WEBVTT 00:00:05.230 --> 00:00:09.029 All across America and around the world, this 00:00:09.029 --> 00:00:15.150 is Veterans Radio. This is Veterans Radio. Good 00:00:15.150 --> 00:00:18.609 day. I'm Jim Fausone. I'm the Officer of the 00:00:18.609 --> 00:00:20.710 Deck today here on Veterans Radio, and thanks 00:00:20.710 --> 00:00:23.460 for joining us. We've got some interesting stories 00:00:23.460 --> 00:00:25.640 for you. We always want to remind you, you can 00:00:25.640 --> 00:00:28.739 find more about Veterans Radio at its Facebook 00:00:28.739 --> 00:00:32.420 site or at the web, veteransradio .org, where 00:00:32.420 --> 00:00:35.259 we're on the web 24 -7. You can find a lot of 00:00:35.259 --> 00:00:38.299 our podcasts there as well. We post new ones 00:00:38.299 --> 00:00:42.479 every Tuesday, so you can get a new story, a 00:00:42.479 --> 00:00:45.219 new interview, something you didn't know before 00:00:45.219 --> 00:00:49.460 by going to veteransradio .org. Before we get 00:00:49.460 --> 00:00:52.259 started, we want to thank our sponsors. First 00:00:52.259 --> 00:00:55.259 up, we want to thank National Veteran Business 00:00:55.259 --> 00:01:01.060 Development Council, nvbdc .org. It was established 00:01:01.060 --> 00:01:04.379 to certify both service -disabled and veteran 00:01:04.379 --> 00:01:06.659 -owned businesses. You'll find out how they can 00:01:06.659 --> 00:01:12.319 help your business by going to nvbdc .org. We 00:01:12.319 --> 00:01:15.840 want to thank Legal Help for Veterans. Legal 00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:18.939 Help for Veterans fights for veterans disability 00:01:18.939 --> 00:01:22.060 rights all across the nation. You can reach them 00:01:22.060 --> 00:01:30.519 at 800 -693 -4800 or on the web at legalhelpforveterans 00:01:30.519 --> 00:01:36.180 .com. And finally, PuroClean. PuroClean is the 00:01:36.180 --> 00:01:38.760 paramedics of property damage. It provides water 00:01:38.760 --> 00:01:42.019 damage remediation, flood water removal, fire 00:01:42.019 --> 00:01:45.859 and smoke damage remediation, mold removal, biohazard 00:01:45.859 --> 00:01:50.920 cleanup. It also has a focus on veteran franchisees. 00:01:51.239 --> 00:01:54.379 You can learn more about them by going to PuroClean 00:01:54.379 --> 00:01:58.599 .com. We want to give you a little advance notice. 00:01:58.599 --> 00:02:02.560 We're going to have a Veterans Radio event on 00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:07.739 Sunday, September 28, 2025. Radio on the River. 00:02:08.199 --> 00:02:10.879 We're doing a new location on Freedom River in 00:02:10.879 --> 00:02:14.379 Livingston County, Michigan. We want you to save 00:02:14.379 --> 00:02:16.340 the date. We're going to have veteran storytelling 00:02:16.340 --> 00:02:18.740 and guest speakers. We'll have raffle items, 00:02:19.259 --> 00:02:23.580 great local musicians and food. Also, uniquely, 00:02:23.699 --> 00:02:25.879 there's going to be an opportunity to fly in 00:02:25.879 --> 00:02:29.099 a UH -1 Huey from the Michigan Flight Museum 00:02:29.099 --> 00:02:32.240 and maybe you can also win a free ride that way. 00:02:33.180 --> 00:02:36.620 But plan on supporting Veterans Radio either 00:02:36.620 --> 00:02:40.180 by buying tickets or sponsoring Radio on the 00:02:40.180 --> 00:02:45.319 River. Contact us at Dale at VeteransRadio .org 00:02:45.319 --> 00:02:48.800 or Jim at VeteransRadio .org to get more information 00:02:48.800 --> 00:02:51.719 but we'd love to have you come out and we'd certainly 00:02:51.719 --> 00:02:54.599 love to have you sponsor. We just want to remind 00:02:54.599 --> 00:02:59.099 you that Veterans Radio podcasts are available 00:02:59.099 --> 00:03:02.580 on all your favorite streaming platforms including 00:03:02.580 --> 00:03:09.360 RSS .com, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube Podcasts, 00:03:09.419 --> 00:03:12.719 iHeartRadio, and Reeves Across America radio. 00:03:13.400 --> 00:03:16.099 So wherever you are, you can find us, whether 00:03:16.099 --> 00:03:19.219 it's on your mobile phone or your computer or 00:03:19.219 --> 00:03:22.939 your laptop, your tablet, but listen in to Veterans 00:03:22.939 --> 00:03:25.699 Radio podcast. We post something new every week 00:03:25.699 --> 00:03:29.560 and you're going to find it informative. We want 00:03:29.560 --> 00:03:33.800 to welcome to Veterans Radio today, Herm Brewer. 00:03:34.300 --> 00:03:37.189 Herm is an Army veteran. He's going to tell us 00:03:37.189 --> 00:03:40.310 a fascinating story about his involvement with 00:03:40.310 --> 00:03:43.870 getting the Medal of Honor awarded, was really 00:03:43.870 --> 00:03:48.949 an upgrade of an award for Ken David, who he 00:03:48.949 --> 00:03:52.710 met down in Trumbull County, Ohio. So, Herm, 00:03:53.090 --> 00:03:55.889 welcome to Veterans Radio. Thanks for having 00:03:55.889 --> 00:03:58.629 me, Jim. Well, this is a great opportunity to 00:03:58.629 --> 00:04:00.889 peel the curtain back a little bit and find out 00:04:00.889 --> 00:04:04.189 what really goes on to get somebody awarded the 00:04:04.189 --> 00:04:07.189 Medal of Honor. And then, interestingly, hey, 00:04:07.210 --> 00:04:09.909 what's it like at the White House? But let's 00:04:09.909 --> 00:04:12.650 start here. Tell us a little bit about your service. 00:04:13.210 --> 00:04:17.990 Sure. So I'm an Army veteran. I was actually 00:04:17.990 --> 00:04:24.069 born during Vietnam, born July 28, 1968. Ironically, 00:04:24.300 --> 00:04:26.920 The same day, one of my father's second cousins 00:04:26.920 --> 00:04:30.339 was killed in Vietnam. So I always had kind of 00:04:30.339 --> 00:04:36.079 this strange fascination with the war in Vietnam 00:04:36.079 --> 00:04:41.980 growing up. And so fast forward that to in school, 00:04:41.980 --> 00:04:44.279 I was going to join the army, decided at the 00:04:44.279 --> 00:04:46.439 last minute to go to college instead. While I 00:04:46.439 --> 00:04:50.800 was in college, enlisted in the Pennsylvania 00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:55.389 Army National Guard. And while I was at boot 00:04:55.389 --> 00:04:59.910 camp, something happened called Operation Desert 00:04:59.910 --> 00:05:06.790 Shield. So unit that I was with at Fort Sill, 00:05:06.870 --> 00:05:11.219 because I was an artilleryman at the time. Well, 00:05:11.219 --> 00:05:14.639 except for the National Guardsmen, those artillerymen 00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:19.420 in that cohort unit were destined to go to Jump 00:05:19.420 --> 00:05:22.339 School and then 82nd Airborne Artillery. So they 00:05:22.339 --> 00:05:24.800 were headed straight to the desert from basically 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:30.180 from boot camp and Jump School. And so I volunteered 00:05:30.180 --> 00:05:33.920 in that first round and they didn't call me up. 00:05:34.100 --> 00:05:37.860 I got out of the Guard in 1996. re -enlisted 00:05:37.860 --> 00:05:42.579 in the Guard after September 11th. Same field 00:05:42.579 --> 00:05:46.540 artillery unit got called up to become military 00:05:46.540 --> 00:05:50.699 police in Iraq. While I was in Iraq, I was tasked 00:05:50.699 --> 00:05:55.339 to be personal security for commanding General 00:05:55.339 --> 00:06:00.240 Ham and his staff in Mosul, Iraq. I was wounded 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:08.360 by a roadside bomb on March 24th, 2004. came 00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:12.939 home from the deployment in 2005. I was returned 00:06:12.939 --> 00:06:19.420 to duty wounded and came home from Iraq in 2005. 