WEBVTT 00:00:17.059 --> 00:00:20.019 And good morning America and welcome to Veterans 00:00:20.019 --> 00:00:22.780 Radio. My name is Dale Throneberry and I'll be 00:00:22.780 --> 00:00:26.000 kind of your facilitator today but our host this 00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:30.480 morning is Dwight Zimmerman. This is our At Ease 00:00:30.480 --> 00:00:33.200 segment of Veterans Radio and I was just looking 00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:35.560 here at our notes and I see that this is the 00:00:35.560 --> 00:00:38.060 beginning of its second year for Dwight being 00:00:38.060 --> 00:00:40.560 the host of the At Ease segment and Dwight is 00:00:40.560 --> 00:00:42.840 an award -winning author as we all know and president 00:00:42.840 --> 00:00:45.509 of the Military Writers Association. society, 00:00:45.810 --> 00:00:48.530 excuse me, and Dwight, welcome back to Veterans 00:00:48.530 --> 00:00:53.810 Radio. Thank you, Dale. Glad to be here and kicking 00:00:53.810 --> 00:00:58.189 off the first show of our second season. It's 00:00:58.189 --> 00:01:02.409 amazing how time flies. Especially when you're 00:01:02.409 --> 00:01:06.849 having fun. Yes, indeed. And at ease, everyone, 00:01:07.010 --> 00:01:10.409 is coming to you live from Studio 4F. at Veterans 00:01:10.409 --> 00:01:12.909 Radio East here in Brooklyn, New York where the 00:01:12.909 --> 00:01:15.909 weather is absolutely gorgeous. As it is here. 00:01:16.090 --> 00:01:19.150 I think we've finally broken that winter jinx 00:01:19.150 --> 00:01:21.150 although it did snow just the other day here 00:01:21.150 --> 00:01:26.090 again. Yes, my mother in North Dakota has been 00:01:26.090 --> 00:01:29.689 complaining about the weather patterns and she's 00:01:29.689 --> 00:01:33.010 ready for spring. Well, that is true. Well, as 00:01:33.010 --> 00:01:35.329 we know that this segment every month that Dwight 00:01:35.329 --> 00:01:37.629 does for the At Ease is that he talks with different 00:01:37.629 --> 00:01:40.209 authors about different types of books. And so, 00:01:40.310 --> 00:01:42.069 Dwight, who are your guests coming up today? 00:01:42.510 --> 00:01:45.430 We have a great group today. We're welcoming 00:01:45.430 --> 00:01:49.909 back my friend Stephen Koontz, who's got a new 00:01:49.909 --> 00:01:54.909 book out, Pirate Alley. And my longtime friend, 00:01:55.129 --> 00:01:57.769 Wayne Van Zandt, has done an absolutely stunning 00:01:57.980 --> 00:02:00.680 graphic history of Gettysburg. I'm really excited 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:05.439 about that for him. And Mike Ridland, together 00:02:05.439 --> 00:02:09.479 with Gary Brozek, has written an absolutely incredible 00:02:09.479 --> 00:02:12.900 story about, it's titled Trident K -9 Warriors. 00:02:13.020 --> 00:02:16.020 It's about military working dogs and these are 00:02:16.020 --> 00:02:19.500 ones that have been trained for special operations 00:02:19.500 --> 00:02:23.960 missions. It's a riveting account and I can't 00:02:23.960 --> 00:02:26.479 wait to start talking to him about all of that. 00:02:26.750 --> 00:02:29.810 But before we get into that, we have, as we've 00:02:29.810 --> 00:02:34.949 been doing recently on the show, a Test Your 00:02:34.949 --> 00:02:38.389 Civil War IQ question taken from my upcoming 00:02:38.389 --> 00:02:40.990 book that's going to be out this fall called 00:02:40.990 --> 00:02:45.129 Test Your Civil War IQ. There are 500 questions 00:02:45.129 --> 00:02:49.689 in it, and it's wide -ranging. And today I have 00:02:49.689 --> 00:02:53.939 a question here that someone calls in. and gives 00:02:53.939 --> 00:02:57.159 us the correct answer, they will get an autographed 00:02:57.159 --> 00:02:59.919 copy of my book, Uncommon Valor, the Medal of 00:02:59.919 --> 00:03:02.680 Honor, and the warriors who earned it in Afghanistan 00:03:02.680 --> 00:03:05.580 and Iraq. That's a pretty good prize because 00:03:05.580 --> 00:03:07.259 I've read that book and of course Dwight has 00:03:07.259 --> 00:03:09.360 talked about that book on the program before. 00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:12.240 I think you're going to have to do an updated 00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:13.759 version of it because you're going to have to 00:03:13.759 --> 00:03:16.180 add a few more Medal of Honor recipients it sounds 00:03:16.180 --> 00:03:21.000 like. I am so happy that we are getting more 00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:26.439 and more because for so many years. We just didn't 00:03:26.439 --> 00:03:34.520 have any. I was able to include a couple extra 00:03:34.520 --> 00:03:36.919 in the paperback edition, and then of course 00:03:36.919 --> 00:03:40.259 we've had more since, so we will see how it plays 00:03:40.259 --> 00:03:45.000 out. Now, onto our question. I have to do a drum 00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:48.259 roll. Oh, okay. Okay, and the question of the 00:03:48.259 --> 00:03:52.460 day is? True or false? The U .S. Army Medal of 00:03:52.460 --> 00:03:55.280 Honor was the first authorized Medal of Honor. 00:03:56.300 --> 00:03:59.620 True or false? The Army Medal of Honor was the 00:03:59.620 --> 00:04:02.300 first Medal of Honor designed, I guess you could 00:04:02.300 --> 00:04:05.840 say. Yep. And utilized. So all you gotta do is 00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:07.819 give us a call here at Veterans Radio and that 00:04:07.819 --> 00:04:15.319 number is 877 -573 -7825. 877 -573 -7825 with 00:04:15.319 --> 00:04:17.860 your answer, true or false? And you'll win an 00:04:17.860 --> 00:04:20.199 incredible book. We're going to be coming right 00:04:20.199 --> 00:04:22.800 back with Dwight's first guest that Stephen Koontz 00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:26.540 is on the line. So we're going to do a little 00:04:26.540 --> 00:04:29.220 break here to earn a couple of dollars or shekels, 00:04:29.240 --> 00:04:32.220 I guess you could call them. And we'll be right 00:04:32.220 --> 00:04:35.420 back with Dwight Zimmerman and At Ease. We're 00:04:35.420 --> 00:04:37.800 back on Veterans Radio and we are going to turn 00:04:37.800 --> 00:04:41.079 it over now to our Studio 4F in Brooklyn, New 00:04:41.079 --> 00:04:43.660 York with Dwight Zimmerman. Dwight, you are on. 00:04:44.420 --> 00:04:47.639 Thank you, Dale. And my first guest I'm happy 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:50.800 to welcome back is New York Times bestselling 00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:53.579 author Stephen Koontz with his latest book, Private 00:04:53.579 --> 00:04:57.459 Alley. Stephen, welcome. Hello Dwight. Welcome 00:04:57.459 --> 00:05:02.500 back. It's good to talk to you again. Yes. You 00:05:02.500 --> 00:05:05.560 know, your books, I have to say I have a love 00:05:05.560 --> 00:05:08.560 -hate relationship with them. I love them because 00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:10.759 I know I'm going to have a great time reading 00:05:10.759 --> 00:05:13.319 them, but I hate them because literally I can't 00:05:13.319 --> 00:05:16.339 put the darn things down. Well, that's great. 00:05:16.699 --> 00:05:19.000 That's a wonderful thing for an author to hear. 00:05:19.899 --> 00:05:23.500 Yes, I know. This was an absolute incredible 00:05:23.500 --> 00:05:26.819 ride. And I have to say, you've got some powerful 00:05:26.819 --> 00:05:28.959 quotes here. I'm looking at the back jacket here. 00:05:29.220 --> 00:05:32.720 Former Defense Secretary William Cohen, W .E 00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:38.420 .B. Griffin, Larry Bond. Dalton Fury, who did 00:05:38.420 --> 00:05:42.680 Kill Bin Laden, Howard Watson of SEAL Team 6, 00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:47.800 Jim DeFelice. You didn't mess around here, did 00:05:47.800 --> 00:05:52.519 you? Well, these authors, including Stephen Hunter, 00:05:52.639 --> 00:05:57.319 were very, very kind. And I'm obviously very 00:05:57.319 --> 00:05:59.240 flattered by some of the things they said about 00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:03.920 the book. Now this is the latest in a series 00:06:03.920 --> 00:06:06.139 of books that you've written featuring the characters 00:06:06.139 --> 00:06:12.300 Jake Grafton and Tommy Carmelini. How many books 00:06:12.300 --> 00:06:17.079 in the series? This is the fifth. Okay. Give 00:06:17.079 --> 00:06:19.399 our listeners a little bit of background about 00:06:19.399 --> 00:06:22.920 how the series evolved. Well, Tommy Carmelini 00:06:22.920 --> 00:06:25.120 was in the Jake Grafton books starting with the 00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:28.620 book Cuba and as a minor character and The more 00:06:28.620 --> 00:06:30.899 I used him, the more I liked him and finally 00:06:30.899 --> 00:06:35.500 decided after liberty that Jake was, you know, 00:06:36.060 --> 00:06:40.800 he's a senior officer and was getting long in 