WEBVTT 00:00:05.160 --> 00:00:08.980 All across America and around the world, this 00:00:08.980 --> 00:00:15.119 is Veterans Radio. This is Veterans Radio. Good 00:00:15.119 --> 00:00:18.600 day. I'm Jim Fossone. I'm the Officer of the 00:00:18.600 --> 00:00:20.699 Deck today here on Veterans Radio and thanks 00:00:20.699 --> 00:00:23.469 for joining us. We've got some interesting stories 00:00:23.469 --> 00:00:25.649 for you. We always want to remind you, you can 00:00:25.649 --> 00:00:28.750 find more about Veterans Radio at its Facebook 00:00:28.750 --> 00:00:32.429 site or at the web, veteransradio .org, where 00:00:32.429 --> 00:00:35.250 we're on the web 24 -7. You can find a lot of 00:00:35.250 --> 00:00:38.310 our podcasts there as well. We post new ones 00:00:38.310 --> 00:00:42.490 every Tuesday, so you can get a new story, a 00:00:42.490 --> 00:00:45.229 new interview, something you didn't know before 00:00:45.229 --> 00:00:49.210 by going to veteransradio .org. 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It provides water 00:01:38.760 --> 00:01:42.019 damage remediation, flood water removal, fire 00:01:42.019 --> 00:01:45.840 and smoke damage remediation, mold removal, biohazard 00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:50.900 cleanup. It also has a focus on veteran franchisees. 00:01:51.319 --> 00:01:54.359 You can learn more about them by going to PuroClean 00:01:54.359 --> 00:01:57.659 .com. The story we're going to bring you today 00:01:57.659 --> 00:02:01.379 reaches all the way back to the Civil War. It's 00:02:01.379 --> 00:02:04.840 the escape from the Confederate prison known 00:02:04.840 --> 00:02:09.099 as Libby Prison. An incredible story. The story 00:02:09.099 --> 00:02:13.979 is actually brought to us by an affiliate, homeofheroes 00:02:13.979 --> 00:02:18.080 .com, which tells the stories of American heroes, 00:02:18.719 --> 00:02:21.360 Medal of Honor winners, Silver Stars. So if you 00:02:21.360 --> 00:02:25.800 go to homeofheroes .com, click on Heroes Stories. 00:02:26.060 --> 00:02:28.819 For this one, go down to the Civil War. There's 00:02:28.819 --> 00:02:31.539 stories from every conflict. And when you scroll 00:02:31.539 --> 00:02:34.840 through that, you'll find the Escaping from Libby 00:02:34.840 --> 00:02:38.680 Prison. It's an amazing story of resilience. 00:02:40.900 --> 00:02:44.680 determination, some good luck, some bad luck. 00:02:44.759 --> 00:02:48.620 I think you'll find it interesting and honestly 00:02:48.620 --> 00:02:53.460 the interview here doesn't do the written word 00:02:53.460 --> 00:02:56.460 justice, often times like movies aren't as good 00:02:56.460 --> 00:03:00.800 as the book. So go ahead and go to homeofheroes 00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:04.960 .com, click on hero stories, go down to the Civil 00:03:04.960 --> 00:03:07.840 War and read about escaping from Libby prison. 00:03:08.159 --> 00:03:11.020 It's a short story, and I think you'll find it 00:03:11.020 --> 00:03:13.759 very interesting. All right, get ready, because 00:03:13.759 --> 00:03:17.139 today we're going deep into one of the most unbelievable 00:03:17.139 --> 00:03:19.960 prison breaks in American history. We're talking 00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:22.639 about the mass escape from Libby Prison during 00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:25.840 the Civil War. It's really incredible when you 00:03:25.840 --> 00:03:27.599 consider this all happened at Libby Prison. It 00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:30.939 was originally just a tobacco warehouse. Oh, 00:03:30.979 --> 00:03:33.560 wow, really? Yeah, in Richmond, Virginia. And 00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:36.740 then they converted it to hold union officers 00:03:36.740 --> 00:03:39.939 during the war. A tobacco warehouse turned prison. 