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We were recently identified 00:02:20.340 --> 00:02:25.099 as the in the 15th spot, if you will, of the 00:02:25.099 --> 00:02:30.060 top 100 veteran -centric podcasts by Feet Spot. 00:02:30.699 --> 00:02:33.020 So really pretty proud of being in the top 15. 00:02:33.759 --> 00:02:38.409 So listen in wherever you're at to veteransradio 00:02:38.409 --> 00:02:42.189 .org and its podcasts. This interview is with 00:02:42.189 --> 00:02:46.610 a education coordinator who's written on the 00:02:46.610 --> 00:02:52.370 USS Indianapolis, the disastrous sinking of a 00:02:52.370 --> 00:02:56.729 ship in World War II. A thousand or so men died 00:02:56.729 --> 00:03:00.430 horrifically. So a little history and there's 00:03:00.430 --> 00:03:03.949 a few lessons to be learned about what your government 00:03:03.949 --> 00:03:07.789 tells you in this story. So listen in. We want 00:03:07.789 --> 00:03:11.330 to welcome to veterans radio today Betsy Alexander. 00:03:11.770 --> 00:03:15.669 She is the Resident historian at the War Memorial 00:03:15.669 --> 00:03:17.590 and we're going to talk a little bit more about 00:03:17.590 --> 00:03:21.090 that because that's kind of an unusual book both 00:03:21.090 --> 00:03:26.710 job and location that we want to talk about But 00:03:26.710 --> 00:03:29.349 what we're really focused on here today is an 00:03:29.349 --> 00:03:33.229 article that she wrote about the USS Indianapolis 00:03:33.229 --> 00:03:38.099 disaster and the men from Michigan who got lost 00:03:38.099 --> 00:03:43.340 in that World War II sinking of a destroyer, 00:03:43.340 --> 00:03:47.099 which was a big deal. Betsy, welcome to Veterans 00:03:47.099 --> 00:03:50.379 Radio. Nice to be here, thank you. Well, you 00:03:50.379 --> 00:03:53.719 know, as a resident historian, you get to kind 00:03:53.719 --> 00:03:56.500 of pick and choose, I think, subjects maybe you 00:03:56.500 --> 00:03:59.280 want to talk about. How did you decide that you 00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:03.259 were going to write? Hell Gone Mad, which is 00:04:03.259 --> 00:04:07.060 the story about Michigan's men of the USS Indianapolis 00:04:07.060 --> 00:04:11.280 disaster. Well, it was an interesting thing that 00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:13.780 happened. A lot of my stuff happens by happenstance. 00:04:14.219 --> 00:04:16.680 I had some gentlemen show up at the front desk 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:19.040 and I got a call and it's like, Bessie, we don't 00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:21.699 know what they want. They are looking for a plaque 00:04:21.699 --> 00:04:24.120 or some artwork and they're looking for you. 00:04:24.120 --> 00:04:27.519 And I went, okay. So the piece of artwork they 00:04:27.519 --> 00:04:30.800 were looking for was a rather large piece of 00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:33.160 the Indianapolis. It was an artist rendering 00:04:33.160 --> 00:04:36.620 and it had supposedly signatures from some of 00:04:36.620 --> 00:04:39.319 the survivors at the bottom. and it was supposed 00:04:39.319 --> 00:04:42.680 to be here. And I looked in the usual spots where 00:04:42.680 --> 00:04:44.779 this artwork would be kept at in the veterans 00:04:44.779 --> 00:04:46.899 room and the hallways surrounding the veterans 00:04:46.899 --> 00:04:49.620 room. And I came up with nothing. I went up to 00:04:49.620 --> 00:04:51.500 the attic to see if somebody had stored it up 00:04:51.500 --> 00:04:55.240 there to make me mad. Not up there. And I came 00:04:55.240 --> 00:04:57.860 back down and I said, fellas, I'm sorry, but 00:04:57.860 --> 00:05:01.199 I cannot find this. I will look for it. And they 00:05:01.199 --> 00:05:04.579 said, the other thing we're looking for is this 00:05:04.579 --> 00:05:07.800 plaque. this big plaque. And I said, what is 00:05:07.800 --> 00:05:09.639 the big plaque? And they said, we know that you 00:05:09.639 --> 00:05:13.240 have some here. It is for the young men who died 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:16.480 in the Indianapolis disaster from Michigan. And 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:19.040 they showed me a couple of press cuttings, very 00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:22.139 old press cuttings. And I went, ooh, I would 00:05:22.139 --> 00:05:25.920 not have something like that here. But that seems 00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:28.800 like that should be fairly easy to find. And 00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:31.819 so it's like, well, it's been missing for decades. 00:05:32.170 --> 00:05:36.269 And here's where it originally was. And it was 00:05:36.269 --> 00:05:39.129 supposedly in, they made it sound almost like 00:05:39.129 --> 00:05:43.370 it was in, not a VFW hall, but a gathering hall, 00:05:43.649 --> 00:05:46.329 because the people who were in charge of it were, 00:05:46.329 --> 00:05:49.509 I think VFW or something at the time. They were 00:05:49.509 --> 00:05:52.430 supposed to be the stewards of it until a new 00:05:52.430 --> 00:05:54.790 place could be built for it downtown in the new 00:05:54.790 --> 00:05:59.180 civic center. And so. I thought the obvious person 00:05:59.180 --> 00:06:01.220 to call would be my buddy who's a curator at 00:06:01.220 --> 00:06:05.300 the Detroit Historical because I thought if you're 00:06:05.300 --> 00:06:08.160 going to demo a building back then and you had 00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:10.480 something that looked valuable, because I always 00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:13.300 have to play detective in my role, the first 00:06:13.300 --> 00:06:15.680 place I would go to is there and secondarily 00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:18.779 then to the DIA and say, we have a giant brass 00:06:18.779 --> 00:06:20.959 plaque that might be worth something. We have 00:06:20.959 --> 00:06:23.439 a bust. We have a big statue. We're getting rid 00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:25.529 of the building. Do you want this thing? We'll 00:06:25.529 --> 00:06:28.089 drop it off right now in your parking lot. So 00:06:28.089 --> 00:06:31.709 I called my buddy, and he said, never seen it. 00:06:31.730 --> 00:06:34.209 It's not on the accession list. If I ever see 00:06:34.209 --> 00:06:36.410 it, I'll call you back. And I said, ace. That's 00:06:36.410 --> 00:06:39.430 a great deal. He found it about two months later. 