WEBVTT

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All across America and around the world, this

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is Veterans Radio. This is Veterans Radio. Good

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day. I'm Jim Fossone. I'm the Officer of the

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Deck today here on Veterans Radio, and thanks

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for joining us. We've got some interesting stories

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for you. We always want to remind you, you can

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find more about Veterans Radio at its Facebook

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site or at the web, veteransradio .org, where

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we're on the web 24 -7. You can find a lot of

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our podcasts there as well. We post new ones

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every Tuesday, so you can get a new story, a

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new interview, something you didn't know before

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by going to veteransradio .org. Before we get

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started, we want to thank our sponsors. First

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up, we want to thank National Veteran Business

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want to thank Legal Help for Veterans. Legal

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Help for Veterans fights for veterans disability

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rights all across the nation. You can reach them

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at 800 -693 -4800 or on the web at legalhelpforveterans

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.com. Dale at veteransradio .org or Jim at veteransradio

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.org to get more information, but we'd love to

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have you come out and we'd certainly love to

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have you sponsor. We just want to remind you

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that Veterans Radio Podcasts are available on

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RSS .com, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube Podcasts,

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Now we've got an interesting program for you

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today kind of in the spirit of Thanksgiving.

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We're going to hear from two veterans. who had

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a lot to be thankful for because of Well challenges

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medical challenges that they had and they're

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one of them Successfully through all those challenges

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and finished his career and another is still

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fighting those challenges So I think you'll find

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these interesting and in the end It'll give you

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something to be thankful for too We want to welcome

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to veterans radio a Marine Sean Libby, who's

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got a story to tell. I don't know how to phrase

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the story. It's not interesting. It's an important

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story to tell that maybe our veteran radio listeners

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can help out on. And if not his particular situation,

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maybe the larger issue of organ transplants.

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Sean, welcome to Veterans Radio. Thank you. Thank

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you. I really appreciate being here. And I really,

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really appreciate you reaching out and scheduling

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this for me to talk about this. Well, you know,

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your story is somewhat typical, right? Get out

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of high school, go into the Marines, end up in

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Afghanistan. You were a diesel mechanic. You

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did all the stuff that you have to do to support

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the front... forward of war fighters and everybody

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who's been in Afghanistan knows and certainly

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I hope most of the veteran radio listeners know

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about burn pits which were very common over there

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you know there was nowhere these were huge bases

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without any sort of uh landfill disposal and

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you just burn stuff right yeah there's no waste

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management in Afghanistan so you just you just

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burn everything and uh you burn it by and that's

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uh plastics, cardboard, wood, computers with

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metals in them, biologicals, everything. We won't

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get to a graphic. But again, anybody who's been

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there or anybody who's read anything recently,

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you know, kind of understands what went on during

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those 20 years. And even the stuff that you'd

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use to start the fires. wasn't necessarily good

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for you, right? Right. Gasoline on. Yeah. Yeah.

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JP for it. Yeah. Just to burn it all. Yeah. The

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ultimate, the ultimate barbecue fire pit started.

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Absolutely. Yeah. No, there's a, yeah. Something

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I didn't. Yeah. Something we didn't know about.

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Um, and what was crazy is that, uh, so I got

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out in a, so I got back from Afghanistan, like,

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you know, whatever mid 2012, and then I had like

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six to eight months left. And so when I got out,

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They noted I had toxic exposure when I got out.

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I didn't know it until I filed a claim, May 2024,

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and it got immediately denied. But one of the

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things that said certain things in your favor

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was that we conceded you had toxic exposure.

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That was the first time I ever knew about it.

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It was 2023. And that word toxic, you went...

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Whoa, what are they talking about here? When

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did you get out of service? It was February 2013.

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So you had noticed some time after that, I think

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I read somewhere quite a number of months later,

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you started to have some health issues. When

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I got out, I didn't notice I had health issues

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when I got out, but they put me on on some medications,

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atorvastatin and lisinopril for like cholesterol.

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I wasn't even sure why they put that on me, but

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they put it, they just gave it to me. I took

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it and then that was in 2014. I had moved to

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Michigan in 2014 to the UP, which you may, you

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know that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I moved to the

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I moved to the U .P. in 2014. I actually was

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going to like Great Lakes Boat Building School.

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So I did some traditional, you know, got into

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a trade school and I got with the VA there. They

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gave me those two medications I mentioned. And

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then there's like they just would be like, watch

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your fluids, your potassium, your sodium. You're

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fine. You're good. And then 2015, I had gotten

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a sleep study done and I was diagnosed with moderate

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severe sleep apnea. in 2015. And then after that,

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I really started focusing. I was going to the

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gym. I was eating healthy, you know, in protein.

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I was just, you know, getting really healthy.

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And then 2017 came around and then they were

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like, you know, hey, let's do a biopsy on your

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kidney. And I was like, okay. So we did a biopsy.

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They're like, you have i -januropathy and FSGS.

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And I didn't know what that meant at all. And

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it was this very, it was this Indian nephrologist

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I say Indian because he just had a very thick

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accent. So it was somewhat hard to understand

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him. So he hands me this handwritten script for

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like Predazone and for some other meds. And he's

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like, go down to Walgreens, go grab it. And I

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go down to Walgreens and they asked, are you

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going to pay for this out of pocket? These are

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very expensive. And I said, no, I can't afford

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this. So shortly after that, that was late 2017.

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And then 2018, I moved to Washington here. And

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I get with the VA here. And same thing. It's

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Lysinopril, Torvastatin. They're like, hey, watch

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your sodiums, watch your potassiums. But you

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look great. You look healthy. You're fantastic.

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How were you feeling at that point? I felt fine.

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But when I think about it, something deep inside

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me felt off. Something felt off. I didn't feel

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quite right. And that's why I was going to the

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gym. I was eating really healthy. I was tracking

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all my proteins, carbs, and fats. But despite

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me fighting this feeling, it still felt off.

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Something felt off still. So yeah, that was 2018,

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2019. And then, yeah, so it wasn't until 2023

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that I went into full kidney failure. Late 2022,

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I started having more symptoms, itchy legs, I

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was having unexplained tiredness, but I brushed

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it off. It wasn't a big deal other than that.

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I was like doing okay, working full time, busting

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my butt. You're a young, you're a young guy.

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You're healthy looking. You're going like, I

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don't, you know, maybe I just like party too

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much or I got to sleep more or something. But

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yeah, I'll sleep more. Maybe I'm not sleeping

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good. I, you know, I got to sleep a CPAP machine.

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So, you know, whatever it could be that, but

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I was still eating healthy. I'm going to the

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gym. I'm working full time, working my butt off.

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And then yeah. Um, February. January, February,

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I started retaining so much fluid, right? It

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was getting so hard to breathe. I was getting

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exhausted just doing simple stuff. I finally

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went to the ER February, 2023, and they're like,

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Sean, you have NSAID kidney disease. You're gonna

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need dialysis. You're gonna need a kidney. And

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those are the first time I've ever heard those

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words. I've never heard dialysis or organ transplant

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in my life until 2023 of February. And then,

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yeah. And this is what I want to get across to

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folks is that it's a process of, you outlined

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the number of years it took and really it was

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the fluid buildup that kind of manifested, hey,

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my kidneys aren't working right. I'm not, I'll

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use the polite term, I'm not voiding this stuff

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out. I'm retaining all this fluid. But prior

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to that, Nobody at the VA said, hey, you might

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be starting some kidney problems. Nothing. Even

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when I got that biopsy done, and this nephrologist

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has said you have IG nephropathy and FSGS, nobody

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had ever mentioned dialysis or organ failure.

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Not those two words. Or where that condition

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could lead to. Absolutely. Nobody mentioned this.

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Nothing. Not a single. And that's how it's always

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been with the VA. It's like that last 10%. of

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where it's like that last 10 % of care just is

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not there. And that's where I've had the hardest

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time. So after 2023 into 2024, you begin thinking

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about like, how did this happen to me? Yeah.

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And in your research, or was there a doctor or

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a nurse who said, hey, you know that toxic exposure

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you had from the burn pits? That could have been

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a source. No. No, I started dialysis 20. So May

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sorry. Yeah, February I went into failure and

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the VA Still was like hey, let's put you on some

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diuretics. Let's put you on tarosamide and forosamide

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and let's see if this goes away And then so I

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went February, March, April, and it was just

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getting worse. It wasn't until a civilian doctor

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in May said, Sean, if you don't get emergency

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surgery, if you don't get emergency dialysis

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this weekend, you're not going to make it. So

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I had to do that. I had to go out of my way,

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go to the ER, opt for dialysis. And then, yeah,

00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:25.179
the first time I experienced it, you know, I

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had a little like a, it was like a mini seizure,

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a vasovagal little moment, but finally I was

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getting some fluid off of me. And then I started

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dialysis. It wasn't until, you know, it wasn't

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until I thought of it until a year later, May

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2024, when I was like, damn, is this is this

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really my fault? Like, is this is this not something

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to do with the military? Because I'm at the time

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I'm 34. Why do I like why? Why am I dealing with

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kidney failure at 34? And then there was a, luckily,

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sweetheart, the local VSO, the veteran service

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officer. I reached out to her. She's like, file

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a claim. And I'm like, oh, duh. I got 30 % when

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I got out. And then I got 60 % through the sleep

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study. And then that was it. I didn't even know

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that people are filing all the time for everything,

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flat foot or whatever. So whatever they gave

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me, anything, I was happy for it. I wasn't trying

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to. So, but yeah, so a year later, May 2024,

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I filed my first claim for chronic kidney disease.

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And then that's when I get denied. And that's

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when I find out I had toxic exposure. Nobody

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told me this, not for the first full year I was

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on dialysis. And the first year was just was

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was a whole thing too. I went through the different

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the I started dialysis, the chemo. a dialysis

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in center. And then within a month, they were

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like, Sean, let's get you out the in -home peritoneal

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dialysis. So I go under the knife for that surgery.

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And then I learn about a new process for dialysis.

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I learn how to use the equipment at home. They

00:13:02.440 --> 00:13:05.960
throw about 60 boxes in your house. And then

00:13:05.960 --> 00:13:08.340
your home turns into a medical facility. And

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I'm like, I'm just now learning this whole dialysis

00:13:11.259 --> 00:13:13.200
in this life. And then I learn a new process.

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and that I started having problems. It moved

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like within four weeks it moved so I had to get

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a revisional surgery again and then it was still

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problematic. So let me back you up. Yeah. Is

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VA providing medical care on the kidney failure?

