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So wherever you are, you can find us, whether
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Radio podcast. We post something new every week
and you're going to find it informative. We want
to welcome to Veterans Radio today, Herm Brewer.
Herm is an Army veteran. He's going to tell us
a fascinating story about his involvement with
getting the Medal of Honor awarded, was really
an upgrade of an award for Ken David, who he
met down in Trumbull County, Ohio. So, Herm,
welcome to Veterans Radio. Thanks for having
me, Jim. Well, this is a great opportunity to
peel the curtain back a little bit and find out
what really goes on to get somebody awarded the
Medal of Honor. And then, interestingly, hey,
what's it like at the White House? But let's
start here. Tell us a little bit about your service.
Sure. So I'm an Army veteran. I was actually
born during Vietnam, born July 28, 1968. Ironically,
The same day, one of my father's second cousins
was killed in Vietnam. So I always had kind of
this strange fascination with the war in Vietnam
growing up. And so fast forward that to in school,
I was going to join the army, decided at the
last minute to go to college instead. While I
was in college, enlisted in the Pennsylvania
Army National Guard. And while I was at boot
camp, something happened called Operation Desert
Shield. So unit that I was with at Fort Sill,
because I was an artilleryman at the time. Well,
except for the National Guardsmen, those artillerymen
in that cohort unit were destined to go to Jump
School and then 82nd Airborne Artillery. So they
were headed straight to the desert from basically
from boot camp and Jump School. And so I volunteered
in that first round and they didn't call me up.
I got out of the Guard in 1996. re -enlisted
in the Guard after September 11th. Same field
artillery unit got called up to become military
police in Iraq. While I was in Iraq, I was tasked
to be personal security for commanding General
Ham and his staff in Mosul, Iraq. I was wounded
by a roadside bomb on March 24th, 2004. came
home from the deployment in 2005. I was returned
to duty wounded and came home from Iraq in 2005.
When I returned to the workforce and went to
apply to the VA for benefits, I was sent to the
county veteran office and lo and behold, the
county veteran service officer there at the time
was wounded in Vietnam, and he and I developed
a friendship and asked me to come and work in
the office. And I did that and I never looked
back. So that started my life as a veteran advocate.
And you spent 19 years, I think I read, as a
veteran service officer for Trumbull County.
That's right. Yep. And so, and what an opportunity
that is, you know, you meet people with all types
of service from, you know, retired with 30 years
of service, all the way down to the ones who
didn't quite fit the bill. So, but yeah, so was
able to hear in my early years of being a county
veteran service officer, some fantastic World
War II stories. And I mean, from every type of
service, some just great stories over the years.
And one of the very first stories that I can
share with you before we get into the story of
Ken, because it kind of segues into that. So.
I went to a nursing home in the area and spoke
with some World War II, maybe a Korean War veteran,
splashed in there. But it was a room, just a
small room, and there was maybe 10 or 15 individuals
in the room. And one of the gentlemen that was
standing, and he was in pretty good shape at
the time, he was a POW in Germany. And I knew
him and had a rapport with him. And I said, just
off the top of my head, I said, did there happen
to be any other POWs here in the room? And out
of this small room, I didn't expect anybody to
raise their hand. This little gentleman raised
his hand in a wheelchair and said he was a Batan
Death March survivor. I really was shocked because
I wasn't familiar with him, nor was the other
POW that was in the room. So this individual
and I started to talk and we had a long talk
and found out that not only was he a Batan Death
March survivor, but he also escaped from his
Japanese captors and lived in the jungles in
the Philippines for an additional four years.
And he was getting 10 % disability from the VA,
of course. Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy. And he said
all he wanted to be able to do was to be able
to get his depends from the VA and he wasn't
able to do that. I said, well, I think I can
do a little bit more for you than that. And lo
and behold, He was able to share with us his
entire story. I utilized some of the contacts
that I had from my time. Since I was awarded
the Purple Heart by General Ham himself, I contacted
the General's office. He was USAR commander at
the time. He put me in touch with his G3, and
we were able to get a Bronze Star Medal for this
individual. And just based upon his service,
not a lot of Uh, not a lot of research was required.
