All across America and around the world, this
is Veterans Radio. This is Veterans Radio. And
now, your host for today's program, Dale Throneberry.
Hey, welcome to Veterans Radio. Good afternoon.
Good morning wherever you are listening to this
program. Thank you very much for tuning in I
think we've got a really good program for you
today Obviously, we're gonna be talking about
women in the military There's been a little bit
of controversy going on in the recent a couple
of months about this And so we thought that we
would get the woman side of this issue. So we've
got three women veterans on the program today,
which I'll introduce in a little bit. And but
we're asking you if you happen to be a woman
veteran or you have a comment about how you feel
about women in the military, please give us a
call here at WAM 734 -822 -1600. 734 -822 -1600.
Unfortunately, obviously, if you're listening
to this as a pre as a pre -recorded programming
won't be able to get the call in. So anyway,
so we'll get right to that in just a second,
but I wanted again to welcome everybody to Veterans
Radio. There are two events that I want to mention
today. One is that the 22 vets a day, back up
Dale, okay 22 vets a day are placing crosses
out at the Washtenaw County Vietnam Veterans
Memorial at the intersection out there on here
on River Drive and they are looking for volunteers
to help them put in the 22 crosses a day. They
put them in every day at 10 o 'clock and they're
going to be doing this up until Veterans Day.
So if you are driving along and outside there
in Ypsilanti Township going down here on River
Drive and you see a bunch of people out there
with some crosses in the ground. They could really
use your help in putting them in on a daily basis.
So that's that word. The other thing is that
there is a concert coming up here and here it
is. It's coming from Celine. The Celine New Horizon
Band is presenting the Joe Labuda Memorial Veterans
Day Concert on Sunday, October 26th at 3 p .m.
and it's going to be held at the Celine Middle
School. That sounds pretty cool. military music
and so forth. So let me repeat that real quick.
It's the Celine New Horizons band, and it's gonna
be a Veterans Day concert at Celine Middle School
on Sunday, October 26th at 3 p .m. And if you
have any announcements that you want me to make
or us to make here on Veterans Radio, let me
know and we'll get those out, not just for our
local audience, but for our audiences in Detroit,
California, Maine. across the country. So yeah,
just let us know. Send me an email dale at veteransradio
.org and I'll get that out for you. Before we
get into talking with our guests today, I got
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in advance. Okay, here we go. So one of my guests
today, Kate Melcher, sent me forwarded or shared
an email. I'm not really sure of all the terminology
that goes on out there, but she sent me this
copy of a post that one of our other guests,
Mindy Dougan -Martin, had sent out regarding
the highest male standard and so forth that's
going on out there. I wanted to get a hold of
this woman and luckily I was able to. So first
of all let me introduce her and this is Misty
Dugan Martin. She is a retired Army Lieutenant
Colonel I think and she's also spent 21 years
in the military and she has started up her own
business called M3 Defense Counseling which we'll
get to in just a moment. So Misty I want to welcome
you to Veterans Radio. Thank you so much. I appreciate
it. Well, and also because of this, I wanted
to get some other ideas here, kind of spread
across the age groups of veterans in our local
area. So I did ask Kate Melcher to join us. Kate
is a, was, I have to put that, she is right now,
she is the executive director of Fisher House,
Michigan, but she was also an Apache Longbow
pilot in her former lifetime and is very active
in the local veterans community. So Kate, welcome
back to Veterans Radio. Thanks so much. It's
always great to be on the program. And joining
us is Lydia Pinkham and Lydia is a Coast Guard
veteran and she was a search and rescue uh petty
officer second class and she's also I have to
you know make this disclaimer here that that
both kate and lydia are on the board for veterans
radio america so anyway so lydia thanks very
much for joining us thanks for having us too
okay so misty let's start with you what we all
know that there are uh a lot of things going
on out there and political world and the military
world right now. What motivated you to write
this particular essay? I think it was just sharing
a lot of the negativity and to see us having
to fight some of the same fights that we did.