00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:42.879 the tooth to be an action adventure hero and 00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:46.839 I decided to use Tommy to tell the main story 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:50.300 in Liars and Thieves in the first person. And 00:06:50.300 --> 00:06:55.060 Tommy is young, he's hip, he's irreverent and 00:06:55.060 --> 00:06:59.959 he's just a... You know a burglar who got dragooned 00:06:59.959 --> 00:07:04.000 into joining the CIA and so he works out very 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:07.339 very well as a major action -adventure character 00:07:07.339 --> 00:07:11.639 and so anyway we've had a lot of fun with him 00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:14.980 and the readers seem to like him and so he's 00:07:14.980 --> 00:07:17.319 back again telling his portion of the tale when 00:07:17.319 --> 00:07:21.800 the first person and Jake sorta is the wise old 00:07:21.800 --> 00:07:24.980 head that directs the action and orchestrates 00:07:24.980 --> 00:07:28.779 the drama. Well, yes, and there is a lot of drama 00:07:28.779 --> 00:07:32.519 in this story. So if you could please summarize 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:37.000 the plot here of Pirate Alley. Well, Pirate Alley 00:07:37.000 --> 00:07:40.660 is about the Somali pirates capturing a cruise 00:07:40.660 --> 00:07:44.639 ship. It's set today in the Gulf of Aden. The 00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:48.800 pirates actually, after a drawn -out naval battle, 00:07:49.139 --> 00:07:52.779 managed to get the cruise ship with 450 passengers 00:07:52.779 --> 00:07:57.930 and 350 crewmen. into the port of Ely, or actually 00:07:57.930 --> 00:08:00.870 it's Isle, E -Y -L, Isle of Somalia, which is 00:08:00.870 --> 00:08:04.310 just a flash speck on the Somalia coast, ruled 00:08:04.310 --> 00:08:08.730 by a pirate chieftain named Ragnar. He wants 00:08:08.730 --> 00:08:12.370 $200 million ransom and Jake Grafton has assigned 00:08:12.370 --> 00:08:16.310 the task of rescuing the crew and the passengers 00:08:16.310 --> 00:08:25.079 of the ship. kicker in here that really raises 00:08:25.079 --> 00:08:29.899 the stakes. Right. You know, the Shabab, which 00:08:29.899 --> 00:08:33.299 is the Islamic fundamentalist revolutionary group 00:08:33.299 --> 00:08:35.519 that's been fighting the civil war in Somalia 00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:39.799 for 17 years, plans to actually confiscate the 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:42.200 ransom and kill all the passengers and crew in 00:08:42.200 --> 00:08:45.419 a terror act that they hope will ignite worldwide 00:08:45.419 --> 00:08:49.909 jihad. And the United States gets wind of that, 00:08:50.090 --> 00:08:52.590 and so that raises the stakes for the rescue. 00:08:53.830 --> 00:08:56.669 You know, and I have to say, when you come to 00:08:56.669 --> 00:08:59.789 creating villains, you scored big time. Your 00:08:59.789 --> 00:09:04.529 pirates are brutal. Well, you know, I think the 00:09:04.529 --> 00:09:07.649 key to a good thriller is good villains. And 00:09:07.649 --> 00:09:12.129 obviously we need a fun hero for the fans, for 00:09:12.129 --> 00:09:15.279 the readers to root for, but... You know, heroes 00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:18.059 are measured by the size of the villains they 00:09:18.059 --> 00:09:23.039 face. And so, you know, pirates are, they're 00:09:23.039 --> 00:09:25.299 a classic. You know, anything from pirates to 00:09:25.299 --> 00:09:29.379 the Caribbean to today's real pirates, they're 00:09:29.379 --> 00:09:35.940 not warm and fuzzy folks. No, the way you did 00:09:35.940 --> 00:09:42.679 that, they sure, they're anything but. What really 00:09:42.679 --> 00:09:48.720 impressed me is all these many little touches, 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:51.240 these vignettes that you have that really help 00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:54.360 round out the story. You've got an absolute jerk 00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:58.620 of a Secretary of State, a former Stasi member 00:09:58.620 --> 00:10:02.419 who is a passenger on the ship who is now a cocaine 00:10:02.419 --> 00:10:08.860 mule. Somali woman who near the end comes onto 00:10:08.860 --> 00:10:11.600 the scene briefly with an AK -47 and murder in 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:15.559 her eye. And then there's this woman passenger 00:10:15.559 --> 00:10:19.139 who winds up being raped and the revenge that 00:10:19.139 --> 00:10:23.820 she gets. You cover the range. Well, you know, 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:26.019 one of the things that I wanted, this isn't just 00:10:26.019 --> 00:10:29.399 a military story, it's a story of also the passengers 00:10:29.399 --> 00:10:32.490 and the crewmen. And, you know, can you imagine 00:10:32.490 --> 00:10:35.169 a more horrifying thing to be captured by pirates 00:10:35.169 --> 00:10:38.950 and held for ransom and the pirates really don't 00:10:38.950 --> 00:10:42.389 care if the passengers live or die. And these 00:10:42.389 --> 00:10:45.429 people get ill and they have their problems and 00:10:45.429 --> 00:10:48.129 they're being held against their will and kidnapped, 00:10:48.129 --> 00:10:52.990 in effect, for ransom. And so, you know, I wanted 00:10:52.990 --> 00:10:55.210 to get the... I wanted to... the readers to get 00:10:55.210 --> 00:10:57.389 the feel for what that might be like. Obviously, 00:10:57.570 --> 00:11:02.769 we can't write about 350 passengers and 350 crewmen, 00:11:02.889 --> 00:11:05.210 but we can pick certain people and tell their 00:11:05.210 --> 00:11:10.669 stories. Yep. And yeah, it really held my interest, 00:11:10.830 --> 00:11:14.450 I have to say. The way we were bouncing around 00:11:14.450 --> 00:11:19.470 the different scenes and the little touches and 00:11:19.470 --> 00:11:25.379 how these little stories progressed. Well done. 00:11:26.059 --> 00:11:28.559 Well, thank you. We have high hopes for the book. 00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:30.500 It will actually be in the bookstores. It will 00:11:30.500 --> 00:11:34.000 be released on May 7th. And, of course, it can 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:37.120 be preordered from bookstores, online, wherever. 00:11:38.100 --> 00:11:41.340 And my publisher is excited. I'm excited. We 00:11:41.340 --> 00:11:43.759 think we've got a great cover for it. We've got 00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:47.110 a story that will... captivate anybody that ever 00:11:47.110 --> 00:11:49.269 took a cruise or anybody that's contemplating 00:11:49.269 --> 00:11:51.610 taking a cruise. Well, you might even tear it 00:11:51.610 --> 00:11:55.789 off some people. And we hope it'll also attract 00:11:55.789 --> 00:11:58.789 all the fans of Jake Grafton and Tommy Carmelini 00:11:58.789 --> 00:12:06.190 through the years. Yes, well, I just have to 00:12:06.190 --> 00:12:08.450 say I've been just so impressed with the story. 00:12:09.610 --> 00:12:12.149 I think it took me about eight hours of straight 00:12:12.149 --> 00:12:18.299 reading to do. Well, I think Stephen Hunter called 00:12:18.299 --> 00:12:23.759 it the one -sit read book of the year. And it's 00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:27.460 not a huge book, but it's hopefully an action 00:12:27.460 --> 00:12:30.960 adventure that will appeal to today's readers 00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:33.200 who are looking for a light reading and something 00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:35.299 to divert them from the problems of the everyday 00:12:35.299 --> 00:12:41.440 world. Yes, indeed. Now, you served in the military, 00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:46.750 correct? Yes. Total of 21 years active in reserve, 00:12:46.970 --> 00:12:50.909 retired from the Navy and flew A6s in Vietnam 00:12:50.909 --> 00:12:56.110 and did a couple of cruises off the Enterprise 00:12:56.110 --> 00:12:58.590 the last two years or three years, the Vietnam 00:12:58.590 --> 00:13:01.470 War. And then I was a flight instructor on A6s 00:13:01.470 --> 00:13:05.169 and various other things and then went to law 00:13:05.169 --> 00:13:07.710 school and became an attorney and stayed in the 00:13:07.710 --> 00:13:11.539 Naval Reserve. And I finally got into writing 00:13:11.539 --> 00:13:14.840 in the mid -80s and I've been a full -time novelist 00:13:14.840 --> 00:13:18.820 since about 1986. So I think this has turned 00:13:18.820 --> 00:13:25.440 into a career. Wow. So what's your next project? 00:13:26.179 --> 00:13:29.259 Well, the next project is already in the can 00:13:29.259 --> 00:13:33.539 and it's done. It's the third of the Saucer series. 