From the studios of Ave Maria Radio in Ann Arbor,
this is Veterans Radio. And now, here's your
host, Dale Cronberg. And good morning America
and welcome to Veterans Radio. What an exciting
morning we've had here at WDEO and we would like
to first start off and apologize for being a
little late getting on the air but somebody else
I guess got into the control room and was who
knows what was happening at the time but it was
it's been an adventure. It's been an adventure
that's for sure yes it's live radio so we're
gonna have to kind of flip a couple of things
around today I want to make sure to let you know
that we are going to be talking with Rob Du Bois
about his book, an entirely powerful piece, and
Rob is in the studio with us, and I'm going to
be bringing him on in just a little bit. And
hopefully we can get ahold of our other guest,
Captain Coffee, Captain Gerald Coffee, who was
a prisoner of war in Vietnam, and he is out in
Hawaii, and we're having trouble waking him up
this morning, which is understandable, considering
it's three o 'clock in the morning there. But
I do also want to talk a little bit about the
program we did last week with Father Emil Capon.
And as we told you last week, and for those of
you that didn't get a chance to listen, you can
go to our archives, veteransradio .net and click
onto the archives and you'll be able to hear
the whole story about Father Capon. And Bob Gould
is here in the studio with me. He produced the
program last week. And I want to just talk about
this briefly. Go ahead, fire away. Well, I got
this. I was inspired all week. No, it was amazing.
I agree with you. The more I talk to these men
and women who have served overseas, the more
I realize how important our missions were. Whatever
time period we were in the service, it really
does come back and it's so important that we
remember the lessons that we learned and that
we continue on taking care of our fellow human
beings. Amen to that. I just want to remind people
that President Obama awarded Medal of Honor to
Korean War Hero Father Emile Kapan on, I think
this was on the 12th, or the 11th it was, I'm
sorry, just last week. As I mentioned before,
we talked about this inspiring story and I wanted
to read a little bit from the citation as soon
as I can find it. Hold on here. This is, as I
said, live radio. Here we go. Come on. Where
did it go? Oh, here we are. Chaplain Emile Capon
distinguished himself by acts of gallantry and
intrepidity above and beyond the call of duty
while serving with the 3rd Battalion, 8th Cavalry
Regiment, 1st Cav Division during combat operations
against an armed enemy at Usan, Korea from November
1st to 2nd, 1950. On November 1st, as Chinese
Communist forces viciously attacked friendly
elements, Chaplain Kapan calmly walked through
withering enemy fire in order to provide comfort
and medical aid to his comrades and rescue friendly
wounded from no man's land. Though the Americans
successfully repelled the assault, they found
themselves surrounded by the enemy. Facing annihilation,
the able -bodied men were ordered to evacuate.
However, Chaplain Kapan, fully aware of his certain
capture, elected to stay behind with the wounded.
After the enemy succeeded in breaking through
the defense in the early morning hours of November
2nd, Chaplain Kapan continually made rounds as
hand -to -hand combat ensued. As Chinese Communist
forces approached the American position, Chaplain
Kapan noticed an injured Chinese officer amongst
the wounded and convinced him to negotiate the
safe surrender of the American forces. Shortly
after his capture, Chaplain Capon, with complete
disregard for his personal safety and unwavering
resolve, bravely pushed aside an enemy soldier
preparing to execute Sergeant First Class Herbert
Miller. Not only did Chaplain Capon's gallantry
save the life of Sergeant Miller, but also his
unparalleled courage and leadership inspired
all those present, including those who might
have otherwise fled in panic to remain and fight
the enemy until captured. Chaplain Capon's extraordinary
heroism and selflessness above and beyond the
call of duty are in keeping with the highest
traditions of military service and reflect great
credit upon himself, the 3rd Battalion, 8th Cavalry
Regiment, 1st Cavalry Division, and the United
States Army. And receiving the Medal of Honor
on behalf of his uncle was his nephew, Ray Capon.
You know, he only survived six months. That was
it. That's how much sacrifice he made and his
rations and water and his own comfort. It's fascinating
when you look at the strength of these people
that were POWs and I'm hoping that we can reconnect
with Captain Coffee because his story of capture
in North Vietnam is very similar. the determination
to stay alive, for one thing, the reestablishment
of their faith, not only in... Did you read the
book? Oh, absolutely. Was there a chaplain there?