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They are no I do an in -center out of it's like

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not through the VA there's a local one next to

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me and then but it's not community care they're

00:13:44.740 --> 00:13:47.820
not paying for it they are paying for they are

00:13:47.820 --> 00:13:50.899
paying yeah yes okay through community care okay

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yes it's called a yeah it's called Davida is

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the name it's a it's a nation to beat as a national

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dialysis company has seen them all around the

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country. Right, right. One of the things here

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is I want to highlight for folks is that while

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the PACT Act of 2022 made all kinds of diseases

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related to burn pits from Vietnam to Afghanistan,

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presumptive conditions, chronic kidney failure

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is not. No, it's not. It's not one of them. So

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yeah, it took me a year to fight. I was fighting

00:14:29.529 --> 00:14:32.470
for a year with them. So you had to go out and

00:14:32.470 --> 00:14:35.330
get a private medical, what they call a nexus

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letter. And for folks who don't, you know, aren't

00:14:38.590 --> 00:14:40.950
intimately involved in this area like you are,

00:14:40.990 --> 00:14:45.590
or I am as a disability lawyer, you get a medical

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doctor who says it's more likely than not, this

00:14:48.110 --> 00:14:50.889
is from this exposure and service. Yes. Yes.

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So how did, again, VA doesn't recognize it as

00:14:54.970 --> 00:14:58.870
presumptive. How did the how did your doctor

00:14:58.870 --> 00:15:01.450
convince them? Hey, this is tied back to his

00:15:01.450 --> 00:15:05.429
service So my I had my first nephrologist he

00:15:05.429 --> 00:15:08.950
retired shortly, but he wrote me a letter and

00:15:08.950 --> 00:15:12.330
He had even mentioned, you know about I had some

00:15:12.330 --> 00:15:14.870
numbers showing That I had elevated numbers and

00:15:14.870 --> 00:15:17.409
I was getting out and so he had noted it as least

00:15:17.409 --> 00:15:20.529
likely as it is not Um, and his letter was, uh,

00:15:20.529 --> 00:15:22.769
was actually pretty helpful. And then when he

00:15:22.769 --> 00:15:25.730
retired, there was a new nephrologist I was signed.

00:15:25.750 --> 00:15:29.049
And she also wrote me a letter to, um, advocating

00:15:29.049 --> 00:15:31.269
saying, you know, that, Hey, this, this is not,

00:15:31.389 --> 00:15:34.289
you know, this has, you know, ties back to the

00:15:34.289 --> 00:15:38.149
burn pit exposure. And, um, yeah, yeah. I mean,

00:15:38.230 --> 00:15:40.929
really those two letters were huge for me. And

00:15:40.929 --> 00:15:43.870
one of the things that a lot of veterans with

00:15:43.870 --> 00:15:46.730
non -presumptive problems do is they kind of

00:15:46.730 --> 00:15:51.830
give up. They say, well, F the VA, you guys never

00:15:51.830 --> 00:15:54.950
helped me, I'm going somewhere else. But the

00:15:54.950 --> 00:15:58.710
disability line or silo at the VA is different

00:15:58.710 --> 00:16:02.950
than the healthcare silo. And you had to keep

00:16:02.950 --> 00:16:05.870
appealing the disability denials and you got

00:16:05.870 --> 00:16:08.909
some lawyers to help you do that. I did. And

00:16:08.909 --> 00:16:12.519
ultimately tell us what happened. So shortly

00:16:12.519 --> 00:16:15.779
after getting denied, I got denied twice. And

00:16:15.779 --> 00:16:20.279
then the VSO, she had reached out to, referred

00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:22.759
me to the National Veteran Legal Services Program,

00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:25.600
and they were wonderful. I had a lawyer, you

00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:28.639
know, Mr. Ryan Kelly, he had all of the information.

00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:32.000
He had all of the, showing the burn pits and

00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:34.659
everything tied back to the, because I went to,

00:16:34.940 --> 00:16:37.669
in Afghanistan, I was in Camp Leatherneck. uh,

00:16:37.730 --> 00:16:40.570
fobnole and fobdellaram and all three of those

00:16:40.570 --> 00:16:43.269
places had burn pits and he had all the information

00:16:43.269 --> 00:16:46.570
on those three places And so he was really really

00:16:46.570 --> 00:16:48.330
advocating fighting for me and it took a lot

00:16:48.330 --> 00:16:51.909
I think I was I think five denials and we were

00:16:51.909 --> 00:16:55.509
caught in this loop because the va whenever they

00:16:55.509 --> 00:16:58.389
um, when they get Whatever just the process they

00:16:58.389 --> 00:16:59.909
go because you know, they won't make the decision

00:16:59.909 --> 00:17:01.929
on themselves, but they will always hire a medical

00:17:01.929 --> 00:17:05.640
examiner To do it always an outside medical examiner.

00:17:05.660 --> 00:17:08.079
So I would they would assign a medical examiner

00:17:08.079 --> 00:17:10.960
that medical examiner I swear they are trained

00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:14.559
to say no Because I I filed complaints with each

00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:16.920
of the companies that those medical examiners

00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:19.220
were working for because like they'd call me

00:17:19.220 --> 00:17:21.200
on the phone I'm like coming out dialysis and

00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:23.339
for example the first one she's like So what

00:17:23.339 --> 00:17:25.119
symptoms are you having to tell you you have

00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:27.460
kidney failure and I'm coming out dialysis So

00:17:27.460 --> 00:17:30.039
I was like, are you kidding me right now? And

00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:33.039
so she, I knew my little attitude to her. I knew

00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:34.380
I was going to get denied, but yeah, she was

00:17:34.380 --> 00:17:37.440
like, no, not related. And then get denied, you

00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:39.660
know, but then you can submit, um, what is the

00:17:39.660 --> 00:17:42.980
word for it? A revision or supplemental claim

00:17:42.980 --> 00:17:45.720
for more information. Yeah. Yeah. So I submitted

00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:48.220
that and then they go back to another medical

00:17:48.220 --> 00:17:50.940
examiner. And then I see that person in person.

00:17:51.339 --> 00:17:54.920
uh and then she despite all she denies me and

00:17:54.920 --> 00:17:57.200
then we go back again and then i get another

00:17:57.200 --> 00:17:59.059
person and then we get denied again so we're

00:17:59.059 --> 00:18:02.019
in this circle and then i finally get approved

00:18:02.019 --> 00:18:04.220
by um because you know once you get denied you

00:18:04.220 --> 00:18:06.119
can have a request an informal hearing with a

00:18:06.119 --> 00:18:08.759
decision maker right and that's a rule i didn't

00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:10.900
know about that i mean mr ryan kelly the lawyer

00:18:10.900 --> 00:18:13.579
for nvlsp he knew but i mean how could any veteran

00:18:13.829 --> 00:18:16.430
on their own ever know that you can request an

00:18:16.430 --> 00:18:18.130
informally here with the decision maker? No.

00:18:18.569 --> 00:18:20.849
So we get in this and we're like, hey, we're

00:18:20.849 --> 00:18:22.650
just we're getting caught in this loop here like

00:18:22.650 --> 00:18:25.630
every single time. So after a year, I finally

00:18:25.630 --> 00:18:28.210
got approved for it. And that has been, you know,

00:18:28.309 --> 00:18:30.990
a godsend being able to at least I was like I

00:18:30.990 --> 00:18:33.049
was coming into financial like losing my home.

00:18:33.089 --> 00:18:35.450
I was going to lose my car. I was falling months

00:18:35.450 --> 00:18:38.390
behind on all my payments. And despite all so

00:18:38.390 --> 00:18:41.390
luckily that worked out. I'm very thankful for

00:18:41.390 --> 00:18:45.019
that. You are you are now getting your disability

00:18:45.019 --> 00:18:48.019
payments, but you're you're you're getting your

00:18:48.019 --> 00:18:52.819
dialysis in the community Yes, and that up But

00:18:52.819 --> 00:18:55.539
you're on a transplant list, right? You you need

00:18:55.539 --> 00:18:59.200
you need it This is the part again. Most folks

00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:01.380
never have experiences. So I want to educate

00:19:01.380 --> 00:19:03.319
our veteran radio listeners a little bit here

00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:09.079
Sean. Mm -hmm Kidney disease chronic kidney disease

00:19:09.480 --> 00:19:11.920
Doesn't reverse itself. There isn't a medication

00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:15.500
that fixes this or a surgery, you know clip a

00:19:15.500 --> 00:19:19.380
little this take so so You're on a transplant

00:19:19.380 --> 00:19:23.099
list you you needed a kidney from somebody Mm

00:19:23.099 --> 00:19:26.779
-hmm. I do. Yes, and and when you get with like

00:19:26.779 --> 00:19:30.220
I'm active on the VA Portland transplant list

00:19:30.220 --> 00:19:35.160
and I am I'm inactive but I'm accepted on the

00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:38.900
Swedish transplant out of Seattle. Because when

00:19:38.900 --> 00:19:43.079
you are a veteran, you can have one VA transplant

00:19:43.079 --> 00:19:45.539
and one non -VA. So you get to be dual listed,

00:19:45.779 --> 00:19:49.019
which is great. Currently, I'm working with Swedish

00:19:49.019 --> 00:19:52.579
because I'm inactive until I get a few things

00:19:52.579 --> 00:19:55.579
settled with them that satisfy theirs. Because

00:19:55.579 --> 00:19:58.079
they are a little bit more in depth about their

00:19:58.079 --> 00:20:02.240
process than the VA is. But both of those are

00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:05.529
a deceased donor. And that's, I mean, to get

00:20:05.529 --> 00:20:07.910
off dialysis and have more normal life is absolutely,

00:20:08.210 --> 00:20:11.230
that's my life goal now is to have that. But

00:20:11.230 --> 00:20:13.769
a deceased donor has an average of eight to 12

00:20:13.769 --> 00:20:16.970
years versus a live donor, which can be 20 plus.

00:20:17.410 --> 00:20:19.589
So it's just the difference in life is just so

00:20:19.589 --> 00:20:23.029
much longer whenever you get a live donor versus

00:20:23.029 --> 00:20:27.009
a deceased one. I want to give a little background

00:20:27.009 --> 00:20:29.990
of research that I did getting ready for this

00:20:29.990 --> 00:20:32.569
because we've never talked to anybody in this

00:20:32.569 --> 00:20:36.289
situation on Veterans Radio in 22 years of doing

00:20:36.289 --> 00:20:42.170
it. VA performs over 150 kidney transplants annually

00:20:42.170 --> 00:20:46.529
at its VA transplant centers. I didn't even know

00:20:46.529 --> 00:20:49.690
they had VA transplant centers. They have a number

00:20:49.690 --> 00:20:54.069
of them, I guess five of them or something. About

00:20:54.069 --> 00:20:58.170
16 % of veterans who need kidney transplants

00:20:58.170 --> 00:21:01.220
actually go through the vidni. VA transplant

00:21:01.220 --> 00:21:05.759
center but 84 % received a kidney at a non -VA

00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:07.640
transplant center. That's what you're talking

00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:12.140
about where you're with in Seattle with us. Swedish.

