All across America and around the world, this
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day. I'm Jim Fossone. I'm the Officer of the
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Now we've got an interesting program for you
today kind of in the spirit of Thanksgiving.
We're going to hear from two veterans. who had
a lot to be thankful for because of Well challenges
medical challenges that they had and they're
one of them Successfully through all those challenges
and finished his career and another is still
fighting those challenges So I think you'll find
these interesting and in the end It'll give you
something to be thankful for too We want to welcome
to veterans radio a Marine Sean Libby, who's
got a story to tell. I don't know how to phrase
the story. It's not interesting. It's an important
story to tell that maybe our veteran radio listeners
can help out on. And if not his particular situation,
maybe the larger issue of organ transplants.
Sean, welcome to Veterans Radio. Thank you. Thank
you. I really appreciate being here. And I really,
really appreciate you reaching out and scheduling
this for me to talk about this. Well, you know,
your story is somewhat typical, right? Get out
of high school, go into the Marines, end up in
Afghanistan. You were a diesel mechanic. You
did all the stuff that you have to do to support
the front... forward of war fighters and everybody
who's been in Afghanistan knows and certainly
I hope most of the veteran radio listeners know
about burn pits which were very common over there
you know there was nowhere these were huge bases
without any sort of uh landfill disposal and
you just burn stuff right yeah there's no waste
management in Afghanistan so you just you just
burn everything and uh you burn it by and that's
uh plastics, cardboard, wood, computers with
metals in them, biologicals, everything. We won't
get to a graphic. But again, anybody who's been
there or anybody who's read anything recently,
you know, kind of understands what went on during
those 20 years. And even the stuff that you'd
use to start the fires. wasn't necessarily good
for you, right? Right. Gasoline on. Yeah. Yeah.
JP for it. Yeah. Just to burn it all. Yeah. The
ultimate, the ultimate barbecue fire pit started.
Absolutely. Yeah. No, there's a, yeah. Something
I didn't. Yeah. Something we didn't know about.
Um, and what was crazy is that, uh, so I got
out in a, so I got back from Afghanistan, like,
you know, whatever mid 2012, and then I had like
six to eight months left. And so when I got out,
They noted I had toxic exposure when I got out.
I didn't know it until I filed a claim, May 2024,
and it got immediately denied. But one of the
things that said certain things in your favor
was that we conceded you had toxic exposure.
That was the first time I ever knew about it.
It was 2023. And that word toxic, you went...
Whoa, what are they talking about here? When
did you get out of service? It was February 2013.
So you had noticed some time after that, I think
I read somewhere quite a number of months later,
you started to have some health issues. When
I got out, I didn't notice I had health issues
when I got out, but they put me on on some medications,
atorvastatin and lisinopril for like cholesterol.
I wasn't even sure why they put that on me, but
they put it, they just gave it to me. I took
it and then that was in 2014. I had moved to
Michigan in 2014 to the UP, which you may, you
know that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I moved to the
I moved to the U .P. in 2014. I actually was
going to like Great Lakes Boat Building School.
So I did some traditional, you know, got into
a trade school and I got with the VA there. They
gave me those two medications I mentioned. And
then there's like they just would be like, watch
your fluids, your potassium, your sodium. You're
fine. You're good. And then 2015, I had gotten
a sleep study done and I was diagnosed with moderate
severe sleep apnea. in 2015. And then after that,
I really started focusing. I was going to the
gym. I was eating healthy, you know, in protein.
I was just, you know, getting really healthy.
And then 2017 came around and then they were
like, you know, hey, let's do a biopsy on your
kidney. And I was like, okay. So we did a biopsy.
They're like, you have i -januropathy and FSGS.
And I didn't know what that meant at all. And
it was this very, it was this Indian nephrologist
I say Indian because he just had a very thick
accent. So it was somewhat hard to understand
him. So he hands me this handwritten script for
like Predazone and for some other meds. And he's
like, go down to Walgreens, go grab it. And I
go down to Walgreens and they asked, are you
going to pay for this out of pocket? These are
very expensive. And I said, no, I can't afford
this. So shortly after that, that was late 2017.
And then 2018, I moved to Washington here. And
I get with the VA here. And same thing. It's
Lysinopril, Torvastatin. They're like, hey, watch
your sodiums, watch your potassiums. But you
look great. You look healthy. You're fantastic.
How were you feeling at that point? I felt fine.
But when I think about it, something deep inside
me felt off. Something felt off. I didn't feel
quite right. And that's why I was going to the
gym. I was eating really healthy. I was tracking
all my proteins, carbs, and fats. But despite
me fighting this feeling, it still felt off.
Something felt off still. So yeah, that was 2018,
2019. And then, yeah, so it wasn't until 2023
that I went into full kidney failure. Late 2022,
I started having more symptoms, itchy legs, I
was having unexplained tiredness, but I brushed
it off. It wasn't a big deal other than that.
I was like doing okay, working full time, busting
my butt. You're a young, you're a young guy.
You're healthy looking. You're going like, I
don't, you know, maybe I just like party too
much or I got to sleep more or something. But
yeah, I'll sleep more. Maybe I'm not sleeping
good. I, you know, I got to sleep a CPAP machine.
So, you know, whatever it could be that, but
I was still eating healthy. I'm going to the
gym. I'm working full time, working my butt off.
