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We post something new every week and 00:02:28.569 --> 00:02:32.789 you're going to find it informative. We want 00:02:32.789 --> 00:02:36.629 to welcome to Veterans Radio today, Susan C. 00:02:36.789 --> 00:02:39.969 Gelvin, United States Air Force. retired as a 00:02:39.969 --> 00:02:44.050 major, has an interesting military story, and 00:02:44.050 --> 00:02:47.810 she was in the Pentagon on 9 -11. Susan, welcome 00:02:47.810 --> 00:02:52.960 to Veterans Radio. Thank you so much. It's really 00:02:52.960 --> 00:02:55.539 an honor to be asked to be here. Well, you have 00:02:55.539 --> 00:02:59.400 a unique story that should be told and we hope 00:02:59.400 --> 00:03:02.659 our veteran radio listeners find some new facts 00:03:02.659 --> 00:03:04.659 here that maybe they didn't know about what went 00:03:04.659 --> 00:03:07.360 on after the plane crashed into the Pentagon. 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:11.379 But let's start with more basic stuff. How did 00:03:11.379 --> 00:03:14.259 a nice kid like you from Massachusetts end up 00:03:14.259 --> 00:03:18.610 in the Air Force? You know, it's funny because 00:03:18.610 --> 00:03:22.870 my dad had served He actually his service landed 00:03:22.870 --> 00:03:26.250 kind of between wars He was a radar technician 00:03:26.250 --> 00:03:29.349 and spent some time in Libya, but he never ever 00:03:29.349 --> 00:03:33.530 talked about it and it didn't come up until I 00:03:33.530 --> 00:03:36.610 was you know getting ready to apply for colleges 00:03:36.610 --> 00:03:39.129 so but that point we had moved from Massachusetts 00:03:39.129 --> 00:03:41.729 to California because his company had transferred 00:03:41.729 --> 00:03:46.120 him out and My dad was like, well, have you ever 00:03:46.120 --> 00:03:48.300 thought about, you know, joining the military 00:03:48.300 --> 00:03:50.560 and they could pay for your education and, you 00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:52.460 know, you think about the Academy and things 00:03:52.460 --> 00:03:56.120 like that. And I have to admit, like, I've always 00:03:56.120 --> 00:04:00.360 been kind of a rule follower and just thinking 00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:04.039 like I felt like I'd fit in well with just the 00:04:04.039 --> 00:04:08.300 military way of life. But I really wanted to 00:04:08.300 --> 00:04:12.099 be a physician. And just the more we looked into 00:04:12.099 --> 00:04:14.000 it, the more we thought, well, then maybe the 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:16.279 Academy wasn't the way to go because, you know, 00:04:16.399 --> 00:04:19.480 they definitely can put some restrictions, what 00:04:19.480 --> 00:04:23.620 you do after the Academy. So, you know, I was 00:04:23.620 --> 00:04:26.519 applying to various colleges and programs and 00:04:26.519 --> 00:04:31.120 looking at ROTC. And I ended up being accepted 00:04:31.120 --> 00:04:33.480 into a six -year program where I essentially 00:04:33.480 --> 00:04:35.779 did my bachelor's and my medical degree in six 00:04:35.779 --> 00:04:39.399 years. which meant I was only in college physically 00:04:39.399 --> 00:04:44.339 for two. When I signed up for Air Force ROTC 00:04:44.339 --> 00:04:49.019 at RPI, which was my undergrad, I got there and 00:04:49.019 --> 00:04:51.439 the officers in charge looked at my program and 00:04:51.439 --> 00:04:54.620 they're like, you're doing what? They have three 00:04:54.620 --> 00:04:56.399 -year scholarships and four -year scholarships 00:04:56.399 --> 00:04:58.139 for ROTC, but they just didn't know what to do 00:04:58.139 --> 00:05:00.819 with this two -year program. And so they said, 00:05:00.860 --> 00:05:03.000 well, we really don't think we can help you for 00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:06.040 college. But when you get to med school, there's 00:05:06.040 --> 00:05:08.879 a whole other program. So I decided to stay in 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:12.240 ROTC, even though I wasn't a scholarship cadet, 00:05:12.259 --> 00:05:14.279 just because I figured, well, if I'm going to 00:05:14.279 --> 00:05:15.879 sign up for the military, I should probably know 00:05:15.879 --> 00:05:19.240 what I'm getting into. And I loved it. I mean, 00:05:19.240 --> 00:05:21.319 some of the best friends I've ever made were 00:05:21.319 --> 00:05:25.319 in Air Force ROTC. And I loved the joint mission. 00:05:25.519 --> 00:05:29.740 I loved the idea of serving my country. And, 00:05:29.740 --> 00:05:32.160 you know, I also learned that docs kind of get 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:34.379 of a bad rep in the military of not being real 00:05:34.379 --> 00:05:37.360 officers. And I decided, well, I was going to 00:05:37.360 --> 00:05:39.620 do the best I could to be a real officer, even 00:05:39.620 --> 00:05:43.899 if I was just a doctor. Even if. So you ended 00:05:43.899 --> 00:05:47.019 up getting your medical degree from Albany Medical 00:05:47.019 --> 00:05:49.959 College in coordination with Rensselaer Poly. 00:05:50.269 --> 00:05:56.029 Tech Institute or RPI in short order and came 00:05:56.029 --> 00:06:00.490 out as a freshly minted captain. Where did you 00:06:00.490 --> 00:06:03.149 do your residency and how did your military career 00:06:03.149 --> 00:06:07.949 proceed? So with that scholarship program you 00:06:07.949 --> 00:06:10.910 have the option to apply for a civilian deferral 00:06:10.910 --> 00:06:14.189 to do a civilian residency but again I was like 00:06:14.189 --> 00:06:17.110 well and for a penny and for a pound and I got 00:06:17.110 --> 00:06:19.569 into the family medicine residency at Andrews 00:06:19.569 --> 00:06:23.529 Air Force Base down in Maryland. And so my first 00:06:23.529 --> 00:06:26.569 day of active duty, I was a brand new captain 00:06:26.569 --> 00:06:28.970 and a brand new doctor. And my first rotation 00:06:28.970 --> 00:06:32.550 was on the labor and delivery ward. And I learned 00:06:32.550 --> 00:06:39.649 very quickly that most average officers and enlisted 00:06:39.649 --> 00:06:41.990 who aren't in the medical field, see those captain's 00:06:41.990 --> 00:06:44.470 bars and assume a lot about you that may or may 00:06:44.470 --> 00:06:47.670 not be true. Though it really is a baptism of 00:06:47.670 --> 00:06:50.110 life. This captain, this doctor, she must know 00:06:50.110 --> 00:06:52.529 a lot to be here, right? Little did they know 00:06:52.529 --> 00:06:56.889 it was the first week. Yep. First week wearing 00:06:56.889 --> 00:06:59.689 the uniform every day, other than some summer 00:06:59.689 --> 00:07:03.810 tours I had done in med school. So it was like 00:07:03.810 --> 00:07:07.189 jumping into two deep end pools at the same time. 00:07:07.899 --> 00:07:10.959 Well one of the things that is always interesting 00:07:10.959 --> 00:07:14.579 in talking to people is particularly those who 00:07:14.579 --> 00:07:18.399 go through ROTC. I don't think I've ever talked 00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:20.279 to anybody who didn't go through that process 00:07:20.279 --> 00:07:24.879 and felt it was really powerful in shaping them 00:07:24.879 --> 00:07:27.259 and in giving them insight into the military. 