1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,960 All across America and around the world, this is Veterans Radio. 2 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:19,440 And now, your host for today's program, Dale Throneberry. 3 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:23,360 Hey, welcome to Veterans Radio. 4 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:25,560 My name is Dale Throneberry. 5 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,720 I'm a CW2 helicopter pilot in Vietnam. 6 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:30,640 I was a slick jockey. 7 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:32,640 And now, I'm welcoming you to our program today. 8 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,080 We're going to be talking about the Battle of the Bulge. 9 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:36,560 It's the 80th anniversary. 10 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,320 It's incredible how time flies. 11 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:44,480 Unfortunately, we have a lot of difficulty trying to find any survivors in the Battle 12 00:00:44,480 --> 00:00:46,600 of the Bulge to be on the program today. 13 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:50,000 But we got a few stories that we're going to be telling. 14 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,320 We've got a couple of guests today. 15 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,360 One is Bob O'Connor. 16 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:58,880 And those of you that were listening to our program back in November, he wrote the book 17 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:00,320 The Jeep Show. 18 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,240 And he also did a lot of research on the Battle of the Bulge. 19 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:07,360 So he'll be joining us with some anecdotal stories about what occurred. 20 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:10,920 I've got Kevin Himmel is also going to be on. 21 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:15,680 And Kevin is a historian, a writer for the United States Army. 22 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:20,040 And he'd been on our program with Bob Gould. 23 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:26,560 Back in 2014 and 2017, talking about the Battle of the Bulge and, of course, the role that 24 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:28,560 George Patton had in it. 25 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,880 So hopefully, Kevin will be able to join us in a little bit. 26 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:36,240 He's actually on another broadcast right now. 27 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:40,000 He's hopefully going to jump over and join us in just a little bit. 28 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,920 And then we've got our local good friend, Brian Bayoff here. 29 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:47,920 He's listening in and he's going to tell us what he's learned about the Battle of the 30 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:48,920 Bulge. 31 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:54,200 He's a Marine, so they were on the other side of the world at the time. 32 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:55,200 Yep. 33 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:57,720 Yep, is right. 34 00:01:57,720 --> 00:01:59,120 All right. 35 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:03,640 Before we get into the program, I got to talk about our sponsors. 36 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:07,560 We can't do this program without them. 37 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:09,880 And starting off is Legal Help for Veterans. 38 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:15,840 And Legal Help for Veterans specializes in Veteran Disabilities Claims. 39 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:25,320 Give Legal Help for Veterans a call at 800-693-4800 or go to their website, legalhelpforveterans.com. 40 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:30,160 The National Veterans Business Development Council, better known as NVVDC, is the nation's 41 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:34,720 leading third party authority for certification of a veteran-owned business. 42 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:39,320 You want to do business in the URA veteran-owned business and you want to do business with 43 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:43,480 the federal government or corporations, you've got to be certified. 44 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:44,840 And these are the folks that can do it. 45 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:53,000 So that's NVVDC.org or give them a call at 888-237-8433. 46 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:58,600 The Purel Clean Corporation, paramedics of property damage, they provide water damage 47 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:03,400 remediation, flood water removal, fire, smoke, damage remediation, mold removal, and all 48 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,560 bio-azard cleanups. 49 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:09,240 Reason that we're talking with the Purel Clean people is that they're one of the nation's 50 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:17,200 leading restoration franchise networks and veterans get 25% off the franchise fee. 51 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:21,440 So for more information, go to purelclean.com. 52 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:25,520 The Charles S. Kettles VA Medical Center here in Ann Arbor, Michigan. 53 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:27,240 For more information, go to va.gov. 54 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:34,840 I also wanted to point out something that I learned a couple of weeks ago and that is 55 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:35,840 that you can go. 56 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:40,920 There's a National Call Center for Homeless Veterans. 57 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:42,640 This is really important for you. 58 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,560 Anybody out there listening, write down this phone number. 59 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:51,960 If you come across a homeless veteran, this call center is available 24 hours a day, seven 60 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,040 days a week, so on and so forth. 61 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:59,880 But the number is 877-424-3838. 62 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:04,840 That's 877-424-3838. 63 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:10,280 And the reason that I wanted to give this number out is that sometimes, unfortunately, across 64 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:15,680 the country, we see a lot of homeless veterans on the side of the road holding up the signs 65 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,120 that's homeless veteran, whatever it is, and we can't think of what we can do to actually 66 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:20,120 help them. 67 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:25,800 Well, you can either give them this number or you can call this number and tell them 68 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,320 where you see this homeless vet. 69 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:33,840 And I've been told that the VA will send out a representative to talk to the veteran, find 70 00:04:33,840 --> 00:04:36,080 out what they can do to help them. 71 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:37,440 So please think about that. 72 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:42,200 That number again is 877-424-3838. 73 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,200 The Vietnam Veterans of America is another one of our sponsors. 74 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:49,120 Never again will one generation of veterans abandon another. 75 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:54,040 And locally, we've got the Irwin Crestcor and American Legion Post-46 and the Charles S. 76 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:59,680 Kettles Vietnam Veterans of America Chapter 310, both of Ann Arbor, Michigan. 77 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:04,120 As I mentioned before, we cannot do this program without your support. 78 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:08,720 So if you'd like to help us out, you can go to veteransradio.org, click on the donate 79 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:09,720 button. 80 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:10,720 We greatly appreciate it. 81 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,720 We are a 501-C3 nonprofit corporation. 82 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,400 All right, let's get right on into this. 83 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,360 So as I mentioned at the top of the hour, we were going to be talking about the Battle 84 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,800 of Bulge, the 80th anniversary. 85 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:31,720 Let's kind of flip around here, but it's from December 16, 1944, up until middle to the end 86 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,880 of January 1945. 87 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:39,400 So our guest, as I mentioned before, number one is Bob O'Connor. 88 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:44,520 Bob is the author of the Jeep Show, A Trooper in the Battle of the Bulge. 89 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:50,000 Those that were listening, Bob was on back in November to talk about his book. 90 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,480 And some figure in his guts, I know we did a lot of research for that. 91 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:55,840 So Bob, welcome back to Veterans Radio. 92 00:05:55,840 --> 00:05:56,840 Thank you. 93 00:05:56,840 --> 00:06:00,760 It's really a pleasure to be here with you and your listeners. 94 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:06,920 And joining me after quite a long hiatus is Kevin Hemel. 95 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:12,800 And Kevin is a historian and writer for the United States Army Air Force. 96 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:18,760 He's done all kinds of stuff written for the National Naval History, World War II history, 97 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,840 World War II quarterly, a couple of books. 98 00:06:21,840 --> 00:06:24,560 And he's got a new book coming out. 99 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:32,160 His article, I just saw this too, his article about WAC Corporal Lena Dericott and a 6th 100 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:36,720 Triple 8th Central Postal Battalion has been made into a movie. 101 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,040 In fact, it's on Netflix right now. 102 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,160 So we'll talk about that later on in the program. 103 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:43,160 Wow. 104 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:44,720 Hey, Kevin, welcome back. 105 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:46,360 Hey, thanks for having me. 106 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:47,360 Can you hear me okay? 107 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,000 I can hear you just fine. 108 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:50,000 Thank you very much. 109 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:51,000 Fantastic. 110 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,720 All right, so I'm going to go to historian first, Kevin. 111 00:06:54,720 --> 00:07:01,000 So let's tell me, tell me what happened on December 16, 1944. 