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We post something new every week and 00:02:28.599 --> 00:02:32.960 you're going to find it informative. We want 00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:36.139 to welcome to Veterans Radio today Robert M. 00:02:36.259 --> 00:02:41.319 Edsel. He's a Award -winning author, number one 00:02:41.319 --> 00:02:43.759 New York Times bestseller, he wrote The Monuments 00:02:43.759 --> 00:02:48.000 Men with Brett Witter. Remember Us is the book 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:50.599 we're gonna talk about, American sacrifice, Dutch 00:02:50.599 --> 00:02:53.680 freedom, and a forever promise forged in World 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:57.699 War II. Robert, welcome to Veterans Radio. Thank 00:02:57.699 --> 00:03:00.219 you very much, great to be back. This is a good 00:03:00.219 --> 00:03:02.520 read and I encourage others to go out and get 00:03:02.520 --> 00:03:05.840 it. We'll give you enough information in this 00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:08.699 podcast, you're gonna go, wow, I wanna know more, 00:03:08.840 --> 00:03:11.960 because there's so much to know about this. This 00:03:11.960 --> 00:03:16.300 is about the Netherlands, a specific region, 00:03:17.020 --> 00:03:20.039 and how the Dutch were treated by the Nazis during 00:03:20.039 --> 00:03:23.120 World War II, and then how they treated the Americans 00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:25.780 who came in to liberate them. But you do it in 00:03:25.780 --> 00:03:30.360 a method that I find very easy to read, sort 00:03:30.360 --> 00:03:33.800 of life stories about specific individuals who 00:03:33.800 --> 00:03:36.599 passed through here. This was a lot of work. 00:03:36.939 --> 00:03:40.360 How did you stumble on this idea and did you 00:03:40.360 --> 00:03:43.639 ever think it would take this long? Well, when 00:03:43.639 --> 00:03:48.439 I first became aware of it, it was actually just 00:03:48.439 --> 00:03:52.919 a person I wanted to go talk to. One of the Monuments 00:03:52.919 --> 00:03:57.419 Men's nephews whose uncle was killed in combat. 00:03:57.539 --> 00:03:59.620 He was the one American Monuments Officer killed 00:03:59.620 --> 00:04:02.930 just a month before the war was over. accepted 00:04:02.930 --> 00:04:05.090 an invitation to the Congressional Gold Medal 00:04:05.090 --> 00:04:08.870 awarding, honoring all of the monuments, men 00:04:08.870 --> 00:04:12.110 and women. And he RSVP'd yes and sent me a photograph 00:04:12.110 --> 00:04:14.469 and said, I just got back from England and I 00:04:14.469 --> 00:04:16.889 had a wonderful meeting with Frida. And he enclosed 00:04:16.889 --> 00:04:19.230 this photo of this woman with this crown of white 00:04:19.230 --> 00:04:21.889 hair. And he knew I knew her and I couldn't place 00:04:21.889 --> 00:04:23.850 her. I had no idea who it was for three or four 00:04:23.850 --> 00:04:25.610 days. And finally, I remembered the only Frida 00:04:25.610 --> 00:04:28.550 I've ever heard of is this 19 year old girl. 00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:31.879 that lived outside Maastricht who wrote Harvard 00:04:31.879 --> 00:04:35.680 a letter in September 1945 asking for the name 00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:38.600 and address of Walter Hutchhouse and the Monuments 00:04:38.600 --> 00:04:40.540 Officer who was killed, asking for the name and 00:04:40.540 --> 00:04:43.240 address of his mother because she wanted her 00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:46.319 to know that she walked five miles to the cemetery 00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:48.399 most days of the week to place flowers on his 00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:52.420 grave. And it never occurred to me, I made reference 00:04:52.420 --> 00:04:54.639 to that in the Monuments Men, but it never occurred 00:04:54.639 --> 00:04:58.170 to me she was still alive. So she was. This is 00:04:58.170 --> 00:05:00.990 2015 when I found this out and I said to my wife 00:05:00.990 --> 00:05:03.310 You know, I want to make sure we go to London 00:05:03.310 --> 00:05:05.470 a few months from now when we're headed to Europe 00:05:05.470 --> 00:05:07.709 I'd like to meet this lady and my wife said do 00:05:07.709 --> 00:05:09.769 you have ambitions here? And I said ambitions 00:05:09.769 --> 00:05:12.569 like what and she said well like writing a book 00:05:12.569 --> 00:05:16.129 and I said no She knows she knows you too. Well, 00:05:16.170 --> 00:05:18.069 you were on the scent of something even if you 00:05:18.069 --> 00:05:21.069 didn't know it Well, and I really didn't and 00:05:21.069 --> 00:05:23.910 I just felt like she was probably the last person 00:05:24.120 --> 00:05:27.220 to see how Chousen before he was killed and I 00:05:27.220 --> 00:05:29.939 felt duty bound to talk to her. So four or five 00:05:29.939 --> 00:05:31.839 months later I was there and she starts pulling 00:05:31.839 --> 00:05:35.959 out these photographs of when the Germans invaded 00:05:35.959 --> 00:05:41.019 in May 40 and then in September 44 when the Americans 00:05:41.019 --> 00:05:43.360 liberated them and here comes this first tank 00:05:43.360 --> 00:05:46.579 over the hill. And she said to me, do you know 00:05:46.579 --> 00:05:49.519 about the Netherlands, about the American military 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:51.439 cemetery in Margaret? And I said, you mean the 00:05:51.439 --> 00:05:52.879 Netherlands, American cemetery, because that's 00:05:52.879 --> 00:05:54.959 what we call it today. And she said, yes. And 00:05:54.959 --> 00:05:56.480 I said, oh, I'm aware of it. And she said, have 00:05:56.480 --> 00:05:58.139 you been there? And I said, yes, I've been there. 00:05:58.420 --> 00:06:00.259 So you know about the grave adoption program. 