From the studios of Ave Maria Radio in Ann Arbor,
this is Veterans Radio. And now, here's your
host, Gary Lillard. Good morning, and good morning
to all of our military out there protecting us.
Thank you very much for your service. Good morning
to my brothers and sisters, veterans. Thank you
for your service. And good morning to our friends
in Australia and Tasmania. Thanks for listening
in the middle of the night. Good morning America.
Welcome to Veterans Radio. In the booth here,
we've got Dale Stoneberry, the old Huey pilot.
Where'd you park it, out front or in the back?
I actually had to put it in a different lot because
they're doing some construction out there and
so I kind of had to abort my landing and move
it to a different parking lot. Ah, you're used
to that. No, it was fine. Good morning, Gary.
It's a pleasure to be back here on Veterans Radio,
America's favorite Veterans Radio program. Absolutely.
And the air boss this morning is Bob Gold. He
parachuted in. Well, did you steal that parachute
from the 101st Airborne, Bob? No, I didn't. But
this is America's number one air boss and screener
right here on Veterans Radio. Good to see you,
Gary. And good to see you, Dale. Greetings. A
wave. We always wave to each other on radio.
Got a good show coming up. It'll be a serious
show. It's all about the bravest of the brave,
the medical corpsmen, the medics and the corpsmen,
the guys that went out with the grunts and saved
their lives. Dale, you have somebody phoning
into you? Yes, I do. There was a number of articles
that have come out recently regarding a number
of suicides that are being committed by veterans.
They've increased dramatically over the last
few years. Not only is it that there are problems
with Iraqi veterans returning home, but also
the Vietnam and Cold War veterans. The numbers
are going up. In fact, I was looking at an article
this morning that was sent to me and it was Somewhere
in the neighborhood of 700 veterans a day, I
believe it is that are attempting or are committing
suicide. And that's just unacceptable. And joining
us on the line right now is Jerry Barry, who
is with Operation Firing for Effect. And Jerry,
I want to welcome you back to Veterans Radio.
Well, good morning. Thank you so much. It's a
pleasure to be back with you all. Was that number
that I just threw out there, was that correct,
that there's that many veterans that are committing
suicide these days? Well, it's difficult for
us as outside the loop to tell exactly what the
numbers are. The VA has been accused of holding
back numbers, so this is an epidemic and it is
a problem. Exactly what the numbers are are difficult
to get a handle on because in some cases attempted
suicides and suicides are marked down as traffic
accidents. or accidents or death by cop. So it
isn't always easy to get a handle on it. However,
the Veterans Administration apparently has been
withholding the numbers of attempted suicides
that they have records on and it is an epidemic.
So the fact that the numbers are extremely high
compared to the private sector is true. The exact
number is a little elusive. Okay, I was just
reading back in the article and I apologize for
this really over gross exaggeration, but it says
18 military veterans kill themselves each day
and five of them are under VA care and this has
precipitated a lawsuit against the Veterans Affairs
Department and is your organization part of that?
No, we aren't. However, we are assisting in every
way that we possibly can to bring attention to
this problem. In Texas recently they closed the
psychiatric ward at the Dallas VA because they
had four suicides in a short period of time of
veteran patients that were enrolled in therapy
there. So there's definitely a problem and we're
willing to assist in any possible way that we
can. Well, I understand that Operation Firing
for Effect has got a proposal out there that
you want other veterans to participate in. What
is it that you want us to do, Jerry? Well, we
have several projects. First of all, we would
like for them to get on board and help us support
full mandatory funding for the Veterans Health
Care System. But we also have some projects in
the works to... protect land grabs of VA property
happening across the country. One of them in
West Los Angeles where 16 acres of property that
was deeded over to the Veterans Administration
in 1888 for the sole purpose of being used for
homing, servicing, and providing services for
our veterans is right in the middle of Brentwood,
California. And apparently Brentwood and the
community of Brentwood have a different idea
of how that property, that now very valuable
property should be used. And the veterans in
West Los Angeles are protesting every Sunday
at the location and they're asking for everyone
to send. They're retired military flags, the
ones that you would normally burn in a ceremony.
They want to try to get one more use out of them
and they want to surround that 16 acres of West
LA VA property with tattered American flags.
And I think that that's somewhat commendable
because no matter what condition the American
flag is in. It's representative of this great
country of ours. And the fact that these are
tattered and torn and worn flags is kind of symbolic
to our veterans. Right. What if somebody wanted
to donate a flag for that demonstration, where
would they send those? You can do it two ways.
