This is Veterans Radio. This is Veterans Radio.
Good day. I'm Jim Fossone. I'm the Officer of
the Deck today here on Veterans Radio and thanks
for joining us. We've got some interesting stories
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Help for Veterans fights for veterans' disability
rights all across the nation. You can reach them
at 800 -693 -4800 or on the web at legalhelpforveterans
.com. We want to welcome to Veterans Radio, a
Navy veteran who's got an interesting story to
tell, Richard Sherman. Welcome to Veterans Radio.
Jim, thanks for having me on board. It's a pleasure
to be with you. Now, Richard and I met each other
down in the Estero, Florida area. Today, I'm
up north again, where it's 45 degrees. And he
just let me know it's 82 degrees where he's at.
So he's smarter than the average bearer. That's
what I want to start with. But we learn from
experience, Jim. We learn from experience. So
how did how did you end up in the Navy? Let's
start there. Sure. You know, I like most. and
those, most of the families who served, there's
those who served before you, right? So my dad
was a Korean War Navy veteran, was a machinist
mate. His brother was a radio man in World War
II. He was a bit older than he was. My godfather
on my mom's side, my uncle on my mom's side was
aboard the John F. Kennedy, work in the decks
of the JFK in the Vietnam era. And so, you know,
the military experience was always part of our
Thanksgiving and holiday conversations and a
lot of teasing and the like. So for my dad, the
Navy was extraordinarily formative for him. He
was one of those rough and tumble kids growing
up, living on the streets. His parents during
the Second World War both worked. And so one
worked night work, the other worked day work.
And so he spent a lot of time on the street until
finally someone said, you better get this straightened
out. And he joined the Navy. And I mean, to the
day he died, my dad's drawers were what we call
two -blocked. I mean, his t -shirts and underwear
and his socks were folded and perfectly kept.
And it was really important to my dad. And so
I saw that as a young boy and as a young man.
And going to college, two of my roommates were
ROTC, one in the Air Force, one Army ROTC. And
that led me to my senior year of college, where
I signed papers to go to officer candidate school
in the Navy. And that's where we get started.
Well, it's 1989. You go into the Navy and you
stay in various capacities until 1997. Most of
that time as a Navy intelligence officer. That's
not an oxymoron. Tell us a little bit about that.
Well, you know, it was a wonderful experience.
I enjoyed the Navy greatly. Probably would have
stayed active duty for much, much longer, except
that uh that shit was not approved by the commander
in chief my my future wife um so that's just
a joke but that's how that works yeah yeah well
her father was a two -star admiral so she spent
a lot of time um you know in that experience
and i had uh varied interests as well uh but
the navy intelligence field i was I mean, it's
just a wonderful opportunity for me personally.
I was an international relations and economics
major in college, always interested in how states
and nations work, history, the history of war,
the history of peace, the history of diplomacy.
And for me, I think the field of intelligence
is extraordinarily interesting in the sense that
the Navy experience, I can't speak to the Army
or the Air Force, but we get exposure to all
the different communities, right, we get the
surface fleet, we get the subs, we get the aviation,
I was at the aviation squadron, I was with the
Marines, I was at the Pentagon, you know, you
get these special centers of intelligence that
you get an opportunity. So as a career, you know,
there was lots more opportunity ahead that seemed
particularly interesting. And, you know, several
of my OCS classmates and Intel school classmates
continued on when I returned to the civilian
world. But it is exceedingly interesting, right?
You get spec ops experience, you get surface,
you get subs, you get... It's really cool because
you get exposure to the breadth of what the Navy
does and you also have a perspective on what's
happening and... You know, I think, you know,
because of this book, which you're talking about,
you know, I'm very acutely aware of those particularly
in World War One and World War Two that had really
no idea where they fit in into the overall piece
of the engagement or the battle. Whereas in the
intelligence field, for me anyway, it was very
helpful to understand the breadth and the scope
of what we were trying to accomplish. One of
the things I'm hearing is that it was intellectually
challenging and and that it was because of that
scope, you kind of had to be well -rounded. And
you had to be curious. Am I getting some of these
traits right? Yeah, I think that's right, Jim.