00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:02.639 And I said, the what? And she said, the grave 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:05.519 adoption program. And I knew nothing about it. 00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:08.379 And I couldn't believe I didn't. And that is 00:06:08.379 --> 00:06:11.259 what set the chart of the course for the next 00:06:11.259 --> 00:06:12.959 eight years. That's how long we've been working 00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:16.459 on this. Well, I think let's go ahead and explain 00:06:16.459 --> 00:06:20.079 what that program is right up front because my 00:06:20.079 --> 00:06:24.560 guess is most Americans, most veterans, even 00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:28.339 World War II survivors and their families don't 00:06:28.339 --> 00:06:33.660 realize what is going on in these American cemeteries 00:06:33.660 --> 00:06:38.000 that are over in Europe. where our young boys 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:42.420 and men died in World War II? Good question. 00:06:43.019 --> 00:06:46.939 So there are 12 permanent World War II cemeteries 00:06:46.939 --> 00:06:48.779 that are run by the American Battle Monuments 00:06:48.779 --> 00:06:51.399 Commission in Europe and North Africa and in 00:06:51.399 --> 00:06:53.879 the Pacific. And they're of course beautifully 00:06:53.879 --> 00:06:57.459 kept. The there is one in the Netherlands called 00:06:57.459 --> 00:06:59.500 the Netherlands American Cemetery and it's near 00:06:59.500 --> 00:07:02.120 the town of Margraten Which is only 15 miles 00:07:02.120 --> 00:07:04.060 from the German border from the town of Aachen 00:07:04.060 --> 00:07:06.259 Which is where World War two in Western Europe 00:07:06.259 --> 00:07:08.319 started because the German tanks rolled across 00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:10.899 the border there so the Dutch were neutral during 00:07:10.899 --> 00:07:13.879 World War one and Had declared neutrality in 00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:15.860 World War two which Hitler observed until he 00:07:15.860 --> 00:07:18.800 didn't and they were stunned to lose their freedom 00:07:19.259 --> 00:07:21.439 They hadn't had to happen in a hundred years. 00:07:21.620 --> 00:07:23.420 They didn't have a resistance network. They didn't 00:07:23.420 --> 00:07:26.699 have a black market. They were disoriented. And 00:07:26.699 --> 00:07:30.300 when the Americans liberated this portion of 00:07:30.300 --> 00:07:32.920 the Netherlands, this is the very Southeast portion 00:07:32.920 --> 00:07:37.000 of the country. They were so immensely beholding 00:07:37.000 --> 00:07:41.579 and they general Simpson's ninth army was stuck 00:07:41.579 --> 00:07:45.399 in this area because It became clear with the 00:07:45.399 --> 00:07:47.620 failure of market garden and the house to house 00:07:47.620 --> 00:07:50.139 fighting in Aachen that getting to Berlin by 00:07:50.139 --> 00:07:53.160 December 44 wasn't going to be possible. So they 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:56.660 Eisenhower decided to wait out the winter resupply 00:07:56.660 --> 00:08:00.500 troops, fuel, et cetera. And the local people 00:08:00.500 --> 00:08:02.959 asked these boys to stay in their homes, to stay 00:08:02.959 --> 00:08:06.449 in their barns. They were. everywhere and they 00:08:06.449 --> 00:08:08.870 enjoyed getting to know them. And when the war 00:08:08.870 --> 00:08:11.670 was over, a lot of them didn't come back. And 00:08:11.670 --> 00:08:13.829 the Dutch families were grieving for them like 00:08:13.829 --> 00:08:16.629 American families were. At the end of World War 00:08:16.629 --> 00:08:21.009 Two, there were 17 ,800 boys and a few women 00:08:21.009 --> 00:08:23.509 buried at the cemetery. It was our largest World 00:08:23.509 --> 00:08:26.350 War Two cemetery in Europe at the end of the 00:08:26.350 --> 00:08:31.370 war. And as early as January 45, so still four 00:08:31.370 --> 00:08:34.009 and a half months before the war's over, The 00:08:34.009 --> 00:08:36.269 people in the town of Margrotton were trying 00:08:36.269 --> 00:08:39.070 to find an answer to the question, how do you 00:08:39.070 --> 00:08:41.929 thank your liberator when they're no longer alive 00:08:41.929 --> 00:08:44.620 to thank? And they came up with several different 00:08:44.620 --> 00:08:47.980 ideas, special masses and parades, and finally 00:08:47.980 --> 00:08:51.860 settled on this idea of asking one local person 00:08:51.860 --> 00:08:55.360 to volunteer to be an adopter to watch over the 00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:58.440 grave of one American soldier. And that meant 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:00.759 going out to the cemetery on Memorial Day, Veterans 00:09:00.759 --> 00:09:04.279 Day, birth and death day. And if they had the 00:09:04.279 --> 00:09:07.360 names and addresses of next of kin, writing them 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:11.049 and sending them a photograph of the grave. And 00:09:11.049 --> 00:09:13.389 that's how the program started. By the first 00:09:13.389 --> 00:09:17.190 Memorial Day in May 45, 80 years ago, they had 00:09:17.190 --> 00:09:22.429 about 300 of the 17 ,000 graves adopted. By May 00:09:22.429 --> 00:09:28.490 46, a year later, all 17 ,800 graves were adopted. 00:09:29.549 --> 00:09:34.830 And to this day, there are today 10 ,000. boys 00:09:34.830 --> 00:09:36.990 and four women that are buried there because 00:09:36.990 --> 00:09:40.350 about 8 ,000 were brought back so a higher percentage 00:09:40.350 --> 00:09:43.289 retained there than at other cemeteries and they 00:09:43.289 --> 00:09:47.330 have been at 100 adoption for 80 years they have 00:09:47.330 --> 00:09:49.830 a thousand people on the waiting list to be adopters 00:09:49.830 --> 00:09:52.309 even though the turnover is only about 30 per 00:09:52.309 --> 00:09:55.440 year but they only have the names and addresses 00:09:55.440 --> 00:09:58.779 of about 20 % of the American next of kin because 00:09:58.779 --> 00:10:01.580 the army and government refused to provide it. 00:10:01.580 --> 00:10:04.139 And that's, you know, another element and purpose 00:10:04.139 --> 00:10:06.480 of the book, but that's, that's the adoption 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:08.639 program in a nutshell. And there is nothing like 00:10:08.639 --> 00:10:12.039 it anywhere else. There are some adoptions that 00:10:12.039 --> 00:10:14.700 occur at some of the other cemeteries, but no 00:10:14.700 --> 00:10:18.740 one started an adoption program during the war 00:10:18.740 --> 00:10:21.879 that has been sustained for 80 continuous years. 