You can either send it to me at P .O. Box 595
Jefferson, Ohio. 44047. Or you can send it to
Gene Zimes, but I don't have his, I'll look up
his address. It's, I don't know his zip code
offhand, but just use my address. Could you repeat
that again? Yeah, P .L. Box 595 Jefferson, Ohio,
44047. And if you have an old tattered American
flag, let's give it one more. And at the end
of this demonstration, we are going to have a
ceremony and properly burn these flags under
the guidelines of the protocol to do that. But
if you have a tattered flag, we sure could use
it to help bring attention to problems facing
West LA veterans. Okay. Well, we have to cut
you off here. Unfortunately, again, if you want
to send your flags to help out with this demonstration,
it's to Jerry Berry. That's J -E -R -E. J -E
-R -E Berry, B -E -R -R -Y, P .O. Box 595, Jefferson,
Ohio, 44047. Correct? That's correct. Thank you.
And you can also go to, you folks have your own
website, is that correct? Yes, it's www .offe2008
.org. Okay. And we're involved in some very interesting
projects at the forefront of the battle to protect,
improve, and service our veterans. Okay. Jerry,
I want to thank you very much for being on Veterans
Radio. We'll get that information up on our site
as fast as we can. And Gary, I'm going to turn
it back to you. Thanks very much, Jerry. Thank
you. Thanks, Dale. Thanks, Jerry. That's a good
use of our flags. That'll send a message. Bob,
you have some welcome homes. We're bringing troops
home every day. Let's say welcome home to some
of them. I've got welcome home. Welcome home
each week on Veterans Radio. We welcome home
servicemen and women who, in the service of our
country, have been stationed around the world.
Dateline Myrtle Beach. After serving for more
than a year in Afghanistan, 14 soldiers from
the first 263rd National Guard unit arrived home
to the local ROTC, Colored Guard, and family
and friends. Dateline Wausau, Wisconsin. About
125 soldiers from the Wisconsin Army National
Guard's Troop E, 105th Cavalry, are safely back
in the United States after completing an eight
-month mission in Iraq. The soldiers arrived
in southern Mississippi last night and are completing
demobilization processing this week at Camp Shelby,
Mississippi. Welcome home, the citizen soldiers
of the New Hampshire National Guard's 34th Rear
Area Operations Center. They are from an eight
-month mission in Mosul, Iraq. Dateline, Maryland.
There's a simple, yet ironclad, rule. And that's
in the local Fogel family of Frederick, Maryland.
Quote, Mom gets the first kiss and hug with her
son, PFC David Fogel. End of quote. The rule
was put to the test as the Maryland Army National
Guardsmen himself and 124 of his colleagues in
Company A, 175th Infantry Regiment, returned
home to Maryland after nearly a year -long deployment
in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom. Dateline,
Fort Riley, Kansas. That's right, Fort Riley.
I was there for a while, folks. Yes, Cam Funston.
All you that remember that, raise your hands.
Okay. Welcome home celebrations for soldiers
returning from Iraq have become a regular occurrence
at Fort Riley. More than 3 ,400 soldiers with
the 4th Infantry Brigade Combat Team, 1st Infantry
Division, the big red one, are returning to the
fort and to their families. Fort Riley officials
say the 4th Infantry Brigade Combat Team Infantry,
better known as the Rashid Security District
of southern Baghdad, conducted operations that
resulted in the capture of more than 200 high
profile targets. The team also repaired sewer,
water, electrical projects, medical and education
facilities while they were deployed. Welcome
back to Veterans Radio. They were called the
bravest of the brave by the Grunts. We're talking
about the medics and the corpsmen that went out
with them and whose job was to save their lives.
First up this morning, we have Ray Essenmacher.
He was with the Army, A Company, 5th Battalion,
46th Infantry, 198th Light Infantry Brigade,
Americal Division. Ray Essenmacher, welcome to
Veterans Radio. Thank you, Gary. It's a pleasure
to have you here. You guys have a story to tell
and we're going to skip the basic training part
of it because we all learned how to... our left
from our right, and the right way, the wrong
way, and the military way, and waking up at dark
30, and working till late, and the importance
of getting up in the middle of the night to spend
a couple of hours of guarding a dumpster. I think
we all saw, we all did that. But right after
that basic training, what happened to you, Ray?
