WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.060 The following program is dedicated to all of 00:00:03.060 --> 00:00:06.320 those who served down on the ice of Antarctica 00:00:06.320 --> 00:00:25.539 and the CBs who built the bases. Live from the 00:00:25.539 --> 00:00:28.140 Veterans Radio Studios and the Ave Maria Network 00:00:28.140 --> 00:00:32.630 in Ann Arbor, Michigan. This is Veterans Radio. 00:00:33.429 --> 00:00:36.950 And now, here's your host for today's program, 00:00:37.390 --> 00:00:44.149 former CB, Gary Lilley. And good morning out 00:00:44.149 --> 00:00:46.850 there around the world. Welcome to Veterans Radio. 00:00:47.049 --> 00:00:49.149 We've got a great program lined up today. It's 00:00:49.149 --> 00:00:51.090 going to be funny. It's going to be interesting. 00:00:51.609 --> 00:00:54.490 I've already learned so many things I didn't 00:00:54.490 --> 00:00:57.670 know about. Operation Deep Freeze down on the 00:00:57.670 --> 00:01:02.320 ice shelf of Antarctica. Ooh, close skies. And 00:01:02.320 --> 00:01:05.599 Antarctica, is that a continent of all ice? Does 00:01:05.599 --> 00:01:08.620 it actually have ground under it? It's got volcanoes 00:01:08.620 --> 00:01:12.299 under it. Yes, not under it, sticking up. Active 00:01:12.299 --> 00:01:15.659 volcanoes. Okay. Yeah, there was dirt down there. 00:01:15.980 --> 00:01:18.659 I want to know all about Antarctica. I know nothing. 00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:22.379 Bob Gould. Right here is Bob Gould. Yes, here 00:01:22.379 --> 00:01:26.159 we are. 101st Airborne. 101 and to all my brothers 00:01:26.159 --> 00:01:28.780 and sisters out there, my military brothers and 00:01:28.780 --> 00:01:32.379 sisters. Welcome to Veterans Radio. And over 00:01:32.379 --> 00:01:34.640 there in the control booth, we've got Matt running 00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:37.120 things, keeping them running smoothly. Matt Doerr, 00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:40.180 good morning. Good morning. And sitting right 00:01:40.180 --> 00:01:43.859 next to you is Kai. Good morning, Kai. Morning, 00:01:43.939 --> 00:01:46.159 everybody. It's nice to be here. It's good to 00:01:46.159 --> 00:01:48.659 have you here, Kai. Fun listening to you this 00:01:48.659 --> 00:01:50.799 morning, practicing your announcements on the 00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:53.299 air. Oh, he's doing great. He is. He is. I like 00:01:53.299 --> 00:01:54.719 the heck out of him. Hit him on the shoulder, 00:01:54.819 --> 00:01:56.739 push him out of the way. And you know why I'm 00:01:56.739 --> 00:01:58.700 not afraid of pushing you out of the way, Kai? 00:01:58.959 --> 00:02:02.700 You wouldn't hit an old man, would you? He's 00:02:02.700 --> 00:02:06.459 not answering. No. We have a lot of fun with 00:02:06.459 --> 00:02:08.800 those guys. They're really good guys, Matt and 00:02:08.800 --> 00:02:13.280 Kive. What a blessing. Bob, we've got this program 00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:15.259 lined up. We're going to have Bill George and 00:02:15.259 --> 00:02:17.719 Dale Cockrell. There were two CBs wintered over 00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:20.979 on the ice down in I think it was 67. I'll find 00:02:20.979 --> 00:02:25.060 out for sure. And right now though, you've gone 00:02:25.060 --> 00:02:28.090 through something that I just... We want to get 00:02:28.090 --> 00:02:30.789 the message out, and it has to do with your health. 00:02:31.169 --> 00:02:35.030 Oy, oy, okay. I'll make this very quick. I have 00:02:35.030 --> 00:02:39.069 a debilitating serious illness that has to do 00:02:39.069 --> 00:02:42.069 with a lot of pain, etc. And I was in the VA 00:02:42.069 --> 00:02:44.469 system, and the VA system is wonderful, wonderful 00:02:44.469 --> 00:02:48.229 healthcare, but it's protocol, yes, by the numbers. 00:02:48.650 --> 00:02:52.210 And for the last six months, they weren't misdiagnosing. 00:02:52.590 --> 00:02:56.509 They were missing the treatment modality because 00:02:56.509 --> 00:02:59.090 I still had tremendous pain, etc. The point I'm 00:02:59.090 --> 00:03:02.310 making is that I went out and did the research 00:03:02.310 --> 00:03:05.810 myself. And it was one sentence that I found 00:03:05.810 --> 00:03:08.650 in the research looking on the internet. You 00:03:08.650 --> 00:03:10.710 bought a book. I bought a book. I bought a book 00:03:10.710 --> 00:03:14.250 from the Trigeminal Neuralgia Association, studied 00:03:14.250 --> 00:03:17.569 it, and I found that sentence. And I am now on 00:03:17.569 --> 00:03:19.729 the road to recovery because I did something 00:03:19.729 --> 00:03:23.759 about it. through my own dentist and it's made 00:03:23.759 --> 00:03:25.300 a significant difference. The point I want to 00:03:25.300 --> 00:03:27.219 make is that I went out and did the research. 00:03:27.800 --> 00:03:30.240 So, folks, when you're dealing with the VA, don't 00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:32.280 be afraid to ask questions. When you're dealing 00:03:32.280 --> 00:03:35.099 with any medical situation, because we have a 00:03:35.099 --> 00:03:37.520 member of our Vietnam Veterans of America chapter 00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:41.759 310, Don, about four years ago was given 18 months 00:03:41.759 --> 00:03:45.580 to live and he was sick looking. And he didn't 00:03:45.580 --> 00:03:48.319 accept that. He said, I'm going to find out if 00:03:48.319 --> 00:03:51.199 there's anything I can do. He researched it, 00:03:51.419 --> 00:03:53.319 found different things he could do to change 00:03:53.319 --> 00:03:56.379 his lifestyle, got rid of all the fillings in 00:03:56.379 --> 00:04:00.659 his teeth, the mercury fillings, made other changes 00:04:00.659 --> 00:04:03.719 in his life. It's been four years. He's healthier 00:04:03.719 --> 00:04:07.060 looking than I've ever seen him. Don't just listen 00:04:07.060 --> 00:04:09.719 to the doctors. I'm not saying anything bad about 00:04:09.719 --> 00:04:13.860 the doctors. Do your own research. and get involved. 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:17.720 And ask questions. Absolutely. I actually had 00:04:17.720 --> 00:04:20.860 the guy sit down. Oh yeah. He was a big time 00:04:20.860 --> 00:04:23.079 board certified neurologist and he's standing 00:04:23.079 --> 00:04:25.040 up looking down. I mean, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. 00:04:25.480 --> 00:04:28.240 Have a seat. Eyeball to eyeball. Yeah, this man's 00:04:28.240 --> 00:04:30.779 not military obviously. Eyeball to eyeball. Yeah, 00:04:30.860 --> 00:04:33.100 good for you. And speaking of eyeballs, I see 00:04:33.100 --> 00:04:35.459 life in your eyes that hasn't been there for 00:04:35.459 --> 00:04:38.680 a long time. Okay, we got something really good 00:04:38.680 --> 00:04:42.040 coming up. And from Veterans Radio to all of 00:04:42.040 --> 00:04:44.939 you troops coming home, welcome home. And we're 00:04:44.939 --> 00:04:47.240 back on Veterans Radio and for those of you who 00:04:47.240 --> 00:04:49.959 are looking for the webcast due to technical 00:04:49.959 --> 00:04:53.500 difficulties, we don't have it today. Had all 00:04:53.500 --> 00:04:56.600 sorts of great photographs and the Navy artists 00:04:56.600 --> 00:04:59.680 that documented the building of Little America. 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:02.180 What a shame we can't show them to you folks, 00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:04.579 but boy did I have fun looking them up. Little 00:05:04.579 --> 00:05:09.069 America, Operation Deep Freeze. And our guest 00:05:09.069 --> 00:05:11.810 today will be talking about wintering over on 00:05:11.810 --> 00:05:14.970 Operation Deep Freeze. We have Bill George on 00:05:14.970 --> 00:05:19.129 the line and Dale Cockrell, two CBs. And I just 00:05:19.129 --> 00:05:21.970 want to say to you first, Bill, good morning 00:05:21.970 --> 00:05:25.050 and welcome to Veterans Radio. Good morning, 00:05:25.189 --> 00:05:27.949 Gary. Good morning. And Dale Cockrell, good morning 00:05:27.949 --> 00:05:31.569 to you too. Glad to be here. Well, I'm glad to 00:05:31.569 --> 00:05:34.350 have you here. I've known Bill for a number of 00:05:34.350 --> 00:05:37.209 years and heard his stories about Being over 00:05:37.209 --> 00:05:39.189 on the ice, I haven't met you, Dale, but I'm 00:05:39.189 --> 00:05:41.670 interested in hearing your stories. A lot of 00:05:41.670 --> 00:05:46.689 them are dramatic and a lot of them are the hard 00:05:46.689 --> 00:05:51.149 work that CBs do. I know that from my own experience, 00:05:51.189 --> 00:05:53.430 but also a lot of them are very, very funny. 