00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:25.379 at 100%. It's unique by anything we can find 00:10:25.379 --> 00:10:28.480 anywhere. And you write, and this was really 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:33.039 powerful, that the Dutch adoptees view this not 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:38.440 as a duty, but an honor. And it really is a way 00:10:38.440 --> 00:10:43.679 for the Dutch population to thank those who gave 00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:47.039 up their lives. I mean, you, in the book, talk 00:10:47.039 --> 00:10:50.159 to various people who lived through this. It 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:55.659 really was viewed as an honor, not a duty. Absolutely 00:10:55.659 --> 00:10:58.440 correct. I'm told by a couple of my friends in 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:00.840 Netherlands that when a divorce happens over 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:03.259 there, it's one of the more hotly contested assets 00:11:03.259 --> 00:11:06.340 of the family because both husband and wife want 00:11:06.340 --> 00:11:09.379 to continue to be the adopter. So, you know, 00:11:09.399 --> 00:11:13.529 in so many ways the Dutch have become more American 00:11:13.529 --> 00:11:16.929 than many Americans in the sense that they know 00:11:16.929 --> 00:11:19.809 what Memorial Day is for. And it's not a three 00:11:19.809 --> 00:11:21.830 day weekend to go to the baseball park and eat 00:11:21.830 --> 00:11:24.610 hot dogs. I mean, that's certainly part of it. 00:11:24.870 --> 00:11:27.429 By all means, the freedom has paid for that. 00:11:27.470 --> 00:11:29.370 The freedom is paid to not know what Memorial 00:11:29.370 --> 00:11:33.570 Day is for. But I feel like all of us who are 00:11:33.570 --> 00:11:36.629 born in the United States, who have not served 00:11:36.629 --> 00:11:39.629 in the military, our lottery ticket winners. 00:11:39.950 --> 00:11:42.330 My dad was in, he was a Marine during World War 00:11:42.330 --> 00:11:45.529 II in Saipan, Okinawa, Nagasaki. So he grew up 00:11:45.529 --> 00:11:47.450 in the Dust Bowl of Oklahoma. So he paid his 00:11:47.450 --> 00:11:50.230 dues. I haven't. I mean, I never was drafted 00:11:50.230 --> 00:11:53.389 and selective service stopped before I had a 00:11:53.389 --> 00:11:57.049 chance. But this is my way of doing something 00:11:57.049 --> 00:11:59.470 I think that's meritorious to help the country 00:11:59.470 --> 00:12:02.710 and trying to remind Americans or inform them 00:12:02.710 --> 00:12:07.039 that Memorial Day isn't just the day to recognize 00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:09.320 men and women who've in service who've lost their 00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:12.659 lives to the benefit of the country, but also 00:12:12.659 --> 00:12:14.980 to celebrate what those lives paid for, which 00:12:14.980 --> 00:12:18.220 is our freedom. And it's not free. And what I've 00:12:18.220 --> 00:12:21.360 done and remember us is follow the lives of 12 00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:27.039 men from 101st Airborne, 82nd Airborne, a chaplain. 00:12:27.240 --> 00:12:32.539 Black Grave Digger, the Black Tanker with 784th, 00:12:32.539 --> 00:12:35.700 some of everything so that people can follow 00:12:35.700 --> 00:12:39.139 and understand just how horrific war truly is. 00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:42.000 We're not sugarcoating it. And then we go into 00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:45.720 the families homes in the United States and describe 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:48.399 what it was like for those families dealing with 00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:50.480 this. And not everyone in my book dies. Some 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:53.639 do, some don't. But their lives all kind of converge 00:12:53.639 --> 00:12:57.039 around. where the cemetery is and for different 00:12:57.039 --> 00:13:00.620 reasons. And then there is this transcendent 00:13:00.620 --> 00:13:03.240 moment of the book, really the last third or 00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:07.080 so that describes where war typically ends and 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:10.059 we come home and we all move on. It describes 00:13:10.059 --> 00:13:12.879 what the Dutch have done to make sure that these 00:13:12.879 --> 00:13:15.980 men and women's lives are never forgotten. and 00:13:15.980 --> 00:13:18.580 they drill it into their children and their grandchildren 00:13:18.580 --> 00:13:21.940 every day. And this cemetery is filled with life 00:13:21.940 --> 00:13:24.779 for anyone that visits there. It's an amazing, 00:13:24.860 --> 00:13:28.519 amazing place. Because this is swirling around, 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:31.200 this is a story inside a bigger story of World 00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:40.980 War II. It swirls around different battles. dropping 00:13:40.980 --> 00:13:43.139 paratroopers in from the air and men who get 00:13:43.139 --> 00:13:46.179 caught and have to be rescued by, either get 00:13:46.179 --> 00:13:49.360 shot or get rescued by the Dutch resistance. 