I think lots of different skill sets goes into
every MOS, right? I think at the core, if there's
one thing that's carried with me, and we'll talk
about my life afterwards, is I'm very analytical.
You have to analyze information. And I will tell
the story that As a 22 year old, I'm floating
in the Persian Gulf and it's desert shield. I
have my ensign bars on and I'm just trying to
figure out where the head is and what exactly
a classic way is. I'm just trying to stay out
of the way. I had a 04 that gave me some opportunity
to do briefings and I was called down to the
stateroom of the SEAL team commander and I walked
in the room and they're dressing in uh in wetsuits
and I said sir yes you know uh and you know there's
knives out there's weapons out uh and this is
desert shield not desert storm and uh they say
to me I said I said well you know what's up how
can I help and they said well we're going swimming
tonight I said oh okay I said and they asked
me some specific questions and then like this
the thing you know kind of hit me in my head
it's it really became real at that very real
at that stage because it's important to know
what you know. And it's important to know what
you don't know what you're opining about what
your assessment is versus what is fact. And that
became very apparent to me, because when you
when you mix opinion with fact, they end up with
body bags, right? I mean, it was like a dong
went off in my head, like, you know, wake up.
And the really interesting thing about it was,
after we spoke, they wanted to access to the
information that I had. shared with them so that
they could read the intelligence reports themselves
and also make their own conclusions. And that
level of professionalism very early on in my
Navy officer career was very formative for me.
So yeah, I think analytical is very important
and also being able to understand what you know
and what you assess or think is going to happen.
Those are very different things, I think, if
I may. step aside, you know, in our modern society,
there's a lot of opinion that we read online
or that we hear on the news or whatever. That's
purely opinion or assessment of fact. And those
things are very, very different. And I learned
that at 22. Well, and there's nothing lower on
a ship than Ensign, who, as you say, I'm just
trying to stay out of the way. I just don't want
to create a problem. So I've been there, done
that. This is I want to take these traits and
you add an analytical to it because it's going
to tie into the book that you, the career that
you chose and the book that we're going to talk
about, Never Home. But tell us about that transition.
Tell us, okay, the commander in chief has said
you're not re -upping in the Navy no matter what
my admiral dad says. You better come home and
do something, Richard. So what does Richard Sherman
come home and do? whatever she tells me to do.
So in January I'll celebrate 30 years and so
far that ability to be obedient and follow orders
has worked out okay. Still an incident in that
ranking. And on a performance improvement plan
for the last 30 years, I'm still doing extra
military instruction. But no, but on a serious
note, I was in the intelligence field, and I
loved that. But I started with an international
relations economics background. So while I was
in a reservist at the Pentagon, I got my MBA
from Georgetown and then worked on Wall Street
for about 16 years as an analyst. As an analyst,
right? Analyzing numbers and earnings per share
and whether management can execute what they
say they can execute. And so I did that for 15,
16 years. And during that time, I was working
a lot of hours, I think. at least once or twice
I worked 30 consecutive hours. So it was a lot
of hours and I was getting of a certain age that
I'm starting to consider other opportunities.
And my wife had purchased me a one -on -one lesson
with a photographer. Now I've always been interested
in photography. It really goes back to the Gulf
War. When I left for the Gulf War again, you
know. untouched ensign bars on my followers.
I went home to see my folks and say goodbye and
I headed out and I said to my dad, I had a quiet
moment with him. I said, dad, any advice? And
he gave me no advice. What he gave me was his
digital SLR camera that he had done all of our
family photos with, a Minolta film camera. And
I took it on board and fortunately, as an officer
on board a helicopter carrier, I had a little
bit of space I could stuff it on. And we did
a missile shoot off the coast of the US, off
the coast of North Carolina, as part of the preparations
for heading over into the Far East. or the middle
east and uh i remember we did a missile shoot
and i had the camera up and i was leaning on
i wasn't on duty at the time i had my camera
lined up it's all manual up against a superstructure
and i have you know fast film in it and i have
f4 all this other Anyway, making the camera as
fast as possible and have the shutter pressed
halfway down just waiting for it to shoot. Because
I figured I'll jump like hell. And it's exactly
what happened. It shot out and jumped like hell.