And then yeah. Um, February. January, February,
I started retaining so much fluid, right? It
was getting so hard to breathe. I was getting
exhausted just doing simple stuff. I finally
went to the ER February, 2023, and they're like,
Sean, you have NSAID kidney disease. You're gonna
need dialysis. You're gonna need a kidney. And
those are the first time I've ever heard those
words. I've never heard dialysis or organ transplant
in my life until 2023 of February. And then,
yeah. And this is what I want to get across to
folks is that it's a process of, you outlined
the number of years it took and really it was
the fluid buildup that kind of manifested, hey,
my kidneys aren't working right. I'm not, I'll
use the polite term, I'm not voiding this stuff
out. I'm retaining all this fluid. But prior
to that, Nobody at the VA said, hey, you might
be starting some kidney problems. Nothing. Even
when I got that biopsy done, and this nephrologist
has said you have IG nephropathy and FSGS, nobody
had ever mentioned dialysis or organ failure.
Not those two words. Or where that condition
could lead to. Absolutely. Nobody mentioned this.
Nothing. Not a single. And that's how it's always
been with the VA. It's like that last 10%. of
where it's like that last 10 % of care just is
not there. And that's where I've had the hardest
time. So after 2023 into 2024, you begin thinking
about like, how did this happen to me? Yeah.
And in your research, or was there a doctor or
a nurse who said, hey, you know that toxic exposure
you had from the burn pits? That could have been
a source. No. No, I started dialysis 20. So May
sorry. Yeah, February I went into failure and
the VA Still was like hey, let's put you on some
diuretics. Let's put you on tarosamide and forosamide
and let's see if this goes away And then so I
went February, March, April, and it was just
getting worse. It wasn't until a civilian doctor
in May said, Sean, if you don't get emergency
surgery, if you don't get emergency dialysis
this weekend, you're not going to make it. So
I had to do that. I had to go out of my way,
go to the ER, opt for dialysis. And then, yeah,
the first time I experienced it, you know, I
had a little like a, it was like a mini seizure,
a vasovagal little moment, but finally I was
getting some fluid off of me. And then I started
dialysis. It wasn't until, you know, it wasn't
until I thought of it until a year later, May
2024, when I was like, damn, is this is this
really my fault? Like, is this is this not something
to do with the military? Because I'm at the time
I'm 34. Why do I like why? Why am I dealing with
kidney failure at 34? And then there was a, luckily,
sweetheart, the local VSO, the veteran service
officer. I reached out to her. She's like, file
a claim. And I'm like, oh, duh. I got 30 % when
I got out. And then I got 60 % through the sleep
study. And then that was it. I didn't even know
that people are filing all the time for everything,
flat foot or whatever. So whatever they gave
me, anything, I was happy for it. I wasn't trying
to. So, but yeah, so a year later, May 2024,
I filed my first claim for chronic kidney disease.
And then that's when I get denied. And that's
when I find out I had toxic exposure. Nobody
told me this, not for the first full year I was
on dialysis. And the first year was just was
was a whole thing too. I went through the different
the I started dialysis, the chemo. a dialysis
in center. And then within a month, they were
like, Sean, let's get you out the in -home peritoneal
dialysis. So I go under the knife for that surgery.
And then I learn about a new process for dialysis.
I learn how to use the equipment at home. They
throw about 60 boxes in your house. And then
your home turns into a medical facility. And
I'm like, I'm just now learning this whole dialysis
in this life. And then I learn a new process.
and that I started having problems. It moved
like within four weeks it moved so I had to get
a revisional surgery again and then it was still
problematic. So let me back you up. Yeah. Is
VA providing medical care on the kidney failure?
They are no I do an in -center out of it's like
not through the VA there's a local one next to
me and then but it's not community care they're
not paying for it they are paying for they are
paying yeah yes okay through community care okay
yes it's called a yeah it's called Davida is
the name it's a it's a nation to beat as a national
dialysis company has seen them all around the
country. Right, right. One of the things here
is I want to highlight for folks is that while
the PACT Act of 2022 made all kinds of diseases
related to burn pits from Vietnam to Afghanistan,
presumptive conditions, chronic kidney failure
is not. No, it's not. It's not one of them. So
yeah, it took me a year to fight. I was fighting
for a year with them. So you had to go out and
get a private medical, what they call a nexus
letter. And for folks who don't, you know, aren't
intimately involved in this area like you are,
or I am as a disability lawyer, you get a medical
doctor who says it's more likely than not, this
is from this exposure and service. Yes. Yes.
So how did, again, VA doesn't recognize it as
presumptive. How did the how did your doctor
convince them? Hey, this is tied back to his
service So my I had my first nephrologist he
retired shortly, but he wrote me a letter and
He had even mentioned, you know about I had some
numbers showing That I had elevated numbers and
I was getting out and so he had noted it as least
likely as it is not Um, and his letter was, uh,
was actually pretty helpful. And then when he
retired, there was a new nephrologist I was signed.
And she also wrote me a letter to, um, advocating
saying, you know, that, Hey, this, this is not,
you know, this has, you know, ties back to the
burn pit exposure. And, um, yeah, yeah. I mean,
really those two letters were huge for me. And
one of the things that a lot of veterans with
non -presumptive problems do is they kind of
give up. They say, well, F the VA, you guys never
helped me, I'm going somewhere else. But the
disability line or silo at the VA is different
than the healthcare silo. And you had to keep
appealing the disability denials and you got
some lawyers to help you do that. I did. And
ultimately tell us what happened. So shortly
after getting denied, I got denied twice. And
then the VSO, she had reached out to, referred
me to the National Veteran Legal Services Program,
and they were wonderful. I had a lawyer, you
know, Mr. Ryan Kelly, he had all of the information.
