WEBVTT 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:08.859 All across America and around the world, this 00:00:08.859 --> 00:00:16.300 is Veterans Radio. This is Veterans Radio. And 00:00:16.300 --> 00:00:20.359 now, your host for today's program, Dale Throneberry. 00:00:25.579 --> 00:00:27.940 And good afternoon and welcome to another Veterans 00:00:27.940 --> 00:00:33.490 Radio program here at WAAM 1600 Talk Radio. We 00:00:33.490 --> 00:00:37.070 welcome you to our program today. I want to wish 00:00:37.070 --> 00:00:40.789 everybody a happy Easter and hope that you're 00:00:40.789 --> 00:00:42.509 able to get together with family and friends 00:00:42.509 --> 00:00:44.570 sometime during the day and just be thankful 00:00:44.570 --> 00:00:46.710 for what we've got in this gorgeous country that 00:00:46.710 --> 00:00:52.490 we are in. What was Easter like in Vietnam? Sorry 00:00:52.490 --> 00:00:55.270 for the pause of dead silence. Did you have a 00:00:55.270 --> 00:00:56.270 mission? I don't think there was any difference. 00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:02.420 Those that were probably a little bit more religious 00:01:02.420 --> 00:01:05.060 than I was Might have gone to Catholics. I always 00:01:05.060 --> 00:01:06.840 had mass. It seemed like I mean did they have 00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:09.760 a mission that day? Yeah, we thought that we 00:01:09.760 --> 00:01:12.939 flew another day. It's just another day the only 00:01:12.939 --> 00:01:15.379 days we would get off were usually well, you 00:01:15.379 --> 00:01:20.159 didn't get them off, but they would have a Ceasefire 00:01:20.159 --> 00:01:23.700 sometimes during around Christmas or Thanksgiving 00:01:23.700 --> 00:01:25.819 and things. I don't remember one because I was 00:01:25.819 --> 00:01:32.159 I was a new pilot in April of 1969, and I think... 00:01:32.159 --> 00:01:33.680 I'm trying to remember what was going on. I was 00:01:33.680 --> 00:01:35.540 looking that up the other day. They didn't send 00:01:35.540 --> 00:01:38.000 you there for an Easter egg hunt. No, we were 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:41.579 looking for other stuff. But April 8, 1969, I 00:01:41.579 --> 00:01:44.560 became an aircraft commander. So, what's that, 00:01:45.319 --> 00:01:50.659 45 years ago? Something like that. Got my own 00:01:50.659 --> 00:01:52.920 helicopter. That was kind of cool. That was fun. 00:01:53.140 --> 00:01:55.159 What was the name of your helicopter? Sky Chief 00:01:55.159 --> 00:01:58.239 108. Well, did you give it, you know, like little 00:01:58.239 --> 00:02:01.359 milk mop in there? No, we didn't give them names 00:02:01.359 --> 00:02:03.719 like they did World War II aircraft. They just, 00:02:03.719 --> 00:02:05.560 you know, we just had the little tail number 00:02:05.560 --> 00:02:08.319 on them and that was it. It was all painted up 00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:11.900 nice and clean. It was a nice helicopter. It 00:02:11.900 --> 00:02:14.919 didn't survive, unfortunately. When they left 00:02:14.919 --> 00:02:17.259 Vietnam in 75, which again is another one of 00:02:17.259 --> 00:02:20.860 those anniversaries, is that it was one of the 00:02:20.860 --> 00:02:24.419 ones that got thrown overboard. So it's in the 00:02:24.419 --> 00:02:29.020 South China Sea somewhere. Archaeologists will 00:02:29.020 --> 00:02:30.780 find it. That's right. Do you leave any chewing 00:02:30.780 --> 00:02:32.879 gum there? No, probably underneath the seat. 00:02:33.139 --> 00:02:36.539 There probably might be some in there. I want 00:02:36.539 --> 00:02:38.219 to remind our audience today that we are going 00:02:38.219 --> 00:02:40.539 to be talking with Mark Harris, and he's written 00:02:40.539 --> 00:02:43.699 a great book called Five Came Back, a story of 00:02:43.699 --> 00:02:47.379 Hollywood in the Second World War. You guys got 00:02:47.379 --> 00:02:49.060 to stick around for this one. This is a great 00:02:49.060 --> 00:02:50.919 story. Not only are we going to learn about these 00:02:50.919 --> 00:02:54.300 five great directors that all of us grew up with 00:02:54.300 --> 00:02:57.500 watching, the westerns and, you know, romantic 00:02:57.500 --> 00:02:59.759 comedies and all kinds of things like that, but 00:02:59.759 --> 00:03:02.759 just the history of what was going on just before 00:03:02.759 --> 00:03:04.300 World War II. I think it's going to be fascinating. 00:03:04.520 --> 00:03:07.099 They played a huge role. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. 00:03:07.259 --> 00:03:09.460 I think it's going to be... I'm anxious to talk 00:03:09.460 --> 00:03:13.289 about this. I was... Well, I saw them after, 00:03:13.770 --> 00:03:16.569 more in the late 40s when they were being re 00:03:16.569 --> 00:03:19.469 -run. Remember Victory FC? Oh yeah. Who directed 00:03:19.469 --> 00:03:24.930 that? I was on NBC, I remember that. Because 00:03:24.930 --> 00:03:28.449 I remember watching the waves and airplanes. 00:03:28.449 --> 00:03:30.969 Oh man. Oh, I didn't miss it. Sunday morning. 00:03:31.770 --> 00:03:33.990 It was like 10 o 'clock Sunday morning. It would 00:03:33.990 --> 00:03:36.259 be that. It would be that. But we have a couple 00:03:36.259 --> 00:03:38.039 of things that we want to get out to you, like 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:40.039 we always do at the beginning of Veterans Radio. 00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:42.300 And Bob, you've got somebody that you wanted 00:03:42.300 --> 00:03:44.819 to talk to. Well, no, actually, I have two things. 00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:46.520 First of all, remember, folks, there's going 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:50.860 to be an Agent Orange Legacy Town Hall May 9th. 00:03:50.900 --> 00:03:53.439 That's this year, May 9th at Northville High 00:03:53.439 --> 00:03:56.479 School. and that's going to be put on by the 00:03:56.479 --> 00:03:58.539 Vietnam Veterans of America. There's going to 00:03:58.539 --> 00:04:00.539 be a number of speakers, and it's not going to 00:04:00.539 --> 00:04:02.300 be like an all -day thing. I think it's only 00:04:02.300 --> 00:04:04.419 like four hours. Right, from eight in the morning 00:04:04.419 --> 00:04:07.860 until one. Right, but here's the key word, legacy. 00:04:08.460 --> 00:04:11.180 What's being left to the future generations? 00:04:11.300 --> 00:04:15.180 I know, Dale, that's something that has very 00:04:15.180 --> 00:04:17.600 close to your heart. Yes, it was something that 00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:20.759 I'm getting more and more concerned about it 00:04:20.759 --> 00:04:23.189 as I talk to more and more friends who's... Children 00:04:23.189 --> 00:04:25.569 and grandchildren are having issues that they 00:04:25.569 --> 00:04:27.250 feel might be related to being exposed Well, 00:04:27.250 --> 00:04:29.389 that's all going to be what do you do about it? 00:04:29.449 --> 00:04:31.310 Right? There's going to be something now. Okay. 00:04:31.329 --> 00:04:34.490 Well, what if I live in Texas? What do I do man? 00:04:34.610 --> 00:04:36.730 Well, I'll tell you what you're going to do We 00:04:36.730 --> 00:04:40.290 veterans radio on our internet our internet station 00:04:40.290 --> 00:04:42.810 will be broadcasting that that's right. So you'll 00:04:42.810 --> 00:04:44.509 be able to hear it We'll give you more information. 00:04:44.689 --> 00:04:47.949 That's May 9th. That's a Saturday. I believe 00:04:47.949 --> 00:04:51.870 yes And way cool. And those of you local that 00:04:51.870 --> 00:04:54.170 want to attend, you're going to want to give 00:04:54.170 --> 00:05:04.209 a call to 734 -421 -1805. 734 -421 -1805. You 00:05:04.209 --> 00:05:07.430 should always have a pencil and paper when you're 00:05:07.430 --> 00:05:09.329 listening to Veterans Radio, right? You never 00:05:09.329 --> 00:05:12.230 know. That's being sponsored by the Vietnam Veterans 00:05:12.230 --> 00:05:17.529 of America. 510? No, not 510. 528. So you can 00:05:17.529 --> 00:05:20.709 go to their website, vba528 .org, and there's 00:05:20.709 --> 00:05:22.990 an application there. They do want to just get 00:05:22.990 --> 00:05:24.629 an idea of how many people are going to be there 00:05:24.629 --> 00:05:25.509 because they're going to be supplying materials. 00:05:26.089 --> 00:05:28.509 And we'll give you more information on how you 00:05:28.509 --> 00:05:31.689 can go to our internet network and then pick 00:05:31.689 --> 00:05:33.750 that up live. Great stuff. I want to see more 00:05:33.750 --> 00:05:37.990 of that. Now, well, it's coming up once again, 00:05:38.269 --> 00:05:41.589 Memorial Day, not too long from now, about four 00:05:41.589 --> 00:05:46.250 weeks, right? How's my guy? Is he standing by? 00:05:46.459 --> 00:05:51.100 Got it. Okay. So I was able to make contact with 00:05:51.100 --> 00:05:55.160 the folks at Reese Across America and I have 00:05:55.160 --> 00:05:58.240 with me on the phone and he's taken time out 00:05:58.240 --> 00:06:03.199 from his very well -deserved vacation to be on 00:06:03.199 --> 00:06:05.399 the program with us, the chairman of the board 00:06:05.399 --> 00:06:08.480 of Reese Across America, Mr. Wayne Hanson. But 00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:12.240 before I introduce him, Dale. What? I think he 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:16.360 was 19... 1969 Vietnam veteran. It was a captain. 