I thought that we were passed 10, 15, 20 years
ago, being able to give credit for what we were
doing because women have been serving For decades
and you know and even before that so I think
that that was the biggest thing was just the
frustration of you know Hearing that those rights
to to serve in combat and get the credit for
serving in combat For women was what was frustrating
me and kind of what led to me posting them Well,
what one of the lines that are the one that it
really? Got me was the idea that You don't have
to be a muscle man to do so many of the tasks
that we're doing today in today's military. And
as you pointed out in there is that it, I'm trying
to find the line here and I can't find it, of
course. Okay, here it is. Decades of training
data and operational experience show that women
consistently excel in endurance. fine motor control,
stress management, and decision making under
fatigue. When the training and opportunity are
equal, women prove again and again that effectiveness
in combat has nothing to do with gender and everything
to do with discipline, composure, and grit. That
line, I thought, encapsulated everything that
is going on out there, I think. I think there's
a lot of misinformation that's being spread regarding
what women are capable of doing in the military.
I have talked with Tammy Duckworth, who was also
a helicopter pilot. People may be familiar with
her. She's a senator from the state of Illinois.
She shot down, lost both legs as a result of
her combat experience. And she echoes what you
are saying. So. I'm trying to figure out how
do you, how, how do you feel about what's going
on out there? And I'm going to ask Lydia and
Kate to jump in if you'd like to, because this,
this is going to affect, it affects your generation
especially, but I think it's going to affect
recruiting as we can, you know, go into the future.
You know, Dale, one of the things that I always
appreciated about the army is that it was It
was truly a place for men and women to compete
on a level playing field. I served in a more
technical MOS. I was a helicopter pilot. And
there are not different standards for men and
women in flying helicopters. You either meet
the standards of safety of flight or you don't.
Does not matter what your gender is. When I was
in a line company, I never saw other women. I
was the only one. and you know that was unique
and new and you know it took a little bit of
adjustment but at the end of the day it's about
safety of flight, it's about making mission,
and there are not different standards for men
and women. I think the carefully selected words
that we've been hearing from the Secretary of
Defense have been selected with a certain agenda
in mind. and not focusing on the fact of female
service members having served honorably for a
century. It's only been since 2013 and 2016 that
women were, you know, allowed to be in combat,
quote unquote, or allowed to serve in combat
arms MOSs. But there have been women on the battlefield
throughout American history. What has changed
is not our ability to participate, but our ability
to be recognized for it. until 2013 and certainly
until 2016, you could have a male and female
soldier side by side at a checkpoint when a V
-bed goes off. And the decorations that those
two soldiers would receive would be different
simply because of gender. One would have either
taken action or received wounds because of combat.
The other wouldn't. In my mind, it's never been
a question about the ability of women. It's it's
been about The military actually recognizing
the contribution of these women. I Couldn't agree
with you more. I think you know many times awards
are Happen to be who sees who happens to be there
when and whatever it is occurs And I know it's
not just women when you go back and you look
at at the history of military honors, medals,
and so forth, that there's a certain amount of
discrimination that has occurred not only with
women, but also with other minorities, which
is kind of sad when you think about it, because
we're all fighting for the same cause. And it's
just really annoying. It's really annoying when
you think about, not the philosophy of the whole
thing, but just the the physicality of it. I
know, Missy, I'm going to come back to you. You
talked about some of the physiological advantages
that some women have when it comes to being in
the military. I think I was a counterintelligence
agent for the first decade of my career. And
I think there are a lot of things that we've
learned. let's say with the tiger teams and with
bringing women in to serve with our special teams
because they were able to gather intel that would
not have been able to have been gathered from
a man because the women in foreign countries
did not speak with the men. But they were sitting
there and listening to everything going on because
where they were they were considered important,
but they're sitting there and they're hearing
everything. So once we started incorporating,
you know, our female service members into those
groups, they were able to gather that intel that
these women heard. And I think there are some
things that, you know, just like. There's some
things that you can do just as well, no matter
what your gender is. Some people are born leaders.
