WEBVTT

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All across America and around the world, this

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is Veterans Radio. This is Veterans Radio. Good

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day. I'm Jim Fosson. I'm the Officer of the Deck

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today here on Veterans Radio, and thanks for

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joining us. We've got two great stories to tell

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you today. One is on vets to drones. It's a discussion

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how veterans can get involved in the drone industry.

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And the second is about rating or scoring veterans

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charities with a group that does that. We all

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get solicited. We want our money to really go

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to veterans and not administrative costs. You'll

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find that interesting as well, so stick around.

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We always want to remind you, you can find more

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about Veterans Radio at its Facebook site or

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at the web, veteransradio .org, where we're on

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the web 24 -7. You can find a lot of our podcasts

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there as well. We post new ones every Tuesday,

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so you can get a new story, a new interview,

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something you didn't know before by going to

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veteransradio .org. And before we get started,

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we want to thank our sponsors. First up, we want

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to thank National Veteran Business Development

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Council, nvbdc .org. It was established to certify

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both service disabled and veteran owned businesses.

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You'll find out how they can help your business

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by going to nvbdc .org. We want to thank Legal

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Help for Veterans. Legal Help for Veterans fights

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for veterans disability rights all across the

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nation. You can reach them at 800 -693 -4800

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or on the web at legalhelpforveterans .com. And

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finally, PuroClean. PuroClean is the paramedics

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of property damage. It provides water damage

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remediation, flood water removal, fire and smoke

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damage remediation, mold removal, biohazard cleanup.

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It also has a focus on veteran franchisees. You

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can learn more about them by going to PuroClean

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.com. We just want to remind you that veterans

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radio podcasts are available on all your favorite

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Radio and Reeves Across America Radio. We were

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recently identified as the in the 15th spot,

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if you will, of the top 100 veteran -centric

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podcasts by Feet Spot. So really pretty proud

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of being in the top 15. So listen in wherever

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you're at to veteransradio .org and its podcasts.

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We want to welcome to Veterans Radio Chris Lewis,

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a Marine and Army vet. We're going to talk a

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little bit about that, but he's involved in a

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really cool effort in getting veterans into the

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drone industry. Chris, welcome to Veterans Radio.

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Thanks, Jim. It's great to be here. Had a nice

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kid like you first end up in the Marines for

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about eight years, then did a couple of years

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in the Army, and then moved on. Tell us about

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it. Well, I am an Army Brett. I was born on Fort

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Polk and I asked my mother who did 23 years in

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the Army, I asked her, you know, what branch

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to go into and she said, whatever you do, don't

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join the Marine Corps. So naturally. Yeah, exactly.

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So tell us what you did in the Marine Corps.

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Did motor transport and that's kind of where

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I got my first touch on drones. I was actually

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deployed to Helmand Province, Afghanistan and

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was handed a box and said, hey, you got to use

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this thing. I said, what's in the box? They said

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it's a drone. I was like what's a drone? 20 -year

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-old Lance Corporal had no idea but we did figure

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it out so ended up flying that during convoy

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operations so we did security gun trucks around

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long logistics convoys across Helmand province

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and through the RQ -11 Raven and did persistent

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ISR around the convoys whenever we went firm

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at night and began to deploy in the mornings

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as well. Well, it's really been an interesting

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progression to watch how drones have become almost

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mandatory gear in military life. You just have

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to watch the nightly news and see what Russia's

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doing to Ukraine and Ukraine's doing to Russia,

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and the advances the U .S. is trying to get,

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and actually even Taiwan I was reading about,

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trying to build up a drone arsenal whether they

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are in the air or in the water. to counter some

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of the activities of the Chinese. So drones and

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drone operation proliferates in the military

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world. How did you move your military experience

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with drone operations over into the civilian

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world? That's a great question. I think I got

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really lucky to be honest. I got out of military

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2018. went to NC State using the GI Bill, was

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actually given a couple of courses and projects

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that involved drones, and was going to end up

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in grad school doing agricultural -based research

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using drones to do multispectral imagery across

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North Carolina. But COVID hit, laboratory shut

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down. ended up with a nice shiny piece of paper,

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May of 2020, and then found a guy at the park

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right here in Raleigh, and he said, do you want

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to go to California and start flying robots around

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and making money doing it? I said, yes. Where

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do I fly, right? Exactly. Less than 48 hours

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later, we were on the road in a 2002 F -150,

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camping gear in tow, robots in the back, and

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we drove to California where we started doing

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power line inspections for the wildfire mitigation

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program out there. That was my first kind of

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toes getting dipped in the water, if you will.

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Finished up that contract, went down to Hurricane

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Dorian in Florida, same thing, power line inspections

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down there. Eventually got licensed, became a

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part 107 holding drone pilot, if you will, then

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went out to the Midwest and started doing telecommunication

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inspections across the Midwest. And that kind

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of started my cycle of contracting operations

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across the country. Naturally, started recruiting

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other veterans into the industry, just like,

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hey, I found something. It's incredible. It fits

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like a glove. You won't believe it, but come

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on out here with me. So I started bringing other

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veterans. My brother is an Air Force veteran,

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brought him with me on one of the contracts.

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or several contracts. Some guys I served in the

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Marine Corps with, folks I met at NC State, some

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fellow veteran students, and started bringing

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them out on contracts with me. And then about

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two or three years of that, we met up at a bar

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in San Bernardino, California during one of these

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contracts with about 40 other veterans and another

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drone pilot and said, hey, we're going to formalize

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this kind of initiative of recruiting and we're

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going to call it Vets to Drones and we're going

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to start this program and start bringing other

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veterans into the industry. Well it's a great

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and a great idea and an advancing industry right

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it's an area where you can see growth just happening

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probably every month but but for the uninitiated

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Chris talk about the areas that civilian drone

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operators work. What industries use them these

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days? Well that's a great question. There's a

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variety of verticals across the industry and

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everywhere you look there's opportunity. You

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got to make sure you stay focused in your niche

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and learn your niche early. So I started in power

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line inspections. So infrastructure in general

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is kind of the area of expertise I sunk my teeth

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into when I first got in. Powerline inspections

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with manual flight, cell tower inspections doing

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digital twin recreation using autonomous orbits

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around vertical structures. Then I went into

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construction mapping and then I kind of started

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dipping my toes into other areas as well. the

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infrastructure inspection side is what we usually

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push the veterans in our program towards because

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there's a lot of employment and 1099 contract

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opportunities in that area. This is not just

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power line infrastructure, it's all types of

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infrastructure, is it not? Absolutely, you have

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done solar farms, cell towers, construction yards,

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agricultural mapping, spreading and spraying

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with agricultural drones and then with the power

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lines I mean if you go outside you see them far

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and wide they're all over the country so. Yeah

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the agricultural application is very interesting

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too because you know many folks live in the big

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cities but if you drive across this country almost

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in every stage, you're going to be amazed at

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the level of agricultural that we have and how

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knowing what's going on from an aerial point

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of view would really be helpful, wouldn't it?

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Absolutely. I mean, the data and imagery received

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during agricultural mapping mission, especially

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using multi -spectral imagery, can give you pinpoint

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accuracy of where the failure points are in a

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given field. It doesn't matter the size of the

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acreage. We have a growing partnership with Pix4D

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where some of our members are licensed instructors

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for that software. We teach other veterans how

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to use that as well. And then we have a new one

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that's coming up with AgriMo, which is a agricultural

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based software company that's designed just for

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agricultural solutions in the drone space. I

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was looking at some materials and it's also seems

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to me that it's also being widely used in the

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real estate industry and I want you to talk a

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little bit about how it's being used in disaster

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relief as well. Absolutely, so on the real estate

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side there's been kind of hit or miss depending

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on you know either you are involved in real estate

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or you know realtors and they're willing to bring

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you on as a part 107 holder there were some gray

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areas earlier on where real estate agents were

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just buying drones and flying for themselves

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without getting licensed and that caused the

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faa to start pinpointing people and shelling

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out some pretty hefty fines so i don't recommend

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doing that make sure you get licensed it's a

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175 license versus a 12 000 dollar fine so um

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but Great use case there. Even a Marine can figure

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that out and know how that equation works. You

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didn't have to talk to your brother who was Air

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Force vet. He didn't listen to mom. I should

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say he did listen to mom. He didn't join the

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Marines. Yeah, it's written in plaguing crayons.

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Easy to understand. Don't get the $12 ,000 fine.

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Go for the $175 certification. You've mentioned

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it a couple of times and I want to focus on this

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because these aren't your toy hobby Drones line

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of sight, you know, you're gonna crash them every

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time you fly them. These are These are professional

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commercial drones and as you mentioned you need

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a license Tell us about the part 107 licensing

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and your friends at the FAA Perfect. So the part

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107 is the minimum certification to earn any

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type of income when it comes to using drones

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and operating in the national airspace It is

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not that difficult. I tell people if you're okay

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at land nav, you just add a z -axis to land nav

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and now you're in the airspace. If you can read

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a map on 2D, you add some third dimension to

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it, you can figure it out. There's a couple of

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trick questions. It is a federally proctored

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test, but it is not that difficult to learn.

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That is one thing that we provide as well as

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the part 107 instruction through our program.

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But it's the first step into getting into the

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industry. It is far from enough to be considered

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a true subject matter expert or professional

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in this field, but it's a step in the right direction.