00:05:54.790 --> 00:05:58.050 First off, Bill, tell us what is Operation Deep 00:05:58.050 --> 00:06:01.470 Freeze? Operation Deep Freeze was an agreement. 00:06:01.610 --> 00:06:04.269 I believe I started with an international agreement 00:06:04.269 --> 00:06:10.879 in 1957. where the certain amount of communities, 00:06:11.319 --> 00:06:15.740 national communities, agreed to have saved the 00:06:15.740 --> 00:06:18.459 continent of Antarctica for scientific research. 00:06:19.319 --> 00:06:21.920 And the reason that we were there for the United 00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:26.439 States was basically the CBs were there to support 00:06:26.439 --> 00:06:29.819 the civilian scientists in their scientific research. 00:06:30.339 --> 00:06:33.279 And so we took care of the issues of providing 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:38.259 them with transportation, roads, anything they 00:06:38.259 --> 00:06:41.459 would need in the way of food, shelter, water, 00:06:41.579 --> 00:06:44.120 that type of thing. Big operation. The main base 00:06:44.120 --> 00:06:47.779 that Dale and I were located at was McMurdo. 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:51.319 And McMurdo was the main supply base for the 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:54.759 continent. And so in the summer months, which 00:06:54.759 --> 00:06:58.360 ran from October till about the 1st of March, 00:06:58.939 --> 00:07:01.939 our population there was probably somewhere between 00:07:01.939 --> 00:07:07.170 1 ,200 and 1 ,300 people. Go ahead. But after 00:07:07.170 --> 00:07:10.509 the last plane left in March, then our population 00:07:10.509 --> 00:07:14.389 dropped to about 180. So that sort of gives you 00:07:14.389 --> 00:07:18.050 an idea of where we were at and the size of our 00:07:18.050 --> 00:07:21.209 operation. Dale, what was the difference in the 00:07:21.209 --> 00:07:24.490 populations, the summer population of 1200 to 00:07:24.490 --> 00:07:27.069 the winter population of 180? For the summer 00:07:27.069 --> 00:07:30.110 population, you never really got to know anyone 00:07:30.110 --> 00:07:32.850 other than the people you worked directly with. 00:07:33.790 --> 00:07:37.180 In the winter, You got to know everybody and 00:07:37.180 --> 00:07:40.079 through that experience, some long lasting friendships 00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:42.620 have been developed or were developed at that 00:07:42.620 --> 00:07:46.500 time. As a matter of fact, you guys are on a 00:07:46.500 --> 00:07:49.699 reunion right now of Operation Deep Freeze people 00:07:49.699 --> 00:07:52.500 or was it just for your year? It's just for the 00:07:52.500 --> 00:07:57.459 Winter Over 6970 group. We wouldn't turn anybody 00:07:57.459 --> 00:08:00.980 away if they wanted to come and join us, but 00:08:00.980 --> 00:08:04.220 it's primarily for the Winter Over group that 00:08:04.220 --> 00:08:06.350 we were with. As a matter of fact, I understand 00:08:06.350 --> 00:08:11.529 you guys ran into somebody on the street who 00:08:11.529 --> 00:08:14.930 was just a real fan of Operation Deep Freeze, 00:08:15.050 --> 00:08:17.129 and when he met you guys, you invited him over 00:08:17.129 --> 00:08:23.269 to sit and socialize. Did he show up? As a matter 00:08:23.269 --> 00:08:27.550 of fact, last night I was not here, but he did. 00:08:27.589 --> 00:08:31.079 I heard from some of my other friends that were 00:08:31.079 --> 00:08:34.100 here he got himself into our hotel and he come 00:08:34.100 --> 00:08:36.759 up and I guess he introduced him to a couple 00:08:36.759 --> 00:08:40.440 of people and he was just infatuated with Antarctic 00:08:40.440 --> 00:08:44.659 so you know eager guy wanted to talk to people 00:08:44.659 --> 00:08:46.799 who had been there and he had not been there 00:08:46.799 --> 00:08:49.559 he was just a guy that liked to read about it 00:08:49.559 --> 00:08:52.600 it was it was funny he he would be a primary 00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:55.759 guy who would volunteer to go there he was just 00:08:55.759 --> 00:08:57.740 interested in the place that's good thing to 00:08:57.740 --> 00:09:02.419 know all about it We've all met those kinds of 00:09:02.419 --> 00:09:05.500 people and they're really fun to be around. The 00:09:05.500 --> 00:09:07.779 difference in the thousand population though, 00:09:07.779 --> 00:09:09.820 were those all scientists, the people that went 00:09:09.820 --> 00:09:13.000 home? No, not necessarily. Some of them were 00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:16.299 what we call summer support. They were attached 00:09:16.299 --> 00:09:19.080 to the Antarctic sport activity summer support 00:09:19.080 --> 00:09:21.500 group and they would come down for the summer 00:09:21.500 --> 00:09:24.360 season only and they would make multiple trips 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:27.000 south. Whereas the people who wintered over, 00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:31.059 we were in Detachment Alpha, which was designated 00:09:31.059 --> 00:09:34.279 for winter over, and we were there for the year. 00:09:34.779 --> 00:09:38.259 After the year was up, we would either get orders 00:09:38.259 --> 00:09:41.519 for another duty station or get out, whichever 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:43.740 the case might have been. What's the purpose? 00:09:44.279 --> 00:09:48.659 Now, this is military ground or military base, 00:09:49.240 --> 00:09:52.799 but it's not for military use, is that right? 00:09:53.080 --> 00:09:57.610 That's correct. Okay, Dale, right. What do they 00:09:57.610 --> 00:09:59.769 study down there? What are they trying to learn? 00:09:59.909 --> 00:10:04.610 Do you have any idea, Dale? The year that we 00:10:04.610 --> 00:10:07.669 were there, the big news was they had a place 00:10:07.669 --> 00:10:11.409 they were researching called Dry Valleys. I think 00:10:11.409 --> 00:10:15.070 Dry Valleys was maybe about 50 miles away from 00:10:15.070 --> 00:10:18.250 McMurdo. They ran the helicopters out there quite 00:10:18.250 --> 00:10:22.789 a bit. scientists would go out there. The unique 00:10:22.789 --> 00:10:25.129 thing about it was it was a section of Antarctica 00:10:25.129 --> 00:10:28.610 that had very little snow or ice. The climate 00:10:28.610 --> 00:10:31.730 in Antarctica is often described as a desert 00:10:31.730 --> 00:10:35.509 climate because there's so little actual precipitation 00:10:35.509 --> 00:10:38.509 that falls out of the sky. In fact, they've made 00:10:38.509 --> 00:10:42.830 comments that they get less precipitation a year 00:10:42.830 --> 00:10:45.149 than some of the major deserts in the world. 00:10:45.929 --> 00:10:48.690 The snow that's there, when the wind picks up, 00:10:48.750 --> 00:10:52.049 sometimes in excess of 100 miles an hour, then 00:10:52.049 --> 00:10:54.149 it picks up the snow off the plane and blows 00:10:54.149 --> 00:10:57.470 it. So there's Dry Valley was a place where they 00:10:57.470 --> 00:11:00.309 could actually get right down to soil and rock. 00:11:01.190 --> 00:11:03.470 And I think that the year that we were there, 00:11:03.470 --> 00:11:06.889 we were there in 69 and 70. And the year we were 00:11:06.889 --> 00:11:12.789 there, they found fossils of tropical plants. 00:11:13.090 --> 00:11:17.529 And so they knew that it had It had determined 00:11:17.529 --> 00:11:21.289 that at one time the area of Antarctica probably 00:11:21.289 --> 00:11:24.129 was tropical and either because of continental 00:11:24.129 --> 00:11:28.110 drift or if the earth had shifted poles, something 00:11:28.110 --> 00:11:30.870 had happened that changed, obviously, changed 00:11:30.870 --> 00:11:35.110 the climate. Bill, when you got orders for Antarctica, 00:11:35.409 --> 00:11:38.529 was this something you volunteered for or the 00:11:38.529 --> 00:11:40.210 military said, hey, guess where you're going? 