I really believe that. I think there are some
people that have an act for leading, and it's
not a male -female. There's great leaders in
both. And I think that leadership... can happen
you know no matter no matter what your gender
is and being a pilot being an astronaut there's
certain things that you know women's bodies do
better than men and you know but it's you know
we're not saying that men can't be pilots because
of that you know so i i think that you know and
into what kate said you know i served in combat
i did three tours um and and saw combat and stuff
and uh but you know when it came time to be awarded
combat action badges and stuff i wasn't in combat
um because i wasn't in combat arms and stuff
so uh those things are frustrating and i think
it's also looking at what we're talking about
now uh it is going to you know harm our recruiting
and and what we're you know we want our young
women to see and to do and I think anybody that
is willing to lay down their life for their country
deserves respect and deserves to be you know
supported in anything they want to do in any
branch they want to do as long as they can you
know do that skill and I do I believe wholeheartedly
that you know some men some women are better
at you know at shooting it better you know rocking
it better you know you go with what your skills
are and what your heart leads you to do and you
know That's that's what it takes is it takes
the mental strength the endurance and things
but i don't think it's a gender specified and
i really don't think we should take away. Women's
rights to serving combat and what a lot of people
don't see is that also when you take away women's
rights to serving combat and stuff it also in
the combat arms it hurts us as far as promotions.
Um, you know, if you look at your four star and
your five star during, you know, combat times
and stuff like that, they come from combat arms
most, most of the time, or they come from because
they saw, you know, or they led certain units.
And if we take away women's rights to serve in
some of those high profile things, then, you
know, we're also keeping them from, you know,
some to make it certain ranks and things as well.
For our audience sake is can you give me a little
background on what you did while you were in
the service? So I served 21 years in the active
army and I was amongst those in counterintelligence
So I was the intelligence officer for Combat
engineer group triple nickel. I served I didn't
you know Train different training exercises and
stuff. I deployed with a special ops unit in
2006 And again, in 2007, I did two tours in Iraq
and then became an acquisition officer and ran
the programs for Stryker, which is like a wheeled
tank, more or less. I ran that program and deployed
to Afghanistan to support our Stryker unit over
there. And then ran the GLTB program and retired
at the end of 2016. And now you run your own
firm. Yeah, so I run M3 Defence Consulting. This
is our ninth, going on our 10th year now. So
I, you know, when I retired, I wasn't done giving
back to the community. I retired because it was
the best thing at the time for my family. I had
two boys that were getting ready to start. One
was being scouted for college hockey and the
other getting ready to start high school. And
I was a single parent. But I wanted to continue
to help the community and help the war fighter.
And so I decided to start a consulting company
that helps companies get contracts with the government,
helps the government. I've done a couple of things
for the government and stuff. And that way I'm
allowed to continue to give back, but a little
more on my own terms. I get to be my own boss
for a change. Yes. Not having somebody tell you
what to do. Yeah. Dale, I want to interject for
just a minute since you were talking about your
son's misty. I understand one of your sons recently
enlisted. Is that right? So actually during COVID,
he enlisted as a Levin Bravo infantryman. And
then he went back to be served and then he went
back to college and he's the second lieutenant
in the army. Excellent. So what what are you
telling your young son as a junior officer about?
what's being said in the ether about women serving
in the military. So my future daughter -in -law
is a cadet and in the National Guard here. So
I get to his fiance. And so I talked to both
of them quite a bit about why it's important
for these branches and for everything to be open
to for everybody. And I think the biggest thing
that I try to instill in him is, besides leadership,
is that not to assume anything from anyone based
on gender or looks or any of that, but to guide
and to support everybody and see more or less
what they're made of. And I think that To keep
an open mind, that's my biggest concern is people
that have not experienced what some of us have
experienced. And there's fewer and fewer of them
in the military, you know, because a lot of them
are retiring now. And so I think that guidance
is being lost. Those of us that served and, you
know, went out through the ranks not being allowed
to. be a combat, you know, in a combat skills
and then finally getting that opportunity. So
I just try to share that and both my boys, you
know, they're military brats. So and they were,
you know, while I was stationed with, I was with
the use of SOC, Special Operations Command and
stuff. So they got to be a part of that family
and they know how close the military can be.
