WEBVTT

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Veterans Radio is dedicated to all the men and

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women who have served or are currently serving

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in the Armed Forces of the United States of America.

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From the studios of Ave Maria Radio in Ann Arbor,

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this is Veterans Radio. And now here's your host,

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Dale Throneberry. And good morning America and

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welcome to veterans radio and welcome to all

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of our listeners out there here in the local

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Ann Arbor area and around the world We're coming

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to you live from the studios of WDEO 990 a .m.

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And well not quite so beautiful Ann Arbor, Michigan

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this morning It's always beautiful in Ann Arbor.

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That's true, but the sun is hiding today. It

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may be out again a little bit later. But it's

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sunny here in the studio. It is always sunny

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in the studio. It is especially sunny in our

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control room with our engineer today, Nina. The

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lovely Nina. Good morning. How are you? We are

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all fine. Thank you very much, Nina, for all

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that you do for the program. It's greatly appreciated.

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It's my pleasure. Joining me in the studio is

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my partner today is Bob Gould. Bob, how are you

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doing? Well, welcome to all my brothers and sisters

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out there and to the world. That's right. We've

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got a little anecdote we'd like to tell, a little

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story today. As you all know, here in the local

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area we have breakfast every Saturday morning

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at the local Big Boy restaurant at the intersection

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of US -23 and Plymouth Road. And the owner of

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this particular big boy, Joe, unfortunately had

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an accident last weekend. And as he explained

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it, he came out of his driveway much too fast

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and the car that was coming down the road legally

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didn't get a chance to stop. So they stopped

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each other. But the EMT operator that was there

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to help Joe and was getting ready to take him

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into his ambulance looked down at him and says,

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oh, I know you. You're the owner of the big boy

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restaurant, aren't you? And the guy goes, you

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know, ow, ow, ow, yes. Yes, I am. And he says,

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hey, you know Bob and Dale, don't you? Yeah.

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I listen to Veterans Radio every Saturday morning.

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So whoever the anonymous EMT is out there, thank

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you so very much. We greatly appreciate that.

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We have a reputation. We do. We have a reputation

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that we need to uphold. It's nice to hear that.

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Which can be a little dangerous sometimes. So

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anyway, so we were talking with Joe this morning

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and it looks like we may be trying to figure

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out how to do a remote. Right from the big boy.

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Right from the big boy. Sometimes later on to

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do a fundraiser. And speaking of fundraising,

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if you guys out there, men and women and civilians

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and military alike, if you like what you're hearing

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on Veterans Radio, we could really use your support.

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And to do that, you can send us your donation.

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to veterans radio I mean now it's time to do

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it now it's time that's right to pony up give

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us a hand that's right hold you we've got our

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hand out you can well a handout to pull us out

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I don't mean handout no like a hat no no no no

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to to pull us and we'll be we'll be hanging on

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and And we want to continue on bringing this

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broadcasting so we do the rubber is hitting the

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road folks Now now it is now it is and you like

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the programming that we have especially the one

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last week gosh was that That was that was super

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the one about the dewy. Oh, yes And then we had

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the captain of the ship who was actually there

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That's the kind of programming that we bring

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to you. That's what we do. That's actually Larry

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King stuff. Oh, we're way beyond Larry King.

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Way beyond. Anyhow, if you'd like to help us

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out and make a contribution, you can just send

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us your donation to Veterans Radio at P .O. Box

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3085. That's 3085, Ann Arbor, Michigan 48106.

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48106. We also encourage you that are listening

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to us on WDEO to keep... supporting WDEO. They

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do a great job for us too. But when you do send

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us your donation, make the check out to Veterans

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Radio. Right. So that way it goes in to our account.

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Right. So it's got to be out to... Yeah, don't

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make it out to Bob or to me. All right. Then

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Dale, what's that? What's that address again?

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That's Peelbox 3085 Ann Arbor, Michigan 48106.

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Thank you for listening. The next thing we want

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to talk about is another fundraiser that's going

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on, and also joining me in the studio today,

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and I'm going to have him back on later on, is

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our old friend, Dog Handler, the Dog Man, Vance

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McCrum. Vance, welcome to Veterans Radio. Thank

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you, Dale. Appreciate the offer to be in the

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studio this morning, and a good morning to all

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my fellow handlers out there around the world.

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What a voice this guy has. I know. We keep trying

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to recruit him. To all of the dog handlers out

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there and to all of you dog lovers out there,

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today's program is about soldier dogs and their

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handlers and their training and some of the stories

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that go along with them. And Vance was a dog

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handler in Vietnam. When were you there? I was

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in country in 1965. I was a United States Air

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Force dog handler from 63 through 67. And your

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dog's name was? Well, there were three. My first

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dog was Casey. The dog I had in country was Dutch.

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And my last dog was Teddy. They do change it

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around. I was amazed when I was reading that

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story. I'm getting ahead of myself. When I was

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reading this story, I was amazed how they changed

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off quite often. But the other reason I have

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you here is I wanted to talk about the dinner

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tonight, the VBA Chapter 310 recognition dinner,

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the Gary Lilly annual recognition dinner. And

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do you have that information off the top of your

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head? Absolutely, Dave. Thank you very much.

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We renamed the VBA Chapter 310's recognition

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dinner to the Gary Lilly recognition dinner and

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it's a spaghetti dinner. And it's every year

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we have this event where we honor two chapter

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members, a chapter of the year and the Jerry

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Sims Award winner as well as some other people

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who support our chapter and we recognize them

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and we do it every year. And the recipe that

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they're following for this spaghetti dinner,

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by the way, is our old friend and partner, Gary

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Lilly's recipe, and so nobody can mess with that.

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Secret sauce. Secret recipe. Secret sauce. That's

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what I understand. I understand. Nobody knows

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what's in it. You know, and I want to say to

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all our listeners out there, yes, we do talk

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about local fundraisers, et cetera, but do check

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your VVA, American Legion VFW. that's nearby

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because these very recognition dinners are being

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held everywhere throughout the year. So do check,

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all you military folks, that's right, do check

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with those local organizations. Right, and if

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you want us to promote it, give us a call or

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send us an email and we'll get it out over the

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air for you. But that's tonight at 6 o 'clock

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at UAW Local. These glasses don't work at all

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anymore. UAW Local 898 Union Hall, that's on

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Textile Road in Ypsilanti, Michigan. Six o 'clock,

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see you, we'll all be there and we're anxious

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for you to come out. That's an order. That's

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right, that's an order. And speaking of orders,

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this one is to Nina. We'll be right back with

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our guest, author of Soldier Dogs. You have honorably

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served the United States and the Marine Corps

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in times of peace and war. Now we would like

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to serve you. The Marine Scholars Program covers

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the total cost of attending Ave Maria University

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by combining resources from the Ave Maria University

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Marine Scholars Funding, federal financial aid

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entitlements, and the GI Bill. The benefits are

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granted for the duration of the recipient study

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at Ave Maria University contingent upon good

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conduct and good academic standing. The Marine

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Scholars Program is open to all reserve and active

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component Marines and other combat veterans of

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Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation Iraqi

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Freedom who have honorably served our country.

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Please visit us online at www .avemaria .edu

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or call the Assistant Director of Admissions

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at 239 -280 -2552. You helped us. Now let us

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help you. Semper Fi. We are back here on Veterans

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Radio and today's program is dedicated to the

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dogs of the world and to their handlers. Joining

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me here on Veterans Radio is the author of Soldier

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Dogs, The Untold Story of America's Canine Heroes.

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It's Maria Godavage. I'm hoping I'm pronouncing

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your name right, Maria. It's just a great story,

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Maria. I want to thank you so much for writing

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it, for one thing. I'm excited to have you on

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the program today so that we can talk about...

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what these amazing animals go through in their

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training and when they are deployed. Welcome

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to Veterans Radio, Maria. Thank you very much

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Dale. So tell me what motivated you to write

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this particular book. Well I actually grew up

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steeped in a little bit of talk about dogs in

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war because my dad was a very young soldier in

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World War II and he went over there and he wasn't

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a handler but he was really comforted by the

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military dogs who were there and actually the

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mascot dogs. I actually have a great picture

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I've got to put up on my website of him with

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three puppies that he found and adopted and kind

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of took in and a monkey too. But he told me all

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about what these war dogs did back then and how

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at the end of the day these guys would be really,

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some people would be homesick. He got homesick

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a little bit there and sat in tough days and

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the dog would always be there and the dog would...

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seemed to know who to go to and who needed the

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comforting. He said he couldn't believe the magic

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these dogs brought and how they saved lives.

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That was with me all through my life. I was a

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journalist. I worked for a number of newspapers,

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USA Today. Then I got into the dog writing world

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as well and was collecting books on military

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dog history, including some really good ones

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by Mike Lemish. And I was thinking, you know,

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I'm really going to write a book one of these

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days and honor these dogs and handlers and tell

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people what they do. And then getting some research

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done. And then the Osama bin Laden raid hit last

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year, and it became pretty well known that there

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was a dog involved in the raid with the Navy

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SEAL Team 6. And people didn't realize that.

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And the media went crazy for this dog. the fact

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that they're actually dogs in the military, and

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I thought, finally I'm going to start writing

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this book, or continue writing this book that

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I started. So that was the timing for that. But

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I've always known about them and really been

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in great admiration for these dog teams and how

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much they do. Well, you had really unlimited

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access, it seems, to Lackland Air Force Base

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where most of these dogs are trained. Is that

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correct? Not completely unlimited. But I was

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very, very lucky that they trusted me. It took

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a lot. It took a lot to get in there. It took

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a lot of proving myself to them. But when I was

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in there, I got really incredible access to a

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lot of things that people, journalists, hadn't

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gotten access to. And the amount of time I got

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to spend there with certain programs was really

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incredible. And I got to Lackland, as most of

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your listeners probably know, is... is Dog Central.