00:06:19.860 --> 00:06:23.420 When I returned to the workforce and went to 00:06:23.420 --> 00:06:27.980 apply to the VA for benefits, I was sent to the 00:06:27.980 --> 00:06:31.920 county veteran office and lo and behold, the 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:34.220 county veteran service officer there at the time 00:06:34.220 --> 00:06:39.279 was wounded in Vietnam, and he and I developed 00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:43.379 a friendship and asked me to come and work in 00:06:43.379 --> 00:06:46.079 the office. And I did that and I never looked 00:06:46.079 --> 00:06:50.660 back. So that started my life as a veteran advocate. 00:06:51.860 --> 00:06:56.579 And you spent 19 years, I think I read, as a 00:06:56.579 --> 00:07:00.060 veteran service officer for Trumbull County. 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:05.529 That's right. Yep. And so, and what an opportunity 00:07:05.529 --> 00:07:08.449 that is, you know, you meet people with all types 00:07:08.449 --> 00:07:12.470 of service from, you know, retired with 30 years 00:07:12.470 --> 00:07:15.410 of service, all the way down to the ones who 00:07:15.410 --> 00:07:19.790 didn't quite fit the bill. So, but yeah, so was 00:07:19.790 --> 00:07:23.129 able to hear in my early years of being a county 00:07:23.129 --> 00:07:26.149 veteran service officer, some fantastic World 00:07:26.149 --> 00:07:33.860 War II stories. And I mean, from every type of 00:07:33.860 --> 00:07:37.120 service, some just great stories over the years. 00:07:37.920 --> 00:07:41.259 And one of the very first stories that I can 00:07:41.259 --> 00:07:43.660 share with you before we get into the story of 00:07:43.660 --> 00:07:47.560 Ken, because it kind of segues into that. So. 00:07:49.579 --> 00:07:52.699 I went to a nursing home in the area and spoke 00:07:52.699 --> 00:07:55.879 with some World War II, maybe a Korean War veteran, 00:07:56.060 --> 00:07:58.860 splashed in there. But it was a room, just a 00:07:58.860 --> 00:08:01.199 small room, and there was maybe 10 or 15 individuals 00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:03.980 in the room. And one of the gentlemen that was 00:08:03.980 --> 00:08:06.060 standing, and he was in pretty good shape at 00:08:06.060 --> 00:08:10.379 the time, he was a POW in Germany. And I knew 00:08:10.379 --> 00:08:12.639 him and had a rapport with him. And I said, just 00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:15.500 off the top of my head, I said, did there happen 00:08:15.500 --> 00:08:18.500 to be any other POWs here in the room? And out 00:08:18.500 --> 00:08:20.560 of this small room, I didn't expect anybody to 00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:22.819 raise their hand. This little gentleman raised 00:08:22.819 --> 00:08:26.459 his hand in a wheelchair and said he was a Batan 00:08:26.459 --> 00:08:30.139 Death March survivor. I really was shocked because 00:08:30.139 --> 00:08:32.840 I wasn't familiar with him, nor was the other 00:08:32.840 --> 00:08:35.799 POW that was in the room. So this individual 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:40.159 and I started to talk and we had a long talk 00:08:40.159 --> 00:08:43.100 and found out that not only was he a Batan Death 00:08:43.100 --> 00:08:46.879 March survivor, but he also escaped from his 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:51.320 Japanese captors and lived in the jungles in 00:08:51.320 --> 00:08:54.039 the Philippines for an additional four years. 00:08:55.899 --> 00:08:59.759 And he was getting 10 % disability from the VA, 00:09:00.039 --> 00:09:03.740 of course. Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy. And he said 00:09:03.740 --> 00:09:05.799 all he wanted to be able to do was to be able 00:09:05.799 --> 00:09:08.419 to get his depends from the VA and he wasn't 00:09:08.419 --> 00:09:10.840 able to do that. I said, well, I think I can 00:09:10.840 --> 00:09:14.200 do a little bit more for you than that. And lo 00:09:14.200 --> 00:09:16.769 and behold, He was able to share with us his 00:09:16.769 --> 00:09:21.230 entire story. I utilized some of the contacts 00:09:21.230 --> 00:09:24.169 that I had from my time. Since I was awarded 00:09:24.169 --> 00:09:27.710 the Purple Heart by General Ham himself, I contacted 00:09:27.710 --> 00:09:30.210 the General's office. He was USAR commander at 00:09:30.210 --> 00:09:34.769 the time. He put me in touch with his G3, and 00:09:34.769 --> 00:09:37.049 we were able to get a Bronze Star Medal for this 00:09:37.049 --> 00:09:41.649 individual. And just based upon his service, 00:09:41.769 --> 00:09:45.289 not a lot of Uh, not a lot of research was required. 00:09:46.389 --> 00:09:51.509 So at that same time, Ken, David, um, before 00:09:51.509 --> 00:09:54.269 we get to Ken, because this is the crux of the 00:09:54.269 --> 00:09:56.570 story, but it's how you found yourself going, 00:09:57.470 --> 00:09:59.370 Hey, I can help people with their metals and 00:09:59.370 --> 00:10:03.049 whatnot. And veteran service officers do that 00:10:03.049 --> 00:10:06.779 on an occasional basis. Rarely do you bump into 00:10:06.779 --> 00:10:09.539 a POW with that kind of story, but it's also 00:10:09.539 --> 00:10:12.600 the reason why, and we're talking to Herm Brewer, 00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:17.700 it's the reason why Ken, or Herm here at Veterans 00:10:17.700 --> 00:10:21.340 Radio, we try to tell these stories. That gentleman's 00:10:21.340 --> 00:10:24.779 story went to the grave with him, but for his 00:10:24.779 --> 00:10:26.899 happening to raise his hand from his wheelchair 00:10:26.899 --> 00:10:30.320 and saying, yeah, I was kind of involved and 00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:33.899 escaped in the jungle for four years. What an 00:10:33.899 --> 00:10:37.220 amazing story. Jim, that's that story is definitely 00:10:37.220 --> 00:10:39.620 longer than Ken's story. I can tell you that 00:10:39.620 --> 00:10:43.639 because that was an amazing story. Really amazing. 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:48.039 We may come back and do that story. So so I'll 00:10:48.039 --> 00:10:50.899 just I'll just I'll just tease you with one through 00:10:50.899 --> 00:10:53.519 the four years that he was there and he documented 00:10:53.519 --> 00:10:56.360 everything when he came home in nineteen forty 00:10:56.360 --> 00:11:00.840 five and the newspaper printed it. But. one of 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:06.320 the founders of modern day special forces was 00:11:06.320 --> 00:11:10.039 in the jungle at the time. And he was assembling 00:11:10.039 --> 00:11:12.899 the Americans that had scattered into the jungles. 00:11:13.019 --> 00:11:16.899 And these guys came across him. So we're going 00:11:16.899 --> 00:11:19.919 to we're going to catch her back. There's a great 00:11:19.919 --> 00:11:21.799 story here we're going to tell so we don't lose 00:11:21.799 --> 00:11:24.620 it to history. Yeah. But it's that experience 00:11:24.620 --> 00:11:27.759 and your involvement with the local. disabled 00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:31.700 American veterans post that sort of brought somebody 00:11:31.700 --> 00:11:33.879 to you who said, you know, you got to listen 00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:37.059 to this Ken David guy's story. Yep. See what, 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:39.080 see what you think. Tell us how that happened. 