00:06:39.589 --> 00:06:42.970 Oh, my. He found it. Back up. Why did these gentlemen 00:06:42.970 --> 00:06:48.370 want to find it? Because they were the organization. 00:06:48.750 --> 00:06:52.529 uh the legacy organization for the USS Indianapolis 00:06:52.529 --> 00:06:55.089 and they were in from out of town and they were 00:06:55.089 --> 00:06:57.670 like we really really really want to find this 00:06:57.670 --> 00:07:00.029 this is you know the big connection to Michigan 00:07:00.029 --> 00:07:03.930 who could have this well let's let's stop here 00:07:03.930 --> 00:07:06.470 we'll have a lot of veteran radio listeners who 00:07:06.470 --> 00:07:11.569 are not world war two age or world war two buffs 00:07:11.569 --> 00:07:17.529 tell us about the USS Indianapolis and its role 00:07:17.529 --> 00:07:21.610 in history at that point, and why this is memorable 00:07:21.610 --> 00:07:26.589 today. The easiest way, and the most obnoxious 00:07:26.589 --> 00:07:28.730 way to remind people of what it is, is remember 00:07:28.730 --> 00:07:31.889 when you saw the film Jaws, and Quint starts 00:07:31.889 --> 00:07:34.550 riffing on, oh, we're going to have the sharks 00:07:34.550 --> 00:07:36.949 coming, and it's going to be like the Indianapolis 00:07:36.949 --> 00:07:39.250 disaster. I was there, and he gets all crazy 00:07:39.250 --> 00:07:43.410 looking. And a lot of kids and young adults saw 00:07:43.410 --> 00:07:45.230 that when the film came out and went, I wonder 00:07:45.230 --> 00:07:47.290 what that is, but they never checked into it. 00:07:47.529 --> 00:07:50.910 That is the disaster that is discussed in the 00:07:50.910 --> 00:07:55.610 film Jaws. This is a situation where the guys 00:07:55.610 --> 00:08:01.529 were supposedly carrying very important parts. 00:08:01.670 --> 00:08:06.110 It was basically the mechanism for the atomic 00:08:06.110 --> 00:08:08.829 bomb for Hiroshima. They did not know that it 00:08:08.829 --> 00:08:11.310 was on their ship. They were just told you're 00:08:11.310 --> 00:08:13.550 doing a top secret thing. You're to go in this 00:08:13.550 --> 00:08:16.310 stop, this stop. You're going to do it in record 00:08:16.310 --> 00:08:18.269 time. And then when you're done with that, we're 00:08:18.269 --> 00:08:21.610 going to send you off to do some drills over 00:08:21.610 --> 00:08:23.850 in the Philippines. And they're like, OK, cool. 00:08:24.209 --> 00:08:26.170 So they delivered the goods, not even knowing 00:08:26.170 --> 00:08:30.470 they had dropped off this monumental thing. And 00:08:30.470 --> 00:08:33.110 they were on their way then to these just ordinary 00:08:33.110 --> 00:08:37.370 drilling exercises and a Japanese submarine. 00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:42.700 who the U .S. government knew was cruising in 00:08:42.700 --> 00:08:44.720 the area. There was four of them the government 00:08:44.720 --> 00:08:49.059 knew about and did not tell the captain of the 00:08:49.059 --> 00:08:53.440 ship, Captain McVeigh, saw them. And just after 00:08:53.440 --> 00:08:57.159 midnight, nailed them one night. Let me put some 00:08:57.159 --> 00:08:59.679 context around this in terms of dates. So this 00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:05.639 is July 30th, actually, of 1945. They've dropped 00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:07.980 off the parts for the atomic bomb that's going 00:09:07.980 --> 00:09:11.139 to end World War II, so we're almost at the end. 00:09:13.259 --> 00:09:19.200 There's 1 ,195 crew members on this heavy cruiser, 00:09:19.399 --> 00:09:23.720 the USS Indianapolis. A lot of guys. A lot of 00:09:23.720 --> 00:09:27.019 very, very young guys in their teens, mostly. 00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:33.320 And the worst thing in the world happens They 00:09:33.320 --> 00:09:37.740 get torpedoed. The ship gets torpedoed and sinks 00:09:37.740 --> 00:09:42.509 quickly. in 15 minutes or less there's reports 00:09:42.509 --> 00:09:45.750 between 12 and 15 minutes the first torpedo the 00:09:45.750 --> 00:09:49.389 first two hit the ship and the first one tore 00:09:49.389 --> 00:09:51.830 basically the whole bow off so the thing was 00:09:51.830 --> 00:09:53.830 continuing to go and you're just filling with 00:09:53.830 --> 00:09:56.970 water the second one a couple seconds later hit 00:09:56.970 --> 00:10:00.629 the hit the ammo in a couple of other compartments 00:10:00.629 --> 00:10:05.269 and it just went straight down so you had a really 00:10:05.269 --> 00:10:10.049 very little chance of evacuating or or putting 00:10:10.049 --> 00:10:13.669 over the lifeboats or anything. Correct. Very 00:10:13.669 --> 00:10:17.049 few lifeboats were out there. Some guys had on 00:10:17.049 --> 00:10:20.009 the inflatable vest. Most of the guys were trapped 00:10:20.009 --> 00:10:22.899 below. I mean, it happened that quickly. Immediately, 00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:25.039 the radios went out. They couldn't even call 00:10:25.039 --> 00:10:27.720 down and say, you know, evacuate the ship. It 00:10:27.720 --> 00:10:31.679 was just a complete, really fast disaster with 00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:34.139 with guys who are also very green. They had just 00:10:34.139 --> 00:10:37.720 picked up. Most of the crew were young, 17, 18, 00:10:37.779 --> 00:10:40.600 19 year old kids. And they had just this was 00:10:40.600 --> 00:10:43.240 their first couple of weeks of being in service. 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:46.720 So they had no clue what was going on. So as 00:10:46.720 --> 00:10:50.759 I said, there's. roughly 1 ,200 men on the ship. 00:10:52.440 --> 00:10:57.539 And not many survived. How many survived? It 00:10:57.539 --> 00:11:01.100 got whittled down really quickly. They think 00:11:01.100 --> 00:11:02.960 there was about, I think it was about 800 in 00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:04.539 the water. I could be wrong on that. I'd have 00:11:04.539 --> 00:11:07.879 to refer to my notes. Within the first 24 hours 00:11:07.879 --> 00:11:10.399 in the water, it was down by a couple of hundred. 