And so they're both very pro, you know, women
in the military and pro women's rights and stuff.
But I think it's just talking through things
with them and hearing their side, because I think
that's one of the biggest things that young people
are frustrated with. And where we lose some of
our, you know, our people is feeling like they're
not being heard. And so talking to them and understanding
their point of view, but trying to explain why
things are important and what the effects are.
Because like I said, people don't assimilate
the not being able to serve in a common arms
with not being able to make rank you know unless
you really understand the nitty -gritty of the
military and stuff and so explaining those things
and explaining the you know how would you feel
if something that you wanted all your life you
weren't allowed to do or you were told you couldn't
do because of your gender you know and i think
that's some of the guidance i keep telling them
and you know to you know i tell my future daughter
-in -law just shoot for the stars you know don't
take you know don't take no for an answer Um,
there's no reason you can't. And, um, you know,
with them both being there, they're in that,
you know, Hey, we really can't say anything political
or anything. And so that was another reason that
I tried to be more vocal. And why I made that
post is because now I do, I am allowed to have
a voice and I try very hard to use that, but
to use it and to educate and not spread hate.
Absolutely. I couldn't agree with you more on
that. Um, Lydia, I wanted to ask you. You know
since you're kind of the youngest of the group
here that you know that what caused you to enlist
in the first place? Honestly Dale I I talked
to a recruiter after being a swimmer my entire
life I was I think fresh out of high school or
last year of high school. I can't remember when
and This guy came up to me at a swimming and
he said have you ever thought about joining the
Coast Guard and I went What's the Coast Guard
again? But it was presented to me as an opportunity
to help people getting the same benefits that
everyone else in the military got. But that it
was here, it was domestic. It was protecting
the United States and serving and helping people
instead of presented in this lens of going overseas
and being part of a war. more like serving people
instead of being part of a conflict is the way
that it's framed. But I was very drawn in by
the benefits, specifically education benefits.
But I also needed some direction at the time.
I didn't really know what I was doing with school
and it was a good opportunity for me. But when
I went in, I was talking to a recruiter. I was
working on a contract, an employment contract
that still had six months left. But the recruiter
was trying to get me to go immediately because
they needed women. They had a quota that they
were trying to meet to recruit women that year.
And at the time that I went in, the Coast Guard
was only about 10 percent female. And they were
he was saying, you know, could you go next week?
You could leave for boot camp next week. And
I panicked and said, give me a couple of months.
So I mean, I originally went in for the benefits.
And I loved being on the water. I loved swimming.
And I just really wanted to help people. And
I think when I got out, it was a little bit higher
by the time I get out, I think about 14%. But
I served at a couple different units that had
very low percentages of women. So on a ship based
out in the Pacific Ocean, a crew of about 180.
And I want to say there were maybe only 25 women
on board. And then my unit in Florida, I was
at a searching rescue and law enforcement unit,
and we had a couple women at the station. But
for a long time, I was the only woman on the
tactical operating team. So it's, I've, I've
kind of gotten used to being one of the only
women at a unit. And I I have a lot of feelings
about the things that are going on now, what
we're hearing, the messages that are being sent
down to the people in the military now and to
the general public and trying to organize all
these thoughts to contribute to this conversation
is really hard because I feel a lot of things.
we talked in the very beginning of this conversation
about things like a physical fitness test and
women being able to meet the the highest standard
that men are held to and I We went through a
lot at my Florida unit trying to suggest and
submit recommendations for a universal fitness
test that dependent on the type of unit you were
at so our fitness test when I was down there
in Florida was like a run or a swim, push -ups,
your sit and reach, and your sit -ups or crunches.
And we just did not feel like those were adequate
representations of how capable we were at doing
our jobs. And instead of push -ups, a better
way to evaluate whether someone was good at my
job was to throw a giant sack of potatoes in
the water and make them heave it out. couple
times in a row, because that's what we were doing,
or pulling bodies out of the water. And you can
have a certain type of strength. Maybe you're
great at pull ups, but really terrible at pulling
a human being out of the water. So we were trying
to come up with some way to evaluate physical
fitness in a way that was actually applicable
to the job that you're doing. there's no difference
there with men or women. If you can do the job
that you're supposed to be doing, you should
be allowed to do the job. So, you know, I have
a lot of feelings about the PT test, mostly because
I am not built for pull -ups, but I can pull
someone out of the water pretty well. So, yeah,
I have feelings about this, you know, highest
standard when it should depend on the job. If
you can do the jobs and that should be good enough.