00:11:39.580 --> 00:11:42.840 Yeah. So, um, and, and I was familiar with Ken 00:11:42.840 --> 00:11:46.000 before, you know, they, they brought the case 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:48.600 into my office. You know, he actually was working 00:11:48.600 --> 00:11:50.580 with my, my predecessor was still there at the 00:11:50.580 --> 00:11:55.759 time. Um, but really nobody had a lot of background 00:11:55.759 --> 00:12:01.049 in real roll up your sleeves, medals and, you 00:12:01.049 --> 00:12:04.309 know, upgrades and things of that nature. Because 00:12:04.309 --> 00:12:06.190 the nature of the County Veterans Service Officer 00:12:06.190 --> 00:12:09.470 business is focused, hyper -focused on VA disability. 00:12:10.090 --> 00:12:12.330 You know, we can dabble in some of those things. 00:12:12.350 --> 00:12:14.830 I can send off a request for records. I can do 00:12:14.830 --> 00:12:17.389 this and I can do that. But as far as actually 00:12:17.389 --> 00:12:20.090 a real responsibility, the County Veterans Service 00:12:20.090 --> 00:12:23.909 Officer, technically that's not, it's in their 00:12:23.909 --> 00:12:26.090 wheelhouse, but it's not in their wheelhouse. 00:12:26.509 --> 00:12:28.350 It's one of the things we're trying to work to 00:12:28.350 --> 00:12:32.750 change anyway. Yeah, so that kind of was what 00:12:32.750 --> 00:12:36.409 precipitated someone to refer him to me was that 00:12:36.409 --> 00:12:38.629 bronze star medal because somebody saw that I 00:12:38.629 --> 00:12:41.549 went and did a little bit more than just the 00:12:41.549 --> 00:12:43.970 average person by making some contacts of people 00:12:43.970 --> 00:12:46.929 that I was networked with just to see what was 00:12:46.929 --> 00:12:50.809 possible. So I knew that there were previous 00:12:50.809 --> 00:12:53.879 attempts. And I had heard, hey, he got the Distinguished 00:12:53.879 --> 00:12:57.679 Service Cross second highest in recognition. 00:12:59.240 --> 00:13:04.600 And so Ken and another one of his compadres came 00:13:04.600 --> 00:13:07.200 in, and they kind of told me their story of, 00:13:07.379 --> 00:13:09.840 hey, we think it's not right that Ken didn't 00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:13.470 get the Medal of Honor, so on and so forth. being 00:13:13.470 --> 00:13:16.629 in that veteran advocate role, you know, there 00:13:16.629 --> 00:13:18.649 were plenty of people that would come to me with 00:13:18.649 --> 00:13:21.250 their stories about why they deserved more than 00:13:21.250 --> 00:13:25.190 what they got and so forth. So, you know, As 00:13:25.190 --> 00:13:27.529 an advocate, you've got to have a little bit 00:13:27.529 --> 00:13:31.470 of a degree of skepticism. But then also, you've 00:13:31.470 --> 00:13:35.509 got to keep your ears open for the story. And 00:13:35.509 --> 00:13:38.210 so that's what I did. And I listened to the story 00:13:38.210 --> 00:13:41.830 and listened to the questions that they had had. 00:13:42.210 --> 00:13:45.330 Because I think, and I think Ken may have alluded 00:13:45.330 --> 00:13:48.190 to it, but the medic who was on the scene that 00:13:48.190 --> 00:13:50.990 day was originally awarded the Congressional 00:13:50.990 --> 00:13:55.220 Medal of Honor. And that was kind of what caused 00:13:55.220 --> 00:13:57.879 Ken and his buddies to have some questions as 00:13:57.879 --> 00:14:02.360 to how that happened, but Ken didn't. So that 00:14:02.360 --> 00:14:05.759 was really what was brought to me and kind of 00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:10.440 dumped on my desk. And so I went back through 00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:14.139 my original contacts through General Ham and 00:14:14.139 --> 00:14:16.279 said, hey, thanks for helping with the Bronze 00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:18.879 Star Medal. Let me, let me give you a little 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:20.679 background. Thanks for picking up the phone. 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:23.080 I got another one for you and it's a lot harder. 00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:26.539 Right. Right. And that's exactly what they told 00:14:26.539 --> 00:14:29.279 me. They said, uh, they said, you know, whatever 00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:32.799 the circumstances surrounding the medic's medal 00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:39.820 of honor, um, you can never, uh, you know, uh, 00:14:40.019 --> 00:14:44.700 do anything in that would, that would, you know, 00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:48.299 negatively impact. the story of the medic. And 00:14:48.299 --> 00:14:50.460 I understood that. It's not that we're going 00:14:50.460 --> 00:14:52.080 to say, hey, this guy deserved it and that guy 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:56.120 didn't. Because at that point, the medic had 00:14:56.120 --> 00:15:00.179 been deceased for 15 years. Unfortunately, took 00:15:00.179 --> 00:15:08.059 his own life, I believe, in 1993. So I had the 00:15:08.059 --> 00:15:10.899 conversations with them. OK, what would it require? 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:15.370 So on and so forth. And the general, actually, 00:15:15.610 --> 00:15:17.269 the general that I was working with, his name 00:15:17.269 --> 00:15:21.350 was Larry Gattardi. So Larry was the USOR G3 00:15:21.350 --> 00:15:27.289 at the time. So Larry actually forwarded my information, 00:15:27.429 --> 00:15:31.389 well, Ken's information through me to the Adjutant 00:15:31.389 --> 00:15:33.730 General of the Army at that time, which was General 00:15:33.730 --> 00:15:37.879 Pete Muschin. So went through General Mustin's 00:15:37.879 --> 00:15:40.480 office. They said, yeah, it sounds like there 00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:44.320 may be something here and here is, you know, 00:15:44.340 --> 00:15:47.700 what you'll need. And, you know, so that was 00:15:47.700 --> 00:15:51.559 like a, it's like about two and a half page list 00:15:51.559 --> 00:15:55.919 of documented evidence statements and so forth. 