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It's where the dogs get trained for in dog school.

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It's where the handlers get trained and it's

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kind of the place to go if you're going to learn

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about what these dogs and handlers go through.

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And it was a pretty amazing time and it's intense

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there. It's really amazing what the training

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is and also the medical, sort of the induction

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that the dogs have to go through, shall we say,

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to become soldier dogs or marine dogs or whatever

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they're going to be is pretty amazing. I've got

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Vance McCrum here in the studio with me and if

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you listen to our intro he's a dog handler in

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Vietnam and when you started talking about Lackland

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Air Force base he was nodding his head because

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I guess everybody that's the place to go. Everybody.

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Ninety nine percent of the handlers went through

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Lackland and that's all branches of service but

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the Army had some Army and the Marines had some

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different locations for training as well. But

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Lackland is the center, if you will. Sorry, did

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you go through their events? Yes, I went through

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Lackland in May of 1963. Wow, wow. It was in

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existence then. Here's another source for your

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next book. Yes, definitely. I'm glad that she

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mentioned Mike Lemish because Mike has wrote

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two books in his last book. Unfortunately, I

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forgot the name on. I sent him some pictures.

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of the first group of guys who left for Vietnam

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in 1965. And Mike is a great historian on military

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working dogs. Yeah, he is the historian. He's

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amazing. His books are incredible. And the research

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that went into his books, he went all over the

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place. And he spent years doing this incredibly

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intensive research on the history. And I have

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great admiration for him and his books. And really,

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go buy them if you like military working dog

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history, absolutely. Well, for those of you out

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there who have questions for Maria or Vance or

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anything about soldier dogs and their handlers,

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you can give us a call right here at Veterans

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Radio at 877 -573 -7825. That's 877 -573 -7825.

00:14:09.669 --> 00:14:13.450
We are talking with Maria Godavich? Yeah, yeah.

00:14:13.889 --> 00:14:16.110
That's good. Me and I were talking about where

00:14:16.110 --> 00:14:18.570
we put the accent on this one. Anyway, she is

00:14:18.570 --> 00:14:20.629
the author of Soldier Dogs, the Untold Story

00:14:20.629 --> 00:14:25.090
of America's Canine Heroes. I've got to get him

00:14:25.090 --> 00:14:27.330
on the line right away here. I've got the president

00:14:27.330 --> 00:14:31.169
of the United U .S. War Dogs Association, Ron

00:14:31.169 --> 00:14:34.470
Aiello. Ron, welcome to Veterans Radio. Thank

00:14:34.470 --> 00:14:38.210
you for having me on. It's an honor to be on

00:14:38.210 --> 00:14:42.029
your show, especially with Maria, who wrote the

00:14:42.029 --> 00:14:44.929
soldier dogs. I think she's done an outstanding

00:14:44.929 --> 00:14:49.950
job of explaining what the war dogs are. Thanks,

00:14:50.070 --> 00:14:52.700
Ron. Well, you know, it's always great to get

00:14:52.700 --> 00:14:54.620
the endorsement from the head of the organization

00:14:54.620 --> 00:14:57.860
that knows probably as much about these dogs

00:14:57.860 --> 00:15:02.799
as anybody does. Oh, I try to keep up. This is

00:15:02.799 --> 00:15:06.500
an incredible organization. This is a great place

00:15:06.500 --> 00:15:09.779
to look to if you want to help today's dogs.

00:15:09.980 --> 00:15:11.620
Ron, I'm sure we'll tell you about that, but

00:15:11.620 --> 00:15:15.240
he was in Vietnam, too, with his dog, and he

00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:18.580
has quite some stories. Ron, when were you in

00:15:18.580 --> 00:15:23.419
Vietnam? I arrived in Vietnam March 1966 and

00:15:23.419 --> 00:15:26.960
left in April of 1967. I was one of the first

00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:30.059
30 Marine Scout dog teams to be deployed to Vietnam.

00:15:31.779 --> 00:15:33.299
And the Marines, they were all up in I Corps,

00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:35.899
correct? We were in I Corps, right, where our

00:15:35.899 --> 00:15:38.399
base camp was just outside of Da Nang and then

00:15:38.399 --> 00:15:42.450
we had a temporary base down in Chu Lai. Yeah,

00:15:42.509 --> 00:15:45.370
Ron, this is Vance. I was at Da Nang in 1965,

00:15:45.870 --> 00:15:48.669
and our kennels, the Air Force kennels, were

00:15:48.669 --> 00:15:51.230
temporary, but we were right next to about 6

00:15:51.230 --> 00:15:53.669
,000 Marines, so we were probably the safest

00:15:53.669 --> 00:15:56.529
people on Earth. Yeah, you were on the other

00:15:56.529 --> 00:15:58.490
side of the airstrip, I believe. That's correct.

00:15:58.889 --> 00:16:01.169
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have a good friend that was

00:16:01.169 --> 00:16:05.009
there in 65, Bucky Grimm, he's our treasurer.

00:16:05.009 --> 00:16:10.200
Bucky Grimm, yeah. Yeah, he was Air Force. We

00:16:10.200 --> 00:16:12.340
were there almost around the same time, but we

00:16:12.340 --> 00:16:14.779
really didn't know each other. We met each other

00:16:14.779 --> 00:16:18.460
back in 93 and just became really good friends.

00:16:19.620 --> 00:16:22.460
And I think that usually happens with dog handlers.

00:16:23.419 --> 00:16:25.299
This is what's amazing about this program, as

00:16:25.299 --> 00:16:27.320
you bring people together and you find out, oh,

00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:29.860
I knew you 45 years ago and haven't seen you

00:16:29.860 --> 00:16:34.320
since. That does happen. I know. But I got to

00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:36.700
tell you, Soldier Dogs is just fantastic. It

00:16:36.700 --> 00:16:40.659
goes right from... World War II would study right

00:16:40.659 --> 00:16:43.720
through today's canine teams. Of course, she

00:16:43.720 --> 00:16:48.840
touched base on Cairo. One of the things in the

00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:51.059
book right at the very end, and it's only like

00:16:51.059 --> 00:16:55.460
two pages, but it actually explains what the

00:16:55.460 --> 00:16:59.279
dogs are, what they do, their classification

00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:03.899
as far as their actual job, whether they're patrol

00:17:03.899 --> 00:17:12.160
dogs. She tells you about it. It only takes a

00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:14.680
couple of pages, but most people ask that. What

00:17:14.680 --> 00:17:19.420
do the dogs do over there? She explains it all

00:17:19.420 --> 00:17:23.039
in this book. We're going to go back to Maria

00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:24.960
right now and talk a little bit about that because

00:17:24.960 --> 00:17:28.339
you do a great job of explaining what the various

00:17:28.339 --> 00:17:36.500
categories of these dogs' professions are. The

00:17:36.500 --> 00:17:40.299
thing that you point out to me Maria that I thought

00:17:40.299 --> 00:17:43.220
was really valuable is that dogs are considered

00:17:43.220 --> 00:17:52.220
equipment. Ron has been trying to get that changed

00:17:52.220 --> 00:17:57.500
for many, many years through his actions to just

00:17:57.500 --> 00:18:00.240
get them the right kind of treatment, to get

00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:03.279
them back. from when they're well when they deploy

00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:05.359
they come back that's that's the good thing about

00:18:05.359 --> 00:18:07.880
today's military is if you if you're in Afghanistan

00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:10.319
with your dog as long as you're both you know

00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:13.099
alive you're coming back together and that's

00:18:13.099 --> 00:18:15.079
a obviously a really big change from Vietnam

00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:18.859
but but if you're a dog if you're a dog and handler

00:18:18.859 --> 00:18:23.099
team in let's say Germany and your dog is retired

00:18:23.099 --> 00:18:26.039
in Germany. Your dog right now is going to stay

00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:27.980
in Germany in the kennel where the dog's been

00:18:27.980 --> 00:18:31.259
retired. If someone wants to adopt that dog in

00:18:31.259 --> 00:18:33.220
the US, they're going to have to pay for the

00:18:33.220 --> 00:18:35.900
dog to come back. And that's pretty prohibitive

00:18:35.900 --> 00:18:39.099
sometimes and can prevent some really good possible

00:18:39.099 --> 00:18:42.079
future owners from doing that and from even knowing

00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:45.420
these dogs are up or even trying. And there's

00:18:45.420 --> 00:18:48.279
a bill right now. in Congress and the Senate

00:18:48.279 --> 00:18:51.000
called the Canine Members of the Armed Forces

00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:54.720
Act, which is going, it could really help that.

00:18:55.259 --> 00:18:57.680
It could help dogs become sort of less equipment.

00:18:57.759 --> 00:19:00.000
It will help them come back. It will help them

00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:03.299
get veterinary care for, I think it's just pre

00:19:03.299 --> 00:19:05.000
-existing conditions. Ron, you can maybe help

00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:08.259
me with that one. And also, something Ron and

00:19:08.259 --> 00:19:10.819
his US War Dog Association has been working on

00:19:10.819 --> 00:19:14.160
forever is getting these dogs the recognition

00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:17.519
they so greatly deserve because right now these

00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:22.160
dogs are not officially given honors. If you

00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:24.740
hear about a dog who gets a Purple Heart or any

00:19:24.740 --> 00:19:27.240
kind of recognition, it's not sanctioned by the

00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:30.519
DOD. It's a commanding officer or someone who

00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:33.180
realizes the incredible value of these dogs.

