombs.
And again, Dias had finally convinced his superiors
that they needed to start hitting the Japanese,
both for morale purposes, but... You know, in
terms of strategy, if they were just going to
sit there and take it all the time, it would
be only a matter of time until the, you know,
the eventual end would come. So finally he was
able to launch an attack on a Japanese supply
depot in Subic Bay, which is, you know, a little
bit north of Bataan. And when he did it, it was
again with a small handful of these really beat
up battered warplanes, but he had extraordinary
results. Well, it sounds like, you know, just
a great pilot as well, just kind of to back up
a little bit, let our audience know that he,
in today's world or even in World War II, he
would have been considered an ace in the first
couple of days after the Philippines were invaded,
but they didn't have the nose cameras and so
forth at the time. Exactly, that was the case,
you know, and there wasn't... you'd have that
new the corroborative evidence and i think it
it's one of those deals you know we go back to
the beginning you know of the show and you're
talking about you didn't know anything about
dies and you know i've sort of stumbled upon
his story it's just a shame that you know he
he had all these extraordinary adventures and
exploits but he did it during a part of the war
where we were losing and a part of the world
of what the other record -keeping the documentation
wasn't wasn't up to the standards of later war
and and they're only a small handful of reporters
embedded with these troops there were no news
with there was no newsreel footage you know no
radio reports and the u .s. it really his story
didn't didn't get out there and it was it's a
shame because they're there just really isn't
that paper trail where you have for you know
later in the war where we have you know this
huge news gathering operation with all branches
of the service in the you know the integration
with different media outlets and you know so
there was just Nobody really knew about what
what this guy had done and he had done some of
the most extraordinary things of any of you know
US soldier Airman sailor throughout the the course
of the entire war. Well, I Totally agree with
you on that and you know We want to make sure
that diet his name gets out there and and that
people find out more and more about him Because
as the American kind of went to this Europe first
before the war in the Pacific. And as you mentioned,
all the attention was on Europe and not necessarily
on the Pacific. All right. So eventually we know
that the American troops in the Philippines were
captured. Those that didn't escape weren't evacuated.
And he chose not to be evacuated also. That's
another thing that I think is important to point
out to people. Definitely. I think, Dale, you
look at this and you call somebody a hero. and
i think it's true he does have these these extraordinary
moments where he's you know uh... you know that
i was listening to uh... between the commercial
there that the medal of honor segment that you
had you know and i think he had those moments
he's on the ground leading amphibious landing
he was the first man at the beach bullets flying
everywhere exposing himself to enemy fire trying
to rally his troops here he is you know dive
bombing with a plane that shouldn't be prides
probably would he be airworthy they wouldn't
even as a trainer in the states at this time
and here he is attacking engaging japanese cruisers
you know anti -aircraft fire so he had the sort
of you know for lack of a better word rambo moments
where it's him against the entire imperial japanese
army but then i think the other part of it is
what makes him really special is the fact that
you know while these guys are starving and running
out of medicine on baton there was there was
an incident where he the you know the higher
-ups uh... provided or you know provided additional
rations for the pilots to be able to get these
these guys couldn't couldn't call in another
cockpit they were so second in such bad shape
and but that's true to form you know he he he
understood that there was a lot of resentment
among among enlisted men between the officers
guys we thought you know had more marks and and
things like that and in the before he even any
additional rations or vitamin pills he went and
cleared it you know with his credit gathered
sergeants together so i want to talk to the man
if it's okay with them get back to me in you
know and they were just it you know they understood
that they knew they got it they they all said
they would follow him anywhere you know in the
hell and back whatever we do but you know that
just shows you what the type of guy he was for
other people would you know would take advantage
of those opportunities but yet he he you know
he he felt guilty and then that same same attitude
in the same unselfishness manifested itself a
few weeks later when baton fell and he had been
ordered out the other i mean there was there
was no value for any of us talented squadron
leader, daredevil pilot behind barbed wire. So,
you know, MacArthur wanted all these guys evacuated
so they could, you know, reconstitute their units
and then be flying again against the enemy, you
know, elsewhere. But Dias, he probably in subordination.
