1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,960 All across America and around the world, this is Veterans Radio. 2 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:19,440 And now, your host for today's program, Dale Throneberry. 3 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:23,520 Welcome to Veterans Radio. 4 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:28,040 My name is Dale Throneberry, a CW-2 helicopter pilot in Vietnam. 5 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:32,240 Welcome to our program this couple of days just before Christmas 2024. 6 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:33,240 Oh, in Malia. 7 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,360 I'm not sure how that got here so quickly. 8 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:38,160 But I'm really excited to have you here. 9 00:00:38,160 --> 00:00:39,640 We've got two great guests today. 10 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,400 The first one is going to be Richard Sherman. 11 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:48,920 And he's written a book about, actually, it's a book of photographs of all of the cemeteries 12 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:55,480 overseas where all of the military people who were killed overseas are. 13 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:57,520 And it's a great story. 14 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,000 I'm anxious to talk with them about it. 15 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,520 It's entitled, Never Home is part of it. 16 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,480 It's honoring heroes who never returned. 17 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,320 Excuse me, I've got to get this right. 18 00:01:09,320 --> 00:01:11,320 And so I'm really excited to talk with him. 19 00:01:11,320 --> 00:01:16,480 In the second half of the program, we've got another gentleman. 20 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:20,360 His name is Bob, well, Robert Colella. 21 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:21,720 And he is an Army veteran. 22 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:27,320 And he's going to be talking about his two tours in Iraq and what he's been doing, trying 23 00:01:27,320 --> 00:01:31,440 to help this generation of veterans record their stories. 24 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:32,600 So stick around. 25 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,480 I think I'm going to find this rather interesting today. 26 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:36,480 All right. 27 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:39,360 So, you know, we always have to start the program, I think, in our sponsors because 28 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,800 we can't do this program without their support. 29 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,000 And we really do appreciate them. 30 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,360 So number one, of course, is legal help for veterans. 31 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,920 Legal help for veterans specializes in veterans disability claims. 32 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:57,240 So call Legal Help for Veterans at 800-693-4800 or go to their website. 33 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:00,240 That's legalhelpforveterans.com. 34 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:05,800 The National Veterans Business Development Council, better known as NVBDC, is the nation's 35 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:10,160 leading third party authority for the certification of veteran-owned businesses. 36 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:15,360 For more information, you can go to their website, NVBDC.org, or give them a call at 37 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:18,920 888-237-8433. 38 00:02:18,920 --> 00:02:24,640 Remember out there, all of you veteran-owned business owners, if you want to do business 39 00:02:24,640 --> 00:02:28,800 with the federal government, you've got to be certified as a real live veteran-owned 40 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:29,800 business. 41 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,080 And there's kind of a process that you have to go through. 42 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:36,480 And this is what the National Veterans Business Development Council does. 43 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:38,280 They'll help you through that process. 44 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:43,760 Again, that number is 888-237-8433. 45 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:50,200 Pure Clean, known as the paramedics of property damage, Pure Clean provides water damage 46 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:55,440 remediation, flood water removal, fire and smoke damage remediation, mold removal, and 47 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:59,560 biohazard cleanup to commercial and residential customers. 48 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:04,120 The reason we're talking Pure Clean around here is that they're also one of the nation's 49 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:08,960 leading restoration franchise networks, and it's made up of Ventrum Newers, just like 50 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:13,520 you, and veterans get 25% off their franchise fee. 51 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:18,600 So for more information, go to pureclean.com. 52 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,400 The Charles S. Kettles VA Medical Center here in Ann Arbor. 53 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,440 For more information, go to va.gov. 54 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,200 Slash Ann Arbor Healthcare. 55 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,720 And the National Vietnam Veterans of America. 56 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,800 Never again will one generation of veterans abandon another. 57 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,920 For more information, go to their website, vva.org. 58 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:41,800 On a local level, we've got Irwin Press, Core in American Legion Post 46, and the Charles 59 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:46,640 S. Kettles Vietnam Veterans of America, Chapter 310, both of Ann Arbor, Michigan. 60 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:51,920 If you'd like to support Veterans Radio, please go to our website, veteransradio.org. 61 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,520 Click on the donate button, and thank you in advance. 62 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:55,720 Make it a good year. 63 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:56,720 We're really excited. 64 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,160 Okay, and into the program now. 65 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:05,200 All right, so number one is I want to bring him right on, and then we'll talk about how 66 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:10,920 what he did to preserve, you know, the American military history, I think. 67 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,960 So I want to bring on Navy veteran Richard Sherman. 68 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:15,920 So Richard, welcome to Veterans Radio. 69 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:17,400 Bill, thank you very much. 70 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:18,400 It's great to be with you. 71 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:24,960 Well, all right, so this idea of your book, and maybe you can describe the book to our 72 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:26,560 audience first, and we'll get into that. 73 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,160 So why don't you tell me what is in your story? 74 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:34,880 The book is Never Home, Remembering the Military Heroes Who Never Returned, and it honors the 75 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:41,480 men and women who died in World War I and World War II, and who are interred overseas, 76 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,360 thus the title Never Home. 77 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:51,320 So there's some 207,000 or more individuals that are memorialized in the 23 American overseas 78 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,760 military cemeteries, and those cemeteries are maintained by a magnificent organization 79 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,320 known as the American Battle Monuments Commission. 80 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:02,400 As we were talking about beforehand, Dale, before the show started, these are immaculately 81 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:08,960 maintained cemeteries and final resting places for over 200,000 of our brethren. 82 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,680 Of course, most folks know Normandy, but there are 22 others, and they're located on three 83 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:14,080 continents. 84 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:16,840 In the book, I travel to all these cemeteries. 85 00:05:16,840 --> 00:05:21,240 I'm a professional photographer, and I wanted to go on this journey of gratitude and go 86 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:26,640 and thank the individuals that I've never met for the freedoms and the privileges that 87 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:28,720 I enjoy in my life today. 88 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:34,120 And I decided to bring my camera gear along with me so that I could bring others and share 89 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,720 the images with all of you. 90 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,720 So the book has about, it has 240 pages. 91 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,120 It has over 225 photographs. 92 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:47,200 The overwhelming majority are the ones that I've photographed, but there are also 54 distinct 93 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:54,400 biographies in chapter two that tell the brief stories, the brief histories of the individuals 94 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,120 who never made it home. 95 00:05:56,120 --> 00:06:03,120 Some of them, unfortunately, are, the biographies include brothers, and in one case, the Sullivan 96 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:07,120 brothers that are memorialized over in Manila. 97 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:08,120 There are five of them. 98 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:14,120 But anyway, it has 54 biographies, and I tell a little bit about the individuals who never 99 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:15,120 made it home. 100 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:19,080 The faces, the pictures of those individuals, of course, those are not my pictures. 101 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:24,200 They've gotten through public sources, many of them from families, some of them from newspapers 102 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:25,200 and other sources. 103 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,200 So the book has 225 plus photographs. 104 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:33,400 It has 54 biographies, and it honors a World War I and World War II individuals who have 105 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:34,400 never made it home. 106 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:39,160 Well, you can tell when you look at the pictures in this book that they are done by a professional. 107 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:45,280 So you've really got a great eye, I must say, of the ones that I saw. 108 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:46,560 How did this whole thing start? 