00:07:27.660 --> 00:07:29.879 I don't think we talked to our kids enough about 00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:33.100 this. Was ROTC something that your dad pushed 00:07:33.100 --> 00:07:37.050 or just something that you saw as Hey, I'm interested 00:07:37.050 --> 00:07:39.449 in this field. I'm going to get in knee deep. 00:07:40.110 --> 00:07:41.990 Suddenly, we were looking for how are we going 00:07:41.990 --> 00:07:44.050 to pay for this for college and med school because 00:07:44.050 --> 00:07:45.790 the six -year programming in these schools were 00:07:45.790 --> 00:07:49.810 expensive. That's how it started. But I got to 00:07:49.810 --> 00:07:51.870 tell you in very short order, pretty much by 00:07:51.870 --> 00:07:54.250 the end of what we called our little cadet boot 00:07:54.250 --> 00:07:56.110 camp before freshman year of college started, 00:07:56.250 --> 00:08:00.389 I was like, these are my people. Well, it's good 00:08:00.389 --> 00:08:03.069 to feel that grounded going into college certainly 00:08:03.069 --> 00:08:05.750 and I should mention that you served on active 00:08:05.750 --> 00:08:12.769 duty from 1998 to 2005 you did some reserve time 00:08:12.769 --> 00:08:17.089 while you were in med school back 94 through 00:08:17.089 --> 00:08:19.589 up to 98 and then you did a year in reserves 00:08:19.589 --> 00:08:23.430 afterwards when you finally got out as a major 00:08:23.430 --> 00:08:27.430 because of family dynamics and decisions. So 00:08:27.430 --> 00:08:31.870 you've got a good decade or more of service here 00:08:31.870 --> 00:08:37.549 and tell us how you came to be at the Pentagon 00:08:37.549 --> 00:08:43.629 on September 11th of 2001. Well, my husband and 00:08:43.629 --> 00:08:47.870 I had just gotten married. Okay, you snuck that 00:08:47.870 --> 00:08:50.629 in. Let's tell them where you've met your husband. 00:08:51.649 --> 00:08:56.129 So I met my husband at Andrews. He at the time 00:08:56.129 --> 00:09:03.070 was also a family physician and we got married 00:09:03.070 --> 00:09:06.220 and Obviously, since I'd be graduating residency, 00:09:06.259 --> 00:09:08.980 I'd be finishing my assignment at Andrew's, and 00:09:08.980 --> 00:09:13.059 he wasn't really in the cycle, assignment cycle 00:09:13.059 --> 00:09:15.399 for him to move yet. So since we were married, 00:09:15.879 --> 00:09:21.019 they assigned me to an open slot at the DeLorenzo 00:09:21.019 --> 00:09:23.379 Tricare Health Clinic, which was the big clinic 00:09:23.379 --> 00:09:28.379 in the Pentagon. And so we'd been married, when 00:09:28.379 --> 00:09:30.440 I started the Pentagon in July, we had been married 00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:34.980 for a couple months. And when 9 -11 happened, 00:09:35.019 --> 00:09:38.340 I had been there for all of five weeks. And I 00:09:38.340 --> 00:09:40.740 had a new job as a new attending. There's another 00:09:40.740 --> 00:09:43.220 little twist here, because anybody who's ever 00:09:43.220 --> 00:09:46.720 been in the military and wonder how these guys 00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:49.940 make assignments in the personnel office. So 00:09:49.940 --> 00:09:53.139 you just got married, you're going to be assigned 00:09:53.139 --> 00:09:56.320 to the Pentagon. What did they decide to do with 00:09:56.320 --> 00:10:01.059 your husband at that time, I believe a major, 00:10:02.039 --> 00:10:06.500 where did they decide to send him? So they decided 00:10:06.500 --> 00:10:11.519 it was his turn to do a deployment at Prince 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:16.019 Sultan Air Base in Saudi Arabia. So exactly a 00:10:16.019 --> 00:10:19.940 week before 9 -11, I dropped him off at the airport. 00:10:21.380 --> 00:10:25.080 So here you are, sort of brand new at this clinic 00:10:25.080 --> 00:10:28.600 in the Pentagon. Tell us what your duties were. 00:10:28.779 --> 00:10:33.580 Tell us what was going on sort of in your professional 00:10:33.580 --> 00:10:37.860 career at that point as the events of 9 -11 unfold. 00:10:39.419 --> 00:10:41.919 Okay, so the clinic there is actually pretty 00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:45.600 sizable. It's tri -service, though it's run by 00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:50.399 the Army. And we had primary care, physical therapy. 00:10:50.659 --> 00:10:53.759 We had our own lab, radiology. We also handled 00:10:53.759 --> 00:10:56.799 all emergency services for the building. We had 00:10:56.799 --> 00:10:59.639 little ambulances. They were golf carts, but 00:10:59.639 --> 00:11:01.500 they were like stretch golf carts because I could 00:11:01.500 --> 00:11:05.700 hold a gurney. So if there was any kind of accident 00:11:05.700 --> 00:11:08.080 or someone had a heart attack in the Pentagon, 00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:11.940 we took care of them as well. So when I came 00:11:11.940 --> 00:11:15.700 in, I was a family physician and I also was the 00:11:15.700 --> 00:11:18.639 chief of the physical exam section for the Air 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:21.659 Force. So I was responsible for making sure that 00:11:21.659 --> 00:11:24.220 the three to 4 ,000 Air Force people in the building 00:11:24.220 --> 00:11:27.759 got their physical, but it was what was called 00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:32.639 something called a PHA every year. So on the 00:11:32.639 --> 00:11:34.980 morning of 9 -11, I'd been there about five weeks. 00:11:35.129 --> 00:11:37.289 I still hadn't been anywhere in the building 00:11:37.289 --> 00:11:40.830 without an escort. Usually they send an escort 00:11:40.830 --> 00:11:43.889 with you because they get lost. They hate to 00:11:43.889 --> 00:11:46.909 lose new doctors and new captains in the Pentagon. 00:11:47.049 --> 00:11:49.669 It's just wandering around, don't they? Yeah, 00:11:49.769 --> 00:11:52.710 they call it the five -sided puzzle palace and 00:11:52.710 --> 00:11:56.110 that is no lie. To be honest, I was a little 00:11:56.110 --> 00:11:58.690 afraid to go anywhere beyond the little, you 00:11:58.690 --> 00:12:01.629 know, convenience shop down the hallway without 00:12:01.629 --> 00:12:05.009 somebody with me. So I mainly stuck to the clinic 00:12:05.009 --> 00:12:09.570 and did my work there. And the morning of 9 -11, 00:12:09.590 --> 00:12:12.350 I mean, it was like any other clinic day. And 00:12:12.350 --> 00:12:15.789 I remember walking up to the front desk because 00:12:15.789 --> 00:12:18.070 I hadn't seen a patient in a little bit. And 00:12:18.070 --> 00:12:20.370 I wondered if maybe they had no showed. And I 00:12:20.370 --> 00:12:22.049 noticed there were a bunch of people watching 00:12:22.049 --> 00:12:26.830 the television in the waiting area and showing 00:12:26.830 --> 00:12:29.830 the first plane going into the first building 00:12:29.830 --> 00:12:35.990 in New York City. And so I watched for a few 00:12:35.990 --> 00:12:38.490 minutes. And I remember walking back to one of 00:12:38.490 --> 00:12:40.850 my colleagues' offices and saying, hey, did you 00:12:40.850 --> 00:12:42.970 see what's on TV? A plane flew into the World 00:12:42.970 --> 00:12:45.429 Trade Center. And she has a really kind of dry, 00:12:45.490 --> 00:12:47.750 sarcastic sense of humor. And she goes, well, 00:12:47.789 --> 00:12:49.970 she goes, maybe we ought to just close up, because 00:12:49.970 --> 00:12:53.090 I best learn next. And I mean, I kid you not, 00:12:53.269 --> 00:12:56.710 it probably wasn't 10 minutes later when the 00:12:56.710 --> 00:13:00.980 Pentagon was hit. I didn't feel like a big boom 00:13:00.980 --> 00:13:03.299 or anything, but I was on my feet at the time. 00:13:04.200 --> 00:13:06.860 My colleague said that she sort of felt like 00:13:06.860 --> 00:13:09.039 a wump at her desk. Like if you've ever been 00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:11.460 in a small earthquake in California, it kind 00:13:11.460 --> 00:13:15.779 of feels like that. And your clinic was located 00:13:15.779 --> 00:13:19.440 on the opposite side of the Pentagon from where 00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:22.529 the plane crashed. Is that right? Yes. Yes, and 00:13:22.529 --> 00:13:26.350 the odd thing is it had just moved from that 00:13:26.350 --> 00:13:28.970 location, I want to say maybe a couple years 00:13:28.970 --> 00:13:33.309 before, but the online, the website for the Pentagon, 00:13:34.149 --> 00:13:36.370 like the things on there had not been updated. 