00:13:49.759 --> 00:13:53.059 I mean, there's a lot packed into here. One of 00:13:53.059 --> 00:13:56.000 the things I didn't think about until I read 00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:59.620 this is, and I'm just gonna use the initials, 00:13:59.940 --> 00:14:04.710 GRS. Explain that to us. Well, I'm glad you asked 00:14:04.710 --> 00:14:07.710 about that. GRS is an acronym for Grave Registration 00:14:07.710 --> 00:14:11.870 Service and the Grave Registration Service officers 00:14:11.870 --> 00:14:16.710 can be bookkeepers, they can be morticians, and 00:14:16.710 --> 00:14:20.870 then there is a, then there are, they're charged, 00:14:22.049 --> 00:14:23.570 well I'll come to that in a second, and then 00:14:23.570 --> 00:14:26.429 of course there are quartermaster troops that 00:14:26.429 --> 00:14:29.970 dig the graves, and in the Netherlands, That 00:14:29.970 --> 00:14:32.370 job befell black Americans. We were more comfortable 00:14:32.370 --> 00:14:36.210 handing a shovel to than a gun. So I ask people 00:14:36.210 --> 00:14:38.490 because this is the question that I had. What 00:14:38.490 --> 00:14:40.370 happens to a soldier when he's killed on the 00:14:40.370 --> 00:14:43.169 field of battle? I mean, we think about movies 00:14:43.169 --> 00:14:47.029 or books. So someone's killed. That's horrible. 00:14:47.590 --> 00:14:50.629 And then you go to the next scene. We don't know. 00:14:50.889 --> 00:14:53.429 I mean, we never described this and it's gruesome 00:14:53.429 --> 00:14:57.590 and it's horrible. And And it's costly. And I 00:14:57.590 --> 00:14:59.830 want, you know, we described this. I mean, it's 00:14:59.830 --> 00:15:02.830 a it's the car wreck element of the story that 00:15:02.830 --> 00:15:06.450 everyone should know to realize war and loss 00:15:06.450 --> 00:15:09.289 of life is not a Game Boy. It's not a Nintendo 00:15:09.289 --> 00:15:13.750 game or a Marvel, you know, blow up movie. It's 00:15:13.750 --> 00:15:15.750 a very, very serious matter. And it's painful 00:15:15.750 --> 00:15:18.149 to know about. But you need to know about it 00:15:18.149 --> 00:15:20.450 if you're going to learn that freedom isn't free. 00:15:20.450 --> 00:15:23.129 And if you're going to understand the remarkable 00:15:23.129 --> 00:15:26.159 things and the humane things that the Dutch did 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:29.019 to try and honor these boys. So someone's killed. 00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:31.500 General Simpson promised his boys no one would 00:15:31.500 --> 00:15:34.019 be buried on enemy soil. They were loaded onto 00:15:34.019 --> 00:15:36.799 trucks. They were driven to Margaret back across 00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:39.100 the border right up until the end of the war 00:15:39.100 --> 00:15:41.340 when it just became impossible to do that. They 00:15:41.340 --> 00:15:45.960 were laid out. The word like a cord of wood or 00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:49.080 that phrase is used often where the bodies are 00:15:49.080 --> 00:15:51.899 stacked. They're brought in on trucks, the bodies 00:15:51.899 --> 00:15:54.779 and the body parts. They're laid out. They're 00:15:54.779 --> 00:15:57.639 taken into what's called a stripping line. It's 00:15:57.639 --> 00:16:00.399 dangerous work because live ammunition is a concern. 00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:02.679 In some cases, soldier may have a pin pulled 00:16:02.679 --> 00:16:05.679 on a grenade and his hands rigor mortis or it's 00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:08.299 frozen. So they have to remove all the ammunition. 00:16:09.040 --> 00:16:12.120 The through the stripping line, they remove all 00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:14.440 personal identification objects. They inventory 00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:17.700 everything. They do an autopsy of the body or 00:16:17.700 --> 00:16:21.080 what's left of it. One of the dog tags is placed 00:16:21.080 --> 00:16:24.799 in the mouth. If there is a head, the other dog 00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:27.100 tag is nailed to the cross to make sure there's 00:16:27.100 --> 00:16:30.120 no chance for misidentification. The bodies are 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:32.080 carried out and laid outside on the other end 00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:35.220 of the stripping line. The black quartermaster 00:16:35.220 --> 00:16:39.139 troops then. have to lift up the bodies. It's 00:16:39.139 --> 00:16:42.960 a very tactile job because there's no wood, there's 00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:46.440 no coffins. Everyone's buried in bed sacks. So 00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:48.500 they have to lift up the body or the parts and 00:16:48.500 --> 00:16:50.559 lower them into the bed sacks. And then they 00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:52.340 take them out and they're digging these graves 00:16:52.340 --> 00:16:55.519 in horrible conditions, raining all the time, 00:16:56.360 --> 00:16:59.700 always cold, sometimes frozen ground. And some 00:16:59.700 --> 00:17:01.919 days they were lucky to dig a single grave in 00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:04.980 a day. and they're trying to keep up with what's 00:17:04.980 --> 00:17:07.500 happening in the war. And to the Dutch's credit, 00:17:08.380 --> 00:17:11.640 when in March 1945, the battlefield casualties 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:14.180 were so great and the quartermaster troops couldn't 00:17:14.180 --> 00:17:17.200 keep up with it, the call went out for local 00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:20.019 volunteers and the townspeople of Margretten 00:17:20.019 --> 00:17:22.099 went to their tool sheds and got their shovels 00:17:22.099 --> 00:17:24.119 and went out there and helped dig those graves 00:17:24.119 --> 00:17:27.460 also. Yeah, as I said, this is a piece of a story 00:17:27.460 --> 00:17:30.059 that nobody ever tells, so I thank you for telling 00:17:30.059 --> 00:17:33.619 it. It was very informative. Yeah, it's gruesome 00:17:33.619 --> 00:17:36.259 at times, but it makes you face the realities 00:17:36.259 --> 00:17:39.220 of war. One of the other things that you write 00:17:39.220 --> 00:17:43.579 about through a lot of the stories here, in kind 00:17:43.579 --> 00:17:46.759 of a war -torn life, and we'd expect, you