All across America and around the world, this
is Veterans Radio. This is Veterans Radio. And
now, your host for today's program, Dale Throneberry.
Hey, welcome to Veterans Radio. This is Dale
Throneberry, a CW2 helicopter pilot in Vietnam,
1969. Welcome to our program. I'm really excited
today. We've got two... Vietnam Veterans Guests.
I just left the message for my friend who can't
get on Zoom, so he's going to be calling the
station, I hope, pretty soon. And we will go
from there. But Doug Bradley is going to be on
the program. And Doug, as you know, is one of
our favorite people. He writes all about the
music of the Vietnam era. He was in Vietnam.
He wrote We Gotta Get Out of This Place and He'll
Stop the Rain. He's got another book that's coming
up shortly. So he's going to be on whenever he
gets through, hopefully. And then coming up after
a quick break, we've got Frank Fox coming on.
And Frank has written a really cool book called
Jersey Boy Takes Flight. And all of you who have
been listening to Veterans Radio over the years
know that I am from New Jersey as well. And this
book was a time trip for me. He grew up pretty
close to where I grew up. And many of his adventures
were similar to the ones that I had with Lee
Squenelle as a kid. And he went to Vietnam also
as a pilot. And so it's a great story. It's fun.
I think you'll enjoy the interview with Frank.
He's kind of a character. I really enjoyed talking
with him, and I'm looking forward to talking
to him again. The other thing while we're getting,
we may just go into that interview if Doug doesn't
come along. Now every week I want to make sure
that we thank our sponsors because we can't do
this program without them and They're just they've
been with us for some of them for 20 years And
we really appreciate that. So let me tell you
who we did. So we got Legal Help for Veterans.
Legal Help for Veterans specializes in Veterans
disability claims. Call Legal Help for Veterans
at 800 -693 -4800 or go to their website, legalhelpforveterans
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leading third -party authority for certification
of veteran -owned businesses. For more information,
go to their website, that's nvbdc .org, or give
them a call at 888 -237 -8433. Remember, if you
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out special contracts to veteran -owned businesses.
So make sure that you get certified. These are
the folks that can help you do that. Puro Clean,
the paramedics of property damage. Puro Clean
is one of the nation's leading restoration franchise
networks and is made up of entrepreneurs just
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fee. Pretty cool. So for more information, go
to puroclean .com. One more. Charles S. Kettles,
VA Medical Center in Ann Arbor, Michigan. For
more information, go to va .gov slash Ann Arbor
Health Care. The Erwin Presko and American Legion
Post 46 and the Charles S. Kettles Vietnam Veterans
of America Chapter 310, both of Ann Arbor, Michigan.
If you'd like to support Veterans Radio, which
I hope that you will, please go to our website,
veteransradio .org and click on the donate button.
Thank you in advance for your support. And now
to our program. So joining me on the line is
our good friend, Doug Radley. And Doug is - Dale,
your microphone is muted. It changed. Hold on.
How's that? Okay. So, gremlins all over the world
today. Well, it's changed back. Yeah, okay I'm
sorry folks. We're very professional here today
and we're moving right along anyway So Doug Bradley
is as I mentioned before has written a number
of books about the music of the Vietnam era He
was our speaker last year our radio on the river
fundraiser This year, he's been invited back
to Southeast Michigan to be the guest speaker
at the Fisher House, Michigan's Songs of Service.
So Doug, welcome back to Veterans Radio. It's
always a pleasure. It's great to be with you
and your listeners. A great hello to my fellow
vets listening in. Welcome home. Welcome home
to everybody. So I was really excited when I
found out that you were going to be the guest
speaker this year at the Fisher House. Well,
I'm pretty excited myself. I hope that excitement
parlays into you're getting a ticket because
I give this is Dale I mean you guys know this
you talk about this all the time you have people
on the show this is a one of the best nonprofits
we have because What they do is the Fisher houses
and there are about a hundred of them Across
the country and around the world is improve the
quality of life for military active military
vets, service members, retirees, veterans, families,
and caregivers. They save lives. That's the bottom
line, is that the organization does that. You
are fortunate enough to have two in Michigan,
one in Ann Arbor, one in Detroit, and I'm fortunate
enough to be invited out on their gala this year,
the fourth annual fundraiser, and it's about
songs of service, and you know, hey, you got
me, you're gonna have songs. I'm really excited
about it and I do hope anybody listening that's
within traveling distance of Detroit can come
on April 5th and support this wonderful organization.
