All across America and around the world. This
is Veterans Radio. This is Veterans Radio. And
now your host for today's program, Dale Throneberry.
Welcome to Veterans Radio. My name is Dale Throneberry,
a CW2 helicopter pilot in Vietnam in 1969. I
want to welcome you to our program today. We're
going to be talking all about minorities and
immigrants and so forth and women in the military.
I'm really excited to talk about this because
it's something that kind of got off track a couple
of weeks ago when they had that big meeting at
the Pentagon. So I've got two authors that are
going to join us today. One is Doug Sterner.
His book is entitled Beyond Woke, the Diversity
of the United U .S. military heroes and the other
is David Yusuk and his book is Women in War.
So I'm excited to get to both of those almost
immediately but first you know we always got
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let's get right into it so joining me right now
is a good friend of Veterans Radio. And as I
mentioned, his book is titled Beyond Woke, The
Diversity of U .S. Military Heroes. His name
is Doug Sterner. He's a decorated former army
combat engineer, did two tours in Vietnam, a
life member of the Veterans of Foreign Legion.
The main thing that Doug has done probably for
the last going on. 30 years now is he writes
stories and he writes stories about veterans
from all areas and stuff. I think he's gotten
about about 130 books out there now and he has
there they range from army heroes to air force
heroes to helicopter pilots to nurses just everything
all the different branches and so forth. So I
want to bring him on. So joining me right now
is Doug Sterner. Doug, welcome to Veterans Radio.
It's good to be back again. It's good to see
you. Well, it's nice to be on and I'm sitting
here with my coffee and a Veterans Radio Cup.
There you go. You can get one of those. OK, so
last week we did a story on on on women in the
military. and you know some of their opinions
about what was going on and then I you know I
got this from you the book uh beyond woke what
what do you what motivated you to write this
particular book it came about actually in august
this book was put together in six weeks believe
it or not 550 pages uh when uh laura loomer uh
pundit uh Take issue with the army the army did
a story on florid grover the medal of honor recipient
who got the medal of honor in the war on terrorism
florid was actually born in france. Came to the
united states became a united states citizen
and listed in the military enter in the medal
of honor and laura laura lumer's comment was.
Couldn't the army find somebody that was born
in america to profile and it just stuck in my
car i know i met. Warren Groberg, he's an incredible
man. And I thought, you know, I know so many
heroes that were not born in America that don't
fit the pattern of what she's looking for. And
I tossed and turned that night and I got up the
next morning and I contacted my team. I said,
hey, can we do a book on nothing but women heroes,
ethnic minorities and immigrants? To remind our
society of the tremendous contribution these
often overlooked heroes have had in our preservation
of American democracy. Well, I I was. fascinated
when I started reading the stories about these
men and women that you've got in here. And it
wasn't just you, it's a collaboration. There's
a whole bunch of other authors that contributed
to it. And some of them have been on the program.
Dwight Zimmerman has been on our show. Jim Falzone
is one of my partners here at Veterans Radio.
I've also contributed stories in here, but you
start off at the beginning. You go back and you
begin at the Revolutionary War and you start
talking about women. Can you talk a little bit
about that? You know, up to and through the Civil
War, it was actually illegal, unlawful for women
to serve in the U .S. military. However, we have
all these women throughout history during the
American Revolution that served in support of
the military. For instance, you know, you have
the women who Are covered by a specific title
that they were the. You know they were the Molly
pitchers that one of them was on the battlefield
with her husband. She was carrying meals to the
soldiers when her husband fell. She manned the
gun and you have others that did similar actions.
And then, of course, there is the one that really
especially stands out, Deborah Sampson. Deborah
Sampson actually fought as a soldier in uniform
at a time when it was unlawful for women to serve
in the military. She did so by disguising herself
as a fellow named Robert Shurtley. And she served
in combat throughout the American Revolution.
Wounded three times the third time she was wounded
so severely that she had to undergo extensive
medical procedures during which it was found
out that Robert Shurtleaf was not a Robert. The
whole idea of Molly Pitcher really kind of turned
out to be a term used for many of the women that
were. Yeah, you know, we're in a revolution.
There was no Molly pitcher as a person. Okay,
you know Margaret Corbin and others several that
That served as civilians in support of the military
in combat were identified as Molly pitchers All
right. Well, I thought that was cool. I just
I just you know, I mentioned before and I grew
up in New Jersey and and we had You know, we
have revolutionary war stories just going on
everywhere. And you opened up a few new ones
to me. I appreciate that. So let's move on to
the Civil War and we can see what's going on
there. You mentioned in the Civil War, and we
talked about her last week on the program, was
Dr. Mary Walker. Can you talk about her? Dr.
Mary Walker was a contract surgeon to the U .S.