Thanks. So I agree. I agree. And so how does
educational benefits pay off? Pretty well. I
have a couple degrees all paid for by the government
in some way or another. And I work as an academic
advisor now for engineering doctorate students.
And I have a lot of veteran students. And I still
get to assist them, kind of help them through.
Um, you know, not just the GI bill, but their,
their VA benefits, basically everything that
they might have access to as a veteran student.
Um, just kind of passing along the experience
that I had going through school. So, um, yeah,
the benefits worked out great. No, I mean, that's,
that's an important part. I mean, even, even
50 years ago, when I, when I got out of this
service, my benefits paid. for an undergrad and
a master's degree. So that's part of the thing
that I'm concerned about is if we start eliminating
women from many of these MOSs and so forth, then
that they're going to miss out on these opportunities
that you and Kate, I know you use yours and Misty,
I'm sure you used yours along the way. That's
what I'm concerned about. And you also mentioned
the idea of these PT requirements. And I guess,
Misty, I'm going to ask you this. Is it the same
for all of the different parts of the military,
or is it the one where you've got to do the 350
-point thing? So in the Army, we've changed a
million times. I was told that they just switched
again, I think, last year or something. So I
think they still haven't figured it out yet.
So they're still not even sure what the accurate
gauge is across the board. And I don't know if
they ever will. There's so many different jobs.
And so my branch of the Army, so I really can't
talk to any of the other ones. But there's so
many different jobs in there. And so what the
right physical test is. But he was saying about,
you know, what she had to do. I mean, you know,
when I was deployed, one of the times, you know,
I was on for 20 hours and off for four and I
did that for six months. You know, at the time,
it didn't bother me at all. It just is how, you
know, my body was and stuff. And I was able to
still think of my feet and still, you know, run
two shifts. And so. That had nothing to do with
whether I could, you know, and I've always been,
I mean. Just because I've always been great at
push -ups. I could knock out 60 in 60 seconds
when I was you know in and it's just one of those
things But I'm five feet tall, so I'm not a good
runner. I mean I have to double time pretty much
just to keep up with people But I could rock,
you know with a 60 pound rock, you know 60 pound
rock on for you know, two days straight and doesn't
you know bother me at all so They've done it
by age and they've had it to where the youngest
age group is the hardest and then for a while
they went to the second oldest is the hardest
because by then you've tuned your body a little
bit. So when they'll get it right, I don't know
what's right. I don't know that either. I mean,
it's just one of those things that they keep.
crime and You know like so with all the different
jobs in the military and stuff. I don't think
there is one PT test that across the board is
fitting So I will mention that there's some administrative
standards and that's a little bit what Misty
was speaking to right and those are going to
be gauged based on age gauged And on gender in
some cases that everybody has to meet that's
the minimum standard That doesn't have anything
to do with your job. You can max out a PT test
as a female and maybe not even make it through
Rope, which is like the introduction to the Ranger
school. There are different tests that come with
the more demanding jobs. Either those tests are
physical or they're mental. And I don't know,
the bottom line for me, and I think what is so
frustrating is that the recent comments I think
only serve to weaken the force, right? The United
States military is and has been the greatest
fighting force that the world has ever seen.
And, you know, there was a time when there were
questions about whether units should be racially
integrated and the military is better because
it is. There was a time when, you know, There
was a real worry about including women in uniform
at all and the military is better because we
have integrated women Every time you open the
aperture and include more people who can compete
for the best jobs You have the better opportunity
of getting the best of the best and maintaining
the greatest fighting force the world has ever
seen Well, I agree with that now it's it's I
Think it was so frustrating And I'm trying not
to look at this one strictly from a male perspective,
which is why I have you three on here to add
your thoughts to this. When I was in the service,
granted that was in the Revolutionary War, but
it's women were not allowed. I guess that's the
term. They were not allowed in any of the combat
fields at all. And it just seemed wrong. Kate
and I have talked about helicopter flying and
the deft touch, the feel that you have when you
finally figure out how in the hell to hover something.