00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:16.720
So these are the sorts of things that like people

00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:22.759
don't think about. Wow, I mean this is and I

00:21:22.759 --> 00:21:24.720
found on the internet there's like a hundred

00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:28.220
thousand people on kidney transplant lists so

00:21:28.220 --> 00:21:31.700
when Sean says, man, I'm waiting. I'm waiting.

00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:34.000
I'm on too long a list, but I'm waiting. That's

00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:39.480
a lot of people. If people are like waking up

00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:41.579
to this because they're listening into you and

00:21:41.579 --> 00:21:43.900
saying, man, this guy got a raw deal. How do

00:21:43.900 --> 00:21:45.900
you, how do you help out? And maybe not even

00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:48.819
just help out Sean. That'd be great. But, but

00:21:48.819 --> 00:21:53.839
how do people help others who may need a kidney

00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:57.950
on a transplant list? think advocating for yourself

00:21:57.950 --> 00:21:59.849
I think advocating for yourself like instead

00:21:59.849 --> 00:22:01.869
of because you know in the military it's always

00:22:01.869 --> 00:22:04.410
like you know you go and you change your socks

00:22:04.410 --> 00:22:06.690
you take some Motrin you keep going like that's

00:22:06.690 --> 00:22:09.250
that's that's what I did but like you really

00:22:09.250 --> 00:22:11.789
need to advocate for yourself like not just if

00:22:11.849 --> 00:22:14.410
What are we at? Just a few months ago, I had

00:22:14.410 --> 00:22:17.750
another Marine buddy that I was with. We were

00:22:17.750 --> 00:22:19.690
in Afghanistan a little time. He's like, hey,

00:22:19.769 --> 00:22:22.589
I'm having issues. I'm getting tired. My legs

00:22:22.589 --> 00:22:24.970
are itching. I'm having problems. And I'm like,

00:22:25.049 --> 00:22:27.049
bro, you need to bring this up now. You need

00:22:27.049 --> 00:22:30.450
to take this seriously. So it's really, if something

00:22:30.450 --> 00:22:32.769
doesn't feel right, you have to say something.

00:22:32.789 --> 00:22:35.390
You really need to advocate for yourself. Because

00:22:35.390 --> 00:22:38.609
I don't know what the system like. It feels like

00:22:38.609 --> 00:22:42.319
the system is just overloaded. And so it's so

00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:45.420
hard that if you don't advocate for yourself,

00:22:45.420 --> 00:22:47.680
they're going to think you're fine. You really

00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:50.660
need to. One of the things I'd add to that is

00:22:50.660 --> 00:22:53.960
at least the VA doctors know what burn pits are

00:22:53.960 --> 00:22:57.339
and what tax exposure is. But if you're out in

00:22:57.339 --> 00:22:59.400
the community and you've got a private doctor,

00:23:00.299 --> 00:23:02.440
they have no idea what you experienced in the

00:23:02.440 --> 00:23:05.519
military. That's true. They don't know what a

00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:08.039
burn pit is. They don't know the tax exposure

00:23:08.039 --> 00:23:11.079
issue. You're right, you have to advocate for

00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:14.240
yourself if something just, I think you said

00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:17.619
at the outset, something just didn't feel right

00:23:17.619 --> 00:23:21.180
in the core. Something didn't feel right. That's

00:23:21.180 --> 00:23:23.000
why I was like, I was always striving to be healthy

00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:25.680
and eat healthy and eat right. Because like something

00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:29.140
didn't feel right inside me. And it's like, even

00:23:29.140 --> 00:23:32.960
if, I mean, again, at least if they had just

00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:35.819
been transparent and be like, Sean, just so you

00:23:35.819 --> 00:23:37.619
know, like we don't really even if they had even

00:23:37.619 --> 00:23:39.779
been like, we don't even care. Just so you know,

00:23:39.779 --> 00:23:42.400
you had toxic exposure and it could lead to this,

00:23:42.420 --> 00:23:45.119
like even if they had said something and even

00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:47.619
if it ended up with me on dialysis, I at least

00:23:47.619 --> 00:23:50.980
could have maybe helped myself out, you know,

00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:53.539
by five or 10 years or something, because I could

00:23:53.539 --> 00:23:56.839
have been less on protein or less on fluids,

00:23:56.839 --> 00:23:58.900
you know, a little bit more strict than I was.

00:23:58.900 --> 00:24:02.359
But I. didn't know anything was really wrong.

00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:07.019
When I got out, there was a floodgate that was

00:24:07.019 --> 00:24:10.539
starting to just slowly open up and led me to

00:24:10.539 --> 00:24:16.400
here now. Is there a way for folks to find out

00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:21.829
if they have a kidney that works for you, or

00:24:21.829 --> 00:24:24.089
is this more of you're trying to get the word

00:24:24.089 --> 00:24:27.210
out that, hey, sign the donor form on the back

00:24:27.210 --> 00:24:31.450
of your driver's license so that if you pass

00:24:31.450 --> 00:24:33.569
away and your kidney is still good, somebody

00:24:33.569 --> 00:24:38.289
else gets it? I do have some. I have been working

00:24:38.289 --> 00:24:41.710
with this sweet, sweet lady, Miss Mickey Jackson.

00:24:41.890 --> 00:24:44.730
I think she reached out to you guys. She wrote

00:24:44.730 --> 00:24:48.710
me an article asking for a live donor. And so

00:24:48.710 --> 00:24:51.849
there is a person on here trying to help me out

00:24:51.849 --> 00:24:56.690
because my blood type is O, which means I'm the

00:24:56.690 --> 00:24:59.970
most common one, which means a type O usually

00:24:59.970 --> 00:25:02.190
is like the longest, like seven to eight years

00:25:02.190 --> 00:25:07.349
on dialysis before you get a kidney. And so it's

00:25:07.349 --> 00:25:09.630
harder as a type O because everybody can receive

00:25:09.630 --> 00:25:13.359
one, but only O can receive O. Um, so, I mean,

00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:15.299
there was, there's a person that she had wrote

00:25:15.299 --> 00:25:17.799
with a phone number on here. Um, she's a dialysis

00:25:17.799 --> 00:25:20.339
social worker, local to here. I can give you

00:25:20.339 --> 00:25:22.720
her name and number if anybody wants to reach

00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:25.160
out and see if they are. I think that's a good

00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:27.400
thing. Let's do that. It's, it's Angie, right?

00:25:27.640 --> 00:25:31.779
Yes. That's it. So Angie is the dialysis social

00:25:31.779 --> 00:25:35.400
worker. Her number in Seattle is three six zero

00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:42.160
seven three four. 4243. I don't have an email

00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:47.599
for her. But again, I think you can probably

00:25:47.599 --> 00:25:50.740
check that out, people, if you're like, hey,

00:25:50.799 --> 00:25:53.099
man, this motivates me. I want to make sure that

00:25:53.710 --> 00:25:56.170
I got good organs and they don't go to waste.

00:25:57.170 --> 00:25:59.109
Absolutely. That would be, I mean, yeah, it's,

00:25:59.130 --> 00:26:01.650
uh, I mean, through, through my faith in God,

00:26:01.670 --> 00:26:03.690
you know, I believe that I'm here from fighting

00:26:03.690 --> 00:26:06.670
for a purpose and a reason. Um, you know, and

00:26:06.670 --> 00:26:09.069
I, I've been fighting my whole life, um, through

00:26:09.069 --> 00:26:12.109
just my adverse, you know, just problems, overcoming

00:26:12.109 --> 00:26:15.990
obstacles. And so, yeah, I just, if anybody can,

00:26:16.009 --> 00:26:17.930
that'd be the, that'd be the most amazing thing

00:26:17.930 --> 00:26:20.890
possible. I would definitely be grateful every

00:26:20.890 --> 00:26:23.319
day of my life for something like that. Well,

00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:25.400
you know, it's hard to transition out of the

00:26:25.400 --> 00:26:27.440
military. I'm sure you had the same experience

00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:29.700
as everybody else does when you transition out

00:26:29.700 --> 00:26:33.880
and you were in the process of learning a new

00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:36.619
trade, something to get motivated on and have

00:26:36.619 --> 00:26:38.920
a passion on, which is what you have to have

00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:40.700
when you get out of the military. You got to

00:26:40.700 --> 00:26:43.880
find a new passion. Absolutely. And then to have

00:26:43.880 --> 00:26:49.460
this huge roadblock is really challenging, to

00:26:49.460 --> 00:26:51.579
say the least. So let me give Angie's phone number

00:26:51.579 --> 00:26:58.740
again. She's a dialysis social worker, 360 -734

00:26:58.740 --> 00:27:06.079
-4243, and tell her, hey, I listened to Sean,

00:27:08.420 --> 00:27:12.640
and man, you know, Sean Libby made me call you,

00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:16.720
and I want to figure out how I can help. Absolutely,

00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:19.640
that'd be wonderful. Sean, as we come to the

00:27:19.640 --> 00:27:23.500
close of this segment, um what do you want to

00:27:23.500 --> 00:27:25.180
say to your other veterans and what do you want

00:27:25.180 --> 00:27:28.740
to say to the public in general uh i think you're

00:27:28.740 --> 00:27:32.059
really advocating for yourself like it's it's

00:27:32.059 --> 00:27:34.160
hard because of not it's not the people that

00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:37.059
work in the vh but the system itself it's just

00:27:37.059 --> 00:27:41.529
everybody stretched so thin um you know it's

00:27:41.529 --> 00:27:43.829
just it can be hard and just advocating for yourself

00:27:43.829 --> 00:27:46.089
and if you if there's something that you think

00:27:46.089 --> 00:27:49.990
is wrong like bring it up do not hold it in and

00:27:49.990 --> 00:27:51.910
that was the thing I always said I always like

00:27:51.910 --> 00:27:54.730
I put my work in front of my health for those

00:27:54.730 --> 00:27:57.589
last few years that really could have helped

00:27:57.589 --> 00:28:00.809
me a little bit more I put it all into work and

00:28:00.809 --> 00:28:02.769
I put all of my health problems all of my concerns

00:28:02.769 --> 00:28:05.910
to the side and um and it's hard because I mean

00:28:05.910 --> 00:28:08.109
I'm a single guy like I don't have children but

00:28:08.109 --> 00:28:10.349
like it's a but I just you know I have full -time

00:28:10.349 --> 00:28:13.670
job whatever, come out of these. But I don't

00:28:13.670 --> 00:28:16.269
have a wife and kids. And if I did, it'd be even

00:28:16.269 --> 00:28:19.210
harder to step aside from work and go to your

00:28:19.210 --> 00:28:22.450
appointments and go do the blood work. But that's

00:28:22.450 --> 00:28:24.730
the biggest thing. Advocating for yourself is

00:28:24.730 --> 00:28:28.109
the biggest thing I can say. Well, we appreciate

00:28:28.109 --> 00:28:31.069
you coming on Veterans Radio to talk about your

00:28:31.069 --> 00:28:34.009
situation and give some advice to your fellow

00:28:34.009 --> 00:28:37.170
veterans. And hopefully somebody out there gets

00:28:37.170 --> 00:28:41.250
motivated. and reaches out either locally in

00:28:41.250 --> 00:28:44.890
their own area or reach out to Angie, see where

00:28:44.890 --> 00:28:47.890
that might lead, God may lead it in a direction

00:28:47.890 --> 00:28:50.970
that neither of us can imagine at the moment.