00:11:43.879 --> 00:11:46.779 You both have different stories there. You know, 00:11:46.960 --> 00:11:49.659 I'll tell you with me, my company commander, 00:11:49.740 --> 00:11:52.379 we were getting out of boot camp and we were, 00:11:52.379 --> 00:11:55.600 what you would call, we were volunteers. But 00:11:55.600 --> 00:11:59.200 when there were 32 of us out at Gulfport and 00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:02.419 they told us that they said, you know, we're 00:12:02.419 --> 00:12:04.379 going to have a little guessing game here. We're 00:12:04.379 --> 00:12:06.580 going to let you guess where you're going. And 00:12:06.580 --> 00:12:09.220 they said, all we're going to hint to you is 00:12:09.220 --> 00:12:12.059 you're going south. And this was during the Vietnam 00:12:12.059 --> 00:12:14.870 thing. We're all perking up because we thought 00:12:14.870 --> 00:12:17.409 we were going somewhere down close to the equator, 00:12:17.409 --> 00:12:20.909 you know? And so each time we would guess a base 00:12:20.909 --> 00:12:23.669 that was south, he'd say, further south. And 00:12:23.669 --> 00:12:26.710 finally somebody asked, was it Australia? And 00:12:26.710 --> 00:12:30.769 he said, no. And at the time, with me being a 00:12:30.769 --> 00:12:33.070 young kid, I didn't think there was anything 00:12:33.070 --> 00:12:36.230 south of Australia. I thought Australia was about 00:12:36.230 --> 00:12:39.809 the bottom of the world. I found out that wasn't 00:12:39.809 --> 00:12:45.769 the case. That's a long way south of Australia, 00:12:45.909 --> 00:12:49.129 isn't it? Yeah. It gets colder and colder. Now, 00:12:49.529 --> 00:12:52.289 Bill, how did they ship you there? By ship or 00:12:52.289 --> 00:12:56.690 by airplane? You know, we went by airplane. The 00:12:56.690 --> 00:13:00.289 ASA is called Antarctic Support Activity. They 00:13:00.289 --> 00:13:05.309 flew, I believe it was six C -130 Hercules and 00:13:05.309 --> 00:13:08.230 they had two troop transform planes that were 00:13:08.230 --> 00:13:11.740 the old TWA constellations, I think the number 00:13:11.740 --> 00:13:18.000 was the C121. And so from Davisville, Rhode Island 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:20.559 to the ice, I flew one of the constellations 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:26.460 and it was 52 hours flying time. Sometimes we'd 00:13:26.460 --> 00:13:28.639 look out the window and we'd swear the geese 00:13:28.639 --> 00:13:35.940 were flying faster than us. Was that the super 00:13:35.940 --> 00:13:39.200 constellation, the double -decker plane? No, 00:13:39.320 --> 00:13:41.899 there wasn't a double becker, but they referred 00:13:41.899 --> 00:13:44.940 to it as the constellation and had the triple 00:13:44.940 --> 00:13:47.259 tails on the end of it. Everybody knew what they 00:13:47.259 --> 00:13:52.419 were. Oh, yes, yes, yes. They were a very reliable 00:13:52.419 --> 00:13:57.980 plane. Right. But as technology moved on, they 00:13:57.980 --> 00:14:01.269 got slower and slower. I've interviewed guys 00:14:01.269 --> 00:14:05.950 that were the listening posts that they would 00:14:05.950 --> 00:14:08.929 fly off of China and fly off of the Soviet Union 00:14:08.929 --> 00:14:11.250 and such and listen in on their transmissions 00:14:11.250 --> 00:14:15.970 in those super constellations. I was stunned 00:14:15.970 --> 00:14:18.769 when I heard that they were 32 hour flights and 00:14:18.769 --> 00:14:21.470 all that, but you're saying it was a 52 hour 00:14:21.470 --> 00:14:24.389 flight? Well, you know, actually what it was 00:14:24.389 --> 00:14:29.600 was 52 hours flying time. We would hop. We hopped 00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:32.200 across the United States, then we hopped to Hawaii, 00:14:32.820 --> 00:14:37.179 then from Hawaii we went to New Zealand which 00:14:37.179 --> 00:14:40.960 was about a 24 hour run but they would stop in 00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:45.750 the American Samoas to refuel. Total flying time 00:14:45.750 --> 00:14:48.350 was 52 hours. Oh heck, I got you beat. That took 00:14:48.350 --> 00:14:51.350 us three days to get to Vietnam in this old four 00:14:51.350 --> 00:14:55.110 -engine C -118 that leaks more oil than a well 00:14:55.110 --> 00:14:58.049 could produce in a day. You learn how big the 00:14:58.049 --> 00:14:59.929 ocean is when you're in a plane like that, don't 00:14:59.929 --> 00:15:03.190 you? That's the truth. There's nothing to do. 00:15:03.429 --> 00:15:06.289 Everybody had books. They were reading books 00:15:06.289 --> 00:15:09.649 because you just sit there and the engines were 00:15:09.649 --> 00:15:11.750 just thrown on and there was nothing to see. 00:15:13.129 --> 00:15:15.889 Who was I talking to just now, Bill or Dale? 00:15:16.429 --> 00:15:21.350 That was Bill. Okay. You guys sound a lot alike. 00:15:22.049 --> 00:15:25.710 Bill, when you looked down at the ocean, did 00:15:25.710 --> 00:15:29.750 you start seeing ice down there at some point? 00:15:29.750 --> 00:15:33.669 Well, when I was flying from New Zealand into 00:15:33.669 --> 00:15:37.450 McMurda, I was in the Hercules and there was 00:15:37.450 --> 00:15:40.190 no window, so I presumed that if you were looking 00:15:40.190 --> 00:15:42.460 out a window, you would... eventually saw ice. 00:15:43.539 --> 00:15:46.539 I think I slept most of the way, I'm not sure. 00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:51.879 They've got airstrips down there on Antarctica. 00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:54.960 Did you guys either of you work on the airstrip? 00:15:55.100 --> 00:15:59.000 That was one of my primary jobs. The sea ice 00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:01.980 was to go out and measure the density of it and 00:16:01.980 --> 00:16:03.960 the thickness of it so we could determine if 00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:08.080 it was still safe. What's the biggest plane that 00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:10.919 they can bring in on that airstrip on the ice? 00:16:11.070 --> 00:16:15.129 C5s have been in there. How big are they? Big. 00:16:15.169 --> 00:16:19.070 It's the largest airplane in our inventory, ours 00:16:19.070 --> 00:16:23.029 being the US. I am not sure the tonnage of it, 00:16:23.070 --> 00:16:26.990 but they are mammoth. Literally, you can stand 00:16:26.990 --> 00:16:29.690 up in the engines, right? Oh yeah. They're big 00:16:29.690 --> 00:16:34.490 enough that they can take an M1 Abrams tank and 00:16:34.490 --> 00:16:38.850 still have room left over. And this airstrip 00:16:38.850 --> 00:16:43.590 is pure ice. Right. Pure ice. Well, yes and no. 00:16:43.830 --> 00:16:47.470 If you get out on the Ross Ice Shelf, there's 00:16:47.470 --> 00:16:51.409 covered with snow. But there's one on the sea 00:16:51.409 --> 00:16:55.330 ice. Gary, let me elaborate a little bit on that. 00:16:55.450 --> 00:16:57.809 I worked out at the airstrip during the summer 00:16:57.809 --> 00:17:01.009 when it was operational. And we had a blue ice 00:17:01.009 --> 00:17:04.250 runway, which was on annual ice. And we had a 00:17:04.250 --> 00:17:08.150 skiway, which was on glacial ice. And the Hurks 00:17:08.150 --> 00:17:12.019 used the skiway. and the wheeled airplanes used 00:17:12.019 --> 00:17:15.380 the annual ice. And we had to stop using the 00:17:15.380 --> 00:17:18.299 blue ice runway, I think around the 1st of December 00:17:18.299 --> 00:17:19.519 was it there? Yeah, around the 1st of December. 