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As I mentioned, this area is exploding. I think

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there's some estimates of like there's gonna

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be hundreds of thousands of jobs in this field

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over the next 10 years. pays pretty good, 50

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maybe to 100 grandish depending on who you're

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signing on with or if you're running into contractors.

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There's some real things that may be of interest

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to veterans. You're outdoors working. You don't

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have a boss, you know, hitting the time clock

00:12:58.779 --> 00:13:02.019
over your shoulder maybe the same way. Technology.

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These are all things which sort of veterans will

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gravitate to. But they have to know what they're

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doing and that gets us to vetstodrones .org.

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Tell us what the mission of Vets to Drones is.

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We're introducing veterans into the industry.

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We have five core mission sets. Workforce development

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is first, making sure that the veterans in our

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program understand how to use these drones at

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a professional capacity, whether that's manual

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flight for real estate, video, photography, that

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kind of thing, or doing the full data capture

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and processing, and even crafting a deliverable

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for their clients. After that, it's K through

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12 education. Several of our members are educators

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in the K through 12 realm. Others do after school

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programs, drone building programs. There's even

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a drone soccer league, both the US drone soccer

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league, and there's a Korean derivative as well

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that where they're getting kids into STEM education

00:13:58.059 --> 00:14:00.379
using drone technology, because very exciting.

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Consider it like a quidditch for drones, if you

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will. Then, of course, natural disaster response,

00:14:05.820 --> 00:14:10.059
which we can dive into. One of the concepts in

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the industry is drones for good and disaster

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response is one of the number one areas you can

00:14:14.059 --> 00:14:18.240
use a drone to help people in a variety of ways.

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Then there's conservation. The first project

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I came up with for our program was the Veterans

00:14:24.460 --> 00:14:27.000
in the Forest project. We started down in San

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Diego and we did mapping missions. for reforestation

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and we went all the way up to the Dakotas and

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across to Pennsylvania and across the entire

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country doing these mapping missions and then

00:14:39.639 --> 00:14:41.580
bringing other veterans with us along the way.

00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:43.600
It turned into a cool camping trip where you

00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:46.740
learn how to fly drones all across the US in

00:14:46.740 --> 00:14:49.600
different forested areas. Then our final mission

00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:53.049
is recreational therapy. We do fly days, drone

00:14:53.049 --> 00:14:54.970
demo days, if you will. We travel around the

00:14:54.970 --> 00:14:56.769
country. We get together with a bunch of veterans

00:14:56.769 --> 00:15:00.470
and just fly during the day. It's outdoors. It

00:15:00.470 --> 00:15:02.590
has to be a pretty nice day. It's a sober environment.

00:15:02.629 --> 00:15:04.309
And you're learning a potentially monetizable

00:15:04.309 --> 00:15:08.830
skill. So those are our five core missions in

00:15:08.830 --> 00:15:10.889
the Vets to Drones program. Yeah. And you can

00:15:10.889 --> 00:15:15.350
find more about Vets to Drones by going to vetstodrones

00:15:15.350 --> 00:15:17.970
.org. There's a lot of great information there.

00:15:18.820 --> 00:15:22.240
As you mentioned, this is sort of a nationwide

00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:26.179
program. Not only have you done projects all

00:15:26.179 --> 00:15:28.759
over the country with drones and mapping and

00:15:28.759 --> 00:15:31.620
disaster relief, but I also see that you sort

00:15:31.620 --> 00:15:37.740
of have a regular online program discussion,

00:15:37.940 --> 00:15:40.120
newsletters. Tell us a little bit about how you

00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:46.259
engage veterans on a regular basis. So before

00:15:47.179 --> 00:15:49.500
So the VA newsletter came out and our numbers

00:15:49.500 --> 00:15:52.100
have just exploded. We've had over 100 ,000 people

00:15:52.100 --> 00:15:54.600
reach out in a month and it's just been really

00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:58.039
exciting. Before that, we do a weekly webinar.

00:15:59.039 --> 00:16:01.480
We get online, we talk about the drone industry

00:16:01.480 --> 00:16:04.700
as a whole, and we talk about problems here,

00:16:04.840 --> 00:16:06.620
different events that are coming up, job opportunities

00:16:06.620 --> 00:16:09.299
there, and what's going on in the industry as

00:16:09.299 --> 00:16:16.200
a whole. So since that... insurgents, you know,

00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:19.379
the influx of veterans coming in. We've broken

00:16:19.379 --> 00:16:21.059
the country down into 10 different districts

00:16:21.059 --> 00:16:24.039
and we've began assigning different district

00:16:24.039 --> 00:16:26.519
or regional commanders, if you will, so we can

00:16:26.519 --> 00:16:28.899
better control and understand different areas

00:16:28.899 --> 00:16:31.419
of the country and the needs based in those areas.

00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:34.940
You know, one of the problems of success is you

00:16:34.940 --> 00:16:37.019
got to figure out how to deal with it, right?

00:16:38.659 --> 00:16:42.169
Yes, yes, absolutely. So, but, you know, When

00:16:42.169 --> 00:16:45.350
I founded this program, it wasn't that, you know,

00:16:45.490 --> 00:16:47.070
veterans need help getting into the industry.

00:16:47.230 --> 00:16:49.649
It's more that the industry needs help from the

00:16:49.649 --> 00:16:51.529
veterans that have been doing this type of operation

00:16:51.529 --> 00:16:54.110
for the, for, well, technically the Marine Corps

00:16:54.110 --> 00:16:56.830
had the first drone program in 1989. You know,

00:16:56.830 --> 00:16:58.509
we'll take that claim to faith. There you go.

00:16:58.970 --> 00:17:02.230
We've had this, we have this experience or these

00:17:02.230 --> 00:17:05.190
experiences that add into this industry as a

00:17:05.190 --> 00:17:08.509
whole. And you know, as an American drone industry,

00:17:08.690 --> 00:17:10.730
we're a little bit behind the curve when it comes

00:17:10.730 --> 00:17:14.170
to manufacturing and some of the processes that

00:17:14.170 --> 00:17:18.450
are being implemented across the industry. So

00:17:18.450 --> 00:17:21.349
I know that the industry as a whole can use our

00:17:21.349 --> 00:17:24.569
help and we get the right people with the brightest

00:17:24.569 --> 00:17:27.609
minds and capable veterans in this industry to

00:17:27.609 --> 00:17:31.430
help out. Well, it's both the technical aspect

00:17:31.430 --> 00:17:33.730
of flying these drones, but you mentioned the

00:17:33.730 --> 00:17:36.150
software and the data analysis, right? Because

00:17:36.150 --> 00:17:38.109
all you're doing when you're flying is collecting

00:17:38.109 --> 00:17:43.069
data. How does that work? Is the operator involved

00:17:43.069 --> 00:17:47.069
in the data quality and data manipulation, or

00:17:47.069 --> 00:17:49.809
does that get handed off to a whole other segment

00:17:49.809 --> 00:17:52.279
of the industry? That is a great question. So

00:17:52.279 --> 00:17:55.359
there's different levels to your kind of progression

00:17:55.359 --> 00:17:58.940
in the industry. There's salary -based, W2 -based,

00:17:59.119 --> 00:18:01.420
there's 1099 freelance work, and then starting

00:18:01.420 --> 00:18:04.019
your own full -blown business. If you're doing

00:18:04.019 --> 00:18:06.920
salary -based or W2, usually you're doing just

00:18:06.920 --> 00:18:09.079
data collection, and there's a data processing

00:18:09.079 --> 00:18:12.019
unit at the company that you will upload and

00:18:12.019 --> 00:18:14.880
pass that data along to. When you get into the

00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:17.609
1099 freelance work, you'll start touching the

00:18:17.609 --> 00:18:19.890
data and maneuvering data a little bit more.

00:18:20.190 --> 00:18:22.569
If you own your own small business and is your

00:18:22.569 --> 00:18:25.369
brand out there approaching the clients, you're

00:18:25.369 --> 00:18:27.930
collecting the data, processing the data, and

00:18:27.930 --> 00:18:29.650
producing that deliverable for the client. So

00:18:29.650 --> 00:18:32.309
it's not just one thing or the other. And do

00:18:32.309 --> 00:18:35.529
you find that there are veterans going into,

00:18:35.809 --> 00:18:39.230
hey, now that I've got my experience and sea

00:18:39.230 --> 00:18:42.099
legs here on this, I'm going to go ahead and

00:18:42.099 --> 00:18:44.700
start my own business. I want to be my own entrepreneur

00:18:44.700 --> 00:18:48.220
here in this area. Is that possible? Absolutely.

00:18:48.440 --> 00:18:51.059
I see it all the time. Many folks want to start

00:18:51.059 --> 00:18:52.619
their own drone business and that's sometimes

00:18:52.619 --> 00:18:54.920
how they approach us even before they have their

00:18:54.920 --> 00:18:58.279
part 107. But what I recommend is the crawl walk

00:18:58.279 --> 00:19:00.700
run approach. I tell exactly how I did it. I

00:19:00.700 --> 00:19:03.980
got into the industry, got paid to learn, used

00:19:03.980 --> 00:19:06.759
other people's equipment to learn how to maneuver

00:19:06.759 --> 00:19:11.440
the technology and then once I built my bank

00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:13.619
account up enough, started my own small business

00:19:13.619 --> 00:19:15.720
and was able to pull in different contracts.

