WEBVTT 00:00:05.129 --> 00:00:09.050 All across America and around the world, this 00:00:09.050 --> 00:00:16.030 is Veterans Radio. This is Veterans Radio. And 00:00:16.030 --> 00:00:20.070 now, your host for today's program, Dale Throneberry. 00:00:25.929 --> 00:00:28.890 And good afternoon, America. My name is Dale 00:00:28.890 --> 00:00:31.030 Throneberry and I am your host today on Veterans 00:00:31.030 --> 00:00:33.909 Radio and it is our privilege to be... in your 00:00:33.909 --> 00:00:35.969 living room, or at least in your ears, wherever 00:00:35.969 --> 00:00:39.549 they may be, to talk about veterans and veterans' 00:00:39.729 --> 00:00:42.429 stories and veterans' affairs and veterans' issues 00:00:42.429 --> 00:00:45.490 that are going on around the world. And we want 00:00:45.490 --> 00:00:48.289 you to participate in the conversation today, 00:00:48.289 --> 00:00:52.109 so feel free to give us a call here at WAAM at 00:00:52.109 --> 00:00:55.909 734 -822 -1600. We're going to be talking about 00:00:55.909 --> 00:00:58.969 the Veterans History Project, and many of you 00:00:58.969 --> 00:01:00.869 are familiar with that, and I'm very excited 00:01:00.869 --> 00:01:03.340 to talk to our guest. With that, Ed Runkle, in 00:01:03.340 --> 00:01:08.480 just a moment, and to let you know how you can 00:01:08.480 --> 00:01:12.260 go about recording your veteran stories or your 00:01:12.260 --> 00:01:14.959 relatives' veteran stories and store them in 00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:16.920 the Library of Congress, which is really kind 00:01:16.920 --> 00:01:20.359 of cool when you think about it. I did this a 00:01:20.359 --> 00:01:23.420 number of years ago, and I can just go into the 00:01:23.420 --> 00:01:25.299 Library of Congress, and my grandson did this. 00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:28.060 typed in grandpa's name and then came up and 00:01:28.060 --> 00:01:29.819 interviewed and talked all about what I was doing 00:01:29.819 --> 00:01:32.120 when I was in the service. So this is a great 00:01:32.120 --> 00:01:33.900 opportunity for many of you out there. We're 00:01:33.900 --> 00:01:35.680 going to be talking about how you can record 00:01:35.680 --> 00:01:40.500 stories of your relatives and can upload them 00:01:40.500 --> 00:01:42.359 to the Library of Congress. And I think it's 00:01:42.359 --> 00:01:45.719 a pretty neat experiment or program that they 00:01:45.719 --> 00:01:48.079 have out there. The second half of the program 00:01:48.079 --> 00:01:49.819 we're going to be talking about the last days 00:01:49.819 --> 00:01:52.079 in Vietnam. There's a documentary that is going 00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:56.519 to be shown on PBS this coming Tuesday evening. 00:01:56.799 --> 00:02:00.019 Check your local PBS station for the time exactly. 00:02:00.180 --> 00:02:03.299 It's 9 o 'clock Eastern and it's a documentary 00:02:03.299 --> 00:02:08.819 about when they had to evacuate Vietnam and I'm 00:02:08.819 --> 00:02:11.479 really excited to talk to our guest Colonel Stuart 00:02:11.479 --> 00:02:14.840 Harrington who was there at the time and is an 00:02:14.840 --> 00:02:16.900 active participant in the documentary which by 00:02:16.900 --> 00:02:20.500 the way was directed and produced by Rory Kennedy, 00:02:20.659 --> 00:02:25.879 Bobby Kennedy's daughter. It's a very powerful 00:02:25.879 --> 00:02:28.060 documentary. I had the privilege of watching 00:02:28.060 --> 00:02:30.520 it the other night. You can download it onto 00:02:30.520 --> 00:02:32.219 your computer and we'll talk more about different 00:02:32.219 --> 00:02:34.419 ways that you can get a hold of it. But for those 00:02:34.419 --> 00:02:36.460 of you that were in Vietnam, I think it's really 00:02:36.460 --> 00:02:39.580 important that you hear this story. It's a story 00:02:39.580 --> 00:02:43.979 of honor. It's a story of gumption. There are 00:02:43.979 --> 00:02:47.719 heroics going on there. There are promises kept, 00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:51.780 some promises not kept. It's an emotional roller 00:02:51.780 --> 00:02:54.580 coaster and I'm anxious to talk to Colonel Harrington 00:02:54.580 --> 00:02:56.759 when we get to that at the bottom of the hour. 00:02:58.039 --> 00:03:02.199 But right now, joining us on Veterans Radio is 00:03:02.199 --> 00:03:04.979 Ed Ruckel. And Ed, welcome to Veterans Radio. 00:03:05.590 --> 00:03:08.150 Well, thank you very much, Dale, and a pleasure 00:03:08.150 --> 00:03:10.050 to be with you today. I've been looking forward 00:03:10.050 --> 00:03:12.490 to the conversation. I know you have. If I'm 00:03:12.490 --> 00:03:14.129 mispronouncing your name, I wanted to make sure 00:03:14.129 --> 00:03:16.229 I had it right. It's Ruckel, right? No, Ed Ruckel's 00:03:16.229 --> 00:03:19.330 just fine. Okay, Ed Ruckel is an Air Force veteran. 00:03:20.270 --> 00:03:23.509 Were you career Air Force? Absolutely. Actually, 00:03:23.509 --> 00:03:26.189 I'm a Canadian boy that served with the United 00:03:26.189 --> 00:03:29.349 States Air Force for over 20, from 61 through 00:03:29.349 --> 00:03:32.650 81, and then returned back to Canada here in 00:03:32.650 --> 00:03:37.550 Windsor in 1988. So, I went through flight school 00:03:37.550 --> 00:03:41.349 with a number of guys from Canada and I thought 00:03:41.349 --> 00:03:44.050 that was always a fascinating story. What are 00:03:44.050 --> 00:03:46.310 you coming over here for? You could avoid this 00:03:46.310 --> 00:03:48.849 whole thing. It's just kind of stay home considering 00:03:48.849 --> 00:03:50.270 that there were people from our country that 00:03:50.270 --> 00:03:52.090 were going there to get away from this whole 00:03:52.090 --> 00:03:56.590 war thing. So, did you ever end up serving overseas? 00:03:57.969 --> 00:04:00.210 Actually, I went all over the world, but I never 00:04:00.210 --> 00:04:02.830 went to Vietnam. And part of that was because 00:04:02.830 --> 00:04:06.819 I was Canadian. didn't get the various clearances 00:04:06.819 --> 00:04:09.639 apparently, whatever. They sent me to Osan, Korea 00:04:09.639 --> 00:04:13.439 in 1970, so I lucked out. I didn't have to go 00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:17.920 to Vietnam, but many Canadians did. They did, 00:04:17.980 --> 00:04:20.899 they did. Sometimes I wonder if it's lucking 00:04:20.899 --> 00:04:23.860 out or not, but it was an experience, let's put 00:04:23.860 --> 00:04:26.259 it that way. Actually one that I don't think 00:04:26.259 --> 00:04:28.500 I would want, I wouldn't want to repeat it, but 00:04:28.500 --> 00:04:31.899 I'm grateful that I went through it. Well, I 00:04:31.899 --> 00:04:35.579 think about 33 ,000, if my number served me correctly, 00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:38.660 did serve from Canada and the other nations, 00:04:39.060 --> 00:04:42.360 Australia and so on, in the early days of NAMM. 00:04:42.779 --> 00:04:45.420 And then, of course, they pulled back and the 00:04:45.420 --> 00:04:47.860 Americans took it over and whatever happened 00:04:47.860 --> 00:04:49.980 there, it just happened. Well, that's true. I 00:04:49.980 --> 00:04:54.980 was lucky. I didn't have to go. We worked with 00:04:54.980 --> 00:04:58.079 the Australians quite a bit in the area of operation 00:04:58.079 --> 00:05:01.199 that I was in and that was quite the adventure 00:05:01.199 --> 00:05:03.060 for me meeting up with some Australians. They 00:05:03.060 --> 00:05:07.240 do some serious beer drinking. I guess I couldn't 00:05:07.240 --> 00:05:09.019 even clean that up. I couldn't clean that up 00:05:09.019 --> 00:05:14.139 anyway. That they do. And they would challenge 00:05:14.139 --> 00:05:18.740 us to participate with them and it was not a 00:05:18.740 --> 00:05:22.079 contest at all. They just... But anyway. All 00:05:22.079 --> 00:05:24.399 right, Ed, I'm really excited to talk to you 00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:26.459 today about this veterans history project and 00:05:26.459 --> 00:05:30.920 I was reading something off of the other website 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:33.040 that you gave me that's on the flyer and up on 00:05:33.040 --> 00:05:36.600 our website. It's about the veterans tributes 00:05:36.600 --> 00:05:39.279 and these numbers are fascinating to me and I 00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:41.060 think that this is going to be imperative and 00:05:41.060 --> 00:05:44.759 kind of accelerate the need to record these stories 00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:50.629 is that your mission statement for the A veteran's 00:05:50.629 --> 00:05:54.050 tribute says, according to a 2013 census, there 00:05:54.050 --> 00:05:57.889 are approximately 19 .6 million military veterans 00:05:57.889 --> 00:06:01.050 in the United States. When we started this program 00:06:01.050 --> 00:06:07.470 in 2003, there were almost 25 million. That's 00:06:07.470 --> 00:06:10.370 6 million veterans who have passed away in the 00:06:10.370 --> 00:06:14.860 last 10 years. So we've got a little urgency 00:06:14.860 --> 00:06:19.180 here with our story then. So tell me all about 00:06:19.180 --> 00:06:22.220 this Veterans History Project. Well, the Veterans 00:06:22.220 --> 00:06:25.420 History, it's kind of ironic because I here about 00:06:25.420 --> 00:06:28.160 a year and a half ago, I went over to the VA 00:06:28.160 --> 00:06:31.160 just to get a VA card. I didn't plan on doing 00:06:31.160 --> 00:06:34.060 Veterans History. I really didn't know much about 00:06:34.060 --> 00:06:36.000 it at all and that was a year and a half ago. 00:06:36.579 --> 00:06:39.019 Went over, got my VA card and before I knew it, 00:06:39.019 --> 00:06:43.100 I was a volunteer. And I was asked to capture 00:06:43.100 --> 00:06:45.579 veteran stories and send them off to the Library 00:06:45.579 --> 00:06:47.860 of Congress, the Veterans History Project there. 