00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:21.900 Right around, because the ice would get down 00:17:21.900 --> 00:17:25.160 too thin. And Dale might know this, there was 00:17:25.160 --> 00:17:27.759 a certain thickness specification when it got 00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:31.099 under that thickness, they stopped landing the 00:17:31.099 --> 00:17:34.390 planes on the blue ice runway. And then we would 00:17:34.390 --> 00:17:36.829 only use the ski ways, which was for the herp. 00:17:37.369 --> 00:17:42.710 So if you can picture this, McMurdo sat on a 00:17:42.710 --> 00:17:46.349 volcanic island, which was volcanic rock. But 00:17:46.349 --> 00:17:52.269 where it sat, there was a glacier met with the 00:17:52.269 --> 00:17:55.509 sea. So you had three entities there. You had 00:17:55.509 --> 00:17:58.849 annual ice that went out most years. You had 00:17:58.849 --> 00:18:02.740 the glacier ice that slowly moved toward the 00:18:02.740 --> 00:18:05.779 annual ice. And then you had land which was where 00:18:05.779 --> 00:18:08.380 McMurdo was built. And this whole thing, the 00:18:08.380 --> 00:18:11.799 airstrip, which was Williams Field, was approximately 00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:16.160 five miles out on the glacier away from McMurdo, 00:18:16.259 --> 00:18:18.319 if you can picture that. And the roads that we 00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:21.839 had sort of formed a large circle. You'd come 00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:25.240 out of McMurdo, you'd come out to Williams Field, 00:18:25.319 --> 00:18:27.880 and there'd be the skiway. And then you'd come 00:18:27.880 --> 00:18:31.279 to the Blue Ice, the annual ice runway, and the 00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:34.079 road would take you back to McMurdo. So if you 00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:38.579 can picture that type of situation. So the planes 00:18:38.579 --> 00:18:41.759 that came in, they weren't strictly on skis. 00:18:41.980 --> 00:18:44.920 They were wheeled aircraft, were they? Yes, they 00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:48.779 were wheeled. C -130s were ski -equipped. The 00:18:48.779 --> 00:18:51.720 Super Connies, they were wheel -equipped. They 00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:54.319 had 141s that came in, brought supplies in. They 00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:57.539 were wheeled. And all of them landed on ice. 00:18:57.630 --> 00:19:00.269 All of them landed on ice. It had to be smoother 00:19:00.269 --> 00:19:04.789 than a hockey rink. It could get rough. So they 00:19:04.789 --> 00:19:07.589 sent good pilots out there. Towards the end of 00:19:07.589 --> 00:19:11.809 the summer season, the sea ice started developing 00:19:11.809 --> 00:19:16.769 ridges in it. The density of it started deteriorating 00:19:16.769 --> 00:19:21.750 and it got to where it was not supposed to land. 00:19:24.319 --> 00:19:28.039 When it started losing its thickness, they stopped 00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:31.119 using it. How thick would that be, Dale? The 00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:33.759 thickest I ever measured was about 13 feet, and 00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:37.200 toward the end of the use, it was down to about 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:41.440 5 feet. It had a lot of air pockets in it, so 00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:44.119 it was deteriorating, both in thickness and in 00:19:44.119 --> 00:19:48.119 density. Bill, that brings up a point. In the 00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:50.720 early days, there were some accidents. How were 00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:55.039 those airstrips named? Well, Williams Field was 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:57.579 named after an equipment operator by the name 00:19:57.579 --> 00:20:01.539 of Carl Williams and Carl Williams lost his life. 00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:05.839 They were offloading a ship. The ship had come 00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:09.079 in and they were offloading on the ice and Carl 00:20:09.079 --> 00:20:13.220 Williams ran a dozer, a caterpillar dozer. Usually 00:20:13.220 --> 00:20:17.180 they had 20 tons sled capacity. They could handle 00:20:17.180 --> 00:20:21.759 20 tons. Kyle Williams, unfortunately, they had 00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:24.400 a fault in the ice at one place, and they had 00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:28.039 done some work on it with putting wood bridges 00:20:28.039 --> 00:20:32.039 in to sort of spread out the weight. But in his 00:20:32.039 --> 00:20:35.059 particular case, he had crossed this bridge, 00:20:35.319 --> 00:20:38.279 and his dozer had gone across it okay, but the 00:20:38.279 --> 00:20:41.220 sled he was pulling when he hit the snow bridge 00:20:41.220 --> 00:20:44.980 broke through and then pulled him in backwards. 00:20:45.649 --> 00:20:48.490 The situation, I don't know if it's changed any 00:20:48.490 --> 00:20:52.250 now, but then it's hard to imagine with water 00:20:52.250 --> 00:20:55.029 that cold, it was pretty much, if you went into 00:20:55.029 --> 00:20:58.750 the water, there was no saving. People have asked, 00:20:58.769 --> 00:21:00.549 you know, could maybe have forgotten this guy 00:21:00.549 --> 00:21:03.470 or whatever, but Perales, the water was so cold 00:21:03.470 --> 00:21:07.509 that Perales would sit in almost instantly. So 00:21:07.509 --> 00:21:09.670 if you hit that sea water, you know, for any 00:21:09.670 --> 00:21:12.309 reason, whatever you went in, and in his case, 00:21:12.609 --> 00:21:14.730 being inside that dozer, you know, it happened 00:21:14.730 --> 00:21:19.470 so quick, And those things were so heavy that 00:21:19.470 --> 00:21:21.750 he was gone. As soon as they went in, that was 00:21:21.750 --> 00:21:25.650 it, he was gone. This is remarkable because when 00:21:25.650 --> 00:21:28.069 I was a kid, they would show news clips before 00:21:28.069 --> 00:21:32.690 movies. And I remember seeing a news clip about 00:21:32.690 --> 00:21:35.690 building Little America, which was what the early 00:21:35.690 --> 00:21:39.230 camps were named. And they showed that news clip 00:21:39.230 --> 00:21:42.049 of him busting through the ice and going, I remember 00:21:42.049 --> 00:21:46.700 that as a kid. They wouldn't show that today 00:21:46.700 --> 00:21:52.700 but I'll always remember seeing that. Our motto 00:21:52.700 --> 00:21:56.259 when we were there on Sundays was a day off for 00:21:56.259 --> 00:21:59.299 us and a lot of times the New Zealanders would 00:21:59.299 --> 00:22:01.720 come by our base with their dog floods and they'd 00:22:01.720 --> 00:22:04.420 be on their way going out to visit something 00:22:04.420 --> 00:22:06.839 out on the glacial or something and they'd invite 00:22:06.839 --> 00:22:09.759 us to go along with them and our motto always 00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:12.000 was down there, we really don't want an airstrip. 00:22:12.190 --> 00:22:17.509 named after us. So we would decline their offers. 00:22:17.829 --> 00:22:20.190 These guys, they would go anywhere out there 00:22:20.190 --> 00:22:23.230 without a second thought and most of the American 00:22:23.230 --> 00:22:25.369 guys, you know, they were pretty conservative 00:22:25.369 --> 00:22:28.309 about going anywhere. New Zealanders are crazy. 00:22:28.910 --> 00:22:31.410 I mean they're crazy. We've all heard the stories 00:22:31.410 --> 00:22:34.069 about New Zealanders. They're crazy in combat 00:22:34.069 --> 00:22:36.730 and they're crazy and things like that. They're 00:22:36.730 --> 00:22:39.630 wild men. I'll tell you the crew that we had 00:22:39.630 --> 00:22:42.890 down there, they were Like I say, they were hardy 00:22:42.890 --> 00:22:45.490 guys and they wouldn't give a thought about taking 00:22:45.490 --> 00:22:48.650 off out on a glacier with dog sleds. They'd be 00:22:48.650 --> 00:22:50.769 gone and, you know, they'd come to our camp and 00:22:50.769 --> 00:22:53.390 stop and talk and that. But, you know, like I 00:22:53.390 --> 00:22:56.049 say, we usually, we'd be blind. We'd step close 00:22:56.049 --> 00:22:58.529 to home. You know, when I said they're crazy, 00:22:58.589 --> 00:23:01.750 I say that lovingly. I say it admiringly. These 00:23:01.750 --> 00:23:04.009 guys are something else. Like early mountain 00:23:04.009 --> 00:23:08.009 men here. Now, they had dog sleds. So, how do 00:23:08.009 --> 00:23:10.880 they feed those dogs? Well, you know, it's a 00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:13.880 funny situation down there. We had, in the international 00:23:13.880 --> 00:23:18.380 agreement, the continent of Antarctica is weapons 00:23:18.380 --> 00:23:20.839 free and they would have annual inspections. 00:23:21.059 --> 00:23:23.900 They'd have a committee come to the ice and visit 00:23:23.900 --> 00:23:26.519 all these stations to make sure that nobody had 00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:30.480 weapons at these stations. However, the New Zealanders 00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:35.799 were allotted 130 -06 and they would shoot seals 00:23:35.799 --> 00:23:42.079 at the pressure ridges for dog food. They feed 00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:45.079 the seal meat to their dog. They always told 00:23:45.079 --> 00:23:49.799 us that most of the Americans, if we went anywhere 00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:52.799 on the ice, we always had snowmobiles. The New 00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:56.700 Zealanders always used the sled dogs. They would 00:23:56.700 --> 00:23:59.019 say to us, if you ever get out there on the ice 00:23:59.019 --> 00:24:02.720 and you get pinned down, these dogs, they can 00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:05.079 provide heat for us. And there's a lot of things 00:24:05.079 --> 00:24:07.200 a dog can provide. All right, we're on a break 00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:10.660 right now. We'll be back right after this announcement. 