Geez, I probably can send this to you, Jim. But
I have a wonderfully exposed film image when
I came home eight months later and then waited
two weeks of a missile leaving a tube about 20
yards, 30 yards out with a beautiful plume of
smoke perfectly clear. And at that stage, I learned
that what the camera sees can see and can't see
is very different than what we see with our own
eyes. And so while I'm working a Wall Street
job, you know, hours are long, my wife gets me
as a president, a time with a professional photographer
to do some lessons. And, you know, he said, sat
down with me, and he said, you know, you could
do this professionally, if you want it. I'm working
a Wall Street job, I'm working, that's the last
thing from my mind. You know, a couple years
later, I'm worn out. Some things have gone well,
some things haven't gone well, and I'm thinking
to myself, do I really want to do this? And yeah,
so at that stage made the decision. My wife and
I don't have children, and she has been a very
successful career. And she had the health care
cover for that. And I said, you know, how many
times would a guy in the mid 40s have an opportunity
to do something that they're really passionate
about? And that was photography. And so I started
this photography business. I started to study
at the New York Institute of Photography. I studied
photography and videography. worked with hired
special photographers who are instructors now
to look at my work and then work underneath them.
You know give them images and they would give
me feedback to try to accelerate my learning
curve. And yeah so spent a couple years kind
of learning photography and getting better at
the craft. And so Richard is a professional photographer
now. and that's the journey, how we got there.
Give folks your website and then I wanna talk
about the book. Okay, I have two websites, one
for the book, which you can talk about later,
but it's richardshermanphotography .com. It's
just very simple, richardshermanphotography .com.
As a former Navy guy, I do a lot of nautical
stuff. I do sailing races sometimes in that.
shooting out on a helicopter. And sometimes I'm
just on a chase boat. Sometimes I'm just in shore
shooting a lot of boats in shore, but I do a
lot of nautical stuff and nature stuff. And one
of my things that I'm most proud of is there's
more than three dozen VA medical facilities that
have purchased my artwork and installed it in
their facilities. And those of us who have been
to VA facilities know that a VA is different
than a hospital because our veterans, particularly
veterans of a certain age, will spend many hours
there. They'll go to the barbershop, or they'll
get a cup of coffee, or they'll go to the little
candy store, a little store there, they'll pick
up a t -shirt, and they'll spend some hours telling,
you know, sea stories with their fellow veterans
that are there. So to think that maybe my images
could be a conversation starter for one of them
means a lot to me. It really does. No, that's
great. Somewhere along the line, and I've heard
the story, but I'm gonna let you tell it, you
thought I'm going to go photograph American cemeteries
overseas, which resulted in becoming the book
Never Home, remembering the military heroes who
never returned, which is not only photographs,
but stories. Tell us about the journey to get
that up and out. Sure. Yeah, I, you know, We
talked about sort of the military background,
you know, as veterans, we think about those who
went before us. We never can ever really repay
them. And from our very first days in boot camp
or officer candid school, we're aware of the
sacrifices and their valor. And then even now,
as we're speaking now, I think for veterans are
listening now, we're also very mindful that there
are people on ships at sea in the air or in places
even more dangerous right now as we're enjoying.
