All across America and around the world, this
is Veterans Radio. And good afternoon and welcome
to Veterans Radio. My name is Dale Throneberry.
This is our final program of 2025. Wow, where
did that time go? Well, we've got a special one
for you today. Next year, the Congressional Medal
of Honor Society is holding its convention in
Detroit, Michigan. I believe it's September 30th
to October 3rd. And so we're going to be promoting
that, of course, throughout next year. And I
wanted to kind of introduce you to you today.
So we've got an interview coming up with Jim
Falzone and the organizers of the Medal of Honor
Society's convention in Detroit. And then we've
got the privilege, I think, of interviewing two
Medal of Honor recipients that we talked to back
in 2018. That was Lieutenant Colonel Charles
Kettles and Speck. for I believe he was James
McLuhan and so we recorded that program back
in 2018 and they're going to be joining us very
shortly so I'm going to get right into this right
right now if I don't get a chance to talk to
you at the end of the program we wish you a very
very happy new year and a great future 2026.
Gonna be very interesting to see what happens.
So here's Jim Falzone with the members of the
organizing committee for the Medal of Honor Society's
convention in Detroit. We want to welcome to
Veterans Radio today, two gentlemen who are deeply
involved in Detroit's efforts, successful efforts.
to bring the Medal of Honor Society Convention
to Detroit in October of 2026. One of the things
you know if you listen to Veterans Radio is we
kind of get the information before other people
do and we get to pass it on to you so that you're
in the know. So we're really happy to talk about
what's coming a year from now when the living
Medal of Honor recipients gather in Detroit for
their annual convention. First up, We have Russell
Schomburger, who is the chair of the committee.
Russ, welcome to Veterans Radio. Well, thank
you, Jim, very much. Appreciate it and looking
forward to sharing more about the conference
to the audience. We want to welcome to Veterans
Radio Adrian Kozikov, who is a committee member
that's working on this huge effort to bring the
Congressional Medal of Honor Recipients Convention
to Detroit in 2026. Adrian, welcome to Veterans
Radio. Thank you for having me, Jim. Very excited
to share about the convention. Well, Russ, let's
start with you. How did you get yourself involved
in this big task of pulling off the national
convention? Well, I don't know how much time
you have, but to make it simple. I am also on
the board of the Detroit Public Safety Foundation.
And I've been supporting first responders for
some time. And I just I met some folks that are
involved with the recipient community and said,
you know, we've never had this in the city of
Detroit, it would be cool to have. So I started
working with Detroit Public Safety Foundation
in the society. to win the award or to bring
it to Detroit, which we were successful on doing.
And now I find myself having the Tiger by the
Tail, which is a labor of love. I'm very fortunate
in my position to be able to give back to the
community. I've been doing so for about seven
years for Detroit Public Safety Foundation. And
it's just all about Detroit, the veteran community
and giving back. Why don't you expand a little
bit more on the Detroit Public Safety Organization?
Because folks can go there and donate for this
particular Congressional Medal of Honor convention.
And really, I don't think most folks would go,
I don't know what the Detroit Public Safety Organization
is. Well, the Detroit Public Safety Foundation
is a 501C3. It is the charity of record for this
conference. And what we do is we take care of
fallen first responders, their families and things
of that nature. We do things for youth groups
within the city and we provide things to the
first responders. It's just simple little things,
creature comforts for the fire department, you
know, their housing, things of that nature. But
our main focus is giving back to the community
and taking care of youth programs and first responders
who are injured or fallen in line of duty. Well,
clearly the Detroit Public Safety Foundation
is a very worthy cause and is sort of the base
here around which this Medal of Honor Convention
is building. And as you say, it's the financial
arm of it as well. You can make 501C3 charitable
deductions, contributions to the Detroit Public
Safety Foundation for the purposes of supporting
the Medal of Honor Convention, if I understand
it right. Exactly. That's perfect. It's perfectly
stated. Well, Adrian is... fairly clear that
Russ just stumbled into this, you know, the guy
with a good idea always finds himself being voluntold.
Oh good, you're going to lead it. Jim, I say
no good deed goes unpunished. Absolutely, absolutely.
Adrian, how did you get involved? You know, I,
similar, in a similar fashion, I was voluntold
to get involved in this and thought one of the
employees and directors at the Medal of Honor
Society said, hey, Adrian, you'd be a good fit
for this, and talked with Russ. And Russ said,
yes, we could use the help. Let's figure out
a way to get involved. And from there, I started
getting more involved and seeing how I could
help. Well, your committee has a number of influential
people on it. We have a mutual friend in Voli
Garcia. with the NDIA, with the Michigan Military
and Veterans Hall of Honor, former state senator
and I know he's really excited about this as
well. Are there other committee members you'd
like to mention? There's none at this time and
we have some feelers out. What we're doing is
we have this year's conference coming on next
week. So that's in Chattanooga. And what we wanted
to do is go sit down, go through the whole thing.
