WEBVTT 00:00:15.179 --> 00:00:18.100 From the studios of Ave Maria Radio in Ann Arbor, 00:00:18.160 --> 00:00:21.100 this is Veterans Radio. And now, here's your 00:00:21.100 --> 00:00:29.879 host, Dale Cronberg. And good morning America 00:00:29.879 --> 00:00:32.299 and welcome to Veterans Radio. What an exciting 00:00:32.299 --> 00:00:36.219 morning we've had here at WDEO and we would like 00:00:36.219 --> 00:00:38.420 to first start off and apologize for being a 00:00:38.420 --> 00:00:40.420 little late getting on the air but somebody else 00:00:40.420 --> 00:00:42.859 I guess got into the control room and was who 00:00:42.859 --> 00:00:46.439 knows what was happening at the time but it was 00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:51.759 it's been an adventure. It's been an adventure 00:00:51.759 --> 00:00:54.200 that's for sure yes it's live radio so we're 00:00:54.200 --> 00:00:55.619 gonna have to kind of flip a couple of things 00:00:55.619 --> 00:00:57.280 around today I want to make sure to let you know 00:00:57.280 --> 00:01:01.090 that we are going to be talking with Rob Du Bois 00:01:01.090 --> 00:01:03.250 about his book, an entirely powerful piece, and 00:01:03.250 --> 00:01:05.129 Rob is in the studio with us, and I'm going to 00:01:05.129 --> 00:01:07.510 be bringing him on in just a little bit. And 00:01:07.510 --> 00:01:09.390 hopefully we can get ahold of our other guest, 00:01:10.290 --> 00:01:12.629 Captain Coffee, Captain Gerald Coffee, who was 00:01:12.629 --> 00:01:15.049 a prisoner of war in Vietnam, and he is out in 00:01:15.049 --> 00:01:17.290 Hawaii, and we're having trouble waking him up 00:01:17.290 --> 00:01:19.209 this morning, which is understandable, considering 00:01:19.209 --> 00:01:21.469 it's three o 'clock in the morning there. But 00:01:21.469 --> 00:01:24.900 I do also want to talk a little bit about the 00:01:24.900 --> 00:01:27.840 program we did last week with Father Emil Capon. 00:01:28.799 --> 00:01:31.099 And as we told you last week, and for those of 00:01:31.099 --> 00:01:32.599 you that didn't get a chance to listen, you can 00:01:32.599 --> 00:01:36.319 go to our archives, veteransradio .net and click 00:01:36.319 --> 00:01:37.780 onto the archives and you'll be able to hear 00:01:37.780 --> 00:01:42.959 the whole story about Father Capon. And Bob Gould 00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:44.700 is here in the studio with me. He produced the 00:01:44.700 --> 00:01:46.459 program last week. And I want to just talk about 00:01:46.459 --> 00:01:49.739 this briefly. Go ahead, fire away. Well, I got 00:01:49.739 --> 00:01:53.209 this. I was inspired all week. No, it was amazing. 00:01:55.989 --> 00:01:59.430 I agree with you. The more I talk to these men 00:01:59.430 --> 00:02:01.849 and women who have served overseas, the more 00:02:01.849 --> 00:02:05.549 I realize how important our missions were. Whatever 00:02:05.549 --> 00:02:08.090 time period we were in the service, it really 00:02:08.090 --> 00:02:11.150 does come back and it's so important that we 00:02:11.150 --> 00:02:13.849 remember the lessons that we learned and that 00:02:13.849 --> 00:02:16.550 we continue on taking care of our fellow human 00:02:16.550 --> 00:02:21.169 beings. Amen to that. I just want to remind people 00:02:21.169 --> 00:02:23.490 that President Obama awarded Medal of Honor to 00:02:23.490 --> 00:02:27.990 Korean War Hero Father Emile Kapan on, I think 00:02:27.990 --> 00:02:30.750 this was on the 12th, or the 11th it was, I'm 00:02:30.750 --> 00:02:33.789 sorry, just last week. As I mentioned before, 00:02:33.810 --> 00:02:39.729 we talked about this inspiring story and I wanted 00:02:39.729 --> 00:02:42.310 to read a little bit from the citation as soon 00:02:42.310 --> 00:02:46.689 as I can find it. Hold on here. This is, as I 00:02:46.689 --> 00:02:52.189 said, live radio. Here we go. Come on. Where 00:02:52.189 --> 00:02:57.909 did it go? Oh, here we are. Chaplain Emile Capon 00:02:57.909 --> 00:02:59.949 distinguished himself by acts of gallantry and 00:02:59.949 --> 00:03:01.930 intrepidity above and beyond the call of duty 00:03:01.930 --> 00:03:04.590 while serving with the 3rd Battalion, 8th Cavalry 00:03:04.590 --> 00:03:07.909 Regiment, 1st Cav Division during combat operations 00:03:07.909 --> 00:03:11.210 against an armed enemy at Usan, Korea from November 00:03:11.210 --> 00:03:15.080 1st to 2nd, 1950. On November 1st, as Chinese 00:03:15.080 --> 00:03:17.259 Communist forces viciously attacked friendly 00:03:17.259 --> 00:03:20.460 elements, Chaplain Kapan calmly walked through 00:03:20.460 --> 00:03:22.620 withering enemy fire in order to provide comfort 00:03:22.620 --> 00:03:25.479 and medical aid to his comrades and rescue friendly 00:03:25.479 --> 00:03:28.020 wounded from no man's land. Though the Americans 00:03:28.020 --> 00:03:30.120 successfully repelled the assault, they found 00:03:30.120 --> 00:03:33.379 themselves surrounded by the enemy. Facing annihilation, 00:03:33.500 --> 00:03:35.919 the able -bodied men were ordered to evacuate. 00:03:36.379 --> 00:03:39.240 However, Chaplain Kapan, fully aware of his certain 00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:41.860 capture, elected to stay behind with the wounded. 00:03:42.569 --> 00:03:44.610 After the enemy succeeded in breaking through 00:03:44.610 --> 00:03:46.689 the defense in the early morning hours of November 00:03:46.689 --> 00:03:49.610 2nd, Chaplain Kapan continually made rounds as 00:03:49.610 --> 00:03:52.849 hand -to -hand combat ensued. As Chinese Communist 00:03:52.849 --> 00:03:55.310 forces approached the American position, Chaplain 00:03:55.310 --> 00:03:58.069 Kapan noticed an injured Chinese officer amongst 00:03:58.069 --> 00:04:00.270 the wounded and convinced him to negotiate the 00:04:00.270 --> 00:04:04.060 safe surrender of the American forces. Shortly 00:04:04.060 --> 00:04:06.860 after his capture, Chaplain Capon, with complete 00:04:06.860 --> 00:04:09.360 disregard for his personal safety and unwavering 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:12.000 resolve, bravely pushed aside an enemy soldier 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:14.520 preparing to execute Sergeant First Class Herbert 00:04:14.520 --> 00:04:17.620 Miller. Not only did Chaplain Capon's gallantry 00:04:17.620 --> 00:04:20.139 save the life of Sergeant Miller, but also his 00:04:20.139 --> 00:04:22.300 unparalleled courage and leadership inspired 00:04:22.300 --> 00:04:24.980 all those present, including those who might 00:04:24.980 --> 00:04:27.240 have otherwise fled in panic to remain and fight 00:04:27.240 --> 00:04:30.519 the enemy until captured. Chaplain Capon's extraordinary 00:04:30.519 --> 00:04:33.100 heroism and selflessness above and beyond the 00:04:33.100 --> 00:04:35.199 call of duty are in keeping with the highest 00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:37.740 traditions of military service and reflect great 00:04:37.740 --> 00:04:40.660 credit upon himself, the 3rd Battalion, 8th Cavalry 00:04:40.660 --> 00:04:43.079 Regiment, 1st Cavalry Division, and the United 00:04:43.079 --> 00:04:46.199 States Army. And receiving the Medal of Honor 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:50.100 on behalf of his uncle was his nephew, Ray Capon. 00:04:50.860 --> 00:04:54.060 You know, he only survived six months. That was 00:04:54.060 --> 00:04:57.920 it. That's how much sacrifice he made and his 00:04:57.920 --> 00:05:03.319 rations and water and his own comfort. It's fascinating 00:05:03.319 --> 00:05:05.060 when you look at the strength of these people 00:05:05.060 --> 00:05:07.860 that were POWs and I'm hoping that we can reconnect 00:05:07.860 --> 00:05:12.139 with Captain Coffee because his story of capture 00:05:12.139 --> 00:05:15.939 in North Vietnam is very similar. the determination 00:05:15.939 --> 00:05:19.019 to stay alive, for one thing, the reestablishment 00:05:19.019 --> 00:05:21.259 of their faith, not only in... Did you read the 00:05:21.259 --> 00:05:24.660 book? Oh, absolutely. Was there a chaplain there? 00:05:25.259 --> 00:05:29.300 No, they took care of themselves. They had to 00:05:29.300 --> 00:05:31.899 take care of themselves, and they were so isolated 00:05:31.899 --> 00:05:35.379 from each other, much unlike Chaplain Capone. 