WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.580 Veterans Radio is dedicated to all the men and 00:00:02.580 --> 00:00:04.459 women who have served or are currently serving 00:00:04.459 --> 00:00:07.099 in the Armed Forces of the United States of America. 00:00:27.440 --> 00:00:36.579 And now, here's your host, Dale Thromberg. And 00:00:36.579 --> 00:00:39.380 good morning, American. Welcome to Veterans Radio. 00:00:39.520 --> 00:00:41.880 This is another one of our special programs with 00:00:41.880 --> 00:00:45.359 our new host here on Veterans Radio, which is 00:00:45.359 --> 00:00:47.399 Dwight Zimmerman. And Dwight is on the phone 00:00:47.399 --> 00:00:50.799 talking to us live from Brooklyn, New York. Good 00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:53.060 morning, Dwight. Good morning, Dale. Glad to 00:00:53.060 --> 00:00:55.340 be here. Well, it's going to be your program 00:00:55.340 --> 00:00:57.340 today, so kind of give us a little profile of 00:00:57.340 --> 00:01:00.500 what's coming up after our first break. I will 00:01:00.500 --> 00:01:05.760 be happy to. I'm really happy with our guest 00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:08.980 today, Craig Simons. He's a distinguished historian. 00:01:09.280 --> 00:01:12.900 He wrote a thrilling account of a pivotal battle 00:01:12.900 --> 00:01:16.420 in World War II, the Battle of Midway. And we 00:01:16.420 --> 00:01:19.819 have New York Times bestselling author Larry 00:01:19.819 --> 00:01:21.920 Bond, who's going to be talking about his exciting 00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:26.420 new book. exit plan, which you would swear was 00:01:26.420 --> 00:01:28.500 torn from today's headlines, because it involves 00:01:28.500 --> 00:01:33.579 Navy SEALs, Iran, and a nuclear weapons program. 00:01:34.599 --> 00:01:37.019 Well, it's really exciting. I can't wait to hear 00:01:37.019 --> 00:01:39.200 both of those interviews, Dwight. But I'll talk 00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:41.299 a little bit about an event that occurred yesterday 00:01:41.299 --> 00:01:44.700 in New York City, and that was the arrival of 00:01:44.700 --> 00:01:47.459 the Space Shuttle Enterprise. Yes, that was very 00:01:47.459 --> 00:01:51.640 exciting for the whole city. Today's papers are 00:01:51.640 --> 00:01:53.819 splashed with coverage all over the place on 00:01:53.819 --> 00:01:58.900 it. Of course, it was obviously a big topic in 00:01:58.900 --> 00:02:03.920 the television broadcasts last night. It was 00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:08.240 quite exciting. We had people lined up. They 00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:11.479 did a flyover of the Statue of Liberty, so the 00:02:11.479 --> 00:02:14.219 people on Liberty Island had a ringside seat 00:02:14.219 --> 00:02:22.379 to the event. aircraft landed at JFK Airport 00:02:22.379 --> 00:02:29.360 and a barge will take the space shuttle up to 00:02:29.360 --> 00:02:34.280 the Hudson River where it will be at its new 00:02:34.280 --> 00:02:38.759 home. Is it going to be on the Intrepid? On the 00:02:38.759 --> 00:02:40.879 Intrepid, thank you, yes. Okay, that's alright. 00:02:40.939 --> 00:02:42.819 I'm still anxious to go and see the Intrepid. 00:02:42.860 --> 00:02:45.460 I've been told I have to go and see this. Yes, 00:02:45.460 --> 00:02:48.819 you do. I've been there a couple of times. The 00:02:48.819 --> 00:02:53.580 first time was shortly after we had Mementos 00:02:53.580 --> 00:02:56.919 from the Iraq War, and they had a wonderful display 00:02:56.919 --> 00:03:00.639 there. They've got an incredible array of aircraft 00:03:00.639 --> 00:03:05.419 and helicopters. It's wonderful. And then they 00:03:05.419 --> 00:03:09.039 did this massive restoration and reconstruction, 00:03:09.819 --> 00:03:15.460 and it is something. get into flight simulators, 00:03:15.900 --> 00:03:22.560 play games, a wide range of interactive displays. 00:03:23.379 --> 00:03:26.699 They've really done a great job. Well, I encourage 00:03:26.699 --> 00:03:29.819 all of our listeners to go and look for information 00:03:29.819 --> 00:03:32.919 on the USS Intrepid. It's in New York Harbor. 00:03:33.319 --> 00:03:35.439 And also to go, there's some great pictures online 00:03:35.439 --> 00:03:37.539 about the space shuttle enterprises that arise 00:03:37.539 --> 00:03:42.099 in New York. It's a fascinating story. I'm hoping 00:03:42.099 --> 00:03:44.680 that the space program will continue on to bigger 00:03:44.680 --> 00:03:46.960 and better things because it certainly was a 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:48.860 great program and really showed what we could 00:03:48.860 --> 00:03:51.460 do here as a country once we get behind something. 00:03:53.539 --> 00:03:56.659 You got that right. I know, I know I do. We're 00:03:56.659 --> 00:03:58.219 going to be taking our first break right now 00:03:58.219 --> 00:04:01.300 and when we come back, White will be hosting 00:04:01.300 --> 00:04:04.340 today and so I'll be quiet after that and we'll 00:04:04.340 --> 00:04:06.580 be right back after these messages. You're listening 00:04:06.580 --> 00:04:10.319 to Veterans Radio. Well, we're back at AtEase, 00:04:10.419 --> 00:04:14.360 the program that we talk about military themed 00:04:14.360 --> 00:04:19.420 stories and I am happy to welcome my first guest 00:04:19.420 --> 00:04:24.959 today, Craig Simons. Craig, how are you? I'm 00:04:24.959 --> 00:04:28.540 great, good morning, Greg. Yes, great to have 00:04:28.540 --> 00:04:31.740 you on the program. Thank you, glad to be here. 00:04:32.379 --> 00:04:37.199 Okay, so the battle of Midway. This is obviously 00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:41.740 a very important battle, and your book is just 00:04:41.740 --> 00:04:44.240 absolutely riveting. But the fascinating thing 00:04:44.240 --> 00:04:46.399 is that while you're one of our nation's most 00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:49.860 respected authorities on the Civil War, you shared 00:04:49.860 --> 00:04:53.100 the Lincoln Prize in 2009 with James McPherson. 00:04:53.500 --> 00:04:56.519 Your book was Lincoln and his admirals. And now 00:04:56.519 --> 00:04:59.060 you jump into the next century and do a book 00:04:59.060 --> 00:05:03.899 about a pivotal naval battle, World War II. What 00:05:03.899 --> 00:05:07.689 prompted this? Well, that's, yeah, other people 00:05:07.689 --> 00:05:09.850 have commented upon that. You're absolutely right. 00:05:10.250 --> 00:05:12.829 I have been doing research on the Civil War for 00:05:12.829 --> 00:05:15.449 nearly four decades and to jump into World War 00:05:15.449 --> 00:05:18.870 II does seem perhaps like I'm jumping a century, 00:05:18.930 --> 00:05:21.629 but I will remind you and our listeners, too, 00:05:21.649 --> 00:05:24.050 that I did teach naval history to midshipmen 00:05:24.050 --> 00:05:26.610 at the Naval Academy for almost four decades 00:05:26.610 --> 00:05:28.290 and we certainly covered the Battle of Midway 00:05:28.290 --> 00:05:30.689 there. In addition to which, I have to be honest 00:05:30.689 --> 00:05:33.250 and tell you that my editor at Oxford University 00:05:33.250 --> 00:05:36.089 Press, which published both books, after the 00:05:36.089 --> 00:05:38.230 Lincoln book came out and was so well received 00:05:38.230 --> 00:05:40.730 asked me what I wanted to do next and I said 00:05:40.730 --> 00:05:43.389 I would like to at least think about a project 00:05:43.389 --> 00:05:47.009 in which I examined Franklin Roosevelt as the 00:05:47.009 --> 00:05:49.089 commander in chief in World War II in the same 00:05:49.089 --> 00:05:51.930 way I examined Lincoln as commander in chief 00:05:51.930 --> 00:05:54.170 in the Civil War and they said well that's a 00:05:54.170 --> 00:05:57.129 terrific idea but we would also like you to do 00:05:57.129 --> 00:06:00.069 a book in our series called Pivotal Moments in 00:06:00.069 --> 00:06:02.550 American History and clearly one of those pivotal 00:06:02.550 --> 00:06:05.519 moments was the Battle of Midway. Well, initially 00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:07.959 I said, well, I'm not sure that's needed. I mean, 00:06:07.980 --> 00:06:09.879 there are good books on the Battle of Midway 00:06:09.879 --> 00:06:13.860 already. Walter Lord wrote a classic book on 00:06:13.860 --> 00:06:17.139 the Battle of Midway, and Gordon Prang, only 00:06:17.139 --> 00:06:19.560 a decade or two after that, wrote another great 00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:21.240 book. So are you sure there's room for one more? 00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:24.079 Well, of course, my editor knows exactly how 00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:26.139 to get to me. He flattered me, said, ah, yes, 00:06:26.139 --> 00:06:29.600 but not written by you. So I ended up writing 00:06:29.600 --> 00:06:31.860 yet another book on the Battle of Midway. Man, 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:35.009 enjoyed very much doing it. I think found some 00:06:35.009 --> 00:06:40.230 new things. You're right. Walter Lord's incredible 00:06:40.230 --> 00:06:45.329 victory book on the battle has been a benchmark. 