So at that same time, Ken, David, um, before
we get to Ken, because this is the crux of the
story, but it's how you found yourself going,
Hey, I can help people with their metals and
whatnot. And veteran service officers do that
on an occasional basis. Rarely do you bump into
a POW with that kind of story, but it's also
the reason why, and we're talking to Herm Brewer,
it's the reason why Ken, or Herm here at Veterans
Radio, we try to tell these stories. That gentleman's
story went to the grave with him, but for his
happening to raise his hand from his wheelchair
and saying, yeah, I was kind of involved and
escaped in the jungle for four years. What an
amazing story. Jim, that's that story is definitely
longer than Ken's story. I can tell you that
because that was an amazing story. Really amazing.
We may come back and do that story. So so I'll
just I'll just I'll just tease you with one through
the four years that he was there and he documented
everything when he came home in nineteen forty
five and the newspaper printed it. But. one of
the founders of modern day special forces was
in the jungle at the time. And he was assembling
the Americans that had scattered into the jungles.
And these guys came across him. So we're going
to we're going to catch her back. There's a great
story here we're going to tell so we don't lose
it to history. Yeah. But it's that experience
and your involvement with the local. disabled
American veterans post that sort of brought somebody
to you who said, you know, you got to listen
to this Ken David guy's story. Yep. See what,
see what you think. Tell us how that happened.
Yeah. So, um, and, and I was familiar with Ken
before, you know, they, they brought the case
into my office. You know, he actually was working
with my, my predecessor was still there at the
time. Um, but really nobody had a lot of background
in real roll up your sleeves, medals and, you
know, upgrades and things of that nature. Because
the nature of the County Veterans Service Officer
business is focused, hyper -focused on VA disability.
You know, we can dabble in some of those things.
I can send off a request for records. I can do
this and I can do that. But as far as actually
a real responsibility, the County Veterans Service
Officer, technically that's not, it's in their
wheelhouse, but it's not in their wheelhouse.
It's one of the things we're trying to work to
change anyway. Yeah, so that kind of was what
precipitated someone to refer him to me was that
bronze star medal because somebody saw that I
went and did a little bit more than just the
average person by making some contacts of people
that I was networked with just to see what was
possible. So I knew that there were previous
attempts. And I had heard, hey, he got the Distinguished
Service Cross second highest in recognition.
And so Ken and another one of his compadres came
in, and they kind of told me their story of,
hey, we think it's not right that Ken didn't
get the Medal of Honor, so on and so forth. being
in that veteran advocate role, you know, there
were plenty of people that would come to me with
their stories about why they deserved more than
what they got and so forth. So, you know, As
an advocate, you've got to have a little bit
of a degree of skepticism. But then also, you've
got to keep your ears open for the story. And
so that's what I did. And I listened to the story
and listened to the questions that they had had.
Because I think, and I think Ken may have alluded
to it, but the medic who was on the scene that
day was originally awarded the Congressional
Medal of Honor. And that was kind of what caused
Ken and his buddies to have some questions as
to how that happened, but Ken didn't. So that
was really what was brought to me and kind of
dumped on my desk. And so I went back through
my original contacts through General Ham and
said, hey, thanks for helping with the Bronze
Star Medal. Let me, let me give you a little
background. Thanks for picking up the phone.
I got another one for you and it's a lot harder.
Right. Right. And that's exactly what they told
me. They said, uh, they said, you know, whatever
the circumstances surrounding the medic's medal
of honor, um, you can never, uh, you know, uh,
do anything in that would, that would, you know,
negatively impact. the story of the medic. And
I understood that. It's not that we're going
to say, hey, this guy deserved it and that guy
didn't. Because at that point, the medic had
been deceased for 15 years. Unfortunately, took
his own life, I believe, in 1993. So I had the
conversations with them. OK, what would it require?
So on and so forth. And the general, actually,
the general that I was working with, his name
was Larry Gattardi. So Larry was the USOR G3
at the time. So Larry actually forwarded my information,
well, Ken's information through me to the Adjutant
General of the Army at that time, which was General
Pete Muschin. So went through General Mustin's
office. They said, yeah, it sounds like there
may be something here and here is, you know,
what you'll need. And, you know, so that was
like a, it's like about two and a half page list
of documented evidence statements and so forth.
