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We want to welcome to veterans radio today and
author Debbie malding Who has written the angels
of baton and corrugador a legacy of honor duty
and compassion Debbie welcome to veterans radio
Well, it's an interesting story that you write
about and It's about the nurses who were on baton
and corrugador who were prisoners of war in World
War II, and I suspect there are people listening,
maybe young folk who go, oh, nurses are POWs
as well, so we'll get into that as well. But
you've been writing in the military history for
a few years now, you've participated in the Beyond
Belief True Stories series that our mutual friend
Doug Sterner has a bunch of people writing on.
How did you decide, you know what, I'm gonna
write a book on The Angels of Bataan and Corregidor.
Well, you mentioned Doug Sterner. He actually
encouraged me to do it. He is currently or has
recently published a book about women and the
military, women heroes. And I had done a shorter
version of the same story for his book. And when
he got it, he said, um you should turn this into
a book so i said well maybe i don't know he said
no there's no maybe you need to do it and he
started immediately sending me instructions of
how to do it so that can be rather persuasive
and i love this story so put those two things
together and within a couple weeks the book was
on its way. Well, it's a great contribution to,
as I say, military history, which you write in,
but you've been writing really your whole life.
You are a retired, registered nurse, so I know
this series of this story and these 11 nurses
you write on, kind of, you know, that's right
in your sweet spot. It must have been a little
bit of motivation for you to say, I'm writing
about nursing history here. Right. That's why
originally when Doug posted the list of stories
that he would like to have for his book, when
I saw 11 nurses that were POWs, first of all,
I'd never heard the story. I had no idea. So
I picked that one right away and started on it
and I was just amazed. There were so many things
that I had heard in the past, but I never knew
the actual history behind it. So it was really
interesting. Well, why don't you give us a little
bit of information on the Navy Nurse Corps. I
think a lot of people would maybe make certain
assumptions that aren't true, so why don't you
tell us a little bit about how that came about
and the service in World War II. Okay, well actually
people don't realize that there was no Navy nurse
for until President Roosevelt, Theodore Roosevelt,
signed it into action and that was like 1908
and there had been of course, corpsmen or servicemen
who provided emergency treatment and care, that
kind of thing. Even as far back as the Civil
War, there were nurses around, but there was
not an organized nurse corps with a leader and
standards of practice. So it was quite a story
to find out. as even for me because I had thought
about being in the Navy nurse corps at one time
and I didn't realize it was strictly from the
1900s you know. And again before that nurses
showed up through different organizations maybe
it was the YWCA, maybe it was the American Red
Cross, maybe it was the Salvation Army, lots
of different places. would show up on the battlefield
and help out in the medical field, both doctors
and nurses. So it is kind of interesting that
it took until the 1900s before we said, yeah,
you know what? We got to have our own nurse corps
here. Right. And when they first came about,
they didn't have rank or the same pay or privileges
that other military professionals had. So they
had a long haul ahead of them to get all of,
I guess, what you would think of as the benefits
of being in the military to begin with. You report
in the book, The Angels of Baton and Corregidor,
that in 1945 you know, when the call went out
in World War II that, hey, we're going to need
nurses. There was something like 11 ,000 volunteers.
That's astounding to me. Right. When you think
about it, it takes about 10 to 20 RNs per shift
to handle 100, 120 patients, you know. They're
going to have some some nurses' aides, and maybe
in this case, corpsmen, to help with the lifting
and turning, and all those kinds of things. But
we're talking about RNs, and that was a force
to come up with 11 ,000. That truly was amazing
to me. Well, and they got spread all around the
world. We're focusing here on the Philippines.
they get spread around and they get sent to hospitals
and clinics and whatnot and apparently there
was a hospital on the Batem Peninsula? Yes it
was and actually Batem had been designated as
a rest of R &R station rest and relaxation for
the military personnel so there was a hospital
there it was you know, pretty full service, but
not, I guess you would say, open to the public,
or they didn't provide family medical care, any
of those kind of things. It was strictly for
the servicemen. Maybe they were recuperating
from an injury, that kind of thing. One of the
things, again, I think people, we don't get much
history in high school or college for that matter,
but right after Pearl Harbor, the Japanese attacked
the Philippines and pretty quickly, matter of
months, took the Philippines over entirely. Some
folks might recall that made General Douglas
MacArthur leave the Philippines with the famous
quote, I'll be back. but a whole bunch of people
were left behind as he scooted off to Australia.