00:06:16.660 --> 00:06:20.300 Wayne, is that true? Was that it? 1969? That's 00:06:20.300 --> 00:06:24.519 correct. September 69, September 70. Okay. Well, 00:06:24.519 --> 00:06:26.579 welcome home, sir. Well, thank you, same to you. 00:06:26.579 --> 00:06:29.220 Welcome home. Where were you? I was over in Phu 00:06:29.220 --> 00:06:33.139 Bai, out by the DMZ. Phu Bai, okay. I was with 00:06:33.139 --> 00:06:36.839 the military police corps, and we ran patrols 00:06:36.839 --> 00:06:40.279 from the DMZ down at Da Nang, and then February 00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:44.649 of... In 1970, I took over the MP company down 00:06:44.649 --> 00:06:47.230 in Da Nang in our combined military police patrols 00:06:47.230 --> 00:06:49.269 we had down in Da Nang when the Marines started 00:06:49.269 --> 00:06:52.410 pulling out. I told Bob earlier that at the end 00:06:52.410 --> 00:06:55.430 of 1969, they started pulling troops out. I was 00:06:55.430 --> 00:06:59.990 down in the Longbin area in III Corps. Actually, 00:07:00.170 --> 00:07:04.750 my company was sent home in 1970 and disbanded. 00:07:05.470 --> 00:07:09.779 That was the end of it. Well, this is kind of 00:07:09.779 --> 00:07:12.180 informally, folks, the way that we like to introduce 00:07:12.180 --> 00:07:14.800 each other. Wayne Hansen, welcome to Veterans 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:16.959 Radio, first of all. Thank you, Bob, for having 00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:20.319 me on. And my partner right here, Dale Throneberry, 00:07:20.500 --> 00:07:22.740 who happens to be the host today, but my partner 00:07:22.740 --> 00:07:26.040 for the last 12 years, Vietnam Veterans Slick. 00:07:26.569 --> 00:07:28.930 pilot. Those of you that don't know what a slick 00:07:28.930 --> 00:07:32.290 pilot is. Well, that's the guy that flies helicopters 00:07:32.290 --> 00:07:34.829 with those little skids on them, right? Yeah, 00:07:34.970 --> 00:07:37.050 they're skids, yeah. We carried everything, let's 00:07:37.050 --> 00:07:39.209 put it that way. That's right. We did the ashen 00:07:39.209 --> 00:07:42.829 trash. We were the truckers of the air. Well, 00:07:42.949 --> 00:07:45.490 Wayne, we're going to certainly have you coming 00:07:45.490 --> 00:07:48.689 on back so we can talk some more about this Vietnam 00:07:48.689 --> 00:07:52.389 veteran and this Vietnam experience. You are 00:07:52.389 --> 00:07:54.310 the chairman of the board of Reese Across America. 00:07:54.529 --> 00:08:01.149 Folks, Reese Across America has been in existence 00:08:01.149 --> 00:08:03.730 a few years, and what they do, they place Reese 00:08:03.730 --> 00:08:08.509 at cemeteries, veterans' headstones, and you 00:08:08.509 --> 00:08:11.209 can get involved. In fact, you can even sponsor 00:08:11.209 --> 00:08:14.769 your own cemetery. Well, anyway, why should I 00:08:14.769 --> 00:08:16.750 say any more of this? Wayne, welcome to Veterans 00:08:16.750 --> 00:08:19.310 Radio. Tell us all about it. Well, thank you. 00:08:19.790 --> 00:08:23.470 Wreaths Across America, it's a 501c3 organization, 00:08:24.209 --> 00:08:26.589 a non -profit organization that really sprung 00:08:26.589 --> 00:08:30.829 out of one man's dream and action that started 00:08:30.829 --> 00:08:35.509 back in 1992 when Morrill Worcester, a wreath 00:08:35.509 --> 00:08:39.409 maker from Maine, he had won a trip to Washington 00:08:39.409 --> 00:08:42.789 D .C. as a 12 -year -old child and as part of 00:08:42.789 --> 00:08:45.409 that trip he had a tour of Arlington National 00:08:45.409 --> 00:08:48.500 Cemetery. and he was just so impressed with that 00:08:48.500 --> 00:08:51.039 that when he went back to Maine and went to school 00:08:51.039 --> 00:08:55.200 and started in the wreath business in 92 he had 00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:57.960 purchased he was buying wreaths at that time 00:08:57.960 --> 00:09:01.559 and he had found that he had an overage of stock 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:04.840 as the holiday season started to come to an end 00:09:04.840 --> 00:09:07.320 and they were saying kind of saying well what 00:09:07.320 --> 00:09:09.000 are we going to do with all these wreaths and 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:12.759 he had about 5 ,000 wreaths and he got a hold 00:09:12.759 --> 00:09:15.539 of the main senator at that time Olympia Snow 00:09:15.840 --> 00:09:18.340 and said, I'd like to bring these to Arlington. 00:09:18.500 --> 00:09:22.320 Can we do that? And Olympia Snow's office got 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:24.940 a hold of Arlington Cemetery and asked that question. 00:09:25.620 --> 00:09:27.860 And they said, well, nobody's ever done anything 00:09:27.860 --> 00:09:29.559 like that. But if you want to bring them down, 00:09:29.639 --> 00:09:33.519 go ahead. So he got one man, one company up there 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:36.259 to donate a truck. And they drove down overnight 00:09:36.259 --> 00:09:39.700 and brought 5 ,000 reeds to Arlington. And that 00:09:39.700 --> 00:09:42.730 just started something. It was Morrill's tribute 00:09:42.730 --> 00:09:45.490 to the veterans, to thank the veterans. He is 00:09:45.490 --> 00:09:48.570 not a veteran himself, but he wanted to take 00:09:48.570 --> 00:09:51.830 that opportunity to thank the veterans for their 00:09:51.830 --> 00:09:55.190 service and sacrifice and allowing him to stay 00:09:55.190 --> 00:09:59.809 free and do what he was doing in his business. 00:10:00.610 --> 00:10:06.450 He continued that process from 1992 until 2005 00:10:06.450 --> 00:10:09.899 with very little He didn't seek any publicity 00:10:09.899 --> 00:10:12.940 for himself. He had a few volunteers that helped 00:10:12.940 --> 00:10:15.460 him put the wreath down. That's how I became 00:10:15.460 --> 00:10:19.299 involved back in 93. I belong to the Maine State 00:10:19.299 --> 00:10:22.279 Society, which is a group of people who have 00:10:22.279 --> 00:10:24.559 ties to Maine that live in the Washington area. 00:10:25.139 --> 00:10:27.720 And we volunteered to help him put these wreaths 00:10:27.720 --> 00:10:31.720 down. But in 2005, there was a group from the 00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:33.899 Air Force, and there was an Air Force photographer 00:10:33.899 --> 00:10:36.379 that was helping us. And he happened to take 00:10:36.379 --> 00:10:39.320 a picture of the wreaths that had snowed, and 00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:42.740 he put that picture on the internet with everything 00:10:42.740 --> 00:10:47.179 that goes on. And it went viral, that picture. 00:10:47.720 --> 00:10:49.940 And people did not believe that that has been 00:10:49.940 --> 00:10:53.620 happening since 1992, bringing those wreaths 00:10:53.620 --> 00:10:56.379 down. People just couldn't believe it. And they 00:10:56.379 --> 00:11:00.240 found out that, yeah, it had been. So he and 00:11:00.240 --> 00:11:02.879 his family got together and said, if we can do 00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:05.799 this to remember our veterans, at Arlington, 00:11:06.820 --> 00:11:08.980 then why can't we do this at other locations? 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:14.220 So they applied for and were granted 501c3 nonprofit 00:11:14.220 --> 00:11:18.019 organization status in 2007. What year was that? 00:11:18.259 --> 00:11:23.080 In 2007. They got that designation. And it started 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:26.580 with about a hundred more locations and it has 00:11:26.580 --> 00:11:30.820 grown every year. Last year we had over a thousand 00:11:30.820 --> 00:11:33.720 locations across the country in all 50 states. 00:11:34.090 --> 00:11:42.509 and we placed about 716 ,000 wreaths that were 00:11:42.509 --> 00:11:45.029 sponsored across the country at these locations. 00:11:46.830 --> 00:11:50.490 One of the main points of having you on this 00:11:50.490 --> 00:11:53.370 program, of course to give the background, but 00:11:53.370 --> 00:11:56.509 folks can get involved. I know last year, Dale, 00:11:56.850 --> 00:12:02.129 that was Jamie and Andrew and their Right, and 00:12:02.129 --> 00:12:06.309 they had a number of wreaths, right, didn't they? 00:12:06.509 --> 00:12:09.210 And so they were involved and, you know, so many 00:12:09.210 --> 00:12:12.169 of us, we tie ribbons around the trees, we have 00:12:12.169 --> 00:12:15.070 a bumper sticker, we do etc., etc. Well, this 00:12:15.070 --> 00:12:18.429 is something now that you can really put yourself 00:12:18.429 --> 00:12:23.429 into. Folks you can get yourself involved. Yeah, 00:12:23.490 --> 00:12:26.049 and you can you can do that. Tell us all about 00:12:26.049 --> 00:12:28.870 Wayne How does somebody okay? I want to get something 00:12:28.870 --> 00:12:31.610 sir, and you know if you don't even have to be 00:12:31.610 --> 00:12:36.090 military to know this No, no, we have so go ahead 00:12:36.090 --> 00:12:40.970 real quick groups children's group We rely on 00:12:40.970 --> 00:12:43.889 the the public to help us. We receive no government 00:12:43.889 --> 00:12:46.769 funds It's all individuals reaching into their 00:12:46.769 --> 00:12:49.669 pocket and pulling out fifteen dollars will sponsor 00:12:49.669 --> 00:12:53.889 a wreath You can become involved by going on 00:12:53.889 --> 00:12:57.929 our website, wreathsacrossedamerica .org, and 00:12:57.929 --> 00:12:59.929 checking on the locations. As I said, we have 00:12:59.929 --> 00:13:03.289 over 1 ,000 locations we grow every year. You 00:13:03.289 --> 00:13:05.509 can help at one of those locations. You can pick 00:13:05.509 --> 00:13:09.129 your state, click on that particular state, and 00:13:09.129 --> 00:13:11.970 it'll give you a drop -down of what cemeteries. 