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We want to welcome to veterans radio today Anthony
Dwyer You might hear a little of his North Carolina
twang in there. Anthony, welcome to the Veterans
Radio. Hey, thanks for having me, Jim. It's a
pleasure to be here. Well, you spent 21 years
in the Air Force. You got some wisdom to pass
along, but let's start with... How did a nice
kid like you from North Carolina end up in the
Air Force? Yeah, so my senior year in high school,
uh, I don't know roughly six months left of high
school left there. My dad, you know, gave me
the typical dad talk of, you know, you're about
to be a grown man, like it's time to either get
a job, go to college, or get out. And I'd talked
to a neighbor recruiter and he was talking about
being on a boat for six months and then an army
recruiter. Then I was like, you know what? I'm
going to talk to my dad about sort of the quality
of life of the Air Force. He was in for like
four years down in Tampa, MacDill. this way before
I was born and you know it's talked about the
uh the good child halls the TDI and the golf
clubs and stuff like that right and yeah and
uh so I was like yeah I'm gonna do the Air Force
and I was on the delayed enlistment program for
you know about that six months and um yeah July
18th of 2000 there I was on my flight to uh San
Antonio Texas to base the training Well, all
those jokes about the Air Force Life, a lot of
them are true. So, as I said, you're in for 21
years, got out as a tech sergeant in E6, now
living in New Mexico. But give us a thumbnail
of what your service was about, because I'm not
sure we've ever had a special operations aviation
guy on Veterans Radio and a lot of the Army pukes
don't have any idea what you guys did. Yeah,
so I was a Special Missions Aviator and I flew
in the, started out flying on the, there in 2010,
I was about midway through my career, I started
flying, but yeah, the 16th Special Operations
Squadron on the AC -130 gunship, the H -Model
Spectre gunship, you know, and the mission of
that, the gunship as a whole was to provide that
close air support for your unconventional forces.
You know, I like to call them super ninjas, you
know, give them that close air support. And then
also flew on the HA -60G Pave Hawk there for
about four or five years out at Moody Air Force
Base as a, you know, the 41st Rescue Squadron
as a smotton. What a special mission JV8er is
is, you know, back in 2012, 2013 that the Air
Force combined the Aero Gunner, the loadmaster
and the flight engineer career field made a really
like a Swiss Army knife in the sky if you think
about it that way, sort of a jack of all trades
and all that. But yeah, it was a pleasure and
honor to fly and fight beside the best men and
women in Air Force, you know. Well, we joke about
it a little bit to the army guys in particular
about the Air Force But they sure glad to have
you for that close air support, weren't they?
Yeah, yeah, you know a lot you know a lot of
times I worked with the being overhead in the
Rangers and the green braze stuff like that and
There were some nights, you know not when we
didn't even shoot, you know We're just our noise
signature would would keep the enemy at bay if
you will and those guys could get some you know
a few hours of shutout and stuff like that and
and tell us where your Tours took you in terms
of overseas missions Yeah, I went to a bathroom
multiple times You know I think in the book I
called the bargain retreat routine there and
as a flyer, you know It's all about your flight
hours So you can basically get 335 hours and
90 days and if you hit that or see that I have
to set you down, you know for a little bit and
So we managed that and then basically three months
there than three months back was the the ops
tempo there for for bathroom and then 20 2014
-2015 the ISIS you know threat happened and basically
we went to at that point Kuwait and then flew
over you know Iraq and Syria and Basically was
type 3 like controlled air support We have like
a JTAC at that time anyway with a with like a
general on it You know a talk or whatnot and
basically creating you'd engage on the on the
ISIS enemy and stuff like that and then in rescue
I went to East Africa would say that twice there
These are not Guess what I would call normal
missions. Were they Not no definitely not you
know, there's I tell people there's really two
types of they seem with very good ship missions
where They're so back to even 2011 believe it
or not We had pagers man and like they would
you know pages doesn't like an alert type thing
And it would either one let you know you had
a troops in contact So you had to launch within
like things like 15 to 30 minutes be off the
ground and then Do you have the other ones which
would basically like some like there's like direct
action stuff going on the ground like You know
it could have seals kicking doors down green
braids doing fid type stuff And yeah, so there's
basically that that two types of missions and
and one thing I always loved about But I should
have not shouldn't you know these are all jobs
really don't have to do but the end of the day
like you know There'd be ticks you know where
those guys been shot at all day and we would
get like You know miles away and start picking
the enemy up or our sensors and they just run
like bees You know here and I heard enough for
fans of freedom there and they knew at that point
You know it's it's over for them. So it was a
to be that relevant You know best sense of relevance,
I guess, you know as far as a gunship guys That
was my whole why all those years and you know
making sure those guys got home to their family
that that was everything to me Yeah, that's back
that close your support and you know in both
of those instances whether it's Afghanistan Africa
Iraq The Air Force has air superiority you want
to talk about that a little bit Yeah, yeah as
far as like the air -to -air stuff, you know
that no one's really gonna test us at least not
in that environment You know even in near -peer
I'd argue that you know they wouldn't even stand
a smidge of a chance with us You know what I
mean? And as far as the the close air support,
there's you know, there's a few kings there There's
the AC 130 gunship within the A -10 and then
sometimes even the Apache, you know Well, all
that combat experience, so while you're up in
the air, you're not down on the ground. It still
has an impact on the airmen who's supplying that
support and knowing what's going on in the ground.