And some of those folks left behind were these
11 nurses. Tell us about sort of what they were
doing and how they became prisoners of war. Okay,
they were working throughout the hospital. They
weren't like one little bunch of nurses. They
were the nurses assigned to different places
in the hospital when the attack took place and
the Japanese came in to the hospital and rounded
up people, patients, nurses, doctors, anybody
that was on duty. late in the afternoon, I guess
near a shift change. So they at first were allowing
them to tend to the patients, get the patients
ready to go. And the nurses, of course, as soon
as the attack took place, were moving the patients
to safer places. Anyway, they took them right
away after the patients were all moved and took
the nurses. They took 12, actually, prisoner
and one of them was able to escape. So she ended
up in Australia, actually, and the others were
taken to Well, the first encampment, I guess
you would call it, was at Santo Tomas. One of
the things that if you study World War II and
the Japanese, war in the Pacific you realize
that Japanese moved the folks around the Philippines
and even back to plans to move them to POW camps
back on the mainland in Japan. So did these nurses
get moved around as well? They did get moved
around basically in between Baton and Corregidor
and to different locations there. One of the
camps was in an old school. Another one was in
an old college and the college happened to have
an infirmary so they had some medical equipment
there. Each place that they got moved to they
set up a hospital and they continued to work
the entire time. And that's sort of one of the
amazing things here is that while they were prisoners
of war, they were still meeting their duty, their
obligation as nurses to take care of the sick
and the injured. I mean, it really is sort of
a noble commitment that each of these women made.
That's true. And, you know, as a retired nurse,
I can tell you that it is the expectation. Nurses
expect that of themselves and of their peers.
That whatever situation you're in, you take charge
of the people that are in need of care. And that's
just the calling of being a nurse. It's part
of it. There was one of the ladies, one of the
nurses who was very creative and was able to
make equipment from items that they found and
able to make bandages from old curtains and all
kinds of different things that they were able
to use. and providing care. They even took care
of some of the Japanese soldiers that were injured.
How long were they in captivity? 37 months, a
little over three years. It's really, you know,
hard to believe and think about that and we again
know from other stories about Japanese POWs the
conditions in these camps, whether it be how
much they had to work, their food, their nutrition,
the diseases, the tropical diseases, it all got
worse over time, didn't it? That is correct.
It did. And each one of them suffered long -term
health issues after they were released. One of
them lost from around 160 pounds to down to 89
pounds when she was released. That was strictly
because of the lack of nutritious food and all
of the work that they were doing. Yeah, starvation
and disease run through these stories and honestly,
one of the notes I made after reading the book,
The Angels of Baton and Crigador, was that it
seemed like all of these women died early because
of effects from them being POWs. Am I over -reading
that or was that kind of what happened to a lot
of these women? While they survived being POWs,
they had long -term impacts. That is true. The
ones that did live a longer life lived with health
issues. they just weren't able to still survive.
Several of them died very young. One of them
tragically was killed by a drunk driver before
she ever made 60 years old. So it's really an
interesting story because you expect a lot of
huge celebration. Well, there was a celebration
when they returned, but not nearly what you would
think. A bunch of women were taking POW, but
people didn't get all that excited about it.
So you have to wonder. if the news just didn't
travel very fast. Well, it just, there were so
many stories at the time, I'm sure, just get
overwhelmed also. But one of the things that
struck me as you told these stories is notwithstanding
starvation and disease and their ill health,
the medical care that they gave was kind of way
beyond what they would do as normal nurses, right?
They were doing surgeries, they were delivering
babies, they were, whatever occurred, they had
to solve the problem, the medical problem, I
suppose. Pretty much. It was amazing to me throughout
the book with each of the nurses. I was able
to find out where they trained and what their
specialty was. One was an anesthetist, so a nurse
anesthetist. So she was able to help keep the
patients when they had medication, medicated
during a surgical procedure. Two of them had
trained at highly regarded surgical centers during
that time period that they would have been in
nursing training. So one of them was an obstetrical
nurse and went on to be a midwife later. So it
was quite a group of women. I mean, they had
everything they needed to be full service, I
guess you would say. Yes, at Santo Chamas they
met a doctor and he was also a prisoner of war
and he encouraged them to take volunteers of
other prisoners and train them and from then
on they had a small staff of not just the nurses
but also some assistants and the doctor. and
the doctor was able to do more of the complex
surgeries and the nurses were able to do the
things like you said, more complex than you would
see nurses doing back in that era. Oh, certainly.