40 degree rainy day in Detroit or an 82 great
Sunday day here in Estero, Florida. But we're
very aware of that. Right. So it was never far
from my mind, but really kind of coalesced around
I'm working a financial services job and I go
to Vancouver, Canada in 2007 and I need a cab
driver. And I, as you know, Jim, from hearing
me speak before, I like to talk to cab drivers
are usually immigrants from somewhere that make
their way to the West. whether it's the US or
in this case, Canada. And I started to chat with
the cab driver turned out it was a very transformative
conversation because he was a World War II vet
for the Ukrainian army. So he's a young man at
the time fighting for the Russian Red Army with,
you know, against the Nazis in front of him,
one of them, which was devastating. And then
you know, it was uncertain whether that was more
dangerous minute to minute than fighting for
the Russian Red Army, which were, they were brutalized,
as he explained to me, you know, not every day,
but certainly there was instances of great brutality
and deprivation that the Russians imposed upon
their allies, the Ukrainians, we were much more
aware of that cultural and ethnic difference
today than we, at least than I was in 2007. And
so uh speaking with him you know in 20 25 minute
cab drive between the airport and the hotel he
shared some of his experiences a young man in
his teens uh being called into combat and and
his experience and but you know a couple things
came out of it uh the two probably most meaningful
stories came out of it it was that you know they
were suffering a great deal the ukrainian you
know his friends and mates were were dying regularly
um and so it was there wasn't much hope for sure
and then you know, he explained to me that out
of the blue one day, these young men started
to appear with short haircuts and wealth trained
and with, you know, weapons and the like, and
they started to fight next to them. And they
were the American troops. Now, there's very,
very little written about American experience
in the Eastern Front. very, very little. And
so I've had an opportunity to meet with somebody
recently, a World War Two vet that was had that
experience working on the Eastern Front, but
very little is known about that. But he explained
to me at that moment, things started to change
for them. You know, they had had had a chance,
they had hope. Whereas before it was, it was
a rather dour outlook for them. And he couldn't
understand this man's in his 80s at the time,
driving the cab and saying, why would you boys
leave the safety of your own home, which is,
of course, thousands of miles away, an ocean
away, a continent away, why would you come and
fight in our land with us when we didn't even
want to be there fighting? And it was a very
emotional conversation that we had. And, you
know, that was obviously very impactful to me,
right? Because he was here in front of me, sharing
the story because of the sacrifices of others
that I would never meet. And so against that,
with that story, he shared a second story against
the backdrop of war and deprivation and horror.
And we know what that's like. The American troops
had food every day. They had rations every day.
And again, this was baffling to him in his 80s,
as I'm sure as it was as a teenager. He explained
they would be fed only every four or five days.
five days by the Russian Red Army. They'd have
a bowl of something every four to five days.
Let's call it porridge. I don't know. And yet
here the American troops, thousands of miles
from home, had their rations. And humanity emerged.
The American troops, he explained, would open
their rations and share what they had with him
and his Ukrainian colleagues. A half of a chocolate
bar, a cigarette. It was, you know, I mean, I
get emotional when I realize, you know, against
this horror and darkness of war, compassion and
brotherhood emerges. And that really had an influence
on me. I got out of the cab and I went to get
my luggage out of the trunk and I turned around
and there he was. And with his hand extended,
he said, I want to say thank you to America.
Humbling, right? You know, me, I'm no one. To
shake his hand and accept that. Well, that set
off 10 years of telling the story and laying
in bed at night thinking about the personal experience
of sacrifice and war, not that the third army
moved south under Patton. But the personal story
of leaving a safe home to go fight in a foreign
land and then ultimately dying in a foreign land
and what happens then? Right, right, right. And
so for me, it became, you know, disturbing that
I could never go and thank them. And 2017, I
started to work with Mary Virginia Swanson, who
is a very well known photography book consultant.
She's been an incredible assistant to me, but
she gave me a real jolt of energy when we talked
about this because Mary Virginia is well known
and she worked for Ansel Adams as you heard me
say before when she was a younger woman and so
that she would lend her name to this project
that she would stand behind this project meant
a lot to me and so we formulated this plan and
I worked with the American Battle Monuments Commission
that manages and maintains 26 overseas military
cemeteries of which 23 pertained to World War
I and World War II, and they were extremely supportive,
and it was just a wonderful organization to work
with. And from that, I launched into six years
of travel, four years of travel, two years that
were lost or gained to COVID, lost in the sense
I couldn't travel, but it allowed me to expand
the biographical section in the middle of the
book, the middle chapter of the book. And this
is a part I think a lot of people won't, you
know, haven't thought about, maybe haven't read,
haven't seen the history. there are 26 overseas
cemeteries, and it's what, 100 ,000 plus men
primarily who never returned home? I use the
term memorialized, but there's over 200 ,000
of those that are memorialized from World War
I and World War II. And the reason I use memorialized
is for those of us who served in the Navy or
in the Marine Corps or in the Army Air Services,
many of them Have never and will never be recovered
lost forever. So just rough numbers World War
two is around 93 ,000 that are buried overseas
And there's about 79 ,000 that are listed on
the walls of the missing almost a one -for -one
ratio and these cemeteries Who maintains them
who owns them who? Who honors these men who never
returned home? So the American Battle Monuments
Commission, which in 2023 celebrated its 100th
anniversary, manages all of these cemeteries.