00:13:33.539 --> 00:13:36.820 I wrote a light sci -fi series called Saucer 00:13:36.820 --> 00:13:40.360 and then Saucer the Conquest. This is the third 00:13:40.360 --> 00:13:42.840 and last of the trilogy, and it'll be published 00:13:42.840 --> 00:13:46.980 next winter by St. Martin's Press. Back by popular 00:13:46.980 --> 00:13:49.860 demand, I've been inundated with emails through 00:13:49.860 --> 00:13:53.340 the years by people that read the first two saucer 00:13:53.340 --> 00:13:56.299 books and demanded a third one, and that finally 00:13:56.299 --> 00:14:00.159 persuaded me to sandwich it in between thrillers. 00:14:01.309 --> 00:14:04.570 the aliens arrive in the last one. So I've had 00:14:04.570 --> 00:14:07.210 a lot of fun with that and I think it's going 00:14:07.210 --> 00:14:10.769 to captivate the readers because I had to find 00:14:10.769 --> 00:14:13.549 a completely new and different way to do aliens. 00:14:13.950 --> 00:14:16.490 We've had everything from H .G. Wells' War of 00:14:16.490 --> 00:14:20.730 the Worlds to zombies and aliens who take over 00:14:20.730 --> 00:14:23.210 the White House and all this other stuff. So 00:14:23.210 --> 00:14:25.929 I had to do something different and I think this 00:14:25.929 --> 00:14:30.759 is different and the readers will enjoy it. Well, 00:14:30.779 --> 00:14:33.419 tell me a little bit about the research that 00:14:33.419 --> 00:14:37.620 you do, because like Pirate Alley, for example, 00:14:38.179 --> 00:14:43.340 I really felt like I was there, even in that 00:14:43.340 --> 00:14:47.399 Somali town. Very vivid. Well, you know, the 00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:50.799 Somali town, I altered it slightly, but I looked 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:54.799 at satellite photographs of Isle Somalia and... 00:14:54.759 --> 00:14:59.220 and read a lot on the current U .S. Navy and 00:14:59.220 --> 00:15:03.019 allied Navy ops to try to protect ships. Read 00:15:03.019 --> 00:15:05.519 everything I could find on the pirates and how 00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:08.779 the Somali pirates actually work and the situation 00:15:08.779 --> 00:15:14.700 in Somalia. And then ran various portions of 00:15:14.700 --> 00:15:19.019 the book by experts. For example, my former BN 00:15:19.019 --> 00:15:21.580 is a retired admiral and he read the military 00:15:21.580 --> 00:15:25.070 portions. suggested changes which were made to 00:15:25.070 --> 00:15:31.809 try to simulate reality and get a little verisimilitude 00:15:31.809 --> 00:15:36.490 in there. I'm not writing books about how the 00:15:36.490 --> 00:15:39.809 military does it. I'm writing thrillers. But 00:15:39.809 --> 00:15:42.230 it still had to be close enough to reality that 00:15:42.230 --> 00:15:46.559 the people had a good read. Yes, indeed. Well, 00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:49.720 I'm talking here with Stephen Koontz, whose latest 00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:53.860 book, Pirate Alley, is an absolutely fascinating 00:15:53.860 --> 00:15:57.639 read. And Stephen, if you could, again, tell 00:15:57.639 --> 00:16:01.679 our listeners, because the book is going to be 00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:04.000 out soon, when it will be released again, please? 00:16:04.299 --> 00:16:07.960 It will be released on May 7th. It will be on 00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:10.940 sale in all the nation's bookstores on May 7th. 00:16:11.379 --> 00:16:14.580 It is currently available for pre -order online. 00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:20.500 and pre -order in bookstores. And I might also, 00:16:20.500 --> 00:16:24.440 Dwight, tell readers that they can read an excerpt 00:16:24.440 --> 00:16:29.039 from it on my website, which is www .koontz .com. 00:16:29.299 --> 00:16:31.700 And you've got to spell my name right, c -o -o 00:16:31.700 --> 00:16:37.340 -n -t -s dot com. Indeed. I just wanted to jump 00:16:37.340 --> 00:16:40.440 in here because I am reading the book on his 00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:44.039 website right now. Stephen, I want people to 00:16:44.039 --> 00:16:47.159 realize that you also wrote Flight of the Intruder, 00:16:47.179 --> 00:16:51.480 which many of us saw in the movies and have read 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:54.700 often. Your story is just fascinating. I wanted 00:16:54.700 --> 00:16:58.000 to make sure that our people know that you write 00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:02.019 such a wide variety of books. Well, I've tried, 00:17:02.019 --> 00:17:04.240 you know, I've tried to keep the juices flowing 00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:07.880 by doing different things. I've written, let's 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:11.440 see, this is the 16th thriller. And then there's 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:14.619 three saucer books. There's five anthologies. 00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:18.359 Some of them contain original fiction, some of 00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:22.019 which I wrote. And then there's nine co -authored 00:17:22.019 --> 00:17:24.759 books that appear, eight of them in paperback 00:17:24.759 --> 00:17:28.480 and one hardcover, the Deep Black series. I've 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:31.160 been busy scribbling. I think I've got 32 or 00:17:31.160 --> 00:17:37.200 33 books in print. And as I say, Saucer 3, the 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:40.019 title is Saucer Savage Planet. It'll be out next 00:17:40.019 --> 00:17:43.029 winter. And meanwhile, I've got to get busy on 00:17:43.029 --> 00:17:46.049 another thriller, Jake and Tommy, and hope to 00:17:46.049 --> 00:17:48.549 turn it in about the first of December for publication 00:17:48.549 --> 00:17:52.470 in 2014. You don't want to get these guys just 00:17:52.470 --> 00:17:54.849 sitting around not doing anything, right? Yeah. 00:17:55.750 --> 00:17:59.009 Well, writer's right. It's an incomplete day 00:17:59.009 --> 00:18:01.390 if you don't spend three or four hours at the 00:18:01.390 --> 00:18:05.369 computer making pages. I wanted to jump in here, 00:18:05.390 --> 00:18:07.210 remind our audience, if you'd like to talk with 00:18:07.210 --> 00:18:11.230 Stephen, give us a call here at 877 -573 -7825 00:18:11.230 --> 00:18:13.430 and don't forget you need to answer that question 00:18:13.430 --> 00:18:16.509 about the Medal of Honor. I was just fascinated 00:18:16.509 --> 00:18:18.430 because I just recently was at the airport in 00:18:18.430 --> 00:18:20.670 Phoenix and going through the little bookstore 00:18:20.670 --> 00:18:23.230 and you've got yourself a whole little section 00:18:23.230 --> 00:18:27.660 there. Well, thank you very much. I've been very 00:18:27.660 --> 00:18:30.319 fortunate. I've been a professional writer. I 00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:33.319 managed to stay in this game for about 27 years 00:18:33.319 --> 00:18:40.440 now, and that is rare. So I thank my lucky stars 00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:43.000 and also thank the American public, which is 00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:45.400 I read these books in numbers sufficient to keep 00:18:45.400 --> 00:18:51.230 me eating. I hope they continue to do so. Yes, 00:18:51.230 --> 00:18:55.069 indeed. Well, the way you keep writing here, 00:18:55.809 --> 00:18:59.589 I can see you'll definitely keep an audience. 00:19:02.789 --> 00:19:04.950 Dwight, we've got some of your other guests on 00:19:04.950 --> 00:19:07.549 the line, so if you'd like to, we can say goodbye 00:19:07.549 --> 00:19:10.650 to Stephen and move on. Let's do that. Stephen, 00:19:10.869 --> 00:19:13.650 again, thank you so much for being on At Ease, 00:19:13.670 --> 00:19:17.339 and good luck with Pirate Alley. and your other 00:19:17.339 --> 00:19:19.859 projects. Well, thank you very much, Dwight, 00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:23.579 for having me on your show, and good luck. Have 00:19:23.579 --> 00:19:28.599 a great day. You too. Okay. Bye -bye. Wow, Dwight. 