00:05:36.180 --> 00:05:39.399 They were separated, but they came up with this 00:05:39.399 --> 00:05:42.600 tap system that you might have heard of where 00:05:42.600 --> 00:05:47.170 it was... kind of a abbreviated Morris code system 00:05:47.170 --> 00:05:49.009 so that the bad guys couldn't figure out what 00:05:49.009 --> 00:05:50.790 they were doing and they were able to communicate 00:05:50.790 --> 00:05:53.209 throughout the compound with each other either 00:05:53.209 --> 00:05:55.750 by tapping on the wall or they would cough in 00:05:55.750 --> 00:05:59.810 a certain way and people would, it's an amazing 00:05:59.810 --> 00:06:02.829 story and I'm hoping that we can get him on before 00:06:02.829 --> 00:06:05.949 the end of the program today. Well that is a 00:06:05.949 --> 00:06:08.629 very interesting segue as I like to say in the 00:06:08.629 --> 00:06:11.149 business. It is from last week to this week. 00:06:14.159 --> 00:06:16.980 We're not done with this segue. We're not done 00:06:16.980 --> 00:06:20.019 with this segue because joining us in the studio 00:06:20.019 --> 00:06:24.939 right now is our guest for this morning, and 00:06:24.939 --> 00:06:28.579 this is Rob DuBois. Rob has written an amazing 00:06:28.579 --> 00:06:31.399 book in its own right called Powerful Peace. 00:06:32.220 --> 00:06:33.939 Rob, I'm going to let you tell us a little bit 00:06:33.939 --> 00:06:36.620 about yourself. He is a former Navy SEAL. He 00:06:36.620 --> 00:06:39.660 has been around the world on missions that he 00:06:39.660 --> 00:06:43.259 can't tell us about more than likely. And we're 00:06:43.259 --> 00:06:48.160 going to ask him to share the mission of his 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:51.100 book and his mission currently. And so Rob Du 00:06:51.100 --> 00:06:53.339 Bois, welcome to Veterans Radio. Thank you, Dale. 00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:57.879 It's great to be on. It's been kind of a hectic 00:06:57.879 --> 00:07:00.100 morning, so we're going to just kind of just 00:07:00.100 --> 00:07:02.060 jump right into it. So tell me a little bit about 00:07:02.060 --> 00:07:05.540 your military background. Well, as many readers 00:07:05.540 --> 00:07:07.939 know, I'm a hybrid. I spent 10 years in the Navy 00:07:07.939 --> 00:07:12.439 doing various works with various agencies as 00:07:12.439 --> 00:07:14.740 a Russian SME before, a subject matter expert 00:07:14.740 --> 00:07:17.959 before I picked up the Navy SEAL career. I went 00:07:17.959 --> 00:07:19.899 to Bud's halfway through my career and became 00:07:19.899 --> 00:07:23.160 a SEAL. I went to SDV Team 1 in Hawaii for seven 00:07:23.160 --> 00:07:26.279 years, and I spent most of those years in special 00:07:26.279 --> 00:07:28.860 reconnaissance, which means sneaking and peeping. 00:07:29.129 --> 00:07:31.410 Hiding under bushes and watching people do stuff, 00:07:31.750 --> 00:07:32.970 basically, is our mission. Of course, a lot of 00:07:32.970 --> 00:07:35.269 time in the SDV or the Seal Delivery Vehicle, 00:07:35.509 --> 00:07:37.730 our free -flooding mini -submarine, we float 00:07:37.730 --> 00:07:40.649 around underwater and go places in. Really? Then 00:07:40.649 --> 00:07:44.649 I retired after three years in DC as a virtual 00:07:44.649 --> 00:07:48.970 terrorist, running Red Cell work, emulating the 00:07:48.970 --> 00:07:52.170 enemy around the world to give our commanders 00:07:52.170 --> 00:07:54.449 better insights on what their vulnerabilities 00:07:54.449 --> 00:07:56.170 were so they could stop real terrorists from 00:07:56.170 --> 00:08:02.339 getting in. But you were in Iraq. No, you know, 00:08:02.819 --> 00:08:05.860 where were you prior to 9 -eleven? Well, that's 00:08:05.860 --> 00:08:07.519 a very interesting story because on 9 -eleven 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:09.560 I was teaching Arab seals how to kill terrorists 00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:11.740 in their country in the Middle East It was a 00:08:11.740 --> 00:08:14.120 Gulf country and we were actually on the ground 00:08:14.120 --> 00:08:17.649 with the guys for a few weeks On September 11th, 00:08:17.649 --> 00:08:20.389 we watched it happen live via satellite feed. 00:08:20.850 --> 00:08:22.490 Where we were, of course, it was the evening 00:08:22.490 --> 00:08:25.930 on that Tuesday, September 11th. And so 10 Arab 00:08:25.930 --> 00:08:28.930 seals and 10 American seals sat around in a horseshoe 00:08:28.930 --> 00:08:32.070 shape watching the satellite feed as almost 20 00:08:32.070 --> 00:08:35.990 Arab terrorists murdered 3 ,000 people. What 00:08:35.990 --> 00:08:38.049 was that like? Because in your first chapter 00:08:38.049 --> 00:08:43.190 in your book, you talk about the emotional reality 00:08:43.190 --> 00:08:48.419 of sitting there with these You know Middle Eastern 00:08:48.419 --> 00:08:55.159 Seals now and and watching it together One section 00:08:55.159 --> 00:08:58.240 of the book is called surreal and so real and 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:02.759 that's we chose that Deliberately because it 00:09:02.759 --> 00:09:04.899 was a surreal experience Absolutely to watch 00:09:04.899 --> 00:09:06.919 with allies and friends and guys who would have 00:09:06.919 --> 00:09:08.919 died beside me to stop what we were watching 00:09:08.919 --> 00:09:14.129 together was a unique and invaluable experience 00:09:14.129 --> 00:09:16.429 for me personally to be able to take my message 00:09:16.429 --> 00:09:19.240 forward with Powerful Peace over the years. It's 00:09:19.240 --> 00:09:21.700 a real stake in the ground, if you will, to base 00:09:21.700 --> 00:09:24.120 what I'm trying to talk about with applying smart 00:09:24.120 --> 00:09:26.340 power, with the fact that we cannot simply approach 00:09:26.340 --> 00:09:29.159 every problem with the same tool that smart power, 00:09:29.399 --> 00:09:31.399 hard and soft power, that we use coercion and 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:34.240 persuasion and attraction in equal and inappropriate 00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:36.399 amounts based on the situation, whether it's 00:09:36.399 --> 00:09:39.340 interpersonal with your family or international 00:09:39.340 --> 00:09:42.299 with other nations and other populations in the 00:09:42.299 --> 00:09:44.419 sense of, you know, Al -Qaeda is not a state 00:09:44.419 --> 00:09:47.559 -run organization. It has state support in some 00:09:47.559 --> 00:09:52.049 cases. But in fact, what I, you know, I used 00:09:52.049 --> 00:09:53.549 that story in the front of the book, the first 00:09:53.549 --> 00:09:55.970 chapter is called Hate, and we talk about watching 00:09:55.970 --> 00:09:59.330 9 -11 happen live, because I want my readers 00:09:59.330 --> 00:10:02.240 and I want... many other folks who have heard 00:10:02.240 --> 00:10:05.059 the message around the world different ways to 00:10:05.059 --> 00:10:09.600 understand that, you know, a lot of my Arab and 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:11.919 Muslim friends understand, of course, that Arabs 00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:14.960 and Muslims are not terrorists. Terrorists sometimes 00:10:14.960 --> 00:10:17.460 call themselves Muslims. There's a very big difference. 00:10:18.519 --> 00:10:20.679 The same thing is true with Catholic terrorists 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:23.539 or Jewish terrorists or atheist terrorists. And 00:10:23.539 --> 00:10:25.840 so what I want to convey with the idea about 00:10:25.840 --> 00:10:29.440 hate and talking about 9 -11 is surreal and so 00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:32.980 real. is that we are humans first and it depends 00:10:32.980 --> 00:10:34.840 on where we come from and what we see as far 00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:37.559 as what we believe and choose to do. Well I'm 00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:40.000 talking with Rob DuBois who is the author of 00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:42.279 a new book entitled, I don't know how new it 00:10:42.279 --> 00:10:45.000 is, but it's a book entitled Powerful Peace and 00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:46.860 if you have a question for Rob that you'd like 00:10:46.860 --> 00:10:48.659 to get in on the conversation give us a call 00:10:48.659 --> 00:10:52.980 here at Veterans Radio that's 877 -573 -7825. 