00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:36.319
and wants to do something nice for the dog and

00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:39.660
handler, but the DOD doesn't sanction that right

00:19:39.660 --> 00:19:41.619
now, and the handlers are not too happy about

00:19:41.619 --> 00:19:43.500
that. Ron, I don't know if you can, I know you

00:19:43.500 --> 00:19:46.700
can contribute a whole show on this. Back, I

00:19:46.700 --> 00:19:50.859
guess, right after we went into Afghanistan back

00:19:50.859 --> 00:19:54.420
in late 2001, I had a lot of handlers that were

00:19:54.420 --> 00:19:56.819
emailing me and saying, why can't my dog get

00:19:56.819 --> 00:20:00.720
recognition for what he or she does? That's a

00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:03.339
good question. Why can't they? I wrote to the

00:20:03.339 --> 00:20:08.160
DOD. I think it was at that time Cohen was in

00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:11.480
as Secretary of Defense. I wrote a letter to

00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:15.880
him. Of course, they got back to me and said,

00:20:16.099 --> 00:20:19.220
we don't give recognition to dogs. Medals are

00:20:19.220 --> 00:20:22.500
only for humans. I wrote several times every

00:20:22.500 --> 00:20:26.740
year. Then my last time I wrote to them, I changed

00:20:26.740 --> 00:20:29.579
it a little. I said, look, I'm not asking for

00:20:29.470 --> 00:20:32.109
for any of these medals that go to the soldiers

00:20:32.109 --> 00:20:35.710
or marines or so forth to be used for these dogs.

00:20:35.730 --> 00:20:39.349
I'm asking the DOD to actually create a medal

00:20:39.349 --> 00:20:42.630
specifically for the dog so this way it doesn't

00:20:42.630 --> 00:20:45.789
infringe on any other awards or medals that the

00:20:45.789 --> 00:20:47.990
soldiers get. And of course then they turned

00:20:47.990 --> 00:20:51.630
around and still said no. So my last option was

00:20:51.630 --> 00:20:55.230
we are willing, our organization is willing to

00:20:55.230 --> 00:20:57.950
create a medal, a service award medal for these

00:20:57.950 --> 00:21:00.950
dogs. Would you sanction it? And of course they

00:21:00.950 --> 00:21:04.369
came back and said, well we can't sanction a

00:21:04.369 --> 00:21:07.190
civilian organization. So we went ahead anyway

00:21:07.190 --> 00:21:10.529
and we created our own service award for the

00:21:10.529 --> 00:21:14.049
military dogs and the soldiers, the handlers,

00:21:14.910 --> 00:21:17.670
they make a request. We have a form on our website

00:21:17.670 --> 00:21:20.630
and they send it in and we actually sent out

00:21:20.630 --> 00:21:25.170
a certificate and the medal to the dog. I think

00:21:25.170 --> 00:21:28.029
that's terrific. If you want to get in on a conversation

00:21:28.029 --> 00:21:31.109
about soldier dogs here, we've got experts all

00:21:31.109 --> 00:21:33.109
over the place today. Give us a call here at

00:21:33.109 --> 00:21:37.789
Veterans Radio at 877 -573 -7825. We're talking

00:21:37.789 --> 00:21:40.829
with Maria Godavich, the author of Soldier Dogs.

00:21:40.890 --> 00:21:43.390
We've got the president of the Dog Handlers Association

00:21:43.390 --> 00:21:46.089
on the phone, and we've got a dog handler in

00:21:46.089 --> 00:21:48.990
the studio. So if you have any questions, feel

00:21:48.990 --> 00:21:51.369
free to give us a call. Maria, I wanted to ask

00:21:51.369 --> 00:21:55.420
you about the dogs. What type of dogs are they

00:21:55.420 --> 00:21:57.359
looking for? I know you have a golden retriever

00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:01.220
named Jake who you don't think really could quite

00:22:01.220 --> 00:22:02.779
make it. He's loyal in all the other things,

00:22:02.779 --> 00:22:06.099
but he might get distracted. Yeah, he's actually

00:22:06.099 --> 00:22:08.619
a yellow lab, so speaking of distracted, he's

00:22:08.619 --> 00:22:13.000
a bit goofy, but he has the drive. What they're

00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:16.059
really looking for, yes, breeds are super important,

00:22:16.059 --> 00:22:18.420
but they don't really go along breed lines. If

00:22:18.420 --> 00:22:22.259
you have a mixed breed dog, that's fine. In fact,

00:22:22.619 --> 00:22:25.839
Okay, first of all, we buy, the DOD buys most

00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:28.759
dogs overseas, in Europe and Eastern Europe,

00:22:29.259 --> 00:22:31.660
and that's because they have a very long history

00:22:31.660 --> 00:22:34.759
of, and this is today, I'm not talking historically,

00:22:34.900 --> 00:22:37.900
but today, because they have a long history of

00:22:37.900 --> 00:22:41.779
these police dog sports, and they have been bred

00:22:41.779 --> 00:22:45.220
for kind of the stuff that police and US military

00:22:45.220 --> 00:22:48.660
working dogs do, and so they've got that, and

00:22:48.660 --> 00:22:50.880
apparently the US just does not have that going.

00:22:51.500 --> 00:22:54.240
There are some dogs that we do procure in the

00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:56.900
United States from breeders here, but they're

00:22:56.900 --> 00:22:59.140
very few and far between. So we go over there

00:22:59.140 --> 00:23:02.259
and buy trips about six times a year and look

00:23:02.259 --> 00:23:05.900
for these dogs through these vendors. And they've

00:23:05.900 --> 00:23:09.059
been selected by the breeders, sell them to the

00:23:09.059 --> 00:23:11.200
vendors, and they're about two years old when

00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:14.259
they get them. And generally these days, a lot

00:23:14.259 --> 00:23:17.319
of shepherds and a lot of malinois and Belgian

00:23:17.319 --> 00:23:19.500
malinois, like the dog who was involved on the

00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:23.890
Osama bin Laden raid. and they'll mix other breeds

00:23:23.890 --> 00:23:27.490
into them though. Let's say you want a malinois

00:23:27.490 --> 00:23:31.630
who has a little more stability, a little less,

00:23:31.630 --> 00:23:34.710
say, nervousness. You might put a little shepherd

00:23:34.710 --> 00:23:37.849
in them or sometimes even mix pit bulls or all

00:23:37.849 --> 00:23:39.789
kinds of other breeds in them. So sometimes it's

00:23:39.789 --> 00:23:42.250
hard to tell the difference between certain breeds

00:23:42.250 --> 00:23:44.569
that are military working dogs and they just

00:23:44.569 --> 00:23:47.599
make a guess. say you know this looks more like

00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:50.019
a a melanois because it has this line but it

00:23:50.019 --> 00:23:52.279
could equally be a shepherd so it's very interesting

00:23:52.279 --> 00:23:56.339
but beyond the reed they're looking for and it

00:23:56.339 --> 00:23:58.920
sounds funny but they're looking for the drive

00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:01.819
to play with the ball the drive to find the ball

00:24:01.819 --> 00:24:04.680
so what they do is they'll take a kong and the

00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:06.680
hard red rubber ball usually or a tennis ball

00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:09.900
and they will hide it somewhere and they will

00:24:09.900 --> 00:24:12.990
look for the dogs Drive to find that ball and

00:24:12.990 --> 00:24:15.170
to play with that dog and it's ball and it has

00:24:15.170 --> 00:24:17.849
to be Super strong for them to want that ball

00:24:17.849 --> 00:24:20.750
because that ball and the praise from the handler

00:24:20.750 --> 00:24:24.190
are the two Paychecks as they call it that these

00:24:24.190 --> 00:24:25.910
dogs get and if they don't want their paycheck

00:24:25.910 --> 00:24:28.250
enough They're not they're gonna say, you know,

00:24:28.369 --> 00:24:30.509
dude, you know, it's hot here. I'm gonna guess

00:24:30.509 --> 00:24:32.410
it I don't I don't care about that I'm not gonna

00:24:32.410 --> 00:24:35.109
work and so they don't want that happening over

00:24:35.109 --> 00:24:37.630
there. So they they find these dogs Hopefully

00:24:37.630 --> 00:24:40.109
usually with a high high high drive high play

00:24:40.109 --> 00:24:42.319
and prey drive and then they bring them back

00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:45.099
to the U .S. and train them up at Lackland. And

00:24:45.099 --> 00:24:48.500
then they don't really look for, they don't say,

00:24:48.579 --> 00:24:50.500
okay, well, you know, you look like you could

00:24:50.500 --> 00:24:52.460
be a good combat tracker. You look like you could

00:24:52.460 --> 00:24:54.940
be a good, just a plain old explosive detector.

00:24:55.900 --> 00:24:59.039
They go by need usually. And when they do get

00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:02.400
a dog like a Labrador Retriever, they're not

00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:03.640
going to put them, you know, they're not going

00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:05.140
to be a patrol dog. They're not going to be attacking

00:25:05.140 --> 00:25:07.799
the bad guy or anything. So they'll just be pretty

00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:09.700
much sniffer dogs, sometimes combat trackers

00:25:09.700 --> 00:25:13.759
these days. I met a dog named Lars, I don't know

00:25:13.759 --> 00:25:16.140
if you came across him in the book yet, but he's

00:25:16.140 --> 00:25:18.380
a little Jack Russell Terrier, and he was supposed

00:25:18.380 --> 00:25:21.420
to be a drug sniffing dog, but he ended up being

00:25:21.420 --> 00:25:23.920
trained as a bomb sniffing dog because of a mistake

00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:25.799
at dog school. I don't know what happened, but

00:25:25.799 --> 00:25:27.859
he's a great little bomb sniffer now, he's not

00:25:27.859 --> 00:25:30.119
in the front lines or anything, he's here in

00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:32.339
the U .S., and when I met him he was in a...

