WEBVTT 00:00:05.160 --> 00:00:09.000 All across America and around the world, this 00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:15.880 is Veterans Radio. This is Veterans Radio. And 00:00:15.880 --> 00:00:19.940 now, your host for today's program, Dale Throneberry. 00:00:25.800 --> 00:00:28.839 Welcome to Veterans Radio. My name is Dale Throneberry, 00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:33.039 CW2 type person, Army helicopter pilot, 1969. 00:00:33.820 --> 00:00:36.240 Oh my God, it's almost 50 years ago. It's hard 00:00:36.240 --> 00:00:39.659 to believe. Welcome to Veterans Radio. Spring 00:00:39.659 --> 00:00:43.020 has sprung in Michigan. We got over 60 degrees 00:00:43.020 --> 00:00:46.140 today. The snow has finally melted. It's a gorgeous 00:00:46.140 --> 00:00:49.560 weekend here in the Midwest and we are so excited 00:00:49.560 --> 00:00:51.700 to have you on our program. We've got a great 00:00:51.700 --> 00:00:54.320 program for you. We're going to be talking to 00:00:54.320 --> 00:00:57.100 an author of a book called Gravity. It's about 00:00:57.100 --> 00:00:59.420 a Tennessee National Guard unit that was sent 00:00:59.420 --> 00:01:02.609 to Iraq. It's a powerful, powerful. story and 00:01:02.609 --> 00:01:04.450 we're really excited to have the author Beth 00:01:04.450 --> 00:01:08.030 Underwood with us later on in the hour. As you 00:01:08.030 --> 00:01:10.829 know each week on Veterans Radio we've been really 00:01:10.829 --> 00:01:14.030 pushing the idea of hiring the veteran and so 00:01:14.030 --> 00:01:16.810 on today's program we've got another guest and 00:01:16.810 --> 00:01:19.030 this is from a really big organization so I'm 00:01:19.030 --> 00:01:21.950 really excited to have her on the program and 00:01:21.950 --> 00:01:24.109 before I talk with her her name is Jennifer Gearing 00:01:24.109 --> 00:01:27.030 and she is the Senior Director of Business and 00:01:27.030 --> 00:01:30.459 State Engagement for the Hiring Our Heroes program 00:01:30.459 --> 00:01:33.299 at the United States Chamber of Commerce Foundation. 00:01:33.659 --> 00:01:35.599 That's the United States Chamber of Commerce. 00:01:35.659 --> 00:01:39.099 That's the big one. And she is the senior director, 00:01:39.120 --> 00:01:41.879 as it says, of the Hiring Our Heroes program. 00:01:42.079 --> 00:01:44.640 She has been with the Chamber of Commerce since 00:01:44.640 --> 00:01:48.980 March of 2003. She's lived in Michigan. I just 00:01:48.980 --> 00:01:51.680 read that this morning. Finally read my PR piece 00:01:51.680 --> 00:01:54.680 I got. She was president of the Dearborn Area 00:01:54.680 --> 00:01:56.799 Chamber of Commerce in Michigan for over eight 00:01:56.799 --> 00:01:59.290 years. and she's a graduate of Bowling Green 00:01:59.290 --> 00:02:01.549 University. That's another Mac school so we like 00:02:01.549 --> 00:02:04.209 Bowling Green. And right now I want to welcome 00:02:04.209 --> 00:02:08.150 Jennifer Gearing to Veterans Radio. Thank you 00:02:08.150 --> 00:02:10.229 so much. It's great to be with you this afternoon. 00:02:10.569 --> 00:02:12.870 Thank you very much for taking the time out of 00:02:12.870 --> 00:02:15.150 a beautiful Sunday. I'm sure it's Sunday wherever 00:02:15.150 --> 00:02:18.110 you, where are you anyway? I'm in Washington 00:02:18.110 --> 00:02:21.009 D .C. and it is beautiful here today too. Spring 00:02:21.009 --> 00:02:23.930 has finally reached the Northern Virginia and 00:02:23.930 --> 00:02:27.009 D .C. area. It's exciting when the sun is out 00:02:27.009 --> 00:02:28.990 and, you know, you can go outside and just kind 00:02:28.990 --> 00:02:31.330 of take a deep breath and you don't, you know, 00:02:31.409 --> 00:02:35.129 it doesn't freeze your lungs. That's right. As 00:02:35.129 --> 00:02:37.370 we do have. Well Jennifer, as I've mentioned 00:02:37.370 --> 00:02:39.349 in your introduction, the reason that we have 00:02:39.349 --> 00:02:42.349 these organizations on Veterans Radio is because 00:02:42.349 --> 00:02:45.080 of all the... the amazing work that all of these 00:02:45.080 --> 00:02:48.479 corporations are doing, and I find out that the 00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:50.159 United States Chamber of Commerce Foundation 00:02:50.159 --> 00:02:52.919 also has a Hiring the Heroes program. Could you 00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:54.819 please tell us a little bit about your program? 00:02:55.639 --> 00:02:58.439 I'd be happy to. We just celebrated our four 00:02:58.439 --> 00:03:02.099 -year anniversary. The program was started by 00:03:02.099 --> 00:03:05.060 an individual who was employed by the U .S. Chamber 00:03:05.060 --> 00:03:08.300 of Commerce, a Marine who was traveling around 00:03:08.300 --> 00:03:11.259 the country with the CEO, Tom Donahue, and realized 00:03:11.259 --> 00:03:15.569 that employers really wanted to take a large 00:03:15.569 --> 00:03:19.389 role in employing our nation's veterans and military 00:03:19.389 --> 00:03:22.189 spouses and transitioning service members. So 00:03:22.189 --> 00:03:25.229 the program started organically with the idea 00:03:25.229 --> 00:03:27.889 of just having one hiring fair. And Dale, we're 00:03:27.889 --> 00:03:31.750 happy to report we've had over 870 hiring fairs 00:03:31.750 --> 00:03:33.729 in four years. That's about one per business 00:03:33.729 --> 00:03:36.979 day. But more importantly... We're getting folks 00:03:36.979 --> 00:03:40.020 hired. We've documented over 25 ,000 hired from 00:03:40.020 --> 00:03:44.060 our hiring fairs alone. And we have our goal 00:03:44.060 --> 00:03:48.240 set on collecting 500 ,000 hires through all 00:03:48.240 --> 00:03:50.759 of our partners and all of our programs by June 00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:54.120 of this year. Well, how are we doing? We're doing 00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:56.780 great. We're just over 400 ,000 right now. So 00:03:56.780 --> 00:04:02.180 we're on track for sure. Wow. So if I'm a veteran 00:04:02.180 --> 00:04:04.979 of Iraq, Afghanistan, and I'm looking for some 00:04:04.979 --> 00:04:08.419 help, How do I get help from the chamber? So 00:04:08.419 --> 00:04:11.759 we have a multitude of programs, events, and 00:04:11.759 --> 00:04:14.699 initiatives. And I'd like to point out that we 00:04:14.699 --> 00:04:16.660 serve transitioning service members, veterans, 00:04:16.759 --> 00:04:20.420 and military spouses, veterans of all eras. So 00:04:20.420 --> 00:04:22.959 we work with Vietnam vets, Korean vets, and I 00:04:22.959 --> 00:04:25.180 actually had a phone call from a World War II 00:04:25.180 --> 00:04:27.800 vet who had his sights set on being a greer at 00:04:27.800 --> 00:04:30.300 Walmart. So I did everything that I could to 00:04:30.300 --> 00:04:33.000 make that connection happen. But all of our programs 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:36.879 and events are accessible via the internet, HiringOurHeroes 00:04:36.879 --> 00:04:40.139 .org. We have a robust schedule of events, not 00:04:40.139 --> 00:04:42.480 only in communities across the country, but also 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:45.660 on major military installations. We'll have 20 00:04:45.660 --> 00:04:49.779 what we call transition summits on military installations. 00:04:50.060 --> 00:04:52.160 And actually three overseas this year will be 00:04:52.160 --> 00:04:56.100 in Japan, Korea, and Italy. But our digital programs 00:04:56.100 --> 00:05:00.930 include webinars for both employers and job seekers. 00:05:01.149 --> 00:05:06.769 We have resume translators and creators for job 00:05:06.769 --> 00:05:10.639 seekers, veterans and military spouses. And we 00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:12.860 have what's called Fast Track. It's a way to 00:05:12.860 --> 00:05:15.439 illustrate fast growing industries and fast growing 00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:18.819 communities. And then again, virtual hiring fairs. 00:05:19.300 --> 00:05:22.399 So veterans, service members who are serving 00:05:22.399 --> 00:05:24.860 overseas can connect virtually with employers 00:05:24.860 --> 00:05:26.980 back here in the states. And then of course what 00:05:26.980 --> 00:05:29.560 we call our brick and mortar hiring fairs in 00:05:29.560 --> 00:05:32.199 communities across the country. Wow, we're talking 00:05:32.199 --> 00:05:34.160 with Jennifer Geary and she's the Senior Director 00:05:34.160 --> 00:05:37.000 of the Hiring Our Heroes program at the United 00:05:37.000 --> 00:05:39.899 States Chamber of Commerce Foundation. And this 00:05:39.899 --> 00:05:42.319 kind of sounds like a clearinghouse for everyone. 