WEBVTT 00:00:05.160 --> 00:00:08.980 All across America and around the world, this 00:00:08.980 --> 00:00:15.140 is Veterans Radio. This is Veterans Radio. Good 00:00:15.140 --> 00:00:18.739 day. I'm Jim Fosson. I'm the Officer of the Deck 00:00:18.739 --> 00:00:21.179 today here on Veterans Radio and thanks for joining 00:00:21.179 --> 00:00:24.010 us. We've got some interesting stories for you. 00:00:24.329 --> 00:00:26.190 We always want to remind you, you can find more 00:00:26.190 --> 00:00:29.609 about Veterans Radio at its Facebook site or 00:00:29.609 --> 00:00:32.810 at the web, veteransradio .org, where we're on 00:00:32.810 --> 00:00:35.990 the web 24 -7. You can find a lot of our podcasts 00:00:35.990 --> 00:00:39.369 there as well. We post new ones every Tuesday, 00:00:39.530 --> 00:00:43.829 so you can get a new story, a new interview, 00:00:43.990 --> 00:00:46.799 something you didn't know before by going to 00:00:46.799 --> 00:00:49.700 VeteransRadio .org. And before we get started, 00:00:49.780 --> 00:00:53.159 we want to thank our sponsors. First up, we want 00:00:53.159 --> 00:00:55.899 to thank National Veteran Business Development 00:00:55.899 --> 00:01:02.600 Council, NVBDC .org. It was established to certify 00:01:02.600 --> 00:01:05.359 both service -disabled and veteran -owned businesses. 00:01:05.599 --> 00:01:07.560 You'll find out how they can help your business 00:01:07.560 --> 00:01:13.420 by going to NVBDC .org. We want to thank Legal 00:01:13.420 --> 00:01:17.359 Help for Veterans. Legal Help for Veterans fights 00:01:17.359 --> 00:01:20.219 for veterans disability rights all across the 00:01:20.219 --> 00:01:26.519 nation. You can reach them at 800 -693 -4800 00:01:26.519 --> 00:01:32.599 or on the web at legalhelpforveterans .com. And 00:01:32.599 --> 00:01:36.700 finally, PuroClean. PuroClean is the paramedics 00:01:36.700 --> 00:01:39.079 of property damage. It provides water damage 00:01:39.079 --> 00:01:42.480 remediation, flood water removal, fire and smoke 00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:46.219 damage remediation, mold removal, biohazard cleanup. 00:01:47.079 --> 00:01:51.500 It also has a focus on veteran franchisees. You 00:01:51.500 --> 00:01:54.359 can learn more about them by going to PuroClean 00:01:54.359 --> 00:01:59.000 .com. We want to welcome to Veterans Radio today 00:01:59.000 --> 00:02:06.340 David W. Brown, a Navy SEAL in the 1980s. We're 00:02:06.340 --> 00:02:08.759 going to talk about his life though because I 00:02:08.759 --> 00:02:10.840 think there's a whole lot of life lessons in 00:02:10.840 --> 00:02:14.259 there and we love giving pearls of wisdom to 00:02:14.259 --> 00:02:17.240 our veteran radio listeners. David, welcome to 00:02:17.240 --> 00:02:20.280 Veterans Radio. Thank you for having me. Really 00:02:20.280 --> 00:02:24.800 excited to be here. Well, the book is titled 00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:28.900 Anne Goliath. You get the inside joke on this 00:02:28.900 --> 00:02:32.560 when you realize his first name is David, and 00:02:32.560 --> 00:02:34.979 he's not the biggest, roughest, toughest guy 00:02:34.979 --> 00:02:38.039 you've ever met. So it's a David and Goliath 00:02:38.039 --> 00:02:42.620 story. and it's the subtitled, The Littlest Navy 00:02:42.620 --> 00:02:45.780 Seals Inspirational Story About Living Your Biggest 00:02:45.780 --> 00:02:52.719 Life. It's really a good read, and David, you 00:02:52.719 --> 00:02:55.599 were, you know, from the get -go, your mom and 00:02:55.599 --> 00:02:59.580 dad, your genetics, you were never gonna be a 00:02:59.580 --> 00:03:05.229 big guy, were you? No, I started off small and 00:03:05.229 --> 00:03:08.849 stayed small and you know what, in the end, it's 00:03:08.849 --> 00:03:13.409 okay with me. Absolutely, it's all about a mindset 00:03:13.409 --> 00:03:17.430 and it's really about, your book is not the typical 00:03:17.430 --> 00:03:23.370 how to become a Navy SEAL book or how to do leadership. 00:03:24.270 --> 00:03:27.710 It's really about talking about that kind of 00:03:27.710 --> 00:03:32.080 human condition. and being able to be resilient 00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:35.979 and getting through things and being persistent 00:03:35.979 --> 00:03:42.340 and having determination. But those were skills, 00:03:42.500 --> 00:03:49.000 whether they were inbred, genetic, was it nature 00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:52.620 or nurture. Talk to us about your early years 00:03:52.620 --> 00:03:58.419 of being the littlest guy in every class. I didn't 00:03:58.419 --> 00:04:00.400 know that I was going to be the littlest person 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:03.360 going into even kindergarten or grade school. 