It's an incredible organization of the US government.
They have about 470, 480 employees, of which
I think around 400 are foreign nationals. And
so these cemeteries technically belong to the
countries where they're built. But they are provided
to our nation free of charge in a perpetual lease
by the host nations. So they're managed and maintained
by the ABMC, which includes mostly foreign nationals
that wash the headstones, keep the grass meticulously
trimmed. And I always say this, as you know,
Jim, I challenge you, go find a cigarette butt
in one of them. You'll never find one. Go find
a piece of plastic on the ground. You'll never
find one. They maintain meticulous care, as they
should, as they rightly should, of these final
resting places. And I think most of us have been
at national cemeteries in our states that the
VA maintains, where we've stopped by or seen
film of Arlington National Cemetery. And I think
we all walk away amazed at how well kept they
are. but how respectful it is and how much you
walk away feeling like this is sacred ground
and is treated as sacred ground. And in looking
at the photos in the book Never Home, you get
that same feeling that this is not only well
maintained, but really sacred ground. And as
you were going around and capturing these photographs
and capturing these stories, tell me what you
walked away with. Well, certainly it's a change
of your life for sure. So when I speak to folks
about going, oh, I'm going to go to Normandy
next year or I'm going to Florence or wherever,
I always say caveat emptor. When you walk in
the cemetery, you will be changed. And by the
time you walk out, you will feel very differently
about this. I feel like in Europe, the World
Wars are much more recent than they are in the
United States. And maybe that's due to geography.
But I'll give you an example. My first cemetery
I went to was a World War Cemetery, the Somme,
up north of Paris on Memorial Day in 2018. I
got there early. I had press credentials, went
in, start photographing, getting ready. And then
there's a little town up on the hill. And when
the family was getting ready to get, all these
French folks, 100 years. after the end of World
War I, in their finest, right? Women in dresses,
men in suits comes, like the whole town just
kind of empties and comes down to the cemetery,
right? So these are very sacred grounds for sure.
And our allies keep meticulously care of them.
I think what's changed is that it's more recent
for me now, right? Sometimes it's because...
You know, I talked to my uncle, my dad's brother,
but, you know, I was a little kid at the time.
And it changed their lives in Europe without
that American presence. But I want to expand
this a little bit, because I think again, maybe
people go, yeah, there are those over in Europe,
but kind of surprised to find out that they're
in the Philippines and they're elsewhere around
the world. Give us some of those other locations
that that probably aren't top of mind. Yeah,
so it took me six years and eight trips to go
to three continents. Most of them, of course,
are in Europe, France, Belgium. General Patton's
laid to rest in Luxembourg, the Netherlands,
which is incidentally the second most visited
cemetery behind, of course, Normandy. And as
I say, it really has nothing really to do with
the Americans, the Dutch. Robert Edsel has written
a book about this, a tremendous passion for keeping
the memories of those who sacrificed so much
alive and all the headstones are adopted there
by the Dutch families. Italy, there are two in
Italy. I think I mentioned Belgium already. England,
of course, there's World War I and World War
II cemetery in England where those who were in
the sea services or those who died in training
accidents are rich. And then in North Africa,
the famed standoff between the Desert Fox and
Patent in the desert. And it's one of the four
cemeteries in North Africa where there are again
more on the walls of the missing from World War
II than there are actually buried there because
of the amphibious operations which we have just
beginning to learn as well as that hostile desert
environment where bodies are lost and never to
be recovered. So North Africa and then of course
Manila is The largest in terms of those who are
memorialized. I mean it vastly is greater than
Then Normandy there are over 17 ,000 individuals
headstones that are there over 17 ,000 so almost
twice as many as Normandy and then a daunting
number of you know, over 36 ,000 on the walls
of the missing. Now, Manila covers the entirety
of the war as opposed to eight weeks or a 12
week or four month campaign. It covers from 41
to at a big geography, right? You know, I think
about You know MacArthur flees the Philippines
in May of 42 at the very same month that the
US Navy records one of its really pivotal victories
over the Japanese down in the Battle of Leyte
Gulf and stop the progression of the the Japanese
down into New Guinea and down towards Obviously
Australia, but you know Manila covers the entirety
of the war. So it's it's enormous in terms of
those memorialized there Let me let me come back
to the book never home As you were putting that
together and as I say, it's not only photographs,
it's stories, it's interviews with veterans,
with people with deep connections to the cemeteries.