It is truly a great organization and we've been
fortunate enough as you know to be behind the
fundraising before we even got to Fisher House
here in Ann Arbor and then they were able to
raise enough funds to build one in Detroit. And
so that's kind of what they're going to be celebrating
at Songs of Service on Saturday, April 5th. It's
going to be kind of cool. It's going to start
at 430 in the afternoon. It's in downtown Detroit
at the Book Tower, which is one of those refurbished
office buildings in downtown Detroit. So it's
going to be really kind of cool, I think. And
I'm excited to go. I do have a ticket. I have
to admit that we placed a little advertisement
in there. Brochure for the event. So I will definitely
be there Doug. I'll be happy to see you again
Out there. That's great. I mean and you guys
I mean you're through your efforts and the broadcaster
are supporting, you know us that's every week
and yeah, I I mean this is a it's a critical
time given, you know, the challenges that the
National VA is facing a lot of commotion and
turmoil about you know Benefits and staffing
Fisher houses are probably even more vitally
important because they're right there next to
the to the VA hospital and medical facilities
and If there's a family emergency, I mean they
even provide people donate their miles on airlines
to help families get there to be by the side
of The veteran or the military member of their
family. So yeah, I you know Tickets are still
available. I know that you know WWW Fisher house,
Michigan. It's all one word and it's an F I S
H E R Fisher house, Michigan dot org slash events
Good luck to fill the room. Not just because
you and I are going to be there but because Yeah,
we're not the main attractions here The main
attraction is Fisher house itself and it's and
it's such a a great organization, again, for
our audiences that aren't quite familiar with
what a Fisher House is. It's sort of like a Ronald
McDonald House. And when a veteran has to travel
a great distance to utilize the facilities at
a VA hospital, the family can stay at the Fisher
House absolutely free instead of having to stay
in a hotel or motel wherever they are. And it's
really cool. It's like a really cool B &B type
of place, they have a huge kitchen, a commercial
kitchen where people come and they can cook meals
if they want to. All kinds of non -profit organizations
out there will come in and cook meals and donate
food. It's a great facility. The interesting
thing and kind of cool is that once the Fisher
House is built and all ready to go, Fisher House
National turns the keys over to the local VA.
And so, you know, as you mentioned with some
of the turmoil out there, we got to make sure
that people are aware that this Fisher House
is going to keep going. And I'm sure that it
will. Well said, Dale. In fact, you're you're
better advertisement than I am because you've
known this. You've seen it. You know, we only
yeah, I spent part of my time in Wisconsin and
part in Arizona. The Fisher House activity is
not as vibrant. We only have one in Milwaukee
and Wisconsin. I know we're trying to get one
in Madison. And like you said, it's a vital function.
It's important. It's essential. There's nothing
more important than having family close by to
the service member or the veteran. So that's
what they're all about. And again, you've heard
me. Show multiple times and you've seen me in
person, you know, I like to talk and tell the
stories about the song So folks there told me
I got I got to keep this the 20 or 30 minutes
So I'll try and pack in as much good music and
and good reflections from veterans as I can But
again, yeah the real important thing the nexus
of all this is the Fisher house activity the
organization the nonprofit So yeah, if folks
have a chance, you know get there and do what
you can to support Fisher House Michigan. Absolutely.
It's going to be a fun time. I know I've worked
as a DJ for Doug last year at our fundraiser.
So we're going to be hearing lots of great music
for those of you out there that are familiar
with 60s music. This guy is a walking, literally
a walking encyclopedia on that. So I encourage
people, those of you in Southeast Michigan, or
it can make it out to come out to the Songs of
Service Fisher House Michigan Saturday, April
5th. at the book tower. And as Doug was kind
enough to point out, just go to fisherhousemichigan
.org slash events. Tickets are available. Come
on down. You get to meet two of your famous people
in the world, right? Doug, thank you. Thank you
so much for being here. Always. Thank you. It'll
be great to see you again. Welcome home to my
vets, fellow vets who are listening. And yeah,
come out if you can, folks. We'd love to see
you on April 5th. OK. We will. I'll see you then.
Thanks, Doug. Thanks, buddy. Thank you, Mike.
All right. See you. All right. We're going to
take a kind of a quick break here, but it's going
to be an introduction to my next guest. So for
those of you that have listened to Veterans Radio
over the years, one of our favorite guests was
Joe Galloway. And unfortunately, Joe has passed
away, but we saved his voice. And so we're going
to play a little thing that is taken from a documentary
called In the Shadow of the Blade. And so here
we go. So this will be it. When we come back,
Frank Fox, talk on helicopters. Here we go. to
those blades. That familiar wop wop wop is the
soundtrack of our war. The lullaby of our younger
days. To someone who's spent his time in Nome
with the grunts, I've got to tell you that noise
was always great comfort. It meant someone was
coming to help. Someone was coming to get our
wounded. Someone was coming to bring us water
and ammo. Someone was coming to take our dead
brothers home. and eventually someone was coming
to give us a ride out of hell. Even today when
I hear it I stop, catch my breath, and think
back to those days. I love you guys as only an
infantryman can. No matter how bad things were,
if we called, you came. Down through the green
tracers and other visible signs of a real bad
day, off to a real bad start. To us, you seemed
beyond brave and fearless, that you would come
to us in the middle of battle in those flimsy,
thin -skinned crates. And in the storm of fire,
you would sit up there behind that thin plexiglass,
seeming so patient and so calm and so vulnerable,
waiting for the offloading and the unloading.