00:28:52.509 --> 00:28:55.549
But stay strong and we really appreciate you

00:28:55.549 --> 00:28:58.059
coming on Veterans Radio. Thank you, Jim. I really

00:28:58.059 --> 00:28:59.799
appreciate it for what you do too. I really,

00:28:59.799 --> 00:29:02.460
really couldn't be, you know, I appreciate everything

00:29:02.460 --> 00:29:04.279
that you're doing and how you're advocating for

00:29:04.279 --> 00:29:06.039
us veterans out here. And you've been doing it

00:29:06.039 --> 00:29:08.740
for how long you've been doing this? 22 years.

00:29:08.980 --> 00:29:11.359
22 years. That's a lifetime. You know, that is,

00:29:11.539 --> 00:29:13.859
that's a lifetime. So thank you. I can't imagine

00:29:13.859 --> 00:29:16.180
how many thousands or tens or hundreds of thousands

00:29:16.180 --> 00:29:18.559
of veterans have heard you and, and have, you

00:29:18.559 --> 00:29:23.220
know, benefited from you. So thank you. As I

00:29:23.220 --> 00:29:26.420
said, that's a story worth knowing about. Maybe

00:29:26.420 --> 00:29:28.180
it inspires you. Maybe you say, you know what,

00:29:28.180 --> 00:29:31.140
I should check off that organ donor notation

00:29:31.140 --> 00:29:34.119
on my driver's license or let my family's wishes

00:29:34.119 --> 00:29:36.880
be known. Or maybe you want to get tested to

00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:41.220
see if you're a match for somebody on an organ

00:29:41.220 --> 00:29:45.920
donor registry on the kidney donor. And you certainly

00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:51.829
can call Angie out in Seattle who's the transplant

00:29:51.829 --> 00:29:55.529
coordinator social worker and see if you can

00:29:55.529 --> 00:29:58.470
do something there. She's the dialysis social

00:29:58.470 --> 00:30:05.009
worker, 360 -734 -4243. And I know Shawn would

00:30:05.009 --> 00:30:08.130
really appreciate it. So let's have a few words

00:30:08.130 --> 00:30:10.450
from sponsors and then we'll get into the next

00:30:10.450 --> 00:30:14.950
story. That's a little more uplifting in that

00:30:14.950 --> 00:30:18.490
it has already come through conclusion, but it

00:30:18.490 --> 00:30:21.660
wasn't without a lot of effort. Military veterans

00:30:21.660 --> 00:30:24.079
touch everyone's life. I'm guessing right now

00:30:24.079 --> 00:30:26.299
you're thinking of a veteran, a close friend,

00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:29.470
relative. Maybe it's you. Even the toughest of

00:30:29.470 --> 00:30:31.710
us sometimes need help but don't know where to

00:30:31.710 --> 00:30:33.869
turn for support. You don't need special training

00:30:33.869 --> 00:30:36.450
to help a veteran in your life. Even small actions

00:30:36.450 --> 00:30:38.970
can make a world of difference. If you know a

00:30:38.970 --> 00:30:41.490
veteran in crisis, please call the Veterans Crisis

00:30:41.490 --> 00:30:48.710
Line 800 -273 -8255. 800 -273 -8255. A message

00:30:48.710 --> 00:30:50.490
from the U .S. Department of Veterans Affairs.

00:30:50.779 --> 00:30:53.160
If you have a VA claim denied by the Board of

00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:55.299
Veterans' Appeals, contact Legal Help for Veterans

00:30:55.299 --> 00:31:00.019
at 1 -800 -693 -4800. They're experts in handling

00:31:00.019 --> 00:31:02.339
cases before the U .S. Court of Appeals for Veterans'

00:31:02.500 --> 00:31:06.500
claims. Their number again, 1 -800 -693 -4800.

00:31:07.019 --> 00:31:10.400
We want to welcome to Veterans Radio today, Derek

00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:15.059
Damets, a naval aviator, spent a long time in

00:31:15.059 --> 00:31:18.700
the Navy, is out now. You have written a book,

00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:23.339
it's your story. kind of a personal memoir called

00:31:23.339 --> 00:31:26.740
Unbreakable Wings, Piloting the Impossible Journey

00:31:26.740 --> 00:31:29.799
Through Cancer and Naval Aviation. And we just

00:31:29.799 --> 00:31:33.000
gave it away a little bit by the title about

00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:36.319
some of the struggles, but before we get there,

00:31:36.819 --> 00:31:39.339
how did a nice kid from a small town in Wisconsin

00:31:39.339 --> 00:31:42.779
get turned into a naval aviator? What was the

00:31:42.779 --> 00:31:46.410
impetus? Yeah, you know it kind of started early,

00:31:46.430 --> 00:31:49.250
but I didn't recognize it until later You know

00:31:49.250 --> 00:31:51.130
being on the farm and growing up and there's

00:31:51.130 --> 00:31:53.690
always crop dusters flying overhead and being

00:31:53.690 --> 00:31:56.730
a kid sitting on a tractor You know raking hay

00:31:56.730 --> 00:31:59.490
or doing yard work or throwing bales There just

00:31:59.490 --> 00:32:01.890
was always something intriguing about it and

00:32:01.890 --> 00:32:04.730
then of course 1986 comes along and I'm a young

00:32:04.730 --> 00:32:07.849
kid and Top Gun comes out and you know There's

00:32:07.849 --> 00:32:09.509
a part in the book where I just wanted to see

00:32:09.509 --> 00:32:11.789
short -circuit man that Johnny five is alive

00:32:11.789 --> 00:32:14.410
that was the movie for me and Dad forced me to

00:32:14.410 --> 00:32:16.369
this movie called Top Gun, and I went kicking

00:32:16.369 --> 00:32:18.730
and screaming. And when I came out, I'm like,

00:32:18.769 --> 00:32:21.089
that's what I want to do. It's like both parts

00:32:21.089 --> 00:32:23.910
clicked. Watching that plane fly overhead when

00:32:23.910 --> 00:32:26.029
I was young and seeing the military aircraft

00:32:26.029 --> 00:32:28.509
flying off the aircraft carrier, I finally, for

00:32:28.509 --> 00:32:29.910
the first time, figured, I think that's what

00:32:29.910 --> 00:32:32.910
I want to do. I think a lot of people can relate

00:32:32.910 --> 00:32:37.470
to the story in that they've had sort of portions

00:32:37.470 --> 00:32:41.619
of your upbringing. And by that, I mean Great

00:32:41.619 --> 00:32:44.119
relationship with your dad, great relationship

00:32:44.119 --> 00:32:48.579
with your grandpa, farm life, hard work, high

00:32:48.579 --> 00:32:53.740
school sports. Give us that flavor, because that's

00:32:53.740 --> 00:32:56.900
really, Derek, where your foundation is built.

00:32:58.320 --> 00:33:00.400
Yeah, it's uh, you know everybody has a story

00:33:00.400 --> 00:33:02.500
and nobody really knows everyone else's story

00:33:02.500 --> 00:33:04.400
and your story is the only one that you know

00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:07.200
and growing up from since I remember it was Get

00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:08.819
down on the barn. You're helping milk the cows,

00:33:08.839 --> 00:33:10.779
right? And then as a young kid, you don't do

00:33:10.779 --> 00:33:12.759
much and as you grow older You're you kind of

00:33:12.759 --> 00:33:15.059
take on a lot more responsibility and there's

00:33:15.059 --> 00:33:17.619
no vacations. There's no breaks, right? it's

00:33:17.619 --> 00:33:19.579
a long day of work in the field just to come

00:33:19.579 --> 00:33:21.579
home at 7 p .m and then you got to run to the

00:33:21.579 --> 00:33:23.660
barn and feed the dogs and milk the cows and

00:33:23.869 --> 00:33:27.390
I think that constant just work ethic is just

00:33:27.390 --> 00:33:29.470
kind of how, when you develop at that age, that

00:33:29.470 --> 00:33:31.650
just was my mind. It was just built to get up

00:33:31.650 --> 00:33:34.250
in the morning and work all day. And if you can

00:33:34.250 --> 00:33:36.049
eat, that's great. But if you miss a couple meals,

00:33:36.150 --> 00:33:37.910
well, that's just too bad because there's chores

00:33:37.910 --> 00:33:41.930
to do. And it doesn't matter how skinny or small

00:33:41.930 --> 00:33:43.349
you are, you still got to throw that bale of

00:33:43.349 --> 00:33:45.869
hay, don't you? Yeah, those bales of hay, thank

00:33:45.869 --> 00:33:47.710
God they got lighter when I got bigger. But those

00:33:47.710 --> 00:33:50.369
first couple I picked up, they were probably

00:33:50.369 --> 00:33:54.099
as heavy as I was. Well, and again, what's very

00:33:54.099 --> 00:33:56.920
relatable from a Midwestern standpoint is those

00:33:56.920 --> 00:34:01.140
high school years. And you had a couple of challenges

00:34:01.140 --> 00:34:06.519
in those years that maybe, again, were foundational

00:34:06.519 --> 00:34:08.960
for challenges you were going to have to have

00:34:08.960 --> 00:34:11.300
in the future and get over. So talk a little

00:34:11.300 --> 00:34:16.360
bit about the high school years and kind of how

00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:20.880
that built into your character. Yeah, I think

00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:23.960
it um, you know growing up on a farm you're eating

00:34:23.960 --> 00:34:27.530
a lot of dairy Right. So I call it my dairy fueled

00:34:27.530 --> 00:34:29.829
farm physique. Right. So I'm entering high school,

00:34:29.969 --> 00:34:32.909
probably the largest kid in the class. You know,

00:34:32.909 --> 00:34:34.769
I'm going to be the center of the football team.

