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All across America and around the world, this is Veterans Radio.

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And now, your host for today's program, Dale Throneberry.

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Hey, welcome to Veterans Radio.

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My name is Dale Throneberry, a CW-2 helicopter pilot in Vietnam.

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I was born about 200 years ago, 1969.

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Welcome to our program.

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Today, I'm really excited.

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My guest is Mark Liebsen.

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He's a writer for the Vietnam Veterans of America magazine, the veteran book reviewer.

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I think he writes columns, everything else over there.

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He probably cleans out the building on Friday afternoons.

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But Mark has been a friend of Veterans Radio.

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He knows all about these books that we want to talk about today.

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So I'm encouraging you to listen to our program.

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We're going to be talking about some really great gifts for the upcoming season for the

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veteran in your house or if you're a historian.

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Some of these things are going to be really cool for you, too, I think.

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So I'm encouraging you, if you do have a book that you'd like to recommend, why don't you

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give us a call during the program?

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The number is 734-822-1600.

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734-822-1600.

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Before we start our interview with Mark, let me thank our sponsors because, of course,

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we cannot do this program without these wonderful and amazing sponsors that have been supporting

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Veterans Radio for almost 21 years.

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I'm actually going on 22.

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Holy cow.

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So anyway, starting off with legal help for veterans.

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Legal help for veterans specializes in veterans disability claims.

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Call Legal Help for Veterans at 800-693-4800.

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Or go to their website, legalhelpforveterans.com.

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The National Veterans Business Development Council, better known as NVBDC, is the nation's

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leading third party authority for certification of veteran-owned businesses.

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For more information, go to their website, that's NVBDC.org, or give them a call at 888-237-8433.

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You want to do business with the federal government and many corporations today and claim that

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you are a veteran-owned business, you've got to be certified.

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And these are the folks that can help you do that.

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So if you are a veteran-owned business, legitimately a veteran-owned business, give them a call

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at that number, 888-237-8433.

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Get yourself certified.

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You're in like flint.

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PuroClean.

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PuroClean is known as the paramedics of property damage.

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They provide water damage remediation, flood water removal, fire and smoke damage remediation,

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mold removal and all kinds of biohazard cleanups.

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One of the reasons that we are so happy to have PuroClean become a sponsor here on Veterans

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Radio is they have a great franchise program.

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And actually they give you a good deal on this.

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PuroClean is one of the nation's leading restoration franchise networks and is made

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up of entrepreneurs just like you.

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And veterans get 25% off the franchise fee.

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So for more information, go to PuroClean.com.

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That's P-U-R-O-C-L-E-A-N.com.

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The Charles S. Kettles VA Medical Center here in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

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For more information, go to va.gov.

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The National Vietnam Veterans of America.

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Never again will one generation of veterans abandon another.

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For more information, go to their website, thevva.org.

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And locally the Irwin Press Corps and American Legion post 46 and the Charles S. Kettles

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Vietnam Veterans of America, Chapter 310, both of Ann Arbor, Michigan.

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If you'd like to support Veterans Radio, please go to our website, veteransradio.org, and

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click on the donate button.

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Thank you in advance.

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All right, let's get into our bookstories today.

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So as I mentioned before, my guest is Mark Leepson, and Mark is a senior writer for the

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VVA Veterans Magazine.

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That's a Vietnam Veterans of America.

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He's also the arts editor, columnist, and he's also an author of an upcoming book, which

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we'll talk about later on.

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So Mark has been writing book reviews, I don't know, or I ever would think, but I'll bring

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him right on here.

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So Mark, welcome back to Veterans Radio.

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Thanks, Dale.

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It's always great.

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I've been writing reviews for, you know, as long as you've been a helicopter pilot, like

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a good hundred years, you know.

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Yeah, we were back when we were flying, you know, Leonardo da Vinci's version of the helicopter

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sometimes.

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But it's great to have you back on the program, Mark, and I appreciate you coming on.

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You know, with the holiday season coming up, I thought this would be kind of an appropriate

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topic to talk about because there have been so many just really great books that have

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come out over the last year.