So I can tell you that what Ken had as far as
evidence at that time. Ken had the daily staff
journals, which was extremely helpful. It included
the medevac reports showing who was on which
bird. He had the unit manning roster that showed
everybody's unit line number. So he had a lot
of the specific information about who, what,
when, and where. Didn't have a lot that was going
to fill in the blanks. There were a ton of letters
from people from the community and legislators
about Ken's a nice guy and we think he needs
the Medal of Honor and yeah. It just doesn't
cut it. People feel good doing that, but there
is a very rigorous process here with specific
evidence that's needed. And let's remember, This
is activity that occurred in May of 1970 in Vietnam,
and what year is it now that you've picked this
up and said, okay, let me see if I can help?
At this point, as I'm starting to get into it
and peel the onion back, it's... 2010, 2009 was
like the first like email off to see if this
was something I could look into. So we're 40
years later and you need the command, his commanding
officer to sign an affidavit. There's all kinds
of that two page list they sent you is very specific
about what you need and whether those guys are
alive or not 40 years later. Yeah, and that's
the thing that is is really interesting when
you when you read and literally hit he had this
one of those like rubber made containers with
all of this, the letters and you know, oh, Ken's
a nice guy, just like we're saying. And you know,
the really the thing is that When when you talk
to anybody that would maybe put one of those
letters together or you talk. He deserves listen
but who's gonna do that who's gonna do the work
that's on that two page list nobody's gonna do
that work for you and there is no one in an agency
that's required to put that together for you
the only people that were required to do that.
are your chain of command while you're still
in uniform, right? So, and at this point, we
are 40 years down the road. But just like you're
talking about, yet if we go back through the
chain of command, which I did, but if we have
to go back through somebody's chain of command,
you know, if it's maybe three years after the
fact, maybe you can, maybe you might be able
to. you know google some people and so forth
but we're talking about something that happened
in 1970 where you know the average age of the
combat foot soldier we know was 19 the average
age of their first line leaders was probably
less than 25 those guys are now obviously going
to be closer to 80 years old and then when we
get into you know company commanders battalion
commanders brigade commanders those individuals
at that point are going to be in their 90s and
greater than that. So the ability to kind of
track down a lot of that stuff or to say who's
going to do that, you know, because I do that.
once a month when I when I sit in a veterans
organization meeting and the guy in the very
back row says I think we should do this and you
think well that's interesting that you've got
that great idea to do that so I think you're
volunteering to do that because isn't that always
the case yeah you need so good go be on talk
let's let's see action yeah exactly yeah so And
that was the case for Ken, was that there were
plenty of people that said, oh, I'm gonna put
in a good word for you and I'm gonna do this.
And that process there, because I jumped in in
2009, there were people that started putting
nice letters together in like 1998. So that big
Tupperware Rubbermaid container that he had,
had letters from Governor George Voinovich and
and Senator Mike DeWine and you know, so all
of these letters are in there and that's all
well and good. Let me again put some timeframe
on this. This is 40 years later or more. Yep.
You're working on it from 2010 on. Yep. He doesn't
get President Biden gives him the Medal of Honor
Award. The ceremony is January of 2025. It's
15 more years. How does a guy stay with it? So
we started to put together some requests in maybe
about 2012, just gathering evidence, trying to
understand the process. looking for any avenue
that I can. And what we found was that there
was a really important document that was missing
in Ken's file. And that was the original DA 638.
And so the DA 638 is an Army request for an award.
And the easiest way to explain this because,
you know, even since this has happened that Ken
did receive the upgrade. I still have people
contacting me. Well, I think this is that. And
there's no way that anyone can receive an upgraded
medal unless you can understand what the circumstances
were that got them the award that they got. That's
the reason that the DA 638 is required in the
Medal of Honor upgrade, because there's no way
for them to look at the new DA -638 versus the
old DA -638. So that was the showstopper for
a long time for us. We went around and around.
We tried contacts at the Richard Nixon Library
in California. We tried contacts at the 101st
Airborne Historian. We thought maybe it was a
unit record that maybe we were missing. And those
requests, keep in mind, you put in a request
to an agency like that, you're talking, maybe
you'll hear back in about eight months. And maybe
they lost it or, and certainly personnel has
rotated. Oh yes, yep. And that happened quite
often. So we did put in some requests before
we got the 638. most of those requests would
come back saying, thank you for your interest
in seeking the Medal of Honor upgrade. However,
you're missing this. So at one point in this
process, and I think it's important to note that,
of course, I've got a regular job too. So in
this time period, I'm assisting veterans with
a multitude of other of other things. But in
2016, I became an executive board member for
this National Association of County Veterans
Service Officers, which was now exposing me to
more resources. And through that, I started to
travel more and more to Washington, D .C. And
on one of my travels, and it was in early 2017,
I went personally to the archives at College
Park, Maryland, because this would be where unit
records were kept. And this was really the key
that opened the door. And I don't know if you've
ever taken a trip to the archives at College
Park, but it's very interesting. They only let
in so many visitors at a time. You have to have
a visitor's pass. Once you have the visitor's
pass, they screen you to make sure that you don't
have any telephones on you. pens or anything
that can destroy the documents that you're going
to look at and they give you a pencil and a blank
index card and they tell you which floor you
might find the files on that you're looking for.