What did they tell you to do? I received orders
to force them, Houston, Texas, to go to medical
training. I wasn't really happy about going that
way. I wanted to go infantry or armor or combat
engineers, but my drill sergeant quickly straightened
me out and said, you go, you serve the infantry,
you get your CMB, and you'll be respected for
the rest of your military career. So I went to
Fort Sam Houston, Texas. And you had a crash
course in the human body and what jagged pieces
of metal will do to it? Oh, yes, yes. In fact,
most of those, they already had Training film
set up and actually going in and showing it and
doing surgery. You guys actually did surgery
or you saw it on film? We saw it on film. Okay.
How many weeks of training did it last? Ten.
Perfect good English. Okay, ten weeks. Then you
got orders to a unit? I got orders to Vietnam.
I was about week six or seven And orders started
coming in and about 65 of us in my company got
orders from Vietnam. What was your feeling when
you saw those orders? Well, at least I knew where
I was going. I had a pretty good idea of what
I was going to be getting into. So I wasn't going
blindly. I mean, it always had enough time on
the news that, you know, you learn pretty quickly
what's going on in the combat zone. What year
was that? What month? I finished my training
in August of 68. And so by that time, the war
was in full swing at the time and you'd seen
it for a couple of years on the news and you
knew that it was serious. What you're going into
was the real thing. That's right. So, okay, you
arrived in country, you joined your unit, and
what unit did you join again? Well, I went, I
was assigned to headquarters, headquarters company,
5th Battalion, 46th Infantry. And I arrived in
the morning and by noon I was on a chopper, I'd
been assigned, attached to A Company, 5th Battalion,
46th Infantry. They were out in the field where?
No, with that, when I first joined them, they
were holding the bunker line at LZ Chippewa.
Okay, where would LZ Chippewa be in relation
to? Oh, you know, after we talked, I went and
got some of my maps up, and they don't show Chippewa
on this one, but I do remember one time they
closed that one down. So it was somewhere between
Chulai and Tam Kee, wasn't it? Yeah. Okay, and
most civilians out there won't even know where
that is, but I was just there about a month and
a half ago because that's where I was. You can
look it up on a map, folks, but the guys that
were there, they will recognize Chulai and most
will recognize Tam Key. So you were chapered
out. When did you end up out in the field? It
was around mid -September. Yep, and you wanna
68 you went out by helicopter. Yes, I did What
was going on in your mind as you were going out
by helicopter to Joe? first time on a helicopter
right of course over there we know during the
Hot season they take the side doors off. Yep
And my fear was I was gonna fall out of that
helicopter. I Flew that way one time it's funny
because I had the same fear After a while, you
got used to it, I understand. Yeah, then you
get to understand the physics of it and it's
kind of hard to fall out. Okay, but what was
going on in your mind? Were you thinking ahead
about, you know, battles coming up, wounded,
how you were going to react? No, not really.
The thing was, I left fingerprints on the Illuna
post because the only thing I could think of
on that flight was I don't want to fall out.
Nothing else had entered my mind at that time.
Okay, perfectly natural feeling. When you arrived
with your unit, what were they doing? They were
holding the bunker line on, like I said, LZ Chippewa.
So for the first, maybe about a week, that's
where I was at. You got acclimated? Yes. Acclimated
to the weather, acclimated to the fact that,
hey, I'm in Vietnam and there's a war going on.
When did you see your first action, Ray? The
next day. Well, the next night, because we got
hit. Didn't take long to get acclimated, did
it? No, it did not. When you said you got hit,
was that incoming or was it human bodies? The
N .V .A. got through the wire. Okay, so you had
them inside visiting you? We were fighting with
them inside the wire. We cleared them out. And
then my platoon leader came and got me and said,
we got someone to dock, follow me. So I just
followed him and there was a crater there and
I could hear guys calling for help. So I just
lived down the side of the crater and got to
the first one and patched him up. This was your
first time? Yes. Were you nervous or what happened
at that point? No, the adrenaline was pumping.
I wasn't afraid at that time. The training kicked
in? Pardon? The training kicked in at that point?
The training kicked in. I did my job. I took
care of the patients. I helped get them out of
there. Then the fear struck. What did I just
do? But you had another guy to take care of?
Yep. So what happened at that point? You went
back to work on the other guy? No, I already
had both of them out and they were dusted off.
Oh, okay. You took care of both of them, then
the fear hit you. Okay. Yeah, after I got them
out of there. What was the second guy's wound?
One guy was in the leg and the other one was
in the arm. Life -threatening, but not life -threatening.