And it doesn't make any difference whether you're
male or female in that particular task. I think
when The idea of if you're moving up in the combat
arms Yeah, you have to have a different test
You know because everybody well not everybody
most everybody can make it through basic training
and then if you get you know go for a special
unit then and they require more strength that
they require more running or require whatever
it might be then that that test may change My
concern is that they're they're trying to Turn
the military into this big macho Organization
that I Don't know it's just it's beyond me that
that they're you know, they're trying to eliminate
whatever their percentage of Women are that are
in this service right now that have been doing
a great job I mean if if they haven't been doing
a great job, they wouldn't have been able to
advance Dale there's about 20 % of uniformed
service members that are females at this point.
So it's a significant portion of the fighting
force across all MOSs, across all branches. I
mean, that should say something. I mean, you
know, we can't go back. That's the whole thing.
You can't go back. You got to keep moving forward.
We do have a call on the line right now. And
I hope it's an educational benefits call. If
it's a regular benefits call, we might have to
cut it a little bit short. But we've got I'm
on a line. I forgot. I erased your name already.
Hello. Oh, yeah. I'm pretty sure I'm going to
be on track. I'm very supportive of educational
benefits. I just was going to raise it from the
Pennywise pound foolish angle. America is made
stronger with educated people. And if a person
goes through the service, gets the training through
the service, and then once they're out, they're
allowed to get not only civilian training, but
advanced training if need be. It's an investment
for America. It makes America stronger when we
have clever people with new inventions and interaction
and all sorts of things. As a matter of fact,
I don't know if either of you or all of your
guests, the rise and fall of the Roman Empire.
It opens up and it says that the empire fell
because of paranoia, that they had created so
many enemies that they had to be looking out
in every direction at all times and they could
never relax and they could never fix the sewer
system or the potholes. And so just the idea
of people getting a little education to make
sure we don't forget that or repeat that in history.
Well, I agree with you, Tom. I want to thank
you very much for giving us a call. The idea
of the education is really important. And for
those of us who went through the military, there
were always opportunities for us to expand our
education even while we were on active duty.
and I'd like to bring Misty on this. I know that
up at the, I hate to say real life officer, you
know, up in the captain and that, you know, all
above that, they always had to continue going,
you know, getting more education, didn't they?
Yeah, they were you were expected to continue
your education both Military education, you know,
they're very big on sending the officers to military
schools and such and then to make a certain You
know promotion point you had to have you know
Your best bachelor's of course to get in and
then your masters to continue to progress Yeah,
and and We're gonna take a really kind of a short
break here and when we come back I want to talk
about uh some of the reduction that that we're
reading about where so many of these senior officers
are retiring or being being riffed out of there
so hold on we're talking today on veterans radio
about women in the military and we're we're just
kind of having a discussion on it we don't you
know we we're trying to figure out what the ultimate
goal is of what the current administration is
doing so we're going to take a quick break um
every week here on veterans radio we highlight
a medal of honor recipient there's only been
one female medal of honor recipient and so i'm
going to read the citation for her says, whereas
it appears from official reports that Dr. Mary
E. Walker, a graduate of medicine has rendered
valuable service to the government and her efforts
have been earnest and untiring in a variety of
ways and that she was assigned a duty and served
as an assistant surgeon. in charge of female
prisoners at Louisville, Kentucky, upon the recommendation
of major generals, Tecumseh Sherman and Thomas,
and faithfully served as a contract surgeon in
the service of the United States. And it's devoted
herself with much patriotic zeal to the sick
and wounded soldiers, both in the field, in the
hospitals, to the detriment of her own health,
and has also endured hardships as a prisoner
of war for months in a Southern prison, while
acting as a surgeon. And whereas, by reason of
her not being a commissioned officer in the military
service, a brevet or honorary rank cannot, under
existing laws, be conferred upon her, and whereas
in the opinion of the President an honorable
recognition of her services and suffering should
be made, it is ordered that a testimonial thereof
shall be hereby made and given to the said Dr.