00:13:36.990 --> 00:13:39.620 So when this all happened, a bunch of my family 00:13:39.620 --> 00:13:41.700 went on the Pentagon website to see if they could 00:13:41.700 --> 00:13:43.940 figure out where I was, and they thought I was 00:13:43.940 --> 00:13:46.840 right where the plane had hit. But yes, we were 00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:49.620 almost directly opposite. We were right by North 00:13:49.620 --> 00:13:52.299 parking. If you walk in, you go through the turnstiles, 00:13:52.399 --> 00:13:57.279 we're right there on the left. So I - And did 00:13:57.279 --> 00:14:00.960 you think - Go ahead. Did you think, oh, that's 00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:03.039 the plane crashing into us, like my colleague 00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:06.899 said? Or what - Now, what was your immediate 00:14:06.899 --> 00:14:11.059 thought about what had occurred? You know, I 00:14:11.059 --> 00:14:13.840 thought I was a pretty worldly person up to this 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:16.279 point, and today I realized just how naive I 00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:20.759 was because, you know, I went back up to the 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:23.460 front desk and this man comes in and just starts 00:14:23.460 --> 00:14:26.039 screaming, we've been hit, we've been hit, everybody 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:29.470 get out. Then this whole mass of people, which 00:14:29.470 --> 00:14:31.389 actually there was a lot of people in the waiting 00:14:31.389 --> 00:14:33.269 area then and the only thing I can think of is 00:14:33.269 --> 00:14:35.289 that people knew we had a TV and as they were 00:14:35.289 --> 00:14:36.909 coming in the building, they were stopping in 00:14:36.909 --> 00:14:40.750 to get an update on what was going on. This wave 00:14:40.750 --> 00:14:43.389 of people goes out and literally just sweeps 00:14:43.389 --> 00:14:47.370 me out of the building. I get outside and I stop 00:14:47.370 --> 00:14:49.210 and I turn around and I see all these people 00:14:49.210 --> 00:14:53.639 running towards me. I can see smoke coming up 00:14:53.639 --> 00:14:56.179 from far away, like I told you, the other side 00:14:56.179 --> 00:14:59.519 of the building, like not our side. And you know, 00:14:59.539 --> 00:15:03.100 Pentagon is old and that side actually was undergoing 00:15:03.100 --> 00:15:06.620 some very much needed renovations. There was 00:15:06.620 --> 00:15:09.480 places in there that had not had significant 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:12.379 renovations for decades. And I thought, well, 00:15:12.639 --> 00:15:15.259 maybe a gas line blew or like something like 00:15:15.259 --> 00:15:17.399 that. My first thought was not, oh, another plane 00:15:17.399 --> 00:15:20.809 came and hit us. Well, and I think all of us 00:15:20.809 --> 00:15:23.450 watching this I know I was watching it on TV 00:15:23.450 --> 00:15:26.429 as it occurred You know that first plane you 00:15:26.429 --> 00:15:28.850 thought well, how dumb is the pilot? I mean, 00:15:28.850 --> 00:15:34.090 I'm not sure We as Americans necessarily Quickly 00:15:34.090 --> 00:15:37.649 equated it to an organized terrorist attack Did 00:15:37.649 --> 00:15:40.750 your mind ever get there that day or was the 00:15:40.750 --> 00:15:43.309 chaos and the medical needs just so overwhelming? 00:15:43.730 --> 00:15:48.179 It didn't matter why it happened Well, I think 00:15:48.179 --> 00:15:51.360 I think we all got there pretty quickly and I 00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:53.620 think to be honest most people faster than me 00:15:53.620 --> 00:15:56.000 and a lot of rumors started flying because I 00:15:56.000 --> 00:15:58.639 was outside for maybe ten minutes right after 00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:02.559 we all left the building there and You'd hear 00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:05.240 these things. Oh, I heard that there was a bomb 00:16:05.240 --> 00:16:07.860 at Camp David and then it was a car bomb at the 00:16:07.860 --> 00:16:11.000 Capitol. And so I think by then most people had 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:14.139 after the two planes in New York and this one 00:16:14.139 --> 00:16:16.820 had moved into, oh, this was not a series of 00:16:16.820 --> 00:16:20.620 very unfortunate events. This was planned. But 00:16:20.620 --> 00:16:22.740 then at the same time, you're like, well, it 00:16:22.740 --> 00:16:25.080 doesn't really matter. Like, I'm here now and 00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:27.320 there are people that are hurt and we just got 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:31.049 to do what we have to do. You said Initially, 00:16:31.049 --> 00:16:34.629 you're outside for about 10 minutes. Yeah. At 00:16:34.629 --> 00:16:38.149 what point and how does it happen? You say, I 00:16:38.149 --> 00:16:41.629 got to go back inside and help folks. Well, I 00:16:41.629 --> 00:16:44.809 mean, I think after the initial confusion, like 00:16:44.809 --> 00:16:47.250 I didn't see a lot of people from our clinic. 00:16:47.409 --> 00:16:50.769 There was one of the nurses and we had a nursing 00:16:50.769 --> 00:16:54.789 student with us and I didn't have a radio under 00:16:54.789 --> 00:16:59.210 thing. And I learned at that point that normally 00:16:59.529 --> 00:17:01.309 Every day in the clinic, we had something called 00:17:01.309 --> 00:17:03.250 the emergency team in case something happened 00:17:03.250 --> 00:17:05.690 in the building and there'd be, you know, some 00:17:05.690 --> 00:17:08.529 medics, a nurse, a doc, and they would all have 00:17:08.529 --> 00:17:10.490 a walkie talkie. And so you'd still go about 00:17:10.490 --> 00:17:12.410 doing your normal stuff. But in case an emergency 00:17:12.410 --> 00:17:14.289 came up, everybody was reachable and they had 00:17:14.289 --> 00:17:16.309 go bags with all the supplies and that kind of 00:17:16.309 --> 00:17:18.470 stuff. Well, I didn't have one of those radios 00:17:18.470 --> 00:17:20.750 because I wasn't on the emergency team. They 00:17:20.750 --> 00:17:23.490 didn't make me do that duty until I had gotten 00:17:23.490 --> 00:17:26.880 my feet a little wetter there. And then one of 00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:30.039 the other medics was outside and ran up and handed 00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:33.180 me his radio. And it was just a, it was really 00:17:33.180 --> 00:17:35.660 a cluster of all sorts of people talking, but 00:17:35.660 --> 00:17:38.880 I realized that everyone was, you know, was still 00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:41.440 back in there. So I said, well, if that's where 00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:43.559 we're going, we're go back in the building. So 00:17:43.559 --> 00:17:46.579 I went back inside and the first place I stopped 00:17:46.579 --> 00:17:50.210 was the clinic. And it was like, then I put this, 00:17:50.390 --> 00:17:52.549 I told this to Mr. Stirner, it was like, it was 00:17:52.549 --> 00:17:55.069 kind of like mash. Like there were, the waiting 00:17:55.069 --> 00:17:57.210 area was just people on the floor and they were 00:17:57.210 --> 00:17:59.589 trying to start IVs, there were people with burns, 00:17:59.730 --> 00:18:02.789 there were people with injuries. And our commander 00:18:02.789 --> 00:18:06.269 was at Walter Reed that day. And so the next 00:18:06.269 --> 00:18:08.309 clinical person in command, the chief nurse, 00:18:08.630 --> 00:18:11.650 gave me her radio or told me to keep my radio 00:18:11.650 --> 00:18:13.930 and said, I need you to go to where the plane 00:18:13.930 --> 00:18:16.269 hit and tell me how many casualties we have there. 