We'll be there all week. We're going to set A
to Z and talk to everybody and say, let's learn
from lessons learned. What went well? What didn't?
How should we restructure? straw person, we have
roles identified, we have task and duties identified,
we have some names penciled in. But before we
pull the trigger in that what we wanted to do
is just go make sure that we've done all of our
due diligence before we go asking people for,
you know, time, energy and effort. The Congressional
Medal of Honor Society is a sort of standalone
organization itself. And It's a way in which
people can connect with living Medal of Honor
recipients and learn more about those who have
deceased. But do they have conventions every
year? Yes, they do have conventions every year.
And they pick a city. You go and make a pitch,
if you will. And so Valdé and some others went
down last year. in San Antonio to do the pitch.
And there's really three purposes for this. And
I'm, I'm non military. So I'm just a Detroit
fellow that's trying to do a good job for the
city of Detroit and veterans causes, right? I'm
often flabbergasted by the fact that very few
people know anything about the society. know
very little about recipients. When I booked the
venue, and it's going to be at the Motor City
Casino Hotel next year, some of the people there
were saying, well, tell me more about what the
society is, even visit Detroit. And so the main
purpose of this is to go and communicate all
about the medal, all about service. all about,
you know, what what this stands for. The second
thing is, is really to educate the national audience
about Detroit. And then finally, what we come
along with is to raise funds for the society
itself, and for veterans and youth programs within
the city. So those I would say in general are
the three legs of the stool. Adrian, did I forget
anything? I often get carried away and get excited
in my exuberance. Yeah, I think that covers it
very well. One item I would like to add more
to was especially the youth programs. It's to
help inspire our youth to live by not only youth,
but the people of Detroit, the people of Michigan,
to live by the values that the medal instills
in people. Yeah, you know, it's really interesting.
I think it's one of the things that you're going
to be able to do is remind the nation of the
contributions that have been made in Southeast
Michigan, and really Michigan as a whole, to
national defense. The arsenal of democracy, right?
World War II was largely successful because of
our induction drill. production and what companies
like Ford were able to do in turning out necessary
defense equipment, planes, tanks, the famous
Jeep, right? So it kind of goes both ways. We're
going to learn what their lives were, what their
sacrifices were, but hopefully we're also being
able to pass on that message about what Detroit
and the area has done for the nation. Yep, it's
all about education and expanding, you know,
the reach, the knowledge base of who knows about
this stuff, right? I mean, there's really just
a small group that's, I would hate to say fading,
but it is in some ways, right? And so we're the
champions, you know, if you don't remember history,
it will repeat itself in the future. Right. And
so learning those things, sharing those things.
And at the end, it's really about, um, you know,
youth programs and veterans programs as well.
So it's just a very worthy cause, you know, you
can mention our website. It is the medal of honor
Detroit .com. So mark your calendars. September
30th to October 3rd, 2026, Medal of Honor Society's
convention in Detroit, Michigan. Alright, so
we're going to go straight to our interviews
with Chuck Kettles and Jim McLuhan, Medal of
Honor recipients from our program in March of
2018. I get to be the host of an amazing program
today. I'm really excited to talk to our two
guests. We've got two Medal of Honor recipients
that we're going to be talking to today. They
are both Vietnam veterans. One is a helicopter
pilot. Another one was a medic. And their stories
are hair -raising and very exciting. And they
are probably two of the nicest and most humble
men I've had the privilege of meeting and talking
with on this program. How many radio shows do
you know of that have two Medal of Honor recipients?
on the program at the same time. In the studio
with me right now is Lieutenant Colonel Charles
Kettles. And Colonel Kettles received his Medal
of Honor for action in 1967 in Vietnam as a helicopter
pilot. So Chuck, welcome back to Veterans Radio.
Well, thank you. Thank you very much. And joining
us on the line right now is one of the newest
Medal of Honor recipients, at least from Michigan
for sure. and his name is James McLuhan, and
Jim, welcome to Veterans Radio. Well, thank you
so much. Thank you. And the guys can say hello,
because you're a member of a very small club.
Well, we're very small, too, so we fit in real
well. That's true. You know, I hadn't thought
about that until I was doing some research on
this, Jim, and found that you were about, what,
5 '4", maybe? Yeah, I'm 5 '5". Chuck and I would
never be chosen by Michigan State to be their
center. Yeah, but you guys cause all kinds of
chaos by just running around. Oh yeah, we would.
We'd take them right out at the knees. Well,
I want to thank you very much for being on the
program, Jim. It's an honor and a privilege for
me to talk to the both of you. And I'm going
to ask Chuck first to talk a little bit about
his medal. And just kind of review for our audience,
you received yours for being a helicopter pilot.