Mary E. Walker, and that the usual Medal of Honor
or notorious service will be given her. Under
my hand in the city of Washington D .C. on the
11th day of November A .D., 1865, Andrew Johnson.
We're going to play a couple of PSAs here and
then we'll be right back continuing our talk
about women in the military. If you have a VA
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and some substance abuse. That's when James called
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A message from the Michigan Department of Health
and Human Services. We're back here on Veterans
Radio and we're talking with our three women
veteran guests today. We've got Misty Dugan Martin,
she's the United States Army Lieutenant Colonel
retired and then she's the founder of M3 Defense
Consulting. We've got Kate Melcher, she retired
as a captain from the United States Army, helicopter
pilot. And we've got also we got Lydia Pinkham.
It's a Coast Guard veteran and a board member
for Veterans Radio American. We're just trying
to figure out what is going on under a Secretary
of War excess speech to all of those generals.
I was uncomfortable for them. I don't know what
that was all about. I'm trying to figure out
why. why they are not encouraging women to continue
joining the military. And as Misty, as you pointed
out, without combat experience, you can't get
to that next level. We have a good friend here
in Ann Arbor who is a colonel and she got passed
over for a general. She wasn't able to get her
star because she had no combat experience. And
I think I've heard that story many, many times.
And then what was going on in the news was that
they were releasing many of the leaders of various
branches of the service and women admirals and
generals and so forth. And I'm just wondering
what's going on. What is your opinion? This is
what we're doing today. What is your opinion
of what is going on? I think this is the first
time we've really seen the administration lean
one way or the other. I think in the past they've
always tried very hard to be apolitical once
in office. I'm not saying that you couldn't tell
who was you know what but they've tried very
hard to be apolitical and to bring the country
together and unfortunately you know my opinion
That's not happening right now. I don't think
there is concern about bringing everybody together.
I mean, some of the words that were actually
said was, if you don't agree with me, there's
the door, more or less. And if you don't like
it, there's the door. And I think that's not
the right approach to take, no matter what. Because
my concern is that If the people that want true
equality and want to put the right people in
the right jobs and stuff, if they continue to
leave and retire and such, then who's going to
take that stand? Who's going to say no when they're
told to do things that are not what we swore
an oath to? And that's my biggest fear is everybody
That would take a stand getting out and then
all you have is a bunch of yes people remaining
and You know to look at people that have those
people that were there had served, you know At
least 20, you know years and most of them, you
know more close to you know 30 years and to look
at them and to tell them that you know from You
know somebody that did not serve, you know in
those type of, you know, for that longevity and
for somebody that never served and actually avoided
serving to say, you know, that they were tired
of, you know, people that were fat or were out
of shape or that couldn't meet standards. You
know, I was mad for them. I was, you know, I
was curious for them, for them to be talked to
like that and for You know, for the people that
have served to, you know, I mean, some of the
people that have just been released for no cause
whatsoever that have been relieved of duty, you
know, people that have served honorably and just
because they don't meet the standard that these
two or three people want them to meet and what
they think a service member looks like. You know,
that's I mean, that's my biggest, biggest fear.
is great with everything that's going on is,
you know, they have this idea image of what the
right person looks like that should be serving.
And it's, you know, that's not what our military
like, you know, Kate said earlier, that's not
what our military is. And nor has it been, you
know, and it's better because it's not. You know,
I I obviously think similarly to Misty. I would
say two things. Number one, every officer in
that room not only swore an oath to support and
defend the Constitution of the United States,
but also the laws thereof. So the Hatch Act,
there are actual laws on the books that prohibit
political behavior and political speech in uniform.