He had all of the, showing the burn pits and
everything tied back to the, because I went to,
in Afghanistan, I was in Camp Leatherneck. uh,
fobnole and fobdellaram and all three of those
places had burn pits and he had all the information
on those three places And so he was really really
advocating fighting for me and it took a lot
I think I was I think five denials and we were
caught in this loop because the va whenever they
um, when they get Whatever just the process they
go because you know, they won't make the decision
on themselves, but they will always hire a medical
examiner To do it always an outside medical examiner.
So I would they would assign a medical examiner
that medical examiner I swear they are trained
to say no Because I I filed complaints with each
of the companies that those medical examiners
were working for because like they'd call me
on the phone I'm like coming out dialysis and
for example the first one she's like So what
symptoms are you having to tell you you have
kidney failure and I'm coming out dialysis So
I was like, are you kidding me right now? And
so she, I knew my little attitude to her. I knew
I was going to get denied, but yeah, she was
like, no, not related. And then get denied, you
know, but then you can submit, um, what is the
word for it? A revision or supplemental claim
for more information. Yeah. Yeah. So I submitted
that and then they go back to another medical
examiner. And then I see that person in person.
uh and then she despite all she denies me and
then we go back again and then i get another
person and then we get denied again so we're
in this circle and then i finally get approved
by um because you know once you get denied you
can have a request an informal hearing with a
decision maker right and that's a rule i didn't
know about that i mean mr ryan kelly the lawyer
for nvlsp he knew but i mean how could any veteran
on their own ever know that you can request an
informally here with the decision maker? No.
So we get in this and we're like, hey, we're
just we're getting caught in this loop here like
every single time. So after a year, I finally
got approved for it. And that has been, you know,
a godsend being able to at least I was like I
was coming into financial like losing my home.
I was going to lose my car. I was falling months
behind on all my payments. And despite all so
luckily that worked out. I'm very thankful for
that. You are you are now getting your disability
payments, but you're you're you're getting your
dialysis in the community Yes, and that up But
you're on a transplant list, right? You you need
you need it This is the part again. Most folks
never have experiences. So I want to educate
our veteran radio listeners a little bit here
Sean. Mm -hmm Kidney disease chronic kidney disease
Doesn't reverse itself. There isn't a medication
that fixes this or a surgery, you know clip a
little this take so so You're on a transplant
list you you needed a kidney from somebody Mm
-hmm. I do. Yes, and and when you get with like
I'm active on the VA Portland transplant list
and I am I'm inactive but I'm accepted on the
Swedish transplant out of Seattle. Because when
you are a veteran, you can have one VA transplant
and one non -VA. So you get to be dual listed,
which is great. Currently, I'm working with Swedish
because I'm inactive until I get a few things
settled with them that satisfy theirs. Because
they are a little bit more in depth about their
process than the VA is. But both of those are
a deceased donor. And that's, I mean, to get
off dialysis and have more normal life is absolutely,
that's my life goal now is to have that. But
a deceased donor has an average of eight to 12
years versus a live donor, which can be 20 plus.
So it's just the difference in life is just so
much longer whenever you get a live donor versus
a deceased one. I want to give a little background
of research that I did getting ready for this
because we've never talked to anybody in this
situation on Veterans Radio in 22 years of doing
it. VA performs over 150 kidney transplants annually
at its VA transplant centers. I didn't even know
they had VA transplant centers. They have a number
of them, I guess five of them or something. About
16 % of veterans who need kidney transplants
actually go through the vidni. VA transplant
center but 84 % received a kidney at a non -VA
transplant center. That's what you're talking
about where you're with in Seattle with us. Swedish.
So these are the sorts of things that like people
don't think about. Wow, I mean this is and I
found on the internet there's like a hundred
thousand people on kidney transplant lists so
when Sean says, man, I'm waiting. I'm waiting.
I'm on too long a list, but I'm waiting. That's
a lot of people. If people are like waking up
to this because they're listening into you and
saying, man, this guy got a raw deal. How do
you, how do you help out? And maybe not even
just help out Sean. That'd be great. But, but
how do people help others who may need a kidney
on a transplant list? think advocating for yourself
I think advocating for yourself like instead
of because you know in the military it's always
like you know you go and you change your socks
you take some Motrin you keep going like that's
that's that's what I did but like you really
need to advocate for yourself like not just if
What are we at? Just a few months ago, I had
another Marine buddy that I was with. We were
in Afghanistan a little time. He's like, hey,
I'm having issues. I'm getting tired. My legs
are itching. I'm having problems. And I'm like,
bro, you need to bring this up now. You need
to take this seriously. So it's really, if something
doesn't feel right, you have to say something.
You really need to advocate for yourself. Because
I don't know what the system like. It feels like
the system is just overloaded. And so it's so
hard that if you don't advocate for yourself,
they're going to think you're fine. You really
need to. One of the things I'd add to that is
at least the VA doctors know what burn pits are
and what tax exposure is. But if you're out in
the community and you've got a private doctor,
they have no idea what you experienced in the
military. That's true. They don't know what a
burn pit is. They don't know the tax exposure
issue. You're right, you have to advocate for
yourself if something just, I think you said
at the outset, something just didn't feel right
in the core. Something didn't feel right. That's
why I was like, I was always striving to be healthy
and eat healthy and eat right. Because like something
didn't feel right inside me. And it's like, even
if, I mean, again, at least if they had just
been transparent and be like, Sean, just so you
know, like we don't really even if they had even
been like, we don't even care. Just so you know,
you had toxic exposure and it could lead to this,
like even if they had said something and even
if it ended up with me on dialysis, I at least
could have maybe helped myself out, you know,
by five or 10 years or something, because I could
have been less on protein or less on fluids,
you know, a little bit more strict than I was.