It depends on where they're hit, right? Yeah,
it depends on where they're hit. The most serious
one, when a kid's hit, the most serious one's
hit in the leg because of the size of the femoral
artery. If that had been hit, I'd be fighting
a losing battle. So then eventually you went
out in the field, you were on patrols? Yes. Company
size, platoon size? I did them all, company and
platoon size. What was the most dangerous what
was the most common wound that you had to treat
out there? Basically gunshot wounds and Wounds
from especially like mines and Mortars and rocket
attacks plus the ground fire. It was all of them.
So fighting starts somebody's hit because Usually
a mine or it's a an ambush that you've walked
into right? Yeah, and so it's usually one of
the guys up front. Is it? Yeah, and where would
you go? I'm in the back. You're in the back,
but I I stayed mainly towards the back of the
platoon right, but where did the wounded guy?
Well, they were always up front always up front.
So what happened then you'd hear the call? Yes,
well, I would hear the call. I'd hear him call
for Doc or medic or or crying and I would just
hustle down the trail to get to him and take
care of him and get him triaged and get him shipped
out. Were you under fire at any time? I was,
yes. So your job was to ignore the fact that
you were being shot at and to treat that guy
that was wounded, right? That's what I did. Exactly
what I did. Might not have been trained that
way, but that's... I am a medic. I'm going to
do the best job I can. The guys need me. I do
whatever I can. That's what I did. You had to
see some bad wounds at times like that. Yes.
The worst ones mainly were from mines. What kind
of mines were they? Well, they could be little...
They were called M2 mines, or basically take
off part of the foot. Those are the small ones.
Guy got that basically he's gonna lose lose half
his foot and You'd banish him up set him up Probably
one of the worst ones is a bouncing Betty What
was bouncing Betty? Bouncing Betty was a tripped
Mine that would go up about six feet in the air
and on its way down. It would go off So it would
it would tear up somebody's back if they didn't
have protection on I want to go back to that
mind that I think the slang was toe poppers too.
Yeah. From a military strategic or tactical standpoint,
those were the most effective because you kill
a guy, he's dead. You wound a guy like that,
somebody has to treat him and a couple more guys
have to drag him out of the battle to get him
to safety, correct? Yep. Okay, so you cut down
the forces a lot more by wounding somebody than
by by killing them. Yes. Okay, so these bouncing
baddies were tough. What would the wounds look
like? Well, again, we'll say if you had a flak
jacket on, it would absorb most of it. If you
didn't have a flak jacket on or a rucksack on,
it would just tear the back to ribbons. And they
would be all deep wounds. Would these mines be
accompanied with the ambush? I don't Recall that
happening. Okay, but I was in places where Somebody
took a step and a bounce and Betty went up. We
all hit the deck and on Atlanta it was a dud
We backed out blew it in place got back in formation
again without the same guy took another step
and popped up another Bouncing Betty. We all
hit the deck again. This one came down. This
one was a dud. We moved out, blew it in place,
and then we moved to another area to move out
so we'd avoid any more in that area. What happened
in the next area? The next story? The next area?
Yeah. On the next area, we were able to walk
out. It wasn't mine. Oh, okay. So you had told
me yesterday that one guy tripped two duds and
then the third one wasn't. That's right. On the
31st of January. Tell us about it. He had been
the first platoon leader for the first platoon.
He was a real, real good officer. He kept me
from probably... Doing hot myself when I was
going to go back my m16 we waited till morning
and found us sitting on an exploded unexploded
Chycom grenade I Mean he grabbed me by the shirt
said no doc. You're not going He had did his
time and They moved him to the rear and they
made him XO the company We were on in January.
We were on rust operation called Russell Beach
And on payday, he came out to pay the troops,
help keep morale up, and also because a lot of
guys would say, hey, just send this home for
me, or whatever. And he came out, he was going
down Rice Paddy Dyke, and he stepped on his third,
bouncing Betty. He had no rucksack, no flat jacket
on, and... because his back was cut to ribbons
and three of us medics worked on him. We packed
his back, got him, rolled him onto a poncho,
put pressure on it, died off. We started two
IVs on him and we put him on the dust, well we
didn't even have a dust -off chopper. Excuse
me. The battalion commander was in his command
and control chopper with the Italian surgeon
above, so they came down. We put this gentleman
on the chopper and I just crawled out to help.
And the Italian surgeon and I did CPR on this
man until we got to the hospital. What happened?
They called him. They said he was dead. How did
you feel after that? Well, I had... I had made
the mistake of getting to know him, and I really
liked the guy because he did a good job, and
I broke down there in the ER. How old were you
at that time, Ray? Nineteen. Nineteen years old,
being called on to save men's lives. Yes. How
old was the lieutenant? I'd say about 23, 24.