00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:59.549 877 -573 -7825. So, what motivated you to write 00:10:59.549 --> 00:11:03.049 Powerful Peace? As a matter of fact, I began 00:11:03.049 --> 00:11:06.110 writing a blog called Powerful Peace. It's still, 00:11:06.110 --> 00:11:08.450 of course, up and running and is one of the cornerstones 00:11:08.450 --> 00:11:13.149 of our Seal of Peace consulting of today. I began 00:11:13.149 --> 00:11:15.970 writing a blog called Powerful Peace in 2008 00:11:15.970 --> 00:11:19.350 from Baghdad, I think it was. And I wanted to 00:11:19.350 --> 00:11:22.429 get the idea out to follow a column I'd been 00:11:22.429 --> 00:11:25.720 doing called, for goodness sake, play on words 00:11:25.720 --> 00:11:29.019 for an editor out of my hometown around DC. I 00:11:29.019 --> 00:11:32.779 was writing from Iraq for a few months on this 00:11:32.779 --> 00:11:35.059 column called For Goodness Sake because what 00:11:35.059 --> 00:11:37.340 my editor, Rob, who also is the editor of Powerful 00:11:37.340 --> 00:11:40.299 Peace, and I perceived, what he understood from 00:11:40.299 --> 00:11:42.600 my experience in talking to him in our hometown 00:11:42.600 --> 00:11:48.080 there was that... Again, back to the theme of 00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:50.740 humans are humans first and cultural layers have 00:11:50.740 --> 00:11:52.500 a lot to do with where we end up and what we 00:11:52.500 --> 00:11:54.679 choose to do. And we ourselves, of course, you 00:11:54.679 --> 00:11:56.440 know, parents tell their kids, you are who you 00:11:56.440 --> 00:11:57.899 hang out with, so I'm going to watch who you're 00:11:57.899 --> 00:12:00.120 hanging out with. I don't want you to absorb 00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:02.600 the behaviors of your friends who are, you know, 00:12:02.840 --> 00:12:04.960 shoplifting, for example, or whatever the mischief 00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:07.899 may be they're up to. The fact is the same thing 00:12:07.899 --> 00:12:10.580 is true in adult. relationships and in fact internationally 00:12:10.580 --> 00:12:13.580 we have the way who we hang out with makes a 00:12:13.580 --> 00:12:15.340 big influence. Look at Syria today. Syria is 00:12:15.340 --> 00:12:17.139 a disaster we're talking about before the show. 00:12:18.139 --> 00:12:20.039 It's a terrible mess and it has a lot to do with 00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:21.659 who it's been hanging out with over the years 00:12:21.659 --> 00:12:23.600 as far as where Syria is choosing to go these 00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:27.440 days in terms of abusing, viciously abusing civilian 00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:31.210 lives. I had written a piece back in the mid 00:12:31.210 --> 00:12:34.090 -2000s called Understanding for a U .S. Agency, 00:12:34.309 --> 00:12:37.090 and the point of understanding was very much 00:12:37.090 --> 00:12:39.570 like the smart power concepts of Joe Nye, who 00:12:39.570 --> 00:12:42.710 is from Harvard and first wrote about soft power 00:12:42.710 --> 00:12:46.690 in 1990, or persuasion and attraction, the same 00:12:46.690 --> 00:12:49.850 form of power that attracted the Japanese to 00:12:49.850 --> 00:12:52.850 pick up baseball and poodle skirts after the 00:12:52.850 --> 00:12:54.929 war. It was never forced on them. It was simply 00:12:54.929 --> 00:12:57.970 a matter of an appealing cultural aspect of American 00:12:57.970 --> 00:13:00.649 life. The same thing is true in our own behavior, 00:13:00.730 --> 00:13:03.289 which is why I emphasize so strongly personal 00:13:03.289 --> 00:13:06.070 accountability. How I choose to walk my walk 00:13:06.070 --> 00:13:08.909 daily is going to be a message that's much louder 00:13:08.909 --> 00:13:11.370 than any number of words I spout to people over 00:13:11.370 --> 00:13:13.830 the days. So when I learned about smart power, 00:13:14.389 --> 00:13:15.889 and I realized I've been writing about smart 00:13:15.889 --> 00:13:17.789 power, there was an intersection. And so I started 00:13:17.789 --> 00:13:20.289 talking about Powerful Peace at the blog, and 00:13:20.289 --> 00:13:22.409 it grew up over several years. And in fact, a 00:13:22.409 --> 00:13:24.590 lot of the content of Powerful Peace is in the 00:13:24.590 --> 00:13:28.500 book today. And so what would you say is the 00:13:28.500 --> 00:13:34.220 main message of Powerful Peace? I've been trying 00:13:34.220 --> 00:13:39.120 to capture that. There's a way that we... One, 00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:42.340 in fact, this is fun for your listeners. You 00:13:42.340 --> 00:13:45.100 actually get to see Powerful Peace evolving before 00:13:45.100 --> 00:13:48.710 your eyes. I'm starting to use an acronym of 00:13:48.710 --> 00:13:51.590 BREAD to keep an idea, to keep something in mind, 00:13:51.769 --> 00:13:53.090 a stake in the ground if you will mentally for 00:13:53.090 --> 00:13:54.909 folks to understand what it's about. But what 00:13:54.909 --> 00:13:57.470 I'm advocating in Powerful Peace is the acronym 00:13:57.470 --> 00:14:01.090 of BREAD which starts with balance. Balance is 00:14:01.090 --> 00:14:03.850 ultimately the best way for any individual to 00:14:03.850 --> 00:14:05.370 make a difference in the world in an effective 00:14:05.370 --> 00:14:08.889 way because if we balance our body, mind, heart 00:14:08.889 --> 00:14:11.909 and soul, the four aspects of human life as I'm 00:14:11.909 --> 00:14:14.769 describing it, we become more effective citizens, 00:14:15.029 --> 00:14:17.629 more effective family members. If we're not imbalanced 00:14:17.629 --> 00:14:19.590 as a bodybuilder who doesn't care anything about 00:14:19.590 --> 00:14:22.690 anybody else's cares, or an emotional superpower 00:14:22.690 --> 00:14:24.509 who cares nothing about developing his mind, 00:14:24.889 --> 00:14:27.009 or a spiritual guru who absolutely has no interest 00:14:27.009 --> 00:14:29.309 in the worldly things around him, those imbalanced 00:14:29.309 --> 00:14:32.070 characters are not very useful to society. So 00:14:32.070 --> 00:14:35.259 we start with balance and respect. is key. Respect 00:14:35.259 --> 00:14:37.620 is one of the biggest themes in Powerful Peace. 00:14:37.740 --> 00:14:40.419 If we have time during the program, I'll actually... 00:14:40.399 --> 00:14:42.259 pull an excerpt out of the book about respect 00:14:42.259 --> 00:14:44.240 at Abu Ghraib, one of my lessons I picked up 00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:47.700 at Abu Ghraib prison. Empathy is key. Empathy 00:14:47.700 --> 00:14:50.779 is the point of being in relationship with other 00:14:50.779 --> 00:14:53.340 people in my personal opinion. It doesn't mean 00:14:53.340 --> 00:14:56.419 being touchy -feely. It doesn't mean being a 00:14:56.419 --> 00:14:58.759 Casper milk toast who's so wringing his hand 00:14:58.759 --> 00:15:01.259 at every person's distress, but rather understanding 00:15:01.259 --> 00:15:03.899 where individuals are coming from is key to being 00:15:03.899 --> 00:15:05.580 functional with them, even if I'm trying to kill 00:15:05.580 --> 00:15:08.659 them. It doesn't matter that you know powerful 00:15:08.659 --> 00:15:11.259 peace is not about loving everybody into a state 00:15:11.259 --> 00:15:13.879 of submission There are guys like we talked about 00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:17.080 in every presentation who may be willing would 00:15:17.080 --> 00:15:19.360 would be willing to walk into this studio right 00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:24.120 now and push a plunger on a Lever in their hand 00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:26.919 to blow themselves up to kill the three of us 00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:31.019 That would happen right now if a guy probably 00:15:31.019 --> 00:15:32.759 somebody listening to this right now who would 00:15:32.759 --> 00:15:35.740 like to have access to us could do so, he would 00:15:35.740 --> 00:15:38.419 do so. So in that case, the only option for an 00:15:38.419 --> 00:15:39.820 armed individual would be to shoot the guy in 00:15:39.820 --> 00:15:41.860 the face. You cannot stop a person like that 00:15:41.860 --> 00:15:44.639 with loving and talking and kumbaya. There are 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:47.419 cases for hard power, for ultimate kinetic options. 00:15:47.980 --> 00:15:50.720 I advocate that all the time and I advocate for 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:53.720 a ruthless restraint. When we have the capacity 00:15:53.720 --> 00:15:56.470 to use violence to stop... a worse violence, 00:15:56.889 --> 00:15:59.029 then we have an obligation to use it. We also 00:15:59.029 --> 00:16:00.710 therefore have an obligation to develop that 00:16:00.710 --> 00:16:02.590 capacity, which is why I'm an expert marksman 00:16:02.590 --> 00:16:06.070 and I'm a black belt and other ways I can break 00:16:06.070 --> 00:16:08.909 people, but I choose not to use that power and 00:16:08.909 --> 00:16:11.009 that makes me more powerful in society because 00:16:11.009 --> 00:16:13.570 if it's understood that I can, but I choose not 00:16:13.570 --> 00:16:16.389 to, then there's a much greater respect evident. 