No, they took care of themselves. They had to
take care of themselves, and they were so isolated
from each other, much unlike Chaplain Capone.
They were separated, but they came up with this
tap system that you might have heard of where
it was... kind of a abbreviated Morris code system
so that the bad guys couldn't figure out what
they were doing and they were able to communicate
throughout the compound with each other either
by tapping on the wall or they would cough in
a certain way and people would, it's an amazing
story and I'm hoping that we can get him on before
the end of the program today. Well that is a
very interesting segue as I like to say in the
business. It is from last week to this week.
We're not done with this segue. We're not done
with this segue because joining us in the studio
right now is our guest for this morning, and
this is Rob DuBois. Rob has written an amazing
book in its own right called Powerful Peace.
Rob, I'm going to let you tell us a little bit
about yourself. He is a former Navy SEAL. He
has been around the world on missions that he
can't tell us about more than likely. And we're
going to ask him to share the mission of his
book and his mission currently. And so Rob Du
Bois, welcome to Veterans Radio. Thank you, Dale.
It's great to be on. It's been kind of a hectic
morning, so we're going to just kind of just
jump right into it. So tell me a little bit about
your military background. Well, as many readers
know, I'm a hybrid. I spent 10 years in the Navy
doing various works with various agencies as
a Russian SME before, a subject matter expert
before I picked up the Navy SEAL career. I went
to Bud's halfway through my career and became
a SEAL. I went to SDV Team 1 in Hawaii for seven
years, and I spent most of those years in special
reconnaissance, which means sneaking and peeping.
Hiding under bushes and watching people do stuff,
basically, is our mission. Of course, a lot of
time in the SDV or the Seal Delivery Vehicle,
our free -flooding mini -submarine, we float
around underwater and go places in. Really? Then
I retired after three years in DC as a virtual
terrorist, running Red Cell work, emulating the
enemy around the world to give our commanders
better insights on what their vulnerabilities
were so they could stop real terrorists from
getting in. But you were in Iraq. No, you know,
where were you prior to 9 -eleven? Well, that's
a very interesting story because on 9 -eleven
I was teaching Arab seals how to kill terrorists
in their country in the Middle East It was a
Gulf country and we were actually on the ground
with the guys for a few weeks On September 11th,
we watched it happen live via satellite feed.
Where we were, of course, it was the evening
on that Tuesday, September 11th. And so 10 Arab
seals and 10 American seals sat around in a horseshoe
shape watching the satellite feed as almost 20
Arab terrorists murdered 3 ,000 people. What
was that like? Because in your first chapter
in your book, you talk about the emotional reality
of sitting there with these You know Middle Eastern
Seals now and and watching it together One section
of the book is called surreal and so real and
that's we chose that Deliberately because it
was a surreal experience Absolutely to watch
with allies and friends and guys who would have
died beside me to stop what we were watching
together was a unique and invaluable experience
for me personally to be able to take my message
forward with Powerful Peace over the years. It's
a real stake in the ground, if you will, to base
what I'm trying to talk about with applying smart
power, with the fact that we cannot simply approach
every problem with the same tool that smart power,
hard and soft power, that we use coercion and
persuasion and attraction in equal and inappropriate
amounts based on the situation, whether it's
interpersonal with your family or international
with other nations and other populations in the
sense of, you know, Al -Qaeda is not a state
-run organization. It has state support in some
cases. But in fact, what I, you know, I used
that story in the front of the book, the first
chapter is called Hate, and we talk about watching
9 -11 happen live, because I want my readers
and I want... many other folks who have heard
the message around the world different ways to
understand that, you know, a lot of my Arab and
Muslim friends understand, of course, that Arabs
and Muslims are not terrorists. Terrorists sometimes
call themselves Muslims. There's a very big difference.
The same thing is true with Catholic terrorists
or Jewish terrorists or atheist terrorists. And
so what I want to convey with the idea about
hate and talking about 9 -11 is surreal and so
real. is that we are humans first and it depends
on where we come from and what we see as far
as what we believe and choose to do. Well I'm
talking with Rob DuBois who is the author of
a new book entitled, I don't know how new it
is, but it's a book entitled Powerful Peace and
if you have a question for Rob that you'd like
to get in on the conversation give us a call
here at Veterans Radio that's 877 -573 -7825.