And what did you do? I'll try to keep that brief.
It was a mission that lasted most of one day
and involved inserting a total of 160 troops
into an LZ. During the course of the day, they
had walked into an ambush and it took its toll.
At the end of the day, that is about 1900 or
seven o 'clock in the evening, the battalion
commander requested emergency extraction of the
remaining 40 troops plus four of my crew members
from a helicopter that had taken a mortar round
on the... mass to the helicopter and was destroyed
in place. They, of course, immediately ended
up being infantry troops. So there was a total
of 44 troops. The unit from which I came from
was reduced down to where we only had one remaining
UH -1D helicopter flyable to make the extraction,
so we borrowed five from the 161st, which was
about 30 miles up the road, and rendezvoused
in the area of the LZ landing zone, and went
in in a trail formation. And shortly after we
landed, the troops of course loaded and the aft
helicopter crew members advised that everyone
was loaded, so I gave a thumbs up to the co -pilot.
to take us out. And I did a 180 in the air coming
back toward the base and was advised that there
were still eight troops down in that landing
zone in the riverbed who had been putting up
a last -ditch defense, protecting those who were
boarding but didn't get on a helicopter themselves.
So they were down there against battalion size,
North Vietnamese Army battalion, and bad scene.
Anyway, I told the commander that I would, of
course, go right down and pick them up. I had
picked up only one ground troop. They went to
the nearest helicopter and got on board. I was
in the left seat, and the troops were to my left.
So I took control and headed into the valley
to pick up the eight. And immediately on touchdown,
or a few seconds later, mortar round went off
the nose of the helicopter, which took out part
of the windshields left and right, the chin bubble
where I sat, and of course the troops. loaded
up pretty fast. As one stated in Washington prior
to the ceremony for the MOH, when interviewed
by the press, he said, well, after I landed,
he started running toward the helicopter. And
he said the tracers were going past his head.
But he said, and then he really began running.
And he was staying ahead of the tracers. So he
must have had a hell of a pace. Well, as I learned
later, the helicopter, when the copilot picked
it up, it fished ill rather violently and it
threw one of the grunts out the left door. He
grabbed the skid on the way out, and his compatriots
pulled him back in. But then the mortar round
went off beneath the tailbone. And a rather dramatic
departure. But the helicopter was over gross
weight by probably six, seven hundred pounds,
and it flew like that, too. about like a two
-and -a -half ton truck with a rotor system on
it. And in order to sustain flight, you couldn't
because it was too heavy. And so we did a combination
of a running landing wherein you simply lower
the collective pitch because the... engine was
not strong enough to maintain rotor RPM normal
and there's no point in continuing to pull because
it's just going to settle further. And after
a jackrabbit departure down the riverbed allowing
the helicopter to come back down on the skid,
the nose of the skid to regain the rotor RPM.
I could fly it again, treating that RPM for forward
speed to get about 40 knots. After about five
or six of those, jack rabbit. So you're bouncing
down this little river bed? Yes. Anyway, I wasn't
sure whether I was going to get up and go or
13 of us were going to be down there with Charlie.
But fortunately, it did de -burn, like a good
fellow, and went back to base. Alright, that's
enough of that one. I have goosebumps already,
and I'm just sitting here. For those of you who
have listened to the program for a long time,
I was a helicopter pilot myself, and I'm just
sitting here reliving the bouncing to try and
get off the ground sometimes when you know you're
overloaded, but you've got to get these guys
out of these places. Wow. And no chin bubble.
So the air conditioning was working very well.
Yes. That was the good side of it. That was the
good side. Where did this happen, Chuck? Well,
it was north, north -northwest out of Duck Fo,
which is up in the Central Highland area, which
is south of Da Nang, Duck Fo, as that is. And
it's about probably 22 clicks. The reason I ask
that question, and Jim, I'm going to bring you
in on the conversation right now, if you don't
mind, is that where did your action take place?
Well, first of all, let me say without guys like
Chuck, my job is nil and void. I can go out and
bring them in and patch them up, but unless we
get them out of there into a hospital and taken
care of, that's where the this old coach knows
where the real teamwork comes in so we were very
fortunate to have those guys come down and get
our guys even in the dangerous situations that
they were operating in sometimes you know they
were coming into the area where bullets are flying
all over the place as you well heard there and
a lot of brave men came down to help us out so
my place and off of chulai northwest of chulai
in the tamki area with a hill called new yon
hill uh... in may thirteenth uh... we were combat
assaulted in there speaking of helicopters they
couldn't land because it was a hot LZ so we jumped
out at about ten feet and all of us with our
packs and everything uh... two helicopters shot
down uh... my first uh... A guy coming in from
a squad that had helped the crew from the second
helicopter that got shot down come into our perimeter.