112 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:02,480 Not much. 113 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:03,480 No. 114 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:11,960 So December 16, 1944, that is the launching of three German armies at the American lines, 115 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:17,680 what the Germans are calling Operation Autumn Mist, which we all remember as the Battle 116 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:22,800 of the Bulge through the Ardennes Forest in both Belgium and Luxembourg. 117 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:23,880 It's a night attack. 118 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:28,160 It's going to start with an artillery barrage on American front lines. 119 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,120 Some of the German troops are going to reflect. 120 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:36,080 They're going to use large searchlights and reflect them off the clouds and light up the 121 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:43,600 American lines and shell them and then just try to drive a big wedge through the American 122 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:44,760 and British armies. 123 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:51,640 Now the plan, according to Adolf Hitler, is to make this huge drive to Antwerp, a very 124 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:57,280 vital port, and the idea is that it's going to split the British and American troops. 125 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,120 They're going to go reeling in confusion. 126 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,080 They're going to sue for peace. 127 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:07,240 And then Germany can turn all of its troops towards the Soviet Union and overwhelm and 128 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,320 defeat Joseph Stalin. 129 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:13,960 That is the way over ambitious plan by Adolf Hitler. 130 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:21,640 It is basically ground down within a week or two by the American troops in the north. 131 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:26,960 They basically fight a defensive line against the Germans and just wear them down. 132 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:32,400 In the south, the town of Bastogne becomes surrounded and elements of Patton's Third 133 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:42,880 Army are going to break north and drive through German territory basically and relieve Bastogne. 134 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:47,440 It's the largest campaign fought by the United States Army in its history. 135 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:52,440 It's Hitler's last gasp to really try to win World War II. 136 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:56,120 It's an abject failure and an incredible American victory. 137 00:08:56,120 --> 00:09:00,240 Well, thank you all for listening and now we're right along. 138 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:01,400 Good night everybody. 139 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:02,400 Good night. 140 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,200 That's the main story. 141 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:09,320 Well let's kind of figure it out, try to figure this out a little bit more, Kevin. 142 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:17,680 Let's back up because six months earlier everybody was really excited and stuff because 143 00:09:17,680 --> 00:09:23,440 D-Day occurred and we had finally landed on the continent and we're pushing our way 144 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,240 towards Germany. 145 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:31,480 But from my understanding that we kind of got bogged down there in October and November. 146 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:35,120 We actually get bogged down in June and July. 147 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:40,520 The initial landings are successful but then we get kind of stuck up in the hedgerow fighting 148 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:46,920 and it's not until Operation Cobra where they usually use big bombers to bomb the German 149 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:52,720 lines and then break a bunch of cores which a couple cores make up an army. 150 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:58,440 We break cores through the German lines and then just go racing across France and that's 151 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:03,800 Patton's famous pursuit of the enemy, the breakout in pursuit. 152 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:10,920 And the attitude of the soldiers prior to this is we're going to die in a few weeks. 153 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:14,840 Once they start racing across France we're going to be home for Christmas. 154 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:20,640 So it really changes the attitude of the American military but in the beginning of September 155 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:25,840 we start getting into that sort of rough territory along the Moose River, I'm sorry, the Moselle 156 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:30,960 River in the south and then all the canals in Holland in the north. 157 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:38,400 And just as we're reaching this really rough terrain we run really thin on fuel and food 158 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,960 and supplies and clouds start rolling in. 159 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:46,960 You get that autumn cover over the sky so we don't have that air support element. 160 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:51,440 So it's kind of like all these bad things kind of happening at once and they sort of 161 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:58,000 slow install the Allied armies trying to break into Germany and it's at this point that Hitler 162 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:03,320 starts organizing his armies for this one last huge counterattack campaign. 163 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:10,080 Well, he was trying to figure out where he got all these people from because he was involved 164 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:17,360 in the east side of Germany with the Russians and that seemed like that wasn't going too 165 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:24,600 well and now we've got the Allies coming across from the west so he's going to end 166 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:31,920 the south and they're coming up through Italy and he's kind of got a last gasp attempt to 167 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:32,920 do something. 168 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:38,520 I'm guessing this was not really a popular decision by his generals, was it? 169 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:39,520 No, not at all. 170 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:46,200 They thought that the troops would be better used, slowing down the Soviets in the east 171 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,280 instead of going against the Allies in the west. 172 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:54,720 To answer your question about where the troops come from, roughly 50,000 Germans escaped 173 00:11:54,720 --> 00:12:01,080 from what was called the Filet Pocket when Montgomery's 21st Army Group was pushing down 174 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:06,480 from Normandy and Omar Bradley's 12th Army Group kind of encircles mostly under General 175 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:12,640 Patton and tries to sort of create a bag and catch them all. 176 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:17,920 About 50,000 do escape from that and there were a lot of Germans in Scandinavia that 177 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:22,640 they could pull out and they even thin the lines a little bit in Italy to make this possible 178 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:27,720 and pulled some armored divisions off the Russian front to make this happen. 179 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:37,000 Kevin, I've also read that because the Luftwaffe was kind of on its last leg, by that time, 180 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:43,040 yeah, turned into the Luftwaffe almost, that they were able to transfer a lot of ground 181 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:49,240 support type personnel and turn them into infantrymen, which I'm sure didn't throw the 182 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:50,240 general. 183 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:55,480 No, the same thing with the Kriegsmarine or the German Navy. 184 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:59,120 So yeah, they were basically pulling everybody they could into this. 185 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:04,200 So you had an overwhelming army of very poorly trained soldiers. 186 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:11,240 One of the first operations of the war of the campaign was called Operation Stosser 187 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:16,480 and that was dropping German paratroopers behind American lines. 188 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:22,320 And these guys, a lot of them, it was their first jump ever and it was basically at night 189 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,760 in a snowstorm. 190 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:32,960 You talk about the 101st and 82nd Airborne, they were highly trained to the razor's edge 191 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,640 and launching in relatively good weather. 192 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:42,040 Where you've got a lot of green paratroopers jumping for the first time ever, they do cause 193 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:47,680 confusion behind the lines, but not as effective as they could have been if they had trained 194 00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:53,920 specifically for this mission and had a little bit of experience under their belts. 195 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:59,280 There was some confusion when you're talking about those paratroopers when I was reading 196 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,480 another story. 197 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:10,240 There was a World War II veteran who was talking about, he was an MP and he said that one of 198 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:17,840 the guys in his company came running back in and he says, there's guys dressed in white 199 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,680 that are jumping out of the sky here and he says they're speaking German. 200 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:23,920 What the heck is all of that all about? 201 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:28,280 So they ran back to the company area and got to, you know, woke up the general and all 202 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:32,200 this other stuff and they drove out there but they couldn't find one. 203 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:36,800 And so they said, well, no, I think, you know, he's just imagining this. 204 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,280 That's the leadership right there. 205 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:45,920 Well, yeah, you know, well, that's a whole other program. 206 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:54,800 Dale, this jump by the German paratroopers, they were dressed in American uniforms, many 207 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:59,040 of them and they were intended to create chaos. 