00:19:16.039 --> 00:19:19.680
And then I continuously rotated between W2 work

00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:23.460
and 1099 freelance and having my own small business

00:19:23.460 --> 00:19:28.819
all at the same time to kind of get things scalable.

00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:31.940
Yeah, you got to build momentum, build reputation,

00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:36.940
be able to get new experiences to apply to future

00:19:36.940 --> 00:19:39.779
experiences when somebody's got an RFP out or

00:19:39.779 --> 00:19:42.440
asking for, hey, is this something that can be

00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:46.380
done? I think I cut you off earlier. You mentioned

00:19:46.380 --> 00:19:48.480
it again. I want to come back to it. And that's

00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:54.779
the disaster relief aspect of this. It's easy

00:19:54.779 --> 00:20:00.519
to visualize how drones are used for information

00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:03.359
gathering in the field, in the battlefield. Tell

00:20:03.359 --> 00:20:08.140
us how it's used in disaster relief. Perfect.

00:20:08.259 --> 00:20:10.960
So we've responded to a hurricane every year

00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:14.619
since 2020, at least one, right? Some tornadoes,

00:20:14.619 --> 00:20:17.720
stuff like that as well. The first initial use

00:20:17.720 --> 00:20:19.900
case is search and rescue. You have thermal enabled

00:20:19.900 --> 00:20:23.220
drones. It is so much easier to get in the air

00:20:23.220 --> 00:20:25.619
and fly with a thermal enabled drone, especially

00:20:25.619 --> 00:20:27.819
at nighttime, and identify where people may or

00:20:27.819 --> 00:20:32.940
may not be stranded or unreachable. definitely

00:20:32.940 --> 00:20:35.180
unable to see them with the naked eye, right?

00:20:35.940 --> 00:20:39.160
So that is first and foremost the most impactful

00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:42.039
use case. Search and rescue using thermal and

00:20:42.039 --> 00:20:46.019
night vision enabled drones directly after a

00:20:46.019 --> 00:20:49.990
disaster. After that would be moving supplies.

00:20:50.589 --> 00:20:53.170
So these larger drones are able to do deliveries.

00:20:53.750 --> 00:20:55.950
Some of the agricultural drones can carry over

00:20:55.950 --> 00:20:58.630
a hundred pounds and move supplies to and from

00:20:58.630 --> 00:21:01.049
areas that may have been cut off. We saw it during

00:21:01.049 --> 00:21:03.390
Hurricane Ian with Sanibel Island. They were

00:21:03.390 --> 00:21:05.049
using full -blown Chinooks, right? We didn't

00:21:05.049 --> 00:21:07.630
have as many delivery drones back then at our

00:21:07.630 --> 00:21:09.329
disposal. So they were using Chinooks to move

00:21:09.329 --> 00:21:11.250
things back and forth when the islands cut off.

00:21:11.430 --> 00:21:13.920
During Hurricane Helene, there are thousands

00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:15.900
of bridges out. So there was no way for Chinooks

00:21:15.900 --> 00:21:18.660
to go to every single cutoff area in that mountainous

00:21:18.660 --> 00:21:22.140
and highly elevated terrain. So drones were using

00:21:22.140 --> 00:21:25.200
a delivery drone, an agricultural drone that

00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:28.420
was capable of carrying a heavier capacity was

00:21:28.420 --> 00:21:32.700
what was the easiest way to get supplies to and

00:21:32.700 --> 00:21:35.140
from these areas that were cut off. I know we've

00:21:35.140 --> 00:21:38.490
seen some areas were using like a inflatable

00:21:38.490 --> 00:21:41.450
rafts across the river with a rope. That rope

00:21:41.450 --> 00:21:44.750
can get cut and go downriver and all those supplies

00:21:44.750 --> 00:21:47.309
are gone, but a drone is just going to easily

00:21:47.309 --> 00:21:49.670
pick up a hundred pounds to and from every single

00:21:49.670 --> 00:21:53.789
time. They're built that way. And we're talking

00:21:53.789 --> 00:21:58.910
to Chris Lewis who is the founder and grand poobah

00:21:58.910 --> 00:22:04.710
of vetsdrones .org and you're in North Carolina

00:22:04.710 --> 00:22:09.799
so Being able to use drones as a result of the

00:22:09.799 --> 00:22:12.380
damage done by Helene in North Carolina had to

00:22:12.380 --> 00:22:15.079
be really satisfying to be able to help the community,

00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:17.819
which I think is another thing veterans want

00:22:17.819 --> 00:22:21.180
to do. We want to serve. This is kind of an interesting

00:22:21.180 --> 00:22:24.720
way to serve your community, isn't it? Absolutely.

00:22:26.349 --> 00:22:28.509
Born and raised in Louisiana, grew up right outside

00:22:28.509 --> 00:22:31.150
of New Orleans. I moved to North Carolina just

00:22:31.150 --> 00:22:33.589
about 20 years ago now after Hurricane Katrina.

00:22:35.150 --> 00:22:37.250
You thought you got away from it all, didn't

00:22:37.250 --> 00:22:41.150
you? Yeah, you'd think so, yeah. Well, no, I

00:22:41.150 --> 00:22:45.210
chased it, so I don't know. But it's a passion

00:22:45.210 --> 00:22:48.589
project of mine, right? The first year I got

00:22:48.589 --> 00:22:50.769
in the industry, ended up down responding for

00:22:50.769 --> 00:22:54.480
Hurricane Dorian in a commercial. aspect, right?

00:22:54.539 --> 00:22:56.859
Doing the power line inspections and then Hurricane

00:22:56.859 --> 00:22:59.920
Ian and Ida, same thing, commercial aspect with

00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:01.779
a little bit of humanitarian sprinkled in doing

00:23:01.779 --> 00:23:06.420
cell towers, capture down there too. And then

00:23:06.420 --> 00:23:10.180
disaster surveys as well. Post -Helene, we've

00:23:10.180 --> 00:23:12.740
been up there since directly after the storm.

00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:16.009
Since it's in the state, we had a huge Huge support

00:23:16.009 --> 00:23:18.950
network from fellow veterans across the state

00:23:18.950 --> 00:23:21.430
was sent there by the National Guard Association

00:23:21.430 --> 00:23:23.509
The United States Veterans Corps out of Raleigh

00:23:23.509 --> 00:23:26.289
was a massive support network where we landed

00:23:26.289 --> 00:23:28.569
on the ground as the Scouts being the drone pilots,

00:23:28.789 --> 00:23:30.529
right? We're first ones in we have the technology

00:23:30.529 --> 00:23:33.210
we're able to go and live off the land for for

00:23:33.210 --> 00:23:36.880
weeks at a time and then the logistics network

00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:39.839
of veterans just started flooding in. We set

00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:42.259
up shop right just north of Spruce Pine, North

00:23:42.259 --> 00:23:44.539
Carolina which we still have a brick and mortar

00:23:44.539 --> 00:23:48.420
office today and then began once the search and

00:23:48.420 --> 00:23:52.700
rescue operations ended we began mapping the

00:23:52.700 --> 00:23:55.930
area to further assess the the effectiveness

00:23:55.930 --> 00:23:57.769
of the assets that were being deployed by the

00:23:57.769 --> 00:23:59.869
18th Airborne Corps, active duty army on Title

00:23:59.869 --> 00:24:02.150
10 action, the North Carolina National Guard,

00:24:02.329 --> 00:24:04.470
Tennessee National Guard, I believe Kentucky

00:24:04.470 --> 00:24:06.829
National Guard was down there as well, and then

00:24:06.829 --> 00:24:10.049
the massive amount of veteran volunteers that

00:24:10.049 --> 00:24:12.430
showed up at the camp that we had set up just

00:24:12.430 --> 00:24:15.529
north of Spruce Pine on a fellow veteran's property.

00:24:16.730 --> 00:24:19.710
We're using the term drone which is sort of like

00:24:19.710 --> 00:24:22.880
saying Kleenex instead of tissue paper, right?

00:24:23.700 --> 00:24:27.160
There's a zillion different types of configurations

00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:31.839
and models of drones in the commercial space

00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:35.900
when you're doing these different types of inspections.

00:24:38.220 --> 00:24:40.940
How big are these drones? How costly are these

00:24:40.940 --> 00:24:43.980
drones? What capabilities do these drones have?

00:24:44.079 --> 00:24:47.589
Can you fill us in a little, Chris? So some of

00:24:47.589 --> 00:24:50.730
the smaller UAVs, unmanned aerial vehicles, will

00:24:50.730 --> 00:24:53.809
be purely for data collection. You can go into

00:24:53.809 --> 00:24:56.390
some of the larger ones for agricultural and

00:24:56.390 --> 00:25:00.150
delivery operations. The data collection drones

00:25:00.150 --> 00:25:03.970
will cost between $2 ,000 and $40 ,000, really,

00:25:04.009 --> 00:25:06.089
depending on the type of data you're doing and

00:25:06.089 --> 00:25:08.029
collecting. And if it has an interchangeable

00:25:08.029 --> 00:25:10.349
sensor payload on there, those sensors can range

00:25:10.349 --> 00:25:13.150
between $4 ,000 and $12 ,000 just for the sensor

00:25:13.150 --> 00:25:18.339
alone, let alone the drone to fly it. The agricultural

00:25:18.339 --> 00:25:21.059
drones will range between 20 and 60 thousand.

