WEBVTT 00:00:04.719 --> 00:00:08.519 All across America and around the world, this 00:00:08.519 --> 00:00:13.759 is Veterans Radio. And good afternoon and welcome 00:00:13.759 --> 00:00:16.260 to Veterans Radio. My name is Dale Throneberry. 00:00:16.300 --> 00:00:19.620 This is our final program of 2025. Wow, where 00:00:19.620 --> 00:00:22.539 did that time go? Well, we've got a special one 00:00:22.539 --> 00:00:26.239 for you today. Next year, the Congressional Medal 00:00:26.239 --> 00:00:28.879 of Honor Society is holding its convention in 00:00:28.879 --> 00:00:32.219 Detroit, Michigan. I believe it's September 30th 00:00:32.219 --> 00:00:34.920 to October 3rd. And so we're going to be promoting 00:00:34.920 --> 00:00:37.960 that, of course, throughout next year. And I 00:00:37.960 --> 00:00:40.140 wanted to kind of introduce you to you today. 00:00:40.479 --> 00:00:42.520 So we've got an interview coming up with Jim 00:00:42.520 --> 00:00:46.240 Falzone and the organizers of the Medal of Honor 00:00:46.240 --> 00:00:49.219 Society's convention in Detroit. And then we've 00:00:49.219 --> 00:00:52.640 got the privilege, I think, of interviewing two 00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:56.039 Medal of Honor recipients that we talked to back 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:59.340 in 2018. That was Lieutenant Colonel Charles 00:00:59.340 --> 00:01:04.540 Kettles and Speck. for I believe he was James 00:01:04.540 --> 00:01:07.719 McLuhan and so we recorded that program back 00:01:07.719 --> 00:01:11.000 in 2018 and they're going to be joining us very 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:13.579 shortly so I'm going to get right into this right 00:01:13.579 --> 00:01:16.700 right now if I don't get a chance to talk to 00:01:16.700 --> 00:01:18.859 you at the end of the program we wish you a very 00:01:18.859 --> 00:01:23.280 very happy new year and a great future 2026. 00:01:23.420 --> 00:01:25.560 Gonna be very interesting to see what happens. 00:01:26.120 --> 00:01:28.700 So here's Jim Falzone with the members of the 00:01:28.700 --> 00:01:31.959 organizing committee for the Medal of Honor Society's 00:01:31.959 --> 00:01:34.939 convention in Detroit. We want to welcome to 00:01:34.939 --> 00:01:38.159 Veterans Radio today, two gentlemen who are deeply 00:01:38.159 --> 00:01:43.560 involved in Detroit's efforts, successful efforts. 00:01:43.900 --> 00:01:47.180 to bring the Medal of Honor Society Convention 00:01:47.180 --> 00:01:50.840 to Detroit in October of 2026. One of the things 00:01:50.840 --> 00:01:53.319 you know if you listen to Veterans Radio is we 00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:55.299 kind of get the information before other people 00:01:55.299 --> 00:01:57.840 do and we get to pass it on to you so that you're 00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:01.319 in the know. So we're really happy to talk about 00:02:01.319 --> 00:02:05.620 what's coming a year from now when the living 00:02:05.620 --> 00:02:08.719 Medal of Honor recipients gather in Detroit for 00:02:08.719 --> 00:02:13.219 their annual convention. First up, We have Russell 00:02:13.219 --> 00:02:16.000 Schomburger, who is the chair of the committee. 00:02:16.219 --> 00:02:18.259 Russ, welcome to Veterans Radio. Well, thank 00:02:18.259 --> 00:02:20.080 you, Jim, very much. Appreciate it and looking 00:02:20.080 --> 00:02:21.960 forward to sharing more about the conference 00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:25.659 to the audience. We want to welcome to Veterans 00:02:25.659 --> 00:02:30.680 Radio Adrian Kozikov, who is a committee member 00:02:30.680 --> 00:02:35.139 that's working on this huge effort to bring the 00:02:35.980 --> 00:02:38.419 Congressional Medal of Honor Recipients Convention 00:02:38.419 --> 00:02:42.139 to Detroit in 2026. Adrian, welcome to Veterans 00:02:42.139 --> 00:02:45.219 Radio. Thank you for having me, Jim. Very excited 00:02:45.219 --> 00:02:48.800 to share about the convention. Well, Russ, let's 00:02:48.800 --> 00:02:52.620 start with you. How did you get yourself involved 00:02:52.620 --> 00:02:57.560 in this big task of pulling off the national 00:02:57.560 --> 00:03:00.460 convention? Well, I don't know how much time 00:03:00.460 --> 00:03:06.259 you have, but to make it simple. I am also on 00:03:06.259 --> 00:03:08.520 the board of the Detroit Public Safety Foundation. 00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:12.659 And I've been supporting first responders for 00:03:12.659 --> 00:03:16.659 some time. And I just I met some folks that are 00:03:16.659 --> 00:03:20.419 involved with the recipient community and said, 00:03:20.500 --> 00:03:22.280 you know, we've never had this in the city of 00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:25.639 Detroit, it would be cool to have. So I started 00:03:25.639 --> 00:03:28.539 working with Detroit Public Safety Foundation 00:03:28.539 --> 00:03:33.030 in the society. to win the award or to bring 00:03:33.030 --> 00:03:35.909 it to Detroit, which we were successful on doing. 00:03:36.449 --> 00:03:39.370 And now I find myself having the Tiger by the 00:03:39.370 --> 00:03:43.750 Tail, which is a labor of love. I'm very fortunate 00:03:43.750 --> 00:03:45.810 in my position to be able to give back to the 00:03:45.810 --> 00:03:48.009 community. I've been doing so for about seven 00:03:48.009 --> 00:03:51.469 years for Detroit Public Safety Foundation. And 00:03:51.469 --> 00:03:55.069 it's just all about Detroit, the veteran community 00:03:55.069 --> 00:03:58.610 and giving back. Why don't you expand a little 00:03:58.610 --> 00:04:03.569 bit more on the Detroit Public Safety Organization? 00:04:03.930 --> 00:04:07.930 Because folks can go there and donate for this 00:04:07.930 --> 00:04:11.870 particular Congressional Medal of Honor convention. 00:04:12.669 --> 00:04:15.409 And really, I don't think most folks would go, 00:04:15.490 --> 00:04:17.769 I don't know what the Detroit Public Safety Organization 00:04:17.769 --> 00:04:20.410 is. Well, the Detroit Public Safety Foundation 00:04:20.410 --> 00:04:24.649 is a 501C3. It is the charity of record for this 00:04:24.649 --> 00:04:29.420 conference. And what we do is we take care of 00:04:29.420 --> 00:04:32.920 fallen first responders, their families and things 00:04:32.920 --> 00:04:35.180 of that nature. We do things for youth groups 00:04:35.180 --> 00:04:41.100 within the city and we provide things to the 00:04:41.100 --> 00:04:44.240 first responders. It's just simple little things, 00:04:44.459 --> 00:04:47.180 creature comforts for the fire department, you 00:04:47.180 --> 00:04:49.639 know, their housing, things of that nature. But 00:04:49.639 --> 00:04:51.959 our main focus is giving back to the community 00:04:51.959 --> 00:04:56.779 and taking care of youth programs and first responders 00:04:56.779 --> 00:04:59.420 who are injured or fallen in line of duty. Well, 00:04:59.420 --> 00:05:01.519 clearly the Detroit Public Safety Foundation 00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:06.019 is a very worthy cause and is sort of the base 00:05:06.019 --> 00:05:10.199 here around which this Medal of Honor Convention 00:05:10.199 --> 00:05:13.949 is building. And as you say, it's the financial 00:05:13.949 --> 00:05:19.769 arm of it as well. You can make 501C3 charitable 00:05:19.769 --> 00:05:24.769 deductions, contributions to the Detroit Public 00:05:24.769 --> 00:05:28.470 Safety Foundation for the purposes of supporting 00:05:28.470 --> 00:05:31.269 the Medal of Honor Convention, if I understand 00:05:31.269 --> 00:05:33.470 it right. Exactly. That's perfect. It's perfectly 00:05:33.470 --> 00:05:37.230 stated. Well, Adrian is... fairly clear that 00:05:37.230 --> 00:05:39.529 Russ just stumbled into this, you know, the guy 00:05:39.529 --> 00:05:43.430 with a good idea always finds himself being voluntold. 00:05:43.769 --> 00:05:47.310 Oh good, you're going to lead it. Jim, I say 00:05:47.310 --> 00:05:50.930 no good deed goes unpunished. Absolutely, absolutely. 00:05:51.170 --> 00:05:54.470 Adrian, how did you get involved? You know, I, 00:05:54.569 --> 00:05:57.689 similar, in a similar fashion, I was voluntold 00:05:57.689 --> 00:06:02.410 to get involved in this and thought one of the 00:06:02.490 --> 00:06:05.250 employees and directors at the Medal of Honor 00:06:05.250 --> 00:06:08.310 Society said, hey, Adrian, you'd be a good fit 00:06:08.310 --> 00:06:12.269 for this, and talked with Russ. And Russ said, 00:06:12.350 --> 00:06:14.629 yes, we could use the help. Let's figure out 00:06:14.629 --> 00:06:17.850 a way to get involved. And from there, I started 00:06:17.850 --> 00:06:20.050 getting more involved and seeing how I could 00:06:20.050 --> 00:06:25.230 help. Well, your committee has a number of influential 00:06:25.230 --> 00:06:30.230 people on it. We have a mutual friend in Voli 00:06:30.230 --> 00:06:34.240 Garcia. with the NDIA, with the Michigan Military 00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:38.000 and Veterans Hall of Honor, former state senator 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:41.199 and I know he's really excited about this as 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:43.000 well. Are there other committee members you'd 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:46.279 like to mention? There's none at this time and 00:06:46.279 --> 00:06:48.860 we have some feelers out. What we're doing is 00:06:48.860 --> 00:06:53.620 we have this year's conference coming on next 00:06:53.620 --> 00:06:56.910 week. So that's in Chattanooga. And what we wanted 00:06:56.910 --> 00:06:59.529 to do is go sit down, go through the whole thing. 