know, 00:17:47.539 --> 00:17:51.400 and certainly you write about diseases and malnutrition, 00:17:51.880 --> 00:17:53.519 but one of the things that struck me was the 00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:57.470 role of religion, both for the Dutch, residents 00:17:57.470 --> 00:18:00.930 of Margadon, as well as some of the American 00:18:00.930 --> 00:18:02.789 troops, because one of the ones you write on 00:18:02.789 --> 00:18:06.990 is a chaplain, Pat Foulkes I think it is. Talk 00:18:06.990 --> 00:18:09.829 to us a little bit about what struck you about 00:18:09.829 --> 00:18:12.849 sort of the role of religion in World War II 00:18:12.849 --> 00:18:18.009 in the Netherlands at this time. Well that's 00:18:18.009 --> 00:18:20.109 a powerful question and I compliment you for 00:18:20.109 --> 00:18:26.559 asking it. I think that 20 year olds don't have 00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:29.599 an understanding of their mortality for the most 00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:31.740 part because they're fortunate and at that life 00:18:31.740 --> 00:18:35.220 cycle they haven't lost parents necessarily or 00:18:35.220 --> 00:18:37.259 friends. I mean those are little time ticking 00:18:37.259 --> 00:18:39.960 time bombs that impact all of us at different 00:18:39.960 --> 00:18:42.839 stages of our life. But of course if you're a 00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:47.619 combat soldier it's all around you and you're 00:18:47.619 --> 00:18:50.940 cut off from your family. The only lifeline is 00:18:50.940 --> 00:18:55.480 is our letters and there's no phone calls, there's 00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:59.559 no modern -day electronics, etc. And you're in 00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:03.140 that foxhole, and the only friends you've got 00:19:03.140 --> 00:19:06.640 in the world are those guys dug in next to you. 00:19:08.319 --> 00:19:11.880 You know, the old adage about there's no atheist 00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:15.480 in a foxhole. And I think that everybody's trying 00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:19.220 to find ways to feel some sense of encouragement, 00:19:19.619 --> 00:19:22.880 some sense of hope. I just don't think we as 00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:25.519 human beings fully appreciate how important hope 00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:28.839 is throughout lives and I've spent so much of 00:19:28.839 --> 00:19:31.920 my life interviewing elderly people and a lot 00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:35.019 of time with the Monuments Men 21 that I knew 00:19:35.019 --> 00:19:37.759 and then so many of their family members and 00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:39.859 I could see what happened to them when they were 00:19:39.859 --> 00:19:43.480 late in life. They felt bad. They'd lost family 00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:46.440 members including children. They'd lost a lot 00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:51.869 of their friends and And then here people were 00:19:51.869 --> 00:19:53.849 interested in them because of the of the book 00:19:53.849 --> 00:19:55.950 or the movie. People wanted to talk to them. 00:19:55.950 --> 00:19:58.890 They didn't get looked at like old people. And 00:19:58.890 --> 00:20:01.230 and that hope was everything. It kept them going 00:20:01.230 --> 00:20:04.529 and it gave them a pep to their step. So, you 00:20:04.529 --> 00:20:06.150 know, for these 20 year olds, I think religion 00:20:06.150 --> 00:20:10.210 was a hugely important matter because it was 00:20:10.210 --> 00:20:14.150 something to believe in and hope for, whether 00:20:14.150 --> 00:20:16.930 they were 100 percent in or not. It was there 00:20:16.930 --> 00:20:18.710 just were so few options. And where the Dutch 00:20:18.710 --> 00:20:22.609 were concerned, our key figure in the book, this 00:20:22.609 --> 00:20:25.170 remarkable woman, Emily Michals van Kestink, 00:20:25.269 --> 00:20:27.769 who was the wife of the mayor of Maastricht, 00:20:28.049 --> 00:20:33.670 mother of 12. She was extremely Catholic and 00:20:33.670 --> 00:20:39.670 very, very much a person of faith. And she always 00:20:39.670 --> 00:20:45.339 felt like that. that belief was well -founded 00:20:45.339 --> 00:20:47.539 and she was constantly trying to encourage people. 00:20:48.019 --> 00:20:50.519 Our young lady in the book, Frieda, who I knew 00:20:50.519 --> 00:20:54.220 the last eight years of her life, she would tell 00:20:54.220 --> 00:20:58.259 the American boys who were so fearful and scared 00:20:58.259 --> 00:21:01.440 in between battles that would come by her house, 00:21:01.740 --> 00:21:03.660 she could talk to them because she was the same 00:21:03.660 --> 00:21:06.359 age they were. And she would try and encourage 00:21:06.359 --> 00:21:09.279 them and buck them up and tell them, you know, 00:21:09.400 --> 00:21:14.200 if you accept Christ is your savior. If you if 00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:17.859 you believe these things will all work out. And 00:21:17.859 --> 00:21:20.819 she told me how much how good she felt seeing 00:21:20.819 --> 00:21:23.500 the boys drive off on the truck knowing that 00:21:23.500 --> 00:21:25.900 they were scared to death, of course, but they 00:21:25.900 --> 00:21:28.359 had a little bit of sense of relief and a smile 00:21:28.359 --> 00:21:30.640 on their face. So I think it's usually important. 00:21:31.180 --> 00:21:34.980 Well, it certainly rings through this interaction 00:21:34.980 --> 00:21:38.039 between the. the Dutch and particularly the Dutch 00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:41.819 women here and the men as they are marching off 00:21:41.819 --> 00:21:45.579 maybe to their deaths. I want to talk a little 00:21:45.579 --> 00:21:47.599 bit about, and I'll let you pick who you want 00:21:47.599 --> 00:21:51.240 to talk about, one or two of the people who are 00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:53.500 the major characters here. There's like a dozen 00:21:53.500 --> 00:21:57.769 of them. You know, and you mentioned you've got 00:21:57.769 --> 00:22:01.250 African Americans, you've got Jews, you've got 00:22:01.250 --> 00:22:05.670 Native American. A Native American and Jacob 00:22:05.670 --> 00:22:10.730 Herman, a Chaplain. These are really interesting 00:22:10.730 --> 00:22:14.849 characters and their life is well shared in the 00:22:14.849 --> 00:22:17.509 pages here. Pick one that you want to highlight. 