00:25:21.220 --> 00:25:24.319
They're much larger. You need a higher level

00:25:24.319 --> 00:25:28.380
of licensing per state to be able to spread and

00:25:28.380 --> 00:25:31.119
spray different chemicals. So you have to get

00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:35.640
your part 137 and your pesticide spraying license

00:25:35.640 --> 00:25:37.480
for each individual state to be able to get into

00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:40.900
that. Then there's the fixed wing drones that

00:25:40.900 --> 00:25:42.880
are used for long range beyond visual line of

00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:48.740
sight mapping. and corridor mapping based off

00:25:48.740 --> 00:25:52.319
the needs of the client or the use case you're

00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:55.920
diving into. For Helene in particular, we mapped

00:25:55.920 --> 00:25:58.839
along the rivers and the mountains, which is

00:25:58.839 --> 00:26:02.460
very hard to reach areas. We mostly use quadcopters,

00:26:02.619 --> 00:26:04.559
which are the smaller, either Mavic series from

00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:09.359
DJI or the larger M300 series, using a mechanical

00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:13.160
shutter to do photogrammetry missions. That was

00:26:13.160 --> 00:26:15.460
in support of the Appalachian Rebuild Project,

00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:17.960
which is a project we helped establish up there

00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:20.680
in the mountains to raise money and rebuild some

00:26:20.680 --> 00:26:23.339
of the houses and other churches and other infrastructure

00:26:23.339 --> 00:26:26.920
that was damaged during the storm. Doing those

00:26:26.920 --> 00:26:31.740
mapping missions was very interesting and difficult

00:26:31.740 --> 00:26:34.960
because we had to use another layer of technology

00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:37.900
called an RTK, a real -time kinetic base station

00:26:37.900 --> 00:26:40.400
that attached to the drone itself so that the

00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:43.880
drones could fly nap of the earth versus just

00:26:43.880 --> 00:26:48.059
flying at a flat altitude. This enables the drone

00:26:48.059 --> 00:26:50.099
to be able to see where it is on earth so if

00:26:50.099 --> 00:26:53.079
it's flying at 300 feet it will follow the elevation

00:26:53.079 --> 00:26:55.480
as it maps instead of flying straight into the

00:26:55.480 --> 00:27:00.119
side of a mountain. Never good, never good. No,

00:27:00.259 --> 00:27:02.640
I mean we do train veterans and you know not

00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:05.339
all of us eat the purple crayons so they do get

00:27:05.339 --> 00:27:07.779
crashed from time to time. I bet they do, I bet

00:27:07.779 --> 00:27:10.279
they do. As we're coming to the end of the time

00:27:10.279 --> 00:27:15.119
here, again I want to thank Chris Lewis of veteranstodrones

00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:19.960
.org of taking some time and it's really interesting

00:27:19.960 --> 00:27:23.599
to see how this military application is moving

00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:26.559
over to the civilian world and that veterans

00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:29.380
have a role to play. Now I know you got all kinds

00:27:29.380 --> 00:27:32.740
of inquiries because VA put the spotlight on

00:27:32.740 --> 00:27:35.079
you. Are you still interested in having vets

00:27:35.079 --> 00:27:37.789
reach out to you and how do they do that? Oh,

00:27:37.789 --> 00:27:39.829
absolutely. If you go onto the Vets2Drones website,

00:27:39.990 --> 00:27:42.089
you can find out how to reach out. There's a

00:27:42.089 --> 00:27:43.990
sign up form right there that'll get you onto

00:27:43.990 --> 00:27:47.009
one of our onboarding calls. We can start getting

00:27:47.009 --> 00:27:49.750
you into the mix. So we'll be providing that

00:27:49.750 --> 00:27:52.990
part 107 training for free so you can get licensed.

00:27:53.109 --> 00:27:57.190
And then there's a slew of expertise from the

00:27:57.190 --> 00:28:00.029
fellow veterans across the industry and instructors

00:28:00.029 --> 00:28:02.250
that we hire as well to provide instruction.

00:28:02.750 --> 00:28:05.049
Well, we appreciate the time you've given us

00:28:05.049 --> 00:28:08.509
today, Chris, and an interesting look into this

00:28:08.509 --> 00:28:11.650
growing industry of civilian drone operators

00:28:11.650 --> 00:28:14.170
and really sounds like a great opportunity to

00:28:14.170 --> 00:28:17.069
veterans. Thanks for your time today. Thank you,

00:28:17.130 --> 00:28:20.029
Jim. Appreciate you. Military veterans touch

00:28:20.029 --> 00:28:22.349
everyone's life. I'm guessing right now you're

00:28:22.349 --> 00:28:24.990
thinking of a veteran, a close friend, relative.

00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:28.119
Maybe it's you. Even the toughest of us sometimes

00:28:28.119 --> 00:28:30.400
need help but don't know where to turn for support.

00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:32.519
You don't need special training to help a veteran

00:28:32.519 --> 00:28:35.440
in your life. Even small actions can make a world

00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:37.779
of difference. If you know a veteran in crisis,

00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:41.740
please call the Veterans Crisis Line 800 -273

00:28:41.740 --> 00:28:47.319
-8255. 800 -273 -8255. A message from the U .S.

00:28:47.660 --> 00:28:49.599
Department of Veterans Affairs. If you have a

00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:51.920
VA claim denied by the Board of Veterans' Appeals,

00:28:52.140 --> 00:28:55.039
contact Legal Help for Veterans at 1 -800 -693

00:28:55.039 --> 00:28:58.759
-4800. They're experts in handling cases before

00:28:58.759 --> 00:29:00.880
the U .S. Court of Appeals for Veterans' claims.

00:29:01.180 --> 00:29:05.549
Their number again, 1 -800 -693 -4800. We want

00:29:05.549 --> 00:29:09.769
to welcome to Veterans Radio today Rick Berman

00:29:09.769 --> 00:29:13.509
who is the executive director of the Ram Veterans

00:29:13.509 --> 00:29:17.069
Foundation and the Mercer Family Foundation and

00:29:17.069 --> 00:29:20.109
they have something called charitiesforvets .org

00:29:20.109 --> 00:29:23.029
that Rick's going to tell us about that I think

00:29:23.029 --> 00:29:25.269
is really important for people to know about.

00:29:25.430 --> 00:29:28.730
Rick, welcome to Veterans Radio. Thanks so much

00:29:28.730 --> 00:29:32.869
Jim. So this started, this Charities for Vets,

00:29:32.869 --> 00:29:39.569
I think started in 2022. Tell us as a veterans

00:29:39.569 --> 00:29:43.089
advocate, kind of how you got into this and what

00:29:43.089 --> 00:29:48.430
problem you saw needed to be solved. Well, I've

00:29:48.430 --> 00:29:52.470
had a long history of advocacy on behalf of private

00:29:52.470 --> 00:29:57.440
interests ranging from issues in the environmental

00:29:57.440 --> 00:30:03.559
area, labor area, financial area, and basically

00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:07.059
what I was doing on behalf of clients is correcting

00:30:07.059 --> 00:30:10.660
the record in terms of public opinion. You know,

00:30:10.660 --> 00:30:12.460
there's a lot of groups out there that have an

00:30:12.460 --> 00:30:15.420
agenda and they say things that are untrue or

00:30:15.420 --> 00:30:19.000
they take facts and they twist them. And so for

00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:23.339
very many years, my job was to, as I say, correct

00:30:23.339 --> 00:30:26.839
the record and then to put out information for

00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:31.400
the public where they would say, oh, you know,

00:30:31.400 --> 00:30:33.359
I never thought of it that way before. I would

00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:36.279
give people information that made them think

00:30:36.279 --> 00:30:41.799
twice. And I retired from my business two and

00:30:41.799 --> 00:30:45.440
a half years ago. And about the time I was retiring

00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:47.859
from my business, I was familiar with these groups,

00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:51.420
these active groups that are always putting out

00:30:51.420 --> 00:30:54.029
information in there. and they're collecting

00:30:54.029 --> 00:30:58.130
a lot of money, they're scaring people with all

00:30:58.130 --> 00:31:01.829
sorts of doom and gloom and you know contribute

00:31:01.829 --> 00:31:04.349
to our organization and we'll stop all that from

00:31:04.349 --> 00:31:09.549
happening. And so one day I was just watching

00:31:09.549 --> 00:31:13.630
television and I saw a commercial for veterans

00:31:13.630 --> 00:31:18.369
or I should say for donors, a commercial for

00:31:18.369 --> 00:31:20.630
donors to contribute and they were going to help

00:31:20.630 --> 00:31:24.140
veterans. And I thought to myself, you know,

00:31:24.140 --> 00:31:26.539
I've seen so many of these groups that over promise

00:31:26.539 --> 00:31:29.339
and under deliver. I just wondered if that was

00:31:29.339 --> 00:31:32.160
going on in the veteran space. And so I just

00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:34.380
did some investigation as I had done many times

00:31:34.380 --> 00:31:37.079
before, you know, you look up tax returns, etc.