00:06:59.610 --> 00:07:01.730 We'll be there all week. We're going to set A 00:07:01.730 --> 00:07:05.670 to Z and talk to everybody and say, let's learn 00:07:05.670 --> 00:07:08.610 from lessons learned. What went well? What didn't? 00:07:08.610 --> 00:07:13.730 How should we restructure? straw person, we have 00:07:13.730 --> 00:07:17.329 roles identified, we have task and duties identified, 00:07:17.430 --> 00:07:20.930 we have some names penciled in. But before we 00:07:20.930 --> 00:07:22.829 pull the trigger in that what we wanted to do 00:07:22.829 --> 00:07:25.810 is just go make sure that we've done all of our 00:07:25.810 --> 00:07:29.250 due diligence before we go asking people for, 00:07:29.250 --> 00:07:33.250 you know, time, energy and effort. The Congressional 00:07:33.250 --> 00:07:37.089 Medal of Honor Society is a sort of standalone 00:07:37.089 --> 00:07:41.230 organization itself. And It's a way in which 00:07:41.230 --> 00:07:44.610 people can connect with living Medal of Honor 00:07:44.610 --> 00:07:47.790 recipients and learn more about those who have 00:07:47.790 --> 00:07:51.709 deceased. But do they have conventions every 00:07:51.709 --> 00:07:55.449 year? Yes, they do have conventions every year. 00:07:55.550 --> 00:07:59.410 And they pick a city. You go and make a pitch, 00:07:59.470 --> 00:08:02.209 if you will. And so Valdé and some others went 00:08:02.209 --> 00:08:07.240 down last year. in San Antonio to do the pitch. 00:08:07.819 --> 00:08:11.939 And there's really three purposes for this. And 00:08:11.939 --> 00:08:16.160 I'm, I'm non military. So I'm just a Detroit 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:19.399 fellow that's trying to do a good job for the 00:08:19.399 --> 00:08:24.800 city of Detroit and veterans causes, right? I'm 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:29.139 often flabbergasted by the fact that very few 00:08:29.139 --> 00:08:32.899 people know anything about the society. know 00:08:32.899 --> 00:08:37.200 very little about recipients. When I booked the 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:39.419 venue, and it's going to be at the Motor City 00:08:39.419 --> 00:08:43.840 Casino Hotel next year, some of the people there 00:08:43.840 --> 00:08:45.519 were saying, well, tell me more about what the 00:08:45.519 --> 00:08:48.879 society is, even visit Detroit. And so the main 00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:53.100 purpose of this is to go and communicate all 00:08:53.100 --> 00:08:57.059 about the medal, all about service. all about, 00:08:57.059 --> 00:09:00.659 you know, what what this stands for. The second 00:09:00.659 --> 00:09:06.700 thing is, is really to educate the national audience 00:09:06.700 --> 00:09:10.279 about Detroit. And then finally, what we come 00:09:10.279 --> 00:09:14.860 along with is to raise funds for the society 00:09:14.860 --> 00:09:18.860 itself, and for veterans and youth programs within 00:09:18.860 --> 00:09:22.120 the city. So those I would say in general are 00:09:22.120 --> 00:09:25.580 the three legs of the stool. Adrian, did I forget 00:09:25.580 --> 00:09:28.799 anything? I often get carried away and get excited 00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:32.679 in my exuberance. Yeah, I think that covers it 00:09:32.679 --> 00:09:36.360 very well. One item I would like to add more 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:39.240 to was especially the youth programs. It's to 00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:42.200 help inspire our youth to live by not only youth, 00:09:42.299 --> 00:09:44.240 but the people of Detroit, the people of Michigan, 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:47.279 to live by the values that the medal instills 00:09:47.279 --> 00:09:52.759 in people. Yeah, you know, it's really interesting. 00:09:52.899 --> 00:09:56.279 I think it's one of the things that you're going 00:09:56.279 --> 00:10:00.159 to be able to do is remind the nation of the 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:02.679 contributions that have been made in Southeast 00:10:02.679 --> 00:10:06.480 Michigan, and really Michigan as a whole, to 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:11.980 national defense. The arsenal of democracy, right? 00:10:13.539 --> 00:10:18.159 World War II was largely successful because of 00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:23.220 our induction drill. production and what companies 00:10:23.220 --> 00:10:29.019 like Ford were able to do in turning out necessary 00:10:29.019 --> 00:10:33.320 defense equipment, planes, tanks, the famous 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:36.779 Jeep, right? So it kind of goes both ways. We're 00:10:36.779 --> 00:10:40.100 going to learn what their lives were, what their 00:10:40.100 --> 00:10:43.000 sacrifices were, but hopefully we're also being 00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:45.559 able to pass on that message about what Detroit 00:10:45.559 --> 00:10:48.840 and the area has done for the nation. Yep, it's 00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:52.220 all about education and expanding, you know, 00:10:52.340 --> 00:10:56.340 the reach, the knowledge base of who knows about 00:10:56.340 --> 00:10:58.100 this stuff, right? I mean, there's really just 00:10:58.100 --> 00:11:01.440 a small group that's, I would hate to say fading, 00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:04.860 but it is in some ways, right? And so we're the 00:11:04.860 --> 00:11:08.500 champions, you know, if you don't remember history, 00:11:08.759 --> 00:11:11.700 it will repeat itself in the future. Right. And 00:11:11.700 --> 00:11:14.700 so learning those things, sharing those things. 00:11:14.980 --> 00:11:18.259 And at the end, it's really about, um, you know, 00:11:18.379 --> 00:11:20.600 youth programs and veterans programs as well. 00:11:20.700 --> 00:11:24.139 So it's just a very worthy cause, you know, you 00:11:24.139 --> 00:11:27.279 can mention our website. It is the medal of honor 00:11:27.279 --> 00:11:31.409 Detroit .com. So mark your calendars. September 00:11:31.409 --> 00:11:35.429 30th to October 3rd, 2026, Medal of Honor Society's 00:11:35.429 --> 00:11:37.690 convention in Detroit, Michigan. Alright, so 00:11:37.690 --> 00:11:39.210 we're going to go straight to our interviews 00:11:39.210 --> 00:11:42.850 with Chuck Kettles and Jim McLuhan, Medal of 00:11:42.850 --> 00:11:45.509 Honor recipients from our program in March of 00:11:45.509 --> 00:11:49.549 2018. I get to be the host of an amazing program 00:11:49.549 --> 00:11:52.389 today. I'm really excited to talk to our two 00:11:52.389 --> 00:11:54.309 guests. We've got two Medal of Honor recipients 00:11:54.309 --> 00:11:56.450 that we're going to be talking to today. They 00:11:56.450 --> 00:11:58.970 are both Vietnam veterans. One is a helicopter 00:11:58.970 --> 00:12:01.610 pilot. Another one was a medic. And their stories 00:12:01.610 --> 00:12:04.269 are hair -raising and very exciting. And they 00:12:04.269 --> 00:12:07.649 are probably two of the nicest and most humble 00:12:07.649 --> 00:12:09.909 men I've had the privilege of meeting and talking 00:12:09.909 --> 00:12:12.269 with on this program. How many radio shows do 00:12:12.269 --> 00:12:14.690 you know of that have two Medal of Honor recipients? 00:12:15.039 --> 00:12:18.480 on the program at the same time. In the studio 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:20.700 with me right now is Lieutenant Colonel Charles 00:12:20.700 --> 00:12:23.860 Kettles. And Colonel Kettles received his Medal 00:12:23.860 --> 00:12:28.299 of Honor for action in 1967 in Vietnam as a helicopter 00:12:28.299 --> 00:12:31.700 pilot. So Chuck, welcome back to Veterans Radio. 00:12:32.620 --> 00:12:35.220 Well, thank you. Thank you very much. And joining 00:12:35.220 --> 00:12:38.200 us on the line right now is one of the newest 00:12:38.200 --> 00:12:41.240 Medal of Honor recipients, at least from Michigan 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:45.370 for sure. and his name is James McLuhan, and 00:12:45.370 --> 00:12:47.850 Jim, welcome to Veterans Radio. Well, thank you 00:12:47.850 --> 00:12:50.409 so much. Thank you. And the guys can say hello, 00:12:50.529 --> 00:12:52.169 because you're a member of a very small club. 00:12:52.590 --> 00:12:56.090 Well, we're very small, too, so we fit in real 00:12:56.090 --> 00:12:59.669 well. That's true. You know, I hadn't thought 00:12:59.669 --> 00:13:01.990 about that until I was doing some research on 00:13:01.990 --> 00:13:05.570 this, Jim, and found that you were about, what, 00:13:05.830 --> 00:13:09.629 5 '4", maybe? Yeah, I'm 5 '5". Chuck and I would 00:13:09.629 --> 00:13:11.870 never be chosen by Michigan State to be their 00:13:11.870 --> 00:13:17.350 center. Yeah, but you guys cause all kinds of 00:13:17.350 --> 00:13:19.509 chaos by just running around. Oh yeah, we would. 00:13:19.889 --> 00:13:25.129 We'd take them right out at the knees. Well, 00:13:25.309 --> 00:13:27.250 I want to thank you very much for being on the 00:13:27.250 --> 00:13:29.950 program, Jim. It's an honor and a privilege for 00:13:29.950 --> 00:13:32.809 me to talk to the both of you. And I'm going 00:13:32.809 --> 00:13:36.409 to ask Chuck first to talk a little bit about 00:13:36.409 --> 00:13:40.700 his medal. And just kind of review for our audience, 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:44.019 you received yours for being a helicopter pilot. 00:13:44.799 --> 00:13:51.320 And what did you do? I'll try to keep that brief. 