00:24:12.519 --> 00:24:15.059 Kerry, on board the USS San Diego on January 00:24:15.059 --> 00:24:18.920 21st, 1915, began to take half -hourly readings 00:24:18.920 --> 00:24:21.480 of the steam pressure at every boiler. He had 00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:23.579 read the steam and air pressure on number two 00:24:23.579 --> 00:24:25.940 boiler and was just stepping through the electric 00:24:25.940 --> 00:24:28.660 watertight door into number one fire room when 00:24:28.660 --> 00:24:31.039 the boilers in number two fire room exploded. 00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:34.359 Carey stopped and held open the doors, which 00:24:34.359 --> 00:24:36.400 were being closed electrically from the bridge 00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:39.000 and yelled to the men in No. 2 Fire Room to escape, 00:24:39.460 --> 00:24:42.640 three of them dead. Carey's action undoubtedly 00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:45.400 saved the lives of these men. He held the doors 00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:47.779 probably a minute with the escaping steam from 00:24:47.779 --> 00:24:51.160 the ruptured boilers around him. His example 00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:53.599 of coolness did much to keep the men in No. 1 00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:56.180 Fire Room at their post, calling fires although 00:24:56.180 --> 00:24:58.680 five boilers in their immediate vicinity had 00:24:58.680 --> 00:25:01.920 exploded. and boilers number one and three apparently 00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:04.480 had no water in them and were likely to explode 00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:06.920 any instant. Kerry directed the men in this fire 00:25:06.920 --> 00:25:09.519 room into the bunker, for they well knew the 00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:12.259 danger of these two boilers exploding. The Medal 00:25:12.259 --> 00:25:14.599 of Honor series is a production of Veterans Radio. 00:25:15.019 --> 00:25:17.700 Some of us old timers might recognize that old 00:25:17.700 --> 00:25:20.019 Spike Jones song has something to do with the 00:25:20.019 --> 00:25:23.480 Navy. I don't know why I had to put that in there 00:25:23.480 --> 00:25:26.599 because we're talking about the South. We're 00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:29.680 talking about Antarctica, and we're talking to 00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:33.099 Bill George and Dale Cockrell, both CVs down 00:25:33.099 --> 00:25:36.660 there. I was supposed to make an announcement. 00:25:37.900 --> 00:25:40.819 Matt, are you in there? Somebody told me to make 00:25:40.819 --> 00:25:43.920 an announcement right now. Did they? No? Okay. 00:25:44.380 --> 00:25:49.160 Maybe that was last time. ADD, folks. That's 00:25:49.160 --> 00:25:52.470 me on the hoof. What were we talking about? Bill, 00:25:53.190 --> 00:25:55.950 finish up that story about the New Zealanders 00:25:55.950 --> 00:26:01.930 with the sled dogs. They keep them warm if they're 00:26:01.930 --> 00:26:06.109 caught out there on the ice. Anything else? That's 00:26:06.109 --> 00:26:10.069 what they told us. They said that the dogs provide 00:26:10.069 --> 00:26:12.529 a number of issues if they really got pinned 00:26:12.529 --> 00:26:16.049 down. Sometimes these storms would roll in within 00:26:16.049 --> 00:26:19.400 an hour or less. You'd be pinned down. get in 00:26:19.400 --> 00:26:21.980 what we call the whiteout situation where if 00:26:21.980 --> 00:26:24.460 you literally held your hand in front of your 00:26:24.460 --> 00:26:27.519 face, you couldn't see it. So when you got into 00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:30.640 those positions, the best thing to do would be 00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:32.980 to hunker down and hold off until, you know, 00:26:33.079 --> 00:26:36.039 the wind blew itself out for whatever time it 00:26:36.039 --> 00:26:38.759 took. So if they were out there on the ice somewhere 00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:41.500 and they got pinned down, they always had their 00:26:41.500 --> 00:26:44.940 dogs with them and they could provide a number 00:26:44.940 --> 00:26:47.819 of issues to keep them alive. One of them being 00:26:47.819 --> 00:26:51.960 heat. I guess on second thought, let's not go 00:26:51.960 --> 00:26:57.720 into the other issues. I figured I'd hold off 00:26:57.720 --> 00:27:00.960 on that one. Good deal. You know what though, 00:27:01.039 --> 00:27:03.859 I was doing a lot of research last night about 00:27:03.859 --> 00:27:07.960 Operation Deep Freeze and I remember Little America 00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:09.960 was the first camp that was built there down 00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:12.960 in the 1930s and then there was Little America 00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:16.839 2, 3, 4 and 5 and such that were built after 00:27:16.839 --> 00:27:22.150 the war. When I got to Vietnam, we set up tents 00:27:22.150 --> 00:27:25.289 and a dried up rice paddy and started building 00:27:25.289 --> 00:27:27.809 the camp for the rest of the battalion that was 00:27:27.809 --> 00:27:30.650 going to be coming in 30 days. I hadn't thought 00:27:30.650 --> 00:27:34.490 about this, but those camps that you guys lived 00:27:34.490 --> 00:27:38.029 in were built out on the ice and they just didn't 00:27:38.029 --> 00:27:41.230 magically appear. There was a whole bunch of 00:27:41.230 --> 00:27:44.710 CBs that got there and set up tents on the ice 00:27:44.710 --> 00:27:48.180 and started building. the first permanent camp. 00:27:49.059 --> 00:27:52.119 Could you guys imagine doing that? Now that was 00:27:52.119 --> 00:27:55.900 back in the 1950s and I guess back in the 1930s, 00:27:56.180 --> 00:27:59.759 setting up and building permanent buildings on 00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:04.039 top of ice. What do you think they encountered, 00:28:04.039 --> 00:28:06.619 Bill, when they were doing that? What would the 00:28:06.619 --> 00:28:08.579 conditions have been like? Tell us about the 00:28:08.579 --> 00:28:10.779 weather, the hottest, the coldest, the winds. 00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:16.859 I'll tell you, this was something. The air base, 00:28:17.019 --> 00:28:19.539 Williams Field, we would shut it down in March. 00:28:19.779 --> 00:28:22.599 And then, in the end of August, right around 00:28:22.599 --> 00:28:24.960 September 1st, we would have to go out there 00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:27.960 and reopen. And so this place had been shut down 00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:31.079 for several months. And you get out there. And 00:28:31.079 --> 00:28:34.440 the snowpack had buried. We lived in quants of 00:28:34.440 --> 00:28:38.220 huts that we had assembled. And they were basically 00:28:38.220 --> 00:28:42.690 floors. the arches and then we would cover the 00:28:42.690 --> 00:28:47.410 arches with a thick insulated blanket and you 00:28:47.410 --> 00:28:49.809 know you'd get out there and the first thing 00:28:49.809 --> 00:28:52.150 everybody did was we all worked in the buddy 00:28:52.150 --> 00:28:56.069 system in pairs because we'd be working in temperatures 00:28:56.069 --> 00:29:00.430 usually at least around 25 to 30 below out there 00:29:00.430 --> 00:29:03.750 so maximum temperature. You're saying this is 00:29:03.750 --> 00:29:07.289 the beginning of summer? Right. 25 to 30 below. 