Who's your audience and where do you want this
book to end up? Let's talk about how people can
buy it and kind of what you think they'll get
out of it. Okay, yeah, I mean, the audience is
anyone who will stop and listen. So there's obviously
those of a certain age that have served in Vietnam
or Korea or World War II, and now even the Gulf
War. The veteran community obviously is a big
part of that. I think certainly veterans over
50. something changes, I think, you know, that
love of that experience and our brothers strengthens,
I think, after 50. So certainly, that's a key,
I hate to use the term commercial audience, but
a key audience that buys the book. On the other
side, there's an audience that really doesn't
buy the book that I'm very passionate about is
these young people, right? I've done high schools,
I've done universities. The idea is, is that,
you know, they consume information, they learn
more visually than through reading than we did
as young men and women, right? They want to see
a video, they want to look at books or pictures,
they want to look at, I don't know, a short clips
of things. And so my hope is, is that, you know,
I can have a beneficial impact on them because
for them, you know, You know, they've not talked.
They didn't have an uncle who was in World War
II. Maybe it was a great uncle or a great great
uncle. Right. They didn't have anyone that they
really knew. And so it's distant for them. It's
almost like just over the horizon for them to
relate to. It could be the Middle Ages. It could
be, you know, the time of the New Testament.
And it's just it's just in this nebulous pocket
of ancient history, which is really not. And
so to have that opportunity to share these images
with them and the stories of those who were killed
that were 19, 20, 24, 26 years old, 28 years
old, that they can relate to, it's my hope that
that has the biggest impact, that audience has
the biggest, the book has the biggest impact
on that audience, on that demographic. I see
the book and the photographs in the book as sort
of a key that hopefully unlocks some curiosity.
where they go, I want to, I didn't know about
that. That's interesting. I want to learn more.
And that photograph may unlock them to go, whether
it's search on the web or go to the library and
say, I want to know more about this cemetery,
the folks who fought there and that. So I really
think that's the sort of long -term value, Richard
Sherman. And if folks want the book, tell us,
there's a website for the book. Tell us about
that. Sure. I'll digress before I get that if
we have a minute, Jim. They say if you want to
meet an American college student, go to Florence,
right? Because they all study abroad at Florence.
It's 20 minutes to the American cemetery in Florence,
whereas if you're in Paris, it's three plus hours
to get out to Normandy. Your heart and your soul
will be changed in Florence as it is in Normandy,
right? that I would wish that there would be
a way to insert it in that everyone who studies
abroad takes that 20 minute ride all those young
folks. The project has a homepage never home
heroes .com never home heroes .com. And there's
a link to buy the book and I ship you the book.
The book sells for $29 .50. I'm very proud to
keep it as low a price as possible. It wasn't
about making the New York Times bestseller list
or making money on it, because we're a long way
from recuperating. This is a self -funded project.