00:19:28.740 --> 00:19:31.700 I didn't know where you find these guys. That's 00:19:31.700 --> 00:19:34.339 pretty amazing. I mean, it was amazing when I 00:19:34.339 --> 00:19:36.059 saw the list of authors that you had on today, 00:19:36.099 --> 00:19:38.299 and I wasn't kidding. I was in the airport, and 00:19:38.299 --> 00:19:39.579 I was looking at one of those bookstores, and 00:19:39.579 --> 00:19:41.339 I'm going, oh, there's that name. I know that 00:19:41.339 --> 00:19:43.789 name. And it's only because that you've been 00:19:43.789 --> 00:19:46.450 able to bring these on and can you talk just 00:19:46.450 --> 00:19:50.009 real briefly? Stephen mentioned, you know writers, 00:19:50.170 --> 00:19:54.609 right and that You know, you must have to sit 00:19:54.609 --> 00:19:57.130 down and write a little every day. Don't you? 00:19:57.930 --> 00:20:01.430 If I'm not physically writing Then I'm doing 00:20:01.430 --> 00:20:04.809 research because as you know, I do nonfiction 00:20:04.809 --> 00:20:08.569 stuff and the amount of research Involved, you 00:20:08.569 --> 00:20:10.849 know, even in the short articles that I do a 00:20:10.849 --> 00:20:19.029 lot of You have to read, read, distill, and then 00:20:19.029 --> 00:20:24.950 sit on it. There are times where I'll just sit 00:20:24.950 --> 00:20:31.069 down and physically be writing away. Other times 00:20:31.069 --> 00:20:35.750 it's doing the research. It is seven days a week 00:20:35.750 --> 00:20:38.950 type of work. Now I do have to say that I'm not 00:20:38.950 --> 00:20:41.990 constantly writing with respect to doing an eight 00:20:41.990 --> 00:20:47.769 or 10 hour day. I used to, but now the actual 00:20:47.769 --> 00:20:51.509 writing is, as Stephen said, about three to four 00:20:51.509 --> 00:20:57.269 hours. But then the other times I'm doing research, 00:20:57.529 --> 00:21:00.690 reading books, reading articles on the internet. 00:21:03.049 --> 00:21:06.789 Yeah, it is what we do. It sounds like a glamorous 00:21:06.789 --> 00:21:10.190 life, but it's a lonely one. It is a lot of work, 00:21:10.250 --> 00:21:13.089 and I just wanted our audience to know how much 00:21:13.089 --> 00:21:16.269 work is involved with this. And also, you're 00:21:16.269 --> 00:21:18.230 working with the Military Writers Society, and 00:21:18.230 --> 00:21:21.009 you have, what, 900 members of that organization 00:21:21.009 --> 00:21:23.690 now, and every time I've met all of them, other 00:21:23.690 --> 00:21:26.170 than breaking for the conference, they all try 00:21:26.170 --> 00:21:28.470 to sit down and write X number of hours every 00:21:28.470 --> 00:21:32.859 day or X number of words every single day. Yeah, 00:21:34.220 --> 00:21:39.019 everybody has his or her own system, but yet 00:21:39.019 --> 00:21:41.940 you do have to be very disciplined, regardless 00:21:41.940 --> 00:21:45.460 of how you approach it, because you have to be 00:21:45.460 --> 00:21:52.920 alone. Sometimes writers are their own worst 00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:54.980 enemies because they can always figure out a 00:21:54.980 --> 00:21:59.920 distraction to avoid writing. Yeah, the only 00:21:59.920 --> 00:22:01.660 way that you can actually get something done 00:22:01.660 --> 00:22:04.200 is to just sit down and do it Well, we've got 00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:06.700 another guest for you that sat down and did it 00:22:06.700 --> 00:22:10.259 and this is your author on the trident canine 00:22:10.259 --> 00:22:13.720 warriors And why don't you introduce Mike? Okay, 00:22:13.819 --> 00:22:21.140 Mike, are you there? Okay There there you are 00:22:21.140 --> 00:22:25.779 welcome Mike, thank you appreciate it. Yes and 00:22:25.779 --> 00:22:30.160 Mike Ritlin has written with Gary Brozek the 00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:35.259 book Trident Canine Warriors about elite Navy 00:22:35.259 --> 00:22:41.140 SEAL military working dogs. And first, Mike, 00:22:41.140 --> 00:22:44.539 I have to apologize. The book arrived just a 00:22:44.539 --> 00:22:47.539 couple days ago. This is apparently an earlier 00:22:47.539 --> 00:22:49.900 copy. It had gotten lost in the mail. So I'm 00:22:49.900 --> 00:22:51.940 still in the middle of reading this, but I have 00:22:51.940 --> 00:22:55.400 to say you have written a fascinating story here. 00:22:55.480 --> 00:22:58.400 It's packed with a lot more information than 00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:03.180 I expected. Well, good. You know, my intention 00:23:03.180 --> 00:23:08.160 was in fact to do just that. I had seen a lot 00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:11.180 of different reports out, you know, especially 00:23:11.180 --> 00:23:14.240 after the Bin Laden raid. There seemed to be 00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:19.259 a lot of perpetuated myths and just factually 00:23:19.259 --> 00:23:22.769 incorrect statements that were out. regarding 00:23:22.769 --> 00:23:25.369 the use of canines, most specifically in special 00:23:25.369 --> 00:23:29.309 operations. But there also seemed to be a great 00:23:29.309 --> 00:23:32.470 lack of knowledge and understanding that they 00:23:32.470 --> 00:23:35.789 even existed. You know, when I saw how much interest 00:23:35.789 --> 00:23:39.230 there was in that specific dog just by himself 00:23:39.230 --> 00:23:41.670 and how many people wanted to know more about 00:23:41.670 --> 00:23:45.470 it and how few people knew a lot about them, 00:23:45.470 --> 00:23:48.759 you know, it made me... realize that number one, 00:23:49.099 --> 00:23:51.339 somebody with credibility and the knowledge to 00:23:51.339 --> 00:23:54.059 be able to put that out there needs to do just 00:23:54.059 --> 00:23:56.740 that. But also I thought it was important to 00:23:56.740 --> 00:24:02.259 highlight just exactly how fascinating and incredible 00:24:02.259 --> 00:24:05.279 these dogs are and how much they do help us overseas. 00:24:06.319 --> 00:24:10.440 Indeed, and I'm completely captivated by what 00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:14.740 you've written here. So if you could tell our 00:24:14.740 --> 00:24:19.400 listeners Mike, your background, your military 00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:24.259 background, and how that led you to become involved 00:24:24.259 --> 00:24:29.900 with the military working dogs. Sure. I guess 00:24:29.900 --> 00:24:35.559 taking a step back, I actually grew up with working 00:24:35.559 --> 00:24:38.720 dogs my entire life. I had bird dogs growing 00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:41.920 up and then I got into to catch dogs, hogs, dog, 00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:45.440 hog dogs years after that. And then when I was 00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:48.619 on deployment, combat deployment in Iraq as a 00:24:48.619 --> 00:24:53.859 SEAL, there was a Marine working dog. And a group 00:24:53.859 --> 00:24:56.339 of Marines, the dog was out front. They were 00:24:56.339 --> 00:24:58.900 getting ready to enter a cave complex that had 00:24:58.900 --> 00:25:01.559 a very small opening that they could just barely 00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:04.819 fit through. And the dog was out front. And he 00:25:04.819 --> 00:25:08.700 went out and searched and indicated that there 00:25:08.700 --> 00:25:10.700 was explosives right inside the doorway. And 00:25:10.700 --> 00:25:13.369 as it would turn out, there was a grenade booby 00:25:13.369 --> 00:25:15.789 trap right inside the door. And had that dog 00:25:15.789 --> 00:25:19.490 not been there, without question, the first one 00:25:19.490 --> 00:25:21.250 in the three guys would have been either killed 00:25:21.250 --> 00:25:26.410 or severely injured. And for me, that was a very 00:25:26.410 --> 00:25:29.130 stark realization in my mind that that could 00:25:29.130 --> 00:25:31.829 have just as easily been our group. It could 00:25:31.829 --> 00:25:34.549 have just as easily been me. And why aren't we 00:25:34.549 --> 00:25:39.829 using these dogs everywhere we go? And for me, 00:25:39.910 --> 00:25:42.039 it just... It was a light switch moment. From 00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:46.000 that day forward, I inundated myself with all 00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:47.960 the best trainers I could find. I read as many 00:25:47.960 --> 00:25:50.339 books as I could get my hands on, trained with 00:25:50.339 --> 00:25:53.240 as many dogs as I could. And then when the dog 00:25:53.240 --> 00:25:57.319 program out on the West Coast, in the West Coast 00:25:57.319 --> 00:26:00.220 SEAL teams where I was stationed, when that was 00:26:00.220 --> 00:26:04.509 stood up, I played a... a small role in that 00:26:04.509 --> 00:26:07.009 as I was getting out and separating. And I was 00:26:07.009 --> 00:26:08.950 offered a position as a handler but turned it 00:26:08.950 --> 00:26:11.990 down to start my own company and provide dogs 00:26:11.990 --> 00:26:14.910 and trainers and training for that same unit. 00:26:16.329 --> 00:26:20.410 So it just, it meshes the two things that I feel 00:26:20.410 --> 00:26:23.690 most passionately about, which is dogs and the 00:26:23.690 --> 00:26:27.049 special operations community. How many years 00:26:27.049 --> 00:26:31.619 have you been doing this business? I'm going 00:26:31.619 --> 00:26:35.740 on four years now. So, you know, from early 2003 00:26:35.740 --> 00:26:41.359 until 2009 is when I, you know, just trained 00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:43.819 as much as possible and worked with as many groups 00:26:43.819 --> 00:26:46.759 as I could and, you know, kind of got my knowledge 00:26:46.759 --> 00:26:49.000 base where it needed to be and then started my 