00:06:48.420 --> 00:06:50.720 And I thought, well, that seems like a kind of 00:06:50.720 --> 00:06:52.939 a cool idea. I was looking for something to do, 00:06:53.199 --> 00:06:56.660 eh? So I started it and got it going. And this 00:06:56.660 --> 00:07:00.060 was at the John Dingell VA Center down on John 00:07:00.060 --> 00:07:03.220 R. in Detroit. And that's only about 15 minutes 00:07:03.220 --> 00:07:05.899 for me once I cross the border, right? And then 00:07:05.899 --> 00:07:08.180 it went over there and started to work with it. 00:07:08.339 --> 00:07:10.740 And I was actually started with the veterans 00:07:10.740 --> 00:07:13.839 on the sixth floor of the John Dingle VA. And 00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:17.980 that's the long term World War II guys. And I 00:07:17.980 --> 00:07:21.339 had the opportunity to meet many of them. And 00:07:21.339 --> 00:07:25.000 one in particular was Louis Calvin Huff. Buck 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:29.319 was his name. He was 96 years old. actually walked 00:07:29.319 --> 00:07:32.939 with George Patton back in the 30s and was also 00:07:32.939 --> 00:07:36.980 one of the G1 staff to the 92nd Infantry, the 00:07:36.980 --> 00:07:40.040 Black Buffalo Soldiers. So he had a tremendous 00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:42.399 amount of history and he was my first story to 00:07:42.399 --> 00:07:44.600 capture and send off to the Library of Congress. 00:07:45.519 --> 00:07:48.459 And it just went on from there. And then I realized 00:07:48.459 --> 00:07:52.300 that I was missing about 96 % of my veterans. 00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:55.199 because I was up on the third floor trying to 00:07:55.199 --> 00:07:58.040 capture them at the VA Medical Center there in 00:07:58.040 --> 00:08:01.819 their media room and that took me off of the 00:08:01.819 --> 00:08:04.439 floor and I was missing just a wealth of history 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:07.459 that was walking past me down on the main floor 00:08:07.459 --> 00:08:10.800 of the VA. About 600 veterans a day go through 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:15.000 that VA and in one shape form or another and 00:08:15.000 --> 00:08:18.329 that covers all branches of the service and I've 00:08:18.329 --> 00:08:21.930 just met a tremendous amount of veterans lately 00:08:21.930 --> 00:08:24.410 and that's where the veterans tributes came in. 00:08:25.129 --> 00:08:27.589 I thought I could catch short stories from them 00:08:27.589 --> 00:08:31.449 on the fly, if you will. So that's basically 00:08:31.449 --> 00:08:34.090 what began and it took off. And today I have 00:08:34.090 --> 00:08:37.629 about 91 veterans who have signed up to tell 00:08:37.629 --> 00:08:41.649 either a long or an extended story. And extended 00:08:41.649 --> 00:08:45.590 stories are stories that actually meet the 30 00:08:45.590 --> 00:08:48.909 -minute rule set by the Library of Congress. 00:08:49.450 --> 00:08:51.809 If it's less than 30, they usually don't take 00:08:51.809 --> 00:08:54.909 it, okay? And a lot of veterans don't believe 00:08:54.909 --> 00:08:57.690 they can tell a story and go that long, but they 00:08:57.690 --> 00:09:03.470 can. And I didn't look at the criteria. Veterans 00:09:03.470 --> 00:09:07.950 had to be in a war or a combat zone, because 00:09:07.950 --> 00:09:10.330 many of us, I didn't serve in the combat zone. 00:09:10.370 --> 00:09:12.470 I was in over 20 years and didn't serve in the 00:09:12.470 --> 00:09:15.419 combat zone. But it doesn't mean that we, you 00:09:15.419 --> 00:09:18.539 know, weren't going to go into a combat zone. 00:09:19.019 --> 00:09:21.340 I think that's the risk and people have to understand. 00:09:21.620 --> 00:09:23.200 So anyway, I started to collect stories from 00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:27.519 any veteran that had a pulse in 98 .6 and it 00:09:27.519 --> 00:09:29.460 started to work pretty good. And today we've 00:09:29.460 --> 00:09:32.799 got close to almost a hundred. And I think 21 00:09:32.799 --> 00:09:34.799 had been sent off to the Library of Congress 00:09:34.799 --> 00:09:37.440 and another seven or eight in the next week or 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:39.460 two. That's going to be going. We're going to 00:09:39.460 --> 00:09:42.360 take a quick little break here, Ed. And when 00:09:42.360 --> 00:09:45.700 we come back, I want to kind of go through a 00:09:45.700 --> 00:09:49.299 pretend interview. All right. And just to let 00:09:49.299 --> 00:09:51.679 our audience know that what the questions are 00:09:51.679 --> 00:09:54.659 that you ask and all the other people that ask 00:09:54.659 --> 00:09:56.759 that are participating in the Veterans History 00:09:56.759 --> 00:09:59.899 Project as the recorders. So we'll be right back 00:09:59.899 --> 00:10:03.700 with Ed Runkle here on Veterans Radio to be talking 00:10:03.700 --> 00:10:06.889 about the Veterans History Project. So stay tuned. 00:10:07.029 --> 00:10:10.029 We'll be right back. And we're back on Veterans 00:10:10.029 --> 00:10:11.850 Radio, and that's the Universal Soldier. And 00:10:11.850 --> 00:10:13.669 the reason that I picked that particular tune 00:10:13.669 --> 00:10:16.649 for a bump music today is because we are talking 00:10:16.649 --> 00:10:18.950 about the Veterans History Project with Ed Ruckel, 00:10:18.990 --> 00:10:21.549 who is a United States Air Force retired after 00:10:21.549 --> 00:10:24.769 20 years. And just before we took the break, 00:10:24.769 --> 00:10:26.470 Ed mentioned something, oh, that he was in the 00:10:26.470 --> 00:10:28.149 service for 20 years, but he didn't get into 00:10:28.149 --> 00:10:33.190 combat. And that doesn't matter to me. It never 00:10:33.190 --> 00:10:35.049 matters to us here on Veterans Radio because 00:10:35.419 --> 00:10:39.940 All of us signed up, some voluntarily, some not 00:10:39.940 --> 00:10:43.059 necessarily quite so voluntarily. But we signed 00:10:43.059 --> 00:10:45.440 up to do our duty and we did it. Wherever we 00:10:45.440 --> 00:10:48.159 were assigned, that's where we went. And we were 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:50.700 always on edge that we might be sent somewhere 00:10:50.700 --> 00:10:54.500 else. And so you just never know. And even though 00:10:54.500 --> 00:10:56.379 you may not have been in combat, there are so 00:10:56.379 --> 00:10:59.139 many great stories out there, Ed, from people 00:10:59.139 --> 00:11:01.379 that I have met doing this program for the last 00:11:01.379 --> 00:11:05.779 11 years that are just as powerful. as any story 00:11:05.779 --> 00:11:08.320 that I've heard from somebody who's been, you 00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:12.799 know, been getting shot at. Correct. Yeah, you're 00:11:12.799 --> 00:11:15.159 absolutely right. And many veterans actually 00:11:15.159 --> 00:11:17.720 don't think they have a story to tell because 00:11:17.720 --> 00:11:21.240 they haven't been in combat. That is, you said 00:11:21.240 --> 00:11:24.320 so well there is when you work, that thing that 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:27.120 makes the military so special is that when you 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:31.279 go to work in the morning as a soldier, as an 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:33.820 airman or whatever, You don't know if you're 00:11:33.820 --> 00:11:37.000 coming back home. You could very well be deployed 00:11:37.000 --> 00:11:39.480 and I was in SAC for three years and you could 00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:42.559 very well not get home for months. So those are 00:11:42.559 --> 00:11:44.600 the prices that are paid and those are the stories 00:11:44.600 --> 00:11:47.860 we try to capture. Every debt has a story and 00:11:47.860 --> 00:11:50.759 once they get them talking there's something 00:11:50.759 --> 00:11:53.679 else. That is true and I think that you know 00:11:53.679 --> 00:11:57.460 probably all of us have stories of you know even 00:11:57.460 --> 00:12:00.019 if just basic training stories. I mean it's such 00:12:00.019 --> 00:12:04.370 a culture shock. for probably you know 95 % of 00:12:04.370 --> 00:12:07.049 the of the men and especially the women who go 00:12:07.049 --> 00:12:11.649 through basic training that There has to be a 00:12:11.649 --> 00:12:14.210 story there because you are you are meeting people 00:12:14.210 --> 00:12:18.429 that you would never meet in your everyday life 00:12:18.429 --> 00:12:21.529 Correct think about you know just think about 00:12:21.529 --> 00:12:23.789 you know where these men and women were from 00:12:23.789 --> 00:12:26.870 and in my experience I went I I'm from New Jersey 00:12:26.870 --> 00:12:29.009 originally and I ended up going to basic training 00:12:29.009 --> 00:12:33.100 in Fort Polk, Louisiana I had never been to Louisiana, 00:12:33.259 --> 00:12:34.980 and no offense to anybody who's listening from 00:12:34.980 --> 00:12:38.559 Louisiana, but you guys talk funny. And I couldn't 00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:41.580 understand anything that anybody was saying. 