109 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,120 How did you decide that you were going to do this? 110 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:50,120 What motivated you? 111 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:55,800 Well, you know, like you and your listeners, I'm a veteran, and so the stories of those 112 00:06:55,800 --> 00:07:01,240 who have gone before us are served as a part of our culture, a part of our motivation in 113 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:05,560 our service is to honor those who have gone before us and who've served before us and 114 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:09,360 to keep up the great traditions of the Army, of the Marine Corps, the Coast Guard, the 115 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,800 Navy, the Air Force. 116 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:17,880 So after leaving active duty, I was worked at the Pentagon for a couple of years as a 117 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:23,880 reservist, and that culture really never really leaves us as veterans, I think. 118 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:30,360 And so I came from a lot of relatives in my family, including my father, was a Navy veteran, 119 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:36,320 but it really kind of cemented, this idea cemented itself in 2007 when I was working 120 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:41,160 at that time in the financial services career, and I met a, I traveled to Vancouver, Canada 121 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:45,000 for a conference and I got into a cab and I liked to chat. 122 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:51,680 So I was speaking to the cab driver, I jumped in and, you know, in 2007 was a time when 123 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:57,280 we were in Gulf War II and the Canadians had a different perspective on the war than we 124 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:58,280 did. 125 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,720 And so the cabbie said, hey, you know, where are you coming in from? 126 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,920 I said, New York, I said, but you know, I don't think we're so popular up here in Canada 127 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:05,920 right now. 128 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:11,200 And he said, oh no, you know, I'm a World War II veteran from Ukraine. 129 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:16,280 And we had this most fascinating conversation and he proceeded to tell me these incredible 130 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:22,680 stories from his experience serving in World War II, two of which, two pieces which stood 131 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:26,800 out and, you know, really became the background for the book. 132 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:32,680 One was, you know, here he was a young man in World War II starving, freezing, you know, 133 00:08:32,680 --> 00:08:38,560 facing the Nazi war machine in front of him, his, his brethren, the Russian Red Army beating 134 00:08:38,560 --> 00:08:43,600 them and shooting them and, you know, abusing them. 135 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,040 And you know, he was overwhelmed in telling the story. 136 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:50,720 I just remember this because he would look back in the rearview mirror and he had these 137 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:51,720 blue eyes. 138 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,040 He's probably in his 80s at the time, but blue eyes like the color of a glacier. 139 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:56,480 And we had this amazing conversation. 140 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:01,280 He said, you know, even in his 80s, you couldn't understand why the American forces, these 141 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,120 young men would leave their home. 142 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,200 They didn't need to come to the Ukraine. 143 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:06,200 Why would they come? 144 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:10,960 And he could, even in his 80s, couldn't understand, but was extremely grateful that the American 145 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,840 GI came and fought alongside them. 146 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:20,400 And so, you know, the conversation proceeded and, you know, in this backdrop of war and 147 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:27,200 death and misery and cold and, you know, these attempts to survive, he shared this very warm 148 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,680 experience, you know, when, when he was a young man in the fighting with the Red Army, 149 00:09:31,680 --> 00:09:34,040 he would only eat every four or five days. 150 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:39,280 In his own country, there was no food, it's winter, where the fields are destroyed. 151 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:43,320 And you know, it was a desperate time for them. 152 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:49,120 And here, you know, thousands of miles from home, the American forces with the logistics, 153 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:55,000 which is often overlooked by the media, the critical role of logistics in warfighting, 154 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,880 but the American troops had their rations to eat. 155 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:04,000 And against this, there was this human connection where the American GIs would share their food. 156 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:11,160 And, you know, even now, as I tell that story, I get a little emotional about it, you know, 157 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:15,600 that human connection, that, that intimacy, that brotherhood, right? 158 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,600 And so that got me thinking about, oh my, you know, how I got to do something to thank 159 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:20,600 these guys. 160 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:22,800 And that's where the background of the book started. 161 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:30,040 I, I, as I was listening to you to tell that, I'm kind of flashing back here on my own, 162 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:31,560 you know, to Vietnam. 163 00:10:31,560 --> 00:10:37,840 And then the American servicemen and women are just amazing people. 164 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:43,080 And even when I was in Vietnam, we would always share our rations with the kids that would 165 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:45,760 come running around. 166 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:49,400 Sometimes you'd go into a village and the people were starving and, you know, we'd 167 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:53,480 end up giving them our C rations, especially the ones that we didn't want. 168 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:54,480 What? 169 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:55,480 Food is food. 170 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:56,480 Yeah. 171 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,240 And I was thinking about that. 172 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:02,920 And there's a, there's a book out there that's called, it's called A Thousand Tears Falling 173 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:07,800 by a Vietnamese woman named Young Crawl, K-R-A-L-L. 174 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:12,480 And she was, ended up being kind of a spy for the North and the South Vietnamese and 175 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:13,840 all this other stuff. 176 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:17,280 But the gist of the book was telling her story. 177 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:22,840 And at the end of our interview that we did, probably 15 years ago now, she said, I still 178 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:23,840 want to thank the Americans. 179 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,160 And we said, you know, I said, what? 180 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:27,160 What did we do? 181 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:33,280 And she says, you gave us 10 years of freedom that we had never had in a thousand years. 182 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:37,720 And I thought, you know, at the time, and just as you mentioned, I'm thinking all over 183 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,720 again, it made it worth it. 184 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:41,720 Yeah. 185 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:42,720 Yeah. 186 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:47,760 And all the bad images, all the bad stories, all the bad welcome homes and all that other 187 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:48,760 stuff. 188 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:52,080 Here is this Vietnamese woman that says it was worth it. 189 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,040 And so grateful for that. 190 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:59,320 So how did you get through all of these cemeteries? 191 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,680 Well, you know, let's see. 192 00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:05,400 I guess 2007, I told the story about the Ukrainian cab driver, right? 193 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:11,360 And then fast forward, changed your career, started studying photography, did a few mentorships 194 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:12,960 with some professional photographers. 195 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:15,040 And now it's 2017. 196 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:19,800 And I believe my skill level has gotten to the stage where I can do something. 197 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:24,080 And so I engage a woman who's very well known named Mary Virginia Swanson. 198 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:30,200 She is the consultant on creating photography books for some very famous photographers as 199 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,600 well as, you know, less famous photographers like myself. 200 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:37,800 And we started working together in 2017 on how we would come together and put this together. 201 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:42,480 He started contacting the American Battle Monuments Commission, which I said, you know, 202 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:44,480 earlier does a great job maintaining the cemeteries. 203 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:46,720 He couldn't have been more hospitable to me. 204 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:52,160 And then in 2018, started getting on book and flights and car rentals and hotels and 205 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,400 started to travel in Memorial Day of 2018. 206 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:59,480 You know, COVID meant a couple extra years. 207 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,960 So it took me six years to go to these three continents. 208 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,000 It took eight trips to do it. 209 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,680 But you know, COVID also was a blessing in the sense that we now have 54 biographies, 210 00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:14,600 whereas maybe I would have only had half of that if I didn't have that extra time to do 211 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:15,600 the research. 212 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,520 Yeah, so, you know, just started working with the American Battle Monuments Commission. 213 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:24,200 I had this idea that the biographies obviously is a number of Medal of Honor recipients. 214 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:25,840 There are generals or artillerymen. 215 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:27,000 There's infantrymen. 