00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:50.720 own company and have been doing it for the last 00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:55.859 four years. Do you say that the breed that you 00:26:55.859 --> 00:27:01.730 prefer is the Malinois? Why is that? I guess, 00:27:02.009 --> 00:27:04.190 you know, I don't know that I'd necessarily say 00:27:04.190 --> 00:27:06.990 I prefer it. What ends up happening is that, 00:27:06.990 --> 00:27:10.369 you know, we have a very specific set of standards 00:27:10.369 --> 00:27:13.609 that we really won't compromise on in terms of 00:27:13.609 --> 00:27:17.809 what we look for in a work of dogs. And overwhelmingly, 00:27:18.089 --> 00:27:21.650 the Belgian Malinois successfully passes that 00:27:21.650 --> 00:27:25.430 selection criteria. And so while I would happily 00:27:25.430 --> 00:27:28.339 take any breed of dog provided it checks all 00:27:28.339 --> 00:27:30.579 the boxes of what I'm looking for and what I 00:27:30.579 --> 00:27:33.859 need in a good working dog. The reality of it 00:27:33.859 --> 00:27:36.359 is the Belgian Malinois Dutch Shepherd and German 00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:38.559 Shepherd, which are all very, very similar. I 00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:40.259 mean, it's kind of like the difference between 00:27:40.259 --> 00:27:43.180 a yellow lab and a chocolate lab, honestly. It's 00:27:43.180 --> 00:27:48.140 almost the same breed. But the fact of it is 00:27:48.140 --> 00:27:52.380 that those three breeds are without question 00:27:52.380 --> 00:27:55.539 the dogs that overwhelmingly pass that selection 00:27:55.539 --> 00:27:59.019 test. Okay, well we're approaching the break 00:27:59.019 --> 00:28:04.180 right now, so stay with us there Mike. We are 00:28:04.180 --> 00:28:10.180 talking with Mike Ridland about his book Trident 00:28:10.180 --> 00:28:13.779 Canine Warriors and we're going to take a little 00:28:13.779 --> 00:28:18.559 break here and be right back to finish our discussion 00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:20.819 with Mike. And you're back on Veterans Radio 00:28:20.819 --> 00:28:22.500 and we're listening to Dwight Zimmerman with 00:28:22.500 --> 00:28:27.549 this... months issue of At Ease with his guest, 00:28:28.130 --> 00:28:31.450 Mike Ridland, and Dwight, you're on. Okay, thank 00:28:31.450 --> 00:28:35.029 you, Dale. Okay, as Dale said, I'm talking with 00:28:35.029 --> 00:28:37.890 Mike Ridland here, whose book just came out, 00:28:38.130 --> 00:28:41.549 Trident Canine Warriors, about some very special 00:28:41.549 --> 00:28:44.329 military working dogs. These are trained to work 00:28:44.329 --> 00:28:47.970 with the elite units in the U .S. Special Operations 00:28:47.970 --> 00:28:52.390 Community. And Mike, again, could you tell our 00:28:52.390 --> 00:28:55.109 listeners where they can get copies of your book? 00:28:56.549 --> 00:29:00.109 Sure. The book is available through all major, 00:29:00.109 --> 00:29:05.210 you know, retail book outlets, whether it's Barnes 00:29:05.210 --> 00:29:08.250 and Nobles. You can order it online with Amazon. 00:29:08.609 --> 00:29:11.529 It's at Walmart and Target. It's at Hastings. 00:29:11.950 --> 00:29:16.349 really any major bookstore. You can find it even 00:29:16.349 --> 00:29:19.950 in the airport bookstores that's available. So 00:29:19.950 --> 00:29:23.670 there's a multitude of places to pick it up at. 00:29:25.690 --> 00:29:29.930 The thing I found fascinating was that basically 00:29:29.930 --> 00:29:34.769 what you're writing in here is that you have 00:29:34.769 --> 00:29:39.289 these canines that are essentially special operations. 00:29:41.300 --> 00:29:45.220 members, that they are elite dogs over and above 00:29:45.220 --> 00:29:47.819 what we would normally think. And I have to say, 00:29:48.859 --> 00:29:53.180 that took a little getting used to. Sure. The 00:29:53.180 --> 00:29:56.440 thing of it is, is that the dynamic nature in 00:29:56.440 --> 00:30:01.559 which we operate, it requires that if we do bring 00:30:01.559 --> 00:30:05.200 dogs on operations such as those, those dogs 00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:09.420 have to be at the absolute elite level in every 00:30:09.420 --> 00:30:14.859 regard. There's not an environment that we operate 00:30:14.859 --> 00:30:18.880 in that we can't or don't take these dogs, with 00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:21.859 the exception of diving underwater. Everywhere 00:30:21.859 --> 00:30:25.599 else, these dogs accompany with us or are accompanied 00:30:25.599 --> 00:30:30.720 with us almost exclusively. So by nature of what 00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:33.519 we do and how we do it, those dogs have to be 00:30:33.710 --> 00:30:36.369 just at the absolute highest level possible. 00:30:37.289 --> 00:30:40.109 I would equate it to the Michael Jordan's and 00:30:40.109 --> 00:30:44.549 the Kobe Bryant's of the working dog world because 00:30:44.549 --> 00:30:48.549 you need every characteristic and aspect of these 00:30:48.549 --> 00:30:52.769 dogs has to be at just an over the top level. 00:30:53.930 --> 00:30:56.089 Mike, this is Dale Thromberg. I just question, 00:30:56.170 --> 00:30:58.150 how long do you have to train these dogs before 00:30:58.150 --> 00:31:02.809 you turn them over to the seals? Well, it's several 00:31:02.809 --> 00:31:05.750 years, you know, from the time that the dog is 00:31:05.750 --> 00:31:09.589 born until he's really ready to even start training 00:31:09.589 --> 00:31:14.589 for this type of work, which is a little bit 00:31:14.589 --> 00:31:16.450 semantics. The minute the dog starts training, 00:31:16.789 --> 00:31:20.549 you know, the third day they're alive. So, you 00:31:20.549 --> 00:31:25.849 know, it's a very encompassing process, and the 00:31:25.849 --> 00:31:29.769 dogs do, you know, several years of training 00:31:29.769 --> 00:31:33.609 before they're... at the point where they are 00:31:33.609 --> 00:31:36.230 seasoned enough to do the type of work that we're 00:31:36.230 --> 00:31:41.450 asking them to do. So once I get them, it can 00:31:41.450 --> 00:31:44.289 be anywhere from the better part of a year or 00:31:44.289 --> 00:31:48.210 sometimes even longer. So there's a lot of variables 00:31:48.210 --> 00:31:51.109 that dictate how long we work with them, depending 00:31:51.109 --> 00:31:54.710 on how much training they've already had, who's 00:31:54.710 --> 00:31:56.809 getting them, and what their experience level 00:31:56.809 --> 00:32:00.349 is. You know what the what the specific operations 00:32:00.349 --> 00:32:02.670 of the dogs are going to be going on are but 00:32:02.670 --> 00:32:06.349 generally speaking it's it's a Several years 00:32:06.349 --> 00:32:09.529 of training before the dogs are are able to do 00:32:09.529 --> 00:32:11.289 the type of work that we need them to do for 00:32:11.289 --> 00:32:15.049 real Do you do you breed the dogs yourselves 00:32:15.049 --> 00:32:17.210 or do people bring them to you or you go out 00:32:17.210 --> 00:32:20.170 and look for them? Or how does that work? It's 00:32:20.170 --> 00:32:24.170 a little bit everything you know I do breed some 00:32:24.170 --> 00:32:28.289 of the animals I do buy them As young dogs from 00:32:28.289 --> 00:32:32.049 private individuals, I do import them from overseas, 00:32:32.809 --> 00:32:35.269 you know, as grown adults that have a lot of 00:32:35.269 --> 00:32:37.750 training on them and everything in between. So, 00:32:37.930 --> 00:32:41.529 you know, there's such a need for these types 00:32:41.529 --> 00:32:45.089 of dogs that what I look for is genetics. The 00:32:45.089 --> 00:32:48.190 training is what it is. Personally, I'd prefer 00:32:48.190 --> 00:32:49.910 they have the least amount of training on them 00:32:49.910 --> 00:32:53.269 possible so that I can do it from scratch the 00:32:53.269 --> 00:32:56.009 way that I want it to be done. However... Because 00:32:56.009 --> 00:32:59.769 that combination of genetics that is required 00:32:59.769 --> 00:33:02.329 to do this type of work is so incredibly rare, 00:33:03.829 --> 00:33:07.150 I'll take any dog that has all the things that 00:33:07.150 --> 00:33:09.710 I look for and when I say genetics, the certain 00:33:09.710 --> 00:33:12.250 type of testing requirements that we put them 00:33:12.250 --> 00:33:15.210 through, we're looking for what their genetics, 00:33:15.470 --> 00:33:18.630 what their inherent given traits allow them to 00:33:18.630 --> 00:33:22.710 do and makes them behave. So regardless of how 00:33:22.710 --> 00:33:25.309 much training they've had. you know, we can kind 00:33:25.309 --> 00:33:29.369 of see into the, you know, into the genetic eyes 00:33:29.369 --> 00:33:31.710 of the animal and then be able to know what exactly 00:33:31.710 --> 00:33:34.809 we're working with from other nature. So that's 00:33:34.809 --> 00:33:38.509 what we look for. And when we find it, we snatch 00:33:38.509 --> 00:33:43.630 it up and work with it. Okay. Mike, I would appreciate 00:33:43.630 --> 00:33:46.829 if you could tell us a little bit about one of 00:33:46.829 --> 00:33:52.009 the dogs and a mission that it would... he and 00:33:52.009 --> 00:33:56.690 his handler were on. And because I'm sure that 00:33:56.690 --> 00:33:59.349 our listeners would love to know what kind of 00:33:59.349 --> 00:34:03.690 missions and what they do. Sure. Absolutely. 