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We were recently identified 00:02:20.340 --> 00:02:25.120 as the in the 15th spot, if you will, of the 00:02:25.120 --> 00:02:30.060 top 100 veteran -centric podcasts by Feet Spot. 00:02:30.620 --> 00:02:33.020 So really pretty proud of being in the top 15. 00:02:33.659 --> 00:02:38.400 So listen in wherever you're at to veteransradio 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:43.030 .org and its podcasts. We want to welcome to 00:02:43.030 --> 00:02:47.330 Veterans Radio today, historian, author, fellow, 00:02:48.370 --> 00:02:51.250 Quinn Chow, who's going to talk to us about the 00:02:51.250 --> 00:02:55.009 Pacific Atrocities Education Foundation out in 00:02:55.009 --> 00:02:56.930 California, although I think he's actually on 00:02:56.930 --> 00:02:59.569 the East Coast at this point. But Quinn, welcome 00:02:59.569 --> 00:03:03.729 to Veterans Radio. Hi, thank you for having me 00:03:03.729 --> 00:03:07.949 on. Well, let me set this up a little bit. You 00:03:07.949 --> 00:03:12.560 are. as I mentioned, a historian and author specializing 00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:15.379 in the history of global conflict and geopolitics 00:03:15.379 --> 00:03:20.879 in the Asia -Pacific region. You are a 2023 graduate 00:03:20.879 --> 00:03:24.460 summa cum laude from the University of Southern 00:03:24.460 --> 00:03:26.539 California. We always like to have these really 00:03:26.539 --> 00:03:29.300 smart guys on because you can help the rest of 00:03:29.300 --> 00:03:32.139 us regular folk just understand what's going 00:03:32.139 --> 00:03:36.060 on. You had a double major in history and international 00:03:36.060 --> 00:03:40.340 relations. You are a fellow at the Pacific Atrocities 00:03:40.340 --> 00:03:46.219 Education Foundation. And that's an organization, 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:51.180 as I understand it, that started in 2014 by Jenny 00:03:51.180 --> 00:03:56.080 Chen to have a little more focus, a little more 00:03:56.080 --> 00:03:59.139 research, a little more academics on what went 00:03:59.139 --> 00:04:03.099 on in the Asia Pacific region during World War 00:04:03.099 --> 00:04:06.740 II. We tend to focus a little more, I think, 00:04:07.680 --> 00:04:10.219 on European theater, but a whole lot of activities. 00:04:10.340 --> 00:04:14.159 I know my father was over in the Pacific, so 00:04:14.159 --> 00:04:16.819 a lot of activities in the Pacific. But tell 00:04:16.819 --> 00:04:21.259 us how you got involved with the Pacific Atrocious 00:04:21.259 --> 00:04:26.519 Education. Yeah, so I actually got involved with 00:04:26.519 --> 00:04:29.800 Pacific Atrosities Education in the summer of 00:04:29.800 --> 00:04:35.120 2020 during the pandemic. I was of interest in 00:04:35.120 --> 00:04:38.199 the Second World War and in military history 00:04:38.199 --> 00:04:42.759 for quite a long time since I was a... rather 00:04:42.759 --> 00:04:47.980 small child, and by the time that I was done 00:04:47.980 --> 00:04:51.019 with my freshman year of college, I found this 00:04:51.019 --> 00:04:54.259 internship opportunity on the Pacific Atrocities 00:04:54.259 --> 00:04:58.399 Education website, and I applied, and I became 00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:04.439 an intern, and I wrote a book, actually, on the 00:05:04.439 --> 00:05:10.480 China Burma India campaign of World War II. It's 00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:14.939 on Amazon. You can buy it if you are so desire. 00:05:15.259 --> 00:05:20.060 It's called competing empires in Burma Yeah, 00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:22.620 the China -Burma India theater World War two 00:05:22.620 --> 00:05:29.019 and Yeah, I did that and I've actually today 00:05:29.019 --> 00:05:35.160 I just completed a over 400 page book about the 00:05:35.160 --> 00:05:40.139 Kwantung army which was a Japanese army in Manchuria. 00:05:41.300 --> 00:05:47.860 After my fellowship ended in 2020, I basically 00:05:47.860 --> 00:05:53.500 started a new project on the Kwantung Army and 00:05:53.500 --> 00:05:59.300 I've been working on it in the summers and ever 00:05:59.300 --> 00:06:02.240 since I became a fellow at PAE after graduation. 