00:05:42.379 --> 00:05:46.759 So if I run a smaller, large business and I want 00:05:46.759 --> 00:05:49.180 some help in setting up a Hire the Vets program, 00:05:49.420 --> 00:05:53.389 I can contact you too. Is that correct? You absolutely 00:05:53.389 --> 00:05:56.209 can. And what we did to help employers, small, 00:05:56.250 --> 00:05:58.990 medium, and large size employers all across the 00:05:58.990 --> 00:06:01.629 country and in various industries, we created 00:06:01.629 --> 00:06:04.069 what's called Employer Roadmap. And through our 00:06:04.069 --> 00:06:07.610 great partnership with USAA, we collected articles, 00:06:08.149 --> 00:06:12.149 research, best practices, and action plans and 00:06:12.149 --> 00:06:16.670 put them online at folks' fingertips 24 -7 in 00:06:16.670 --> 00:06:19.649 a really easy and digestible way. Now you can 00:06:19.649 --> 00:06:22.699 go out there and and comb the internet for information. 00:06:22.860 --> 00:06:25.660 You could look for days and download hundreds 00:06:25.660 --> 00:06:28.579 and hundreds of pages of information. What sets 00:06:28.579 --> 00:06:31.660 employer roadmap apart is we deliver it in a 00:06:31.660 --> 00:06:33.920 unique way. You tell us if you're a small, medium, 00:06:34.019 --> 00:06:36.939 or large size business, and if you're novice, 00:06:37.339 --> 00:06:39.800 competent, or proficient in the space. And based 00:06:39.800 --> 00:06:43.439 on one of those nine profiles, we deliver information 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:46.699 that's informative and relevant and timely for 00:06:46.699 --> 00:06:50.160 you. So if I'm talking with a 20 -year Air Force 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:52.459 veteran who's now the military recruiter for 00:06:52.459 --> 00:06:55.360 a Fortune 500 company, I'm not going to put him 00:06:55.360 --> 00:06:58.180 through military 101 like I would a new recruiter 00:06:58.180 --> 00:07:01.240 that just graduated from, let's say, Michigan 00:07:01.240 --> 00:07:03.319 State University. Yeah, one of those places. 00:07:03.939 --> 00:07:09.660 Okay. Well, it sounds fascinating and I love 00:07:09.660 --> 00:07:12.379 the idea that you're almost achieved your goal 00:07:12.379 --> 00:07:15.120 of half a million folks. That's a half a million 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:17.620 jobs out there and that's just through this one 00:07:17.620 --> 00:07:20.319 program and as our listeners are aware of we 00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:22.399 have been talking with a lot of different corporations 00:07:22.399 --> 00:07:25.459 every week about their veteran transition programs 00:07:25.459 --> 00:07:28.339 and colleges have their veteran transition program 00:07:28.339 --> 00:07:30.839 and I think it's such a great opportunity for 00:07:30.839 --> 00:07:33.060 this generation of veterans and as you pointed 00:07:33.060 --> 00:07:36.980 out also for older generation of veterans to 00:07:36.980 --> 00:07:40.459 find jobs you know if they need help in relocating 00:07:40.459 --> 00:07:43.680 or all these other things. So if we need help 00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:46.740 Or they need help. I got a job evidently every 00:07:46.740 --> 00:07:51.980 Sunday afternoon. Where would they go? Hiringourheroes 00:07:51.980 --> 00:07:55.180 .org. As I mentioned, all of our events and programs 00:07:55.180 --> 00:07:57.680 are there, housed on that portal. We also have 00:07:57.680 --> 00:08:00.680 a robust social media platform. So, you know, 00:08:00.779 --> 00:08:03.519 almost 400 ,000 followers on Facebook. We have 00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:06.860 an Instagram platform as well as Twitter. And 00:08:06.860 --> 00:08:10.860 we're, you know, just a click away. great team 00:08:10.860 --> 00:08:13.139 in Washington D .C. and folks spread actually 00:08:13.139 --> 00:08:15.680 out all across the country and were willing to 00:08:15.680 --> 00:08:18.699 help make those great connections between service 00:08:18.699 --> 00:08:21.879 members, spouses, and the employers. We've got 00:08:21.879 --> 00:08:24.920 a lot of really good work to do. You know, as 00:08:24.920 --> 00:08:29.060 I mentioned, 870 hiring fairs and almost 500 00:08:29.060 --> 00:08:31.540 ,000 hires, but we have more work to do. We have 00:08:31.540 --> 00:08:33.860 1 .5 million transitioning service members who 00:08:33.860 --> 00:08:36.399 will be... We'll be transitioning into civilian 00:08:36.399 --> 00:08:39.279 life in the next three to five years. And this 00:08:39.279 --> 00:08:41.379 really becomes an issue of workforce development. 00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:44.179 So we want to make sure that we have all those 00:08:44.179 --> 00:08:47.139 great resources at the fingertips of both, you 00:08:47.139 --> 00:08:50.139 know, the job seekers and employers alike. So 00:08:50.139 --> 00:08:53.179 is this one of the programs where you can, you 00:08:53.179 --> 00:08:55.179 pair up the veteran or do you kind of look at 00:08:55.179 --> 00:08:59.200 their experience in the military and translate 00:08:59.200 --> 00:09:03.669 it into civilian possibilities? We do. We have 00:09:03.669 --> 00:09:06.429 a great program. It's called the Personal Branding 00:09:06.429 --> 00:09:08.590 Resume Engine for veterans. And we have what's 00:09:08.590 --> 00:09:11.629 called Career Spark for military spouses. And 00:09:11.629 --> 00:09:14.110 we help them translate that experience. In the 00:09:14.110 --> 00:09:16.330 instance of a veteran, we help them take those 00:09:16.330 --> 00:09:21.169 MOS codes and their education and their awards 00:09:21.169 --> 00:09:24.210 and acknowledgments and put them into a resume 00:09:24.210 --> 00:09:27.529 that's easy to read for a civilian. And then 00:09:27.529 --> 00:09:30.309 for our military spouse population, It's that 00:09:30.309 --> 00:09:33.490 incredible volunteer experience, work experience, 00:09:33.950 --> 00:09:37.549 sometimes gaps in the resume because of PCSing 00:09:37.549 --> 00:09:41.250 and we help put a resume together for a military 00:09:41.250 --> 00:09:46.330 spouse that really showcases the great experience 00:09:46.330 --> 00:09:48.850 they have and the great values that they would 00:09:48.850 --> 00:09:52.409 bring to an employer as well. Wow, this is great. 00:09:52.409 --> 00:09:54.389 I was talking to a young veteran the other day 00:09:54.389 --> 00:09:56.470 and he just couldn't figure out how to put a 00:09:56.470 --> 00:09:58.409 resume together and now I've got a place to send 00:09:58.409 --> 00:10:01.279 him. Absolutely. Personal branding, resume engine, 00:10:01.519 --> 00:10:04.000 and career spark, both powered by our good friends 00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:07.779 at Toyota. And I should mention, everything that 00:10:07.779 --> 00:10:11.759 we do is free. So accessible, you know, we don't 00:10:11.759 --> 00:10:14.559 want to put any barriers in between our job seekers 00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:18.220 and employers, so we're committing to, we've 00:10:18.220 --> 00:10:20.440 committed to making sure that all of that is... 00:10:20.590 --> 00:10:23.549 All those resources are accessible. This is really 00:10:23.549 --> 00:10:25.690 exciting, Jennifer. Thank you very much for being 00:10:25.690 --> 00:10:27.870 on Veterans Radio. For all of you out there that 00:10:27.870 --> 00:10:30.750 are listening, go to HiringOurHeroes .org and 00:10:30.750 --> 00:10:32.710 this whole thing is in front of you. I'm looking 00:10:32.710 --> 00:10:35.110 at their website right now and I'm thinking of 00:10:35.110 --> 00:10:37.509 getting a new resume, see what I can come up 00:10:37.509 --> 00:10:39.610 with. Well, thank you very much and I hope to 00:10:39.610 --> 00:10:41.570 have you on again and get an update of how things 00:10:41.570 --> 00:10:44.629 are working and maybe getting on your mailing 00:10:44.629 --> 00:10:46.730 list so I can find out where your hiring fairs 00:10:46.730 --> 00:10:50.500 are and we can alert our local audiences. That 00:10:50.500 --> 00:10:52.220 would be great. We have monthly newsletters that 00:10:52.220 --> 00:10:55.100 we send out to employers, job seekers, and military 00:10:55.100 --> 00:10:57.720 spouses. So I would love to have you subscribe 00:10:57.720 --> 00:10:59.879 to any one of those newsletters on our home page. 00:11:00.259 --> 00:11:02.899 All right. Jennifer Gearing from the Hiring Our 00:11:02.899 --> 00:11:05.139 Heroes program at the United States Chamber of 00:11:05.139 --> 00:11:07.019 Commerce Foundation. Thank you very much for 00:11:07.019 --> 00:11:10.820 being on Veterans Radio. Thank you. All right. 