00:13:12.139 --> 00:13:15.600 where we have what we call a location coordinator 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:20.360 who has agreed to do a ceremony. We do it the 00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:23.240 second Saturday in December. This year will be 00:13:23.240 --> 00:13:27.379 Saturday December 12th. You can contact that 00:13:27.379 --> 00:13:29.779 local location leader if you want to get involved 00:13:29.779 --> 00:13:33.240 locally or you can go online and make a donation 00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:38.840 to help us. Phil Arlington, last year it was 00:13:38.840 --> 00:13:41.519 the 150th anniversary of Arlington Cemetery. 00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:46.279 And I consider Arlington a cemetery as the nation's 00:13:46.279 --> 00:13:48.980 cemetery because there are veterans from every 00:13:48.980 --> 00:13:52.500 state buried there at Arlington. And our goal 00:13:52.500 --> 00:13:56.340 last year was to be able to cover every headstone 00:13:56.340 --> 00:13:59.779 at Arlington last year. And with the great support 00:13:59.779 --> 00:14:03.100 of the public and some corporations, we were 00:14:03.100 --> 00:14:10.340 able to do that. We placed 226 ,525 Wreaths at 00:14:10.340 --> 00:14:13.100 Arlington and that's that's on we covered every 00:14:13.100 --> 00:14:18.360 marker that was eligible to receive a Remembrance 00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:21.399 wreath of veterans wreath last year in support 00:14:21.399 --> 00:14:24.879 of Arlington's 150th anniversary Well with we'd 00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:27.120 like you to come back on between now and Memorial 00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:29.840 Day and and and we'll go over this again. So 00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:34.019 Thank you very much. We've got that's wreathsacrossamerica 00:14:34.019 --> 00:14:38.690 .org folks Reese Across, Reese, W -R -E -A -T 00:14:38.690 --> 00:14:42.629 -H -S, AcrossAmerica .org, all the information's 00:14:42.629 --> 00:14:44.929 on there. You're going to want to go and do that. 00:14:45.070 --> 00:14:47.149 Wayne, thank you very much for being on the program 00:14:47.149 --> 00:14:50.830 and thank your family for giving you up. Dale, 00:14:50.950 --> 00:14:53.389 do you have something here? Nope, we've got to 00:14:53.389 --> 00:14:56.129 move along. Move along, okay. Wayne? Thanks for 00:14:56.129 --> 00:14:59.590 having us and happy Easter. Happy Easter to you 00:14:59.590 --> 00:15:00.990 too. Thank you very much for being on the program. 00:15:01.240 --> 00:15:03.399 All right, we'll be right back in just a moment 00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:06.000 after this break with Mark Harris, author of 00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:08.679 Five Came Back, a story of Hollywood in the Second 00:15:08.679 --> 00:15:13.740 World War. Are they Andrew's sisters? Yeah. Yeah, 00:15:13.740 --> 00:15:18.620 we're back on Veterans Radio and I was all excited 00:15:18.620 --> 00:15:20.639 about having this guest on the program and I 00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:22.279 was looking through the music that we have for 00:15:22.279 --> 00:15:25.519 World War II. all these songs that my my mom 00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:27.740 would play and my dad and she my mom and dad 00:15:27.740 --> 00:15:30.279 would dance dance we dance in the dining room 00:15:30.279 --> 00:15:33.279 another living room and uh and he my brother 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:35.919 folks and then we did the my family did the same 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:38.799 thing we danced so they were everywhere but anyway 00:15:38.799 --> 00:15:41.460 so folks i want to welcome mark harris to veterans 00:15:41.460 --> 00:15:43.820 radio is the author of five came back a story 00:15:43.820 --> 00:15:46.940 of hollywood and the second world war the story 00:15:46.940 --> 00:15:49.960 of five Hollywood directors who decided that 00:15:49.960 --> 00:15:51.980 America had a good story to sell and they wanted 00:15:51.980 --> 00:15:54.379 to sell it. So Mark, welcome to Veterans Radio. 00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:58.340 Thanks so much for having me. I'm really excited 00:15:58.340 --> 00:16:02.059 to talk to you about this book and I guess the 00:16:02.059 --> 00:16:04.419 thing that I found so fascinating was at the 00:16:04.419 --> 00:16:07.720 beginning was all of the intrigue and everything 00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:11.440 that was going on in the country prior to Pearl 00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:14.200 Harbor. Could you talk a little bit about how 00:16:14.200 --> 00:16:16.919 these famous directors, and as we mentioned their 00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:18.919 names, I think most of our audience will recognize 00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:22.360 them, how they decided to make this jump to work 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:26.100 for the military. Sure. Well, the book is about 00:16:26.100 --> 00:16:29.580 these five directors, William Wyler, John Ford, 00:16:29.860 --> 00:16:33.440 George Stevens, John Huston, and Frank Capra, 00:16:33.860 --> 00:16:37.139 who by the time of Pearl Harbor were five of 00:16:37.139 --> 00:16:39.139 the biggest directors in Hollywood, and they 00:16:39.139 --> 00:16:43.100 all Accepted officers commissions in the army 00:16:43.100 --> 00:16:47.620 or in fourth case joined the Navy to leave Hollywood 00:16:47.620 --> 00:16:51.159 for the next three or four years and become documentary 00:16:51.159 --> 00:16:55.179 makers or Propagandists which was not really 00:16:55.179 --> 00:16:59.039 a dirty word back then For the war effort at 00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:02.000 the invitation of the War Department Well, I 00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:04.079 know that Capra and some of the other ones were 00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:06.559 motivated by the propaganda that the Nazis were 00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:10.390 putting out They were. Capra was called to Washington 00:17:10.390 --> 00:17:13.650 DC by George Marshall. Capra was really meant 00:17:13.650 --> 00:17:16.549 to be the kind of hub of the whole operation. 00:17:16.670 --> 00:17:18.950 The other directors would go around the world, 00:17:19.190 --> 00:17:21.529 basically, filming the war, but Capra would be 00:17:21.529 --> 00:17:24.170 put in charge of making what were then called 00:17:24.170 --> 00:17:28.269 morale films, the Why We Fight series of seven 00:17:28.269 --> 00:17:31.569 one -hour films that was intended not for public 00:17:31.569 --> 00:17:35.309 consumption, but to be shown to new recruits. 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:38.420 He was asked to make these movies, but he had 00:17:38.420 --> 00:17:41.460 almost no budget to do it because the War Department 00:17:41.460 --> 00:17:44.180 wasn't going to spend, you know, precious resources 00:17:44.180 --> 00:17:48.759 on movies. So he saw some Nazi propaganda films, 00:17:48.759 --> 00:17:51.420 including Triumph of the Will, at the Museum 00:17:51.420 --> 00:17:54.240 of Modern Art in New York and got the really 00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:57.799 brilliant idea, sort of a moment where necessity 00:17:57.799 --> 00:18:00.960 is the mother of invention, to... Take all of 00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:03.519 these Axis propaganda films that had been seized 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:06.279 by the Treasury Department and use that footage 00:18:06.279 --> 00:18:09.940 in these Why We Fight films to show young Americans, 00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:12.839 18, 19, 20 years old, what the enemy was up to. 00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:17.559 Yeah, that was, there was a lot of resistance 00:18:17.559 --> 00:18:21.059 to getting involved in World War II at this time. 00:18:21.539 --> 00:18:23.619 And in fact, that film that you were talking 00:18:23.619 --> 00:18:27.009 about, The triumph of the will that was being 00:18:27.009 --> 00:18:30.809 shown around the United States to all of these 00:18:30.809 --> 00:18:34.390 pro -german groups Yes in New York City where 00:18:34.390 --> 00:18:37.549 I live there was a movie theater right in Manhattan 00:18:37.549 --> 00:18:41.569 on 86th Street that was known as a pro -nazi 00:18:41.569 --> 00:18:44.329 movie theater and would routinely up until the 00:18:44.329 --> 00:18:47.730 beginning of the war show Nazi propaganda to 00:18:47.730 --> 00:18:52.289 the German Emigre audience in that neighborhood 00:18:52.289 --> 00:18:55.970 and there was By no means unanimity about the 00:18:55.970 --> 00:18:59.750 war. In fact, just before Pearl Harbor, Washington 00:18:59.750 --> 00:19:03.009 held hearings where the heads of all the movie 00:19:03.009 --> 00:19:05.690 studios were ordered to come and account for 00:19:05.690 --> 00:19:08.630 themselves because they were being accused of 00:19:08.630 --> 00:19:12.950 creating interventionist propaganda. In other 00:19:12.950 --> 00:19:15.089 words, they were being accused of trying to drag 00:19:15.089 --> 00:19:17.490 America into the war for their own interests. 