We've got about 45 seconds left. Did you have
a thought that you wanted to throw in about...
the action that you were involved in? Well, it's
just to remind people. Freedom has a sweetness
to protect it. We'll never know. We know what
freedom is like because we fought for it. And
sometimes freedom by the rest of the folks is
taken for granted. But veterans do not take freedom
for granted. We know what the cost of freedom
is. Well said. Ray Essemacher, medic, stay on
the line, Ray. We're going to have your old friend
Rick Whitson on right after this. We're going
into a break. We'll be right back. Okay. Uh,
Gary? Yeah, it seems like we're having a little
difficulty here with the Medal of Honor. I think
you're going to have to go right back to the
guest, okay? He should be on the line. Okay,
that Medal of Honor didn't queue up. Maybe we'll
get it later on. It's Sammy Davis. He's a very
brave man. But we're back with Ray Essendocker.
Ray, one last question for you before I get over
to Rick Whitson. How many men do you think you
treated while you were over there? I have no
idea. What kind of pressure is there on you when
you've got a mine or somebody wounded and you
ever find yourself where the friends are standing
around because you're not under fire asking you
to save his life? No. Never happened? They let
me do my job. Good deal. I was very happy about
that. Great. Thank you very much. Stay on the
line. We've got Rick Whitson on the line, too.
Rick was a Navy corpsman, did the same thing
as the Army medics, just a different designation.
Rick Whitson was with the Marines. Rick, what
unit were you with? I was with the 2nd Battalion,
7th Marines, 1st Marine Division. What areas
did you operate from? When I started out, we
were right outside Da Nang doing actually like
border patrol for city limits of Da Nang, doing,
you know, protection, a lot of mine sweeps. We
do med caps during the day for the villages on
the outskirts of Da Nang and we did road patrol.
Med caps, that's where you guys treated? illnesses
and whatever for the civilian population? That's
correct. During the day, we would go into the
villages. I would go in with a platoon usually,
and I would try to treat all the village people
for all the illness they had. The serious cases,
we would call in helicopters, and then I'd back
them into the hospital in the name. I was a guard
on one of those one time. What a job our guys
did taking care of the villagers. Boy, they crowded
around. They sure brought in the kids, brought
in the wounded. What an act of mercy to use you
guys to treat them. That was tremendous. I was
so proud to have been a part of that. Rick, you
quickly got into combat, did you? Yes. Yes, I
did. Within three days of being in country and
getting assigned to my unit, we started doing
night patrols and setting up ambushes and within
the first night we made contact with the enemy.
Your first night out? Yes. What happened? We
went out at dusk, did not. go all the way to
our designated area of ambush because you wanted
to wait till it was totally dark to set up the
surprise element and we set in, set our claymores
out and about two o 'clock in the morning we
heard commotion and the enemy attacked us and
we fired back. They always seemed to know where
you were, did they? Oh, absolutely. Pretty hard
to keep quiet when you're moving out into the
jungle. Did they attack come in on the run or
did they just put fire on you? They just put
fire on us that night Gary. Did you take any
wounded? Not the first night. I imagine you breathe
a sigh of relief. Absolutely because you know
being new to the unit the Marines kept questioning
me how I was going to respond and act during
the heat of fire and of course that was in the
back of my mind how was I going to react also.
I did a lot of thinking about that. Well, these
guys could have been wounded in the next 15 minutes,
the next 15 days, and you're the one that was
going to save their lives. So that's interesting.
I never heard anybody say that before, that the
Grunts were asking how good were you and how
you were going to react. But we're coming up
to that break right now. And Rick, stay on the
line. We'll be right back. We're back on Veterans
Radio. The story today is about Docs, the medics
and the corpsmen that went out there with the
grunts to save their lives out in the field under
intense fire at times. Rick, you told me about
an ambush that was a horseshoe -shaped ambush
that was one of the worst ones you'd been in.
Tell us what happened that day. We were on Operation
Alamrook. just outside or just a little east
of Liberty Bridge. We were trying to engage the
enemy. We were battalion size operation. We were
running low on supplies and they decided to send
my platoon with two tanks and two Amtraks back
towards Liberty Bridge. We were probably two
miles away from them for resupplies of ammo,
medical supplies and food. And they told us,
this is good duty today. It's going to be a cake
walk. And like I say, we've been out there for
about three, four days and we've had a little
bit of skirmishes with hit and runs from the
enemy, but really hadn't engaged them. And we
were about 30 minutes away from battalion when
we walked into a horseshoe ambush. They opened
fire on our right. We turned to the right to
return fire. They hit us from the rear. We tried
to move forward. We couldn't. We tried to back
up. We couldn't. And we were literally pinned
down. We had five wounded and seven KIAs right
off the bat. And one of the other KIAs was the
other corpsman. So now I realize that, oh my
gosh, all the medical treatment is in my hands
at this time. How long had you been in country?