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Of course, you know, over the time, over time, maybe we could talk about some.

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So I'm going to start off by doing one that I did last week.

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And this was the book was titled Jeep Show.

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And I thought it was really fun.

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So yeah, the book is titled Jeep Show.

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It's by Robert O'Connor, and it talks about kind of talks about entertainers being sent

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up to the front lines during World War II.

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And and, you know, not an organized fashion, but usually three people and a driver would

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go up as close to the enemy lines as they could get.

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They would put on show for the troops out in the field, and then they would skedaddle

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back behind the lines.

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The the interesting thing I thought about this in addition to the historical perspective

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was that some of the names that he had mentioned were that were part of these Jeep shows were

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Mickey Rooney, Bert Lancaster, Dick Van Dyke, other entertainers, you know, many who were

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not famous yet that did this.

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So I would encourage people to check out the Jeep show.

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So your turn.

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Oh, yeah.

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Oh, you know, I was just thinking that was that called special services back in World

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War II?

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Yeah, they were all on shows.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, they even have a special MOS for it.

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Yeah.

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My uncle was in special services in Europe.

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Yeah.

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He was drafted into the army and late sort of late in the war.

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And he tells the story that my cousin who was born in February of 45 saved him from

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going over and fighting in the Battle of the Bulge because he got an emergency leave because

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his daughter was born.

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He was about to ship out.

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Oh, well, before that.

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And anyway, and he was a dancer and choreographer in New York before.

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And so when he got there, he missed the Battle of the Bulge.

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And he went to the Battle of the Bulge and he was like, oh, my God.

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And and did special and put on shows.

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Just like you said, they would come up to the front and really, really cool.

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Absolutely.

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The character in the book got caught in the Battle of the Bulge and, you know, and ended

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up, you know, having to, you know, everybody was available at that point.

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And so, you know, I gave him a rifle.

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He got separated.

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He ended up doing all kinds of different duties.

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And, you know, he said he had the privilege of meeting, you know, he got to meet Patton.

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He got to meet Eisenhower.

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He saw Marshall.

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He's, you know, I saw all these people and it's a kind of a fictionalized account of

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what really occurred.

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But yeah, I it's a it's a cool story.

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I really enjoyed reading it and then talking to the author.

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He's a good guy.

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You need to talk to him.

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Yeah.

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I put it on the list.

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So, I think looking over the year, I think the book that stood out the most and you were

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right.

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There was a good number of really good books dealing with the war and Vietnam War veteran.

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And don't forget, that's what I'm specializing in Vietnam War and Vietnam War veterans.

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But the one that stood out the most for me was this great history just called the Vietnam

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War, a military history by a University of North Texas professor named Jeffrey War.

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WRO, W-A-W-R-O.

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And you know, there's been a lot of histories of the Vietnam War.

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And I was kind of like, oh no, here comes another one.

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And you know, it wasn't it wasn't short.

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It was good 550 pages, but two two really important things.

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One is Professor Warrow is a great writer.

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You know, there was nothing stodgy about this history.

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So it really helped on a 550 page book if the guy could really write well and you wanted

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to read, you know, you wanted to keep going.

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And he calls it a military history.

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And yes, it is, but he, you know, how could you write a book about history book about

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the Vietnam War without considering the politics behind everything?

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I mean, the most political of political wars ever, you know, the big decisions by everybody

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going back, you know, to Truman and Eisenhower and including especially Kennedy, Johnson,

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Nixon, you know, almost the entire strategy was almost based on politics, you know, on

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winning the next election, what they had to do, how they had to, you know, feed, put

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out the image of being strong on communism against communism.

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But anyway, so I thought he wove together the politics and, you know, the war on the

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ground and in the air really well.

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So I'm putting that on the top of my list.

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As far as nonfiction, as far as history is concerned, it's called just simply the Vietnam

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War.

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And I've noticed that it's got another guy.

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My review is going to be in the January, sorry, in the November, December issue of the veteran,

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which is coming out next week.

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But you know, because we're bi-monthly, a lot of other reviews have appeared or several

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others and they've all been great and the book is selling well, especially for history.