00:03:40.919 --> 00:03:44.740 Oh man. That's something else. I can only imagine 00:03:44.740 --> 00:03:46.560 the smell. And it wasn't like, you know, a couple 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:48.139 guys sneaking out. We're talking about a huge 00:03:48.139 --> 00:03:50.520 escape. Over a hundred prisoners who dug their 00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:54.460 way out. Wow. That's why it's a story of resilience 00:03:54.460 --> 00:03:57.080 for sure and just sheer determination. So paint 00:03:57.080 --> 00:03:59.259 a picture for us What were the conditions actually 00:03:59.259 --> 00:04:01.379 like in Libby prison? What made these men so 00:04:01.379 --> 00:04:04.479 desperate to escape? Well Libby prison was notoriously 00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:06.919 overcrowded There was basically no sanitation 00:04:06.919 --> 00:04:09.620 food and medical care were scarce disease was 00:04:09.620 --> 00:04:11.740 everywhere So it was essentially a fight for 00:04:11.740 --> 00:04:14.210 survival every day Oh, absolutely. And you have 00:04:14.210 --> 00:04:16.730 to remember the Geneva Convention. Well, that 00:04:16.730 --> 00:04:18.790 wasn't established until after the Civil War. 00:04:18.930 --> 00:04:21.509 So the treatment of prisoners of war, it was 00:04:21.509 --> 00:04:23.610 pretty much up to whoever captured them. So they 00:04:23.610 --> 00:04:25.569 were really at the mercy of their captors. Right. 00:04:25.730 --> 00:04:28.970 Exactly. And then on top of all that. The South 00:04:28.970 --> 00:04:31.569 was facing increasing isolation because of the 00:04:31.569 --> 00:04:34.449 union blockades. Right. Resources were already 00:04:34.449 --> 00:04:36.610 stretched then. Just taking care of their own 00:04:36.610 --> 00:04:38.430 population was tough. So you can imagine what 00:04:38.430 --> 00:04:41.189 that meant for the prisoners of war. I bet. And 00:04:41.189 --> 00:04:43.310 I also read that there were rumors going around 00:04:43.310 --> 00:04:45.589 that the Confederates were considering moving 00:04:45.589 --> 00:04:48.209 the prisoners further south. That's right. Some 00:04:48.209 --> 00:04:50.430 even said they might get sent to Andersonville. 00:04:50.569 --> 00:04:52.170 And Andersonville, just for our listeners who 00:04:52.170 --> 00:04:54.170 maybe haven't heard of it, it was another Confederate 00:04:54.170 --> 00:04:57.730 prison. But with a seriously bad reputation. 00:04:58.050 --> 00:05:00.629 Oh, yeah. Andersonville was notorious. The conditions 00:05:00.629 --> 00:05:02.189 there, they were known to be even worse than 00:05:02.189 --> 00:05:05.990 Libby. So, yeah, I can imagine that rumor definitely 00:05:05.990 --> 00:05:08.290 added to the urgency of any escape plans. Oh, 00:05:08.290 --> 00:05:11.029 for sure. So in the middle of all this, you know, 00:05:11.089 --> 00:05:14.110 this chaos and fear, you have Colonel Thomas 00:05:14.110 --> 00:05:16.889 Rose. Yeah, he's fascinating. He was a lawyer 00:05:16.889 --> 00:05:19.670 and a teacher before the war. Not exactly who 00:05:19.670 --> 00:05:22.769 you picture as a daring escape artist. No, not 00:05:22.769 --> 00:05:26.220 at all. But once he was in Libby, he became totally 00:05:26.220 --> 00:05:29.000 fixated on the idea of escaping. He was just 00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:31.040 incredibly observant. You know, he noticed things 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:33.699 that other people missed. For example, he saw 00:05:33.699 --> 00:05:35.939 how close the prison was to the James River, 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:38.740 and he figured there had to be a sewer system 00:05:38.740 --> 00:05:41.319 running underneath. So he saw opportunity where 00:05:41.319 --> 00:05:44.300 others just saw confinement. I like that. Yeah. 00:05:44.540 --> 00:05:46.720 But obviously, planning and executing a mass 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:49.740 escape from a Confederate prison, you need more 00:05:49.740 --> 00:05:51.920 than just observation, right? Right. You need 00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:54.519 a team. Exactly. He knew he couldn't do it alone. 