00:34:35.289 --> 00:34:37.650
And a couple of my friends encouraged me to run

00:34:37.650 --> 00:34:39.730
cross country. Right. And thank God they did

00:34:39.730 --> 00:34:42.130
in hindsight. But there I was that freshman year

00:34:42.130 --> 00:34:45.030
of high school and cross country. You know, everybody's

00:34:45.030 --> 00:34:46.730
clapping at me as I come across the finish line

00:34:46.730 --> 00:34:48.550
10 minutes after everybody else. And they already

00:34:48.550 --> 00:34:50.469
have the shoot already cleaned up. You know,

00:34:50.829 --> 00:34:52.800
but. But again, I wasn't going to give up. So

00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:54.420
it goes back to kind of that farm work. I say,

00:34:54.500 --> 00:34:56.000
if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this.

00:34:56.420 --> 00:34:58.619
And I lost the weight and went through, and there

00:34:58.619 --> 00:35:01.059
was some challenges there. And I don't know if

00:35:01.059 --> 00:35:03.840
that goes into college, too, where we talk about

00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:06.539
if you're getting into college is great. I finally

00:35:06.539 --> 00:35:08.760
have it all figured out. I love running. I'm

00:35:08.760 --> 00:35:11.539
running 10 miles a day or every other day, and

00:35:11.539 --> 00:35:13.760
college is coming to an end. And all of a sudden,

00:35:13.860 --> 00:35:15.980
there's a huge medical emergency where my lung

00:35:15.980 --> 00:35:19.920
decides it's had enough air. Yeah, exactly. So

00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:22.199
you went to the University of Wisconsin. Yeah.

00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:26.739
Like a good farm boy. But again, there's not

00:35:26.739 --> 00:35:30.440
a lot of cash around. So how did you get through

00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:34.599
college? Well, obviously, growing up on a farm,

00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:37.400
I was on my own. And that was pretty clear from

00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:38.940
the beginning. If you want to go to college,

00:35:39.219 --> 00:35:43.010
go to college. And so, you know, the whole thing

00:35:43.010 --> 00:35:45.289
about being a pilot is kind of coming into view.

00:35:46.170 --> 00:35:48.150
How am I going to get money for college? And

00:35:48.150 --> 00:35:50.650
so, you know, getting on an old school typewriter,

00:35:50.750 --> 00:35:52.489
I guess it was a word processor back in the day,

00:35:52.550 --> 00:35:55.030
there were no computers. Tip, tip, tick, tick,

00:35:55.030 --> 00:35:56.630
tick, as the fingers went across the keyboard,

00:35:56.730 --> 00:35:58.829
you know, I typed up my application for both

00:35:58.829 --> 00:36:02.170
the Academy and ROTC. And that was how I was

00:36:02.170 --> 00:36:03.530
going to get in. And if I didn't get any one

00:36:03.530 --> 00:36:05.329
of those, I probably wasn't going to college.

00:36:06.859 --> 00:36:10.320
um and and but got achieved both uh but uh my

00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:12.119
guidance counselor sat me down one day and said

00:36:12.119 --> 00:36:14.239
i think you're a razi guy you know you got way

00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:16.300
too much energy to go to the academy and be kind

00:36:16.300 --> 00:36:19.019
of combined in and sit in those rooms all day

00:36:19.019 --> 00:36:21.179
and not get outside those walls and so he really

00:36:21.179 --> 00:36:23.559
convinced me to take that razi scholarship go

00:36:23.559 --> 00:36:26.000
to madison you know do the military thing they

00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:27.739
pay for college and then that's that's kind of

00:36:27.739 --> 00:36:31.280
what got me there i think today so many people

00:36:33.199 --> 00:36:37.619
sort of rule out or don't even think about ROTC

00:36:37.619 --> 00:36:43.079
and you went to naval ROTC Again with that idea

00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:47.219
that I want to ultimately be an aviator But I

00:36:47.219 --> 00:36:49.440
think a lot of people don't even consider it

00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:51.659
maybe because they don't know anybody who's gone

00:36:51.659 --> 00:36:54.219
through it Talk to us about that experience and

00:36:54.219 --> 00:36:57.380
would you today recommend to kids? Hey, look

00:36:57.380 --> 00:37:01.019
at the ROTC scholarship program Yeah, I think

00:37:01.019 --> 00:37:03.380
I think everybody looks at it from the military

00:37:03.380 --> 00:37:05.519
point of view and social media gives you almost

00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:07.860
too much Information and not all of it is real

00:37:07.860 --> 00:37:10.340
right Top Gun wasn't real There's nothing in

00:37:10.340 --> 00:37:12.480
Top Gun that was real -life Navy, but it you

00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:14.079
know It's a movie and it's meant to be a movie

00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:18.159
and even today the commercials you see It's not

00:37:18.159 --> 00:37:20.639
really what the military is, and I don't know

00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:22.300
if I would have made it through college without

00:37:22.300 --> 00:37:24.820
it, right? Because the first day, you're sitting

00:37:24.820 --> 00:37:26.840
there, you're at attention, you're making uniform,

00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:28.840
you know, they're putting in uniforms, and you're

00:37:28.840 --> 00:37:31.860
marching around, and it instills that... Just

00:37:31.860 --> 00:37:34.059
that mental toughness. I think I already had

00:37:34.059 --> 00:37:36.559
it, but I never realized that until you get Narazi

00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:39.260
and then they have expectations, you just can't

00:37:39.260 --> 00:37:42.400
go out and do what you want. You have a GPA expectation

00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:44.800
or the scholarship goes away and you're getting

00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:46.940
up at five o 'clock in the morning to march on

00:37:46.940 --> 00:37:48.780
Tuesdays and you're in uniform and you're walking

00:37:48.780 --> 00:37:50.500
around the McLean Center where the Badgers play

00:37:50.500 --> 00:37:53.000
football practice and you're learning things,

00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:56.219
right? And it instills that. a character, I'll

00:37:56.219 --> 00:37:58.619
say, as well. Right. It just it changes who you

00:37:58.619 --> 00:38:01.719
are as a person into a more responsible, mature

00:38:01.719 --> 00:38:03.599
kind of character. And I'm not sure I would have

00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:05.940
matured as quickly if I didn't have that. It

00:38:05.940 --> 00:38:10.000
sort of accelerates growing up to be a to be

00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:13.380
an adult. I think that's right. One way to look

00:38:13.380 --> 00:38:15.940
at it, because if you don't, if you don't mature

00:38:15.940 --> 00:38:18.280
quickly, you'll be out and you'll be without

00:38:18.280 --> 00:38:20.059
that scholarship and you'll be spending your

00:38:20.059 --> 00:38:22.780
days back on the farm. So there's a little incentive

00:38:22.780 --> 00:38:31.030
there. But we're back to, and I think in high

00:38:31.030 --> 00:38:36.030
school you had an eye problem. Yeah. I want to

00:38:36.030 --> 00:38:37.389
mention that because then we're going to talk

00:38:37.389 --> 00:38:39.269
about the problem in college. Then we're going

00:38:39.269 --> 00:38:41.650
to talk about the problem in the Navy. So let's

00:38:41.650 --> 00:38:43.989
start with the eye problem. There's so many problems,

00:38:44.170 --> 00:38:45.969
Jim. I appreciate you keeping me in line there.

00:38:48.039 --> 00:38:49.719
We were good there so that the first problem

00:38:49.719 --> 00:38:51.559
was just the weight really and you know losing

00:38:51.559 --> 00:38:53.760
the weight was the problem and then there was

00:38:53.760 --> 00:38:55.860
a day on a tennis court and you know if you were

00:38:55.860 --> 00:38:58.599
back in the 80s there was no safety equipment

00:38:58.599 --> 00:39:00.960
right so we were having a tennis thing for gym

00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:02.659
right where we go and learn how to play tennis

00:39:02.659 --> 00:39:05.059
and keep score and they had a little ball machine

00:39:05.059 --> 00:39:07.800
and we'd hit it back and one day I look up trying

00:39:07.800 --> 00:39:09.539
to fill the balls in the ball machine and I hit

00:39:09.539 --> 00:39:11.539
it my buddy of mine hit a tennis ball back and

00:39:11.539 --> 00:39:16.489
hit me square in the eye No goggles, no protective

00:39:16.489 --> 00:39:18.590
equipment. We just didn't think about that stuff

00:39:18.590 --> 00:39:23.070
back then. I kind of let it go until I ran into

00:39:23.070 --> 00:39:26.550
a neighbor and she saw my eye and it was purple.

00:39:27.070 --> 00:39:28.909
Usually your purple isn't a color when you go

00:39:28.909 --> 00:39:30.949
for your eye color on any kind of application.

00:39:31.570 --> 00:39:33.510
She could see there was blood pooling in my eye

00:39:33.510 --> 00:39:36.050
and grabbed me and took me home and ended up

00:39:36.050 --> 00:39:39.699
in the hospital. It was a hyphae month. So the

00:39:39.699 --> 00:39:41.300
tennis ball didn't pop the eye, but it made this

00:39:41.300 --> 00:39:43.519
big packet of blood back on the retina. And so

00:39:43.519 --> 00:39:45.840
I had to kind of sit in the hospital. And where

00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:48.099
this comes is now I'm scared, right? I'm just

00:39:48.099 --> 00:39:50.119
a young, I think, sophomore at the time in high

00:39:50.119 --> 00:39:52.480
school. And they have to patch both my eyes.

00:39:52.500 --> 00:39:54.039
Because as you know, if you move one eye, the

00:39:54.039 --> 00:39:55.860
other eye is going to move. And so if I have

00:39:55.860 --> 00:39:57.360
one eye free, I'm still going to look around.

00:39:57.760 --> 00:40:00.420
And so it was the first time for seven days.