And there are some files that are open to the
public much like a library but then the majority
of the files that are stored at College Park
are archived and you have to have an archivist
You have to tell them what it is. That's why
you have the index card. This is what I'm looking
for. They go back into their cubby hole and see
what they can find. And so that's what I did,
knowing that unit records from 101st could have
possibly been stored there. And I asked them
for all requests for awards from May of 1970
through January of 1971, just in the off chance
that it was misfiled or something. looking specifically
because my request you had to tell them specifically
what your request is for and you had to have
authorization for that release and I was looking
for Ken David's Distinguished Service Cross DA
638 and unfortunately they came back and they
said no they didn't have his original DA 638
so I said okay I thought about it for a minute
before I told them thank you and turned around
and left. And I said, is there a chance that
you can tell me if you have the Medal of Honor
packet for Kenneth Case? And they said. That
being the medic on the same day in the same firefight
against, I think I read it's about 300 enemy
fighters had zeroed in on company D's position,
which had 50 or 60 soldiers. And he was a medic
for that. Absolutely. Yep. So and they, they
confirmed that they did, but also they also confirmed
that I didn't have a release for that pile of
information. So I came back home and um hat in
hand and contacted our local representative's
office and our local representative um at the
time it was Tim Ryan but he was uh he was fortunate
enough to have a defense fellow in his office
in Washington and um you know, if there's anybody
out there that is in legislature, I would encourage
you to have a defense fellow in your office in
Washington, because they speak a different language
than other liaisons do. So the defense fellow,
the first defense fellow was a Harvard grad.
He was a, I don't know, Navy rank Lieutenant
Commander. And so he was able to kind of help
me a little bit. and helped me to understand,
OK, Herm, here's kind of what is being requested
from the Army Awards branch. Let's go through
and take a look at your evidence. And fortunately,
those fellows are only assigned to those offices
for a period of time. That individual left and
we wound up getting an Army officer, Lieutenant
Colonel, who was really sharp and understood
the medal process. And I understood the medal
process a little bit from my time. After I was
wounded and came home, worked in the first sergeant's
office a little bit and had a little bit of experience
in writing up commendation medals and achievement
medals and so forth. So I understood that it
was a process and you had to follow that process.
So my training as a county veteran service officer
kind of came into play because now I was starting
to understand, you know, okay, dealing with the
Department of Veterans Affairs, I understand
it's a process. There are things they want to
see. So for all those years of just saying, here
it is, here's what we have and sending, submitting
that and getting back those denials. I started
to understand more and more and more that unless
I hit every one of those bullets, they're not
even going to look at this packet. And that's
what was happening. Particularly true at awards
and DACA. I mean, they are very particular. And
I want to back up because without some sort of
congressional if you will, professional help,
this wouldn't have been done. And again, we'll
remind folks this is a Congressional Medal of
Honor, although awarded by the president. There
are requirements about how soon after the action
that you can be awarded it through command. So
40 some years later, you're going to need an
act of Congress to open back up the timeframe
to allow Ken to get the award based on what the
Army says and what the president says, correct?
Exactly. Yeah. So one of those bullets in there
is you have to be able to prove that you are
providing something new and material that could
not have been known to the chain of command at
the time. So now, and looking at the chain of
command, so his platoon leader was killed instantly.
His company commander was killed July 20th. So
there were two big parts of his immediate chain
of command that would have been aware of his
DSC otherwise but for being killed. So there
would be no way that those individuals would
know anything that is new because they're deceased.
And we were able to kind of prove that. The new
defense fellow now was able to get the Congressional
Medal of Honor packet for Kenneth Case from the
archives. We were able to take that packet then
and line it up next to Ken's to determine what
we were missing. We were able to determine his
entire chain of command based on that packet
because it showed every signature from the eyewitnesses
on forward. Um, one of the, you know, some of
the other items that were on that list. So I'll
go through that with you. Uh, so I'm going to,
I'm going to speed you up a little bit because
otherwise we're going to run out of run out of
time here. And again, all this work gets done,
the stuff gets, uh, pulled together gets submitted.