00:16:17.220 --> 00:16:21.000 So that was a big diet drive on empathy in the 00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:23.039 destructive perspective, but obviously empathy 00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:25.360 gives people what Stephen Covey, Seven Habits 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:27.480 of Highly Effective People, Stephen Covey, talked 00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:30.879 about as being psychological air. When I listen 00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:32.659 to you with the intent to understand what you're 00:16:32.659 --> 00:16:35.679 saying, you don't feel rushed, you don't feel 00:16:35.679 --> 00:16:37.539 defensive, you don't feel like you have to force 00:16:37.539 --> 00:16:41.240 what you want to get across into my head because 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:44.179 I'm hearing it deliberately. That empathy makes 00:16:44.179 --> 00:16:46.980 me much more effective with other people. Accountability 00:16:46.980 --> 00:16:49.980 is the A of bread. Accountability is where we 00:16:49.980 --> 00:16:52.779 each responsibly say, you know what, I did do 00:16:52.779 --> 00:16:55.200 that thing. That was wrong. That was a messed 00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:56.940 up choice on my part, and I'm sorry for doing 00:16:56.940 --> 00:17:00.659 it. You know, standard, much less practice than 00:17:00.659 --> 00:17:02.879 it should be in society, in my opinion, internationally 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:06.519 as well. America is not a perfect country in 00:17:06.519 --> 00:17:09.549 the sense that we've never made a mistake. just 00:17:09.549 --> 00:17:11.650 like I am not a perfect person in the sense that 00:17:11.650 --> 00:17:13.710 I've never made a mistake. In fact, I outdo myself 00:17:13.710 --> 00:17:16.390 on mistakes every day, I think. I'm a very flawed, 00:17:16.450 --> 00:17:19.529 very human person, but... I've learned through 00:17:19.529 --> 00:17:21.769 my own painful experience that when I choose 00:17:21.769 --> 00:17:23.910 to be accountable for said mistakes when I choose 00:17:23.910 --> 00:17:26.589 to be responsible and Give people the respect 00:17:26.589 --> 00:17:29.609 of apologizing or acknowledge my wrongdoing It 00:17:29.609 --> 00:17:31.990 tends to strengthen relationships and not damage 00:17:31.990 --> 00:17:34.730 them further which denial does and finally dignity 00:17:34.730 --> 00:17:37.150 I talk about dignity and respect throughout the 00:17:37.150 --> 00:17:39.289 book especially in two solid chapters describing 00:17:39.289 --> 00:17:42.349 dignity in one and respect in the other and dignity 00:17:42.349 --> 00:17:44.670 is something that every human being requires 00:17:44.670 --> 00:17:48.460 and I've seen Indignation I've seen people being 00:17:48.460 --> 00:17:51.359 treated without dignity in every nation So it's 00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:54.160 close to respect but respect in my opinion is 00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:56.180 much more a way of how we behave like I talked 00:17:56.180 --> 00:17:57.779 about at Abu Ghraib I was taught a lesson in 00:17:57.779 --> 00:18:00.119 that in real time by one of the guards dealing 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:03.440 with the prisoners and in fact respect is a way 00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:06.420 I behave Every minute of my day when I'm speaking 00:18:06.420 --> 00:18:08.759 to somebody I like or don't like it doesn't mean 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:10.720 only a feeling like I'm in love with somebody 00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:12.400 It's a feeling like it's a sense of doing what 00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:15.960 you choose to do respectfully We're going to 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:19.220 take a break here since our calendar clock is 00:18:19.220 --> 00:18:20.599 off a little bit, but we are going to take a 00:18:20.599 --> 00:18:22.480 break. We're going to be playing our Medal of 00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:24.299 Honor and then going through that. We'll be coming 00:18:24.299 --> 00:18:26.279 back with Rob Du Bois. We're going to talk about 00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:29.599 that experiences that you gained from the Abu 00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:32.759 Ghraib. You're listening to Veterans Radio. We'll 00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:35.079 be right back after this. And we're back on Veterans 00:18:35.079 --> 00:18:37.019 Radio and we're trying to play a little Anchors 00:18:37.019 --> 00:18:39.960 Away there for our guest, Navy SEAL Robert Du 00:18:39.960 --> 00:18:43.190 Bois, who has written a book. a powerful book, 00:18:43.269 --> 00:18:45.369 pardon the pun, entitled Powerful Peace. And 00:18:45.369 --> 00:18:48.990 we were just talking about some of the issues 00:18:48.990 --> 00:18:51.609 that you touched on, Rob, are really important. 00:18:52.069 --> 00:18:54.049 By the way, if you want to get in on this conversation, 00:18:54.130 --> 00:18:58.490 you can give us a call here at 877 -573 -7825. 00:18:58.869 --> 00:19:05.910 877 -573 -7825. And we're talking about how Rob's 00:19:05.910 --> 00:19:09.289 military experience has kind of morphed into 00:19:09.289 --> 00:19:13.980 this I can't even describe it really except that 00:19:13.980 --> 00:19:16.859 instead of using our power of might, let's use 00:19:16.859 --> 00:19:19.039 the power of our minds and figure out how that 00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:21.799 we can get along with people without having to 00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:24.799 necessarily shoot them all the time. While ensuring 00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:27.700 that we maintain the capacity to shoot, that's 00:19:27.700 --> 00:19:30.480 the key. It's a balanced approach and it's based 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:32.940 on the fact that we can use force if we need 00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:37.279 to because nothing invites violence like weakness. 00:19:38.279 --> 00:19:40.559 That's the target. That's exactly what the brute 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:43.059 is looking for. This kind of goes all the way 00:19:43.059 --> 00:19:46.500 back to Teddy Roosevelt and sending the fleet 00:19:46.500 --> 00:19:48.359 around the world and carrying the big stick, 00:19:48.900 --> 00:19:51.079 but we're not going to use this stick unless 00:19:51.079 --> 00:19:55.490 it's absolutely positively necessary. Don't think 00:19:55.490 --> 00:19:57.809 that you can get away with stuff. And that's 00:19:57.809 --> 00:19:59.630 a great example when speaking of segues. What 00:19:59.630 --> 00:20:03.809 a perfect example of where we're going with powerful 00:20:03.809 --> 00:20:07.970 peace compared to the long -standing philosophy 00:20:07.970 --> 00:20:13.490 of walking softly and carrying a big stick. Walking 00:20:13.490 --> 00:20:17.009 softly in the world is something that I believe 00:20:17.009 --> 00:20:20.410 that is hard for some nations with dominant power 00:20:20.410 --> 00:20:23.730 to do. I don't mean that dominant nations like 00:20:23.730 --> 00:20:27.170 America are abusive necessarily. I mean, there 00:20:27.170 --> 00:20:29.309 are nations that are abusive like Saddam Hussein. 00:20:29.509 --> 00:20:30.970 We talked about this right here in the book throughout. 00:20:31.430 --> 00:20:35.269 The book is the years I spent in Iraq. However, 00:20:35.509 --> 00:20:38.029 it is possible for a dominant power in a household 00:20:38.029 --> 00:20:43.390 or on the planet to be less than completely mindful 00:20:43.390 --> 00:20:46.950 of that person or nation's impact on others. 