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:13.820 Men and women are coming home right now. There's 00:11:13.820 --> 00:11:16.600 another place for you to go find a job. Leave 00:11:16.600 --> 00:11:20.220 and take your MOS. translated into a civilian 00:11:20.220 --> 00:11:23.059 skill and those employers are going to hire you 00:11:23.059 --> 00:11:25.000 because we know that hiring a veteran is a good 00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:28.379 job and a good idea and they work hard and they 00:11:28.379 --> 00:11:31.019 follow orders and they can improvise and they 00:11:31.019 --> 00:11:34.779 can just go to plan C, D, and E if things don't 00:11:34.779 --> 00:11:37.519 go right. We're going to be taking a little break 00:11:37.519 --> 00:11:39.200 right now and when we come back we're going to 00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:41.620 be talking with a good friend of ours, Joyce 00:11:41.620 --> 00:11:45.769 Faulkner, who has her own publishing house. that 00:11:45.769 --> 00:11:48.870 I just learned about a couple of weeks ago. And 00:11:48.870 --> 00:11:50.809 she's going to be talking about some of the stories 00:11:50.809 --> 00:11:53.269 that the Publishing House is putting out there, 00:11:53.450 --> 00:11:56.429 including our guest later on in the program, 00:11:56.529 --> 00:11:58.909 Beth Underwood, with her book, Gravity. So we'll 00:11:58.909 --> 00:12:01.090 be right back after this message. You're listening 00:12:01.090 --> 00:12:04.509 to Veterans Radio. And we're back on Veterans 00:12:04.509 --> 00:12:06.950 Radio on a beautiful Sunday afternoon. The sun 00:12:06.950 --> 00:12:09.289 is shining here. And I know that the sun is shining 00:12:09.289 --> 00:12:11.429 in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, where our next guest 00:12:11.429 --> 00:12:15.090 is. And I'm welcoming a good friend and frequent 00:12:15.980 --> 00:12:18.700 and guest on Veterans Radio, Joyce Faulkner. 00:12:18.779 --> 00:12:21.840 Joyce, welcome back. Hey, it's nice to hear from 00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:24.559 you again. How's things going? Going really well, 00:12:24.700 --> 00:12:27.240 going really well. In fact, I'm so happy to have 00:12:27.240 --> 00:12:29.519 you on the program and talk about your publishing 00:12:29.519 --> 00:12:32.940 house. I like the sound of that, don't you? I 00:12:32.940 --> 00:12:36.700 do, too. It sounds great. I just want to remind 00:12:36.700 --> 00:12:40.080 our audience that Joyce, I met Joyce at a military 00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:44.429 writer's society of America. conference, I don't 00:12:44.429 --> 00:12:49.210 remember when it was now. 2009. Wow, okay, 2009. 00:12:49.429 --> 00:12:52.009 And she was the president of that association 00:12:52.009 --> 00:12:55.809 at that time. And I had a great time there, met 00:12:55.809 --> 00:12:59.470 just so many incredibly talented men and women 00:12:59.470 --> 00:13:01.909 and writers and veteran writers and so forth. 00:13:02.350 --> 00:13:05.629 And it's just been a supply line for Veterans 00:13:05.629 --> 00:13:08.970 Radio to introduce you to some really great stories. 00:13:09.230 --> 00:13:11.629 And that's what I think what both of us are dedicated 00:13:11.629 --> 00:13:14.889 to is getting those stories out. And when I was 00:13:14.889 --> 00:13:20.769 reading the PR part of your blog for her publishing 00:13:20.769 --> 00:13:24.470 company is called Red Engine Press, correct? 00:13:24.950 --> 00:13:27.470 Yes, Red Engine Press. Where did that come from? 00:13:28.409 --> 00:13:32.210 Well, we had years ago, we started this company 00:13:32.210 --> 00:13:37.029 I think probably around 2006. And we were partnering 00:13:37.029 --> 00:13:41.570 with a gentleman who was a disabled fireman. 00:13:41.950 --> 00:13:45.830 And he wanted to call the company Red Engine 00:13:45.830 --> 00:13:50.009 Press. Now, in my mind, I had a red locomotive, 00:13:50.190 --> 00:13:53.330 a choo -choo train. Oh, that engine. But, of 00:13:53.330 --> 00:13:55.769 course, he was thinking about the red firing. 00:13:56.389 --> 00:14:02.250 Okay. So he is a step back now. He's getting 00:14:02.250 --> 00:14:04.769 better hopefully in his health and his issues. 00:14:05.909 --> 00:14:10.789 But Pat McGrath Avery and I have chugged on with 00:14:10.789 --> 00:14:16.490 our Red Engine Press. And we originally had and 00:14:16.490 --> 00:14:21.289 still do had many varieties of genre. And when 00:14:21.289 --> 00:14:24.470 I got involved with the military writers, we 00:14:24.470 --> 00:14:27.899 kind of put Red Engine Press not completely on 00:14:27.899 --> 00:14:33.259 hold but we weren't going full force. But as 00:14:33.259 --> 00:14:36.940 we got involved more with the veterans, I did 00:14:36.940 --> 00:14:41.299 a book for a gentleman who is a survivor of the 00:14:41.299 --> 00:14:45.379 Time Death March and his name was Billy Templeton 00:14:45.379 --> 00:14:49.519 and unfortunately he has since passed but it 00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:53.580 really impressed upon us how important it is 00:14:53.580 --> 00:14:57.769 to get these stories out. Billy had lived a long 00:14:57.769 --> 00:15:03.090 life and he had three wives, three sets of children, 00:15:03.529 --> 00:15:06.769 and while he had never not answered a question, 00:15:07.350 --> 00:15:10.289 none of those kids knew the whole story from 00:15:10.289 --> 00:15:13.450 beginning to end of what happened to him during 00:15:13.450 --> 00:15:17.330 World War II. And when we finished the book, 00:15:17.350 --> 00:15:20.129 and it was very trying for him to go back to 00:15:20.129 --> 00:15:24.639 those times, as you can imagine. But when we 00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:28.519 finished the book, his children came up to us 00:15:28.519 --> 00:15:31.940 and thanked us that they now knew their dad in 00:15:31.940 --> 00:15:37.000 a different way. And interestingly enough, we 00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:40.320 had arranged for a launch of that book in Branson, 00:15:40.460 --> 00:15:47.059 Ohio, I'm sorry, Branson, Missouri, and the young 00:15:47.059 --> 00:15:53.690 Marines and sailors and soldiers were so excited 00:15:53.690 --> 00:15:59.649 to meet Billy and so enthused to hear what he 00:15:59.649 --> 00:16:03.590 had overcome and you could see that what he had 00:16:03.590 --> 00:16:08.389 to say mattered to them. And after that we felt 00:16:08.389 --> 00:16:13.450 very dedicated to getting those stories out while 00:16:13.450 --> 00:16:17.570 there's still time to do it. And hopefully going 00:16:17.570 --> 00:16:19.509 to the next step, you and I have talked about 00:16:19.509 --> 00:16:24.559 this before, of encouraging people to write their 00:16:24.559 --> 00:16:28.840 stories themselves. There are lots of good reasons 00:16:28.840 --> 00:16:32.320 to do it. One being that you want to tell your 00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:37.360 story your way and let's face it, your story 00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:41.740 is your story. We did a book on the Sunshine 00:16:41.740 --> 00:16:44.200 Tunnel Massacre survivors where there were nine 00:16:44.200 --> 00:16:48.720 guys that we were including and they had nine 00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:51.379 totally different experiences. You know, the 00:16:51.379 --> 00:16:53.820 tall guys saw things differently than the short 00:16:53.820 --> 00:16:56.720 guys. The guys at the front of the line saw something 00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:58.899 different. The guys at the back of the line, 00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:02.659 the guys who were shot, you know, experienced 00:17:02.659 --> 00:17:05.660 something differently than those who weren't. 00:17:06.299 --> 00:17:09.680 So at first they argued with each other. That 00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:12.960 couldn't possibly be. That didn't match my impression. 00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:19.160 But what we finally did was say, okay, We believe 00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:23.740 all of you and your story is your story. Yeah 00:17:23.740 --> 00:17:26.079 that's the way you saw it. In fact Joyce and 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:28.859 I really kind of bonded a little bit over her 00:17:28.859 --> 00:17:31.119 book In the Shadow of Suribachi because we found 00:17:31.119 --> 00:17:34.720 out that both our fathers had been at Iwo Jima 00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:38.819 along with an awful lot of fathers of members 00:17:38.819 --> 00:17:42.220 of the Military Writers Society. Yes. So we kind 00:17:42.220 --> 00:17:44.700 of had an informal Sons and Daughters of Iwo 00:17:44.700 --> 00:17:48.529 Jima meeting and found that as you mentioned 00:17:48.529 --> 00:17:50.990 that, you know, we didn't know all the information 00:17:50.990 --> 00:17:52.930 about our fathers. Either they didn't tell us 00:17:52.930 --> 00:17:55.410 or we just didn't ask. And I think that was probably... 