00:06:45.829 --> 00:06:49.310 How is your book different from his and the earlier 00:06:49.310 --> 00:06:53.910 other counts? One of the advantages I had was 00:06:53.910 --> 00:06:56.269 the declassification of materials that were still 00:06:56.269 --> 00:06:59.350 secret at the time that Walter Lord wrote. uh... 00:06:59.350 --> 00:07:01.410 walter lord it was it not only great historian 00:07:01.410 --> 00:07:03.769 but a great wordsmith as well in fact i suppose 00:07:03.769 --> 00:07:06.389 that the greatest compliment to him is that if 00:07:06.389 --> 00:07:09.649 you visit the uh... world war two memorial in 00:07:09.649 --> 00:07:12.149 washington dc and i hope everyone who's listening 00:07:12.149 --> 00:07:15.110 has an opportunity to do that uh... you'll notice 00:07:15.110 --> 00:07:18.649 that on the pacific theater side of that uh... 00:07:18.649 --> 00:07:21.750 impressive memorial is up couple sentences from 00:07:21.750 --> 00:07:25.170 walter lord's book carved into marble and letters 00:07:25.170 --> 00:07:27.550 six inches high now there's no greater testimonial 00:07:27.550 --> 00:07:29.889 to an historian than to have that happen. So 00:07:29.889 --> 00:07:33.149 it's true. But look at the title of Walter Lord's 00:07:33.149 --> 00:07:35.949 book, Incredible Victory, and then look at the 00:07:35.949 --> 00:07:39.149 title of Gordon Prang's book, Miracle at Midway. 00:07:39.209 --> 00:07:43.269 Both of these books talk about the astonishing 00:07:43.269 --> 00:07:46.569 turnaround in that critical five minutes from 00:07:46.569 --> 00:07:50.649 10 .25 until 10 .30 in the morning on June 4th, 00:07:50.670 --> 00:07:53.769 1942, when the whole history, not only of the 00:07:53.769 --> 00:07:56.769 Pacific War, but the history of the world, tilted. 00:07:56.970 --> 00:07:59.509 on the fulcrum of the Battle of Midway. It seemed 00:07:59.509 --> 00:08:02.829 so providential, so miraculous that they attributed 00:08:02.829 --> 00:08:06.670 that to a large extent to circumstance and opportunity. 00:08:07.389 --> 00:08:12.209 I tried to look at what individuals, what personalities, 00:08:12.610 --> 00:08:15.310 what human beings and the decisions that they 00:08:15.310 --> 00:08:18.329 made and the actions that they took brought about 00:08:18.329 --> 00:08:21.009 that miracle, that providential turnaround. I'm 00:08:21.009 --> 00:08:25.250 looking at the people. That's one perhaps not 00:08:25.250 --> 00:08:28.350 entirely new. but somewhat different approach 00:08:28.350 --> 00:08:30.870 that I took in my book. And then, as I mentioned, 00:08:31.269 --> 00:08:33.590 there's new information that's available, information 00:08:33.590 --> 00:08:35.889 that wasn't available to Walter Lord or to Gordon 00:08:35.889 --> 00:08:39.429 Plang. Some of it provided by two superb scholars 00:08:39.429 --> 00:08:41.250 who looked at the Japanese side of the battle, 00:08:41.730 --> 00:08:44.090 Anthony Tolley and John Partial, who in their 00:08:44.090 --> 00:08:47.029 book, Shattered Sword, great title by the way, 00:08:47.250 --> 00:08:49.789 looked at the Japanese side and what was their 00:08:49.789 --> 00:08:51.990 motivation. How did this come about? What were 00:08:51.990 --> 00:08:54.289 the personalities of those individuals? So I 00:08:54.289 --> 00:08:56.269 tried to bring all of these things together. 00:08:56.480 --> 00:08:59.480 and tell the story in the hope of a fresh way 00:08:59.480 --> 00:09:02.820 to expose not only what happened, but who did 00:09:02.820 --> 00:09:06.299 it and why they did it. Why did the Japanese 00:09:06.299 --> 00:09:10.000 go after Midway in the first place? Well, that's 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:13.320 interesting. Midway was officially the target 00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:15.759 of the operation, but it wasn't really the objective, 00:09:15.779 --> 00:09:19.080 and I'll explain what I mean by that. Midway 00:09:19.080 --> 00:09:23.340 was a tiny little two -island atoll, 1 ,100 miles 00:09:23.340 --> 00:09:28.629 north -northwest Honolulu, and really just an 00:09:28.629 --> 00:09:32.990 outpost for America. As a target, it's not that 00:09:32.990 --> 00:09:34.769 important a place. It does have an airfield on 00:09:34.769 --> 00:09:37.610 it, so it's a useful outpost for the United States. 00:09:38.210 --> 00:09:40.690 But the reason the Japanese went after it was 00:09:40.690 --> 00:09:43.070 that Yamamoto, who had planned the attack on 00:09:43.070 --> 00:09:46.409 Pearl Harbor, was excruciatingly disappointed 00:09:46.409 --> 00:09:49.250 not to have found and destroyed the American 00:09:49.250 --> 00:09:51.730 aircraft carriers in that strike on December 00:09:51.730 --> 00:09:56.600 7, 1941. Since then, in January and in February, 00:09:56.940 --> 00:09:59.460 the United States had used those carriers to 00:09:59.460 --> 00:10:01.759 target Japanese outposts, and the Marshalls, 00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:04.279 and the Gilberts, and elsewhere. What Yalimodu 00:10:04.279 --> 00:10:07.320 wanted to do was to attack an American base, 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:10.320 in this case Midway, with a large enough force 00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:13.600 that the American carriers would feel compelled 00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:17.399 to come out from their base at Pearl Harbor into 00:10:17.399 --> 00:10:21.509 deep water. The Japanese carriers could then 00:10:21.509 --> 00:10:23.769 pounce on them and destroy them. The real objective 00:10:23.769 --> 00:10:27.490 in this campaign was to find and destroy the 00:10:27.490 --> 00:10:29.409 American aircraft carriers. That's what it was 00:10:29.409 --> 00:10:32.590 all about. How did the Americans learn about 00:10:32.590 --> 00:10:37.169 this? Well, that's a great part of the story, 00:10:37.370 --> 00:10:39.370 absolutely. And Walter Word knew a little of 00:10:39.370 --> 00:10:41.210 this, but not very much because it was still 00:10:41.210 --> 00:10:44.529 classified. Gordon Prang knew more of it. But 00:10:44.529 --> 00:10:46.090 there's been a lot of information that's come 00:10:46.090 --> 00:10:48.049 out just in the last couple of decades, really 00:10:48.049 --> 00:10:52.090 declassified only in the 1970s, that the United 00:10:52.090 --> 00:10:55.730 States had broken a significant portion of what's 00:10:55.730 --> 00:10:58.529 called the five -number code, the Japanese operational 00:10:58.529 --> 00:11:00.830 code. Now we've been reading their diplomatic 00:11:00.830 --> 00:11:03.289 code for a couple of months, but the operational 00:11:03.289 --> 00:11:05.950 code was extraordinarily complicated, and we 00:11:05.950 --> 00:11:08.350 didn't really crack the code there until the 00:11:08.350 --> 00:11:11.649 early spring of 1942. And the guy who gets most 00:11:11.649 --> 00:11:14.750 of the credit for this is a a commander, a Navy 00:11:14.750 --> 00:11:17.950 commander, named Rochefort, Joseph Rochefort, 00:11:18.409 --> 00:11:21.830 who commanded a team of dedicated Crip analysts, 00:11:22.049 --> 00:11:25.370 codebreakers if you would, in the basement of 00:11:25.370 --> 00:11:27.669 the 11th Naval District headquarters in Honolulu, 00:11:28.110 --> 00:11:31.210 a dark dungeon they called it, where they spent 00:11:31.210 --> 00:11:34.370 the entire day and sometimes 20 -hour days or 00:11:34.370 --> 00:11:38.009 more breaking through all the layers of secrecy 00:11:38.009 --> 00:11:40.830 that wrapped themselves around all the Japanese 00:11:40.830 --> 00:11:44.129 Naval radio messages that came out. and were 00:11:44.129 --> 00:11:47.830 able to wrinkle out just enough information from 00:11:47.830 --> 00:11:50.809 that to let Admiral Chester Nimitz know that 00:11:50.809 --> 00:11:54.090 the Japanese did intend to target Midway more 00:11:54.090 --> 00:11:57.490 or less when they were coming and more or less 00:11:57.490 --> 00:12:00.029 what strength they would be coming in. And so 00:12:00.029 --> 00:12:03.730 that advantage significantly helped even the 00:12:03.730 --> 00:12:06.269 odds. It was not, let me emphasize, it was not 00:12:06.269 --> 00:12:08.750 a complete reading of the Japanese naval messages. 00:12:09.509 --> 00:12:12.129 The extent to which we had been able to break 00:12:12.129 --> 00:12:15.070 their code has been somewhat exaggerated in popular 00:12:15.070 --> 00:12:17.889 literature. We could not read their mail. We 00:12:17.889 --> 00:12:21.870 got little bits and tiny pieces, ten percent 00:12:21.870 --> 00:12:24.850 of ten percent of the messages that they sent. 00:12:24.909 --> 00:12:27.730 So we were able to read maybe one out of a hundred 00:12:27.730 --> 00:12:30.970 words. But from that, Rochert was able to apply 00:12:30.970 --> 00:12:33.690 his understanding of Japanese culture, Japanese 00:12:33.690 --> 00:12:36.750 language, and Japanese tradition to let Admiral 00:12:36.750 --> 00:12:39.289 Nimitz know what he was pretty sure was going 00:12:39.289 --> 00:12:42.169 to happen. and that gave Nimitz sufficient confidence 00:12:42.169 --> 00:12:45.210 to resist the Japanese attack at Midway. Yes, 00:12:45.330 --> 00:12:48.570 that was one of the many fascinating aspects 00:12:48.570 --> 00:12:51.269 in your book, The Battle of Midway, that you 00:12:51.269 --> 00:12:55.230 went into great detail and depth about how Rochefort 00:12:55.230 --> 00:13:00.090 and his team cracked the code and assembled it 00:13:00.090 --> 00:13:05.730 and in some cases inferred and speculated on 00:13:05.730 --> 00:13:10.940 actions and in one respect made calculated guesses. 00:13:12.700 --> 00:13:15.539 Yes, that's true. There were a lot of blanks. 