00:11:10.919 --> 00:11:14.059 And they were just being, they were covered in 00:11:14.059 --> 00:11:18.200 real heavy grade oil. which was actually sort 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:20.740 of a blessing because the guys apparently that 00:11:20.740 --> 00:11:24.779 were in, that had less coverage were found easier 00:11:24.779 --> 00:11:27.440 by the sharks. Yeah, one of the things that's 00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:31.139 just horrifying about this is that it happened 00:11:31.139 --> 00:11:34.860 so fast, as I say, maybe it's 800 guys and a 00:11:34.860 --> 00:11:37.440 couple of hundred, two to three, I think it's 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:40.460 300, survive ultimately. The others succumb to 00:11:40.460 --> 00:11:43.879 the elements and the elements include sharks, 00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:47.740 which gives you that modern movie reference you 00:11:47.740 --> 00:11:51.460 started with in Jaws. I mean, it's just horrific 00:11:51.460 --> 00:11:54.299 to think about these guys out there floating 00:11:54.299 --> 00:11:59.340 in the middle of the ocean. There were no distress 00:11:59.340 --> 00:12:03.200 calls, no nothing. No nothing. And the government 00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:06.659 abandoned them. They didn't show up where they 00:12:06.659 --> 00:12:09.139 were supposed to be the next day for the drilling 00:12:09.139 --> 00:12:13.190 exercises. Nobody went looking for them. So you 00:12:13.190 --> 00:12:15.669 have a bunch of kids bobbing around in salt, 00:12:15.830 --> 00:12:19.090 remember, salt water. So not knowing they were 00:12:19.090 --> 00:12:21.070 Thursday, they start drinking the salt water 00:12:21.070 --> 00:12:23.730 and literally, you know, besides your tongue 00:12:23.730 --> 00:12:26.090 swelling up and your throat closing off and it 00:12:26.090 --> 00:12:29.309 makes you mad. You go mad. So you had guys that 00:12:29.309 --> 00:12:31.450 were, you know, seeing all kinds of crazy stuff 00:12:31.450 --> 00:12:33.970 and I'm swimming to the ship there and swimming 00:12:33.970 --> 00:12:37.860 off and drowning. So they were watching each 00:12:37.860 --> 00:12:41.879 other do that and trying to talk sense into their 00:12:41.879 --> 00:12:44.220 compatriots who were basically killing themselves. 00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:47.299 A lot of the young guys after a few days out 00:12:47.299 --> 00:12:50.259 there were so depressed, they just did kill themselves. 00:12:50.320 --> 00:12:52.759 They let go and they went under. And then there 00:12:52.759 --> 00:12:54.679 was, you know, because of the blood and the water 00:12:54.679 --> 00:12:58.320 and guys with injuries, it was sharks. It was 00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:00.940 tiger sharks and I believe white tip sharks. 00:13:01.620 --> 00:13:05.320 And apparently it was... It was very ugly. And 00:13:05.320 --> 00:13:09.379 thank God somebody finally about the third day 00:13:09.379 --> 00:13:11.659 flew overhead and couldn't believe what he saw. 00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:14.179 Yeah, that's I wanted to get to that point because 00:13:14.179 --> 00:13:18.080 it's three days, like three days later, a plane 00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:20.559 happens to fly by. What's going on down there? 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:25.080 Because they had no idea. No clue where the Minneapolis 00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:27.820 was. And they had obviously lost contact. There 00:13:27.820 --> 00:13:29.919 was no radio contact with them. It went down 00:13:29.919 --> 00:13:35.990 so fast. It was almost accidental that they got 00:13:35.990 --> 00:13:38.429 discovered. Yeah, yeah. He saw an oil slick. 00:13:38.549 --> 00:13:41.149 So he went down and he happened to be fooling 00:13:41.149 --> 00:13:42.889 around in the back of the aircraft trying to 00:13:42.889 --> 00:13:45.009 fix an antenna that was trailing. And he happened 00:13:45.009 --> 00:13:47.690 to look down. He saw an oil slick and he's like, 00:13:47.909 --> 00:13:50.090 wait a minute. Do we have, you know, do we have 00:13:50.090 --> 00:13:52.529 like a Japanese submarine down here laying oil? 00:13:52.610 --> 00:13:54.730 I'm going to go down. So he went down to the 00:13:54.730 --> 00:13:57.129 surface and started seeing guys bobbing. And 00:13:57.129 --> 00:13:59.529 as he was calling back to the base, he's like, 00:13:59.529 --> 00:14:01.840 I've got like 10 guys down here, wait a minute, 00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:04.580 I've got like 60, wait a minute, I got like 100 00:14:04.580 --> 00:14:07.360 some guys down here. They didn't believe him. 00:14:07.379 --> 00:14:10.159 They still would not believe him when he was 00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:12.639 calling back to the base. And he's like, move, 00:14:12.820 --> 00:14:17.019 go, do something. It's hard to think, it's hard 00:14:17.019 --> 00:14:20.960 in 2025 to put your mind in what it was like 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:26.360 in 1945. where there isn't kind of like all the 00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:29.820 sophisticated gear and information and beacons 00:14:29.820 --> 00:14:34.320 and radio wave signals for survivors and that. 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:38.299 I mean, it was a whole different time. And the 00:14:38.299 --> 00:14:40.720 Indianapolis was on this secret mission to begin 00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:45.860 with. And I guess the Navy didn't want to acknowledge 00:14:45.860 --> 00:14:50.240 it was lost or out there. It actually took the 00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:55.379 Navy a long time to let the U .S. public know 00:14:55.379 --> 00:14:58.480 that the Indianapolis went down. Talk about that. 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:01.539 To me, that's crazy in a world of instant communication. 