00:15:57.519 --> 00:16:01.399 So I can tell you that what Ken had as far as 00:16:01.399 --> 00:16:05.450 evidence at that time. Ken had the daily staff 00:16:05.450 --> 00:16:10.549 journals, which was extremely helpful. It included 00:16:10.549 --> 00:16:14.090 the medevac reports showing who was on which 00:16:14.090 --> 00:16:20.769 bird. He had the unit manning roster that showed 00:16:20.769 --> 00:16:25.809 everybody's unit line number. So he had a lot 00:16:25.809 --> 00:16:32.649 of the specific information about who, what, 00:16:32.870 --> 00:16:35.509 when, and where. Didn't have a lot that was going 00:16:35.509 --> 00:16:39.690 to fill in the blanks. There were a ton of letters 00:16:39.690 --> 00:16:42.450 from people from the community and legislators 00:16:42.450 --> 00:16:45.250 about Ken's a nice guy and we think he needs 00:16:45.250 --> 00:16:48.049 the Medal of Honor and yeah. It just doesn't 00:16:48.049 --> 00:16:52.009 cut it. People feel good doing that, but there 00:16:52.009 --> 00:16:55.990 is a very rigorous process here with specific 00:16:55.990 --> 00:16:59.090 evidence that's needed. And let's remember, This 00:16:59.090 --> 00:17:02.970 is activity that occurred in May of 1970 in Vietnam, 00:17:03.490 --> 00:17:05.410 and what year is it now that you've picked this 00:17:05.410 --> 00:17:07.210 up and said, okay, let me see if I can help? 00:17:08.029 --> 00:17:11.269 At this point, as I'm starting to get into it 00:17:11.269 --> 00:17:15.220 and peel the onion back, it's... 2010, 2009 was 00:17:15.220 --> 00:17:18.740 like the first like email off to see if this 00:17:18.740 --> 00:17:22.220 was something I could look into. So we're 40 00:17:22.220 --> 00:17:27.440 years later and you need the command, his commanding 00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:30.500 officer to sign an affidavit. There's all kinds 00:17:30.500 --> 00:17:37.079 of that two page list they sent you is very specific 00:17:37.079 --> 00:17:39.079 about what you need and whether those guys are 00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:42.309 alive or not 40 years later. Yeah, and that's 00:17:42.309 --> 00:17:47.009 the thing that is is really interesting when 00:17:47.009 --> 00:17:51.430 you when you read and literally hit he had this 00:17:51.430 --> 00:17:57.349 one of those like rubber made containers with 00:17:57.349 --> 00:18:01.289 all of this, the letters and you know, oh, Ken's 00:18:01.289 --> 00:18:04.049 a nice guy, just like we're saying. And you know, 00:18:04.109 --> 00:18:07.680 the really the thing is that When when you talk 00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:09.880 to anybody that would maybe put one of those 00:18:09.880 --> 00:18:13.099 letters together or you talk. He deserves listen 00:18:13.099 --> 00:18:16.720 but who's gonna do that who's gonna do the work 00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:20.440 that's on that two page list nobody's gonna do 00:18:20.440 --> 00:18:24.940 that work for you and there is no one in an agency 00:18:24.940 --> 00:18:27.880 that's required to put that together for you 00:18:27.880 --> 00:18:29.980 the only people that were required to do that. 00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:32.019 are your chain of command while you're still 00:18:32.019 --> 00:18:34.740 in uniform, right? So, and at this point, we 00:18:34.740 --> 00:18:38.000 are 40 years down the road. But just like you're 00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:40.700 talking about, yet if we go back through the 00:18:40.700 --> 00:18:43.579 chain of command, which I did, but if we have 00:18:43.579 --> 00:18:45.440 to go back through somebody's chain of command, 00:18:45.980 --> 00:18:49.099 you know, if it's maybe three years after the 00:18:49.099 --> 00:18:51.680 fact, maybe you can, maybe you might be able 00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:54.410 to. you know google some people and so forth 00:18:54.410 --> 00:18:55.950 but we're talking about something that happened 00:18:55.950 --> 00:18:59.509 in 1970 where you know the average age of the 00:18:59.509 --> 00:19:03.150 combat foot soldier we know was 19 the average 00:19:03.150 --> 00:19:05.589 age of their first line leaders was probably 00:19:05.589 --> 00:19:09.029 less than 25 those guys are now obviously going 00:19:09.029 --> 00:19:12.230 to be closer to 80 years old and then when we 00:19:12.230 --> 00:19:16.049 get into you know company commanders battalion 00:19:16.049 --> 00:19:18.650 commanders brigade commanders those individuals 00:19:18.650 --> 00:19:21.609 at that point are going to be in their 90s and 00:19:21.660 --> 00:19:25.660 greater than that. So the ability to kind of 00:19:25.660 --> 00:19:29.200 track down a lot of that stuff or to say who's 00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:32.240 going to do that, you know, because I do that. 00:19:32.380 --> 00:19:34.980 once a month when I when I sit in a veterans 00:19:34.980 --> 00:19:37.720 organization meeting and the guy in the very 00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:41.619 back row says I think we should do this and you 00:19:41.619 --> 00:19:43.599 think well that's interesting that you've got 00:19:43.599 --> 00:19:46.200 that great idea to do that so I think you're 00:19:46.200 --> 00:19:48.640 volunteering to do that because isn't that always 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:51.119 the case yeah you need so good go be on talk 00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:56.470 let's let's see action yeah exactly yeah so And 00:19:56.470 --> 00:19:58.849 that was the case for Ken, was that there were 00:19:58.849 --> 00:20:00.829 plenty of people that said, oh, I'm gonna put 00:20:00.829 --> 00:20:02.890 in a good word for you and I'm gonna do this. 00:20:03.630 --> 00:20:09.009 And that process there, because I jumped in in 00:20:09.009 --> 00:20:12.190 2009, there were people that started putting 00:20:12.190 --> 00:20:17.769 nice letters together in like 1998. So that big 00:20:17.769 --> 00:20:20.690 Tupperware Rubbermaid container that he had, 00:20:20.910 --> 00:20:24.630 had letters from Governor George Voinovich and 00:20:24.670 --> 00:20:29.390 and Senator Mike DeWine and you know, so all 00:20:29.390 --> 00:20:31.410 of these letters are in there and that's all 00:20:31.410 --> 00:20:35.049 well and good. Let me again put some timeframe 00:20:35.049 --> 00:20:38.289 on this. This is 40 years later or more. Yep. 00:20:38.890 --> 00:20:43.250 You're working on it from 2010 on. Yep. He doesn't 00:20:43.250 --> 00:20:47.519 get President Biden gives him the Medal of Honor 00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:51.200 Award. The ceremony is January of 2025. It's 00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:55.759 15 more years. How does a guy stay with it? So 00:20:55.759 --> 00:21:04.019 we started to put together some requests in maybe 00:21:04.019 --> 00:21:07.660 about 2012, just gathering evidence, trying to 00:21:07.660 --> 00:21:12.380 understand the process. looking for any avenue 00:21:12.380 --> 00:21:16.119 that I can. And what we found was that there 00:21:16.119 --> 00:21:19.400 was a really important document that was missing 00:21:19.400 --> 00:21:25.319 in Ken's file. And that was the original DA 638. 00:21:26.339 --> 00:21:31.180 And so the DA 638 is an Army request for an award. 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:36.519 And the easiest way to explain this because, 00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:39.789 you know, even since this has happened that Ken 00:21:39.789 --> 00:21:41.990 did receive the upgrade. I still have people 00:21:41.990 --> 00:21:45.950 contacting me. Well, I think this is that. And 00:21:45.950 --> 00:21:50.390 there's no way that anyone can receive an upgraded 00:21:50.390 --> 00:21:54.849 medal unless you can understand what the circumstances 00:21:54.849 --> 00:21:58.490 were that got them the award that they got. That's 00:21:58.490 --> 00:22:02.190 the reason that the DA 638 is required in the 00:22:02.190 --> 00:22:04.410 Medal of Honor upgrade, because there's no way 00:22:04.410 --> 00:22:08.059 for them to look at the new DA -638 versus the 00:22:08.059 --> 00:22:12.920 old DA -638. So that was the showstopper for 00:22:12.920 --> 00:22:17.420 a long time for us. We went around and around. 