Army, a civilian. She did wear a uniform and
she wore a green sash major sash around her belt,
but she was not You know an actual member of
the military. She served as a spy. She was captured
and did time as a prisoner of war She is the
only woman in history to be awarded the Medal
of Honor Right, but that turned out to be a little
bit They took it away from her. Yeah, it was
revoked because They did a review of the Medals
of Honor in 1911 and revoked 9111 of them, including
those two other civilians, like Bill Cody and
other civilians that were serving as scouts with
the Army. And Mary Walker, of course, was a civilian.
And so they took hers away and they established
that Medal of Honor can only be presented to
a member of the U .S. military. I forget which
president was it later. President Bill Clinton
restored Barry walkers. And following that she
set the precedent and the other, uh, scouts,
including, uh, uh, Buffalo bill saw their medals
of honor also then subsequently reinstated. Okay.
Cause I know that, that, you know, some of the
medal of honors from the civil war were kind
of giving away Willy nilly, uh, like, you know,
if you real listed. I can remember a whole company
that got to theoretically that was offered the
Medal of Honor. Yeah, that was a regiment in
Maine, but that was not that common. Sometimes
we have a tendency to read the citations, which
are very, very generic for the Civil War and
say, oh, they were giving these out like hotcakes.
You know, he saved the flag of his regiment.
In fact, when I did this book initially, I was
going to do my cover story on William Harvey
Carney. The first black american to earn the
medal of honor. When the color bear fell in the
battle in south carolina he picked up the flag
carried it to the port by himself alone. Add
the port until it got dark and then he began
to race back across the sand to his comrades
he was wounded several times waited through a
waste deep ditch a member of a new york regiment
saw him floundering and said. Here let me carry
that for you william harvey carney said nobody
but a member of the fifty fourth massachusetts
will carry our colors he had that kind of pride
and he stumbled into his lines far distant from
the port before he collapsed he handed the flag
off to one of the other soldiers and he said
gentlemen i only did my duty our flag never touched
the ground now he didn't receive his medal of
honor until four decades later But he was the
first black American to earn the Medal of Honor.
I think it's important. And one of the things
that we're talking today, we're talking with
with Doug Sterner and his book is beyond woke
the diversity of U .S. military heroes. We're
talking to him because many of us don't understand
it. Maybe we've never heard the stories of all
of these different immigrant groups that have
served during America's military and have served
with great honor. Absolutely. You know, not only
did the black soldiers during the Civil War,
you know, they were freed and some of them, even
in the Confederate army, I know that some of
this, you know, the slaves were kind of drafted,
you know, to serve in the Confederate army. And,
you know, we really don't know the story of these.
And there are many examples in here. And Doug,
I want to thank you for putting those in there.
We even had a let's go. I know. We'll move into
the Indian campaigns. I'm doing this kind of
different wars chronologically, I guess would
be the term I'm using. So you had, uh, uh, was
it, uh, William. I'll, I'll just say, yes, he
was an Indian scout, very, very prominent. And,
uh, uh, I got the medal of honor during the ending
campaigns. And then subsequently he became a
great leader in. The Indian community and even
advised three presidents on Indian policy Okay,
and I remember reading his story said that It's
it was like I was watching one of those, you
know cowboy Western things like Cheyenne on On
television where he's a scout and he's he's out
there doing everything and you know And the,
uh, you know, the military couldn't really couldn't
survive without him, but they also didn't want
to give them the recognition that they deserved.
Yes. Did you see the story in there or read it
yet of Joseph Madison Crow? Yes. Yes. Fascinating.
His grandfather was a scout for Custer at the
little bighorn was the last surviving, uh, veteran
of the battle of the little bighorn. And his
father became a Crow Indian Scout at the age
of 22. Now, when Joe came along, he was born
in the 1920s, things were very different and
it became almost impossible for someone to become
an Indian Scout in the Crow Nation, because the
Crow Nation had four things that a person had
to achieve in order to become a Chief. You had
to touch an enemy, dead or alive. You had to
disarm an enemy and take his weapon. you had
to sneak into the enemy's camp and steal a horse,
and fourth, you had to lead warriors in combat.
Now, what are the chances that a young soldier
in the United States Army in Europe in World
War II would be able to accomplish those four
things? I don't know. Did they steal a horse
from the Germans? No, he stole 50 of them. That's
great. Fantastic. The book was done. I was limited
to 550 pages. The book was done when I tumbled
to Joe Medicine Crowe's story. And I said, oh,
this has got to go in the book. So I went back
and I kind of did some creative editing on some
of the other stories to free up an extra four
pages so I could get Joe Crowe in there. That's
great. As a matter of fact, let's talk a little
bit about not only them, but let's talk about
the Buffalo Soldiers. This is another whole group
of minorities, black soldiers, that served during
the Indian War. I mean, I guess that's where
they got their nickname, right? Yeah, generally
considered that they got that name from the Indians.