00:15:02.659 --> 00:15:05.980 Some of the stuff they did was, I can only say, 00:15:06.299 --> 00:15:10.139 evil. First off, they didn't tell the captain 00:15:10.139 --> 00:15:12.940 that there was four subs that was cruising right 00:15:12.940 --> 00:15:15.480 in there. So it's like, why would you not tell 00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:17.779 the man to be extra careful? Why would you not 00:15:17.779 --> 00:15:19.720 give him an escort, which they found after the 00:15:19.720 --> 00:15:22.360 fact was available? He could have had an escort 00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:27.419 with him. When they kept calling in other airplanes 00:15:27.419 --> 00:15:30.639 and ships just started diverting and talking, 00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:33.559 not even in code saying, wait a minute, the bases 00:15:33.559 --> 00:15:35.480 aren't responding. We need to go. There's guys 00:15:35.480 --> 00:15:38.019 in the water. So all of those people could have 00:15:38.019 --> 00:15:40.320 been court martial that did that over the next 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:43.519 few days. When they finally had everybody picked 00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:47.700 up and collected and back on land, the government 00:15:47.700 --> 00:15:50.899 decided to wait until they could do the announcement 00:15:50.899 --> 00:15:53.940 that the Japanese had surrendered so that the 00:15:53.940 --> 00:15:57.779 main headline would not be. Huge disaster at 00:15:57.779 --> 00:16:02.120 sea, biggest naval disaster ever. Guys are finally 00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:06.100 back on dry land. The rest are lost. So you had 00:16:06.100 --> 00:16:08.600 them down in the bottom part as the secondary 00:16:08.600 --> 00:16:11.600 headline in the huge letters everybody was reading 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:15.080 was about the surrender, which was one of the 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:17.379 final insults, although they managed to continue 00:16:17.379 --> 00:16:21.860 by then court -martialing the poor captain. Yeah, 00:16:21.860 --> 00:16:23.600 I want to talk about that too, because it's in 00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:28.789 your article. gone mad for the war memorial but 00:16:28.789 --> 00:16:32.190 this whole idea that they sat on the disaster 00:16:32.190 --> 00:16:35.769 and didn't didn't tell the families that had 00:16:35.769 --> 00:16:41.070 where they had perished 900 some families or 00:16:41.070 --> 00:16:44.389 the families the 300 some families where your 00:16:44.389 --> 00:16:47.289 your son's still alive for like two weeks it 00:16:47.289 --> 00:16:52.309 was it was the 15th of August 1945 because they 00:16:52.309 --> 00:16:57.019 waited until after the atomic bombs dropped after 00:16:57.019 --> 00:16:59.720 Japan finally surrenders, okay, now we'll slide 00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:06.539 it out. I had never focused on that kind of manipulation 00:17:06.539 --> 00:17:11.259 of public transparency. It was just really evil. 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:13.440 I mean, and they just, it's like they kept compounding. 00:17:13.460 --> 00:17:15.980 So the government decides with all this going 00:17:15.980 --> 00:17:17.460 on, then people are starting to go, wait a minute, 00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:19.279 what was this other thing that happened with 00:17:19.279 --> 00:17:22.700 these young kids? So they decide they're gonna 00:17:22.700 --> 00:17:27.000 court -martial Captain McVeigh saying, well, 00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:30.359 you didn't zigzag, and that's why you ended up 00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:32.980 getting hit. And so you endangered the crew and 00:17:32.980 --> 00:17:35.460 you've done terrible things, you know, whatever. 00:17:36.039 --> 00:17:39.500 And it's like it was it was said at the time 00:17:39.500 --> 00:17:43.980 that even if he zigzagged, the court marshal 00:17:43.980 --> 00:17:45.740 should not have happened because he still would 00:17:45.740 --> 00:17:49.359 have been hit. Now, to to really cap things off, 00:17:49.519 --> 00:17:52.000 the U .S. government brought in is their chief 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:57.230 prosecution witness Captain Hashimoto, the guy 00:17:57.230 --> 00:18:00.970 that torpedoed the ship. So you have Perry Mason 00:18:00.970 --> 00:18:05.210 bringing in the murderer to talk about what would 00:18:05.210 --> 00:18:08.890 not. And the guy, Hashimoto got in and he said, 00:18:09.289 --> 00:18:11.369 they could have done anything on the planet. 00:18:11.470 --> 00:18:13.789 They were so close. They were under five miles 00:18:13.789 --> 00:18:17.190 away from me. I have them. I'm surprised every 00:18:17.190 --> 00:18:19.920 torpedo didn't hit them. There was no way. This 00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:22.480 man could have escaped. He did nothing wrong. 00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:26.259 No zigzag, no nothing. They were going to die. 00:18:27.119 --> 00:18:31.140 And that was government. McVeigh gets court martialed. 00:18:31.140 --> 00:18:36.759 His career ends. It impacts the rest of his life. 00:18:37.460 --> 00:18:41.289 Yes, very, very sadly. And his men. testified 00:18:41.289 --> 00:18:43.970 for him all the reunions they just they still 00:18:43.970 --> 00:18:46.210 thought he was the greatest thing they tried 00:18:46.210 --> 00:18:49.809 from the get -go to clear his name going no this 00:18:49.809 --> 00:18:51.750 this man should not have been court -martialed 00:18:51.750 --> 00:18:53.589 they always called him captain even though he 00:18:53.589 --> 00:18:56.650 had a paper you know pay grade he considered 00:18:56.650 --> 00:18:58.650 himself a captain to one of the guys and that's 00:18:58.650 --> 00:19:01.150 what they referred to him as finally when he 00:19:01.150 --> 00:19:04.329 was 70 years old it just took too much of a of 00:19:04.329 --> 00:19:07.329 an emotional toll he had not only survivor skill 00:19:07.660 --> 00:19:10.799 But he had these mothers and whatnot who were 00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:13.859 going, you killed my son, you horrible man. And 00:19:13.859 --> 00:19:16.299 he walked out into his backyard and blew his 00:19:16.299 --> 00:19:21.859 brains out. And today we maybe have more focus 00:19:21.859 --> 00:19:26.059 than we had back then on veteran suicide, on 00:19:26.059 --> 00:19:29.420 the emotional mental health impacts of service. 