00:20:47.490 --> 00:20:52.099 We hear that a lot from our if you will, detractors 00:20:52.099 --> 00:20:55.059 around the world who say America deserved 9 -11 00:20:55.059 --> 00:20:57.299 in some cases. The most horrible thing that we 00:20:57.299 --> 00:21:00.279 can hear is those who thought it was a proper 00:21:00.279 --> 00:21:02.960 comeuppance, a black eye on the great power that 00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:04.720 was ignorant of the ugly Americans, ignorant 00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:09.160 about the needs of the world. So the perspectives 00:21:09.160 --> 00:21:12.140 we have around the world are, again, where what 00:21:12.140 --> 00:21:14.319 we believe and what we choose to do are driven 00:21:14.319 --> 00:21:16.759 by what we have observed, our experiences. So 00:21:16.759 --> 00:21:21.549 I do, if you will, go there. on the Israel -Palestine 00:21:21.549 --> 00:21:23.069 issue. In the front of the book I talk about 00:21:23.069 --> 00:21:28.029 that. I don't say I'm for X or Y, because I'm 00:21:28.029 --> 00:21:31.269 not. I'm for the children in Palestine and Israel 00:21:31.269 --> 00:21:35.130 being safe. That's what I'm for. I'm for having 00:21:35.130 --> 00:21:37.250 families not be torn apart on either side by 00:21:37.250 --> 00:21:40.269 any reason. I'm for letting people find the way 00:21:40.269 --> 00:21:42.569 to get to the common ground, find ways to dialogue 00:21:42.569 --> 00:21:45.089 in respectful discourse with, in some cases, 00:21:45.309 --> 00:21:47.069 ruthless restraint of the power they know they 00:21:47.069 --> 00:21:51.059 have behind them, but choose not to use it. So 00:21:51.059 --> 00:21:54.319 balancing powers, applying smart power, using 00:21:54.319 --> 00:21:56.440 a full range of soft to hard power, persuasion 00:21:56.440 --> 00:22:00.720 to coercion, that is all based on being humble 00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:03.180 and having empathy and understanding what the 00:22:03.180 --> 00:22:06.619 needs are and what the perceptions are. Having 00:22:06.619 --> 00:22:09.500 done a lot of civil affairs support around the 00:22:09.500 --> 00:22:12.849 world, I've seen... you know, where we, we the 00:22:12.849 --> 00:22:14.529 superpower, if it was the coalition of the Americans 00:22:14.529 --> 00:22:17.529 in isolation, have made decisions and made choices 00:22:17.529 --> 00:22:20.430 that were with the greatest of intentions, which 00:22:20.430 --> 00:22:23.089 some say the road to hell is paved with. We, 00:22:23.289 --> 00:22:25.869 for example, a great example of that is a well 00:22:25.869 --> 00:22:29.630 that was dug in Afghanistan, which was built 00:22:29.630 --> 00:22:31.690 by the Americans, cost a certain amount of money 00:22:31.690 --> 00:22:35.289 and time to build right, and it was with the 00:22:35.289 --> 00:22:36.789 intention because the ladies had to walk something 00:22:36.789 --> 00:22:39.109 like five miles to get water every single day. 00:22:39.579 --> 00:22:41.220 They'd go to the river and then come back with 00:22:41.220 --> 00:22:44.819 the water. And we in our isolation decided it 00:22:44.819 --> 00:22:47.000 was a better thing for the ladies in the society. 00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:49.599 And of course, we're about empowering women having 00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:52.619 equal rights between the genders is a huge part 00:22:52.619 --> 00:22:56.180 of having stability in any society. Having anybody 00:22:56.180 --> 00:23:00.599 be degraded or dominated by race or religion 00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:04.240 or gender is undermining to the success of that 00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:08.069 society. So what we try to do is support. the 00:23:08.069 --> 00:23:11.690 women in a society where possible and so the 00:23:11.690 --> 00:23:14.410 well was built and when the builders came back 00:23:14.410 --> 00:23:16.829 sometime later they found it kicked in and they 00:23:16.829 --> 00:23:19.230 thought well how outrageous you know the Taliban 00:23:19.230 --> 00:23:20.950 were here and they destroyed this well whatever 00:23:20.950 --> 00:23:22.970 the assumptions were they dug a little deeper 00:23:22.970 --> 00:23:26.990 and found out the ladies destroyed the well themselves 00:23:28.200 --> 00:23:30.779 because the ladies had no opportunity to talk 00:23:30.779 --> 00:23:33.019 to other ladies except for the one or two hour 00:23:33.019 --> 00:23:35.740 walk around trip to come with water. Every day 00:23:35.740 --> 00:23:38.339 they went to get the water and came back. Now 00:23:38.339 --> 00:23:41.460 this is something that your standard WASP guy 00:23:41.460 --> 00:23:44.380 military person would not comprehend. It was 00:23:44.380 --> 00:23:46.579 a very important part of their life was to be 00:23:46.579 --> 00:23:48.920 able to walk to get the water, to get away from 00:23:48.920 --> 00:23:51.359 the men for a few hours, and to do that part 00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:54.339 of their day. And so that was a great example 00:23:54.339 --> 00:23:56.440 of the best of intentions that were not fully 00:23:56.440 --> 00:23:58.650 comprehended. The empathy was not there, absolutely. 00:23:59.049 --> 00:24:02.730 Well, we're learning slowly but surely that our 00:24:02.730 --> 00:24:04.690 way is not necessarily the right way. It's like 00:24:04.690 --> 00:24:07.369 people talking about, well, you know, they need 00:24:07.369 --> 00:24:10.490 to have a democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan that 00:24:10.490 --> 00:24:12.289 looks like ours. And we know it'll never look 00:24:12.289 --> 00:24:14.609 like ours. Right. Because, I mean, we're such 00:24:14.609 --> 00:24:17.150 an aberration when it comes to a democracy. When 00:24:17.150 --> 00:24:20.869 you think about all of the different ethnic groups 00:24:20.869 --> 00:24:25.369 that make up America and how we somehow get along, 00:24:26.059 --> 00:24:28.759 I don't know. But, you know, and then we look 00:24:28.759 --> 00:24:31.420 at the rest of the world and the guy across the 00:24:31.420 --> 00:24:33.240 street doesn't like the guy on the other side 00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:35.220 of the street because he wears white and one 00:24:35.220 --> 00:24:37.799 wears blue or something and that's going to go 00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:41.460 on forever. We just can't fathom that. I think, 00:24:41.900 --> 00:24:44.180 you know, I liked what you were mentioning before 00:24:44.180 --> 00:24:46.380 about the respect and the empathy and so forth 00:24:46.380 --> 00:24:49.799 and there was a speech I saw once and this guy 00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:52.099 was talking about with just a little understanding, 00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:57.259 just a little caring little empathy We could 00:24:57.259 --> 00:25:00.200 get along a lot better right instead of judging 00:25:00.200 --> 00:25:03.440 people based on our own idea of what the world 00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:06.420 should be like Maybe we could you know, maybe 00:25:06.420 --> 00:25:08.380 things could get a little bit quieter in the 00:25:08.380 --> 00:25:10.599 world and maybe we could actually decide that 00:25:10.599 --> 00:25:13.220 okay we are going to take care of some other 00:25:13.220 --> 00:25:15.680 people who don't have the advantages that we 00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:20.069 do and you know 800 years of authoritarian control. 00:25:20.230 --> 00:25:22.390 I mean, even just coming out of authoritarian 00:25:22.390 --> 00:25:25.410 control must be frightening. It begins in the 00:25:25.410 --> 00:25:29.710 home, too, like so much good. If people come 00:25:29.710 --> 00:25:31.750 out of broken homes, come out of unstable homes, 00:25:31.910 --> 00:25:34.230 if they're broken people, they don't have the 00:25:34.230 --> 00:25:37.259 ability. to build stable societies and stable 00:25:37.259 --> 00:25:40.299 nations and stable international relations. We 00:25:40.299 --> 00:25:43.339 who are broken simply can repeat what we know. 00:25:43.900 --> 00:25:46.259 That's a simple fact about human upbringing. 00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:49.140 So where we can provide stability for homes, 00:25:49.339 --> 00:25:51.619 for families, for these villages or cities, wherever 00:25:51.619 --> 00:25:53.519 we're dealing with nation building. Like you 00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:55.660 said, we can't build an American -style democracy. 00:25:56.220 --> 00:26:00.099 We can... facilitate the general human desire 00:26:00.099 --> 00:26:02.700 for representative democracy, whatever form that 00:26:02.700 --> 00:26:05.839 may take. And that's one of the stomping points 00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:08.700 in Powerful Peace, is to say that it is absurd. 00:26:09.160 --> 00:26:12.240 We have been criticized for American arrogance. 