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So I'm going to put that on the top of the list.

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The Vietnam, just the Vietnam War by Professor Jeffrey Wawaraw.

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W-A-W-R-O.

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Okay.

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Did you learn anything new from the book?

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You know, I don't know that I learned.

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I learned a few things.

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You know, I've studied and read and written about this war for 40 years now.

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And I think what I learned from him reinforced what I knew to a great degree.

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And also, I think that for those who haven't read the history of the war in detail, this

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would be a great book to start with.

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It's very accessible, like I said.

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It's very readable.

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It's not, you know, and it's not a political book, even though it's talking about this

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political war.

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He does take his stands on criticizing, you know, American politicians, generals, but

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he also is not easy on the other side.

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I mean, you'll read a lot of stuff about Lays Juan, for instance, and Le Duc Tho, to a lesser

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extent, Ho Chi Minh, and the other top leadership in North Vietnam that's not exactly, you know,

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favorable.

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So, I would say that I learned little bits here and there, but mostly, and he did a hell

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of a lot of research, including in Hanoi and in England.

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You know, he went to England, spent a lot of time in the British Museum Archives because

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the Brits had, if they didn't have relations, they did have a lot of correspondence going

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back and forth between their foreign office and the other side on the Vietnam War, you

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know.

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So, and he did go into Vietnamese archives, but I like that perspective, you know, where

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you're getting sort of an outside view of it, but also someone who's got information from

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the inside as far as the other side is concerned.

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So, I'm putting that on the top of the list.

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That sounds really interesting.

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Yeah.

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Let's see.

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I'll put that one over there.

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I'll put that one over in the 500 page books over there, which is kind of cool.

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One of the ones I wanted to talk about was one that you also had reviewed, and we borrowed

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it here on Veterans Radio and actually played it.

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And that was the one called The Women, which is a national bestseller out there.

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It's by Kirsten Anna, and it's sort of a, and I have it listed here also with another

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book about army nurses that were in Vietnam.

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And to me, it's sort of a story of Diane Carlson Evans with her book Healing Wounds.

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This, I don't know, it was one, you know, like you said, it was one of the books that

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I picked up and I just couldn't put it down.

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It was, you know, just, it's the story of a young woman who, for whatever reason, decides

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that she's going to join the military and wants to be a nurse and wants to go to Vietnam.

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And what she does there is she's a great, you know, great nurse, a great, I don't know,

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a great military person.

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And then it talks about her struggles when she got home.

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And it's, you know, and everybody kind of thinks, okay, well, you know, it's always

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the infantry guy that comes home and they're the ones that struggle.

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Well, I think the nurses were probably exposed to more gore and damage and anything than

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anybody in the field was.

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And I just, I really enjoyed your interview on this.

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And the book is just, it's a must read, I think, for men and women.

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It doesn't even, if you're not in the military, it's, I think it's a must read.

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100% I agree with you.

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And I first heard about the book from Diane, Diane and Carlson Evans.

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She alerted me to the book.

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I knew of Kristen Hannah's work.

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She's a, she writes really romance novels, bestsellers.

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And Diane, Kristen to her credit, you know, read Diane's book, like you said, Healing

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Wounds, which was really terrific book.

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It came out during the pandemic in 2020 and it didn't get as much publicity as it should

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have.

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But it's, it's out there and it's, it's also a good seller.

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But talk about Beth Sardale.

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I mean, the first printing of the women was one million copies.

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And it immediately, this was back in February of this year.

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And it went right to number one, stayed around number one bestselling book, you know, for

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weeks, if not months, it's still on the bestseller list.

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It's really hit a nerve.

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It really does illuminate the, what the women nurses went through in the Vietnam War and

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after of course, her Frankie, the lead character, her trials and tribulations after are almost

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worse than the mud and the blood that she was into in the Vietnam War.

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So it's a great story.

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Kristen Hannah is nothing if not a great storyteller.

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And like you said, it's a good companion piece to Diane Carlson Evans, his memoir, Healing

246
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Moons and also, you know, the first really good eye opening memoir of a Vietnam War nurse.