00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:34.680
submarine and we went down the submarine together

00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:38.000
and it was an exercise but sure enough he found

00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:41.440
the explosives under a pillow in a bunk and he

00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:43.240
has a little Napoleon attitude. He thinks he

00:25:43.240 --> 00:25:46.900
is just all that and so it can be any breed but

00:25:46.900 --> 00:25:49.119
generally these days shepherds and melons. It's

00:25:49.119 --> 00:25:51.240
interesting for those of you that we do try to

00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:53.140
webcast our program when we have the opportunity

00:25:53.140 --> 00:25:55.259
when the slide that we're showing right now is

00:25:55.259 --> 00:25:59.720
of that dog Lars getting ready to go down in

00:25:59.720 --> 00:26:03.359
the hole of the sub. That's a lot easier than

00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:05.240
a shepherd going down the hole in that sub. That's

00:26:05.240 --> 00:26:07.319
what they seem to usually have on that sub, they

00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:11.079
said. Backbreaking work for the people lowering

00:26:11.079 --> 00:26:14.119
the dog into the sub when it's not a small dog

00:26:14.119 --> 00:26:18.240
like that. They've been using terriers going

00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:21.920
back to early 80s. Lacklin had them and they

00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:24.579
would use them on also aircraft because they're

00:26:24.579 --> 00:26:28.900
a small dog. They can get under seats into small

00:26:28.900 --> 00:26:33.710
crevices to smell for. for explosives. They have

00:26:33.710 --> 00:26:36.190
been using them for quite a while, but they're

00:26:36.190 --> 00:26:38.630
really cute to see when they're working. They

00:26:38.630 --> 00:26:42.869
move so quickly and they do a really good job.

00:26:43.349 --> 00:26:46.190
Yeah. I just thought the whole story was funny.

00:26:46.490 --> 00:26:48.630
I have finished the book. I must say I finished

00:26:48.630 --> 00:26:50.569
it. It might have been pretty early this morning,

00:26:50.609 --> 00:26:54.529
but I did finish it. It's a great read for those

00:26:54.529 --> 00:26:56.450
of you out there that want to know more about

00:26:56.450 --> 00:26:59.460
military dogs or soldier dogs. and really what

00:26:59.460 --> 00:27:01.900
they do and the different types of dogs. And

00:27:01.900 --> 00:27:04.640
we've got about two minutes before we take a

00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:06.259
break at the bottom of the hour. And when we

00:27:06.259 --> 00:27:08.079
come back, I want to talk a little bit about

00:27:08.079 --> 00:27:11.799
the different types of dogs and their different

00:27:11.799 --> 00:27:15.579
specialties. But I've got a call on the line

00:27:15.579 --> 00:27:17.799
from somebody who's going to ask an interesting

00:27:17.799 --> 00:27:19.640
little question, I believe. And it's got Terry

00:27:19.640 --> 00:27:22.539
from Ypsilini, Michigan. And Terry, welcome to

00:27:22.539 --> 00:27:25.819
Veterans Radio. Hi. Thanks for taking my call.

00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:28.410
I understand you had a little question. Yeah,

00:27:28.410 --> 00:27:30.569
this is going to sound dumb but when I think

00:27:30.569 --> 00:27:34.029
back to dogs in the military I go back to the

00:27:34.029 --> 00:27:36.329
days of my youth and think of Rin Tin Tin and

00:27:36.329 --> 00:27:43.990
Rusty and also I also think of Sergeant Preston

00:27:43.990 --> 00:27:46.450
of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and his

00:27:46.450 --> 00:27:49.910
dog Yukon King Yukon King and those kinds of

00:27:49.910 --> 00:27:53.089
portrayals and I just was wondering within the

00:27:53.089 --> 00:27:57.660
your studies of the history going back Were there

00:27:57.660 --> 00:28:02.180
ever dogs like that in the days even before World

00:28:02.180 --> 00:28:07.000
War II? The other portrayal of dogs is always

00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:12.339
as guard dogs, especially the Germans with using

00:28:12.339 --> 00:28:19.299
guard dogs guarding prisoners. Which came first,

00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:23.480
the use of dogs to guard prisoners by the Germans?

00:28:24.369 --> 00:28:26.950
us taking up that whole strategy of utilizing

00:28:26.950 --> 00:28:29.670
dogs or where did that all come from? Well, we

00:28:29.670 --> 00:28:32.730
did, we did. Oh, go ahead. Did someone else chime

00:28:32.730 --> 00:28:36.690
in on that? Okay, we'll take it. We did, we did

00:28:36.690 --> 00:28:40.369
definitely take some, take the lead, well, take,

00:28:40.529 --> 00:28:42.789
follow the lead of the Germans and what was going

00:28:42.789 --> 00:28:45.650
on in Europe. Even in World War One, there were

00:28:45.650 --> 00:28:47.849
people in the U .S. who really wanted to form

00:28:47.849 --> 00:28:51.970
a military dog, well, a military working dog,

00:28:52.009 --> 00:28:55.869
let's say. And they were not, they never happened.

00:28:55.970 --> 00:28:57.869
We were seeing how powerful they were over there,

00:28:58.049 --> 00:29:01.630
not just as guard dogs, but as even dogs who

00:29:01.630 --> 00:29:05.529
would, who would messenger dogs or dogs who would

00:29:05.529 --> 00:29:08.789
drag, drag supplies for the, they called Red

00:29:08.789 --> 00:29:12.910
Cross dogs for the Red Cross or for the medical

00:29:12.910 --> 00:29:16.069
use, you know, from one place to another. And,

00:29:16.190 --> 00:29:19.029
and they, they did have like gas sniffing dogs

00:29:19.029 --> 00:29:21.930
and They were utilized in all kinds of ways,

00:29:21.970 --> 00:29:23.609
even back then, but we didn't get our official

00:29:23.609 --> 00:29:26.970
program going until World War II. I've got to

00:29:26.970 --> 00:29:28.529
jump in here, Maria. We're going to do a hard

00:29:28.529 --> 00:29:30.150
break. We'll be right back here listening to

00:29:30.150 --> 00:29:32.369
Veterans Radio. We're back on Veterans Radio.

00:29:32.450 --> 00:29:34.849
We're talking with Maria Gadavich, the author

00:29:34.849 --> 00:29:37.630
of Soldier Dogs, The Untold Story of America's

00:29:37.630 --> 00:29:40.869
Canine Heroes. Also on the phone is the president

00:29:40.869 --> 00:29:43.609
of the U .S. War Dogs Association, Rana Yalo.

00:29:44.150 --> 00:29:46.609
And in the studio with me is Vance McCrum, a

00:29:46.609 --> 00:29:48.849
dog handler, Air Force dog handler from back

00:29:48.849 --> 00:29:52.349
in the 60s. And we're just finishing up a question

00:29:52.349 --> 00:29:58.670
from a caller about how the soldier dogs evolved

00:29:58.670 --> 00:30:01.589
in U .S. history. And Maria, you were answering

00:30:01.589 --> 00:30:03.630
that question for Terry and Yves Solani. Yeah,

00:30:03.670 --> 00:30:07.009
I think we got up to World War II there when

00:30:07.009 --> 00:30:10.500
we did after the attack on Pearl Harbor. The

00:30:10.500 --> 00:30:13.140
American Kettle Club and a group called Dogs

00:30:13.140 --> 00:30:17.900
for Defense got us going and we said this is

00:30:17.900 --> 00:30:20.460
about time. We need these dogs. They are so important

00:30:20.460 --> 00:30:22.420
to the fight and they're going to really help

00:30:22.420 --> 00:30:25.079
us. And then it was finally okay. World War II

00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:28.079
is when the US dog program officially started.

00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:32.599
And they didn't go overseas to get the dogs from

00:30:32.599 --> 00:30:34.240
places like Germany. That would have not been

00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:37.059
a good thing. They appealed to dog owners here.

00:30:37.369 --> 00:30:40.910
to donate their pets for the war effort and that's

00:30:40.910 --> 00:30:44.089
where you see Rin Tin Tin come in in the movies

00:30:44.089 --> 00:30:46.750
and all that but the public response was absolutely

00:30:46.750 --> 00:30:49.750
overwhelming and people really wanted to donate

00:30:49.750 --> 00:30:52.789
their dogs and you know it was pretty amazing

00:30:52.789 --> 00:30:55.970
what our pet dogs could do and the difference

00:30:55.970 --> 00:31:00.289
in what they do then and what they do now it's

00:31:00.289 --> 00:31:03.109
you know some they're extremely highly trained

00:31:03.109 --> 00:31:06.130
now these dogs we buy but The dogs back then,

00:31:06.150 --> 00:31:09.089
when my dad was in the war, were pretty amazing

00:31:09.089 --> 00:31:12.750
and what they were able to do. They were the

00:31:12.750 --> 00:31:15.109
big heroes and they got a lot of press. I just

00:31:15.109 --> 00:31:17.930
got a book in the mail called Buddies. I don't

00:31:17.930 --> 00:31:20.390
know if any of you know that book. It's absolutely

00:31:20.390 --> 00:31:23.789
gorgeous. It's more about the mascot dogs in

00:31:23.789 --> 00:31:27.009
the various wars. It just shows the companionship

00:31:27.009 --> 00:31:30.009
these dogs provided. Sometimes they did these

00:31:30.009 --> 00:31:32.609
very brave feats in the meantime. Well, and back

00:31:32.609 --> 00:31:35.309
to World War I, you know, Sergeant Stubbe, someone

00:31:35.309 --> 00:31:39.230
had mentioned Sergeant Stubbe, and he untrained,

00:31:39.829 --> 00:31:44.549
alerted to a gas attack by the Germans and saved

00:31:44.549 --> 00:31:47.710
many, many American lives. And he also was able

00:31:47.710 --> 00:31:50.490
to nab a German infiltrator. And this is an untrained

00:31:50.490 --> 00:31:53.000
dog. This is a little pit bull. who saved many

00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:56.059
lives, and I actually visited him recently at

00:31:56.059 --> 00:31:58.680
the Smithsonian Institution's American History

00:31:58.680 --> 00:32:01.119
Museum, where he still stands. So if anyone takes

00:32:01.119 --> 00:32:02.940
a summer vacation, goes to D .C. this summer,

00:32:03.200 --> 00:32:06.619
you can go see an old World War I hero dog, even

00:32:06.619 --> 00:32:08.980
though he wasn't an official military dog, he

00:32:08.980 --> 00:32:12.599
was sneaked overseas. It shows that dogs didn't

00:32:12.599 --> 00:32:15.519
have to be these super highly trained military

00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:18.220
dogs back then. Now we have these amazing soldier

00:32:18.220 --> 00:32:20.680
dogs. who are, but there's a long history, and

00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:24.660
even before World War I, people were using dogs.