00:19:18.569 --> 00:19:21.529 The isolationist strain in America, both in Washington 00:19:21.529 --> 00:19:25.390 and in the the population was really considerable 00:19:25.390 --> 00:19:28.509 right up until Pearl Harbor. Well, I was interested 00:19:28.509 --> 00:19:31.190 in, at the beginning of the book, when you're 00:19:31.190 --> 00:19:34.589 talking about these directors and some of the 00:19:34.589 --> 00:19:36.950 movies that they were making, especially Capra 00:19:36.950 --> 00:19:42.470 with his, you know, Mr. D's and Mr. You know, 00:19:42.650 --> 00:19:45.809 meet John Doe and so on and so forth that he's 00:19:45.809 --> 00:19:48.069 making, kind of all these idealistic. In fact, 00:19:48.069 --> 00:19:49.750 you know, Capra didn't really want anything to 00:19:49.750 --> 00:19:52.130 do with going to war. It sounded like at the 00:19:52.130 --> 00:19:55.369 time. That's right. Capra's politics were really 00:19:55.369 --> 00:19:58.450 funny. And if you only knew his work from, for 00:19:58.450 --> 00:20:01.210 instance, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, you wouldn't 00:20:01.210 --> 00:20:05.390 necessarily guess that he was a conservative 00:20:05.390 --> 00:20:08.930 Republican. He boasted that he never voted for 00:20:08.930 --> 00:20:12.539 FDR in one of his four elections. He was really 00:20:12.539 --> 00:20:16.740 anti -labor union. It's funny because he had 00:20:16.740 --> 00:20:20.680 this populist reputation, but even though politically 00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:23.619 he was not always in agreement with Roosevelt, 00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:26.940 he was very impressed by him as a president and 00:20:26.940 --> 00:20:32.339 by a man and was totally convinced by Roosevelt's 00:20:32.339 --> 00:20:34.579 belief that we were going to have to fight this 00:20:34.579 --> 00:20:40.079 war. So really, from the time that Capra became 00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:46.289 an officer, He was 100 % on board with serving 00:20:46.289 --> 00:20:48.089 his country and serving the mission. There was 00:20:48.089 --> 00:20:51.349 never any wavering of his part. Well, we'll come 00:20:51.349 --> 00:20:54.190 back to Frank Capra. I want to go to John Ford. 00:20:54.230 --> 00:20:56.309 And all of us know John Ford from his Westerns 00:20:56.309 --> 00:21:00.190 more than anything else. He was credited with 00:21:00.190 --> 00:21:02.710 finding John Wayne, and he did Stagecoach, and 00:21:02.710 --> 00:21:07.390 he also did a lot of other very powerful films. 00:21:07.650 --> 00:21:11.650 But he enlisted in the Navy. Before anybody he 00:21:11.650 --> 00:21:14.509 did Ford was one of the first people in Hollywood 00:21:14.509 --> 00:21:18.329 to believe that Not only to believe that war 00:21:18.329 --> 00:21:22.470 was inevitable, but to believe that Filmmakers 00:21:22.470 --> 00:21:24.950 cameramen sound men editors were going to have 00:21:24.950 --> 00:21:28.230 a really vital role to play in the war Which 00:21:28.230 --> 00:21:31.089 is now we think you know well of course the war 00:21:31.089 --> 00:21:34.410 would be filmed But but you know if you think 00:21:34.410 --> 00:21:37.230 back to the beginning of World War two sound 00:21:37.230 --> 00:21:40.200 movie making uh... was only about ten or twelve 00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:43.940 years old so still you know a much newer medium 00:21:43.940 --> 00:21:47.339 to all of america then for instance the internet 00:21:47.339 --> 00:21:55.079 is to us now but forward had this idea camera 00:21:55.079 --> 00:21:57.220 crews were going to be necessary so all through 00:21:57.220 --> 00:22:01.039 nineteen forty one he sort of created this weekend 00:22:01.309 --> 00:22:04.769 naval reserve gentlemen's club where he got guys 00:22:04.769 --> 00:22:07.609 from the studios to come and basically drilled 00:22:07.609 --> 00:22:09.970 them and trained them in for instance what it 00:22:09.970 --> 00:22:12.750 would be like to have to develop film on a listing 00:22:12.750 --> 00:22:18.710 ship or or how to shoot a camera you know how 00:22:18.710 --> 00:22:22.089 to how to shoot film under wartime conditions 00:22:22.089 --> 00:22:26.190 and the idea was that if war started this would 00:22:26.190 --> 00:22:30.150 be a kind of useful reserve for the navy to have 00:22:30.150 --> 00:22:33.569 in fact They never became a reserve. They pretty 00:22:33.569 --> 00:22:36.329 much all went in as soon as war started, and 00:22:36.329 --> 00:22:38.670 they became really essential to the effort to 00:22:38.670 --> 00:22:42.289 record the war. But Ford actually left Hollywood 00:22:42.289 --> 00:22:45.230 three months before Pearl Harbor. He essentially 00:22:45.230 --> 00:22:47.569 stopped working as a movie director and joined 00:22:47.569 --> 00:22:50.750 the Navy. I find it fascinating that the people 00:22:50.750 --> 00:22:53.930 at the time had the foresight to start putting 00:22:53.930 --> 00:22:56.190 these whole organizations together, not just 00:22:56.190 --> 00:22:58.450 the Navy, but also the Army, the Department of 00:22:58.450 --> 00:23:01.759 Defense. There were a lot of conflicts of who 00:23:01.759 --> 00:23:04.200 controlled what, and it took them a long time 00:23:04.200 --> 00:23:06.619 to get it all straightened out, didn't it? Yeah, 00:23:06.700 --> 00:23:09.920 a lot of them. Capra, I know, said that working 00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:12.500 for movie studios and fighting with the studio 00:23:12.500 --> 00:23:15.700 heads was very good preparation for him in battling 00:23:15.700 --> 00:23:19.539 war department bureaucracy, because it took six 00:23:19.539 --> 00:23:23.319 months or so to decide whether this was a propaganda 00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:25.519 effort or a war effort or who would be in control 00:23:25.519 --> 00:23:28.970 of it. And while that was being fought out, The 00:23:28.970 --> 00:23:32.390 directors just sort of rolled ahead and did what 00:23:32.390 --> 00:23:34.930 they wanted and kind of made their own plans. 00:23:35.849 --> 00:23:38.190 I was interested in a first couple of films that 00:23:38.190 --> 00:23:40.049 some of these people, I guess I'm jumping around 00:23:40.049 --> 00:23:41.930 here a little bit with you. We're talking with 00:23:41.930 --> 00:23:44.089 Mark Harris, he's the author of Five Came Back, 00:23:44.210 --> 00:23:46.950 a story of Hollywood and the Second World War. 00:23:47.750 --> 00:23:50.029 And I think it was John Huston, you can correct 00:23:50.029 --> 00:23:52.170 me on this, we've got a couple of minutes. He 00:23:52.170 --> 00:23:54.970 went in and he had to make these training films. 00:23:55.339 --> 00:23:57.500 And for those of us that have been in the military, 00:23:57.640 --> 00:23:59.579 some of these training films, especially about 00:23:59.579 --> 00:24:03.339 the spreading of social diseases. What to watch 00:24:03.339 --> 00:24:07.079 out for when you go into town. Yeah, exactly. 00:24:07.220 --> 00:24:09.660 That was actually John Ford. That was his very, 00:24:09.660 --> 00:24:13.019 very first assignment. No relation to the auto, 00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:17.140 folks. Let's not cut off our sponsorship here, 00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:23.680 right? But anyway, he had to make a graphic film 00:24:23.680 --> 00:24:26.359 about the spread of social diseases, right? He 00:24:26.359 --> 00:24:29.619 did, and it's funny because as opposed to someone 00:24:29.619 --> 00:24:32.980 like John Huston who had a girl in every port 00:24:32.980 --> 00:24:35.859 and sort of saw the war as a big adventure, Ford 00:24:35.859 --> 00:24:39.720 was extremely prudish and didn't talk about sexual 00:24:39.720 --> 00:24:41.819 relations or anything like that at all, didn't 00:24:41.819 --> 00:24:44.819 make those jokes. And for him to have to oversee 00:24:44.819 --> 00:24:49.339 the most graphic thing, And if anybody is curious, 00:24:49.339 --> 00:24:51.359 by the way, about any of these movies, I should 00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:54.480 say that they're all available on the internet, 00:24:54.539 --> 00:24:57.839 on YouTube, for free. You can stream them. And 00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:00.279 most of them are quite short, but Ford later 00:25:00.279 --> 00:25:03.079 said that after he finished making this film, 00:25:03.099 --> 00:25:05.839 which was called Sex Hygiene, he left the room 00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:08.880 and threw up. He was so horrified by it. And 00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:11.099 the way he describes it in the book, it's very 00:25:11.099 --> 00:25:15.160 graphic. of what these various diseases do to 00:25:15.160 --> 00:25:20.519 a young man. So don't go into town on that. Again, 00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:23.299 we're talking with Mark Harris, author of Five 00:25:23.299 --> 00:25:25.200 Came Back, a Story of Hollywood in the Second 00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:27.380 World War. If you'd like to ask a question, and 00:25:27.380 --> 00:25:29.619 we're coming up on a break in about 30 seconds, 00:25:30.059 --> 00:25:32.200 you can give us a call here at Veterans Radio 00:25:32.200 --> 00:25:36.819 at 734 -822 -1600 or you can call us toll free 00:25:36.819 --> 00:25:43.599 at 844 -838 -1600. Some of you out there, I know, 00:25:44.220 --> 00:25:46.579 were alive during World War II. Maybe you were 00:25:46.579 --> 00:25:48.319 children. Maybe you saw some of these films, 00:25:48.359 --> 00:25:51.000 especially the Why We Fight things. I think those 00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:53.599 films are fascinating. And YouTube is a great 00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:56.980 invention. And I encourage people to go to YouTube 00:25:56.980 --> 00:25:59.880 and watch these films after our program. So we'll 00:25:59.880 --> 00:26:01.960 be right back after