But I. didn't know anything was really wrong.
When I got out, there was a floodgate that was
starting to just slowly open up and led me to
here now. Is there a way for folks to find out
if they have a kidney that works for you, or
is this more of you're trying to get the word
out that, hey, sign the donor form on the back
of your driver's license so that if you pass
away and your kidney is still good, somebody
else gets it? I do have some. I have been working
with this sweet, sweet lady, Miss Mickey Jackson.
I think she reached out to you guys. She wrote
me an article asking for a live donor. And so
there is a person on here trying to help me out
because my blood type is O, which means I'm the
most common one, which means a type O usually
is like the longest, like seven to eight years
on dialysis before you get a kidney. And so it's
harder as a type O because everybody can receive
one, but only O can receive O. Um, so, I mean,
there was, there's a person that she had wrote
with a phone number on here. Um, she's a dialysis
social worker, local to here. I can give you
her name and number if anybody wants to reach
out and see if they are. I think that's a good
thing. Let's do that. It's, it's Angie, right?
Yes. That's it. So Angie is the dialysis social
worker. Her number in Seattle is three six zero
seven three four. 4243. I don't have an email
for her. But again, I think you can probably
check that out, people, if you're like, hey,
man, this motivates me. I want to make sure that
I got good organs and they don't go to waste.
Absolutely. That would be, I mean, yeah, it's,
uh, I mean, through, through my faith in God,
you know, I believe that I'm here from fighting
for a purpose and a reason. Um, you know, and
I, I've been fighting my whole life, um, through
just my adverse, you know, just problems, overcoming
obstacles. And so, yeah, I just, if anybody can,
that'd be the, that'd be the most amazing thing
possible. I would definitely be grateful every
day of my life for something like that. Well,
you know, it's hard to transition out of the
military. I'm sure you had the same experience
as everybody else does when you transition out
and you were in the process of learning a new
trade, something to get motivated on and have
a passion on, which is what you have to have
when you get out of the military. You got to
find a new passion. Absolutely. And then to have
this huge roadblock is really challenging, to
say the least. So let me give Angie's phone number
again. She's a dialysis social worker, 360 -734
-4243, and tell her, hey, I listened to Sean,
and man, you know, Sean Libby made me call you,
and I want to figure out how I can help. Absolutely,
that'd be wonderful. Sean, as we come to the
close of this segment, um what do you want to
say to your other veterans and what do you want
to say to the public in general uh i think you're
really advocating for yourself like it's it's
hard because of not it's not the people that
work in the vh but the system itself it's just
everybody stretched so thin um you know it's
just it can be hard and just advocating for yourself
and if you if there's something that you think
is wrong like bring it up do not hold it in and
that was the thing I always said I always like
I put my work in front of my health for those
last few years that really could have helped
me a little bit more I put it all into work and
I put all of my health problems all of my concerns
to the side and um and it's hard because I mean
I'm a single guy like I don't have children but
like it's a but I just you know I have full -time
job whatever, come out of these. But I don't
have a wife and kids. And if I did, it'd be even
harder to step aside from work and go to your
appointments and go do the blood work. But that's
the biggest thing. Advocating for yourself is
the biggest thing I can say. Well, we appreciate
you coming on Veterans Radio to talk about your
situation and give some advice to your fellow
veterans. And hopefully somebody out there gets
motivated. and reaches out either locally in
their own area or reach out to Angie, see where
that might lead, God may lead it in a direction
that neither of us can imagine at the moment.
But stay strong and we really appreciate you
coming on Veterans Radio. Thank you, Jim. I really
appreciate it for what you do too. I really,
really couldn't be, you know, I appreciate everything
that you're doing and how you're advocating for
us veterans out here. And you've been doing it
for how long you've been doing this? 22 years.
22 years. That's a lifetime. You know, that is,
that's a lifetime. So thank you. I can't imagine
how many thousands or tens or hundreds of thousands
of veterans have heard you and, and have, you
know, benefited from you. So thank you. As I
said, that's a story worth knowing about. Maybe
it inspires you. Maybe you say, you know what,
I should check off that organ donor notation
on my driver's license or let my family's wishes
be known. Or maybe you want to get tested to
see if you're a match for somebody on an organ
donor registry on the kidney donor. And you certainly
can call Angie out in Seattle who's the transplant
coordinator social worker and see if you can
do something there. She's the dialysis social
worker, 360 -734 -4243. And I know Shawn would
really appreciate it. So let's have a few words
from sponsors and then we'll get into the next
story. That's a little more uplifting in that
it has already come through conclusion, but it
wasn't without a lot of effort. Military veterans
touch everyone's life. I'm guessing right now
you're thinking of a veteran, a close friend,
relative. Maybe it's you. Even the toughest of
us sometimes need help but don't know where to
turn for support. You don't need special training
to help a veteran in your life. Even small actions
can make a world of difference. If you know a
veteran in crisis, please call the Veterans Crisis
Line 800 -273 -8255. 800 -273 -8255. A message
from the U .S. Department of Veterans Affairs.
If you have a VA claim denied by the Board of
Veterans' Appeals, contact Legal Help for Veterans
at 1 -800 -693 -4800. They're experts in handling
cases before the U .S. Court of Appeals for Veterans'
claims. Their number again, 1 -800 -693 -4800.