00:04:03.419 --> 00:04:08.139 It just happened that way and as I came started 00:04:08.139 --> 00:04:11.340 getting older, you know, and I advanced into 00:04:11.340 --> 00:04:14.039 the grades, the typical thing happens and when 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:15.800 you're the smallest person in the class you get 00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:20.519 picked on and I was picked on and one of the 00:04:20.519 --> 00:04:24.100 very important moments in my life was when I 00:04:24.100 --> 00:04:26.779 ran home to my mom and I was crying and and I 00:04:26.779 --> 00:04:28.439 said you know the kids picking on me what do 00:04:28.439 --> 00:04:32.939 I do and she was a a fiery Irish redheaded woman 00:04:32.939 --> 00:04:35.300 and she picked me up on her knee and sat me down 00:04:35.300 --> 00:04:37.779 and said nobody's gonna pick on my little boy 00:04:37.779 --> 00:04:41.269 and she made me make a fist and and punch her 00:04:41.269 --> 00:04:44.110 hand and punch that she said now you you punch 00:04:44.110 --> 00:04:46.850 this is how you punch you do this and she did 00:04:46.850 --> 00:04:48.730 i did it several times so i was like laughing 00:04:48.730 --> 00:04:51.029 i'm like yes yes yes i'm gonna i'm gonna stick 00:04:51.029 --> 00:04:53.009 up for myself and you know you go and you stick 00:04:53.009 --> 00:04:55.589 up for yourself you know you if somebody picks 00:04:55.589 --> 00:04:58.709 on you punch them right in the kisser and um 00:04:58.709 --> 00:05:01.410 so i went to school and as you can imagine i 00:05:01.410 --> 00:05:03.129 got in a fight with the kid that always picked 00:05:03.129 --> 00:05:06.589 on me and we you know we're third grade so it's 00:05:06.589 --> 00:05:09.029 not this is push and shove and punch this then 00:05:09.029 --> 00:05:12.600 then and then nobody really won the fight and 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:15.339 we ended up becoming friends later on but it 00:05:15.339 --> 00:05:19.339 was a big it was a big influence for me and my 00:05:19.339 --> 00:05:22.720 mother helped me bring that confidence out that 00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:24.660 I could stick up for myself. It's not like I 00:05:24.660 --> 00:05:28.000 wanted to go out and get into a fight but that 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:31.120 certainly things worth having were worth fighting 00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:35.699 for and That was the beginning if you will of 00:05:35.699 --> 00:05:39.420 how I was started building my confidence as even 00:05:39.420 --> 00:05:43.360 as a young as a child Yeah, you really at some 00:05:43.360 --> 00:05:46.279 point needs there's a couple of pearls of wisdom 00:05:46.279 --> 00:05:49.480 here what one is You need somebody who's got 00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:52.139 your back right in your instance. It was mom 00:05:52.139 --> 00:05:55.439 mom said it's okay to Let me show you how to 00:05:55.439 --> 00:05:58.680 throw a punch and if you're getting bullied Fight 00:05:58.680 --> 00:06:02.839 back. So it's important to have somebody in your 00:06:02.839 --> 00:06:07.060 corner and knowing when the second pearl of wisdom 00:06:07.060 --> 00:06:10.439 here is standing up for yourself, knowing when 00:06:10.439 --> 00:06:13.819 you've got to be the one, right? I mean, nobody 00:06:13.819 --> 00:06:15.699 else is going to come to your rescue. You got 00:06:15.699 --> 00:06:19.980 to find it within yourself. Yeah, absolutely. 00:06:20.959 --> 00:06:24.079 that's the key. I think finding it within yourself, 00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:27.660 knowing that it's there and having a circumstance 00:06:27.660 --> 00:06:30.720 to bring that out is really important. That's 00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:34.819 where the nurture part of the nature and nurture 00:06:34.819 --> 00:06:38.759 comes in. You know, we all have abilities and 00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:43.300 skills that are inherent to us that we got from 00:06:43.300 --> 00:06:45.480 our ancestors. Your mother, your father, and 00:06:45.480 --> 00:06:48.060 all your ancestors bring all these things, qualities 00:06:48.060 --> 00:06:50.879 to you and you just have to get out there and 00:06:50.839 --> 00:06:54.899 live life so you can experience and how to focus 00:06:54.899 --> 00:06:57.959 on those things and be a better person. Let me 00:06:57.959 --> 00:07:00.319 put some