We thought you were God's own lunatics, and we
loved you. Still do. We're the fortunate ones.
We survived when so many better men gave up their
precious lives for us. We owe them a sacred debt
to live each day to its fullest. What they're
saying when you listen hard enough is this. We're
at peace and so should you be. And so should
you be. And we are back here on Beckins radio.
That was Joe Galloway, taken from the documentary
In the Shadow of the Bleed. I don't know if it's...
I don't know if I necessarily like being called
a lunatic, but it's better than some of the other
things I've been called. Joining me on the line
right now is my new good friend. Frank Fox. Frank
is the author of the book entitled Jersey Boy
Takes Flight. It's the story of one man's life,
loss and love during the Vietnam era. He is a
fellow New Jerseyite. He's also a fellow rotorhead.
And I'm really happy to have Frank on the program.
Frank, welcome to Veterans Radio. Well, Dale,
thank you very much for having me. And from one
Jersey boy to another, I love your introduction
with Joe Galloway, period. He was a great writer,
and he really did love his veteran community.
I think he was the only civilian to receive a
Bronze Star for Valor for the Battle of Ai Drang
Valley many years ago now. Anyhow, so the book,
what made you decide that you were going to write
this story? Well, Dale, I started this story
35 years ago and I had a series of, you know,
stories and vignettes banging around in my head
and I wanted to leave a footprint. I tell my
grandchildren I essentially was doing this term
paper for them and that's essentially how it
all turned out. But as I got into it, I started
seeing how I could link a lot of my life's events
together, you might say, and I started liking
the way the story sounded. You know, in life,
some of the things that seem somewhat, if it
had 50 years or so to look and sort of reflect
on the entirety of our lives, It's like some
of those things that seem insignificant were
the most significant things that happened to
us. And so when I looked at it that way, maybe
if I had started this project 10 years after
coming back from Vietnam, I wouldn't have had
the same reference points. So like I said, I
started liking it and I started being able to
see how I wanted to tell the story. I also wanted
to I had some good experiences in life, met some
good people, had some good people as high school
teachers, some mentors, friends of my father,
and things like that, that I wanted to remember
them in a way. And I think you've read the book,
so you know that I have probably cited six or
eight people in remembrance. But it's not a formal
remembrance. They became parts of my life and
I enroll them, you might say, into it. One interesting
story is my high school, our high school. The
superintendent of our high school was Monsignor
Thomas Reardon. He walked amongst us every day
as high school kids and we just didn't know what
a national treasure he was. He was... the first
Marine Corps chaplain ashore at Guadalcanal,
and he stayed on the beach for 85 days. And you
know, I don't mean to interrupt you here, but
you know, I was thinking about this when you
mentioned this in the book, you know, how many
of our teachers from our whole generation, just,
you know, those of us out there in our 70s, probably,
you know, if we look back at the teachers that
we had in high school, how many of them were
World War II veterans, and how many of them had
really stories to tell. And if we'd only had
the hindsight to go back in time and say, hey,
Mr. Fox, tell me about this adventure that you
had. Because you grew up in New Jersey, talk
a little bit about growing up in the... in the
50s and 60s in New Jersey for our audience. Not
everybody's familiar with that. Yeah, I think
New Jersey gets looked down upon. It seems an
awful lot. But my remembrances of New Jersey
are the Jersey Shore. And I think you have roots
there also. Absolutely. There's a hundred and
seventy miles of beautiful beach. I don't want
to sound like a member of the Chamber of Commerce,
but I've been all over the world and I still
remember the beaches at New Jersey as being some
of the finest that I've ever been to and also
had an awful lot of fun there. But growing up
in New Jersey, having been born in 1947, the
fifties were somewhat tranquil. for an 11, you
know, 10, 11, 12 year old kid. And these were
the days when on any, you might say summer vacation
day, your mother would tell you on the way out
the door at nine o 'clock, remember to be home
for dinner at six o 'clock, which means that
us young guys, you know, all kids had the entire
day to do things like ride our bikes, go swimming.