877 -573 -7825. So, what motivated you to write
Powerful Peace? As a matter of fact, I began
writing a blog called Powerful Peace. It's still,
of course, up and running and is one of the cornerstones
of our Seal of Peace consulting of today. I began
writing a blog called Powerful Peace in 2008
from Baghdad, I think it was. And I wanted to
get the idea out to follow a column I'd been
doing called, for goodness sake, play on words
for an editor out of my hometown around DC. I
was writing from Iraq for a few months on this
column called For Goodness Sake because what
my editor, Rob, who also is the editor of Powerful
Peace, and I perceived, what he understood from
my experience in talking to him in our hometown
there was that... Again, back to the theme of
humans are humans first and cultural layers have
a lot to do with where we end up and what we
choose to do. And we ourselves, of course, you
know, parents tell their kids, you are who you
hang out with, so I'm going to watch who you're
hanging out with. I don't want you to absorb
the behaviors of your friends who are, you know,
shoplifting, for example, or whatever the mischief
may be they're up to. The fact is the same thing
is true in adult. relationships and in fact internationally
we have the way who we hang out with makes a
big influence. Look at Syria today. Syria is
a disaster we're talking about before the show.
It's a terrible mess and it has a lot to do with
who it's been hanging out with over the years
as far as where Syria is choosing to go these
days in terms of abusing, viciously abusing civilian
lives. I had written a piece back in the mid
-2000s called Understanding for a U .S. Agency,
and the point of understanding was very much
like the smart power concepts of Joe Nye, who
is from Harvard and first wrote about soft power
in 1990, or persuasion and attraction, the same
form of power that attracted the Japanese to
pick up baseball and poodle skirts after the
war. It was never forced on them. It was simply
a matter of an appealing cultural aspect of American
life. The same thing is true in our own behavior,
which is why I emphasize so strongly personal
accountability. How I choose to walk my walk
daily is going to be a message that's much louder
than any number of words I spout to people over
the days. So when I learned about smart power,
and I realized I've been writing about smart
power, there was an intersection. And so I started
talking about Powerful Peace at the blog, and
it grew up over several years. And in fact, a
lot of the content of Powerful Peace is in the
book today. And so what would you say is the
main message of Powerful Peace? I've been trying
to capture that. There's a way that we... One,
in fact, this is fun for your listeners. You
actually get to see Powerful Peace evolving before
your eyes. I'm starting to use an acronym of
BREAD to keep an idea, to keep something in mind,
a stake in the ground if you will mentally for
folks to understand what it's about. But what
I'm advocating in Powerful Peace is the acronym
of BREAD which starts with balance. Balance is
ultimately the best way for any individual to
make a difference in the world in an effective
way because if we balance our body, mind, heart
and soul, the four aspects of human life as I'm
describing it, we become more effective citizens,
more effective family members. If we're not imbalanced
as a bodybuilder who doesn't care anything about
anybody else's cares, or an emotional superpower
who cares nothing about developing his mind,
or a spiritual guru who absolutely has no interest
in the worldly things around him, those imbalanced
characters are not very useful to society. So
we start with balance and respect. is key. Respect
is one of the biggest themes in Powerful Peace.
If we have time during the program, I'll actually...
pull an excerpt out of the book about respect
at Abu Ghraib, one of my lessons I picked up
at Abu Ghraib prison. Empathy is key. Empathy
is the point of being in relationship with other
people in my personal opinion. It doesn't mean
being touchy -feely. It doesn't mean being a
Casper milk toast who's so wringing his hand
at every person's distress, but rather understanding
where individuals are coming from is key to being
functional with them, even if I'm trying to kill
them. It doesn't matter that you know powerful
peace is not about loving everybody into a state
of submission There are guys like we talked about
in every presentation who may be willing would
would be willing to walk into this studio right
now and push a plunger on a Lever in their hand
to blow themselves up to kill the three of us
That would happen right now if a guy probably
somebody listening to this right now who would
like to have access to us could do so, he would
do so. So in that case, the only option for an
armed individual would be to shoot the guy in
the face. You cannot stop a person like that
with loving and talking and kumbaya. There are
cases for hard power, for ultimate kinetic options.