more context around this. You grew up 00:07:00.319 --> 00:07:05.879 in what I would call coal country in Wilkboro, 00:07:06.759 --> 00:07:13.199 Pennsylvania. Your parents, as I say, were short 00:07:13.199 --> 00:07:16.579 in stature. You topped out at five foot three 00:07:16.579 --> 00:07:20.600 inches. were 110 pounds when you went into the 00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:25.839 Navy. But along the way, before you got there, 00:07:25.860 --> 00:07:30.939 you had these experiences that both from your 00:07:30.939 --> 00:07:33.899 parents, maybe grandparents, that sort of started 00:07:33.899 --> 00:07:37.379 to shape your life. And there's an analogy that 00:07:37.379 --> 00:07:43.600 you use about sheepdog that I hadn't heard before 00:07:43.600 --> 00:07:47.240 that I thought was really helpful to frame this. 00:07:47.529 --> 00:07:51.110 Tell us a little bit about that. And that came 00:07:51.110 --> 00:07:54.850 from a some research I was doing about why why 00:07:54.850 --> 00:07:58.329 am I the protector? Why did I go into law enforcement? 00:07:58.470 --> 00:08:01.790 Why did I go into the military? And during my 00:08:01.790 --> 00:08:05.069 research I found came across a book called On 00:08:05.069 --> 00:08:09.430 Combat from Colonel Grossman and in it he explains 00:08:09.430 --> 00:08:14.550 how certain personalities exist in in our society, 00:08:14.790 --> 00:08:18.089 and one of them being a sheepdog. And the sheepdog 00:08:18.089 --> 00:08:22.769 is the protector. Now, the sheep don't particularly 00:08:22.769 --> 00:08:25.069 like the sheepdog sometimes, but you know what? 00:08:25.069 --> 00:08:27.449 They're willing to live with the sheepdog because 00:08:27.449 --> 00:08:30.949 they know the sheepdog can be there to help them 00:08:30.949 --> 00:08:35.370 if the wolf, and that's the other factor in society. 00:08:35.409 --> 00:08:36.950 You have the wolves that are going to prey on 00:08:36.950 --> 00:08:40.309 the sheep. So when you talk about the sheepdog 00:08:40.309 --> 00:08:43.919 personality of mine, that's where that analogy 00:08:43.919 --> 00:08:46.960 comes from is from Colonel Grossman and it's 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:50.840 a great story and I agree as soon as I read it 00:08:50.840 --> 00:08:54.120 I was like this is spot -on because even today 00:08:54.120 --> 00:08:56.759 now that you know I've had a career in law enforcement 00:08:56.759 --> 00:09:00.159 I'm known even though I'm retired I'm known as 00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:03.000 the unofficial sheriff of my neighborhood because 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:06.940 I'm the one who goes to the City Council and 00:09:06.940 --> 00:09:10.220 if there's some something a safety issue I'm 00:09:10.220 --> 00:09:15.000 I petition for it and I rally my neighbors and 00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:20.899 it's just part of who I am. Now also to put context 00:09:20.899 --> 00:09:23.840 into this, I believe you were one of five kids. 00:09:25.860 --> 00:09:29.000 You somehow convinced yourself you could fly 00:09:29.000 --> 00:09:32.399 and you tried jumping off a few things until 00:09:32.399 --> 00:09:35.620 you proved to yourself this is a bad idea. But 00:09:35.620 --> 00:09:39.120 you also got yourself scuba qualified at eight 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:45.850 years old. You had a lot of confidence in some 00:09:45.850 --> 00:09:51.190 of these areas and in some regards, I think you 00:09:51.190 --> 00:10:02.850 are telling us confidence trumps maybe IQ. as 00:10:02.850 --> 00:10:05.009 you mentioned, I tried to jump off a wall with 00:10:05.009 --> 00:10:07.950 cardboard wings, thinking I would fly because 00:10:07.950 --> 00:10:10.889 I had dreams about flying and I quickly found 00:10:10.889 --> 00:10:14.470 out that you cannot fly with cardboard wings. 00:10:15.590 --> 00:10:19.129 So confidence is great, but it needs to be coupled 00:10:19.129 --> 00:10:25.230 with common sense. As a child, I pushed, let's 00:10:25.230 --> 00:10:27.070 just put it this way, when I saw things that 00:10:27.070 --> 00:10:29.929 were dangerous, that was a moderator for me. 00:10:29.950 --> 00:10:34.350 So I was often in the hospital getting stitches, 00:10:34.769 --> 00:10:38.750 sprain, bumps, bruises, and that's just, again, 00:10:38.889 --> 00:10:42.250 is another personality trait. One of those personality 00:10:42.250 --> 00:10:46.830 traits that I think you inherited or got from 00:10:46.830 --> 00:10:50.350 somewhere is you were really adverse to quitting 00:10:50.350 --> 00:10:54.000 anything. You