00:18:16.990 --> 00:18:18.869 And I don't think she was realizing at the time 00:18:18.869 --> 00:18:22.009 that out of everybody in the room, I hear the 00:18:22.009 --> 00:18:23.430 least about how to get around in the building. 00:18:23.509 --> 00:18:27.230 There's those captain bars again. Yeah, like 00:18:27.230 --> 00:18:30.730 just we're nothing but trouble. And so like I 00:18:30.730 --> 00:18:32.769 didn't realize that you could just cut straight 00:18:32.769 --> 00:18:34.349 up that there were like spokes of the wheel and 00:18:34.349 --> 00:18:36.109 that you could just cut straight up into the 00:18:36.109 --> 00:18:38.029 center courtyard and cut across to the other 00:18:38.029 --> 00:18:40.690 side. I hadn't been there yet. So I followed 00:18:40.690 --> 00:18:43.349 the path ways that I had been taken on before 00:18:43.349 --> 00:18:45.390 when I had to go to various offices when I was 00:18:45.390 --> 00:18:49.410 in processing. And so I ended up working my way 00:18:49.410 --> 00:18:52.539 up. I think to the fourth floor of the building. 00:18:52.819 --> 00:18:54.779 And I thought I must be getting really close 00:18:54.779 --> 00:18:57.059 because the smoke started getting really bad. 00:18:57.400 --> 00:19:00.599 But again, one of the weird physics of the sort 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:03.779 of circular nature of the Pentagon is that once 00:19:03.779 --> 00:19:06.539 that explosion happened, the smoke kind of got 00:19:06.539 --> 00:19:08.880 drawn and sucked all the way around the circle. 00:19:09.380 --> 00:19:11.619 So it was really, really smoky, but I actually 00:19:11.619 --> 00:19:13.880 wasn't anywhere near the crash site. But there 00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:16.299 were a lot of people milling around confused. 00:19:17.130 --> 00:19:19.549 I ran into a couple people from the clinic and 00:19:19.549 --> 00:19:21.109 they said, look, we have to get these people 00:19:21.109 --> 00:19:24.930 out of here. And so we were running down just 00:19:24.930 --> 00:19:27.650 banging on doors and directing people to the 00:19:27.650 --> 00:19:30.109 only open ways we knew to get out of the building. 00:19:31.250 --> 00:19:32.849 The smoke just kept getting worse and worse. 00:19:32.910 --> 00:19:34.650 And it got to the point where we were just crawling 00:19:34.650 --> 00:19:38.670 on our hands and knees until basically we couldn't 00:19:38.670 --> 00:19:41.130 we couldn't find any more people. No more people 00:19:41.130 --> 00:19:44.829 were answering knocks on doors. And then we got 00:19:44.829 --> 00:19:48.579 a call on the radio from the security of the 00:19:48.579 --> 00:19:52.960 Pentagon and they said, we have reports of another 00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:55.079 plane incoming and everybody needs to get out 00:19:55.079 --> 00:19:58.480 of the building now. Just has to be frightening. 00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:01.839 I mean, just I know those of us who watched it 00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:05.539 on TV were frightened, but to be on the ground, 00:20:05.619 --> 00:20:09.819 to smell it, to breathe that smoke, to see people 00:20:09.819 --> 00:20:14.049 who were injured. It just had to be frightening. 00:20:14.369 --> 00:20:19.450 And I guess I'm wondering how it struck you in 00:20:19.450 --> 00:20:24.789 the moment. To be honest, in that moment, it 00:20:24.789 --> 00:20:27.829 hadn't really hit me yet. I don't know if that's 00:20:27.829 --> 00:20:29.849 just, you know, a blessing from God in the way 00:20:29.849 --> 00:20:32.490 he enables our brain to compartmentalize. But 00:20:32.490 --> 00:20:36.230 in that moment, all I could think about was what's 00:20:36.230 --> 00:20:39.849 the next right thing we need to do. And so we 00:20:39.849 --> 00:20:44.559 headed back down to the clinic. They were trying 00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:46.579 to basically get as many supplies from inside 00:20:46.579 --> 00:20:48.279 the clinic to outside so we could get out of 00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:51.839 the building. This is a clinic, it's not an ER, 00:20:51.880 --> 00:20:56.680 it's not a hospital, you have limited. No, but 00:20:56.680 --> 00:21:00.579 I will say it is one of the nicest supplied clinics 00:21:00.579 --> 00:21:05.059 I've ever worked in in my career. Like I said, 00:21:05.079 --> 00:21:09.460 we have a mini ER of sorts. We could do quite 00:21:09.460 --> 00:21:12.660 a bit. before say an ambulance would arrive if 00:21:12.660 --> 00:21:16.299 someone was in dire straits. So we had a couple 00:21:16.299 --> 00:21:19.599 of intubation kits, we had oxygen tanks, we had 00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:24.200 IVs, all that kind of stuff. And then we had 00:21:24.200 --> 00:21:27.740 our own pharmacy, so there was medications. So 00:21:27.740 --> 00:21:29.759 everyone in each of the clinic rooms had like 00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:32.160 a little... You know, those craftsmen tool kits, 00:21:32.259 --> 00:21:34.920 it kind of looks like that, but more hospitally 00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:37.619 full of supplies. So they were rolling those 00:21:37.619 --> 00:21:39.839 out. We were opening up the supply cabinets, 00:21:39.940 --> 00:21:42.160 like filling up, you know, an empty trash bin, 00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:44.700 all that kind of stuff. So everything. And then 00:21:44.700 --> 00:21:48.140 we just got outside and and out in North parking. 00:21:48.660 --> 00:21:52.049 There were quite. a few wounded out there already. 00:21:52.470 --> 00:21:54.829 I think the majority were actually on the other 00:21:54.829 --> 00:21:57.089 side on the outside of the south area where the 00:21:57.089 --> 00:21:58.970 plane crashed and I would say probably half our 00:21:58.970 --> 00:22:02.930 folks had already gone in that direction to work 00:22:02.930 --> 00:22:07.049 out there. So we got out of the building and 00:22:07.049 --> 00:22:09.390 then it was a matter of trying to treat the people 00:22:09.390 --> 00:22:13.809 that we had in front of us there. I do have some 00:22:13.809 --> 00:22:16.750 pretty indelible mental images from there. I 00:22:16.750 --> 00:22:20.329 mean, people had jumped out windows, people had 00:22:20.329 --> 00:22:23.130 been thrown into walls by the blast, and then 00:22:23.130 --> 00:22:25.890 just smoke inhalation, this can be so deadly 00:22:25.890 --> 00:22:30.890 very quickly. So we did our best to treat the 00:22:30.890 --> 00:22:34.970 people on the ground the best we could. And then 00:22:34.970 --> 00:22:37.309 when we stopped getting ambulances, because they 00:22:37.309 --> 00:22:41.440 had closed all the roads for security, our head 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:44.279 administrative guy, he wasn't a doc, but he was 00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:47.259 right below the doc who was the commander, just 00:22:47.259 --> 00:22:49.440 started getting people to take people to the 00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:52.259 hospital and even commandeered someone's SUV 00:22:52.259 --> 00:22:55.599 himself. And they'd pull up their cars or whatever, 00:22:55.799 --> 00:22:57.599 we'd put all the seats down, slide