It took six years and eight trips to travel around
the world to do this. But I wanted to keep it
accessible because this is about, I have a duty
to those. They've become like brothers and sisters
to me. There's, by the way, six nurses and females
in there, many of which that were killed before
or served before American forces arrived. into
Europe or into World War Two or even World War
One in certain cases. So neverhomeheroes .com
and you can buy the book there. The other thing
I'm very proud of is we printed this book in
the United States. You know, it was much cheaper
to be able to print it in Korea or China, but
it was my decision that this had to be printed
in the United States and Warzalla Sheridan up
in Wisconsin did a fine job. in printing the
book and I'm really proud to have worked with
them and very grateful for the work. Let me bring
this full circle because at the outset I indicated
you had certain qualities, intellectual curiosity,
being well rounded, curious, you added in analytical
and you can see how all those traits of veteran
radio listeners Richard Sherman has brought to
this project. We highly recommend go to the website,
buy the book. Leave it out. So maybe it will
be the key that unlocks curiosity for somebody
else to go I didn't know that What went on in
the Philippines or what went on in at Florence
that this is there? So we would encourage you
to do that Let me if you got a couple more minutes
I want to ask you a question because I happen
to know a Marine who has just been appointed
the ambassador to Tunisia I know about the North
Africa conflict but I didn't know anything about
the Tunisian cemetery. Tell me a little bit about
that so next time when I see them I can regale
them with what you know. Very good. Yeah, so
it's right there in Tunis, Tunisia, right past
along the shores of the Mediterranean on the
southern coast of the Mediterranean. There are
some 2 ,700, little over 2 ,700 headstones there.
It's a beautiful cemetery. It's one of our smaller
cemeteries. 27 acres, just over 27 acres. There's
a thousand more listed on the walls of the missing.
It has beautiful, peaceful fountains that run
through it. You can see in the picture in the
book, you see a mosque in the background. It's
a wonderful final resting place for those who
served in that campaign. And of course, the North
African campaign was a lot of things. I'll try
to keep it short. Three things. One, You know,
deserts are not really easy places to hold land.
It's easy to take land, but it's very difficult
to hold land. And so before our arrival, the
American arrival and the massive force that we
brought, starting in Morocco, Algeria, Tunis,
and eventually getting to the east to help our
British allies in Egypt. It was a bit of a soccer
pitch, right? The sides were changed very, very
quickly. And what was left was a lot of war dead
and casualties from that experience. So it's
a hard place to hold territory. And of course,
point number two is the British were adamant
because, and the French, because we needed the
oil to come out of the Middle East up through
the Suez to continue to help with the war effort.
You know, there's an old saying in... Jimmy Ferby
say in the military is that, you know, firepower
wins battles, but logistics wins wars, right?
And so the Egyptians, excuse me, the British
and Egypt endured quite a, quite a beating and
quite a difficult time there. And the third thing
I'll say is that there are very interesting headstones
there of those who had served. For example, there
are those who served in a water battalion that
are buried there. You know, just logistics, like
just providing water so people don't die of thirst
at the front, or it was an important piece of
logistics. And Foy Draper is buried there. Now,
Foy Draper is one of the two Olympians that are
in my book. Foy Draper won the Olympic gold medal
in 1936. in front of Adolf Hitler running the
four by 100 relay with Jesse Owens. He went on
to become an A -20 Bravo Havoc pilot. And in
the battle of Kasserine Pass, his plane either
went down to mechanical error or shot down. It's
not exactly certain. But his plane went down
and he was killed on January 4, 1943. Here we
have, you know, a hero in many fronts. By today's
standards, most of our heroes are athletes. So
he was an incredible athlete with the NCAA championship
in the sprint, in the 100 and 200, I believe.
But anyway, he was the NCAA champion in sprinting.
And here he went on to serve his nation and unfortunately
never made it home. And he's there as well as
several Native Americans that are there. We have
four cemeteries, including Tunis, Tunisia, that
have Native Americans that were killed in service
to their nation. Well, I look forward to talking
with Ambassador Bozzi and dropping a few of these
facts and making sure he and as a Marine I'm
sure he will appropriately honor the 2700 who
are there in the thousand on the on the wall
of the missing Richard Sherman, thank you for
taking some time today. I'm glad we got this
the connection all sorted out but thank you for
taking time to talk to veterans radio on the
book and your experiences in putting together
Never Home. Jim, thanks to you and Veterans Radio.
I mean, we need this in our society day, this
connection, this important connection that we
have. We need community in a world that's really
kind of built around transaction. It's great
to be part of your community. And thank you for
having me on today. And I want to thank everybody
for listening to Veterans Radio today. I am Jim
Fossone. It's been a pleasure to be your host.
I'm a Veterans Disability Lawyer at Legal Help
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