247
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And that was Linda van de Venters, Home Before Morning.

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You know, Linda, yeah, I mean, it's, yeah.

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And, and you know, that, that brings me to another book, but Home Before Morning, you

250
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haven't.

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It's, it's, it's, it's a book that I'm a writer is, I don't laugh, I'll cry.

252
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Oh, that was, that was my next, my next suggestion.

253
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Yeah.

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So Linda's daughter, Molly Stilman, wrote a memoir called If I Don't Laugh, I'll Cry.

255
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And boy, is it really good.

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I mean, Molly was a little girl when her, when her mom came home and she grew up and

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Linda, of course, just like Diana and just like virtually all the other nurses over there

258
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had PTSD, you know, like you said, even the guys who were in the thick of things did not

259
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see as much of, you know, of mud and blood close up as the nurses did, you're not in

260
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a daily basis, but almost on a daily basis.

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I, if you remember in, in the women, Frankie's first day, first day at the evac hospital,

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she's in it.

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And he's, you know, you know, ankle deep in it because of, you know, guys are coming

264
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in and triage and helicopter from the helicopter medivacs.

265
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So and then, so Molly's book tells her mother's story.

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Actually, she does it.

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It's great about in there about, about Linda writing the book, how she came to write it,

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there was action to the book.

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And then of course, people might probably know Linda got sick and she died at a fairly

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young age.

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And it was really, really tough on, on Molly.

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Of course, her daughter and Linda's husband, and she goes over that.

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But I say that for anybody who has read Linda's book, this one is a must too.

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If I don't laugh, I'll cry.

275
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And you know, part of it is because they had such a great sense of humor, even, even though

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Linda was going through hell physically.

277
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And so yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because that was going to be my next one to

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mentioning conjunction with the, with the women.

279
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And I feel fortunate that I knew Linda Van Van Her through my work at Vietnam Veterans

280
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of America.

281
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And she was a wonderful person, a great nurse.

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She's a nurse.

283
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She went into nursing after she came home.

284
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So did Diane Evans and their, you know, their nurses, you know, nurses, they're giving people

285
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and they're caring people.

286
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And of course, we, all of us who served in the Vietnam War owe a great debt to them and

287
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:50,800
the doctors.

288
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:51,800
Right.

289
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Absolutely.

290
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I think so.

291
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:59,600
The next one I want to talk to is I saw this little ad in the VBA magazine one time and

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00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:04,280
it's called in the shadows of Vietnam.

293
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:08,440
It's a, it's a book about Father Phillips, uh, Saloas.

294
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,040
That's why he's for Salwa.

295
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,320
I don't pronounce it correctly.

296
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:15,320
Thank you, Mark.

297
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:21,760
And it was written by two of his, his friends, Julian and, uh, I don't know where it's, where

298
00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:22,760
do you go?

299
00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:30,200
Julian Anyot, AYOTTE and Paul Carancy.

300
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And I just thought this story was great.

301
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:40,520
It's about Father Phil who was in the infantry in Vietnam and received a Silver Star for

302
00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:41,520
what he did.

303
00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:47,800
And it was one of those stories where if he kind of made this promise that if I survive,

304
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you know, I'll do whatever you tell me to do, God, I promise.

305
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:56,400
And, uh, God told me to go to the seminary and I kind of went from there, but he's always

306
00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:03,320
been involved with veterans issues over the last 60 years, like many of us.

307
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:08,960
And, uh, it was a wonderful interview that I did with him back in the spring.

308
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:14,560
And he's just, you know, he's one of those people that you could just listen to on and

309
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:19,360
on and on because he's always saying the right thing and he's always encouraging and he's

310
00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:23,200
always, you know, wanting to know what he can do to help.

311
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,040
And that's what he's been doing his whole life.

312
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:27,040
Yeah.

313
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,240
Luckily enough too, I've known Father Phil for a long time.

314
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,640
You know, he's been VVAs national chaplain all these years, decades.

315
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,920
He's a great man, a great man of God.