00:13:15.539 --> 00:13:17.759 If you look at a typical message that was supposedly 00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:21.720 broken, it might say something like, blank blank 00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:26.679 kaga, blank blank depart, blank blank may, blank 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:29.799 blank arrive. And from that, Rochefort and his 00:13:29.799 --> 00:13:32.820 team had to put that in the context of all the 00:13:32.820 --> 00:13:34.600 other messages, where they were coming from, 00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:37.320 how many there were, where they were going. who 00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:40.059 was sending, who was not sending. In a few cases, 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:42.080 they even were able to recognize what was known 00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:45.000 as the fist. That is the characteristic tempo 00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:49.340 of a telegrapher's signal. To know who was actually 00:13:49.340 --> 00:13:52.100 sending the message and being aware where that 00:13:52.100 --> 00:13:55.320 particular sender was stationed, they could then 00:13:55.320 --> 00:13:58.139 extrapolate what the message might mean. So there 00:13:58.139 --> 00:14:00.620 was a lot of, I hesitate to call it guesswork, 00:14:00.679 --> 00:14:02.720 but I suppose there's no better word for it. 00:14:02.820 --> 00:14:06.159 I would say informed guesswork. that Rochefort 00:14:06.159 --> 00:14:08.600 and his team applied to what they were able to 00:14:08.600 --> 00:14:12.139 break. So it was not simply a matter of breaking 00:14:12.139 --> 00:14:14.299 the code and reading the mail. There was a lot 00:14:14.299 --> 00:14:18.320 of intensive hard work involved. Yes, there was 00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:22.399 a breakthrough of sorts when Rochefort being 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:24.539 challenged about, because there was some controversy 00:14:24.539 --> 00:14:28.059 of whether or not the Japanese objective was 00:14:28.059 --> 00:14:30.860 centered around Midway or some other location. 00:14:32.919 --> 00:14:37.240 Correct me on this, but didn't a signal go up 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:41.320 from Pearl Harbor to Midway say, send us a message 00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:45.000 that your water treatment system is broken down? 00:14:46.360 --> 00:14:48.460 Yeah, that's true. What had happened is Rochefort 00:14:48.460 --> 00:14:51.039 and his team knew. They were absolutely certain 00:14:51.039 --> 00:14:53.179 Midway was the target. They had no doubt in their 00:14:53.179 --> 00:14:56.100 minds. But the problem was that his superiors 00:14:56.100 --> 00:14:59.120 in Washington, the Naval Communications Office 00:14:59.120 --> 00:15:02.460 and the Intelligence Office there, known as OP20G, 00:15:02.679 --> 00:15:05.720 and run by a Captain Redmond. He was not so sure. 00:15:05.779 --> 00:15:08.519 Redmond was not a cryptanalyst. He was an administrator. 00:15:08.940 --> 00:15:11.159 He looked at this message traffic and said, boy, 00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:15.360 that really doesn't say much to me. Are you sure? 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:17.399 I really think it might be something else. Maybe 00:15:17.399 --> 00:15:20.120 it's the West Coast. What if it's San Francisco 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:23.700 and you're wrong? And so what Rochefort wanted 00:15:23.700 --> 00:15:26.440 to do was demonstrate, not for his own benefit, 00:15:26.500 --> 00:15:30.039 because he was pretty sure, but to demonstrate 00:15:30.039 --> 00:15:33.409 for Captain Redmond's benefit. that it was in 00:15:33.409 --> 00:15:36.350 fact Midway. The Japanese had used the code phrase 00:15:36.350 --> 00:15:39.610 AF in referring to the target of their attack. 00:15:40.169 --> 00:15:43.549 And what he needed was information to prove AF 00:15:43.549 --> 00:15:47.309 was Midway. So you're right, they sent a request 00:15:47.309 --> 00:15:49.970 out by submarine cable, where the Japanese could 00:15:49.970 --> 00:15:52.250 not read it, to Midway saying, let's send us 00:15:52.250 --> 00:15:56.289 a radio message in the clear saying that your 00:15:56.289 --> 00:15:58.610 distillers have broken down and you are running 00:15:58.610 --> 00:16:02.299 low on fresh water. And then he waited. Sure 00:16:02.299 --> 00:16:05.240 enough, hours later, a Japanese message went 00:16:05.240 --> 00:16:09.519 out saying, AF is short of water. Well, now he 00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:11.440 had the smoking gun. Now he could demonstrate 00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:14.960 to the doubters in Washington that AF was indeed 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:18.840 Midway and that he was justified in predicting 00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:23.139 that that was the Japanese target. Ironically, 00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:27.360 Rochefort, instead of getting praise and a medal 00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:30.529 for his role in what wound up being an American 00:16:30.529 --> 00:16:33.710 victory, actually wound up being punished for 00:16:33.710 --> 00:16:37.330 his efforts, though not by Nimitz. What can you 00:16:37.330 --> 00:16:41.210 tell us about this? Well, punish is a strong 00:16:41.210 --> 00:16:43.509 word, but I suppose not an inappropriate one. 00:16:44.289 --> 00:16:46.830 Rochefort, like many brilliant people, was a 00:16:46.830 --> 00:16:53.690 difficult personality. He was annoyed that people 00:16:53.690 --> 00:16:56.029 would not believe him when he gave his predictions. 00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:58.639 He believed that the folks in Washington had 00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:01.700 no business looking over his shoulder, so he 00:17:01.700 --> 00:17:05.059 brought a little of this upon himself by his 00:17:05.059 --> 00:17:08.299 attitude. But it is absolutely true that the 00:17:08.299 --> 00:17:11.420 Op 20G, his supervisors in Washington found him 00:17:11.420 --> 00:17:15.619 annoying, shared that annoyance with the Chief 00:17:15.619 --> 00:17:18.039 of Naval Operations, Admiral Ernest J. King, 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:21.700 and when Nimitz recommended Rochefort for a medal 00:17:21.700 --> 00:17:24.390 and a promotion, as a result of the extraordinary 00:17:24.390 --> 00:17:26.690 work that he had done in getting the United States 00:17:26.690 --> 00:17:29.069 Navy ready for the Battle of Midway. King turned 00:17:29.069 --> 00:17:32.490 it down. He said, no, this was a work done by 00:17:32.490 --> 00:17:35.289 a team of men. You don't get a medal for people 00:17:35.289 --> 00:17:38.690 just doing their job, which is sort of an absurd 00:17:38.690 --> 00:17:41.730 statement to make. We do it all the time if they 00:17:41.730 --> 00:17:44.150 do their job extraordinarily well, which surely 00:17:44.150 --> 00:17:47.289 Rochefort did. And worse than that, Rochefort 00:17:47.289 --> 00:17:50.769 was reassigned from intelligence work. into construction 00:17:50.769 --> 00:17:52.650 work. He was actually sent to the San Francisco 00:17:52.650 --> 00:17:55.869 Bay area to construct a floating dry dock, which 00:17:55.869 --> 00:17:58.230 he did quite well. He supervised the construction 00:17:58.230 --> 00:18:00.490 of that. And when the war came to an end, he 00:18:00.490 --> 00:18:05.049 was actually back in intelligence working on 00:18:05.049 --> 00:18:08.150 the plans for the invasion of mainland Japan, 00:18:08.190 --> 00:18:11.470 which, thank God, we never had to do. But you're 00:18:11.470 --> 00:18:13.630 right, he'd never got the medal he deserved while 00:18:13.630 --> 00:18:16.089 he was alive, although there is a happy ending 00:18:16.089 --> 00:18:20.130 of sorts to the story, and that is in 1986. He 00:18:20.130 --> 00:18:25.109 was awarded the Distinguished Service Medal posthumously 00:18:25.109 --> 00:18:28.589 by President Reagan. So he did finally get the 00:18:28.589 --> 00:18:31.430 recognition, the public recognition that he deserved 00:18:31.430 --> 00:18:33.450 and had earned, but not during his lifetime. 00:18:35.589 --> 00:18:39.329 Well, at least there was that. One part about 00:18:39.329 --> 00:18:43.589 the battle itself that really stood out for me 00:18:43.589 --> 00:18:46.250 is the fact that the senior commanders on both 00:18:46.250 --> 00:18:49.450 sides, Nagomal, Fletcher, and Spruance, Well, 00:18:49.450 --> 00:18:51.890 they were black shoe admirals, you know, in command 00:18:51.890 --> 00:18:56.130 of carrier fleets. That's true, and this came 00:18:56.130 --> 00:18:58.630 about by accident. You know, it was not supposed 00:18:58.630 --> 00:19:01.150 to be that way. For those of our listeners who 00:19:01.150 --> 00:19:02.910 aren't aware, although I suppose most of you 00:19:02.910 --> 00:19:06.690 probably are, the surface, the warfare communities 00:19:06.690 --> 00:19:09.390 within the Navy were not completely distinct 00:19:09.390 --> 00:19:11.490 from one another, but they did have special scare 00:19:11.490 --> 00:19:14.210 sets. And those who were pilots who had earned 00:19:14.210 --> 00:19:17.259 their gold wings were known as brown shoes. and 00:19:17.259 --> 00:19:19.500 that is to say they knew not only how to fly 00:19:19.500 --> 00:19:24.640 but what were their particular needs of air squadrons 00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:27.519 and air groups and they were the ones who were 00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:30.000 assigned to command carriers and the most senior 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:32.299 of these was Admiral Vice Admiral Van William 00:19:32.299 --> 00:19:36.059 F. Halsey but Halsey had come