Different tribes have been claimed to be the
originators of it either. for their black curly
hair that reminded them of buffalo or from the
large fur coats that they wore in the winter
time that made them look like buffaloes have
been confirmed where that sort of came from.
But they served with great distinction in the
Indian campaigns. Trying to be a little bit woke
myself when I did the story of the Indian campaigns.
I didn't want to profile a bunch of heroes that
were killing a bunch of Indians. And, uh, so
I had William Alps, you say, who served at the
army. But when I did the Buffalo soldiers in
world war two, I did the story of the three Buffalo
soldiers that, uh, got the medal of honor in
the wham payroll, uh, robbery where their enemy
was all groups, a group of Mormon townsmen that
were trying to steal the army payroll. Right.
Yes. Now I remember that one. But then I went
on to. deal with the ones that also in the Spanish
-American War. The Buffalo Soldiers in the Spanish
-American War were the last Black Americans to
receive the Medal of Honor, none in World War
I, none in World War II, two finally in Korea
after the services were desegregated. And then
in Vietnam, the cover story, William Olive became
the first other than the two from Korea since
the Spanish -American War. In the 1990s, the
army went back and reviewed records. They subsequently
awarded a Medal of Honor to Freddy Stowers for
World War I. They awarded seven for World War
II, and then they went on and did additional
reviews, and there were additional soldiers from
World War I and World War II, and Korea, and
Vietnam that were belatedly awarded Medals of
Honor. And you mentioned many of these in the
book. Again, we're talking with Doug Sterning
here. The book is Beyond Wolk, the diversity
of US military heroes. And we're kind of going
through different wars to talk about different
groups. And let's talk a little bit about some
of these immigration groups. Especially the,
where do I want to go? Let's go to Code Talkers
first. Well, the Code Talkers, of course, were
the Native Americans that their language was
a code that was never broken. I was surprised,
Scott Barron did the story for the book on Code
Talkers. I was surprised to learn that there
were actually Code Talkers in World War I. And
then in World War II, the Code Talkers rose to
prominence and had quite a distinguished service,
primarily in the Pacific and working with Marines
largely. Uh, and, uh, providing a secure means
of radio communication with the code that was
never broken. Right. And the interesting thing
that I found when I was reading this was that
it wasn't just the Navajo code talkers. No, no.
Chickasaw, I believe it was, was in world war
one. And there were other, uh, Indian, uh, uh,
tribes that contributed to that as well. And
you mentioned. Uh, you've got some really good
stories about these guys too, but you know, we,
we don't want to, we can't, we don't have enough
time to go into all of them, but they, um, you
know, historically speaking, you know, many of
these people at that time period were forced
into these Indian schools where they were told
to give up their language and so forth. But luckily,
you know, from a spying standpoint, a radio standpoint,
I guess it's a good thing that they didn't give
it up. Also, before we run out of time, if you
don't mind, I'd like to talk about the immigrant
side of things too, because we're in a time right
now when immigrants have become the boogeyman
that we all want to gang up on. One of my greatest
heroes, personal heroes, I knew him personally,
was a fellow by the name of Silvestri Herrera,
whose story is in the book. Silvestri was 24
years old living in Phoenix, Arizona when he
got his draft notice in World War II. And the
first thing that Sylvester did was he walked
over to his father's house a few blocks away
to tell his father that he had been drafted.
His father said, Sylvester, let's go out in the
backyard where we can talk privately. And so
I walked out in the backyard and his father said,
Sylvester, you know, I've raised you as my son
all these years, but you are not my son. You're
you were born in Mexico. Your parents were killed
when you were an infant. And your uncle brought
you across the border at El Paso and asked me
to raise you here where you would have greater
opportunities. So, Silvestre, they can't draft
you. You're a Mexican nation. And Silvestre said,
well, I had a wife, I had four kids with another
one on the way. I wasn't going to let somebody
else go and die in my place. He went into the
Texas National Guard, 36th Infantry, fighting
in Europe. His company was traveling down the
road when they came under fire from a machine
gun nest. He attacked the machine nest. Yes captured
several Germans took them back to his command
company commander proceeded down the road when
they approached another machine gun nest. And
so best we started to attack the machine gun
nest and found himself in the middle of a minefield
blew off his right leg at the knee. Even after
that he stumbled back up on the stump of his
right knee and tried to continue to advance until
he stepped on a mine with his left foot and blew
his left leg off. at the knee, and then the blood
unchecked, he laid there in that minefield and
pinned that machine gun nest down until his men
could flank it and knock it out. Came back to
the United States for treatment. While he was
undergoing treatment, the army actually assigned
tutors to him because Silvestre Herrera was a
Mexican national and an illegal immigrant at
the time he earned the Medal of Honor. and the
army assigned tutors to get him his citizenship
before he was wheeled in to meet President Harry
S. Truman and have the Medal of Honor hung around
his neck. These are the kind of stories that
I'm encouraging people to go out and get this
book for, because I mean, you can't even make
this stuff up. There's just no way of doing that.