208 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:07,200 And as Kevin says, they did, they really weren't effective as a fighting force but they did 209 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:13,200 create a high degree of paranoia behind the American lines. 210 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:19,480 And I have a, my fictional character who has retreated from the very front lines of the 211 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:29,800 attack to Clairvaux, which was the regimental headquarters of the 110th regiment, meets 212 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:37,800 up with a very nervous sentry on the outskirts of Bastogne and who asked for a password. 213 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:42,320 I could read you a couple of paragraphs of that conversation if your listeners would 214 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:43,320 like it. 215 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,200 Yeah, I think that would be interesting. 216 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:52,880 Okay, so the Jim Tanser, the entertainment soldier has just escaped from the host in 217 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:59,880 Jen, the very front line and walked to Clairvaux, regimental headquarters of the 110th regiment 218 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:07,480 and very much the next place to be overrun by the German forces within the first 24 hours. 219 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:13,680 Okay, private Tanser, you say, from a GI two hours later holding the map in one hand and 220 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,520 pointing a rifle at Jim with the other. 221 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:23,600 The GI is Johnny Kucharski before the draft a soda jerk at the West Philadelphia Rexalls, 222 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:27,800 now mess cook in the 110th regimental headquarters company. 223 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:33,720 Kucharski is deeply unhappy to be on sentry duty east of Clairvaux during what rumor and 224 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,920 his own ears tell him is an escalating emergency. 225 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:43,320 He is also slightly drunk, who don't know the code word, don't have no dog tags, don't 226 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:48,440 know Danny Litwiler plays for the Phillies nor whiz means whiz onions. 227 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,760 I know Rip Sewell and Paul Weiner, Jim says. 228 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,160 Nobody cares about them pirates. 229 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:59,200 Leo DeRosher cookie bombs, handy hook, keep your hands high. 230 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:04,080 Kucharski says, has this German map dressed like the Pope face covered in blood shaking 231 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:07,840 life a leak, shaking like a leaf, no cigarettes. 232 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:12,160 Tell us your story again and better this time so we don't turn you over you and your map 233 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:16,600 over to the MPs, the miserable pricks, he says under his breath. 234 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,240 I'm just cold, Jim says untruthfully. 235 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:24,840 Well, crowds don't chew gum, so I'll give you another chance. 236 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:31,600 That was my my fictional take on some of the confusion and the effects thereof on ordinary 237 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:32,600 GIs. 238 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:37,080 Well, you know, what was interesting, I thought, you know, a lot of the little research that 239 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:43,600 I did for this is, you know, it was we were unorganized as well. 240 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:48,400 Right, Kevin, it seemed like we were surprised we were we were sending replacements up to 241 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:55,160 the front by the thousands, you know, with no experience and and and so on and so forth 242 00:17:55,160 --> 00:18:00,960 and kind of nobody really expected that Germans were going to do this thing again. 243 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:10,120 And, you know, and Hitler, you know, Hitler and his delusional genius decided that this 244 00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:11,680 was a great way to do it. 245 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:17,440 And he, you know, he had talked to meteorologists and found that, you know, there was going 246 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:23,200 to be cloud cover and terrible weather and, you know, we wouldn't be able to, you know, 247 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:24,840 have any airplanes in the air. 248 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,640 So that would give them an advantage going in, right? 249 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:28,640 Right. 250 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:29,640 Yeah. 251 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:36,040 And in fact, speaking of the complete surprise on the American side, the movie Patton portrays 252 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:40,800 him as predicting the Battle of the Bulge, and it's been written about for decades. 253 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:48,520 But in my research, I realized that all of these statements are based on a November 25, 254 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:54,640 1944 diary entry, in which he says, you know, Troy Middleton's corps is sitting around, 255 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:56,280 they should be up and active. 256 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,840 If not, the Germans could attack through there. 257 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:05,920 That was something that his wife did to his diaries. 258 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,880 That sentence is not in the handwritten diaries. 259 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:10,720 It's only in the typed up version. 260 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:16,400 In the handwritten diaries, he does write it, but he writes it on December 27, the day 261 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:20,000 after he liberate, he broke through the bastone. 262 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,800 So she took that sentence and moved it back to November 25. 263 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:28,280 And every historian, including myself, since 1952 has been telling that story. 264 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:34,640 So fortunately, I was able to course correct research and have that in my volume, but really 265 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,920 nobody saw this coming. 266 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:46,240 And I don't mean to be stuttering about this because it was such a massive undertaking 267 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,960 on both sides, really, but especially on the German side. 268 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,880 I mean, I don't know how many pans or tanks they've had. 269 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:58,200 I mean, anybody who wants to, you know, find out more about the Battle of the Bulge, of 270 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:02,720 course, all they got to do is type it in on, you know, on Google and there'll be all kinds 271 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,560 of videos that will come up and you'll see how terrible the weather was. 272 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:11,680 And I mean, maybe you can, Kevin, you can give us a little history of what was going 273 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:13,440 on at the time, weather wise. 274 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:14,440 Sure. 275 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:19,000 So as far as the weather is concerned, the weather was not that bad when they launched 276 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:20,000 the attack. 277 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:25,000 There was a lot of heavy cloud cover, but there was no snow for at least the first two 278 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:26,760 days. 279 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:30,600 And then the snow kind of just kind of sprays the area. 280 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:37,200 It's not until after Bastone is relieved that the temperatures start going below zero and 281 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,440 there's just snowstorms left and right. 282 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:44,640 In fact, a lot of the photographs that we think of when we think of the Battle of the 283 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,400 Bulge were taken in January, not December. 284 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,360 There was a news blackout because of the German attack. 285 00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:56,920 And in my research for Patton's Drive to Bastone, I think I found like three or four 286 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:58,440 photographs. 287 00:20:58,440 --> 00:20:59,440 And that's it. 288 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,600 If you really are looking at the dates and everything, one was of, I think, the 80th Division 289 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:09,160 marching north and the other one was the 26th Division marching to get into position for 290 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:10,400 the attack. 291 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:15,600 And then there's several pictures the day after Bastone's relief of tanks rolling up 292 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,960 into Bastone and almost every photograph after that is January. 293 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,520 It's January and it's cold. 294 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:27,120 And it's cold, like I said, below zero. 295 00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:31,880 You know, guys had to urinate on their rifles and machine guns because they would freeze 296 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,040 up and try to think some other things. 297 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:39,680 I remember they captured some Germans and the Germans stank real bad. 298 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:44,880 And what they realized to stay warm, the Germans would take Kalmanur and mix it with 299 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,640 straw and put it in their boots. 300 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,640 And that would keep their feet warm, but it really stank. 301 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:51,640 Whoa. 302 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:57,640 Isn't that one of those things we have to learn to attack downwind, right? 303 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,400 One of those things you don't see in the textbooks. 304 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:02,400 Yeah. 305 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:08,120 I don't remember studying that in World War II history. 306 00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:11,760 It wasn't actually flat terrain either, was it? 307 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:13,840 No, no, no. 308 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:20,400 You know, when you look at the area between Normandy and Paris, that's very flat. 309 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:25,360 And then as you get to the border with Germany, there's lots of ravines, lots of rivers running 310 00:22:25,360 --> 00:22:29,600 north to south, heavy forest areas. 