00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:07.620 Today, I finished. I finished the final draft. 00:06:07.759 --> 00:06:10.639 Congratulations. Congratulations. That's got 00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:13.939 to feel great to finally say, OK, that's done. 00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:16.899 Now, are you still in the editing for publications 00:06:16.899 --> 00:06:22.019 phase, or is that all done as well? I just finished 00:06:22.019 --> 00:06:24.579 the editing process. It took a lot out of me 00:06:24.579 --> 00:06:27.660 and I, you know, I've pulled some all -nighters 00:06:27.660 --> 00:06:31.339 here, but I've burnt the candle on both ends 00:06:31.339 --> 00:06:35.379 and gone to the mat, but I think the result will 00:06:35.379 --> 00:06:39.959 end up being worth it in the end. Well, one of 00:06:39.959 --> 00:06:43.220 the things I think Pacific atrocities education 00:06:43.220 --> 00:06:45.459 is trying to do is put a little more scholarly 00:06:45.459 --> 00:06:50.699 research into Hey, what really went on in World 00:06:50.699 --> 00:06:57.259 War II from a Japanese Army perspective? Can 00:06:57.259 --> 00:07:03.259 you talk a little bit about the scholarship and 00:07:03.259 --> 00:07:08.920 the research that Pacific Atrocities has been 00:07:08.920 --> 00:07:11.579 focused on for going on now with something like 00:07:11.579 --> 00:07:17.439 10 years, 10, 11 years? Yes. Generally speaking, 00:07:17.740 --> 00:07:21.920 as you pointed out, in the kind of English -speaking 00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:25.000 world, and even the Western world more generally, 00:07:25.699 --> 00:07:30.100 there is maybe less knowledge about the Asia 00:07:30.100 --> 00:07:35.139 -Pacific theater of World War II. Especially 00:07:35.139 --> 00:07:37.980 anything that happens on the Asian continent, 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:41.339 the Asian mainland, right, I think is very... 00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:46.079 forgotten and overlooked. It was even forgotten 00:07:46.079 --> 00:07:49.139 at all in most cases. I'd say in America, it's 00:07:49.139 --> 00:07:54.600 just kind of not well known that for, you know, 00:07:54.720 --> 00:07:58.060 depending on how you count either four or even 00:07:58.060 --> 00:08:02.060 10 years before the Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor, 00:08:02.660 --> 00:08:08.339 the Chinese were engaged in a pretty high intensity 00:08:08.339 --> 00:08:12.449 conflict with the Japanese for with the Imperial 00:08:12.449 --> 00:08:17.329 Japanese Army. I think at the peak of the Imperial 00:08:17.329 --> 00:08:22.569 Japanese Army's kind of deployment to China, 00:08:23.110 --> 00:08:27.889 I think there's somewhere around 1 .5 or 1 .6 00:08:27.889 --> 00:08:32.750 million troops that were deployed. And they were 00:08:32.750 --> 00:08:36.789 these obviously being tied down to this extent 00:08:36.789 --> 00:08:42.009 in a country so big and vast as China is a bit 00:08:42.009 --> 00:08:47.039 of a strategic blunder. from the perspective 00:08:47.039 --> 00:08:54.419 of Japan, but more to the question, we basically 00:08:54.419 --> 00:08:59.100 write about and try to inform. English -speaking 00:08:59.100 --> 00:09:02.259 audiences about a variety of different topics, 00:09:03.799 --> 00:09:08.440 mainly and especially the various atrocities 00:09:08.440 --> 00:09:12.100 the Imperial Japanese Army committed on the Asian 00:09:12.100 --> 00:09:16.120 mainland in their campaigns of imperial aggression, 00:09:16.740 --> 00:09:21.870 but also the campaigns themselves, the military 00:09:21.870 --> 00:09:26.269 history and the operational history, if you will, 00:09:26.309 --> 00:09:30.750 we try to tell that. I actually kind of see myself 00:09:30.750 --> 00:09:36.750 as being a bit of an ops guy. So that's, we try 00:09:36.750 --> 00:09:40.230 to strike a fine balance, but there is definitely 00:09:40.230 --> 00:09:46.070 an emphasis on the atrocities that the Imperial 00:09:46.070 --> 00:09:50.669 Japanese Army committed during the war. And a 00:09:50.669 --> 00:09:52.889 lot of this, as you mentioned, I don't think 00:09:52.889 --> 00:09:56.250 we in the United States really have maybe been 00:09:56.250 --> 00:09:59.769 exposed to it, in part because Hollywood hasn't 00:09:59.769 --> 00:10:02.909 done its bit to make the right movies, right? 