316
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,840
And like you said, he went through hell in Vietnam and made a battlefield promise.

317
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:45,880
God, if I get through this, I'm going to go into the clergy.

318
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:47,200
And he did.

319
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:53,880
And so, yeah, I mean, he's a great guy and that's a good, that's a good tale of his

320
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:55,880
life, that book right there.

321
00:20:55,880 --> 00:21:00,960
I think you can, you know, because the first part of the book, of course, is his experiences

322
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:01,960
in Vietnam.

323
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:09,280
And the brief part of it is that he crawled out across a battlefield and was dragging,

324
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:13,920
you know, a wounded person back more than one.

325
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,840
And so, you know, he received a silver star, which is, you know, you got to do a lot to

326
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:19,840
get one of those.

327
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:21,680
And yeah, he was cool.

328
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,120
So anyway, the book is in the shadow of Vietnam.

329
00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:29,160
I really encourage people to get that if they get the opportunity.

330
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,840
So where are we going next?

331
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:38,240
I have a list, but I need to.

332
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:42,840
Let me talk about two books real quick, both of which are, you know, I never know the

333
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:49,520
term graphic novel, you know, like a comic book, but they are, they are not, they're

334
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:50,520
novelizations.

335
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:57,080
They're both true stories, but they're not not not fictionalized through drawing and

336
00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:58,080
writing.

337
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:04,040
And one of them is called Drafted by a guy named Rick Parker, which tells the story of

338
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:11,160
how he was drafted into the army when he was, you know, flunked out of college in 1966.

339
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:12,920
In basic training.

340
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:20,720
And then he was chosen for OCS, even though he was drafted, he went to OCS, came to artillery,

341
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:28,760
and he wound up in White Sands, New Mexico, dealing with nuclear, you know, bombs or nuclear

342
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,360
warheads and that kind of stuff.

343
00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:36,520
And so, Rick Parker is a great graphic artist.

344
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,320
He worked at Marvel for 15 years.

345
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:46,040
He did the drawing of all the Beavis and Butthead graphic novels.

346
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,560
And his book is just great.

347
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,720
I know, you know, it's like he has a great story to tell.

348
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:55,800
A lot of things happen, including death and the Vietnam War, even though he never left

349
00:22:55,800 --> 00:23:01,760
the United States, you know, accident and different stuff like that.

350
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,120
But and he draws so well and he remembers stuff.

351
00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:09,680
I just say that anybody who went through basic training, whether they were drafted or not,

352
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:15,560
and advanced training, AIT in the army, and probably in the Navy Marines and Air Force

353
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:21,400
too, would really, really relate to this book, especially the first, you know, three-fourths

354
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,200
of it, talking about the training and stuff that happened.

355
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,760
And the other graphic novelization is called The Heart That Fed.

356
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:35,920
The Heart That Fed, and it's by a young guy named Carl Scacciattano.

357
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:42,120
And it tells his father's story, who was in the Air Force during the Vietnam War, but

358
00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:47,360
late in the war, in I think, I guess, 72 or 73.

359
00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:49,800
And he wound up with a Marine detachment.

360
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:55,320
And, you know, you would think a guy in the Air Force and, you know, whatever, but he

361
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:56,720
was close to it.

362
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:02,720
He also had PTSD and the book goes through Carl's growing up with his father, you know,

363
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:07,080
who didn't talk about the war, but manifested the PTSD symptoms.

364
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:13,560
And again, it's a graphic novel, a.k.a. comic book, a.k.a. novelization that really, really

365
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:22,720
uses words and drawings and images to really tell a great Vietnam War and Vietnam post-war

366
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,680
story and a family story.

367
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:30,920
And so again, it's called The Heart That Fed by Carl Scacciattano.

368
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:31,920
Okay.

369
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:32,920
So those are graphic novels.

370
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:33,920
Yeah, go ahead.

371
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:34,920
Graphic novels.

372
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:36,160
I know we, I covered a couple of those.

373
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:40,520
I had one that I kind of piggybacked on that, but it was from World War II.

374
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:45,120
And the book was entitled, I Will Tell No War Stories, What Our Fathers Left Unset About

375
00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:46,800
World War II.