down with horrible 00:19:36.059 --> 00:19:39.700 skin disease that absolutely necessitated his 00:19:39.700 --> 00:19:42.579 going into the hospital virtually on the eve 00:19:42.579 --> 00:19:45.160 of the greatest carrier battle in world history 00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:49.279 at Midway. And although he recognized the necessity 00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:51.960 for it, it must have been horribly painful, both 00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:54.559 mentally and physically, to have to turn that 00:19:54.559 --> 00:19:57.099 command over to someone else. And when Nimitz 00:19:57.099 --> 00:20:00.440 asked him, well, who can we give this to? He 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:03.539 said, well, my subordinate, Raymond Spurwitz, 00:20:03.619 --> 00:20:06.680 who commands my screen, knows all of my officers, 00:20:06.700 --> 00:20:08.720 has been operating with me for most of a year. 00:20:09.079 --> 00:20:12.160 He's the man I trust to do this. So Raymond Spurwitz, 00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:15.599 who was a cruiser destroyer man, commanded Task 00:20:15.630 --> 00:20:20.390 Force 17 of two carriers, and Frank Jack Fletcher, 00:20:20.710 --> 00:20:22.490 who had commanded in the Battle of the Coral 00:20:22.490 --> 00:20:25.609 Sea and was also a cruiser destroyer man, commanded 00:20:25.609 --> 00:20:28.930 Task Force 16 and was the senior American officer 00:20:28.930 --> 00:20:31.910 present at Midway. So the Americans were commanded 00:20:31.910 --> 00:20:34.910 by two ship drivers, as we call them in the service, 00:20:35.029 --> 00:20:37.430 that is to say surface warfare officers, with 00:20:37.430 --> 00:20:40.309 very little carrier experience. At least Frank 00:20:40.309 --> 00:20:43.130 Jack Fletcher had commanded a carrier force in 00:20:43.130 --> 00:20:45.390 the Coral Sea. But Raymond Spruance, of course, 00:20:45.690 --> 00:20:48.329 had no experience in that at all. So the Americans 00:20:48.329 --> 00:20:51.210 were being led by individuals with technically 00:20:51.210 --> 00:20:55.269 little experience in commanding carriers in battle. 00:20:57.549 --> 00:21:04.089 And Nagoma was a big gun admiral himself. Nagumo 00:21:04.089 --> 00:21:06.190 Chiriki, who commanded what the Japanese called 00:21:06.190 --> 00:21:08.950 the Kido Butai, or the Mobile Striking Force, 00:21:09.509 --> 00:21:12.769 in this case four carrier task force, He had 00:21:12.769 --> 00:21:14.710 experience, at least with carriers. Remember, 00:21:14.809 --> 00:21:16.890 Nagumo had commanded the strike on Pearl Harbor 00:21:16.890 --> 00:21:20.089 when he had six carriers. So he had not only 00:21:20.089 --> 00:21:22.009 commanded the strike on Pearl Harbor, he had 00:21:22.009 --> 00:21:24.910 then commanded the Japanese carrier force in 00:21:24.910 --> 00:21:28.450 the Indian Ocean and elsewhere. So for six months 00:21:28.450 --> 00:21:31.549 and more, he had been in command of a fast carrier 00:21:31.549 --> 00:21:33.710 strike force. So he had that experience. But 00:21:33.710 --> 00:21:37.309 his training, as you say, was in torpedoes. He 00:21:37.309 --> 00:21:41.059 was a torpedo man. The Japanese, on the other 00:21:41.059 --> 00:21:44.640 hand, didn't have quite the same division between 00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:47.359 warfare specialties that the Americans did. So, 00:21:47.460 --> 00:21:50.039 Nagumo was probably, at least in terms of experience, 00:21:51.660 --> 00:21:53.380 better prepared for the Battle of Midway than 00:21:53.380 --> 00:21:57.380 his American counterparts. Although, as things 00:21:57.380 --> 00:22:01.640 turned out, that didn't matter. Yes. Well, he 00:22:01.640 --> 00:22:05.799 seemed very rigid and also, oddly enough, reports 00:22:05.799 --> 00:22:10.170 say he wasn't much of a gambler. Well, Nagumo 00:22:10.170 --> 00:22:15.569 was a professional who played by the rules, who 00:22:15.569 --> 00:22:17.829 knew what the protocol and the doctrine was, 00:22:17.890 --> 00:22:19.849 and tried to follow that protocol and doctrine. 00:22:20.369 --> 00:22:23.309 It's very hard to second -guess Nagumo. We can 00:22:23.309 --> 00:22:26.490 do it after the fact now because he lost, and 00:22:26.490 --> 00:22:28.950 given the disparity of forces, he ought to have 00:22:28.950 --> 00:22:32.289 won. But if you find the moments where he makes 00:22:32.289 --> 00:22:35.109 specific decisions and think about now what would 00:22:35.109 --> 00:22:37.210 have been the right decision to make at that 00:22:37.210 --> 00:22:39.799 moment. It's hard to say at any given moment 00:22:39.799 --> 00:22:43.519 he makes the wrong decision. But clearly, after 00:22:43.519 --> 00:22:45.500 the fact, we can look at it and say that did 00:22:45.500 --> 00:22:48.000 not work out for him. The classic case is on 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:50.859 the morning of June 4th, when he first hears 00:22:50.859 --> 00:22:53.119 from one of the scout planes that there are American 00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:57.079 surface forces 200 miles away, and about a half 00:22:57.079 --> 00:22:59.680 hour later learns that at least one of those 00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:02.099 is an aircraft carrier. Well, now the carriers 00:23:02.099 --> 00:23:04.440 are his primary target objective. That's what 00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:08.000 he's after. One thing he could have done was 00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:11.240 launch right away. The problem was he only had 00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:15.220 36 airplanes ready to go. Out of nearly 300 that 00:23:15.220 --> 00:23:18.539 he had totally available, 285, 290, the numbers 00:23:18.539 --> 00:23:21.740 are not entirely clear. But if he launches only 00:23:21.740 --> 00:23:24.119 36 airplanes, they would have no fighter cover. 00:23:24.440 --> 00:23:27.000 They would have no cooperation from torpedo bombers. 00:23:27.059 --> 00:23:29.380 So he said, no, no, that's not a good idea. I'm 00:23:29.380 --> 00:23:31.980 going to wait. I'm going to recover the airplanes 00:23:31.980 --> 00:23:34.920 coming back from the attack on Midway. rearm 00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:37.500 and refuel those airplanes and then send off 00:23:37.500 --> 00:23:40.460 an entire coordinated strike force, and that 00:23:40.460 --> 00:23:44.480 would be better. It sure seemed so at the time, 00:23:44.660 --> 00:23:47.319 but of course, even as he made that decision, 00:23:47.700 --> 00:23:50.099 the American dive bombers were en route to his 00:23:50.099 --> 00:23:53.599 position. We're almost coming up to the break, 00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:57.119 but one thing I would like to briefly talk about 00:23:57.119 --> 00:24:00.220 is, even though accounts focus primarily on the 00:24:00.220 --> 00:24:03.380 Japanese mistakes, the Americans made a few also. 00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:07.599 Oh, a number of mistakes. You know, we look at 00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:09.619 this event and want to look back and say, you 00:24:09.619 --> 00:24:12.440 know, we did everything right. Luck was on our 00:24:12.440 --> 00:24:14.339 side. Providence was on our side. Now, whatever 00:24:14.339 --> 00:24:16.900 you want to measure that. But there were lots 00:24:16.900 --> 00:24:19.299 of mistakes made. There are mistakes in every 00:24:19.299 --> 00:24:23.099 battle, I suppose. But they really stand out 00:24:23.099 --> 00:24:25.579 here because Admiral Nimitz had gone to great 00:24:25.579 --> 00:24:28.559 extent to make sure he had three aircraft carriers 00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:32.460 available for this battle. The Yorktown was patched 00:24:32.460 --> 00:24:35.299 up and put together with failing wire and scotch 00:24:35.299 --> 00:24:37.880 tape metaphorically at least and sent out to 00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:40.019 the operation so that we would have three carriers 00:24:40.019 --> 00:24:43.160 but one of those carriers played virtually no 00:24:43.160 --> 00:24:45.839 role whatsoever in the battles on the morning 00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:48.960 of June 4th and that was the USS Hornet and the 00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:51.720 story of the USS Hornet and its air group is 00:24:51.720 --> 00:24:57.720 a very complicated perplexing difficult and in 00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:02.140 the end absolutely amazing story that I probably 00:25:02.140 --> 00:25:04.769 can't summarize and the brief time we have on 00:25:04.769 --> 00:25:07.509 the air. But I hope your readers will have the 00:25:07.509 --> 00:25:09.509 opportunity to read it in my book. How's that 00:25:09.509 --> 00:25:13.349 for a plug? That's anticipating what I would 00:25:13.349 --> 00:25:17.150 say. I've been talking with Craig Simons, the 00:25:17.150 --> 00:25:19.990 author of this excellent book, The Battle of 00:25:19.990 --> 00:25:25.230 Midway, which is coming out in paperback soon. 00:25:25.289 --> 00:25:28.460 It's out in hardcover right now. You probably 00:25:28.460 --> 00:25:30.940 will not be out in paperback until late fall, 00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:33.240 I would say October, November. It is in hardback 00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:37.059 right now. Obviously available on Amazon or at 00:25:37.059 --> 00:25:38.799 your local Barnes and