00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:20.819 We tried contacts at the Richard Nixon Library 00:22:20.819 --> 00:22:25.779 in California. We tried contacts at the 101st 00:22:25.779 --> 00:22:28.539 Airborne Historian. We thought maybe it was a 00:22:28.539 --> 00:22:33.859 unit record that maybe we were missing. And those 00:22:33.859 --> 00:22:35.900 requests, keep in mind, you put in a request 00:22:35.900 --> 00:22:39.940 to an agency like that, you're talking, maybe 00:22:39.940 --> 00:22:42.900 you'll hear back in about eight months. And maybe 00:22:42.900 --> 00:22:46.299 they lost it or, and certainly personnel has 00:22:46.299 --> 00:22:50.880 rotated. Oh yes, yep. And that happened quite 00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:56.400 often. So we did put in some requests before 00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:01.009 we got the 638. most of those requests would 00:23:01.009 --> 00:23:03.109 come back saying, thank you for your interest 00:23:03.109 --> 00:23:05.769 in seeking the Medal of Honor upgrade. However, 00:23:06.190 --> 00:23:14.950 you're missing this. So at one point in this 00:23:14.950 --> 00:23:17.950 process, and I think it's important to note that, 00:23:17.950 --> 00:23:24.029 of course, I've got a regular job too. So in 00:23:24.029 --> 00:23:26.609 this time period, I'm assisting veterans with 00:23:26.609 --> 00:23:34.279 a multitude of other of other things. But in 00:23:34.279 --> 00:23:42.299 2016, I became an executive board member for 00:23:42.299 --> 00:23:44.680 this National Association of County Veterans 00:23:44.680 --> 00:23:47.539 Service Officers, which was now exposing me to 00:23:47.539 --> 00:23:54.240 more resources. And through that, I started to 00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:57.809 travel more and more to Washington, D .C. And 00:23:57.809 --> 00:24:03.250 on one of my travels, and it was in early 2017, 00:24:04.809 --> 00:24:10.569 I went personally to the archives at College 00:24:10.569 --> 00:24:15.309 Park, Maryland, because this would be where unit 00:24:15.309 --> 00:24:20.450 records were kept. And this was really the key 00:24:20.450 --> 00:24:23.730 that opened the door. And I don't know if you've 00:24:23.730 --> 00:24:26.650 ever taken a trip to the archives at College 00:24:26.650 --> 00:24:31.750 Park, but it's very interesting. They only let 00:24:31.750 --> 00:24:34.289 in so many visitors at a time. You have to have 00:24:34.289 --> 00:24:36.970 a visitor's pass. Once you have the visitor's 00:24:36.970 --> 00:24:39.410 pass, they screen you to make sure that you don't 00:24:39.410 --> 00:24:44.740 have any telephones on you. pens or anything 00:24:44.740 --> 00:24:46.619 that can destroy the documents that you're going 00:24:46.619 --> 00:24:50.359 to look at and they give you a pencil and a blank 00:24:50.359 --> 00:24:53.579 index card and they tell you which floor you 00:24:53.579 --> 00:24:56.579 might find the files on that you're looking for. 00:24:56.759 --> 00:25:00.480 And there are some files that are open to the 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:03.920 public much like a library but then the majority 00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:07.519 of the files that are stored at College Park 00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:10.640 are archived and you have to have an archivist 00:25:11.210 --> 00:25:13.309 You have to tell them what it is. That's why 00:25:13.309 --> 00:25:15.029 you have the index card. This is what I'm looking 00:25:15.029 --> 00:25:18.190 for. They go back into their cubby hole and see 00:25:18.190 --> 00:25:21.730 what they can find. And so that's what I did, 00:25:21.849 --> 00:25:25.049 knowing that unit records from 101st could have 00:25:25.049 --> 00:25:28.450 possibly been stored there. And I asked them 00:25:28.450 --> 00:25:34.349 for all requests for awards from May of 1970 00:25:34.349 --> 00:25:38.170 through January of 1971, just in the off chance 00:25:38.170 --> 00:25:42.680 that it was misfiled or something. looking specifically 00:25:42.680 --> 00:25:45.599 because my request you had to tell them specifically 00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:47.980 what your request is for and you had to have 00:25:47.980 --> 00:25:51.039 authorization for that release and I was looking 00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:54.460 for Ken David's Distinguished Service Cross DA 00:25:54.460 --> 00:25:58.700 638 and unfortunately they came back and they 00:25:58.700 --> 00:26:03.579 said no they didn't have his original DA 638 00:26:03.579 --> 00:26:08.940 so I said okay I thought about it for a minute 00:26:08.940 --> 00:26:11.740 before I told them thank you and turned around 00:26:11.740 --> 00:26:14.839 and left. And I said, is there a chance that 00:26:14.839 --> 00:26:18.380 you can tell me if you have the Medal of Honor 00:26:18.380 --> 00:26:24.099 packet for Kenneth Case? And they said. That 00:26:24.099 --> 00:26:27.660 being the medic on the same day in the same firefight 00:26:27.660 --> 00:26:33.480 against, I think I read it's about 300 enemy 00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:36.200 fighters had zeroed in on company D's position, 00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:39.339 which had 50 or 60 soldiers. And he was a medic 00:26:39.339 --> 00:26:44.220 for that. Absolutely. Yep. So and they, they 00:26:44.220 --> 00:26:47.740 confirmed that they did, but also they also confirmed 00:26:47.740 --> 00:26:50.680 that I didn't have a release for that pile of 00:26:50.680 --> 00:26:55.079 information. So I came back home and um hat in 00:26:55.079 --> 00:26:59.440 hand and contacted our local representative's 00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:03.700 office and our local representative um at the 00:27:03.700 --> 00:27:07.819 time it was Tim Ryan but he was uh he was fortunate 00:27:07.819 --> 00:27:11.579 enough to have a defense fellow in his office 00:27:11.579 --> 00:27:16.269 in Washington and um you know, if there's anybody 00:27:16.269 --> 00:27:19.029 out there that is in legislature, I would encourage 00:27:19.029 --> 00:27:21.049 you to have a defense fellow in your office in 00:27:21.049 --> 00:27:23.470 Washington, because they speak a different language 00:27:23.470 --> 00:27:28.390 than other liaisons do. So the defense fellow, 00:27:28.450 --> 00:27:32.829 the first defense fellow was a Harvard grad. 00:27:33.769 --> 00:27:37.210 He was a, I don't know, Navy rank Lieutenant 00:27:37.210 --> 00:27:43.450 Commander. And so he was able to kind of help 00:27:43.450 --> 00:27:47.109 me a little bit. and helped me to understand, 00:27:47.329 --> 00:27:51.269 OK, Herm, here's kind of what is being requested 00:27:51.269 --> 00:27:54.430 from the Army Awards branch. Let's go through 00:27:54.430 --> 00:27:59.130 and take a look at your evidence. And fortunately, 00:28:01.130 --> 00:28:03.390 those fellows are only assigned to those offices 00:28:03.390 --> 00:28:06.049 for a period of time. That individual left and 00:28:06.049 --> 00:28:10.029 we wound up getting an Army officer, Lieutenant 00:28:10.029 --> 00:28:15.299 Colonel, who was really sharp and understood 00:28:15.299 --> 00:28:18.180 the medal process. And I understood the medal 00:28:18.180 --> 00:28:22.059 process a little bit from my time. After I was 00:28:22.059 --> 00:28:25.359 wounded and came home, worked in the first sergeant's 00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:27.940 office a little bit and had a little bit of experience 00:28:27.940 --> 00:28:32.259 in writing up commendation medals and achievement 00:28:32.259 --> 00:28:34.759 medals and so forth. So I understood that it 00:28:34.759 --> 00:28:38.819 was a process and you had to follow that process. 