00:29:07.829 --> 00:29:10.410 Okay, all you other people out there, quit complaining 00:29:10.410 --> 00:29:17.329 about the cold. Go ahead. So anyways, you know, 00:29:17.329 --> 00:29:19.309 we just worked in the body system. I was going 00:29:19.309 --> 00:29:22.970 to say our maximum temperature at McMurdo the 00:29:22.970 --> 00:29:25.250 year that we were there, I think we were somewhere 00:29:25.250 --> 00:29:29.230 in the mid 50s below zero in the wintertime and 00:29:29.230 --> 00:29:33.250 the summertime, the warmest temperature we got 00:29:33.250 --> 00:29:36.329 was in the mid 50s. but on the other end of the 00:29:36.329 --> 00:29:39.809 scale above zero. So we were minus zero in the 00:29:39.809 --> 00:29:42.589 winter and plus zero in the summer. And I'll 00:29:42.589 --> 00:29:44.650 tell you, when it got to 50 degrees and you're 00:29:44.650 --> 00:29:48.329 on the glacier, it creates about 10 or 12 inches 00:29:48.329 --> 00:29:52.390 of slush on top of the glacier. And so to walk 00:29:52.390 --> 00:29:55.349 anywhere, you can't imagine how hard it is. It's 00:29:55.349 --> 00:29:58.589 like slogging through mud. Wow. It's hard to 00:29:58.589 --> 00:30:00.650 go anywhere. You know what I'm saying? Sure. 00:30:00.930 --> 00:30:05.339 Yeah. What about the sun? I mean, there couldn't 00:30:05.339 --> 00:30:07.660 have been clouds down there if there was no precipitation, 00:30:07.779 --> 00:30:12.319 is that correct? There would be clouds, but they 00:30:12.319 --> 00:30:15.220 were usually not the precipitate and produce 00:30:15.220 --> 00:30:19.079 type of clouds, but there would be clouds. Chance 00:30:19.079 --> 00:30:26.119 of sunburn? Oh, sunburn was a very prevalent 00:30:26.119 --> 00:30:30.019 thing. I have to tell you, my family accused 00:30:30.019 --> 00:30:32.700 me of not being in Antarctica because I had such 00:30:32.700 --> 00:30:37.480 a nice tan. They just took photos of my face 00:30:37.480 --> 00:30:41.680 from working outdoors all the time. We had a 00:30:41.680 --> 00:30:45.420 real nice tan on the face, but the sun down there 00:30:45.420 --> 00:30:48.299 is so piercing. I think I was talking to you 00:30:48.299 --> 00:30:51.779 yesterday about the fact that when we had our 00:30:51.779 --> 00:30:55.819 roads set up, one of the issues we had with roads 00:30:55.819 --> 00:31:00.000 was keeping anything that was dark off the road 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:03.019 surface because the sun was so intense there 00:31:03.019 --> 00:31:08.279 that anything dark would heat up and melt down 00:31:08.279 --> 00:31:11.559 through the surface of our roads. Our road surfaces 00:31:11.559 --> 00:31:15.140 were basically frozen ice. So if you happen to 00:31:15.140 --> 00:31:18.799 get a piece of mud or stone, the sun would bake 00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:20.839 this thing and it would melt down through that 00:31:20.839 --> 00:31:23.000 surface and then it would create a pot hole. 00:31:23.259 --> 00:31:26.140 in the road because we were out there maintaining 00:31:26.140 --> 00:31:31.400 these roads all the time for service. There were 00:31:31.400 --> 00:31:33.579 gravel lines. What were you telling me about 00:31:33.579 --> 00:31:39.200 the wind bill when the wind would blow? Well, 00:31:39.299 --> 00:31:41.859 I said that, you know, things you don't think 00:31:41.859 --> 00:31:44.099 about is in the wintertime when we were there 00:31:44.099 --> 00:31:47.440 we had winds in excess of 100 miles an hour and 00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:50.819 if you were out watching some of this stuff one 00:31:50.819 --> 00:31:52.900 of the things that would strike you as odd is 00:31:52.910 --> 00:31:57.029 watching gravel blow down the road. When we were 00:31:57.029 --> 00:32:00.210 at McMurdo on this volcanic island, you'd see 00:32:00.210 --> 00:32:03.650 stones rolling by. That's when you know the wind 00:32:03.650 --> 00:32:12.069 is really howling. You just never see that. I 00:32:12.069 --> 00:32:16.750 was looking at the historical temperatures and 00:32:16.750 --> 00:32:22.509 the coldest ever reported was 86 below zero Fahrenheit. 00:32:22.809 --> 00:32:26.329 And coupled with 100 mile an hour wind, what 00:32:26.329 --> 00:32:29.150 do you suppose the wind chill factor would be, 00:32:29.410 --> 00:32:35.869 Dale? Probably around 180 to 200 below. That's 00:32:35.869 --> 00:32:38.230 cold. You can basically drop it a degree per 00:32:38.230 --> 00:32:42.250 mile an hour. Oh, really? Okay. In the most proximity 00:32:42.250 --> 00:32:44.650 of it, yeah. Bill, what were you saying about 00:32:44.650 --> 00:32:46.450 a cup of water if you threw it up in the air? 00:32:47.369 --> 00:32:53.150 Yeah, I said anything where you... got into temperatures 00:32:53.150 --> 00:32:58.750 that were colder than minus 20 or 22. You could 00:32:58.750 --> 00:33:01.190 literally go outside and throw a cup of water 00:33:01.190 --> 00:33:03.730 in the air. And before the water would hit the 00:33:03.730 --> 00:33:07.309 ground, it would be ice -crisp. So I mean, when 00:33:07.309 --> 00:33:09.789 you're there and you're new and you're early, 00:33:09.930 --> 00:33:11.730 you're almost like a tourist. You want to see 00:33:11.730 --> 00:33:14.569 all this stuff once. But how many times can you 00:33:14.569 --> 00:33:18.509 throw a cup of water in the air? You do it once, 00:33:18.509 --> 00:33:32.390 you see it. When it's 20 or 25 below, you don't 00:33:32.390 --> 00:33:35.210 stay out there very long. By the same token, 00:33:35.329 --> 00:33:36.930 you know what? During the winter, there were 00:33:36.930 --> 00:33:41.609 times when the temperatures would warm up to 00:33:41.609 --> 00:33:46.710 maybe 10 above. Usually, that meant that a storm 00:33:46.710 --> 00:33:49.329 was coming. If we got into the warmer temperatures, 00:33:49.529 --> 00:33:52.150 That meant something was brewing, you know. But 00:33:52.150 --> 00:33:55.529 at 10 above, we would be outside in what we called 00:33:55.529 --> 00:33:58.529 a waffle iron. That would be just our thermal 00:33:58.529 --> 00:34:02.950 tops, our long sleeve underwear. And we'd be 00:34:02.950 --> 00:34:06.029 outside playing football without jackets at 10 00:34:06.029 --> 00:34:08.849 above. So, you know, we were acclimated to it, 00:34:08.869 --> 00:34:11.650 you know. And 10 above, to us, felt quite warm. 00:34:14.530 --> 00:34:17.230 Did you see any wildlife while you were down 00:34:17.230 --> 00:34:20.929 there? Dale, you answer that one, okay? Well, 00:34:20.929 --> 00:34:24.630 we had a population of emperor penguins, deli 00:34:24.630 --> 00:34:30.989 penguins, leopard seals, waddail seals, and schuagulls. 00:34:30.989 --> 00:34:35.349 They were all pretty much an everyday occurrence 00:34:35.349 --> 00:34:39.409 to see those, particularly during the summer 00:34:39.409 --> 00:34:41.329 season. You didn't see the penguins that much. 00:34:42.759 --> 00:34:46.099 after dark. It would be kind of hard to see them, 00:34:46.119 --> 00:34:50.639 aren't they black? If they were facing you they 00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:55.039 would just look like more ice. I've got a photograph 00:34:55.039 --> 00:34:58.719 someplace if I can find it in my archives of 00:34:58.719 --> 00:35:02.500 an ice floe going out. There was probably 15 00:35:02.500 --> 00:35:04.880 or 20 Adélie penguins that looked like a little 00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:09.619 chorus going out to sea. That was after the ice 00:35:09.619 --> 00:35:12.079 break. Now the leopard seals, they're the big 00:35:12.579 --> 00:35:15.960 They're the big ones. They're the ones that love 00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:19.800 to prey on penguins. You wouldn't want to get 00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:22.940 too close to them, I imagine. No, no. The Waddell 00:35:22.940 --> 00:35:27.940 seals, they were just massive. Very slow moving. 