00:13:53.399 --> 00:13:56.440 It was a mission that lasted most of one day 00:13:56.440 --> 00:14:02.039 and involved inserting a total of 160 troops 00:14:02.039 --> 00:14:07.250 into an LZ. During the course of the day, they 00:14:07.250 --> 00:14:11.769 had walked into an ambush and it took its toll. 00:14:12.769 --> 00:14:17.029 At the end of the day, that is about 1900 or 00:14:17.029 --> 00:14:20.289 seven o 'clock in the evening, the battalion 00:14:20.289 --> 00:14:23.629 commander requested emergency extraction of the 00:14:23.629 --> 00:14:28.570 remaining 40 troops plus four of my crew members 00:14:28.570 --> 00:14:31.649 from a helicopter that had taken a mortar round 00:14:31.649 --> 00:14:35.139 on the... mass to the helicopter and was destroyed 00:14:35.139 --> 00:14:38.899 in place. They, of course, immediately ended 00:14:38.899 --> 00:14:42.320 up being infantry troops. So there was a total 00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:49.299 of 44 troops. The unit from which I came from 00:14:49.299 --> 00:14:54.600 was reduced down to where we only had one remaining 00:14:54.600 --> 00:15:01.120 UH -1D helicopter flyable to make the extraction, 00:15:01.220 --> 00:15:05.330 so we borrowed five from the 161st, which was 00:15:05.330 --> 00:15:09.009 about 30 miles up the road, and rendezvoused 00:15:09.009 --> 00:15:13.669 in the area of the LZ landing zone, and went 00:15:13.669 --> 00:15:19.129 in in a trail formation. And shortly after we 00:15:19.129 --> 00:15:24.309 landed, the troops of course loaded and the aft 00:15:24.309 --> 00:15:27.269 helicopter crew members advised that everyone 00:15:27.269 --> 00:15:30.649 was loaded, so I gave a thumbs up to the co -pilot. 00:15:31.500 --> 00:15:37.320 to take us out. And I did a 180 in the air coming 00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:42.120 back toward the base and was advised that there 00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:45.940 were still eight troops down in that landing 00:15:45.940 --> 00:15:49.480 zone in the riverbed who had been putting up 00:15:49.480 --> 00:15:54.200 a last -ditch defense, protecting those who were 00:15:54.200 --> 00:15:57.299 boarding but didn't get on a helicopter themselves. 00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:05.120 So they were down there against battalion size, 00:16:05.620 --> 00:16:12.059 North Vietnamese Army battalion, and bad scene. 00:16:13.460 --> 00:16:17.340 Anyway, I told the commander that I would, of 00:16:17.340 --> 00:16:20.559 course, go right down and pick them up. I had 00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:24.919 picked up only one ground troop. They went to 00:16:24.919 --> 00:16:32.019 the nearest helicopter and got on board. I was 00:16:32.019 --> 00:16:35.320 in the left seat, and the troops were to my left. 00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:40.019 So I took control and headed into the valley 00:16:40.019 --> 00:16:44.519 to pick up the eight. And immediately on touchdown, 00:16:45.259 --> 00:16:48.559 or a few seconds later, mortar round went off 00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:52.220 the nose of the helicopter, which took out part 00:16:52.220 --> 00:16:55.639 of the windshields left and right, the chin bubble 00:16:55.639 --> 00:17:01.460 where I sat, and of course the troops. loaded 00:17:01.460 --> 00:17:06.980 up pretty fast. As one stated in Washington prior 00:17:06.980 --> 00:17:11.259 to the ceremony for the MOH, when interviewed 00:17:11.259 --> 00:17:17.480 by the press, he said, well, after I landed, 00:17:17.900 --> 00:17:21.980 he started running toward the helicopter. And 00:17:21.980 --> 00:17:24.119 he said the tracers were going past his head. 00:17:25.019 --> 00:17:27.099 But he said, and then he really began running. 00:17:27.859 --> 00:17:33.529 And he was staying ahead of the tracers. So he 00:17:33.529 --> 00:17:43.809 must have had a hell of a pace. Well, as I learned 00:17:43.809 --> 00:17:49.289 later, the helicopter, when the copilot picked 00:17:49.289 --> 00:17:53.470 it up, it fished ill rather violently and it 00:17:53.470 --> 00:17:58.599 threw one of the grunts out the left door. He 00:17:58.599 --> 00:18:04.019 grabbed the skid on the way out, and his compatriots 00:18:04.019 --> 00:18:09.900 pulled him back in. But then the mortar round 00:18:09.900 --> 00:18:17.839 went off beneath the tailbone. And a rather dramatic 00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:22.680 departure. But the helicopter was over gross 00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:25.019 weight by probably six, seven hundred pounds, 00:18:25.140 --> 00:18:27.849 and it flew like that, too. about like a two 00:18:27.849 --> 00:18:29.890 -and -a -half ton truck with a rotor system on 00:18:29.890 --> 00:18:39.509 it. And in order to sustain flight, you couldn't 00:18:39.509 --> 00:18:43.230 because it was too heavy. And so we did a combination 00:18:43.230 --> 00:18:49.369 of a running landing wherein you simply lower 00:18:49.369 --> 00:18:53.740 the collective pitch because the... engine was 00:18:53.740 --> 00:18:56.460 not strong enough to maintain rotor RPM normal 00:18:56.460 --> 00:18:59.519 and there's no point in continuing to pull because 00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:05.400 it's just going to settle further. And after 00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:10.799 a jackrabbit departure down the riverbed allowing 00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:16.400 the helicopter to come back down on the skid, 00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:21.099 the nose of the skid to regain the rotor RPM. 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:28.039 I could fly it again, treating that RPM for forward 00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:34.099 speed to get about 40 knots. After about five 00:19:34.099 --> 00:19:37.920 or six of those, jack rabbit. So you're bouncing 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:43.980 down this little river bed? Yes. Anyway, I wasn't 00:19:43.980 --> 00:19:47.019 sure whether I was going to get up and go or 00:19:47.019 --> 00:19:49.240 13 of us were going to be down there with Charlie. 00:19:50.869 --> 00:19:54.630 But fortunately, it did de -burn, like a good 00:19:54.630 --> 00:19:59.849 fellow, and went back to base. Alright, that's 00:19:59.849 --> 00:20:03.009 enough of that one. I have goosebumps already, 00:20:03.089 --> 00:20:05.130 and I'm just sitting here. For those of you who 00:20:05.130 --> 00:20:06.369 have listened to the program for a long time, 00:20:06.390 --> 00:20:09.529 I was a helicopter pilot myself, and I'm just 00:20:09.529 --> 00:20:11.829 sitting here reliving the bouncing to try and 00:20:11.829 --> 00:20:15.410 get off the ground sometimes when you know you're 00:20:15.410 --> 00:20:16.829 overloaded, but you've got to get these guys 00:20:16.829 --> 00:20:20.619 out of these places. Wow. And no chin bubble. 00:20:20.980 --> 00:20:22.799 So the air conditioning was working very well. 00:20:23.140 --> 00:20:26.380 Yes. That was the good side of it. That was the 00:20:26.380 --> 00:20:30.480 good side. Where did this happen, Chuck? Well, 00:20:30.500 --> 00:20:35.140 it was north, north -northwest out of Duck Fo, 00:20:35.259 --> 00:20:38.619 which is up in the Central Highland area, which 00:20:38.619 --> 00:20:42.400 is south of Da Nang, Duck Fo, as that is. And 00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:49.089 it's about probably 22 clicks. The reason I ask 00:20:49.089 --> 00:20:50.670 that question, and Jim, I'm going to bring you 00:20:50.670 --> 00:20:52.930 in on the conversation right now, if you don't 00:20:52.930 --> 00:20:56.390 mind, is that where did your action take place? 00:20:57.390 --> 00:21:00.630 Well, first of all, let me say without guys like 00:21:00.630 --> 00:21:06.450 Chuck, my job is nil and void. I can go out and 00:21:06.450 --> 00:21:09.049 bring them in and patch them up, but unless we 00:21:09.049 --> 00:21:11.769 get them out of there into a hospital and taken 00:21:11.769 --> 00:21:14.390 care of, that's where the this old coach knows 00:21:14.390 --> 00:21:18.509 where the real teamwork comes in so we were very 00:21:18.509 --> 00:21:22.430 fortunate to have those guys come down and get 00:21:22.430 --> 00:21:25.990 our guys even in the dangerous situations that 00:21:25.990 --> 00:21:28.089 they were operating in sometimes you know they 00:21:28.089 --> 00:21:31.390 were coming into the area where bullets are flying 00:21:31.390 --> 00:21:34.829 all over the place as you well heard there and 00:21:34.829 --> 00:21:39.150 a lot of brave men came down to help us out so 00:21:39.150 --> 00:21:45.220 my place and off of chulai northwest of chulai 00:21:45.220 --> 00:21:49.500 in the tamki area with a hill called new yon 00:21:49.500 --> 00:21:53.519 hill uh... in may thirteenth uh... we were combat 00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:56.680 assaulted in there speaking of helicopters they 00:21:56.680 --> 00:22:00.039 couldn't land because it was a hot LZ so we jumped 00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:02.740 out at about ten feet and all of us with our 00:22:02.740 --> 00:22:06.779 packs and everything uh... two helicopters shot 00:22:06.779 --> 00:22:14.519 down uh... my first uh... A guy coming in from 00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:18.460 a squad that had helped the crew from the second 00:22:18.460 --> 00:22:21.980 helicopter that got shot down come into our perimeter. 