00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:32.779 And obviously, when you're responsible as a captain 00:19:32.779 --> 00:19:37.200 for 1200 men and only 300 come home. You can 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:41.940 only imagine what the burden that he had to carry 00:19:41.940 --> 00:19:46.519 on. And then the government, the Navy, the service 00:19:46.519 --> 00:19:50.339 he's given his life to piles on and says, it's 00:19:50.339 --> 00:19:52.859 all your fault because you didn't steer the ship 00:19:52.859 --> 00:19:59.500 the right way. Just an awful story. And by the 00:19:59.500 --> 00:20:03.960 time the story gets Fixed isn't the right word, 00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:06.559 but put back on the right path, it's too late. 00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:13.160 Well, it came full circle, really, when you had 00:20:13.160 --> 00:20:16.660 the fellow who was the commander then of the 00:20:16.660 --> 00:20:18.779 Indianapolis submarine. There's been a variety 00:20:18.779 --> 00:20:22.380 of ships called the Indianapolis over time. And 00:20:22.380 --> 00:20:26.059 that was Commander Toti, T -O -T -I. And he was 00:20:26.059 --> 00:20:28.059 like, wait a minute. that this guy should not 00:20:28.059 --> 00:20:30.819 have been court a court martial. And so he kind 00:20:30.819 --> 00:20:33.039 of, you know, looking at it, Indianapolis to 00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:35.779 Indianapolis, he started raising a ruckus saying 00:20:35.779 --> 00:20:37.880 what this is complete nonsense what happened. 00:20:38.099 --> 00:20:42.700 So he started doing all kinds of tests with modern, 00:20:42.700 --> 00:20:45.099 you know, modern equipment and what they knew 00:20:45.099 --> 00:20:49.319 now. And he proved and I spoke to him and I wrote 00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:51.279 in the article right on what he told me he says, 00:20:51.579 --> 00:20:54.839 I proved absolutely positively that there was 00:20:54.839 --> 00:20:57.660 no way even if he zigzagged he was not going 00:20:57.660 --> 00:21:00.059 to be hit the whole thing again he should have 00:21:00.059 --> 00:21:02.420 never ever been court -martialed they were looking 00:21:02.420 --> 00:21:05.980 for a scapegoat and everybody knew it nobody 00:21:05.980 --> 00:21:08.359 on the other side got uh gotten in trouble none 00:21:08.359 --> 00:21:11.359 of the military guys were not looking for them 00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:13.180 or not telling them that that you know there 00:21:13.180 --> 00:21:16.359 was four subs out there the sub two one of the 00:21:16.359 --> 00:21:18.759 subs two days before he had already blown up 00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:21.829 another american ship They knew the four subs 00:21:21.829 --> 00:21:25.829 were out there. And then Hashimoto spent the 00:21:25.829 --> 00:21:28.509 rest of his life, he became apparently a Shinto 00:21:28.509 --> 00:21:31.150 priest, and he spent the rest of his life trying 00:21:31.150 --> 00:21:33.910 to clear McVeigh's name. Here he is, the guy 00:21:33.910 --> 00:21:36.859 that did it. It's like... I had nothing personal. 00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:39.980 This was orders. But no, the guy was railroaded 00:21:39.980 --> 00:21:41.799 by the government. And then you brought me in 00:21:41.799 --> 00:21:44.779 to testify against your guy. So it just shows 00:21:44.779 --> 00:21:51.039 how outrageous outrageous it was. It also and 00:21:51.039 --> 00:21:54.839 wearing your mantle of historian here for the 00:21:54.839 --> 00:21:56.960 Grosse Pointe War Memorial, it also shows you 00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:01.880 how whatever we learn in the near term to a disaster. 00:22:02.569 --> 00:22:05.869 may not be the real answer. We may not have all 00:22:05.869 --> 00:22:11.269 the facts. And only looking back in hindsight, 00:22:11.309 --> 00:22:16.250 and I think it was maybe in 2000, Congress exonerated 00:22:16.250 --> 00:22:22.130 McVeigh. We're talking 60, 35 years later or 00:22:22.130 --> 00:22:26.670 something, or 55 years later, he finally gets 00:22:26.670 --> 00:22:30.289 exonerated. There's really this lesson to be 00:22:30.289 --> 00:22:34.700 learned about how how much credence you put in 00:22:34.700 --> 00:22:38.660 what we know today versus what we will know in 00:22:38.660 --> 00:22:41.400 the future when historians like you dig into 00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:45.619 things, talk to people, look at it from a different 00:22:45.619 --> 00:22:47.740 angle. There's a lesson to be learned there, 00:22:47.819 --> 00:22:50.880 isn't there? There is, and there's also, I mean, 00:22:51.579 --> 00:22:54.059 you look at between Hashimoto and then the kid, 00:22:54.299 --> 00:22:57.470 literally the kid that really. picked everybody 00:22:57.470 --> 00:22:59.549 up through Iran whether they wanted publicity 00:22:59.549 --> 00:23:03.509 because it was a high school kid for his history 00:23:03.509 --> 00:23:06.369 day project said wait a minute I've heard about 00:23:06.369 --> 00:23:08.269 this there's no information out there he had 00:23:08.269 --> 00:23:10.650 just seen Jaws and he's like how come I can't 00:23:10.650 --> 00:23:14.109 find information on the USS Indianapolis so he 00:23:14.109 --> 00:23:17.789 went out and played detective and he interviewed 00:23:17.789 --> 00:23:20.509 he had about 800 documents that he physically 00:23:20.509 --> 00:23:23.990 went through he interviewed 120 of the survivors 00:23:23.990 --> 00:23:26.849 at that point and he was like This whole thing 00:23:26.849 --> 00:23:30.369 is fishing. He did his history day report, which 00:23:30.369 --> 00:23:32.410 I'm surprised this didn't go to the nationals. 00:23:32.490 --> 00:23:35.430 It lost out in Florida. And I'm very involved 00:23:35.430 --> 00:23:37.829 in history day. So that's what I also zeroed 00:23:37.829 --> 00:23:40.650 in. I was like, these are one of our kids. He 00:23:40.650 --> 00:23:43.009 went and he proved that that this whole thing 00:23:43.009 --> 00:23:45.970 was a bunch of nonsense and laid it out. And 00:23:45.970 --> 00:23:49.029 he started making the rounds of the new shows. 00:23:49.029 --> 00:23:51.109 And then it escalated up to like the David Letterman 00:23:51.109 --> 00:23:53.730 show. And so people are like, well, what is this? 00:23:53.750 --> 00:23:55.609 What is this thing again? This was Jaws. and 00:23:55.609 --> 00:23:57.349 this young kid and blah, blah, blah. And they 00:23:57.349 --> 00:24:00.529 started listening. So the right people got together 00:24:00.529 --> 00:24:04.960 around him and said, look, we can get you. into 00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:07.279 talk to Congress. Why don't you go and present 00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:10.640 what you've got in Congress? Tony came in also 00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:13.980 was pushing as part of that. Joe Scarborough 00:24:13.980 --> 00:24:17.240 from Morning Joe was involved in this back when 00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:20.440 he was in Congress and he laid out what the deal 00:24:20.440 --> 00:24:23.500 was and the kid is actually probably the one 00:24:23.500 --> 00:24:27.380 who pushed over the top getting McVeigh exonerated 00:24:27.380 --> 00:24:29.859 and getting the full story out as to what happened 00:24:29.859 --> 00:24:33.920 to these guys, compliments of the military completely. 