If the season was correct, go ice skating. Slide
over the dam spillway into the river Pitch baseball
cards. I'm sure you remember that I think some
cards doing that I lost and oh I don't think
I ever won at that game and it's the reason why
I never gambled as an older guy because I figured
the die was already cast but we used to flip
cards to you could pitch them against the wall
you could flip them, but Those were really good
times, an awful lot of good memories. And you're
right about, I think when I look back at friends
of my parents, teachers, Boy Scout leaders, Little
League coaches, all of those men were Second
World War veterans. And they all were very can
-do people. And you know, a lot of that rubbed
off, even though you don't know it's rubbing
off. And you'll harken back to those guys. And
I think in my instance, they were mentoring me
and I didn't know it. And so that was a good
thing. I think a lot of that's going on nowadays
also. But when you're right up and close, you
don't notice it until you reflect upon it some
years later. Right, yeah, we don't see those
things until then. So, how did you end up in
getting into the army? Well, so the 50s turned
into the tumultuous 60s of, you know, assassinations
of US presidents, a senator running for president,
Martin Luther King, race riots, civil rights
riots, anti - war anti -draft protests. And so
as a young guy at that time, which now starts
becoming one of, I'm becoming of military age,
and we have a looming war, an ever emerging war,
if you will, getting bigger and bigger, a lot
of commitments being made by our country. It
was probably very prominent, the most prominent
thing on one young man's mind at the time. I
decided at the prime of my draft years to not
go to Knight College and instead take a chance
and play Russian roulette with the draft thinking
that the government would never catch up with
me in 53 days. Well, they caught up with me in
53 days and I was drafted on the 1st of August
1966 and I was drafted into the army. I didn't
have any regrets. I was shocked that they could
be that efficient. And the way things turned
out for me as a 19 -year -old, Now that I've
looked back over the years and I did this long
before we got to this point, it was the best
thing that ever happened to me was having served
in the military. As a case in point, I got drafted
and a lot of people I knew didn't want to be
drafted and didn't like it. And they took it
as a bad thing, if you will. I was OK with it.
But then all of a sudden, a few opportunities
were presented to me. like being offered an opportunity
to go to officer candidate school. I went. I
thought that was rather interesting that you
were offered that at 19 or 20 years old to go
to go to OCS. Yeah, how about that? So I graduated
as second lieutenant of infantry. Recall you
were talking about your infantry experience down
at Fort Polk. So I graduated as Second Lieutenant
of Infantry, and I often thought that if I had
gone immediately to an infantry platoon, I'd
have been the youngest guy in the platoon as
the platoon leader. So I did do that for a short
period, but then I later went to flight school,
and that was another opportunity that was presented.
The point here is that to me, sometimes in life,
Weigh the pros and the cons. I went to infantry
OCS and then to flight school. You did too. It
was a helicopter war and it was dangerous. But
sometimes, and when you're 21 you're bulletproof
anyway, sometimes though circumstances present
themselves and you have to weigh the pros and
the cons. You have to do that in life no matter
where you go. Don't be afraid of taking a chance.
It might, it might pay off in spades as you march
through life. So that would be my advice to young
people who maybe are faced with the same kind
of things. I realize we don't have a draft now,
but there are other things and in other walks
of life on a daily basis, you're faced with those
kinds of decisions. I would say take a chance
after you do as much research as you can and
think about it. So you ended up in flight school.
Out in beautiful Fort Walters, Texas. Beautiful
Fort Walters. Right outside of Miserable Wells,
Texas. Yep. And I've told these stories on the
air before, but I'd love to hear them again.
So what aircraft did you learn to fly in? My
basic trainer was the TH -55. Oh, the Mattel
Measuresman. Yes. Look like it looked like a
hard -boiled egg, you know Blown up about 50
times with a stick coming out the back in a very
small tail rotor But the IPs were very confident
in its abilities and because of that so were
the rest of us It was an aircraft that we didn't
know this at the time but When we went on to
advanced training we ended up flying ue's unlike
some others who flew the H -13, we went right
into UEs at the Hunter Army Airfield. And the
control touch on a TH -55, believe it or not,
was somewhat similar to a UE. So the transition
from one aircraft to another in terms of control
touch, et cetera, was similar. That's interesting.
I never heard about that. So you ended up going
to Fort Stewart. I went to Hunter Amirfield at
Fort Stewart, yes. Okay. I was, I think I was
the third or only the third or fourth class,
you know, but they opened it up when we were
there and we had an opportunity to apply to go
there if we wanted to go to Savannah instead
of Fort Rucker. Oh. I wanted to go to Savannah
because I was thinking of the Jersey Shore and
the beautiful beaches and it was going to be
summertime. And there were coeds probably from
Savannah University and a University of Georgia
down there. And it turns out that although it
was a beautiful place, it was a little bit on
the old folks' home side. And so, but it was
still a great place and it was a great place
to finish flight school during the summer of
68. Yeah, I'm assuming that it must have been
a little bit more fun than being in Southeast
Alabama. It was a lot more fun than Southeast
Alabama. Quick aside, question is, during the
second part of your flight training at Fort Hunter
Stewart, did you guys fly out over the beaches
or did you go inland? I thought that would be
kind of cool. Well, we never low level down the
beach like all of us wanted to do, but we waited
till we got to Vietnam to do that. We had to
wait to get to Vietnam to do the real fun stuff.