00:12:41.820 --> 00:12:44.419 And the drill sergeant, he had something against 00:12:44.419 --> 00:12:47.279 my family. I'm not sure where they, you know, 00:12:47.799 --> 00:12:50.600 the things that he would say to us on a regular 00:12:50.600 --> 00:12:53.700 basis. But some of those men that I met there 00:12:53.700 --> 00:12:57.720 turned out to be lifelong friends. Yeah, you're 00:12:57.720 --> 00:13:01.059 absolutely right. You make a good point there, 00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:04.039 and I'm currently working with the Mumford Point 00:13:04.039 --> 00:13:08.200 Marines. They go back into World War II, and 00:13:08.200 --> 00:13:11.679 I'm currently gathering a story in the cloud 00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:14.240 -based application that I have, and I'm talking 00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:18.360 with a 93 -year -old Mumford Point Marine, African 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:21.200 -American gentleman, who is the oldest living 00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:24.820 Mumford Point Marine, period. What is a Mumford 00:13:24.820 --> 00:13:29.179 Point Marine? Mumford Point Marines, this is 00:13:29.179 --> 00:13:35.399 the story, in 1942, World War II, Roosevelt mandated 00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:38.940 that all the military would integrate African 00:13:38.940 --> 00:13:41.980 Americans into the Corps and the other branch 00:13:41.980 --> 00:13:45.279 services as well. The Corps didn't want them. 00:13:45.549 --> 00:13:48.049 So when they went to Cap Lejeune to get their 00:13:48.049 --> 00:13:50.750 basic training, they didn't train with the white 00:13:50.750 --> 00:13:53.490 soldiers at Cap Lejeune. They stuck them out 00:13:53.490 --> 00:13:56.690 at Mumford Point, out near the swap lands. And 00:13:56.690 --> 00:13:58.649 that's where they trained them as a separate, 00:13:58.950 --> 00:14:02.049 totally separate unit. They were still Marines, 00:14:02.370 --> 00:14:06.409 but they weren't integrated as such. And that's 00:14:06.409 --> 00:14:08.690 the Mumford Point Marines. Well, I know they're 00:14:08.690 --> 00:14:11.210 a story in itself. Oh, absolutely. I know they're 00:14:11.210 --> 00:14:13.769 great stories because we had we have done some 00:14:13.769 --> 00:14:20.100 stories with the Tuskegee Airmen. These were 00:14:20.100 --> 00:14:22.360 the other buddies, yep. Right, and there are 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:25.039 so many Tuskegee Airmen that live in the Detroit 00:14:25.039 --> 00:14:28.179 area that none of us were really aware of it 00:14:28.179 --> 00:14:33.840 until we came across Colonel Armstrong, I think 00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:37.500 his name is, and he was the one that we've had 00:14:37.500 --> 00:14:40.679 on the program a couple of times and just fascinating 00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:45.269 stories. So let me get into this little interview 00:14:45.269 --> 00:14:51.490 process. So let's suppose that my uncle Joe was 00:14:51.490 --> 00:14:55.190 in Korea, and I want to interview him. I've heard 00:14:55.190 --> 00:14:56.929 about the Veterans History Project. How do I 00:14:56.929 --> 00:14:59.570 go about doing this? Well, the first thing you've 00:14:59.570 --> 00:15:02.669 got to do, and this is how I do it now, and there's 00:15:02.669 --> 00:15:05.370 a number of different tactics that you can use, 00:15:05.789 --> 00:15:08.590 but the Library of Congress, the Veterans History 00:15:08.590 --> 00:15:11.809 Project, has what they call a field kit. And 00:15:11.809 --> 00:15:17.529 if you go to www .libraryofcongress .com, you 00:15:17.529 --> 00:15:22.169 can download that field kit. And that walks an 00:15:22.169 --> 00:15:24.690 interviewer, which I am, with the VA system, 00:15:24.970 --> 00:15:28.590 that has the questions and gives you an idea, 00:15:28.929 --> 00:15:32.149 a guide, if you will, of what to do and when 00:15:32.149 --> 00:15:35.509 to do it. And really the interview process covers 00:15:35.509 --> 00:15:39.299 five or six categories of questions. which are 00:15:39.299 --> 00:15:41.519 usually asked by an interviewer. And it starts 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:44.200 with just a brief introduction, right? And it 00:15:44.200 --> 00:15:46.600 gets an idea of where he was born and where the 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:49.299 veteran lived and what year he was born, his 00:15:49.299 --> 00:15:51.500 mother, his father, brothers and sisters, things 00:15:51.500 --> 00:15:53.740 like that, where he went to school. And then 00:15:53.740 --> 00:15:56.179 it goes on up into his early days of the military. 00:15:56.919 --> 00:15:59.580 The first thing that has to be done is we have 00:15:59.580 --> 00:16:03.320 to get a signed signature of release forms signed 00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:06.440 by the veteran if he's still alive. And if not, 00:16:06.750 --> 00:16:11.250 by his executor or the son or daughter, right, 00:16:11.250 --> 00:16:15.049 who has or is empowered to sign on his behalf. 00:16:15.889 --> 00:16:18.830 And once that's signed, the interviewer takes 00:16:18.830 --> 00:16:21.070 it over and they start working with the veteran 00:16:21.070 --> 00:16:23.470 and or his son or daughter collecting things 00:16:23.470 --> 00:16:27.169 like that, memorabilia, tapes, whatever they 00:16:27.169 --> 00:16:29.789 may have and starts to catalog and correlate 00:16:29.789 --> 00:16:32.750 and put them all together on behalf of the veteran. 00:16:33.350 --> 00:16:36.330 The idea is to catch them soon. Well, they're 00:16:36.330 --> 00:16:39.429 still alive. I lost Buck Huff on the 31st of 00:16:39.429 --> 00:16:42.909 December this last year. And, you know, these 00:16:42.909 --> 00:16:46.269 veterans, we lose a World War II veteran every 00:16:46.269 --> 00:16:51.909 three minutes. So there's not many left. No, 00:16:52.049 --> 00:16:55.070 we've got to get them, and the Korean veterans 00:16:55.070 --> 00:16:57.289 are following quickly behind, and even the Vietnam 00:16:57.289 --> 00:16:58.350 veterans are starting to fall by the wayside. 00:16:58.429 --> 00:17:00.450 Well, you've got to figure the average Vietnam 00:17:00.450 --> 00:17:03.330 guy, the 50th anniversary of the Vietnam War, 00:17:03.429 --> 00:17:08.690 the average Vietnam guy is 69. Yes, we are. Yeah, 00:17:09.130 --> 00:17:11.750 we are, that's for sure, yeah. Hard to believe, 00:17:11.829 --> 00:17:14.210 right? Where did that time go? I don't know. 00:17:15.029 --> 00:17:17.579 I always tell everybody, you know, that I'm I've 00:17:17.579 --> 00:17:20.339 got a 20 -year -old mind stuck in a 69 -year 00:17:20.339 --> 00:17:25.819 -old body. And it's difficult. But I was going 00:17:25.819 --> 00:17:29.480 to say, you've got a, I'm looking at the website 00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:32.799 now for the kit. And anybody can do this, folks. 00:17:33.799 --> 00:17:36.660 Just go to, actually just type in and Google 00:17:36.660 --> 00:17:39.220 Veterans History Project and it will take you 00:17:39.220 --> 00:17:42.759 right to all of these forms that you will need 00:17:42.759 --> 00:17:47.230 to get for the history project itself. And there 00:17:47.230 --> 00:17:50.589 are many people like Ed around the country that 00:17:50.589 --> 00:17:52.690 are recording these things. In fact, we have 00:17:52.690 --> 00:17:55.049 a gentleman here in the local Ann Arbor Ypsilanti 00:17:55.049 --> 00:17:58.190 area, that's Bill Villano. And Bill works with 00:17:58.190 --> 00:18:00.529 the Ypsilanti District Library, I believe it 00:18:00.529 --> 00:18:04.410 is, and has been recording veterans for, gosh, 00:18:04.490 --> 00:18:06.950 as long as I've known him, so almost 10 years. 00:18:07.529 --> 00:18:09.990 And he unfortunately couldn't make the program 00:18:09.990 --> 00:18:12.549 today, but he wanted to make sure that if you... 00:18:12.440 --> 00:18:14.740 Want more information here, especially in our 00:18:14.740 --> 00:18:17.799 local area, you can just give him a call. Let 00:18:17.799 --> 00:18:19.619 me just briefly, real quick, everybody get your 00:18:19.619 --> 00:18:22.940 pencils out. It's Bill Villano, V -O -L -L -A 00:18:22.940 --> 00:18:28.539 -N -O, and his email is W -M -J -V, W -M -J -V 00:18:28.539 --> 00:18:33.900 at ymail .com, the letter ymail .com. So Bill, 00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:38.960 there's your plug for you. Right. And I'll be 00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:41.079 willing to help too if they want to send me an 00:18:41.079 --> 00:18:44.019 email and say, hey Ed, I'm having trouble or 00:18:44.019 --> 00:18:46.099 whatever, I'd be glad to assist and help and 00:18:46.099 --> 00:18:49.359 that's all free for the vets and anyone trying 00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:52.259 to capture a veteran's story. I might add too, 00:18:52.420 --> 00:18:55.039 Dale, that they don't have to go to a VA to get 00:18:55.039 --> 00:18:57.839 this done. Right. It can be done anywhere. It 00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:01.039 just so happens that I'm with the VA and I use 00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:03.619 that as my watering hole, which it is, okay? 00:19:04.180 --> 00:19:06.920 You can go anywhere. Just do it. Follow the rules. 