the gurney 00:22:57.599 --> 00:22:59.720 in the back with a medic and send them off to 00:22:59.720 --> 00:23:04.779 the hospital. It really sounds like the team 00:23:04.779 --> 00:23:09.279 came together and just did what needed to be 00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:13.480 done And that was really something that always 00:23:13.480 --> 00:23:15.960 attracted you to the military was sort of that 00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:21.859 higher team obligation, goal, mission. It sounds 00:23:21.859 --> 00:23:24.940 like that's what happened that day. I mean, it 00:23:24.940 --> 00:23:28.460 really did. I mean, was it a chaotic hot mess? 00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:33.700 Yes. We always do the exact right thing, no, 00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:36.019 but we did not have the supplies we needed and 00:23:36.019 --> 00:23:38.299 we were just doing the best we could to keep 00:23:38.299 --> 00:23:40.400 people alive until they could get to a higher 00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:45.000 level of care. And it was, yeah, it's one of 00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:47.079 those things that I think if any of us had had 00:23:47.079 --> 00:23:50.059 the chance to stop and think, people are falling 00:23:50.059 --> 00:23:53.279 apart, but it's, you train and you train and 00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:56.500 you train and this is why. So that when you know 00:23:56.500 --> 00:24:01.200 what hits the fan, you just, You just do. There's 00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:05.640 also a personal side of this. I know in that 00:24:05.640 --> 00:24:08.279 while this is going, you've got to be thinking 00:24:08.279 --> 00:24:11.180 about your new husband. You've got to be thinking 00:24:11.180 --> 00:24:14.440 about your mom and dad. There's no cell phone 00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:17.859 service. And you're you're on the ground at the 00:24:17.859 --> 00:24:21.880 Pentagon for what, 10, 12 hours? Yeah, I mean, 00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:25.250 I was there till sometime between. like eight 00:24:25.250 --> 00:24:28.490 and nine o 'clock that night. And at one point, 00:24:29.289 --> 00:24:33.849 you know, we did have not quite quiet, but stiller 00:24:33.849 --> 00:24:35.769 moments when we had done all we can do and we 00:24:35.769 --> 00:24:38.529 were waiting. And it did occur to me, I'm like, 00:24:38.549 --> 00:24:41.390 I don't know what my parents know. And at this 00:24:41.390 --> 00:24:44.289 point, because all we knew was that New York 00:24:44.289 --> 00:24:45.869 had been attacked, we had been attacked, and 00:24:45.869 --> 00:24:47.509 there was another plane in the air. Like I'm 00:24:47.509 --> 00:24:50.190 like, I mean, did World War III just start? Like 00:24:50.190 --> 00:24:54.119 we had no context to put all of this in. So I 00:24:54.119 --> 00:24:56.660 did think about my husband Steve and I thought 00:24:56.660 --> 00:24:59.299 about my parents, but also at the same time at 00:24:59.299 --> 00:25:01.180 that moment there was nothing I could do about 00:25:01.180 --> 00:25:04.900 it. I mean, eventually once we had taken care 00:25:04.900 --> 00:25:09.920 of everyone we could outside, they asked us to 00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:12.099 go back in the building just to cut through to 00:25:12.099 --> 00:25:14.660 get to that center courtyard so that we could 00:25:14.660 --> 00:25:17.339 be right behind where the plane had gone in. 00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:19.880 So that way there were medical teams on both 00:25:19.880 --> 00:25:22.670 sides of the wreckage. because they didn't know 00:25:22.670 --> 00:25:24.490 if they were going to find any further survivors. 00:25:24.490 --> 00:25:26.210 They didn't know what direction they'd be easiest 00:25:26.210 --> 00:25:27.789 to get them out. And they just basically wanted 00:25:27.789 --> 00:25:31.250 to have medical teams ready on either side. So 00:25:31.250 --> 00:25:34.750 we walked through and we got all set up and we 00:25:34.750 --> 00:25:37.849 divided into our triage teams, you know, like 00:25:37.849 --> 00:25:40.890 immediate and delayed and things like that. Talk 00:25:40.890 --> 00:25:42.890 about that a little bit in the book. And then 00:25:42.890 --> 00:25:45.150 it was a matter of waiting to see who would come 00:25:45.150 --> 00:25:48.190 out. And during that waiting time, someone who 00:25:48.190 --> 00:25:50.390 did have a cell phone on them and had battery 00:25:50.859 --> 00:25:53.440 was very generous and just passed their phone 00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:55.819 around and let everybody make one quick call. 00:25:57.299 --> 00:26:00.460 So nobody could get through long distance, though. 00:26:00.660 --> 00:26:02.759 Multiple people tried and it was just completely 00:26:02.759 --> 00:26:05.960 it was it was completely jammed. And it's going 00:26:05.960 --> 00:26:08.140 to show like the times, but I happened to have 00:26:08.140 --> 00:26:11.720 my Palm Pilot in my lab coat pocket and it had 00:26:11.720 --> 00:26:16.240 my. I remember thinking that was like the height 00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:20.240 of technology. I had my church's phone number 00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:22.759 in it, and we were getting some local calls through, 00:26:22.779 --> 00:26:26.059 so I called my church and talked to the church 00:26:26.059 --> 00:26:27.799 secretary, who was a friend of mine, and I gave 00:26:27.799 --> 00:26:29.960 her my parents' phone numbers. And I said, can 00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:32.819 you just please keep calling until you get through, 00:26:33.339 --> 00:26:36.339 and tell them I'm alive, and ask them to email 00:26:36.339 --> 00:26:39.480 Steve in Saudi and tell him I'm alive, because 00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:41.240 I think that's probably the fastest way we can 00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:45.140 get word to him. So I got to talk to her for 00:26:45.140 --> 00:26:47.420 five minutes and then I passed the phone on to 00:26:47.420 --> 00:26:50.700 my boss so she could call her family. And so 00:26:50.700 --> 00:26:54.700 I did get that chance to put word out. But my 00:26:54.700 --> 00:26:59.660 boss was a rock all day and my direct supervisor 00:26:59.660 --> 00:27:03.940 and she's like a sister to me now. But when she 00:27:03.940 --> 00:27:05.859 managed to get her sister on the phone, she started 00:27:05.859 --> 00:27:08.579 to break a little bit. And I realized I'd like 00:27:08.579 --> 00:27:10.279 I was actually grateful that I couldn't get a 00:27:10.279 --> 00:27:11.839 hold of my parents because I think I might have 00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:14.500 been done after that. Yeah, absolutely. It's 00:27:14.500 --> 00:27:17.519 hard to stay focused and you have that situation 00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:20.380 where you've worked all day and you're trying 00:27:20.380 --> 00:27:23.140 to let people know that you're OK. Many, many 00:27:23.140 --> 00:27:28.819 weren't. As you went through this and again was 00:27:28.819 --> 00:27:30.759 said you were on the ground for probably 12 hours 00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:35.519 here. When you get home, what's the what's the 00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:41.549 decompress? Yeah, that was hard. I remember pulling 00:27:41.549 --> 00:27:45.730 in to our driveway. We had a little house in 00:27:45.730 --> 00:27:48.730 Alexandria and one of my elderly neighbors, she 00:27:48.730 --> 00:27:50.809 was kind of like the watchdog of our cul -de 00:27:50.809 --> 00:27:53.250 -sac. She had been sitting in her window all 00:27:53.250 --> 00:27:56.519 day watching to see if I came home. I remember 00:27:56.519 --> 00:27:58.660 getting out of the car. I hadn't even put my 00:27:58.660 --> 00:28:01.799 cover back on to get in the car and I still had 00:28:01.799 --> 00:28:05.440 the trauma gown over my lab coat. I remember 00:28:05.440 --> 00:28:07.579 just stripping all this off and throwing it in 00:28:07.579 --> 00:28:09.420 the trunk. I didn't even want it in the house. 