00:28:39.079 --> 00:28:41.700 So my training as a county veteran service officer 00:28:41.700 --> 00:28:44.660 kind of came into play because now I was starting 00:28:44.660 --> 00:28:47.940 to understand, you know, okay, dealing with the 00:28:47.940 --> 00:28:49.960 Department of Veterans Affairs, I understand 00:28:49.960 --> 00:28:52.680 it's a process. There are things they want to 00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:57.150 see. So for all those years of just saying, here 00:28:57.150 --> 00:29:00.190 it is, here's what we have and sending, submitting 00:29:00.190 --> 00:29:03.250 that and getting back those denials. I started 00:29:03.250 --> 00:29:05.930 to understand more and more and more that unless 00:29:05.930 --> 00:29:08.970 I hit every one of those bullets, they're not 00:29:08.970 --> 00:29:11.150 even going to look at this packet. And that's 00:29:11.150 --> 00:29:13.509 what was happening. Particularly true at awards 00:29:13.509 --> 00:29:18.410 and DACA. I mean, they are very particular. And 00:29:18.410 --> 00:29:22.029 I want to back up because without some sort of 00:29:22.029 --> 00:29:26.309 congressional if you will, professional help, 00:29:26.730 --> 00:29:28.769 this wouldn't have been done. And again, we'll 00:29:28.769 --> 00:29:30.789 remind folks this is a Congressional Medal of 00:29:30.789 --> 00:29:33.569 Honor, although awarded by the president. There 00:29:33.569 --> 00:29:37.589 are requirements about how soon after the action 00:29:37.589 --> 00:29:40.609 that you can be awarded it through command. So 00:29:40.609 --> 00:29:43.589 40 some years later, you're going to need an 00:29:43.589 --> 00:29:45.970 act of Congress to open back up the timeframe 00:29:45.970 --> 00:29:49.930 to allow Ken to get the award based on what the 00:29:49.930 --> 00:29:52.150 Army says and what the president says, correct? 00:29:52.410 --> 00:29:56.289 Exactly. Yeah. So one of those bullets in there 00:29:56.289 --> 00:30:00.589 is you have to be able to prove that you are 00:30:00.589 --> 00:30:04.970 providing something new and material that could 00:30:04.970 --> 00:30:08.230 not have been known to the chain of command at 00:30:08.230 --> 00:30:12.589 the time. So now, and looking at the chain of 00:30:12.589 --> 00:30:16.670 command, so his platoon leader was killed instantly. 00:30:17.950 --> 00:30:24.579 His company commander was killed July 20th. So 00:30:24.579 --> 00:30:28.779 there were two big parts of his immediate chain 00:30:28.779 --> 00:30:32.700 of command that would have been aware of his 00:30:32.700 --> 00:30:39.880 DSC otherwise but for being killed. So there 00:30:39.880 --> 00:30:43.079 would be no way that those individuals would 00:30:43.079 --> 00:30:47.200 know anything that is new because they're deceased. 00:30:47.660 --> 00:30:52.640 And we were able to kind of prove that. The new 00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:59.359 defense fellow now was able to get the Congressional 00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:02.259 Medal of Honor packet for Kenneth Case from the 00:31:02.259 --> 00:31:06.339 archives. We were able to take that packet then 00:31:06.339 --> 00:31:10.940 and line it up next to Ken's to determine what 00:31:10.940 --> 00:31:14.859 we were missing. We were able to determine his 00:31:14.859 --> 00:31:17.640 entire chain of command based on that packet 00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:22.119 because it showed every signature from the eyewitnesses 00:31:22.119 --> 00:31:26.539 on forward. Um, one of the, you know, some of 00:31:26.539 --> 00:31:29.180 the other items that were on that list. So I'll 00:31:29.180 --> 00:31:32.500 go through that with you. Uh, so I'm going to, 00:31:32.500 --> 00:31:34.460 I'm going to speed you up a little bit because 00:31:34.460 --> 00:31:36.240 otherwise we're going to run out of run out of 00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:40.799 time here. And again, all this work gets done, 00:31:40.839 --> 00:31:44.210 the stuff gets, uh, pulled together gets submitted. 00:31:44.690 --> 00:31:48.130 How long between the submittal and, and if you 00:31:48.130 --> 00:31:50.829 will, the phone call, because what typically 00:31:50.829 --> 00:31:53.630 happens is the army starts going, starts making 00:31:53.630 --> 00:31:57.009 calls to, in this instance, can say, now we want 00:31:57.009 --> 00:31:59.410 to ask you about this. And at some point, those 00:31:59.410 --> 00:32:02.569 phone calls change from just informational to 00:32:02.569 --> 00:32:05.569 something's coming. What are we talking time 00:32:05.569 --> 00:32:07.289 wise? Cause as I say, you worked on this for 00:32:07.289 --> 00:32:12.369 15 years. Yeah. So The final completed packet, 00:32:12.950 --> 00:32:16.069 I want to say it was 2019 that it was submitted. 00:32:17.349 --> 00:32:20.650 And from the time that the final packet was submitted, 00:32:22.269 --> 00:32:30.450 I had a face -to -face, well, Zoom call with 00:32:30.450 --> 00:32:35.569 the adjutant general of the Army in 2020 with 00:32:35.569 --> 00:32:40.140 our congressional representative. just to try 00:32:40.140 --> 00:32:42.960 and determine what the status was. It had been 00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:46.519 with them for over a year at that point. We were 00:32:46.519 --> 00:32:52.279 able to lock down that the board, which is comprised 00:32:52.279 --> 00:32:55.680 of a couple officers at the very front gate, 00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:01.799 the board was able to give it a, and I forget 00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:04.339 their language, but it's something like they 00:33:04.339 --> 00:33:07.230 didn't say no. okay so they didn't say no they 00:33:07.230 --> 00:33:09.910 didn't say yes but they didn't say no it's a 00:33:09.910 --> 00:33:13.089 partial win right which means it moves forward 00:33:13.089 --> 00:33:16.230 so it moved to the secretary of the army's office 00:33:16.230 --> 00:33:22.869 um sometime around uh let's see 2021 it moved 00:33:22.869 --> 00:33:27.299 to the secretary of the army's office and As 00:33:27.299 --> 00:33:30.079 it was moving through the Secretary of the Army's 00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:32.839 office, I was trying to utilize all contacts 00:33:32.839 --> 00:33:34.960 that we could to try and figure out what was 00:33:34.960 --> 00:33:38.640 going on there. We didn't have a lot of communication 00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:46.240 back from 2021 until Secretary Austin notified 00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:54.809 us in August of 2023. I want to say it was August 00:33:54.809 --> 00:34:00.089 of 2023. Yes, it was Secretary Austin signed 00:34:00.089 --> 00:34:06.210 it August 8, 2023. And that told us then that 00:34:06.210 --> 00:34:09.650 it was moved to the White House. So once it moved 00:34:09.650 --> 00:34:14.570 to the White House, I tried to find contacts 00:34:14.570 --> 00:34:17.449 with them because at that point, it's cloaked 00:34:17.449 --> 00:34:21.250 in complete secrecy. the the Pentagon, I was 00:34:21.250 --> 00:34:23.070 at least kind of able to kind of track down. 00:34:23.150 --> 00:34:24.889 OK, where's the packet now? Where's the packet 00:34:24.889 --> 00:34:32.670 now? So as it dragged through, you know, through 00:34:32.670 --> 00:34:34.530 the halls of the Pentagon and then through the 00:34:34.530 --> 00:34:36.869 halls of the White House, it was extremely frustrating 00:34:36.869 --> 00:34:41.269 because, you know, you know that this that's 00:34:41.269 --> 00:34:45.289 Ken's story is is a story that's worthy of this 00:34:45.289 --> 00:34:48.829 upgrade. And you know now that it's being scrutinized 00:34:48.829 --> 00:34:53.949 by you know, top brass, top administrative officials. 