We couldn't get another helicopter in to pull
the crew out so we brought them in with our squad
and a guy was lingering behind. He had gotten
injured jumping out of the helicopter and he
had injured his knee. I thought he was wounded.
And everybody else was in about 100 yards before
him. So I jumped up and sprinted to him and slid
in next to him, asking where he was hit. And
he said, I'm not hit. I hurt my knee getting
out of the helicopter. And I looked at it by
the size of a volleyball. So I figured I was
going to throw him up on my shoulders. And I
said, hang on to your M16. You're going up on
my shoulders. And I weaved my way in. And luckily,
we didn't get hit by either the NBA that were
assaulting us nor my own men who were. you know,
shooting at the NBA. And so I was lucky to get
him in out. Everything was OK until that evening.
Let me back up a little bit. Our company commander
told the battalion commander that this was a
flawed mission. He said, well, why do you say
that? And he said, well, you haven't sent any
forward observations in there, and I only have
89 minutes. So we don't know how many people
we're going to be up against. And he told them,
The commander told Ernie Carrier, our company,
that he either takes us in or he gets court -martialed.
Well, I'm glad he took us in because he knows
it was his second tour and he knows how to bring
in the types of things we need to protect us.
And I wouldn't be sitting there talking to you
if he hadn't taken us in. They would have court
-martialed him anyway and they would have sent
somebody else in in his place, so he did the
right thing. So that evening we go out with my
platoon out towards the hill. We were ordered
to do so by battalion and we hit an ambush out
there and I immediately heard two guys yelling
for a medic jumped up on a berm and that's when
I got hit the first time by rocket propel grenade
pulling them into a trench line. I was in the
trench line with them looked up and about 10
meters away were two NBA looking me square in
the eye and I had given up my weapon to go and
get these two guys so I had nothing to defend
myself and it's just them and me and they had
no weapons because they had retreated from the
ambush and we're in a couple of bushes on top
of that berm. So I said follow me man and I started
running and I was running through the trench
line it was slowing me down so I jumped up out
of the trench line and ran the best 40 -yard
dash I've ever ran in my life, swerving. with
the bullets kind of bouncing off the ground.
I got about 40 yards away from them and I can
now hear my machine gunners firing back at them.
So I heard somebody call the medic and I went
back into the kill zone and pulled another man
out. We did this about four or five times that
night and finally they backed off a little bit.
We got a helicopter in and as I got everybody
on the lieutenant looked at me and said get on
doc and that's when I remembered I'd gotten hit
out there and I had mother's blood all over me
I'd gotten hit from head to toe with the fragmentations
and so I said I'm not going I'd gotten close
enough to the hill out there that I looked up
and realized that there were a lot of them out
there they looked like lava coming down off of
that hill and so I told him i wasn't going because
he was going to need me and uh... uh... they
but harassed us all night long and uh... you
mentioned that i don't mean to interrupt but
i listened to another interview that you did
you mentioned that during the night they uh...
they had women screaming and dogs barking yeah
they had dogs barking women screaming so i don't
know if the nba were assault you know uh... abusing
them or that was part of their own ploy to to
make a go we i knew there was a lot out there
a lot of people didn't know how many were out
there because though only one guy escaped the
front squad that got ambushed and he ran quickly
so he didn't see what i saw either but i'll tell
you what i knew there was a lot i don't know
how many i knew there were a lot of them out
there and uh... yeah they they harass us all
night long and they were just with next day they
didn't bother us all day long but then the next
night battalion ordered us to move out as a company
towards the hill and i'm thinking are they nuts
did they not see that we had two helicopter shot
down coming in we had a uh... platoon annihilated
the night before going in that direction and
their excuse was if we move they might not know
where we were And I'm thinking, well, yeah, they
know where we're at. Matter of fact, they're
probably closer to us than they were before.
And of course, they were closer to us. So first
platoon got hit a lot earlier than my second
platoon got hit the night before. And we only
had one other medic left, and his name was Daniel
Shade. Is the name Becca Bell with you or not?
It does. It does. He was on my list of Medal
of Honor recipients. Yes, he is. As far as I
know, this was unprecedented that two medics
in the same battle from the same company were
not only in a huge battle, but both received
the Congressional Medal of Honor. He, about his
fourth time out, was killed. So I actually retrieved
his body and took over for the rest of the company
for that night. I was hit twice more in my retrieving
about four or five more guys. out there we were
trying to get some resupply and because we were
getting really low and trying to get a resupply
in and I saw these streaks coming over the top
of me as I laid prone out there and I thought
wow that can only be a rocket propelled grenade
well later on I by the way we didn't get anything
in and I'm laying there thinking you know what
if they kick that ammunition out towards this
blinking light it's going to land right on top
of me but they couldn't get close enough and
so they retreated. We didn't get any more ammunition.