taking this break. You are 00:26:01.960 --> 00:26:05.319 listening to Veterans Radio. Thank you. I remember 00:26:05.319 --> 00:26:07.880 hearing that one in the house, too. No, not that 00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:11.390 one. Was that Doris Day? I don't remember exactly 00:26:11.390 --> 00:26:14.309 who that one was. I'll have to get my associate, 00:26:14.589 --> 00:26:17.430 Derek, to figure out who that one was. But we're 00:26:17.430 --> 00:26:20.470 back here on Veterans Radio, and you just heard 00:26:20.470 --> 00:26:24.170 a little spot for Conway truckload. And I just 00:26:24.170 --> 00:26:26.609 wanted to remind our listeners out there, if 00:26:26.609 --> 00:26:29.109 you know of companies that are hiring veterans 00:26:29.109 --> 00:26:32.089 or have special hiring programs for veterans, 00:26:32.490 --> 00:26:35.089 let us know. Contact us at Veterans Radio. You 00:26:35.089 --> 00:26:38.390 can go to our website, veteransradio .net. Click 00:26:38.390 --> 00:26:41.150 on sponsorship. and let us know who these people 00:26:41.150 --> 00:26:43.529 are and we'll get them on the program to talk 00:26:43.529 --> 00:26:46.910 about their programs for hiring vets. In fact, 00:26:46.990 --> 00:26:52.170 next weekend we have a representative of the 00:26:52.170 --> 00:26:54.430 United States Chamber of Commerce coming on to 00:26:54.430 --> 00:26:57.049 talk about their Hire the Heroes program. So 00:26:57.049 --> 00:26:59.410 we really appreciate all these corporations that 00:26:59.410 --> 00:27:01.589 are putting together these special, special programs 00:27:01.589 --> 00:27:04.529 to hire these veterans because that's what Veterans 00:27:04.529 --> 00:27:06.450 Radio is all about. As my partner told me the 00:27:06.450 --> 00:27:08.970 other day, it's about the veterans. And that's 00:27:08.970 --> 00:27:10.809 what we want to do. We want to keep those words 00:27:10.809 --> 00:27:13.329 going so we can keep these people, these men 00:27:13.329 --> 00:27:16.150 and women, get them good jobs at good pay so 00:27:16.150 --> 00:27:17.690 they can find their way back into... They're 00:27:17.690 --> 00:27:20.529 out there. No, great jobs. Yeah, there's both. 00:27:21.329 --> 00:27:24.190 We just got to bring that together. Get that 00:27:24.190 --> 00:27:26.690 synapsis on. Synapsis. That's something that 00:27:26.690 --> 00:27:28.730 we're going to be talking about later on because 00:27:28.730 --> 00:27:30.549 toward the end of the book, our guest Mark Harris 00:27:30.549 --> 00:27:34.349 talks about some of the transition problems that 00:27:34.349 --> 00:27:38.000 these directors had. after being in World War 00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:40.299 II and coming back and trying to get back into 00:27:40.299 --> 00:27:42.500 that Hollywood thing. So Mark, I'm sorry to get 00:27:42.500 --> 00:27:46.099 off on my little tangent there, but you mentioned, 00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:49.619 or I want to go to John Ford again, after, just 00:27:49.619 --> 00:27:56.259 a second Robert. Okay. After Pearl Harbor, John 00:27:56.259 --> 00:28:00.599 Ford was sent out to Midway, and this is something 00:28:00.599 --> 00:28:02.920 we have covered on our program quite a lot, the 00:28:02.920 --> 00:28:04.519 Battle of Midway. Could you tell us a little 00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:06.980 bit about what he found there and and what he 00:28:06.980 --> 00:28:10.240 was able to accomplish yeah it was a really remarkable 00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:13.119 episode uh... in that for didn't even know what 00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:15.779 he was being taken to until he got to midway 00:28:15.779 --> 00:28:18.220 even when he got there he assumed that he was 00:28:18.220 --> 00:28:21.259 being asked to make uh... and nature documentary 00:28:21.259 --> 00:28:24.579 about life on a remote you know pacific outpost 00:28:24.579 --> 00:28:27.539 and uh... only then would be told that uh... 00:28:27.539 --> 00:28:30.920 an attack was imminent that the american forces 00:28:30.920 --> 00:28:33.160 were prepared for it and that he was going to 00:28:33.160 --> 00:28:35.640 be asked starting very very early in the morning 00:28:35.640 --> 00:28:39.700 to stand on the roof power station and film the 00:28:39.700 --> 00:28:43.160 japanese enemy planes flying overhead and uh... 00:28:43.160 --> 00:28:47.500 the american response and um... ford and uh... 00:28:47.500 --> 00:28:49.940 to very junior cameraman that he brought with 00:28:49.940 --> 00:28:53.359 them uh... filmed uh... film the battle of more 00:28:53.359 --> 00:28:55.700 film you know what the pieces of the battle that 00:28:55.700 --> 00:28:57.799 they could see from their various vantage point 00:28:57.799 --> 00:29:00.400 and the movie that resulted this film called 00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:03.720 the battle of midway First of all, made Ford 00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:07.339 a national hero because he literally filmed until 00:29:07.339 --> 00:29:10.660 a piece of shrapnel knocked the film loose from 00:29:10.660 --> 00:29:13.400 the camera and the camera out of his hand, but 00:29:13.400 --> 00:29:16.140 he was able to save it. He turned it into an 00:29:16.140 --> 00:29:18.480 18 -minute movie, which was the first time that 00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:23.000 American home front audiences had seen any sign 00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:25.579 that the war in the Pacific was starting to turn. 00:29:25.849 --> 00:29:29.829 and starting to go the way of the allies. And 00:29:29.829 --> 00:29:33.990 that movie was shown eventually in three quarters 00:29:33.990 --> 00:29:39.630 of all of the movie theaters in the United States. 00:29:39.750 --> 00:29:43.670 It was the first documentary film to show Americans 00:29:43.670 --> 00:29:46.450 in actual combat. It was the first time people 00:29:46.450 --> 00:29:50.509 got to see images of the war on color film, which 00:29:50.509 --> 00:29:53.549 was really unusual back then. Color was more 00:29:53.549 --> 00:29:56.390 reserved for fantasies and musicals and spectacles. 00:29:57.029 --> 00:30:00.130 So it really was kind of for many Americans the 00:30:00.130 --> 00:30:02.930 first movie glimpse of what the war actually 00:30:02.930 --> 00:30:05.970 looked like and Ford was behind it. I found it 00:30:05.970 --> 00:30:07.269 fascinating because that was one of the ones 00:30:07.269 --> 00:30:12.609 I went and looked at on YouTube and it was so 00:30:12.609 --> 00:30:14.650 graphic in some standpoints that they kind of 00:30:14.650 --> 00:30:16.250 had to clean it up a little bit because they 00:30:16.250 --> 00:30:18.369 didn't think that the American audience was prepared 00:30:18.369 --> 00:30:22.630 to see what was really going on. Well, I think 00:30:22.630 --> 00:30:25.289 that, you know, one thing about color for news, 00:30:25.329 --> 00:30:27.650 it was so unusual that they wondered if, you 00:30:27.650 --> 00:30:31.930 know, a big yellow and orange fireball with black 00:30:31.930 --> 00:30:34.430 smoke trailing out of it against this brilliant 00:30:34.430 --> 00:30:37.630 blue sky, you know, you see some of the most 00:30:37.630 --> 00:30:42.890 graphic bombing of that battle and the narration, 00:30:42.890 --> 00:30:45.849 which is pretty dominant in the movie, goes silent 00:30:45.849 --> 00:30:48.089 for several minutes. And then the first thing 00:30:48.089 --> 00:30:50.710 you hear when the narrator returns is his voice 00:30:50.710 --> 00:30:54.359 saying, Yes, this really happened. And it's almost 00:30:54.359 --> 00:30:58.119 as if he had to tell American audiences, you 00:30:58.119 --> 00:31:01.059 know, it's okay. You can believe your eyes. What 00:31:01.059 --> 00:31:03.500 we're showing you is real. I would encourage 00:31:03.500 --> 00:31:06.819 people to go and watch it. Was Walter Houston 00:31:06.819 --> 00:31:09.299 one of the narrators? Because I know that Henry 00:31:09.299 --> 00:31:12.039 Fonda was involved. Henry Fonda and Jane Darwell, 00:31:12.220 --> 00:31:15.119 who were the son and the mother in The Grapes 00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:17.720 of Wrath, which Ford had just made the year before, 00:31:18.380 --> 00:31:21.849 were voices in it. And then there were two other 00:31:21.849 --> 00:31:23.849 voices. I'm not sure that Walter Houston was 00:31:23.849 --> 00:31:27.329 one of the voices. There's a very sort of serious, 00:31:27.670 --> 00:31:29.410 it's not Walter Houston actually, it's Donald 00:31:29.410 --> 00:31:32.390 Crist who was the father in How Green Was My 00:31:32.390 --> 00:31:37.630 Valley, another Ford film, and then a young director 00:31:37.630 --> 00:31:39.849 actually used as a voiceover named Irving Pichel. 00:31:40.150 --> 00:31:42.390 So it's an interesting movie because there's 00:31:42.390 --> 00:31:45.230 four voices kind of competing for your attention. 