00:34:54.329 --> 00:34:56.989 And once it got to the White House, and we knew 00:34:56.989 --> 00:34:59.190 it was at the White House in August of 2023, 00:34:59.570 --> 00:35:04.190 I believe that Ken received a phone call in the 00:35:04.190 --> 00:35:08.889 summer of 2024 from Army Awards branch saying, 00:35:09.170 --> 00:35:13.110 hey, we're tracking this and we want to ask you 00:35:13.110 --> 00:35:17.389 some questions just as you had alluded to. And 00:35:17.389 --> 00:35:21.210 then from that point, I believe it was Halloween 00:35:21.210 --> 00:35:24.070 that Ken got the call from the president that 00:35:24.070 --> 00:35:27.329 it was coming. Now I want to tell folks, listen 00:35:27.329 --> 00:35:29.449 to the interview with Ken David that we did here 00:35:29.449 --> 00:35:31.789 on Veterans Radio. We're talking to Herm Brewer, 00:35:31.829 --> 00:35:35.690 who is in my terms, the Medal of Honor Sherpa 00:35:35.690 --> 00:35:38.710 for Ken David. He carried, put the package with 00:35:38.710 --> 00:35:40.989 some other folks together and to carry it up 00:35:40.989 --> 00:35:46.429 Mount Everest. It is, you know, these guys are 00:35:46.429 --> 00:35:49.570 all. humble about getting the Medal of Honor. 00:35:49.769 --> 00:35:53.530 And Ken's a very humble man, worked in HVAC in 00:35:53.530 --> 00:35:58.309 Trumbull County, retired from there. And this 00:35:58.309 --> 00:36:01.050 is going to change his life, whether he realizes 00:36:01.050 --> 00:36:04.989 it in the summer of 2024 or not. And as I said, 00:36:05.010 --> 00:36:09.670 in January of 2025, before President Biden leaves 00:36:09.670 --> 00:36:14.010 office, he has Ken come in and they have the 00:36:14.010 --> 00:36:18.849 ceremony. So It takes a long time, even a long 00:36:18.849 --> 00:36:22.110 time to get through the White House. But you 00:36:22.110 --> 00:36:24.949 were in the room. Tell us a little bit about 00:36:24.949 --> 00:36:29.710 being at the White House for this Medal of Honor 00:36:29.710 --> 00:36:35.030 ceremony from 40 years ago for a friend of yours 00:36:35.030 --> 00:36:40.969 locally there in Trumbull County. Yeah. It's 00:36:40.969 --> 00:36:45.570 tough to put into words because they really you 00:36:45.570 --> 00:36:49.150 know, in my eyes, you know, they are treated 00:36:49.150 --> 00:36:55.769 as royalty and justly so. So and keep in mind 00:36:55.769 --> 00:37:00.309 that Ken's award was with eight posthumous, I 00:37:00.309 --> 00:37:03.449 think it was seven or eight posthumous awards 00:37:03.449 --> 00:37:06.849 were done at the same time and all of their families 00:37:06.849 --> 00:37:12.389 are there too. So the room is packed and you're 00:37:12.389 --> 00:37:17.099 hearing story after story, I mean, history that 00:37:17.099 --> 00:37:20.360 was not being told before is now being told. 00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:23.840 And it's so humbling to be able to be there and 00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:26.360 see this, you know, and especially, you know, 00:37:26.460 --> 00:37:31.539 with Ken, when I started in trying to help Ken, 00:37:32.019 --> 00:37:36.219 his parents were still with us. I think Ken mentioned 00:37:36.219 --> 00:37:39.400 to you before Sam Lanza, Sam was kind of a World 00:37:39.400 --> 00:37:44.699 War II veterans advocate, DAV, Mr. Veterans Service 00:37:44.699 --> 00:37:49.079 Organization. And Sam was kind of the one that 00:37:49.079 --> 00:37:51.519 was like, hey, you got to make sure he gets this. 00:37:51.699 --> 00:37:56.300 He deserves this. And, you know, and I told Sam 00:37:56.300 --> 00:37:59.369 then we were going to do whatever it took. And 00:37:59.369 --> 00:38:01.690 we were fortunate enough to be able to see that 00:38:01.690 --> 00:38:04.829 all the way through to the end. So the trip to 00:38:04.829 --> 00:38:08.510 the White House was so humbling to be able to 00:38:08.510 --> 00:38:13.690 see Ken up there getting the award just really 00:38:13.690 --> 00:38:16.260 just kind of melted your heart. Well, and it's 00:38:16.260 --> 00:38:19.599 a room at that point full of generals and depending 00:38:19.599 --> 00:38:22.480 on who else is being awarded admirals and more 00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:25.840 brass than you've ever seen before. Yep. The 00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:29.940 president's there. I mean, this is, this is, 00:38:29.940 --> 00:38:32.519 you know, this is as close as we come to that 00:38:32.519 --> 00:38:34.519 type of ceremony. The British do it a lot better, 00:38:34.619 --> 00:38:40.079 but right. This is what we do. Give us a reaction 00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:43.539 of just sort of like what it was be like in the 00:38:43.539 --> 00:38:47.219 room. Yeah, yeah, I mean, you could have heard 00:38:47.219 --> 00:38:49.280 it. I mean, you could have literally heard a 00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:52.320 pin drop, you know, because there are brass, 00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:56.500 like you said, brass everywhere, and not just 00:38:56.500 --> 00:38:59.099 the brass that are up front, the generals that 00:38:59.099 --> 00:39:02.000 are up front, you know, It essentially the halls 00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:04.440 are lined with like majors and colonels directing 00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:08.099 you where to go, you know, so and they I mean, 00:39:08.099 --> 00:39:10.679 they really pulled out every stop. The Army band 00:39:10.679 --> 00:39:13.019 was playing as soon as you walk through the halls 00:39:13.019 --> 00:39:17.280 of the White House. And, you know, we were able 00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:21.800 to then after the ceremony was over, we were 00:39:21.800 --> 00:39:24.280 able to kind of socialize with some of the brass 00:39:24.280 --> 00:39:27.940 and the other families as well, you know, because 00:39:27.940 --> 00:39:30.829 some of these other families you know there was 00:39:30.829 --> 00:39:35.710 a the daughter of a of a Korean War veteran who 00:39:35.710 --> 00:39:38.469 was there and actually their family was also 00:39:38.469 --> 00:39:42.610 from Ohio and you know unfortunately and and 00:39:42.610 --> 00:39:47.610 he was he was not killed in action and his service 00:39:47.610 --> 00:39:51.289 also you know just like Ken's just the the story 00:39:51.289 --> 00:39:55.880 that is being told and you just feel so happy 00:39:55.880 --> 00:39:58.300 for these families to be able to finally see 00:39:58.300 --> 00:40:01.179 that their loved one was recognized as well. 00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:03.840 And maybe that's where we'll try to bring this 00:40:03.840 --> 00:40:07.179 to a conclusion. Thanks for staying on longer 00:40:07.179 --> 00:40:09.840 than I asked you to. And we're talking to Herm 00:40:09.840 --> 00:40:14.039 Brewer who was a veteran county service officer 00:40:14.039 --> 00:40:16.860 for 19 years in Trumbull County. He's now in 00:40:16.860 --> 00:40:20.079 the private sector working as a consultant in 00:40:20.079 --> 00:40:24.460 this area. But he was the Sherpa for the Medal 00:40:24.460 --> 00:40:29.519 of Honor upgrade award for Ken David Talk about 00:40:29.519 --> 00:40:32.239 why this is important to the larger community. 