How did you internalize that situation? Yeah,
so, you know, I always say it's not what you
do in flying a life that haunches what you don't
do, you know, and I, you know, on the, I was
on a Kassavak mission when I was on rescue helicopters
in East Africa there. I think it was 8th June
of 2018. And, you know, we got to see the best
side of combat search and rescue that day where
we, you know, got to save five lives and then
one one eagle one american we got back on the
operating table we passed away so so that one
sticks with you you know and um i'd be lying
if i didn't say i if i wasn't still dealing with
that but uh i was able to get a you know through
you so come like a prolonged exposure therapy
with a psychiatrist and and part of that what
that means really is you're getting comfortable
being uncomfortable telling your story so like
you're doing we're doing right here and uh you
write that story out over and over and over and
which really led to the book, you know, because
she's like, you should tell your story. Someone
told me that a hundred times and I never did.
But once I got out and the dust settles, I was
like, you know, maybe someone could get help
if they read this. And to me, that's what it
was all about, just paying it forward. And also
to show the rest of America, this is what goes
on when you're sleeping. Well, and I think that's
part of it is there's all kinds of ways to kind
of get yourself through this. And not everything
works for everybody. Talk a little bit about,
you know, sort of, and I'm only asking you to
do this not because I'm, you know, want to deal
in tragedy here, but I want to deal in reality.
And there'll be a lot of family members and veterans
listening in on Veterans Radio who don't maybe
understand the lows and where you were at and
then how... it takes a few attempts to get out,
right? I mean, you don't transition through this
in a weekend. So tell us about the journey. Yeah,
so I went back to gunships for my racing 130s
for my last two years here at Canada Air Force
Base, and I wanted to deploy on my last, or my
20 year mark was with July 18th of 2020, that
was my 20 year mark, and went to Iraq there.
And I remember it was so slow, and we didn't
really shoot at all for those 90 days at that
point. And I just remember thinking, I could
see the end of it being near of my career. I'm
at 20 years. That sense of purpose, that sense
of my identity, I feel like it was gone. I got
back and I hit the retirement button in that
whole year time frame. I really developed a really
bad drinking problem, to be honest with you.
I started as a weekend drinking habit, turned
into at least a pint a night. So my wife basically
gave me the ultimatum of, hey, it's either the
bottle or me and your daughter. And thank God,
very thankful that God led me to choose my family
at that point. So she's like you need to get
help and some other people sort of noticed as
well and I went and got help and that's when
I saw the psychiatrist and started that journey
and then what would happen you know every time
I wanted to To drink, you know, I pick up a pen
and I'd write something down, you know and wake
up in the morning and try to make this sense
of this sort of Charlotte's word, you know, web
of emotional words and just make sense of two
decades of word, you know all those feelings
So it is therapeutic in the way if you just bleed
it on the page Get it out because a lot of people
have the similar struggle that sells, you know
sense of identity a sense of relevance, you know
when that's gone And a lot of guys face that
same problem and the family says it's us or them
again not maybe a switch you can flip like a
light and you decide right away you're going
to transition, you're going to stop doing whatever
the addictive or detrimental activity is. When
she gave you the ultimatum, did it take you a
while to say I'm there or was it a lightning
bolt and you were able to flip that switch? Yeah,
there was a couple of times right you know I
felt the wagon if you will but you know just
a few handful of times and then You know I'd
realized that there was a spiritual side to this
as well You know and I prayed and prayed and
prayed you know and I had a very you know most
important conversation I ever had is the one
I had with Jesus and myself that night as the
way I look at it and that's when I truly got
the You know the courage and that just the willpower
just to put that bottle down and to So face my
you know face my demons head on you know There's
a lot of folks who talk about the moral injury
that veterans in combat experience as they think
about who am I taking out? Why did the guy next
to me have this accident or this get in the way
of the bullet and I was just nearby or the grenade
or whatever it might be? So there is this moral
component to the injury and that's sort of the
spiritual aspect that you're talking about 100
% yeah that I'm glad you actually brought that
up because in the book I talk about like you
know still my unanswered question those days
like Why does you know that god let bad things
happen to good people and I I'm still searching
for that answer You know I have some ideas what
it would it maybe but uh? Yeah, I asked that
question in the book and that was a lot of a
lot of dealing with that as well You know it's
just talking to God constantly trying to figure
that part of life out, you know So we're talking
to Anthony Dwyer. He's a Air Force veteran, did
his 20 years was with special operations, aviation,
close air, close air support. But one of the
things he probably never thought he'd put on
his resume when he was growing up in the Appalachian
mountains of North Carolina is author. So You
have out now a memoir called Moon Child, A Warrior's
Recting with War, Addiction and Purpose. You've
kind of mentioned, you know, hey, I started writing
stuff to sort of bleed on the page as therapy.