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:09.400 And you won't have to worry about them sending 00:19:09.400 --> 00:19:13.059 it back, because they do. There's certain formats 00:19:13.059 --> 00:19:15.880 that have to be met and certain audios that have 00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:18.299 to be met and things like that. So it's all in 00:19:18.299 --> 00:19:23.059 the kit. Well, actually, yes. And mine was done 00:19:23.059 --> 00:19:26.740 at a local high school. And there are many history 00:19:26.740 --> 00:19:28.700 teachers out there that are utilizing the Veterans 00:19:28.700 --> 00:19:31.759 History Project as a way of introducing their 00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:34.599 students to local veterans. And they find out 00:19:34.599 --> 00:19:36.869 that you know, the older gentleman that sits 00:19:36.869 --> 00:19:39.769 down at the local coffee shop and so on turns 00:19:39.769 --> 00:19:44.329 out to be a B -17 pilot who has amazing stories 00:19:44.329 --> 00:19:48.390 and just nobody asks them. So here's an opportunity 00:19:48.390 --> 00:19:51.049 not only for you as the veteran to get your story 00:19:51.049 --> 00:19:54.349 up because I think you guys, men and women, don't 00:19:54.349 --> 00:19:57.730 know how fascinating these stories are and 20 00:19:57.730 --> 00:19:59.869 years from now, 30 years from now, 100 years 00:19:59.869 --> 00:20:02.150 from now People are going to be able to go into 00:20:02.150 --> 00:20:04.650 the Library of Congress, type in your name, and 00:20:04.650 --> 00:20:06.750 they're going to hear your story. So your great, 00:20:06.910 --> 00:20:10.009 great, great grandchildren will be able to hear 00:20:10.009 --> 00:20:13.190 your voice explaining whatever it was that you 00:20:13.190 --> 00:20:16.329 did. I think that's important to history, too, 00:20:16.630 --> 00:20:20.789 in maintaining freedom. Also for vets with PTSD 00:20:20.789 --> 00:20:24.309 that have, you know, extreme PTSD, it's good 00:20:24.309 --> 00:20:26.630 therapy for them to tell their story and they 00:20:26.630 --> 00:20:30.099 enjoy it. So there's all sorts of benefits. There 00:20:30.099 --> 00:20:32.839 are, and I think it's, again, it's fascinating 00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:36.539 to know it is helpful, it is cathartic sometimes. 00:20:36.920 --> 00:20:39.119 For some people, I was talking to someone the 00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:42.140 other day and he just opened up and started telling 00:20:42.140 --> 00:20:44.359 me this amazing story about when he had been 00:20:44.359 --> 00:20:46.200 in the service and when he was done he said, 00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:49.519 I haven't told anybody that story in 40 years. 00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:54.759 There you go, there you go. And these are valuable 00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:57.000 stories, they're valuable lessons actually to 00:20:57.000 --> 00:20:59.480 be learned with these Ed, I think. And, you know, 00:21:00.059 --> 00:21:03.359 we keep, I don't know, telling people, you know, 00:21:03.380 --> 00:21:06.140 if you don't know your history, you're going 00:21:06.140 --> 00:21:09.119 to repeat it. And so we have to figure out a 00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:13.539 way to get these people to know that going to 00:21:13.539 --> 00:21:16.579 war is the last possible thing anybody ever wants 00:21:16.579 --> 00:21:20.420 to do. And so you need to talk to these men and 00:21:20.420 --> 00:21:22.920 women who have been there. And one of the concerns 00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:25.980 and complaints about this current political situation 00:21:25.980 --> 00:21:29.509 going on you know, in Washington is that there 00:21:29.509 --> 00:21:32.750 are not enough veterans in the Senate and the 00:21:32.750 --> 00:21:34.650 House of Representatives. So there's not enough, 00:21:35.049 --> 00:21:37.470 you know, there's not this calming voice in the 00:21:37.470 --> 00:21:39.109 background that says, hey, you know, before you 00:21:39.109 --> 00:21:42.869 send these guys off to whatever standard it is 00:21:42.869 --> 00:21:45.369 that you're going to send them to, think about 00:21:45.369 --> 00:21:47.430 it. Because are you going to be the one that 00:21:47.430 --> 00:21:50.049 goes and tells mom and dad, you know, really 00:21:50.049 --> 00:21:51.730 sorry that, you know, but your, you know, your 00:21:51.730 --> 00:21:56.130 son or daughter has died as a result of our mission. 00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:59.660 You're right. You're right. That was a little 00:21:59.660 --> 00:22:01.200 editorial, folks. I'm sorry about that. Well, 00:22:01.279 --> 00:22:03.900 that's all right. You're dead to point, for sure. 00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:06.920 An interesting story, too, is a part of the history, 00:22:07.099 --> 00:22:09.160 especially World War II, because there'll never 00:22:09.160 --> 00:22:11.859 be another war like World War II. No, there won't. 00:22:11.859 --> 00:22:16.119 Just the magnitude of the war alone. And young 00:22:16.119 --> 00:22:20.039 people today, the youth generation, doesn't get 00:22:20.039 --> 00:22:24.359 the message about what it was like, the scope. 00:22:24.519 --> 00:22:27.059 I just finished interviewing a good friend of 00:22:27.059 --> 00:22:30.220 mine, Rich Prashan. He's a B -17 commander, full 00:22:30.220 --> 00:22:34.660 colonel down at Pima Air Museum in Tucson, Arizona. 00:22:35.259 --> 00:22:39.339 And he was interviewed by a young news reporter 00:22:39.339 --> 00:22:42.180 who asked him, you know, just a quick question 00:22:42.180 --> 00:22:44.720 and didn't really have a clue and said, well, 00:22:44.839 --> 00:22:47.980 just give me an idea just how big was this? You 00:22:47.980 --> 00:22:51.500 know, he was talking about a mission. March the 00:22:51.500 --> 00:22:54.319 6th was the first daylight bombing into Berlin 00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:58.460 in 1944. And he said, we'll give you an idea. 00:22:58.660 --> 00:23:01.740 There were a thousand B -17s in the air. He said 00:23:01.740 --> 00:23:04.279 the jet stream coming off of those, that's the 00:23:04.279 --> 00:23:08.960 contrails, was 94 miles long. Can you ever imagine 00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:12.759 seeing a thousand B -17 bombers coming toward 00:23:12.759 --> 00:23:16.740 you? There's the scope. Oh my God. I mean, you 00:23:16.740 --> 00:23:18.960 just look at that magnitude and then you look 00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:20.859 at the African, you know, the Indian, the Native 00:23:20.859 --> 00:23:23.759 Americans. I'm taking a couple of those guys 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:25.940 that are on Walpole Island. These are Marines, 00:23:26.180 --> 00:23:28.460 right? And these guys serve with a hundred and 00:23:28.460 --> 00:23:31.960 some of them served with 173rd airborne. Check 00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:34.819 that one out and see what, you know, the Holocaust, 00:23:35.099 --> 00:23:37.660 that was Vietnam and the loss of life. Charlie 00:23:37.660 --> 00:23:40.220 company is another one and their tape, their 00:23:40.220 --> 00:23:42.970 stories are getting taped. Well, Ed, I'm sorry, 00:23:43.250 --> 00:23:45.690 we have run out of time for this segment of the 00:23:45.690 --> 00:23:47.849 program, but I want to thank you very much for 00:23:47.849 --> 00:23:50.130 being on Veterans Radio and I encourage everybody, 00:23:50.670 --> 00:23:52.569 at least in the Detroit area, you know, if you're 00:23:52.569 --> 00:23:54.349 at their VA and you see this guy hanging around 00:23:54.349 --> 00:23:56.650 with a tape recorder, go on up and talk to him. 00:23:56.769 --> 00:23:59.829 Get your story told. And around the country, 00:24:00.029 --> 00:24:01.970 we need to get your stories recorded and we want 00:24:01.970 --> 00:24:03.769 to continue doing this. Thank you very much, 00:24:03.769 --> 00:24:05.650 Ed, for being on Veterans Radio. You're welcome, 00:24:05.829 --> 00:24:07.809 David. It was a pleasure and an honor. Thank 00:24:07.809 --> 00:24:10.460 you very much. We're going to be taking a break 00:24:10.460 --> 00:24:13.039 here at the bottom with the news. We're going 00:24:13.039 --> 00:24:14.700 to be coming back and talking about the last 00:24:14.700 --> 00:24:17.140 days in Vietnam. When we come back after the 00:24:17.140 --> 00:24:19.559 news and the Medal of Honor segment, you're going 00:24:19.559 --> 00:24:22.339 to hear Richard Nixon's voice. Don't panic. He's 00:24:22.339 --> 00:24:26.380 not coming back. But he's going to be talking 00:24:26.380 --> 00:24:29.460 about the end of the Vietnam War. So stay tuned. 00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:31.619 You're listening to Veterans Radio. We'll be 00:24:31.619 --> 00:24:35.720 right back after the news. The Medal of Honor 00:24:35.720 --> 00:24:37.799 is the highest award for valor in combat given 00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:39.920 a member of the Armed Forces of the United States. 00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:42.880 There had been over 3 ,400 recipients of the 00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:46.180 nation's highest award. This is one of them. 00:24:46.420 --> 00:24:48.480 First Lieutenant Jack Jacobs, although seriously 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:51.220 wounded, made repeated trips across an open rice 00:24:51.220 --> 00:24:53.359 paddy, evacuating wounded and their weapons. 