00:22:23.099 --> 00:22:27.200 We couldn't get another helicopter in to pull 00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:32.000 the crew out so we brought them in with our squad 00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:36.839 and a guy was lingering behind. He had gotten 00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:40.000 injured jumping out of the helicopter and he 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:42.059 had injured his knee. I thought he was wounded. 00:22:42.709 --> 00:22:46.250 And everybody else was in about 100 yards before 00:22:46.250 --> 00:22:49.349 him. So I jumped up and sprinted to him and slid 00:22:49.349 --> 00:22:51.650 in next to him, asking where he was hit. And 00:22:51.650 --> 00:22:53.930 he said, I'm not hit. I hurt my knee getting 00:22:53.930 --> 00:22:56.329 out of the helicopter. And I looked at it by 00:22:56.329 --> 00:22:59.150 the size of a volleyball. So I figured I was 00:22:59.150 --> 00:23:00.930 going to throw him up on my shoulders. And I 00:23:00.930 --> 00:23:02.809 said, hang on to your M16. You're going up on 00:23:02.809 --> 00:23:06.190 my shoulders. And I weaved my way in. And luckily, 00:23:06.529 --> 00:23:09.589 we didn't get hit by either the NBA that were 00:23:09.589 --> 00:23:12.829 assaulting us nor my own men who were. you know, 00:23:13.029 --> 00:23:16.750 shooting at the NBA. And so I was lucky to get 00:23:16.750 --> 00:23:21.029 him in out. Everything was OK until that evening. 00:23:21.910 --> 00:23:26.269 Let me back up a little bit. Our company commander 00:23:26.269 --> 00:23:28.930 told the battalion commander that this was a 00:23:28.930 --> 00:23:31.470 flawed mission. He said, well, why do you say 00:23:31.470 --> 00:23:33.069 that? And he said, well, you haven't sent any 00:23:33.069 --> 00:23:35.410 forward observations in there, and I only have 00:23:35.410 --> 00:23:38.390 89 minutes. So we don't know how many people 00:23:38.390 --> 00:23:40.950 we're going to be up against. And he told them, 00:23:41.150 --> 00:23:46.809 The commander told Ernie Carrier, our company, 00:23:46.970 --> 00:23:49.329 that he either takes us in or he gets court -martialed. 00:23:49.549 --> 00:23:52.210 Well, I'm glad he took us in because he knows 00:23:52.210 --> 00:23:56.309 it was his second tour and he knows how to bring 00:23:56.309 --> 00:23:59.109 in the types of things we need to protect us. 00:23:59.569 --> 00:24:01.529 And I wouldn't be sitting there talking to you 00:24:01.529 --> 00:24:04.089 if he hadn't taken us in. They would have court 00:24:04.089 --> 00:24:05.670 -martialed him anyway and they would have sent 00:24:05.670 --> 00:24:09.170 somebody else in in his place, so he did the 00:24:09.170 --> 00:24:12.680 right thing. So that evening we go out with my 00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:15.779 platoon out towards the hill. We were ordered 00:24:15.779 --> 00:24:21.039 to do so by battalion and we hit an ambush out 00:24:21.039 --> 00:24:25.720 there and I immediately heard two guys yelling 00:24:25.720 --> 00:24:29.039 for a medic jumped up on a berm and that's when 00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:32.220 I got hit the first time by rocket propel grenade 00:24:32.220 --> 00:24:36.559 pulling them into a trench line. I was in the 00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:39.609 trench line with them looked up and about 10 00:24:39.609 --> 00:24:42.170 meters away were two NBA looking me square in 00:24:42.170 --> 00:24:44.589 the eye and I had given up my weapon to go and 00:24:44.589 --> 00:24:46.750 get these two guys so I had nothing to defend 00:24:46.750 --> 00:24:49.750 myself and it's just them and me and they had 00:24:49.750 --> 00:24:52.849 no weapons because they had retreated from the 00:24:52.849 --> 00:24:55.369 ambush and we're in a couple of bushes on top 00:24:55.369 --> 00:24:58.390 of that berm. So I said follow me man and I started 00:24:58.390 --> 00:25:00.250 running and I was running through the trench 00:25:00.250 --> 00:25:03.309 line it was slowing me down so I jumped up out 00:25:03.309 --> 00:25:06.470 of the trench line and ran the best 40 -yard 00:25:06.470 --> 00:25:09.559 dash I've ever ran in my life, swerving. with 00:25:09.559 --> 00:25:11.720 the bullets kind of bouncing off the ground. 00:25:12.019 --> 00:25:16.720 I got about 40 yards away from them and I can 00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:20.319 now hear my machine gunners firing back at them. 00:25:21.240 --> 00:25:25.779 So I heard somebody call the medic and I went 00:25:25.779 --> 00:25:28.819 back into the kill zone and pulled another man 00:25:28.819 --> 00:25:32.359 out. We did this about four or five times that 00:25:32.359 --> 00:25:35.980 night and finally they backed off a little bit. 00:25:35.980 --> 00:25:38.970 We got a helicopter in and as I got everybody 00:25:38.970 --> 00:25:41.769 on the lieutenant looked at me and said get on 00:25:41.769 --> 00:25:44.289 doc and that's when I remembered I'd gotten hit 00:25:44.289 --> 00:25:47.470 out there and I had mother's blood all over me 00:25:47.470 --> 00:25:51.230 I'd gotten hit from head to toe with the fragmentations 00:25:51.230 --> 00:25:55.450 and so I said I'm not going I'd gotten close 00:25:55.450 --> 00:25:57.789 enough to the hill out there that I looked up 00:25:57.789 --> 00:26:02.089 and realized that there were a lot of them out 00:26:02.089 --> 00:26:04.369 there they looked like lava coming down off of 00:26:04.369 --> 00:26:08.849 that hill and so I told him i wasn't going because 00:26:08.849 --> 00:26:14.170 he was going to need me and uh... uh... they 00:26:14.170 --> 00:26:18.769 but harassed us all night long and uh... you 00:26:18.769 --> 00:26:21.109 mentioned that i don't mean to interrupt but 00:26:21.109 --> 00:26:22.930 i listened to another interview that you did 00:26:22.930 --> 00:26:25.910 you mentioned that during the night they uh... 00:26:25.910 --> 00:26:29.009 they had women screaming and dogs barking yeah 00:26:29.009 --> 00:26:31.910 they had dogs barking women screaming so i don't 00:26:31.910 --> 00:26:35.559 know if the nba were assault you know uh... abusing 00:26:35.559 --> 00:26:39.440 them or that was part of their own ploy to to 00:26:39.440 --> 00:26:41.599 make a go we i knew there was a lot out there 00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:43.700 a lot of people didn't know how many were out 00:26:43.700 --> 00:26:47.279 there because though only one guy escaped the 00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:50.700 front squad that got ambushed and he ran quickly 00:26:50.700 --> 00:26:53.720 so he didn't see what i saw either but i'll tell 00:26:53.720 --> 00:26:55.500 you what i knew there was a lot i don't know 00:26:55.500 --> 00:26:58.759 how many i knew there were a lot of them out 00:26:58.759 --> 00:27:02.220 there and uh... yeah they they harass us all 00:27:02.220 --> 00:27:05.829 night long and they were just with next day they 00:27:05.829 --> 00:27:08.829 didn't bother us all day long but then the next 00:27:08.829 --> 00:27:14.049 night battalion ordered us to move out as a company 00:27:14.049 --> 00:27:17.869 towards the hill and i'm thinking are they nuts 00:27:17.869 --> 00:27:21.190 did they not see that we had two helicopter shot 00:27:21.190 --> 00:27:26.670 down coming in we had a uh... platoon annihilated 00:27:26.670 --> 00:27:29.049 the night before going in that direction and 00:27:29.049 --> 00:27:31.750 their excuse was if we move they might not know 00:27:31.750 --> 00:27:35.359 where we were And I'm thinking, well, yeah, they 00:27:35.359 --> 00:27:37.519 know where we're at. Matter of fact, they're 00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:39.599 probably closer to us than they were before. 00:27:39.599 --> 00:27:43.240 And of course, they were closer to us. So first 00:27:43.240 --> 00:27:46.200 platoon got hit a lot earlier than my second 00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:50.079 platoon got hit the night before. And we only 00:27:50.079 --> 00:27:52.960 had one other medic left, and his name was Daniel 00:27:52.960 --> 00:27:56.420 Shade. Is the name Becca Bell with you or not? 00:27:56.720 --> 00:27:59.759 It does. It does. He was on my list of Medal 00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:03.500 of Honor recipients. Yes, he is. As far as I 00:28:03.500 --> 00:28:06.180 know, this was unprecedented that two medics 00:28:06.180 --> 00:28:09.859 in the same battle from the same company were 00:28:09.859 --> 00:28:15.759 not only in a huge battle, but both received 00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:18.660 the Congressional Medal of Honor. He, about his 00:28:18.660 --> 00:28:21.680 fourth time out, was killed. So I actually retrieved 00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:25.160 his body and took over for the rest of the company 00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:29.599 for that night. I was hit twice more in my retrieving 00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:35.839 about four or five more guys. out there we were 00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:37.640 trying to get some resupply and because we were 00:28:37.640 --> 00:28:41.380 getting really low and trying to get a resupply 00:28:41.380 --> 00:28:45.559 in and I saw these streaks coming over the top 00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:48.079 of me as I laid prone out there and I thought 00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:50.920 wow that can only be a rocket propelled grenade 00:28:50.920 --> 00:28:54.359 well later on I by the way we didn't get anything 00:28:54.359 --> 00:28:57.299 in and I'm laying there thinking you know what 00:28:57.299 --> 00:29:01.440 if they kick that ammunition out towards this 00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:03.900 blinking light it's going to land right on top 00:29:03.900 --> 00:29:08.079 of me but they couldn't get close enough and 00:29:08.079 --> 00:29:11.359 so they retreated. We didn't get any more ammunition. 