00:31:45.349 --> 00:31:48.109 Two of them are straight up narrators and two 00:31:48.109 --> 00:31:51.329 of them are almost like meant to be two people 00:31:51.329 --> 00:31:54.069 sitting next to you in the audience as if you 00:31:54.069 --> 00:31:56.490 were listening to them comment excitedly on what 00:31:56.490 --> 00:32:00.170 they were seeing on screen. Yeah, it's a great 00:32:00.170 --> 00:32:02.049 little film to watch because you can see the 00:32:02.049 --> 00:32:04.349 camera shaking and that was the other thing is 00:32:04.349 --> 00:32:07.750 that he was so close to the bombing that you 00:32:07.750 --> 00:32:11.369 could feel the vibrations of that. You had a 00:32:11.369 --> 00:32:13.430 question? Yeah, well it's not a question. I have 00:32:13.430 --> 00:32:16.130 a comment, Mark, and you can comment on this 00:32:16.130 --> 00:32:20.859 because What I see, and I still like today, is 00:32:20.859 --> 00:32:22.900 that the way it was shot. I like the black and 00:32:22.900 --> 00:32:28.039 white more. I love the contrasting. And you got 00:32:28.039 --> 00:32:30.960 to see the action straight. I mean, that was 00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:33.460 it. That was what was really going on almost 00:32:33.460 --> 00:32:36.640 in real time. But yet, when it came to the movies, 00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:44.920 it was contrived. The Japanese, no, there's no 00:32:44.920 --> 00:32:50.049 side. Right. There was a sands of Iwo Jima while 00:32:50.049 --> 00:32:52.430 there were guys talking in a foxhole the Japanese 00:32:52.430 --> 00:32:56.210 just don't jump in or what they slither Like 00:32:56.210 --> 00:32:59.589 snakes and slither over the logs and slither 00:32:59.589 --> 00:33:02.609 down Kill these guys and slither they didn't 00:33:02.609 --> 00:33:06.190 jump up and run out which most 99 % of the world 00:33:06.190 --> 00:33:09.869 would do they slithered back out and Then there 00:33:09.869 --> 00:33:13.390 was the other movie about the CBs the fighting 00:33:13.390 --> 00:33:17.109 CBs with William Frawley He's an Irishman, and 00:33:17.109 --> 00:33:20.630 a lovable Irishman from Boston, and he's singing 00:33:20.630 --> 00:33:25.289 an Irish lullaby when a Japanese sniper buck 00:33:25.289 --> 00:33:28.589 teethed the glasses, the whole thing, puts a 00:33:28.589 --> 00:33:33.829 bullet in him. Now, that's a bit contrived, rather 00:33:33.829 --> 00:33:40.869 than the realism that you saw with the newsreel 00:33:40.869 --> 00:33:45.009 -type footages. Comment on that contrast that 00:33:45.009 --> 00:33:50.150 Hollywood was I Mean when we were kids and we 00:33:50.150 --> 00:33:54.130 saw that we hated the Japs bad This is one of 00:33:54.130 --> 00:33:57.250 the really interesting things I Learned in the 00:33:57.250 --> 00:33:59.170 course of doing the research for the book that 00:33:59.170 --> 00:34:02.710 when you hear about Propaganda and you hear that 00:34:02.710 --> 00:34:06.650 the War Department Told Hollywood what kind of 00:34:06.650 --> 00:34:09.289 things to put in their movies you kind of automatically 00:34:09.289 --> 00:34:11.630 think well that must have been that must have 00:34:11.630 --> 00:34:13.949 been bad, like the War Department must have been 00:34:13.949 --> 00:34:17.449 sort of pursuing their own ends, and filmmakers 00:34:17.449 --> 00:34:20.329 may have said like, well, we want to show this, 00:34:21.010 --> 00:34:22.929 and the War Department would have said, well, 00:34:22.989 --> 00:34:25.010 no, no, no, you can only show it this way. But 00:34:25.010 --> 00:34:27.750 in fact, what you're talking about in terms of 00:34:27.750 --> 00:34:33.130 the depiction of Japanese enemy fighters, that 00:34:33.130 --> 00:34:35.829 was a moment where the War Department was actually... 00:34:35.869 --> 00:34:38.289 sort of ahead of hollywood in what they wanted 00:34:38.289 --> 00:34:40.829 on screen it was hollywood's instinct to show 00:34:40.829 --> 00:34:44.110 these guys and often refer to them not even as 00:34:44.110 --> 00:34:47.429 human i mean that the worst of those uh... depictions 00:34:47.429 --> 00:34:49.989 and what were then called hate pictures uh... 00:34:49.989 --> 00:34:52.269 made during the war movies like blood on the 00:34:52.269 --> 00:34:56.050 fun uh... or behind the the rising sun uh... 00:34:56.050 --> 00:34:58.369 they would refer to the japanese not just soldiers 00:34:58.369 --> 00:35:04.380 but people as rats as dogs as monkeys the war 00:35:04.380 --> 00:35:07.000 department started putting considerable pressure 00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:10.380 on hollywood not to do that they they said you 00:35:10.380 --> 00:35:13.699 know we are going to win this war eventually 00:35:13.699 --> 00:35:18.260 and uh... did we're going to have peace and probably 00:35:18.260 --> 00:35:20.980 uh... we're going to have peace and have to have 00:35:20.980 --> 00:35:23.760 some kind of relationship with hero he though 00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:25.980 we certainly don't expect them to be killed in 00:35:25.980 --> 00:35:33.239 this war and you have to start you know depicting 00:35:33.239 --> 00:35:36.039 the Japanese, not the enemies, but the Japanese 00:35:36.039 --> 00:35:38.039 as human beings. I mean, one other big problem 00:35:38.039 --> 00:35:41.380 in Hollywood movies at the time was a widespread 00:35:41.380 --> 00:35:45.119 tendency to depict Japanese Americans all as 00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:48.059 double agents. And that was something that the 00:35:48.059 --> 00:35:51.119 War Department really objected to, but for their 00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:54.119 own purposes. They objected to it because they 00:35:54.119 --> 00:35:56.780 had, you know, tens of thousands of Japanese 00:35:56.780 --> 00:36:00.119 Americans in internment camps, and for a while, 00:36:00.329 --> 00:36:04.190 What they had been planning to do was resettle 00:36:04.190 --> 00:36:10.030 those internees in different towns and cities 00:36:10.030 --> 00:36:12.389 and villages throughout the South and the West. 00:36:12.710 --> 00:36:15.630 You know, not too many to a town, but just sort 00:36:15.630 --> 00:36:18.730 of scatter them all over the place. And they 00:36:18.730 --> 00:36:22.429 felt that if Japanese Americans were depicted 00:36:22.429 --> 00:36:25.110 by Hollywood as being dangerous and untrustworthy, 00:36:25.409 --> 00:36:30.239 that no towns in America would accept them. It's 00:36:30.239 --> 00:36:32.280 really interesting to see what Hollywood did, 00:36:32.440 --> 00:36:34.880 what Hollywood was pressured not to do, and what 00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:37.940 the motives behind that pressure were. Well, 00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:40.400 there's a lot of this, again, in the book. I 00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:42.739 encourage people to read this, because you address 00:36:42.739 --> 00:36:45.579 this subject, I think, really well. I'm talking 00:36:45.579 --> 00:36:47.760 with Mark Harris here on Five Came Back, a story 00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:49.880 of Hollywood and the Second World War. We've 00:36:49.880 --> 00:36:52.360 got about 15 minutes to go. So I need to get 00:36:52.360 --> 00:36:55.789 into, let's talk about John Huston. and what 00:36:55.789 --> 00:36:58.630 he did. He was a well known, just actually a 00:36:58.630 --> 00:37:01.230 beginning director, but he's well known because 00:37:01.230 --> 00:37:05.389 he had just filmed, where did it go? The Multifalcon. 00:37:05.389 --> 00:37:07.610 The Multifalcon, that's right. So tell me a little 00:37:07.610 --> 00:37:10.690 bit about him. Right, well you're right. He was 00:37:10.690 --> 00:37:13.349 well known but he was just starting out. He was 00:37:13.349 --> 00:37:15.670 younger than the other directors and had just 00:37:15.670 --> 00:37:17.570 had his first breakthrough film. He had been 00:37:17.570 --> 00:37:19.730 working as a screenwriter mostly before then. 00:37:21.590 --> 00:37:24.269 Houston thought the war was going to be a big 00:37:24.269 --> 00:37:28.150 adventure. He probably gave less thought to the 00:37:28.150 --> 00:37:30.449 sort of patriotic side of it than maybe the other 00:37:30.449 --> 00:37:33.050 four guys I wrote about did. He thought it was 00:37:33.050 --> 00:37:35.769 going to be a lot of fun and went in and discovered 00:37:35.769 --> 00:37:40.190 that it really wasn't. Houston had a couple of 00:37:40.190 --> 00:37:42.170 really interesting experiences during the war. 00:37:42.250 --> 00:37:45.949 One was that he was assigned by CAPRA to make 00:37:45.949 --> 00:37:49.719 a documentary about the liberation uh... by the 00:37:49.719 --> 00:37:53.480 allies of an occupied italian village uh... and 00:37:53.480 --> 00:37:56.059 he got to the village after it had already been 00:37:56.059 --> 00:37:59.380 liberated the village was still abandoned and 00:37:59.380 --> 00:38:02.400 filled with uh... german you know tripwires and 00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:07.539 booby traps and so he re -staged the entire battle 00:38:07.539 --> 00:38:12.099 with the enthusiastic endorsement of the army 00:38:12.429 --> 00:38:15.210 And the resulting film, which was called The 00:38:15.210 --> 00:38:19.829 Battle of San Pietro, was passed off as documentary 00:38:19.829 --> 00:38:23.090 battle footage by the War Department. They even 00:38:23.090 --> 00:38:25.510 made up a story about how Houston and his men 00:38:25.510 --> 00:38:29.929 were so brave that they advanced in front of 00:38:29.929 --> 00:38:32.650 the first line so that they could then turn their 00:38:32.650 --> 00:38:36.329 cameras around and show the first set of troops 00:38:36.329 --> 00:38:39.090 advancing. Everything in the movie is completely 00:38:39.090 --> 00:38:42.710 staged. So that was a... a sort of rough moment 00:38:42.710 --> 00:38:46.889 in in war propaganda history. And then Houston 00:38:46.889 --> 00:38:49.530 had an extraordinary experience after the war 00:38:49.530 --> 00:38:53.730 when he was asked to make a movie about psychologically 00:38:53.730 --> 00:38:56.250 scarred veterans who were receiving psychiatric 00:38:56.250 --> 00:38:58.949 treatment in a veterans hospital. The purpose 00:38:58.949 --> 00:39:02.650 of this movie was to show that veterans could 00:39:02.650 --> 00:39:04.909 be cured really quickly and that American businesses 00:39:04.909 --> 00:39:08.900 could rehire them. But the movie that resulted, 00:39:08.920 --> 00:39:11.320 which is called Let There Be Light, was so upsetting 00:39:11.320 --> 00:39:15.239 that the War Department banned it for 35 years. 