00:22:19.840 --> 00:22:22.559 Well, I'll speak less about one so I can tell 00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:24.759 you two so we can have kind of an alpha and omega 00:22:24.759 --> 00:22:28.799 so you have combat veteran Robert Cole lieutenant 00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:31.940 colonel Robert Cole who trained years earlier 00:22:31.940 --> 00:22:35.900 with a lieutenant colonel Dwight Eisenhower at 00:22:35.900 --> 00:22:41.430 Fort Lewis and Cole was Ike's kind of guy a take 00:22:41.430 --> 00:22:45.069 charge lead from the front person that got stuff 00:22:45.069 --> 00:22:48.109 done and Here they would end up seeing each other 00:22:48.109 --> 00:22:52.230 again on June 5th on the tarmac in the UK hours 00:22:52.230 --> 00:22:55.470 before Cole and his stick would jump out of an 00:22:55.470 --> 00:22:59.289 airplane over Normandy on June late at night 00:22:59.289 --> 00:23:02.430 June 5th leading to June 6 and Cole received 00:23:02.430 --> 00:23:07.619 a Medal of Honor for his heroic I'm almost crazy 00:23:07.619 --> 00:23:12.339 heroic performance at Carrington and near there 00:23:12.339 --> 00:23:16.019 off the beaches. And then he was involved in 00:23:16.019 --> 00:23:19.259 the drop on Market Garden. So he's a fascinating 00:23:19.259 --> 00:23:21.720 figure and is really kind of a larger than life 00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:24.519 Hollywood casting character. And then contrast 00:23:24.519 --> 00:23:27.920 that with Jacob Herman, who we mentioned, a Native 00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:31.700 American Lakota from South Dakota, whose family 00:23:31.700 --> 00:23:34.599 had been relocated three times, going back to 00:23:34.599 --> 00:23:37.680 wounded knee in 1890s and then two other times 00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:41.140 in the 1940s. And shortly before he volunteered 00:23:41.140 --> 00:23:43.750 because the army wanted to use the what was their 00:23:43.750 --> 00:23:47.809 reservation as a artillery practice. And his 00:23:47.809 --> 00:23:50.869 mother pleaded with him, don't do this, don't 00:23:50.869 --> 00:23:54.470 volunteer. All this country's ever done is stuff 00:23:54.470 --> 00:23:58.710 to us, not for us. But Jacob Herman, like other 00:23:58.710 --> 00:24:02.369 Lakota, had a creed. And when the country was 00:24:02.369 --> 00:24:05.890 attacked by Japan, then it was their responsibility 00:24:05.890 --> 00:24:09.200 to defend the land. And he wanted to join and 00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:11.680 he joined and became a paratrooper with the 82nd 00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:14.380 Airborne. So I just wanted people to remember 00:24:14.380 --> 00:24:18.000 we were a country of immigrants and a diverse 00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:20.380 country. We are a country of immigrants in a 00:24:20.380 --> 00:24:23.000 diverse country. I think we always will be. That 00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:25.619 has always been a strength of the country. And 00:24:25.619 --> 00:24:28.940 here you have two completely different. life, 00:24:28.940 --> 00:24:31.859 it's life histories to get to this point. And 00:24:31.859 --> 00:24:34.200 yet both these guys are serving, they're both 00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:36.059 doing the best that they can do with the assignments 00:24:36.059 --> 00:24:38.279 they've got. And I think people are going to 00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:42.339 be very wedded to these characters and our two 00:24:42.339 --> 00:24:45.619 twins who are both co pilots piloting the same 00:24:45.619 --> 00:24:48.099 plane, which is insane, but it was allowed to 00:24:48.099 --> 00:24:51.000 happen in 43. And you mentioned our chaplain, 00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:54.039 who's another heroic guy that just can't get 00:24:54.039 --> 00:24:57.420 close enough to the front and finally succeeds. 00:24:57.420 --> 00:25:00.380 in becoming a paratrooper in the 17th Airborne 00:25:00.380 --> 00:25:04.299 Division for the drop in varsity in March 45. 00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:08.119 So this book, as I say, is sort of a story inside 00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:11.480 a story of World War II, and it touches on all 00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:14.420 kinds of things folks are gonna be familiar with 00:25:14.420 --> 00:25:16.240 while they're learning about the things they're 00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:18.910 not familiar with. Certainly there's a touch 00:25:18.910 --> 00:25:21.910 of the Monuments Men. Richie Boys are touched 00:25:21.910 --> 00:25:26.089 on in here. I found the discussion on the caves 00:25:26.089 --> 00:25:29.430 and the murals in this section of the Netherlands 00:25:29.430 --> 00:25:32.950 very interesting. But before we run out of time, 00:25:32.970 --> 00:25:35.829 I want to do two things. If you pick up this 00:25:35.829 --> 00:25:38.049 book, which I encourage you to do, it's called 00:25:38.049 --> 00:25:42.769 Remember Us. It is on the Harper Horizon imprint. 