00:24:53.859 --> 00:24:58.220 Details after this. Jacobs served as an assistant 00:24:58.220 --> 00:25:01.420 battalion advisor in Kien Phong Province, Republic 00:25:01.420 --> 00:25:04.130 of Vietnam. The battalion was advancing when 00:25:04.130 --> 00:25:06.410 it came under intense heavy machine gun or mortar 00:25:06.410 --> 00:25:09.529 fire. Jacobs called for and directed airstrikes 00:25:09.529 --> 00:25:12.529 on the enemy positions. Due to the intensity 00:25:12.529 --> 00:25:14.750 of the enemy fire and heavy casualties to the 00:25:14.750 --> 00:25:17.029 command group, including the company commander, 00:25:17.710 --> 00:25:20.210 the attack stopped and the friendly troops became 00:25:20.210 --> 00:25:24.210 disorganized. Wounded by mortar fragments, Jacobs 00:25:24.210 --> 00:25:26.710 assumed command of the company, ordered a withdrawal 00:25:26.710 --> 00:25:29.250 from the exposed position, and established a 00:25:29.250 --> 00:25:32.039 defensive perimeter. Despite heavy bleeding from 00:25:32.039 --> 00:25:34.259 head wounds that impaired his vision, Jacobs 00:25:34.259 --> 00:25:36.980 returned under intense fire to evacuate a seriously 00:25:36.980 --> 00:25:39.640 wounded advisor to safety, where he administered 00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:43.119 life -saving first aid. He then returned through 00:25:43.119 --> 00:25:45.500 heavy automatic weapons fire to evacuate the 00:25:45.500 --> 00:25:48.599 wounded company commander. Jacobs made repeated 00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:51.660 trips across the fire swept open rice paddies, 00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:54.880 evacuating wounded and their weapons. On three 00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:57.700 separate occasions, Jacob drove off Viet Cong 00:25:57.700 --> 00:25:59.640 squads who were searching for allied wounded 00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:02.450 and weapons. single -handedly killing three and 00:26:02.450 --> 00:26:05.609 wounding several others. His actions saved the 00:26:05.609 --> 00:26:09.150 lives of a U .S. advisor and 13 allied soldiers. 00:26:09.789 --> 00:26:11.710 The Medal of Honor series is a production of 00:26:11.710 --> 00:26:15.670 Veterans Radio. And we're back on Veterans Radio, 00:26:15.769 --> 00:26:17.589 and that was President Richard Nixon talking 00:26:17.589 --> 00:26:20.549 about that we have ended the Vietnam War with 00:26:20.549 --> 00:26:26.710 honor in 1973. Two short years later, the North 00:26:26.710 --> 00:26:30.490 Vietnamese invaded the South. and we ended up 00:26:30.490 --> 00:26:36.630 having to evacuate Saigon. Today's lesson, I 00:26:36.630 --> 00:26:38.670 think, is going to be very interesting. Today's 00:26:38.670 --> 00:26:40.950 program, I'm back in my professorial mode here 00:26:40.950 --> 00:26:44.910 for suddenly. But today's program is about the 00:26:44.910 --> 00:26:46.869 last days of Saigon and the last days of the 00:26:46.869 --> 00:26:49.269 Vietnam War. If you want to get in on the conversation 00:26:49.269 --> 00:26:51.690 here, give us a call here at Veterans Radio at 00:26:51.690 --> 00:26:57.089 734 -822 -1600 or you can call us toll free at 00:26:57.089 --> 00:27:05.390 844... 838 -1600. That's 844 -VET -1600. Joining 00:27:05.390 --> 00:27:08.789 us on our line right now is Colonel Stuart Harrington, 00:27:08.869 --> 00:27:10.450 and let me just give you a little background 00:27:10.450 --> 00:27:13.890 on this gentleman. He did some really cool stuff. 00:27:14.170 --> 00:27:18.049 I'm always impressed by some of our guests. Colonel 00:27:18.049 --> 00:27:20.589 Stuart Harrington retired as a native of Mount 00:27:20.589 --> 00:27:23.450 Lebanon, Pennsylvania, graduated from Duquesne. 00:27:24.029 --> 00:27:26.089 political science, commissioned as a second lieutenant 00:27:26.089 --> 00:27:28.309 in the United States Army Intelligence Corps. 00:27:29.789 --> 00:27:32.710 Then he went on to get a master's degree in international 00:27:32.710 --> 00:27:35.210 relations and then he ended up getting a PhD 00:27:35.210 --> 00:27:38.289 in international relations, completing course 00:27:38.289 --> 00:27:40.910 in language requirements and all these other 00:27:40.910 --> 00:27:43.109 things. Ended up, let's see, he called active 00:27:43.109 --> 00:27:44.829 duty as a counter -intelligence officer with 00:27:44.829 --> 00:27:47.450 duties in Vietnam, Europe, Middle East, Asia, 00:27:47.549 --> 00:27:49.670 Latin America, became a German and Vietnamese 00:27:49.670 --> 00:27:53.460 linguist. Holy mackerel, served four years in 00:27:53.460 --> 00:27:57.299 Vietnam, eight years in Germany, and he was one 00:27:57.299 --> 00:28:00.220 of the last members of the U .S. Army to leave 00:28:00.220 --> 00:28:02.220 Vietnam as he departed the roof of the United 00:28:02.220 --> 00:28:05.279 States Embassy. Colonel Harrington, welcome to 00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:09.019 Veterans Radio. Thank you very much. It's a pleasure 00:28:09.019 --> 00:28:11.660 to be here. It's a real pleasure to talk to you. 00:28:12.660 --> 00:28:14.799 Just to remind our audience, we did a program 00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:19.900 back in 2012 about the evacuation of Saigon. 00:28:20.170 --> 00:28:24.170 And it's a book called Last Men Out, The True 00:28:24.170 --> 00:28:27.410 Story of America's Heroic Final Hours, which 00:28:27.410 --> 00:28:30.009 was a very exciting story. And when I got an 00:28:30.009 --> 00:28:32.369 opportunity to watch the documentary, The Last 00:28:32.369 --> 00:28:37.450 Days of Vietnam, I said, oh, I know a couple 00:28:37.450 --> 00:28:39.910 of these people. We talked to them on our program 00:28:39.910 --> 00:28:43.369 and learned all about this. Excuse me just a 00:28:43.369 --> 00:28:49.880 second. When you were in Vietnam, four tourists 00:28:49.880 --> 00:28:54.920 to me is crazy, but as a career officer I suppose 00:28:54.920 --> 00:28:59.019 that would happen. How did you get there first 00:28:59.019 --> 00:29:01.099 time? What was the first time you were in Vietnam? 00:29:03.339 --> 00:29:06.259 I was ordered to Vietnam the first time in January 00:29:06.259 --> 00:29:11.160 1971 while the war was still on and I was sent 00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:14.880 over there as a captain, the Indonesian linguist. 00:29:14.970 --> 00:29:17.829 as an intelligence officer working as an advisor 00:29:17.829 --> 00:29:20.670 to the South Vietnamese military at the tip of 00:29:20.670 --> 00:29:23.309 the Parrots Peak on the Cambodian border. And 00:29:23.309 --> 00:29:26.890 I stayed. I actually extended twice, so my 12 00:29:26.890 --> 00:29:29.849 -month tour wound up being about a 22 -month 00:29:29.849 --> 00:29:33.750 tour before I went back in mid to late August 00:29:33.750 --> 00:29:42.470 of 72. And then you went back in 75 again? Actually, 00:29:42.490 --> 00:29:45.000 I was back in the States for A little bit less 00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:47.160 than a year, and I was back over there in August 00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:50.400 of 73 and stayed until I was actually supposed 00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:53.799 to be there until August 75, but the North Vietnamese 00:29:53.799 --> 00:29:57.859 had other ideas. So I evacuated from the embassy, 00:29:57.859 --> 00:30:01.960 as you said, on the 30th of April, 75. So second 00:30:01.960 --> 00:30:06.660 tour was, again, another almost two -year stint 00:30:06.660 --> 00:30:12.029 from August 73 to 30th of April, 75. Well, let's 00:30:12.029 --> 00:30:14.349 bring our audience kind of up to speed on this. 00:30:14.890 --> 00:30:17.250 I just played the little segment of President 00:30:17.250 --> 00:30:19.329 Nixon announcing that the war has ended with 00:30:19.329 --> 00:30:22.609 honor and so forth and that we were going to 00:30:22.609 --> 00:30:27.069 defend South Vietnamese' right to remain a democracy. 00:30:27.910 --> 00:30:30.670 And less than two years later, the North Vietnamese 00:30:30.670 --> 00:30:36.829 came down and we didn't go. Could you explain 00:30:36.829 --> 00:30:41.539 that to us a little bit? Well, as you know by 00:30:41.539 --> 00:30:44.799 73 timeframe when the Paris agreement was signed 00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:47.619 the American public had become totally disenchanted 00:30:47.619 --> 00:30:50.039 with the war it just seemed to them that it went 00:30:50.039 --> 00:30:53.319 on and on it also seemed to them that our army 00:30:53.319 --> 00:30:55.640 and our Marines and our forces on the ground 00:30:55.640 --> 00:30:58.279 didn't quite have a clue as to what we were doing 00:30:58.279 --> 00:31:02.559 and That's another debate. I would argue and 00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:04.920 a lot of people argue that at the beginning we 00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:07.140 didn't but we finally figured it out after Teta 00:31:07.140 --> 00:31:10.210 68 But by the time we figured out what was called 00:31:10.210 --> 00:31:13.750 for, public opinion had already eroded. The media 00:31:13.750 --> 00:31:17.809 had turned against the war. And out of that, 00:31:18.029 --> 00:31:21.089 you got Richard Nixon's election and the Paris 00:31:21.089 --> 00:31:24.309 agreements, a promise to end the war. And that 00:31:24.309 --> 00:31:26.769 promise was carried out by the Paris agreements. 