00:26:12.980 --> 00:26:17.339 Well, one of the reasons that I support the idea 00:26:17.339 --> 00:26:19.380 that some have considered us arrogant, based 00:26:19.380 --> 00:26:21.059 on, again, what they perceive compared to what 00:26:21.059 --> 00:26:24.240 we perceive as we're projecting, is that same 00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:25.980 thing about building a well where we don't understand 00:26:25.980 --> 00:26:27.920 what the purpose is, what the focal purpose is, 00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:31.519 and we do the same thing at a higher level nationally, 00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:35.240 and we may say that it would be good for Iraq 00:26:35.240 --> 00:26:38.059 to have Burger Kings and McDonald's, and it would 00:26:38.059 --> 00:26:40.079 be great, there are of course Burger Kings and 00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:41.980 McDonald's, but it would be great for them to 00:26:41.980 --> 00:26:46.980 have what we have, and that is a simple... error 00:26:46.980 --> 00:26:50.440 on thinking. Iraqi culture is thousands of years 00:26:50.440 --> 00:26:53.079 old. Ours is a couple of centuries. Why in the 00:26:53.079 --> 00:26:55.440 world would we be so presumptuous as to say that 00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:57.420 Iraq should look like America? And most Americans 00:26:57.420 --> 00:26:59.779 don't say that. Most Americans say we'd like 00:26:59.779 --> 00:27:02.599 to see a stable Iraq that has Iraqi values at 00:27:02.599 --> 00:27:05.319 its core, that appreciates human worth and dignity, 00:27:05.720 --> 00:27:08.000 and that is Iraq. It's a healthier rock, and 00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:09.500 that's by God's grace, but that's what I'm going 00:27:09.500 --> 00:27:11.200 to help develop as we keep fighting for this, 00:27:11.220 --> 00:27:13.700 you know, looking at each nation, each population 00:27:13.700 --> 00:27:15.680 having its chance to develop into its fullest, 00:27:15.819 --> 00:27:18.279 best, healthy self. Okay. I've only got two points 00:27:18.279 --> 00:27:20.619 I want to touch on here. Number one, you mentioned 00:27:20.619 --> 00:27:23.400 earlier that you wanted to talk about the respect 00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:27.500 issue at Abu Ghraib, and so you have a segment 00:27:27.500 --> 00:27:30.420 in the book that you want to read to us. Absolutely. 00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:35.640 I visited Abu Ghraib back in 2004, 2005. Following 00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:38.380 the scandal, which was not my fault. I'd like 00:27:38.380 --> 00:27:42.000 to advocate that right away. I was on a counter 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:43.640 -terrorism, anti -terrorism assessment where 00:27:43.640 --> 00:27:46.279 I would go and play a terrorist. I would attack 00:27:46.279 --> 00:27:48.920 U .S. bases for the purpose of finding vulnerabilities 00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:53.180 that the commander could build up against the 00:27:53.180 --> 00:27:54.940 actual existing vulnerabilities. We had a number 00:27:54.940 --> 00:27:57.799 of... number of successful predictions if you 00:27:57.799 --> 00:27:59.660 will of scenarios that that would that might 00:27:59.660 --> 00:28:01.299 develop based on the existing vulnerabilities 00:28:01.299 --> 00:28:03.819 and Most of them were stopped because of the 00:28:03.819 --> 00:28:05.599 presence of my team having gone there and said 00:28:05.599 --> 00:28:07.720 this is what we see We're looking at it like 00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:09.599 terrorists. We don't want you getting attacked 00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:12.160 by uncertainty terrorists effectively and here's 00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:13.880 what we recommend you do and it was done many 00:28:13.880 --> 00:28:16.380 times on one of these visits I was talking to 00:28:16.380 --> 00:28:23.720 a a guard at Abu Ghraib And I like to indict 00:28:23.720 --> 00:28:26.059 myself first, whenever I have a chance, back 00:28:26.059 --> 00:28:28.940 to the accountability of breath. If we have a 00:28:28.940 --> 00:28:31.240 chance to identify something that we're not doing 00:28:31.240 --> 00:28:33.380 right, it's good for other people to hear it 00:28:33.380 --> 00:28:35.579 because it helps them be more honest about their 00:28:35.579 --> 00:28:39.039 own limitations. So swaggering in my Kami uniform, 00:28:39.720 --> 00:28:41.980 rifle and trident, that's the seal insignia on 00:28:41.980 --> 00:28:46.299 our chest. I'd been looking out over the yard 00:28:46.299 --> 00:28:49.299 and closed in triple -strand concertina wire 00:28:49.299 --> 00:28:51.099 while we talked and staring at the detainees 00:28:51.099 --> 00:28:54.079 with self -righteous, angry suspicion. Which 00:28:54.079 --> 00:28:56.380 one had most recently killed one of my own friends? 00:28:56.920 --> 00:28:58.980 I asked this guard how he could stand to deal 00:28:58.980 --> 00:29:03.440 with these, in my words, scumbags. I'd just try 00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:05.799 to treat them all with respect, he replied. Some 00:29:05.799 --> 00:29:07.579 of these men were detained for being in the wrong 00:29:07.579 --> 00:29:09.519 place at the wrong time. They're innocent, but 00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:11.599 it'll take us several months to confirm that 00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:14.099 and return them to their families. He paused. 00:29:14.380 --> 00:29:17.200 It's hard here for a woman to try to run the 00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:19.799 house without her husband. I deflated a little. 00:29:20.759 --> 00:29:23.140 He continued, some are absolutely guilty. That 00:29:23.140 --> 00:29:25.539 guy over there, he pointed to a smallest, quiet, 00:29:25.700 --> 00:29:27.900 ordinary -looking individual, walking alone in 00:29:27.900 --> 00:29:30.779 a dystocia robe, killed two Americans in an ambush 00:29:30.779 --> 00:29:33.220 a few days ago. He's a hard case and nobody else 00:29:33.220 --> 00:29:35.359 can work with him. But he's willing to talk with 00:29:35.359 --> 00:29:37.599 me and usually does what I ask. I think it's 00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:40.500 because I act respectfully toward him. I deflated 00:29:40.500 --> 00:29:44.119 the rest of the way. anecdote from my personal 00:29:44.119 --> 00:29:46.759 life and my personal correction by circumstance 00:29:46.759 --> 00:29:49.440 by being shown a better way is one of the many 00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:51.039 infinite number of events that have occurred 00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:53.900 in my life that have taught me to behave respectfully 00:29:53.900 --> 00:29:56.640 and humbly and openly and accountable with accountability 00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:58.920 whenever possible now again as I said I feel 00:29:58.920 --> 00:30:01.700 every single day but these are these are crucial 00:30:01.700 --> 00:30:03.480 lessons I've learned I'm trying to share with 00:30:03.609 --> 00:30:06.109 everyone. This is an issue I want to talk about. 00:30:06.190 --> 00:30:08.589 We're going to take one more break right now 00:30:08.589 --> 00:30:11.809 to talk a little bit about the Marine Scholars 00:30:11.809 --> 00:30:14.170 and then we'll be back. We're talking with Rob 00:30:14.170 --> 00:30:17.049 Du Bois. His book is Powerful Peace. And again, 00:30:17.069 --> 00:30:18.730 if you want to get in on the conversation, we're 00:30:18.730 --> 00:30:20.509 coming up toward the top of the hour already. 00:30:20.869 --> 00:30:25.230 It's 877 -573 -7825. We'll be right back after 00:30:25.230 --> 00:30:27.329 this message. You're listening to Veterans Radio. 00:30:27.549 --> 00:30:29.349 We're back on Veterans Radio and we're talking 00:30:29.349 --> 00:30:32.430 with Rob Du Bois whose book is entitled Powerful 00:30:32.430 --> 00:30:34.609 Peace. can find on Amazon and probably a number 00:30:34.609 --> 00:30:37.529 of other places. But I think it's really important 00:30:37.529 --> 00:30:42.130 for you to pay attention to what we're talking 00:30:42.130 --> 00:30:44.549 about today. And I think it's fascinating when 00:30:44.549 --> 00:30:47.710 we think about the respect that Rob is talking 00:30:47.710 --> 00:30:51.569 about with regards to other human beings. And 00:30:51.569 --> 00:30:54.250 this is kind of a theme that I find running through 00:30:54.250 --> 00:30:57.109 many of the books that we talk about here on 00:30:57.109 --> 00:30:59.849 Veterans Radio with veterans and what they have 00:30:59.849 --> 00:31:03.319 learned from their experience. And I know that 00:31:03.319 --> 00:31:05.720 right now, and we've got about 10 minutes to 00:31:05.720 --> 00:31:07.740 go, I wanted to tell you, what are you doing 00:31:07.740 --> 00:31:10.279 right now? What are you doing in Michigan today? 