I advocate that all the time and I advocate for
a ruthless restraint. When we have the capacity
to use violence to stop... a worse violence,
then we have an obligation to use it. We also
therefore have an obligation to develop that
capacity, which is why I'm an expert marksman
and I'm a black belt and other ways I can break
people, but I choose not to use that power and
that makes me more powerful in society because
if it's understood that I can, but I choose not
to, then there's a much greater respect evident.
So that was a big diet drive on empathy in the
destructive perspective, but obviously empathy
gives people what Stephen Covey, Seven Habits
of Highly Effective People, Stephen Covey, talked
about as being psychological air. When I listen
to you with the intent to understand what you're
saying, you don't feel rushed, you don't feel
defensive, you don't feel like you have to force
what you want to get across into my head because
I'm hearing it deliberately. That empathy makes
me much more effective with other people. Accountability
is the A of bread. Accountability is where we
each responsibly say, you know what, I did do
that thing. That was wrong. That was a messed
up choice on my part, and I'm sorry for doing
it. You know, standard, much less practice than
it should be in society, in my opinion, internationally
as well. America is not a perfect country in
the sense that we've never made a mistake. just
like I am not a perfect person in the sense that
I've never made a mistake. In fact, I outdo myself
on mistakes every day, I think. I'm a very flawed,
very human person, but... I've learned through
my own painful experience that when I choose
to be accountable for said mistakes when I choose
to be responsible and Give people the respect
of apologizing or acknowledge my wrongdoing It
tends to strengthen relationships and not damage
them further which denial does and finally dignity
I talk about dignity and respect throughout the
book especially in two solid chapters describing
dignity in one and respect in the other and dignity
is something that every human being requires
and I've seen Indignation I've seen people being
treated without dignity in every nation So it's
close to respect but respect in my opinion is
much more a way of how we behave like I talked
about at Abu Ghraib I was taught a lesson in
that in real time by one of the guards dealing
with the prisoners and in fact respect is a way
I behave Every minute of my day when I'm speaking
to somebody I like or don't like it doesn't mean
only a feeling like I'm in love with somebody
It's a feeling like it's a sense of doing what
you choose to do respectfully We're going to
take a break here since our calendar clock is
off a little bit, but we are going to take a
break. We're going to be playing our Medal of
Honor and then going through that. We'll be coming
back with Rob Du Bois. We're going to talk about
that experiences that you gained from the Abu
Ghraib. You're listening to Veterans Radio. We'll
be right back after this. And we're back on Veterans
Radio and we're trying to play a little Anchors
Away there for our guest, Navy SEAL Robert Du
Bois, who has written a book. a powerful book,
pardon the pun, entitled Powerful Peace. And
we were just talking about some of the issues
that you touched on, Rob, are really important.
By the way, if you want to get in on this conversation,
you can give us a call here at 877 -573 -7825.
877 -573 -7825. And we're talking about how Rob's
military experience has kind of morphed into
this I can't even describe it really except that
instead of using our power of might, let's use
the power of our minds and figure out how that
we can get along with people without having to
necessarily shoot them all the time. While ensuring
that we maintain the capacity to shoot, that's
the key. It's a balanced approach and it's based
on the fact that we can use force if we need
to because nothing invites violence like weakness.
That's the target. That's exactly what the brute
is looking for. This kind of goes all the way
back to Teddy Roosevelt and sending the fleet
around the world and carrying the big stick,
but we're not going to use this stick unless
it's absolutely positively necessary. Don't think
that you can get away with stuff. And that's
a great example when speaking of segues. What
a perfect example of where we're going with powerful
peace compared to the long -standing philosophy
of walking softly and carrying a big stick. Walking
softly in the world is something that I believe
that is hard for some nations with dominant power
to do. I don't mean that dominant nations like
America are abusive necessarily. I mean, there
are nations that are abusive like Saddam Hussein.
We talked about this right here in the book throughout.
The book is the years I spent in Iraq. However,
it is possible for a dominant power in a household
or on the planet to be less than completely mindful
of that person or nation's impact on others.