311 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:34,920 So it really is good for fighting on the defensive, not so much the offensive. 312 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,560 I would think so. 313 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:38,560 Yeah. 314 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:42,240 I was thinking, and only when you're talking about cold, I just saw an article, a little 315 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:48,840 clip at this morning of talking about the pitcher Warren Spahn, for those of our elderly 316 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:55,680 generation now, used to pitch for the Braves, Paul Boehmert and all that. 317 00:22:55,680 --> 00:23:00,560 From Buffalo, New York, he says, I figured I'm used to cold weather. 318 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:05,080 This isn't going to bother me at all, but he's never been so cold in his whole life. 319 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,960 And then a lot of them weren't really prepared for the cold either. 320 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:08,960 No, no, no. 321 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,480 The American uniforms and equipment was not getting up. 322 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,160 They were wrapping towels around their boots to stay warm. 323 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:21,240 Don Malarkey with Easy Company, he would actually pour water on the towels around his boots 324 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:28,080 so it would freeze under the logical conclusion that it was insulating his feet, which the 325 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,080 other soldiers thought was stupid. 326 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:37,360 I met, I spoke with a guy from the 82nd Airborne, and he said, and he had grown up on a farm. 327 00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:40,320 He said the key was to keep moving around. 328 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,880 And the guys had just huddled in their foxholes. 329 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:48,720 They were dooming themselves to frostbite and trench foot, things like that. 330 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:55,280 And then with all the moisture and stuff, as you mentioned, prior to the snow, some 331 00:23:55,280 --> 00:24:00,960 of their foxholes and stuff that they dug out ended up with water in them. 332 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,320 And that ended, of course, with the trench foot and everything else like that. 333 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:10,200 And trying to sleep, especially, I'm sure, that once the weather turned to below zero, 334 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,000 now you're in an icebox. 335 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:19,080 They talk about during the siege of Bastone how the Germans shot a flare over the 101st 336 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:25,240 Airborne's front lines at night, and the guys kind of poked out of their foxhole to look. 337 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:30,280 And they realized that everyone's faces were black, because what you would do in your foxhole, 338 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:35,480 you put the tarp over it, and you could light a sterno, because you had the tarp over it. 339 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:40,600 But all the oil from the sterno would get on your face and basically blacken it. 340 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,840 And so that was part of the living conditions for the 101st and the perimeter of Bastone. 341 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:45,840 Oh, man. 342 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,360 I mean, the conditions are just awful. 343 00:24:49,360 --> 00:24:54,400 You mentioned earlier on, and Bob, I know you mentioned this also, the idea of these 344 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,880 Germans coming in and dressed as Americans. 345 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:04,520 And there was so much back and forth travel, I guess you could say it before World War 346 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,880 II. 347 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:11,080 Germans would come to America and go to schools and all this other stuff and go back and we 348 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:12,800 had the same type of thing. 349 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:17,080 Can you think of any examples of what they ran into? 350 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,960 What would give the Germans away? 351 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,280 Well, one of the things that my weeks... 352 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:24,840 Other than chewing gum. 353 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:29,520 Well, they wouldn't...no, they'd be chewing gum to act like Americans. 354 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:34,400 I think Americans were the only people in the world that chewed gum like that. 355 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:41,080 They would certainly, as the fictional soldier does on Sentry Duty outside of Clairvaux, 356 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,400 they'd go deeper than the easy passwords. 357 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:49,320 So it wouldn't be just, you know, give me the pledge of allegiance or something like 358 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:54,320 that, but it would be, you know, who's the relief pitcher for the Pittsburgh Pirates? 359 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,880 What kind of, you know, they'd go deeper on that. 360 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:02,000 They also, I read and I think Kevin probably knows a good deal more than I do about it, 361 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:10,040 but I read that when they stripped some of these German imposters down, they were wearing 362 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,880 gray, German issue underwear. 363 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,760 And that confirmed it. 364 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,760 And of course, these men were shot out of hand. 365 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:25,560 They were not, you know, sent to prison for a month and, you know, given a trial as, you 366 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:32,340 know, when you put on the other guy's uniform, you are, my understanding is you are subject 367 00:26:32,340 --> 00:26:34,720 to immediate execution when caught. 368 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,160 And they pretty much were. 369 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:38,760 I'm sure they were interrogated. 370 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:40,560 But Kevin, what, is that right? 371 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:41,560 Yeah. 372 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,000 So they were considered spies if you're wearing the other countries. 373 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,000 Right. 374 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,000 And they actually wasn't just German underwear. 375 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,880 They wore their entire uniforms underneath the American uniform because they wanted to 376 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:55,080 be able to change quickly if they were surrounded. 377 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:56,080 And I should stress this. 378 00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,200 So there's two operations. 379 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:07,000 Grief, which was guys on the ground in American uniforms going to change sides and guard bridges. 380 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:11,960 And then Stasser, which is the paratrooping guys going in and they kept on their German 381 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:12,960 uniform. 382 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:13,960 I see. 383 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:18,840 And so, and like I said, they're the guys wearing American uniforms. 384 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,920 Their job was to guard bridges that we wanted to keep, that Germans wanted to keep intact 385 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,040 and take down street signs. 386 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:30,800 But when they interrogated one of the guys, he just said, yeah, we're out to get big generals. 387 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,120 And that causes the real grief on the American lines. 388 00:27:34,120 --> 00:27:39,680 Suddenly, you know, a battalion of MPs is guarding Dwight D Eisenhower. 389 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:47,040 So in that sense, their size is small compared to the impact they have on the battlefield. 390 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,080 There was something else I was going to add about this. 391 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,680 Kevin, let me tell you something. 392 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,960 I heard from, I went to a conference at the World War II Museum and one of the speakers 393 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,240 was a Bernard Montgomery expert. 394 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:07,960 So of course, he talked about how Ike during the battle, Eisenhower gave part of the American 395 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:12,840 forces over to Montgomery and took them away from, you know, essentially took them away 396 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:18,240 from Omar Bradley, which absolutely infuriated Bradley. 397 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:27,000 This speaker said that Bradley became so concerned about the German spies going after generals 398 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:33,120 that he rarely, you know, rarely left his headquarters in Luxembourg City. 399 00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:40,800 And this speaker intimated that this was part of why Eisenhower took the forces in the north 400 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:47,600 and turned them over to Montgomery was that Bradley seemed trapped in Luxembourg City by 401 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:52,120 his fear of these overblown spies. 402 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:53,120 Yeah. 403 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:57,480 I'm not sure that guy understood what was happening. 404 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:04,680 The reason that Eisenhower gives First Army under Courtney Hodges to Montgomery is because 405 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:10,680 the German attack basically disrupts all the communications between Bradley's 12th Army 406 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,520 headquarters and First Army. 407 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:19,920 And it's something that is discussed amongst Eisenhower's staff of British and Americans, 408 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:24,680 Beetle Smith being the chief of staff, and he's infuriated by this idea when the British 409 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:29,320 come to him and say, well, it would be better if Montgomery commanded First Army because 410 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:34,320 then the communications would be directed to get the hell out of my office. 