know, jump off the roof once, it 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:55.740 didn't work, okay, I'm making a different set 00:10:55.740 --> 00:10:58.159 of wings, let me try it again. You weren't a 00:10:58.159 --> 00:11:02.539 quitter in any shape or form, were you? It happened 00:11:02.539 --> 00:11:05.879 once, and if you recall, it was the football 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:10.539 story. I decided at 80 pounds, I was gonna try 00:11:10.539 --> 00:11:13.440 out for the football team in junior high school, 00:11:14.500 --> 00:11:17.820 and 80 pound kid. playing football against 100 00:11:17.820 --> 00:11:21.559 200 pound kids didn't go well for me and I quit 00:11:21.559 --> 00:11:25.059 the team and it was it was absolutely devastating 00:11:25.059 --> 00:11:28.559 for me. It took it took over a year really to 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:32.000 get over the fact that I was a quitter and that 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:35.059 had such a influence on me going forward that 00:11:35.059 --> 00:11:37.539 I swore to myself I was never going to quit anything 00:11:37.539 --> 00:11:41.820 again and and I haven't I simply have not if 00:11:41.820 --> 00:11:46.419 I take on a task and even if it's difficult and 00:11:46.419 --> 00:11:49.960 I don't do well I learn you know I learn from 00:11:49.960 --> 00:11:52.639 my experiences and I go forward I don't look 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:56.440 at it as a failure and if you can never fail 00:11:56.440 --> 00:11:59.980 in your life if you look at every single experience 00:11:59.980 --> 00:12:03.620 as a learning opportunity so that's an old you 00:12:03.620 --> 00:12:05.980 know it's not getting knocked down isn't the 00:12:05.980 --> 00:12:08.580 failure the failure is failing to get back up 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:12.179 So as long, and you were very persistent and 00:12:12.179 --> 00:12:17.059 determined to always get back up. 100%, spot 00:12:17.059 --> 00:12:21.460 on. And you write about success, failures, and 00:12:21.460 --> 00:12:24.720 focus. And I think this is, you know, the first 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:28.779 part of this book is so important for anybody 00:12:28.779 --> 00:12:33.220 maybe to give to, as I said, their grandkids, 00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:35.860 their nieces and nephews, their own kids about 00:12:36.250 --> 00:12:39.490 Look, you may feel like you're too small, you're 00:12:39.490 --> 00:12:41.429 scrawny, you're bullied, you're an outsider, 00:12:42.129 --> 00:12:44.970 but your story's really about overcoming all 00:12:44.970 --> 00:12:47.850 that, even when people told you, you're too small, 00:12:47.909 --> 00:12:50.429 you're too weak, you're a poor runner, you'll 00:12:50.429 --> 00:12:52.289 never make it in the Navy, you'll never make 00:12:52.289 --> 00:12:55.549 it in the SEALs. Talk to us a little bit about 00:12:55.549 --> 00:12:58.649 the mountain you faced as you climbed up it, 00:12:58.769 --> 00:13:03.629 ultimately, to graduate BUDs and become a Navy 00:13:03.629 --> 00:13:09.279 SEAL. Oh, you're absolutely right. My whole life 00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:12.159 leading up to before I went into the Navy, I 00:13:12.159 --> 00:13:14.340 was always told you're too small for this, you're 00:13:14.340 --> 00:13:17.600 too small for that. You don't get picked in grade 00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:22.379 school for the teams. And then when I was finally 00:13:22.379 --> 00:13:24.899 get to the point where I'm trying to decide what 00:13:24.899 --> 00:13:26.559 I'm going to do with my life in high school, 00:13:26.940 --> 00:13:31.139 and I went to the Navy recruiter and found out 00:13:31.139 --> 00:13:34.179 that there was the thing called UDT underwater 00:13:34.179 --> 00:13:36.460 demolition team and SEAL teams and I'd never 00:13:36.460 --> 00:13:39.820 heard of it before but It was in a book that 00:13:39.820 --> 00:13:42.860 he gave me job descriptions for the Navy. And 00:13:42.860 --> 00:13:45.059 so I read that and I said, well, this is this 00:13:45.059 --> 00:13:48.240 is it. I have to do this. And, you know, I was 00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:50.840 really into Jacques Cousteau. I was into James 00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:54.100 Bond and Speed Racer and all those shows back 00:13:54.100 --> 00:13:56.240 in the day. And, you know, I read this and I 00:13:56.240 --> 00:13:57.960 said, wow, I'm going to be Jacques Cousteau and 