We hear that a lot from our if you will, detractors
around the world who say America deserved 9 -11
in some cases. The most horrible thing that we
can hear is those who thought it was a proper
comeuppance, a black eye on the great power that
was ignorant of the ugly Americans, ignorant
about the needs of the world. So the perspectives
we have around the world are, again, where what
we believe and what we choose to do are driven
by what we have observed, our experiences. So
I do, if you will, go there. on the Israel -Palestine
issue. In the front of the book I talk about
that. I don't say I'm for X or Y, because I'm
not. I'm for the children in Palestine and Israel
being safe. That's what I'm for. I'm for having
families not be torn apart on either side by
any reason. I'm for letting people find the way
to get to the common ground, find ways to dialogue
in respectful discourse with, in some cases,
ruthless restraint of the power they know they
have behind them, but choose not to use it. So
balancing powers, applying smart power, using
a full range of soft to hard power, persuasion
to coercion, that is all based on being humble
and having empathy and understanding what the
needs are and what the perceptions are. Having
done a lot of civil affairs support around the
world, I've seen... you know, where we, we the
superpower, if it was the coalition of the Americans
in isolation, have made decisions and made choices
that were with the greatest of intentions, which
some say the road to hell is paved with. We,
for example, a great example of that is a well
that was dug in Afghanistan, which was built
by the Americans, cost a certain amount of money
and time to build right, and it was with the
intention because the ladies had to walk something
like five miles to get water every single day.
They'd go to the river and then come back with
the water. And we in our isolation decided it
was a better thing for the ladies in the society.
And of course, we're about empowering women having
equal rights between the genders is a huge part
of having stability in any society. Having anybody
be degraded or dominated by race or religion
or gender is undermining to the success of that
society. So what we try to do is support. the
women in a society where possible and so the
well was built and when the builders came back
sometime later they found it kicked in and they
thought well how outrageous you know the Taliban
were here and they destroyed this well whatever
the assumptions were they dug a little deeper
and found out the ladies destroyed the well themselves
because the ladies had no opportunity to talk
to other ladies except for the one or two hour
walk around trip to come with water. Every day
they went to get the water and came back. Now
this is something that your standard WASP guy
military person would not comprehend. It was
a very important part of their life was to be
able to walk to get the water, to get away from
the men for a few hours, and to do that part
of their day. And so that was a great example
of the best of intentions that were not fully
comprehended. The empathy was not there, absolutely.
Well, we're learning slowly but surely that our
way is not necessarily the right way. It's like
people talking about, well, you know, they need
to have a democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan that
looks like ours. And we know it'll never look
like ours. Right. Because, I mean, we're such
an aberration when it comes to a democracy. When
you think about all of the different ethnic groups
that make up America and how we somehow get along,
I don't know. But, you know, and then we look
at the rest of the world and the guy across the
street doesn't like the guy on the other side
of the street because he wears white and one
wears blue or something and that's going to go
on forever. We just can't fathom that. I think,
you know, I liked what you were mentioning before
about the respect and the empathy and so forth
and there was a speech I saw once and this guy
was talking about with just a little understanding,
just a little caring little empathy We could
get along a lot better right instead of judging
people based on our own idea of what the world
should be like Maybe we could you know, maybe
things could get a little bit quieter in the
world and maybe we could actually decide that
okay we are going to take care of some other
people who don't have the advantages that we
do and you know 800 years of authoritarian control.
I mean, even just coming out of authoritarian
control must be frightening. It begins in the
home, too, like so much good. If people come
out of broken homes, come out of unstable homes,
if they're broken people, they don't have the
ability. to build stable societies and stable
nations and stable international relations. We
who are broken simply can repeat what we know.
That's a simple fact about human upbringing.
So where we can provide stability for homes,
for families, for these villages or cities, wherever
we're dealing with nation building. Like you
said, we can't build an American -style democracy.
We can... facilitate the general human desire
for representative democracy, whatever form that
may take. And that's one of the stomping points
in Powerful Peace, is to say that it is absurd.
We have been criticized for American arrogance.