00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:57.500 That's where Major Alexander Hamilton comes in. 00:05:57.639 --> 00:06:00.199 Hamilton was a West Point grad and a seasoned 00:06:00.199 --> 00:06:03.240 soldier. He had that tactical experience that 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:05.699 Rose needed, you know, to actually turn the escape 00:06:05.699 --> 00:06:08.500 plan into reality. So Rose is the brains and 00:06:08.500 --> 00:06:10.959 Hamilton is the brawn. Yeah, you could say that. 00:06:11.100 --> 00:06:13.420 Reutens was more the mastermind, the strategist, 00:06:13.459 --> 00:06:15.699 and Hamilton brought, you know, the military 00:06:15.699 --> 00:06:17.279 knowledge and the leadership skills they needed 00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:19.740 to pull it off. Wow, what a team. OK, so tell 00:06:19.740 --> 00:06:22.819 us about the plan. Do they just like pick a spot 00:06:22.819 --> 00:06:24.860 and start digging? Well, you'd think it would 00:06:24.860 --> 00:06:26.839 be that simple, wouldn't you? Yeah. But it wasn't 00:06:26.839 --> 00:06:28.680 that easy. They didn't just dig one tunnel. They 00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:32.019 dug four. And the first three, well, let's just 00:06:32.019 --> 00:06:34.339 say they were learning experiences. Wait, four 00:06:34.339 --> 00:06:36.819 tunnels? Seriously? Yeah. What happened with 00:06:36.819 --> 00:06:39.660 the first three? So believe it or not, the first 00:06:39.660 --> 00:06:41.800 tunnel they dug, it was actually successful. 00:06:42.620 --> 00:06:45.480 What? Yeah, they made it to the other side. Oh. 00:06:45.480 --> 00:06:47.959 But they didn't quite do their calculations right. 00:06:48.060 --> 00:06:52.139 They emerged. Right into a heavily guarded area. 00:06:52.220 --> 00:06:55.339 Oh so close. Yeah, talk about a close call I 00:06:55.339 --> 00:06:57.660 can only imagine the disappointment all that 00:06:57.660 --> 00:06:59.939 work and they end up right back where they started 00:06:59.939 --> 00:07:02.339 almost in the arms of the guards But they didn't 00:07:02.339 --> 00:07:05.240 give up the second attempt was foiled when some 00:07:05.240 --> 00:07:06.959 Confederate guards got suspicious and started 00:07:06.959 --> 00:07:10.420 poking around and their third tunnel Well, it 00:07:10.420 --> 00:07:13.100 flooded. Oh, they had to abandon it before they 00:07:13.100 --> 00:07:16.040 all drowned Wow, so many setbacks. It's amazing. 00:07:16.079 --> 00:07:18.339 They didn't just give up hope They were determined. 00:07:18.519 --> 00:07:20.839 You know, each failed attempt. They learned something 00:07:20.839 --> 00:07:23.819 new. Their techniques got more refined. They 00:07:23.819 --> 00:07:26.019 were more careful in their planning. They had 00:07:26.019 --> 00:07:28.420 to be. The stakes were so high. Absolutely. So 00:07:28.420 --> 00:07:30.240 what was different about the fourth tunnel? Well, 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:32.819 for one thing, they chose a new location. They 00:07:32.819 --> 00:07:34.899 started digging behind the kitchen fireplace. 00:07:35.339 --> 00:07:38.180 Interesting. Why there? Well, they figured the 00:07:38.180 --> 00:07:40.939 smoke and the soot would mask any suspicious 00:07:40.939 --> 00:07:43.680 smells. That's actually pretty smart. Right. 00:07:43.939 --> 00:07:47.040 But they were still digging in the dark. Literally, 00:07:47.480 --> 00:07:50.160 no maps, no surveying equipment. So how did they 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:52.500 even know where they were going? You know, that's 00:07:52.500 --> 00:07:54.980 where their ingenuity really shines. It was all 00:07:54.980 --> 00:07:58.180 instinct, careful observation, and a lot of trial 00:07:58.180 --> 00:07:59.959 and error. I bet the conditions down in those 00:07:59.959 --> 00:08:02.259 tunnels must have been just terrifying. Oh, absolutely. 