WEBVTT 00:00:05.200 --> 00:00:09.019 All across America and around the world, this 00:00:09.019 --> 00:00:15.119 is Veterans Radio. This is Veterans Radio. Good 00:00:15.119 --> 00:00:18.579 day. I'm Jim Fossone. I'm the Officer of the 00:00:18.579 --> 00:00:20.679 Deck today here on Veterans Radio and thanks 00:00:20.679 --> 00:00:23.440 for joining us. We've got some interesting stories 00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:25.640 for you. We always want to remind you, you can 00:00:25.640 --> 00:00:28.719 find more about Veterans Radio at its Facebook 00:00:28.719 --> 00:00:32.399 site or at the web, veteransradio .org, where 00:00:32.399 --> 00:00:35.219 we're on the web 24 -7. You can find a lot of 00:00:35.219 --> 00:00:38.280 our podcasts there as well. We post new ones 00:00:38.280 --> 00:00:42.460 every Tuesday, so you can get a new story, a 00:00:42.460 --> 00:00:45.179 new interview, something you didn't know before 00:00:45.179 --> 00:00:49.189 by going to veteransradio .org. 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So wherever 00:02:16.150 --> 00:02:19.650 you are, you can find us, whether it's on your 00:02:19.650 --> 00:02:22.110 mobile phone or your computer or your laptop 00:02:22.110 --> 00:02:26.349 or tablet, but listen in to Veterans Radio podcast. 00:02:26.430 --> 00:02:28.849 We post something new every week and you're going 00:02:28.849 --> 00:02:33.310 to find it informative. We want to give you a 00:02:33.310 --> 00:02:35.590 little advance notice. We're going to have a 00:02:35.590 --> 00:02:40.009 Veterans Radio event on Sunday, September 28th, 00:02:40.050 --> 00:02:45.219 2025. Radio on the River. We're doing a new location 00:02:45.219 --> 00:02:48.379 on Freedom River in Livingston County, Michigan. 00:02:49.139 --> 00:02:50.819 We want you to save the date. We're going to 00:02:50.819 --> 00:02:53.000 have veteran storytelling and guest speakers. 00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:56.599 We'll have raffle items, great local musicians 00:02:56.599 --> 00:03:00.159 and food. Also, uniquely, there's going to be 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:03.439 an opportunity to fly in a UH -1 Huey from the 00:03:03.439 --> 00:03:06.599 Michigan Flight Museum. And maybe you can also 00:03:06.599 --> 00:03:10.419 win a free ride that way. Plan on supporting 00:03:10.419 --> 00:03:14.460 Veterans Radio either by buying tickets or sponsoring 00:03:14.460 --> 00:03:20.500 Radio on the River. Contact us at Dale at VeteransRadio 00:03:20.500 --> 00:03:23.939 .org or Jim at VeteransRadio .org to get more 00:03:23.939 --> 00:03:26.300 information, but we'd love to have you come out 00:03:26.300 --> 00:03:28.659 and we'd certainly love to have you sponsor. 00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:35.000 We want to welcome to veterans radio today and 00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:39.259 author Debbie malding Who has written the angels 00:03:39.259 --> 00:03:42.740 of baton and corrugador a legacy of honor duty 00:03:42.740 --> 00:03:46.840 and compassion Debbie welcome to veterans radio 00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:53.340 Well, it's an interesting story that you write 00:03:53.340 --> 00:03:57.580 about and It's about the nurses who were on baton 00:03:57.580 --> 00:04:01.969 and corrugador who were prisoners of war in World 00:04:01.969 --> 00:04:04.409 War II, and I suspect there are people listening, 00:04:04.830 --> 00:04:08.009 maybe young folk who go, oh, nurses are POWs 00:04:08.009 --> 00:04:10.650 as well, so we'll get into that as well. But 00:04:10.650 --> 00:04:13.629 you've been writing in the military history for 00:04:13.629 --> 00:04:17.069 a few years now, you've participated in the Beyond 00:04:17.069 --> 00:04:21.949 Belief True Stories series that our mutual friend 00:04:21.949 --> 00:04:25.029 Doug Sterner has a bunch of people writing on. 00:04:25.569 --> 00:04:28.509 How did you decide, you know what, I'm gonna 00:04:28.509 --> 00:04:32.829 write a book on The Angels of Bataan and Corregidor. 