I shut off the blinking light, got back to the
front and I had to go back and forth all night
long because I had two critically wounded soldiers,
one with a stomach wound, one with a really bad
shoulder wound and the shoulder one I was afraid
was going to go into shock. So I used all three
of my morphine threats that night to keep him
from my water, I kept moistness on the bandages
of the stomach wound so that the insides would
not dry up. But we made it through the night.
I killed a guy that was actually, he was shooting
a rocket -propelled grenade from behind a tree
where I'd left my pack back there. The baseball
coach happened to throw an air burst his way
and pull the pin out. a grenade counted to three
and then threw it and it burst in the air right
in front of him so he went down and was out.
So we fought all night long, passed it down the
line, we were getting low to keep one bullet
for yourself in case we didn't make it through,
but we did. Thanks to the Marines coming in with
their Cobras and the Air Force coming in with
their Spooky and of course the Navy shooting
from about four, five, six miles away on China
Sea. Over on to the enemy too. So the big team
helped us out and we thought like Like a cat
current cornered what by five or six dogs, right
and We made it I was wounded twice the second
evening This is the brief version. We're going
to take a break here in a minute or so, and then
we're going to get into the details a little
bit more because both of you have amazing stories.
I want to remind our audience that we're talking
with two Medal of Honor recipients here. We've
got Lieutenant Colonel Chuck Kettles. He was
a helicopter pilot in Vietnam and received an
award for his actions in 1967. And we've got
Jim McLaughlin, who is a... a medic in Vietnam
and received his medal for his actions in uh...
nineteen sixty -eight uh... sixty -nine sixty
-nine sixty -nine i'm sorry that was when i was
there is this one of those questions where hey
did you know so -and -so uh... but anyway we
want our audience to give us a call here if you've
got a question for these two gentlemen uh...
this is going to be it's a great opportunity
for your number here is seven three four eight
two two sixteen hundred And I think that you'd
be more than happy to answer your questions.
We're going to be taking a break for the news.
We're going to be playing a Medal of Honor segment
that we do every week. Actually, this one's going
to be for Bud Day. Maybe you've met him too at
some point. He was a pilot. And so we'll be right
back after these messages. You're listening to
Veterans Radio. Now we're back on Veterans Radio
and I didn't have the opportunity to record segments
for our two guests today, but if you're just
tuning in we are talking with two Medal of Honor
recipients from Ypsilanti, Michigan. We are talking
with Lieutenant Colonel retired Charles Kettles.
He received his award in 1967 or for actions
in 1967 as a helicopter pilot went back in and
brought out a bunch of people that got left in
an LZ. That's a landing zone. It's a place where
you're all by yourself. You want to get out of
there. The other gentleman on the program is
Jim McLuhan, and Jim received his Medal of Honor
for actions in 1969. He's from South Haven, Michigan.
He just recently received his medal from President
Trump. Both of you gentlemen, I'm going to go
to, we're drafted, which I think is kind of interesting.
I don't think people think about that that much.
Jim, let me ask you about, you had an interesting
story because you had just graduated from college.
Yes, I had I not only graduated but I'd signed
a contract to teach and coach at South Haven
High School in May before I did graduate and
then Was ordered to take physical in July and
inducted in August. Yep. Yeah, we know how those
things go You get that letter and it's you know,
how much time have I got? Yeah, it was it was
my uncle I don't know if you know him or not
was uncle Sam. Oh that guy need to go on a vacation
before I taught school That was nice of him.
Chuck, you also got that same letter back in
1950 -something for the Korean War, didn't you?
That's correct. I had been attending what was
then Michigan State Normal College. Been there
for two years. Not a particularly sterling report,
but anyway, I had dropped out in the fall of
51 to... I've been working for American Airlines
throwing baggage at night and also working day
for Kaiser Fraser Export Corporation. So I was
working the two jobs and decided I would continue
to do that both for full time and do that for
the fall and then go back to school in January.
Well, Uncle Sam had other ideas and sent me one
of the infamous letters. The greeting letter.
Yeah, but frankly it was kind of a relief because
they'd let me go to bed probably by 10 o 'clock
at night. They didn't get me up until probably
6 o 'clock. So it was quite a change. So you're
only working one job. Yes, and they took care
of feeding me and doing my clothes and everything
else. I thought Nothing wrong with this one.
I didn't quite agree with that particular analysis
of the whole thing, although I did like the idea
of the free food. So Jim, you had graduated from
college, and how did you end up becoming a medic?
Well, I've got a couple of theories on that.
When I first got to Fort Knox, They put us in
a house for a couple of days while we did all
our paperwork and got this wonderful haircut
and all of our shots and everything. There was
a guy that had just gotten back from Vietnam
and he was a medic in Vietnam. He and I were
older. He was 23 and I was 22, fresh out of college.