We want to welcome to Veterans Radio today, Derek
Damets, a naval aviator, spent a long time in
the Navy, is out now. You have written a book,
it's your story. kind of a personal memoir called
Unbreakable Wings, Piloting the Impossible Journey
Through Cancer and Naval Aviation. And we just
gave it away a little bit by the title about
some of the struggles, but before we get there,
how did a nice kid from a small town in Wisconsin
get turned into a naval aviator? What was the
impetus? Yeah, you know it kind of started early,
but I didn't recognize it until later You know
being on the farm and growing up and there's
always crop dusters flying overhead and being
a kid sitting on a tractor You know raking hay
or doing yard work or throwing bales There just
was always something intriguing about it and
then of course 1986 comes along and I'm a young
kid and Top Gun comes out and you know There's
a part in the book where I just wanted to see
short -circuit man that Johnny five is alive
that was the movie for me and Dad forced me to
this movie called Top Gun, and I went kicking
and screaming. And when I came out, I'm like,
that's what I want to do. It's like both parts
clicked. Watching that plane fly overhead when
I was young and seeing the military aircraft
flying off the aircraft carrier, I finally, for
the first time, figured, I think that's what
I want to do. I think a lot of people can relate
to the story in that they've had sort of portions
of your upbringing. And by that, I mean Great
relationship with your dad, great relationship
with your grandpa, farm life, hard work, high
school sports. Give us that flavor, because that's
really, Derek, where your foundation is built.
Yeah, it's uh, you know everybody has a story
and nobody really knows everyone else's story
and your story is the only one that you know
and growing up from since I remember it was Get
down on the barn. You're helping milk the cows,
right? And then as a young kid, you don't do
much and as you grow older You're you kind of
take on a lot more responsibility and there's
no vacations. There's no breaks, right? it's
a long day of work in the field just to come
home at 7 p .m and then you got to run to the
barn and feed the dogs and milk the cows and
I think that constant just work ethic is just
kind of how, when you develop at that age, that
just was my mind. It was just built to get up
in the morning and work all day. And if you can
eat, that's great. But if you miss a couple meals,
well, that's just too bad because there's chores
to do. And it doesn't matter how skinny or small
you are, you still got to throw that bale of
hay, don't you? Yeah, those bales of hay, thank
God they got lighter when I got bigger. But those
first couple I picked up, they were probably
as heavy as I was. Well, and again, what's very
relatable from a Midwestern standpoint is those
high school years. And you had a couple of challenges
in those years that maybe, again, were foundational
for challenges you were going to have to have
in the future and get over. So talk a little
bit about the high school years and kind of how
that built into your character. Yeah, I think
it um, you know growing up on a farm you're eating
a lot of dairy Right. So I call it my dairy fueled
farm physique. Right. So I'm entering high school,
probably the largest kid in the class. You know,
I'm going to be the center of the football team.
And a couple of my friends encouraged me to run
cross country. Right. And thank God they did
in hindsight. But there I was that freshman year
of high school and cross country. You know, everybody's
clapping at me as I come across the finish line
10 minutes after everybody else. And they already
have the shoot already cleaned up. You know,
but. But again, I wasn't going to give up. So
it goes back to kind of that farm work. I say,
if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this.
And I lost the weight and went through, and there
was some challenges there. And I don't know if
that goes into college, too, where we talk about
if you're getting into college is great. I finally
have it all figured out. I love running. I'm
running 10 miles a day or every other day, and
college is coming to an end. And all of a sudden,
there's a huge medical emergency where my lung
decides it's had enough air. Yeah, exactly. So
you went to the University of Wisconsin. Yeah.
Like a good farm boy. But again, there's not
a lot of cash around. So how did you get through
college? Well, obviously, growing up on a farm,
I was on my own. And that was pretty clear from
the beginning. If you want to go to college,
go to college. And so, you know, the whole thing
about being a pilot is kind of coming into view.
How am I going to get money for college? And
so, you know, getting on an old school typewriter,
I guess it was a word processor back in the day,
there were no computers. Tip, tip, tick, tick,
tick, as the fingers went across the keyboard,
you know, I typed up my application for both
the Academy and ROTC. And that was how I was
going to get in. And if I didn't get any one
of those, I probably wasn't going to college.
um and and but got achieved both uh but uh my
guidance counselor sat me down one day and said
i think you're a razi guy you know you got way
too much energy to go to the academy and be kind
of combined in and sit in those rooms all day
and not get outside those walls and so he really
convinced me to take that razi scholarship go
to madison you know do the military thing they
pay for college and then that's that's kind of
what got me there i think today so many people
sort of rule out or don't even think about ROTC
and you went to naval ROTC Again with that idea
that I want to ultimately be an aviator But I
think a lot of people don't even consider it
maybe because they don't know anybody who's gone
through it Talk to us about that experience and
would you today recommend to kids? Hey, look
at the ROTC scholarship program Yeah, I think
I think everybody looks at it from the military
point of view and social media gives you almost
too much Information and not all of it is real
right Top Gun wasn't real There's nothing in
Top Gun that was real -life Navy, but it you
know It's a movie and it's meant to be a movie
and even today the commercials you see It's not
really what the military is, and I don't know
if I would have made it through college without
it, right? Because the first day, you're sitting
there, you're at attention, you're making uniform,
you know, they're putting in uniforms, and you're
marching around, and it instills that... Just
that mental toughness. I think I already had
it, but I never realized that until you get Narazi
and then they have expectations, you just can't
go out and do what you want. You have a GPA expectation
or the scholarship goes away and you're getting
up at five o 'clock in the morning to march on
Tuesdays and you're in uniform and you're walking
around the McLean Center where the Badgers play
football practice and you're learning things,
right? And it instills that. a character, I'll
say, as well. Right. It just it changes who you
are as a person into a more responsible, mature
kind of character. And I'm not sure I would have
matured as quickly if I didn't have that. It
sort of accelerates growing up to be a to be
an adult. I think that's right. One way to look
at it, because if you don't, if you don't mature
quickly, you'll be out and you'll be without
that scholarship and you'll be spending your
days back on the farm. So there's a little incentive
there. But we're back to, and I think in high
school you had an eye problem. Yeah. I want to
mention that because then we're going to talk
about the problem in college. Then we're going
to talk about the problem in the Navy. So let's
start with the eye problem. There's so many problems,
Jim. I appreciate you keeping me in line there.