Yes. But we did fly out over the beaches. You
know, we took all of our instrument. The first
eight weeks was instrument training under the
hood. Yeah. And the way the flight patterns all
seemed to work is I guess they had beacons. at
some of the shore towns, if you will, Brunswick,
Georgia, and places a little bit further south
in Savannah. And we flew up in the South Carolina,
too, but we were doing all beacon work, you know,
with the hood on. So you really never got to
see much unless it wasn't your turn to fly and
you were sitting in the back. Right. So, but
it was that we flew inland, too. In fact, one
of the rather cool events. Excuse me a second.
A rather interesting event we had was that you're
familiar with Fort Benning George at the home
of the U .S. infantry. Not too far away from
Savannah. It's just across the state. One of
the exercises we had was to go down to Fort Benning
and pick up officer candidates who were being
trained as infantry officer candidates to be
commissioned as second lieutenant and to do a
combat assault with our UEs picking up the soon
to be lieutenants and then flying an actual combat
assault to some other end of Fort Benning. We
did that once, but that started to become a part
of the training for both sides. Yeah, we did
that. We came from Fort Rucker and did the same
thing. OK, so there you go. So we did that. It
was interesting. When I reflect back on that
I often think that you know those guys that were
there that I don't know 180 of them that we airlifted
that day I wonder how many of us cross paths
in Vietnam and did the exact same thing but now
as as bona fide the army aviators and Second
lieutenants are perhaps first or captain or captains
of infantry Officers in Vietnam doing it doing
it for real. Yeah It'd be interesting if you
could research that I can tell you this quick
story is that I ran into When I was leaving Vietnam
and there was a de -roasting out at the 90th
replacement I was in the bar there and lo and
behold there was my Company commander from basic
training And he was coming back for his second
tour and he was he was a big red -headed guy
and I walked up to him and I said, you know Captain
Siebert and I said, you know, I was and he looked
at me and he just goes You lived You made it
you made it Yes, I did. Yes, I did. So yeah,
you never know where you're gonna run into these
people that you experience I mean considering
all of those that you meant so when you were
in Vietnam What was your what was your the mission
that you had over there? Well, I was in the 192nd
assault helicopter company and and we were a
lift company We conducted combat assault missions
virtually every day and then we also flew the
I guess you for one of a better word the ashen
trash missions, you know, like You know fly people
out to such and such a place scope go pick up
people coming in to to be returned home pick
up the mail pick up the you know, the Sea ration,
whatever whatever early on early uber Yes, and
early Uber is right. The unit that we supported
exclusively for the entire year was 30 to 506th
101st Airborne Division, which we were all real
proud of doing. We were not attached to that
unit, but we supported them exclusively. And
for us, that's the unit. That was the Curry He
regiment during the Second World War, which has
been made famous by, I can't remember the author's
name, but he wrote the book, The Band of Brothers.
So it was for us kind of interesting to be supporting
that unit that landed in Normandy that went all
the way to Birch's Garden. And that was our mission
for the entire year. That's interesting. We're
going to take a quick break here, Frank, so we
can wet our whistles a little bit. And so we're
going to be playing our Medal of Honor segment.
today and then we'll be coming back with Frank
Fox. The book is Jersey Boy Takes Flight and
we've gone through flight school and we're in
country and we will be back right after this.
The Medal of Honor is the highest award for valor
in combat given a member of the Armed Forces
of the United States. There have been over 3
,400 recipients of the nation's highest award.
This is one of them. Warrant Officer Frederick
Ferguson led a four -ship helicopter formation
into a South Vietnamese Army compound under heavy
fire. Details after this. If you have a VA claim
denied by the Board of Veterans' Appeals, contact
Legal Help for Veterans at 1 -800 -693 -4800.
They're experts in handling cases before the
U .S. Court of Appeals for Veterans' claims.
Their number again, 1 -800 -693 -4800. After
completing a hitch on the Navy, Ferguson got
his commercial pilot's license and then joined
the army to fly helicopters. Two weeks after
graduating from helicopter school, he was in
Vietnam. On January 31, 1968, Ferguson heard
that a first cavalry helicopter had gone down
in Hue and another had been badly shot up trying
to rescue them. Ferguson and his crew agreed
to go get them. While refueling, he asked three
Huey gunships if they wanted to accompany him.