411 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:35,320 And he thinks about it. 412 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:36,320 He goes, you know what? 413 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:37,560 You guys are right. 414 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:43,800 And they go to Eisenhower and Eisenhower understands the political aspect of this. 415 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,840 But in this case, Eisenhower acts as a military general. 416 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:53,520 He looks at the situation on the map, makes this logical deduction that, yes, it's smarter 417 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:59,000 to have an Army group commander in the north in charge of this unit than one in the south 418 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:00,720 that's getting cut off. 419 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,720 And I think if that was an entire American force in Europe, there wouldn't have been 420 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:06,040 that political impact. 421 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:12,600 But because Montgomery was so, Montgomery was seen as so obnoxious by the American generals 422 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:21,160 that it just causes an explosion, Bradley on the other hand, he's kind of left out of 423 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:22,160 a job. 424 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,880 He's in charge of one Army and that's Patton's third Army. 425 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:30,040 And Patton's the one who's got his hands on the levers and is driving around checking 426 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:31,320 on everything. 427 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,440 But they meet every day several times a day. 428 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:39,520 And I think Patton was very conscious of Bradley's sort of embarrassing position. 429 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,680 And they had an Army taken away from him. 430 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:47,120 But in that same sense, the real pressure is on Patton. 431 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:51,200 If this attack north fails, it's going to be on Patton. 432 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,440 And it succeeds again. 433 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:54,800 It is on Patton. 434 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,160 So the real pressure was on him. 435 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,040 But I think he respected Bradley through the whole thing. 436 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:06,040 And Bradley's attitude or whatever had zero to do with Eisenhower's decision. 437 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,960 Let's halt right there. 438 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:14,840 We're going to take a real quick break for our Medal of Honor segment, which happens 439 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:19,960 to be John Fox from the Battle of Pestone. 440 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,000 And so we'll come right back. 441 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,560 We're talking with Bob O'Connor and Kevin Himmler about the Battle of the Bulge. 442 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:32,440 If you'd like to get in on the conversation, feel free to give us a call 734-822-1600. 443 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:33,440 We'll be right back. 444 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:34,760 You're listening to Veterans Radio. 445 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:39,920 The Medal of Honor is the highest award for valor in combat, given a member of the Armed 446 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:41,720 Forces of the United States. 447 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:46,600 There have been over 3,400 recipients of the nation's highest award. 448 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,040 This is one of them. 449 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:52,080 Lieutenant John Fox called in artillery fire on his own position. 450 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,280 Details after this. 451 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:59,160 If you have a VA claim denied by the Board of Veterans Appeals, contact legal help for 452 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:03,400 Veterans at 1-800-693-4800. 453 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,400 They're experts in handling cases before the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims. 454 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:11,760 Their number again, 1-800-693-4800. 455 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:16,680 On Christmas night in 1944, enemy soldiers in civilian clothes gradually infiltrated 456 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:23,240 the town Fox and his men were in, and by early morning, the town was largely in hostile hands. 457 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,800 An organized attack by uniformed German units began at 4 a.m. 458 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:32,680 Being greatly outnumbered, most of the American forces were forced to withdraw from the town, 459 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:37,240 but Fox and other members of his observer party voluntarily remained on the second floor 460 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,360 of a house to direct defensive artillery fire. 461 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,880 Fox reported the Germans were in the streets and attacking in strength. 462 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:49,400 He then called for defensive artillery fire to slow the enemy advance. 463 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:54,160 As the Germans continued to press the attack towards the area that Fox occupied, he adjusted 464 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,960 the artillery fire closer to his position. 465 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:01,400 Finally, he was warned that the next adjustment would bring the deadly artillery right on 466 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,840 top of his position. 467 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:08,840 After acknowledging the danger, Lieutenant Fox insisted that the last adjustment be fired 468 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:13,200 as this was the only way to defeat the attacking soldiers. 469 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:17,400 Here when a counterattack retook the position from the Germans, Lieutenant Fox's body 470 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,720 was found with the bodies of approximately 100 German soldiers. 471 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,640 The Metal Otter series is a production of Veterans Radio. 472 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:27,560 Military veterans touch everyone's life. 473 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:32,840 I'm guessing right now you're thinking of a veteran, a close friend, relative, maybe 474 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:33,960 it's you. 475 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:38,720 Even the toughest of us sometimes need help, but don't know where to turn for support. 476 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,280 You don't need special training to help a veteran in your life. 477 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,160 We can all help someone going through a difficult time. 478 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,520 Learn how you can be there for veterans. 479 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,200 Visit veteranscrisisline.net. 480 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:55,320 Veteranscrisisline.net, a message from the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs. 481 00:33:55,320 --> 00:34:02,840 We're back here on Veterans Radio and we're talking all about the Battle of the Bulge. 482 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:10,560 It is the 80th anniversary of the Battle of the Bulge, which is, you know, it's an amazing 483 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,240 event, a historical event. 484 00:34:13,240 --> 00:34:15,440 And we're talking with Kevin Hemel. 485 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,640 He's a historian, army historian. 486 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:23,840 And Bob O'Connor is an author of a recently, a book about the Battle of the Bulge, a fictionalized 487 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:25,340 version of it. 488 00:34:25,340 --> 00:34:28,640 And also my good friend Brian May has here too. 489 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:35,440 And I wanted to ask about, you know, Kevin, if you could kind of draw us a mental picture 490 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:42,000 of the, you know, where the Bulge occurred and, you know, it kind of gets, you know, 491 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,720 surrounding best on that area. 492 00:34:44,720 --> 00:34:45,720 Sure. 493 00:34:45,720 --> 00:34:50,000 So I guess I'll start off by saying where the Bulge did not occur. 494 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,000 And that was France. 495 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:56,760 And that was one of the goals was to reach the Muse River, which divides Belgium from 496 00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:00,520 France and then start heading north to Antwerp. 497 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:05,680 And so on the border of Germany is Belgium and Luxembourg. 498 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:12,080 And so they imagine that the border between Germany and France kind of splits like a Y. 499 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:17,920 The center of that Y would be Luxembourg in the south and Belgium in the north. 500 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:25,320 And so the idea was to launch through the forests of Belgium and Luxembourg and basically 501 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:32,160 drive the west and then northwest to the port of Antwerp and capture that. 502 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:38,120 Now, the terrain is, like I said, a lot of woods, a lot of twisty, turny roads, a lot 503 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:42,480 of ridges, a lot of bridges over streams and small, you know, rivers. 504 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:43,960 I shouldn't even say rivers. 505 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:51,680 It's really, you know, streams and creeks and small farming villages sort of in between. 506 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:56,720 And so that is where the Americans really make their defenses in these small towns. 507 00:35:56,720 --> 00:36:03,360 Now, I was talking about, we were talking about armies and of course, corps make up armies, 508 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,640 divisions make up corps. 509 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:11,400 Troy Middleton, whose eighth corps is right in the line of the attack here. 510 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,720 His headquarters is in the town of Bastogne. 511 00:36:14,720 --> 00:36:21,040 And his strategy, because he knows he realizes after about a day or two, he cannot stop this 512 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:22,160 offensive. 513 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,080 The best he can do is slow it down. 514 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:30,440 So he's putting together small packets of tanks and infantry and sending them to these 515 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:36,880 different crossroads and small towns to stall the Germans as they push towards Bastogne. 