00:32:26.619 --> 00:32:30.339
Can I expand on that a little bit? Actually,

00:32:31.500 --> 00:32:34.420
if you look at a lot of photos or images of the

00:32:34.420 --> 00:32:37.099
American Indians, you always see that there were

00:32:37.099 --> 00:32:40.099
dog packs with them, and what they would do is

00:32:40.099 --> 00:32:43.119
when they set up their camp at night, they used

00:32:43.119 --> 00:32:47.900
their dogs as sentry dogs. When the cavalry would

00:32:47.900 --> 00:32:50.579
try to sneak in or raid their camp, when they

00:32:50.579 --> 00:32:52.839
got in there, they would find the fire burning,

00:32:53.380 --> 00:32:56.779
food setting around, but nobody would be in the

00:32:56.779 --> 00:33:00.559
camp because the dog would alert them that the

00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:03.920
cavalry were trying to sneak in. Our cavalry

00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:07.660
actually started to kind of use that a little

00:33:07.660 --> 00:33:10.940
bit themselves on a very limited basis. They

00:33:10.940 --> 00:33:14.329
would actually bring a dog along with them. on

00:33:14.329 --> 00:33:19.609
patrol. That was one of the earlier sensory dogs

00:33:19.609 --> 00:33:24.549
being used in the United States. Good historical

00:33:24.549 --> 00:33:29.069
fact. Thanks Terry for your call. I want to remind

00:33:29.069 --> 00:33:32.230
people to go to Maria's website for this book

00:33:32.230 --> 00:33:35.230
at www .soldierdogs .com and there's a great

00:33:35.230 --> 00:33:37.650
selection of photographs. The book includes great

00:33:37.650 --> 00:33:39.670
photographs also of the various dogs that she

00:33:39.670 --> 00:33:42.720
talks about in the book and their handlers. and

00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:45.079
there is even a picture of the dog in the Smithsonian

00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:47.359
who was, you know, something like Roy Rogers

00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:54.559
in Trigger. They live forever. Could you just

00:33:54.559 --> 00:33:57.519
tell me a little bit, Maria, about the different

00:33:57.519 --> 00:33:59.680
types of dogs? Because you mentioned that each,

00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:02.480
not their breed or anything, but their skill

00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:05.299
levels, what they learn in school. No, they're

00:34:05.299 --> 00:34:06.460
specialties. They're specialties for their jobs.

00:34:07.359 --> 00:34:11.420
Yeah, well today the most important job are the

00:34:11.420 --> 00:34:14.719
ones who sniff out the bomb. So they're either

00:34:14.719 --> 00:34:17.619
explosives detection dogs or patrol explosives

00:34:17.619 --> 00:34:20.179
detection dogs. I'd say they're called PEDs or

00:34:20.179 --> 00:34:22.800
EDs, and the PEDs, the P -E -D -Ds, the Patrol

00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:25.619
Explosive Detection Dogs, are the ones who are

00:34:25.619 --> 00:34:30.980
most commonly used in today's fight. Everyone's

00:34:30.980 --> 00:34:33.219
life is in their nose, basically, and they lead

00:34:33.219 --> 00:34:35.400
the troops through these mine -infected fields

00:34:35.400 --> 00:34:40.079
or buildings. poppy fields, grape vine areas,

00:34:40.139 --> 00:34:42.079
and it's just incredible what they can do and

00:34:42.079 --> 00:34:44.139
what they sniff out in the conditions. So they

00:34:44.139 --> 00:34:46.340
lead the way, then the handler, sometimes there's

00:34:46.340 --> 00:34:48.780
a minesweeper up there too, and all these other

00:34:48.780 --> 00:34:52.179
troops are behind them. And they depend on this

00:34:52.179 --> 00:34:55.400
dog's nose to prevent them from walking on or

00:34:55.400 --> 00:34:57.239
setting off these IEDs, which are the number

00:34:57.239 --> 00:35:00.239
one killer in Afghanistan. And dogs have saved

00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:02.039
so many lives, you can't quantify because you

00:35:02.039 --> 00:35:03.679
don't know how many lives a dog actually saves

00:35:03.679 --> 00:35:06.619
when you sniff out a bomb. But it's incredible,

00:35:06.900 --> 00:35:14.900
and that's the main use today of these dogs.

00:35:15.980 --> 00:35:21.400
So the nose is everything with the dog now. And

00:35:21.400 --> 00:35:24.039
certainly, they have drug -sniffing dogs as well.

00:35:24.900 --> 00:35:27.519
And one of the really interesting dog jobs, I

00:35:27.519 --> 00:35:33.980
think, is combat tracker dogs. Explosives dogs

00:35:33.980 --> 00:35:35.920
sniff out the explosives. The combat tracker

00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:39.500
dogs, they sniff out the guy who planted the

00:35:39.500 --> 00:35:42.039
explosives. So they're the ones who can track

00:35:42.039 --> 00:35:44.780
through time, in a way. These dogs, the people

00:35:44.780 --> 00:35:47.820
who plant the bombs, and we've found so many

00:35:47.820 --> 00:35:50.760
people that way, or just the guy running away,

00:35:50.780 --> 00:35:52.940
the bad guy. They can actually find the good

00:35:52.940 --> 00:35:55.460
guy too. Someone's lost, someone's missing, they

00:35:55.460 --> 00:35:59.139
found kids, they're incredible. Again, everyone's

00:35:59.139 --> 00:36:03.889
life depends on their nose. And as Ron and Vince

00:36:03.889 --> 00:36:09.190
can attest to, it's the bond that forms when

00:36:09.190 --> 00:36:12.250
you're over there deployed 24 -7, depending on

00:36:12.250 --> 00:36:14.929
the dog's nose, and your life depends on him,

00:36:14.989 --> 00:36:18.650
and he depends on you or she. It's incredible,

00:36:18.690 --> 00:36:20.590
and I feel like they can speak to this much better.

00:36:20.610 --> 00:36:23.949
I do deal a lot with that in the book, but everyone

00:36:23.949 --> 00:36:28.170
is just so dependent. You do depend on each other,

00:36:29.409 --> 00:36:32.500
and century dogs, They'd be out on patrol at

00:36:32.500 --> 00:36:37.000
night in a section of the perimeter. They'd be

00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:38.579
patrolling back and forth, and it's just the

00:36:38.579 --> 00:36:43.179
two of them depending on each other. We know

00:36:43.179 --> 00:36:48.840
about Nemo in Vietnam, what Thornburg and Nemo

00:36:48.840 --> 00:36:53.159
did that evening. What a bond that forms between

00:36:53.159 --> 00:36:58.539
those two. They both depend on each other. Yeah,

00:36:58.679 --> 00:37:00.539
and same thing with scout dogs. You know, you're

00:37:00.539 --> 00:37:03.639
out there on a patrol out front leading a patrol.

00:37:03.739 --> 00:37:05.780
You're kind of like the first line of defense

00:37:05.780 --> 00:37:09.420
with that patrol. And the two of you just totally

00:37:09.420 --> 00:37:11.960
depend on each other to protect each other. Hey,

00:37:12.059 --> 00:37:17.019
Ron, this is Vance. Would you go into Airman

00:37:17.019 --> 00:37:20.639
Thornburg and Nemo's event that evening down

00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:26.179
at Thompson? Thornburg and Nemo, they were at

00:37:26.179 --> 00:37:29.820
the Pantanute Air Base in South Vietnam and they

00:37:29.820 --> 00:37:32.320
had been having problems with that air base with

00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:35.239
the infiltration, the Viet Cong trying to infiltrate

00:37:35.239 --> 00:37:38.099
for several nights. And on this particular night,

00:37:38.380 --> 00:37:40.900
Thornburg and Nemo were working their section

00:37:40.900 --> 00:37:44.300
of the perimeter and Nemo alerted out into the

00:37:44.300 --> 00:37:47.019
darkness and Thornburg kind of looked out there

00:37:47.019 --> 00:37:48.659
and he's looking and all of a sudden he sees

00:37:48.659 --> 00:37:50.880
three, four Viet Cong coming in their arms. They

00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:53.659
got satchel charges and everything. So there's

00:37:53.659 --> 00:37:56.079
no time to call him for backup, so what he does

00:37:56.079 --> 00:37:59.119
is he starts firing at them and he releases Nemo,

00:37:59.219 --> 00:38:02.519
and Nemo goes in for the attack. They fire back,

00:38:03.380 --> 00:38:05.019
Thornburg gets shot in the shoulder, he goes

00:38:05.019 --> 00:38:09.139
down, and as he's laying on the ground, he looks

00:38:09.139 --> 00:38:11.780
out into the darkness and you see Nemo's attacking

00:38:11.780 --> 00:38:14.699
these three, four Vietcong. So this gives him

00:38:14.699 --> 00:38:17.019
enough time, Thornburg enough time to actually

00:38:17.019 --> 00:38:19.440
get his radio and call in for backup. Well, by

00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:22.539
the time backup came in, Thornburg was on the