00:08:02.509 --> 00:08:05.649 pitch black, cramped, the air was thick with 00:08:05.649 --> 00:08:08.810 dust and the smell of decay. They were constantly 00:08:08.810 --> 00:08:11.110 worried about cave -ins, running out of oxygen, 00:08:11.290 --> 00:08:13.250 and, of course, being discovered by the guards. 00:08:13.329 --> 00:08:15.790 And I imagine they were rats. Oh, yeah, the rats. 00:08:15.870 --> 00:08:19.629 Can you imagine? Surrounded by rats in a dark, 00:08:19.850 --> 00:08:22.149 cramped tunnel. I'd rather not. It's like a nightmare. 00:08:22.250 --> 00:08:24.410 Total nightmare. And on top of that, they had 00:08:24.410 --> 00:08:26.389 to get rid of all the dirt from the tunnel without 00:08:26.389 --> 00:08:28.410 anyone noticing. That's a good point. Where did 00:08:28.410 --> 00:08:30.129 they put all the dirt? Well, they had to get 00:08:30.129 --> 00:08:32.149 creative. They'd sprinkle it under the floorboards. 00:08:32.250 --> 00:08:34.070 They'd mix it in with their bedding, even smuggle 00:08:34.070 --> 00:08:36.830 it out in their pockets. Wow. I bet the guards 00:08:36.830 --> 00:08:38.909 were wondering why everyone was sleeping so soundly 00:08:38.909 --> 00:08:41.429 all of a sudden, huh? Right. OK, but here's what 00:08:41.429 --> 00:08:45.669 gets me. I read they used this rope system for 00:08:45.669 --> 00:08:48.090 communication while they were digging. Oh, yeah. 00:08:48.730 --> 00:08:51.070 That's incredible. Rose and Hamilton, they would 00:08:51.070 --> 00:08:53.389 tug on the rope to signal to each other, like 00:08:53.389 --> 00:08:56.820 a primitive telegraph. That's so cool. OK, so 00:08:56.820 --> 00:08:59.519 after weeks of this back breaking work, the fourth 00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:03.299 panel, it finally reaches the destination. What 00:09:03.299 --> 00:09:06.600 happened on the night of the escape? So it's 00:09:06.600 --> 00:09:11.519 the night of February 9th, 1864, cold, dark night, 00:09:11.639 --> 00:09:14.179 the perfect cover. It must have been so intense 00:09:14.179 --> 00:09:16.779 after all those setbacks. They were finally about 00:09:16.779 --> 00:09:19.500 to make their move. Oh, yeah. The tension, the 00:09:19.500 --> 00:09:22.700 nerves. This was it. They're one shot. They organized 00:09:22.700 --> 00:09:25.639 themselves into groups of 15. Each group had 00:09:25.639 --> 00:09:28.539 a specific time to enter the tunnel. So they 00:09:28.539 --> 00:09:30.580 weren't all rushing out at once. Exactly. They 00:09:30.580 --> 00:09:33.639 had to be quiet. Any noise could alert the guards. 00:09:34.840 --> 00:09:37.340 Crawling through that narrow, damp tunnel, it 00:09:37.340 --> 00:09:40.840 must have felt like forever. And the fear. Every 00:09:40.840 --> 00:09:42.740 little sound must have been terrifying. What 00:09:42.740 --> 00:09:44.700 if they were discovered at the last minute? Oh, 00:09:44.759 --> 00:09:47.179 the psychological pressure must have been immense. 00:09:47.519 --> 00:09:50.659 But they kept going, driven by, you know, that 00:09:50.659 --> 00:09:53.070 hope at the end of the tunnel. both literally 00:09:53.070 --> 00:09:55.870 and figuratively. Right. It took hours to get 00:09:55.870 --> 00:09:58.169 everyone through. How long are we talking? Five 00:09:58.169 --> 00:10:01.029 hours. Just imagine crawling through a tunnel 00:10:01.029 --> 00:10:03.470 for five hours. It's hard to even imagine. And 00:10:03.470 --> 00:10:05.389 don't forget, these men were already weakened 00:10:05.389 --> 00:10:07.730 by their time in Libby. They hadn't been eating 00:10:07.730 --> 00:10:10.769 properly. They were exhausted. Yeah, and so many 00:10:10.769 --> 00:10:13.509 were sick, too. It really is a testament to their 00:10:13.509 --> 00:10:15.850 endurance, both mental and physical. Absolutely. 00:10:16.070 --> 00:10:19.409 So they emerge from the tunnel after those grueling 00:10:19.409 --> 00:10:23.039 five hours. What happens next? Where do they 00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:25.720 go? How do they avoid the Confederate guards? 