This forced them beyond their normal bounds,
certainly. Well, I'm going to ask you about a
couple of these in particular, but one that I
wrote this quote down and said I want to get
it out. I think it was Ellen Page who said, not
all women wear pearls and sensible shoes. Some
wear dog tags and combat boots. And I really
thought that helped sum it up, didn't it? Yes,
it did. And she was quite the character. was
able to find an interview they did with her.
And she talked about a lot of different things,
but that was my favorite quote from her. Well,
let me ask you about a couple of them here. Tell
me about Laura May Cobb. Oh, she was the leader.
I guess you would call her the chief nurse or
charge nurse. She was the leader of the group.
She had trained at Wesley Hospital back in 1915.
She was around in the... Nurse Corps almost from
day one, you know, it started in 1908 and by
1918 she was serving in the Navy Nurse Corps.
So she was there with some of the actual founders
of that program and when she heard that there
was rumors of war, she volunteered. She said,
well, of course I'm going to go if somebody has
to. She just had the entire nurse mentality you
know. The ethos of we go where the medical treatments
require just you know one of those stories that
again kind of it's easy to get lost with all
the other stories coming out of World War II.
two POWs in the Philippines. But another woman,
another nurse who was with this group of 11 that
were prisoners of war with the Japanese was Mary
Frances Chapman. Tell us a little bit about her.
She was born in Chicago around 1913. Her dad
was a lieutenant in the Spanish American War.
Her mother was a nurse and she grew up wanting
to be like her mom. Her parents had divorced
when she was young or separated. I don't know
if they were actually divorced, but she grew
up with her grandfather and mom in a small town.
She decided she was going to be a nurse no matter
what. So she traveled to several different nursing
programs. By the time she joined the Navy, she
was highly trained surgical nurse and very motivated
wanted to be in the military because she wanted
to serve but she also wanted to be a baby nurse
she wanted to take care of babies so she was
kind of torn between which until the war came
along and then she's like okay I know where I'm
going Well this group I think I wrote down they
delivered 14 babies while they were in captivity
with the Japanese for 37 months so maybe she
got her baby fixed there who knows. She did get
to assist with at least one delivery I read about
that one so the small town that she grew up in
The paper ran articles frequently about the missing
nurses and they were really behind, you know,
find Mary Frances. So it's really a great story
about her. We're talking to Debbie Moulding who
wrote The Angels of Bataan and Corregidor, A
Legacy of Honor, Duty and Compassion. You can
find this book on Amazon. Debbie, I think this
is of interest to nurses, World War II history
buffs, folks who want to know what life really
was like in the POW, with the Japanese, but when
you were writing this, who did you think you
were writing it for? Well, I thought I was writing
it for nurses. Having been there myself as far
as working in hospitals and dialysis centers
and all the different types of nursing that I
did I Could just each one of these ladies I could
picture her what she was going through Everything
except being a prisoner and you know we used
to complain about, oh, this work is so hard sometimes
or, you know, They treat us like we're prisoners.
They treat us like we're slaves or some kind
of stuff like that. You know, you get aggravated
with your job and say things sometimes. So, you
know, I would think about stuff like that as
I was writing it and saying, oh my gosh. Yeah,
that's the old, we thought we had it tough. Read
these stories. You'll really hear what's tough
about nursing in the military. Right. Well, Debbie
Moulding, we really appreciate you taking some
time with Veterans Radio today to talk about
this book, and we hope nurses will pick it up.
Heck, everybody in a nursing school ought to
read this so that they can understand what it
was like before. And what you've got going now
is not so bad, is it? That's right. That is so
true. Thank you so much for having me. I've enjoyed
getting to talk about it. It's really great.
Well, we're glad to do it and it's a great read
so thanks for your contribution to this area
of medical and military history. Thank you so
much. And I want to thank everybody for listening
to Veterans Radio today. I am Jim Fossone. It's
been a pleasure to be your host. I'm a veterans
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