00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:00.379 a machine gun. I'm this is everything I want 00:14:00.379 --> 00:14:02.700 to do in life. And I went to the recruiter said, 00:14:02.759 --> 00:14:05.679 this is it. I'm going to be a UDT seal. And he 00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:09.169 just looked at me and he had a kind wrinkle forehead 00:14:09.169 --> 00:14:14.509 and he said no no you're not no these are UDT 00:14:14.509 --> 00:14:18.490 seals are big strong guys you are not and you 00:14:18.490 --> 00:14:20.289 are not gonna make it you need to pick something 00:14:20.289 --> 00:14:24.250 you can really do now now he was talking to a 00:14:24.250 --> 00:14:28.710 guy who had been told he's too small to do this 00:14:28.710 --> 00:14:32.549 his entire life so I went but I I respected his 00:14:32.549 --> 00:14:34.789 opinion. I went home. I read everything else 00:14:34.789 --> 00:14:37.309 in the book. I came back within the next couple 00:14:37.309 --> 00:14:39.169 days and I said no this is what I'm going to 00:14:39.169 --> 00:14:44.850 do and that's it. Sign me up. It's not that easy 00:14:44.850 --> 00:14:51.350 is it though? For me to make the decision was 00:14:51.350 --> 00:14:54.470 easy to go forward with it. Of course not. I 00:14:54.470 --> 00:14:59.909 was terrified. Here's the funny thing or the 00:14:59.909 --> 00:15:02.919 interesting thing about why people don't do things 00:15:02.919 --> 00:15:06.120 is because they're afraid of the unknown and 00:15:06.120 --> 00:15:09.039 they're afraid of failure. And of course I was, 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:11.559 I was afraid of the unknown and I've never been 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:13.399 out of Pennsylvania. I didn't know anything about 00:15:13.399 --> 00:15:15.539 anything at 17 years old, joined in the Navy. 00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:18.519 And then I picked probably the hardest job in 00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:22.940 the Navy to do, physically at least. And I was 00:15:22.940 --> 00:15:27.059 afraid, but that's... That's life. Everything 00:15:27.059 --> 00:15:29.340 is a challenge and especially the things that 00:15:29.340 --> 00:15:32.200 you don't know that you can accomplish is even 00:15:32.200 --> 00:15:34.679 more of a challenge. But that shouldn't stop 00:15:34.679 --> 00:15:37.679 you. You have a phrase in here which I wrote 00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:40.120 down and I want you to expand on a little bit 00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:44.679 about the loss, the battle within the prison 00:15:44.679 --> 00:15:49.019 of the mind. It's an interesting concept because 00:15:49.019 --> 00:15:52.980 it goes back to what you just said about Being 00:15:52.980 --> 00:15:54.940 afraid to try something because I already figured 00:15:54.940 --> 00:15:57.179 I've already convinced myself. I can't do that, 00:15:57.240 --> 00:16:03.620 right Yes Absolutely, and that's that's the that's 00:16:03.620 --> 00:16:07.860 the first hurdle to the as you The first step 00:16:07.860 --> 00:16:11.120 on the yellow brick road, right? You can't go 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:14.100 get to anywhere if you don't get that out of 00:16:14.100 --> 00:16:17.500 that to get over the challenge in your own mind 00:16:17.500 --> 00:16:19.960 that there's a possibility that you could succeed 00:16:19.960 --> 00:16:25.509 and there's plenty of examples I use but for 00:16:25.509 --> 00:16:28.450 me when I was for instance in going through SEAL 00:16:28.450 --> 00:16:33.230 training my biggest challenge was running I was 00:16:33.230 --> 00:16:36.669 a very slow runner my inseam is 28 you know so 00:16:36.669 --> 00:16:40.549 you got a step twice as much to get to the tall 00:16:40.549 --> 00:16:44.590 guy at 6 '2 Exactly I'm practically in a sprint 00:16:44.590 --> 00:16:47.269 the whole time when they're jogging and so I 00:16:47.269 --> 00:16:50.629 fell behind often and often and they did all 00:16:50.629 --> 00:16:52.669 kinds of it's called the goon squad they made 00:16:52.669 --> 00:16:54.990 me do all these crazy exercises and all the guys 00:16:54.990 --> 00:16:56.789 that fell behind were in the goon squad until 00:16:56.789 --> 00:17:00.250 finally I was on a run and I felt was falling 00:17:00.250 --> 00:17:04.109 behind again and and this was the do -or -die 00:17:04.109 --> 00:17:07.549 situation for me in SEAL training is I was either 00:17:07.549 --> 00:17:11.940 going to catch up and be the person that I needed 00:17:11.940 --> 00:17:15.039 to be