00:10:03.669 --> 00:10:08.509 There are hundreds of books and videos that Pacific 00:10:08.509 --> 00:10:12.610 Atrocities has put up on its website, which is 00:10:12.610 --> 00:10:20.429 pacificatrocities .org. follow Saigon, follow 00:10:20.429 --> 00:10:24.710 Singapore, I mean, the China -Burma -India War, 00:10:25.950 --> 00:10:30.769 Philippines resistance, and then Unit 731, which 00:10:30.769 --> 00:10:32.769 I want you to talk a little bit about because 00:10:32.769 --> 00:10:36.409 I don't know anything about this. And as you 00:10:36.409 --> 00:10:42.590 say, you've written research and written on the 00:10:42.590 --> 00:10:45.590 China -Burma -India Theater and the Kwantung 00:10:45.590 --> 00:10:49.889 Army. Kind of give us give us at a high level 00:10:49.889 --> 00:10:52.750 those things which we just haven't yet focused 00:10:52.750 --> 00:11:02.009 on In that area Yes, so There's a lot to unpack 00:11:02.009 --> 00:11:08.090 in both cases With regards to the China Burma 00:11:08.090 --> 00:11:12.750 India theater is very noteworthy for being a 00:11:12.750 --> 00:11:19.330 very multinational theater You have Chinese, 00:11:19.649 --> 00:11:23.809 you have Indians, you have West Africans, you 00:11:23.809 --> 00:11:30.289 have various different types of the Bermans and 00:11:30.289 --> 00:11:33.389 people who would not call themselves Berman from 00:11:33.389 --> 00:11:37.309 what's now called Myanmar. You obviously have 00:11:37.309 --> 00:11:40.149 the Japanese, you have Americans, you have British 00:11:40.149 --> 00:11:47.870 and et cetera down the line. diverse pool of 00:11:47.870 --> 00:11:54.309 people that are fighting over Burma, which was 00:11:54.309 --> 00:11:57.669 primarily important in a strategic sense because 00:11:57.669 --> 00:12:02.389 it is a route by which the allies, Britain and 00:12:02.389 --> 00:12:08.110 America, could send China weapons, oil, and supplies, 00:12:08.289 --> 00:12:15.100 at least up through the spring of 1942 when Burma 00:12:15.100 --> 00:12:19.639 fell after a series of kind of rapid Japanese 00:12:19.639 --> 00:12:24.059 outflanking maneuvers of the defenders and the 00:12:24.059 --> 00:12:28.840 shall we say less than optimal preparation and 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:31.840 deployment of those said defenders to kind of 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:38.429 give you an idea of the unpreparedness of the 00:12:38.429 --> 00:12:41.870 British defenders in Burma during the first Burma 00:12:41.870 --> 00:12:47.370 campaign, you had one division defending 400 00:12:47.370 --> 00:12:53.429 miles of frontage. For reference, divisions should 00:12:53.429 --> 00:12:56.529 probably defend somewhere around 10 kilometers 00:12:56.529 --> 00:13:02.970 of frontage in World War II. 400 miles is in 00:13:02.970 --> 00:13:05.850 almost even if the terrain is totally impassable 00:13:05.850 --> 00:13:11.309 would be Quite a bit still to ask of one division. 00:13:11.549 --> 00:13:16.909 That's a rabbit hole With regard to Queen let 00:13:16.909 --> 00:13:23.509 me ask you this Were the mistakes which Britain 00:13:23.509 --> 00:13:28.250 the US made in some of these actions in Asia 00:13:29.160 --> 00:13:31.419 in part because they just didn't know what the 00:13:31.419 --> 00:13:33.419 heck they were getting into. They were unfamiliar 00:13:33.419 --> 00:13:37.220 with that part of the world, or did they just 00:13:37.220 --> 00:13:42.039 truly underestimate the capabilities of the Imperial 00:13:42.039 --> 00:13:47.080 Army and maybe the Chinese forces as well? After 00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:50.899 you've done all this research, what are your 00:13:50.899 --> 00:13:54.200 thoughts on some of those strategic