I had been there about a month and a half. I've
heard about Alan Brooke from some guys that were
there and I read a story about it. The heat was
tremendous that day or over those days. It lasted
a number of days, right? Right. So you had people
die of heat stroke even? Yes. Yes. I was treating
heat casualties. It was extremely warm, you know,
and of course we were running low on water. That
made it difficult to treat these fellows. And,
you know, you couldn't, being pinned down we
couldn't take our shady areas to get into for
treatment either. What type of terrain was it?
It was a... Actually, it was a flat area. It
wasn't rice paddies, but it kind of reminded
me of farmland that we had with the tree lines
in a square with the open area in the middle.
And you were in the middle of the open area?
Yes, we were because the enemy was using the
tree line as protection. All four tree lines?
Yes. Bad place to be and you had seven wounded.
Did you scattered around? I had five wounded
and seven dead right off the bat five wounded
right off the bat Yeah, and they were obviously
not conveniently located. No What did you do?
You know, of course they were calling Corman
up. I was trying to Maneuver and enemy fire was
coming in real heavy I was trying to get to the
wounded and crawl to them to treat them. Some
Marines would bring the wounded to me. They were
good about that. But, you know, I didn't think
about the intense fire going on around. All I
could hear was, you know, them calling for me
and they needed help. That's an amazing, amazing
thing you just said. There was an intense fire
fight going on and you only heard the voices
of the people calling for help. You did not hear
the fire? No, I don't know. You just tune it
out because you're focused on what your responsibility
is in your job. And my job was to keep those
guys alive so they could hopefully keep me alive.
What kind of wounds did you treat that day? With
the ambush that day, I was treating gunshot wounds.
I got a lot of chest wounds because the Marines
would... Kind of get up a little bit to return
fire and that's when the enemy would shoot them
and most of the times it would be in the upper
upper torso I had a couple of head wounds that
were very severe that was Very discouraging because
there wasn't a lot you could do with them So
that's where part of the part of the that's part
of the brain would be showing right right right
and you know We had metal dressings, we had a
limited supply of medical supplies back then.
With a head injury like that, and you know, the
biggest medication we had was morphine, but you
can't give morphine to a head wound, so you just
try to make them as comfortable and stable as
possible. And our biggest problem that day, Gary,
was when we called in for our first Med Chopper
for Medivac, the chopper came in and got shot
down. So now then I've got the responsibility
of that flight crew that were also wounded. So
then we knew we couldn't get in a medevac chopper.
So you knew you were stuck for the long haul
of taking care of these men? Yes, we just didn't
know how long. And you know, we had a radio man
with us and we could hear that battalion was
trying to reach us and they had taken an extreme
engagement from the enemy at that point. We were
literally the bait to draw the battalion in that
day. The wounds you mentioned to the chest, that's
what was known as a sucking chest wound. Correct.
How did you treat that? Well, we had bandages.
You could put a bandage on it and literally treat
them, watch them, so hopefully they don't go
into shock and try to keep them out of shock
because that's more dangerous than the wound
could be sometimes. So you try to stabilize them
the best you could. A bullet into the lungs.
Right. Ray is still on the phone. Maybe, how
did you treat those? Ray had told me yesterday
about a special technique that had basically
been developed over in Vietnam. Ray, are you
still with us? Yes, I'm still here. Tell us about
that treatment that, I think you said a doctor
devised and it's probably taught in medical school
right now. Okay, one of the things was, The way
I dressed my sucking chest was I would take the
dressing out of the packet and put the plastic
on the wound first. And then put the dressing
on top of that and take three inch tape and tape
it down and seal it. Why would you put the plastic
on first? Because air wouldn't get through it.
So if they were trying to breathe, you wanted
them breathing through their throat and their
mouth and not through a hole in their chest.
That's right. Because the longer that hole is
there, And the more air that goes in there, the
smaller that lung becomes. And that's because
air is building up between the lungs and the
rib cage? Well, yeah, in the pleural space. Okay,
so how did you handle that? Well, what I had
watched my battalion surgeon do is basically
do a decompression in which he took a large bore
IV needle and go over the second rib on the effective
side, go in and once you heard a pop, air would
rush out. So you would shove one of these large
needles in between the ribs? Yes. Over the top
of the rib. Can't do it underneath, gotta do
it over the top of the rib. Okay, and then the
air would rush out and then what would you do?