00:17:55.410 --> 00:17:58.170 We didn't know to ask. We were, you know, maybe 00:17:58.170 --> 00:18:00.309 you would have asked more because you're a veteran 00:18:00.309 --> 00:18:03.609 yourself. But of course I was not part of that 00:18:03.609 --> 00:18:06.849 world growing up. So I didn't know the right 00:18:06.849 --> 00:18:09.990 questions to ask at the time. I didn't get to 00:18:09.990 --> 00:18:11.910 because unfortunately my father passed away when 00:18:11.910 --> 00:18:15.400 I was 15. And I didn't say, hey dad, what'd you 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:18.960 do in the war? I found an album after he had 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:21.779 died with all these pictures and things in it. 00:18:21.779 --> 00:18:26.980 And I went, ah, ah, only if only I had known 00:18:26.980 --> 00:18:32.519 what kind of kid was I. So yeah, yeah. Well, 00:18:32.660 --> 00:18:36.099 in my case, I had known about this book. I remember 00:18:36.099 --> 00:18:38.839 sitting in my dad's lap and looking at pictures 00:18:38.839 --> 00:18:43.869 when I was maybe five or six. But we just moved 00:18:43.869 --> 00:18:47.950 this last week and all those old things I found 00:18:47.950 --> 00:18:51.349 boxes of and just going through them and looking 00:18:51.349 --> 00:18:53.829 at the pictures of Munchkin Marine, he was like 00:18:53.829 --> 00:18:58.690 5 foot 190 pounds, you know. Those realities, 00:18:59.650 --> 00:19:01.809 when you put it together with, you know, the 00:19:01.809 --> 00:19:05.349 rifle is almost as tall as he is and you start 00:19:05.349 --> 00:19:07.369 really thinking about what it must have been 00:19:07.369 --> 00:19:11.170 like, it's... stunning the things you don't realize. 00:19:11.269 --> 00:19:14.589 Right. And what I want to get to here, we've 00:19:14.589 --> 00:19:17.269 got about five minutes, I think, until we come 00:19:17.269 --> 00:19:20.049 up to a break here, is that one of the things 00:19:20.049 --> 00:19:24.089 that Red Engine Press is doing is that it appears 00:19:24.089 --> 00:19:25.849 that you're trying to collect a lot of these 00:19:25.849 --> 00:19:30.390 stories from various authors. And when I contacted 00:19:30.390 --> 00:19:32.490 you last week, you were kind enough to put me 00:19:32.490 --> 00:19:36.930 in touch with Beth Underwood. And how did you 00:19:36.930 --> 00:19:40.130 find her before I bring her on? Well, Beth is 00:19:40.130 --> 00:19:43.089 a member of Military Writers Society of America, 00:19:43.930 --> 00:19:46.650 and she has been working on this book for a long 00:19:46.650 --> 00:19:50.630 time. And she approached my writing partner and 00:19:50.630 --> 00:19:53.529 business partner, Pat McGrath Avery, and said, 00:19:53.730 --> 00:19:56.529 I've got this manuscript. Take a look at it. 00:19:56.950 --> 00:20:01.329 And we were interested right off the bat because 00:20:01.329 --> 00:20:04.190 we have a lot of material of World War II. We 00:20:04.190 --> 00:20:09.380 have material of Korea. We have Vietnam. We have 00:20:09.380 --> 00:20:14.480 nothing on the current series of wars that have 00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:19.240 gone on. And we were very interested in what 00:20:19.240 --> 00:20:22.200 she had been working with. And she was trying 00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:29.019 to bring to the families of people who had gone 00:20:29.019 --> 00:20:34.500 to war for quite an extended period for a National 00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:40.359 Guard unit. and their experiences I think you 00:20:40.359 --> 00:20:43.000 will be the first to say it's very often when 00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:44.839 you first come back it's really hard to talk 00:20:44.839 --> 00:20:47.420 about it and everybody seems so far away from 00:20:47.420 --> 00:20:50.759 you and so distant and she was trying to cross 00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:54.480 that chasm if you will so that the world would 00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:58.160 know what these guys went through and appreciate 00:20:58.160 --> 00:21:06.419 the sacrifices and the determination that they 00:21:06.419 --> 00:21:08.660 exhibited during their time there. And Red Inch 00:21:08.660 --> 00:21:12.420 and Press is looking for that kind of, you know, 00:21:12.420 --> 00:21:15.960 we have four books on Iwo Jima. You know, we 00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:18.839 have a couple of books on Korea. We have lots 00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:21.900 of books on World War II, and this is our very 00:21:21.900 --> 00:21:26.220 first for the war in Iraq. Okay, so if I am a 00:21:26.220 --> 00:21:27.859 writer out there who's listening to Veterans 00:21:27.859 --> 00:21:29.880 Radio and goes, I have this manuscript and I'd 00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:32.099 like somebody to take a look at it, they could 00:21:32.099 --> 00:21:34.599 contact you and how would they do that? They 00:21:34.599 --> 00:21:38.559 can contact me at redenginepressinfo at gmail 00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:42.000 .com. There we go, redenginepressinfo at gmail 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:46.799 .com and your website is? Redenginepress .com. 00:21:46.980 --> 00:21:51.000 There you go. www. Easy to find. It is easy to 00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:54.359 find and the website has got hundreds of books 00:21:54.359 --> 00:21:57.789 on it. And I think that they're going to really 00:21:57.789 --> 00:22:00.150 enjoy that. Joyce, I'm going to ask you to stay 00:22:00.150 --> 00:22:03.950 on the line for as long as you can, but I want 00:22:03.950 --> 00:22:06.450 to bring Beth on before we take our break just 00:22:06.450 --> 00:22:10.289 to kind of introduce the book. So joining us 00:22:10.289 --> 00:22:12.650 here on Veterans Radio is the author of Gravity, 00:22:13.109 --> 00:22:14.930 and that is Beth Underwood. Beth, welcome to 00:22:14.930 --> 00:22:18.609 Veterans Radio. Dale, thank you so much for having 00:22:18.609 --> 00:22:21.230 me on. Great to be with you guys. Thank you so 00:22:21.230 --> 00:22:24.150 much for making the journey home safely, or if 00:22:24.150 --> 00:22:27.170 you're on the side of the road, I appreciate 00:22:27.170 --> 00:22:31.109 that too. No worries. No worries, that's good. 00:22:32.109 --> 00:22:33.930 In the next couple of minutes, if we could just 00:22:33.930 --> 00:22:38.130 kind of get a little intro into this story of 00:22:38.130 --> 00:22:44.751 gravity, which is the story of K Troop of a 278th 00:22:44.750 --> 00:22:47.450 armored cavalry regiment of the Tennessee National 00:22:47.450 --> 00:22:52.690 Guard, correct? Correct. Mostly? All these new 00:22:52.690 --> 00:22:55.009 nomenclatures. So how did you come upon this 00:22:55.009 --> 00:22:59.910 story? Well, at the time when these guys were 00:22:59.910 --> 00:23:02.710 deployed, it just so happened that I worked in 00:23:02.710 --> 00:23:05.710 a small town in Tennessee, Livingston, Tennessee, 00:23:06.130 --> 00:23:11.589 which actually housed the armory for knife troops. 00:23:13.470 --> 00:23:16.670 had just recently moved in and it was Veterans 00:23:16.670 --> 00:23:22.509 Day 2004 and I landed on the square because Livingston, 00:23:22.650 --> 00:23:24.710 Tennessee actually does have a courthouse square. 00:23:27.809 --> 00:23:29.609 And I saw all these families up there, I mean 00:23:29.609 --> 00:23:34.069 just hundreds of people. And as it turned out, 00:23:34.789 --> 00:23:37.450 essentially that county, Overton County, Tennessee 00:23:37.450 --> 00:23:42.849 had since their sons and daughters and brothers 00:23:42.849 --> 00:23:48.130 and husbands off to war. And, you know, it was 00:23:48.130 --> 00:23:50.509 a coming together, I think, up there on that 00:23:50.509 --> 00:23:53.730 Veterans Day, just to pray for their safety, 00:23:53.849 --> 00:23:55.890 to pray for their return, because at that point 00:23:55.890 --> 00:23:58.809 there had already been a couple of Marines who 00:23:58.809 --> 00:24:01.910 had been killed. So it was a really trying time, 00:24:01.910 --> 00:24:06.990 I think. And then as I got involved with Knife 00:24:06.990 --> 00:24:09.799 Troops, one thing led to another and you did 00:24:09.799 --> 00:24:12.799 not know there was a story to tell. Well it is 00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:16.279 a great story and I can't wait to go to the news 00:24:16.279 --> 00:24:18.880 to come back and talk a little bit a lot about 00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:20.640 that story and we're going to have one of the 00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:23.539 members of Knife Troop on the program with us 00:24:23.539 --> 00:24:25.680 because it seems like he kind of followed him 00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:29.079 throughout the process since he was a National 00:24:29.079 --> 00:24:32.619 Guard recruiter and I'm just kind of fascinated 00:24:32.619 --> 00:24:36.240 by the idea of that the National Guard was even 00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:37.960 called up. I don't think everybody was really 00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:41.220 aware of what the National Guard's responsibilities 00:24:41.220 --> 00:24:44.559 were and why it was so surprising I think probably 00:24:44.559 --> 00:24:46.480 to the National Guard members that they were 00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:50.220 called to active duty. Oh sure