516 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,400 Now, Bastogne has seven roads coming in and out of it. 517 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,840 So whoever holds it is going to be able to control this sort of road network that you're 518 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:49,800 going to need, you know, for that big drive up to Antwerp. 519 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:57,680 And so it's really the ninth and tenth armored divisions working with the 28th Infantry Division 520 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:01,320 that are just slowing the Germans the best they can. 521 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:07,000 And it's the tenth armored that actually comes into Bastogne and breaks into three teams 522 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:12,600 in the north, in the west, in the south, I'm sorry, the north, the east and the southeast 523 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:17,480 that are going to really stop these Germans from going into Bastogne. 524 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,760 So they get pushed back from their positions. 525 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:26,480 Their actions give just enough time for the 101st Airborne under Anthony McCullough to 526 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:32,440 get into Bastogne and send his troops into a perimeter to protect it. 527 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:37,120 And so you've got this one isolated town in the Sea of Germans. 528 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:41,560 Now, fortunately, the Germans, after they make several attempts to break in, send the 529 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:46,560 majority of their tanks east for the bigger objective so that when George S. Patton has 530 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:52,440 that meeting with Eisenhower and Bradley, and they decide on their strategy, he will 531 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,880 be able to attack to Bastogne. 532 00:37:55,880 --> 00:38:00,360 And I want to stress here, because I wrote a lot about this in my book, you know, Bastogne 533 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,640 is really a big focal point of Patton's attack. 534 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:09,760 But when Dwight D. Eisenhower looked at the map of the German attack, being a good military 535 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:15,520 leader, he said the first thing we have to do is stabilize the shoulders of this big 536 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,480 bulge driving through our lines. 537 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:21,440 Now, in the north, that had already been done with a place called Ellsborn Ridge. 538 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:25,920 There was a solid, there was a nice ridge where the Americans set up their artillery 539 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,920 and so the Germans couldn't expand any wider. 540 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:34,360 Patton, on the other hand, is basically his shoulder is out exposed. 541 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:40,000 And so what he's going to do is launch the 5th Infantry Division, very experienced division, 542 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,680 into a place called Etternacht along the Sauer River. 543 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:48,560 And if he can take that, he will stabilize his side of the shoulder. 544 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:55,160 So on December 22nd, he's going to launch dual attacks, one to Bastogne and one to Etternacht. 545 00:38:55,160 --> 00:39:01,920 And in Etternacht, they're going to use a new top secret weapon called the, I just forgot 546 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,960 the name of it, the proximity fuse. 547 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:10,680 And so this is put on artillery rounds that allows them to blow up above ground and have 548 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:12,640 much bigger impact. 549 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:17,640 So when the Americans get close to Etternacht and the hills over it, they start shelling 550 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:18,800 the town. 551 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:23,960 The Germans flee across the bridge, but the artillery fire is so intense, they turn around 552 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:25,680 and flee back into it. 553 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:31,880 And so it's not until the morning of the 26th of December that after Christmas, they take 554 00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:32,880 Etternacht. 555 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:34,600 And Patton is so relieved. 556 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:39,840 He goes, my attack into Bastogne cannot be outflanked because we have Etternacht. 557 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:40,840 And he was just frustrated. 558 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:42,600 He hadn't taken Bastogne. 559 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,120 He had been pushing all those troops to get up there for days. 560 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:52,160 He promised Eisenhower he'd be there in 24 hours on the 23rd of December and was worried 561 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,120 he was going to get fired for not reaching Bastogne. 562 00:39:55,120 --> 00:40:00,000 And at one point Eisenhower calls him and he goes, I'm so sorry. 563 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:01,000 Please don't fire me. 564 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,600 And he goes, George, what are you talking about? 565 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,920 As long as you're moving, you're winning the battle. 566 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,800 And so Eisenhower had complete confidence in Patton. 567 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:16,760 Patton showed a little bit of fear and anxiety, but he had the courage to go on the offensive. 568 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:25,200 And it really is a close run thing because Anthony McCullough inside Bastogne is in communication 569 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,240 with Patton the whole time. 570 00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:29,000 And he's saying, when are you going to get up here? 571 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:30,360 When are you going to relieve us? 572 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,840 We're holding on by our fingernails. 573 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:37,120 And Patton's relaying that information to his troops below. 574 00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:42,080 And when they go to make a break to get into Bastogne, in the path they think is the easiest, 575 00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:47,400 a place called Chomalt, the Germans counterattack and stop it. 576 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:53,320 And so it's really this reserve unit that's circling around the rear to go defend a town 577 00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:58,920 that think the Germans are going to attack under a guy named Creighton Abrams that comes 578 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,080 to a crossroads. 579 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:07,080 And he looks up and he sees all these cargo planes flying to Bastogne and dropping equipment 580 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:09,080 parachuting it in. 581 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:13,920 And then he's seeing the planes get shot down and says, you know what? 582 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:18,760 Why don't we just try at this crossroad to just race into Bastogne? 583 00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:20,800 And what do we got to lose? 584 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:26,200 So he radios the request up the chain of command that they ever agrees. 585 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:31,200 And they're going to put in the front of this attack, what's called a jumbo tank, where 586 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:36,400 they put extra plates of armor on the hull so it can take a lot of punishment. 587 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:40,600 And they put a lieutenant named Bodges in the tank and they said, you know, go get those 588 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,640 boys in Bastogne. 589 00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:44,720 And he begins to drive. 590 00:41:44,720 --> 00:41:51,720 They get to a town called Assen-Wa and the plan is the Americans are going to shell it. 591 00:41:51,720 --> 00:41:56,120 And as Bodges' tanks get close, they'll stop the shelling. 592 00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:59,480 They got a guy in a jeep, you know, raiding this in. 593 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,760 And just as they're formulating the plan, the artillery's hitting the town, the tanks 594 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,760 are coming up, the Germans knock out the guy in the jeep. 595 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:12,960 So Bodges and all of his troops go into Assen-Wa in the midst of an artillery barrage. 596 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:17,720 It is very confused, fighting, things are getting bogged down. 597 00:42:17,720 --> 00:42:22,600 One American soldier actually knocks out two German machine gun posts and saves the guy 598 00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:24,560 in a burning half-track. 599 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:29,680 His name is Jimi Hendrix and he'll get the Medal of Honor for that. 600 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:35,320 And Bodges and two other tanks, followed by two half-tracks and another two tanks, make 601 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:40,200 it out of the town just as the telephone pole goes down in the middle of the street, blocking 602 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,080 all the other tanks. 603 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:47,200 Fortunately, a guy, a guy in a Piper Cups flying over calls off the artillery. 604 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:56,120 But now the entire offensive going into Bastogne is three tanks followed by two half-tracks, 605 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:57,120 followed by two more tanks. 606 00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,360 That's the entire offensive. 607 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:03,240 And as they're driving up this road, they're firing into the woods left and right. 608 00:43:03,240 --> 00:43:07,200 They don't want to engage the Germans, they just want to keep their heads down. 609 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:12,720 But as they go, the tanks separate from the troop carriers, so the Germans run into the 610 00:43:12,720 --> 00:43:14,440 road and plant mines. 611 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:20,240 They just throw them onto the road and one of the half-tracks hits the mine, stalling 612 00:43:20,240 --> 00:43:21,720 the rest of the column. 613 00:43:21,720 --> 00:43:25,320 So now the entire attack into Bastogne is three tanks. 614 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:30,000 Lieutenant Bodges rolls up on a big bunker on the right side of the road, fires a bunch 615 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,800 of rounds into it, kills about 10 Germans. 