216 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:31,280 But it also includes other groups because they wanted it to be relatable to not just 217 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:37,960 the veterans that have served, but also to the civilians who could understand or relate 218 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:45,120 a little bit better to some of the other fields that we have in our army and Navy and services. 219 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:46,640 Also there's a number of doctors. 220 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,160 There are a number of nurses, ambulance drivers. 221 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:54,840 There's some OSS, which was a predecessor of the CIA, spies that were involved, women 222 00:13:54,840 --> 00:14:00,400 who worked for the Red Cross Canteen Service, for example. 223 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:05,920 You know, so they're not just the trigger puller and the warfighter, but those are in 224 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:10,560 support and logistics, merchant mariners as well that are in there that go into this 225 00:14:10,560 --> 00:14:18,400 whole machine, this whole organization that allows us to be effective in combat. 226 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:20,720 I know, I did. 227 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:25,680 What was so, you know, many of us, I'm sure many people listening to this have been to 228 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:30,920 a national cemetery of some kind, you know, whether it's Arlington or any of the other 229 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:32,840 ones that are across the country. 230 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:37,520 And you know, somehow they're beautiful in their own way. 231 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:43,320 Of course, they're a little depressing sometimes when you, you know, these perfect rows just 232 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,640 roll upon roll and you think about the sacrifice. 233 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:51,680 And I think this is one of the things that we talked about earlier on is that I think 234 00:14:51,680 --> 00:15:00,440 you and I are afraid that the newest generation of Americans coming up don't know these stories. 235 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:05,560 You know, they don't get an opportunity to learn about it in school as much because 236 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:10,440 everything seems to be more toward the STEM projects and, you know, history has been kind 237 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:17,640 of laid around with in various educational ways in various states. 238 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:21,920 And you know, you don't get to all of these things sometimes during the year. 239 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:26,280 And I was just, I just think that this book is so important. 240 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:31,400 I mean, you know, some people are oral learners and some people are visual learners. 241 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:37,480 Because sometimes they just don't get it when a teacher talks about Normandy and what was 242 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:38,600 occurring there. 243 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:43,840 But if they can see the pictures of the results of Normandy and I can, you know, you said 244 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:52,920 there over 207,000, you know, veterans in these cemeteries across the world. 245 00:15:52,920 --> 00:16:00,960 It kind of gives you an idea of the sacrifices that were paid and how many of those 207,000 246 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:08,600 had families and how many of those 207,000 had wives and had children who never, you 247 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:10,600 know, got to see them again. 248 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,160 Those are the things that I keep thinking about. 249 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:14,160 Yeah. 250 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:18,080 I would say there's so much unpacked there and I know we are time is limited, but I would 251 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:23,800 agree with you across the board and everything you really said there about your lack of really, 252 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,200 you know, really teaching the individual histories. 253 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:30,760 We may know a little bit about Normandy or D-Day or Relay or a little bit of high school. 254 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:35,560 But this book, like what you do is really, you know, about connecting to individuals 255 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:40,680 and people and they had, as you mentioned, loved ones and people that they loved and 256 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:41,840 they never made it home. 257 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:47,320 And that's, you know, we can talk all about in the media or in TV or whatever and talk 258 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,600 all about, you know, war fighting. 259 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,560 But it's a very, as you know, being a Vietnam veteran and I'm a Gulf War veteran, it's a 260 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:55,040 very intimate experience. 261 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:58,400 It's not about, you know, global perspectives and communism. 262 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,680 It's about getting through day to day and getting your job done and taking care of the 263 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,600 people around you and hopefully coming back at night. 264 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,640 So yeah, I think this is a humanist story. 265 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:10,040 This book is a humanist endeavor. 266 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:11,160 It's not really a history book. 267 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:12,160 There are incredible history books. 268 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,280 We were talking about some of them before. 269 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,400 There's many that your listeners have read and can recommend. 270 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,240 This is really about connecting to their lives. 271 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:23,280 And so the histories, the personal histories, I wanted to try to tell a little bit about 272 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:24,440 something about them. 273 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:30,640 You know, they, about their families, Charlie, Charles Summers, the first killed in action 274 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,880 in Europe of the American troops. 275 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:39,120 He was in six days, he was six days from coming home and getting married when he was killed. 276 00:17:39,120 --> 00:17:40,520 He was an aviator. 277 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,720 Part of an aviation team was shot down searching for submarines in the North Sea. 278 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:49,200 You know, try to share just an individual about an individual piece about their lives 279 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:53,200 and not just they were part of this unit and this unit took that hill or they won this 280 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:54,200 battle. 281 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:58,680 And so there's nothing about this person because, you know, we owe it to them and we do have 282 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:06,480 a responsibility of our age is to help these younger folks understand the costs and sacrifice 283 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:07,480 of war. 284 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:09,360 Citizenship comes with great responsibilities. 285 00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:10,920 We talk a lot about our rights today. 286 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,520 You know, we hear about, we have a right, we have a right and that's important. 287 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:15,840 We have to guard and protect our rights 100%. 288 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:17,200 I'm 100% behind it. 289 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,280 But we also have to remember the responsibilities that come with citizenship. 290 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,520 We had the draft three times the last century. 291 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:24,640 Yes, I know well about that. 292 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:25,840 You know well, right? 293 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,040 And we're 25 years into this century. 294 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,480 Well we go the next 75 without having a draft. 295 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,400 I hope so, but something tells me we won't. 296 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:38,600 And so we have to do our best to share our experiences. 297 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,160 And you know, the younger generation, they're very much visual learners as well. 298 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:48,920 And so photography lends itself very well for them to understand and to learn about 299 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:50,000 this experience. 300 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:58,040 What would you say was the most, I don't know, the overseas cemetery that just struck you 301 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:01,440 the most, you know, with its beauty or its meaning? 302 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:06,720 I know that's kind of, that's out of left field, but I just was thinking about that. 303 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:08,800 Yes, I'm going to say yes. 304 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,000 Good, we got it. 305 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:15,840 You know, I had the privilege of going to Normandy twice, including having a press pass 306 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:21,680 for the 75th anniversary, the American Battle Monument, working with the American, I was 307 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:23,640 lucky to get a press pass. 308 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:28,800 So there I am going in with BBC and you know, NBC News, and then there's me with my camera 309 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:29,800 gear going in. 310 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:31,080 And that was kind of a cool experience. 311 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:36,520 But to be there and in front of the, I think there's a two page spread in the book of a 312 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:42,000 number of the veterans in their wheelchairs or the seats that they provided for them. 313 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,600 Many of them could still walk, some of them could not. 314 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:46,360 But it was, it's a very organic photo. 315 00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:47,720 It's not a posed photo. 316 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,280 They're at the ceremony. 