00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:40.579
And I did it for the big organizations. And I

00:31:40.579 --> 00:31:43.299
thought, my God, there's a lot of people here

00:31:43.299 --> 00:31:45.720
who are contributing to organizations and they

00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:48.819
have no idea what people are doing with their

00:31:48.819 --> 00:31:53.380
money. And Rebecca Mercer is a friend of mine

00:31:53.380 --> 00:31:55.619
and I and she's a great philanthropist and I

00:31:55.619 --> 00:31:58.059
went to see Rebecca and I said you ever heard

00:31:58.059 --> 00:32:01.319
of this this problem and she said no and I said

00:32:01.319 --> 00:32:04.359
you got any interest and she said well as a matter

00:32:04.359 --> 00:32:07.799
of fact I have a great uncle who was killed in

00:32:07.799 --> 00:32:11.500
France fighting the Nazis and I've always had

00:32:11.500 --> 00:32:13.980
a warm spot in my heart for veterans and she

00:32:13.980 --> 00:32:15.619
said you know if we can do something about that

00:32:15.619 --> 00:32:20.529
let's do it so between Rebecca and I We put up

00:32:20.529 --> 00:32:22.829
a million dollars to start this organization

00:32:22.829 --> 00:32:25.029
and that meant we had to do the research. We

00:32:25.029 --> 00:32:29.250
had to put out information that would create

00:32:29.250 --> 00:32:33.289
an awareness among people. We got 60 billboards

00:32:33.289 --> 00:32:36.670
when we started out. We put them up in Times

00:32:36.670 --> 00:32:40.829
Square and around the country and created some

00:32:40.829 --> 00:32:43.250
videos and of course using the power of the internet

00:32:43.250 --> 00:32:48.849
gave us an appeal to a lot of people. at the

00:32:48.849 --> 00:32:51.750
end of the day we started to raise more money

00:32:51.750 --> 00:32:56.009
and our goal was number one to stay focused on

00:32:56.009 --> 00:32:58.710
veterans who were not going to have an organization

00:32:58.710 --> 00:33:02.609
that rated charities from you know from children's

00:33:02.609 --> 00:33:05.650
health to environment issues etc. We're just

00:33:05.650 --> 00:33:07.210
going to stay on veterans and I was only going

00:33:07.210 --> 00:33:09.950
to do large veteran charities. I mean there's

00:33:09.950 --> 00:33:11.529
a lot of them out there as you know you know

00:33:11.529 --> 00:33:13.769
you go from wounded warriors to tunnel to towers

00:33:13.769 --> 00:33:15.670
and some of these other high -profile groups

00:33:16.119 --> 00:33:18.420
and I said let's just do a hundred of these things

00:33:18.420 --> 00:33:20.579
we'll do the hundred biggest ones we can find

00:33:20.579 --> 00:33:25.859
and we'll put them into categories we're going

00:33:25.859 --> 00:33:28.359
to be very straightforward about it we'll say

00:33:28.359 --> 00:33:31.140
you know we're going to recommend some then there'll

00:33:31.140 --> 00:33:33.319
be some that are highly recommended because they're

00:33:33.319 --> 00:33:34.900
really good and then we're going to we're going

00:33:34.900 --> 00:33:37.119
to say hey there's a bunch of charities out there

00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:38.660
that I wouldn't give my money to and neither

00:33:38.660 --> 00:33:42.390
should you And I think that's the the the thing

00:33:42.390 --> 00:33:45.250
that hooked me in finding out about charities

00:33:45.250 --> 00:33:49.869
for vets org is like Yeah, there's and you hear

00:33:49.869 --> 00:33:52.470
about it every year every state, you know, there

00:33:52.470 --> 00:33:57.349
are there are scams targeted not only to veterans

00:33:57.349 --> 00:34:01.150
but to supporters of veterans and you go like

00:34:01.150 --> 00:34:05.210
why are you wasting your money on that scam your

00:34:05.210 --> 00:34:08.099
hearts in the right spot your but your pocketbook

00:34:08.099 --> 00:34:11.139
isn't and so that's really what you were drilling

00:34:11.139 --> 00:34:14.659
in on wasn't it? Yeah and of course I wanted

00:34:14.659 --> 00:34:17.440
people to stop giving to those to those groups

00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:19.699
but on the other hand I didn't want to just sit

00:34:19.699 --> 00:34:23.519
on their checkbook so that's why I said I don't

00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:25.579
want you to stop giving I just want you to redirect

00:34:25.579 --> 00:34:29.940
your giving and that's why we have the charities

00:34:29.940 --> 00:34:31.699
you know about half of the charities that we

00:34:31.699 --> 00:34:34.039
rate are in our recommended or highly recommended

00:34:34.039 --> 00:34:37.980
category 60 % I would say are are are positive

00:34:37.980 --> 00:34:41.739
but 40 % of the hundred are in the not recommended

00:34:41.739 --> 00:34:44.519
category and and and that doesn't mean that a

00:34:44.519 --> 00:34:46.659
charity that's not recommended on our list doesn't

00:34:46.659 --> 00:34:49.679
do any good work but they typically don't do

00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:52.900
it as efficiently as they should there's a you

00:34:52.900 --> 00:34:55.360
know scams are one thing and there as you say

00:34:55.360 --> 00:34:58.320
there's plenty of it it's hard to see a scam

00:34:58.320 --> 00:35:02.079
though especially if the smaller one, because

00:35:02.079 --> 00:35:04.280
reporting is not that great. The Federal Trade

00:35:04.280 --> 00:35:06.739
Commission doesn't do a good job. The Internal

00:35:06.739 --> 00:35:10.940
Revenue Service does a terrible job. So at the

00:35:10.940 --> 00:35:15.820
end of the day, what we end up doing is we say

00:35:15.820 --> 00:35:18.800
to people, look, this charity here, maybe it

00:35:18.800 --> 00:35:23.820
has 90 % over it. Well, so 10 % of their money

00:35:23.820 --> 00:35:26.119
is going to good things. And if you ask them,

00:35:26.139 --> 00:35:28.159
well, what have you done? they'll give you the

00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:30.980
10 % and you know here's what we did and it sounds

00:35:30.980 --> 00:35:34.280
good until you find out that that they're wasting

00:35:34.280 --> 00:35:36.420
a whole lot of money on their way to that to

00:35:36.420 --> 00:35:39.579
that victory if you will yeah you you've got

00:35:39.579 --> 00:35:43.400
two issues here going um in trying to rate folks

00:35:43.400 --> 00:35:46.780
right there's sort of the are they are they efficient

00:35:46.780 --> 00:35:52.519
um are their administrative costs low and are

00:35:52.519 --> 00:35:55.519
they effective yeah which which do you look at

00:35:55.519 --> 00:35:57.960
or do you look at them both But that's a great

00:35:57.960 --> 00:36:02.280
question. You're very prophetic about our work.

00:36:02.940 --> 00:36:06.519
Here's what we started out with. Efficiency is

00:36:06.519 --> 00:36:08.780
a lot easier because you're really looking at

00:36:08.780 --> 00:36:14.079
math. I look at state fundraising reports. I

00:36:14.079 --> 00:36:17.519
look at their IRS, of course, is where most of

00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:20.860
the information comes from. and I can tell you

00:36:20.860 --> 00:36:23.559
you know because two and two is four all day

00:36:23.559 --> 00:36:27.099
long and you just look at it you can add stuff

00:36:27.099 --> 00:36:30.800
up and and you know people people come back to

00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:32.739
me and they say how can you do that you know

00:36:32.739 --> 00:36:34.960
how can you rate us that way and I say it's just

00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:38.260
math and um and I'm not picking winners and losers

00:36:38.260 --> 00:36:40.880
I'm just calling balls and strikes if you will

00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:42.940
and you're either over the plate or you're not

00:36:42.940 --> 00:36:48.300
so that's the efficiency that you mentioned effectiveness

00:36:48.300 --> 00:36:52.199
Jim is very, very difficult because there's no

00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:54.639
way to have a simple template like you could

00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:57.519
have for efficiency. You can't just look at someone's

00:36:57.519 --> 00:37:01.280
IRS form and see if they're effective. So in

00:37:01.280 --> 00:37:03.880
the latter part of this year, for the first time,

00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:08.300
I'm going to put my toe in the water on effectiveness.

00:37:09.440 --> 00:37:13.840
And we are going to start coming up. I have some

00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:15.739
ideas. I don't want to announce them as such

00:37:15.739 --> 00:37:18.849
because we may change them along the way. but

00:37:18.849 --> 00:37:21.550
we are going to get into the effectiveness business.

00:37:22.230 --> 00:37:26.269
Well, I think that's excellent. The efficiency

00:37:26.269 --> 00:37:29.670
math, you know, if you will, and you're a guy

00:37:29.670 --> 00:37:33.210
familiar and comfortable with numbers, is sort

00:37:33.210 --> 00:37:35.449
of black and white. And as you say, they can

00:37:35.449 --> 00:37:37.230
call you up and complain about the rating, but

00:37:37.230 --> 00:37:40.210
you say, look at your numbers, it's math. And

00:37:40.210 --> 00:37:42.530
you're getting that from what I'll call open

00:37:42.530 --> 00:37:48.750
sources, right? Right. There are IRS form 990

00:37:48.750 --> 00:37:51.570
and this is their tax returns and maybe things

00:37:51.570 --> 00:37:54.010
on their own website that they publish, maybe

00:37:54.010 --> 00:37:56.489
things that they report to the state attorney

00:37:56.489 --> 00:37:59.590
generals. So that's all open source. They can't

00:37:59.590 --> 00:38:04.469
be very critical to the organization about that,

00:38:04.489 --> 00:38:07.989
I suspect. Or once they are critical, they quickly

00:38:07.989 --> 00:38:10.349
back away. Is that what you've been experiencing?