00:35:30.380 --> 00:35:33.440 Gary, one of the things you had to be careful 00:35:33.440 --> 00:35:35.780 about the leopard seals is if you were anywhere 00:35:35.780 --> 00:35:38.639 that you were on what would be considered a little 00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:41.469 bit thin ice. Because a lot of times leopard 00:35:41.469 --> 00:35:44.429 seals hunted by shadows. If they saw shadows 00:35:44.429 --> 00:35:47.570 moving, you know, through the ice, these leopard 00:35:47.570 --> 00:35:50.869 seals would come shooting through the ice like 00:35:50.869 --> 00:35:54.309 a missile, thinking it's a penguin. So, you know, 00:35:54.449 --> 00:35:57.610 we were always cautious about thin ice was bad 00:35:57.610 --> 00:36:00.789 enough to be on, but also it was another factor 00:36:00.789 --> 00:36:02.670 with the seals. You didn't want to be somewhere 00:36:02.670 --> 00:36:04.929 where one of these leopard seals would mistake 00:36:04.929 --> 00:36:07.090 you for a penguin, you know. Do you ever see 00:36:07.090 --> 00:36:11.820 any Oh boy, a minute and ten seconds left on 00:36:11.820 --> 00:36:14.340 this, but so real quick, you ever see any killer 00:36:14.340 --> 00:36:16.900 whales down there either of you? No, I never 00:36:16.900 --> 00:36:20.219 saw one. I was in the service of the guy that 00:36:20.219 --> 00:36:25.780 was going down to Antarctica. He was a CB and 00:36:25.780 --> 00:36:30.579 their ship developed a crack in the keel during 00:36:30.579 --> 00:36:34.280 the night. It was pretty rough weather and they 00:36:34.280 --> 00:36:36.659 thought that was pretty bad as you could well 00:36:36.659 --> 00:36:40.639 imagine. And when the light came, they found 00:36:40.639 --> 00:36:42.820 out it was a lot worse than they imagined because 00:36:42.820 --> 00:36:45.079 the scientists said they couldn't explain it, 00:36:45.079 --> 00:36:47.039 but it was like a migration of killer whales. 00:36:47.420 --> 00:36:49.380 And as far as you could see, in either direction 00:36:49.380 --> 00:36:51.699 were killer whales that were swimming in the 00:36:51.699 --> 00:36:55.659 same direction as the ship. So it was going to 00:36:55.659 --> 00:36:57.739 be bad enough if the ship went down in that kind 00:36:57.739 --> 00:37:00.199 of weather, but when you're surrounded by thousands 00:37:00.199 --> 00:37:03.380 of killer whales, it sort of takes the confidence 00:37:03.380 --> 00:37:08.199 away from you. The bilge pumps are working. No 00:37:08.199 --> 00:37:10.820 atheist in a voxel. I imagine there was no atheist 00:37:10.820 --> 00:37:13.619 in the ship that day. We're coming up on a break. 00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:16.920 We're talking to two former CBs that spent the 00:37:16.920 --> 00:37:21.280 weekend, that spent the year on the ice of Antarctica 00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:24.380 at Operation Deep Freeze, Bill George and Dale 00:37:24.380 --> 00:37:28.239 Cockrell back in 1969. We'll be back right after 00:37:28.239 --> 00:37:44.250 these messages. It's been a long, long time. 00:37:44.369 --> 00:37:46.329 I think that was Glenn Miller, I'm not real sure, 00:37:46.389 --> 00:37:49.190 but for you guys down on the ice, when you were 00:37:49.190 --> 00:37:51.369 down there with nothing but a bunch of guys, 00:37:51.429 --> 00:37:54.150 it had to seem like a long, long time since you'd 00:37:54.150 --> 00:37:59.289 seen the last female, and indeed it was. Bill, 00:38:00.349 --> 00:38:05.130 what was I going to say? Oh, I put on the flyer 00:38:05.130 --> 00:38:09.309 a little bit of a teaser about swimming on the 00:38:09.309 --> 00:38:13.059 glacier in Antarctica. That was your story tell 00:38:13.059 --> 00:38:15.739 us about tell us about how it was that you guys 00:38:15.739 --> 00:38:19.260 went swimming on the glacier Well, we we had 00:38:19.260 --> 00:38:21.699 a device down there that we made our we made 00:38:21.699 --> 00:38:24.280 our water with and the water what we did was 00:38:24.280 --> 00:38:26.719 we had vehicles with scoops on the front of them 00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:30.599 that would Scoop snow and we had a it was like 00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:35.119 a fairly large Stainless steel box called the 00:38:35.119 --> 00:38:37.519 snow melter and we would melt the snow for our 00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:41.880 water So this is how we supplied our galley and 00:38:41.880 --> 00:38:45.760 our drinking water from the snowmine. And what 00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:48.579 we did was at the end of the year, after the 00:38:48.579 --> 00:38:53.820 base, all the BXC -6, we called them Airedale, 00:38:54.079 --> 00:38:56.659 had left and we were closing down Williams Field 00:38:56.659 --> 00:39:01.539 for the winter, we were a small skeleton crew 00:39:01.539 --> 00:39:04.880 there. So we filled the snowmelter up and fired 00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:08.019 this baby up and when we got the the water up 00:39:08.019 --> 00:39:10.380 warm enough in the snowmelter there's a couple 00:39:10.380 --> 00:39:13.780 of us all went swimming in the snowmelt. This 00:39:13.780 --> 00:39:17.380 box was probably about I would guess about five 00:39:17.380 --> 00:39:20.179 foot by five foot and maybe about five foot deep 00:39:20.179 --> 00:39:24.019 you know. That was our swimming pool. Sort of 00:39:24.019 --> 00:39:26.099 like a hot tub and I imagine the guys that were 00:39:26.099 --> 00:39:28.159 drinking that water in the spring didn't know 00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:32.280 what you guys had done. No Gary, we drained it. 00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:34.719 We were in the process. We were draining this 00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:39.019 out. Oh sure, I'm sure you did. We wouldn't do 00:39:39.019 --> 00:39:41.960 that to those Airedales, you know that. By the 00:39:41.960 --> 00:39:44.059 way, for the non -Navy people, Airedales are 00:39:44.059 --> 00:39:49.730 the Navy guys that work on airplanes. And the 00:39:49.730 --> 00:39:53.250 deck people were black shoes and those that worked 00:39:53.250 --> 00:39:56.309 down below decks were Snipes. Snipes had red 00:39:56.309 --> 00:39:59.550 stripes, Airedale's had green stripes, black 00:39:59.550 --> 00:40:01.929 shoes had white stripes, and C .B.'s had blue 00:40:01.929 --> 00:40:05.369 stripes until you hit Petty Officer, right? Do 00:40:05.369 --> 00:40:09.710 I remember it correctly? That's right. We had 00:40:09.710 --> 00:40:13.449 nicknames for everybody at our GCA tower. We 00:40:13.449 --> 00:40:16.690 called them Tower Flowers. the guys in public 00:40:16.690 --> 00:40:19.030 works that worked at the airstrip we were strip 00:40:19.030 --> 00:40:23.530 rats and so you know we we had nicknames guys 00:40:23.530 --> 00:40:26.650 that lived in McMurdo we call that town so we 00:40:26.650 --> 00:40:30.050 call them town clowns so you know nicknames for 00:40:30.050 --> 00:40:32.489 everybody that was the service that's the military 00:40:32.489 --> 00:40:36.570 right right then each individual usually had 00:40:36.570 --> 00:40:39.650 a nickname that they go by well we had that in 00:40:39.650 --> 00:40:41.969 our squad and you know the politically correct 00:40:41.969 --> 00:40:44.190 people that would gasp at some of the names we 00:40:44.190 --> 00:40:47.710 had for each other in our squad was just typical 00:40:47.710 --> 00:40:52.130 of any GIs back in those days. That's right. 00:40:53.289 --> 00:40:58.289 I won't go over on the air, but they were politically 00:40:58.289 --> 00:41:03.190 incorrect. That was the good old days. You know, 00:41:03.190 --> 00:41:05.809 Dale has always been well known. His nickname 00:41:05.809 --> 00:41:10.590 on the ice, he was Beef. Dale is a big guy. I 00:41:10.590 --> 00:41:14.610 would say he's a big six -footer. He was always 00:41:14.610 --> 00:41:17.739 Beef. That's what we call them, and a lot of 00:41:17.739 --> 00:41:20.239 guys probably didn't know his last name was Cockrell. 00:41:21.579 --> 00:41:23.460 And there's a lot of the guys we wintered with, 00:41:23.480 --> 00:41:26.219 if I call them I have to tell them this is beef. 00:41:26.599 --> 00:41:31.019 They don't know me by day all day. We had a guy 00:41:31.019 --> 00:41:34.719 in our squad called Fat Willie. Fat Willie had 00:41:34.719 --> 00:41:37.039 about an inch of skin that you could grab around 00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:42.760 his side, and that was fat. What about shaving? 