317 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:55,080 But to be, you know, that was an, I mean, that's a life changing experience to be in 318 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,680 their presence at the 75th. 319 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:02,880 So it's, you know, and so that would be the one I would have to identify is that that 320 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:03,880 stays with me. 321 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,640 And I think about it all the time. 322 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:10,640 And I was just thinking, you know, when we talked earlier, we had a gentleman over here 323 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:17,920 locally who wrote a book about there were 76 Vietnam killed or Vietnam deaths from our 324 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,320 local county here, Washtenaw County in Michigan. 325 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:26,800 And a friend of mine, John Kensinger wrote a book about each one of those gentlemen trying 326 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:33,200 to, you know, who are these, you know, and, you know, somebody were 18 years old, 19 years 327 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:34,200 old and so forth. 328 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,920 And they went to local high schools and everything. 329 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:42,760 And in the story, though, he had put down where they were buried. 330 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:46,440 And my wife and I kind of decided we're going to have a little project. 331 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:52,320 And so we went out and we attempted to find all of those tombstones. 332 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:57,560 And most of them were government provided and they're in the ground, which is, you know, 333 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,280 tough to find sometimes in some of these places because they didn't obviously get the care 334 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,280 that they do at the national cemeteries. 335 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:10,000 And so when we were talking about this, I said, I got to figure out how to get these 336 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:16,400 pictures that we took together with the stories that John wrote about these people. 337 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:23,840 And I just got an email this morning, actually, from a gentleman in Toledo, Ohio, who goes 338 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,760 around cleaning veterans gravestones. 339 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,600 And I know that this is something that started to happen around the world, I mean, around 340 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,400 the country over the last couple of years. 341 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:39,880 But I'm saying this is like cosmic something's going on here. 342 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,160 All these things that are happening. 343 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,760 So we were talking with Richard Sherman here. 344 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:49,600 He's the author of the book, Never Home, Remembering the Military Heroes Who Never Returned. 345 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:51,840 And it's a beautiful, beautiful book. 346 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:56,040 And I really encourage people to go and get it. 347 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:57,800 Where can we get this? 348 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:06,280 So the website with all the pictures and the background in my travels is neverhomeheroes.com. 349 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:12,640 And I will say, thank you, Dale, for that opportunity to talk about the selling of the 350 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:13,640 book. 351 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,480 But there's two things that I really want to emphasize here that I'm extremely proud of. 352 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,160 One is that we printed it in the United States of America. 353 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:24,760 It's much cheaper to print it in Korea or China, but this had to be done. 354 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,680 It was printed in Wisconsin, and Warzala is a printer. 355 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,200 They did a magnificent job. 356 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,880 W-O-R-Z-A-L-L-A. 357 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,120 They were extremely supportive of this project. 358 00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:36,240 And so I'm grateful for them. 359 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:37,680 And we got it printed in the United States. 360 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,240 It costs more, but this is an American project. 361 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:45,640 And the other thing that's really proud of is that it's hard to buy a photography book 362 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,440 for less than $50 or $60 today. 363 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,440 And we've kept this price under $30. 364 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:55,480 It's $29.50 because we wanted this to be accessible to everyone. 365 00:22:55,480 --> 00:23:01,800 It wasn't just folks of significant means or it's not just a corporate project, but 366 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:06,640 it has to be accessible to everyone because it's the stories that I want to get out. 367 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:08,440 It's not the money that I want to get. 368 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:09,440 It's the stories that I want. 369 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:10,960 If the money comes, the money comes. 370 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,720 It's cost a lot of money out of my own pocket to go do this, but it's a journey of gratitude. 371 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,600 And I was honored to do that. 372 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,560 So we've kept this price as low as possible. 373 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,680 We print it in the United States because it's the stories. 374 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,520 That's the goal of the project is to get the stories out. 375 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,640 The goal of the project is not a commercial goal. 376 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:29,640 It's to get these stories out. 377 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:34,000 And so we're very proud to have it printed in the United States by Warzalla and to have 378 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,920 it at a price point that's accessible to people. 379 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,720 Where do I buy the book? 380 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:45,120 You can go to www.neverhomeheroes.com and there's a, you just click on it and it says buy the 381 00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:49,080 book and it takes you to buy the book page and it'll take you through that process. 382 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:50,080 Okay. 383 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:51,080 All right. 384 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,560 I want to make sure that we can get ahold of the copy of this book. 385 00:23:54,560 --> 00:24:02,400 That's the whole point here today is to make sure that people do this because I'm so grateful 386 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:08,200 to, you know, to, you know, that you reached out to us here at Veterans Radio and, you 387 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:09,520 know, to tell your story. 388 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,800 And then, you know, there's a whole lot more of this background to this story. 389 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,920 And unfortunately, I don't have time to go into in your background as far as the Navy 390 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,080 and your family and so on and so forth. 391 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,360 But it's just great. 392 00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:27,400 You know, you mentioned, we've got about three or four minutes here left, I'm not done with 393 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,080 you yet. 394 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:36,640 You mentioned that you did approximately 50, 54 biographies in there. 395 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:40,720 Can you tell us about one of them that really stood out for you? 396 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:45,320 Well, I mean, there's a number of them that are really important. 397 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,600 I don't think that there's 54 that are important. 398 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:48,600 They're all important, right? 399 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,240 I never thought I could do more. 400 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,600 And then, you know, my wife eventually had to corral me and said, look, you got to get 401 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,400 the book published, stop doing research on biographies, get the book out because they 402 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:57,960 all deserve to remember. 403 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,440 You know, I love to talk about the tester brothers just for a second. 404 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:07,040 They're three brothers that are interred, buried side by side in Henri Chappelle. 405 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:13,920 Like a number of our cemeteries have brothers, a sad, I don't know the total number, but 406 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,880 have a large number of brothers laying side by side next to each other. 407 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:22,240 Unfortunately for the tester brothers, three of them, the only three brothers that are 408 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,240 side by side in any of the cemeteries. 409 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,560 And it's in Henri Chappelle in Belgium. 410 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,880 And so the tester family was living in Tennessee. 411 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:36,280 And unfortunately in 1942, Mr. Tester passed away as well as one of the sons. 412 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,960 One had cancer, one had a heart condition. 413 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:45,400 And lo and behold, over the next three years, the Eliza tester, the mother, saw three of 414 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,240 her remaining four sons leave for war. 415 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:57,400 In 1943, in 1944, in 1945, on that homestead, on that farm, she received a telegram from 416 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:03,400 the United States Army indicating that her three of her sons had passed away in each 417 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,200 of the three years. 418 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:07,920 Which is an extraordinary story. 419 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:12,160 Glenn Tester was the youngest of the three brothers, but he was the only one of the three 420 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:13,440 that was married. 421 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,200 So Glenn Tester had a son. 422 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:22,080 And when Glenn Tester passed away, his son was a year and a half old. 423 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:26,200 And so Glenn Tester's son is named Frank Tester. 424 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,000 Frank Tester lives in Modesto, California. 425 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:35,240 And it has been an extraordinary privilege in my life to have spoken and exchanged emails 426 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:36,640 and chat it with Frank Tester. 