in order to succeed or I was going to quit 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:19.019 and I was going to fail and as I mentioned that 00:17:19.019 --> 00:17:23.960 is not in my vocabulary even then and so I had 00:17:23.960 --> 00:17:26.460 this I want to say it is outer body experience 00:17:26.460 --> 00:17:28.680 where I just couldn't even feel my body anymore 00:17:28.680 --> 00:17:31.640 I convinced myself I was going to physically 00:17:31.640 --> 00:17:34.599 be able to catch up with them and I did and I 00:17:34.599 --> 00:17:38.410 caught up with the group and So we go back to 00:17:38.410 --> 00:17:41.529 what you just mentioned. How do you unlock the 00:17:41.529 --> 00:17:44.369 limitations in your own mind that you can't do 00:17:44.369 --> 00:17:47.130 something? And when you're faced with something 00:17:47.130 --> 00:17:49.349 like a life or death situation that I felt I 00:17:49.349 --> 00:17:52.970 was in, that's when the true colors come out. 00:17:53.769 --> 00:17:59.150 The other thing buried in that story is having, 00:17:59.970 --> 00:18:03.470 and mentor may be too strong a word, but having 00:18:03.470 --> 00:18:06.809 somebody again who has faith in you, who can 00:18:06.809 --> 00:18:11.190 tell you tricks of the trade, which is one of 00:18:11.190 --> 00:18:13.690 the things you got about how to run in sand, 00:18:14.029 --> 00:18:17.029 and I really thought like, there's somebody who's 00:18:17.029 --> 00:18:20.650 trying to help you, even though they're a pretty 00:18:20.650 --> 00:18:25.710 rough exterior, talk a little bit about how that 00:18:25.710 --> 00:18:29.920 helped keep you moving through the process. I 00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:32.599 was very lucky to have a mentor when I checked 00:18:32.599 --> 00:18:36.339 into SEAL training. And he was another guy, short 00:18:36.339 --> 00:18:40.420 guy, about five, six. His name was Senior Chief 00:18:40.420 --> 00:18:45.539 Cassini, Filipino. And he took me aside from 00:18:45.539 --> 00:18:48.119 the very first day and said, you know, Dave. 00:18:48.779 --> 00:18:51.660 Brown, this is how you're going to have to, what 00:18:51.660 --> 00:18:53.599 you're going to have to do in order to make it 00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:56.180 through training. And as I said, I didn't know 00:18:56.180 --> 00:18:58.720 anything about SEAL training. And so he was there 00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:03.660 to show me how to do the exercises, how to run 00:19:03.660 --> 00:19:05.839 in soft sand. And he actually took me out and 00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:10.730 he worked with me for a few weeks. checked into 00:19:10.730 --> 00:19:13.049 training a couple weeks early so I had a little 00:19:13.049 --> 00:19:15.529 bit of time for him to show me how to do things 00:19:15.529 --> 00:19:19.210 because as you mentioned there are nuances to 00:19:19.210 --> 00:19:23.789 everything that can make it easier in a way that 00:19:23.789 --> 00:19:25.710 you can get through if he wasn't there to show 00:19:25.710 --> 00:19:27.569 me all the little nuances like you said like 00:19:27.569 --> 00:19:30.589 running in soft sand step in the step in the 00:19:30.589 --> 00:19:33.089 marks of the person in front of you run in the 00:19:33.089 --> 00:19:37.240 first run in the person's footsteps What that 00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:39.779 did, I mean, physically, it may be lengthening 00:19:39.779 --> 00:19:42.619 my stride, right? So number one, that helped. 00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:46.539 But mentally, when you're running in the footprints 00:19:46.539 --> 00:19:49.779 of the person that's making it and succeeding, 00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:54.500 that actually is that momentum is pulling you 00:19:54.500 --> 00:19:57.799 forward and instead of you pushing yourself. 00:19:57.980 --> 00:20:00.240 Well, and I think that again that's one of when 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:02.200 you read this book, it's really about the human 00:20:02.200 --> 00:20:05.960 condition The book is titled and Goliath by David 00:20:05.960 --> 00:20:11.380 Brown It it focuses you on some you know sort 00:20:11.380 --> 00:20:14.539 of basic rules of life and one is don't be afraid 00:20:14.539 --> 00:20:17.900 to take a little help and There's always a nuance. 