00:24:33.900 --> 00:24:36.440 watching the whole thing. Well, it is you write 00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:39.180 about this 12 year old, he was 12 year old student 00:24:39.180 --> 00:24:42.660 in Florida. Hunter Scott's his name. This is 00:24:42.660 --> 00:24:46.359 1997. And he kind of gets this all restarted 00:24:46.359 --> 00:24:50.619 again. It's really amazing story of how how that 00:24:50.619 --> 00:24:55.440 gets going. And, and then we continue on. I see 00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:57.519 you and you have pictures in your story, which 00:24:57.519 --> 00:25:01.710 are really fascinating about the wreck of the 00:25:01.710 --> 00:25:04.789 USS Indianapolis finally being found in the ocean. 00:25:05.329 --> 00:25:07.569 Yep. Yeah, they thought that would never be fun. 00:25:07.609 --> 00:25:10.509 It is so far down. It's way deeper than the Titanic 00:25:10.509 --> 00:25:13.450 is. It is about as far as you can go down in 00:25:13.450 --> 00:25:17.049 an ocean at the bottom. And because it's so far 00:25:17.049 --> 00:25:19.869 down and there's like no movement or anything 00:25:19.869 --> 00:25:22.809 down that far, it looks as if it just went down 00:25:22.809 --> 00:25:25.589 yesterday. There's no rust or anything on it. 00:25:25.690 --> 00:25:28.410 You can read very easily the number on the side. 00:25:28.529 --> 00:25:31.750 It's like, oh yeah, that's That's the Indy. Everything 00:25:31.750 --> 00:25:34.250 is right there and spectacular looking. So that 00:25:34.250 --> 00:25:38.769 was, again, a bunch of civilians who went down. 00:25:38.910 --> 00:25:40.890 This wasn't the army or the Navy or something 00:25:40.890 --> 00:25:44.029 doing, you know, looking for it. These were a 00:25:44.029 --> 00:25:46.029 bunch of civilians. And let's try to find this 00:25:46.029 --> 00:25:48.009 when we've found some other wrecks. And again, 00:25:48.089 --> 00:25:49.769 it was people going, wait a minute, we got it 00:25:49.769 --> 00:25:52.390 now. See, this isn't right. Let's help. People 00:25:52.390 --> 00:25:55.069 keep telling the story to try to put the thing 00:25:55.069 --> 00:25:58.369 right. There's so many little facts that if you 00:25:58.369 --> 00:26:00.529 gather them, they change the whole perspective. 00:26:02.029 --> 00:26:04.690 You started with a bit of a mystery of the missing 00:26:04.690 --> 00:26:08.329 plaque. Yep. What happened to the plaque? The 00:26:08.329 --> 00:26:11.809 missing plaque. So Bill finds the plaque in the 00:26:11.809 --> 00:26:14.190 back of the, I call it the bubble car garage 00:26:14.190 --> 00:26:19.309 in the very back of the, at Fort Wayne, the collections. 00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:22.039 big old collections building down for the Detroit 00:26:22.039 --> 00:26:24.920 Historical Society. He found that plaque and 00:26:24.920 --> 00:26:27.299 next to it was the other plaque I had asked him, 00:26:27.319 --> 00:26:30.559 if you ever find the plaque for Fred Elger, let 00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:32.400 me know. And he goes, Betsy, I found both of 00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:35.500 them together. And I'm like, oh, my God. So it's 00:26:35.500 --> 00:26:37.440 like, OK, what are you going to do with the plaque? 00:26:37.539 --> 00:26:40.619 Because people need to see it. And obviously, 00:26:40.660 --> 00:26:44.440 he gets to make the final call because he's holding 00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:48.720 the plaque now. So we give him the entire story 00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:51.460 of the plaque. We know, like I said, this wasn't 00:26:51.460 --> 00:26:53.460 even in their records because they used to just 00:26:53.460 --> 00:26:55.519 take stuff in willy -nilly when it was under 00:26:55.519 --> 00:26:57.980 different management, when it was a city. And 00:26:57.980 --> 00:27:00.799 so there is a, we had a plaque unveiling a couple 00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:03.980 of weekends ago at the Detroit Historical Society. 00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:06.619 You can go down now and go to the arsenal of 00:27:06.619 --> 00:27:09.819 democracy section up on the second floor. And 00:27:09.819 --> 00:27:12.759 you can see the USS Indianapolis plaque that 00:27:12.759 --> 00:27:15.380 was for the 70 some young kids from Michigan 00:27:15.380 --> 00:27:19.119 who went down and it was paid for. or by the 00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:23.440 parents of the boys who died. It's very sad to 00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:24.359 see. Oh, thank God it didn't get melted down. 00:27:24.519 --> 00:27:27.839 I mean, you sort of go, oh no, did that get melted 00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:31.660 down somewhere along the line? And you have that 00:27:31.660 --> 00:27:34.019 again in your article, a picture of it, which 00:27:34.019 --> 00:27:41.579 is sort of moving. And it becomes, did you ever 00:27:41.579 --> 00:27:45.019 find the other piece that the... the folks came 00:27:45.019 --> 00:27:47.819 to the front door and asked about which is the 00:27:47.819 --> 00:27:51.759 yes with the signatures I got a call from one 00:27:51.759 --> 00:27:54.019 of my buddies who was in our facilities department 00:27:54.019 --> 00:27:57.200 he's like hey betts I'm in the I'm in the bathroom 00:27:57.200 --> 00:27:59.259 right now and there's a ship and you know I've 00:27:59.259 --> 00:28:02.000 always wanted you know this kid loves ships and 00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:05.099 shipwrecks and stuff and I said take a picture 00:28:05.099 --> 00:28:08.000 not of you in the bathroom but take a picture 00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:09.839 of what you're looking at send it to me right 00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:13.250 now so he texted to me I said Where are you? 00:28:13.529 --> 00:28:16.289 What bathroom are you in? He was in where the 00:28:16.289 --> 00:28:19.509 facilities guys go wee -wee, you know. Oh. I 00:28:19.509 --> 