Noble or our other favorite 00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:43.720 bookstore. Yes, and anyone who is interested 00:25:43.720 --> 00:25:50.400 in a gripping battle well told, it would be very 00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:52.660 well served in getting this book. That is for 00:25:52.660 --> 00:25:55.680 darn sure. Craig, you were at a conference this 00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:59.039 morning. from what I understand. I am. In fact, 00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:01.660 I was going to mention to you and to your listeners, 00:26:01.759 --> 00:26:05.339 I am standing at the ferry dock on Hatteras Inlet 00:26:05.339 --> 00:26:08.140 in North Carolina, where the weather is cold 00:26:08.140 --> 00:26:10.799 and breezy and cars are lining up to get on the 00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:13.160 ferry boat. As soon as we finish talking, I'm 00:26:13.160 --> 00:26:15.880 heading off to a conference on Flags Over Hatteras, 00:26:15.880 --> 00:26:20.480 which is about the Civil War battles at sea in 00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:22.799 the vicinity here of North Carolina. So I'm having 00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:25.420 a great time. But always good to talk to you, 00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:29.039 Dwight. I appreciate it. Yes, and it's wonderful 00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:32.819 talking with you too, Craig. I really enjoy this. 00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:37.079 I'm also going to congratulate you. I saw that 00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:40.279 Military History Quarterly selected the Battle 00:26:40.279 --> 00:26:44.519 of Midway as a best book of 2011. Wonderful honor. 00:26:44.740 --> 00:26:46.759 That's terrific. Very gratifying. Thank you. 00:26:46.920 --> 00:26:50.220 Thank you. So I'll let you get on that ferry 00:26:50.220 --> 00:26:53.539 boat right now, and Craig, thank you so much, 00:26:53.559 --> 00:26:56.599 and I hope that... What's your next book, by 00:26:56.599 --> 00:27:00.059 the way? Well, I'm going to be working on that 00:27:00.059 --> 00:27:02.380 book I mentioned to my editor when we first decided 00:27:02.380 --> 00:27:04.779 I should do Midway, and that is something about 00:27:04.779 --> 00:27:06.680 Franklin Roosevelt as Commander -in -Chief in 00:27:06.680 --> 00:27:10.880 World War II. Oh, great, great. I'm looking forward 00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:15.339 to that. So, take care, thank you again, and 00:27:15.339 --> 00:27:18.759 good luck. Thank you, Dwight, and enjoy that 00:27:18.759 --> 00:27:26.200 conversation. Bye. Bye. The Battle of Midway 00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:28.799 by Craig L. Simons. It's published by Oxford 00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:32.920 University Press. Craig is an absolutely wonderful 00:27:32.920 --> 00:27:36.160 writer. I've had the delight in working with 00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:40.039 him in the past. He is a fantastic individual 00:27:40.039 --> 00:27:45.799 and yes, you would be very well served in picking 00:27:45.799 --> 00:27:51.160 up this book and also his book, Lincoln and His 00:27:51.160 --> 00:27:56.900 Admirals, which in 2009 was a co -winner of the 00:27:56.900 --> 00:28:01.799 Lincoln Prize. So this is a wonderful thing. 00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:06.640 Dale, how are we doing here? We're doing just 00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:08.680 fine, Dwight. We're getting ready to take a break 00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:12.180 in about ten seconds and we'll be back with Dwight 00:28:12.180 --> 00:28:15.700 Zimmerman and his next guest, Larry Bond, right 00:28:15.700 --> 00:28:17.559 after the Medal of Honor. You're listening to 00:28:17.559 --> 00:28:20.039 Veterans Radio. Intense enemy fire had pinned 00:28:20.039 --> 00:28:22.240 down leading elements of his company, committed 00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:24.890 to secure commanding ground. when Burke left 00:28:24.890 --> 00:28:27.230 the command post to rally and urged the men to 00:28:27.230 --> 00:28:29.809 follow him toward three bunkers, impeding the 00:28:29.809 --> 00:28:33.349 advance. Dashing to an exposed vantage position, 00:28:33.789 --> 00:28:36.210 he threw several grenades at the bunkers. Then 00:28:36.210 --> 00:28:39.309 returning for an M1 rifle and adapter, he made 00:28:39.309 --> 00:28:41.549 a lone assault, wiping out the position and killing 00:28:41.549 --> 00:28:45.170 the crew. Closing on the center bunker, he lobbed 00:28:45.170 --> 00:28:47.150 grenades through the opening, and with his pistol, 00:28:47.369 --> 00:28:49.089 killed three of its occupants, attempting to 00:28:49.089 --> 00:28:52.549 surround him. Ordering his men forward, he charged 00:28:52.549 --> 00:28:55.119 the third emplacement, catching several grenades 00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:57.220 in midair and hurling them back at the enemy. 00:28:57.799 --> 00:29:00.880 Inspired by his display of valor, his men stormed 00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:03.539 forward, overran the hostile position, but were 00:29:03.539 --> 00:29:07.099 again pinned down by increased fire. Securing 00:29:07.099 --> 00:29:09.460 a light machine gun and three boxes of ammunition, 00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:12.200 Burke dashed through the impact area to an open 00:29:12.200 --> 00:29:14.960 knoll, set up his gun, and poured a crippling 00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:17.460 fire into the ranks of the enemy, killing approximately 00:29:17.460 --> 00:29:21.839 75. Although wounded, He ordered more ammunition, 00:29:22.140 --> 00:29:24.559 reloading and destroying two mortar emplacements 00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:26.619 and a machine gun position with his accurate 00:29:26.619 --> 00:29:30.559 fire. Cradling the weapon in his arms, he then 00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:33.140 led his men forward, killing some 25 more of 00:29:33.140 --> 00:29:35.779 the retreating enemy and securing the objective. 00:29:36.980 --> 00:29:39.240 Burke's heroic action and daring exploits inspired 00:29:39.240 --> 00:29:42.779 his small force of 35 troops. The Medal of Honor 00:29:42.779 --> 00:29:53.920 series is a production of Veterans Radio. This 00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:57.539 is Dwight Zimmerman at AtEase on Veterans Radio 00:29:57.539 --> 00:30:02.279 Network. Welcome. And I am happy to welcome our 00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:04.819 next guest here, Larry Bond, a New York Times 00:30:04.819 --> 00:30:06.740 bestselling author who is going to be talking 00:30:06.740 --> 00:30:09.619 about his new book that comes out next month 00:30:09.619 --> 00:30:13.640 on May 18th. It's called Exit Plan, and it is 00:30:13.640 --> 00:30:17.500 one exciting story, that's for sure. Larry, welcome. 00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:22.730 Dwight, hi. Thanks for having me. So I'm happy 00:30:22.730 --> 00:30:26.430 that you're here. So tell us a little bit about 00:30:26.430 --> 00:30:30.750 this book. How did you arrange to have Iran and 00:30:30.750 --> 00:30:34.390 the SEALs and the United States set this whole 00:30:34.390 --> 00:30:38.470 thing up so that your story can come out? Well, 00:30:38.470 --> 00:30:41.049 you're breaking up just a little bit. Oh, I'm 00:30:41.049 --> 00:30:43.109 sorry to hear that. We got a little technical 00:30:43.109 --> 00:30:48.710 difficulty here. But the phrase torn from today's 00:30:48.710 --> 00:30:51.789 headlines tends to be overused. But as it turns 00:30:51.789 --> 00:30:57.150 out, this story, you'd swear that you were right 00:30:57.150 --> 00:31:02.990 there in the situation room. Well, it's supposed 00:31:02.990 --> 00:31:04.950 to give you that impression. We try for that, 00:31:05.069 --> 00:31:09.529 Dwight. But this situation between Israel and 00:31:09.529 --> 00:31:13.329 Iran has been going on for years. It's the kind 00:31:13.329 --> 00:31:16.210 of thing that really plays to a writer's advantage, 00:31:16.230 --> 00:31:19.940 because it's this There's great tension. There's 00:31:19.940 --> 00:31:22.099 tremendous forces involved. There's a lot at 00:31:22.099 --> 00:31:26.579 stake. Things are moving very, very slowly, diplomatically. 00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:30.200 And nobody's shooting each other, which isn't 00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:33.700 a good thing, but things are moving slowly. Therefore, 00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:37.660 I've got time to write a book, get it edited, 00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:42.839 and get it on the street. Hopefully, nobody will 00:31:42.839 --> 00:31:47.799 shoot at each other before that happens. My job 00:31:47.799 --> 00:31:50.720 as a writer is to look at that situation, knock 00:31:50.720 --> 00:31:54.259 the props out in the first chapter, and then 00:31:54.259 --> 00:31:57.799 see what happens naturally after that. Okay. 00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:01.660 Exit Plan is the third in a series of Jerry Mitchell 00:32:01.660 --> 00:32:03.680 books. Can you tell us a little bit about this? 00:32:03.980 --> 00:32:06.559 Well, Jerry Mitchell is the name of the hero, 00:32:06.559 --> 00:32:12.339 of course, and he's an aviator who has a little 00:32:12.339 --> 00:32:18.029 bit of background about him. I had a crash early 00:32:18.029 --> 00:32:23.529 in his training and lost use of one of his full 00:32:23.529 --> 00:32:25.930 range of motion in his hand, so to speak. So 00:32:25.930 --> 00:32:28.009 he can't fly anymore, he wants to stay in the 00:32:28.009 --> 00:32:31.210 Navy, and he goes into some nuclear submarine. 