Well, one of the reasons that I support the idea
that some have considered us arrogant, based
on, again, what they perceive compared to what
we perceive as we're projecting, is that same
thing about building a well where we don't understand
what the purpose is, what the focal purpose is,
and we do the same thing at a higher level nationally,
and we may say that it would be good for Iraq
to have Burger Kings and McDonald's, and it would
be great, there are of course Burger Kings and
McDonald's, but it would be great for them to
have what we have, and that is a simple... error
on thinking. Iraqi culture is thousands of years
old. Ours is a couple of centuries. Why in the
world would we be so presumptuous as to say that
Iraq should look like America? And most Americans
don't say that. Most Americans say we'd like
to see a stable Iraq that has Iraqi values at
its core, that appreciates human worth and dignity,
and that is Iraq. It's a healthier rock, and
that's by God's grace, but that's what I'm going
to help develop as we keep fighting for this,
you know, looking at each nation, each population
having its chance to develop into its fullest,
best, healthy self. Okay. I've only got two points
I want to touch on here. Number one, you mentioned
earlier that you wanted to talk about the respect
issue at Abu Ghraib, and so you have a segment
in the book that you want to read to us. Absolutely.
I visited Abu Ghraib back in 2004, 2005. Following
the scandal, which was not my fault. I'd like
to advocate that right away. I was on a counter
-terrorism, anti -terrorism assessment where
I would go and play a terrorist. I would attack
U .S. bases for the purpose of finding vulnerabilities
that the commander could build up against the
actual existing vulnerabilities. We had a number
of... number of successful predictions if you
will of scenarios that that would that might
develop based on the existing vulnerabilities
and Most of them were stopped because of the
presence of my team having gone there and said
this is what we see We're looking at it like
terrorists. We don't want you getting attacked
by uncertainty terrorists effectively and here's
what we recommend you do and it was done many
times on one of these visits I was talking to
a a guard at Abu Ghraib And I like to indict
myself first, whenever I have a chance, back
to the accountability of breath. If we have a
chance to identify something that we're not doing
right, it's good for other people to hear it
because it helps them be more honest about their
own limitations. So swaggering in my Kami uniform,
rifle and trident, that's the seal insignia on
our chest. I'd been looking out over the yard
and closed in triple -strand concertina wire
while we talked and staring at the detainees
with self -righteous, angry suspicion. Which
one had most recently killed one of my own friends?
I asked this guard how he could stand to deal
with these, in my words, scumbags. I'd just try
to treat them all with respect, he replied. Some
of these men were detained for being in the wrong
place at the wrong time. They're innocent, but
it'll take us several months to confirm that
and return them to their families. He paused.
It's hard here for a woman to try to run the
house without her husband. I deflated a little.
He continued, some are absolutely guilty. That
guy over there, he pointed to a smallest, quiet,
ordinary -looking individual, walking alone in
a dystocia robe, killed two Americans in an ambush
a few days ago. He's a hard case and nobody else
can work with him. But he's willing to talk with
me and usually does what I ask. I think it's
because I act respectfully toward him. I deflated
the rest of the way. anecdote from my personal
life and my personal correction by circumstance
by being shown a better way is one of the many
infinite number of events that have occurred
in my life that have taught me to behave respectfully
and humbly and openly and accountable with accountability
whenever possible now again as I said I feel
every single day but these are these are crucial
lessons I've learned I'm trying to share with
everyone. This is an issue I want to talk about.
We're going to take one more break right now
to talk a little bit about the Marine Scholars
and then we'll be back. We're talking with Rob
Du Bois. His book is Powerful Peace. And again,
if you want to get in on the conversation, we're
coming up toward the top of the hour already.
It's 877 -573 -7825. We'll be right back after
this message. You're listening to Veterans Radio.
We're back on Veterans Radio and we're talking
with Rob Du Bois whose book is entitled Powerful
Peace. can find on Amazon and probably a number
of other places. But I think it's really important
for you to pay attention to what we're talking
about today. And I think it's fascinating when
we think about the respect that Rob is talking
about with regards to other human beings. And
this is kind of a theme that I find running through
many of the books that we talk about here on
Veterans Radio with veterans and what they have
learned from their experience. And I know that
right now, and we've got about 10 minutes to
go, I wanted to tell you, what are you doing
right now? What are you doing in Michigan today?