00:31:28.130 --> 00:31:32.009 They were fatally flawed. We took all the remaining 00:31:32.009 --> 00:31:35.470 Americans out of Vietnam. So there was no American 00:31:35.470 --> 00:31:38.720 military presence other than 50 of us. in the 00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:41.539 so -called Defense Attaché Office, but it left 00:31:41.539 --> 00:31:45.339 the North Vietnamese sitting astride huge tracks 00:31:45.339 --> 00:31:49.000 of South Vietnamese territory. So the Paris Agreement, 00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:52.079 which was essentially negotiated by the Nixon 00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:55.299 administration by Dr. Kissinger, almost at the 00:31:55.299 --> 00:31:57.339 point of the gun of public relations, I mean, 00:31:57.440 --> 00:32:00.779 it was clear that the war had to be ended, that 00:32:00.779 --> 00:32:03.299 we had to get our prisoners back, and that there 00:32:03.299 --> 00:32:06.039 was little... sympathies or patience for the 00:32:06.039 --> 00:32:09.799 South Vietnamese by that time? Well, that's true. 00:32:10.039 --> 00:32:13.779 I remember I was in Vietnam in 1969 and actually 00:32:13.779 --> 00:32:16.720 I was out in your area of the country quite a 00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:21.019 bit during that time period. And when I came 00:32:21.019 --> 00:32:24.960 back, I did not stay and they came down one day 00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:27.200 and they said, you know, guys can stay in for 00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:29.460 the rest of your lives or you can get out today. 00:32:29.880 --> 00:32:33.579 And I was a warrant officer, so I got out. I 00:32:33.579 --> 00:32:36.759 started following it again, and I found that 00:32:36.759 --> 00:32:38.880 when, you know, President Nixon announced the 00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:40.519 end of the war, everybody was, you know, all 00:32:40.519 --> 00:32:42.960 happy and, well, probably not everybody, but, 00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:44.359 you know, a lot of people were happy that we 00:32:44.359 --> 00:32:45.759 were finally getting out and that we were getting 00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:48.940 in our POW's home. And correct me if I'm wrong, 00:32:49.039 --> 00:32:50.859 though, and this is the thing that upset me when 00:32:50.859 --> 00:32:54.079 I watched the documentary, was that it was promised 00:32:54.079 --> 00:32:57.599 that if South Vietnam was attacked again, that 00:32:57.599 --> 00:32:59.880 we would come back, at least with weapons and 00:32:59.880 --> 00:33:03.940 everything, and... and protect them, correct? 00:33:05.619 --> 00:33:09.019 Yes, more or less. The Paris Agreement contained 00:33:09.019 --> 00:33:12.519 the authority for any of the signatories, especially 00:33:12.519 --> 00:33:16.339 meaning the North Vietnamese and us, to replace 00:33:16.339 --> 00:33:19.480 weapons and equipment on a one -for -one basis. 00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:21.720 So if equipment, if the ceasefire didn't hold, 00:33:22.119 --> 00:33:24.880 if there was attrition of weapons and equipment 00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:28.039 or things wore out, one -for -one replacement 00:33:28.039 --> 00:33:31.839 of arms was permitted. President Nixon went a 00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:34.240 step further because President Thieu, the South 00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:38.839 Vietnamese president, was very, very unwilling 00:33:38.839 --> 00:33:41.460 to sign up to this ferris agreement which took 00:33:41.460 --> 00:33:43.539 the Americans home and left the North Vietnamese 00:33:43.539 --> 00:33:48.359 in his backyard. The president promised the South 00:33:48.359 --> 00:33:51.599 Vietnamese in writing that should the North Vietnamese 00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:55.380 violate the ceasefire in a substantial way, the 00:33:55.380 --> 00:33:57.940 United States would respond with, quote, full 00:33:57.940 --> 00:34:03.160 force. to deal the North Vietnamese a retaliatory 00:34:03.160 --> 00:34:06.720 blow. So the President made a promise, which 00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:10.320 unfortunately our system being our system, he 00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:13.639 can make, but the money and the ability to carry 00:34:13.639 --> 00:34:16.659 out that promise rested with the Congress. And 00:34:16.659 --> 00:34:19.659 the Congress was simply not in a mood to sign 00:34:19.659 --> 00:34:22.280 up to that kind of a bargain. However, Nixon 00:34:22.280 --> 00:34:24.440 didn't tell the Congress about his letter to 00:34:24.440 --> 00:34:28.690 the South Vietnamese when he wrote it. you know, 00:34:28.710 --> 00:34:31.289 came about and Nixon's gone and they bring back, 00:34:31.530 --> 00:34:35.090 you know, President Ford is brought in and the 00:34:35.090 --> 00:34:39.170 time is already flying by, 15 minutes left. So 00:34:39.170 --> 00:34:42.630 let's get down to those last days, Colonel. We're 00:34:42.630 --> 00:34:45.889 talking with Colonel Stuart Harrington who was 00:34:45.889 --> 00:34:49.750 in Saigon on the last days when they decided 00:34:49.750 --> 00:34:51.610 that they'd better evacuate and you had some 00:34:51.610 --> 00:34:55.150 issues because there didn't seem to be any plan. 00:34:57.039 --> 00:35:01.820 Well, the difficulty was that our ambassador 00:35:01.820 --> 00:35:08.199 appointed by the president was extremely headstrong 00:35:08.199 --> 00:35:12.739 and adamant that he was not sent to be the ambassador 00:35:12.739 --> 00:35:15.880 to the Republic of Vietnam to be the last ambassador. 00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:19.940 He had lost a stepson in combat in Vietnam. He 00:35:19.940 --> 00:35:26.090 was absolutely determined that somehow that this 00:35:26.090 --> 00:35:29.769 was going to have a better than bad ending. And 00:35:29.769 --> 00:35:32.489 he persuaded himself that the North Vietnamese 00:35:32.489 --> 00:35:35.469 either didn't have the capability or the will 00:35:35.469 --> 00:35:40.250 or in any event would humiliate Washington by 00:35:40.250 --> 00:35:42.889 overturning the Paris Agreement by a conventional 00:35:42.889 --> 00:35:46.389 invasion of South Vietnam. So when that happened 00:35:46.389 --> 00:35:49.409 and when it became abundantly clear to almost 00:35:49.409 --> 00:35:52.469 any observer that the North Vietnamese in the 00:35:52.469 --> 00:35:56.099 form of 16 divisions were charging down the countryside, 00:35:56.219 --> 00:35:59.800 you know, the Highway 1 in broad daylight. They 00:35:59.800 --> 00:36:04.099 were indeed intent upon overturning the ceasefire. 00:36:05.099 --> 00:36:08.559 The ambassador was in denial and evacuation, 00:36:08.860 --> 00:36:12.880 which he deemed as an unthinkable thing based 00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:15.500 on his belief that somehow it would work out. 00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:18.679 There would be a political settlement. But evacuation 00:36:18.679 --> 00:36:21.260 was something that we didn't plan for. We didn't 00:36:21.260 --> 00:36:24.730 talk about it. We didn't utter the E word because 00:36:24.730 --> 00:36:27.809 of his fear that if the word got out that he, 00:36:28.190 --> 00:36:31.150 Ambassador Martin, and his mission were focusing 00:36:31.150 --> 00:36:34.050 on an evacuation, that this would cause panic 00:36:34.050 --> 00:36:37.090 and loss of any hope on the part of the South 00:36:37.090 --> 00:36:39.829 Vietnamese. So we were very constrained. It was 00:36:39.829 --> 00:36:42.610 evident on the one hand that an evacuation and 00:36:42.610 --> 00:36:45.530 plans for an evacuation to include threatened 00:36:45.530 --> 00:36:48.210 South Vietnamese who had thrown in their lot 00:36:48.210 --> 00:36:51.619 with the United States was in order. Yet, the 00:36:51.619 --> 00:36:55.400 Ambassador was adamant that thou shalt not when 00:36:55.400 --> 00:36:59.340 it came to discussing evacuation. Just to remind 00:36:59.340 --> 00:37:01.860 everybody that coming up on this coming Tuesday 00:37:01.860 --> 00:37:07.719 on the 28th, the last days of Vietnam, the documentary 00:37:07.719 --> 00:37:10.280 by Rory Kennedy is going to be shown on your 00:37:10.280 --> 00:37:12.360 local PBS station and that's the reason why we 00:37:12.360 --> 00:37:14.960 have Colonel Harrington on Veterans Radio today 00:37:14.960 --> 00:37:17.019 to talk about this. In fact, there's a whole 00:37:17.289 --> 00:37:19.710 series of programming the next couple of days 00:37:19.710 --> 00:37:22.530 on PBS to talk about Vietnam and I would encourage 00:37:22.530 --> 00:37:26.210 people to check it out just to see. I mean, you 00:37:26.210 --> 00:37:28.349 may not agree with the politics of the documentaries 00:37:28.349 --> 00:37:30.050 and so forth, but I think they're great learning 00:37:30.050 --> 00:37:32.750 lessons. You've got one coming up tomorrow night 00:37:32.750 --> 00:37:35.389 about the draft. This is something that we have 00:37:35.389 --> 00:37:38.289 mentioned on Veterans Radio. Dick Cavett, for 00:37:38.289 --> 00:37:40.730 the people our age, we all know who he is. For 00:37:40.730 --> 00:37:44.659 the younger people, he was sort of like the I 00:37:44.659 --> 00:37:46.920 don't know. He wasn't as funny as John Stewart, 00:37:46.960 --> 00:37:49.480 but he had interviews with many, many people 00:37:49.480 --> 00:37:51.320 during the Vietnam era and he's going to replay 00:37:51.320 --> 00:37:53.579 those. And they also talk about the time when 00:37:53.579 --> 00:37:58.460 the 1960s died, as they said. So the North Vietnamese 00:37:58.460 --> 00:38:01.139 are coming down Highway 1. I can remember this 00:38:01.139 --> 00:38:03.300 like it was yesterday, and I'm sure you do too, 00:38:03.300 --> 00:38:05.920 but all of the places that I had been in III 00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:08.380 Corps, where I was stationed, were falling. It 00:38:08.380 --> 00:38:10.480 seemed like every day another one, from Long 00:38:10.480 --> 00:38:13.320 Thanh to Tay Ninh to, you know, now you're getting 00:38:13.320 --> 00:38:15.559 down to... You know, they just kept coming down 00:38:15.559 --> 00:38:19.760 these highways. You tried to put together a plan. 00:38:19.780 --> 00:38:21.860 I remember in watching the documentary that there 00:38:21.860 --> 00:38:26.099 were four potential plans. Could you kind of 00:38:26.099 --> 00:38:29.820 mention those to us? Well, there was a JCS, a 00:38:29.820 --> 00:38:33.219 Joint Chiefs of Staff, operation, you know, a 00:38:33.219 --> 00:38:36.239 plan on the shelf, which was later named Operation 00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:39.260 Frequent Wind, which envisioned the possibility 00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:41.780 that an evacuation would have to take place. 