00:04:34.550 --> 00:04:37.730 Well, you mentioned Doug Sterner. He actually 00:04:37.730 --> 00:04:43.329 encouraged me to do it. He is currently or has 00:04:43.329 --> 00:04:47.069 recently published a book about women and the 00:04:47.069 --> 00:04:51.110 military, women heroes. And I had done a shorter 00:04:51.110 --> 00:04:55.790 version of the same story for his book. And when 00:04:55.790 --> 00:04:59.189 he got it, he said, um you should turn this into 00:04:59.189 --> 00:05:04.310 a book so i said well maybe i don't know he said 00:05:04.310 --> 00:05:07.730 no there's no maybe you need to do it and he 00:05:07.730 --> 00:05:10.790 started immediately sending me instructions of 00:05:10.790 --> 00:05:15.170 how to do it so that can be rather persuasive 00:05:15.170 --> 00:05:19.470 and i love this story so put those two things 00:05:19.470 --> 00:05:23.329 together and within a couple weeks the book was 00:05:23.709 --> 00:05:28.829 on its way. Well, it's a great contribution to, 00:05:28.829 --> 00:05:31.970 as I say, military history, which you write in, 00:05:32.009 --> 00:05:34.430 but you've been writing really your whole life. 00:05:34.490 --> 00:05:37.310 You are a retired, registered nurse, so I know 00:05:37.310 --> 00:05:43.730 this series of this story and these 11 nurses 00:05:43.730 --> 00:05:45.970 you write on, kind of, you know, that's right 00:05:45.970 --> 00:05:48.939 in your sweet spot. It must have been a little 00:05:48.939 --> 00:05:51.519 bit of motivation for you to say, I'm writing 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:55.560 about nursing history here. Right. That's why 00:05:55.560 --> 00:06:00.579 originally when Doug posted the list of stories 00:06:00.579 --> 00:06:02.959 that he would like to have for his book, when 00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:06.839 I saw 11 nurses that were POWs, first of all, 00:06:07.439 --> 00:06:13.449 I'd never heard the story. I had no idea. So 00:06:13.449 --> 00:06:16.670 I picked that one right away and started on it 00:06:16.670 --> 00:06:20.790 and I was just amazed. There were so many things 00:06:20.790 --> 00:06:24.810 that I had heard in the past, but I never knew 00:06:24.810 --> 00:06:29.310 the actual history behind it. So it was really 00:06:29.310 --> 00:06:32.110 interesting. Well, why don't you give us a little 00:06:32.110 --> 00:06:36.810 bit of information on the Navy Nurse Corps. I 00:06:36.810 --> 00:06:40.339 think a lot of people would maybe make certain 00:06:40.339 --> 00:06:42.899 assumptions that aren't true, so why don't you 00:06:42.899 --> 00:06:46.100 tell us a little bit about how that came about 00:06:46.100 --> 00:06:53.199 and the service in World War II. Okay, well actually 00:06:53.199 --> 00:06:56.459 people don't realize that there was no Navy nurse 00:06:56.459 --> 00:07:00.319 for until President Roosevelt, Theodore Roosevelt, 00:07:00.920 --> 00:07:05.000 signed it into action and that was like 1908 00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:11.439 and there had been of course, corpsmen or servicemen 00:07:11.439 --> 00:07:15.839 who provided emergency treatment and care, that 00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:19.379 kind of thing. Even as far back as the Civil 00:07:19.379 --> 00:07:22.740 War, there were nurses around, but there was 00:07:22.740 --> 00:07:28.180 not an organized nurse corps with a leader and 00:07:28.180 --> 00:07:33.279 standards of practice. So it was quite a story 00:07:33.279 --> 00:07:36.759 to find out. as even for me because I had thought 00:07:36.759 --> 00:07:40.500 about being in the Navy nurse corps at one time 00:07:40.500 --> 00:07:43.740 and I didn't realize it was strictly from the 00:07:43.740 --> 00:07:49.399 1900s you know. And again before that nurses 00:07:49.399 --> 00:07:52.220 showed up through different organizations maybe 00:07:52.220 --> 00:07:55.839 it was the YWCA, maybe it was the American Red 00:07:55.839 --> 00:07:59.860 Cross, maybe it was the Salvation Army, lots 00:07:59.860 --> 00:08:03.319 of different places. would show up on the battlefield 00:08:03.319 --> 00:08:06.740 and help out in the medical field, both doctors 00:08:06.740 --> 00:08:10.060 and nurses. So it is kind of interesting that 00:08:10.060 --> 00:08:13.220 it took until the 1900s before we said, yeah, 00:08:13.259 --> 00:08:15.959 you know what? We got to have our own nurse corps 00:08:15.959 --> 00:08:19.500 here. Right. And when they first came about, 00:08:19.699 --> 00:08:26.439 they didn't have rank or the same pay or privileges 00:08:26.439 --> 00:08:31.800 that other military professionals had. So they 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:35.700 had a long haul ahead of them to get all of, 00:08:35.700 --> 00:08:39.059 I guess, what you would think of as the benefits 00:08:39.059 --> 00:08:44.080 of being in the military to begin with. You report 00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:47.440 in the book, The Angels of Baton and Corregidor, 00:08:47.700 --> 00:08:51.960 that in 1945 you know, when the call went out 00:08:51.960 --> 00:08:54.200 in World War II that, hey, we're going to need 00:08:54.200 --> 00:08:57.679 nurses. There was something like 11 ,000 volunteers. 