and not only called 00:24:50.220 --> 00:24:53.819 to active duty but put in the front lines you 00:24:53.819 --> 00:24:55.859 know they were they were in one of the more the 00:24:55.859 --> 00:24:58.779 most hostile areas in Iraq known as the Triangle 00:24:58.779 --> 00:25:01.779 of Death. So it was and you know this affected 00:25:02.079 --> 00:25:05.700 in Tennessee roughly 4 ,000 people. It just took 00:25:05.700 --> 00:25:09.160 that entire battalion and you know put them across 00:25:09.160 --> 00:25:13.180 the pond. I just I can't wait to talk more about 00:25:13.180 --> 00:25:15.039 this. We've got a minute to take a break and 00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:18.539 as I was researching or luckily Joyce sent me 00:25:18.539 --> 00:25:21.799 a Kindle copy of the book and I was able to read 00:25:21.799 --> 00:25:24.440 it. It's a fascinating story and I can't wait 00:25:24.440 --> 00:25:27.559 for our audience to learn more about it. Because 00:25:27.559 --> 00:25:29.339 of the Tennessee connection that I've mentioned 00:25:29.339 --> 00:25:32.819 before my dad was from Tennessee. from a little 00:25:32.819 --> 00:25:35.079 town called Normandy over by Shelbyville and 00:25:35.079 --> 00:25:37.319 then he taught school in Harriman and Springfield 00:25:37.319 --> 00:25:39.619 and I was looking on the map where Sweetwater 00:25:39.619 --> 00:25:42.660 was and it's just it brought the whole thing 00:25:42.660 --> 00:25:46.059 home to me and so uh I can't wait to talk to 00:25:46.059 --> 00:25:48.900 you uh to you Beth in just a moment we're going 00:25:48.900 --> 00:25:50.680 to bring on as I mentioned one of the troopers 00:25:50.680 --> 00:25:53.660 there and Beth Underwood is the writer of Gravity 00:25:53.660 --> 00:25:57.660 a story of the of Keith or actually Knife Troop 00:25:57.660 --> 00:26:01.700 the third of the 278th armored cavalry regiment, 00:26:02.099 --> 00:26:03.980 National Guard from the Tennessee National Guards. 00:26:04.279 --> 00:26:07.000 So we'll be back after the short break for the 00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:10.339 news. You're listening to Veterans Radio. The 00:26:10.339 --> 00:26:12.200 Medal of Honor is the highest award for valor 00:26:12.200 --> 00:26:14.160 in combat given a member of the Armed Forces 00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:16.339 of the United States. There have been over 3 00:26:16.339 --> 00:26:19.200 ,400 recipients of the nation's highest award. 00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:22.400 This is one of them. Specialist Ross McGivis 00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:24.460 threw his back against a grenade thrown into 00:26:24.460 --> 00:26:26.880 his Humvee, saving the lives of his crewmates. 00:26:27.779 --> 00:26:33.769 Details after this. On December 4, 2006, McGinnis 00:26:33.769 --> 00:26:36.329 was manning the turret in the last Humvee of 00:26:36.329 --> 00:26:39.089 a six -vehicle patrol in northeast Baghdad when 00:26:39.089 --> 00:26:41.190 an insurgent threw a grenade from the roof of 00:26:41.190 --> 00:26:44.150 a nearby building. As he stood up to get ready 00:26:44.150 --> 00:26:46.390 to jump out of the vehicle, as he'd been trained 00:26:46.390 --> 00:26:49.410 to do, officials say McGinnis realized the other 00:26:49.410 --> 00:26:51.690 four soldiers in the vehicle did not know where 00:26:51.690 --> 00:26:54.009 the grenade had landed and did not have enough 00:26:54.009 --> 00:26:56.869 time to escape. He threw his back against the 00:26:56.869 --> 00:26:58.869 radio mount and smothered the explosive with 00:26:58.869 --> 00:27:01.849 his body. McGinnis was killed instantly while 00:27:01.849 --> 00:27:04.609 the other four men survived. He was awarded the 00:27:04.609 --> 00:27:07.049 Medal of Honor posthumously by President Bush 00:27:07.049 --> 00:27:10.990 on June 2, 2008. The Medal of Honor series is 00:27:10.990 --> 00:27:19.619 a production of Veterans Radio. If you'd like 00:27:19.619 --> 00:27:21.900 to get in on the conversation today, you can 00:27:21.900 --> 00:27:25.019 give us a call here at Veterans Radio at 734 00:27:25.019 --> 00:27:32.400 -822 -1600. You can follow us on Facebook and 00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:35.460 on Twitter. Not that I know how to use any of 00:27:35.460 --> 00:27:37.339 those things, but we like to try and use them 00:27:37.339 --> 00:27:39.680 as much as we can so people can keep updated 00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:43.589 with what we're going on with. I have a little 00:27:43.589 --> 00:27:46.670 review of the book Gravity written by Beth Underwood 00:27:46.670 --> 00:27:48.730 that was sent in by a friend of ours and I want 00:27:48.730 --> 00:27:51.390 to read this to you. It says Beth Underwood has 00:27:51.390 --> 00:27:53.670 written a compelling tale of America's citizen 00:27:53.670 --> 00:27:56.490 soldiers weaving a tapestry of how demanding 00:27:56.490 --> 00:27:58.950 the strands of military and civilian life are. 00:27:59.450 --> 00:28:01.490 People who trained on weekends often without 00:28:01.490 --> 00:28:03.990 the advantage of continuing professional guidance 00:28:03.990 --> 00:28:06.410 provided by our regular military branches are 00:28:06.410 --> 00:28:09.150 asked to step into the fire of war in a dust 00:28:09.150 --> 00:28:12.529 bowl a lifetime away. Our wars against terrorism 00:28:12.529 --> 00:28:16.890 forced our reservists and National Guard personnel 00:28:16.890 --> 00:28:19.910 to walk the tangled line between warrior and 00:28:19.910 --> 00:28:24.349 family member in and out a number of times. Gravity 00:28:24.349 --> 00:28:26.670 pulls the reader into the turmoil and refuses 00:28:26.670 --> 00:28:30.829 to let go. This is by our good friend Mike Moon 00:28:30.829 --> 00:28:33.210 Mullins, another one of the award -winning writers 00:28:33.210 --> 00:28:36.349 from the Military Writers Society of America. 00:28:37.690 --> 00:28:40.210 Beth, I think he kind of describes what your 00:28:40.210 --> 00:28:45.950 book is about, don't you think? Oh, did we lose 00:28:45.950 --> 00:28:51.769 her? Did we lose Beth? I would say we did. Sounds 00:28:51.769 --> 00:28:53.890 like we might have. I think we might have. So 00:28:53.890 --> 00:28:56.430 we'll track her down. So all right, Joyce, tell 00:28:56.430 --> 00:28:59.630 me what you think of Mike's comments there. Well, 00:28:59.630 --> 00:29:02.529 I think Mike obviously hit the nail on the head. 00:29:03.349 --> 00:29:06.289 When I first read this book, I was just absolutely 00:29:06.289 --> 00:29:10.309 stunned. that so many people were in the line 00:29:10.309 --> 00:29:13.509 of fire and they were in the quote triangle of 00:29:13.509 --> 00:29:16.789 death. They were right where things were happening 00:29:16.789 --> 00:29:22.990 that I would have thought our regular trips would 00:29:22.990 --> 00:29:28.490 be. I was totally unprepared to realize that 00:29:28.490 --> 00:29:31.930 these guys even had jobs and homes and kids and 00:29:31.930 --> 00:29:34.890 all of these things with the expectation that 00:29:34.890 --> 00:29:38.789 they would just be serving for short periods 00:29:38.789 --> 00:29:41.750 of time or, you know, do the weekend warrior 00:29:41.750 --> 00:29:45.130 bit and these guys were in there doing it. That's 00:29:45.130 --> 00:29:46.670 what I thought. In fact, we're going to skip 00:29:46.670 --> 00:29:51.150 ahead a little bit and I'm going to ask John 00:29:51.150 --> 00:29:54.349 Mack McCulloch, I'm probably mispronouncing that 00:29:54.349 --> 00:29:58.690 Mack if I did, I'm sorry, who was one of the 00:29:58.690 --> 00:30:02.609 members of the story that Beth wrote about. Mack, 00:30:02.650 --> 00:30:05.369 welcome to Veterans Radio. Oh, outstanding. Thank 00:30:05.369 --> 00:30:08.259 you for having me. Well thank you for, well I 00:30:08.259 --> 00:30:09.940 know it sounds a little bit of a cliché, but 00:30:09.940 --> 00:30:12.599 thank you for going there and doing your job 00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:15.779 when it probably wasn't expected by you or the 00:30:15.779 --> 00:30:18.920 other members of your group. Well there was a 00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:21.079 few who didn't, I mean there was a few who did, 00:30:21.140 --> 00:30:24.059 you know, and that I think Beth captured it perfectly. 00:30:25.299 --> 00:30:28.619 For me as coming, you know, I did my initial 00:30:28.619 --> 00:30:32.480 tour in the Marine Corps and so I became a recruiter 00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:37.160 for the National Guard. simply because I missed 00:30:37.160 --> 00:30:39.140 that being in service and stuff. And so the National 00:30:39.140 --> 00:30:42.400 Guard was kind of a home to, just to kind of 00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:44.400 get me back in uniform and still experience that 00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:47.660 camaraderie. But most of the recruiters that 00:30:47.660 --> 00:30:49.720 I served with initially when I came to the Guard, 00:30:50.940 --> 00:30:54.200 the sentiment they had was that the National 00:30:54.200 --> 00:30:55.920 Guard would get deployed whenever the Russians 00:30:55.920 --> 00:30:59.220 came over the foothills and mountains. So for 00:30:59.220 --> 00:31:02.680 me, I thought it was maybe a preparation exercise. 