00:41:42.860 --> 00:41:45.300 How hard was it to shave down there in that cold? 00:41:46.639 --> 00:41:52.300 I haven't shaved since I got left there. Dale, 00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:55.579 did you shave it all down there? Every photograph 00:41:55.579 --> 00:41:57.800 I've seen of people down on the ice, they all 00:41:57.800 --> 00:42:01.860 have beards. Pretty much. There might have been 00:42:01.860 --> 00:42:04.079 a few that shaved, but pretty much everybody 00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:09.070 grew beards. That was just, it was a common thing 00:42:09.070 --> 00:42:12.730 for being in Antarctica, like I say. Maybe a 00:42:12.730 --> 00:42:17.190 small percentage didn't, but pretty much. One 00:42:17.190 --> 00:42:19.050 of the things I was going to tell you about, 00:42:19.130 --> 00:42:22.510 I was going to mention to you, I think they tried 00:42:22.510 --> 00:42:25.750 to keep our spirits up with different things 00:42:25.750 --> 00:42:29.070 going on during the year. We had four months 00:42:29.070 --> 00:42:31.590 of total darkness there where we never saw the 00:42:31.590 --> 00:42:35.340 sun. So we would have celebrations like we had 00:42:35.340 --> 00:42:38.380 a celebration for the sundown party and we had 00:42:38.380 --> 00:42:40.679 a celebration for the midwinter party and we 00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:43.780 had a celebration for the sunup party. You know 00:42:43.780 --> 00:42:45.900 that was the year that the Beatles came out with 00:42:45.900 --> 00:42:48.219 their Abbey Road album and one of the cuts on 00:42:48.219 --> 00:42:52.139 it was Here Comes the Sun and that was our anthem 00:42:52.139 --> 00:42:54.340 down there. You know we were waiting for that 00:42:54.340 --> 00:42:57.559 sun. That was one of the items we really looked 00:42:57.559 --> 00:43:00.000 forward to was if you haven't seen the sun in 00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:03.940 four months. You know, you want to see what that 00:43:03.940 --> 00:43:06.340 ball of fire looks like. Oh my, you know what, 00:43:06.699 --> 00:43:10.539 we were trying to figure out what kind of bump 00:43:10.539 --> 00:43:14.739 music, that's where you come back on. Like that? 00:43:15.619 --> 00:43:19.559 Are you guys doing that accent? Did you guys 00:43:19.559 --> 00:43:23.000 do that on purpose or did the computer do it? 00:43:24.099 --> 00:43:28.840 Thank you, computer. Right on time. The bump 00:43:28.840 --> 00:43:33.650 music. I couldn't come up with anything. I did 00:43:33.650 --> 00:43:35.889 think, oh, the weather outside is frightful. 00:43:36.570 --> 00:43:40.769 The next sentence would have been, since they've 00:43:40.769 --> 00:43:44.750 had women in the military and don't ask, don't 00:43:44.750 --> 00:43:47.750 tell is gone. The next sentence could have fit 00:43:47.750 --> 00:43:49.690 in there, but I thought, well, that's not politically 00:43:49.690 --> 00:43:52.889 incorrect, so I won't even talk about it. But 00:43:52.889 --> 00:43:54.869 here comes the sun would have been a great one 00:43:54.869 --> 00:44:00.300 to have. It nailed exactly what we were in. That 00:44:00.300 --> 00:44:05.420 old song, it was about us. That was it. It described 00:44:05.420 --> 00:44:08.280 it to a chief. And the anthem for Vietnam vets 00:44:08.280 --> 00:44:10.940 is, we've got to get out of this place. Here's 00:44:10.940 --> 00:44:13.960 to all the reunions too. Alright, I'm going to 00:44:13.960 --> 00:44:16.860 turn this just kind of like free fire. Bill, 00:44:16.920 --> 00:44:20.159 tell us something that I didn't ask that you 00:44:20.159 --> 00:44:23.599 think should have been covered. Well, you know, 00:44:23.920 --> 00:44:26.320 you've got to think about our communication at 00:44:26.320 --> 00:44:28.739 that time. The only communication that we had 00:44:28.739 --> 00:44:33.019 with the states was by ham radio. So, every time 00:44:33.019 --> 00:44:35.579 when we spoke to home, we ran what they call 00:44:35.579 --> 00:44:39.159 phone patches. You know, you could talk one at 00:44:39.159 --> 00:44:41.719 a time, either the person in Antarctic to talk 00:44:41.719 --> 00:44:45.679 or the person at home talk. So, and in between 00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:47.719 when you finished your talking, you would say 00:44:47.719 --> 00:44:50.829 over. And so, my mother... God rest her soul. 00:44:51.050 --> 00:44:53.110 She was like an Edith Bunker. That's the best 00:44:53.110 --> 00:44:57.110 way to describe her. I loved her dearly. I had 00:44:57.110 --> 00:45:00.469 to listen to directions. So every time I called 00:45:00.469 --> 00:45:02.550 home, I would tell the ham operator, this is 00:45:02.550 --> 00:45:04.849 a first time call. And they would explain to 00:45:04.849 --> 00:45:07.929 my mother, Mrs. George, I'm going to have your 00:45:07.929 --> 00:45:10.050 son. He's going to come on the line there. And 00:45:10.050 --> 00:45:12.030 he's going to talk to you. And then he's going 00:45:12.030 --> 00:45:13.849 to say over. And the phone's going to go blank. 00:45:13.869 --> 00:45:16.269 And they said, you talk to him. He'll be able 00:45:16.269 --> 00:45:18.519 to hear you. You talk for a while and when you're 00:45:18.519 --> 00:45:21.000 done talking you say over again and then he'll 00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:23.940 talk. And so then, you know, they put me on and 00:45:23.940 --> 00:45:26.340 I'd say, hi mom, how you doing? I'm doing great. 00:45:26.440 --> 00:45:28.119 You know, the temperature's been this or that. 00:45:28.280 --> 00:45:30.679 I did this and that and then I'd go over. And 00:45:30.679 --> 00:45:33.320 then my mother would go, Bill? Bill, are you 00:45:33.320 --> 00:45:36.960 there? And inevitably, you know, the hand operator 00:45:36.960 --> 00:45:40.000 would break in, this is George. He's there. He 00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:43.820 can hear you. Just talk. You know, every time 00:45:43.820 --> 00:45:48.949 it was the same thing, you know. People who aren't 00:45:48.949 --> 00:45:51.409 used to phone patches, you know what I mean? 00:45:51.789 --> 00:45:54.070 Yes, they have in Vietnam, but most of us didn't 00:45:54.070 --> 00:45:57.429 bother with it because it would patch all over 00:45:57.429 --> 00:46:00.230 the world before it got home. The same thing 00:46:00.230 --> 00:46:04.170 that you're talking about. Exactly. Dale, how 00:46:04.170 --> 00:46:07.170 about you? What little thing sticks out in your 00:46:07.170 --> 00:46:10.269 mind that nobody would ever think about that 00:46:10.269 --> 00:46:15.400 happened down there? Anything? Yeah, I remember 00:46:15.400 --> 00:46:19.980 the 4th of July celebration where the Kiwis tried 00:46:19.980 --> 00:46:25.380 to avenge the Queen and they were going to steal 00:46:25.380 --> 00:46:31.460 our flag and somebody stole the Queen's picture. 00:46:32.820 --> 00:46:35.659 And the glass on it, as Bill reminded me, got 00:46:35.659 --> 00:46:39.059 broken and caused almost an international incident. 00:46:40.519 --> 00:46:45.420 But it was all in good fun. broken glass. Real 00:46:45.420 --> 00:46:47.460 quick, did you guys have to have psychological 00:46:47.460 --> 00:46:49.380 testing before you went down there? I heard that 00:46:49.380 --> 00:46:51.300 was for people that were going to win her over. 00:46:52.260 --> 00:46:58.920 Yes. And did you pass? Evidently. You know Gary, 00:46:59.019 --> 00:47:01.519 we had one individual that stood out in my mind. 00:47:01.559 --> 00:47:04.119 We went to Washington D .C. for our screening. 00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:07.760 So they'd have us all standing in the hallway 00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:13.079 waiting to speak to these psychologists. They 00:47:13.079 --> 00:47:15.820 called the gentleman's name and he came up there 00:47:15.820 --> 00:47:19.840 and he was holding a portable TV. He asked them, 00:47:19.840 --> 00:47:22.539 he said, can I bring my TV in with me? They said 00:47:22.539 --> 00:47:25.119 to him, do you always carry this TV? The guy 00:47:25.119 --> 00:47:28.119 said, well yeah, I usually have it with me. He 00:47:28.119 --> 00:47:30.659 went in the room and that was the last we saw 00:47:30.659 --> 00:47:35.960 of him. He never made it to Antarctica. They 00:47:35.960 --> 00:47:38.039 figured he was a little too attached to the TV 00:47:38.039 --> 00:47:40.730 there. You have to wonder if some of these people 00:47:40.730 --> 00:47:44.010 did it on purpose. Dale Cockrell, Bill George, 00:47:44.769 --> 00:47:47.769 former CBs who spent the winter, well who spent 00:47:47.769 --> 00:47:50.329 a year on the ice in Antarctica, thank you so 00:47:50.329 --> 00:47:53.050 much for being with us. We're out of time as 00:47:53.050 --> 00:47:56.969 usual and for you guys to welcome home. Folks, 00:47:57.190 --> 00:47:59.449 tune in next week. We're going to have another 00:47:59.449 --> 00:48:02.210 fascinating program. Hopefully we'll have as 00:48:02.210 --> 00:48:04.949 much fun as today, a lot of laughs with the two 00:48:04.949 --> 00:48:09.070 former CBs. And until then, you are dismissed. 00:48:34.139 --> 00:48:34.860 you