00:40:00.909 --> 00:40:03.670
I had sat there in complete darkness and stillness

00:40:03.670 --> 00:40:05.969
and blindness and it, you know, you kind of get

00:40:05.969 --> 00:40:08.050
in your head. I really wasn't prepared for for

00:40:08.050 --> 00:40:10.550
how hard and difficult that was to get through

00:40:10.550 --> 00:40:13.989
that time. Yeah. And again, veteran radio listeners

00:40:13.989 --> 00:40:17.170
were talking to this pilot who had this dream

00:40:17.170 --> 00:40:19.889
from being a young kid. Well, we all know you

00:40:19.889 --> 00:40:22.349
got to be able to see to fly and you got to be

00:40:22.349 --> 00:40:26.130
seven days of not being able to look out. you've

00:40:26.130 --> 00:40:28.449
got to be thinking, is that dream over with?

00:40:29.010 --> 00:40:31.489
Obviously, you overcame that problem. Everything

00:40:31.489 --> 00:40:36.250
healed up. We get to college. Life is beautiful.

00:40:36.769 --> 00:40:40.070
Everything's wonderful. And then you run into

00:40:40.070 --> 00:40:43.429
another medical problem, this time with a lung.

00:40:43.869 --> 00:40:46.449
Tell us about it. Yeah, I thought. I definitely

00:40:46.449 --> 00:40:49.269
thought the eye might be a distractor as we got

00:40:49.269 --> 00:40:52.130
there. But there was a lot of time lapse between

00:40:52.130 --> 00:40:53.630
sophomore and high school. But still, it was

00:40:53.630 --> 00:40:56.190
on my mind for that first entrance physical,

00:40:56.369 --> 00:40:57.869
right? Are they going to find that little scar

00:40:57.869 --> 00:41:00.250
tissue in my eye? And back in those days, we

00:41:00.250 --> 00:41:01.630
didn't have internet where you could look things

00:41:01.630 --> 00:41:03.969
up. So what you knew is what you knew. And so

00:41:03.969 --> 00:41:06.510
that was scary. And actually, that also means

00:41:06.510 --> 00:41:09.429
that the medical exam couldn't find a digital

00:41:09.429 --> 00:41:12.150
record of that problem. That's right. That is

00:41:12.150 --> 00:41:16.610
true. Which today has often created bumps in

00:41:16.610 --> 00:41:18.949
the road, because they find, oh, when you were

00:41:18.949 --> 00:41:20.969
a kid, you had this problem or that problem.

00:41:21.349 --> 00:41:24.429
But let's get us to college, because this becomes

00:41:24.429 --> 00:41:27.489
even more dramatic. Yeah, the issues definitely

00:41:27.489 --> 00:41:29.849
amplify as they move along. But yeah, I never

00:41:29.849 --> 00:41:32.230
really happened to mention that. I just forgot

00:41:32.230 --> 00:41:33.889
about it, too, when I filled out that application.

00:41:34.570 --> 00:41:38.909
I don't know why, I just did. But yeah, in college,

00:41:39.010 --> 00:41:40.969
you know, college was going great, and I was

00:41:40.969 --> 00:41:42.889
really in shape, things were going well, and

00:41:42.889 --> 00:41:45.449
it really wasn't until my senior year that last

00:41:45.449 --> 00:41:48.150
year where I kind of crossed that threshold like,

00:41:48.429 --> 00:41:51.550
hey, I was a little bit excited. I'll even say

00:41:51.550 --> 00:41:53.289
a little bit arrogant, right? The whole world's

00:41:53.289 --> 00:41:55.070
in front of me, and I'm going to flight school,

00:41:55.090 --> 00:41:58.019
and I get accepted. It was that beautiful Friday

00:41:58.019 --> 00:42:00.619
afternoon after classes in the fall and the leaves

00:42:00.619 --> 00:42:03.039
were turning and I had my baseball cap, my badger

00:42:03.039 --> 00:42:05.739
cap on backwards with my Walkman pinned to my

00:42:05.739 --> 00:42:07.980
shorts listening to my Whitesnake cassette and

00:42:07.980 --> 00:42:10.099
I go out on a run and I come back and all of

00:42:10.099 --> 00:42:12.260
a sudden I'm about a mile from home and it feels

00:42:12.260 --> 00:42:14.960
like someone stabbed me in the back. And I actually

00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:16.760
looked around to see if there was an assailant,

00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:20.340
right? Like it felt that real. And then come

00:42:20.340 --> 00:42:22.739
the weekend, like the lung hurt, I'm kind of

00:42:22.739 --> 00:42:25.820
moving around and my lungs sloshing around like

00:42:25.820 --> 00:42:28.760
there's a little bit of water in my lung. It's

00:42:28.760 --> 00:42:31.659
hard to understand what's going on. My breathing

00:42:31.659 --> 00:42:35.039
rate elevates quite a bit. I get through Friday

00:42:35.039 --> 00:42:37.380
night, I get through Saturday, I go to the emergency

00:42:37.380 --> 00:42:40.239
room on Sunday and I'm sitting there breathing

00:42:40.239 --> 00:42:42.829
like I'm running a marathon. Go up to the front

00:42:42.829 --> 00:42:45.329
desk. They had me fill up paperwork. I'm panting

00:42:45.329 --> 00:42:47.909
like a dog, sitting trying to fill this paperwork

00:42:47.909 --> 00:42:51.449
out. Hand it back, and I sit in the ER for 45

00:42:51.449 --> 00:42:55.050
more minutes, just almost unable to breathe.

00:42:55.530 --> 00:42:58.150
Can't take any more. I go up and ask, and they

00:42:58.150 --> 00:43:00.210
say it's going to be some time. I said, well,

00:43:00.469 --> 00:43:02.650
I can't do this anymore. I go home. So I go home,

00:43:02.769 --> 00:43:05.369
lay down, go to bed. Again, panting away, but

00:43:05.369 --> 00:43:08.469
laying down kind of helped. Next morning I get

00:43:08.469 --> 00:43:11.469
up. It's Monday. So the the Navy University of

00:43:11.469 --> 00:43:13.610
Wisconsin medical clinic was open So I just I'm

00:43:13.610 --> 00:43:15.150
like let's go in there because I can't go to

00:43:15.150 --> 00:43:17.070
class like this. I can I can hardly breathe It's

00:43:17.070 --> 00:43:20.570
labor breathing. My chest is heavy I go in they

00:43:20.570 --> 00:43:23.210
take an x -ray and before I even know what's

00:43:23.210 --> 00:43:25.809
going on I get thrown in a wheelchair into the

00:43:25.809 --> 00:43:28.650
back of an ambulance and just sent to the emergency

00:43:28.650 --> 00:43:31.409
room at University of Wisconsin Hospital And

00:43:31.409 --> 00:43:33.550
so I have no idea what's going on right at this

00:43:33.550 --> 00:43:35.110
point I don't even know if I have a thought because

00:43:35.110 --> 00:43:39.530
it's all so dramatic They rush me in, throw me

00:43:39.530 --> 00:43:41.510
on the table. I mean, it wasn't really nice,

00:43:41.550 --> 00:43:43.610
like you see in the movies, like it was tossing

00:43:43.610 --> 00:43:46.510
me around. And they put me on my side, pull my

00:43:46.510 --> 00:43:49.750
shirt up. Nurse grabs my hand, starts talking

00:43:49.750 --> 00:43:51.869
to me, and I see out of my left eye, this doctor

00:43:51.869 --> 00:43:54.030
just kind of feeling with my ribs, takes a scalpel

00:43:54.030 --> 00:43:56.710
and poof, right between the ribcage. Still got

00:43:56.710 --> 00:43:59.909
the scar today, still a little sensitive. Sounds

00:43:59.909 --> 00:44:03.449
like a gigantic release of air. I pass out. The

00:44:03.449 --> 00:44:06.289
pain is immeasurable, right? Like I never experienced

00:44:06.289 --> 00:44:09.289
anything at this time in my life. Wake up, tube

00:44:09.289 --> 00:44:12.190
in my chest, doctor comes in, I have a spontaneous

00:44:12.190 --> 00:44:14.789
pneumothorax. spontaneous because it happened

00:44:14.789 --> 00:44:17.250
on its own pneumothorax I have a collapsed lung

00:44:17.250 --> 00:44:20.210
left lung was completely collapsed my heart was

00:44:20.210 --> 00:44:22.710
on the right side of my body my esophagus looked

00:44:22.710 --> 00:44:24.929
like a question mark I was breathing on a half

00:44:24.929 --> 00:44:29.590
and all that pressure was on my heart so it was

00:44:29.590 --> 00:44:31.389
a tension pneumothorax where my heart could have

00:44:31.389 --> 00:44:32.909
stopped any time because it just can overcome

00:44:32.909 --> 00:44:35.369
the pressure of that air escape in my lungs so

00:44:35.369 --> 00:44:37.869
that's what I had to to look forward to right

00:44:37.869 --> 00:44:40.130
at my senior year right before I was ready to

00:44:40.130 --> 00:44:42.820
leave for flight school Yeah, again, this is

00:44:42.820 --> 00:44:45.800
one of these medical complications nobody can

00:44:45.800 --> 00:44:49.679
anticipate and There's a couple of choices that

00:44:49.679 --> 00:44:52.380
you just sort of fold the tent call it a day

00:44:52.380 --> 00:44:55.139
Or figure out how you're gonna get through it

00:44:55.139 --> 00:45:00.099
with some support You got through it tell us

00:45:00.099 --> 00:45:02.860
about getting through it because they kind of

00:45:02.860 --> 00:45:07.079
have to glue your lung back up together Yeah,

00:45:07.400 --> 00:45:10.239
this was really where I was ready to give up,

00:45:10.260 --> 00:45:13.599
probably the first time, because I thought, no

00:45:13.599 --> 00:45:15.920
way. A pilot needs eyes. I'm questionable at

00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:17.719
that. A pilot needs lungs. I don't think there's

00:45:17.719 --> 00:45:20.500
any way. And once the doctor went and did surgery,

00:45:20.780 --> 00:45:22.980
he came back, and he told me, put a couple rows

00:45:22.980 --> 00:45:24.860
of staples in the hole in the top of my lung.

00:45:25.380 --> 00:45:27.780
And what they usually do is they scrape the scar

00:45:27.780 --> 00:45:30.800
tissue, or scrape the lungs. it's irritated and

00:45:30.800 --> 00:45:32.599
when the lung inflates it would adhere itself

00:45:32.599 --> 00:45:34.639
to the wall to kind of keep that lung inflated.

00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:38.159
So just to prevent any kind of additional tear

00:45:38.159 --> 00:45:40.880
in the lung. Well, because I waited three days

00:45:40.880 --> 00:45:42.760
and I kind of went out with friends and there's

00:45:42.760 --> 00:45:45.000
smoky bars back then and hailed all that air.