616 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:38,000 And then he sees some guys kind of creeping up on his left and he turns the cannon on 617 00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:43,560 them and he shouts, I'm Lieutenant Bodges, 4th Armored Division, identify yourselves. 618 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:49,880 And one of the guys stands up, he says, Corporal Miller 505th, I'm sorry, 101st Airborne, damn 619 00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:51,520 glad to see you. 620 00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:55,000 And that's when the siege of Bastogne is broken. 621 00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:56,360 You mentioned Crete and Abrams. 622 00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,720 Is that the same Crete and Abrams that was the commander of Vietnam? 623 00:43:59,720 --> 00:44:03,120 Yes, and that's what the Abrams tank is named for. 624 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:04,120 Okay. 625 00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:09,880 Well, so the guy did have some experience. 626 00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,720 He wasn't the pencil pusher we thought he was in Vietnam. 627 00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:13,720 Oh, absolutely. 628 00:44:13,720 --> 00:44:20,400 The other thing, Bob, I wanted to comment and I think it was in your book, and I know 629 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:26,600 this and everybody knows this one, but I really love the comment of General McAuliffe when 630 00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:31,200 Bastogne is surrounded and the Germans are telling him, offering him a chance to surrender. 631 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,080 What did he do? 632 00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:40,720 Well, his aide, he was taken a nap because of course he was sleepless for most nights 633 00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:43,520 while he, you know, while this was going on. 634 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:49,840 His aides woke him up, presented the German typed letter and he looked at it. 635 00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:54,080 And I think he was still half asleep and he said, nuts. 636 00:44:54,080 --> 00:45:01,880 And they, I think they said, you know, asked him to repeat that and he said, nuts. 637 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:10,280 And when they took this back to the German officers who had brought the offer of surrender, 638 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:16,400 the request for surrender, even though they were fluent in English, they did not understand 639 00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:21,680 the colloquialism, nuts, and it had to be explained to them by an American. 640 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,560 It basically means just go to hell. 641 00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:25,560 Yeah, exactly. 642 00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,640 Forget about it, like we say now. 643 00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:32,600 I was going to add, McAuliffe is such an interesting person. 644 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:37,440 It was very, you know, there's some luck in here. 645 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:43,000 McAuliffe was the highest ranking officer, of course, in Bastogne. 646 00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:48,200 And as it happened, he was the artillery officer, the high, you know, the, the artillery commander 647 00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,360 for the 101st Airborne Division. 648 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:59,160 And so he was able to use the artillery in Bastogne and basically fire around the face 649 00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:00,160 of a clock. 650 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,360 So he could fire 360 degrees. 651 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:08,680 And my understanding, and Kevin, I'm sure you know more about this, but my understanding 652 00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:15,040 is it was very difficult for the German armor to concentrate enough armor and soldiers in 653 00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:24,280 one place to make a breakthrough because the American artillery was able to, you know, 654 00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:30,840 again, fire at a 360 degree circle from Bastogne. 655 00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:37,120 And if we hadn't run out of shells, and I believe we came somewhat close to running 656 00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:42,920 out of shells before the cargo planes were starting to drop them, that was a real problem 657 00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,280 for the Germans trying to get into Bastogne. 658 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:46,280 Yeah. 659 00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:53,800 In fact, McAuliffe set up a pattern in what's now McAuliffe Square, he used ropes and basically 660 00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:55,920 made a huge pie. 661 00:46:55,920 --> 00:47:00,280 And so guys would radio in where they were and what was coming. 662 00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:05,320 And they would use the artillery within the pie to fire and concentrate on the German 663 00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:07,800 attacks, very, very effective. 664 00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:11,920 I'll tell you a real quick other anecdote about, or just different perspective on the 665 00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,120 nuts story. 666 00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:18,840 When the Germans came through the line with that surrender notice, it was about 12 noon. 667 00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:24,760 That morning at 6.30 a.m., Patton had launched his counterattack to Bastogne and had gone 668 00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,800 about three miles by 12 noon. 669 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:31,720 So McAuliffe was aware that help was on the way. 670 00:47:31,720 --> 00:47:37,520 But I think that reinforced his ability to deny the form of surrender. 671 00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:38,520 Yes. 672 00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:39,520 Yes. 673 00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:47,840 Well, I just, you know, so what happened after, so we got to Bastogne was not, well, 674 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,880 that was basically surrounded, wasn't it, until Patton broke through? 675 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,880 Correct, for about 10 days. 676 00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:55,840 So they were cut off. 677 00:47:55,840 --> 00:48:02,360 And then the reinforcement started arriving and the weather cleared and the bombers were 678 00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:10,400 able to come back into action and actually pushed the Germans back into Germany, right? 679 00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:11,400 Right. 680 00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:12,400 Yeah. 681 00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:18,120 So once Bastogne was really, what Patton really wanted to do, and Montgomery too, was 682 00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:22,520 to attack at the base and close off the entire bulge. 683 00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:26,680 But in the south, Bradley said, no, I want you to, after you take Bastogne, just keep 684 00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:31,960 heading north because the sooner we connect with the troops in the north, the sooner I 685 00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:33,760 get first army back. 686 00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:38,360 So that is really Bradley's motivation. 687 00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:41,360 And Patton, he doesn't really disagree or push back. 688 00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:42,720 He goes, okay. 689 00:48:42,720 --> 00:48:49,680 But the fighting for that section, the fighting after Bastogne is sometimes more intense and 690 00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:53,920 bloodier and higher casualties than before Bastogne. 691 00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:57,880 Because that's when the temperatures drop below zero, the Germans are really defending 692 00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:00,520 themselves to get out of there. 693 00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:04,960 And they're going to exact them as much of a toll as they can. 694 00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,200 And then you've got troops on the north kind of going on the offensive and they're taking 695 00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:09,560 casualties. 696 00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:12,760 So it is a pretty bloody slog. 697 00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:18,040 I think that's why so many histories and popular stories end with the relief of Bastogne 698 00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:22,240 and never really go into the real bloody fighting to really erase the bulge. 699 00:49:22,240 --> 00:49:31,320 Kevin, it was till January 25th that the lines were so that, as you say, that bloody fighting, 700 00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:37,600 which gets less popular press, went on for a darn near a month. 701 00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:38,600 Yeah. 702 00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:43,280 In fact, there's one point they try to transfer the 101st Airborne out of the area to give 703 00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:44,280 them a rest. 704 00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:47,840 But the roads are so full of snow and ice, they can't even move it. 705 00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:51,160 You know, that's the kind of conditions they're fighting under. 706 00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:52,160 Incredible. 707 00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:53,160 Yeah. 708 00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:57,040 Well, I know the numbers were astronomical as far as I think they said it was one of 709 00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,200 the bloodiest campaigns of World War II. 710 00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:00,720 From both sides. 711 00:50:00,720 --> 00:50:01,720 Yeah. 712 00:50:01,720 --> 00:50:02,720 Yeah. 713 00:50:02,720 --> 00:50:09,400 Like I said, it's the largest campaign fought by the US Army in its history. 714 00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:10,400 Wow. 715 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:11,400 Yeah. 716 00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,160 We're coming up toward the end of the program here. 717 00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:21,680 I just wanted to give Kevin a chance to talk about this movie that has just been released. 718 00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:25,000 It's called The Six Triple Eight. 719 00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:26,000 Tell me about this. 720 00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,760 You wrote an article and then they kind of adapted it. 721 00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:29,760 Sure. 722 00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:35,320 So The Six Triple Eight is about the Six Triple Eight Central Postal Directory Battalion. 723 00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:40,840 This was the only all black, all female unit to go over season World War II. 724 00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:43,160 They go over in February 45. 