00:31:10.279 --> 00:31:11.539 Well, that's a great question. What is it being 00:31:11.539 --> 00:31:14.039 on our program, of course? Believe it or not, 00:31:14.339 --> 00:31:16.740 I'm doing almost everything. I've been in consult 00:31:16.740 --> 00:31:19.519 with, I came up to Michigan initially for a conference 00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:22.220 on faith and conflict. We did over at Henry Ford, 00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:26.160 the university downtown in Detroit. I was invited 00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:28.259 there by a friend's wife who was coordinating 00:31:28.259 --> 00:31:30.779 this faith and conflict conference. When I got 00:31:30.779 --> 00:31:35.319 there, we began talking to law enforcement and 00:31:35.319 --> 00:31:38.319 youth and the local Islamic center in Dearborn, 00:31:38.460 --> 00:31:40.819 which of course is the, you know, well -known 00:31:40.819 --> 00:31:45.000 for, I won't say it's the... primary Muslim population 00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:47.319 in the United States, but I believe it is. It's 00:31:47.319 --> 00:31:49.539 the largest concentration of Muslims, I think, 00:31:49.700 --> 00:31:52.240 in the country. So I met the Imam there, who's 00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:54.359 well -renowned. He was a fellow speaker at the 00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:56.619 conference. We had a chance to talk, and he introduced 00:31:56.619 --> 00:31:58.799 me to his director. So I'll be connecting over 00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:01.420 at the Islamic Center when we can get the right 00:32:01.420 --> 00:32:03.140 venue, just to connect, because a lot of the 00:32:03.140 --> 00:32:05.279 book talks about my work with Muslims, of course. 00:32:05.839 --> 00:32:08.319 It's not a Muslim -centric book, it's not an 00:32:08.319 --> 00:32:10.000 anti -Muslim book, it's a simple fact that I 00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:11.819 have done a lot of work in a lot of countries 00:32:11.819 --> 00:32:14.539 that were Muslim predominant and I have been 00:32:14.539 --> 00:32:17.940 able to, if you will, represent that population 00:32:17.940 --> 00:32:22.700 among people who are more like me than I am like 00:32:22.700 --> 00:32:25.000 them, than I am like the folks I've worked with. 00:32:26.299 --> 00:32:29.660 So that extended into a conversation, a really 00:32:29.660 --> 00:32:31.920 good engagement with the commanding officer of 00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:34.400 a local very tough precinct in Detroit. We'll 00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:36.700 be working together and going forward on youth 00:32:36.700 --> 00:32:39.339 initiatives, trying to help out with kids, trying 00:32:39.339 --> 00:32:42.259 to help... You know, the kids in Detroit, it's 00:32:42.259 --> 00:32:44.279 a very, very difficult situation right now. The 00:32:44.279 --> 00:32:48.500 city is in a very hard place economically. I 00:32:48.500 --> 00:32:51.059 wrote a piece about that recently when I got 00:32:51.059 --> 00:32:53.859 to experience it for a week or so, and I began 00:32:53.859 --> 00:32:57.099 to live and breathe. My host, my sponsor, Kerry, 00:32:57.559 --> 00:33:00.839 he's a mentor for me, and he's a guy who lives 00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:03.380 downtown in one of the worst places. He chose 00:33:03.380 --> 00:33:05.400 to move downtown into one of the harder areas. 00:33:05.869 --> 00:33:08.049 so that he could be, as an activist, active. 00:33:08.130 --> 00:33:10.450 Now, this is another WASP like me, a guy who 00:33:10.450 --> 00:33:12.930 doesn't have to live there, but chooses to. So 00:33:12.930 --> 00:33:15.910 we have to take all the appropriate precautions 00:33:15.910 --> 00:33:17.569 for living in a neighborhood like that. And down 00:33:17.569 --> 00:33:19.569 the street from there was a youth center. Got 00:33:19.569 --> 00:33:20.950 to do an appearance there the other day. People 00:33:20.950 --> 00:33:23.950 can go to PowerfulBeast .net and see the blog. 00:33:23.990 --> 00:33:25.730 Click at the top to see the blog. You'll see 00:33:25.730 --> 00:33:28.109 the article that I wrote about that event. The 00:33:28.109 --> 00:33:31.170 kids came swarming, kids of all colors, all backgrounds, 00:33:31.269 --> 00:33:34.369 from this very difficult area to grow up. I went 00:33:34.369 --> 00:33:35.869 and talked to him about the idea. Of course, 00:33:36.049 --> 00:33:38.809 at a children's level, 8 to 12 year old level, 00:33:39.029 --> 00:33:40.630 about powerful peace, about dignity, respect, 00:33:40.750 --> 00:33:43.190 hope, promise, what they can look forward to, 00:33:43.250 --> 00:33:45.009 their potential, because I don't want kids to 00:33:45.009 --> 00:33:46.750 feel like they're stuck where they've always 00:33:46.750 --> 00:33:48.970 been is where they're always will be. And it's 00:33:48.970 --> 00:33:50.549 not possible to know otherwise unless you're 00:33:50.549 --> 00:33:52.470 told by somebody. Right, and somebody has to 00:33:52.470 --> 00:33:54.250 tell you those things. And it's not like I always 00:33:54.250 --> 00:33:57.849 want to go back 50 years to the ideal. world 00:33:57.849 --> 00:34:00.309 of the 1950s, which we know were not as idyllic 00:34:00.309 --> 00:34:02.250 as we thought they were. The marketing campaign 00:34:02.250 --> 00:34:04.529 was idyllic. But there are some things that we 00:34:04.529 --> 00:34:08.050 have to continually teach our children and other 00:34:08.050 --> 00:34:10.690 people that they seem to have forgotten. It was 00:34:10.690 --> 00:34:13.570 funny last night when I was perusing your book 00:34:13.570 --> 00:34:16.389 as best as I could. I went right back to the 00:34:16.389 --> 00:34:18.840 Boy Scouts. And I said, oh, yeah, I got to be 00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:22.059 trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, 00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:26.340 kind, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent. 00:34:26.360 --> 00:34:29.280 Right. And I said, now, that's not a bad motto 00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:33.119 to follow. If we could all just do that and respect 00:34:33.119 --> 00:34:36.239 each other, because we come from so many diverse 00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:39.079 backgrounds. Really, the only thing we've got 00:34:39.079 --> 00:34:41.420 going for us is that we're all able to live in 00:34:41.420 --> 00:34:48.480 a unified country somehow without violence, excessive 00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:51.039 violence all over the place, one group against 00:34:51.039 --> 00:34:53.059 another. And I think that that's something that 00:34:53.059 --> 00:34:55.219 we have to keep America to be aware of, that 00:34:55.219 --> 00:34:58.659 you should be proud and just so excited by this 00:34:58.659 --> 00:35:00.760 experiment that's been going on for over 200 00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:04.199 years that it's still working. And that with 00:35:04.199 --> 00:35:07.820 a little more effort on our parts, that we can 00:35:07.820 --> 00:35:10.460 help these children, we can help them rise up 00:35:10.460 --> 00:35:15.050 out of this poverty. You got it if they just 00:35:15.050 --> 00:35:17.530 had some semblance of respect and dignity as 00:35:17.530 --> 00:35:19.250 you mentioned earlier I think and I know that 00:35:19.250 --> 00:35:22.269 your book is full of these These yeah, it's all 00:35:22.269 --> 00:35:25.869 stories. We use a storytelling method and this 00:35:25.869 --> 00:35:29.489 is what we have to do with America's youth We 00:35:29.489 --> 00:35:31.570 have to be welcoming to all of these different 00:35:31.570 --> 00:35:33.289 cultures that are out there Maybe make a little 00:35:33.289 --> 00:35:35.670 more effort to find out what they're about, right? 00:35:36.070 --> 00:35:38.329 Because really everybody in the world really 00:35:38.329 --> 00:35:40.349 only wants a couple of things and that's safety 00:35:40.349 --> 00:35:43.650 for their family a roof over their head and Yes. 00:35:43.690 --> 00:35:46.570 And to be left alone. Beyond that, if you've 00:35:46.570 --> 00:35:49.409 got those basics, there's very little reason 00:35:49.409 --> 00:35:53.389 to rise up and squawk and cause a crisis. In 00:35:53.389 --> 00:35:56.320 fact, grievance is the underlying... component 00:35:56.320 --> 00:35:59.400 of any insurgency or terrorist activity. What 00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:02.320 I argue is that grievances are perceived. I think 00:36:02.320 --> 00:36:04.039 any of us can tell that. You know, you walk into 00:36:04.039 --> 00:36:06.239 the office and, you know, Bob and Dale are talking 00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:08.599 and somebody had a bad night, didn't sleep well. 00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:10.840 Right. Well, then he might be a little surly 00:36:10.840 --> 00:36:12.719 and the other person can choose to interpret 00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:15.239 that one of many ways. One can be, that guy's 00:36:15.239 --> 00:36:17.860 a real jerk. But because you have a long -standing 00:36:17.860 --> 00:36:20.239 relationship, because relationship is the foundation 00:36:20.239 --> 00:36:23.679 of understanding, you know, you probably give 00:36:23.679 --> 00:36:25.139 the benefit of the doubt saying, that's not... 00:36:25.099 --> 00:36:27.820 like him. That's not how he would normally behave. 