He didn't want to follow orders, but he felt
his men were family. And there was no way he
was going to, he was going to evacuate. He wasn't
going to leave them behind. So he sort of went
on his own mission, you know, sending out everybody
but himself. on all these last planes that were
leaving the Philippines before the eventual surrender.
Eventually they did surrender and they were captured
and they were forced to go on this march. How
long was the Bataan Death March? It really depends
on where you surrendered, where you were captured,
where you started. From beginning to end, the
average length of the Death March was about 60
to 70 miles. And again, depending on all those
different circumstances and your geographic position,
the march could have taken anywhere from three
or four days to about two weeks. It depends on
you. Some guys had the great fortune to be picked
up and thrown in the trucks and driven half the
duration of the march. Other guys walked from
beginning to end probably 80, 90 miles. And so,
you know, it really, it's hard to pinpoint the
number of troops that were on it, the distance
and things like that, but there are some sort
of generic averages and values you can put towards
it. Well, we know that there were many, many
atrocities that were committed during that march
against the American and the Philippine. Soldiers
that were forced to do that March and the stories
are just so graphic and just so disturbing When
when you get a chance to read them, I don't necessarily
we don't need to necessarily go into detail about
those right today suffices to say though is that
that he made it and And then he was in the prisoner
of war camp How long was he in the prisoner of
war camp before he attempted his escape? Well,
he was actually in there were three camps that
he had sort of transited through at the conclusion
of the march until he made his eventual escape
and he was so he was he spent exactly three hundred
sixty one days in captivity surrendered on april
ninth seventy five years ago today and then went
to camp o'donnell which was on louis on cabanichuan
prison camp which was a few miles away similarly
located in louis on north of manila and then
was sent to to the daval penal colony which is
located in the island of mindanao which is about
six hundred miles of baton and corrugador in
the manila bay area and it's it's kind of interesting
because you know these guys you talk about the
death march and it's hard to believe you know
it was 75 years ago a lot of these guys thought
that the death march was the worst part of the
whole ordeal they figure okay once we get through
this you know we'll get to a camp you know the
geneva convention will take over the japanese
they have to feed us they have to give us water
medicine that wasn't the case they were they
were in for a shock that the japanese in all
these camps we're going to just let them die
or as in the case of diets he was with a group
of guys who were sent to the southern camp but
was called the alcatraz the philippines is basically
a work plantation the japanese and no attention
just letting these guys sit around and you know
sort of while away the rest of the war they were
going to put them to work as slave laborers and
kills many as they could in the process so you
know whatever whatever they were able to do in
the battlefields of baton they would they would
do it to the prisoner's award is through this
ridiculous, extremely demanding work schedule.
Well, okay, so tell us about his escape. Well,
I think we discussed his personality a few times.
This guy was really, he was one of those never
give up type individuals. And I think he'd always
been thinking about escaping in all the camps
he'd been to, even though the conditions were
just, the right opportunity never really presented
itself. until he got to deval because he realized
that the japanese there they had been so confident
in the fact that they were going to win the war
and plus the fact that this camp was considered
escape proof it had been built by the philippine
government about ten years before the war started
and no civilian prisoner had ever gotten out
of there it was surrounded by a swamp on all
sides there were a ten -foot philippine crocodiles
that roamed in the swamp there was reportedly
headhunters that you know frequent into the area
different tribes and they don't all of these
factors basically the japanese let their guard
down they've they got lax and and i have set
the time he he teamed up here there were two
u .s. army air force guys friends is from his
unit he recruited and then he put in with a group
of marines a triumvirate of marines i would have
been on corrugated or and then uh... they latched
on with them and not an army navy group and there
are a few army coast artillery guys to enlist
the men in the group the rest were officers finally
a Navy commander who was a graduate of the Naval
Academy and he graduated with the highest degree
in mathematics that one of the highest averages
that I think has ever been achieved there and
so he was a real intelligent you know great leader
type and these guys basically put together you
know an impossible mission type plan you know
with all their different distinct traits and
talents all right and so they got out Yes, they
did. They succeeded in getting out, and it was
one of those remarkable deals where, you know,
I don't want to tell everyone the whole story.
Obviously, you want to leave some suspense there.
But they pulled it off, and they had to trudge
through the swamp and go through all the previously
indicated obstacles, and even some that one wouldn't
even think of before they reached safe territory.