We were good there so that the first problem
was just the weight really and you know losing
the weight was the problem and then there was
a day on a tennis court and you know if you were
back in the 80s there was no safety equipment
right so we were having a tennis thing for gym
right where we go and learn how to play tennis
and keep score and they had a little ball machine
and we'd hit it back and one day I look up trying
to fill the balls in the ball machine and I hit
it my buddy of mine hit a tennis ball back and
hit me square in the eye No goggles, no protective
equipment. We just didn't think about that stuff
back then. I kind of let it go until I ran into
a neighbor and she saw my eye and it was purple.
Usually your purple isn't a color when you go
for your eye color on any kind of application.
She could see there was blood pooling in my eye
and grabbed me and took me home and ended up
in the hospital. It was a hyphae month. So the
tennis ball didn't pop the eye, but it made this
big packet of blood back on the retina. And so
I had to kind of sit in the hospital. And where
this comes is now I'm scared, right? I'm just
a young, I think, sophomore at the time in high
school. And they have to patch both my eyes.
Because as you know, if you move one eye, the
other eye is going to move. And so if I have
one eye free, I'm still going to look around.
And so it was the first time for seven days.
I had sat there in complete darkness and stillness
and blindness and it, you know, you kind of get
in your head. I really wasn't prepared for for
how hard and difficult that was to get through
that time. Yeah. And again, veteran radio listeners
were talking to this pilot who had this dream
from being a young kid. Well, we all know you
got to be able to see to fly and you got to be
seven days of not being able to look out. you've
got to be thinking, is that dream over with?
Obviously, you overcame that problem. Everything
healed up. We get to college. Life is beautiful.
Everything's wonderful. And then you run into
another medical problem, this time with a lung.
Tell us about it. Yeah, I thought. I definitely
thought the eye might be a distractor as we got
there. But there was a lot of time lapse between
sophomore and high school. But still, it was
on my mind for that first entrance physical,
right? Are they going to find that little scar
tissue in my eye? And back in those days, we
didn't have internet where you could look things
up. So what you knew is what you knew. And so
that was scary. And actually, that also means
that the medical exam couldn't find a digital
record of that problem. That's right. That is
true. Which today has often created bumps in
the road, because they find, oh, when you were
a kid, you had this problem or that problem.
But let's get us to college, because this becomes
even more dramatic. Yeah, the issues definitely
amplify as they move along. But yeah, I never
really happened to mention that. I just forgot
about it, too, when I filled out that application.
I don't know why, I just did. But yeah, in college,
you know, college was going great, and I was
really in shape, things were going well, and
it really wasn't until my senior year that last
year where I kind of crossed that threshold like,
hey, I was a little bit excited. I'll even say
a little bit arrogant, right? The whole world's
in front of me, and I'm going to flight school,
and I get accepted. It was that beautiful Friday
afternoon after classes in the fall and the leaves
were turning and I had my baseball cap, my badger
cap on backwards with my Walkman pinned to my
shorts listening to my Whitesnake cassette and
I go out on a run and I come back and all of
a sudden I'm about a mile from home and it feels
like someone stabbed me in the back. And I actually
looked around to see if there was an assailant,
right? Like it felt that real. And then come
the weekend, like the lung hurt, I'm kind of
moving around and my lungs sloshing around like
there's a little bit of water in my lung. It's
hard to understand what's going on. My breathing
rate elevates quite a bit. I get through Friday
night, I get through Saturday, I go to the emergency
room on Sunday and I'm sitting there breathing
like I'm running a marathon. Go up to the front
desk. They had me fill up paperwork. I'm panting
like a dog, sitting trying to fill this paperwork
out. Hand it back, and I sit in the ER for 45
more minutes, just almost unable to breathe.
Can't take any more. I go up and ask, and they
say it's going to be some time. I said, well,
I can't do this anymore. I go home. So I go home,
lay down, go to bed. Again, panting away, but
laying down kind of helped. Next morning I get
up. It's Monday. So the the Navy University of
Wisconsin medical clinic was open So I just I'm
like let's go in there because I can't go to
class like this. I can I can hardly breathe It's
labor breathing. My chest is heavy I go in they
take an x -ray and before I even know what's
going on I get thrown in a wheelchair into the
back of an ambulance and just sent to the emergency
room at University of Wisconsin Hospital And
so I have no idea what's going on right at this
point I don't even know if I have a thought because
it's all so dramatic They rush me in, throw me
on the table. I mean, it wasn't really nice,
like you see in the movies, like it was tossing
me around. And they put me on my side, pull my
shirt up. Nurse grabs my hand, starts talking
to me, and I see out of my left eye, this doctor
just kind of feeling with my ribs, takes a scalpel
and poof, right between the ribcage. Still got
the scar today, still a little sensitive. Sounds
like a gigantic release of air. I pass out. The
pain is immeasurable, right? Like I never experienced
anything at this time in my life. Wake up, tube
in my chest, doctor comes in, I have a spontaneous
pneumothorax. spontaneous because it happened
on its own pneumothorax I have a collapsed lung
left lung was completely collapsed my heart was
on the right side of my body my esophagus looked
like a question mark I was breathing on a half
and all that pressure was on my heart so it was
a tension pneumothorax where my heart could have
stopped any time because it just can overcome
the pressure of that air escape in my lungs so
that's what I had to to look forward to right
at my senior year right before I was ready to
leave for flight school Yeah, again, this is
one of these medical complications nobody can
anticipate and There's a couple of choices that
you just sort of fold the tent call it a day
Or figure out how you're gonna get through it
with some support You got through it tell us
about getting through it because they kind of
have to glue your lung back up together Yeah,
this was really where I was ready to give up,
probably the first time, because I thought, no
way. A pilot needs eyes. I'm questionable at
that. A pilot needs lungs. I don't think there's
any way. And once the doctor went and did surgery,
he came back, and he told me, put a couple rows
of staples in the hole in the top of my lung.