00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:36.179 I think that's what maybe people don't recognize 00:40:36.179 --> 00:40:39.820 is as Yeah, this is great for Ken and his family, 00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:42.599 but there's a larger community aspect to this 00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:46.139 isn't there? And I think that that's what really 00:40:46.139 --> 00:40:48.320 when I look at the whole thing just like you're 00:40:48.320 --> 00:40:52.809 saying that And, you know, having served in Iraq 00:40:52.809 --> 00:40:56.289 and I know that there were people that I served 00:40:56.289 --> 00:41:00.670 with, you know, and there were people that I 00:41:00.670 --> 00:41:04.590 served with that probably deserve higher recognitions 00:41:04.590 --> 00:41:08.889 than they've received also. And that there are 00:41:08.889 --> 00:41:13.150 so many stories like this that will go untold 00:41:13.150 --> 00:41:17.949 and that's unfortunate. But for anybody that 00:41:17.949 --> 00:41:22.420 thinks that you know, so -and -so received this 00:41:22.420 --> 00:41:26.500 medal and that's an injustice that the only way 00:41:26.500 --> 00:41:31.719 for you to write that injustice is by you taking 00:41:31.719 --> 00:41:34.860 the action to go and make that happen for that 00:41:34.860 --> 00:41:37.599 individual. So it wasn't that, you know, there 00:41:37.599 --> 00:41:39.920 was somebody who was being derelict in their 00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:42.539 duty because that wasn't the case for Ken. You 00:41:42.539 --> 00:41:45.039 know, what we were able to prove was that one 00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:47.500 out of the chain of command, only one was still 00:41:47.500 --> 00:41:50.219 alive and he was 97 years old in a nursing home 00:41:50.219 --> 00:41:53.539 in Texas. Oh, boy. And that was General Benjamin 00:41:53.539 --> 00:41:58.340 Harrison. But so that was not not to be confused 00:41:58.340 --> 00:42:00.400 with Fort Benjamin Harrison. I think he was a 00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:02.440 grandson of the guy who was named for Fort Benjamin. 00:42:02.639 --> 00:42:07.650 Anyway, but that. That's, that's the whole thing 00:42:07.650 --> 00:42:09.630 that there wasn't anybody that was derelict. 00:42:09.869 --> 00:42:13.309 And there are hundreds of thousands, maybe even 00:42:13.309 --> 00:42:16.530 more stories like this out there. But if you're 00:42:16.530 --> 00:42:18.969 going to really be serious about saying so it 00:42:18.969 --> 00:42:22.949 so deserves X, Y, and Z, and you feel passionate 00:42:22.949 --> 00:42:26.980 about it, well, then you better Be prepared for 00:42:26.980 --> 00:42:29.539 an uphill battle and be prepared to roll up your 00:42:29.539 --> 00:42:31.900 sleeves because it's going to require some effort. 00:42:32.139 --> 00:42:34.280 It's not just going to be somebody's going to 00:42:34.280 --> 00:42:36.400 go, oh, you're right. He deserves that. That's 00:42:36.400 --> 00:42:38.840 not how it works at all. Yeah. And in the larger 00:42:38.840 --> 00:42:41.260 community, I mean, this is as I said, good for 00:42:41.260 --> 00:42:44.340 Ken, good for his local DAV, which supported 00:42:44.340 --> 00:42:47.400 him. Good for Crumble County that supported him. 00:42:47.599 --> 00:42:52.269 All of Ohio for the Midwest. I mean, These awards 00:42:52.269 --> 00:42:57.349 recognize our neighbors, our friends, people, 00:42:57.570 --> 00:43:00.210 tradesmen that we work with, just regular guys 00:43:00.210 --> 00:43:05.090 who will never talk about their story. But this 00:43:05.090 --> 00:43:07.530 brings the story to life, doesn't it, Herm? It 00:43:07.530 --> 00:43:09.789 really does. And you know, I can't emphasize 00:43:09.789 --> 00:43:11.909 what you just said enough because a lot of times, 00:43:12.190 --> 00:43:15.070 you know, and they'll all say, well, I was just 00:43:15.070 --> 00:43:18.570 doing my job because that's clearly the way that 00:43:18.570 --> 00:43:21.760 they see it. But when you're able to kind of 00:43:21.760 --> 00:43:25.059 see that from like a 10 ,000 foot view and go, 00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:27.619 wait a minute, that was, you know, he was on, 00:43:27.619 --> 00:43:30.360 on a part of a larger operation and you can tell 00:43:30.360 --> 00:43:33.480 that story, you know, because unfortunately, 00:43:33.659 --> 00:43:36.780 sometimes the Sherpa can probably tell the story 00:43:36.780 --> 00:43:39.139 better than the recipient can recite the story. 00:43:40.159 --> 00:43:43.519 All of knowing all of the other factors involved 00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:47.559 that, that came to put it all together. And that's 00:43:47.559 --> 00:43:49.780 what's really important is that Yeah, when you 00:43:49.780 --> 00:43:52.360 see that injustice, be prepared to be able to 00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:55.800 tell that story and tell it effectively so that 00:43:55.800 --> 00:43:59.480 way it can, that injustice can get righted. Well, 00:43:59.579 --> 00:44:02.300 we certainly appreciate the time, Herm Brewer, 00:44:02.380 --> 00:44:05.079 that you've spent with us today on Veterans Radio 00:44:05.079 --> 00:44:09.659 to tell us the story of Ken David's upgrade to 00:44:09.659 --> 00:44:12.260 the Medal of Honor. Again, these are the sort 00:44:12.260 --> 00:44:14.019 of stories you don't want to lose. You want them 00:44:14.039 --> 00:44:17.840 if you will, digitized on the internet forever. 00:44:18.400 --> 00:44:21.440 And we hope in the future people will go listen 00:44:21.440 --> 00:44:24.079 to Ken's story with the interview we did with 00:44:24.079 --> 00:44:27.340 him and certainly here with Herm Brewer. And 00:44:27.340 --> 00:44:31.119 you'll find articles about Ken if you use your 00:44:31.119 --> 00:44:35.059 basic search engines. Herm, thanks for the time 00:44:35.059 --> 00:44:37.550 that you gave us today. Absolutely, my pleasure. 00:44:37.750 --> 00:44:39.809 Thanks for having me. And I want to thank everybody 00:44:39.809 --> 00:44:42.610 for listening to Veterans Radio today. I am Jim 00:44:42.610 --> 00:44:45.489 Fossone. It's been a pleasure to be your host. 00:44:45.690 --> 00:44:48.309 I'm a Veterans disability lawyer at Legal Help 00:44:48.309 --> 00:44:52.269 for Veterans and you can reach us at 800 -693 00:44:52.269 --> 00:44:57.070 -4800 or legalhelpforveterans .com on the web. 00:44:57.369 --> 00:45:00.670 You can follow Veterans Radio on Facebook and 00:45:00.670 --> 00:45:03.690 listen to its podcasts and internet radio shows 00:45:03.690 --> 00:45:07.710 by visiting us at veteransradio .org. That's 00:45:07.710 --> 00:45:11.070 veteransradio .org. We would again want to thank 00:45:11.070 --> 00:45:14.210 our national sponsors, the National Veterans 00:45:14.210 --> 00:45:19.610 Business Development Council, nvbdc .org. 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