00:34:04.349 --> 00:34:07.650 There was a specific operation in the mountains 00:34:07.650 --> 00:34:12.449 of Afghanistan where the SEAL team platoon was 00:34:12.449 --> 00:34:15.869 on patrol. They inserted via helicopter. They 00:34:15.869 --> 00:34:19.150 fast roped down with the dog. They started their 00:34:19.150 --> 00:34:22.710 patrol and got a few kilometers into it and the 00:34:22.710 --> 00:34:26.570 dog is out front sweeping for explosives out 00:34:26.570 --> 00:34:30.489 ahead of the group. And then he indicated that 00:34:30.489 --> 00:34:34.329 they were in fact not alone. He gave off some 00:34:34.329 --> 00:34:38.130 body language that the handler recognized from 00:34:38.130 --> 00:34:39.909 having done it so many times through training 00:34:39.909 --> 00:34:42.989 that the dog was saying, hey, there's somebody 00:34:42.989 --> 00:34:47.130 else out there nearby and it's not good. So they 00:34:47.130 --> 00:34:50.750 halt the patrol. The dog is released. He ran 00:34:50.750 --> 00:34:53.650 up a couple hundred yards up ahead and crashed 00:34:53.650 --> 00:34:56.469 down into a culvert on the side of the route 00:34:56.469 --> 00:34:59.889 that they were patrolling on. And there were 00:34:59.889 --> 00:35:03.670 a handful of insurgents there set up in an ambush 00:35:03.670 --> 00:35:06.289 formation, getting ready to ambush the unit walking 00:35:06.289 --> 00:35:10.909 by. They grouped in, swept in, neutralized the 00:35:10.909 --> 00:35:14.590 threat, got the dog back with them, and continued 00:35:14.590 --> 00:35:19.409 patrolling. To me, that's one of hundreds or 00:35:19.409 --> 00:35:21.949 even thousands of examples of how these dogs 00:35:21.949 --> 00:35:25.289 regularly and routinely save our guys' lives. 00:35:26.650 --> 00:35:29.469 The fact is that their nose and their hearing 00:35:29.469 --> 00:35:32.030 is so much better than ours or any equipment 00:35:32.030 --> 00:35:35.309 that we have that it's just an incredible augment. 00:35:35.530 --> 00:35:38.369 And when you combine a dog at that level with 00:35:38.369 --> 00:35:41.269 those sensory capabilities combined with special 00:35:41.269 --> 00:35:44.800 operations groups that are all on... pretty high 00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:46.960 -speed communications and night vision devices. 00:35:47.420 --> 00:35:51.280 That combination is pretty effective. So it's 00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:55.179 a veritable perfect storm of what we need to 00:35:55.179 --> 00:35:59.579 do overseas. I can't say enough praises about 00:35:59.579 --> 00:36:01.820 them and the work that they're doing for us. 00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:08.280 I echo those praises too. Mike, I want to thank 00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:11.340 you for being a guest on my program. I've been 00:36:11.340 --> 00:36:15.219 talking with Mike Ridland. and his book Trident 00:36:15.219 --> 00:36:18.760 Canine Warriors that is available at all fine 00:36:18.760 --> 00:36:24.340 bookstores and internet outlets. Mike, good luck. 00:36:25.320 --> 00:36:31.159 Could I add one thing? Sure. I started a non 00:36:31.159 --> 00:36:33.440 -profit called the Warrior Dog Foundation and 00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:36.559 we retire these dogs when they're finished with 00:36:36.559 --> 00:36:40.699 their service. And you can go to warriordogfoundation 00:36:40.699 --> 00:36:46.170 .org. and check out what we're all about. Any 00:36:46.170 --> 00:36:49.230 and all support is greatly appreciated. Yes, 00:36:49.269 --> 00:36:52.130 indeed. Okay, again, Mike, thank you so much 00:36:52.130 --> 00:36:55.070 for being a guest, and good luck with you and 00:36:55.070 --> 00:36:57.670 your foundation. All right, thank you, sir. I 00:36:57.670 --> 00:37:01.269 appreciate it. Well, there you go, Dwight. You 00:37:01.269 --> 00:37:03.739 know, people love these... these programs about 00:37:03.739 --> 00:37:06.900 dogs and the dog handlers that train them and 00:37:06.900 --> 00:37:09.460 utilize them. And we've talked to a couple of 00:37:09.460 --> 00:37:12.139 other people about these warrior dog foundations 00:37:12.139 --> 00:37:15.559 that are out there to place these dogs once their 00:37:15.559 --> 00:37:21.900 military careers are over. Yeah, it's really 00:37:21.900 --> 00:37:25.079 amazing that especially the dogs that have been 00:37:25.079 --> 00:37:29.400 wounded in action and essentially have to be 00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:33.920 retired. I have yet to get into that section 00:37:33.920 --> 00:37:37.300 in Mike's book, but when I was scanning it, he 00:37:37.300 --> 00:37:44.019 does mention post -active duty fates of these 00:37:44.019 --> 00:37:47.179 dogs. So I can't wait to get into that section 00:37:47.179 --> 00:37:51.539 and find out really what he did there. I think 00:37:51.539 --> 00:37:55.199 you're going to find it an amazing story. I'm 00:37:55.199 --> 00:37:57.239 sure that his is very similar to the other guests 00:37:57.239 --> 00:37:59.519 that we've had on Veterans Radio. I want to remind 00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:01.539 people, you know, you haven't answered his question 00:38:01.539 --> 00:38:04.860 yet, so is the Medal of Honor designed by the 00:38:04.860 --> 00:38:06.880 Army? Is that the original Medal of Honor or 00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:10.960 not? True or false? Give us a call at 877 -573 00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:16.139 -7825. You got to do that. And Dwight, your next 00:38:16.139 --> 00:38:20.449 guest is on the line and ready to go. Okay. Well, 00:38:20.789 --> 00:38:26.610 welcome, Wayne. How are you there? Oh, hey. My 00:38:26.610 --> 00:38:30.510 last guest today is writer, artist Wayne Van 00:38:30.510 --> 00:38:33.269 Zandt, and he's going to be talking about his 00:38:33.269 --> 00:38:35.570 latest book, The Graphic History of Gettysburg. 00:38:36.190 --> 00:38:39.750 Now, Wayne and I go way back. You bet. Yeah. 00:38:41.389 --> 00:38:46.860 Wayne was my artist on... graphic history of 00:38:46.860 --> 00:38:50.400 the Vietnam War that we did and also last year 00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:53.000 a graphic biography of the Hammer and the Anvil 00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:55.940 about Abraham Lincoln and Frederick Douglass. 00:38:57.679 --> 00:39:01.099 We also go back to you as an editor for me and 00:39:01.099 --> 00:39:04.559 several things before that. Oh yes, we've got 00:39:04.559 --> 00:39:07.239 a long career stretching back to our Mario years. 00:39:08.579 --> 00:39:13.239 That's right. Okay, so Wayne, tell us a little 00:39:13.239 --> 00:39:16.719 bit about this book. Okay, well the full title 00:39:16.719 --> 00:39:19.320 is Gettysburg the graphic history of America's 00:39:19.320 --> 00:39:21.920 most famous battle and the turning point of the 00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:24.679 Civil War Which is quite a mouthful, but we got 00:39:24.679 --> 00:39:27.119 all that on the cover But it's published by Zenith 00:39:27.119 --> 00:39:29.800 Press and of course there's a lot of books about 00:39:29.800 --> 00:39:33.559 Gettysburg But I have written and illustrated 00:39:33.559 --> 00:39:36.039 a lot of Civil War stuff plus You know Vietnam 00:39:36.039 --> 00:39:38.679 War two other things, but I thought with the 00:39:38.679 --> 00:39:41.559 anniversary 150th anniversary coming up. It would 00:39:41.559 --> 00:39:46.260 be a good idea for a graphic you know, graphic 00:39:46.260 --> 00:39:49.500 illustrated version of it. So that's what I pushed. 00:39:50.980 --> 00:39:54.800 You know, you can, there's a lot available on 00:39:54.800 --> 00:39:56.119 Gitties, where there are a lot of photographs, 00:39:56.619 --> 00:40:00.440 but it's hard to kind of see actually what it 00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:04.000 was like in the battles. I've tried to do that 00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:07.159 with this book. Well, it's an amazingly rich 00:40:07.159 --> 00:40:12.000 story that you did in just 96 pages, and also 00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:18.820 this is 96 full -color pages. I was really impressed 00:40:18.820 --> 00:40:25.320 with the level of quality here in the research. 00:40:26.440 --> 00:40:29.139 Tell us about this research and the accuracy. 00:40:30.099 --> 00:40:33.400 Well, I tell you, I knew a lot about the battle. 