00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:14.360
Yeah, and of course you can still game the system

00:38:14.360 --> 00:38:16.920
if you're looking to do that if you're the charity

00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:20.360
But we look a little tighter at it for instance

00:38:20.360 --> 00:38:22.260
There's something called joint cost accounting

00:38:22.260 --> 00:38:25.559
where people are able to hide their overhead

00:38:25.559 --> 00:38:29.380
By saying that what they're doing is educating

00:38:29.380 --> 00:38:33.099
people And without getting into the weeds on

00:38:33.099 --> 00:38:37.760
it We don't allow people to spend very much money

00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:40.000
on what we'll call joint cost accounting where

00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:42.820
they're hiding their overhead there's always

00:38:42.820 --> 00:38:46.280
a little bit of it that goes on but if you're

00:38:46.280 --> 00:38:49.019
if you're over the line as far as we're concerned

00:38:49.019 --> 00:38:52.320
and we do draw some lines as to how much is too

00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:56.500
much then we will negatively it will downgrade

00:38:56.500 --> 00:39:01.400
organizations so yes it's just math I went through

00:39:01.400 --> 00:39:04.940
the website and I do see that you draw some lines

00:39:04.940 --> 00:39:07.789
about what how much should or shouldn't be spent

00:39:07.789 --> 00:39:11.650
on administrative overhead like that sort of

00:39:11.650 --> 00:39:13.909
thing. Can you talk a little bit about the lines

00:39:13.909 --> 00:39:17.929
that you draw? Yeah. Well, for instance, if you

00:39:17.929 --> 00:39:20.969
on fundraising, if the fundraiser is making more

00:39:20.969 --> 00:39:24.210
money than the charity is off of a particular

00:39:24.210 --> 00:39:27.670
campaign, we say they're not recommended. If

00:39:27.670 --> 00:39:32.980
you've got more than 25 % of your budget Devoted

00:39:32.980 --> 00:39:35.760
to overhead more than 25 percent. We say you're

00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:40.079
not recommending And and mind you there are charities

00:39:40.079 --> 00:39:42.940
out there where their overhead is under 10 percent

00:39:42.940 --> 00:39:45.599
And so when I see a charity that's got 50 percent

00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:48.059
overhead or 60 percent over it I think you know

00:39:48.059 --> 00:39:50.139
There's no reason that this thing can't be managed

00:39:50.139 --> 00:39:53.340
properly and and again, it's not necessarily

00:39:53.340 --> 00:39:55.719
a scam But there is a lot of people who are running

00:39:55.719 --> 00:39:57.679
these organizations who shouldn't be running

00:39:57.679 --> 00:40:02.059
a convenience store They're just not that good

00:40:02.059 --> 00:40:06.199
at running a business. And we know that's true

00:40:06.199 --> 00:40:08.320
about all sorts of institutions where people

00:40:08.320 --> 00:40:11.139
are managing more money than they have any knowledge

00:40:11.139 --> 00:40:15.619
of managing. So the fundraising, the 25 % overhead,

00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:18.300
maybe you have too much money in the bank. People

00:40:18.300 --> 00:40:21.619
are giving you money and you're keeping it in

00:40:21.619 --> 00:40:25.699
reserve for some rainy day. That's what I heard

00:40:25.699 --> 00:40:28.019
somebody tell me once in the early stages of

00:40:28.019 --> 00:40:31.449
this. you know he had five times his budget in

00:40:31.449 --> 00:40:33.429
reserves and I said why do you have so much money

00:40:33.429 --> 00:40:35.769
there people are giving you the money to spend

00:40:35.769 --> 00:40:37.530
on veterans and you're putting it in the bank

00:40:37.530 --> 00:40:40.309
so to speak and he says it's a rainy day it's

00:40:40.309 --> 00:40:42.650
a rainy day fund he said and I said well you

00:40:42.650 --> 00:40:45.530
know for some of these disabled veterans it's

00:40:45.530 --> 00:40:48.929
raining every day so how about spending the money

00:40:48.929 --> 00:40:51.809
and so if you've got more than three years worth

00:40:51.809 --> 00:40:54.570
of your budget and reserve we will downgrade

00:40:54.570 --> 00:40:58.300
people for that. And that may be, I just hinted

00:40:58.300 --> 00:41:00.300
at something that may be the most important fact.

00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:03.500
If you look at other rating agencies, there are

00:41:03.500 --> 00:41:05.400
some other rating agencies out there that rate

00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:07.260
charities of every kind. Now, of course, we're

00:41:07.260 --> 00:41:09.199
just doing veterans, and we're only doing 100

00:41:09.199 --> 00:41:12.880
veterans, veteran charities. But what they do

00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:17.059
is that they grade these organizations, whatever

00:41:17.059 --> 00:41:19.579
kind of organization they're grading. there's

00:41:19.579 --> 00:41:23.559
an averaging component to their algorithm. So

00:41:23.559 --> 00:41:25.739
if you're good in one area and you're bad in

00:41:25.739 --> 00:41:30.480
another area, they average it out by some formula

00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:32.239
that they have and so now you get a middling

00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:35.039
grade. You got an A here and an F here so you

00:41:35.039 --> 00:41:37.960
get a C. Now you're sounding like my high school

00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:41.579
geometry teacher here. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So,

00:41:41.699 --> 00:41:44.800
I mean, and everybody's familiar with that. You

00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:46.519
know, you do well one area, you do well another.

00:41:46.840 --> 00:41:51.079
Well, with us, we decided that that wasn't the

00:41:51.079 --> 00:41:55.719
way to go. If we had these main factors, and

00:41:55.719 --> 00:41:58.559
if somebody's got excessive overhead, but they're

00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:01.699
good at all these other areas, we're not going

00:42:01.699 --> 00:42:03.039
to average it. We're going to say if you got

00:42:03.039 --> 00:42:06.280
excessive overhead, you fail. And so we have

00:42:06.280 --> 00:42:08.780
a pass fail system for every one of the factors

00:42:08.780 --> 00:42:11.320
that we use in our judging. And if you fail in

00:42:11.320 --> 00:42:14.340
any one of those factors, you hit the not recommended

00:42:14.340 --> 00:42:17.769
category. So we're talking to Rick Berman who's

00:42:17.769 --> 00:42:21.889
the executive director For Ram Veterans Foundation,

00:42:22.050 --> 00:42:24.690
which is spearheading with the Mercer Family

00:42:24.690 --> 00:42:28.670
Foundation a interesting website called charities

00:42:28.670 --> 00:42:32.989
for vets org that ranks the top hundred veteran

00:42:32.989 --> 00:42:37.070
focused charities in the country and One of the

00:42:37.070 --> 00:42:39.409
things that I also liked not only is that you

00:42:39.409 --> 00:42:42.710
draw lines but you're willing to say, you know,

00:42:42.849 --> 00:42:45.150
name names if you will. Hey, here's the recommended,

00:42:45.329 --> 00:42:47.590
here's the not recommended. You actually have

00:42:47.590 --> 00:42:50.130
a screen that says examples of waste and abuse.

00:42:51.809 --> 00:42:54.469
And when I'm looking at these, one of the things

00:42:54.469 --> 00:42:57.489
that sort of comes to my mind is there's a lot

00:42:57.489 --> 00:43:01.670
of similarity in names or confusing names where

00:43:01.670 --> 00:43:05.130
I think I'm doing a national organization, maybe,

00:43:05.309 --> 00:43:08.730
you know, one of the VSOs, Veterans Service Organizations,

00:43:08.969 --> 00:43:11.619
but I'm thinking, I bet there's somebody else.

00:43:12.139 --> 00:43:16.739
Have you bumped into that that some of this is

00:43:16.739 --> 00:43:20.019
name confusion as to which charity I'm giving

00:43:20.019 --> 00:43:23.900
to? You know absolutely and you know a lot of

00:43:23.900 --> 00:43:26.900
the people who give the charities are older people

00:43:26.900 --> 00:43:31.440
and it's easy for them to get screwed up by thinking

00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:32.900
that they're given to one and they're actually

00:43:32.900 --> 00:43:37.719
given to another. The brand confusion is rampant

00:43:37.719 --> 00:43:41.280
and actually you can see some of that on our

00:43:41.280 --> 00:43:44.980
website but you know I once looked up this is

00:43:44.980 --> 00:43:48.760
a year or two ago I once looked up how many organizations

00:43:48.760 --> 00:43:51.920
had wounded warriors in their name and there

00:43:51.920 --> 00:43:55.559
were 57 organizations that had wounded warriors

00:43:55.559 --> 00:43:59.059
in their name could be wounded warriors of Detroit

00:43:59.059 --> 00:44:03.320
or a lot of variations so sure you're right you're

00:44:03.320 --> 00:44:06.909
right on that one Jim No, I was searching for

00:44:06.909 --> 00:44:09.610
the right word, but you used it. It's brand confusion.