00:25:43.990 --> 00:25:46.940 Make sure you read the epilogue. Don't stop when 00:25:46.940 --> 00:25:50.240 the book stops, keep reading. This may be the 00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:53.839 best epilogue I've ever read and Robert really 00:25:53.839 --> 00:25:57.279 kind of helped close out some open issues about 00:25:57.279 --> 00:26:00.539 80 years later, where are things? And in that 00:26:00.539 --> 00:26:04.819 regards, I want you to talk about the Forever 00:26:04.819 --> 00:26:09.660 Promise Project. The Forever Promise Project 00:26:09.660 --> 00:26:14.480 is reflective of my commitment. This is why I 00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:17.299 write the books that I've written. It's not to 00:26:17.299 --> 00:26:19.160 write books. It's not my favorite thing to do. 00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:21.779 My favorite thing is to tell some great stories 00:26:21.779 --> 00:26:23.640 and to try and change the world and make it a 00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:25.980 little bit better. We've done some amazing things 00:26:25.980 --> 00:26:28.079 through the Monuments Men and Women Foundation 00:26:28.079 --> 00:26:31.299 to make everyone aware of what the United States 00:26:31.299 --> 00:26:34.059 did during World War II to preserve cultural 00:26:34.059 --> 00:26:36.819 heritage. We set the standard for it. We made 00:26:36.819 --> 00:26:39.650 sure these men and women were honored. We have 00:26:39.650 --> 00:26:42.009 gotten the army to reconstitute Monuments officers 00:26:42.009 --> 00:26:44.450 through the Army Monuments Officer Training Program, 00:26:44.609 --> 00:26:47.490 AMOT. So a lot of amazing things. And that was 00:26:47.490 --> 00:26:49.730 the intent of writing the book was to get a film 00:26:49.730 --> 00:26:52.549 made so that we could start changing this part 00:26:52.549 --> 00:26:55.230 of the world. I mean, small increments, but at 00:26:55.230 --> 00:26:59.210 least I'm paying my share of dues for the lottery 00:26:59.210 --> 00:27:01.349 ticket of having born in the United States. So 00:27:01.349 --> 00:27:04.450 what's the purpose with with Remember Us? The 00:27:04.450 --> 00:27:08.329 answer is the Dutch have all 10 ,000 adopters. 00:27:08.519 --> 00:27:12.180 for all 10 ,000 men and the four women that are 00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:15.539 buried there, 8 ,300 people buried and 1 ,700 00:27:15.539 --> 00:27:18.319 names on walls of the missing. But they only 00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:20.740 have 20 % of the name and addresses of the American 00:27:20.740 --> 00:27:23.680 next of kin. And they want to talk, they want 00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:26.119 to be in touch with the other 8 ,000 Americans. 00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:28.500 that they're watching over that they don't have 00:27:28.500 --> 00:27:31.160 family connections for. In some cases, these 00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:33.619 families have photographs or unfinished letters 00:27:33.619 --> 00:27:36.539 that the family members have never seen, but 00:27:36.539 --> 00:27:39.539 they don't have anyone to send it to. So the 00:27:39.539 --> 00:27:41.460 Monuments Men and Women Foundations entered into 00:27:41.460 --> 00:27:43.559 a joint venture with the Dutch Foundation for 00:27:43.559 --> 00:27:46.180 Adopting Graves. And we're calling it the Forever 00:27:46.180 --> 00:27:48.559 Promise Project because when the government refused 00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:51.710 to provide this information, Our mother of 12, 00:27:51.930 --> 00:27:54.309 Emily, traveled to the United States and for 00:27:54.309 --> 00:27:56.529 five weeks lived with different family every 00:27:56.529 --> 00:27:59.150 night that had somebody buried overseas. She 00:27:59.150 --> 00:28:02.089 went to American Legion and BFW halls and talked 00:28:02.089 --> 00:28:04.869 to people and to everyone. She said, leave your 00:28:04.869 --> 00:28:07.089 boys with us. We'll watch over them like our 00:28:07.089 --> 00:28:10.890 own forever, a forever promise. And they have 00:28:10.890 --> 00:28:13.650 done that. So that's why we call it forever promise. 00:28:13.809 --> 00:28:17.490 If you go to the forever promise dot org website, 00:28:17.869 --> 00:28:21.650 We have a searchable database of all 10 ,000 00:28:21.650 --> 00:28:23.670 men and the four women that are buried in the 00:28:23.670 --> 00:28:26.849 Netherlands. And we're asking people to go there 00:28:26.849 --> 00:28:29.950 and see, do I have a relative that's there? And 00:28:29.950 --> 00:28:31.849 if so, there's a short questionnaire that pops 00:28:31.849 --> 00:28:34.150 up, and I mean really short. What's your connection 00:28:34.150 --> 00:28:36.690 to the person? Are you aware there's a grave 00:28:36.690 --> 00:28:39.369 adoption program? Are you in touch with your 00:28:39.369 --> 00:28:41.730 adopter? If you're not, would you like to be? 00:28:41.829 --> 00:28:44.009 Will you give us permission to share your contact 00:28:44.009 --> 00:28:46.769 information with our colleagues in the Netherlands 00:28:46.769 --> 00:28:49.990 so that we can, in a football sense, move the 00:28:49.990 --> 00:28:52.170 ball from the 20 -yard line on the other end 00:28:52.170 --> 00:28:54.170 of the field all the way down to the end zone 00:28:54.170 --> 00:28:57.109 on the opposite end and get in touch and match 00:28:57.109 --> 00:29:00.250 up all 10 ,000 adopters with as close to 100 00:29:00.250 --> 00:29:03.069 % as we can get with the 10 ,000 American family 00:29:03.069 --> 00:29:06.369 members. That's the objective. We should do it. 00:29:06.450 --> 00:29:09.059 It's the call to action. And I will talk about 00:29:09.059 --> 00:29:12.680 this till I'm put in a grave, but I can't, you 00:29:12.680 --> 00:29:14.579 know, I need the help of the American public 00:29:14.579 --> 00:29:17.380 to help us help the Dutch do what they've been 00:29:17.380 --> 00:29:20.599 doing for 80 years. No, that's what I say. You've 00:29:20.599 --> 00:29:22.220 got to read to the end. You got to get to this. 00:29:22.539 --> 00:29:26.059 This is really an important book that you've 00:29:26.059 --> 00:29:28.579 written here, Robert Hetzel with Brutt Witter. 