00:32:31.829 --> 00:32:33.849 He's actually based on a real world character 00:32:33.849 --> 00:32:36.910 that I knew. He didn't go to the fellow that 00:32:36.910 --> 00:32:40.170 I knew was on surface ships like I was. And I 00:32:40.170 --> 00:32:41.529 said, what if he wanted to go in a submarine? 00:32:41.910 --> 00:32:44.430 And that was sort of what the first book was 00:32:44.430 --> 00:32:46.900 about, Dangerous Ground. It was about him getting 00:32:46.900 --> 00:32:50.259 into submarines and then finding out about what 00:32:50.259 --> 00:32:54.279 life was like aboard them. And then think Hornblower 00:32:54.279 --> 00:32:57.059 after that. In the next book, he's now a department 00:32:57.059 --> 00:33:00.160 head, higher rank, more responsibility. He's 00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:04.059 aboard a different ship, a different boat, as 00:33:04.059 --> 00:33:07.099 the submariners say. Then in this book, he's 00:33:07.099 --> 00:33:09.819 now advancing in rank again. He's the executive 00:33:09.819 --> 00:33:14.000 officer aboard an Ohio class SSGN USS Michigan. 00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:20.599 Okay, the story of Exit Plan basically is he's 00:33:20.599 --> 00:33:25.480 part of, he joins with the SEAL team to extract 00:33:25.480 --> 00:33:29.900 two Iranian nationals who are involved in the 00:33:29.900 --> 00:33:34.519 Iran's nuclear weapons program. And of course, 00:33:34.599 --> 00:33:38.799 things start going bad very quickly, and one 00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:41.700 thing after another turns into this incredibly 00:33:41.700 --> 00:33:45.500 fast -paced gripping story. I have to tell you, 00:33:47.259 --> 00:33:53.660 when I got your book in the mail, it was like 00:33:53.660 --> 00:33:56.640 great, and then I said, oh, I know what's going 00:33:56.640 --> 00:34:00.339 to happen to me now. I couldn't put the book 00:34:00.339 --> 00:34:03.839 down. I really couldn't. It was just so hard. 00:34:05.240 --> 00:34:08.619 You wrote such a compelling story, and just when 00:34:08.619 --> 00:34:11.440 you figured out which way the story was going 00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:14.130 to go, you threw in a surprise here. You threw 00:34:14.130 --> 00:34:18.030 in another surprise there. You had a lot of twists 00:34:18.030 --> 00:34:22.309 and turns in this tale. I was hoping that things 00:34:22.309 --> 00:34:26.949 would turn out right in the end, but it turned 00:34:26.949 --> 00:34:30.110 out in a way that was completely unexpected for 00:34:30.110 --> 00:34:33.070 me. And I've been in the industry as an editor 00:34:33.070 --> 00:34:36.989 and a writer for over 30 years, and you surprised 00:34:36.989 --> 00:34:41.550 me a lot here. Well, thank you. That's high praise. 00:34:41.889 --> 00:34:44.530 My principal job as a writer is to deprive people 00:34:44.530 --> 00:34:48.630 of good night's sleep. You did that. I'm a writer. 00:34:52.510 --> 00:34:54.929 That's the highest praise I can get. That somebody 00:34:54.929 --> 00:34:56.570 couldn't put it down, that they were totally 00:34:56.570 --> 00:34:58.650 immersed and engrossed in the story. I mean, 00:34:59.489 --> 00:35:01.510 everybody calls me a writer, I think of myself 00:35:01.510 --> 00:35:04.130 as a storyteller. I mean, I tell a story and 00:35:04.130 --> 00:35:06.570 I happen to write it down, so I don't have to 00:35:06.570 --> 00:35:11.269 tell it multiple times. When I can immerse you 00:35:11.269 --> 00:35:13.409 in the story and make you ask questions about 00:35:13.409 --> 00:35:16.710 how are they going to get out of this, that's 00:35:16.710 --> 00:35:21.389 really what every writer wants to do. I should 00:35:21.389 --> 00:35:24.929 surprise you on almost every page because otherwise, 00:35:24.949 --> 00:35:27.610 if you know what's going to happen next, then 00:35:27.610 --> 00:35:29.150 why are you reading the story? You're reading 00:35:29.150 --> 00:35:30.650 the story to find out because you don't know. 00:35:32.389 --> 00:35:36.289 Exactly. You were a co -founder instrumental 00:35:36.289 --> 00:35:40.110 in creating this whole techno thriller genre 00:35:40.110 --> 00:35:44.989 and I have to admire your ability of when you're 00:35:44.989 --> 00:35:47.110 talking about the different weapon systems and 00:35:47.110 --> 00:35:50.210 the gear and the hardware you give us just enough 00:35:50.210 --> 00:35:52.670 so that we feel that we know what this stuff 00:35:52.670 --> 00:35:56.889 is how it functions and everything without going 00:35:56.889 --> 00:36:01.710 too far and you have a deft ability to know when 00:36:01.710 --> 00:36:04.530 to back off especially when we're getting to 00:36:04.530 --> 00:36:08.280 the climate Well, I've tried to build that skill. 00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:13.840 The gear, the nuclear submarines, the jet fighters, 00:36:14.679 --> 00:36:18.019 the satellites. That stuff is there for the same 00:36:18.019 --> 00:36:20.920 reason they have horses in a Western. It's there 00:36:20.920 --> 00:36:22.900 for the heroes and the other characters to do 00:36:22.900 --> 00:36:26.159 their job. And some of it's fun to talk about. 00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:30.079 And I've seen riders who get so wrapped up in 00:36:30.079 --> 00:36:33.510 the muzzle velocity of an M16 rifle. or the or 00:36:33.510 --> 00:36:35.750 the exact way you trigger a claim or a mine, 00:36:35.769 --> 00:36:40.170 and they... A lot of numbers makes people's eyes 00:36:40.170 --> 00:36:42.429 glaze over because it's hard to hold those facts 00:36:42.429 --> 00:36:44.809 in your head. Is it important what the muzzle 00:36:44.809 --> 00:36:47.889 velocity of an M16 rifle is? If it's important, 00:36:48.090 --> 00:36:50.030 put it in there, spend a little time on it, then 00:36:50.030 --> 00:36:52.889 drive on. But to just throw in numbers to show 00:36:52.889 --> 00:36:55.409 how much you know, I don't think it accomplishes 00:36:55.409 --> 00:37:00.230 anything. Yes, and the other aspect, some authors 00:37:00.230 --> 00:37:03.820 in the techno -thriller genre Their characters 00:37:03.820 --> 00:37:08.280 are two -dimensional, cardboard, not yours. You 00:37:08.280 --> 00:37:13.139 flesh them out very well. Talking about exit 00:37:13.139 --> 00:37:17.179 plan, your characters are living people. You 00:37:17.179 --> 00:37:20.820 really care about them. I would like you to talk 00:37:20.820 --> 00:37:24.480 about the two Iranians specifically because it 00:37:24.480 --> 00:37:28.559 is such a touching and poignant story. These 00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:31.750 two people really struggled. with the decision 00:37:31.750 --> 00:37:36.489 to betray their country. So please, tell our 00:37:36.489 --> 00:37:40.769 listeners more about them. Well, I've got an 00:37:40.769 --> 00:37:42.929 interesting relationship with the Iranian people 00:37:42.929 --> 00:37:45.170 in that while I was going through officer candidate 00:37:45.170 --> 00:37:48.550 school, we had an Iranian company in our regiment. 00:37:49.250 --> 00:37:52.650 These were guys that the Shah sent over during 00:37:52.650 --> 00:37:54.829 the 1970s and they were being trained to use 00:37:54.829 --> 00:37:59.030 US equipment. not only where it was there uh... 00:37:59.030 --> 00:38:02.130 we were juliet company and right right right 00:38:02.130 --> 00:38:06.530 across the passageway from us romeo company yeah 00:38:06.530 --> 00:38:09.889 i know it was a joke and they uh... they were 00:38:09.889 --> 00:38:12.070 the iranians and these guys were sharp they were 00:38:12.070 --> 00:38:13.889 all, of course they were all full of fingers 00:38:13.889 --> 00:38:17.190 and they were good guys i often imagine what 00:38:17.190 --> 00:38:18.869 happened to them when they went back and then 00:38:18.869 --> 00:38:20.849 there's the revolution and how many that made 00:38:20.849 --> 00:38:23.250 it through that and that's another story there 00:38:23.250 --> 00:38:24.929 were also the first six women in the iranian 00:38:24.929 --> 00:38:28.130 navy were in my regiment And these gals were 00:38:28.130 --> 00:38:31.710 all beautiful. Barrier breakers, of course. And 00:38:31.710 --> 00:38:34.130 they were paid as E1s, even though they were 00:38:34.130 --> 00:38:38.130 commissioned as officers. And you couldn't ask 00:38:38.130 --> 00:38:42.309 one for a date. You had to ask all six out. So 00:38:42.309 --> 00:38:44.570 you had to get six guys together and go down 00:38:44.570 --> 00:38:48.309 there. And they all run around and check with 00:38:48.309 --> 00:38:49.809 each other. Then they go up and ask the men. 00:38:50.710 --> 00:38:53.170 And once it was OK with the men, then those six 00:38:53.170 --> 00:38:56.420 women would go out with you as a group. I learned 00:38:56.420 --> 00:38:58.780 a lot about the Iranian people and the Iranian 00:38:58.780 --> 00:39:02.519 culture from my exposure with those folks. I 00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:08.199 don't see them as the rifle -waving, jihadist 00:39:08.199 --> 00:39:10.980 nuts that sometimes gets portrayed on the news. 00:39:11.059 --> 00:39:16.679 I see them as people with a long history and 