I need to make sure as we come up toward the
bottom of the hour, I want to get to the the
Japanese Americans. Let's talk about them. a
little bit because they you know the niches they
were not allowed to serve in military units many
of them their families and so forth were put
in camps during world war two so tell me about
them well of course uh those who were in the
service many were summarily discharged uh more
than a hundred thousand japanese even if they
were one six japanese were interred in concentration
camps they called them internment camps but they
were concentration camps But there was a small
group of Nisai warriors, first generation Japanese,
from Hawaii that managed to convince the government
to let them do a trial experiment, and they became
the 100th Infantry Battalion, better known as
the Purple Heart Battalion. And it was such a
success that in 1943, the Army opened up for
recruitment to an all -Japanese -American regiment.
which became the 442nd Regimental Combat Team,
the most decorated unit of World War II. All
Japanese, except for one officer who was Korean,
and I love him, Young Oak Kim, I profiled him
in the book, led by white officers, and their
history is incredible, and their stories are
inspiring, and not only what they did included
among them, is Medal of Honor recipient Daniel
Inouye, who became the first congressperson from
the new state of Hawaii and later a senator.
And Inouye and his friendship with Bob Dole and
how those two, despite one being a Democrat and
one being a Republican, should be an inspiration
to all of us how even in our differences, we
can make a difference for each other. and we
can still come together. There are so many great
stories in here. Let's end this by talking about
why you feel that telling these stories about
these immigrants are so important. I feel that
telling the stories of all heroes is important.
I've spent 53 years since I came home from Vietnam
trying to atone for coming home alive and well,
and in one piece when so many of my friends didn't.
And I've spent my life telling their stories.
I love doing that, but this book, I think it's
the best work I've ever done out of 123 books.
because it's an important book for our time to
help Americans realize the importance, the role
that women have played in our military, that
immigrants have played in our military, and that
ethnic minorities have made in our military.
In fact, I feel so strongly that this book needs
to be read by everyone. I did something unprecedented
with this book. My books are available on Amazon
in hardback, paperback, Kindle, and audiobook.
This book is available free of charge as a PDF
to anybody that either doesn't want to buy the
book or can't afford to buy the book. All they
have to do is go to my author website and they
can download that PDF and read this book. Well,
I think that's important and the website is herobooks
.org. That you're here you go to hero books org
and you click and he's got all of his books listed
there So you won't get lost but it it's a book
is beyond woke the diversity of US military heroes
Thank you Doug for writing this book. Thank you
for coming on the program and I look forward
to the next book that's going to be coming out
on Veterans Day cuz That's something I'm interested
in, obviously, and because it's about helicopter
pilots, but don't tell anybody. I'll get you
here to PDF. Okay, no. And so anyway, I encourage
you to go to the to the website. That's hero
books .org. Great stories, many, many stories.
You want to find out what's going on in the military
and the history of the military. This is one
of the sites to go to. So Doug Stern, thank you
so much for being on Veterans Radio today. Okay.
Good to see you again. Good to do it. Okay. All
right. We are going to take a quick break here
and we're going to play a little segment that
my partner, Jim Falzone, put together with NBBDC.
They've got a conference coming up and Keith
King, who is the executive director of NBBDC,
wanted to let you know about it. So here we go.
We're talking today on Veterans Radio with Keith
King, CEO and founder of National Veteran Business
Development Council, better known as NVBDC .org,
about an upcoming conference they have on October
29th and 30th. Keith, welcome back to Veterans
Radio. Tell us about this upcoming conference.
When you hear something like that on the radio,
it's another conference. No, it isn't. This is
the greatest opportunity most veterans will ever
have to work with our corporate members. And
I say that because in two dates, October 29th
and 30th, down in Spartanburg, South Carolina,
we have currently 33. Corporations already signed
up to it, not only attend, but they are specifically
looking for veteran -owned businesses to talk
to. And we call that one -on -one. And those
one -on -one meetings have proven so successful
that our corporations love them. At the end of,
well it was yesterday, I got three emails from
our corporate members asking me to send them
the 26 conference details and I know I should
have them myself. Hey, let's get through October
29th and 30th, 2025 down in Spartansburg, South
Carolina first. And actually, I didn't read the
title of this conference. It really goes back
to what you said. This isn't just a, oh boy,
another boring conference. This is the National
Veteran Business Matchmaking Conference and Veteran
Marketplace. As you say, you have 33 corporations
coming there to talk to veteran business owners
and do business. I see Sunoco on the list. I
see Denny's on the list. I see Stellanus on the
list. I mean, this is cutting across all industries,
isn't it? Of course. And, you know, I mean, I
don't like necessarily, you know, pointing out
the, what I would call the cherries, you know,
on top, but, you know, I got a little company
as I'm sure most people have heard about called
like Walmart, Coca -Cola. Oh, wait, that little,
Oh, that's Amazon. You know, so when you start
looking at who is actually here, or not here,
but will be in Spartanburg on the 29th and 30th,
this is an opportunity, regardless of what you
do, to come in and sit down and actually have
a one -on -one with these various corporate people.