376
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,080
And this is about by Howard Mansfield.

377
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:51,400
And he's talking about his father.

378
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,840
And he says, after coming home from World War II, Pinkis was his name.

379
00:24:55,840 --> 00:25:02,360
Mansfield refused to tell anyone about his time as a waste gunner on a B-17.

380
00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:07,320
And his sons knew nothing about what their father did during the war until he moved into

381
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,160
a veteran's home toward the end of his life.

382
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:16,160
And when they started cleaning out his house, they came across their dad's diary.

383
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:21,600
And it just, it's a fascinating story.

384
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,360
And it's a great memoir.

385
00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:31,600
And it's, the book has been written just, I don't know, I guess, lovingly written by

386
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,080
his son.

387
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:37,280
And that would encourage for people, because we all know, you know, anybody who's grown

388
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,400
up with a relative who was in the service, especially your dad, you know, they never

389
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:42,760
talked about what they did.

390
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:47,960
They never really talked about what happened or good times or bad times.

391
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:53,440
And you know, you really want to go back and find out more about their lives.

392
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,440
And this is one example of that.

393
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,920
I know there are many out there, but this one I thought was very good.

394
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,960
It says, I will tell no war stories, what our father's left unsaid.

395
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,240
Yeah, great topic.

396
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:06,240
Great topic.

397
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:07,240
They're everywhere.

398
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:08,240
Yeah.

399
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:14,040
I don't know where they are and what they're doing.

400
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:15,840
Let's see, what have I got here?

401
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,040
Can I drop one in real quick?

402
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:19,240
Yeah, please do.

403
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:20,240
Yeah.

404
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:25,080
I mean, and kind of a different vein and a good one, I think.

405
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:32,160
You know, James Lee Burke, the crime novelist, the thriller, cop thriller novelist.

406
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,280
Well, of course he does much more than that.

407
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:39,800
But he's the one who created Dave Robichaux, the Cajun detective Vietnam War veteran who

408
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:48,160
is PTSD, recovering alcoholic and a great man, a great man who cares about other people,

409
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:58,000
risks his life to help people who are victims of crime down in the Bayou of Louisiana.

410
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,640
And so I think there are 28 Dave Robichaux.

411
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,680
I've read all of them and James Lee Burke is the great writer.

412
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,000
I mean, he creates great characters.

413
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:12,600
Well, Dave's partner in crime, you know, not really crime, but in fighting crime, although

414
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:19,480
those two guys get kind of wild sometimes and push the envelope as law enforcement officers.

415
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:25,800
Both were kicked off the New Orleans Police Department for behavior that crossed the line,

416
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:27,280
trying to help good people.

417
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:34,840
But anyway, his partner in crime, in fighting crime, was a guy named Klee Purcell, who was

418
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:41,640
a Marine, Marine in Vietnam, who went through hell there too, also has his issues with PTSD.

419
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:47,040
And James Lee Burke's newest novel, which came out this year, is just called Klee.

420
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:53,760
And in it, Dave and Klee go at it once again, fighting the most evil crime doers, standing

421
00:27:53,760 --> 00:28:01,160
up for the little guy, going over the line, but all in and it's all just great, fast,

422
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:06,440
fast page turning police procedural.

423
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,280
And so I love James Lee Burke.

424
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:10,280
He's a great writer.

425
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:14,000
He's in his late 80s now, and he's still pumping out these great novels.

426
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:15,000
Yeah.

427
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:19,480
So that just wanted to get that one in just in case we were running out of time.

428
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,480
No, I think that's cool.

429
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:30,640
I love to hear, especially the uplifting stories about Vietnam veterans, because unfortunately,

430
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:36,680
Mark, as you know, when we first got back into the real world, the stories that were

431
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:42,080
being written at the time were not very positive about the Vietnam veteran.

432
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:49,000
And then we had the movies coming out with the apocalypse nows and the rambos and so

433
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:50,000
on and so forth.

434
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:54,600
And there weren't very many redeeming qualities regarding the Vietnam veteran.