00:45:45.099 --> 00:45:46.840
I had an infection. He's like, why didn't have

00:45:46.840 --> 00:45:48.579
to scrape? Because there was kind of an infection

00:45:48.579 --> 00:45:52.639
in there. Oh, how lucky. So that's great i didn't

00:45:52.639 --> 00:45:54.480
think anyone like okay but you took care of it

00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:57.039
right until until i think it was that night or

00:45:57.039 --> 00:45:59.599
the night after when my that infection kicked

00:45:59.599 --> 00:46:02.239
over and also my temperature spiked a hundred

00:46:02.239 --> 00:46:04.559
six i'm starting to hallucinate i'm starting

00:46:04.559 --> 00:46:06.599
to have a trouble breathing again and i don't

00:46:06.599 --> 00:46:07.960
think i'm gonna make it through the night i just

00:46:07.960 --> 00:46:11.179
had that feeling. Um, you know call my girlfriend

00:46:11.179 --> 00:46:13.940
at the time said hey, can you come with me? You

00:46:13.940 --> 00:46:15.440
know, I just I just I just don't think I want

00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:17.659
to make it I need I need somebody here and you

00:46:17.659 --> 00:46:20.360
know This is the point where she's making excuses

00:46:20.360 --> 00:46:22.679
and the relationship ends right there, right?

00:46:22.900 --> 00:46:24.760
So it's not just the long it's not just flight

00:46:24.760 --> 00:46:26.579
school I was dating this girl for five years

00:46:26.579 --> 00:46:28.480
my high school sweetheart and she leaves me sitting

00:46:28.480 --> 00:46:30.860
there in a hospital So if there's a culmination

00:46:30.860 --> 00:46:32.699
where i'm just ready to give up. It was that

00:46:32.699 --> 00:46:35.739
point right there And as I say you get through

00:46:35.739 --> 00:46:38.219
this but it's not without a lot of time passing

00:46:38.219 --> 00:46:41.510
and I don't know. I'm not sure I'd call it luck,

00:46:42.170 --> 00:46:47.449
but fate, because now you medically have to recover,

00:46:47.750 --> 00:46:49.730
physically have to recover, mentally have to

00:46:49.730 --> 00:46:51.710
recover. And oh, by the way, I got to go see

00:46:51.710 --> 00:46:55.869
the flight surgeon. So talk to us about kind

00:46:55.869 --> 00:46:57.929
of what's going on during that period in your

00:46:57.929 --> 00:47:02.489
head and I guess physically. Yeah. And so I thought

00:47:02.489 --> 00:47:04.489
for sure they just pull my papers. And I don't

00:47:04.489 --> 00:47:05.849
know if I'm even in the Navy is going to take

00:47:05.849 --> 00:47:07.829
me anymore. So before I even got to the flight

00:47:07.829 --> 00:47:10.440
surgeon, There were days and days where I couldn't

00:47:10.440 --> 00:47:13.039
walk, I couldn't breathe, I couldn't laugh. I

00:47:13.039 --> 00:47:14.599
could barely go to the bathroom because that

00:47:14.599 --> 00:47:17.400
long, remember all that rib cage just healing

00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:20.599
was the rest of that semester was a blur. Um,

00:47:20.739 --> 00:47:22.400
but, but you know, like you said, I, okay, I

00:47:22.400 --> 00:47:24.019
get the flight school. They let me go, but I'm

00:47:24.019 --> 00:47:25.719
like, there's, they'd let me go because that's

00:47:25.719 --> 00:47:26.980
why I selected, but there's no way I'm going

00:47:26.980 --> 00:47:29.579
to get through that naval aviation medical physical,

00:47:29.579 --> 00:47:32.119
right? Like this is over. So I didn't even unpack

00:47:32.119 --> 00:47:34.519
my clothes. I just kind of found a hotel and

00:47:34.519 --> 00:47:36.699
stayed and went in there. And if you've ever

00:47:36.699 --> 00:47:38.760
sweat before, I'll tell you, I was sweating in

00:47:38.760 --> 00:47:40.920
front of that doctor. It was a full day of tests.

00:47:41.000 --> 00:47:42.500
They looked at everything. I didn't lie about

00:47:42.500 --> 00:47:44.440
the lung because I still had the open scar pretty

00:47:44.440 --> 00:47:47.099
much. And he looked at me, and he looked at my

00:47:47.099 --> 00:47:49.519
record, and there was a pregnant pause that lasted

00:47:49.519 --> 00:47:52.219
two years if it lasted 30 seconds, right? And

00:47:52.219 --> 00:47:54.300
I'm for sure he'd be like, sorry. Like, I was

00:47:54.300 --> 00:47:56.280
just waiting for that. And when he's like, oh,

00:47:56.280 --> 00:47:59.019
you're cleared, and he signed that medical clearance

00:47:59.019 --> 00:48:01.219
form and handed it to me, otherwise known as

00:48:01.219 --> 00:48:04.719
an up -chit for those aviators, boy, I was shocked.

00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:07.019
I thought I'd be happy, but I think I was shocked

00:48:07.019 --> 00:48:08.780
and stunned in that moment that I'm sitting here

00:48:08.780 --> 00:48:11.179
with an up -chit like, I'm going to fly, because

00:48:11.179 --> 00:48:13.460
I never thought it was possible. And what year

00:48:13.460 --> 00:48:19.980
is this now? This right now is 1996. So I graduated

00:48:19.980 --> 00:48:23.000
in 96, so I've been late 96, maybe early 97.

00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:27.760
So off the flight school and you do some activities

00:48:27.760 --> 00:48:35.159
at Pensacola, is it? And you get through flight

00:48:35.159 --> 00:48:38.159
school and then you're off to, I think maybe

00:48:38.159 --> 00:48:42.349
it's Puerto Rico? Yeah, so if the quick the quick

00:48:42.349 --> 00:48:44.110
is you go to flight school in Pensacola everybody

00:48:44.110 --> 00:48:46.250
goes there aviation pre -flight indoctrination

00:48:46.250 --> 00:48:49.869
And then you kind of do t34s I selected p3s because

00:48:49.869 --> 00:48:51.730
it seemed like the great kind of personality

00:48:51.730 --> 00:48:53.730
and lifestyle I wanted even though Top Gun was

00:48:53.730 --> 00:48:56.449
all jets go to Corpus Christi, Texas for advanced

00:48:56.449 --> 00:48:58.469
you get winged down there Send you to Jacksonville,

00:48:58.469 --> 00:48:59.829
Florida, and that's why I learned to fly the

00:48:59.829 --> 00:49:02.750
p3 That's a couple months. It's now about beginning

00:49:02.750 --> 00:49:07.130
in 1998 and I'm finishing up No more problems.

00:49:07.369 --> 00:49:09.829
The rest of your career is just straightforward,

00:49:09.989 --> 00:49:12.030
isn't it? That's what I thought. Just like you

00:49:12.030 --> 00:49:14.489
said, hey, the past is behind me. I'm in the

00:49:14.489 --> 00:49:16.329
Navy. One, I never thought I'd get here after

00:49:16.329 --> 00:49:18.329
all of that. Nothing else is going to go wrong,

00:49:18.489 --> 00:49:21.829
right? Big, big question mark. And then I select

00:49:21.829 --> 00:49:23.849
from my squadron. They're on deployment. They

00:49:23.849 --> 00:49:26.510
give me a call. And then I'm like, all right.

00:49:26.570 --> 00:49:28.469
So I go down there, meet them in Puerto Rico.

00:49:28.840 --> 00:49:30.719
Do a couple flights in Puerto Rico. We go to

00:49:30.719 --> 00:49:32.539
Panama with my crew for a month. I am living

00:49:32.539 --> 00:49:34.159
the dream. Panama, if you've never been to Panama

00:49:34.159 --> 00:49:36.579
City, Panama. Man, it was so much fun flying

00:49:36.579 --> 00:49:40.659
out of Rodman Air Force Base there. And then

00:49:40.659 --> 00:49:42.980
one day I wake up and we head back to Puerto

00:49:42.980 --> 00:49:44.659
Rico just for some little bit of training and

00:49:44.659 --> 00:49:46.360
some rest. And we're going to Panama again the

00:49:46.360 --> 00:49:48.519
next day. And I'm super excited. And I wake up

00:49:48.519 --> 00:49:53.659
with some chest pain. Oh, boy. So I'm like, all

00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:55.400
right, it was so bad. I couldn't get out of bed

00:49:55.400 --> 00:49:57.239
It was again back to the lung where it felt like

00:49:57.239 --> 00:49:58.900
someone stabbed me in the back and I'm like I'm

00:49:58.900 --> 00:50:00.820
breathing Okay, I can't be the lung. So I'm like

00:50:00.820 --> 00:50:02.980
me go to the dock. I got an hour before pre -flight

00:50:02.980 --> 00:50:06.599
So I go to the dock they they take some x -rays

00:50:06.599 --> 00:50:09.800
He takes a long time. He comes back. I'm now

00:50:09.800 --> 00:50:11.619
late for pre -flight now I'm not worried about

00:50:11.619 --> 00:50:13.219
the health anymore. I need to get to the plane.

00:50:13.219 --> 00:50:15.119
I just really want to get back in the cockpit

00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:17.360
I don't I can't think about another medical problem

00:50:17.360 --> 00:50:19.519
and he didn't even tell me what it was. He's

00:50:19.519 --> 00:50:24.050
like, sorry you're down And tomorrow you're leaving

00:50:24.050 --> 00:50:27.510
on a medevac to Bethesda, Maryland for some tests.

00:50:27.769 --> 00:50:31.050
That's all I heard. So I packed a small bag thinking,

00:50:31.070 --> 00:50:32.349
oh, I'm going to be back. He didn't say anything

00:50:32.349 --> 00:50:34.750
about a long -term stay. He just said some tests.

00:50:35.409 --> 00:50:37.530
And so I really didn't take anything. I jumped

00:50:37.530 --> 00:50:40.110
in a plane. Flight surgeon came with me. We jumped

00:50:40.110 --> 00:50:42.150
to Bethesda. And there's no time wait, right?

00:50:42.150 --> 00:50:45.250
We go right to the hospital. And it is different

00:50:45.250 --> 00:50:47.590
place after different place, ENT throat. They

00:50:47.590 --> 00:50:49.610
took some blood. They took some bone marrow.

00:50:50.349 --> 00:50:52.630
And all of a sudden, I'm in front of the oncologist.