00:31:04.250 --> 00:31:06.049 Some of the others thought, yeah, they wouldn't 00:31:06.049 --> 00:31:07.869 have spent this kind of time and effort in trying 00:31:07.869 --> 00:31:11.630 to get us ready to go. But me, I kind of straddled 00:31:11.630 --> 00:31:14.309 the fence there for a while that, yeah, there's 00:31:14.309 --> 00:31:17.650 no way they're going to take a little troop out 00:31:17.650 --> 00:31:20.349 of Sweetwater, Tennessee and truthfully activate 00:31:20.349 --> 00:31:23.630 them and send them across the pond. And so the 00:31:23.630 --> 00:31:27.750 closer we kept getting to it, I'll have to admit 00:31:27.750 --> 00:31:31.359 there was a part of me that... started to get 00:31:31.359 --> 00:31:34.079 excited about it simply because the training 00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:37.579 that I experienced in the Marine Corps, I guess 00:31:37.579 --> 00:31:39.700 you always question yourself as a soldier as 00:31:39.700 --> 00:31:42.900 to whether or not you could actually face the 00:31:42.900 --> 00:31:47.759 rigors of what it's going to take. And so there 00:31:47.759 --> 00:31:49.380 was a part of me that was excited about it, a 00:31:49.380 --> 00:31:52.359 part that was nervous, and that's exactly what 00:31:52.359 --> 00:31:55.559 I think Beth has done is she's captured the roller 00:31:55.559 --> 00:31:57.539 coaster ride of emotions that you go through. 00:31:57.769 --> 00:32:01.150 When you do have to face and confront this and 00:32:01.150 --> 00:32:05.049 that you do get through, you know, an 18 -month 00:32:05.049 --> 00:32:08.289 deployment, I think you learn a lot about yourself 00:32:08.289 --> 00:32:12.509 in this process. So I really can't, I just can't, 00:32:12.509 --> 00:32:17.049 I can't start to thank Beth enough for what she's 00:32:17.049 --> 00:32:19.309 done and what Red agent presence has done is 00:32:19.309 --> 00:32:22.250 that, you know, not many soldiers get the opportunity 00:32:22.250 --> 00:32:25.329 to hold that time that they spent there in their 00:32:25.329 --> 00:32:29.440 hands. No, and it's such a great story. How do 00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:31.079 you pronounce your last name so I don't butcher 00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:33.619 it again? It's McCullum, but that's the reason 00:32:33.619 --> 00:32:39.559 the nickname Mac exists. I can't read phonetically. 00:32:39.700 --> 00:32:41.859 It doesn't work all the time. Beth is back on 00:32:41.859 --> 00:32:43.920 the line. Beth, welcome back to Veterans Radio. 00:32:45.259 --> 00:32:48.460 Thank you. Glad to be back. I know you. I don't 00:32:48.460 --> 00:32:52.299 know where you went. Beth, I'm going to ask you 00:32:52.299 --> 00:32:54.579 first and then Mac, if you want to jump in, feel 00:32:54.579 --> 00:32:57.359 free. I want to talk about some of the other 00:32:57.359 --> 00:33:01.480 men in this story and the relationship because 00:33:01.480 --> 00:33:04.920 one of the men was a football coach, wasn't he? 00:33:05.819 --> 00:33:09.140 And he ended up in the same unit with three of 00:33:09.140 --> 00:33:13.839 his former players. Right, right. Eric Leaver, 00:33:14.099 --> 00:33:16.859 who is now principal at Sweetwater High School 00:33:16.859 --> 00:33:21.900 and still coaches football. That's amazing. That 00:33:21.900 --> 00:33:24.900 is amazing. My dad's concha, he was principal 00:33:24.900 --> 00:33:28.359 at Harriman High School. His salary was $125 00:33:28.359 --> 00:33:31.680 a month. I don't know. I hope he's doing better 00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:35.240 than that now. I hope so too. What a small world 00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:38.779 though. It is a very small world. So tell me 00:33:38.779 --> 00:33:43.960 about these four especially who... We're training 00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:46.539 on weekends and, you know, they go away for a 00:33:46.539 --> 00:33:48.180 couple of weeks in the summertime and the next 00:33:48.180 --> 00:33:50.339 thing you know, they're shipped down to Mississippi 00:33:50.339 --> 00:33:56.920 and then out to California and off they go. That 00:33:56.920 --> 00:34:01.759 pretty much sums it up, doesn't it, Mac? That 00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:04.059 pretty much does. I mean those four, you know, 00:34:04.140 --> 00:34:08.860 the thing of it was is that the difficulty that 00:34:08.860 --> 00:34:18.469 was there. Did I just lose him? Okay, Mac, I'm 00:34:18.469 --> 00:34:24.230 sorry. I'm not sure exactly what happened there. 00:34:25.190 --> 00:34:31.050 So when you first got to Iraq, can you describe 00:34:31.050 --> 00:34:33.630 it for our audience? I don't think people have 00:34:33.630 --> 00:34:36.630 the opportunity to really realize what the terrain 00:34:36.630 --> 00:34:39.789 is like, what the weather is like, and where 00:34:39.789 --> 00:34:43.949 you guys were. Well, the area that we were in 00:34:43.949 --> 00:34:49.489 in Belize there, for me, now that I'm out in 00:34:49.489 --> 00:34:52.750 Arizona, I mean, it is very much similar to the 00:34:52.750 --> 00:34:56.789 Sonoran Desert minus the saguaro cactus. But 00:34:56.789 --> 00:35:00.710 it's almost as if you're time traveling. I mean, 00:35:01.969 --> 00:35:04.610 the lay of the area out there looks pretty much 00:35:04.610 --> 00:35:09.519 like, I guess what I'd always imagine. You know, 00:35:09.880 --> 00:35:12.719 reading stories in the Bible look like. Still 00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:15.099 got some of the old mud huts that are out there. 00:35:16.059 --> 00:35:19.719 You know, a family's farm and their farmland 00:35:19.719 --> 00:35:23.019 are still really close to the little small house. 00:35:24.659 --> 00:35:29.900 Not uncommon to see just large fields. And all 00:35:29.900 --> 00:35:31.840 of this growing in the middle of the desert, 00:35:32.119 --> 00:35:34.500 temperatures sometimes like when we first got 00:35:34.500 --> 00:35:39.099 there. November, December time frame is still 00:35:39.099 --> 00:35:43.380 relatively cold at this time. A lot of rain is 00:35:43.380 --> 00:35:47.199 coming in. Sandstorms can kick up at any moment. 00:35:49.019 --> 00:35:53.019 So you've got the experience of rain, cold, but 00:35:53.019 --> 00:35:55.179 then during the day it kind of heats up. So you've 00:35:55.179 --> 00:35:59.719 got humidity. I always described it as though 00:35:59.719 --> 00:36:02.179 there was like this orange haze that was just 00:36:02.179 --> 00:36:05.369 present everywhere. that seemed like it never 00:36:05.369 --> 00:36:11.630 went away. And your forward observation base 00:36:11.630 --> 00:36:16.090 or FOB, where was that located? FOB Orion was 00:36:16.090 --> 00:36:22.409 just about six clicks about maybe about three 00:36:22.409 --> 00:36:27.789 miles south of LSA Anaconda, located right north 00:36:27.789 --> 00:36:33.679 of Baghdad, just there on the outskirts. Yeah, 00:36:34.099 --> 00:36:36.380 our predominant role there, we controlled pretty 00:36:36.380 --> 00:36:39.719 much everything between the northern part of 00:36:39.719 --> 00:36:44.340 Baghdad on up to some of the southern reaches 00:36:44.340 --> 00:36:47.920 there of Samarra. And we had a pretty large area 00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:50.019 that dealt with most of the what they call the 00:36:50.019 --> 00:36:57.360 Salah al -Din province. And the major cities 00:36:57.360 --> 00:37:01.639 that we had was Adujal. which Addijal was, of 00:37:01.639 --> 00:37:04.619 course, one of the cities that Saddam had, you 00:37:04.619 --> 00:37:07.300 know, murdered over 300 people. Right. That's 00:37:07.300 --> 00:37:11.199 mentioned in the story. Yes. It's amazing to 00:37:11.199 --> 00:37:12.960 me what I was reading in there, and I know that, 00:37:12.980 --> 00:37:14.380 Beth, you're back on the line. Is that correct? 00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:20.199 I'm back. Oh, here we go again, right? I better 00:37:20.199 --> 00:37:21.800 get this story out. I'm going to come back to 00:37:21.800 --> 00:37:24.619 Mac to talk about the conditions there and what 00:37:24.619 --> 00:37:27.139 he ran into, but, Beth, we were talking about 00:37:27.139 --> 00:37:30.590 the... the members of this organization. Can 00:37:30.590 --> 00:37:32.570 you kind of describe some of them? Because it's 00:37:32.570 --> 00:37:36.269 all across the spectrum of, you know, gung -ho 00:37:36.269 --> 00:37:39.250 and some people are holding back and what am 00:37:39.250 --> 00:37:40.889 I going to go over there and if I go over there 00:37:40.889 --> 00:37:42.530 I'm going to get, you know, I can relate to this. 00:37:42.670 --> 00:37:44.610 I'm going to go get myself killed someplace. 