427 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:41,280 He shared some of the photos of his father from their archives, which is in the book. 428 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:48,480 And I'll try not to get emotional here, but in my experience with him, here he is, he's 429 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,280 in his 80s now. 430 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,760 And he's shared that he's just wanted to meet his father. 431 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:59,280 And he has, he's a man of faith, and he has his belief that soon he will get a chance 432 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,320 to meet his father. 433 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:07,120 Because I mean, over the course of eight decades, the toll of war, we have, unfortunately for 434 00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:11,600 the Vietnam veterans, your experience coming home wasn't like it was for us in the Gulf 435 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,080 War, the First Gulf War. 436 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:14,080 People said, thank you. 437 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:15,440 Thank you for your service. 438 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,000 And they say that today, which is we're lucky. 439 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:20,720 But the toll of war also includes families. 440 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:26,560 I think we have to start thanking families for their service to the nation as well, of 441 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,760 husband or wives who are back home raising their children and the sacrifices that family 442 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:30,760 make implicitly. 443 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:35,360 So the Testar brothers lay side by side at Henri Chappelle, and it's an extraordinary 444 00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:39,400 story and it's added immeasurably to my life to know Frank Tester. 445 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:47,280 I can only imagine, you know, I thought of this very belatedly in that my mother, my 446 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,680 mother, my dad was in World War II. 447 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,600 He was in the Coast Guard of all things. 448 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,640 And he figured that he was older. 449 00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:03,120 He was 40, 39 when he joined up, and because I think they were drafting to 40. 450 00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:08,640 And he says, I cannot be in the infantry and tools for this stuff. 451 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,360 And he figured, you know, I'll guard the coast. 452 00:28:10,360 --> 00:28:16,160 Well, he ended up guarding the coast of Imajima in Okinawa and ship was hit by a kamikaze 453 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:21,280 and all these different things, which I never knew until actually I started doing this radio 454 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:22,280 program. 455 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,400 But I was thinking about what my mother must have gone through with him being gone for 456 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:27,960 two years. 457 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:34,240 And then not 20 years later, I go off for a year. 458 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,280 My father had unfortunately died in the meantime. 459 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,280 So here she is going through it one time and now she's going through it again. 460 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,320 And I never thought about that. 461 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,680 And I think that, you know, maybe for all those veterans that are out there, at least 462 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,800 for my generation, you know, if your mom is still alive, you better go thank her. 463 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:52,800 Yeah. 464 00:28:52,800 --> 00:29:00,560 And I'll first, you know, believing in you and hoping that you're alive every day, that 465 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:05,920 you're gone because, you know, mail took forever to get from one place to another. 466 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:13,480 So I just think that, you know, in this book, I think people, when they look at it and they 467 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:18,040 look at the pictures and they read those biographies that you put in there, they're all going 468 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,520 to be able to relate to it somehow. 469 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,160 Well, I certainly hope so. 470 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,640 And by the way, I love the Coast Guard, did some service with the Coast Guard. 471 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,360 Those guys are extraordinary. 472 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:32,360 And you know, during the wars, we have a number of Coast Guardsmen in the book. 473 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:37,200 And you know, in World War I, in fact, the USS Tampa, which was a Coast Guard cutter 474 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:44,600 renamed and be provisioned for the Navy, they went down off of the coast of England. 475 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:50,440 And by that one sinking of loan in 1918, the Coast Guard had the greatest number as a percentage 476 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,120 of total forces. 477 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:57,120 The greatest percentage loss of forces of any of our services in World War I was the Coast 478 00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,960 Guard with just the single sinking of that ship. 479 00:29:59,960 --> 00:30:03,520 In addition to the other casualties that they suffered. 480 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,760 But the Coast Guard is incredible even to this day, the multitude of their mission. 481 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,440 As a Navy guy, I'm just to have so much respect for their op tempo. 482 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:10,920 They're always operational. 483 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,760 And the experience they have from their junior enlisted to their junior officers, to their 484 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,000 senior admirals is extraordinary. 485 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,560 So yeah, but the families are important. 486 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,280 And hopefully, that's, you know, thank you for your service. 487 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:26,080 In 50 years time, people are saying that also to those who are at home as well. 488 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:27,080 Right. 489 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:31,400 To them and everybody else that's concerned. 490 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,040 I'm going to keep you on if you don't mind for a little bit, because my other guest has 491 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:36,920 not signed in yet. 492 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:42,560 And you know, you mentioned the Tesla brothers, you mentioned the Sullivan brothers too. 493 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:48,880 I mean, that's another whole family that was, you know, wiped out in a Navy. 494 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,720 You know, just, I don't know what kind of ship it was that was sunk. 495 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:58,600 But yeah, the the solvents were went down on a destroyer. 496 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:06,640 They couple of the brothers, the five Sullivan brothers were killed in the battle of Guadalcanal. 497 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:07,760 And they all went down. 498 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:09,040 They were all in the same ship. 499 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:17,720 So a couple of the brothers had served in the late 30s, early 40s, and had been gotten 500 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:19,760 off of active duty before we had gone to war. 501 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,480 And then Pearl Harbor happened. 502 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:28,000 And one of their friends was killed on the USS Arizona at Pearl Harbor. 503 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:33,680 And so the five brothers decided to enlist together and to do their duty. 504 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:39,000 The one thing that they asked of the Navy, unfortunately, was that they all serve aboard 505 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,200 the same ship. 506 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:47,640 So in January of 1942, they enlisted, they would not make it through the end of the year. 507 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:54,320 They ended up their hit their ship was hit by a Japanese torpedo. 508 00:31:54,320 --> 00:32:01,880 And then in retreating to a safe area where it's hit again, and the ship sunk in 42 seconds, 509 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:03,520 killing most aboard. 510 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:04,920 Some of them survived for a couple of days. 511 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:09,920 The oldest of the Sullivan brothers apparently survived on a rafts, their stories, but either 512 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:16,360 died, you know, from being at sea for a long time or lost his mind or what have you, but 513 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:17,360 it's not clear. 514 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:18,400 They all die. 515 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:24,320 And so, you know, they it's an extraordinary story that the media and the Department of 516 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,720 Defense made a big deal out of it because they were family was doing their duty, right? 517 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:33,160 That was an extraordinary commitment to nationalism and patriotism, excuse me, not national, but 518 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,080 patriotism by the family. 519 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:41,800 And even after their the boys were lost, their family continued to travel and tour the country, 520 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:43,520 helping to raise war bonds. 521 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:48,240 And their sister served as a wave, even after the five brothers had had passed away, an 522 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:52,880 extraordinary, extraordinarily patriotic family, true and true. 523 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,560 And even after losing their sons, they continued to help with the war efforts. 524 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,600 They are memorialized at Manila American Cemetery. 525 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:04,440 We have one cemetery in Asia, Manila American Cemetery, of course, this is in the Philippines. 526 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,880 It is our largest by total number memorial allies. 527 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:17,920 There are some 17,000 headstones at Manila over, well over twice as many as they are 528 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:18,920 at Normandy. 529 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:19,920 Well, hang on a second. 530 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:20,920 There are 17,000. 