00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:33.319 You've educated us on things we didn't know and 00:29:33.319 --> 00:29:37.420 reminded us of some of the costs associated with 00:29:37.420 --> 00:29:41.500 liberating Europe. And let's see if we can't 00:29:41.500 --> 00:29:45.539 get more folks to reach out. for the Forever 00:29:45.539 --> 00:29:48.019 Promise project and link up some more of those 00:29:48.019 --> 00:29:51.559 names and we certainly are appreciative of this 00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:54.039 book and what the Dutch are doing. I suspect 00:29:54.039 --> 00:29:57.460 this book will get translated into Dutch and 00:29:57.460 --> 00:30:01.680 you're going to be a hero and sought after as 00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:04.759 a speaker in the Netherlands. Well, we've already 00:30:04.759 --> 00:30:06.640 gotten it translated into Dutch because I wanted 00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:08.700 to make sure the elderly people there that don't 00:30:08.700 --> 00:30:11.180 speak English can read their own story and their 00:30:11.180 --> 00:30:15.509 own language. Perfect. closing comment more for 00:30:15.509 --> 00:30:17.230 all we've gotten done with Monuments Men and 00:30:17.230 --> 00:30:19.329 we've gotten done a lot nothing's more important 00:30:19.329 --> 00:30:21.410 than our freedom and that's what this books about 00:30:21.410 --> 00:30:23.369 and without our freedom none of the other stuff 00:30:23.369 --> 00:30:26.450 matters so this is you know this is where the 00:30:26.450 --> 00:30:28.970 where the the knife's edge is right now around 00:30:28.970 --> 00:30:31.769 the world is freedom and having that freedom 00:30:31.769 --> 00:30:34.990 and this is a as I said a call to action for 00:30:34.990 --> 00:30:38.450 everybody so go to forever promise org and help 00:30:38.450 --> 00:30:41.319 us out and by all means get the book because 00:30:41.319 --> 00:30:44.160 it'll help you understand how this situation 00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:47.720 evolved and this high point of humanity for what 00:30:47.720 --> 00:30:50.279 the Dutch have done and continue to do. Well, 00:30:50.279 --> 00:30:52.539 I want to thank you for taking time to talk to 00:30:52.539 --> 00:30:57.799 Veterans Radio today. Thank you very much. We 00:30:57.799 --> 00:31:00.539 want to give you a little advance notice. We're 00:31:00.539 --> 00:31:04.539 going to have a Veterans Radio event on Sunday, 00:31:04.539 --> 00:31:10.130 September 28, 2025. Radio on the River. We're 00:31:10.130 --> 00:31:13.269 doing a new location on Freedom River in Livingston 00:31:13.269 --> 00:31:16.430 County, Michigan. We want you to save the date. 00:31:16.490 --> 00:31:18.309 We're going to have veteran storytelling and 00:31:18.309 --> 00:31:21.390 guest speakers. We'll have raffle items, great 00:31:21.390 --> 00:31:25.650 local musicians and food. Also, uniquely, there's 00:31:25.650 --> 00:31:28.269 going to be an opportunity to fly in a UH -1 00:31:28.269 --> 00:31:32.049 Huey from the Michigan Flight Museum. And maybe 00:31:32.049 --> 00:31:35.859 you can also win a free ride that way. Plan on 00:31:35.859 --> 00:31:39.380 supporting Veterans Radio either by buying tickets 00:31:39.380 --> 00:31:43.440 or sponsoring Radio on the River. Contact us 00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:48.859 at dale at veteransradio .org or jim at veteransradio 00:31:48.859 --> 00:31:51.460 .org to get more information, but we'd love to 00:31:51.460 --> 00:31:53.880 have you come out and we'd certainly love to 00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:58.500 have you sponsor. And I want to thank everybody 00:31:58.500 --> 00:32:01.319 for listening to Veterans Radio today. I am Jim 00:32:01.319 --> 00:32:04.200 Fossone. It's been a pleasure to be your host. 00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:07.019 I'm a Veterans Disability Lawyer at Legal Help 00:32:07.019 --> 00:32:10.980 for Veterans and you can reach us at 800 -693 00:32:10.980 --> 00:32:15.799 -4800 or legalhelpforveterans .com on the web. 00:32:16.500 --> 00:32:19.380 You can follow Veterans Radio on Facebook and 00:32:19.380 --> 00:32:22.200 listen to its podcasts and Internet radio shows 00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:26.490 by visiting us at veteransradio .org. That's 00:32:26.490 --> 00:32:29.769 veteransradio .org. We would again want to thank 00:32:29.769 --> 00:32:32.809 our national sponsors, the National Veterans 00:32:32.809 --> 00:32:38.329 Business Development Council, nvbdc .org. Legal 00:32:38.329 --> 00:32:41.730 Help for Veterans, a veterans disability law 00:32:41.730 --> 00:32:45.809 firm with a national practice before the VA. 00:32:46.509 --> 00:32:48.990 Can help you on your claims and your appeals. 00:32:49.769 --> 00:32:53.369 It can be reached at legalhelpforveterans .com 00:32:53.369 --> 00:33:00.789 or 1 -800 -693 -4800. And PuroClean, a leader 00:33:00.789 --> 00:33:05.009 in property emergency services. It's the paramedics 00:33:05.009 --> 00:33:08.769 of property damage, providing water damage remediation, 00:33:09.069 --> 00:33:12.809 flood water removal, fire and smoke damage remediation, 00:33:13.069 --> 00:33:16.809 mold and biohazard cleanups. You can reach them 00:33:16.809 --> 00:33:24.549 at puroclean .com. or 800 -775 -7876. We also 00:33:24.549 --> 00:33:27.490 want to thank our local sponsors. This would 00:33:27.490 --> 00:33:33.349 include the Charles S. Kettles chapter of the 00:33:33.349 --> 00:33:36.549 Vietnam Veterans of America, that's chapter 310, 00:33:36.910 --> 00:33:41.769 VFW Graf O 'Hara post 423, the American Legion 00:33:41.769 --> 00:33:45.700 Erwin Preskin post 46 in Ann Arbor as well. the 00:33:45.700 --> 00:33:48.579 VA Ann Arbor Health Care System, and certainly 00:33:48.579 --> 00:33:51.680 the National Vietnam Veterans of America Association. 00:33:52.380 --> 00:33:54.980 You can be a sponsor by going to veteransradio 00:33:54.980 --> 00:33:59.420 .org, clicking on the About Us and our sponsors, 00:33:59.539 --> 00:34:02.680 and help us out. Keep this program alive for 00:34:02.680 --> 00:34:07.240 the 21 and 22 years. Keep us going for another 00:34:07.240 --> 00:34:08.420 20. Thank you.