00:28:10.400 --> 00:28:13.900 I went in the house and there were probably about 00:28:13.900 --> 00:28:18.279 30 messages on my answering machine. My best 00:28:18.279 --> 00:28:21.480 friend from college, from ROTC, Tracy Beers, 00:28:22.320 --> 00:28:28.039 She actually was at training in another state. 00:28:28.619 --> 00:28:33.740 She was not a doc, she was a real officer. When 00:28:33.740 --> 00:28:37.539 she heard what happened, she grabbed the phone 00:28:37.539 --> 00:28:39.920 list for our church and started calling all our 00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:42.900 friends and literally set up several nights of 00:28:42.900 --> 00:28:44.940 people coming over to spend the night at my house 00:28:44.940 --> 00:28:50.200 so that I wouldn't be alone. That's one of the 00:28:50.200 --> 00:28:52.960 stories, I think, or one of the attributes of 00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:54.779 military service people don't understand. You 00:28:54.779 --> 00:28:58.480 make these really deep connections with people, 00:28:59.079 --> 00:29:01.940 and they become part of the support network in 00:29:01.940 --> 00:29:05.599 the family, don't they? Absolutely, absolutely. 00:29:05.980 --> 00:29:08.160 And so while I'm there answering the phone, this 00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:11.220 couple from our church, Greg and Emily Maurer, 00:29:11.220 --> 00:29:13.859 they show up with an overnight bag and a big 00:29:13.859 --> 00:29:18.599 pot of chili and said, we're here. So, and like, 00:29:18.859 --> 00:29:20.220 I kind of felt bad because I actually didn't 00:29:20.220 --> 00:29:22.480 end up spending much time with him at all because 00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:25.460 I had so many phone calls to answer and I desperately 00:29:25.460 --> 00:29:28.980 needed a shower. And it was just, it was still 00:29:28.980 --> 00:29:31.759 kind of a chaotic night, but just having them 00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:34.240 in the house and because, you know, being in 00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:37.180 a, it was a decent size house all by yourself. 00:29:37.859 --> 00:29:39.779 Like at night, that was already a little creepy 00:29:39.779 --> 00:29:41.839 for me when my husband gone, but after everything 00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:45.039 that had happened that day. It was just so nice 00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:46.720 to know there was somebody there if I needed 00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:51.779 them. I wasn't alone. I want to get a couple 00:29:51.779 --> 00:29:54.220 of stories in before we run out of time. One 00:29:54.220 --> 00:29:58.500 of the ones is, when you sent Steve off to the 00:29:58.500 --> 00:30:01.019 Middle East and you thought, well, that's the 00:30:01.019 --> 00:30:03.400 dangerous assignment here. Little did you know 00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:05.359 that the dangerous assignment was going to be 00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:09.329 in the clinic at the Pentagon on 9 -11. You ultimately, 00:30:09.869 --> 00:30:11.690 the phones are back up and you can make some 00:30:11.690 --> 00:30:15.509 international calls, brief calls, but you had 00:30:15.509 --> 00:30:17.569 to use those captain bars again, didn't you? 00:30:18.769 --> 00:30:22.269 This is the only time I ever pulled rank because 00:30:22.269 --> 00:30:24.869 we had these, they called them hearts apart calls 00:30:24.869 --> 00:30:27.950 where you got 15 minutes once a week to speak 00:30:27.950 --> 00:30:31.210 to your person overseas and you'd call. For me, 00:30:31.470 --> 00:30:33.670 I would call the operator at Andrews and he would 00:30:33.670 --> 00:30:37.009 patch me through. I called them and And I probably 00:30:37.009 --> 00:30:38.390 should have given them the benefit of the doubt, 00:30:38.549 --> 00:30:41.029 but but literally they would just call off at 00:30:41.029 --> 00:30:43.589 15 minutes without any warning. And I told them 00:30:43.589 --> 00:30:46.130 and I said, look, this is who I am. This is where 00:30:46.130 --> 00:30:48.910 I've been all day. This is where my husband is. 00:30:49.069 --> 00:30:51.630 I said, this is not going to be a 15 minute call. 00:30:52.049 --> 00:30:54.170 I'm like, I'm going to try not to abuse it. But 00:30:54.170 --> 00:30:57.369 if you cut us off, I'm going to meet you in your 00:30:57.369 --> 00:30:59.490 supervisor's office tomorrow. I'm going to find 00:30:59.490 --> 00:31:04.430 you. At that point, I just had no, you know, 00:31:04.529 --> 00:31:09.119 cares left. We can laugh about it a little bit 00:31:09.119 --> 00:31:13.180 in hindsight 20 years later, but the reality 00:31:13.180 --> 00:31:19.440 of it is that day was traumatic and you had to 00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:21.980 be thinking about people you were able to save, 00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:24.559 people you weren't able to save, people maybe 00:31:24.559 --> 00:31:27.240 didn't get the medicine they needed for the pain. 00:31:27.940 --> 00:31:30.660 Talk a little bit about maybe those whispers 00:31:30.660 --> 00:31:35.029 in the night that you heard. Yeah, I mean, the 00:31:35.029 --> 00:31:38.470 nightmares were a real thing. That first night, 00:31:38.650 --> 00:31:40.089 those were, I mean, I don't think I went to sleep 00:31:40.089 --> 00:31:43.970 till almost two in the morning. And I woke up 00:31:43.970 --> 00:31:47.269 to a nightmare at about four, where I was standing 00:31:47.269 --> 00:31:51.349 in that North parking grass area and just surrounded 00:31:51.349 --> 00:31:54.470 by people on the ground holding me by the legs 00:31:54.470 --> 00:31:56.730 and all of them going, why won't you help me? 00:31:56.750 --> 00:32:00.789 Why won't, why won't you help me? And when I 00:32:00.789 --> 00:32:03.349 woke up, I remember I sat up and I knew I was 00:32:03.349 --> 00:32:05.170 in my bed and I could still hear the voices. 00:32:06.390 --> 00:32:08.630 And while that was probably the worst one, those 00:32:08.630 --> 00:32:11.029 nightmares didn't go away for a while. You had 00:32:11.029 --> 00:32:13.509 a strong faith and your church supported you, 00:32:13.630 --> 00:32:16.589 your pastor supported you. Again, back to that 00:32:16.589 --> 00:32:18.750 in the military, you tend to move around a lot 00:32:18.750 --> 00:32:21.789 and you make strong family connections, support 00:32:21.789 --> 00:32:24.769 connections in a lot of different ways. But one 00:32:24.769 --> 00:32:30.369 way was faith based. Oh, absolutely. When I went 00:32:30.369 --> 00:32:33.569 back in that morning at about 430, they made 00:32:33.569 --> 00:32:36.890 the plan that, OK, we're going to send some of 00:32:36.890 --> 00:32:38.490 you home and have you come back at night because 00:32:38.490 --> 00:32:41.549 now we're going to 24 -7 ops so that the clinic 00:32:41.549 --> 00:32:43.710 is always open for all the people in the building 00:32:43.710 --> 00:32:46.470 who are dealing with the aftermath of what happened. 