00:28:21.410 don't go in here. That's where the dudes do their, 00:28:21.430 --> 00:28:24.529 you know, whatever. And I said, that thing is 00:28:24.529 --> 00:28:27.390 coming off the wall. Thank you very, very much. 00:28:27.609 --> 00:28:29.690 And so I got a hold in of Jeff Ortiz and the 00:28:29.690 --> 00:28:33.400 guys. I said, we found it. It's in the. the maintenance 00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:37.220 guy's bathroom so that's hilarious so it was 00:28:37.220 --> 00:28:40.019 like i was i was mad you don't put you know something 00:28:40.019 --> 00:28:42.440 like that which is almost a sacred artifact into 00:28:42.619 --> 00:28:46.720 the Lou for a bunch of guys. So they asked them 00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:49.839 if they could show the piece of artwork. So that 00:28:49.839 --> 00:28:53.900 was also at the at the unveiling ceremony. I 00:28:53.900 --> 00:28:55.880 lent them that. So that was on an easel. People 00:28:55.880 --> 00:28:58.700 could look at that. The gentlemen who have signed 00:28:58.700 --> 00:29:03.460 it are all deceased now. And we rehung it. I 00:29:03.460 --> 00:29:05.900 spoke to our CEO and I said this is going somewhere 00:29:05.900 --> 00:29:09.000 respectful. So it is right outside of our veterans 00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:11.500 room now in the corridor going into the Fred 00:29:11.500 --> 00:29:15.779 Elger where there's other military and historical 00:29:15.779 --> 00:29:18.279 things up on the wall. So everybody now can see 00:29:18.279 --> 00:29:22.220 it. So let's use the last few minutes here. Let's 00:29:22.220 --> 00:29:26.160 talk about the Grosse Pointe War Memorial and 00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:33.660 its historic and continuing honoring of men and 00:29:33.660 --> 00:29:38.289 women who serve in the military. When the Elger 00:29:38.289 --> 00:29:41.849 House was dedicated and given over free of charge 00:29:41.849 --> 00:29:45.250 by Mary and Elger, she said, you can have this 00:29:45.250 --> 00:29:47.569 as long as it's for two purposes. Half of the 00:29:47.569 --> 00:29:50.690 mission is to honor veterans and those who never 00:29:50.690 --> 00:29:54.329 came back and to put on programs, keep their 00:29:54.329 --> 00:29:57.349 memory alive, try to serve them. And the other 00:29:57.349 --> 00:30:01.450 half is for community stuff, classes, speakers, 00:30:02.210 --> 00:30:04.009 learning how to paint, things of that that are 00:30:04.009 --> 00:30:06.140 cultural. That's what you're supposed to be doing 00:30:06.140 --> 00:30:10.640 with my house. Here is my estate. And so what 00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:14.039 we try to do internally is we have a veterans 00:30:14.039 --> 00:30:17.500 community, a veterans committee part of some 00:30:17.500 --> 00:30:19.500 of us who are interested in veterans affairs. 00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:22.619 And we try to do something every month for veterans. 00:30:22.740 --> 00:30:24.640 We have a vet to vet meeting. And then every 00:30:24.640 --> 00:30:26.839 other month, we have a speaker. So we alternate. 00:30:26.940 --> 00:30:29.119 The guys can just get together and hang out and 00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:31.420 talk about what they're up to. And some of them 00:30:31.420 --> 00:30:34.500 are politically active in that. and they talk 00:30:34.500 --> 00:30:36.420 about what they're trying to push through. And 00:30:36.420 --> 00:30:39.660 then other times we have speakers. One of the 00:30:39.660 --> 00:30:42.119 really fun ones we had was Carl Marlantis. He 00:30:42.119 --> 00:30:45.740 was an absolute hoot. I adored him. And he had 00:30:45.740 --> 00:30:48.019 the audience like cracking up, but he had great 00:30:48.019 --> 00:30:51.420 stories. And it's, you know, veterans of every 00:30:51.420 --> 00:30:53.180 war. We actually have a couple of World War II 00:30:53.180 --> 00:30:56.039 guys that are here that are an absolute delight, 00:30:56.799 --> 00:30:59.220 real heavy on Vietnam veterans. So I work with 00:30:59.220 --> 00:31:04.079 a lot of them and we get only small numbers of 00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:06.079 Desert Storm and Afghan. It's like the younger 00:31:06.079 --> 00:31:09.000 guys don't seem to want to get that involved. 00:31:09.400 --> 00:31:11.599 But Vietnam, yeah. We've certainly experienced 00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:13.599 that in a variety of things in Veterans Radio. 00:31:13.640 --> 00:31:15.720 And we're talking about Betsy L .A. Alexander, 00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:18.440 who's the historical education coordinator for 00:31:18.440 --> 00:31:21.680 the Grouse Point War Memorial. But we sort of 00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:24.980 think some of the younger guys, time will come 00:31:24.980 --> 00:31:27.420 where they have the time to be more involved 00:31:27.420 --> 00:31:29.759 versus they're being involved with their family 00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:33.099 and their jobs and their careers. I think we're 00:31:33.099 --> 00:31:35.519 gonna see that change a little bit as long as 00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:39.779 the torch stays lit at places like the Grosse 00:31:39.779 --> 00:31:41.880 Pointe War Memorial. And if you're out there 00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:44.240 and going, I don't know about this place, it's 00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:47.480 beautiful, a beautiful house, beautiful, house 00:31:47.480 --> 00:31:51.440 is the wrong word, mansion, event space right 00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:55.039 on Lake St. Clair. The website is warmemorial 00:31:55.039 --> 00:32:00.910 .org where you can go and look at it. A lot of 00:32:00.910 --> 00:32:05.009 weddings occur there, those sorts of private 00:32:05.009 --> 00:32:11.309 events as well. But Betsy, as we close out here, 00:32:11.950 --> 00:32:14.630 tell us about some of the other areas that you've 00:32:14.630 --> 00:32:17.990 written on and that you've focused on. I certainly 00:32:17.990 --> 00:32:24.069 see that you have your POWMIA shirt on. And I've 00:32:24.069 --> 00:32:26.609 looked at some of your other articles. So elaborate 00:32:26.609 --> 00:32:29.950 a little bit. I try to feature a lot of the POW, 00:32:30.049 --> 00:32:33.609 MIA guys. It's like the Vietnam veterans were 00:32:33.609 --> 00:32:36.329 treated poorly enough, but to completely forget 00:32:36.329 --> 00:32:39.460 about people. who never came back from any war 00:32:39.460 --> 00:32:42.700 is just absolutely unconscionable. So I'll do 00:32:42.700 --> 00:32:45.779 profiles on fellows, usually they're Michigan 00:32:45.779 --> 00:32:49.380 guys. If there's a recovered plane or something, 00:32:49.500 --> 00:32:51.720 I'll try to profile each guy in the crew and 00:32:51.720 --> 00:32:54.519 what happened to them. And then how they ended 00:32:54.519 --> 00:32:57.680 up, who was recovered and who wasn't. Just so 00:32:57.680 --> 00:33:00.319 that people can read. One of the guys that I 00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:03.559 profiled that was from, I believe Desert Storm 00:33:03.559 --> 00:33:06.059 that died. I didn't know it. I used to work with 00:33:06.059 --> 00:33:09.039 his mother and she plays bridge here. And all 00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:11.660 of a sudden she said, my name is Roma. And I 00:33:11.660 --> 00:33:16.160 went, are you Trane's mom? And she did this. 00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:20.140 She went, yes, that was my son. And I went, I 00:33:20.140 --> 00:33:23.680 just wrote about your son and she lost it. And 00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:26.799 so I showed her, you know, the article, but I 00:33:26.799 --> 00:33:30.019 just, I try to keep anything that has to do with 00:33:30.019 --> 00:33:32.700 the veterans or particularly the people we're 00:33:32.700 --> 00:33:34.559 still waiting to bring back. I try to keep them 00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:37.140 in people's minds because people, it's like out 00:33:37.140 --> 00:33:39.759 of sight, out of mind. Who cares? And it's like, 00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:42.000 there are people that still care. Whether - And 00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:46.799 there are something like 88 ,000 men primarily 00:33:46.799 --> 00:33:52.089 who are MIA. I mean, it's a big number. It's 00:33:52.089 --> 00:33:54.589 surprising it's such a big number. It's huge. 00:33:54.630 --> 00:33:57.109 Some of the stories are unbelievable. And I end 00:33:57.109 --> 00:33:59.569 up usually a story will start out with, okay, 00:33:59.670 --> 00:34:01.890 this guy looks interesting. And then I start 00:34:01.890 --> 00:34:03.769 going down the rabbit holes, like, wait a minute, 00:34:03.930 --> 00:34:07.710 his son was born. five days after he was killed 00:34:07.710 --> 00:34:10.809 and now the son has always had issues because 00:34:10.809 --> 00:34:12.630 he never met his dad and he feels like he has 00:34:12.630 --> 00:34:15.389 to live up to something so he ends up talking 00:34:15.389 --> 00:34:18.650 to his old co and his co says here's the map 00:34:18.650 --> 00:34:20.829 go walk where your dad did so the kid goes to 00:34:20.829 --> 00:34:23.550 vietnam with his dad's map i mean it's just it 00:34:23.550 --> 00:34:25.610 ends you never know what you come up with writing 00:34:25.610 --> 00:34:27.909 about these guys it's amazing well that's that's 00:34:27.909 --> 00:34:31.590 the beauty of uh being uh the historian is you 00:34:31.590 --> 00:34:36.679 get to do that research and find those stories 00:34:36.679 --> 00:34:39.139 and twists and turns that have been kind of lost 00:34:39.139 --> 00:34:42.300 to time, but are too important to really lose 00:34:42.300 --> 00:34:45.360 to time. You got to get them down on paper or 00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:48.360 you got to get them in a digital format so that 00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:51.480 they're there for the future, don't you? And 00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:55.480 the families want to turn over things to you. 00:34:55.539 --> 00:34:57.599 It's like somebody's interested again. Oh my 00:34:57.599 --> 00:34:59.420 God. Nobody was interested. We thought we were 00:34:59.420 --> 00:35:02.820 forgotten. Trane's friend from high school apparently 00:35:02.820 --> 00:35:06.019 has a bunch of stuff he wants to lay on me. There's 00:35:06.019 --> 00:35:08.980 a book that we're going to be doing. Most of 00:35:08.980 --> 00:35:10.599 the book is going to be done by a lady named 00:35:10.599 --> 00:35:15.219 Lisa Lark. We're going to try to profile everyone 00:35:15.219 --> 00:35:18.530 from the Civil War. forward that happens, they 00:35:18.530 --> 00:35:20.309 want to keep it just a gross point. I wanted 00:35:20.309 --> 00:35:22.809 to do all of Michigan, but I got out and voted 00:35:22.809 --> 00:35:26.949 on that. But I'm going to reprofile, train, and 00:35:26.949 --> 00:35:28.989 get some of the tchotchkes that his friend has, 00:35:29.110 --> 00:35:31.090 or might be like, you know, athletic sweaters 00:35:31.090 --> 00:35:33.010 and stuff like that. Because then once people 00:35:33.010 --> 00:35:35.269 see that, then they bring back and go, these 00:35:35.269 --> 00:35:38.030 were guys. This was somebody's kid. This was 00:35:38.030 --> 00:35:41.150 somebody's husband for three weeks and then he 00:35:41.150 --> 00:35:44.550 was gone, you know. Once you start seeing the 00:35:44.550 --> 00:35:48.090 stuff or handling the stuff, it's just, it gets 00:35:48.090 --> 00:35:50.130 really heavy. It's really heavy to write about 00:35:50.130 --> 00:35:51.769 the blood loan when you start touching their 00:35:51.769 --> 00:35:56.050 stuff. Yeah, it really brings it alive. Betsy 00:35:56.050 --> 00:35:57.909 Alexander from the Grosse Pointe War Memorial, 00:35:58.090 --> 00:36:00.210 we appreciate the time that you've given the 00:36:00.210 --> 00:36:03.030 veterans radio today to talk not only about the 00:36:03.030 --> 00:36:06.949 USS Indianapolis disaster in World War II, But 00:36:06.949 --> 00:36:09.610 bringing it forward to what's still being done 00:36:09.610 --> 00:36:12.090 today to make sure we don't forget all these 00:36:12.090 --> 00:36:15.110 men and women who are in service of the country. 00:36:16.269 --> 00:36:18.650 I really appreciate it, Betsy. Thank you. Thanks 00:36:18.650 --> 00:36:21.510 for having me on. And I want to thank everybody 00:36:21.510 --> 00:36:24.329 for listening to Veterans Radio today. I am Jim 00:36:24.329 --> 00:36:27.210 Fossone. It's been a pleasure to be your host. 00:36:27.329 --> 00:36:30.030 I'm a Veterans disability lawyer at Legal Help 00:36:30.030 --> 00:36:33.949 for Veterans. 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