00:08:58.220 --> 00:09:02.759 That's astounding to me. Right. When you think 00:09:02.759 --> 00:09:11.580 about it, it takes about 10 to 20 RNs per shift 00:09:11.580 --> 00:09:18.580 to handle 100, 120 patients, you know. They're 00:09:18.580 --> 00:09:22.960 going to have some some nurses' aides, and maybe 00:09:22.960 --> 00:09:26.980 in this case, corpsmen, to help with the lifting 00:09:26.980 --> 00:09:30.440 and turning, and all those kinds of things. But 00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:34.679 we're talking about RNs, and that was a force 00:09:34.679 --> 00:09:39.259 to come up with 11 ,000. That truly was amazing 00:09:39.259 --> 00:09:41.860 to me. Well, and they got spread all around the 00:09:41.860 --> 00:09:45.480 world. We're focusing here on the Philippines. 00:09:47.210 --> 00:09:50.129 they get spread around and they get sent to hospitals 00:09:50.129 --> 00:09:51.909 and clinics and whatnot and apparently there 00:09:51.909 --> 00:09:55.929 was a hospital on the Batem Peninsula? Yes it 00:09:55.929 --> 00:10:02.690 was and actually Batem had been designated as 00:10:02.690 --> 00:10:08.649 a rest of R &R station rest and relaxation for 00:10:08.649 --> 00:10:12.769 the military personnel so there was a hospital 00:10:12.769 --> 00:10:18.059 there it was you know, pretty full service, but 00:10:18.059 --> 00:10:22.740 not, I guess you would say, open to the public, 00:10:22.899 --> 00:10:27.220 or they didn't provide family medical care, any 00:10:27.220 --> 00:10:30.720 of those kind of things. It was strictly for 00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:34.179 the servicemen. Maybe they were recuperating 00:10:34.179 --> 00:10:39.230 from an injury, that kind of thing. One of the 00:10:39.230 --> 00:10:41.090 things, again, I think people, we don't get much 00:10:41.090 --> 00:10:44.110 history in high school or college for that matter, 00:10:44.730 --> 00:10:48.090 but right after Pearl Harbor, the Japanese attacked 00:10:48.090 --> 00:10:52.029 the Philippines and pretty quickly, matter of 00:10:52.029 --> 00:10:56.750 months, took the Philippines over entirely. Some 00:10:56.750 --> 00:10:59.950 folks might recall that made General Douglas 00:10:59.950 --> 00:11:02.149 MacArthur leave the Philippines with the famous 00:11:02.149 --> 00:11:05.639 quote, I'll be back. but a whole bunch of people 00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:09.480 were left behind as he scooted off to Australia. 00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:13.259 And some of those folks left behind were these 00:11:13.259 --> 00:11:19.100 11 nurses. Tell us about sort of what they were 00:11:19.100 --> 00:11:24.279 doing and how they became prisoners of war. Okay, 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:29.399 they were working throughout the hospital. They 00:11:29.399 --> 00:11:32.720 weren't like one little bunch of nurses. They 00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:35.620 were the nurses assigned to different places 00:11:35.620 --> 00:11:42.519 in the hospital when the attack took place and 00:11:42.519 --> 00:11:49.279 the Japanese came in to the hospital and rounded 00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:53.620 up people, patients, nurses, doctors, anybody 00:11:53.620 --> 00:12:02.009 that was on duty. late in the afternoon, I guess 00:12:02.009 --> 00:12:09.129 near a shift change. So they at first were allowing 00:12:09.129 --> 00:12:12.070 them to tend to the patients, get the patients 00:12:12.070 --> 00:12:17.690 ready to go. And the nurses, of course, as soon 00:12:17.690 --> 00:12:21.470 as the attack took place, were moving the patients 00:12:21.470 --> 00:12:27.899 to safer places. Anyway, they took