How long between the submittal and, and if you
will, the phone call, because what typically
happens is the army starts going, starts making
calls to, in this instance, can say, now we want
to ask you about this. And at some point, those
phone calls change from just informational to
something's coming. What are we talking time
wise? Cause as I say, you worked on this for
15 years. Yeah. So The final completed packet,
I want to say it was 2019 that it was submitted.
And from the time that the final packet was submitted,
I had a face -to -face, well, Zoom call with
the adjutant general of the Army in 2020 with
our congressional representative. just to try
and determine what the status was. It had been
with them for over a year at that point. We were
able to lock down that the board, which is comprised
of a couple officers at the very front gate,
the board was able to give it a, and I forget
their language, but it's something like they
didn't say no. okay so they didn't say no they
didn't say yes but they didn't say no it's a
partial win right which means it moves forward
so it moved to the secretary of the army's office
um sometime around uh let's see 2021 it moved
to the secretary of the army's office and As
it was moving through the Secretary of the Army's
office, I was trying to utilize all contacts
that we could to try and figure out what was
going on there. We didn't have a lot of communication
back from 2021 until Secretary Austin notified
us in August of 2023. I want to say it was August
of 2023. Yes, it was Secretary Austin signed
it August 8, 2023. And that told us then that
it was moved to the White House. So once it moved
to the White House, I tried to find contacts
with them because at that point, it's cloaked
in complete secrecy. the the Pentagon, I was
at least kind of able to kind of track down.
OK, where's the packet now? Where's the packet
now? So as it dragged through, you know, through
the halls of the Pentagon and then through the
halls of the White House, it was extremely frustrating
because, you know, you know that this that's
Ken's story is is a story that's worthy of this
upgrade. And you know now that it's being scrutinized
by you know, top brass, top administrative officials.
And once it got to the White House, and we knew
it was at the White House in August of 2023,
I believe that Ken received a phone call in the
summer of 2024 from Army Awards branch saying,
hey, we're tracking this and we want to ask you
some questions just as you had alluded to. And
then from that point, I believe it was Halloween
that Ken got the call from the president that
it was coming. Now I want to tell folks, listen
to the interview with Ken David that we did here
on Veterans Radio. We're talking to Herm Brewer,
who is in my terms, the Medal of Honor Sherpa
for Ken David. He carried, put the package with
some other folks together and to carry it up
Mount Everest. It is, you know, these guys are
all. humble about getting the Medal of Honor.
And Ken's a very humble man, worked in HVAC in
Trumbull County, retired from there. And this
is going to change his life, whether he realizes
it in the summer of 2024 or not. And as I said,
in January of 2025, before President Biden leaves
office, he has Ken come in and they have the
ceremony. So It takes a long time, even a long
time to get through the White House. But you
were in the room. Tell us a little bit about
being at the White House for this Medal of Honor
ceremony from 40 years ago for a friend of yours
locally there in Trumbull County. Yeah. It's
tough to put into words because they really you
know, in my eyes, you know, they are treated
as royalty and justly so. So and keep in mind
that Ken's award was with eight posthumous, I
think it was seven or eight posthumous awards
were done at the same time and all of their families
are there too. So the room is packed and you're
hearing story after story, I mean, history that
was not being told before is now being told.
And it's so humbling to be able to be there and
see this, you know, and especially, you know,
with Ken, when I started in trying to help Ken,
his parents were still with us. I think Ken mentioned
to you before Sam Lanza, Sam was kind of a World
War II veterans advocate, DAV, Mr. Veterans Service
Organization. And Sam was kind of the one that
was like, hey, you got to make sure he gets this.