or operational 00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:59.389 mistakes that were made? The case of the British, 00:13:59.570 --> 00:14:03.549 especially early in the war, and even to an extent 00:14:03.549 --> 00:14:08.570 the Americans as well, there was an underestimation 00:14:08.570 --> 00:14:11.529 of the Japanese, the Imperial Japanese Army, 00:14:11.549 --> 00:14:17.070 that was rather severe. In part, it was kind 00:14:17.070 --> 00:14:21.090 of a byproduct of the prejudices of the day, 00:14:21.629 --> 00:14:28.659 the kind of the racism, to put it bluntly. You 00:14:28.659 --> 00:14:32.379 had some, you know, British soldiers and airmen 00:14:32.379 --> 00:14:34.679 who didn't think the Japanese could be good pilots 00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:40.340 or design good aircraft. And then they found 00:14:40.340 --> 00:14:43.759 out that the Japanese had established air superiority 00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:47.080 over Malaya and Singapore in the matter of a 00:14:47.080 --> 00:14:56.960 few days. But really, it's... It's a combination 00:14:56.960 --> 00:15:03.879 of poorly appraising the enemy and also not being 00:15:03.879 --> 00:15:10.440 prepared to fight against an enemy that is weaponizing 00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:15.679 surprise, rapid light infantry out flanking maneuvers, 00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:24.610 and being ready for the jungle warfare. essentially, 00:15:25.809 --> 00:15:31.950 that there was an element of unpreparedness of 00:15:31.950 --> 00:15:36.490 defending the jungle. There's too much just focusing 00:15:36.490 --> 00:15:43.009 on cleared areas and key roads and kind of maintaining 00:15:43.009 --> 00:15:49.370 defenses in these places, but not in the, shall 00:15:49.370 --> 00:15:54.120 we say, less though still less traversable though 00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:58.940 still passable terrain. I know I'm jumping all 00:15:58.940 --> 00:16:02.879 around and there's way too much to cover here 00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:06.639 and we'll probably have to do this again but 00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:10.740 let me because I think Jenny would want to make 00:16:10.740 --> 00:16:14.500 sure we talk some not only about some of those 00:16:14.500 --> 00:16:17.779 operational issues but the atrocities themselves 00:16:17.779 --> 00:16:22.330 I think that's what shook her in 2014 to say, 00:16:22.450 --> 00:16:25.370 wow, I didn't know the Imperial Japanese Army 00:16:25.370 --> 00:16:31.330 did that. It is shocking. And that's what she's 00:16:31.330 --> 00:16:33.590 trying to make sure doesn't get lost to history. 00:16:33.990 --> 00:16:37.730 Can you give us a little bit of insight into 00:16:37.730 --> 00:16:44.809 those or that area? Of course. So I just completed 00:16:44.809 --> 00:16:48.950 a book on the Kwantung Army and one of the kind 00:16:48.950 --> 00:16:54.360 of most extreme aspects of the Kwantung Army 00:16:54.360 --> 00:17:00.740 was, as you pointed out, Unit 731. And Unit 731 00:17:00.740 --> 00:17:05.960 was the bacteriological and biological warfare 00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:12.720 element within the Kwantung Army. And its role 00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:22.339 was to test and try and develop bacteriological 00:17:22.339 --> 00:17:24.880 and biological weapons. But the way they did 00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:30.359 this was they experimented on people. And they, 00:17:30.380 --> 00:17:33.960 for instance, would inject people with diseases, 00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:39.900 such as anthrax and syphilis, and try to see 00:17:39.900 --> 00:17:43.359 what happened. They would freeze people. They 00:17:43.359 --> 00:17:46.039 would do experiments where they would try to 00:17:46.039 --> 00:17:52.190 find out the threshold for frostbite and to what 00:17:52.190 --> 00:17:58.750 extent you could survive extreme cold or pressure 00:17:58.750 --> 00:18:05.990 or alternatively