Then we could use anything that we could make
a flapper valve out of. Such as a surgical glove?
Yes. There's a glove and put a little hole in
the end of it so that way when the patient breathed
in it would clamp down. No air would go into
the pleural space. When he'd exhale then the
air gets pushed out through that needle and through
the flapper valve and then it shuts down for
his next breath. Would you use the whole glove
or cut a finger off or what? Just cut a finger
off. Just cut a finger off and tape it on. Rick,
did you guys use that same technique? Yes, we
did. And one of the other things we did, Gary,
is that when we were running short on supplies
is that when you didn't have the special bandage
with the plastic on the back, we would use cigarette
wrappers. My Lord. Yes. Okay. Hey, we're coming
up on a break again. So I'm going to ask you
both to stay on. You'll be right back. We'll
be right back with Veterans Radio. Please stay
tuned. These are amazing stories you're listening
to. We're back on Veterans Radio. We're talking
about docs. We have Ray Essamacher, who is an
Army medic, and Rick Whitson, who is a Navy corpsman,
both out there in the field, the guys that took
care of the wounded. Ray, how many months were
you out in the field? Ten and a half. Ten and
a half, and what brought you back in? I was only
supposed to be out six, but I decided to stay
out and take care of my guys. When it got to
the point that it was, initially, when I moved,
one grunt would follow me and cover me, if they
were able to. It got to the point there, after
being out over 10 months, that I had more and
more guys cover me. And I'm telling them, get
back to where you're supposed to be. I'm okay.
And they kept saying, Doc, you've been with us
too long. We're going to make sure you go home
alive. And when they did that as many guys who
were following me around died but next time we
went in I went to battalion surgery said to better
send them another medic because I'm not going
to have them this these guys risked their lives
and and the unit just to cover me these were
19 20 year olds 21 year old yes they were the
same as you that acting acting like men way before
their time When they were following you around,
why were they following you around? Were you
having to go out to the front to treat a wounded
guy with nobody? There was no front, so whenever
I moved, excuse me, to take care of a patient,
normally you got one or two grunts that will
move with you and cover you while you're taking
care of the patient because that's when you're
the most vulnerable. You've already put your
weapon down. You've got your hands full taking
care of the patient. And then you've got to get
help to bring them in or you bring them in. So
that means you've got to pick you up back up
at that time. And this whole time, you're defenseless.
Just about. Rick, you were in the same situations.
Were you always able to kneel down and take care
of them? Or did you sometimes have to treat them
while you were laying down? Well, yeah. There
was a lot of times, Gary, that I had to cover.
their body with my body, you know, as mortars
were coming in or rounds were coming in at us
trying to protect them so, you know, they wouldn't
end up getting killed. So you were using yourself
as a human shield for the wounded guy? Absolutely,
at times. And you just didn't think about it.
I didn't realize it until afterwards when you
would think back about this situation and run
it back through your mind. It just like comes
natural. What caused you to come out of the field,
Rick? Well, that same day that we were pinned
down for eight hours, by the time battalion reached
us at six o 'clock at night, the enemy started
lobbing in mortars with just one right after
another on top of us. And the first one came
in and landed by a tank crew. I ran over, treated
that tank crew, got them stabilized, started
back towards my squad, and the next round came
in and it caught me. What kind of a wound did
you have? It just about, it caught me right about
my left elbow and opened up the whole, I could
see my whole joint. What was your first thought
when you saw that you were wounded badly? You
know, at first I didn't realize it. My arm went
numb. I didn't really have any pain. I felt the
concussion of the wound and didn't really realize
it until I looked down and saw all the blood
and tissue running down my arm. and ran and jumped
into a foxhole and there was a Marine there and
I instructed him what to do with my medical kit
until another corpsman came into our area and
started treating me. So you had been the last
corpsman that was available prior to that, right?