00:37:46.869 --> 00:37:50.010 Can you talk about some of the people that are 00:37:50.010 --> 00:37:54.269 in this story? Sure. Well, of course, Mac's here 00:37:54.269 --> 00:37:56.949 to defend himself, so I'll move along from that 00:37:56.949 --> 00:38:00.409 one, but one of them who sort of sticks out is 00:38:00.409 --> 00:38:04.030 Vince Gray, who was, you know, he was nervous 00:38:04.030 --> 00:38:07.070 from the get -go, and I don't know that he, I'm 00:38:07.070 --> 00:38:10.369 sure he overcame that nervousness at some point, 00:38:10.630 --> 00:38:15.130 but certainly, yeah, he always was willing to 00:38:15.130 --> 00:38:18.269 step up, no matter what was asked of him. He 00:38:18.269 --> 00:38:20.409 clearly was able to step up and do whatever he 00:38:20.409 --> 00:38:24.380 was asked to do. that nervousness that he sort 00:38:24.380 --> 00:38:26.840 of went into. Just to me, he was a very, he was 00:38:26.840 --> 00:38:29.780 a very meek person. I don't know that he would 00:38:29.780 --> 00:38:32.500 agree with that definition. But certainly that 00:38:32.500 --> 00:38:35.139 was one end of the spectrum. And Mondo, Billy 00:38:35.139 --> 00:38:38.280 Yates Matoy, he was a, well, he was Spike the 00:38:38.280 --> 00:38:40.659 Bulldog, I think, as I have described him. You 00:38:40.659 --> 00:38:42.880 know, he was just rough and tumble. I'll get 00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:44.760 it. I'll knock the door down. Whatever you need 00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:47.219 me to do. Breach the door. I got it. I'm your 00:38:47.219 --> 00:38:51.300 man. Send me in. And then, you know, you had 00:38:51.300 --> 00:38:56.579 Paul Shannon, who was their commander, who was 00:38:56.579 --> 00:39:01.500 seasoned at this, as was the Army Ranger that 00:39:01.500 --> 00:39:04.579 they had, Neil Wolfenbarger. So, you know, you 00:39:04.579 --> 00:39:08.159 really had, not only did you have people that 00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:12.260 came from just the two weekends a month and two 00:39:12.260 --> 00:39:14.199 weeks, or one weekend a month and two weeks, 00:39:14.280 --> 00:39:18.869 or two weeks out of the year, you had that. Messing 00:39:18.869 --> 00:39:22.230 with people that had 20 years active duty experience 00:39:22.230 --> 00:39:25.329 whether it be as a ranger or you know Or whatever 00:39:25.329 --> 00:39:28.469 the case might be so you had the experience levels, 00:39:28.469 --> 00:39:31.809 but then you also had the personality Conflicts 00:39:31.809 --> 00:39:34.050 and I think in the end the beautiful one the 00:39:34.050 --> 00:39:37.110 beautiful parts of their story is that with all 00:39:37.110 --> 00:39:41.570 of these different Personalities and different 00:39:41.570 --> 00:39:44.869 experience levels. They made it work and they 00:39:44.869 --> 00:39:50.099 made it work very well Yeah, I thought it sounded 00:39:50.099 --> 00:39:52.519 as though they you know that you guys really 00:39:52.519 --> 00:39:55.199 had a system going there that was working for 00:39:55.199 --> 00:40:01.000 you Mac and it I Can't imagine going out luckily. 00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:03.420 I was never I was never on the ground that long 00:40:03.420 --> 00:40:05.500 So I mean I was a guy that just dropped you off 00:40:05.500 --> 00:40:07.980 and took off and one Went away and came back 00:40:07.980 --> 00:40:12.019 to get you later on So I can't imagine the pressure 00:40:12.019 --> 00:40:14.019 and the tension that you're under when you're 00:40:14.019 --> 00:40:18.900 going down these roads every day And they're 00:40:18.900 --> 00:40:23.699 blowing up on you. Can you convey a little bit 00:40:23.699 --> 00:40:26.719 of that feeling to our audience, you think? Well, 00:40:27.820 --> 00:40:30.420 you know, that is probably the most difficult 00:40:30.420 --> 00:40:33.480 part to explain. I mean, because it's one of 00:40:33.480 --> 00:40:35.800 the biggest reasons, I think, that my experience 00:40:35.800 --> 00:40:38.260 as a recruiter says it keeps people out of service 00:40:38.260 --> 00:40:42.599 is that this level of fear. But the level of 00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:45.840 fear that you had every day didn't really have 00:40:45.840 --> 00:40:49.440 a whole lot to do with yourself. The most important 00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:52.559 thing and the most important aspect is that your 00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:56.699 fear in fights when you're out on a mission is 00:40:56.699 --> 00:40:58.940 not what happens to me personally, but what happens 00:40:58.940 --> 00:41:03.599 to the soldier on my left and my right. What 00:41:03.599 --> 00:41:07.980 happens if I don't bring 110 % to the table today 00:41:07.980 --> 00:41:12.630 and my actions cause someone other than me to 00:41:12.630 --> 00:41:15.210 get hurt and and so when you're writing you have 00:41:15.210 --> 00:41:20.409 this you have this intense feeling that um i 00:41:20.409 --> 00:41:23.969 have a commitment to the soldiers i'm with to 00:41:23.969 --> 00:41:26.369 give my absolute best because their life depends 00:41:26.369 --> 00:41:29.909 on it so you it definitely is defined by one 00:41:29.909 --> 00:41:32.329 of the army values of selfless service and what 00:41:32.329 --> 00:41:37.130 that means so um again i mean even to this day 00:41:37.130 --> 00:41:40.599 while We make a lot of jokes between each other. 00:41:40.760 --> 00:41:43.199 Big Weave, I still get reminded from Big Weave 00:41:43.199 --> 00:41:47.860 of an IED that I just missed one day. And then 00:41:47.860 --> 00:41:50.239 you do. You kind of learn to make jokes about 00:41:50.239 --> 00:41:53.000 it, even though the seriousness of it is, well, 00:41:53.000 --> 00:41:54.619 it could have cost someone their life. And then 00:41:54.619 --> 00:41:57.119 when it doesn't, and you get lucky, well, then 00:41:57.119 --> 00:41:59.739 of course you do the next best thing is. And 00:41:59.739 --> 00:42:01.719 you bring that up as a constant reminder that, 00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:04.619 hey, you almost messed this up. But it's that 00:42:04.619 --> 00:42:06.159 commitment that you feel for one another that 00:42:06.159 --> 00:42:09.579 just really I mean, it seems to make it a lot 00:42:09.579 --> 00:42:12.300 easier to deal with. I think that's so important. 00:42:12.519 --> 00:42:13.920 And as you were mentioning it, I was thinking, 00:42:14.079 --> 00:42:15.880 you know, we are more concerned about the people 00:42:15.880 --> 00:42:17.619 on our left and right that we can't let down 00:42:17.619 --> 00:42:22.500 our team, you know, by not concentrating on whatever 00:42:22.500 --> 00:42:25.300 our job was. And, you know, you were talking 00:42:25.300 --> 00:42:29.099 about Captain Shannon and Lieutenant Tiffin was 00:42:29.099 --> 00:42:31.820 nervous about, you know, how is he going to perform? 00:42:31.820 --> 00:42:34.960 And it looks like he performed just fine as it 00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:38.960 was going along. We've got about less than 10 00:42:38.960 --> 00:42:44.559 minutes to go. Talk a little bit about Joey Hunt 00:42:44.559 --> 00:42:49.719 and Vic Lawrence, if you would, Beth, start off 00:42:49.719 --> 00:42:55.820 with. Beth? You know, it's so odd that you ask 00:42:55.820 --> 00:42:59.599 about this, and I've just spent the weekend with 00:42:59.599 --> 00:43:04.579 his parents. And everything I know about Joey 00:43:04.579 --> 00:43:09.170 comes from Mac. and the other guys or Joey's 00:43:09.170 --> 00:43:14.429 parents because I never I never met him um and 00:43:14.429 --> 00:43:17.849 I just sort of everything I everything that comes 00:43:17.849 --> 00:43:22.690 up in my mind is just this this good old boy 00:43:22.690 --> 00:43:27.429 who probably always had a trick up his sleeve 00:43:27.429 --> 00:43:31.130 that nobody else really knew about um and it's 00:43:31.130 --> 00:43:34.920 like he had a maybe he had a little secret Maybe 00:43:34.920 --> 00:43:36.840 he had a little secret to dealing with life. 00:43:37.179 --> 00:43:41.699 Always a happy guy and had a heart of gold, you 00:43:41.699 --> 00:43:44.639 know, would reach out to help anybody. His mom 00:43:44.639 --> 00:43:48.019 talks about being in Kmart one time, and I think 00:43:48.019 --> 00:43:53.480 he was about 13, 14, maybe 15, and she's really 00:43:53.480 --> 00:43:56.019 just losing her patience. Come on, Julie. We've 00:43:56.019 --> 00:43:58.219 got to go. We've got to go. She can't find us. 00:43:58.260 --> 00:44:00.559 She's running through the store looking for him 00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:04.460 and finds him in the toy aisle with some child 00:44:04.460 --> 00:44:08.219 from, I guess, from elementary school. He said, 00:44:08.280 --> 00:44:11.059 what are you doing? And he said, mama, he just 00:44:11.059 --> 00:44:12.940 wants this toy. He doesn't have enough money. 