And the good news of this is that they... have
chosen, and I mean, they select, you know, on
a one -on -one because they want to know what's
new. They want to know what's great. They want
to know what our veterans are bringing to the
table. So, you know, we just find it to be one
of those things where, well, I know you've been
there and it kind of takes on its own energy.
It takes on its own. Oh, there's so much networking
that you could never do otherwise by getting
all these big shots and purchasing agents in
a room where veteran business owners can talk
to them. Keith, if they want to know more, I'm
going to direct them to nvbdc .org slash events.
This National Veteran Business Matchmaking Conference
and Veteran Marketplace. is coming up, it's October
29th and 30th, but go to the website, click on
the conference registration. They've got hotel
information. They've got the agenda there. As
you say, I've been these things and the energy
is dynamic. Nobody will really walk away disappointed.
No. Well, the other thing here too is that I've
upset my entire staff because they have wanted
to, and basically put out, Hey, registration
is closed. No, it's not. It's never closed. If
you hear my voice saying, Hey, registration is
open. And one of my people say it's closed. You
say, I heard Keith King say it's open and then
I'll take the heat. So you can show up on the
morning of the 29th. and register and join the
rest of these corporations, but frankly, our
fellow veterans. We're back now. That was Jim
Falzone talking with Keith King from NVBDC, talking
about their upcoming conference at the end of
this coming week. So if you need more information,
go to nvbdc .org. All right. So continuing our
story about people in the military that have
just done extraordinary things. My next guest
is David Yusuk, and David is the author of a
book entitled Women in War. Let me give you a
little background on David. He is from Brooklyn,
New York. Okay, he's an East Coaster, attended
University at Stony Brook, was a police officer
for 20 years. He did a 2017 he produced a documentary
the giant killer based on the epic life of his
friend Green Beret captain Richard Flaherty And
he's just recently taken that I believe and he's
written a book Called the giant killer giant
killers were heroes and special forces legends
Wow, I'm anxious. They read that one, too So
anyway said David welcome to veterans radio.
Thank you so much for having me on Well, it is
a pleasure to have you on the book as I mentioned
is titled uh women in war so what what drove
you to write this particular book i appreciate
that uh my journey into military history was
a little bit of a strange one i'm not sure if
any of your uh listeners know how i got involved
but i was a police officer in miami and i became
friends with a homeless man try to get him off
the streets do what i could for him that's the
gentleman on we know as richard flarity He was
unique because he was also only four foot nine.
So a very small demeanor diminutive man After
15 years of friendship and I couldn't get him
off the streets He just said one day in 2015
here I got to tell you my life story and he goes
into this whole story about him being a green
beret and working undercover operations around
the world and You know, I've dealt with homeless
people. I know about delusions and I've never
heard of something more delusional than a four
foot nine homeless man saying he's a green beret.
Just doesn't know no such thing. So I asked him,
you know, Richard, why are you telling me this
now? And he said, Well, I want you to get my
story out to the world. And I just, you know,
I kind of felt real bad because I thought he
was just making this whole thing up. And then
he's telling me about an undercover operation
he did with the ATF. So Because I was police
officer and detective I looked into it and I
was pretty shocked I started finding old stories
about smallest man joins the military smallest
man becomes a green beret and Then I contact
the undercover agent He said that he did an operation
with ATF agent and then the next day which was
a week after he told me this revelation He was
killed and a hit -and -run So I spent the next
three years crossing the country, interviewing
people, trying to find out what's true about
this incredible story. I mean, him just being
the smallest man would be making into the military
would have been incredible. But then he made
it into the hundred and first airborne. He fought
in the Tet offensive. Then he went to the third
special forces as a green beret. So that that
I did the initially, I mean, I made the man a
promise. I'd get a story out to the world. I
thought. Think initially when he was telling
me as a cop his story He wanted me to introduce
him to a news reporter and he it was really all
about He wanted to talk about how he became homeless
how the PTSD took over and you know, maybe he
knew that this was 2015 we still had Iraq and
Afghanistan vets and and he wanted to Kind of
make it a cautionary tale, but it ended up he
ended up getting killed in this hit and run and
I made him a promise. So I made a documentary
about his life in 2016 and then I thought I was
done with all this military stuff. I just retired
from police work, had a bad back injury and I
thought I was done. But then information from
around the world started coming in about Richard
doing undercover operations in Rhodesia and working
for the CIA and then helping get weapons to South
America. And so I ended up writing the book the
giant killer and it did pretty good. So I had
a bunch of social media pages and I just would
want to learn about because. I came from basically
nobody in my family talked about the military.