00:10:26.139 --> 00:10:27.720 Well, that's where things get even more interesting. 00:10:27.740 --> 00:10:29.720 And that's a story for part two of our deep dive. 00:10:29.740 --> 00:10:32.860 I can't wait. So picture this. One hundred and 00:10:32.860 --> 00:10:36.340 nine Union soldiers. After five hours crawling 00:10:36.340 --> 00:10:39.100 through a tunnel, they finally emerge into the 00:10:39.100 --> 00:10:41.759 fresh air. Yeah. Blinking in the moonlight. It 00:10:41.759 --> 00:10:43.580 must have been such a surreal experience, you 00:10:43.580 --> 00:10:47.419 know. Oh, going from that darkness into the open 00:10:47.419 --> 00:10:49.740 night sky. It's like total sensory overload. 00:10:49.899 --> 00:10:51.820 But, you know, it wasn't exactly a moment for 00:10:51.820 --> 00:10:54.320 celebration. Right. I mean, they were still surrounded 00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:56.639 by Confederate soldiers. Exactly. They were still 00:10:56.639 --> 00:10:59.620 in enemy territory. Their plan was to scatter 00:10:59.620 --> 00:11:02.299 quickly. Hoping to just blend in with the darkness 00:11:02.299 --> 00:11:05.220 until they could reach Union lines. Yeah. And 00:11:05.220 --> 00:11:07.259 when you think about it, it was a pretty risky 00:11:07.259 --> 00:11:10.480 plan. Oh, yeah. These weren't, you know, trained 00:11:10.480 --> 00:11:12.580 spies or anything. No, they were soldiers who'd 00:11:12.580 --> 00:11:15.559 been held captive, weakened. Many of them were 00:11:15.559 --> 00:11:18.240 probably disoriented after that tunnel experience. 00:11:18.419 --> 00:11:20.179 So they were really relying on their instincts 00:11:20.179 --> 00:11:22.340 and a lot of luck. Pretty much. It was a gamble, 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:24.659 but they didn't have many options. So how do 00:11:24.659 --> 00:11:28.159 they do? Well, out of those 109 escapees, 59 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:30.700 actually made it back to Union Lines. Wow, that's 00:11:30.700 --> 00:11:32.519 incredible. It really is. Considering everything 00:11:32.519 --> 00:11:35.059 they went through, it's a testament to how resilient 00:11:35.059 --> 00:11:37.179 these guys were. Yeah, talk about determination. 00:11:37.740 --> 00:11:39.870 But of course, there were tragedies too. Many 00:11:39.870 --> 00:11:43.509 of them were recaptured, and some faced pretty 00:11:43.509 --> 00:11:45.789 harsh punishments for escaping. I can't imagine 00:11:45.789 --> 00:11:48.389 how crushing it must have been to be so close 00:11:48.389 --> 00:11:51.250 to freedom only to be dragged back to that prison. 00:11:51.669 --> 00:11:54.470 It's a reminder that even in a moment of triumph, 00:11:54.750 --> 00:11:58.049 there's always that shadow of loss. Definitely. 00:11:58.570 --> 00:12:00.490 So there's one person we haven't mentioned yet 00:12:00.490 --> 00:12:02.950 who actually played a crucial role in this escape, 00:12:03.669 --> 00:12:06.480 Elizabeth Van Loo. Oh, yes, Elizabeth Van Lew. 00:12:06.519 --> 00:12:10.539 She's like an unsung hero of the Civil War. Tell 00:12:10.539 --> 00:12:13.320 us about her. So she was a Richmond socialite, 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:16.120 but she was secretly spying for the Union. Wow, 00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:18.639 like a real life spy. Right. Operating right 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:21.440 under the noses of the Confederacy. And she was 00:12:21.440 --> 00:12:23.480 actually instrumental in helping some of those 00:12:23.480 --> 00:12:26.240 escapees. How so? She provided them with food, 00:12:26.659 --> 00:12:29.460 shelter, you know, helped them navigate the unfamiliar 00:12:29.460 --> 00:12:31.279 territory. It's amazing she was willing to take 00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:33.929 those risks. Yeah. If she'd been caught, she 00:12:33.929 --> 00:12:36.250 could have been imprisoned, maybe even executed. 