00:29:12.380 --> 00:29:15.000 I shut off the blinking light, got back to the 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:17.880 front and I had to go back and forth all night 00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:21.380 long because I had two critically wounded soldiers, 00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:24.000 one with a stomach wound, one with a really bad 00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:26.339 shoulder wound and the shoulder one I was afraid 00:29:26.339 --> 00:29:29.059 was going to go into shock. So I used all three 00:29:29.059 --> 00:29:32.279 of my morphine threats that night to keep him 00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:40.180 from my water, I kept moistness on the bandages 00:29:40.180 --> 00:29:42.519 of the stomach wound so that the insides would 00:29:42.519 --> 00:29:46.099 not dry up. But we made it through the night. 00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:49.480 I killed a guy that was actually, he was shooting 00:29:49.480 --> 00:29:51.519 a rocket -propelled grenade from behind a tree 00:29:51.519 --> 00:29:58.740 where I'd left my pack back there. The baseball 00:29:58.740 --> 00:30:03.299 coach happened to throw an air burst his way 00:30:03.299 --> 00:30:06.220 and pull the pin out. a grenade counted to three 00:30:06.220 --> 00:30:08.259 and then threw it and it burst in the air right 00:30:08.259 --> 00:30:10.779 in front of him so he went down and was out. 00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:14.700 So we fought all night long, passed it down the 00:30:14.700 --> 00:30:16.500 line, we were getting low to keep one bullet 00:30:16.500 --> 00:30:19.920 for yourself in case we didn't make it through, 00:30:20.819 --> 00:30:25.200 but we did. Thanks to the Marines coming in with 00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:27.480 their Cobras and the Air Force coming in with 00:30:27.480 --> 00:30:30.240 their Spooky and of course the Navy shooting 00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:33.619 from about four, five, six miles away on China 00:30:33.619 --> 00:30:38.099 Sea. Over on to the enemy too. So the big team 00:30:38.099 --> 00:30:43.400 helped us out and we thought like Like a cat 00:30:43.400 --> 00:30:47.700 current cornered what by five or six dogs, right 00:30:47.700 --> 00:30:51.880 and We made it I was wounded twice the second 00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:55.119 evening This is the brief version. We're going 00:30:55.119 --> 00:30:56.839 to take a break here in a minute or so, and then 00:30:56.839 --> 00:30:58.779 we're going to get into the details a little 00:30:58.779 --> 00:31:01.460 bit more because both of you have amazing stories. 00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:03.900 I want to remind our audience that we're talking 00:31:03.900 --> 00:31:05.660 with two Medal of Honor recipients here. We've 00:31:05.660 --> 00:31:08.039 got Lieutenant Colonel Chuck Kettles. He was 00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:11.700 a helicopter pilot in Vietnam and received an 00:31:11.700 --> 00:31:14.519 award for his actions in 1967. And we've got 00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:20.799 Jim McLaughlin, who is a... a medic in Vietnam 00:31:20.799 --> 00:31:23.579 and received his medal for his actions in uh... 00:31:23.579 --> 00:31:26.420 nineteen sixty -eight uh... sixty -nine sixty 00:31:26.420 --> 00:31:28.420 -nine sixty -nine i'm sorry that was when i was 00:31:28.420 --> 00:31:31.339 there is this one of those questions where hey 00:31:31.339 --> 00:31:36.799 did you know so -and -so uh... but anyway we 00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:38.920 want our audience to give us a call here if you've 00:31:38.920 --> 00:31:41.000 got a question for these two gentlemen uh... 00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:42.440 this is going to be it's a great opportunity 00:31:42.440 --> 00:31:44.920 for your number here is seven three four eight 00:31:44.920 --> 00:31:49.920 two two sixteen hundred And I think that you'd 00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:51.640 be more than happy to answer your questions. 00:31:52.220 --> 00:31:53.799 We're going to be taking a break for the news. 00:31:53.940 --> 00:31:55.420 We're going to be playing a Medal of Honor segment 00:31:55.420 --> 00:31:57.640 that we do every week. Actually, this one's going 00:31:57.640 --> 00:32:01.019 to be for Bud Day. Maybe you've met him too at 00:32:01.019 --> 00:32:05.079 some point. He was a pilot. And so we'll be right 00:32:05.079 --> 00:32:07.160 back after these messages. You're listening to 00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:34.730 Veterans Radio. Now we're back on Veterans Radio 00:32:34.730 --> 00:32:37.009 and I didn't have the opportunity to record segments 00:32:37.009 --> 00:32:40.349 for our two guests today, but if you're just 00:32:40.349 --> 00:32:42.109 tuning in we are talking with two Medal of Honor 00:32:42.109 --> 00:32:45.069 recipients from Ypsilanti, Michigan. We are talking 00:32:45.069 --> 00:32:47.990 with Lieutenant Colonel retired Charles Kettles. 00:32:47.990 --> 00:32:51.509 He received his award in 1967 or for actions 00:32:51.509 --> 00:32:55.869 in 1967 as a helicopter pilot went back in and 00:32:55.869 --> 00:32:58.130 brought out a bunch of people that got left in 00:32:58.130 --> 00:33:00.789 an LZ. That's a landing zone. It's a place where 00:33:00.789 --> 00:33:03.339 you're all by yourself. You want to get out of 00:33:03.339 --> 00:33:06.299 there. The other gentleman on the program is 00:33:06.299 --> 00:33:09.720 Jim McLuhan, and Jim received his Medal of Honor 00:33:09.720 --> 00:33:13.440 for actions in 1969. He's from South Haven, Michigan. 00:33:13.619 --> 00:33:16.220 He just recently received his medal from President 00:33:16.220 --> 00:33:19.240 Trump. Both of you gentlemen, I'm going to go 00:33:19.240 --> 00:33:22.240 to, we're drafted, which I think is kind of interesting. 00:33:22.299 --> 00:33:24.299 I don't think people think about that that much. 00:33:25.019 --> 00:33:27.359 Jim, let me ask you about, you had an interesting 00:33:27.359 --> 00:33:29.660 story because you had just graduated from college. 00:33:30.789 --> 00:33:33.789 Yes, I had I not only graduated but I'd signed 00:33:33.789 --> 00:33:36.849 a contract to teach and coach at South Haven 00:33:36.849 --> 00:33:40.369 High School in May before I did graduate and 00:33:40.369 --> 00:33:44.089 then Was ordered to take physical in July and 00:33:44.089 --> 00:33:46.809 inducted in August. Yep. Yeah, we know how those 00:33:46.809 --> 00:33:49.690 things go You get that letter and it's you know, 00:33:49.829 --> 00:33:52.470 how much time have I got? Yeah, it was it was 00:33:52.470 --> 00:33:54.309 my uncle I don't know if you know him or not 00:33:54.309 --> 00:33:57.730 was uncle Sam. Oh that guy need to go on a vacation 00:33:57.730 --> 00:34:00.559 before I taught school That was nice of him. 00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:03.420 Chuck, you also got that same letter back in 00:34:03.420 --> 00:34:06.119 1950 -something for the Korean War, didn't you? 00:34:06.500 --> 00:34:09.820 That's correct. I had been attending what was 00:34:09.820 --> 00:34:12.480 then Michigan State Normal College. Been there 00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:19.599 for two years. Not a particularly sterling report, 00:34:20.380 --> 00:34:24.840 but anyway, I had dropped out in the fall of 00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:29.440 51 to... I've been working for American Airlines 00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:35.239 throwing baggage at night and also working day 00:34:35.239 --> 00:34:39.219 for Kaiser Fraser Export Corporation. So I was 00:34:39.219 --> 00:34:41.360 working the two jobs and decided I would continue 00:34:41.360 --> 00:34:46.360 to do that both for full time and do that for 00:34:46.360 --> 00:34:50.619 the fall and then go back to school in January. 00:34:51.659 --> 00:34:57.000 Well, Uncle Sam had other ideas and sent me one 00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:00.730 of the infamous letters. The greeting letter. 00:35:01.309 --> 00:35:05.269 Yeah, but frankly it was kind of a relief because 00:35:05.269 --> 00:35:09.989 they'd let me go to bed probably by 10 o 'clock 00:35:09.989 --> 00:35:13.250 at night. They didn't get me up until probably 00:35:13.250 --> 00:35:18.949 6 o 'clock. So it was quite a change. So you're 00:35:18.949 --> 00:35:22.670 only working one job. Yes, and they took care 00:35:22.670 --> 00:35:25.989 of feeding me and doing my clothes and everything 00:35:25.989 --> 00:35:29.559 else. I thought Nothing wrong with this one. 00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:32.840 I didn't quite agree with that particular analysis 00:35:32.840 --> 00:35:34.760 of the whole thing, although I did like the idea 00:35:34.760 --> 00:35:39.719 of the free food. So Jim, you had graduated from 00:35:39.719 --> 00:35:42.679 college, and how did you end up becoming a medic? 