00:36:28.280 --> 00:36:30.360 So I think it's important that we understand 00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:32.079 that the more we can build said relationships, 00:36:32.219 --> 00:36:34.159 which means communication, which means dialogue, 00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:36.619 interfaith dialogue, intercultural dialogue, 00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:39.000 which is not a natural state for us. We tend, 00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:40.519 you know, birds of a feather flock together. 00:36:41.539 --> 00:36:43.219 But I just think it's so important that if we 00:36:43.219 --> 00:36:47.179 can make that little extra effort to learn about 00:36:47.179 --> 00:36:50.260 these different groups so maybe we can understand 00:36:50.260 --> 00:36:52.860 what their grievances might be. Precisely. And 00:36:52.860 --> 00:36:55.369 what the misunderstanding is. What's the big 00:36:55.369 --> 00:36:57.730 misunderstanding? There are huge misunderstandings. 00:36:57.789 --> 00:37:00.250 I'll give you a couple of examples. This is a 00:37:00.250 --> 00:37:02.849 hard topic, but I think it's a military channel. 00:37:03.030 --> 00:37:04.690 People can understand it. They talked about the 00:37:04.690 --> 00:37:06.809 Medal of Honor a moment ago. One of my favorite 00:37:06.809 --> 00:37:10.329 anecdotes about misunderstanding is that an A 00:37:10.329 --> 00:37:12.829 -Team, a special forces team I was working with, 00:37:13.150 --> 00:37:16.210 went in and took down a bad guy, captured him, 00:37:16.409 --> 00:37:18.050 got ready to leave. They had him zip -tied ready 00:37:18.050 --> 00:37:20.570 to leave in Iraq. And when they were leaving, 00:37:20.869 --> 00:37:23.679 the wife of the man told the interpreter with 00:37:23.679 --> 00:37:26.739 the team the insurgents then she wouldn't use 00:37:26.739 --> 00:37:28.139 that word of course she called them the foreigners 00:37:28.139 --> 00:37:30.159 the foreign men which means the guys that came 00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:31.940 from other parts of iraq or from other countries 00:37:31.940 --> 00:37:34.929 nearby but she said them What she revealed was 00:37:34.929 --> 00:37:37.210 their message, their campaign. Their information 00:37:37.210 --> 00:37:38.690 operations are constant. We're doing it right 00:37:38.690 --> 00:37:40.570 now. We're communicating. We're sharing information. 00:37:41.150 --> 00:37:43.269 There can be nefarious purposes behind it. All 00:37:43.269 --> 00:37:45.010 the way up to the dark side is called PSYOP, 00:37:45.110 --> 00:37:46.849 or psychological operation, where we twist the 00:37:46.849 --> 00:37:50.369 truth and even lie sometimes. But most information 00:37:50.369 --> 00:37:52.769 is about sharing public relations. She said, 00:37:53.110 --> 00:37:55.030 the foreign men told us that whenever the Americans 00:37:55.030 --> 00:37:56.789 came to get our husbands, they would rape the 00:37:56.789 --> 00:38:00.809 wife. And the interpreter said, oh. Oh and he 00:38:00.809 --> 00:38:03.510 told the captain leading this team and the young 00:38:03.510 --> 00:38:05.269 the young leader of the team the 18 leader said 00:38:05.269 --> 00:38:08.050 tell the lady to tell all of her friends everything 00:38:08.050 --> 00:38:10.809 that happened the whole truth if we're too rough 00:38:10.809 --> 00:38:12.809 with her husband if we broke her favorite lamp 00:38:12.809 --> 00:38:16.110 tell them that and tell them what didn't happen 00:38:16.110 --> 00:38:18.329 because that's important because they'll believe 00:38:18.329 --> 00:38:20.789 her but they won't believe us dropping leaflets 00:38:20.789 --> 00:38:22.889 from the sky saying Americans won't rape you 00:38:22.889 --> 00:38:25.710 right we have to share and that's that's a similar 00:38:26.519 --> 00:38:28.760 propaganda method that that's been used for years 00:38:28.760 --> 00:38:31.679 and years is that the you know in our case you 00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:33.280 know the americans are going to come in and just 00:38:33.280 --> 00:38:35.320 rape and pillage you know i think we're the fight 00:38:35.320 --> 00:38:38.599 because actually it actually co -ops local men 00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:40.260 if you're afraid that's going to happen to your 00:38:40.260 --> 00:38:42.699 wife you might fight to resist when the americans 00:38:42.699 --> 00:38:44.699 come into your house even though you're a florist 00:38:44.699 --> 00:38:48.900 or an economist of some kind not an insurgent 00:38:50.309 --> 00:38:52.329 I'm sorry we didn't get to have a full hour to 00:38:52.329 --> 00:38:53.869 talk about this and I'm sure that Rob, we're 00:38:53.869 --> 00:38:55.590 going to have you back on the program sometime 00:38:55.590 --> 00:38:57.869 in the future to talk about the book and let's 00:38:57.869 --> 00:38:59.730 quickly go. The book is Powerful Peace. Where 00:38:59.730 --> 00:39:02.630 can they get it? Easiest, well anywhere, literally 00:39:02.630 --> 00:39:04.289 anywhere you can get books, you can get Powerful 00:39:04.289 --> 00:39:06.630 Peace. Every version of soft copy exists. We 00:39:06.630 --> 00:39:09.829 have Nook, Koby, Sony, iBooks, the whole deal, 00:39:10.369 --> 00:39:13.170 Kindle of course. So Amazon, Barnes & Noble, 00:39:13.429 --> 00:39:16.030 the stores, the online sources and at PowerfulPeace 00:39:16.030 --> 00:39:47.320 .net. www .powerfulpeace .net is helping build 00:39:47.320 --> 00:39:50.780 one to provide to schools, to walk them through 00:39:50.780 --> 00:39:52.300 the same curriculum that was done by my friend 00:39:52.300 --> 00:39:55.389 Jamie Poland in Kentucky a few months ago. Okay, 00:39:55.489 --> 00:39:58.409 you mentioned that this is being offered to classrooms 00:39:58.409 --> 00:40:00.170 and schools around the country. Exactly, as an 00:40:00.170 --> 00:40:03.010 information process. The kids in Jamie's class 00:40:03.010 --> 00:40:05.449 came out of a Silver Week curriculum she'd built 00:40:05.449 --> 00:40:08.050 out of the manuscript, in fact, and she said 00:40:08.050 --> 00:40:10.269 that they told her they were changed people. 00:40:10.530 --> 00:40:12.409 They didn't care about skin color, they didn't 00:40:12.409 --> 00:40:14.590 care about background or nationality, they didn't 00:40:14.590 --> 00:40:16.610 care about boys and girls, or the kid who's a 00:40:16.610 --> 00:40:19.110 little nerdy, you know, the kid that gets bullied 00:40:19.110 --> 00:40:22.539 a lot, they became... bigger people and their 00:40:22.539 --> 00:40:24.500 parents wrote Jamie letters. I'm going to go 00:40:24.500 --> 00:40:26.539 stop down and see them. I'm really excited about 00:40:26.539 --> 00:40:28.920 that. Monday I get to see Barron County Schools, 00:40:29.059 --> 00:40:30.840 get to see Jamie and her, all the peace hawks 00:40:30.840 --> 00:40:33.719 we call them because they've helped us really 00:40:33.719 --> 00:40:35.619 break some serious ground in educating youth 00:40:35.619 --> 00:40:38.000 on powerful peace. Okay, well Rob Dubois, thank 00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:40.380 you so much for being on Veterans Radio and filling 00:40:40.380 --> 00:40:44.519 in almost as much time as we did have. We'll 00:40:44.519 --> 00:40:46.659 be back next week talking about women in the 00:40:46.659 --> 00:40:49.360 military hopefully and Can they get a hold of 00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:51.500 Captain Coffee if we can and get him back on 00:40:51.500 --> 00:40:54.900 at a future date? And I don't know what, Bob, 00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:57.139 what have you got going? Well, we're going to 00:40:57.139 --> 00:41:00.980 be talking about Syria. Definitely a very hot 00:41:00.980 --> 00:41:04.119 spot in the world. We're also going to be talking 00:41:04.119 --> 00:41:07.179 about North Korea. I'm hoping to get Dr. Rebecca 00:41:07.179 --> 00:41:11.300 Grant back on. We had started a series on North 00:41:11.300 --> 00:41:13.519 Korea and what will be the Air Force response 00:41:13.519 --> 00:41:16.190 to the threat. Okay, okay. Coming up. Coming 00:41:16.190 --> 00:41:19.309 up on Veterans Radio. Go to our website. Check 00:41:19.309 --> 00:41:21.309 our website in the future and send us your email 00:41:21.309 --> 00:41:23.289 if you want to get notified by us of what's going 00:41:23.289 --> 00:41:27.110 on in the world. Until next week, you are dismissed. 00:41:38.860 --> 00:41:41.400 All views and opinions expressed on this program 00:41:41.400 --> 00:41:44.000 are not necessarily of Veterans Radio or this 00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:46.880 station. Veterans Radio is a production of Veterans 00:41:46.880 --> 00:41:48.019 Radio LLC.