00:12:36.350 --> 00:12:39.669 She was incredibly brave. I think her story deserves 00:12:39.669 --> 00:12:42.970 its own deep dive. I agree. But for now, let's 00:12:42.970 --> 00:12:45.769 get back to the escapees. What happened to the 00:12:45.769 --> 00:12:48.669 ones who did make it back to Union lines? Yeah. 00:12:49.049 --> 00:12:51.490 What was the impact of their escape? Well, it 00:12:51.490 --> 00:12:54.460 was a huge morale boost for the Union. A real 00:12:54.460 --> 00:12:57.720 victory, even if it was symbolic, it showed that 00:12:57.720 --> 00:13:00.139 even in captivity, their soldiers were still 00:13:00.139 --> 00:13:02.299 fighting for their cause. I bet it was a blow 00:13:02.299 --> 00:13:04.639 to the Confederacy, too. Oh, yeah. It showed 00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:07.240 how vulnerable their prison system was. And of 00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:09.299 course, they had to divert resources to try and 00:13:09.299 --> 00:13:11.159 recapture everyone. Yeah. And it must have been 00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:14.039 embarrassing to have so many prisoners escape 00:13:14.039 --> 00:13:16.259 from right under their noses. Totally. But the 00:13:16.259 --> 00:13:18.559 escape from Livy Prison had a wider impact, too. 00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:21.200 It wasn't just a military thing. It really affected 00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:24.110 how people viewed the war. Into what way? Well, 00:13:24.370 --> 00:13:27.070 you know, the story of the escape made headlines 00:13:27.070 --> 00:13:30.509 all over the country and it really brought the 00:13:30.509 --> 00:13:33.389 issue of prisoners of war to everyone's attention. 00:13:33.690 --> 00:13:35.929 So it wasn't just a concern for the North anymore? 00:13:36.309 --> 00:13:38.049 Right. Everyone was talking about it. And it 00:13:38.049 --> 00:13:39.809 forced people on both sides, you know, North 00:13:39.809 --> 00:13:43.049 and South, to acknowledge how badly those prisoners 00:13:43.049 --> 00:13:45.710 were being treated. It really sparked a national 00:13:45.710 --> 00:13:48.470 debate about, you know, what was ethical in war? 00:13:48.610 --> 00:13:50.950 How should prisoners be treated? Some people 00:13:50.950 --> 00:13:52.990 even say that the escape from Libby Prison played 00:13:52.990 --> 00:13:54.950 a part in, you know, the eventual development 00:13:54.950 --> 00:13:57.370 of the Geneva Convention. And the Geneva Convention, 00:13:57.470 --> 00:13:59.970 just to remind our listeners, they established 00:13:59.970 --> 00:14:02.610 those international standards for how prisoners 00:14:02.610 --> 00:14:05.000 of war should be treated. Right. And those standards 00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:06.840 are still used today. It's a pretty significant 00:14:06.840 --> 00:14:09.919 legacy. Absolutely. So the Libby prison escape, 00:14:10.299 --> 00:14:12.340 it wasn't just this daring feat. It was a real 00:14:12.340 --> 00:14:14.919 turning point in how we think about prisoners 00:14:14.919 --> 00:14:18.269 of war. Yeah. It shows how human ingenuity and 00:14:18.269 --> 00:14:20.889 compassion can, you know, prevail even in the 00:14:20.889 --> 00:14:24.190 darkest of times. But it also raises some important 00:14:24.190 --> 00:14:26.629 questions about war itself. Like what kind of 00:14:26.629 --> 00:14:29.149 questions? Well, how could a country that prides 00:14:29.149 --> 00:14:32.509 itself on, you know, liberty and justice, how 00:14:32.509 --> 00:14:34.789 could they allow such awful conditions in their 00:14:34.789 --> 00:14:37.590 prisons? It's a good point. Even when you're 00:14:37.590 --> 00:14:40.250 fighting for a good cause, the reality can be 00:14:40.250 --> 00:14:43.179 pretty ugly. Yeah. It makes you wonder if something 00:14:43.179 --> 00:14:45.200 like the Libby escape could even happen today. 