00:32:47.269 --> 00:32:49.450 So I ended up leaving again probably around 9 00:32:49.450 --> 00:32:50.849 o 'clock that morning because I was going to 00:32:50.849 --> 00:32:53.490 be on night shift and I went straight to my church. 00:32:54.500 --> 00:32:58.339 And I literally crumpled in my friend's arms 00:32:58.339 --> 00:33:02.079 when she answered the door and sat with my pastor 00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:04.500 for a long time and got the most amazing hug, 00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:06.319 which had all the hugs in it that I couldn't 00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:08.359 get from all the people I really needed it from, 00:33:08.519 --> 00:33:12.960 like my parents and my husband. And just had 00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:15.599 time to pray with him and he and his wife. Actually, 00:33:15.660 --> 00:33:17.720 later that week I was coming home from a night 00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:19.500 shift and I was just creeped out about going 00:33:19.500 --> 00:33:21.640 to the house alone. I was still having nightmares. 00:33:22.109 --> 00:33:24.950 They had me come to their house. They set me 00:33:24.950 --> 00:33:26.869 up in one of their kids rooms who was away at 00:33:26.869 --> 00:33:30.569 college with a TV so that I could watch the news 00:33:30.569 --> 00:33:33.950 if I needed to. I slept in the next morning because 00:33:33.950 --> 00:33:36.470 it was Saturday and they had breakfast all laid 00:33:36.470 --> 00:33:38.390 out for me even though they had gone to do their 00:33:38.390 --> 00:33:44.829 errands for the day. You can't ever put enough 00:33:44.829 --> 00:33:48.880 gratitude on that. And I think it highlights 00:33:48.880 --> 00:33:51.039 the importance for those of us who maybe aren't 00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:54.500 in the center of the chaos to remember to help 00:33:54.500 --> 00:33:57.539 those who were in the center of the chaos. I 00:33:57.539 --> 00:33:59.339 want to point out to folks, and we're talking 00:33:59.339 --> 00:34:06.460 to Susan Galvin, she retired as a major in the 00:34:06.460 --> 00:34:08.900 United States Air Force, she's an M .D., but 00:34:08.900 --> 00:34:11.420 she also, although she was in the Air Force, 00:34:11.880 --> 00:34:15.530 she received the U .S. Army Soldiers Medal. The 00:34:15.530 --> 00:34:19.309 Soldiers Medal is authorized to be by Congress 00:34:19.309 --> 00:34:22.750 for the President to present to people who have 00:34:24.119 --> 00:34:27.019 done heroic acts in the Call of Duty, and there 00:34:27.019 --> 00:34:30.079 were a number of folks who received this for 00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:33.519 their actions on September 11th. And as the citation 00:34:33.519 --> 00:34:36.420 says, quote, without regard for her own life, 00:34:36.579 --> 00:34:38.800 Captain Gelvin went to the rescue of the injured 00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:41.380 and dying personnel to render medical care and 00:34:41.380 --> 00:34:44.400 evacuate them to safety. Despite the continuous 00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:46.699 danger to herself, a smoke fire in the building 00:34:46.699 --> 00:34:49.139 collapsing, she continued to risk her life on 00:34:49.139 --> 00:34:52.000 numerous occasions to rescue those needing medical 00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:57.550 attention. close quote. But you, even getting 00:34:57.550 --> 00:35:00.090 that medal left you with certain feelings of 00:35:00.090 --> 00:35:05.250 guilt, didn't it? Oh, absolutely. I mean, we 00:35:05.250 --> 00:35:08.329 had a lot of sessions where we had to debrief 00:35:08.329 --> 00:35:11.170 what happened and just hearing what some of my 00:35:11.170 --> 00:35:15.730 colleagues had done. They were far more deserving 00:35:15.730 --> 00:35:17.949 of that medal than I was. I mean, I literally 00:35:17.949 --> 00:35:20.409 felt like I got that medal because I got lost 00:35:20.409 --> 00:35:22.369 in the building and just tried to do the right 00:35:22.369 --> 00:35:25.690 thing. We're back to that new captain thing. 00:35:26.210 --> 00:35:29.909 Yeah, I mean, I just thought you shouldn't get 00:35:29.909 --> 00:35:32.869 a medal for being clueless, but. But we're kind 00:35:32.869 --> 00:35:35.989 of back to that. I think we all go through this 00:35:35.989 --> 00:35:39.750 in life, but and we wonder why me, right? Wasn't 00:35:39.750 --> 00:35:45.090 there a lot of why you after this? Oh, oh, yeah. 00:35:45.530 --> 00:35:49.809 You know, just why did I survive? Why did God 00:35:49.809 --> 00:35:51.869 make it so that the clinic moved to the opposite 00:35:51.869 --> 00:35:53.929 side of the building before this happened, you 00:35:53.929 --> 00:35:58.349 know? Yeah, I mean, survivor guilt's a real thing. 00:35:58.630 --> 00:36:00.789 And I remember helping a lot of patients through 00:36:00.789 --> 00:36:02.909 that. I mean, I have a lot of my clinic visits 00:36:02.909 --> 00:36:05.750 in the aftermath of this, especially at night, 00:36:06.289 --> 00:36:07.809 where people come in and they just needed to 00:36:07.809 --> 00:36:13.059 talk or cry or... Just get reality checked that 00:36:13.059 --> 00:36:15.039 you know, you know what? it's okay that you're 00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:17.699 alive and and and your your life is valuable 00:36:17.699 --> 00:36:21.159 and and Let's see how we can live our lives to 00:36:21.159 --> 00:36:25.139 to bring value to those that didn't make it And 00:36:25.139 --> 00:36:27.099 we certainly hear that sort of men from those 00:36:27.099 --> 00:36:29.039 who have been in combat and wonder, you know 00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:31.199 Why did I survive and the guy next to me got 00:36:31.199 --> 00:36:35.539 shot in the head and died? And part of that is 00:36:35.539 --> 00:36:38.360 that survivor's guilt, but then you start thinking 00:36:38.360 --> 00:36:40.619 about the things that wouldn't be the same, right? 00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:45.059 You have three lovely kids, a great marriage, 00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:48.900 your husband continued on in the service. You 00:36:48.900 --> 00:36:53.360 chose to focus on the family and get out of the 00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:58.010 Air Force ultimately. Had a medical career in 00:36:58.010 --> 00:37:00.369 the civilian world, but ultimately had to retire 00:37:00.369 --> 00:37:04.730 from practicing medicine around 2023 because 00:37:04.730 --> 00:37:08.389 of some Medical conditions that you sort of attribute 00:37:08.389 --> 00:37:12.590 to that day and all that jazz you Breathed in 00:37:12.590 --> 00:37:16.769 and all that smoke and fumes Really? That days 00:37:16.769 --> 00:37:19.710 had an impact good and bad on your life, hasn't 00:37:19.710 --> 00:37:24.469 it? Yeah, I mean, I mean I think I yeah, I mean 00:37:24.469 --> 00:37:28.000 I look at my kids who are three amazing people 00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:30.059 and I couldn't imagine a world without the minutes. 