Correct. But finally the battalion got to you
with more corpsmen? Yes. Good for you. How many
men, all told, were killed and wounded in that
ambush? Oh Lord. I would venture to say about
20. You were taking a lot of mortar rounds. Ray,
you said one time that you were taking white
phosphorus mortar rounds? Yes. Again, I stayed
towards the back of my platoon because a lot
of these were moving up and down and we were
getting hit. The NVA or VC were using white...
phosphorus and I had guys wounded further up
from gunfire so I went running through a hail
of white phosphorus exploding all over. Thankfully
I didn't get hit by any because when they blow
up they blow out little chunks that burned. Did
any of you ever get CS gas tear gas while you
were in a battle? Not I, no. I was wondering,
I know guys where they got it and I know battles
where the NVA and VC use CS gas and I thought,
how do you treat a wounded man when you're trying
to work through a gas mask and you're trying
to keep him breathing through a gas mask? Well,
I can tell you that one thing is that because
I, after I came back from Vietnam, I got attached
to a unit where I had to learn how to work with
a protective mask and all protective garb on.
And the only thing you'll end up doing, just
to protect the massacre, you'll be moving just
a little bit slower so that you can focus on
what's going on because of the limited vision.
You have no peripheral vision. I want to tell
you something that a friend of mine who was a
platoon commander talked about going through
the jungle in areas where there were mines. He
said periodically you'd hear the whump up front
and then the call for Doc, Medic, Medic. and
he said you always try to step in the footstep
of the guy in front of you because the mine he
may have just missed the mine and without hesitation
the medic from the back just like you were saying
Doc Ray would come charging up pushing past them
and this man said you would grit your teeth and
close your eyes until that Doc got past you because
you didn't know if he was going to set off another
mine right next to you. But he said they never
hesitated. They went pushing right on through.
Well again, we were well -trained. I know the
Navy Corpsmen went through even a little bit
more training than we did. One of the advantages
I also had when I first got into Vietnam was
I spent a week in RVN training. Besides the RVN
training, I got Fort Sam. RVN, Republic of Vietnam?
Yes. We had to walk down simulated mine trails,
mine to trails. It was really funny because we
were broken down groups of four and all four
of us in my group, we were all medics. Really?
Yes. We go down this mine trail and we don't
set anything off. But every group other than
us set at least one mine off. So my only thing
is somebody upstairs was taking care of me and
us, I should say. Yep. The people, when they
hear about all these mines, they tend to think
that it was the Americans that scattered the
mines all over the place. Mines were as big a
threat to you guys as ours were to them. Absolutely.
Definitely. On the Botanical Peninsula in I -Corps,
we did the Rust Beach operation. That was one
of the obviously mined areas by the V .C. and
N .V .A. that I'd never been into. I mean, most
of my, all my casualties for three days in a
row were because of mines and not gun, excuse
me, and not gunfire. Who was it, General, that
led the first Gulf War? Why am I drawing? Schwarzkopf,
General Schwarzkopf. General Schwarzkopf said
the Batangan Peninsula was the one place he hated
most to go. We're coming down to the end of this
show. And I asked Ray what his thoughts were
and what he wants people to know. And I'm going
to ask you the same thing, Rick. What do you
want people to know about your experience or
our experience? Well, you know, I look back on
it and I think I went over there and just tried
to do the best job I could as a corpsman and
tried to save lives as many as I could. I don't
think of myself as a hero, I just think of myself
as the guy that really just did his job. And
as I said to you last night, one of these days
my mind is going to be able to process that term.
I just did my job, my lord. You weren't delivering
pizzas, you weren't writing papers. Doing your
job meant saving broken bodies and... charging
up hills, and I can't process that. I was just
doing my job. Ray Esenmacher and Rick Whitson,
thank you so much for being on Veterans Radio.
The time has flown. I'll be seeing you down the
road, and you guys take care of yourself. You
know what? I told this to a medic one time. Up
there, there are a lot of young men and women
who would love to know who you were so that they
could say thank you for saving my daddy's life.
Thank you, gentlemen, on behalf of all those
kids. Thank you. You're welcome and thank you
for having us. It was our honor. Well, Bob, I'm
a little bit exhausted. When you talk about that
and you picture it, it's just astounding what
these guys did as 19 year olds. We've got some
great shows coming up. Bob, what kind of shows
do you have coming up? You've got about 15 seconds
to tell us. Are you there? Can you hear me? No,
he can't. He's on a line with somebody. Bob's
got a story coming up on the USS Forrestal. He's
going to be doing a story on Ford Motor Company
in the arsenal of democracy. Another one on one
day. It's a day in the life of Iraqi vets. Dale's
going to be doing sound -off next week. You got
something on your mind? Call in next week. He's
going to be doing another show on Iraqi guys,
Iraqi troops. I'm going to be doing one on forward
air controllers, another one on tunnel rats,
and the Korean DMZ. A lot of people don't realize
we've lost 1 ,400 plus men on the Korean DMZ
since the Korean War ended.