00:39:18.559 --> 00:39:21.079 And Houston thought he had done a good job, and 00:39:21.079 --> 00:39:23.039 in many ways he really had, but the first part 00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:26.789 of the movie, which is where you see just how 00:39:26.789 --> 00:39:29.769 damaged and hurt and shaken up the veterans are 00:39:29.769 --> 00:39:32.010 was something the War Department really did not 00:39:32.010 --> 00:39:34.769 want the public to see. I've heard about this 00:39:34.769 --> 00:39:37.230 film and it's something that we're going to be 00:39:37.230 --> 00:39:39.969 talking about later on as we come up to one of 00:39:39.969 --> 00:39:43.130 our programs on post -traumatic stress later 00:39:43.130 --> 00:39:45.750 on this year. Okay, so we've got a couple of 00:39:45.750 --> 00:39:48.710 other well -known directors that we want to get 00:39:48.710 --> 00:39:51.210 to. So let's talk a little bit about William 00:39:51.210 --> 00:39:57.190 Wyler. William Wyler was He had just finally 00:39:57.190 --> 00:40:00.250 gotten up to the point where his 1942 picture 00:40:00.250 --> 00:40:03.710 Mrs. Murnover had been up for an Academy Award 00:40:03.710 --> 00:40:09.670 and he was a Jew who had left Germany, right? 00:40:10.170 --> 00:40:12.349 Well, it was actually it was a part of France 00:40:12.349 --> 00:40:15.349 that he grew up in that at various times either 00:40:15.349 --> 00:40:19.489 was or was not under German control So like when 00:40:19.489 --> 00:40:22.500 he was a teenager during the first war so he 00:40:22.500 --> 00:40:25.300 had the war was very personal to him and he he 00:40:25.300 --> 00:40:28.059 tried to get as many as twenty five or thirty 00:40:28.059 --> 00:40:31.460 uh... family members and friends from his town 00:40:31.460 --> 00:40:34.480 uh... out of europe and as war was approaching 00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:36.860 uh... but you know why were made this is never 00:40:36.860 --> 00:40:40.940 um... which was uh... huge huge uh... success 00:40:40.940 --> 00:40:43.900 in in in both america and england if it's the 00:40:43.900 --> 00:40:46.940 story of a uh... alone small english village 00:40:46.940 --> 00:40:50.690 that that kind of a rape is all of it snobberies 00:40:50.690 --> 00:40:54.130 and class distinctions and petty disputes to 00:40:54.130 --> 00:40:58.449 band together during World War II. The shooting 00:40:58.449 --> 00:41:01.929 of that movie took place about half before and 00:41:01.929 --> 00:41:05.690 half after Pearl Harbor. It was rewritten after 00:41:05.690 --> 00:41:08.090 Pearl Harbor, especially the ending, to make 00:41:08.090 --> 00:41:13.289 it much clearer that this village wasn't just 00:41:13.289 --> 00:41:15.389 something to be sympathetic to, it was meant 00:41:15.389 --> 00:41:17.949 to be an example for American audiences to follow. 00:41:18.280 --> 00:41:21.659 And then Weiler himself went in and filmed the 00:41:21.659 --> 00:41:24.239 great documentary of the air war, The Memphis 00:41:24.239 --> 00:41:29.219 Bell, and had a sort of extraordinary experience 00:41:29.219 --> 00:41:34.920 where he was filming in an unpressurized plane 00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:37.960 footage of the Italian coast for another documentary 00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:42.820 and in one stroke lost his hearing. He went completely 00:41:42.820 --> 00:41:48.059 deaf and 24 hours later was out of the army and 00:41:48.250 --> 00:41:51.590 essentially returned home a disabled veteran 00:41:51.590 --> 00:41:56.610 who thought his directing career as well as his 00:41:56.610 --> 00:42:00.610 army career was probably over. And he took all 00:42:00.610 --> 00:42:03.510 of that pain and frustration and uncertainty 00:42:03.510 --> 00:42:07.150 and poured it into his next movie, the first 00:42:07.150 --> 00:42:10.070 movie he made as a civilian after the war, which 00:42:10.070 --> 00:42:12.489 is The Best Years of Our Lives, which is one 00:42:12.489 --> 00:42:15.650 of the great American masterpieces, I think, 00:42:15.909 --> 00:42:20.199 about but especially about returning veterans. 00:42:20.940 --> 00:42:24.659 It's an extremely powerful movie for people that 00:42:24.659 --> 00:42:27.349 were looking at it probably in 1946. I think 00:42:27.349 --> 00:42:29.550 it might be a little bit different today, but 00:42:29.550 --> 00:42:32.130 even so, it's still a powerful film. You know, 00:42:32.210 --> 00:42:34.889 I've shown it to people in the last year in movie 00:42:34.889 --> 00:42:38.170 theaters since the book came out, and you'd be 00:42:38.170 --> 00:42:40.769 surprised at how emotional people still find 00:42:40.769 --> 00:42:43.510 it. On a big screen, it's still a really strong 00:42:43.510 --> 00:42:46.889 experience. Well, I think movies shown on a big 00:42:46.889 --> 00:42:48.989 screen always have much more emotional appeal 00:42:48.989 --> 00:42:52.989 than on a 32 -inch latch screen TV or whatever 00:42:52.989 --> 00:42:58.489 that happens to be. I want to get to George Stevens 00:42:58.489 --> 00:43:01.489 here also and talk about his experiences when 00:43:01.489 --> 00:43:07.989 he was asked to end up filming in Europe as the 00:43:07.989 --> 00:43:11.190 American troops were moving across. Stevens had 00:43:11.190 --> 00:43:14.590 an extraordinary wartime experience. He was one 00:43:14.590 --> 00:43:16.250 of the guys who signed up because he felt it 00:43:16.250 --> 00:43:18.949 was absolutely the patriotic thing to do. Very 00:43:18.949 --> 00:43:21.389 happy -go -lucky guy. He had started in Hollywood 00:43:21.389 --> 00:43:24.469 in the 1920s making Laurel and Hardy shorts. 00:43:25.410 --> 00:43:28.789 And Stevens was all over the place in the war. 00:43:28.969 --> 00:43:33.030 I mean, he was in North Africa. He filmed the 00:43:33.030 --> 00:43:35.429 liberation of Paris and the liberation of France. 00:43:36.130 --> 00:43:40.210 He was there with his camera crews in the Battle 00:43:40.210 --> 00:43:43.909 of the Bulge. He and Ford co -supervised the 00:43:43.909 --> 00:43:48.480 filming of D -Day. Probably the wartime footage 00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:50.920 that Stevens is most remembered for is that in 00:43:50.920 --> 00:43:54.300 May 1945, he and his men were the first American 00:43:54.300 --> 00:43:58.440 camera crew into Dachau just after it had been 00:43:58.440 --> 00:44:01.860 liberated. And, you know, we have to cast our 00:44:01.860 --> 00:44:05.300 minds back to a moment when we didn't really 00:44:05.300 --> 00:44:07.760 yet know what the Holocaust was and the extent 00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:10.440 of German atrocities was not yet fully known. 00:44:10.940 --> 00:44:13.019 And imagine what it was like for Stevens and 00:44:13.019 --> 00:44:15.320 his men to walk through the gates of that camp. 00:44:15.579 --> 00:44:19.900 and see what they saw. And almost immediately, 00:44:20.280 --> 00:44:22.960 Stevens realized that his job was no longer to 00:44:22.960 --> 00:44:26.239 create propaganda or to make a documentary, that 00:44:26.239 --> 00:44:29.739 he and his cameras were there to gather evidence. 00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:32.460 And in fact, that's exactly what he did. He filmed 00:44:32.460 --> 00:44:36.300 and filmed and filmed, and the footage that he 00:44:36.300 --> 00:44:40.480 compiled was used as evidence in the Nuremberg 00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:44.900 trials. The way that you describe it in your 00:44:44.900 --> 00:44:46.760 book, we're talking with Mark Harris, author 00:44:46.760 --> 00:44:48.900 of Five Came Back, a story of Hollywood and the 00:44:48.900 --> 00:44:54.219 Second World War. You can see how he was so affected 00:44:54.219 --> 00:44:57.179 by what he was seeing for the first time. In 00:44:57.179 --> 00:44:58.980 fact, I think one of the things you describe 00:44:58.980 --> 00:45:01.000 is he saw somebody but he didn't think it was 00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:05.280 a living person and he just couldn't believe 00:45:05.280 --> 00:45:07.519 it. And the people, of course, were so happy 00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:10.710 to see the American troops there. And he's the 00:45:10.710 --> 00:45:12.650 one that, you know, the pictures that you see 00:45:12.650 --> 00:45:15.570 of the Holocaust, of the bodies in the boxcars 00:45:15.570 --> 00:45:18.110 and in the crematoriums and so forth, many of 00:45:18.110 --> 00:45:20.429 those were taken by him. So you know that had 00:45:20.429 --> 00:45:22.730 to affect him for the rest of his life. Yes. 00:45:22.730 --> 00:45:24.989 I mean, from a movie perspective, when you look 00:45:24.989 --> 00:45:27.989 at Stevens' career, it's really interesting because 00:45:27.989 --> 00:45:31.769 he seems to be one kind of great director before 00:45:31.769 --> 00:45:34.110 the war and a different kind of great director 00:45:34.110 --> 00:45:35.909 after the war. I mean, before the war, he was 00:45:35.909 --> 00:45:39.269 famous for things like swing time and alice adams 00:45:39.269 --> 00:45:41.909 and woman of the year with heffernan tracy a 00:45:41.909 --> 00:45:45.269 lot of really light fun comedies after the war 00:45:45.269 --> 00:45:49.070 in the fifties he becomes the director of shane 00:45:49.070 --> 00:45:52.849 and a place in the sun and the diary of an frank 00:45:52.849 --> 