My brother was in the Navy and I had a great
uncle that was actually one of the first guys
on the beach in D -Day, but we didn't really
talk about the military. So I wouldn't say I
came from like a military family or had any military
history. So I'm kind of learning along and I
create these social media pages because initially
I was just trying to get Richard's story out
there. And then I realized other people were
telling me about other people, the smallest Navy
seal on this. And then one story led to the next.
Fast forward five or six years and I'm it's almost
you know my little thing every day is to honor
heroes. I look for stories of heroes so I don't
know why but I didn't really pay too much attention
about women and their service in the country.
I think you just always constantly think about
men in war and it's it's rare you start you know
You're thinking about it. And then once I wrote
a story about, I saw an interesting story and
I watched her interview. So I condensed it down
into a nice little article about a nurse in Vietnam
named Virginia Lee Dornhagen. I wrote it. I put
one on one of my social media sites on LinkedIn.
And what do you know, a couple of weeks later,
Ms. Dornhagen contacts me and she's like, Dave,
no one's ever written an article like that. It's
made me, it's so healing, you know, because in
the comments she's reading How many Vietnam vets
are thanking her and something, you know, I never
ever thought about. You think about PTSD, you
think about combat vets, but what about the nurses?
What about the nurses from Vietnam when they
came home and they got the same treatment where
they're told not to even wear their uniforms?
Uh, nobody would acknowledge their service. And
on the front lines is horrific. And patching
up people missing limbs is horrific. So I really
felt compelled. I asked her, can I do a story?
And she introduced me to another Vietnam vet,
her best friend, Laura Heinz Kern. And they just
really let me in, let me do a whole bunch of
phone interviews with them to get their stories.
i like to do you know based on my social media
pages i like to do like compilation books i like
to just get straight into the heart of the matter
Some writers like to go deep into backstory and
explain, you know, their, their upbringing. I
like to just get straight to Vietnam. You know,
you have a little bit of a background about the
person. So that's why I like the compilation
books where I can just get right into the heart
of the matter and what they saw, what they smelled,
what they felt in Vietnam. And, uh, when I did
the book, women in war, I started out with a
couple of Vietnam war nurses. There's a really
incredible story. I ended up interviewing this
nurse, uh, Maureen Robinson, and she ended up
adopting a young boy from I believe it's from
the Hmong tribe and it's such a harrowing and
horrific story the child was supposed to be child
almost died a few times from disease and trying
to get the adoption papers and it's just it's
a heart -wrenching story but thank God at the
end it all worked she got him home she adopted
him she brought him back and it was the all -american
dream successful young man running businesses
and, you know, just living the American dream.
So I'd love to be inspired by stories like that.
And my book Women in War. Like following my path,
I wanted to look into some of the nurses in World
War II. I wanted to learn a little bit more about
prisoners of war, women prisoners of war. And
you saw that obviously a little bit in World
War II, but you saw it in Iraq and Afghanistan.
There were a few women taking prisoners. And
then lastly, I wanted to end. the book with like
somebody that I really looked up to because I
was watching a lot of her interviews. It's a
woman named Francis Liberty, a nurse that served
in three wars from Vietnam to the Korean War
to I'm sorry, World War II to the Korean War
to the Vietnam War. And she landed on the beaches
of Anzio. I think it was in 1944 in an LST. And
I never, I never in a million years would think
a nurse would be on the front lines and that
they were in Foxholes for the first few months
and Anzio getting pounded by bombs. And there
was a lot of nurses injured and a few killed
in that landing. So, um, you know, People ask
me because I was a cop a lot of times what my
thoughts are women in military or women police
officers and if if if you want to jump in with
a question they'll Jump in at any point. I don't
want to run too much Fascinated by what you're
talking about because the stories are so interesting
that we've had the privilege here on veterans
radio of talking to a couple of these um nurses
that you that you highlighted in your book so
in fact i think i just had sarah bloom on earlier
this year and um they're fascinating you know
and and it's it's it's mike theory about women
in the military or women in police or wherever
it happens if they can do the job they can do
the job you know they i don't i don't care about
you know their gender when it comes to that and
you you mentioned some of these and you talk
about some of the things that we've, you know,
that we just talked about with Doug Sterner a
little bit, a couple of the women that were mentioned
in there too. But you've done such a good job
of telling these stories. You know, we are, I'm
talking with David Yusuk and the book is Women
in War. Let's let's kind of jump ahead because
I don't want to run out of time getting you know
I'm talking with you about some of these women
especially the ones in Iraq and Afghanistan if
there's any particular one you'd like to mention
to us You know, there's there's the there's a
native Native American Laurie PS or that was
killed and she was taken hostage In Iraq also,
I believe is with Jessica Lynch and she didn't
survive. She was in a Humvee and it's a pretty
tragic story. I really just wanted to jump real
quick back to Francis Liberty, the one who ends
the whole book. As a police officer, you know,
you just saying about, you know, if somebody
is good to do the job. I wish I would have met
a Francis Liberty a little bit earlier in my
career because maybe I was a little sexist about
I wasn't sure if women were right for the job.