them right 00:12:27.899 --> 00:12:31.740 away after the patients were all moved and took 00:12:31.740 --> 00:12:37.399 the nurses. They took 12, actually, prisoner 00:12:37.399 --> 00:12:44.600 and one of them was able to escape. So she ended 00:12:44.600 --> 00:12:50.480 up in Australia, actually, and the others were 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:58.960 taken to Well, the first encampment, I guess 00:12:58.960 --> 00:13:04.399 you would call it, was at Santo Tomas. One of 00:13:04.399 --> 00:13:07.500 the things that if you study World War II and 00:13:07.500 --> 00:13:12.960 the Japanese, war in the Pacific you realize 00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:17.019 that Japanese moved the folks around the Philippines 00:13:17.019 --> 00:13:21.019 and even back to plans to move them to POW camps 00:13:21.019 --> 00:13:26.519 back on the mainland in Japan. So did these nurses 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:30.799 get moved around as well? They did get moved 00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:36.340 around basically in between Baton and Corregidor 00:13:36.340 --> 00:13:43.289 and to different locations there. One of the 00:13:43.289 --> 00:13:47.350 camps was in an old school. Another one was in 00:13:47.350 --> 00:13:53.049 an old college and the college happened to have 00:13:53.049 --> 00:13:56.289 an infirmary so they had some medical equipment 00:13:56.289 --> 00:13:59.730 there. Each place that they got moved to they 00:13:59.730 --> 00:14:03.950 set up a hospital and they continued to work 00:14:03.950 --> 00:14:07.059 the entire time. And that's sort of one of the 00:14:07.059 --> 00:14:10.000 amazing things here is that while they were prisoners 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:14.399 of war, they were still meeting their duty, their 00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:19.840 obligation as nurses to take care of the sick 00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:23.960 and the injured. I mean, it really is sort of 00:14:23.960 --> 00:14:29.120 a noble commitment that each of these women made. 00:14:29.980 --> 00:14:34.320 That's true. And, you know, as a retired nurse, 00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:40.360 I can tell you that it is the expectation. Nurses 00:14:40.360 --> 00:14:43.100 expect that of themselves and of their peers. 00:14:43.960 --> 00:14:49.259 That whatever situation you're in, you take charge 00:14:49.259 --> 00:14:53.620 of the people that are in need of care. And that's 00:14:53.620 --> 00:14:57.240 just the calling of being a nurse. It's part 00:14:57.240 --> 00:15:01.720 of it. There was one of the ladies, one of the 00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:09.100 nurses who was very creative and was able to 00:15:09.100 --> 00:15:14.279 make equipment from items that they found and 00:15:14.279 --> 00:15:17.940 able to make bandages from old curtains and all 00:15:17.940 --> 00:15:20.200 kinds of different things that they were able 00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:23.990 to use. and providing care. They even took care 00:15:23.990 --> 00:15:27.750 of some of the Japanese soldiers that were injured. 00:15:28.929 --> 00:15:33.549 How long were they in captivity? 37 months, a 00:15:33.549 --> 00:15:36.490 little over three years. It's really, you know, 00:15:36.649 --> 00:15:39.009 hard to believe and think about that and we again 00:15:39.009 --> 00:15:43.870 know from other stories about Japanese POWs the 00:15:43.870 --> 00:15:48.669 conditions in these camps, whether it be how 00:15:48.669 --> 00:15:51.690 much they had to work, their food, their nutrition, 00:15:51.889 --> 00:15:55.669 the diseases, the tropical diseases, it all got 00:15:55.669 --> 00:15:58.950 worse over time, didn't it? That is correct. 