00:44:10.889 --> 00:44:14.610
Geez, is the Disabled Veterans National Foundation,

00:44:14.710 --> 00:44:17.349
which is on your list of examples of waste and

00:44:17.349 --> 00:44:20.530
abuse, is that DAV? I read it again. I said,

00:44:20.530 --> 00:44:25.849
well, that's not DAV. I mean, it's easy for even

00:44:25.849 --> 00:44:28.250
those paying attention to get confused, the Purple

00:44:28.250 --> 00:44:31.429
Heart Veterans Foundation. I don't think that's

00:44:31.429 --> 00:44:34.340
the... Purple Heart Legion. I think that's something

00:44:34.340 --> 00:44:39.739
else, you know, so You've got done a hundred

00:44:39.739 --> 00:44:44.099
of these and there are probably thousands because

00:44:44.099 --> 00:44:48.539
Your criteria was what two million in or something

00:44:48.539 --> 00:44:51.940
in in annual giving or receiving it's now three

00:44:51.940 --> 00:44:55.860
million three million or more Okay There's so

00:44:55.860 --> 00:45:02.119
many small ones. It's ridiculous. Yeah What advice

00:45:02.119 --> 00:45:05.079
do you give folks who go, well, I don't see this

00:45:05.079 --> 00:45:07.719
on your list, but that doesn't mean anything

00:45:07.719 --> 00:45:09.639
other than it's not big enough to get rated.

00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:13.440
That's right. And I might have even missed some

00:45:13.440 --> 00:45:15.119
big ones. You know, every so often we'll find

00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:18.920
one that we didn't know existed. But that's the

00:45:18.920 --> 00:45:21.800
problem. Someone told me once they had done the

00:45:21.800 --> 00:45:24.099
research and that there were 45 ,000 veterans

00:45:24.099 --> 00:45:26.579
organizations. or organization with veterans

00:45:26.579 --> 00:45:28.980
in their name that doesn't surprise me that that

00:45:28.980 --> 00:45:31.880
number shocking number but i go yeah that's probably

00:45:31.880 --> 00:45:35.599
yeah and a lot of where these mom and pop operations

00:45:35.599 --> 00:45:38.800
were and people with a good heart i'm not saying

00:45:38.800 --> 00:45:41.679
everybody does this you know for for criminal

00:45:41.679 --> 00:45:44.440
reasons uh people with a good heart they start

00:45:44.440 --> 00:45:46.679
one of these in fact i get a lot of people from

00:45:46.679 --> 00:45:49.739
these small ones who ask if we would please rate

00:45:49.739 --> 00:45:51.820
them because we're doing a lot of advertising

00:45:51.820 --> 00:45:54.670
and they'd like to be on our website And I tell

00:45:54.670 --> 00:45:57.789
them, look, I don't have the bandwidth to go

00:45:57.789 --> 00:46:00.389
after all these groups. I want to just go after

00:46:00.389 --> 00:46:02.550
the ones that are big enough to be making a difference.

00:46:04.050 --> 00:46:05.909
Well, and I see some of these that you've rated

00:46:05.909 --> 00:46:09.489
combined, and it's probably a marketer's dream,

00:46:09.789 --> 00:46:13.510
right? Let's combine veterans and dogs. Everybody

00:46:13.510 --> 00:46:15.750
likes that. And you've got a few of those like,

00:46:15.949 --> 00:46:18.889
hey, they're... the lines we draw that some of

00:46:18.889 --> 00:46:21.369
these aren't good because they've got too much

00:46:21.369 --> 00:46:24.369
spend too much here or there notwithstanding

00:46:24.369 --> 00:46:27.409
they're plucking two of your heartstrings dogs

00:46:27.409 --> 00:46:30.269
and veterans you got it yeah there are there

00:46:30.269 --> 00:46:32.469
are several service dogs that organizations for

00:46:32.469 --> 00:46:35.989
veterans yep did as you went through and you

00:46:35.989 --> 00:46:39.210
do this and continue to refine it what has surprised

00:46:39.210 --> 00:46:44.679
you um Well, in a positive way, one of the things

00:46:44.679 --> 00:46:46.920
that surprised me is that some people have called

00:46:46.920 --> 00:46:49.280
me up after we, you know, they discovered that

00:46:49.280 --> 00:46:51.360
we're rating them and we're rating them poorly.

00:46:53.059 --> 00:46:55.519
They've said, okay, we understand why you rated

00:46:55.519 --> 00:46:59.179
us poorly. And we think that we could probably

00:46:59.179 --> 00:47:02.179
change the way we do business. And we'd like

00:47:02.179 --> 00:47:04.599
to get into a different category of, you know,

00:47:04.659 --> 00:47:07.199
recommended and I say, you know, one of the things

00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:09.340
that we have, it's a signature of our group is

00:47:09.340 --> 00:47:13.030
that I will take any appeal. any reasonable appeal

00:47:13.030 --> 00:47:17.949
and if you make that case we will in fact change

00:47:17.949 --> 00:47:21.050
the ratings and so I've actually done that two

00:47:21.050 --> 00:47:24.929
or three times. So that was a good thing. It

00:47:24.929 --> 00:47:27.010
surprised me that people were willing and supposed

00:47:27.010 --> 00:47:30.590
to just getting nasty about it. The flip side

00:47:30.590 --> 00:47:33.829
of that is that there have been some very nasty

00:47:33.829 --> 00:47:36.469
people who have been angry over the fact that

00:47:36.469 --> 00:47:39.599
we rated them the way that we did. And I said,

00:47:39.699 --> 00:47:41.539
look, you know, that goes back to what we talked

00:47:41.539 --> 00:47:43.159
about earlier. I said, look, it's just math.

00:47:43.579 --> 00:47:45.340
And you know, they'll say, well, you know, you're

00:47:45.340 --> 00:47:47.099
looking at it incorrectly. There are some people

00:47:47.099 --> 00:47:50.119
who say overhead should not be a factor. I say,

00:47:50.260 --> 00:47:52.699
well, you can make that case if you want to.

00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:54.900
But if you're wasting money, that's the first

00:47:54.900 --> 00:47:57.559
place I'm going to see it is overhead. And if

00:47:57.559 --> 00:47:59.300
you want to make the case, you know, someone

00:47:59.300 --> 00:48:01.719
will say, well, we have to pay excessive salaries

00:48:01.719 --> 00:48:04.719
to get good people. I say, That's not the case.

00:48:05.099 --> 00:48:08.119
I mean, I'm doing this for free. I don't, I don't

00:48:08.119 --> 00:48:10.820
take a salary. There are people who will do that.

00:48:10.840 --> 00:48:12.599
And then there are people who are getting $500

00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:15.940
,000 a year. Well, if you're getting, you know,

00:48:16.099 --> 00:48:18.159
six figure salaries, you're going to have high

00:48:18.159 --> 00:48:20.579
overhead unless you've got really high revenues.

00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:23.559
And if you think the only way you can run this

00:48:23.559 --> 00:48:26.500
is with very expensive staff, well, it's your

00:48:26.500 --> 00:48:29.380
choice, but I'm going to report it as such. yeah

00:48:29.380 --> 00:48:33.780
absolutely and particularly all of those small

00:48:33.780 --> 00:48:38.460
charities in that 45 ,000 number or so there's

00:48:38.460 --> 00:48:41.039
plenty of them that are 100 % volunteer that

00:48:41.039 --> 00:48:43.719
that you know every I don't they don't collect

00:48:43.719 --> 00:48:47.440
more than 40 50 100 200 grand a year but it all

00:48:47.440 --> 00:48:49.480
goes right back out the door so when you get

00:48:49.480 --> 00:48:51.800
just because you got big doesn't mean you get

00:48:51.800 --> 00:48:56.139
to be live lavishly right right I mean you know

00:48:56.139 --> 00:48:59.320
fancy Office buildings. I mean there's a lot

00:48:59.320 --> 00:49:03.139
of ways to spend money So Rick as you go forward

00:49:03.139 --> 00:49:05.480
here, and you're kind of gonna dip your toe into

00:49:05.480 --> 00:49:07.900
effectiveness That'll be an interesting challenge

00:49:07.900 --> 00:49:11.300
and and when you get that up and running We'd

00:49:11.300 --> 00:49:14.860
love to talk to you about that sort of How you

00:49:14.860 --> 00:49:18.219
set the bar how he may make some of these determinations,

00:49:18.280 --> 00:49:21.800
but as we wrap up here What advice would you

00:49:21.800 --> 00:49:25.059
give? not only veterans but friends of veterans

00:49:25.059 --> 00:49:28.039
who are donating to these causes what advice

00:49:28.039 --> 00:49:29.920
would you give them before they write that check?