But luckily for them, they had run into a group
of Filipino guerrillas, you know, the resistance
that had formed up as soon as the Japanese began
to occupy the Philippines and, you know, through
some unbelievable, you know, an unbelievable
series or string of fortunate events that we,
you know, that they'd even said were, you know,
were without probably divinely inspired, you
know, that it couldn't have happened any other
way than if, you know, how these guys got to
friendly territory, they... They met up with
individuals there who could take care of them,
facilitate their transfer, you know, through
these, you know, jungled areas and all the way
through the hinterlands of this, you know, wild
island of Mindanao. And finally, a few months
later, got in touch with a radio, a shortwave
radio broadcast. They could dial up General MacArthur
in Australia. He sent a submarine to get him.
Easy as that. There you go. Zip zap, he's out.
Right. But being out wasn't, wasn't, it was probably
almost more difficult than being in it. It sounds
like in reading your book and watching your documentary
and all the other articles about dies and his
story of when he got home was not, you know,
he wasn't welcomed with parades and so forth.
Right. Probably the most important you know Climax
to the story or you know a closing impact is
you know when these guys are in this prison camp
And you know in the genesis for the idea like
I said it formed you know before they got to
the penal colony the Alcatraz of the Philippines
You know they wanted to break out and you know
when these guys did form this team to get out
You know it wasn't to save their own skins They
had a plan that they understood that that the
rest of the world the free world Outside of the
others bamboo curtain of the Japanese had drawn
across the Pacific had no clue of what was going
on these captured personnel You know way behind
enemy lines and they figure if they would they
could get out it was their mission to break the
news Of the world to the to the above the baton
death march into these atrocities that the Japanese
were committing against American as well as you
know Allied prisoners of war throughout the Far
East and so they thought that that was their
that was their number one self -assigned mission
was to get out and break this news to have these
revelations fire up the american people and uh...
you know so they they got home you need to think
while these guys would be big heroes and you
know ticker tape parades and flash bulbs and
you know radio shows but you know the u .s. government
had a different idea of of of you know this story
and what it should come out and even how it should
come out And, you know, it was completely opposite
of, you know, of what Dias and the others thought.
So, you know, it's really a tragic concluding
aspect of the story that, you know, that they
weren't appreciated in many respects that, you
know, the government muzzled them and threatened
these guys. You know, so it was, in many ways,
it was a second imprisonment. You think that
once you set foot on, you know, the continental
United States that you had made it and that the
mission was accomplished, but that was completely
opposite. Well, you mentioned in your documentary
and also in some of the other articles is that
Dias, you know, probably understandably had a
little bit of post -traumatic stress going on.
Definitely. And when the government tried to
shut him down, I think his independent streak
rose up again. And didn't he, again, we don't
have to give the whole story away. It's just
such a great story. But he was trying to get
this story out. not using the normal channels,
let's put it that way. Correct. And he was finally
able to get somebody to interview him. He was
fortunate in that his wife, her father, her family
owned was, they were sort of, you know, I'm going
to say medium moguls, but they own newspapers
and radio stations in the Midwest and specifically
in Champaign, Illinois, where she was from. And
they obviously had connections, you know, in
the, you know, through different media markets.
and uh... his wife remembered that you know the
family connections with the chicago tribune which
at the time was one of the the biggest newspapers
in terms of circulation reach but all the associate
papers owned throughout north america and figured
this would be the way to get the story out to
the largest possible audience into achieve the
desired effect of with diets and his his comrades
that wanted to have wanted to do and uh... it
was very fortunate they had those contacts and
were able to sort of get the process started,
but again, the US government, the European war
was most important. We were gearing up for the
D -Day invasion only a few months later. And
it was a very tenuous arrangement with Great
Britain, France, and all these other governments
in exile. And I think that they successfully
or probably successfully put two and two together
that, boy, the American people found out about
what the Japanese were doing to our troops. And,
you know, what a horrible, awful theater of war
this was, that there would be such a huge clamor
to junk, you know, the whole Allied apple carton
and, you know, get rid of the Europe first strategy
and throw the bulk of our resources towards the
defeat of Japan. And I think they correctly assumed
that that would be the case. So, in other words,
this story had to be suppressed at all costs
because it could sincerely and definitely change
the course of the war. Well, I think they finally
ended up... You know, it looks like they ended
up using it as a, you know, as a PR piece to
generate, you know, interest in the war and probably
increase war bonds and how are we going to pay
for this? We're going to do this to front war.