00:15:59.590 --> 00:16:04.149 It did. And each one of them suffered long -term 00:16:04.149 --> 00:16:09.210 health issues after they were released. One of 00:16:09.210 --> 00:16:18.100 them lost from around 160 pounds to down to 89 00:16:18.100 --> 00:16:23.259 pounds when she was released. That was strictly 00:16:23.259 --> 00:16:29.080 because of the lack of nutritious food and all 00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:34.580 of the work that they were doing. Yeah, starvation 00:16:34.580 --> 00:16:38.100 and disease run through these stories and honestly, 00:16:38.299 --> 00:16:41.379 one of the notes I made after reading the book, 00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:44.889 The Angels of Baton and Crigador, was that it 00:16:44.889 --> 00:16:49.649 seemed like all of these women died early because 00:16:49.649 --> 00:16:54.870 of effects from them being POWs. Am I over -reading 00:16:54.870 --> 00:16:57.970 that or was that kind of what happened to a lot 00:16:57.970 --> 00:17:00.909 of these women? While they survived being POWs, 00:17:01.169 --> 00:17:05.970 they had long -term impacts. That is true. The 00:17:05.970 --> 00:17:12.230 ones that did live a longer life lived with health 00:17:12.230 --> 00:17:18.680 issues. they just weren't able to still survive. 00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:24.740 Several of them died very young. One of them 00:17:24.740 --> 00:17:28.640 tragically was killed by a drunk driver before 00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:33.380 she ever made 60 years old. So it's really an 00:17:33.380 --> 00:17:38.430 interesting story because you expect a lot of 00:17:38.430 --> 00:17:41.769 huge celebration. Well, there was a celebration 00:17:41.769 --> 00:17:47.250 when they returned, but not nearly what you would 00:17:47.250 --> 00:17:51.609 think. A bunch of women were taking POW, but 00:17:51.609 --> 00:17:53.910 people didn't get all that excited about it. 00:17:53.930 --> 00:17:58.819 So you have to wonder. if the news just didn't 00:17:58.819 --> 00:18:01.680 travel very fast. Well, it just, there were so 00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:04.319 many stories at the time, I'm sure, just get 00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:07.259 overwhelmed also. But one of the things that 00:18:07.259 --> 00:18:11.599 struck me as you told these stories is notwithstanding 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:15.420 starvation and disease and their ill health, 00:18:16.819 --> 00:18:20.859 the medical care that they gave was kind of way 00:18:20.859 --> 00:18:23.500 beyond what they would do as normal nurses, right? 00:18:23.819 --> 00:18:26.539 They were doing surgeries, they were delivering 00:18:26.539 --> 00:18:30.079 babies, they were, whatever occurred, they had 00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:33.319 to solve the problem, the medical problem, I 00:18:33.319 --> 00:18:38.980 suppose. Pretty much. It was amazing to me throughout 00:18:38.980 --> 00:18:43.990 the book with each of the nurses. I was able 00:18:43.990 --> 00:18:47.970 to find out where they trained and what their 00:18:47.970 --> 00:18:55.869 specialty was. One was an anesthetist, so a nurse 00:18:55.869 --> 00:19:00.930 anesthetist. So she was able to help keep the 00:19:00.930 --> 00:19:06.630 patients when they had medication, medicated 00:19:06.630 --> 00:19:10.529 during a surgical procedure. Two of them had 00:19:10.529 --> 00:19:16.619 trained at highly regarded surgical centers during 00:19:16.619 --> 00:19:20.400 that time period that they would have been in 00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:25.079 nursing training. So one of them was an obstetrical 00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:29.900 nurse and went on to be a midwife later. So it 00:19:29.900 --> 00:19:33.720 was quite a group of women. I mean, they had 00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:38.819 everything they needed to be full service, I 00:19:38.819 --> 00:19:44.200 guess you would say. Yes, at Santo Chamas they 00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:49.559 met a doctor and he was also a prisoner of war 00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:55.420 and he encouraged them to take volunteers of 00:19:55.420 --> 00:19:59.859 other prisoners and train them and from then 00:19:59.859 --> 00:20:04.799 on they had a small staff of not just the nurses 00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:09.390 but also some assistants and the doctor. and 00:20:09.390 --> 00:20:16.130 the doctor was able to do more of the complex 00:20:16.130 --> 00:20:20.950 surgeries and the nurses were able to do the 00:20:20.950 --> 00:20:24.869 things like you said, more complex than you would 00:20:24.869 --> 00:20:30.049 see nurses doing back in that era. Oh, certainly. 