531 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:22,240 There are about twice as many. 532 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,040 Yeah, it would be 18,600 if you doubled it. 533 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:29,000 So just under twice as many, I should correct myself at Manila, but it's enormous cemetery 534 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:34,280 and they have those the walls of the missing go on and on the Indianapolis, you know, 535 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,840 who brought the the material for the they're listed there. 536 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:43,200 As well as the Sullivan brothers are on the walls of the missing and that image appears 537 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,200 in the in the book as well. 538 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,120 Well, again, I want to thank you. 539 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,280 We've been talking here with Richard Sherman. 540 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,720 The book is Never Home. 541 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,080 Remembering Heroes Who Never Returned. 542 00:33:55,080 --> 00:34:00,080 You can get the book by going to his website, which is again, NeverHomeHeroes.com. 543 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:01,080 NeverHomeHeroes.com. 544 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:07,520 And I want to thank you very much for being on our program, Richard, to have a great 545 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:08,520 holiday season. 546 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,040 It was been a real pleasure. 547 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:11,040 Thank you very much. 548 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,360 And thanks to your sponsors and to your listeners for joining today. 549 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:15,360 Okay, thank you. 550 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,840 All right, we're going to take a real quick break here and do our Medal of Honor segment. 551 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:24,800 And when we come back, we're going to be talking to Bobby Coella and his book is entitled 552 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,840 Batterford Bakuba in Iraq. 553 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:29,120 So stick around. 554 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:30,120 We'll be right back. 555 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:34,880 The Medal of Honor is the highest award for valor and combat given a member of the 556 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,040 Armed Forces of the United States. 557 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:41,920 There have been over 3,400 recipients of the nation's highest award. 558 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:42,920 This is one of them. 559 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:47,920 Such at first last, Paul Smith gave his life to protect his troops. 560 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,000 Details after this. 561 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,880 If you have a VA claim denied by the Board of Veterans Appeals, contact Legal Help for 562 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:59,120 Veterans at 1-800-693-4800. 563 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,120 They're experts in handling cases before the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims. 564 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,880 Their number again, 1-800-693-4800. 565 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:12,480 On April 4, 2003, a call went out for a place to put some Iraqi prisoners. 566 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:18,480 Sergeant First Class Paul Smith volunteered to create a holding pen inside a walled courtyard. 567 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:24,960 Soon, Iraqi soldiers, numbering perhaps 100, opened fire on Smith's position. 568 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,560 Smith was accompanied by 16 men. 569 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,680 Smith called for a Bradley, a tank-like vehicle with a rapid-fire cannon. 570 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,600 It arrived and opened up on the Iraqis. 571 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,000 The enemy could not advance so long as the Bradley was in position. 572 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:43,120 But then, in a move that baffled in angered Smith's men, the Bradley left. 573 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:47,240 Smith's men, some of whom were wounded, were suddenly vulnerable. 574 00:35:47,240 --> 00:35:50,720 Smith could have justifiably ordered his men to withdraw. 575 00:35:50,720 --> 00:35:54,840 Smith rejected that option, thinking that abandoning the courtyard would jeopardize 576 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:59,160 about 100 GIs outside, including medics at an aid station. 577 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:03,880 He manned a.50 caliber machine gun atop an abandoned armored personnel carrier and fought 578 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,840 off the Iraqis, going through several boxes of ammunition. 579 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,280 As the battle wound down, Smith was hit in the head. 580 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,240 He died before he could be evacuated from the scene. 581 00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:18,160 The Medal of Honor series is a production of Veterans Radio. 582 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,480 Military veterans touch everyone's life. 583 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:25,760 I'm guessing right now you're thinking of a veteran, a close friend, relative. 584 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:26,880 Maybe it's you. 585 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:31,640 Even the toughest of us sometimes need help, but don't know where to turn for support. 586 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,200 You don't need special training to help a veteran in your life. 587 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,080 We can all help someone going through a difficult time. 588 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,200 Learn how you can be there for veterans. 589 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,120 Visit veteranscrisisline.net. 590 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,080 Veteranscrisisline.net. 591 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:49,080 A message from the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs. 592 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:59,440 All right, we're back here on Veterans Radio, and joining me on the line right now is a 593 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,400 new friend of Veterans Radio, and I'm anxious to talk with him. 594 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:08,480 His name is, well, the book is, first Sergeant Robert Colela. 595 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:14,280 The book is entitled Battle for Bakuwa, and I'm probably pronouncing that wrong, but I'm 596 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,160 going to call him by what he tells me to call him. 597 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:17,160 That's Bobby. 598 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:18,880 So, Bobby, welcome to Veterans Radio. 599 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,000 Thank you, Dale. 600 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:22,000 Thanks. 601 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,880 First, you got my last name right, and you also got the total book right, so you're about 602 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:26,880 a thousand, man. 603 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:28,880 Appreciate you having me on, Dale. 604 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:37,440 Wait, I was, I've been practicing my linguistics here, so to make sure I get it right. 605 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:43,160 So Bobby, the story is, you know, the Battle of Bakuwa, I don't think many of us even 606 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:49,280 are familiar with that, and I guess we should back up a little bit and say, okay, so when 607 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,760 were you in the service, and how did you get to Bakuwa? 608 00:37:52,760 --> 00:38:03,600 I joined the United States Army in October of 1989, and I just worked my way through 609 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:15,600 the ranks, and, you know, as fate would have it, I did my first tour in Romadi in 2004, 610 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:23,240 2005 as a infantry platoon sergeant, also had the opportunity to fight in Operation 611 00:38:23,240 --> 00:38:26,680 Phantom Fury in November of 2004. 612 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:35,840 That was the second battle of Fallujah with the Second Infantry Division, and then from 613 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:45,280 my first tour, I redeployed and went up to Fort Hood, Texas, and became a company first 614 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:56,760 sergeant, and we had about a one-year spin-up from the time I landed at Fort Hood, about 615 00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:06,200 a year to work and train up the unit and deploy, and when we went, actually, let me back up, 616 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:10,880 I wasn't a company first sergeant during the train up, I was actually a brigade master 617 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:19,320 gunner, and during the train up phase, and all the way up to deployment into Kuwait, 618 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:23,680 and that's why I became a company first sergeant, but we didn't even know we were going to 619 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:24,880 Bakuwa. 620 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:32,720 We were being held in Kuwait as a brigade-ready reserve, or theater-ready reserve, and within 621 00:39:32,720 --> 00:39:38,640 a couple weeks of us being on the ground in Kuwait, they gave us the word that we were 622 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:47,200 going to go ahead and push north up into Bakuwa, which is about 40 miles north of Baghdad. 623 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:56,000 I had never heard of Bakuwa before, but next thing you know, we're there. 624 00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:00,160 That was right around October of 2006. 625 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:10,880 The thing I found really interesting in reading your book, Bobby, was the whole idea of the 626 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:11,880 logistics. 627 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:19,840 I don't think many people think about moving a battalion or a brigade or whatever size unit 628 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:28,680 is from Fort Hood to Kuwait and then into Iraq, and you cover quite a bit of that in 629 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:30,200 your book. 630 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:31,200 That was... 631 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:35,720 Yeah, that's a huge logistical undertaking. 632 00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:45,160 We have Bradley's tanks, heavy equipment, recovery vehicles, armored personnel carriers. 633 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:52,240 All of that has to go on railheads right there at Fort Hood, which is now Fort Kavafos, onto 634 00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:57,400 ships, and then next thing you know, they wind up in Kuwait, and then you're offloading 635 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:03,840 them in Kuwait and onto trucks and trying to get them to camp Buren, and then eventually 636 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:05,560 to push north. 637 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:11,280 More often than not, they go on trucks up into Iraq as well. 638 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,040 You don't drive them. 639 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:19,120 They get loaded up on habits or hats, and they truck them up. 640 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:25,040 Yeah, but absolutely hats off to all the logistics folks out there. 