They did. The GIs in the compound reported they
were under heavy fire. Ferguson circled until
the fire abated, then began a low -level high
-speed run into the compound. He descended blindly
in a dust storm from his rotors. When he touched
down, he saw there was only one -foot clearance
on each side of his blades. The GIs jumped aboard
and Ferguson pulled up. A mortar shell exploded
under his aircraft, spinning it 180 degrees.
One of the Hueys was shot down. and the crew
rescued. The other two were so badly shot up
by the time they landed, they were no longer
able to fly. Ferguson received his Medal of Honor
from President Nixon on May 17, 1969. The Medal
of Honor series is a production of Veterans Radio.
Military veterans touch everyone's life. I'm
guessing right now you're thinking of a veteran,
a close friend, relative. Maybe it's you. Even
the toughest of us sometimes need help, but...
And we're back here on Veterans Radio and we
are talking with Frank Fox and his book is Jersey
Boy Takes Flight. one man's story of life, loss
and love during the Vietnam era. So, Frank, we've
got you in country. You're supporting 101st Airborne.
I'm sure that you had some adventures while you
were doing that. Oh, yes, absolutely. One that
comes to mind in particular was one of those.
You alluded to it earlier, I think, in your introduction.
Bad things never happened during good weather.
There was always bad weather associated with
it. So a particular incident that happened with
me, summer of 68, let me see, summer of 69, I
was flying or assigned to fly with the gun team
and we were on standby. I'm sure your unit did
the same thing. Anyway, the standby birds got
called out this night and it was in the middle
of a monsoon, horrendous thunderstorm, lightning.
So six of us were dispatched, six aircraft were
dispatched to go up to a near a place called
Dalat and a ranger team had been taken under
fire there so they needed to get out. Long story
short, the rain was so horrendous, it sounded
like hail hitting the front of the aircraft.
Windshield wipers did no good no matter when
you used them, but it didn't matter. We were
flying on instruments, although not instrument,
really instrument qualified. And it was tense
and the weather made it tense. So I had visions
in my brain was thinking we got six or eight
aircraft all going to the same spot. None of
us can see the other airplane. We're all going
to run into each other and just become big piles
of junk. Turns out then that all of a sudden
this Air Force Lieutenant Colonel who's flying
a C -47 spooky aircraft and who's probably flying
up about 8 ,000 feet, he sees these aircraft
coming through the clouds and the thunderstorm
and he radios down to us. We were in a Tiger
Shark aircraft. Tiger Shark 1234. This is spooky,
three, four, five, whatever. It sounded like
God was addressing us. I remember looking at
the co -pilot. Actually, I was the co -pilot.
I was with CW2, Don Hancock. I remember Don and
I shooting a quick glance at each other and saying,
was that God that was speaking to us? And if
it was, it sure happened at the right time. What
he said to us was, I see you guys coming up,
and he sorted us all out, you might say. He told
us that in about five minutes, we ought to break
out at a terrible weather. There'll be a big
shaft of clear air. If you can believe it, you
don't think God's not on our side. And in fact,
it all happened that way. So over the years,
I've thought about that mysterious Lieutenant
Colonel flying a spooky aircraft. And I thought
that he was probably 50 years old. probably a
World War II veteran, probably weather -beaten,
probably had 20 ,000 hours of flight time. And
he took all eight of us, young 21 -year -old
Army aviators, herded us up, made sure we were
all, you know, in sync, got us to talking with
the people on the ground, drove us into the contact
area, and from there we were able to accomplish
the mission and essentially our lift ships rescued
eight Americans that night. That was it was something
to be. It was something to see and something
to be part of. Oh, absolutely. And you never
know. Flying in flying in the weather of of Vietnam
and the monsoon season was just the worst. And
as you mentioned, the. the wipers were terrible
because they'd all dried out during the dry season,
and if you turned them on you were going to wreck
your windshield. If I'm not mistaken, the windshield
wiper situation was so bad that the crew chiefs
used to just safety wire them up so that they'd
never move. Yeah, they wouldn't let us turn them
on, which was fine. I have a follow -up story
to this particular evening in Vietnam, so fast
forward. to 1984 or five. So that's a full 15
years forward. I was assigned to the Pentagon
and we used to all carpool. So we have, there's
five of us in the car. We're all army aviators.