00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:47.800 Well, I've got a couple of theories on that. 00:35:48.860 --> 00:35:54.769 When I first got to Fort Knox, They put us in 00:35:54.769 --> 00:35:57.710 a house for a couple of days while we did all 00:35:57.710 --> 00:36:00.110 our paperwork and got this wonderful haircut 00:36:00.110 --> 00:36:03.289 and all of our shots and everything. There was 00:36:03.289 --> 00:36:05.429 a guy that had just gotten back from Vietnam 00:36:05.429 --> 00:36:09.610 and he was a medic in Vietnam. He and I were 00:36:09.610 --> 00:36:14.250 older. He was 23 and I was 22, fresh out of college. 00:36:14.429 --> 00:36:18.150 So we hit it off and we talked to each other 00:36:18.150 --> 00:36:23.190 about our personal lives. I told him about some 00:36:23.190 --> 00:36:27.570 of the courses that I'd taken to become a coach 00:36:27.570 --> 00:36:31.250 at Olivet, Kinesiology, Physiology, Anatomy, 00:36:31.429 --> 00:36:35.409 First Aid. So I think either they noticed it 00:36:35.409 --> 00:36:37.230 up at headquarters or he went up there and said, 00:36:37.230 --> 00:36:39.730 you know, this guy, you're not going to prepare 00:36:39.730 --> 00:36:41.250 him for what he's going to see him getting on, 00:36:41.269 --> 00:36:43.289 but he's got a little step up and I think you 00:36:43.289 --> 00:36:47.320 ought to send him to medical school. I was a 00:36:47.320 --> 00:36:49.420 draftee, so I don't get my choice, you know. 00:36:50.539 --> 00:36:54.260 Usually a draftees don't get those kinds of jobs, 00:36:54.599 --> 00:36:57.800 and I considered my job a positive job in a negative 00:36:57.800 --> 00:37:01.079 situation, being able to save lives. So I was 00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:04.900 very grateful that whatever the reason, whether 00:37:04.900 --> 00:37:07.639 they discovered or this young man went up and 00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:12.300 told them what he knew, I was extremely blessed 00:37:12.300 --> 00:37:15.760 to become a combat medic. Well, you mentioned 00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:19.500 in your story that you went out on one of these 00:37:19.500 --> 00:37:22.239 missions, your first mission out in the field, 00:37:22.460 --> 00:37:30.159 was this event? My first what? For the action 00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:31.699 where you received the Medal of Honor for, was 00:37:31.699 --> 00:37:35.059 that on your very first mission in country? No, 00:37:35.219 --> 00:37:39.500 no. But my very first day with my unit, we hit 00:37:39.500 --> 00:37:42.880 an ambush, we had two killed, three wounded, 00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:46.539 and I... killed my first enemy soldier so i i 00:37:46.539 --> 00:37:48.619 was initiated real quickly that would have been 00:37:48.619 --> 00:37:51.980 in march the uh... night i got in country on 00:37:51.980 --> 00:37:55.219 the seventh and by march ninth march nine they 00:37:55.219 --> 00:37:57.199 needed a medic in the charlie company and that's 00:37:57.199 --> 00:37:59.940 where they sent me the medics and the officers 00:37:59.940 --> 00:38:02.820 were assigned to a headquarters unit so if you 00:38:02.820 --> 00:38:05.139 look at a roster of charlie company you won't 00:38:05.139 --> 00:38:09.480 see the the uh... officers nor the medics and 00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:11.480 that roster there on the roster of the headquarters 00:38:11.480 --> 00:38:14.820 or assigned to but I don't know why they ever 00:38:14.820 --> 00:38:18.400 did that, because I was a Charlie Company soldier. 00:38:19.460 --> 00:38:23.500 OK. So on May 13th, when you went out into this 00:38:23.500 --> 00:38:26.199 field, I want you to kind of, for our audience's 00:38:26.199 --> 00:38:30.360 sake, if you could describe all the bad guys 00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:33.460 that you saw. You have a great metaphor for that 00:38:33.460 --> 00:38:36.679 in one of the things that I read. When you ended 00:38:36.679 --> 00:38:39.260 up, you were dropped off in this LZ, and everybody's 00:38:39.260 --> 00:38:41.119 getting shot at and all these other things. And 00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:43.230 you looked up across. you know about a hundred 00:38:43.230 --> 00:38:45.570 yards out or more and you start seeing these 00:38:45.570 --> 00:38:48.110 people these figures coming down a mountainside 00:38:48.110 --> 00:38:51.809 or hillside. That was when I was out the first 00:38:51.809 --> 00:38:55.610 night when my platoon was sent out and we were 00:38:55.610 --> 00:38:58.090 out there about well I don't even know how far 00:38:58.090 --> 00:39:01.909 we went but I was about three -quarters of a 00:39:01.909 --> 00:39:04.869 mile from New Yon Hill when I looked up on the 00:39:04.869 --> 00:39:08.510 hill and saw this lava flowing off of that hill. 00:39:08.570 --> 00:39:11.699 I knew there was a lot of them. I didn't know 00:39:11.699 --> 00:39:14.760 how many, but I knew there was a lot more than 00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:18.739 we had on that hill. They were coming our way. 00:39:19.400 --> 00:39:21.900 And how big was the unit that you were involved 00:39:21.900 --> 00:39:26.559 with, our size unit, how big was that? Our unit? 00:39:26.699 --> 00:39:30.820 Yeah. 89. So you had 89, and the number that 00:39:30.820 --> 00:39:34.119 I read was approximately 2 ,000 bad guys were 00:39:34.119 --> 00:39:37.679 coming down on you. Yeah, there's been several... 00:39:38.170 --> 00:39:41.349 count, but we know there was at least 700 BC 00:39:41.349 --> 00:39:46.769 and then there was anywhere from 1500 to 2000 00:39:46.769 --> 00:39:52.429 NBA also on that hill. So they were dug in. It 00:39:52.429 --> 00:39:57.710 really is amazing that anybody was able to survive 00:39:57.710 --> 00:40:00.489 that. Yeah, I shouldn't be talking with you on 00:40:00.489 --> 00:40:02.750 the phone. There's no doubt about that. Well, 00:40:02.849 --> 00:40:06.110 I think that Colonel Kettle could probably relate 00:40:06.110 --> 00:40:08.630 to that too. I mean, just sitting Sitting in 00:40:08.630 --> 00:40:10.610 an LZ with people shooting at you is not the 00:40:10.610 --> 00:40:12.949 safest feeling I've ever had in my life. How 00:40:12.949 --> 00:40:17.369 about you? No, I can think of a better environment. 00:40:18.489 --> 00:40:21.190 These guys are so humble. Oh, well, it's just 00:40:21.190 --> 00:40:24.670 another day at the office. Well, I'll tell you 00:40:24.670 --> 00:40:27.289 what. You know, we both know that that medal 00:40:27.289 --> 00:40:30.010 isn't ours. I've heard Chuck say the same thing. 00:40:31.010 --> 00:40:34.269 I just kind of am the caretaker for the 89 men. 00:40:34.590 --> 00:40:36.949 went in whether they made it or didn't make it 00:40:36.949 --> 00:40:41.449 because um uh there you know the leading scorer 00:40:41.449 --> 00:40:43.630 in a basketball game doesn't do that by himself 00:40:43.630 --> 00:40:46.750 somebody has to feed him the ball and that quarterback 00:40:46.750 --> 00:40:49.230 that came in for alabama that freshman quarterback 00:40:49.230 --> 00:40:52.409 and threw three touchdown passes to be number 00:40:52.409 --> 00:40:54.730 one in the nation he had to have a good line 00:40:54.730 --> 00:40:57.369 blocking for him and a guy that scores a winning 00:40:57.369 --> 00:40:59.909 run of baseball game somebody has to hit him 00:40:59.909 --> 00:41:02.969 home so we're chuck and i are both aware of that 00:41:03.719 --> 00:41:07.880 It's not our medal. No, in my case it belongs 00:41:07.880 --> 00:41:11.980 to what I regard as some 74 helicopter crew members 00:41:11.980 --> 00:41:15.079 that were involved in that mission that day. 00:41:16.480 --> 00:41:18.639 But during the course of the day we went through 00:41:18.639 --> 00:41:25.360 19 helicopters. They were damaged beyond flyable 00:41:25.360 --> 00:41:29.400 condition. And so consequently the crew stayed 00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:31.900 with the helicopter after they got them back 00:41:31.900 --> 00:41:36.860 to base. But the medal still belongs to 74. I'm 00:41:36.860 --> 00:41:40.000 just a caretaker. They award it to one person, 00:41:40.860 --> 00:41:44.900 but it belongs to all 74 of them. I think one 00:41:44.900 --> 00:41:48.539 of the things, Jim, that I read about you is 00:41:48.539 --> 00:41:50.579 you talked about the adrenaline rush that you 00:41:50.579 --> 00:41:54.519 had. And I think all three of us can relate to 00:41:54.519 --> 00:41:56.340 that adrenaline rush because you don't even notice 00:41:56.340 --> 00:42:00.380 what's going on around you until you... can calm 00:42:00.380 --> 00:42:04.119 down because you said that when the RPG went 00:42:04.119 --> 00:42:06.420 off near you and hit you with all that traveling, 00:42:06.539 --> 00:42:08.619 you didn't even notice it except, wow, that hurts, 00:42:08.719 --> 00:42:13.159 that stings, and then you just kept going. Yeah, 00:42:13.320 --> 00:42:16.780 I've got to credit my experience as an athlete. 