Talk a little bit, you know, writing a book's
not easy. Putting yourself out there is not easy.
Tell us a little bit about that aspect of the
journey. Yeah, my friends always joke with me
that, you know, North Carolina education, you
know, Appalachia. I still probably reading right
on a fifth grade level somehow I have a book
but yeah so I'm surprised as you are about that
but uh yeah um so basically um you know I when
I started writing all these things together and
get you know going back a little bit so there's
a point in Air Force where you're applying for
you like a DD 214 right and um you walk out this
person that was type flight this office you know
and and often in that office when you when you
leave You look back at it, there's no door handle
on the other side of that door. So it was sort
of symbolic. Like, man, I can leave, but I can
never really get back into this machine that
keeps going. And so that was sort of, I was dealing
with that as well. And like I said, every time
that these thoughts would come in my mind, these
bad thoughts, these sad thoughts, whatever the
case was, I would write them down. Whether it's
like Eminem with a napkin next to my nightstand,
something like that, or whatever I had. And then
finally, I got the courage to reach out to an
editor. She's actually a war journalist Holly
McKay and through LinkedIn and then as soon as
I did that she responded like right away I remember
I was in Walmart and she responded and I'm texting
and we set up a phone call and she's like, yeah,
she's like, you know, I'll do the editing for
you and I Really she did a really good job pulling
those words out of me and give my words Just
painting that picture with my words and give
my words teeth is what I like to say and she
in turn recommended a publisher Robbie Grayson
that did like the hardware of the book if you
will and you know between That timeframe, they
say, no, I have a book, you know. Well, they
say everybody's got a story and I think that's
probably true. Some are forged into fire, which
yours certainly is. And I think that the title
of this is really interesting because it's reckoning
with war, which we, you know, kind of maybe can
all understand addiction. Maybe we can all understand
how that was about and purpose. That's an interesting
ad. Talk about why finding a new purpose after
leaving the military, which was so clearly the
purpose for 20 years. Tell us about that battle.
Yes. And the purpose and the, you know, the title
even itself like moon child, you know, a lot
of people ask me about that. And to me, the moon's
really symbolic, you know, you know, for example,
flying on the AC 130, it was often my lighthouse,
you know, and it would highlight the terrain
with MVG and stuff like that. And And there's
these moments when everything is going against
you, right? And it could be the weather, the
system, the emergency procedures, all the communications,
everything. And I realized that that's the day
where you don't get to fall, you get to rise.
And to me, that moon burns the brightest on the
darkest nights. And that's when you get to really
find a lot out about yourself. So the moon's
always meant that symbolically a lot to me. And
expand on this though in terms of that purpose
you had to go find Yeah, so, you know, like I
said when you leave, you know that that sense
of purpose all that that hits you like a like
a Like a tidal wave, you know, your sense of
identity your relevance is gone You know, like
I'm not not gonna be able to find more and you
know Make sure these guys get home with their
family on the gunship and stuff like that and
so I was okay Well, you know right now I'm finding
the legacy to be to find those you know those
moments in the calm with the family and the norm
things of life you know that's to me that's legacy
now that's that's my new purse being the best
dad I could be you know husband I could be best
author I could be best best friend I could be
to someone you know it's easy to say that out
loud and it makes sense when you say it out loud
but it's harder to live it isn't it really is
yeah you know it's you know at the end of the
day I can either pick up my phone when someone
calls or I can't you know and when these you
know it's happened before you know I've actually
Recently talked to golf legend force had to do
that, but uh, he's a better place for it now
You know so it's it's definitely hits you You
know those moments happen, you know paying it
forward and you know God will definitely give
you that chance Well and part of this is that
veterans ethos where hey, I had your back over
there I'm gonna have your back over here and
But it does take reaching out it does take answering
the phone doesn't it? 100 % yeah, and I always
tell people like you know as far as veterans
go like we know each other really well right
Especially the ones we served with and you know,
there's a difference saying hey, how's it going
man? Or like hey, how are you doing really man?