I'm thinking complete, you know, as a police
officer, it's a complete physical job. I remember
one of my first big fights I had outside of a
grocery store and there's a pretty strong guy
and I'm wrestling with him and a tiny female
cop showed up and I'm trying to handcuff him
and she jumped on the pile and she was getting
knocked a few feet away, but she had a whole
heart. whatever she could give, she did and she
jumped in. And, you know, later in my career,
I remember some of the big guys who talked a
big game. I've seen a few of them hesitate to
jump into fights and be afraid. So it really
opened my eyes to it's all about heart. And that
that woman, Frances Liberty really forced me
to write that book because she's also from New
York and you just hear her. I love a humble hero.
And she just From her beginnings in New York
to World War two to in Korea and working in the
mash units and to in Vietnam I can't think of
the base right now, but they were overrun and
she just kept her cool the whole time and and
and that that's a another story that I actually
open up the book with with Virginia Dornhagen
is that there She was with the 67th evac that
they were being overrun and their ammo dump,
which was right next door to them. I don't know
why you put ammo so close to a hospital. I believe
it was 5 ,000 tons was detonated and it blew
out everything. It blew out the power, blew out
the windows, blew out the doors. And the men
are fighting, but the nurses, their first goal
is to protect the men. They didn't have weapons
back then, but they were doing everything they
could to protect the US soldiers. who were in
those cots, shielding them, putting mattresses
on them. It's just, it's a really remarkable
thing of bravery. And if I can open up some other
people's eyes that my eyes were open because
I just didn't think about it. I think, you know,
when I've had the opportunity to talk, especially
to the nurses, and we've had the opportunity
also of talking to the women who were in Iraq
and Afghanistan on the ground most couple of
more pilots and you know helicopter pilots even
jet pilots and and You know when they get involved
and I think it comes back to what you just said
about it all being about heart and You know,
they had this such a sense of mission And they're
not gonna let anybody get in their way the when
you were talking about Francis Liberty it's it's
you know, she was, as you said, in three wars.
I mean, this is unheard of. You know, I've only
heard of two or three other men who were in all
three wars. So, I mean, it's just another story
of incredible women. And again, it's a preconceived
idea that they can't do the job. And I think
that, you know, we have to get past that because,
as you mentioned, Even though your partner was
jumping into the fight and getting thrown out
of the fight, she kept jumping back into it.
Yeah, I recently started reading up about these
CST teams. I'm not sure what the acronym stands
for in Afghanistan. These were women that would
go out with the special forces. because due to
cultural reasons, the women wouldn't talk to
the special forces soldiers as they're looking
for subjects. So the women would accompany them
and they were so useful. So it's just like, how
many times do we have to relearn how amazing
and incredible our women warriors are and what
they're capable of? Yes, you are still so correct
when it comes to that, because some of them,
you know, when they go out on those those missions
because as you mentioned the cultural problems
over there is that you know the women were not
allowed to be seen by men or touched by men or
talked to by men and you know they even got into
some serious firefights out there and i was one
of your stories i thought was about uh maybe
it was the one where they got um the two humvees
got got hit by an ied And, you know, they had
to kind of jump out. I think it was the woman
you mentioned who didn't survive. Lori Piestor.
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. It's, you know,
like the CST team thing, it really resonates
as a police officer because, yeah, we talked
about women jumping into a fight and whatever
heart they have. But the, you know, how much
else they offer to the job many times on domestic
violence scenes the the women wouldn't talk to
me but if i had a female officer they would and
same thing with with kids they just had a just
a more natural rapport with the kids you know
a bunch of big tall guy cops and then there's
a little four -year -old kid and you need to
get information uh sometime i mean it's just
they're they're worth their weight in gold so
You know, it's just, it's amazing how your conception
can, can change. And, um, I'm, I'm really, I
feel blessed to be able to tell these people
stories, to be able to, cause it's like, I'm
learning as I'm telling the stories and every
day I'm learning. I didn't know anything about
Vietnam and I didn't know you don't call a U
S Marine, a soldier. And there was like a million
rules. There's a million rules. I mean, it's,
it's a different, the military has all its rules
and you know, words and, and. If you want to
write about these people, you better, you better
do your homework because you know, it's, it's,
it's their lives. It's their careers. They're
they lost friends. Um, I, I heard the other guest
talking a lot about survivor guilt at the end
of his interview. He was talking about, you know,
I'm writing these books to tell, to honor these
heroes because I survived and my friends who
couldn't, uh, tell their stories didn't. So it.