Well, that's a great question. What is it being
on our program, of course? Believe it or not,
I'm doing almost everything. I've been in consult
with, I came up to Michigan initially for a conference
on faith and conflict. We did over at Henry Ford,
the university downtown in Detroit. I was invited
there by a friend's wife who was coordinating
this faith and conflict conference. When I got
there, we began talking to law enforcement and
youth and the local Islamic center in Dearborn,
which of course is the, you know, well -known
for, I won't say it's the... primary Muslim population
in the United States, but I believe it is. It's
the largest concentration of Muslims, I think,
in the country. So I met the Imam there, who's
well -renowned. He was a fellow speaker at the
conference. We had a chance to talk, and he introduced
me to his director. So I'll be connecting over
at the Islamic Center when we can get the right
venue, just to connect, because a lot of the
book talks about my work with Muslims, of course.
It's not a Muslim -centric book, it's not an
anti -Muslim book, it's a simple fact that I
have done a lot of work in a lot of countries
that were Muslim predominant and I have been
able to, if you will, represent that population
among people who are more like me than I am like
them, than I am like the folks I've worked with.
So that extended into a conversation, a really
good engagement with the commanding officer of
a local very tough precinct in Detroit. We'll
be working together and going forward on youth
initiatives, trying to help out with kids, trying
to help... You know, the kids in Detroit, it's
a very, very difficult situation right now. The
city is in a very hard place economically. I
wrote a piece about that recently when I got
to experience it for a week or so, and I began
to live and breathe. My host, my sponsor, Kerry,
he's a mentor for me, and he's a guy who lives
downtown in one of the worst places. He chose
to move downtown into one of the harder areas.
so that he could be, as an activist, active.
Now, this is another WASP like me, a guy who
doesn't have to live there, but chooses to. So
we have to take all the appropriate precautions
for living in a neighborhood like that. And down
the street from there was a youth center. Got
to do an appearance there the other day. People
can go to PowerfulBeast .net and see the blog.
Click at the top to see the blog. You'll see
the article that I wrote about that event. The
kids came swarming, kids of all colors, all backgrounds,
from this very difficult area to grow up. I went
and talked to him about the idea. Of course,
at a children's level, 8 to 12 year old level,
about powerful peace, about dignity, respect,
hope, promise, what they can look forward to,
their potential, because I don't want kids to
feel like they're stuck where they've always
been is where they're always will be. And it's
not possible to know otherwise unless you're
told by somebody. Right, and somebody has to
tell you those things. And it's not like I always
want to go back 50 years to the ideal. world
of the 1950s, which we know were not as idyllic
as we thought they were. The marketing campaign
was idyllic. But there are some things that we
have to continually teach our children and other
people that they seem to have forgotten. It was
funny last night when I was perusing your book
as best as I could. I went right back to the
Boy Scouts. And I said, oh, yeah, I got to be
trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous,
kind, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.
Right. And I said, now, that's not a bad motto
to follow. If we could all just do that and respect
each other, because we come from so many diverse
backgrounds. Really, the only thing we've got
going for us is that we're all able to live in
a unified country somehow without violence, excessive
violence all over the place, one group against
another. And I think that that's something that
we have to keep America to be aware of, that
you should be proud and just so excited by this
experiment that's been going on for over 200
years that it's still working. And that with
a little more effort on our parts, that we can
help these children, we can help them rise up
out of this poverty. You got it if they just
had some semblance of respect and dignity as
you mentioned earlier I think and I know that
your book is full of these These yeah, it's all
stories. We use a storytelling method and this
is what we have to do with America's youth We
have to be welcoming to all of these different
cultures that are out there Maybe make a little
more effort to find out what they're about, right?
Because really everybody in the world really
only wants a couple of things and that's safety
for their family a roof over their head and Yes.
And to be left alone. Beyond that, if you've
got those basics, there's very little reason
to rise up and squawk and cause a crisis. In
fact, grievance is the underlying... component
of any insurgency or terrorist activity. What
I argue is that grievances are perceived. I think
any of us can tell that. You know, you walk into
the office and, you know, Bob and Dale are talking
and somebody had a bad night, didn't sleep well.
Right. Well, then he might be a little surly
and the other person can choose to interpret
that one of many ways. One can be, that guy's
a real jerk. But because you have a long -standing
relationship, because relationship is the foundation
of understanding, you know, you probably give
the benefit of the doubt saying, that's not...
like him. That's not how he would normally behave.