00:20:30.049 --> 00:20:33.250 This forced them beyond their normal bounds, 00:20:33.250 --> 00:20:35.029 certainly. Well, I'm going to ask you about a 00:20:35.029 --> 00:20:38.890 couple of these in particular, but one that I 00:20:38.890 --> 00:20:40.529 wrote this quote down and said I want to get 00:20:40.529 --> 00:20:43.710 it out. I think it was Ellen Page who said, not 00:20:43.710 --> 00:20:47.170 all women wear pearls and sensible shoes. Some 00:20:47.170 --> 00:20:50.390 wear dog tags and combat boots. And I really 00:20:50.390 --> 00:20:53.349 thought that helped sum it up, didn't it? Yes, 00:20:53.349 --> 00:20:58.799 it did. And she was quite the character. was 00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:01.920 able to find an interview they did with her. 00:21:03.099 --> 00:21:08.240 And she talked about a lot of different things, 00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:12.119 but that was my favorite quote from her. Well, 00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:15.440 let me ask you about a couple of them here. Tell 00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:22.200 me about Laura May Cobb. Oh, she was the leader. 00:21:22.660 --> 00:21:25.539 I guess you would call her the chief nurse or 00:21:25.539 --> 00:21:29.990 charge nurse. She was the leader of the group. 00:21:30.109 --> 00:21:34.390 She had trained at Wesley Hospital back in 1915. 00:21:35.269 --> 00:21:42.769 She was around in the... Nurse Corps almost from 00:21:42.769 --> 00:21:47.509 day one, you know, it started in 1908 and by 00:21:47.509 --> 00:21:52.349 1918 she was serving in the Navy Nurse Corps. 00:21:53.009 --> 00:21:56.329 So she was there with some of the actual founders 00:21:56.329 --> 00:22:02.130 of that program and when she heard that there 00:22:02.130 --> 00:22:06.490 was rumors of war, she volunteered. She said, 00:22:06.750 --> 00:22:08.829 well, of course I'm going to go if somebody has 00:22:08.829 --> 00:22:22.130 to. She just had the entire nurse mentality you 00:22:22.130 --> 00:22:28.390 know. The ethos of we go where the medical treatments 00:22:28.390 --> 00:22:31.529 require just you know one of those stories that 00:22:31.529 --> 00:22:34.990 again kind of it's easy to get lost with all 00:22:34.990 --> 00:22:37.430 the other stories coming out of World War II. 00:22:37.450 --> 00:22:41.369 two POWs in the Philippines. But another woman, 00:22:41.809 --> 00:22:44.970 another nurse who was with this group of 11 that 00:22:44.970 --> 00:22:48.849 were prisoners of war with the Japanese was Mary 00:22:48.849 --> 00:22:51.410 Frances Chapman. Tell us a little bit about her. 00:22:52.210 --> 00:22:57.890 She was born in Chicago around 1913. Her dad 00:22:57.890 --> 00:23:02.089 was a lieutenant in the Spanish American War. 00:23:02.609 --> 00:23:06.859 Her mother was a nurse and she grew up wanting 00:23:06.859 --> 00:23:10.259 to be like her mom. Her parents had divorced 00:23:10.259 --> 00:23:12.680 when she was young or separated. I don't know 00:23:12.680 --> 00:23:15.640 if they were actually divorced, but she grew 00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:21.500 up with her grandfather and mom in a small town. 00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:26.579 She decided she was going to be a nurse no matter 00:23:26.579 --> 00:23:30.519 what. So she traveled to several different nursing 00:23:30.519 --> 00:23:33.960 programs. By the time she joined the Navy, she 00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:41.579 was highly trained surgical nurse and very motivated 00:23:41.579 --> 00:23:47.880 wanted to be in the military because she wanted 00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:51.640 to serve but she also wanted to be a baby nurse 00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:55.880 she wanted to take care of babies so she was 00:23:55.880 --> 00:23:59.400 kind of torn between which until the war came 00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:01.980 along and then she's like okay I know where I'm 00:24:01.980 --> 00:24:05.910 going Well this group I think I wrote down they 00:24:05.910 --> 00:24:09.509 delivered 14 babies while they were in captivity 00:24:09.509 --> 00:24:13.470 with the Japanese for 37 months so maybe she 00:24:13.470 --> 00:24:17.210 got