00:40:34.619 --> 00:40:38.539 My primary interest has been World War II and 00:40:38.539 --> 00:40:41.619 the Civil War, and just about everything between 00:40:41.619 --> 00:40:46.820 and after. I love history in general. But I had, 00:40:46.820 --> 00:40:49.219 of course, read a lot about the battle before 00:40:49.219 --> 00:40:51.159 I had been to Gettysburg, and that was a big 00:40:51.159 --> 00:40:56.059 help, because to me the ground is, although you 00:40:56.059 --> 00:40:58.480 have high points and all that, it's very subtle. 00:40:58.760 --> 00:41:01.420 If you look at photographs, you don't get the 00:41:01.420 --> 00:41:04.340 elevations quite as much. I tried to convey that 00:41:04.340 --> 00:41:08.280 as best as I could, because just a simple rise 00:41:08.280 --> 00:41:11.079 in land made a great difference in the battle. 00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:15.760 But I had read a lot of books on it. I researched 00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:19.559 the uniforms and the weapons as best I could. 00:41:20.239 --> 00:41:23.480 Of course, photographs of officers, most Union 00:41:23.480 --> 00:41:27.280 and Confederate, are easy to find on the internet, 00:41:27.280 --> 00:41:33.139 as we know. I imagine any union officer of any 00:41:33.139 --> 00:41:35.599 rank, just about you can find this picture, which 00:41:35.599 --> 00:41:41.219 is a great advantage. Wayne, I'm sorry to interrupt, 00:41:41.480 --> 00:41:45.159 but we're coming on our break right now, so let's 00:41:45.159 --> 00:41:50.659 just hang tight with that thought. I'm talking 00:41:50.659 --> 00:41:54.800 to artist writer Wayne Van Zandt about his graphic 00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:56.780 history of Gettysburg, and we're going to take 00:41:56.780 --> 00:42:00.659 a break right now. and stay with us. And we're 00:42:00.659 --> 00:42:03.059 back on Veterans Radio with this month's installment 00:42:03.059 --> 00:42:05.699 of At Ease with award -winning author Dwight 00:42:05.699 --> 00:42:08.039 Zimmerman. And Dwight and his guests are ready 00:42:08.039 --> 00:42:11.139 to resume their conversation. Dwight? Thank you 00:42:11.139 --> 00:42:14.079 Dale. I'm talking with writer -artist Wayne Van 00:42:14.079 --> 00:42:16.980 Sant about his graphic history of Gettysburg. 00:42:18.440 --> 00:42:23.639 And Wayne, before we continue on, I'd like you 00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:26.460 to tell our listeners where they can get this 00:42:26.460 --> 00:42:30.309 book. Okay, as I say, it's in Gettysburg, the 00:42:30.309 --> 00:42:32.510 graphic history, America's most famous Bible. 00:42:32.650 --> 00:42:34.909 It's published by Zenith Press. And you can get 00:42:34.909 --> 00:42:38.989 it through zenithpress .com or amazon .com or 00:42:38.989 --> 00:42:42.070 barnsandnoble .com and probably in the Barnes 00:42:42.070 --> 00:42:44.469 and Noble stores. I know some of my other books 00:42:44.469 --> 00:42:48.010 people have picked up there. So it's pretty well 00:42:48.010 --> 00:42:51.989 available. That's good. And by the way, congratulations 00:42:51.989 --> 00:42:55.429 on getting a nice quote from James McPherson. 00:42:56.289 --> 00:43:00.170 Yeah, that was a thrill. I would say. I felt 00:43:00.170 --> 00:43:03.690 the same myself when he said some good things 00:43:03.690 --> 00:43:07.590 about... Absolutely. Absolutely. You know you're 00:43:07.590 --> 00:43:11.190 on the right track. Yes, indeed. So tell us, 00:43:12.489 --> 00:43:14.230 as you were putting this story together, was 00:43:14.230 --> 00:43:18.920 there anything that you... discovered new about 00:43:18.920 --> 00:43:23.699 the battle? Just, you know, just, I guess, additional 00:43:23.699 --> 00:43:27.360 detail, not in the general, you know, about itself, 00:43:27.820 --> 00:43:31.460 but little things about the individual, some 00:43:31.460 --> 00:43:34.000 of the Union generals, some of their, you know, 00:43:34.599 --> 00:43:38.599 physical attributes and that sort of thing. But 00:43:38.599 --> 00:43:41.260 as I say, the one thing I have to do in something 00:43:41.260 --> 00:43:44.920 like that is not just research the story, the 00:43:44.920 --> 00:43:47.519 narrative itself. But I have to research what 00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:51.000 things look like, you know, try to get pictures 00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:52.800 of all the buildings that's going to be shown. 00:43:54.039 --> 00:43:56.440 Of course, the uniforms and equipment is absolutely 00:43:56.440 --> 00:44:00.739 important and the ground. The weather, you know, 00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:04.340 what kind of day it was. All of that is important 00:44:04.340 --> 00:44:07.760 in this kind of thing because you can maybe visualize 00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:11.519 that in your mind in just a written book. But 00:44:11.519 --> 00:44:15.199 I have to show the details all I can find anyway. 00:44:15.800 --> 00:44:21.860 Yes, and now, you only had 96 pages to work with 00:44:21.860 --> 00:44:25.260 here. Tell us about the challenge of condensing 00:44:25.260 --> 00:44:28.019 a paper panel. Well, that's true. I tell you, 00:44:28.480 --> 00:44:31.539 the people at Zeenoth Press have done such a 00:44:31.539 --> 00:44:36.239 great job of, well, I basically, I don't do the 00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:38.139 book like you would do like a comic book like 00:44:38.139 --> 00:44:40.260 you used to do with Marvel with full pages. I 00:44:40.260 --> 00:44:43.400 do individual panels. And then again, we'll throw 00:44:43.400 --> 00:44:46.599 maps in. And the people at Zenith have been so 00:44:46.599 --> 00:44:50.239 good at putting this together. When I finally 00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:53.019 get the finished product, I think, this is better 00:44:53.019 --> 00:44:57.699 than I thought it would look like. They really 00:44:57.699 --> 00:45:01.840 have done a wonderful job at that. My editor, 00:45:02.219 --> 00:45:05.480 Eric Gilge, has really been good at pulling things 00:45:05.480 --> 00:45:07.579 out and saying, work on this point here, work 00:45:07.579 --> 00:45:12.340 on this. As I say, you have to know when to stop. 00:45:12.760 --> 00:45:14.619 You have to know what to include and what not 00:45:14.619 --> 00:45:18.440 because you are limited in space. I could go 00:45:18.440 --> 00:45:22.179 on and do a 200 page book, but hey, that would 00:45:22.179 --> 00:45:28.059 be too much. Yes, indeed. I remember when we 00:45:28.059 --> 00:45:32.280 were doing our projects and they were 146 pages. 00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:36.360 Oh, gosh. Well, you did a great job on the writing 00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:39.559 on the hammer and anvil book because That was 00:45:39.559 --> 00:45:42.619 a very difficult book to do because there wasn't 00:45:42.619 --> 00:45:44.920 a whole lot of natural action as there would 00:45:44.920 --> 00:45:50.920 be in a battle. Sometimes people have an odd 00:45:50.920 --> 00:45:52.980 idea of what we do, particularly in something 00:45:52.980 --> 00:45:56.579 like this, because I've had people request some 00:45:56.579 --> 00:46:00.320 really odd subjects like the Liberty Bell, which 00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:02.420 is just more of an idea as it is than anything 00:46:02.420 --> 00:46:04.659 else, or the Federalist Papers. How could you 00:46:04.659 --> 00:46:07.519 do a graphic album on that? I guess you probably 00:46:07.519 --> 00:46:10.230 could. But it's a lot easier to have action, 00:46:10.630 --> 00:46:14.610 to have movement, that you can show. Oh, yeah. 00:46:15.389 --> 00:46:18.789 It wouldn't work. Yes. Well, let's talk about 00:46:18.789 --> 00:46:22.170 that, because it is a different approach to telling 00:46:22.170 --> 00:46:25.030 stories, especially since we're talking nonfiction 00:46:25.030 --> 00:46:31.190 here. Right. Since it's a graphic medium, there's 00:46:31.190 --> 00:46:35.409 nothing more boring than when the action is basically 00:46:36.059 --> 00:46:38.840 a bunch of people standing around giving speeches 00:46:38.840 --> 00:46:42.980 on a stage. That's right. You have to try to 00:46:42.980 --> 00:46:47.239 make it, have to make it interesting. And that's 00:46:47.239 --> 00:46:49.039 just, if you want people to read it, you're going 00:46:49.039 --> 00:46:50.380 to have to do that. And you're going to find 00:46:50.380 --> 00:46:52.940 some way to do it. And there are ways even to 00:46:52.940 --> 00:46:55.500 make things like that interesting. But it's always 00:46:55.500 --> 00:46:58.440 a lot better if you have like big armies charging 00:46:58.440 --> 00:47:00.840 each other and that sort of thing. It's a lot 00:47:00.840 --> 00:47:05.170 easier. Yes, indeed, but that was the challenge 00:47:05.170 --> 00:47:07.949 there of me trying to figure out, you know, in 00:47:07.949 --> 00:47:12.050 our Hammer and Anvil