00:42:18.019 --> 00:42:20.940 Four years of college football, four years of 00:42:20.940 --> 00:42:24.820 college wrestling, they taught me the mental 00:42:24.820 --> 00:42:27.989 discipline that I needed. and and the crowd noise 00:42:27.989 --> 00:42:30.610 and everything isn't the same as the noise that 00:42:30.610 --> 00:42:33.030 chuck and i hear in the middle of a a battle 00:42:33.030 --> 00:42:37.750 like that but you do become accustomed to focusing 00:42:37.750 --> 00:42:40.550 and paying attention to what you have to do and 00:42:40.550 --> 00:42:43.989 try to make that more of a and you do make that 00:42:43.989 --> 00:42:46.530 more of a priority over anything else because 00:42:46.530 --> 00:42:49.429 you got a job to do and you don't have time if 00:42:49.429 --> 00:42:54.250 if you flinch if you if you uh... He who hesitates 00:42:54.250 --> 00:42:59.130 isn't lost, he's dead sometimes. I credit those 00:42:59.130 --> 00:43:01.349 two sports and consequently when I came back 00:43:01.349 --> 00:43:04.210 I coached them both so that I could give back. 00:43:05.309 --> 00:43:09.530 I agree with you. I think that the sports analogy 00:43:09.530 --> 00:43:13.130 is great because you rely so much on your teammates 00:43:13.130 --> 00:43:17.090 in whatever sport that you are in that it kind 00:43:17.090 --> 00:43:19.750 of did take over. As you mentioned, you don't 00:43:19.750 --> 00:43:22.320 have time to You can't flinch, you can't think 00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:26.159 about what you're doing, you just do. And after 00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:27.679 the whole thing is over, then you sit down and 00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:29.239 you think about what you had just done, and you 00:43:29.239 --> 00:43:32.840 go, what was I thinking? I wasn't. I was just 00:43:32.840 --> 00:43:35.139 going on my reactions. I think that sounds like 00:43:35.139 --> 00:43:37.559 what, you know, Chuck, what you did, guys are 00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:41.199 down there in a landing, oh, go get them. Yes, 00:43:41.800 --> 00:43:44.500 there weren't any options. No, you can't leave 00:43:44.500 --> 00:43:46.840 them there. I wasn't sure I could do it, but 00:43:46.840 --> 00:43:50.619 I was the only possibility. You've got eight 00:43:50.619 --> 00:43:53.280 troops against the North Vietnamese battalion. 00:43:55.280 --> 00:43:58.880 I had simply been lead throughout the entire 00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:02.980 mission all day, sometimes with eight helicopters 00:44:02.980 --> 00:44:09.780 in total. The last mission was with six until 00:44:09.780 --> 00:44:13.760 I went in by myself on the absolute last flight, 00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:17.690 which was the sixth one into that LZ. for myself 00:44:17.690 --> 00:44:23.670 and my crew. But you've got three radios here 00:44:23.670 --> 00:44:31.210 monitoring, the FM, the UHF, and VHF, and paying 00:44:31.210 --> 00:44:34.449 attention to what's going on behind you with 00:44:34.449 --> 00:44:38.130 the helicopters behind. And there's too much 00:44:38.130 --> 00:44:40.969 to do to get very excited about what the situation 00:44:40.969 --> 00:44:44.769 is. Just move whatever direction is necessary. 00:44:45.539 --> 00:44:47.900 And Jim, I'm sure that you feel the same way. 00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:49.480 The guy was wounded, you just went and got him. 00:44:49.519 --> 00:44:52.579 You didn't think about the situation. Well, when 00:44:52.579 --> 00:44:55.219 you've got a multiple choice question, it only 00:44:55.219 --> 00:44:57.820 has one answer. It's not too hard to make the 00:44:57.820 --> 00:45:01.800 answer. You can do whatever it is you have to 00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:07.519 do. You know, the real thing is, and I think 00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:12.260 Chuck is a great person to pat on the back for 00:45:12.260 --> 00:45:15.219 this too, is that No, those are your men out 00:45:15.219 --> 00:45:19.159 there. Those are your brothers. And so it doesn't 00:45:19.159 --> 00:45:22.380 matter what happens to you. You just got to get 00:45:22.380 --> 00:45:25.139 them. There's a job to be done. You know what 00:45:25.139 --> 00:45:28.880 your job is and do it to the best of your ability 00:45:28.880 --> 00:45:32.400 and get it done. And if anything else happens, 00:45:32.559 --> 00:45:35.460 well, that's what happens. You mentioned, Jim, 00:45:35.480 --> 00:45:37.780 and I would like to just talk about this briefly 00:45:37.780 --> 00:45:40.900 is that When you were in the worst of the situation, 00:45:41.039 --> 00:45:43.579 you kind of had a little conversation with God, 00:45:43.619 --> 00:45:46.119 which probably many of us have had in those situations, 00:45:46.719 --> 00:45:49.440 about something that you wanted to do for your 00:45:49.440 --> 00:45:50.900 dad. Could you share that with our audience? 00:45:52.420 --> 00:45:55.480 Well, yeah, when the gentleman with a stomach 00:45:55.480 --> 00:45:57.320 wound and I had to take care of him in the open 00:45:57.320 --> 00:46:00.699 rice paddy and that's why I was hit with an AK 00:46:00.699 --> 00:46:03.699 -47 because I couldn't move him until I got the 00:46:03.699 --> 00:46:07.659 bandages on and got his insides... stabilized 00:46:07.659 --> 00:46:10.960 a little bit then I drug him into a trench line 00:46:10.960 --> 00:46:14.179 and I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to 00:46:14.179 --> 00:46:16.940 carry him through the crossfire I can't throw 00:46:16.940 --> 00:46:19.880 him over my shoulder or he's going to lose everything 00:46:19.880 --> 00:46:23.719 and so I'm kind of anticipating what I'm going 00:46:23.719 --> 00:46:25.980 to do and all of a sudden this thought for me 00:46:25.980 --> 00:46:29.780 that a kid growing up in the 50s and 60s we didn't 00:46:29.780 --> 00:46:31.780 tell our dad and our brothers that we loved them 00:46:31.780 --> 00:46:35.000 we knew that I knew my dad loved me and I'm pretty 00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:38.309 sure he you know i love him but uh... we hadn't 00:46:38.309 --> 00:46:41.550 said those three words i love you so i asked 00:46:41.550 --> 00:46:44.969 him ask my lord if he'd get me through that i'd 00:46:44.969 --> 00:46:47.610 be the best and the best coach and best teacher 00:46:47.610 --> 00:46:50.809 i could possibly be in this incredible piece 00:46:50.809 --> 00:46:53.730 came over me that time it was no longer in my 00:46:53.730 --> 00:46:56.469 ballpark whatever happened if i died in that 00:46:56.469 --> 00:46:59.250 battle done that's what it was meant to be in 00:46:59.250 --> 00:47:02.170 it i was lucky enough to make that make it through 00:47:02.170 --> 00:47:05.829 them i'd better keep my side of the bargain ran 00:47:05.829 --> 00:47:08.710 to my dad in chicago illinois when i got plane 00:47:08.710 --> 00:47:11.150 and hugged him and told him that i loved him 00:47:11.150 --> 00:47:13.849 and he did the same as if we've been doing that 00:47:13.849 --> 00:47:17.050 for my twenty -four -year life and that was our 00:47:17.050 --> 00:47:19.530 greeting and our departure from then on and of 00:47:19.530 --> 00:47:21.489 course i passed that same thing on to my children 00:47:21.489 --> 00:47:24.829 grandchildren and students and athletes so i 00:47:24.829 --> 00:47:28.090 think you also say to those people that you really 00:47:28.090 --> 00:47:32.710 mean it you do aren't guaranteed tomorrow unfortunately 00:47:32.710 --> 00:47:35.170 that's very true and i think uh... I think as 00:47:35.170 --> 00:47:37.389 we get a little bit older, we even realize that 00:47:37.389 --> 00:47:39.590 more and more how important it is to make sure 00:47:39.590 --> 00:47:42.869 that we do let people know how we feel. Yep, 00:47:43.610 --> 00:47:46.429 that's for sure. Your dad had a motto, too, called, 00:47:46.590 --> 00:47:48.449 do the right thing. Can you talk about that just 00:47:48.449 --> 00:47:51.090 briefly? Yeah, he always told me, you know, do 00:47:51.090 --> 00:47:53.349 the right thing even if somebody else isn't looking, 00:47:53.929 --> 00:47:56.070 and he always told me to never do anything halfway 00:47:56.070 --> 00:48:00.690 to, you know, to do it to the best of my ability. 00:48:00.989 --> 00:48:03.789 not somebody else's ability, the best of my ability, 00:48:03.909 --> 00:48:07.369 and then make sure I did it until the job was 00:48:07.369 --> 00:48:09.190 complete, and that's one of the reasons I didn't 00:48:09.190 --> 00:48:12.070 get on the first night job wasn't over, and I 00:48:12.070 --> 00:48:14.730 knew they were going to need me. Yeah, you were 00:48:14.730 --> 00:48:16.110 the one that was there to take care of them. 00:48:16.829 --> 00:48:18.809 Yeah, they wouldn't have had anybody. I'd rather 00:48:18.809 --> 00:48:21.750 be dead in a rice paddy than in a hospital and 00:48:21.750 --> 00:48:24.869 find out that one of my men lost his life because 00:48:24.869 --> 00:48:29.389 his medic wasn't there to do his job. Shortly 00:48:29.389 --> 00:48:33.199 after this, uh... skirmish as you can see or 00:48:33.199 --> 00:48:36.260 this battle you were transferred is that correct 00:48:36.260 --> 00:48:38.980 uh... i don't know i've transferred later on 00:48:38.980 --> 00:48:41.800 okay but show up but totally after that battle 00:48:41.800 --> 00:48:46.440 i was uh... on lv east when i got over ran uh... 00:48:46.440 --> 00:48:49.079 we had and and twenty minutes we had seventeen 00:48:49.079 --> 00:48:52.719 americans killed in thirty four wounded uh... 00:48:52.719 --> 00:48:56.119 they ran in the evening of uh... well actually 00:48:56.119 --> 00:49:00.889 early morning of uh... june the eleventh 1969 00:49:00.889 --> 00:49:05.989 so you know as Chuck probably experienced too 00:49:05.989 --> 00:49:08.389 you know it wasn't just the one battle there 00:49:08.389 --> 00:49:11.250 were several several battles that we're involved 00:49:11.250 --> 00:49:13.650 in that if you're in the wrong place at the right 00:49:13.650 --> 00:49:17.110 time you're going to be dead you know you know 00:49:17.110 --> 00:49:19.710 like we can all unfortunately we can all