So I'm certain there's a... a good amount of
discomfort just from that. The other piece is
actually something that the caller sparked, and
that's at the risk of sounding ham -handed because
I think that's what the whole Secretary of War
speech was, ham -handed. I had a mentor officer
tell me that an enlisted person's job is to do,
an officer's job is to think. And every one of
those men and women that had multiple stars on
their shoulders or on their chest, many of them
came through the academies. They were selected
among the best of the best in their high school
so that they could go to the best colleges that
we offer in the US and have spent 20, 30 plus
years in uniform. And like Misty talked before,
there's an expectation that you continue your
education, not just formally when you go to Army
War College, but You know, the Chief of Staff
of the Army publishes a professional reading
list every year. And the expectation is that
you read what's on that list. And it's everything
from, you know, Sun Tzu and von Clausewitz and,
you know, the classic books on military tactics
and leadership up through, you know, asymmetric
warfare or essays by the Brookings Institute.
You know, these are thinking men and women who
understand nuance, who understand the modern
theaters of war and the simple, having the secretary
of war suggest that it's as simple as maxing
out a PT test completely misses the point of
what our professional military leaders have been
spending their lives devoted to. I mean, it's
hard for us. here to, as Misty pointed out, I
think a lot of veterans in the veteran community
were upset by that whole meeting without going
into any great details about what it was. But
it just seemed like they brought in every general
from across the country at great expense across
the world and kind of tried to belittle them.
And I don't know, I was always taught you know
I was always taught to respect my superior officers
and right now I'm feeling a little bad about
that statement because those men in that room
they men and women in that room they really couldn't
stand up and say what is going on here because
we serve you know because of the way our our
military is set up we serve at the you know at
the behest of a civilian leader and you know
we don't We don't normally question that, but
I think we have to start thinking about what
is happening here. We're running out of time
already, and I'm just going to get maybe one
last comment from each of you about where is
this going? Lydia, I'm going to start with you,
because you're the really smart one here, I know.
Oh, that's I don't think the superlative was
a great use in this case. Dale, I'm really glad
that you mentioned the expense of it, because
at the end of the day, whether or not you believe
women should be serving in combat roles or any
of the things that we've talked about here today,
they held a meeting that costs hundreds of thousands
of dollars to fly members of the military, these
generals all over to come to this place and hear
them talk. it's really hard to sit back and watch
some of the fiscal aspects of this happening
the last few months. Coming from a branch that
was constantly told do more with less and kind
of seeing behind the scenes sometimes how that
money is spent. When I saw pictures of that meeting,
my first thought was, holy crap, they flew everybody
there. They had per diems. They were on orders.
This must have cost so much money. And they could
have watched a video. So I'm glad you mentioned
the expense part. I think in general, one of
the best lessons that I took with me when I left
the service was that you never know who's going
to bring what to the table. And if we are trying
to have a less diversified military force. We're
getting rid of a lot of people that could really
help in any situation. And I'm obviously biased,
but I think women bring a lot of great skill
sets to the table. Logistics and operations.
Women are actually, I work with engineers now
in the aerospace engineering field and women
make excellent engineers and they're constantly
overlooked. So You know, I'm a big proponent
of everybody brings something to the table and
the military right now is trying to get rid of
people that that could be changing our service
for the better. And, you know, I'll kind of leave
it at that. It's I think that we are kind of
shooting ourselves in the foot with what the
future of our military could be by not keeping
the best and brightest there. So great. I think
this is a subject that we have to we have to
address more often. And I think it's something
that we can do into the future. We've run out
of time today. So I want to make sure that I
thank Kate Melcher, Misty Dugan -Martin for being
on the program along with Lydia to share your
thoughts and opinions. I think it's so important.
And we'll get back to you and do this again because.
Who knows what's happening next? All right So
we're going to be going out as usual on a god
bless america But because it's women in the military
today I chose chose mary k messenger and she
is a retired army sergeant major with the united
states military academy's band She spent uh,
and her note was she spent 29 years one month
and 21 days in the military and uh I'd love her
version of god bless america and we're still
sold Lucky and grateful that we have this country.
Let's make sure we keep it So until next week,
this is Dale Thromberg for all of us here at
veterans radio. You are dismissed with light
from above, from the mountains to the...