00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:20.539 a very complex and cultured civilization. I think 00:39:20.539 --> 00:39:23.280 their government needs to be totally flushed 00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:28.599 and replaced. So when I went to write about those 00:39:28.599 --> 00:39:32.079 people, I said, here's a young couple that are 00:39:32.079 --> 00:39:33.719 very much in love with each other. It's easy 00:39:33.719 --> 00:39:37.199 to show that. And at the same time, they're repelled 00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:40.639 by their government and what they're doing. So 00:39:40.639 --> 00:39:45.380 I tried to imagine that type of thing. And a 00:39:45.380 --> 00:39:53.010 lot of the reactions were almost automatic. The 00:39:53.010 --> 00:39:56.010 lady is the stronger of the two because she's 00:39:56.010 --> 00:39:58.210 the one who made the initial decision that we're 00:39:58.210 --> 00:40:00.670 leaving. Her husband is faithful, he has his 00:40:00.670 --> 00:40:03.989 own reasons for leaving, and he goes along with 00:40:03.989 --> 00:40:09.590 that. And some of the stuff, I mean, given that 00:40:09.590 --> 00:40:12.090 high type of strong woman, who I think a lot 00:40:12.090 --> 00:40:17.510 of us had exposure to, I was able to almost, 00:40:17.789 --> 00:40:20.309 it was almost easy to come up with what her reactions 00:40:20.309 --> 00:40:22.900 would be to different situations. when there 00:40:22.900 --> 00:40:26.480 is a problem with the initial extraction. And 00:40:26.480 --> 00:40:30.159 Jerry and his seals are stranded on the beach 00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:33.960 along with two people they're supposed to rescue. 00:40:34.780 --> 00:40:37.280 And is that a classic, you call this a rescue 00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:40.360 reaction or what? I mean, it was almost too easy 00:40:40.360 --> 00:40:44.719 to write that scene. But yeah, I really thought 00:40:44.719 --> 00:40:48.800 of them as people and as central to the story 00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:52.079 as Jerry and his seals. Well, on top of that, 00:40:52.119 --> 00:40:57.659 you had her be pregnant. On top of everything 00:40:57.659 --> 00:41:03.500 else, you add multiple layers, which is basically 00:41:03.500 --> 00:41:06.159 what I'm trying to get at here for our listeners. 00:41:07.739 --> 00:41:11.039 Larry's stories are not just straight action 00:41:11.039 --> 00:41:12.719 adventure, though there certainly is an awful 00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:17.440 lot of that. When you open up a Larry Bond book, 00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:22.960 it's... It's an incredible journey. You are pulled 00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:29.320 in so many different ways emotionally. I've just 00:41:29.320 --> 00:41:31.880 been in awe of how you pull these things together. 00:41:32.559 --> 00:41:35.980 Now, you have a website that people can go to 00:41:35.980 --> 00:41:39.300 to find out about your other books as well, correct? 00:41:40.500 --> 00:41:44.179 That's true. There's Larry -Bon .com and I'm 00:41:44.179 --> 00:41:48.250 on Facebook. I update the Facebook more than 00:41:48.250 --> 00:41:50.869 I update the LarryBond .bond because I can update 00:41:50.869 --> 00:41:53.789 the Facebook myself, of course. But I try and 00:41:53.789 --> 00:41:57.409 keep people... Okay, Larry, I'm sorry to cut 00:41:57.409 --> 00:42:00.570 you off, but we have to take a little break right 00:42:00.570 --> 00:42:03.690 now. This is Dwight Zimmerman talking to vessels 00:42:03.690 --> 00:42:06.289 author Larry Bond. We'll take a break and be 00:42:06.289 --> 00:42:09.130 right back. This is Dwight Zimmerman of At Ease 00:42:09.130 --> 00:42:11.869 from Veterans Radio Network and I have as my 00:42:11.869 --> 00:42:14.090 guest Larry Bond and we've been talking about 00:42:14.090 --> 00:42:19.179 his upcoming book. Larry, I'd like to talk about 00:42:19.179 --> 00:42:24.380 a pivotal group within this story, the Navy SEALs. 00:42:24.619 --> 00:42:27.940 I've had the good fortune of meeting a number 00:42:27.940 --> 00:42:31.980 of SEALs, interviewing them, and writing accounts 00:42:31.980 --> 00:42:38.000 of some of their missions, and I was impressed 00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:41.420 at how well you nailed down how they operate, 00:42:41.639 --> 00:42:46.929 their personalities. at every level of them pulling 00:42:46.929 --> 00:42:49.510 off a mission. You did an awful lot of research 00:42:49.510 --> 00:42:55.550 on this. We did. We did. And part of that was 00:42:55.550 --> 00:42:57.670 one of the things we wanted to do in this book 00:42:57.670 --> 00:43:01.090 was take Jerry Mitchell, who's in the past two 00:43:01.090 --> 00:43:04.070 books who's shown to be a very capable and resourceful 00:43:04.070 --> 00:43:06.510 submariner, and put him in a situation where 00:43:06.510 --> 00:43:09.050 he's a little outside his comfort zone. In other 00:43:09.050 --> 00:43:11.510 words, he's not on a submarine. All of a sudden, 00:43:12.110 --> 00:43:16.920 he's on land. and involved in a very personal 00:43:16.920 --> 00:43:19.880 struggle to stay alive. And this is not something 00:43:19.880 --> 00:43:24.079 that most naval officers are trained for. And 00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:28.500 the SEALs that he's with are very, I was in the 00:43:28.500 --> 00:43:33.139 Navy in the 70s, and I trained, surface warfare 00:43:33.139 --> 00:43:39.039 officer school for me was at Coronado, California, 00:43:39.159 --> 00:43:41.340 which is where the SEALs trained. And so we would 00:43:41.340 --> 00:43:43.300 see these guys during Hell Week, running around 00:43:43.300 --> 00:43:47.880 carrying logs and inflatable boats. We basically 00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:50.199 thought they were insane. We were glad they were 00:43:50.199 --> 00:43:53.079 on our side because their entire regiment seemed 00:43:53.079 --> 00:43:55.280 to consist of physical exercise and learning 00:43:55.280 --> 00:43:59.400 how to kill things. So that's the attitude of 00:43:59.400 --> 00:44:01.079 a lot of the fleet towards these guys. They're 00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:03.639 sort of a projectile. We fire at different targets 00:44:03.639 --> 00:44:07.420 as needed. And they're incredibly capable guys. 00:44:08.409 --> 00:44:12.070 I'm going to plug somebody else's book. If you're 00:44:12.070 --> 00:44:15.190 looking to learn about the SEALs, Dick Couch 00:44:15.190 --> 00:44:19.150 has what I call the SEAL Trilogy. Dick is a SEAL 00:44:19.150 --> 00:44:21.349 who served in Vietnam and he's an amazingly good 00:44:21.349 --> 00:44:24.050 writer. He wrote a series called Warrior Elite, 00:44:24.530 --> 00:44:28.050 Finishing School, and then Downrange. Those three 00:44:28.050 --> 00:44:31.750 books take you through Bud School, which is an 00:44:31.750 --> 00:44:36.050 amazingly detailed account of not only Hell Week, 00:44:36.449 --> 00:44:40.260 but what's in front of and behind that. and then 00:44:40.260 --> 00:44:42.239 Warner Elite, which is the year plus of training 00:44:42.239 --> 00:44:44.380 they get after they finish their SEAL training, 00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:49.719 and then downrange actually puts them on some 00:44:49.719 --> 00:44:55.460 missions. My co -author, Chris Carlson, had the 00:44:55.460 --> 00:45:00.019 good fortune to work for SEAL, former SEAL, retired 00:45:00.019 --> 00:45:03.780 SEAL, as a civilian. And so we talked and his 00:45:03.780 --> 00:45:05.940 name was Ryan McCombie, who's also a Vietnam 00:45:05.940 --> 00:45:09.460 SEAL. Ryan, of course, did college results in 00:45:09.460 --> 00:45:15.639 all of the SEALs. Ryan told us so much about 00:45:15.639 --> 00:45:19.940 SEAL attitudes, SEAL training, SEAL practices. 00:45:21.239 --> 00:45:23.860 It's funny, a lot of it doesn't have to do with 00:45:23.860 --> 00:45:30.280 combat or with some sort of special techniques. 00:45:30.699 --> 00:45:33.860 It's more a matter of thorough preparation and 00:45:33.860 --> 00:45:36.539 planning and training. to a degree that most 00:45:36.539 --> 00:45:40.480 of us would regard as almost pathological, but 00:45:40.480 --> 00:45:42.340 this is what keeps them alive, and it works. 00:45:43.179 --> 00:45:47.980 Okay, and they had enough challenges tossed their 00:45:47.980 --> 00:45:53.079 way during their escape and evasion efforts. 00:45:54.579 --> 00:46:00.880 The Iranian head of security, a shadowy character 00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:06.630 that he is, is really a He's a marvelous villain. 00:46:07.849 --> 00:46:12.889 I would not like to meet this man. Tell the listeners 00:46:12.889 --> 00:46:17.829 more about him. Every good story needs a good 00:46:17.829 --> 00:46:22.969 bad guy. Unfortunately, the security services 00:46:22.969 --> 00:46:26.690 in Iran as they are right now are legendary for 00:46:26.690 --> 00:46:31.130 their ruthlessness and viciousness. Coming up 00:46:31.130 --> 00:46:33.730 with a character based on someone who is also 00:46:33.710 --> 00:46:37.090 almost taken directly from the newspapers wasn't 00:46:37.090 --> 00:46:42.010 that hard. I tried to put some motivation in 00:46:42.010 --> 00:46:46.190 him so that the people... I hated when the entire 00:46:46.190 --> 00:46:48.170 motivation of the villain consisted of him getting 00:46:48.170 --> 00:46:49.710 up in the morning and saying, I think I'll do 00:46:49.710 --> 00:46:53.769 evil today. Everybody does things because they 00:46:53.769 --> 00:46:55.909 think they've got good reasons to do it. And 00:46:55.909 --> 00:46:59.610 he's got his own reasons, screwy as they are. 00:47:00.130 --> 00:47:03.760 And he... From his point of view, the book is 00:47:03.760 --> 00:47:06.000 almost a detective story as he tries to crack 00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:10.320 down these intruders and bring them to what he 00:47:10.320 --> 00:47:17.199 thinks is justice. His personality lends itself 00:47:17.199 --> 00:47:20.480 to that, I think. Of course, he gets his comeuppance 00:47:20.480 --> 00:47:22.920 in the end, which, you know, yeah, we've got 00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:25.000 to do that. It's one of the rules. I had a lot 00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:26.940 of fun writing him. I had as much fun writing 00:47:26.940 --> 00:47:29.360 the villains as I do writing the heroes because... 