641 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:26,880 Definitely some unsung heroes there. 642 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:27,880 Absolutely. 643 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:28,880 I was thinking about that. 644 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:33,560 When I was reading the book, I was going, okay, I flew helicopters. 645 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:35,800 Well, how did the helicopters get there? 646 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:40,920 And where did all the spare parts come from and all of those types of things? 647 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:41,920 It's... 648 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,920 We really have to thank all the people in the background. 649 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:47,720 I think the story is something like... 650 00:41:47,720 --> 00:41:54,320 It takes nine people that are not on the front to support the one that's on the front. 651 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:58,000 Anyway, I just wanted to... 652 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:02,760 People want to read this story about what it takes to get this whole unit up north. 653 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:04,480 I thought that was really interesting. 654 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:11,360 And you talk about once you got to Bakuba that you were taking over for another company 655 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:12,960 that was there, correct? 656 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:14,920 Yeah, it was... 657 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:21,920 Actually there was a brigade previously in our sector, and we wound up as a battalion 658 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,000 taking over that area. 659 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:31,680 And of course, one-on-one company with the Colvery Rips or Relief in Place. 660 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:33,760 And we wound up doing... 661 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,520 It's about a two-week process to do a relief in place with the units. 662 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:45,920 And with all things said, it seemed like it was a pretty quiet... 663 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:54,160 There is some engagements and some insurgent attacks and what have you, but it originally 664 00:42:54,160 --> 00:43:00,920 didn't seem like it was going to be that big of a fight up in Bakuba, but that quickly 665 00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:07,160 changed within about a month of us taking over. 666 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:13,120 Well, I wanted to talk a little bit about before we get into the actual fighting that 667 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,480 you got involved with, was trying to transfer some of these equipment. 668 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,920 You have some stories in there about the typical army. 669 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:25,080 I can't use all of the acronyms that are listed in the book, and we'll get thrown off 670 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,640 the air if I use the true words. 671 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:33,320 But that some of the equipment that you inherited wasn't in the best condition. 672 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:35,520 No, it wasn't. 673 00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,800 A lot of the equipment... 674 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:44,880 It's just unit after unit, they have some equipment that just stays over there. 675 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:51,640 And it just gets passed from unit to unit to unit, and it just gets worn down over time. 676 00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:58,400 So you're hoping for the best, but also prepared for the worst. 677 00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:05,560 And to complicate things really, we were an infantry company, and the landholders that 678 00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:11,000 were out there that we actually did a relief in place with was an engineer company. 679 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,760 So we were actually getting equipment. 680 00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:23,560 I was signing for excavators and various engineering equipment that I had no idea how to use it 681 00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:27,320 or what have you, or did I have anybody trained on it. 682 00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:32,840 So that was kind of an interesting curveball thrown at us. 683 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:40,280 But we're infantry guys, and we adapt and overcome for sure. 684 00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:45,920 Can you kind of tell our audience, I'm talking here with Robert Koala, he's a retired first 685 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:51,120 sergeant, the book is Battle for Vakuba, it's called Killing Our Way Out. 686 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,960 Can you tell me what kind of the job of a first sergeant? 687 00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:59,000 Because I was an E3, and then I was a warrant officer. 688 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,720 I didn't know all about the people in between. 689 00:45:01,720 --> 00:45:08,120 Yeah, well, you know, the first sergeant, the big thing is that they say beans and bullets, 690 00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:09,120 right? 691 00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:14,600 And really, the most experienced noncommissioned officer in the company, I am the company commander, 692 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,600 sounding board. 693 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:22,320 We had a great relationship, I had two company commanders while I was over there. 694 00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:30,840 But really, it's taken the brunt of all the administrative stuff, all the, you know, working 695 00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:36,680 with XO with the logistics side and the maintenance and the ammo and the food and the security 696 00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:38,720 out the combat outposts. 697 00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:44,680 And, you know, just making sure that all of that is taken care of is one thing that the 698 00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:48,040 company commander should not have to worry about. 699 00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:49,520 And they can focus on the fight. 700 00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:53,720 They can focus on what the battalion commander wants them to do. 701 00:45:53,720 --> 00:45:57,640 They can focus on what the enemy is doing out in the sector. 702 00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:04,680 You know, so it's really just taking care of the troops and minimalizing the distractors 703 00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:09,440 for the company commander so he can focus on the fight and command those platoons and 704 00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:14,680 have them execute what needs to be executed out in the sector. 705 00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:20,000 In your book, you also talk about not only what occurred in Bakuba, but you also talk 706 00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,960 about some of the things that a leader has to be. 707 00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:27,160 And one of the things that you did mention was a leader has to get out in the field and 708 00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:29,880 see what's actually going on. 709 00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:35,400 And that's one of the issues that many people have with sometimes with leaders, especially 710 00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,960 in the military, who don't necessarily go out in the field with you. 711 00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:42,960 But you wanted to get out there with your men, correct? 712 00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,400 A hundred percent. 713 00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:46,880 You can't make those decisions. 714 00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:56,920 You can't be the sound of board for the company commander without having a good operational 715 00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:57,920 picture. 716 00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:04,560 And you can't get that operational picture by reading situation reports and debriefs 717 00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:05,560 and stuff like that. 718 00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:09,000 You have to go out there and you have to see the soldiers. 719 00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:14,720 You have to see, you know, to be able to look into their eyes and see the fatigue, to look 720 00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:21,200 into their eyes or have that long conversation with them while they're on guard and listen 721 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:27,160 to what the troops are telling you, what the patoon sergeants are telling you, what the 722 00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:28,920 patoon leaders are telling you. 723 00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:30,720 But you know, it's also a balance. 724 00:47:30,720 --> 00:47:34,920 You don't want to be smothering them and micromanaging. 725 00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:39,640 But at the same time, you have to find that ability to get out there, keep your finger 726 00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:47,040 on the poles, understand the area of operation, see if you can make good decisions. 727 00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:55,320 And you know, at the same time, be hands-off enough to where you're not stifling the patoon 728 00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:59,560 leaders and the patoon sergeants, let them go out and get after it like they need to. 729 00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:00,560 Right. 730 00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,560 Yeah, because, you know, the leaders don't always, don't have to be out in the field 731 00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:08,080 all the time, but it's not a bad, a bad idea if they're out there at all. 732 00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:15,440 And I know that you ran into a number of different firefights and lost a few friends over there. 733 00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:19,040 I certainly did. 734 00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:26,960 You know, our company for the fight, so we wound up on the bonus program over there. 735 00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:35,880 So, you know, the troop surge was announced in, I think, like, February, January, February 736 00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,040 timeframe, and the extension. 737 00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:47,000 So, we actually wound up doing a 15-month deployment, and within those 15 months, starting 738 00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:51,080 in December, we took our first killed in action. 