00:38:22.539 --> 00:38:25.519
ground, passed out on his back. Nemo was laying

00:38:25.519 --> 00:38:29.460
across his chest. The Vietcong were gone except

00:38:29.460 --> 00:38:33.260
one was dead. And what was amazing about the

00:38:33.260 --> 00:38:36.400
story, Nemo immediately came back to his handler

00:38:36.400 --> 00:38:42.019
and laid across his chest to protect him. But

00:38:42.019 --> 00:38:46.639
Nemo also had his right eye shot out. When he

00:38:46.639 --> 00:38:49.219
first went in for the attack, the Vietcong shot

00:38:49.219 --> 00:38:52.340
him. blew out his right eye, came out the side

00:38:52.340 --> 00:38:55.500
of his jaw, tore a big gash. But he continued

00:38:55.500 --> 00:38:58.099
the fight via comms because this is what he's

00:38:58.099 --> 00:39:01.360
been trained to do. And then once they retreated,

00:39:01.500 --> 00:39:03.980
the first thing in his mind was to go back and

00:39:03.980 --> 00:39:08.159
protect his comrade, his friend, his buddy. And

00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:12.139
that's Nemo's story. Of course, he wasn't able

00:39:12.139 --> 00:39:14.860
to work after that. I think they actually tried

00:39:14.860 --> 00:39:16.679
to see if they could work him, but he couldn't.

00:39:16.760 --> 00:39:19.219
So he came back to the States and he was kind

00:39:19.219 --> 00:39:22.960
of a hero and went around the country. They have

00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:26.059
a small memorial at Lackland Air Force Base for

00:39:26.059 --> 00:39:30.119
Nemo at this point. There are many stories like

00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:33.820
Nemo. It sounds like in your book you have many

00:39:33.820 --> 00:39:36.780
of them in there that you talk about where these

00:39:36.780 --> 00:39:40.760
dogs go that extra mile. to protect their handlers.

00:39:40.980 --> 00:39:42.300
In addition to the handlers, of course, going

00:39:42.300 --> 00:39:44.800
the extra mile to protect their dogs, too. Right.

00:39:44.980 --> 00:39:49.460
It goes around. That bond is both ways. And there's

00:39:49.460 --> 00:39:52.840
one, remind me of the NEMO story in a way, but

00:39:52.840 --> 00:39:55.559
just there was a handler, a Marine dog handler,

00:39:55.699 --> 00:39:59.179
Mark Vierig, who was, he was on a long mission

00:39:59.179 --> 00:40:03.260
in Afghanistan, and his dog, they had to sleep

00:40:03.260 --> 00:40:06.719
in foxholes. And every night, and he, He'd tuck

00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:09.659
in his dog next to him in the foxhole, and it

00:40:09.659 --> 00:40:13.480
was the rainy season in Afghanistan, and he'd

00:40:13.480 --> 00:40:15.360
have to wake up a couple times a night to get

00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:16.679
the water out, because even though it's covered

00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:18.619
by tarp, of course there's water pouring in.

00:40:19.199 --> 00:40:21.260
And he'd look, the first night this happened,

00:40:21.380 --> 00:40:23.059
it was the weirdest thing, because his dog wasn't

00:40:23.059 --> 00:40:26.420
there. And he thought, oh my god, where's Lex?

00:40:26.840 --> 00:40:29.579
And he peeled open the tarp, and there's Lex

00:40:29.579 --> 00:40:32.260
standing there. on all fours standing with his

00:40:32.260 --> 00:40:34.539
ears alert, he's a Belgian Malinois, his ears

00:40:34.539 --> 00:40:38.739
up just standing as this man's personal sentry,

00:40:39.219 --> 00:40:42.800
protecting his man all night and the dog did

00:40:42.800 --> 00:40:44.659
not want to come back in and he finally dragged

00:40:44.659 --> 00:40:47.599
him back in and sure enough next time he'd wake

00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:49.119
up the dog was standing there in the pouring

00:40:49.119 --> 00:40:51.760
rain. This happened for a month, pretty much

00:40:51.760 --> 00:40:53.800
every night the dog was out there and he asked

00:40:53.800 --> 00:40:56.170
the dog, when do you sleep dog? And the dog didn't

00:40:56.170 --> 00:40:58.449
answer, but you know, he was just an amazing

00:40:58.449 --> 00:41:01.429
dog and that kind of bond is incredible. There's

00:41:01.429 --> 00:41:06.010
another dog in the book who, Patrick, who he's

00:41:06.010 --> 00:41:08.409
really, you know, you're in a firefight, you

00:41:08.409 --> 00:41:12.409
got your dog beside you and this dog, you know,

00:41:12.550 --> 00:41:15.110
some dogs are a little gun shy. This dog, he

00:41:15.110 --> 00:41:17.369
was so mellow, he's eating grass while there's

00:41:17.369 --> 00:41:19.550
a major firefight going on with the Taliban.

00:41:19.909 --> 00:41:22.449
And he had that kind of mellow personality, but

00:41:22.449 --> 00:41:26.670
he would be there. protect him at any cost, and

00:41:26.670 --> 00:41:30.409
he paid the final cost. Unfortunately, he was

00:41:30.409 --> 00:41:33.929
leading some of these guys through a poppy field

00:41:33.929 --> 00:41:37.250
and looking for some IDs they knew were planted.

00:41:38.369 --> 00:41:42.849
And what a dog does when he or she finds a bomb

00:41:42.849 --> 00:41:45.590
is they alert in some ways, and it depends on

00:41:45.590 --> 00:41:47.170
how the dog's been trained and their personality,

00:41:47.570 --> 00:41:49.590
but sometimes they'll lie down, sometimes they'll

00:41:49.590 --> 00:41:51.849
sit, sometimes it's just a slight change of behavior,

00:41:52.010 --> 00:41:54.920
a wag of a tail. a little tilt of the head, so

00:41:54.920 --> 00:41:57.019
the handler has to know really, really well,

00:41:57.280 --> 00:42:01.000
know their dog, and this time, but this dog usually

00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:04.360
lay down, this time, this dog lay down super

00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:06.900
fast, faster than the handler had ever seen him

00:42:06.900 --> 00:42:09.460
lie down, and that was the last we saw of him.

00:42:09.940 --> 00:42:13.059
He apparently lay down right on the IED, and

00:42:13.059 --> 00:42:17.079
it was, and... He saved their lives in doing

00:42:17.079 --> 00:42:18.340
so. I've got to take a break. I've got to take

00:42:18.340 --> 00:42:21.059
a break, so hold on. We'll be right back. And

00:42:21.059 --> 00:42:23.340
we're back on Veterans Radio and we are talking

00:42:23.340 --> 00:42:29.820
with Maria Gadavage about her book, Soldier Dogs.

00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:33.260
And, you know, your book is amazing, Maria, and

00:42:33.260 --> 00:42:36.139
I'm really, I'm so pleased that I was able to

00:42:36.139 --> 00:42:38.260
read it. And I know Vance has already swiped

00:42:38.260 --> 00:42:41.300
it from me. So let's see if we can inflate it.

00:42:41.400 --> 00:42:43.219
But you mentioned so many different stories in

00:42:43.219 --> 00:42:44.619
there and unfortunately we're not going to have

00:42:44.619 --> 00:42:47.199
enough time to go into too many of them. But

00:42:47.199 --> 00:42:53.179
I would like to talk about the Fenji. Fenji M675.

00:42:54.599 --> 00:42:58.019
Yeah, I have to be careful in talking about Fenji

00:42:58.019 --> 00:43:01.940
because she goes through the book and we don't

00:43:01.940 --> 00:43:02.619
find out. I don't want to give the whole story

00:43:02.619 --> 00:43:04.659
away. Yeah, we don't find out really what happens

00:43:04.659 --> 00:43:08.630
to her but I met her at what they call Afghanistan

00:43:08.630 --> 00:43:11.690
USA, what we're calling, which is the Yuma Proving

00:43:11.690 --> 00:43:15.230
Grounds, Yuma Proving Ground where there's this

00:43:15.230 --> 00:43:18.070
incredible pre -deployment program, the inter

00:43:18.070 --> 00:43:21.969
-services advanced training, canine training,

00:43:22.630 --> 00:43:24.929
and this is where you need to go if you're a

00:43:24.929 --> 00:43:27.170
dog and handler these days before you go over

00:43:27.170 --> 00:43:30.150
to Afghanistan or Iraq because the conditions

00:43:30.150 --> 00:43:33.750
are so similar and they have They have mock buildings

00:43:33.750 --> 00:43:37.590
and the ammo and the mortar and everyone tells

00:43:37.590 --> 00:43:40.449
me that it is the closest you can come in the

00:43:40.449 --> 00:43:43.949
U .S. And while I was there I saw this dog wearing

00:43:43.949 --> 00:43:47.150
doggles or dog goggles and that intrigued me

00:43:47.150 --> 00:43:50.510
because I knew we had a dog with doggles on the

00:43:50.510 --> 00:43:52.829
cover of the book at that point and so I had

00:43:52.829 --> 00:43:56.190
to go meet Fenji and I got her story and she

00:43:56.190 --> 00:44:01.170
was redeploying. after a terrible tragedy involving

00:44:01.170 --> 00:44:05.369
her Marine handler, Max Donahue, Corporal Max

00:44:05.369 --> 00:44:08.329
Donahue. And they had been incredibly close.

00:44:09.190 --> 00:44:11.190
And I'm not going to go into what happened because

00:44:11.190 --> 00:44:13.969
people will want to find out on their own. But

00:44:13.969 --> 00:44:18.389
this is a kind of a typical soldier dog or Marine

00:44:18.389 --> 00:44:21.650
dog, American canine hero, where she went through

00:44:21.650 --> 00:44:24.650
hell and back. And guess what? She's in pre -deployment.