We've got to do this. And I'm reading the cover.
I'm looking at the cover of the Chicago Sunday
Tribune, it says, and it says, Diasone's story
tells... Jap torture on Bataan Death March. And
part of it is that he also mentions that some
of the headlines, the story trumpeted by the
War Department is the greatest story of the war
in the Pacific, the biggest bombshell since Pearl
Harbor, probably the most important news break
of the war. And I think I have to agree with
that. I think we all have these... We all had
these preconceptions of what we learned in our
history classes and probably more about what
we saw in the movies. Right. You know, growing
up during that time, after that time period.
I'm not quite that old, but I just can't believe
that they would stifle this whole thing. I mean,
this guy was a genuine, you know, we always talk
about on our program about these ordinary people
that do extraordinary things. Right. And this
is what he did. He was just this ordinary guy
from Texas that And every time something needed
to be done, he did it. And it's just unfortunate
that he never really got to bathe in that glory
of what he had done and what he had accomplished.
And I think I want to make sure that we tell
our audience where they can get your books and
so forth, and especially where they can check
out that documentary. So you want to give us
a little information there? Sure, you know, there's
actually two different websites, two different
locations, 4 -4 -43 .com. That's the name of
the documentary. You can just type that into
your browser. And the two things there, you can
watch a trailer of the film. I also would like
to request, if you've been, you know, significantly
moved by this interview and this discussion,
there is a petition that we're trying to, you
know, make the government reconsider Colonel
Dias' candidacy for the Medal of Honor. He could
have received it as many as four times. He's
officially nominated once, but no go on any of
those, and we're trying to sort of start up.
It's a grassroots movement of people to, you
know, to support his candidacy. We're going to
be getting started with that through different
politicians in Texas. People are sort of taking
up this fight, and I'm happy we have a lot of
you know, sort of famous individuals, Secretary
of Defense and General James Mattis was probably
one of the most, you know, enthusiastic backers
of Colonel Dias. I had a chance to talk to him
and share Dias' story with him in the documentary.
He loved it, called me at home and told me, you
know, these are the kind of guys we need to honor
and, you know, and really got behind us there.
But as you know, the way an army fights and the
way an army wins, it's not always the guys with
the four stars on their shoulders like Mattis.
We need the... you know, the grunts and the other
guys in the trenches here to sign this petition
and help us out. So I really would make, you
know, people could sign that, but there's also
an opportunity you can purchase the film DVDs,
you know, through that website there. And, you
know, all the proceeds go towards this mission
and, you know, to sort of help our lobbying efforts
and, you know, to get him this award that he
genuinely deserves. Well, I totally agree with
you and, you know, that just The things that
he did is, you know, he should be a part of our
Medal of Honor series that we have out there,
and we're going to encourage everybody we know
to support and sign that petition. And we know
we have a Medal of Honor recipient in our local
area from the Vietnam era. It took almost 40
years for him to get upgraded to the Medal of
Honor. So we know how difficult it can be. Wow.
And also, what about the book? So, where do we
get the book? The book is pretty much available,
you know, to use a war film, Casablanca, all
the usual suspects. You can go online to Amazon,
places like that, Barnes and Noble bookstores.
Or folks, if they would like a specially inscribed
signed copy, they can log on to my website, which
is my name, John, J -O -H -N -D, as in Douglas.
I can get a signed copy which are great gifts
as well as the DVD for Father's Day and graduations
and things like that coming up. But again, it's
not just all about making money, it's trying
to get Colonel Dias' story out and that way more
people... sort of know about this guy that no
one's heard of, you know, this great untold story
and great untold hero. Absolutely, John. I hear
the orchestra coming up under me. So I've got
to thank you very much for being on Veterans
Radio, and we will be in touch with you to help
promote Kadaius more. Thank you very much. It
was great to be on. I really appreciate it, and
I want to thank you and your audience as well.
Thank you. Thank you. And you are dismissed.