And what they usually do is they scrape the scar
tissue, or scrape the lungs. it's irritated and
when the lung inflates it would adhere itself
to the wall to kind of keep that lung inflated.
So just to prevent any kind of additional tear
in the lung. Well, because I waited three days
and I kind of went out with friends and there's
smoky bars back then and hailed all that air.
I had an infection. He's like, why didn't have
to scrape? Because there was kind of an infection
in there. Oh, how lucky. So that's great i didn't
think anyone like okay but you took care of it
right until until i think it was that night or
the night after when my that infection kicked
over and also my temperature spiked a hundred
six i'm starting to hallucinate i'm starting
to have a trouble breathing again and i don't
think i'm gonna make it through the night i just
had that feeling. Um, you know call my girlfriend
at the time said hey, can you come with me? You
know, I just I just I just don't think I want
to make it I need I need somebody here and you
know This is the point where she's making excuses
and the relationship ends right there, right?
So it's not just the long it's not just flight
school I was dating this girl for five years
my high school sweetheart and she leaves me sitting
there in a hospital So if there's a culmination
where i'm just ready to give up. It was that
point right there And as I say you get through
this but it's not without a lot of time passing
and I don't know. I'm not sure I'd call it luck,
but fate, because now you medically have to recover,
physically have to recover, mentally have to
recover. And oh, by the way, I got to go see
the flight surgeon. So talk to us about kind
of what's going on during that period in your
head and I guess physically. Yeah. And so I thought
for sure they just pull my papers. And I don't
know if I'm even in the Navy is going to take
me anymore. So before I even got to the flight
surgeon, There were days and days where I couldn't
walk, I couldn't breathe, I couldn't laugh. I
could barely go to the bathroom because that
long, remember all that rib cage just healing
was the rest of that semester was a blur. Um,
but, but you know, like you said, I, okay, I
get the flight school. They let me go, but I'm
like, there's, they'd let me go because that's
why I selected, but there's no way I'm going
to get through that naval aviation medical physical,
right? Like this is over. So I didn't even unpack
my clothes. I just kind of found a hotel and
stayed and went in there. And if you've ever
sweat before, I'll tell you, I was sweating in
front of that doctor. It was a full day of tests.
They looked at everything. I didn't lie about
the lung because I still had the open scar pretty
much. And he looked at me, and he looked at my
record, and there was a pregnant pause that lasted
two years if it lasted 30 seconds, right? And
I'm for sure he'd be like, sorry. Like, I was
just waiting for that. And when he's like, oh,
you're cleared, and he signed that medical clearance
form and handed it to me, otherwise known as
an up -chit for those aviators, boy, I was shocked.
I thought I'd be happy, but I think I was shocked
and stunned in that moment that I'm sitting here
with an up -chit like, I'm going to fly, because
I never thought it was possible. And what year
is this now? This right now is 1996. So I graduated
in 96, so I've been late 96, maybe early 97.
So off the flight school and you do some activities
at Pensacola, is it? And you get through flight
school and then you're off to, I think maybe
it's Puerto Rico? Yeah, so if the quick the quick
is you go to flight school in Pensacola everybody
goes there aviation pre -flight indoctrination
And then you kind of do t34s I selected p3s because
it seemed like the great kind of personality
and lifestyle I wanted even though Top Gun was
all jets go to Corpus Christi, Texas for advanced
you get winged down there Send you to Jacksonville,
Florida, and that's why I learned to fly the
p3 That's a couple months. It's now about beginning
in 1998 and I'm finishing up No more problems.
The rest of your career is just straightforward,
isn't it? That's what I thought. Just like you
said, hey, the past is behind me. I'm in the
Navy. One, I never thought I'd get here after
all of that. Nothing else is going to go wrong,
right? Big, big question mark. And then I select
from my squadron. They're on deployment. They
give me a call. And then I'm like, all right.
So I go down there, meet them in Puerto Rico.
Do a couple flights in Puerto Rico. We go to
Panama with my crew for a month. I am living
the dream. Panama, if you've never been to Panama
City, Panama. Man, it was so much fun flying
out of Rodman Air Force Base there. And then
one day I wake up and we head back to Puerto
Rico just for some little bit of training and
some rest. And we're going to Panama again the
next day. And I'm super excited. And I wake up
with some chest pain. Oh, boy. So I'm like, all
right, it was so bad. I couldn't get out of bed
It was again back to the lung where it felt like
someone stabbed me in the back and I'm like I'm
breathing Okay, I can't be the lung. So I'm like
me go to the dock. I got an hour before pre -flight
So I go to the dock they they take some x -rays
He takes a long time. He comes back. I'm now
late for pre -flight now I'm not worried about
the health anymore. I need to get to the plane.