00:44:24.730 --> 00:44:26.989
She's back over there now, again, serving the

00:44:26.989 --> 00:44:30.019
country. serving her handler, saving lives, and

00:44:30.019 --> 00:44:31.599
she's not coming back for a few more months.

00:44:31.619 --> 00:44:34.840
She's over there right now. So, incredible dog.

00:44:34.960 --> 00:44:37.739
And after all she'd been through, and I was there

00:44:37.739 --> 00:44:41.559
on her first couple of days of training, or pre

00:44:41.559 --> 00:44:44.679
-deployment training, she was not gun shy. She

00:44:44.679 --> 00:44:47.000
had come through it. She had gotten a lot of

00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:50.440
tender loving care in the meantime, and she'd

00:44:50.440 --> 00:44:53.079
been gradually acclimated back to the work. And

00:44:53.079 --> 00:44:55.320
she was ready to roll, and she's over there now.

00:44:55.340 --> 00:44:59.039
So I send my... Best wishes to her and her current

00:44:59.039 --> 00:45:01.719
handler, Corporal Shepard. So in other words,

00:45:01.860 --> 00:45:05.559
it sounds like she had PTSD? She did not, actually.

00:45:06.099 --> 00:45:09.900
She did not have it. She was a little gun -shy

00:45:09.900 --> 00:45:12.880
at first, but PTSD, I'm glad you brought that

00:45:12.880 --> 00:45:15.940
up. I'll get back to her. She was pretty good.

00:45:16.159 --> 00:45:18.900
They told us that she did not actually officially

00:45:18.900 --> 00:45:21.420
qualify to have PTSD. They just gave her a lot

00:45:21.420 --> 00:45:25.519
of R &R because she was physically injured. hearing

00:45:25.519 --> 00:45:28.239
her eyesight were really kind of blown for a

00:45:28.239 --> 00:45:30.500
while. She was bleeding out her ears after this

00:45:30.500 --> 00:45:33.400
event that happened over in Afghanistan, but

00:45:33.400 --> 00:45:38.119
once she was physically rested and mentally rested,

00:45:38.159 --> 00:45:40.980
she was okay. She didn't need the drug therapy

00:45:40.980 --> 00:45:43.159
that a lot of these dogs get, but I'm really

00:45:43.159 --> 00:45:45.880
glad you mentioned PTSD because that is something

00:45:45.880 --> 00:45:49.019
that the Military Working Dog Program and the

00:45:49.019 --> 00:45:52.280
DOD are finally recognizing that dogs... can

00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:55.239
get PTSD. They call it canine PTSD. Of course,

00:45:55.320 --> 00:45:56.820
the symptoms are slightly different. They call

00:45:56.820 --> 00:46:02.059
them signs. But the signs include hypervigilance,

00:46:02.559 --> 00:46:04.739
increased startle response, the attempt to run

00:46:04.739 --> 00:46:06.760
away or escape, withdrawal, change the rapport

00:46:06.760 --> 00:46:10.599
with the handler. And they're scared of things

00:46:10.599 --> 00:46:12.639
that they would never normally be scared of.

00:46:14.079 --> 00:46:16.780
And they do recognize that this is a disorder

00:46:16.780 --> 00:46:19.380
in these dogs. And they're reaching out to do

00:46:19.380 --> 00:46:22.110
more research. to treat these dogs. I mean, we

00:46:22.110 --> 00:46:25.349
haven't got a handle on it with people, and they're

00:46:25.349 --> 00:46:29.989
learning from PTSD in people what they can do

00:46:29.989 --> 00:46:32.530
and can't do in dogs. And it's, of course, completely

00:46:32.530 --> 00:46:34.489
different in some ways, but they do share some

00:46:34.489 --> 00:46:37.289
similarities. And these dogs now, about a quarter

00:46:37.289 --> 00:46:39.949
of them who are the dogs who are diagnosed with

00:46:39.949 --> 00:46:42.489
this will not be going back to the fight, and

00:46:42.489 --> 00:46:45.610
they'll be adopted out. And I actually met one

00:46:45.610 --> 00:46:48.769
of these dogs in the kennels in in Lackland and

00:46:48.769 --> 00:46:50.190
all these other dogs with the adoption kennels

00:46:50.190 --> 00:46:51.929
and all these other dogs, the Malinois and the

00:46:51.929 --> 00:46:53.869
Sheps and everyone else, where they were barking

00:46:53.869 --> 00:46:56.190
and twirling and doing their usual energetic

00:46:56.190 --> 00:46:58.750
kennel thing. And there was this one chocolate

00:46:58.750 --> 00:47:00.909
lab curled up and just looking out into space

00:47:00.909 --> 00:47:04.929
and not even looking at me, just oblivious to

00:47:04.929 --> 00:47:06.489
the surroundings it seemed. And I said, whoa,

00:47:06.550 --> 00:47:09.010
what's with that dog? And he said, yeah, he heard

00:47:09.010 --> 00:47:11.349
one too many bombs. He's got PTSD. They don't

00:47:11.349 --> 00:47:14.030
know exactly what set it off, of course, but

00:47:14.030 --> 00:47:16.269
he was in Afghanistan and he was a sniffer dog.

00:47:16.699 --> 00:47:21.019
and something happened. I'm told by veterinarians

00:47:21.019 --> 00:47:24.039
there that these sporting dog breeds like Labs

00:47:24.039 --> 00:47:25.960
are more prone to get it than the other breeds.

00:47:26.980 --> 00:47:29.059
He received all the possible treatments, the

00:47:29.059 --> 00:47:31.539
drug intervention, the rest, and nothing worked,

00:47:31.559 --> 00:47:33.920
so he was adopted out. I'm actually going to

00:47:33.920 --> 00:47:36.760
go see him when I go back to Lackland at the

00:47:36.760 --> 00:47:38.800
end of the month for the military working dog

00:47:38.800 --> 00:47:41.719
competition. I'm going to meet his new owners

00:47:41.719 --> 00:47:43.940
who love him to death. They are doing so much

00:47:43.940 --> 00:47:46.679
for him. They adopted a a puppy for him and that

00:47:46.679 --> 00:47:48.920
really seems to have brought him partly out of

00:47:48.920 --> 00:47:52.019
this and he's really doing very, very well. He

00:47:52.019 --> 00:47:54.519
still has his signs of this and he's not over

00:47:54.519 --> 00:47:56.960
it, of course, but it's great to see that they

00:47:56.960 --> 00:47:59.900
do at least recognize this now. We've talked

00:47:59.900 --> 00:48:02.099
a lot about the different types of dogs that

00:48:02.099 --> 00:48:04.460
go through the training with the soldier dogs

00:48:04.460 --> 00:48:06.940
or the various services. Can you tell me a little

00:48:06.940 --> 00:48:09.039
bit about what they're looking for in the handlers?

00:48:11.019 --> 00:48:13.420
Yeah, well the handler has to really want to

00:48:13.420 --> 00:48:15.219
do this. First of all, the handlers that we're

00:48:15.219 --> 00:48:18.860
talking about in the book mostly are military

00:48:18.860 --> 00:48:21.599
police equivalents, so whatever branch of service

00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:25.400
that is. They're the ones who are in law enforcement,

00:48:26.559 --> 00:48:28.360
and although I should say there are exceptions,

00:48:28.579 --> 00:48:31.480
there's the Marine IDD program where they are

00:48:31.480 --> 00:48:34.860
not. It's a different program though, and it's

00:48:34.860 --> 00:48:37.380
probably fairly short -lived. It was an emergency

00:48:37.380 --> 00:48:40.699
program called for by Petraeus. the standard

00:48:40.699 --> 00:48:44.039
military dog handler is in law enforcement in

00:48:44.039 --> 00:48:47.539
the military and so that's number one. Number

00:48:47.539 --> 00:48:50.199
two, you have to really want to be a dog handler

00:48:50.199 --> 00:48:53.940
these days because they are, it's a highly coveted

00:48:53.940 --> 00:48:57.119
job, it's prestigious and you have to love dogs,

00:48:57.239 --> 00:49:00.079
not be afraid of dogs. Sometimes people get all

00:49:00.079 --> 00:49:02.119
the way through training, part way through training

00:49:02.119 --> 00:49:05.059
and then they meet their dog and they don't realize

00:49:05.059 --> 00:49:09.039
the power of these dogs and the level of of energy

00:49:09.039 --> 00:49:12.039
these dogs have and sometimes the handler just

00:49:12.039 --> 00:49:13.960
goes, yeah, I can't do this. And then they go

00:49:13.960 --> 00:49:16.019
back to regular MP work and someone else, some

00:49:16.019 --> 00:49:17.900
other lucky soul gets to work with that dog.