He deserves this. And, you know, and I told Sam
then we were going to do whatever it took. And
we were fortunate enough to be able to see that
all the way through to the end. So the trip to
the White House was so humbling to be able to
see Ken up there getting the award just really
just kind of melted your heart. Well, and it's
a room at that point full of generals and depending
on who else is being awarded admirals and more
brass than you've ever seen before. Yep. The
president's there. I mean, this is, this is,
you know, this is as close as we come to that
type of ceremony. The British do it a lot better,
but right. This is what we do. Give us a reaction
of just sort of like what it was be like in the
room. Yeah, yeah, I mean, you could have heard
it. I mean, you could have literally heard a
pin drop, you know, because there are brass,
like you said, brass everywhere, and not just
the brass that are up front, the generals that
are up front, you know, It essentially the halls
are lined with like majors and colonels directing
you where to go, you know, so and they I mean,
they really pulled out every stop. The Army band
was playing as soon as you walk through the halls
of the White House. And, you know, we were able
to then after the ceremony was over, we were
able to kind of socialize with some of the brass
and the other families as well, you know, because
some of these other families you know there was
a the daughter of a of a Korean War veteran who
was there and actually their family was also
from Ohio and you know unfortunately and and
he was he was not killed in action and his service
also you know just like Ken's just the the story
that is being told and you just feel so happy
for these families to be able to finally see
that their loved one was recognized as well.
And maybe that's where we'll try to bring this
to a conclusion. Thanks for staying on longer
than I asked you to. And we're talking to Herm
Brewer who was a veteran county service officer
for 19 years in Trumbull County. He's now in
the private sector working as a consultant in
this area. But he was the Sherpa for the Medal
of Honor upgrade award for Ken David Talk about
why this is important to the larger community.
I think that's what maybe people don't recognize
is as Yeah, this is great for Ken and his family,
but there's a larger community aspect to this
isn't there? And I think that that's what really
when I look at the whole thing just like you're
saying that And, you know, having served in Iraq
and I know that there were people that I served
with, you know, and there were people that I
served with that probably deserve higher recognitions
than they've received also. And that there are
so many stories like this that will go untold
and that's unfortunate. But for anybody that
thinks that you know, so -and -so received this
medal and that's an injustice that the only way
for you to write that injustice is by you taking
the action to go and make that happen for that
individual. So it wasn't that, you know, there
was somebody who was being derelict in their
duty because that wasn't the case for Ken. You
know, what we were able to prove was that one
out of the chain of command, only one was still
alive and he was 97 years old in a nursing home
in Texas. Oh, boy. And that was General Benjamin
Harrison. But so that was not not to be confused
with Fort Benjamin Harrison. I think he was a
grandson of the guy who was named for Fort Benjamin.
Anyway, but that. That's, that's the whole thing
that there wasn't anybody that was derelict.
And there are hundreds of thousands, maybe even
more stories like this out there. But if you're
going to really be serious about saying so it
so deserves X, Y, and Z, and you feel passionate
about it, well, then you better Be prepared for
an uphill battle and be prepared to roll up your
sleeves because it's going to require some effort.
It's not just going to be somebody's going to
go, oh, you're right. He deserves that. That's
not how it works at all. Yeah. And in the larger
community, I mean, this is as I said, good for
Ken, good for his local DAV, which supported
him. Good for Crumble County that supported him.
All of Ohio for the Midwest. I mean, These awards
recognize our neighbors, our friends, people,
tradesmen that we work with, just regular guys
who will never talk about their story. But this
brings the story to life, doesn't it, Herm? It
really does. And you know, I can't emphasize
what you just said enough because a lot of times,
you know, and they'll all say, well, I was just
doing my job because that's clearly the way that
they see it. But when you're able to kind of
see that from like a 10 ,000 foot view and go,
wait a minute, that was, you know, he was on,
on a part of a larger operation and you can tell
that story, you know, because unfortunately,
sometimes the Sherpa can probably tell the story
better than the recipient can recite the story.
All of knowing all of the other factors involved
that, that came to put it all together. And that's
what's really important is that Yeah, when you
see that injustice, be prepared to be able to
tell that story and tell it effectively so that
way it can, that injustice can get righted. Well,
we certainly appreciate the time, Herm Brewer,
that you've spent with us today on Veterans Radio
to tell us the story of Ken David's upgrade to
the Medal of Honor. Again, these are the sort
of stories you don't want to lose. You want them
if you will, digitized on the internet forever.
And we hope in the future people will go listen
to Ken's story with the interview we did with
him and certainly here with Herm Brewer. And
you'll find articles about Ken if you use your
basic search engines. Herm, thanks for the time
that you gave us today. Absolutely, my pleasure.
Thanks for having me. And I want to thank everybody
for listening to Veterans Radio today. I am Jim
Fossone. It's been a pleasure to be your host.
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