00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:20.900 There's always the people before you have always 00:20:20.900 --> 00:20:24.710 learned a way to get through it You know glean 00:20:24.710 --> 00:20:27.150 some information to them and your journey will 00:20:27.150 --> 00:20:31.230 be a little easier won't it? Absolutely and you're 00:20:31.230 --> 00:20:34.069 very lucky if you can have that type of mentor 00:20:34.069 --> 00:20:37.730 and I tried to be that person throughout the 00:20:37.730 --> 00:20:41.009 rest of my career helping the people that I hired 00:20:41.009 --> 00:20:44.829 and as special agents and investigators and I 00:20:44.829 --> 00:20:48.470 always told everyone even the first day I was 00:20:48.470 --> 00:20:50.349 hired them I'd bring them in my office and say 00:20:50.349 --> 00:20:53.450 look I hired you because I feel you have the 00:20:53.450 --> 00:20:56.710 ability to replace me and that's my job is to 00:20:56.710 --> 00:20:59.869 make you good enough to be able to take my job. 00:21:01.190 --> 00:21:03.529 You have a couple of other phrases in here that 00:21:03.529 --> 00:21:06.470 that I wrote down because I think they help everybody 00:21:06.470 --> 00:21:11.690 understand things. One was bad never lasts forever. 00:21:12.850 --> 00:21:16.089 And that's important to link back up to the prisoner 00:21:16.089 --> 00:21:18.690 of the mind, right? The games that's going on 00:21:18.690 --> 00:21:21.710 inside your own brain, like, I'll never get through 00:21:21.710 --> 00:21:24.690 this, it's horrible, this is a bad situation, 00:21:24.789 --> 00:21:29.329 but it doesn't last forever, does it? No, it 00:21:29.329 --> 00:21:32.730 doesn't. And in training, budge training, the 00:21:32.730 --> 00:21:36.049 way you get through six months of hell is you 00:21:36.049 --> 00:21:38.970 break it down into what we called evolutions. 00:21:39.390 --> 00:21:42.559 And there were many evolutions in in the day, 00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:47.200 some worse than others, but we always knew mentally 00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:50.440 that that particular evolution was going to end, 00:21:50.700 --> 00:21:53.220 no matter how cold it was, no matter how hot, 00:21:54.099 --> 00:21:58.500 nasty, wet, that when the clock reached noon 00:21:58.500 --> 00:22:02.599 or whatever, one, two o 'clock, when that time 00:22:02.599 --> 00:22:07.579 ended, the bad was going to be over. survive 00:22:07.579 --> 00:22:10.079 that evolution and then then you went on to the 00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:12.259 next evolution and then the next one but if you 00:22:12.259 --> 00:22:15.660 put them all together it was this giant ball 00:22:15.660 --> 00:22:20.839 of of of drama that you could never get out from 00:22:20.839 --> 00:22:23.099 underneath knowing that you were going to have 00:22:23.099 --> 00:22:26.640 to survive six months of what you were enduring 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:29.299 at that moment you had to know that it was going 00:22:29.299 --> 00:22:34.279 to end and just endure the moment don't get too 00:22:34.279 --> 00:22:36.700 far ahead of yourself And again, this is one 00:22:36.700 --> 00:22:38.920 of these life lessons on the human condition. 00:22:39.579 --> 00:22:43.019 Right now may not be great, but don't let your 00:22:43.019 --> 00:22:47.359 mind spin out so far out you can't get through 00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:50.279 it. You've got to get through the evolution as 00:22:50.279 --> 00:22:52.579 you talk about sucking up and get through the 00:22:52.579 --> 00:22:55.119 evolution. Now, we're going to run out of time 00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:57.559 and this always happens to me because I really 00:22:57.559 --> 00:22:59.559 enjoyed this book and all the little wisdom in 00:22:59.559 --> 00:23:02.950 it. But you were in the SEALs. You were in the 00:23:02.950 --> 00:23:05.809 Navy for, I think, about seven, eight years. 00:23:07.309 --> 00:23:09.609 You then went into law enforcement. You were 00:23:09.609 --> 00:23:12.930 a special agent with the National Criminal Investigative 00:23:12.930 --> 00:23:18.250 Services, NCIS. I'm sure you must have been Mark 00:23:18.250 --> 00:23:21.329 Harmon's inspiration for the popular TV show. 00:23:22.509 --> 00:23:24.829 If you could have only got the royalties right. 