00:45:57.530 and giant i mean really serious movies all drama 00:45:57.530 --> 00:46:01.329 he said that after what he saw it dot gov he 00:46:01.329 --> 00:46:04.030 felt that he would not ever be capable of making 00:46:04.030 --> 00:46:08.510 a comedy can and he never did You mentioned earlier 00:46:08.510 --> 00:46:13.369 that these directors covered the invasion of 00:46:13.369 --> 00:46:15.130 Normandy and so forth, but there were a lot of 00:46:15.130 --> 00:46:17.309 problems with that invasion of Normandy. Can 00:46:17.309 --> 00:46:20.210 you tell us about the physical demands that were 00:46:20.210 --> 00:46:22.489 there and what happened to them? Yeah, I mean 00:46:22.489 --> 00:46:25.510 it was an extraordinary idea to try to film this 00:46:25.510 --> 00:46:28.849 on a scale that the Army had certainly never 00:46:28.849 --> 00:46:32.269 done before. There were hundreds of cameras mounted 00:46:32.269 --> 00:46:36.780 to the the prowess of, you know, the the American 00:46:36.780 --> 00:46:41.519 and allied vessels. There were dozens of trained 00:46:41.519 --> 00:46:47.059 cameramen. About 90 % of the equipment and 90 00:46:47.059 --> 00:46:51.699 % of the footage was destroyed in the initial 00:46:51.699 --> 00:46:58.280 attack. That still left a lot, but of that remaining 00:46:58.280 --> 00:47:02.179 footage, the majority of it was considered much 00:47:02.280 --> 00:47:06.159 too bloody and frightening and unusable to be 00:47:06.159 --> 00:47:09.539 shown to american newsreel audiences who you 00:47:09.539 --> 00:47:12.380 know newsreels changed every weekend and american 00:47:12.380 --> 00:47:14.480 audiences were just frantic to get the first 00:47:14.480 --> 00:47:18.460 you know the first scenes from the the invasion 00:47:18.460 --> 00:47:21.679 uh... so what they saw with the stuff that was 00:47:21.679 --> 00:47:26.659 reasonable to see you have to wait almost i think 00:47:26.659 --> 00:47:29.739 fifty years uh... until steven spielberg made 00:47:29.739 --> 00:47:33.500 saving private ryan that the first 25 minutes 00:47:33.500 --> 00:47:38.780 of that movie, which is D -Day, that footage 00:47:38.780 --> 00:47:43.400 is largely based on the footage that Stevens 00:47:43.400 --> 00:47:46.639 helped oversee that was not shown originally 00:47:46.639 --> 00:47:50.559 because it was just too rough. And the beginning 00:47:50.559 --> 00:47:53.480 of that movie I thought was very rough. I thought 00:47:53.480 --> 00:47:55.530 it was hard to watch. So you can imagine, and 00:47:55.530 --> 00:47:58.630 that was 1998, so you can imagine how impossible 00:47:58.630 --> 00:48:03.969 it would have been, you know, in 1944 for people, 00:48:03.969 --> 00:48:07.510 you know, used to seeing fairly sanitized Hollywood 00:48:07.510 --> 00:48:10.789 movies to look at that. Well, as we come up toward 00:48:10.789 --> 00:48:12.730 the top of the hour when we start thinking about, 00:48:12.730 --> 00:48:15.750 you know, unfortunately wrapping this up, what 00:48:15.750 --> 00:48:17.889 would you say do you think was the overall effect 00:48:17.889 --> 00:48:20.369 that these directors had on the war movement 00:48:20.369 --> 00:48:23.429 for America? There's a short question for you. 00:48:24.280 --> 00:48:28.119 You know, I think they did two things. One is 00:48:28.119 --> 00:48:31.760 Capra very directly, you know, you didn't get 00:48:31.760 --> 00:48:35.300 into the army after a certain point without seeing 00:48:35.300 --> 00:48:39.239 those Why We Fight movies. So on a direct level, 00:48:39.699 --> 00:48:43.300 he helped to instill a sense of purpose and mission 00:48:43.300 --> 00:48:45.840 and patriotism in the American fighting man. 00:48:46.260 --> 00:48:49.539 But overall, I think what they did was something 00:48:49.539 --> 00:48:53.300 really, I mean, it was flawed and it was uneven, 00:48:53.300 --> 00:48:56.369 but At its best, it was very noble, which was 00:48:56.369 --> 00:49:00.949 to try to grapple with their instincts as patriots 00:49:00.949 --> 00:49:03.210 to help the war effort, with their instincts 00:49:03.210 --> 00:49:07.750 as directors to tell a good story, and with their 00:49:07.750 --> 00:49:11.030 instincts as men to tell the truth, and to kind 00:49:11.030 --> 00:49:14.010 of combine that into work that would bring home 00:49:14.010 --> 00:49:17.610 to the American public what this war looked like, 00:49:17.869 --> 00:49:21.030 felt like, sounded like, what its effect was 00:49:21.030 --> 00:49:23.780 on the soldiers. what we were trying to do. I 00:49:23.780 --> 00:49:27.739 mean, these weren't guys who were 18 or 19 or 00:49:27.739 --> 00:49:30.719 20 years old. They were between 35 and 45. So 00:49:30.719 --> 00:49:33.820 none of them had to do this. And they realized 00:49:33.820 --> 00:49:38.239 that what they could contribute to the war was 00:49:38.239 --> 00:49:42.380 clarity and storytelling. And that's what they 00:49:42.380 --> 00:49:45.199 tried to do. And so I do think it was a major 00:49:45.199 --> 00:49:48.199 part of the war effort to try to get the American 00:49:48.199 --> 00:49:50.119 people to understand what this war looked and 00:49:50.119 --> 00:49:53.659 felt like. Well, I've learned a lot from reading 00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:55.639 your book. And again, I encourage people to go 00:49:55.639 --> 00:49:59.099 out and get this. It's Mark Harris. It's Five 00:49:59.099 --> 00:50:01.119 Came Back, a story of Hollywood in the Second 00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:03.760 World War. I believe it's out in paperback now, 00:50:03.800 --> 00:50:06.159 is that correct? That's right, yes. Thank you. 00:50:06.500 --> 00:50:10.000 Well, I've got to promote my authors, especially 00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:13.360 when I have great stories like this. And I encourage 00:50:13.360 --> 00:50:15.960 people also to go to YouTube and look at the 00:50:15.960 --> 00:50:19.079 Why We Fight movies that are on there. I think 00:50:19.079 --> 00:50:22.119 you'll learn a lot about what was going on during 00:50:22.119 --> 00:50:25.820 the 1930s and 40s because they, you know, we 00:50:25.820 --> 00:50:29.159 didn't get into the details about this but Capra's 00:50:29.159 --> 00:50:31.659 really tried to explain why we were fighting 00:50:31.659 --> 00:50:33.780 the Japanese the way we were and the history 00:50:33.780 --> 00:50:36.820 of how Japan had taken over China and so forth 00:50:36.820 --> 00:50:39.179 and what Hitler had done and what Mussolini had 00:50:39.179 --> 00:50:41.860 done. It's a great history lesson for all of 00:50:41.860 --> 00:50:44.940 you out there and I encourage you to go out and 00:50:44.940 --> 00:50:47.360 purchase the book and check out all these movies. 00:50:48.880 --> 00:50:51.420 Thanks so much. Yeah, and you can also find Let 00:50:51.420 --> 00:50:53.380 There Be Light and The Battle of Midway in San 00:50:53.380 --> 00:50:56.199 Pietro on YouTube as well. I did. I also saw 00:50:56.199 --> 00:50:58.659 some cartoons from Disney and from Warner Brothers 00:50:58.659 --> 00:51:01.400 on there too. Right, those are great, the private 00:51:01.400 --> 00:51:04.440 snafu cartoons. They are and they're really, 00:51:04.760 --> 00:51:06.800 you'd be amazed that, you know, we think about 00:51:06.800 --> 00:51:10.460 stereotyping in it and like we talked about earlier 00:51:10.460 --> 00:51:13.320 and it's just, it's outrageous. Today people, 00:51:14.019 --> 00:51:15.900 both sides of the political aisle would be just 00:51:15.900 --> 00:51:19.420 so upset by those things. So Mark Harris, I want 00:51:19.420 --> 00:51:22.019 to thank you so much for being on Veterans Radio 00:51:22.019 --> 00:51:24.119 and I would love to have you back on again at 00:51:24.119 --> 00:51:25.780 some point and talk about some other things about 00:51:25.780 --> 00:51:28.739 movies and war. My pleasure. Thank you very much 00:51:28.739 --> 00:51:31.260 for being on the program. Thanks so much. All 00:51:31.260 --> 00:51:33.500 right, folks. That's another one in the can, 00:51:33.559 --> 00:51:38.300 as they say. There we go. That's a wrap. That's 00:51:38.300 --> 00:51:41.039 a wrap. I don't know what number this is. It's 00:51:41.039 --> 00:51:43.940 probably somewhere around 570 or something like 00:51:43.940 --> 00:51:45.980 that. Give or take. Give or take 20 or 30 of 00:51:45.980 --> 00:51:48.070 them. But I want to thank everybody for listening 00:51:48.070 --> 00:51:51.030 today. I want to thank our sponsors, Legal Helper 00:51:51.030 --> 00:51:54.190 Veterans and Conway Truckload for sponsoring 00:51:54.190 --> 00:51:57.230 the program. By the way, folks out there, we 00:51:57.230 --> 00:51:59.409 need some support from you also. We need you 00:51:59.409 --> 00:52:01.969 to go to our website, look on Support Veterans 00:52:01.969 --> 00:52:04.750 Radio. We've got some things that we want to 00:52:04.750 --> 00:52:06.670 try and do, and we need to start raising some 00:52:06.670 --> 00:52:08.730 funds to do that. So you'll be hearing more about 00:52:08.730 --> 00:52:11.010 our fundraising in the next couple of weeks. 00:52:11.070 --> 00:52:14.650 No checks too small, no checks too big. That's 00:52:14.650 --> 00:52:18.019 right. We'll send you a copy of our book, Vietnam 00:52:18.019 --> 00:52:21.079 Stories, the Best of Veterans Radio. And so we're 00:52:21.079 --> 00:52:22.679 going to get into our little music here, and 00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:25.519 then we'll be gone. And we'll be back next week, 00:52:25.599 --> 00:52:27.000 though, so we want to make sure that you tune 00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:29.820 in and listen to Veterans Radio. Until next week, 00:52:30.260 --> 00:52:31.559 you are dismissed.