We work in the aviation division and we're stuck
in a snowstorm on I -395 going south. So the
conversation, you know, we all start just telling
war stories, just that and the other thing. And
it turns out that the fella, who's on my on my
right up against the door he starts talking about
a place called Song Mao and he starts talking
about terrible weather you know holy cow spooky
aircraft a big shaft of air clear air for eight
miles on either side and these army guys who
came to get us and it turns out he was the infantry
lieutenant on the ground and he and i in all
likelihood spoke to each other on the FM radio
that night It was like we looked at each other
and just couldn't believe it. And we kept telling
and retelling the story to where we made sure
it matched. And it matched. His name was Ken
McGinty. He later went on to become the Army's
program manager for the AH -64 helicopter, the
standard attack helicopter today, even. And so
it was Ken McGinty and I, two guys who'd met
15 years earlier in a god -awful place during
a god -awful... storm. And here we are sitting
in the comfort of the backseat of somebody's
big Buick. I had a similar experience. I can
relate to that. Some guy says, were you in such
and such a place? And I said, yeah, I was there
on proximate dates. And he goes, I was there.
And in our area down in Three Car, we had this
mountain called Nui Ba Dinh that just kind of
erupted out of the rice paddies. And he was there.
And I would drop supplies off to these guys all
the time. You know, you mentioned the Ashton
Trask stuff. Anyway, so the subtitle of your
book was Life, Loss, and Love. And we all know
about the life, which is funny. People, you've
got to read this book. It's got some really great
stuff in here. Just about growing up in the 50s
and 60s, which no matter where you were in the
countries, pretty similar, I'll bet. We know
about the loss of anybody who's been in vietnam.
We always You know how many friends that we lost
there and have lost since then I want to know
a little bit about this love story Oh the love
story. Well, you know, I can't tell you the entire
story. I know you can't tell me the whole thing,
but your wife is in the background there but
but uh, uh the the in reflecting back on the
love story, um, I uh I've been happily married
now for 54 years. In June, it'll be 55 years
to my lovely wife, Kathy. It turns out that Kathy
met and I, we met at a time when I was in flight
school. And anyway, as a result of a terrible
tragedy and incredible circumstances and coincidences,
we ended up getting married a couple, two years
after I returned home. The rest is in the story,
if you will. But the things that brought us together,
I touched on it a little earlier about things
that happen. You participate in something and
you think nothing of it. And then all of a sudden,
X number of years later, you say, you know, that
thing that I was involved in and I met these
people. You know they became the most significant
people in my life. You didn't know it at the
time My life has been filled with examples like
that which is part of the reason why I put this
book and I put it together You know the way I
did was because I think some of those stories
had to be told that it added something to To
your life story or my life story for sure So,
uh, so yeah, so it's interesting how we met It's
interesting how it turned out. It's interesting
that I met people that became significant people
in my life when I thought that they were just
going to be acquaintances in passing. And it
turned out to be the best thing that ever happened
to me. My wife and I have two children and two
grandchildren. And I mean, life is good. Life
is good. As the shirt says. Life is good. When
you got back home from Vietnam, you stayed in
the military. What was your job after you got
back? Well, can I tell the story about flying
home on the Freedom Bird? Oh, yeah, we may all
have the same story. We all had the same feelings.
I'm sure that once you got home on the flight,
bringing you home, there was a lot of nervous
chatter on the airplane because it was a god
awful 15 hour flight or whatever. We landed up
at SeaTac in Seattle. And as we got closer to
the US, people were looking out and on the horizon.
You know, you can see the lights of Washington
state. Finally, the captain came over and told
us, yes, indeed, it was it was lights from the
United States. So as you can imagine, and you
probably went through the same thing, everybody
broke out in full throated, you know, cheers.
Yay. And the head flight flight attendant sang
started singing God bless America and was joined
by the entire airplane. It was something, it's
a remembrance that you had to be there and you
never forget it. It was really something. When
I got back from Vietnam, I got reassigned. I
got assigned to Fort Walters, Texas, my second
tour there. And I became an instructor pilot
in that TH -55 thing. Oh, good. So I was an instructor
for 16 months down there and that was some of
the best duty I ever had. Over the course of
16 months. I had 18 students and They were all
memorable and it was a good time. I was gonna
ask you did you When I came back, I was an instructor
pilot at four four Rucker and advanced Was it
called advanced? Training that toward the they're
just getting done. So we were teaching them low
-level flying and auto rotations and all this
other stuff and I always tell people I found
it to be more dangerous than Vietnam. It's like,
you know, like you're teaching driver's ed, but
you're in a helicopter and you know, going to
90 miles an hour with trees and wires and things.
Oh, I know what you mean. I had a couple of instances
where I thought, you know, it was safer in Vietnam
than it is here in Fort Walters, Texas. Everything
is relative. You know, what are you guys trying
to do kill me or something? Something like that
made it this far. So anyway, so you you you ended
up as a career officer. Yes. And where did you
go from in that part of your life? Well, I went
So when we got back, it seems like I went to
night school for 27 years after that. And I finished
degree completion, you might say. We bounced
around. We ended up going to Korea as a family.