739 00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:59,160 We were manning a combat outpost in a small town called Barrett, and the insurgents, you 740 00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:07,280 know, it used to be an Iraqi police station, and the insurgents ran, overran the police 741 00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:12,280 station, killed, chased off the occupants of it. 742 00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:18,200 One of our units, not my company, but our engineering company, Echo Company, went down, 743 00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:25,680 retook that ground, but our engineers were also starting to spin up and do route clearance 744 00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:29,160 missions to keep the main supply routes and what have you open. 745 00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:37,000 So, the call was made to send Bravo Company 112 down there to do a relief in place with 746 00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:45,680 War Dog, and within a couple days, December 23rd, actually, tomorrow, being the anniversary, 747 00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:50,320 is they launched an all-out attack. 748 00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:53,080 It was overcast. 749 00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:54,920 The helicopters weren't flying. 750 00:49:54,920 --> 00:50:01,440 We usually had attack aviation units that would be our angels on our shoulders, but 751 00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:03,120 the insurgents knew what they were doing. 752 00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:12,080 We were there, and they just started dropping water rounds, indirect fire, rockets, machine 753 00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:18,080 gun fire, precision fire, and they also tried to coordinate assault, to the point where 754 00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:27,720 one of our platoons were called in to do an ammo resupply, and as the tank was backing 755 00:50:27,720 --> 00:50:30,000 up to the outpost. 756 00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:36,280 So, to minimize exposure, minimize exposure to the dismount, so they didn't have to come 757 00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:42,600 out and get the ammunition, as they were backing up mortar rounds, landed on top of 758 00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:48,400 the tank and killed the gunner, Corporal Barda. 759 00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:57,520 That was our first kill done action that day, and it also disabled the tank. 760 00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:00,960 It was a pretty tough fight. 761 00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:07,080 That was kind of like the moment in time where we knew a lot of things had shifted when insurgents 762 00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:10,040 were doing a coordinate attack. 763 00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:18,240 They were able to drop, in our company logs, we lost count at, I believe, 77 indirect rounds 764 00:51:18,240 --> 00:51:19,640 and do a coordinated attack. 765 00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:25,280 It was like, hey, these insurgents are well-equipped, well-trained. 766 00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,160 They knew what they were doing. 767 00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:29,640 They knew business, man. 768 00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:30,640 They knew business. 769 00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:35,320 Well, we're running out of time, unfortunately, Bob. 770 00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:37,280 And I got to get you in to talk about it. 771 00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,640 I only have a minute left for you to talk about it. 772 00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:42,440 But that is your debrief project. 773 00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:44,320 Can you tell me what you're doing with that? 774 00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,560 Yeah, so the debrief project. 775 00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:51,560 So, our company, we lost 14 people out of our company. 776 00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:55,040 I think 28 or 29 people out of our battalion. 777 00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:58,040 It was a pretty kinetic fight. 778 00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:00,560 We never really had a chance to talk about it. 779 00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:05,160 And writing my book, I found healing and storytelling. 780 00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:12,920 And just to encapsulate, I want to give everyone an opportunity to share their stories. 781 00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:19,640 So I'm focused on going around debriefing with soldiers from my company, my battalion, 782 00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:25,760 sniper teams, special forces, 520 infantry that came up and supported us during the troop 783 00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:27,760 surge, and the aviators. 784 00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:35,280 So I'm going to travel around the country, giving people an opportunity, long-form opportunity, 785 00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:43,800 sit down hours, two, three hours to tell their story and their view of their military 786 00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:48,440 career and, of course, the fight in Baku because it was such a pivotal battle. 787 00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:53,760 That was a place where the insurgency's backbone was broken during the troop surge. 788 00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:57,760 And it was really the insurgents' alamo. 789 00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:58,880 And we crossed them, man. 790 00:52:58,880 --> 00:52:59,880 We did. 791 00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:01,800 And it's a story that needs to be told. 792 00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:04,360 And we just released a press release. 793 00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:07,040 We're hoping to get a documentary going. 794 00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:10,480 We would like to get some support with the documentary. 795 00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:13,520 As I'm doing these interviews, they're amazing. 796 00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:15,960 You could go to our website. 797 00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:21,000 We're on YouTube, the debriefproject.org. 798 00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:26,080 We're on Facebook, YouTube, all the normal places. 799 00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:31,720 But you could get a better understanding of what our mission is and what our purpose is. 800 00:53:31,720 --> 00:53:37,480 But really, it's a huge undertaking, but it's certainly a worthy cause because there was 801 00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:43,640 an awful lot of sacrifice and there was an awful lot of heroics that it would be great 802 00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:48,520 to give these people a voice and share their story, not just their story, but their unit 803 00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:54,560 story and, of course, the barters and the other soldiers that lost their lives that 804 00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:56,560 never had a chance to come home. 805 00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:57,560 Right. 806 00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:59,560 Well, Bobby, we got to go. 807 00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:00,560 Yeah, man. 808 00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:01,560 We got to go. 809 00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:03,920 So look up the debriefproject.com. 810 00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:05,560 So we got to get out of here. 811 00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:07,920 We want to wish Merry Christmas to everybody who's listening. 812 00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:11,520 We're going to go out on a partial song that I wanted to hear play the whole thing, but 813 00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:15,880 it's called All I Want For Christmas by the U.S. Army Band. 814 00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:16,880 You Are Dismissed. 815 00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:21,880 I don't want a lot for Christmas. 816 00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:26,880 There is just one thing I need. 817 00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:35,880 I don't care about the present underneath the Christmas tree. 818 00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:44,880 I just want to form my own more than you could ever know. 819 00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:50,880 Make my wish come true. 820 00:54:50,880 --> 00:55:08,880 All I want for Christmas is you. 821 00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:11,880 I don't want a lot for Christmas. 822 00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:14,880 There is just one thing I need. 823 00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:21,880 I don't care about the present underneath the Christmas tree. 824 00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:27,880 I don't need to hang my stocking there upon the fireplace. 825 00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:33,880 Santa Claus won't make me happy with a toy on Christmas day. 826 00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:40,880 Cause I just want you for my own more than you could ever know. 827 00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:43,880 Make my wish come true. 828 00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:49,880 All I want for Christmas is you. 829 00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:52,880 You baby. 830 00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,880 I won't ask for much these Christmas. 831 00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:59,880 I won't even wish for snow. 832 00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:05,880 Just gonna keep on waiting underneath the mistletoe. 833 00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:12,880 I won't make a list and send it to the North Pole for saving. 834 00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:18,880 I won't even stay away to hear those magic reindeer kicks. 835 00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,880 Cause I just want you here tonight. 836 00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:24,880 Warming on to me so tight. 837 00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,880 What more can I do? 838 00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:34,880 All I want for Christmas is you. 839 00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:37,880 You baby. 840 00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:44,880 All the lights are shining for right here everywhere. 841 00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:50,880 And the children's time to fill the air. 842 00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:53,880 And everyone is singing. 843 00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,880 I hear those fables ringing. 844 00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,880 Santa won't drain me the one I really need. 845 00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:02,880 Won't you please bring my baby to me? 846 00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:06,880 I don't want a lot for Christmas. 847 00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:09,880 This is all I'm asking for. 848 00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:15,880 I just want to see my baby standing right outside my door. 849 00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:22,880 Cause I just want him for my whole more than you could ever know. 850 00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:25,880 Make my wish come true. 851 00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:38,880 All I want for Christmas is you. 852 00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:44,880 All I want for Christmas is you. 853 00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:50,880 All I want for Christmas is you. 854 00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:56,880 All I want for Christmas is you. 855 00:57:56,880 --> 00:58:21,880 Baby.