00:14:45.399 --> 00:14:48.200 That is a good question. With all the technology 00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:51.259 and security we have now, could a group of prisoners 00:14:51.259 --> 00:14:53.559 pull off something like that? That's a question 00:14:53.559 --> 00:14:55.659 we'll explore in the final part of our deep dive. 00:14:56.120 --> 00:14:58.940 So, we've talked about how clever and strong 00:14:58.940 --> 00:15:00.879 these prisoners were, the terrible things they 00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:03.759 had to deal with, and the way their escape changed 00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:06.379 not only the war, but how we see prisoners of 00:15:06.379 --> 00:15:09.659 war even today. But you left us with a big question. 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:11.899 Couldn't escape like this even happen today, 00:15:12.460 --> 00:15:15.000 with all our fancy prisons and technology watching 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:16.799 everything? It really makes you think, doesn't 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:18.960 it? I mean, Colonel Rose and Major Hamilton, 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:21.159 they couldn't have imagined the kind of security 00:15:21.159 --> 00:15:24.200 we have now. Motion sensors and cameras everywhere, 00:15:24.759 --> 00:15:27.299 electronic locks, facial recognition software. 00:15:27.779 --> 00:15:30.700 Escaping from a prison today seems impossible. 00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:34.220 But then again, people are pretty smart. We find 00:15:34.220 --> 00:15:35.940 ways, don't we? I mean, look at all the hacking 00:15:35.940 --> 00:15:38.580 we hear about. Systems they thought were unbreakable, 00:15:38.860 --> 00:15:41.450 and someone finds a way in. Yeah, that's true. 00:15:41.730 --> 00:15:43.549 And think about it, those Libby prisoners, they 00:15:43.549 --> 00:15:46.049 didn't have fancy tools either. They used whatever 00:15:46.049 --> 00:15:48.850 they could find. It's hard to completely rule 00:15:48.850 --> 00:15:51.570 out human ingenuity, even with all the technology 00:15:51.570 --> 00:15:53.769 we have now. And there's always the human element 00:15:53.769 --> 00:15:56.690 too, right? Like guards who aren't paying attention, 00:15:56.909 --> 00:15:58.929 or a computer glitch that creates a weak spot, 00:15:59.389 --> 00:16:02.029 or even maybe someone on the inside helping to 00:16:02.029 --> 00:16:04.110 plan the escape. Those things happened back then, 00:16:04.129 --> 00:16:06.070 and I bet they still happen today. Oh, absolutely. 00:16:06.210 --> 00:16:08.529 No system is perfect. And whenever you have people 00:16:08.529 --> 00:16:11.049 involved, there's always room for mistakes or, 00:16:11.049 --> 00:16:13.830 you know, someone bending the rules or just plain 00:16:13.830 --> 00:16:16.809 bad luck. So maybe the question isn't could it 00:16:16.809 --> 00:16:20.450 happen, but how would it happen? Would someone 00:16:20.450 --> 00:16:24.230 use technology to break out? Or maybe trick people. 00:16:24.429 --> 00:16:26.629 Instead of computers. That's interesting. Maybe 00:16:26.629 --> 00:16:28.789 a modern escape wouldn't need shovels and tunnels 00:16:28.789 --> 00:16:31.269 Maybe it would be all about code or social media 00:16:31.269 --> 00:16:33.809 or even just like figuring out how to manipulate 00:16:33.809 --> 00:16:36.250 people so instead of breaking out with brute 00:16:36.250 --> 00:16:38.909 force would be more like You know one of those 00:16:38.909 --> 00:16:41.230 heist movies with all the clever plans and distractions 00:16:41.230 --> 00:16:44.049 Yeah, exactly the tools might change, but it's 00:16:44.049 --> 00:16:47.909 still about observation planning Execution all 00:16:47.909 --> 00:16:49.649 the things those prisoners did and I guess the 00:16:49.649 --> 00:16:53.440 biggest thing of all that desire to be free That 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:55.340 never goes away no matter what kind of technology 00:16:55.340 --> 00:16:57.620 you have. You're so right. What drove those Libby 00:16:57.620 --> 00:16:59.759 prisoners was that belief that they deserve to 00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:02.220 be free. And they were willing to risk everything 00:17:02.220 --> 00:17:05.039 to suffer just for a chance at that freedom. 