00:38:41.920 --> 00:38:44.800 Mind you, this is a Department of Defense plan, 00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:48.099 whereas on the ground in Vietnam, the ambassador, 00:38:48.519 --> 00:38:51.539 Department of State, is responsible for evacuation 00:38:51.539 --> 00:38:53.780 and for the decision as to whether there would 00:38:53.780 --> 00:38:57.360 be an evacuation. But the plan on the shelf basically 00:38:57.360 --> 00:39:00.480 talked about how to get Americans out, and the 00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:03.500 four options you've alluded to had to do with, 00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:05.880 okay, in a perfect world, we bring people to 00:39:05.880 --> 00:39:07.800 the waterfront and we put them on ships and they 00:39:07.800 --> 00:39:10.840 leave. If things are a little tense or if that's 00:39:10.840 --> 00:39:14.639 not doable, then we can use commercial air, sort 00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:17.960 of recruit Pan American and other airlines to 00:39:17.960 --> 00:39:21.400 come into the airport and take people out. That 00:39:21.400 --> 00:39:25.460 was option two. Option three was the use of military 00:39:25.460 --> 00:39:30.000 air, C -130s, C -141s at the time that were bringing 00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:32.840 military aid such as was left in the pipeline 00:39:32.840 --> 00:39:35.320 to the South Vietnamese. And we could always 00:39:35.320 --> 00:39:37.940 use military fixed wing air out of Tonsignot 00:39:37.940 --> 00:39:41.400 Air Base. And then the dreaded option four was, 00:39:41.739 --> 00:39:44.579 if all else fails, if we can't avail ourselves 00:39:44.579 --> 00:39:48.039 of the first three options, then we go to heavy 00:39:48.039 --> 00:39:51.440 lift helicopters that basically come in and take 00:39:51.440 --> 00:39:55.800 out essential Americans to the task force. There 00:39:55.800 --> 00:39:57.880 was a naval task force out there, Task Force 00:39:57.880 --> 00:40:02.780 76. So option four was the last ditch option. 00:40:03.130 --> 00:40:06.409 But of course, on the ground, the major concern 00:40:06.409 --> 00:40:08.570 of those of us who were there was that none of 00:40:08.570 --> 00:40:11.050 these options talked about the better part of 00:40:11.050 --> 00:40:12.989 a quarter to a half a million of Vietnamese, 00:40:13.869 --> 00:40:19.369 at least many of whom had real reason to need 00:40:19.369 --> 00:40:24.610 to get out. And so planning was essentially for 00:40:24.610 --> 00:40:29.619 Americans and moving from that concept and going 00:40:29.619 --> 00:40:31.920 beyond that to, wait a minute, what about our 00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:34.599 Vietnamese allies was the major challenge of 00:40:34.599 --> 00:40:38.659 the day? Well, that's true. Of the people that 00:40:38.659 --> 00:40:41.199 were in Vietnam, you knew how many civilian contractors 00:40:41.199 --> 00:40:44.099 there were, how many Vietnamese nationals were 00:40:44.099 --> 00:40:46.699 working inside the various bases doing all kinds 00:40:46.699 --> 00:40:50.659 of jobs. For their cooperation, of course, with 00:40:50.659 --> 00:40:52.239 the Americans, they were going to be the ones 00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:54.239 that were going to be punished. when the Americans 00:40:54.239 --> 00:40:57.340 left and so you were left with the responsibility, 00:40:57.659 --> 00:41:01.059 it seems like you mostly, to figure out a way 00:41:01.059 --> 00:41:03.420 to get these people out and there's a nice quote 00:41:03.420 --> 00:41:05.380 here that says that sometimes there's an issue 00:41:05.380 --> 00:41:08.900 not of legal and illegal but of right or wrong 00:41:08.900 --> 00:41:12.760 and that's where you stepped up to the plate, 00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:16.000 Colonel, and started getting these people out. 00:41:16.760 --> 00:41:20.800 Could you address that a little bit? Yes, it 00:41:20.800 --> 00:41:24.000 should be noted though that You know, while the 00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:27.980 documentary focuses on a few folks who did what 00:41:27.980 --> 00:41:30.760 they considered to be right, and even broke the 00:41:30.760 --> 00:41:32.639 rules, knowing that there were consequences if 00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:35.239 the ambassador found out, but it wasn't just 00:41:35.239 --> 00:41:37.920 me. I mean, I had a boss, a lieutenant colonel, 00:41:37.980 --> 00:41:40.860 and his boss, a colonel. We were negotiations 00:41:40.860 --> 00:41:45.239 staff officers for the POW -MIA negotiation element, 00:41:45.699 --> 00:41:49.570 and they were certainly absolutely all for. doing 00:41:49.570 --> 00:41:52.030 whatever was necessary to get threatened Vietnamese 00:41:52.030 --> 00:41:54.610 out. There were State Department officers who 00:41:54.610 --> 00:41:58.889 broke the rules. There were USAID officers, intelligence 00:41:58.889 --> 00:42:02.630 officers, people like myself, my bosses, where 00:42:02.630 --> 00:42:05.110 quietly and without any coordination with one 00:42:05.110 --> 00:42:09.949 another, we just basically arranged to get people 00:42:09.949 --> 00:42:13.570 out. We used every subterfuge known to man to 00:42:13.570 --> 00:42:15.610 include, you know, box -bodied trucks with a 00:42:15.610 --> 00:42:18.409 U .S. Embassy license plate. to stuff 50 people 00:42:18.409 --> 00:42:21.050 in and get them to the flight line and, you know, 00:42:21.230 --> 00:42:23.829 push them aboard an empty C -130 that was on 00:42:23.829 --> 00:42:30.309 its way back to the Philippines to, for example, 00:42:30.809 --> 00:42:36.369 disguising a threatened Vietnamese in one of 00:42:36.369 --> 00:42:41.250 them who had a child by an American in a nun's 00:42:41.250 --> 00:42:44.630 outfit on Operation Babylift, the orphan lift. 00:42:44.860 --> 00:42:47.420 Where our way of getting this woman out and her 00:42:47.420 --> 00:42:50.179 child whose father was at the Philippines was 00:42:50.179 --> 00:42:53.199 to bring her onto a C -130 carrying an orphan, 00:42:53.519 --> 00:42:55.940 except it was really her child and then the crew 00:42:55.940 --> 00:42:59.699 secreted her in the cockpit and she got out. 00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:03.679 By hook or by crook, by any means or any subterfuge 00:43:03.679 --> 00:43:07.000 that we could think of, we essentially started 00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:09.639 bringing out hundreds and ultimately thousands 00:43:09.639 --> 00:43:14.239 of Vietnamese who were threatened. For example, 00:43:14.360 --> 00:43:16.780 our military counterparts in the P .O .W .M .I 00:43:16.780 --> 00:43:19.800 .A. negotiations business. There were about 300 00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:22.099 South Vietnamese involved in that and they all 00:43:22.099 --> 00:43:25.219 had families and we took all their families out, 00:43:25.619 --> 00:43:29.860 about 11 or 12 hundred folks and we got permission 00:43:29.860 --> 00:43:33.280 from Washington to break the rules, to stuff 00:43:33.280 --> 00:43:37.460 them all on an empty C -141. We had to get them 00:43:37.460 --> 00:43:39.920 sneaked onto Thompson -Uet. Bribes were sometimes 00:43:39.920 --> 00:43:44.340 paid in order to get on the base. and then things 00:43:44.340 --> 00:43:47.260 like driving them in buses, but driving them 00:43:47.260 --> 00:43:50.099 from the far side of the terminal so that the 00:43:50.099 --> 00:43:53.760 Vietnamese officers who were pulling security 00:43:53.760 --> 00:43:56.000 for the terminal didn't see that we were on the 00:43:56.000 --> 00:43:57.659 other side of the aircraft loading it up with 00:43:57.659 --> 00:44:01.599 the people who were leaving. So it was a loosey 00:44:01.599 --> 00:44:04.420 -goosey thing. It was in direct violation of 00:44:04.420 --> 00:44:07.880 the ambassador's rules, but we did it because, 00:44:07.880 --> 00:44:10.260 as you alluded to, it was the right thing to 00:44:10.260 --> 00:44:12.210 do. It was the right thing to do. It was the 00:44:12.210 --> 00:44:15.469 right thing to do. And as you watch this documentary, 00:44:15.650 --> 00:44:17.550 and again, I encourage our audience to watch 00:44:17.550 --> 00:44:20.510 this. Last States in Vietnam is on PBS. That's 00:44:20.510 --> 00:44:23.610 part of their American Experience series of programming 00:44:23.610 --> 00:44:27.369 on Tuesday night, 9 o 'clock Eastern time, to 00:44:27.369 --> 00:44:29.809 check your local PBS station to see when this 00:44:29.809 --> 00:44:33.070 program might be on. But when I was watching 00:44:33.070 --> 00:44:36.510 the documentary, I... I'm getting myself all 00:44:36.510 --> 00:44:40.650 excited here. North Vietnamese are coming down 00:44:40.650 --> 00:44:42.570 Highway 1, as you mentioned, down through Long 00:44:42.570 --> 00:44:45.170 Vinh and so forth. And now they started rocketing 00:44:45.170 --> 00:44:49.349 Tonso Newton, so that eliminated the big aircraft. 