00:44:12.980 --> 00:44:15.280 I'm trying to help him find something he has 00:44:15.280 --> 00:44:19.119 enough money to pay for. And those stories are 00:44:19.119 --> 00:44:21.800 just everywhere. You know, when Jim and Marcia, 00:44:21.940 --> 00:44:25.239 his parents, talk about him, that's what they 00:44:25.239 --> 00:44:30.659 talk about. Just a gem of a person. And then 00:44:30.659 --> 00:44:34.789 Vic, Unfortunately, his father has since passed 00:44:34.789 --> 00:44:39.250 away, but I did meet with him a few times, and 00:44:39.250 --> 00:44:41.750 I think Mac would tell you, and he can probably 00:44:41.750 --> 00:44:45.690 tell you a lot more, but Vic was the big practical 00:44:45.690 --> 00:44:48.710 joker, and he was always trying to talk Paul 00:44:48.710 --> 00:44:51.530 Shannon into playing a joke on someone, and I 00:44:51.530 --> 00:44:53.369 don't think he really cared who it was going 00:44:53.369 --> 00:44:59.110 to be on. So again, another guy that's just good 00:44:59.110 --> 00:45:03.659 old family guys. And I think they didn't want, 00:45:03.980 --> 00:45:07.039 I think that, as Mac would tell you, one of Joey's 00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:09.699 favorite songs was Simple Man. And he wanted 00:45:09.699 --> 00:45:11.559 to learn that more than anything else. He wanted 00:45:11.559 --> 00:45:13.760 to learn that song, come home, play it for his 00:45:13.760 --> 00:45:18.199 parents. And that just so accurately describes 00:45:18.199 --> 00:45:22.639 both of these men. Just simple men and good men. 00:45:23.860 --> 00:45:26.360 Well, we always say here on the program as ordinary 00:45:26.360 --> 00:45:28.840 men, we're put in extraordinary circumstances. 00:45:29.449 --> 00:45:33.570 and do the best that they can. That's all that 00:45:33.570 --> 00:45:37.590 you can do. Matt, can you talk a little bit about 00:45:37.590 --> 00:45:39.849 Joey and Vic? I don't want to go into the event 00:45:39.849 --> 00:45:41.409 because I don't want to spoil the whole thing 00:45:41.409 --> 00:45:44.829 for people that are going to read the book. I've 00:45:44.829 --> 00:45:46.769 probably already given away the ending anyhow, 00:45:47.030 --> 00:45:52.789 but you're here. Tell me a little bit about these 00:45:52.789 --> 00:45:56.489 two and about the men that were in your organization 00:45:56.489 --> 00:45:59.090 or your platoon or in your your, you know, in 00:45:59.090 --> 00:46:02.409 your knife troop and how you all related to each 00:46:02.409 --> 00:46:04.429 other, because I found that would be interesting. 00:46:05.369 --> 00:46:07.610 Well, the, you know, the thing of it was that 00:46:07.610 --> 00:46:11.329 the third platoon was just, I mean, pretty much 00:46:11.329 --> 00:46:14.650 they were, they were labeled as rebels. You know, 00:46:14.730 --> 00:46:17.550 from the time that we got passed off from, we 00:46:17.550 --> 00:46:20.250 were originally in Bravo troop over in Sweetwater 00:46:20.250 --> 00:46:24.039 and It was almost as if this group was just hand 00:46:24.039 --> 00:46:27.239 selected by the commander of B -troop, that if 00:46:27.239 --> 00:46:29.219 I have to go, this list of men is going to go 00:46:29.219 --> 00:46:33.900 with someone else. We're known for maybe not 00:46:33.900 --> 00:46:37.280 being the most user friendly. As a recruiter, 00:46:37.420 --> 00:46:39.360 of course, I understood immediately that I would 00:46:39.360 --> 00:46:42.119 be marked as, oh, that's one of those admin guys, 00:46:42.219 --> 00:46:44.300 and he's a recruiter, and I don't want to take 00:46:44.300 --> 00:46:46.159 him with me. He doesn't have any combat experience. 00:46:46.260 --> 00:46:49.650 And then the other guys that we had there, you 00:46:49.650 --> 00:46:51.409 know we're we're pretty much either that either 00:46:51.409 --> 00:46:54.610 they didn't really stand out or maybe in invicts 00:46:54.610 --> 00:46:56.289 taste maybe they clowned a little bit too much 00:46:56.289 --> 00:47:00.530 whatever the case may be but it kind of cemented 00:47:00.530 --> 00:47:03.789 us together that this was a little family that 00:47:03.789 --> 00:47:06.949 you know we we we took comfort in one another 00:47:06.949 --> 00:47:09.469 we kind of figured that we were going to get 00:47:09.469 --> 00:47:13.090 you know as as you know they say stuff rolled 00:47:13.090 --> 00:47:15.309 downhill in the military and here we were at 00:47:15.309 --> 00:47:17.550 the very bottom of the hill you know we get a 00:47:17.550 --> 00:47:21.239 true Um, we're going to be attached to them. 00:47:21.300 --> 00:47:23.000 Then K troops going to be cut out. They're going 00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:25.320 to be attached to Wisconsin. So as you were looking 00:47:25.320 --> 00:47:27.880 at who was on the top, sending the stuff down 00:47:27.880 --> 00:47:30.420 the hill, you were sitting here in third, uh, 00:47:30.460 --> 00:47:32.940 third platoon. No one looks kind of at you while 00:47:32.940 --> 00:47:34.739 you're at the bottom, but it, it, it's kind of 00:47:34.739 --> 00:47:37.920 like, it, it, it, it's cemented together to where 00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:40.099 that no matter what came, you know, and, and 00:47:40.099 --> 00:47:45.119 when Beth was talking, um, for me, Joey, you 00:47:45.119 --> 00:47:49.550 know, as a squad leader, Joey always was kind 00:47:49.550 --> 00:47:51.570 of that that thing that whenever I felt because 00:47:51.570 --> 00:47:54.409 you get frustrated as a leader and you really 00:47:54.409 --> 00:47:57.269 can't convey to everyone below you how you feel 00:47:57.269 --> 00:47:59.050 and you're you know you're starting to get frustrated 00:47:59.050 --> 00:48:02.809 and for me that I was really cold down in Camp 00:48:02.809 --> 00:48:07.050 Shelby it was raining and we were out we're running 00:48:07.050 --> 00:48:09.369 some sort of training exercise and I'll never 00:48:09.369 --> 00:48:10.889 forget that day was one of those days I was like 00:48:10.889 --> 00:48:12.329 you know what I don't even know what I'm doing 00:48:12.329 --> 00:48:15.599 why am I here my wife's at home I had twin daughters 00:48:15.599 --> 00:48:17.800 that were on their way, and what am I doing here? 00:48:18.400 --> 00:48:21.420 And I look over and I see Joey sitting outside 00:48:21.420 --> 00:48:25.900 and just rain pouring on top of him. He's got 00:48:25.900 --> 00:48:28.760 a little poncho kind of wrapped around him. But 00:48:28.760 --> 00:48:32.980 he had this look on his face, this little, we 00:48:32.980 --> 00:48:34.920 always called it this little sheepish grin that 00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:37.159 he had, that like Beth said, it looked like he 00:48:37.159 --> 00:48:40.920 had this secret. And I kept thinking, okay, no 00:48:40.920 --> 00:48:45.610 matter how bad I feel today. If he can sit here, 00:48:45.909 --> 00:48:49.710 soak to the bone, freeze into death, and he's 00:48:49.710 --> 00:48:52.889 got this little secret going on, okay, I'm gonna 00:48:52.889 --> 00:48:58.610 keep doing what I gotta do. And Vic, with his 00:48:58.610 --> 00:49:00.170 practical jokes, well, you always kind of hang 00:49:00.170 --> 00:49:01.730 around with him just to see what's gonna happen 00:49:01.730 --> 00:49:04.570 next, because it was always something that was 00:49:04.570 --> 00:49:07.539 gonna be absolutely funny. more than likely going 00:49:07.539 --> 00:49:08.980 to be something inappropriate which is going 00:49:08.980 --> 00:49:11.480 to make it even more funnier. Well, I have to 00:49:11.480 --> 00:49:13.920 stop the whole thing. This time has gone so fast, 00:49:14.179 --> 00:49:17.719 folks. We're out of time. I just need to thank 00:49:17.719 --> 00:49:19.760 you both very much for being on Veterans Radio 00:49:19.760 --> 00:49:21.400 and I encourage our audience to go out and buy 00:49:21.400 --> 00:49:23.579 this book. It's by Beth Underwood. It's called 00:49:23.579 --> 00:49:26.420 Gravity. You've got to read this story. These 00:49:26.420 --> 00:49:29.559 men are amazing and this is an amazing story. 00:49:29.920 --> 00:49:31.860 So thank you both very much. I hope to get you 00:49:31.860 --> 00:49:33.980 back on the program to finish talking about this. 00:49:34.239 --> 00:49:36.590 Thank you for being on Veterans Radio. Thank 00:49:36.590 --> 00:49:39.250 you. Thank you so much for having me. It is my 00:49:39.250 --> 00:49:42.349 pleasure. Trust me, both of you. All right, folks, 00:49:42.449 --> 00:49:44.150 that's another story that you've heard about 00:49:44.150 --> 00:49:46.650 here on Veterans Radio and we will be back next 00:49:46.650 --> 00:49:49.389 week. So make sure you tune in. You can go to 00:49:49.389 --> 00:49:51.809 veteransradio .net and you can listen to our 00:49:51.809 --> 00:49:53.969 archives and you can listen to our program and 00:49:53.969 --> 00:49:55.570 look for an email this week. We're looking for 00:49:55.570 --> 00:49:57.849 a little support. You might be hearing from us. 00:49:58.070 --> 00:50:00.809 So until next week, you are dismissed.