00:49:31.559 --> 00:49:34.119
Well of course not everybody has the capacity

00:49:34.119 --> 00:49:36.840
to do their own research so I would like them

00:49:36.840 --> 00:49:39.940
to say at least if they're thinking of a charity

00:49:39.940 --> 00:49:43.559
that we are already grading to just go to our

00:49:43.559 --> 00:49:45.619
website you know that's another that's another

00:49:45.619 --> 00:49:47.619
distinguishing feature is that our ratings are

00:49:47.619 --> 00:49:50.340
for free there's no fee there's no subscription

00:49:50.719 --> 00:49:52.780
you just get on the internet and there it is

00:49:52.780 --> 00:49:55.880
and we're updating it on a very regular basis

00:49:55.880 --> 00:49:59.420
so i would say go to our website and see if it's

00:49:59.420 --> 00:50:02.460
there now some people have called me up or emailed

00:50:02.460 --> 00:50:05.099
me and say could you please rate this charity

00:50:05.099 --> 00:50:08.719
for me and it's not on our list and i typically

00:50:08.719 --> 00:50:11.980
say look here's how you rate it you know and

00:50:11.980 --> 00:50:13.980
and and sometimes if i've got nothing better

00:50:13.980 --> 00:50:16.320
to do with my time which is not too often i will

00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:18.480
look at the charity just do a superficial rating

00:50:19.050 --> 00:50:20.789
and I'll just go back and say well they look

00:50:20.789 --> 00:50:24.250
like they're pretty decent people or otherwise

00:50:24.250 --> 00:50:27.989
so there's not much I can tell people I'm not

00:50:27.989 --> 00:50:30.730
going to tell people to go and do their own research

00:50:30.730 --> 00:50:33.909
on the you know with tax returns because if you

00:50:33.909 --> 00:50:35.969
can read a tax return you don't need my advice

00:50:35.969 --> 00:50:41.050
to tell you to go find it no it for most people

00:50:41.050 --> 00:50:43.590
that we don't have the time we don't have the

00:50:43.590 --> 00:50:48.199
expertise the patience to do all the homework.

00:50:48.320 --> 00:50:52.780
That's why charitiesforvets .org is so important.

00:50:52.780 --> 00:50:56.059
I want to thank Rick Berman for his time today

00:50:56.059 --> 00:50:58.460
and for the good work that Ram Veterans Foundation

00:50:58.460 --> 00:51:01.320
and Mercer Family Foundation are funding through

00:51:01.320 --> 00:51:03.980
this effort. Rick, I really appreciate you explaining

00:51:03.980 --> 00:51:06.619
this to us today. Jim, it's been my pleasure.

00:51:07.659 --> 00:51:10.820
So as to tell you, I think after that interview

00:51:10.820 --> 00:51:15.199
that veteransradio .org is a 501c3 nonprofit.

00:51:15.760 --> 00:51:20.179
We don't have any big paid hosts like myself

00:51:20.179 --> 00:51:23.619
or Dale and the team is primarily all veterans

00:51:23.619 --> 00:51:27.780
and all volunteers. So if you want to support

00:51:27.780 --> 00:51:32.599
our efforts here at Veterans Radio, you can feel

00:51:32.599 --> 00:51:36.019
comforted that the money's really going to the

00:51:36.019 --> 00:51:38.679
mission and the mission is to be the voice of

00:51:38.679 --> 00:51:43.570
American veterans, tell important stories. Get

00:51:43.570 --> 00:51:47.150
forward interesting ideas those sorts of things

00:51:47.150 --> 00:51:49.409
that you've been listening to here on Veterans

00:51:49.409 --> 00:51:52.969
Radio You know, we have some great local sponsors

00:51:52.969 --> 00:51:57.989
who also meet the test of being good charitable

00:51:57.989 --> 00:52:01.769
organizations like the Vietnam Veterans of America

00:52:01.769 --> 00:52:07.510
Charles S Kettles chapter 310 in Ann Arbor VFW,

00:52:07.650 --> 00:52:12.309
Graf O 'Hare Post 423, the American Legion, Erwin

00:52:12.309 --> 00:52:17.550
Preskin Post 46, along with those like the National

00:52:17.550 --> 00:52:22.110
Veterans, Vietnam Veterans of America, NVBDC.

00:52:23.250 --> 00:52:26.710
Those are organizations, again, charities that

00:52:26.710 --> 00:52:29.150
you can count on, charities you can rely on,

00:52:29.510 --> 00:52:32.469
and we'd encourage you to look at them. But we

00:52:32.469 --> 00:52:37.159
also have had a lot of good sponsors who are

00:52:37.159 --> 00:52:39.599
not in the charity category. Unfortunately, they

00:52:39.599 --> 00:52:42.800
spend some of their hard -earned profits supporting

00:52:42.800 --> 00:52:46.079
things like Veterans Radio. Some of those would

00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:51.159
be Kearns Brothers, Nader Builders, J &B Painting

00:52:51.159 --> 00:52:55.500
and Coating Specialists, Arbor Avenue Private

00:52:55.500 --> 00:52:59.739
Wealth, Trillomed, Aerostrategies, Cornerstone.

00:53:00.679 --> 00:53:03.460
Real Estate, these are all folks who supported

00:53:03.460 --> 00:53:07.340
our Radio on the River event, which was really

00:53:07.340 --> 00:53:09.840
successful and will keep us going here for a

00:53:09.840 --> 00:53:13.480
while. And in that group of supporters included

00:53:13.480 --> 00:53:16.619
folks who are non -profits, you should look at

00:53:16.619 --> 00:53:21.980
like Fisher House of Michigan, Bob Woodruff Foundation.

00:53:22.599 --> 00:53:26.199
Those kind of people, again, realize the work,

00:53:26.300 --> 00:53:29.269
the good work we're doing and the work. that's

00:53:29.269 --> 00:53:32.949
necessary to do to keep the things going, keep

00:53:32.949 --> 00:53:36.710
veteran stories moving forward, give you information

00:53:36.710 --> 00:53:42.590
on veteran benefits, for example, bring you maybe

00:53:42.590 --> 00:53:46.869
a unbiased, unpolitical view of what's going

00:53:46.869 --> 00:53:49.610
on at VA and that's kind of why we're supported

00:53:49.610 --> 00:53:53.710
by the Ann Arbor health care system, VA health

00:53:53.710 --> 00:53:56.829
care system. We wouldn't get that support if

00:53:56.829 --> 00:54:00.469
we were not giving it to you straight down the

00:54:00.469 --> 00:54:02.829
middle and that's really what Dale and I and

00:54:02.829 --> 00:54:05.630
the team tries to do is bring you information

00:54:05.630 --> 00:54:09.449
you can use but also filter it in a way that

00:54:09.449 --> 00:54:12.989
it's useful that it's not biased but instead

00:54:12.989 --> 00:54:17.010
creates an opportunity for you to look into something

00:54:17.010 --> 00:54:20.880
you know I'm thinking of programs that we did,

00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:25.019
for example, on VA acupuncture that folks didn't

00:54:25.019 --> 00:54:28.159
know VA offered, and actually one of our board

00:54:28.159 --> 00:54:33.500
members used it recently and told us that, hey,

00:54:33.619 --> 00:54:37.940
my pain reduced by 50 percent. That's astounding.

00:54:38.659 --> 00:54:42.340
So again, we're veterans who use services, we're

00:54:42.340 --> 00:54:45.019
veterans who need this information and benefits,

00:54:45.639 --> 00:54:48.219
trying to understand, you know, what can be a

00:54:48.219 --> 00:54:52.000
complex system, and certainly under this current

00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:54.980
administration, it's been confusing at times

00:54:54.980 --> 00:54:59.980
of what's really going on. We don't rant. We

00:54:59.980 --> 00:55:02.679
don't give you the politics. We try to give you

00:55:02.679 --> 00:55:04.980
the facts and the information that you need as

00:55:04.980 --> 00:55:09.099
a veteran or a friend of a veteran in understanding

00:55:09.099 --> 00:55:12.639
what services are available, what information

00:55:12.639 --> 00:55:14.920
might be out there, what business opportunities

00:55:14.920 --> 00:55:19.340
might be out there. Hey, is this Vets to Drones?

00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:21.380
Is that an industry maybe I should get into?

00:55:21.559 --> 00:55:25.320
We've talked to the folks who run veteran driving

00:55:25.320 --> 00:55:29.599
schools. We talked to veteran franchisees like

00:55:29.599 --> 00:55:33.599
PuraClean about why veterans make good business

00:55:33.599 --> 00:55:37.179
owners and good franchisees. So there's a whole

00:55:37.179 --> 00:55:40.119
bunch of really solid reasons to listen in every

00:55:40.119 --> 00:55:43.480
week to Veterans Radio, whether it's on your

00:55:43.480 --> 00:55:47.030
local station. or on the internet where it's

00:55:47.030 --> 00:55:49.409
maybe sometimes more convenient for you to get

00:55:49.409 --> 00:55:52.949
to. But it's important for us to you to know

00:55:52.949 --> 00:55:56.690
that we're one of those veteran charities that

00:55:56.690 --> 00:56:01.269
really takes our mission seriously and we're

00:56:01.269 --> 00:56:04.110
good stewards of the funds that are provided

00:56:04.110 --> 00:56:09.719
to us to keep this whole process going. So. appreciate

00:56:09.719 --> 00:56:12.440
you listening in to Veterans Radio today. I hope

00:56:12.440 --> 00:56:14.940
you enjoyed both of these stories on vets to

00:56:14.940 --> 00:56:21.099
drones and raiding veteran charities. Come on

00:56:21.099 --> 00:56:24.539
back next week and until next time on Veterans

00:56:24.539 --> 00:56:27.860
Radio, you are dismissed.