00:23:25.890 --> 00:23:30.009 You then left NCIS and took a leadership position 00:23:30.009 --> 00:23:33.210 at the Environmental Protection Agency's Criminal 00:23:33.210 --> 00:23:39.069 Investigative Division, or CID. So from a scrawny 00:23:39.069 --> 00:23:42.609 little kid in Pennsylvania, this isn't a life 00:23:42.609 --> 00:23:47.029 you could have ever imagined, was it? No, not 00:23:47.029 --> 00:23:49.630 at all. When I got out of the Navy, I remember 00:23:49.630 --> 00:23:53.329 saying if I could just make $30 ,000 a year I 00:23:53.329 --> 00:23:58.930 would be set and I could retire. Now it won't 00:23:58.930 --> 00:24:04.569 buy a car. I said to myself I'm gonna get my 00:24:04.569 --> 00:24:06.329 college degree when I was in the Navy and I did 00:24:06.329 --> 00:24:09.230 I went to night school and I got my degree and 00:24:09.230 --> 00:24:13.609 I was gonna get out of the Navy and wear a suit 00:24:13.609 --> 00:24:17.369 and carry a gun was what I used to say and so 00:24:17.369 --> 00:24:22.000 I did that I went out and With the same fervor 00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:25.180 as going to become a Navy SEAL, I attacked being 00:24:25.180 --> 00:24:29.339 a special agent, and I think I did really well. 00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:33.039 In the end, I advanced through the ranks from, 00:24:33.619 --> 00:24:37.259 in the government terms, GS -7 pay grade all 00:24:37.259 --> 00:24:40.819 the way to where I retired as a senior executive. 00:24:43.700 --> 00:24:46.940 And part of this is I want to get across to people 00:24:46.940 --> 00:24:50.799 and you'll David's very candid in the book. There's 00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:53.680 a lot of heartbreak along the way, both personal, 00:24:54.579 --> 00:25:00.779 marriage -wise, and all of that's in all of our 00:25:00.779 --> 00:25:03.900 lives, but some of the things you earned early 00:25:03.900 --> 00:25:09.259 on in your life, pre -Navy, during the sealed 00:25:09.259 --> 00:25:12.799 time, I suspect those lessons helped you get 00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:17.720 through the hard times in the rest of life. Absolutely. 00:25:18.420 --> 00:25:21.579 There are physical challenge and then there are 00:25:21.579 --> 00:25:24.539 personal challenges and mental challenges and 00:25:24.539 --> 00:25:28.759 I don't know which is more difficult as I mentioned 00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:30.480 at you know certainly the beginning of the book 00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:35.140 there's a death and I say something to the effect 00:25:35.140 --> 00:25:40.279 that nothing I had experienced in the Navy or 00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:44.200 in budge training or as a special agent prepared 00:25:44.200 --> 00:25:49.720 me to deal with the death. And that was hard. 00:25:49.880 --> 00:25:52.380 It was hard. And it really took me to go back 00:25:52.380 --> 00:25:56.140 and remember the situations that I had faced, 00:25:56.140 --> 00:25:58.319 the difficult ones, and said, well, if I can 00:25:58.319 --> 00:26:00.400 get through that, I can get through this. As 00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:03.359 we mentioned, it's another evolution. It's not 00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:07.660 the most pleasant, but it's just another evolution 00:26:07.660 --> 00:26:12.200 in life. Well, David Brown, you've had a great 00:26:12.200 --> 00:26:18.259 career path. I think it's inspirational The story 00:26:18.259 --> 00:26:22.220 and Goliath is available from all Booksellers 00:26:22.220 --> 00:26:25.079 online and elsewhere and I really think it's 00:26:25.079 --> 00:26:28.819 useful a useful read for those who may be struggling 00:26:28.819 --> 00:26:31.400 or have family members or friends who are struggling 00:26:31.400 --> 00:26:35.720 with sort of all the outside negativity they 00:26:35.720 --> 00:26:38.599 get about you can't do this, you can't do that, 00:26:38.819 --> 00:26:42.079 you do this, you do that. There's a lot of wisdom 00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:45.099 in here, and I think you did a great job of bringing 00:26:45.099 --> 00:26:51.079 that forward in. And Goliath, which is a, oh, 00:26:51.099 --> 00:26:55.259 I had it here somewhere. Double Dagger is the 00:26:55.259 --> 00:27:00.309 publisher, I believe. Yes. Well, thank you for 00:27:00.309 --> 00:27:02.930 spending some time with Veterans Radio today, 00:27:03.029 --> 00:27:06.789 David, and wish you nothing but best of luck 00:27:06.789 --> 00:27:10.509 on the book and in the future. Thank you for 00:27:10.509 --> 00:27:12.849 having me and shout out to all the veterans, 00:27:13.009 --> 00:27:15.529 all the great job you do out there. It's a safer 00:27:15.529 --> 00:27:19.289 world because of you. And I want to thank everybody 00:27:19.289 --> 00:27:22.130 for listening to Veterans Radio today. I am Jim 00:27:22.130 --> 00:27:25.019 Fossone. 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