00:49:18.239 --> 00:49:20.679
And you have to be willing, you have to be very

00:49:20.679 --> 00:49:22.760
physically, well, you should be very physically

00:49:22.760 --> 00:49:25.260
fit. Some are more than others, but you have

00:49:25.260 --> 00:49:26.840
to be willing to take the bite because you've

00:49:26.840 --> 00:49:29.139
got to wear that sleeve or wear that bite suit

00:49:29.139 --> 00:49:31.780
and have dogs running at you at who knows how

00:49:31.780 --> 00:49:34.300
many miles per hour and take the, if you're going

00:49:34.300 --> 00:49:35.960
to be a patrol handler and even if you're not,

00:49:36.039 --> 00:49:37.940
you have to know how to. how to handle these

00:49:37.940 --> 00:49:41.280
dogs. A lot of these people have not been brought

00:49:41.280 --> 00:49:44.599
up with dogs. Many have, but some just love dogs

00:49:44.599 --> 00:49:47.980
so much. They have to pay their dues. I met some

00:49:47.980 --> 00:49:51.800
Navy handlers who spent two years helping around

00:49:51.800 --> 00:49:54.760
the kennels. They were MPs, well, the Navy is

00:49:54.760 --> 00:49:58.940
equivalent to Masters of the Arms. They were

00:49:58.940 --> 00:50:00.960
shoveling poop, they were cleaning the kennels,

00:50:01.079 --> 00:50:03.909
they were taking the bites. They were just doing

00:50:03.909 --> 00:50:06.190
whatever they could to prove that they want to

00:50:06.190 --> 00:50:08.989
do this. And so they are so happy by the time

00:50:08.989 --> 00:50:12.230
they finally get to Lackland and get to go to

00:50:12.230 --> 00:50:14.250
the handler's course. So they have that drive

00:50:14.250 --> 00:50:18.510
to be with the dog. And they seem to have, they

00:50:18.510 --> 00:50:21.809
are amazed. When I talk to the young, the new

00:50:21.809 --> 00:50:24.389
handlers, the people at dog school, they're amazed

00:50:24.389 --> 00:50:26.329
at how much they've fallen in love with their

00:50:26.329 --> 00:50:28.869
dog so fast. Because these dogs, they have dogs

00:50:28.869 --> 00:50:31.070
at dog schools, you can imagine, or a handler's

00:50:31.070 --> 00:50:34.860
course, who help train. these handlers so they're

00:50:34.860 --> 00:50:37.119
called training aids and these are dogs who may

00:50:37.119 --> 00:50:39.400
have served and gotten a little bit too old or

00:50:39.400 --> 00:50:41.460
not quite right for serving but they can be here

00:50:41.460 --> 00:50:44.460
in the U .S. serving as teachers and same with

00:50:44.460 --> 00:50:46.920
they may be washouts they may not be ready to

00:50:46.920 --> 00:50:49.599
go they may not ever be able to go overseas or

00:50:49.599 --> 00:50:52.510
and serve in war but they're here to help, they've

00:50:52.510 --> 00:50:54.150
been trained up enough so that they can help

00:50:54.150 --> 00:50:56.510
a handler, a new handler learn. And so some of

00:50:56.510 --> 00:50:58.449
these guys are like, yeah, my dog taught me everything.

00:50:58.469 --> 00:51:00.190
You know, it's like, hey, you know, come over

00:51:00.190 --> 00:51:01.949
here, buddy, and I'll sniff out the bomb for

00:51:01.949 --> 00:51:03.929
you. You give me my Kong and we're good. So they

00:51:03.929 --> 00:51:06.469
learn from these dogs who are kind of sages and

00:51:06.469 --> 00:51:08.550
then these dogs can get adopted out as well.

00:51:08.590 --> 00:51:11.489
So it's quite a program and there's a lot of

00:51:11.489 --> 00:51:13.989
love there. You mentioned in the book and we're

00:51:13.989 --> 00:51:15.989
coming up, we've got about four minutes left

00:51:15.989 --> 00:51:19.429
and the time is sped by too quickly as usual.

00:51:19.690 --> 00:51:22.130
But you mentioned in the book about the adoption

00:51:22.130 --> 00:51:24.449
programs, about the incredible medical care that

00:51:24.449 --> 00:51:28.849
these dogs receive now. The facilities are equivalent

00:51:28.849 --> 00:51:31.670
to and in some cases better than some of them

00:51:31.670 --> 00:51:34.010
some humans get. It sounded like it lacked one.

00:51:34.710 --> 00:51:39.090
But you said that there's been an upsurge in

00:51:39.090 --> 00:51:42.610
the adoption of these animals. And some of them

00:51:42.610 --> 00:51:44.730
are physically scarred, some of them are mentally

00:51:44.730 --> 00:51:46.550
scarred, and some of them are just getting old.

00:51:47.639 --> 00:51:50.159
Right and but what's interesting is everybody

00:51:50.159 --> 00:51:53.340
after after the bin Laden raid everybody was

00:51:53.340 --> 00:51:55.960
calling Lachlan saying I want to adopt Cairo

00:51:55.960 --> 00:51:58.320
the dog who was involved in the raid and they're

00:51:58.320 --> 00:52:00.159
like oh yeah we don't have Cairo but we do have

00:52:00.159 --> 00:52:03.199
other dogs and so the list got to be about 18

00:52:03.199 --> 00:52:06.539
months long for for adopting and they vet them

00:52:06.539 --> 00:52:08.360
too so they're not going to take everybody who

00:52:08.360 --> 00:52:09.719
wants to adopt a military dog because there are

00:52:09.719 --> 00:52:11.380
people who want to adopt a dog for long reasons

00:52:11.380 --> 00:52:14.360
too so they they're right now currently almost

00:52:14.360 --> 00:52:16.929
18 months if you want to adopt on these dogs

00:52:16.929 --> 00:52:19.070
and generally they're not going to be dogs who

00:52:19.070 --> 00:52:22.869
have deployed with a handler because that handler

00:52:22.869 --> 00:52:24.849
or another handler is probably going to be first

00:52:24.849 --> 00:52:26.869
on the list and really want that dog and fight

00:52:26.869 --> 00:52:29.070
to get that dog and handlers and other law enforcement

00:52:29.070 --> 00:52:31.909
are first on the list. But it's absolutely a

00:52:31.909 --> 00:52:34.449
completely worthy program and Ron helps people

00:52:34.449 --> 00:52:37.170
with that and I definitely want to give a plug

00:52:37.170 --> 00:52:40.869
to Ron's group. Because it's, you definitely,

00:52:41.010 --> 00:52:43.750
Ron, give your website, because if people really

00:52:43.750 --> 00:52:46.230
want to know how to support these dog teams and

00:52:46.230 --> 00:52:49.349
what they can do, and his organization is my

00:52:49.349 --> 00:52:51.969
favorite, it's the Primo one, and I don't know

00:52:51.969 --> 00:52:53.789
if we have time, but tell a little about what

00:52:53.789 --> 00:52:56.050
you can do for the dogs and how you can support

00:52:56.050 --> 00:53:01.789
them. Well, our website is uswardogs .org. and

00:53:01.789 --> 00:53:04.590
we have a lot of information on there for adopting

00:53:04.590 --> 00:53:07.849
dogs or supporting the K -9 teams that are serving

00:53:07.849 --> 00:53:12.429
in the Middle East. It's all there for you to

00:53:12.429 --> 00:53:15.090
read and my contact information is right there

00:53:15.090 --> 00:53:17.570
on the website. You can email me, phone me and

00:53:17.570 --> 00:53:19.989
I'll give you whatever information you need.

00:53:20.710 --> 00:53:23.030
One point I'd like to make real quick, we keep

00:53:23.030 --> 00:53:27.389
mentioning Lackland Air Force Base and just for

00:53:27.389 --> 00:53:31.300
your listeners, That is where the National War

00:53:31.300 --> 00:53:34.900
Dog Memorial will be located now, will be at

00:53:34.900 --> 00:53:36.659
Lackland Air Force Base and it will probably

00:53:36.659 --> 00:53:38.539
be about two years before they actually have

00:53:38.539 --> 00:53:41.460
a dedication. Alright, well we can find out more

00:53:41.460 --> 00:53:44.300
information about that. Thank you so very much,

00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:47.440
Ron, for being on Veterans Radio. Thank you.

00:53:48.159 --> 00:53:50.239
Maria, I wanted to thank you so very much. I

00:53:50.239 --> 00:53:52.119
can't wait to have you back on again and talk

00:53:52.119 --> 00:53:54.079
more about this because there's so much information

00:53:54.079 --> 00:53:56.670
inside of this book. that I think our audiences

00:53:56.670 --> 00:53:58.750
would love to know about. It's Soldier Dogs,

00:53:58.869 --> 00:54:01.190
the untold story of America's canine heroes.

00:54:01.610 --> 00:54:04.210
Go to her website, soldierdogs .com. You're going

00:54:04.210 --> 00:54:06.550
to get great information and some great pictures.

00:54:07.449 --> 00:54:09.170
Thank you so much. It was a pleasure being here.

00:54:09.329 --> 00:54:12.150
Thank you very much, Maria. Thank you. Thank

00:54:12.150 --> 00:54:14.349
you both. And Vance, I want to just add, we've

00:54:14.349 --> 00:54:17.550
got about a minute to go. And I know, in reading

00:54:17.550 --> 00:54:19.909
her book and in talking to you, that your dogs,

00:54:20.050 --> 00:54:21.949
all three of them, were very special to you.

00:54:22.110 --> 00:54:24.349
Oh, absolutely. There's a bond that's formed

00:54:24.349 --> 00:54:27.769
whether you served in a war zone or whether you

00:54:27.769 --> 00:54:31.090
were in a peacetime area or a stateside. You

00:54:31.090 --> 00:54:33.409
form a bond with your dog that's there forever.

00:54:33.670 --> 00:54:36.909
I think of all three of my dogs just about every

00:54:36.909 --> 00:54:39.289
day. I know you do. I know you do. I know you

00:54:39.289 --> 00:54:41.449
would have liked to have the opportunity to adopt

00:54:41.449 --> 00:54:44.070
them like they do today. Thanks so very much.

00:54:44.070 --> 00:54:45.650
You're welcome. Thanks for inviting me into your

00:54:45.650 --> 00:54:48.769
studio. And we will be back next week with another

00:54:48.769 --> 00:54:51.789
program. We want to thank our sponsors, US Wings.

00:54:54.849 --> 00:54:57.590
until next week you've been listening to Veterans

00:54:57.590 --> 00:55:00.070
Radio, you are dismissed.