00:44:49.969 --> 00:44:52.889 So now you do have to go to the heavy lift helicopters 00:44:52.889 --> 00:44:56.130 to get them out, correct? That's right. On the 00:44:56.130 --> 00:44:59.969 night of the 29th, actually early morning hours 00:44:59.969 --> 00:45:03.460 of the 29th, about 4 o 'clock, the North Vietnamese 00:45:03.460 --> 00:45:06.820 launched their final attack against the city 00:45:06.820 --> 00:45:09.460 of Saigon. And this was an attack that came from 00:45:09.460 --> 00:45:12.280 three or four axes and directions by the better 00:45:12.280 --> 00:45:15.860 part of 16 divisions, massive artillery, 130 00:45:15.860 --> 00:45:20.119 millimeter heel guns, 122 millimeter howitzers, 00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:23.519 122 millimeter rockets. And their first target 00:45:23.519 --> 00:45:25.679 that they focused on was Tanzania in the air 00:45:25.679 --> 00:45:29.139 base. And so within a matter of a couple of hours, 00:45:29.500 --> 00:45:32.440 there were dozens of airframes burning. The runway 00:45:32.440 --> 00:45:36.619 was cluttered with ordnance. The South Vietnamese, 00:45:37.320 --> 00:45:40.159 seeing that this was happening and deducing it 00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:44.840 was the very last act in the drama. Many of them 00:45:44.840 --> 00:45:48.059 got in their aircraft with their families, jettisoned 00:45:48.059 --> 00:45:50.760 their ordnance, live ordnance all over the runway 00:45:50.760 --> 00:45:53.920 and flew to Thailand or wherever they could find 00:45:53.920 --> 00:45:56.940 safekeeping. So when the sun came up on the morning 00:45:56.940 --> 00:46:01.579 of the 29th of April, Two Marines, Corporals 00:46:01.579 --> 00:46:08.699 McMahon and Judge, were dead from a 122 rocket. 00:46:09.539 --> 00:46:13.320 The order was about to be given to go to option 00:46:13.320 --> 00:46:16.900 four, and our little MIA negotiations team was 00:46:16.900 --> 00:46:20.679 ordered to the U .S. Embassy. Our orders were 00:46:20.679 --> 00:46:22.679 to go to the embassy and be prepared to stay 00:46:22.679 --> 00:46:25.840 after the evacuation to continue negotiations 00:46:25.840 --> 00:46:31.110 on the POW -MIA question. Well, this is an exciting 00:46:31.110 --> 00:46:34.150 story, folks, and you've really got to go and 00:46:34.150 --> 00:46:36.289 see this when you get the opportunity because, 00:46:36.590 --> 00:46:38.070 you know, you've all seen the pictures. First 00:46:38.070 --> 00:46:39.530 of all, you know, one of the pictures of people 00:46:39.530 --> 00:46:42.369 supposedly on the embassy roof, you know, going 00:46:42.369 --> 00:46:44.989 up these stairs to get on the helicopter. That 00:46:44.989 --> 00:46:48.030 was at another building. It wasn't at the embassy. 00:46:48.809 --> 00:46:51.489 But then the helicopters flying out into the 00:46:51.489 --> 00:46:54.989 South China Sea attempting to land on some of 00:46:54.989 --> 00:46:57.260 these ships that were out there. and they only 00:46:57.260 --> 00:46:58.920 had little landing pads and that's one of the 00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:01.420 reasons that they ended up throwing them into 00:47:01.420 --> 00:47:06.699 the South China Sea. Obviously you got out but 00:47:06.699 --> 00:47:09.820 you were there at the very end. Were you up on 00:47:09.820 --> 00:47:13.559 that roof when you didn't think they were coming 00:47:13.559 --> 00:47:18.739 back to get you? Actually there were two dramas 00:47:18.739 --> 00:47:21.780 there. The first was when the President ordered 00:47:21.780 --> 00:47:25.739 an end to the evacuation and myself and my two 00:47:25.739 --> 00:47:27.920 bosses, Lieutenant Colonel Summers, Colonel Madison, 00:47:28.420 --> 00:47:32.639 our three NCOs, who had been handling the actual 00:47:32.639 --> 00:47:34.960 marshaling of the refugees, putting them into 00:47:34.960 --> 00:47:37.360 groups of 50, getting them to throw away their 00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:40.460 suitcases, getting them to, you know, be calm, 00:47:40.719 --> 00:47:42.820 cooperative, otherwise no one would get out. 00:47:43.280 --> 00:47:50.219 We were told at around 5 a .m. that the president 00:47:50.219 --> 00:47:53.949 had ordered an end to the evacuation. My boss, 00:47:54.070 --> 00:47:56.610 Colonel Madison, told the Marine officer who 00:47:56.610 --> 00:47:59.389 imparted the bad news that that was unacceptable, 00:47:59.769 --> 00:48:01.710 that we'd been promised the helicopters, that 00:48:01.710 --> 00:48:04.590 there were only 420 people left in the parking 00:48:04.590 --> 00:48:08.309 lot, and then it would be a clean sweep. And 00:48:08.309 --> 00:48:10.710 the Marine said, I'm sorry, sir, but it's over. 00:48:10.849 --> 00:48:13.789 It's a presidential order. And when Colonel Madison 00:48:13.789 --> 00:48:15.670 said, I'll take this up with the ambassador, 00:48:16.329 --> 00:48:19.849 the Marine pointed to a CH -46 lifting off the 00:48:19.849 --> 00:48:21.909 roof of the embassy and said, you can't, sir. 00:48:22.050 --> 00:48:26.050 That's him. in that helicopter. So at that point 00:48:26.050 --> 00:48:29.829 we were stuck and the last drama of the U .S. 00:48:29.929 --> 00:48:32.610 Army in Vietnam happened when Colonels Madison 00:48:32.610 --> 00:48:35.170 and Summers went up to the roof with most of 00:48:35.170 --> 00:48:37.710 our NCOs, told me to stay in the parking lot 00:48:37.710 --> 00:48:41.289 and keep the refugees, the 420, warm so they 00:48:41.289 --> 00:48:44.210 wouldn't panic if we all left at the same time. 00:48:45.329 --> 00:48:48.929 And eventually, 5 .30 in the morning on the 30th 00:48:48.929 --> 00:48:53.369 of April, I... broke myself away from the group, 00:48:53.909 --> 00:48:56.250 went to the roof and got on a helicopter along 00:48:56.250 --> 00:49:01.289 with our two remaining NCOs and the US Army presence 00:49:01.289 --> 00:49:04.690 in Vietnam ended at that moment for the history 00:49:04.690 --> 00:49:09.550 of the war. However, still in the compound, apart 00:49:09.550 --> 00:49:13.610 from the unlucky 420 whom we had promised safe 00:49:13.610 --> 00:49:18.010 haven, there were about three platoons of Marines 00:49:18.010 --> 00:49:19.809 who'd been brought in earlier in the day from 00:49:19.809 --> 00:49:21.989 the fleet to help guard, you know, protect the 00:49:21.989 --> 00:49:25.090 embassy walls. Then there was a squad of 11 Marines 00:49:25.090 --> 00:49:29.230 from the embassy security guard detachment, and 00:49:29.230 --> 00:49:32.989 you probably surely interviewed top sergeant, 00:49:32.989 --> 00:49:35.949 top connery sergeant Juan Valdez. That's the 00:49:35.949 --> 00:49:40.949 one. Yeah, you probably know Top. He's a superlative 00:49:40.949 --> 00:49:44.960 NCO. and ten others, including Major Keane, the 00:49:44.960 --> 00:49:48.239 Marine Security Guard Company Commander. After 00:49:48.239 --> 00:49:50.139 they took out the three platoons of Marines, 00:49:50.519 --> 00:49:52.820 it was announced that the evacuation was over, 00:49:53.099 --> 00:49:56.559 that the Ambassador was out, and it was close 00:49:56.559 --> 00:50:00.559 out, finished. At that point, though, there were 00:50:00.559 --> 00:50:03.780 still 11 Marines on the roof who had somehow, 00:50:04.079 --> 00:50:05.219 somebody, when they were doing the counting, 00:50:05.880 --> 00:50:09.750 just miscounted and miscalculated. Even after 00:50:09.750 --> 00:50:12.849 Dr. Kissinger gave a Washington press conference 00:50:12.849 --> 00:50:15.590 in which he said, we got everyone out who needed 00:50:15.590 --> 00:50:18.710 to get out and, you know, it's over and congratulations 00:50:18.710 --> 00:50:21.510 to the heroic people who made it happen, there 00:50:21.510 --> 00:50:23.789 were still 11 Marines on the roof of that embassy. 00:50:24.030 --> 00:50:27.050 And there were 420 very angry people in the parking 00:50:27.050 --> 00:50:28.789 lot. I can understand that. People are going 00:50:28.789 --> 00:50:30.610 to have to tune in to see what happens to this 00:50:30.610 --> 00:50:34.000 thing on Tuesday night. Last Days of Vietnam 00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:36.860 on American Experience on PBS. Colonel Harrison, 00:50:36.980 --> 00:50:39.260 thank you very much for being on Veterans Radio. 00:50:39.599 --> 00:50:41.260 I would love to talk to you again and have you 00:50:41.260 --> 00:50:43.699 back on the program. This is just an amazing 00:50:43.699 --> 00:50:46.500 story to me. Thank you very much. Thank you, 00:50:46.539 --> 00:50:49.239 sir. It was my honor. Thank you. All right, folks. 00:50:49.400 --> 00:50:52.420 This is what you've got to do. Turn on the TV 00:50:52.420 --> 00:50:54.340 on Tuesday night. I hate to say that in a different 00:50:54.340 --> 00:50:57.199 form of media, but watch those programs. I think 00:50:57.199 --> 00:50:58.719 you're going to learn something that you didn't 00:50:58.719 --> 00:51:01.519 know about Vietnam. So on behalf of all of us 00:51:01.519 --> 00:51:03.820 here at Veterans Radio, I want to thank you again 00:51:03.820 --> 00:51:06.099 for listening. You are dismissed.