So we hit it off and we talked to each other
about our personal lives. I told him about some
of the courses that I'd taken to become a coach
at Olivet, Kinesiology, Physiology, Anatomy,
First Aid. So I think either they noticed it
up at headquarters or he went up there and said,
you know, this guy, you're not going to prepare
him for what he's going to see him getting on,
but he's got a little step up and I think you
ought to send him to medical school. I was a
draftee, so I don't get my choice, you know.
Usually a draftees don't get those kinds of jobs,
and I considered my job a positive job in a negative
situation, being able to save lives. So I was
very grateful that whatever the reason, whether
they discovered or this young man went up and
told them what he knew, I was extremely blessed
to become a combat medic. Well, you mentioned
in your story that you went out on one of these
missions, your first mission out in the field,
was this event? My first what? For the action
where you received the Medal of Honor for, was
that on your very first mission in country? No,
no. But my very first day with my unit, we hit
an ambush, we had two killed, three wounded,
and I... killed my first enemy soldier so i i
was initiated real quickly that would have been
in march the uh... night i got in country on
the seventh and by march ninth march nine they
needed a medic in the charlie company and that's
where they sent me the medics and the officers
were assigned to a headquarters unit so if you
look at a roster of charlie company you won't
see the the uh... officers nor the medics and
that roster there on the roster of the headquarters
or assigned to but I don't know why they ever
did that, because I was a Charlie Company soldier.
OK. So on May 13th, when you went out into this
field, I want you to kind of, for our audience's
sake, if you could describe all the bad guys
that you saw. You have a great metaphor for that
in one of the things that I read. When you ended
up, you were dropped off in this LZ, and everybody's
getting shot at and all these other things. And
you looked up across. you know about a hundred
yards out or more and you start seeing these
people these figures coming down a mountainside
or hillside. That was when I was out the first
night when my platoon was sent out and we were
out there about well I don't even know how far
we went but I was about three -quarters of a
mile from New Yon Hill when I looked up on the
hill and saw this lava flowing off of that hill.
I knew there was a lot of them. I didn't know
how many, but I knew there was a lot more than
we had on that hill. They were coming our way.
And how big was the unit that you were involved
with, our size unit, how big was that? Our unit?
Yeah. 89. So you had 89, and the number that
I read was approximately 2 ,000 bad guys were
coming down on you. Yeah, there's been several...
count, but we know there was at least 700 BC
and then there was anywhere from 1500 to 2000
NBA also on that hill. So they were dug in. It
really is amazing that anybody was able to survive
that. Yeah, I shouldn't be talking with you on
the phone. There's no doubt about that. Well,
I think that Colonel Kettle could probably relate
to that too. I mean, just sitting Sitting in
an LZ with people shooting at you is not the
safest feeling I've ever had in my life. How
about you? No, I can think of a better environment.
These guys are so humble. Oh, well, it's just
another day at the office. Well, I'll tell you
what. You know, we both know that that medal
isn't ours. I've heard Chuck say the same thing.
I just kind of am the caretaker for the 89 men.
went in whether they made it or didn't make it
because um uh there you know the leading scorer
in a basketball game doesn't do that by himself
somebody has to feed him the ball and that quarterback
that came in for alabama that freshman quarterback
and threw three touchdown passes to be number
one in the nation he had to have a good line
blocking for him and a guy that scores a winning
run of baseball game somebody has to hit him
home so we're chuck and i are both aware of that
It's not our medal. No, in my case it belongs
to what I regard as some 74 helicopter crew members
that were involved in that mission that day.
But during the course of the day we went through
19 helicopters. They were damaged beyond flyable
condition. And so consequently the crew stayed
with the helicopter after they got them back
to base. But the medal still belongs to 74. I'm
just a caretaker. They award it to one person,
but it belongs to all 74 of them. I think one
of the things, Jim, that I read about you is
you talked about the adrenaline rush that you
had. And I think all three of us can relate to
that adrenaline rush because you don't even notice
what's going on around you until you... can calm
down because you said that when the RPG went
off near you and hit you with all that traveling,
you didn't even notice it except, wow, that hurts,
that stings, and then you just kept going. Yeah,
I've got to credit my experience as an athlete.
Four years of college football, four years of
college wrestling, they taught me the mental
discipline that I needed. and and the crowd noise
and everything isn't the same as the noise that
chuck and i hear in the middle of a a battle
like that but you do become accustomed to focusing
and paying attention to what you have to do and
try to make that more of a and you do make that
more of a priority over anything else because
you got a job to do and you don't have time if
if you flinch if you if you uh... He who hesitates
isn't lost, he's dead sometimes. I credit those
two sports and consequently when I came back
I coached them both so that I could give back.