00:37:33.579 --> 00:37:36.679 You talked about my faith is very important to 00:37:36.679 --> 00:37:38.900 me and I believe in the sovereign tree of God. 00:37:39.659 --> 00:37:43.880 I believe that his will is perfect. This is the 00:37:43.880 --> 00:37:48.320 path he's put me on for my life. I love science 00:37:48.320 --> 00:37:49.719 fiction, but I don't really believe there are 00:37:49.719 --> 00:37:51.800 these parallel universes that would occur if 00:37:51.800 --> 00:37:56.099 we had just made this different decision. and 00:37:56.099 --> 00:37:59.579 I'm just thankful. If anything I've learned that 00:37:59.579 --> 00:38:02.000 every day that I wake up and breathing is a good 00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:04.480 day and I'm going to be thankful for it. Absolutely, 00:38:04.519 --> 00:38:08.320 we're on the right side of the grass. As you 00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:12.320 look back and think about what started as joining 00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:16.179 ROTC and then doing the scholarship to get through 00:38:16.179 --> 00:38:19.039 medical school and then active duty and reserves, 00:38:19.960 --> 00:38:22.239 as you think back on this, did you make the right 00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:26.019 decisions to go down that path? Yeah, I wouldn't 00:38:26.019 --> 00:38:30.340 change a thing. And if one of your kids came 00:38:30.340 --> 00:38:32.400 to you and said, I want to get in the, I'm going 00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:35.380 to join the service, where's mom and dad on that? 00:38:36.579 --> 00:38:38.739 That's funny. Our son definitely has that leaning. 00:38:40.920 --> 00:38:43.920 You know, we also have a very realistic view 00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:47.480 of it. Like you have to know going in what it 00:38:47.480 --> 00:38:50.619 truly means to be, you know, to serve at the 00:38:50.619 --> 00:38:53.469 pleasure of the government. that the mission 00:38:53.469 --> 00:38:57.210 is always gonna come ahead of your personal needs. 00:38:57.989 --> 00:39:00.429 And you have to be okay with that and be able 00:39:00.429 --> 00:39:05.969 to serve conscientiously and diligently knowing 00:39:05.969 --> 00:39:10.710 that. So I'm not sure what his final decision 00:39:10.710 --> 00:39:12.750 is gonna be, but we just wanna make sure he goes 00:39:12.750 --> 00:39:15.150 in with his eyes open that, you know, my husband 00:39:15.150 --> 00:39:18.530 and I both loved our careers. We loved, I mean, 00:39:18.530 --> 00:39:21.570 I got to do things that... doctor never get to 00:39:21.570 --> 00:39:25.690 do. But at the same time, you need to realize 00:39:25.690 --> 00:39:28.090 the strength of the commitment and the risks 00:39:28.090 --> 00:39:30.809 that come with it and be willing to take the 00:39:30.809 --> 00:39:33.750 bad with the good. Well, we appreciate the time 00:39:33.750 --> 00:39:37.010 that Major Susan Galvin has given to Veterans 00:39:37.010 --> 00:39:40.469 Radio today. She was a doctor at the Pentagon 00:39:40.469 --> 00:39:45.079 on 9 -11. It's, you know, the ripple effects 00:39:45.079 --> 00:39:48.460 of that are still being seen today. Susan, thanks 00:39:48.460 --> 00:39:52.440 for taking time to talk to Veterans Radio. Oh, 00:39:52.619 --> 00:39:55.380 this was, it was really just an honor being asked. 00:39:56.599 --> 00:39:59.059 And just thank you for having me. And again, 00:39:59.059 --> 00:40:01.699 I'll remind folks that you can find more of her 00:40:01.699 --> 00:40:05.280 story and other amazing women who have served 00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:08.960 in the military in a book called Beyond Belief 00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:12.539 Series, True Stories of Women Heroes. that defy 00:40:12.539 --> 00:40:16.659 comprehension. The editor of all of that is none 00:40:16.659 --> 00:40:19.420 other than Doug Sterner. He puts together a great 00:40:19.420 --> 00:40:21.920 group and they write great chapters and stories 00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:24.380 that you probably haven't heard anywhere else. 00:40:24.519 --> 00:40:27.480 And we're proud to bring this story of Susan 00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:30.639 Galvin to the veteran radio listeners. We want 00:40:30.639 --> 00:40:33.300 to give you a little advance notice. We're going 00:40:33.300 --> 00:40:37.619 to have a veterans radio event on Sunday, September 00:40:37.619 --> 00:40:43.159 28th, 2025. Radio on the River. We're doing a 00:40:43.159 --> 00:40:46.559 new location on Freedom River in Livingston County, 00:40:46.579 --> 00:40:49.300 Michigan. We want you to save the date. We're 00:40:49.300 --> 00:40:51.119 going to have veteran storytelling and guest 00:40:51.119 --> 00:40:54.659 speakers. We'll have raffle items, great local 00:40:54.659 --> 00:40:58.480 musicians and food. Also, uniquely, there's going 00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:01.960 to be an opportunity to fly in a UH -1 Huey from 00:41:01.960 --> 00:41:04.960 the Michigan Flight Museum. And maybe you can 00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:09.070 also win a free ride that way. Plan on supporting 00:41:09.070 --> 00:41:13.130 Veterans Radio either by buying tickets or sponsoring 00:41:13.130 --> 00:41:19.130 Radio on the River. Contact us at dale at veteransradio 00:41:19.130 --> 00:41:22.590 .org or jim at veteransradio .org to get more 00:41:22.590 --> 00:41:24.909 information, but we'd love to have you come out 00:41:24.909 --> 00:41:27.309 and we'd certainly love to have you sponsor. 00:41:27.630 --> 00:41:29.869 And I want to thank everybody for listening to 00:41:29.869 --> 00:41:33.349 Veterans Radio today. I am Jim Fossone. It's 00:41:33.349 --> 00:41:35.429 been a pleasure to be your host. I'm a Veterans 00:41:35.429 --> 00:41:38.150 disability lawyer at Legal Help for Veterans 00:41:38.150 --> 00:41:45.269 and you can reach us at 800 -693 -4800 or legalhelpforveterans 00:41:45.269 --> 00:41:48.480 .com on the web. You can follow Veterans Radio 00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:51.780 on Facebook and listen to its podcasts and internet 00:41:51.780 --> 00:41:56.380 radio shows by visiting us at veteransradio .org. 00:41:56.519 --> 00:41:59.900 That's veteransradio .org. We would again want 00:41:59.900 --> 00:42:02.880 to thank our national sponsors, the National 00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:06.840 Veterans Business Development Council, nvbdc 00:42:06.840 --> 00:42:11.900 .org. Legal Help for Veterans, a veterans disability 00:42:11.900 --> 00:42:15.920 law firm with a national practice before The 00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:19.599 VA can help you on your claims and your appeals. 00:42:20.719 --> 00:42:23.900 It can be reached at legalhelpforveterans .com 00:42:23.900 --> 00:42:31.360 or 1 -800 -693 -4800. And PuroClean, a leader 00:42:31.360 --> 00:42:35.539 in property emergency services. It's the paramedics 00:42:35.539 --> 00:42:39.320 of property damage, providing water damage remediation, 00:42:39.639 --> 00:42:42.860 flood water removal, fire and smoke damage remediation. 00:42:43.320 --> 00:42:47.400 mold and biohazard cleanups. You can reach them 00:42:47.400 --> 00:42:55.099 at puroclean .com or 800 -775 -7876. We also 00:42:55.099 --> 00:42:58.039 want to thank our local sponsors. This would 00:42:58.039 --> 00:43:03.860 include the Charles S. Kettles chapter of the 00:43:03.860 --> 00:43:07.139 Vietnam Veterans of America. That's chapter 310. 00:43:07.860 --> 00:43:12.179 VFW Graf O 'Hara Post 423, the American Legion. 00:43:12.510 --> 00:43:15.570 Erwin Preskin, Post 46 in Ann Arbor as well, 00:43:16.090 --> 00:43:19.110 the VA Ann Arbor Health Care System, and certainly 00:43:19.110 --> 00:43:22.250 the National Vietnam Veterans of America Association. 00:43:22.889 --> 00:43:25.530 You can be a sponsor by going to veteransradio 00:43:25.530 --> 00:43:29.949 .org, clicking on the About Us and our sponsors, 00:43:30.070 --> 00:43:33.230 and help us out. Keep this program alive for 00:43:33.230 --> 00:43:37.769 the 21 and 22 years. Keep us going for another 00:43:37.769 --> 00:43:38.969 20. Thank you.