book. Right. Little scenes 00:47:12.050 --> 00:47:15.369 here and there and you're just staging. Oh, yes. 00:47:16.449 --> 00:47:20.909 That's true. So at least here you had a lot of 00:47:20.909 --> 00:47:23.889 action, a lot of movement, and then you could 00:47:23.889 --> 00:47:26.590 break things up by your close -ups with the generals 00:47:26.590 --> 00:47:31.159 or these little vignettes to pause. And you even 00:47:31.159 --> 00:47:33.480 in those because just the nature of what was 00:47:33.480 --> 00:47:37.699 going on it could be very dramatic. I mean Just 00:47:37.699 --> 00:47:40.639 sometimes sometimes the words take over I know 00:47:40.639 --> 00:47:42.119 particularly I remember think of the incident 00:47:42.119 --> 00:47:44.619 when James Longstreet tried to talk Robert E 00:47:44.619 --> 00:47:47.119 Lee out of you know out of attacking the cemetery 00:47:47.119 --> 00:47:51.340 Ridge And it just almost the stillness of that 00:47:51.340 --> 00:47:54.760 in the middle of all this action To me was very 00:47:54.760 --> 00:48:01.420 dramatic Yeah, yeah I was very impressed with 00:48:01.420 --> 00:48:03.699 the whole package that you produced here, because 00:48:03.699 --> 00:48:06.380 you also did the coloring too, correct? Oh, yes. 00:48:07.099 --> 00:48:10.800 Yes, I pretty much do the research, the writing 00:48:10.800 --> 00:48:14.719 and the illustration and color. And as I say, 00:48:15.219 --> 00:48:17.579 the Zenith has been a great publisher. We've 00:48:17.579 --> 00:48:19.260 already come out with a Normandy book that came 00:48:19.260 --> 00:48:24.139 out last summer. We've got a lot of things coming 00:48:24.139 --> 00:48:27.909 out. They've been very happy with this. this 00:48:27.909 --> 00:48:31.329 media, and we are doing really good things. I'm 00:48:31.329 --> 00:48:34.510 working on a book about the Red Baron right now, 00:48:34.909 --> 00:48:36.809 and I'm going to be doing one on the Battle of 00:48:36.809 --> 00:48:40.190 the Bulge, but we have coming out late summer, 00:48:40.190 --> 00:48:43.050 I believe it is, a book called Grant vs. Lee 00:48:43.050 --> 00:48:46.769 about the last year of the war in Virginia, and 00:48:46.769 --> 00:48:50.409 also a book called Bombing Nazi Germany about 00:48:50.409 --> 00:48:53.550 the bomber campaign against Germany. They're 00:48:53.550 --> 00:48:55.750 bringing in other artists and writers, I understand, 00:48:55.869 --> 00:48:58.360 to do some of these projects too. Okay, well 00:48:58.360 --> 00:49:02.199 Wayne we're coming up at the close here and so 00:49:02.199 --> 00:49:05.179 I would like you to again tell our listeners 00:49:05.179 --> 00:49:08.039 where they can get your you know fine graphic 00:49:08.039 --> 00:49:10.599 history of Gettysburg. This is writer artist 00:49:10.599 --> 00:49:14.480 Wayne Van Zandt. Yes, you can get it at Amazon 00:49:14.480 --> 00:49:19.420 .com or Zenithpress .com or Barnesandnoble .com. 00:49:19.539 --> 00:49:24.309 I can't let him go away yet. No, we can't let 00:49:24.309 --> 00:49:26.250 him go away. We've got a couple of minutes. This 00:49:26.250 --> 00:49:30.829 sounds to me like, Wayne, this is Dale. This 00:49:30.829 --> 00:49:34.269 sounds like those old classic illustrated comics 00:49:34.269 --> 00:49:39.179 that got me through English Lit. But, you know, 00:49:39.579 --> 00:49:41.719 what is the audience for this? It seems very 00:49:41.719 --> 00:49:44.300 appropriate for high school and college kids, 00:49:44.340 --> 00:49:46.179 and of course for adults too, I'm sure. Well, 00:49:46.280 --> 00:49:49.280 yeah, I don't try to write down to anybody at 00:49:49.280 --> 00:49:53.119 all. I just tell the story as best I can. But 00:49:53.119 --> 00:49:55.420 a lot of schools have been used, and I know there's 00:49:55.420 --> 00:49:57.539 been a college in southern Florida that used 00:49:57.539 --> 00:50:00.659 our Vietnam book and a course. And there's a 00:50:00.659 --> 00:50:04.900 teacher in New Jersey that over the years has 00:50:04.900 --> 00:50:07.019 bought a lot of the books from me that I do. 00:50:07.300 --> 00:50:09.300 I have a Korean War book I did several years 00:50:09.300 --> 00:50:11.519 ago. He has bought a number of those for his 00:50:11.519 --> 00:50:14.139 classes, and he's getting Gettysburg, and he's 00:50:14.139 --> 00:50:17.460 got Normandy, and he's using these in his classes. 00:50:17.739 --> 00:50:22.239 And I think history can be very dry to some people. 00:50:22.900 --> 00:50:25.739 I've always loved it. I've always loved reading 00:50:25.739 --> 00:50:29.000 history. But you have to excite some people a 00:50:29.000 --> 00:50:30.639 little bit more about it. This might be the way 00:50:30.639 --> 00:50:33.030 to do it. or at least make it a little bit more 00:50:33.030 --> 00:50:38.750 accessible to them. I think so. Your guys' illustrations 00:50:38.750 --> 00:50:40.489 in all of your books that you've done have just 00:50:40.489 --> 00:50:44.230 been so fascinating that they draw you in so 00:50:44.230 --> 00:50:47.969 that you want to know more. After reading one 00:50:47.969 --> 00:50:49.949 of your books, if you need more details you can 00:50:49.949 --> 00:50:52.269 always go and get that, but at least you get 00:50:52.269 --> 00:50:54.809 some sort of idea of what was going on because 00:50:54.809 --> 00:50:57.829 unfortunately today many of our kids are not 00:50:57.829 --> 00:51:01.489 getting these stories. Well, there's so little 00:51:01.489 --> 00:51:04.630 time to teach. And from what Dwight was saying 00:51:04.630 --> 00:51:07.889 earlier, the time he sits in writing these, I 00:51:07.889 --> 00:51:10.949 spent a lot of hours on these things. But it's 00:51:10.949 --> 00:51:13.570 my passion. It's something I love to do. And 00:51:13.570 --> 00:51:17.130 I work hard at it every day. I try to get better. 00:51:18.309 --> 00:51:20.309 I try to get better at my writing. I try to get 00:51:20.309 --> 00:51:23.889 better at my drawing. So that's something to 00:51:23.889 --> 00:51:28.210 look forward to. Before you go, Wayne, you served 00:51:28.210 --> 00:51:30.929 in the Navy, correct? Yes, I was in the Navy 00:51:30.929 --> 00:51:36.130 in the late 60s and the early 70s. I guess you 00:51:36.130 --> 00:51:38.150 kind of wonder, how does this affect what I do? 00:51:38.550 --> 00:51:40.489 Of course, I loved history before then, of course. 00:51:40.889 --> 00:51:43.710 But I think being in the military, even in the 00:51:43.710 --> 00:51:46.309 Navy at that time, gave you a little bit of idea 00:51:46.309 --> 00:51:50.349 of military life and the general idea many times 00:51:50.349 --> 00:51:52.329 that people that are there don't want to be there. 00:51:54.139 --> 00:51:58.380 I think it gave me a little bit more of an understanding 00:51:58.380 --> 00:52:03.500 of what military life was like. I think you've 00:52:03.500 --> 00:52:06.179 done a great job. Well, thank you. I appreciate 00:52:06.179 --> 00:52:08.719 that. As a veteran and a teacher, I just love 00:52:08.719 --> 00:52:10.440 your books and I like to use them myself, so 00:52:10.440 --> 00:52:12.539 it's a great thing. Thank you. Well, thank you 00:52:12.539 --> 00:52:15.599 very much. So we've been talking with Wayne Van 00:52:15.599 --> 00:52:19.280 Zandt about his wonderful book, The Graphic History 00:52:19.280 --> 00:52:21.869 of the Battle of Gettysburg. Wayne, good luck 00:52:21.869 --> 00:52:24.869 on it and future projects and I hope that you 00:52:24.869 --> 00:52:27.989 and I can work again sometime in the near future. 00:52:28.829 --> 00:52:32.630 I have no doubt that we will. Okay Dwight, well 00:52:32.630 --> 00:52:35.429 we do have a winner for your book and that is 00:52:35.429 --> 00:52:38.590 our good friend Vance who called in and said, 00:52:38.829 --> 00:52:42.110 false, it's the Navy that designed the Medal 00:52:42.110 --> 00:52:45.030 of Honor originally and that is true so we got 00:52:45.030 --> 00:52:47.710 to get a copy of your book out to Vance McCrum. 00:52:48.010 --> 00:52:51.349 Oh, great. Congratulations, Vance. The fascinating 00:52:51.349 --> 00:52:55.309 thing, it was a member of the Army that actually 00:52:55.309 --> 00:53:00.289 came up with the idea, but the general who was 00:53:00.289 --> 00:53:03.110 the head of the Army, Winfield Scott, he didn't 00:53:03.110 --> 00:53:06.929 like the idea, so he shot it down, but the secretary 00:53:06.929 --> 00:53:13.730 of the Navy loved the idea, so he said, well, 00:53:13.989 --> 00:53:16.260 the Army doesn't want it, we'll do it. All right, 00:53:16.260 --> 00:53:18.199 Dwight, well thank you again for another great 00:53:18.199 --> 00:53:20.659 installment of At Ease, and we're looking forward 00:53:20.659 --> 00:53:23.199 to another year of you bringing on these most 00:53:23.199 --> 00:53:26.320 amazing authors in the history of military writing. 00:53:26.519 --> 00:53:30.920 Thank you, Dwight, very much. And until next 00:53:30.920 --> 00:53:46.519 week, you are dismissed. Veterans Radio is a 00:53:46.519 --> 00:53:47.820 production of Veterans Radio.