We ended up in Latin America as a family in the
Panama Canal area. My last assignment was six
years in the Pentagon, which was... Pentagon's
an interesting place to be, and it's interesting
to be part of the entire process, but it's no
fun. I don't think so. But it is interesting
to see how the Army works, how the Army funds
its programs, and how it has to exist with the
other services. None of this stuff, by the way,
is in the book because the book is essentially
the first 23 years of my life. I jammed a lot
of stuff into the first 23. You did. This is
a good read. People can't see, but I'm trying
to lift the book up here. It almost looks like
the Bible, doesn't it? Well, it's got good, good
print in it, too. I did that for us guys over
70. I appreciate that. Thank you. And he's got
it's got some really cool photos in here. And
as our childhoods were in the 1950s and so a
lot of them are in black and white. You know,
and I bet you have some examples, too, of people
said, well, why didn't you take a bunch of pictures
while you were in Vietnam? And you say, you know,
I was busy. You know, how do I fly a helicopter
and take pictures at the same time? I know and
remember it was long before you know the The
cell phones of today that everybody has a camera
everywhere Yes, you know, we obviously didn't
have that and you're right. How do you take it?
There's two of us supposed to be concentrating
real hard up here And sometimes the crew chiefs
would take pictures and I think some of the pictures
I came that's how they came to me is the fact
Right. Yeah, they took our pictures and who chiefs
took pictures and they passed them below to us
Yeah, plus we had a little You know little Kodak
cameras The instamatics that's why some of those
those pictures that you reference in the book
are all black and white But some of those are
pictures of pictures from 55 years And so they
they come out a little bit cloudy, you know,
they've been around the block a time or two Yeah,
well, they're great pictures and it's a it's
a it's a great book Frank and I really applaud
you The effort that you put into this and it's
you know, we all We always say here at veterans
radio that every veteran has a story to tell
and you know Some of them are very similar, but
they're all they're all your stories Yeah, I
think I think the idea that that you were able
to get it out and get it on paper and The book
is available as an audiobook folks. So, you know,
you can just go to you know your favorite favorite
place for books Amazon, I know, because I just
downloaded the audio book this morning because
I wanted to make sure I didn't miss something
when I was reading it. And it's it's actually
it's narrated by the Frank Fox, well -known book
narrator. Well, thank you very much for your
kind words. But I really do. I encourage you.
And a lot of you out there will will be able
to relate to the stories that are in here. You
know and as I was reading it I was I was traveling
all over the country You know, you mentioned
that the lot in here quite a bit now. I was Down
south a little bit more, but we went to the lot
one time Taking we flew up the interior decorator
for a general in Saigon to buy furniture in the
lot And when we came back, we had the whole cargo
area was full of furniture A little hard to get
your head around that war wasn't it? It was.
There were so many things that just didn't make
any sense. Although, and I do agree with you,
it was probably one of the most important times
of my life. And I met some of the most amazing
men that were friends of mine forever. And unfortunately,
you know, some of the side effects of that war
have taken many of them away. And that just makes
you, you know, getting a little angry over that.
So we are coming up to the end of the program.
Frank, again, I want to thank you so much. And
I look forward to talking to you again just for
fun. I will do that. You'll be hearing from me
again. Thank you very much, Dale. Appreciate
it. Okay. All right. Hang around. I want to talk
when we're done. All right. I'm coming up on
how much time have I got? I got one minute. All
right. Just to remind everybody that we'll be
coming back next week with another Veterans Radio.
We're going to be talking to a guy who goes around
and collects the stories of veterans like many
of us do. He does long versions. He sits down
with the veterans and record them. It's from
an organization called Veteran Archives. I think
you'll find it interesting. And don't forget.
the Fisher House fundraiser coming up on the
5th of April. Go to FisherHouseMichigan .org
slash events. Hopefully I will see you there.
We're going to go out today again on our God
Bless America. And we play this every week because
I just think that it's a great song and we live
in a great country. We just got to keep going
on, because I think it's really important for
us to remember to never give up. And whatever
it is, this too shall pass. So until next week,
this is Dale Thromery for all of us here at Veterans
Radio. You are dismissed. God bless America Land
that I love Stand beside her and guide her Through
the night with the light from above From the
mountain to the prairie To the oceans white with
foam God bless America, my home sweet Home God
bless America, my home sweet for spacious skies,
for amber waves of green, for purple mountains
majesty above the fruited plains. America, America,
God shed Heal. And crown thy good with brotherhood
from sea to shining sea. And crown thy good with
brotherhood from sea. To the prairies, to the
oceans White with foam God bless America, my
home sweet Home God bless America, my home sweet