I agree with you. I think that the sports analogy
is great because you rely so much on your teammates
in whatever sport that you are in that it kind
of did take over. As you mentioned, you don't
have time to You can't flinch, you can't think
about what you're doing, you just do. And after
the whole thing is over, then you sit down and
you think about what you had just done, and you
go, what was I thinking? I wasn't. I was just
going on my reactions. I think that sounds like
what, you know, Chuck, what you did, guys are
down there in a landing, oh, go get them. Yes,
there weren't any options. No, you can't leave
them there. I wasn't sure I could do it, but
I was the only possibility. You've got eight
troops against the North Vietnamese battalion.
I had simply been lead throughout the entire
mission all day, sometimes with eight helicopters
in total. The last mission was with six until
I went in by myself on the absolute last flight,
which was the sixth one into that LZ. for myself
and my crew. But you've got three radios here
monitoring, the FM, the UHF, and VHF, and paying
attention to what's going on behind you with
the helicopters behind. And there's too much
to do to get very excited about what the situation
is. Just move whatever direction is necessary.
And Jim, I'm sure that you feel the same way.
The guy was wounded, you just went and got him.
You didn't think about the situation. Well, when
you've got a multiple choice question, it only
has one answer. It's not too hard to make the
answer. You can do whatever it is you have to
do. You know, the real thing is, and I think
Chuck is a great person to pat on the back for
this too, is that No, those are your men out
there. Those are your brothers. And so it doesn't
matter what happens to you. You just got to get
them. There's a job to be done. You know what
your job is and do it to the best of your ability
and get it done. And if anything else happens,
well, that's what happens. You mentioned, Jim,
and I would like to just talk about this briefly
is that When you were in the worst of the situation,
you kind of had a little conversation with God,
which probably many of us have had in those situations,
about something that you wanted to do for your
dad. Could you share that with our audience?
Well, yeah, when the gentleman with a stomach
wound and I had to take care of him in the open
rice paddy and that's why I was hit with an AK
-47 because I couldn't move him until I got the
bandages on and got his insides... stabilized
a little bit then I drug him into a trench line
and I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to
carry him through the crossfire I can't throw
him over my shoulder or he's going to lose everything
and so I'm kind of anticipating what I'm going
to do and all of a sudden this thought for me
that a kid growing up in the 50s and 60s we didn't
tell our dad and our brothers that we loved them
we knew that I knew my dad loved me and I'm pretty
sure he you know i love him but uh... we hadn't
said those three words i love you so i asked
him ask my lord if he'd get me through that i'd
be the best and the best coach and best teacher
i could possibly be in this incredible piece
came over me that time it was no longer in my
ballpark whatever happened if i died in that
battle done that's what it was meant to be in
it i was lucky enough to make that make it through
them i'd better keep my side of the bargain ran
to my dad in chicago illinois when i got plane
and hugged him and told him that i loved him
and he did the same as if we've been doing that
for my twenty -four -year life and that was our
greeting and our departure from then on and of
course i passed that same thing on to my children
grandchildren and students and athletes so i
think you also say to those people that you really
mean it you do aren't guaranteed tomorrow unfortunately
that's very true and i think uh... I think as
we get a little bit older, we even realize that
more and more how important it is to make sure
that we do let people know how we feel. Yep,
that's for sure. Your dad had a motto, too, called,
do the right thing. Can you talk about that just
briefly? Yeah, he always told me, you know, do
the right thing even if somebody else isn't looking,
and he always told me to never do anything halfway
to, you know, to do it to the best of my ability.
not somebody else's ability, the best of my ability,
and then make sure I did it until the job was
complete, and that's one of the reasons I didn't
get on the first night job wasn't over, and I
knew they were going to need me. Yeah, you were
the one that was there to take care of them.
Yeah, they wouldn't have had anybody. I'd rather
be dead in a rice paddy than in a hospital and
find out that one of my men lost his life because
his medic wasn't there to do his job. Shortly
after this, uh... skirmish as you can see or
this battle you were transferred is that correct
uh... i don't know i've transferred later on
okay but show up but totally after that battle
i was uh... on lv east when i got over ran uh...
we had and and twenty minutes we had seventeen
americans killed in thirty four wounded uh...
they ran in the evening of uh... well actually
early morning of uh... june the eleventh 1969
so you know as Chuck probably experienced too
you know it wasn't just the one battle there
were several several battles that we're involved
in that if you're in the wrong place at the right
time you're going to be dead you know you know
like we can all unfortunately we can all relate
to that but you but you ended up being transferred
out of the field at the at the end of my I was
in July at the 91st Evacuation Hospital. Okay,
and Chuck, you also were transferred shortly
after your experience, weren't you? Yes, I was
sent up to Brigade, the 1st Brigade of the 101st,
to be their aviation officer, which didn't please
me at all because that just put me further from
where things were happening. And your guys. Yes,
I had been in the interim period. I had the day
after the company commander of the helicopter
unit Transferred me into flight operations against
my wishes but and when I asked him about why
he simply said well Chuck I thought maybe If
you're the operations officer you can figure
out what a helicopter assault helicopter company
does without any helicopters. Because you'd broken
them all. Yes. Jim, if you ever get to visit
Chuck here in Ypsilanti when you come on this
side of the state, he's got a bill from the Army
for what? How many helicopters? For the 19 helicopters.