Cuz we know each other's emotions. We know the
looks on our faces. What you know, you know each
other that much And usually when you're writing
a book of some sort you've got an audience in
mind When you were writing moon child a warrior's
wrecking with the war addiction and purpose and
maybe your editor say, hey, you got to get a
little more focused on the audience. What audience
were you writing to? Really, it was anybody that's
deserved, you know, or anybody that's had some
sort of addiction problem. Those two main pools
of people, you know, and a lot of these these
uncommon jobs, you know, it could be a policeman
or firefighter, you know, these very uncommon
jobs were sometimes unfortunately, you know,
You don't have to do these jobs, but you see
the worst thing that could happen to someone.
You know, these kind of memoirs, Anthony, I also
think help family members and friends who maybe
can't be in the shoes of the veteran, didn't
see what the veteran has and doesn't understand
what that person, guy or gal may be going through.
It sort of helps to read your memoir and be able
to recognize some of that in somebody else you
might know. And maybe you've heard that from
people. Yeah, yeah, you definitely see some common
struggles between like you know like paramedics
and you know definitely you know cops and firefighters
even jobs like that and Where they've had to
you know face that trauma head on you know and
I will say that you so come was was really good
as far as like you know one of the soft truths
is what we call it is you know humans are more
important than hardware and I mean it those guys
they live by that you know and basically they
invented the the preservation of the force and
family, where you get a physical therapist, you
get a trainer, and you get a psychologist in
your squadron oftenly. Again, I think the US
military's gotten much better over time with
this, and particularly after the 20 years of
Afghanistan recognizing, hey, we got to help
on the mental health side of things. And you
probably saw that change over time. Oh, yeah,
and I remember, you know, believe it or not,
Abram or Craven came to the talk, the talk one
night and basically it's when the H -Model gunship
was going away and he said, hey, he's like, listen
guys, like, um, we're slowing down the ops tempo.
It's not going to be what we call one -to -one
dwell time. It was, you know, sort of like 90
days there, 90 days back. It would be like 90
days there, then like six months off, you know.
So, slowed it down and that's when he started
seeing a lot of these programs getting, you know,
implemented and stuff like that. So, uh, What's
what's next for the kid from North Carolina now
living in New Mexico? What you're gonna write
another book. What's the next step big guy? Yeah,
yeah, I'm actually in the process of writing
one. It's um It's basically tying the lessons
learned from you know fishing believe it or not
Fireflies like back home. We have a lot of like,
you know lightning bugs and then uh, you know
fishing and flying, you know, so all those three
lessons those three areas of lessons and then
time them into one and try to be as poetic as
I can with it, I guess. And also secondly, I'm
inventing an app where basically you speak into
this app and with AI -type companion stuff, like
it's going to soft edit what the veteran or first
responder reads into it. And then they would
have the option to either get it edited and published
for either, if not free, then very cheap costs.
put it to the state and we'll see if this nonprofit
gets stood up. Well, that's great. Again, it's
purpose along with the family, beyond the family,
gives you additional purpose. We've been talking
to Anthony Dwyer, who wrote Moon Child, the Roots
and Wings of the United States Air Force Combat
Special Missions Aviator. You can get that book
just about anywhere. Make a great read for folks
and gift for folks. Anthony, on the way out here,
any final word for your fellow veterans? Yeah,
I'd say just keep going. Remember, Henry Ford
said that an aircraft takes off against the wind,
not with it. So you're going to lift off, you
know? Excellent. I want to thank you for taking
time to talk with Veterans Radio today, Anthony.
Thank you sir. It's a pleasure to be here and
honor Jim. And I want to thank everybody for
listening to Veterans Radio today. I am Jim Fossone.
It's been a pleasure to be your host. I'm a Veterans
Disability Lawyer at Legal Help for Veterans
and you can reach us at 800 -6934800 or legalhelpforveterans
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