relate 00:49:19.710 --> 00:49:23.190 to that but you but you ended up being transferred 00:49:23.190 --> 00:49:27.159 out of the field at the at the end of my I was 00:49:27.159 --> 00:49:31.679 in July at the 91st Evacuation Hospital. Okay, 00:49:31.739 --> 00:49:34.159 and Chuck, you also were transferred shortly 00:49:34.159 --> 00:49:37.659 after your experience, weren't you? Yes, I was 00:49:37.659 --> 00:49:43.539 sent up to Brigade, the 1st Brigade of the 101st, 00:49:43.539 --> 00:49:47.900 to be their aviation officer, which didn't please 00:49:47.900 --> 00:49:51.000 me at all because that just put me further from 00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:56.769 where things were happening. And your guys. Yes, 00:49:57.070 --> 00:50:00.550 I had been in the interim period. I had the day 00:50:00.550 --> 00:50:04.610 after the company commander of the helicopter 00:50:04.610 --> 00:50:08.909 unit Transferred me into flight operations against 00:50:08.909 --> 00:50:13.630 my wishes but and when I asked him about why 00:50:13.630 --> 00:50:19.750 he simply said well Chuck I thought maybe If 00:50:19.750 --> 00:50:21.789 you're the operations officer you can figure 00:50:21.789 --> 00:50:24.789 out what a helicopter assault helicopter company 00:50:24.789 --> 00:50:28.619 does without any helicopters. Because you'd broken 00:50:28.619 --> 00:50:34.920 them all. Yes. Jim, if you ever get to visit 00:50:34.920 --> 00:50:36.760 Chuck here in Ypsilanti when you come on this 00:50:36.760 --> 00:50:39.380 side of the state, he's got a bill from the Army 00:50:39.380 --> 00:50:43.699 for what? How many helicopters? For the 19 helicopters. 00:50:43.719 --> 00:50:46.420 For 19 helicopters. He's got a bill from them. 00:50:46.619 --> 00:50:55.909 $89 ,300 ,000. Yeah. He should win a fitter win 00:50:55.909 --> 00:50:59.389 the lotto. That, of course, in fairness, was 00:50:59.389 --> 00:51:03.210 ingested by the Secretary of the Army following 00:51:03.210 --> 00:51:07.969 a luncheon in the Pentagon. But still, it was 00:51:07.969 --> 00:51:10.929 pretty funny the first time I saw it. Of course, 00:51:11.030 --> 00:51:13.530 I fell for it initially, but then there was another 00:51:13.530 --> 00:51:16.070 little letter attached to it afterwards. Well, 00:51:16.150 --> 00:51:19.530 I wrote back to the Secretary of the Army after 00:51:19.530 --> 00:51:23.519 I got back home and explained to him that I would 00:51:23.519 --> 00:51:30.559 suggest and appeal the invoice because he had 00:51:30.559 --> 00:51:36.739 charged me with 19 UH -1 hotel. Oh, H models. 00:51:36.780 --> 00:51:39.539 You didn't have H models. And we were flying 00:51:39.539 --> 00:51:42.940 D models, and I explained to them that I would 00:51:42.940 --> 00:51:44.679 have given them almost anything for the extra 00:51:44.679 --> 00:51:48.239 200 horsepower. It would have made a significant 00:51:48.239 --> 00:51:51.300 difference. You would have. You would have. I 00:51:51.300 --> 00:51:53.079 want to ask both of you. We're coming up. We 00:51:53.079 --> 00:51:56.960 got about six minutes left, I think. How has 00:51:56.960 --> 00:52:00.000 the Medal of Honor changed your life? Jim, I'll 00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:03.809 go with you first. Oh, wow. it's been a whirlwind 00:52:03.809 --> 00:52:06.150 you know we've we've been i've been to attend 00:52:06.150 --> 00:52:09.610 states and some of more than once and in the 00:52:09.610 --> 00:52:13.809 last six months and you know it's an opportunity 00:52:13.809 --> 00:52:17.690 really to um... uh... let the world know who 00:52:17.690 --> 00:52:20.809 those guys were that fought in that war and i've 00:52:20.809 --> 00:52:24.070 uh... compared it to the to my father uh... we 00:52:24.070 --> 00:52:27.230 are actually uh... the vietnam veterans a lot 00:52:27.230 --> 00:52:30.190 of march sons of the world war two veterans and 00:52:30.190 --> 00:52:33.280 my dad went came home from his war and didn't 00:52:33.280 --> 00:52:35.659 talk about it. I came home, didn't talk about 00:52:35.659 --> 00:52:38.679 it. My dad came home and started a career, so 00:52:38.679 --> 00:52:42.500 did I. My dad built a family, so did I, and we 00:52:42.500 --> 00:52:45.159 built a house, and so did I. But see, my father 00:52:45.159 --> 00:52:48.199 didn't have to talk about his war because everybody 00:52:48.199 --> 00:52:51.079 was talking about it for them. Yet the Vietnam 00:52:51.079 --> 00:52:53.599 veteran, the son of the World War II veteran, 00:52:54.179 --> 00:52:56.699 didn't want to talk about it because he experienced 00:52:56.699 --> 00:53:00.679 and it was a controversial war. You know, I was 00:53:00.599 --> 00:53:03.179 state this loud and clear, you can hate the war, 00:53:03.300 --> 00:53:05.400 or you can have your opinion on the war of you. 00:53:05.719 --> 00:53:07.480 Better love that warrior, because he's the same 00:53:07.480 --> 00:53:11.820 guy his dad was. Sorry for the freedom as anyone 00:53:11.820 --> 00:53:15.760 else. So if I can pass anything on to those that 00:53:15.760 --> 00:53:19.280 don't understand who those brothers of mine were, 00:53:19.719 --> 00:53:22.460 they were very brave men. I fought with a lot 00:53:22.460 --> 00:53:26.539 of heroes out there. And so I was asked the question, 00:53:26.599 --> 00:53:30.599 would you do it again? You know, nobody wakes 00:53:30.599 --> 00:53:32.860 up and says, well, there's a war out there for 00:53:32.860 --> 00:53:36.539 me to go to today. Had I not gone to Vietnam, 00:53:36.599 --> 00:53:39.679 I would have never met some of the most caring, 00:53:40.139 --> 00:53:43.320 brave, loving people that I've ever met in my 00:53:43.320 --> 00:53:46.300 entire life. True. Chuck, how about your experience? 00:53:47.099 --> 00:53:52.539 Well, it was quite peaceful. The President presented 00:53:52.539 --> 00:53:56.630 the Medal of Honor. And then although I had served 00:53:56.630 --> 00:54:00.570 on active duty for some 20 years during that 00:54:00.570 --> 00:54:03.869 period of time, I was only in the Pentagon one 00:54:03.869 --> 00:54:09.349 time briefly checking my personnel records. But 00:54:09.349 --> 00:54:12.590 since they awarded the Medal of Honor in the 00:54:12.590 --> 00:54:18.050 G1 General McConville office for a social visit. 00:54:19.630 --> 00:54:24.010 And I was also in the office of General Milley. 00:54:24.030 --> 00:54:28.309 who was Chief of Staff of the Army of Four Star 00:54:28.309 --> 00:54:32.150 and invited into his office and must have spent 00:54:32.150 --> 00:54:35.989 at least 45 minutes and he asked initially when 00:54:35.989 --> 00:54:39.030 I went there he said you've been here before 00:54:39.030 --> 00:54:43.269 and I said no no and he said you haven't I said 00:54:43.269 --> 00:54:46.349 no I tried to behave myself when I was on active 00:54:46.349 --> 00:54:50.670 duty but anyway and General Conville was there 00:54:50.670 --> 00:54:55.980 the G1 and he has since Been awarded his fourth 00:54:55.980 --> 00:55:01.539 star and he's the deputy to General Milley so 00:55:01.539 --> 00:55:05.500 anyway And of course I never would have been 00:55:05.500 --> 00:55:10.019 into the White House in that manner and met the 00:55:10.019 --> 00:55:14.679 president with And that sort of thing so Life 00:55:14.679 --> 00:55:17.159 is life has changed for both of you. Yeah, I 00:55:17.159 --> 00:55:19.159 might say that's one of the most unbelievable 00:55:19.159 --> 00:55:24.349 experiences the office of those individuals and 00:55:24.349 --> 00:55:27.750 be standing there in the President's office, 00:55:28.210 --> 00:55:32.329 it's like surreal. I can only imagine. We have 00:55:32.329 --> 00:55:34.190 a quick call from someone that wanted to talk 00:55:34.190 --> 00:55:35.510 to you, so I'm going to throw John on. You've 00:55:35.510 --> 00:55:38.989 got about 30 seconds. Well, gentlemen, I just 00:55:38.989 --> 00:55:42.590 called to personally as a Vietnam veteran just 00:55:42.590 --> 00:55:47.190 to salute you both. We're good friends, and the 00:55:47.190 --> 00:55:49.559 most incredible story that I can think of is 00:55:49.559 --> 00:55:53.000 you never lost a man and all your flying with 00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:55.340 a hundred and first airborne and I'm still flabbergasted 00:55:55.340 --> 00:55:57.820 every time I think about that. He must have been 00:55:57.820 --> 00:56:00.980 a tremendous commander. James, we live in Michigan 00:56:00.980 --> 00:56:05.260 and maybe someday our paths will cross. I'd love 00:56:05.260 --> 00:56:07.739 to give you a hug, man. I'd be very happy to 00:56:07.739 --> 00:56:10.760 do that. Thank you, John. We'll get Jim over 00:56:10.760 --> 00:56:12.619 to this side of the state. Maybe we'll all just 00:56:12.619 --> 00:56:15.380 jump in a van and go visit him. He's got some 00:56:15.380 --> 00:56:18.920 spare time, I'm sure. You can welcome us all 00:56:18.920 --> 00:56:21.460 in there. Gentlemen, I want to thank you both 00:56:21.460 --> 00:56:24.099 very, very much for being on Veterans Radio today. 00:56:24.280 --> 00:56:26.539 It's an honor and privilege for me to talk with 00:56:26.539 --> 00:56:29.420 both of you and hope to talk to you again. Well, 00:56:29.420 --> 00:56:45.099 thank you. Thank you so much. So that's all the 00:56:45.099 --> 00:56:47.300 time we have today. I hope you enjoyed today's 00:56:47.300 --> 00:56:49.780 program. I was really excited to talk to these 00:56:49.780 --> 00:56:52.440 two gentlemen again. We're out of time. So until 00:56:52.440 --> 00:56:54.380 next week, this is Dale Thromberg. For all of 00:56:54.380 --> 00:56:57.300 us here at Veterans Radio, you are dismissed.