her baby fixed there who knows. She did get 00:24:17.210 --> 00:24:21.430 to assist with at least one delivery I read about 00:24:21.430 --> 00:24:26.690 that one so the small town that she grew up in 00:24:26.839 --> 00:24:31.700 The paper ran articles frequently about the missing 00:24:31.700 --> 00:24:38.319 nurses and they were really behind, you know, 00:24:38.579 --> 00:24:43.059 find Mary Frances. So it's really a great story 00:24:43.059 --> 00:24:46.140 about her. We're talking to Debbie Moulding who 00:24:46.140 --> 00:24:49.099 wrote The Angels of Bataan and Corregidor, A 00:24:49.099 --> 00:24:52.240 Legacy of Honor, Duty and Compassion. You can 00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:57.579 find this book on Amazon. Debbie, I think this 00:24:57.579 --> 00:25:03.200 is of interest to nurses, World War II history 00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:05.940 buffs, folks who want to know what life really 00:25:05.940 --> 00:25:11.720 was like in the POW, with the Japanese, but when 00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:13.960 you were writing this, who did you think you 00:25:13.960 --> 00:25:19.920 were writing it for? Well, I thought I was writing 00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:28.279 it for nurses. Having been there myself as far 00:25:28.279 --> 00:25:32.180 as working in hospitals and dialysis centers 00:25:32.180 --> 00:25:35.200 and all the different types of nursing that I 00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:40.460 did I Could just each one of these ladies I could 00:25:40.460 --> 00:25:46.279 picture her what she was going through Everything 00:25:46.279 --> 00:25:51.960 except being a prisoner and you know we used 00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:57.039 to complain about, oh, this work is so hard sometimes 00:25:57.039 --> 00:26:01.599 or, you know, They treat us like we're prisoners. 00:26:01.779 --> 00:26:04.680 They treat us like we're slaves or some kind 00:26:04.680 --> 00:26:07.299 of stuff like that. You know, you get aggravated 00:26:07.299 --> 00:26:10.460 with your job and say things sometimes. So, you 00:26:10.460 --> 00:26:13.559 know, I would think about stuff like that as 00:26:13.559 --> 00:26:17.259 I was writing it and saying, oh my gosh. Yeah, 00:26:17.720 --> 00:26:21.819 that's the old, we thought we had it tough. Read 00:26:21.819 --> 00:26:23.960 these stories. You'll really hear what's tough 00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:28.519 about nursing in the military. Right. Well, Debbie 00:26:28.519 --> 00:26:30.819 Moulding, we really appreciate you taking some 00:26:30.819 --> 00:26:34.039 time with Veterans Radio today to talk about 00:26:34.039 --> 00:26:37.299 this book, and we hope nurses will pick it up. 00:26:37.539 --> 00:26:40.079 Heck, everybody in a nursing school ought to 00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:42.920 read this so that they can understand what it 00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:45.660 was like before. And what you've got going now 00:26:45.660 --> 00:26:50.779 is not so bad, is it? That's right. That is so 00:26:50.779 --> 00:26:54.500 true. Thank you so much for having me. I've enjoyed 00:26:54.500 --> 00:26:57.480 getting to talk about it. It's really great. 00:26:58.620 --> 00:27:01.619 Well, we're glad to do it and it's a great read 00:27:01.619 --> 00:27:04.339 so thanks for your contribution to this area 00:27:04.339 --> 00:27:07.900 of medical and military history. Thank you so 00:27:07.900 --> 00:27:11.119 much. And I want to thank everybody for listening 00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:14.900 to Veterans Radio today. I am Jim Fossone. It's 00:27:14.900 --> 00:27:16.980 been a pleasure to be your host. I'm a veterans 00:27:16.980 --> 00:27:19.700 disability lawyer at Legal Help for Veterans 00:27:19.700 --> 00:27:26.839 and you can reach us at 800 -693 -4800. or legalhelpforveterans 00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:30.019 .com on the web. You can follow Veterans Radio 00:27:30.019 --> 00:27:33.339 on Facebook and listen to its podcasts and internet 00:27:33.339 --> 00:27:37.920 radio shows by visiting us at veteransradio .org. 00:27:38.180 --> 00:27:41.880 That's veteransradio .org. 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