So I think it's important that we understand
that the more we can build said relationships,
which means communication, which means dialogue,
interfaith dialogue, intercultural dialogue,
which is not a natural state for us. We tend,
you know, birds of a feather flock together.
But I just think it's so important that if we
can make that little extra effort to learn about
these different groups so maybe we can understand
what their grievances might be. Precisely. And
what the misunderstanding is. What's the big
misunderstanding? There are huge misunderstandings.
I'll give you a couple of examples. This is a
hard topic, but I think it's a military channel.
People can understand it. They talked about the
Medal of Honor a moment ago. One of my favorite
anecdotes about misunderstanding is that an A
-Team, a special forces team I was working with,
went in and took down a bad guy, captured him,
got ready to leave. They had him zip -tied ready
to leave in Iraq. And when they were leaving,
the wife of the man told the interpreter with
the team the insurgents then she wouldn't use
that word of course she called them the foreigners
the foreign men which means the guys that came
from other parts of iraq or from other countries
nearby but she said them What she revealed was
their message, their campaign. Their information
operations are constant. We're doing it right
now. We're communicating. We're sharing information.
There can be nefarious purposes behind it. All
the way up to the dark side is called PSYOP,
or psychological operation, where we twist the
truth and even lie sometimes. But most information
is about sharing public relations. She said,
the foreign men told us that whenever the Americans
came to get our husbands, they would rape the
wife. And the interpreter said, oh. Oh and he
told the captain leading this team and the young
the young leader of the team the 18 leader said
tell the lady to tell all of her friends everything
that happened the whole truth if we're too rough
with her husband if we broke her favorite lamp
tell them that and tell them what didn't happen
because that's important because they'll believe
her but they won't believe us dropping leaflets
from the sky saying Americans won't rape you
right we have to share and that's that's a similar
propaganda method that that's been used for years
and years is that the you know in our case you
know the americans are going to come in and just
rape and pillage you know i think we're the fight
because actually it actually co -ops local men
if you're afraid that's going to happen to your
wife you might fight to resist when the americans
come into your house even though you're a florist
or an economist of some kind not an insurgent
I'm sorry we didn't get to have a full hour to
talk about this and I'm sure that Rob, we're
going to have you back on the program sometime
in the future to talk about the book and let's
quickly go. The book is Powerful Peace. Where
can they get it? Easiest, well anywhere, literally
anywhere you can get books, you can get Powerful
Peace. Every version of soft copy exists. We
have Nook, Koby, Sony, iBooks, the whole deal,
Kindle of course. So Amazon, Barnes & Noble,
the stores, the online sources and at PowerfulPeace
.net. www .powerfulpeace .net is helping build
one to provide to schools, to walk them through
the same curriculum that was done by my friend
Jamie Poland in Kentucky a few months ago. Okay,
you mentioned that this is being offered to classrooms
and schools around the country. Exactly, as an
information process. The kids in Jamie's class
came out of a Silver Week curriculum she'd built
out of the manuscript, in fact, and she said
that they told her they were changed people.
They didn't care about skin color, they didn't
care about background or nationality, they didn't
care about boys and girls, or the kid who's a
little nerdy, you know, the kid that gets bullied
a lot, they became... bigger people and their
parents wrote Jamie letters. I'm going to go
stop down and see them. I'm really excited about
that. Monday I get to see Barron County Schools,
get to see Jamie and her, all the peace hawks
we call them because they've helped us really
break some serious ground in educating youth
on powerful peace. Okay, well Rob Dubois, thank
you so much for being on Veterans Radio and filling
in almost as much time as we did have. We'll
be back next week talking about women in the
military hopefully and Can they get a hold of
Captain Coffee if we can and get him back on
at a future date? And I don't know what, Bob,
what have you got going? Well, we're going to
be talking about Syria. Definitely a very hot
spot in the world. We're also going to be talking
about North Korea. I'm hoping to get Dr. Rebecca
Grant back on. We had started a series on North
Korea and what will be the Air Force response
to the threat. Okay, okay. Coming up. Coming
up on Veterans Radio. Go to our website. Check
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if you want to get notified by us of what's going
on in the world. Until next week, you are dismissed.
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