725 00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:50,280 They're given a sort of almost impossible task of breaking a log jam of mail to the troops 726 00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:52,920 in only six months. 727 00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:55,240 They did it in three. 728 00:50:55,240 --> 00:50:57,920 I first learned about them in 2008. 729 00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:04,480 I wrote a story about the unit in 2009 and then moved on to other things. 730 00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:08,760 And I had worked at Fort Leavenworth at one point and then I was working down in San Antonio 731 00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:13,480 and friends were calling me from Fort Leavenworth saying, hey, there's posters going up that 732 00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:16,360 they're building a monument to the Six Triple Eight. 733 00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:18,240 You need to call these people. 734 00:51:18,240 --> 00:51:19,240 So I reached out to him. 735 00:51:19,240 --> 00:51:20,680 I didn't call him Phil Pot. 736 00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:22,560 I said, how can I help you? 737 00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:24,840 And he was, well, we actually found three more veterans. 738 00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:28,280 I had interviewed three veterans to write the original story. 739 00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:30,560 And I said, well, tell you what, give me one of the veterans. 740 00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:31,560 I'll interview her. 741 00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:32,560 I'll write the story. 742 00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:37,520 I'll go in WW2 history magazine and it'll be a nice accompanying thing. 743 00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:39,880 So I interviewed Lena Dericott King. 744 00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:40,960 She was a pill. 745 00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:43,480 She was hysterical at 95. 746 00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:46,440 She still went out dancing every Saturday night. 747 00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:50,240 And I wrote up her story and it got published. 748 00:51:50,240 --> 00:51:52,560 And the publisher liked it so much. 749 00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:57,000 He connected me with a Hollywood producer named Carlota Espinosa. 750 00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:01,440 And then she brought in her partner, Kerry Selig, and they would just call me from time 751 00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:02,880 to time. 752 00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:06,520 And then one day they called me up and they said, okay, Tyler Perry is going to call you 753 00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:07,520 in two days. 754 00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:10,440 And I said, yeah, right. 755 00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:13,400 And then the next thing I know, Tyler Perry is calling me. 756 00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:17,800 And I spent pretty much every day on the phone with him, sometimes two and three times a 757 00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:21,280 day for the next year as he wrote the script. 758 00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:22,680 And then he was so kind to me. 759 00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:27,440 He had me sitting on the table read with all the actresses and actors and then had me on 760 00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:30,720 set for two days as a technical advisor. 761 00:52:30,720 --> 00:52:35,040 And so I was able to add a little bit of expertise to the movie. 762 00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,240 And it's just really kind of been a dream come true. 763 00:52:37,240 --> 00:52:40,880 I mean, I never thought anything I wrote would be a movie. 764 00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:44,120 I think everything I write should be a movie, but they never have been. 765 00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:45,960 So I never really thought about it. 766 00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:47,760 So it's just been a big gift. 767 00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:53,880 And it's so nice that these women who serve their country and were basically forgotten 768 00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:57,480 are now getting their story told to an audience of millions. 769 00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:01,280 My magazines reach about 50,000 people. 770 00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:05,840 But because of Tyler Perry, millions and millions and millions of people will now know their 771 00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:06,840 story. 772 00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:07,840 Absolutely. 773 00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:08,840 The movie is 6888. 774 00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:09,840 6888. 775 00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,360 And it's on Netflix right now. 776 00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:16,560 And I really encourage people to go out there. 777 00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:20,200 Bob O'Connor, I want to thank you so much for being on our program. 778 00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:24,200 His book is the Jeep back here. 779 00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:25,200 Jeep show. 780 00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:26,200 The Jeep show. 781 00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:27,200 And maybe that movie too. 782 00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:29,600 Jeep show, a trooper at the Battle of the Bulge. 783 00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:36,680 It is available on Amazon in paperback audio book and ebook. 784 00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:37,680 All right. 785 00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:38,680 Yeah. 786 00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:39,680 And it's a great story. 787 00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:44,360 You could also go back in November and listen to it here on Veterans Radio when we talked 788 00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:45,360 about it. 789 00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:47,720 Kevin, thank you very much for being on the program. 790 00:53:47,720 --> 00:53:49,600 It's good to see you again. 791 00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:51,840 And let me know what's going on next time. 792 00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:53,280 Both of you guys are in next books. 793 00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:55,080 I'm excited to have that. 794 00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:56,080 We're going to go out. 795 00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:59,120 This is our last show of 2024. 796 00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:02,120 And now we're going to go out on America the Beautiful again. 797 00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:06,760 The version is Jimmy Fortune and Sonya Isaacs Urie. 798 00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:08,920 As you know, I believe in this country. 799 00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:10,400 I love this country. 800 00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:15,080 That's why I go out with America the Beautiful every single week, if I can. 801 00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:20,160 So until next year, this is Dale Thromberry for everybody here at Veterans Radio. 802 00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:22,360 We're going to be listening to the whole song. 803 00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:25,800 I'm getting my, no, I'm getting a stretch signal. 804 00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:29,000 So I'm going to be listening to the whole thing, right? 805 00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:30,000 So we got 10 seconds. 806 00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:31,000 Here we go. 807 00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:32,920 Anyway, so thank you all for listening. 808 00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:36,000 As I said, we'll be back next year until then. 809 00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:37,800 This is Dale, all of us. 810 00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:38,800 Happy new year. 811 00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:39,800 You are dismissed. 812 00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:40,800 God bless America. 813 00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:41,800 Land that I love. 814 00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:42,800 Stand beside her. 815 00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:43,800 I love her. 816 00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:44,800 I love her. 817 00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:45,800 I love her. 818 00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:46,800 I love her. 819 00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:47,800 I love her. 820 00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:48,800 I love her. 821 00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:49,800 I love her. 822 00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:50,800 I love her. 823 00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:51,800 I love her. 824 00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:52,800 I love her. 825 00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:53,800 I love her. 826 00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:54,800 I love her. 827 00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:55,800 I love her. 828 00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:56,800 I love her. 829 00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:57,800 I love her. 830 00:54:57,800 --> 00:54:58,800 I love her. 831 00:54:58,800 --> 00:54:59,800 I love her. 832 00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:00,800 I love her. 833 00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:01,800 I love her. 834 00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:11,800 I love her and guide her through the night with a light from above, from the mountains, 835 00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:22,800 to the prairies, to the oceans, white with foam. 836 00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:26,200 God bless America. 837 00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:32,880 My home sweet home 838 00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:37,880 God bless America 839 00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:44,680 My home sweet home 840 00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:50,280 God bless America 841 00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:55,280 Land that I love 842 00:55:55,280 --> 00:56:01,280 Stand beside her and guide her 843 00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:07,280 Through the night with the light from above 844 00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:13,280 From the mountains to the prairies 845 00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:20,280 To the oceans, night with foam 846 00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:25,280 God bless America 847 00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:31,280 My home sweet home 848 00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:36,280 God bless America 849 00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:45,280 My home sweet home