live vivisections. They would 00:18:05.990 --> 00:18:10.589 basically take people's vital organs out of their 00:18:10.589 --> 00:18:15.950 body while they were still alive and try to see 00:18:17.099 --> 00:18:20.359 how long it would take for them to die and what 00:18:20.359 --> 00:18:24.099 would happen or they might try to reattach one 00:18:24.099 --> 00:18:30.059 part of the body to another. And this was something 00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:35.380 that was, you know, they made into an industry 00:18:35.380 --> 00:18:40.140 of sorts. They did it at a scale and for a length 00:18:40.140 --> 00:18:47.359 of time that is quite shuddering to think about, 00:18:47.740 --> 00:18:52.039 quite honestly. And the craziest part is, is 00:18:52.039 --> 00:18:55.200 that after the end of World War II, they got 00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:58.200 off the hook, because General MacArthur wanted 00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:02.559 the results from the experiments, and he didn't 00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:06.380 opt to prosecute them at the Tokyo war crimes 00:19:06.380 --> 00:19:11.599 trials. The head of 731 Isshiro, he exchanged 00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:18.150 the results of the experiments for Essentially 00:19:18.150 --> 00:19:25.230 going free There is I think widely known in in 00:19:25.230 --> 00:19:29.710 you know, the United States the certain amount 00:19:29.710 --> 00:19:36.450 of brutality and in the Japanese POW camps I 00:19:36.450 --> 00:19:39.089 think the death rate far exceeded the death rate 00:19:39.089 --> 00:19:44.069 in the German camps As you as you research this 00:19:44.940 --> 00:19:50.019 and thought about some of these atrocities, is 00:19:50.019 --> 00:19:54.920 there an explanation or a rationale for why? 00:19:56.779 --> 00:20:02.359 Well, in terms of Western allied prisoners of 00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:05.000 war in German camps, I think the death rate was 00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:08.799 somewhere around like 3 % or something. It was 00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:13.220 pretty small. In the Japanese prisoner of war 00:20:13.220 --> 00:20:18.259 camps, it was somewhere around 27%. If you were 00:20:18.259 --> 00:20:23.420 alternatively a Chinese prisoner, you were basically 00:20:23.420 --> 00:20:29.740 dead if you got taken prisoner. In most cases, 00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:34.039 there were some instances of guys that would 00:20:34.039 --> 00:20:39.519 be maybe impressed into roles as soldiers in 00:20:39.519 --> 00:20:43.880 a puppet army or puppet militia or made to do 00:20:43.880 --> 00:20:49.799 some kind of slave labor. By and large, the Imperial 00:20:49.799 --> 00:20:53.019 Japanese Army did not take Chinese prisoners. 00:20:53.980 --> 00:21:00.940 They killed a lot of them. That was their modus 00:21:00.940 --> 00:21:07.849 operandi. One of the reasons that IJA treated 00:21:07.849 --> 00:21:11.130 prisoners so badly was because of the culture 00:21:11.130 --> 00:21:14.869 that was kind of fostered within the IJA for 00:21:14.869 --> 00:21:20.130 basic training on forward. So there was frequent 00:21:20.130 --> 00:21:27.190 corporal punishment from NCOs that was inflicted 00:21:27.190 --> 00:21:32.170 on the enlisted ranks during basic training and 00:21:32.170 --> 00:21:39.470 even after. And this was quite common. Officers 00:21:39.470 --> 00:21:43.190 would also sometimes strike their subordinates. 00:21:47.210 --> 00:21:51.529 All the while, these men are being kind of inculcated 00:21:51.529 --> 00:21:57.430 with the idea that it's very shameful to surrender. 