I just really want to get back in the cockpit
I don't I can't think about another medical problem
and he didn't even tell me what it was. He's
like, sorry you're down And tomorrow you're leaving
on a medevac to Bethesda, Maryland for some tests.
That's all I heard. So I packed a small bag thinking,
oh, I'm going to be back. He didn't say anything
about a long -term stay. He just said some tests.
And so I really didn't take anything. I jumped
in a plane. Flight surgeon came with me. We jumped
to Bethesda. And there's no time wait, right?
We go right to the hospital. And it is different
place after different place, ENT throat. They
took some blood. They took some bone marrow.
And all of a sudden, I'm in front of the oncologist.
I don't know what an oncologist is back in those
days, right? And then he sits down in front of
me and he's like, so the test came back. They
took a little bump out of my neck, part of a
lymph node. And he's like, well, we got the results
back and you have Hodgkin's lymphoma. And I look
around the room a little bit like, are you talking
to me? Like, I'm healthy. I'm running. Like,
what do you mean Hodgkin's lymphoma and what
is that? Yeah, this is, again, one of these like,
OK. When is enough enough? both from a personal
standpoint, but but now it seems that that's
That's a cancer diagnosis. It's got to sound
like okay that ends my career. Yeah Yep, and
it wasn't even understanding the cancer because
it's again. I did didn't really have internet
You can't just go research hot skins and foam
and gives you all the symptoms. You're like Oh,
here's a bunch of pamphlets He gave me and I
only knew what I could read in front of me And
he's like and by the way in ten days you start
chemo And there's a 50 % chance you could be
sterile from chemo. So now I'm thinking, wow,
so now I'm not flying. I'm starting this chemotherapy.
So now I'm starting to, you know, the gravity
is starting to kick in and like, this is big,
right? Like this, I actually didn't start thinking
about flying. I'm just now thinking about, am
I going to make it through this? And one of the
things too, I think most of our veteran radio
listeners having been in the military or have
friends and family in the military understand
that that the military medicine is pretty damn
good, that the doctors and the nurses and the
specialists really kind of have trained. And
some of these folks are the best of the best.
And you received great medical care getting you
through this. But at that point, you're just
sort of thinking, what the heck has my life turned
into? Yeah, you know in a lot of the book I really
kind of anchored at this point because there
was a lot You know, it's not just go to chemo
and go home and you know every every cancer is
different every treatments different and so You
all fall into the same umbrella, but everybody
has different experience even with the same chemo
So in the book I anchor a little bit about kind
of going treatment to treatment and kind of that
I call it the staircase into the basement You
kind of level off and then they step down a chemo
level off and step down and you never quite make
it back up And it's just a continual kind of
body degradation from losing the hair, to losing
the weight, to just no energy. And it was great
care. But my body was taking a physical toll.
And there were times where I didn't think I was
going to make it out. But they told me six months.
Six cycles, so every cycle is two treatments.
So 12 treatments, six months, and I'm done. And
they take a CAT scan to make sure the tumors
are reducing. And an emergency within an emergency
then happens at month six, right? I get to month
six. I actually got some energy thinking, hey,
this is it. I'm going to go in. The doctor is
going to say I'm done. And I can leave. And he
says, well, there's a further reduction in the
tumor. So we're going to have to either do radiation.
Well, first he just says, we're going to do radiation.
And then I fought with the doctor a little bit.
I said, I'm not doing radiation. This is working.
And so then he's like, well, then you're doing
two more cycles of chemo, four more treatments.
And at that point, any kind of hope I had just
just went out the window. Like I'm like, I can't
do four more treatments. I am not going to make
it through this. And so that was kind of an emergency
within an emergency. Yeah. And you know, let's
talk a little bit about who the audience for
this book is, because while we're talking about
it here on Veterans Radio. And certainly a lot
of veterans, even post -service, have a lot of
medical challenges that I think this book would
help them realize, hey, stick with it, you'll
get through it. But when you were writing this,
who did you feel your audience was? So I think
that was the hardest part of writing the book
was one I had to dig up a lot of memories and
thoughts that I buried right and so I had to
go through those emotions and so you know I I
got the chills a lot when I started thinking
about the chemo and and there's a lot more in
there packed in as you read the book and we'll
let the readers kind of maybe experience the
book but you know I had to if I'm going to write
this honestly and raw I have to put myself back
in there and so at first I thought I was just
gonna write it to people who are undergoing cancer
answer going through an issue. But the more I
wrote, it doesn't matter what the challenge is.
The problem is, it's resilience redefined. It's
about embracing discomfort. This whole life of
mine has been almost discomfort. And I just have
to embrace where I'm at, redefine what resilience
is, and just find my way with grit. And it's
just a story of true grit for anybody who needs
a story that really has a lot of grit in it.
It really is a fantastic, easy read. inspirational,
clearly has military applications, but that larger
issue that he's pointed out about just having
grit. So thanks for listening to Veterans Radio
today. It's one of those longer interviews you'd
find on our podcast if you went there, and we're
really appreciative, Dale and I, that we're going
into our 22nd year, I believe it is, on Veterans
Radio. We have a lot to be thankful for, both
family, community, and the support that we give
and get from doing Veterans Radio. So we hope
that at this time of year, you've got things
to be thankful for. Maybe it's because your health
is better than Sean Libby's who's on weekly dialysis
and waiting for a kidney. Maybe it's because
you've overcome with grit and resilience some
of those things that Derek just talked about.
But in any event, we're grateful for you listening.
Go check out veteransradio .org in our podcast.
And until next week when Dale's back, this is
Jim Fossone and you are... Dismissed