I was never in the military, but these are the
people I really look up to. And just I want to
jump into one last thing. When I was doing my
research for the Giant Killer book, and once
again, being non -military, I can't tell you
how incredible the Vietnam vets that opened up
their, their, their reunions to me that I wasn't
a military, I didn't serve with them. And yet
they were so generous with their time. So they
welcomed me like a brother. And I, you know,
I just felt really incredible. Well, I think
one of the things that people are becoming more
and more aware of is that police officers go
through many stressful situations on a daily
basis. And that there are You know, there, there
are similar things. I think that that can result
from that. I mean, possibly a little post -traumatic
stress, you know, you're exposing yourself. You
never know exactly where the bad guys are, who
the bad guys are on a regular basis. And that's
one of the things that they know that we knew
in Vietnam is that we didn't, we didn't trust
anybody. That was something that carried over
for a long time for many of us when we got home,
is how do we adjust to not being super vigilant
every minute of the day, which I'm sure that
you had, especially probably right after you
retired, you see something and you go, no, I
don't have to do that anymore. 100%, 100%. The
best way I could describe it is, Working as police
officers, like working in a nuclear power plant,
you really just don't realize you're getting
hit with dosage or radiation. Now, maybe in the
military, it's only two years and you get a really
high dosage. But in police work, it's so gradual
and so slow and all the negativity and all the
hyperactive and seeing all the going on all these
scenes. So it's a slower ingestion of the poison
that the vets who serve one or two tours and
it's just... horrific two years, but we do 20
years. I think that's sometimes, you know, I
just had one of my great friends I serve with
a young guy about to retire just passed from
a heart attack, and Andy Smith and memorial to
him. But a lot of cops just don't believe it
that the stress is getting to them. And it's
a sad thing. Well, it sounds like these books
are kind of therapy for you too a hundred percent
I listen my feet were put on that path by that
little tiny dude and and i've been i've been
uh trying to honor veterans You know since because
even cops have to look up to some some people
and I look up to our veterans Well, we certainly
appreciate that and I think it's um It's admirable
that you know what you're doing i'm anxious to
read your the next book that you that you're
putting out The giant killer, right? The giant
killer, the giant killers out. It's the book
and movie are both out worldwide and it's done
well. I was pretty, it's my first book and I
got super lucky. It was an Amazon bestseller
for a couple of years. I think we're about to
hit 5 ,000 positive reviews. So how I got it
right. The only thing I can say is to be, because
I was an officer and a detective. you know i'm
writing all the time i'm writing narratives of
what happens as a detective i used to write narratives
so i just kind of wrote that book as a police
narrative of exactly what happened well and as
you just mentioned you can get your books on
amazon um dale i lost her for a second okay i'm
just saying you can get these books on amazon
and you are uh david uh Is that nice pronouncing
that correctly? Why use the UK look it up? Right
and it looks like we're having a little technical
difficulty as we run out to the end of the program
Anyway, the book Today we started off with was
women in war a gripping collection of untold
stories of the women's the history's bravest
women warriors Dave I want to thank you so much
for being on veterans radio. I really encourage
people to go out and get this book and check
out the one on the giant killers too. Cause you
know, as we mentioned in Doug's segment, some
of the biggest heroes are the smallest people
you'll ever meet. And I think that that's something
that we wanted to do that. So we encourage you
to go to Doug Sterner's website and look up all
of his books that are there. We encourage you
to go to Amazon and find these books. Next week
is our monthly benefits program. So we encourage
you to Tune in if you have any questions, please
Send your questions to me. That's dale at veterans
radio .org And we'll try to answer them as best
we can, you know with a shutdown going on It's
tough to get any answers from anybody right now.
So we're going to try and get some representative
What's going on in the va? You know kind of inform
you as to what's happening so Coming up to the
end of the program. We're going to be playing
our favorite song here at Veterans Radio, which
of course is God Bless America. And I think that
you're going to enjoy, this version is one of
our favorites. So until next week, this is Dale
Thromery for everybody here at Veterans Radio.
You can catch this program online. Tomorrow we're
going to drop the podcast. You are dismissed.
Land that I love Stand beside her and guide her
Through the night with a light from above From
the mountains to the prairies To the oceans white
with foam God bless America, my home sweet home
God bless America, my home