00:50:52.869 --> 00:50:55.489
I don't know what an oncologist is back in those

00:50:55.489 --> 00:50:57.590
days, right? And then he sits down in front of

00:50:57.590 --> 00:51:00.329
me and he's like, so the test came back. They

00:51:00.329 --> 00:51:03.230
took a little bump out of my neck, part of a

00:51:03.230 --> 00:51:05.210
lymph node. And he's like, well, we got the results

00:51:05.210 --> 00:51:07.849
back and you have Hodgkin's lymphoma. And I look

00:51:07.849 --> 00:51:10.050
around the room a little bit like, are you talking

00:51:10.050 --> 00:51:12.610
to me? Like, I'm healthy. I'm running. Like,

00:51:12.630 --> 00:51:14.010
what do you mean Hodgkin's lymphoma and what

00:51:14.010 --> 00:51:18.369
is that? Yeah, this is, again, one of these like,

00:51:18.369 --> 00:51:23.389
OK. When is enough enough? both from a personal

00:51:23.389 --> 00:51:27.630
standpoint, but but now it seems that that's

00:51:27.630 --> 00:51:30.090
That's a cancer diagnosis. It's got to sound

00:51:30.090 --> 00:51:34.369
like okay that ends my career. Yeah Yep, and

00:51:34.369 --> 00:51:36.010
it wasn't even understanding the cancer because

00:51:36.010 --> 00:51:37.570
it's again. I did didn't really have internet

00:51:37.570 --> 00:51:39.250
You can't just go research hot skins and foam

00:51:39.250 --> 00:51:40.750
and gives you all the symptoms. You're like Oh,

00:51:40.750 --> 00:51:42.329
here's a bunch of pamphlets He gave me and I

00:51:42.329 --> 00:51:44.309
only knew what I could read in front of me And

00:51:44.309 --> 00:51:46.010
he's like and by the way in ten days you start

00:51:46.010 --> 00:51:49.820
chemo And there's a 50 % chance you could be

00:51:49.820 --> 00:51:51.739
sterile from chemo. So now I'm thinking, wow,

00:51:52.079 --> 00:51:54.679
so now I'm not flying. I'm starting this chemotherapy.

00:51:54.920 --> 00:51:56.440
So now I'm starting to, you know, the gravity

00:51:56.440 --> 00:51:58.400
is starting to kick in and like, this is big,

00:51:58.800 --> 00:52:01.199
right? Like this, I actually didn't start thinking

00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:03.179
about flying. I'm just now thinking about, am

00:52:03.179 --> 00:52:06.519
I going to make it through this? And one of the

00:52:06.519 --> 00:52:08.480
things too, I think most of our veteran radio

00:52:08.480 --> 00:52:12.719
listeners having been in the military or have

00:52:12.719 --> 00:52:15.139
friends and family in the military understand

00:52:15.139 --> 00:52:18.840
that that the military medicine is pretty damn

00:52:18.840 --> 00:52:23.079
good, that the doctors and the nurses and the

00:52:23.079 --> 00:52:25.940
specialists really kind of have trained. And

00:52:25.940 --> 00:52:27.760
some of these folks are the best of the best.

00:52:28.280 --> 00:52:33.420
And you received great medical care getting you

00:52:33.420 --> 00:52:37.119
through this. But at that point, you're just

00:52:37.119 --> 00:52:41.360
sort of thinking, what the heck has my life turned

00:52:41.360 --> 00:52:45.280
into? Yeah, you know in a lot of the book I really

00:52:45.280 --> 00:52:47.000
kind of anchored at this point because there

00:52:47.000 --> 00:52:49.239
was a lot You know, it's not just go to chemo

00:52:49.239 --> 00:52:52.360
and go home and you know every every cancer is

00:52:52.360 --> 00:52:55.019
different every treatments different and so You

00:52:55.019 --> 00:52:56.840
all fall into the same umbrella, but everybody

00:52:56.840 --> 00:52:59.219
has different experience even with the same chemo

00:52:59.219 --> 00:53:01.099
So in the book I anchor a little bit about kind

00:53:01.099 --> 00:53:02.980
of going treatment to treatment and kind of that

00:53:02.980 --> 00:53:04.980
I call it the staircase into the basement You

00:53:04.980 --> 00:53:07.059
kind of level off and then they step down a chemo

00:53:07.059 --> 00:53:09.139
level off and step down and you never quite make

00:53:09.139 --> 00:53:11.579
it back up And it's just a continual kind of

00:53:11.579 --> 00:53:14.079
body degradation from losing the hair, to losing

00:53:14.079 --> 00:53:17.820
the weight, to just no energy. And it was great

00:53:17.820 --> 00:53:21.139
care. But my body was taking a physical toll.

00:53:21.280 --> 00:53:23.440
And there were times where I didn't think I was

00:53:23.440 --> 00:53:26.500
going to make it out. But they told me six months.

00:53:27.509 --> 00:53:29.590
Six cycles, so every cycle is two treatments.

00:53:29.710 --> 00:53:32.010
So 12 treatments, six months, and I'm done. And

00:53:32.010 --> 00:53:33.650
they take a CAT scan to make sure the tumors

00:53:33.650 --> 00:53:37.389
are reducing. And an emergency within an emergency

00:53:37.389 --> 00:53:39.429
then happens at month six, right? I get to month

00:53:39.429 --> 00:53:41.769
six. I actually got some energy thinking, hey,

00:53:41.809 --> 00:53:43.530
this is it. I'm going to go in. The doctor is

00:53:43.530 --> 00:53:46.090
going to say I'm done. And I can leave. And he

00:53:46.090 --> 00:53:48.030
says, well, there's a further reduction in the

00:53:48.030 --> 00:53:50.349
tumor. So we're going to have to either do radiation.

00:53:50.909 --> 00:53:52.530
Well, first he just says, we're going to do radiation.

00:53:52.630 --> 00:53:54.090
And then I fought with the doctor a little bit.

00:53:54.130 --> 00:53:55.869
I said, I'm not doing radiation. This is working.

00:53:56.429 --> 00:53:57.989
And so then he's like, well, then you're doing

00:53:57.989 --> 00:54:00.050
two more cycles of chemo, four more treatments.

00:54:00.110 --> 00:54:03.289
And at that point, any kind of hope I had just

00:54:03.289 --> 00:54:05.050
just went out the window. Like I'm like, I can't

00:54:05.050 --> 00:54:07.690
do four more treatments. I am not going to make

00:54:07.690 --> 00:54:09.969
it through this. And so that was kind of an emergency

00:54:09.969 --> 00:54:14.989
within an emergency. Yeah. And you know, let's

00:54:14.989 --> 00:54:17.969
talk a little bit about who the audience for

00:54:17.969 --> 00:54:20.949
this book is, because while we're talking about

00:54:20.949 --> 00:54:24.670
it here on Veterans Radio. And certainly a lot

00:54:24.670 --> 00:54:27.710
of veterans, even post -service, have a lot of

00:54:27.710 --> 00:54:31.210
medical challenges that I think this book would

00:54:31.210 --> 00:54:34.130
help them realize, hey, stick with it, you'll

00:54:34.130 --> 00:54:36.409
get through it. But when you were writing this,

00:54:36.949 --> 00:54:40.980
who did you feel your audience was? So I think

00:54:40.980 --> 00:54:43.280
that was the hardest part of writing the book

00:54:43.280 --> 00:54:46.920
was one I had to dig up a lot of memories and

00:54:46.920 --> 00:54:48.940
thoughts that I buried right and so I had to

00:54:48.940 --> 00:54:52.159
go through those emotions and so you know I I

00:54:52.159 --> 00:54:54.099
got the chills a lot when I started thinking

00:54:54.099 --> 00:54:56.179
about the chemo and and there's a lot more in

00:54:56.179 --> 00:54:57.820
there packed in as you read the book and we'll

00:54:57.820 --> 00:54:59.559
let the readers kind of maybe experience the

00:54:59.559 --> 00:55:02.099
book but you know I had to if I'm going to write

00:55:02.099 --> 00:55:05.960
this honestly and raw I have to put myself back

00:55:05.960 --> 00:55:08.079
in there and so at first I thought I was just

00:55:08.079 --> 00:55:09.699
gonna write it to people who are undergoing cancer

00:55:09.639 --> 00:55:11.699
answer going through an issue. But the more I

00:55:11.699 --> 00:55:14.219
wrote, it doesn't matter what the challenge is.

00:55:14.320 --> 00:55:20.000
The problem is, it's resilience redefined. It's

00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:22.340
about embracing discomfort. This whole life of

00:55:22.340 --> 00:55:23.800
mine has been almost discomfort. And I just have

00:55:23.800 --> 00:55:26.599
to embrace where I'm at, redefine what resilience

00:55:26.599 --> 00:55:29.539
is, and just find my way with grit. And it's

00:55:29.539 --> 00:55:31.900
just a story of true grit for anybody who needs

00:55:31.900 --> 00:55:34.719
a story that really has a lot of grit in it.

00:55:35.320 --> 00:55:40.760
It really is a fantastic, easy read. inspirational,

00:55:42.280 --> 00:55:46.280
clearly has military applications, but that larger

00:55:46.280 --> 00:55:48.699
issue that he's pointed out about just having

00:55:48.699 --> 00:55:51.860
grit. So thanks for listening to Veterans Radio

00:55:51.860 --> 00:55:55.579
today. It's one of those longer interviews you'd

00:55:55.579 --> 00:55:59.420
find on our podcast if you went there, and we're

00:55:59.420 --> 00:56:01.980
really appreciative, Dale and I, that we're going

00:56:01.980 --> 00:56:05.500
into our 22nd year, I believe it is, on Veterans

00:56:05.500 --> 00:56:09.239
Radio. We have a lot to be thankful for, both

00:56:09.239 --> 00:56:12.960
family, community, and the support that we give

00:56:12.960 --> 00:56:16.840
and get from doing Veterans Radio. So we hope

00:56:16.840 --> 00:56:20.739
that at this time of year, you've got things

00:56:20.739 --> 00:56:24.460
to be thankful for. Maybe it's because your health

00:56:24.460 --> 00:56:28.739
is better than Sean Libby's who's on weekly dialysis

00:56:28.739 --> 00:56:31.679
and waiting for a kidney. Maybe it's because

00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:35.000
you've overcome with grit and resilience some

00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:37.079
of those things that Derek just talked about.

00:56:37.900 --> 00:56:40.800
But in any event, we're grateful for you listening.

00:56:41.440 --> 00:56:44.440
Go check out veteransradio .org in our podcast.

00:56:45.079 --> 00:56:48.019
And until next week when Dale's back, this is

00:56:48.019 --> 00:56:52.530
Jim Fossone and you are... Dismissed