00:47:30.460 --> 00:47:32.900 At some level you have to be able to identify 00:47:32.900 --> 00:47:37.000 with the villain as a writer and say, okay, what 00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:39.079 is he going to do next? Yeah, this makes sense 00:47:39.079 --> 00:47:41.039 for him. So you've got to have some sort of rapport 00:47:41.039 --> 00:47:45.699 with your characters. Yes, and the way that he 00:47:45.699 --> 00:47:52.559 is taken care of is a quite spectacular finish 00:47:52.559 --> 00:47:56.679 to the story. I have to commend you on that one. 00:47:59.369 --> 00:48:02.510 You have another book in this series coming out. 00:48:02.690 --> 00:48:04.530 You're almost done writing that, is that correct? 00:48:05.590 --> 00:48:08.809 Well yeah, the fourth Jerry Mitchell book. I 00:48:08.809 --> 00:48:10.449 obviously don't want to talk too much about the 00:48:10.449 --> 00:48:13.949 plot, although given the natural progression, 00:48:14.409 --> 00:48:16.230 yes, in this book he's going to be the captain 00:48:16.230 --> 00:48:20.510 of a submarine now. He's advanced through the 00:48:20.510 --> 00:48:26.829 years and through different adventures. I've 00:48:26.829 --> 00:48:29.159 got a June 1st deadline to turn that in. And 00:48:29.159 --> 00:48:31.559 then it will go through the publishing, editing 00:48:31.559 --> 00:48:34.699 process with four or four books. Hopefully it 00:48:34.699 --> 00:48:38.099 will come out sometime in 2013. It's amazing 00:48:38.099 --> 00:48:41.300 how long it takes to get a book from the shelves, 00:48:41.920 --> 00:48:44.780 or on the shelves, from the manuscript form. 00:48:44.860 --> 00:48:49.780 And a lot of it has to do with what they call 00:48:49.780 --> 00:48:52.039 the buyer's cycle, which, well, you know more 00:48:52.039 --> 00:48:56.280 about that than I do. But for the readers, it's 00:48:56.280 --> 00:49:00.489 like a six month cycle. If you miss one part 00:49:00.489 --> 00:49:02.929 of that cycle, you have to wait another six months 00:49:02.929 --> 00:49:06.809 to catch the merry -go -round next time it passes. 00:49:08.050 --> 00:49:10.070 It can be a little frustrating sometimes. It's 00:49:10.070 --> 00:49:13.829 very frustrating with this anchored plan. We 00:49:13.829 --> 00:49:17.789 delivered the manuscript, and all of a sudden, 00:49:18.110 --> 00:49:20.250 the news is full of things about Seals. It was 00:49:20.250 --> 00:49:22.250 just about a year ago that Osama Bin Laden was 00:49:22.250 --> 00:49:24.449 killed, so Seals were all of a sudden a very 00:49:24.449 --> 00:49:27.079 topical subject. And we'd already turned in the 00:49:27.079 --> 00:49:29.139 manuscript, and I said to my editor, we've got 00:49:29.139 --> 00:49:31.619 to get this thing on the street. This is hot 00:49:31.619 --> 00:49:36.559 stuff. And he said he'd move heaven and earth 00:49:36.559 --> 00:49:38.619 to try and get it out as quick as he could. And 00:49:38.619 --> 00:49:41.940 he managed to shift the publication date from 00:49:41.940 --> 00:49:46.980 late June to late April. Too much. That's all 00:49:46.980 --> 00:49:48.840 he could give me. And then it slipped. So now 00:49:48.840 --> 00:49:56.460 it's coming out in mid -May. You're participating 00:49:56.460 --> 00:50:00.199 in a charity event on the May 18th pub date. 00:50:00.639 --> 00:50:05.480 Tell us about that. Well, it just happens. One 00:50:05.480 --> 00:50:10.880 of my good friends down in North Carolina said, 00:50:10.980 --> 00:50:13.639 you know, let me organize some sort of publication 00:50:13.639 --> 00:50:16.920 party. Authors being people love to have parties. 00:50:17.860 --> 00:50:19.500 And if our book's involved and people are talking 00:50:19.500 --> 00:50:23.849 about our books, this is a good thing. Her name's 00:50:23.849 --> 00:50:26.449 Kathy Fell, and for anybody who's down through 00:50:26.449 --> 00:50:28.329 and can get to Sunset Beach, North Carolina, 00:50:28.409 --> 00:50:31.710 which is a beautiful little community, they're 00:50:31.710 --> 00:50:36.090 going to have a charity event which supports 00:50:36.090 --> 00:50:40.269 a charity called Cat Tales. It's a cat adoption 00:50:40.269 --> 00:50:42.630 service, and it's a worthy cause in my opinion. 00:50:43.269 --> 00:50:46.969 We have a couple rescued cats ourselves. The 00:50:46.969 --> 00:50:51.159 idea is Torr Forge on their Just out of the goodness 00:50:51.159 --> 00:50:53.199 of their heart, I'm going to donate books, donate 00:50:53.199 --> 00:50:56.179 new copies of the book, and people can buy them. 00:50:56.239 --> 00:51:00.579 The money will go to Cattails. And then, of course, 00:51:00.599 --> 00:51:02.780 I'll be down there with my co -author, Chris 00:51:02.780 --> 00:51:04.800 Carlson. We'll both be photographing copies of 00:51:04.800 --> 00:51:06.760 the book. We'll have the rest of our back lists 00:51:06.760 --> 00:51:08.559 there, too, if anybody wants to buy the other 00:51:08.559 --> 00:51:11.420 stuff. We don't want to miss up any buying opportunities 00:51:11.420 --> 00:51:17.380 there. No, sir. So I've been talking with Larry 00:51:17.380 --> 00:51:21.960 Bond here. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I was just going 00:51:21.960 --> 00:51:23.239 to say it's going to be on the Saturday, which 00:51:23.239 --> 00:51:27.280 I think is May 19th, technically. I haven't looked 00:51:27.280 --> 00:51:29.579 at the calendar lately. I have to double -check 00:51:29.579 --> 00:51:32.340 that. We're going to do a couple of events down 00:51:32.340 --> 00:51:35.579 in that area. Okay. I've been talking with Larry 00:51:35.579 --> 00:51:38.539 Bond about his new book, Exit Plan, which is 00:51:38.539 --> 00:51:43.139 an exciting action techno -thriller adventure 00:51:43.139 --> 00:51:49.119 that will be out next month, May 18th, May 19th. 00:51:49.550 --> 00:51:53.630 I hope that everyone has an opportunity to check 00:51:53.630 --> 00:51:57.389 out this book. Certainly, you can go to his website, 00:51:58.150 --> 00:52:02.570 Larry -Bond .com and find out more about Larry 00:52:02.570 --> 00:52:06.829 and his many books. He's an exciting writer, 00:52:08.469 --> 00:52:13.429 a wonderful author of many books, and I'm just 00:52:13.429 --> 00:52:15.389 very thrilled that you've been a part of our 00:52:15.389 --> 00:52:18.030 program today. Well, it's been a lot of fun being 00:52:18.030 --> 00:52:24.219 here. Okay, so Dale, I guess we're nearing the 00:52:24.219 --> 00:52:26.880 end of our show. Larry, I just want to thank 00:52:26.880 --> 00:52:32.320 you so much for being on the program and I hope 00:52:32.320 --> 00:52:35.239 to have you on here again when we're going to 00:52:35.239 --> 00:52:38.099 talk about the fourth book in your series. Can 00:52:38.099 --> 00:52:41.320 you tell us that title? Or is that still top 00:52:41.320 --> 00:52:46.179 secret? I'm sorry, it's just like, I can't do 00:52:46.179 --> 00:52:51.900 it. Okay. Thanks so much. Thank you for your 00:52:51.900 --> 00:52:54.960 many kind words. Oh, and thank you for being 00:52:54.960 --> 00:53:00.159 such a great storyteller. And a warning to everybody, 00:53:00.239 --> 00:53:03.099 if you do pick up a Larry Bond book, do it in 00:53:03.099 --> 00:53:05.199 the morning and make sure that you're doing it 00:53:05.199 --> 00:53:07.420 on a weekend or you're not going to be going 00:53:07.420 --> 00:53:09.860 to work the next day because it's going to be 00:53:09.860 --> 00:53:15.039 very hard, if not impossible, to put down. Thanks 00:53:15.039 --> 00:53:17.300 very much. Have a good day, Dwight. Thank you. 00:53:17.300 --> 00:53:25.900 You too. I am here. Hi, there you are, Dale. 00:53:26.539 --> 00:53:29.099 I am here. Thanks again. It was a great program. 00:53:29.920 --> 00:53:31.739 We've got another one coming up next week. We're 00:53:31.739 --> 00:53:35.599 going to be talking with Owen West, that's Bing 00:53:35.599 --> 00:53:38.239 West's son, who has written his own novel called 00:53:38.239 --> 00:53:41.940 Snake Eaters about his experiences in Iraq in 00:53:41.940 --> 00:53:44.920 2005. And so we're excited to have him on the 00:53:44.920 --> 00:53:48.519 program. Dwight will be back next month with 00:53:48.519 --> 00:53:50.460 another story. And we've got about 10 seconds 00:53:50.460 --> 00:53:53.920 to say thank you, Dwight, again. And we'll be 00:53:53.920 --> 00:53:57.380 talking to you soon. Yes, thank you, Dale. And 00:53:57.380 --> 00:53:59.820 thank you to everyone who is listening today. 00:54:00.300 --> 00:54:07.800 You are dismissed. All views and opinions expressed 00:54:07.800 --> 00:54:10.280 on this program are not necessarily of Veterans 00:54:10.280 --> 00:54:13.840 Radio or the station. Veterans Radio is a production 00:54:13.840 --> 00:54:15.579 of Veterans Radio LLC.