00:21:58.109 --> 00:22:06.700 It's very shameful to give up. It's not a fighting 00:22:06.700 --> 00:22:11.480 man does not do this. He doesn't give up the 00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:15.180 fight as long as he has a fighting breath. This 00:22:15.180 --> 00:22:19.720 was in many ways a byproduct of the IJA's doctrinal 00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:27.220 emphasis on morale and spirit and Ilan over kind 00:22:27.220 --> 00:22:33.839 of factors such as firepower or numerical superiority 00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:42.539 or material capability. This was, and people 00:22:42.539 --> 00:22:45.680 call it, kind of understand it in terms of Bushido, 00:22:46.380 --> 00:22:51.579 or the way of the warrior. Even really the IJA 00:22:51.579 --> 00:22:56.450 actually in a sense picked and chose what it 00:22:56.450 --> 00:23:00.250 wanted to from the existing tradition or pre 00:23:00.250 --> 00:23:05.589 -existing tradition of Bushido and they basically 00:23:05.589 --> 00:23:13.049 chose the parts that were more suitable to creating 00:23:13.049 --> 00:23:19.630 brainwashed warriors that would kill at the drop 00:23:19.630 --> 00:23:24.960 of a hat and on command. Without any sense of 00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:28.039 humanity right if you're gonna kill all the Chinese 00:23:28.039 --> 00:23:33.779 prisoners And and the death rate in the Japanese 00:23:33.779 --> 00:23:37.299 POW camps for Americans and Australians and British 00:23:37.299 --> 00:23:41.740 so high there's really no sense of humanity there 00:23:41.740 --> 00:23:45.380 was there There's no humanity. It's also worth 00:23:45.380 --> 00:23:52.399 noting that There was Japan went to war with 00:23:52.399 --> 00:23:58.359 limited food supply, right? So you're basically, 00:23:58.500 --> 00:24:03.180 they went to war with only kind of 90 % of the 00:24:03.180 --> 00:24:07.779 food requirements that they needed, which sounds 00:24:07.779 --> 00:24:14.299 okay until you realize that at least probably 00:24:14.299 --> 00:24:17.539 five to 10 % of the population is going to starve 00:24:17.539 --> 00:24:22.059 because of that, if not more. when you take into 00:24:22.059 --> 00:24:28.220 account infrastructure and kind of various inefficiencies 00:24:28.220 --> 00:24:32.500 and things of that nature. So, you know, for 00:24:32.500 --> 00:24:35.539 instance, in Vietnam, towards the end of the 00:24:35.539 --> 00:24:38.619 war in 1944 and five, you had over a million 00:24:38.619 --> 00:24:43.119 people starved to death because the Japanese 00:24:44.529 --> 00:24:48.390 infantrymen were kind of left to wither on the 00:24:48.390 --> 00:24:52.230 vine. Their logistical situation had collapsed, 00:24:52.670 --> 00:24:56.970 in part because of the American submarine campaign 00:24:56.970 --> 00:25:01.210 in the latter years of the war, and in part because 00:25:01.210 --> 00:25:05.789 the IJA's logistical system was very flawed and 00:25:05.789 --> 00:25:11.589 limited to begin with. But They yeah, we're basically 00:25:11.589 --> 00:25:17.210 just going around forging for food and Basically, 00:25:17.630 --> 00:25:20.890 yes stealing it from they didn't need another 00:25:20.890 --> 00:25:26.089 mouth to feed However, you were a prisoner, but 00:25:26.089 --> 00:25:28.589 let me ask you this as we kind of run through 00:25:28.589 --> 00:25:35.130 some time here and Why is it why is it important 00:25:35.130 --> 00:25:41.269 that the work of the Pacific Atrocious Education 00:25:41.269 --> 00:25:46.289 move forward. What is it as an author, a historian, 00:25:47.170 --> 00:25:51.549 a researcher? Give us that sort of big picture 00:25:51.549 --> 00:25:54.150 view of why it's important not to forget this. 00:25:56.089 --> 00:25:59.029 Well, it's important for several reasons. For 00:25:59.029 --> 00:26:04.690 one thing, it's within living memory. And there 00:26:04.690 --> 00:26:10.180 is also a historical memory of all the atrocities 00:26:10.180 --> 00:26:13.079 and misdeeds that the Imperial Japanese Army 00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:17.660 committed in Asia during the war. So in China, 00:26:17.700 --> 00:26:23.640 for example, I think this month, you have films 00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:27.710 being released about Unit 731. And also about 00:26:27.710 --> 00:26:31.289 the rape of Nanking which is probably the more 00:26:31.289 --> 00:26:35.269 Iris Chang wrote a very famous book entitled 00:26:35.269 --> 00:26:41.150 the rape of Nanking I think back in 2003 and 00:26:41.150 --> 00:26:45.509 it did a very good job of chronicling how the 00:26:45.509 --> 00:26:49.869 Imperial Japanese Army Basically slaughtered 00:26:49.869 --> 00:26:53.579 probably hundreds of thousands of Chinese in 00:26:53.579 --> 00:27:04.599 Nanking after the fall of the city. These events 00:27:04.599 --> 00:27:11.740 and these historical occurrences are still within 00:27:11.740 --> 00:27:20.579 living memory of many people in East Asia. I 00:27:20.579 --> 00:27:28.400 think that Japan has not really adequately apologized 00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:34.240 for any of the atrocities that it committed during 00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:40.619 the war. And I must say that the American government 00:27:40.619 --> 00:27:46.650 in the post -war era made a conscious decision 00:27:46.650 --> 00:27:51.470 to empower certain elements within Japan that 00:27:51.470 --> 00:27:57.690 were complicit or in some cases more than complicit 00:27:57.690 --> 00:28:00.630 in the war crimes that were committed during 00:28:00.630 --> 00:28:03.630 the war. So to give an example, there is a fellow 00:28:03.630 --> 00:28:08.809 named Kishi Nobusuke who oversaw the economy 00:28:08.809 --> 00:28:14.319 and industrialization of Manchuria. And he was 00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:21.519 using slave labor in the millions to basically 00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:25.839 build a military industrial complex in Manchuria. 00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:31.720 But after the war, he was... Basically, he became 00:28:31.720 --> 00:28:34.420 the prime minister of Japan in the late 50s with 00:28:34.420 --> 00:28:40.380 the help of the American CIA, and his grandson, 00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:45.559 a fellow by the name of Abe Shinzo, became the 00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:50.720 prime minister of Japan. So there is a pretty 00:28:50.720 --> 00:28:56.000 straight line that can be drawn between the various 00:28:56.650 --> 00:29:00.670 figures that emerged from the dust of World War 00:29:00.670 --> 00:29:05.569 II and that emerged from the result of World 00:29:05.569 --> 00:29:10.930 War II into the relatively contemporary period. 00:29:12.650 --> 00:29:15.950 That ripple carries forward right to today. Yep, 00:29:16.650 --> 00:29:20.849 that's right. I want to encourage people who 00:29:20.849 --> 00:29:24.630 find this conversation interesting, unknown to 00:29:24.630 --> 00:29:30.180 them. Pacificatrocities .org, it has stories, 00:29:30.539 --> 00:29:36.640 it has links to books, it has archives, history 00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:40.880 issues, videos, there's a lot more information 00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:45.119 here that you can get. And I think it's worthy 00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:48.140 to delve into, as we say, it ripples to today 00:29:48.140 --> 00:29:54.250 through Japan and... There are probably that 00:29:54.250 --> 00:29:57.309 probably there are lessons to be learned about 00:29:57.309 --> 00:30:00.109 the mistakes that were made leading up to World 00:30:00.109 --> 00:30:04.769 War two as we ignored the the Pacific Asian area 00:30:04.769 --> 00:30:08.309 and then miscalculated what was really going 00:30:08.309 --> 00:30:13.289 on so very interesting and I really appreciate 00:30:13.289 --> 00:30:19.309 your time quinch Oh author historian fellow with 00:30:19.309 --> 00:30:23.059 Pacific atrocities education And I want to thank 00:30:23.059 --> 00:30:25.259 everybody for listening to Veterans Radio today. 00:30:25.400 --> 00:30:28.660 I am Jim Fossone. It's been a pleasure to be 00:30:28.660 --> 00:30:31.519 your host. I'm a Veterans disability lawyer at 00:30:31.519 --> 00:30:33.940 Legal Help for Veterans and you can reach us 00:30:33.940 --> 00:30:40.220 at 800 -693 -4800 or legalhelpforveterans .com 00:30:40.220 --> 00:30:43.160 on the web. 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