For 19 helicopters. He's got a bill from them.
$89 ,300 ,000. Yeah. He should win a fitter win
the lotto. That, of course, in fairness, was
ingested by the Secretary of the Army following
a luncheon in the Pentagon. But still, it was
pretty funny the first time I saw it. Of course,
I fell for it initially, but then there was another
little letter attached to it afterwards. Well,
I wrote back to the Secretary of the Army after
I got back home and explained to him that I would
suggest and appeal the invoice because he had
charged me with 19 UH -1 hotel. Oh, H models.
You didn't have H models. And we were flying
D models, and I explained to them that I would
have given them almost anything for the extra
200 horsepower. It would have made a significant
difference. You would have. You would have. I
want to ask both of you. We're coming up. We
got about six minutes left, I think. How has
the Medal of Honor changed your life? Jim, I'll
go with you first. Oh, wow. it's been a whirlwind
you know we've we've been i've been to attend
states and some of more than once and in the
last six months and you know it's an opportunity
really to um... uh... let the world know who
those guys were that fought in that war and i've
uh... compared it to the to my father uh... we
are actually uh... the vietnam veterans a lot
of march sons of the world war two veterans and
my dad went came home from his war and didn't
talk about it. I came home, didn't talk about
it. My dad came home and started a career, so
did I. My dad built a family, so did I, and we
built a house, and so did I. But see, my father
didn't have to talk about his war because everybody
was talking about it for them. Yet the Vietnam
veteran, the son of the World War II veteran,
didn't want to talk about it because he experienced
and it was a controversial war. You know, I was
state this loud and clear, you can hate the war,
or you can have your opinion on the war of you.
Better love that warrior, because he's the same
guy his dad was. Sorry for the freedom as anyone
else. So if I can pass anything on to those that
don't understand who those brothers of mine were,
they were very brave men. I fought with a lot
of heroes out there. And so I was asked the question,
would you do it again? You know, nobody wakes
up and says, well, there's a war out there for
me to go to today. Had I not gone to Vietnam,
I would have never met some of the most caring,
brave, loving people that I've ever met in my
entire life. True. Chuck, how about your experience?
Well, it was quite peaceful. The President presented
the Medal of Honor. And then although I had served
on active duty for some 20 years during that
period of time, I was only in the Pentagon one
time briefly checking my personnel records. But
since they awarded the Medal of Honor in the
G1 General McConville office for a social visit.
And I was also in the office of General Milley.
who was Chief of Staff of the Army of Four Star
and invited into his office and must have spent
at least 45 minutes and he asked initially when
I went there he said you've been here before
and I said no no and he said you haven't I said
no I tried to behave myself when I was on active
duty but anyway and General Conville was there
the G1 and he has since Been awarded his fourth
star and he's the deputy to General Milley so
anyway And of course I never would have been
into the White House in that manner and met the
president with And that sort of thing so Life
is life has changed for both of you. Yeah, I
might say that's one of the most unbelievable
experiences the office of those individuals and
be standing there in the President's office,
it's like surreal. I can only imagine. We have
a quick call from someone that wanted to talk
to you, so I'm going to throw John on. You've
got about 30 seconds. Well, gentlemen, I just
called to personally as a Vietnam veteran just
to salute you both. We're good friends, and the
most incredible story that I can think of is
you never lost a man and all your flying with
a hundred and first airborne and I'm still flabbergasted
every time I think about that. He must have been
a tremendous commander. James, we live in Michigan
and maybe someday our paths will cross. I'd love
to give you a hug, man. I'd be very happy to
do that. Thank you, John. We'll get Jim over
to this side of the state. Maybe we'll all just
jump in a van and go visit him. He's got some
spare time, I'm sure. You can welcome us all
in there. Gentlemen, I want to thank you both
very, very much for being on Veterans Radio today.
It's an honor and privilege for me to talk with
both of you and hope to talk to you again. Well,
thank you. Thank you so much. So that's all the
time we have today. I hope you enjoyed today's
program. I was really excited to talk to these
two gentlemen again. We're out of time. So until
next week, this is Dale Thromberg. For all of
us here at Veterans Radio, you are dismissed.