00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:07.740 It's that kind of determination, that drive that 00:17:07.740 --> 00:17:10.559 can overcome anything, even the tightest security. 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:14.259 So as we wrap up our deep dive into this incredible 00:17:14.259 --> 00:17:16.319 story, I want to leave our listeners with one 00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:19.440 thought. The Libby prison escape isn't just history. 00:17:19.539 --> 00:17:22.809 It shows us what humans are capable of. Courage, 00:17:22.809 --> 00:17:25.690 creativity, never giving up. It reminds us that 00:17:25.690 --> 00:17:27.529 even when things are really bad, there's always 00:17:27.529 --> 00:17:30.130 hope. And freedom might be closer than we think 00:17:30.130 --> 00:17:31.869 if we're willing to fight for it. That's a great 00:17:31.869 --> 00:17:33.650 way to put it. And maybe it also makes us ask 00:17:33.650 --> 00:17:36.410 ourselves, what would we do if we faced a huge 00:17:36.410 --> 00:17:39.269 obstacle? Would we be as strong and clever as 00:17:39.269 --> 00:17:41.470 those prisoners? It's something to think about, 00:17:41.609 --> 00:17:43.490 not just about escaping prisons, but about how 00:17:43.490 --> 00:17:45.750 we face challenges in our own lives. Thanks for 00:17:45.750 --> 00:17:48.009 joining us on this journey, everyone. Until next 00:17:48.009 --> 00:17:50.500 time, keep exploring. keep asking questions, 00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:53.980 and never stop digging for knowledge. These stories 00:17:53.980 --> 00:17:57.720 of prisoners of war, doesn't matter what war, 00:17:58.400 --> 00:18:01.900 and the desire or will to escape to get back 00:18:01.900 --> 00:18:05.079 to freedom, to get back to their families, really 00:18:05.079 --> 00:18:07.299 is quite inspirational. And I think it's something 00:18:07.299 --> 00:18:10.680 we all kind of understand and wonder whether 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:14.640 or not would we have it in us if we were in that 00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:17.119 situation. So there's something to be gained 00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:20.480 from learning about these. efforts, even if we 00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:22.519 have to reach all the way back to the Civil War. 00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:24.279 Hope you enjoyed it. I know you didn't learn 00:18:24.279 --> 00:18:27.339 it in history class, so you get to at least learn 00:18:27.339 --> 00:18:30.700 it here on Veterans Radio. And I want to thank 00:18:30.700 --> 00:18:32.920 everybody for listening to Veterans Radio today. 00:18:33.019 --> 00:18:36.319 I am Jim Fossone. It's been a pleasure to be 00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:39.180 your host. I'm a veterans disability lawyer at 00:18:39.180 --> 00:18:41.599 Legal Help for Veterans and you can reach us 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:47.880 at 800 -693 -4800 or legalhelpforveterans .com 00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:50.839 on the web. You can follow Veterans Radio on 00:18:50.839 --> 00:18:53.839 Facebook and listen to its podcasts and internet 00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:58.359 radio shows by visiting us at veteransradio .org. 00:18:58.599 --> 00:19:02.380 That's veteransradio .org. We again want to thank 00:19:02.380 --> 00:19:05.519 our national sponsors, the National Veterans 00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:10.940 Business Development Council, nvbdc .org. 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