435
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:59,880
And so this is one of the reasons why I'd love to read these stories that are written

436
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:05,240
as by Vietnam veterans who can kind of really get that true story out there.

437
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:12,360
And we were just regular people just doing our jobs and have the same issues that anybody

438
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:17,440
that comes back for more has.

439
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:22,840
One of the books that I have talked about recently was, and I know you know the name

440
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:28,400
of it, but I'm trying to think of it, but it was Achilles in Vietnam.

441
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:32,760
And that was written by, I can't remember his name off the top of my head, but he talks

442
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:41,440
about the history of the warrior, basically, and how you can't expect warriors coming home

443
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:49,640
from war, whether it's the Peloponnesian wars or from Afghanistan, not to have something

444
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:55,440
going on in their head that they're trying to work their way through.

445
00:29:55,440 --> 00:30:00,240
And I think it's important for our audiences to remember that.

446
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:07,960
Because what he was talking about was that the Greek armies, they would take them out

447
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:13,440
somewhere for a month before they would let them go back into the community.

448
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:20,760
And today even the guys and women that are coming back, or that came back from Afghanistan

449
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,320
and Syria and so forth, they don't go straight home.

450
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,480
Yeah, it's called decompression.

451
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:28,920
And we didn't get that, remember?

452
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:29,920
Yes.

453
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:31,360
We came home, we got plane.

454
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:37,360
We were home within 24 hours and then they sent us right back into quote unquote normal

455
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:38,360
life.

456
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:44,280
Yes, you said we had to go back to your job at wherever it was and you definitely weren't

457
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:45,280
ready for it.

458
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,040
We're going to take a break right now.

459
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:51,280
And when we come back, we're going to continue talking about books that have come out during

460
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,480
2024 that you may be interested in.

461
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:59,840
And maybe some books that came out even earlier that just talk about military, about veterans,

462
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:01,720
military history, and so forth.

463
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,640
So stick around, stay tuned.

464
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:06,000
You're listening to Veterans Radio.

465
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,040
We will be right back.

466
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:12,040
The Medal of Honor is the highest award for valor in combat given a member of the Armed

467
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:13,840
Forces of the United States.

468
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:18,280
There have been over 3,400 recipients of the nation's highest award.

469
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:19,640
This is one of them.

470
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:25,520
Army Captain Ed Freeman flew 14 rescue missions under intense enemy fire, saving 30 seriously

471
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:26,520
wounded soldiers.

472
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,800
Details after this.

473
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,680
If you have a VA claim denied by the Board of Veterans Appeals, contact Legal Help for

474
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,920
Veterans at 1-800-693-4800.

475
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,920
They're experts in handling cases before the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims.

476
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,200
Their number again, 1-800-693-4800.

477
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:50,560
As a flight leader, Freeman supported a heavily engaged American infantry battalion in the

478
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,120
Itrang Valley, in the Republic of Vietnam.

479
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,760
The unit was almost out of ammunition after taking some of the heaviest casualties of

480
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:02,920
the war, fighting off a relentless attack from a highly motivated, heavily armed enemy

481
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:04,360
force.

482
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:09,880
When the infantry commander closed the helicopter landing zone due to intense direct enemy fire,

483
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:14,640
Freeman risked his own life by flying his unarmed helicopter through a gauntlet of enemy

484
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:20,520
fire time after time, delivering critically needed ammunition, water, and medical supplies

485
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,960
to the besieged battalion.

486
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:27,920
His flights had a direct impact on the battle's outcome by providing the engaged units with

487
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:32,040
timely supplies of ammunition critical to their survival.

488
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:36,760
Their medical evacuation helicopters refused to fly into the area due to intense enemy

489
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:38,320
fire.

490
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:43,720
Captain Freeman flew 14 separate rescue missions, providing life-saving evacuation of an estimated

491
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:49,800
30 seriously wounded soldiers, some of whom would not have survived had he not acted.

492
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:55,120
All flights were made into a small emergency landing zone within 100-200 yards of the defensive

493
00:32:55,120 --> 00:33:00,760
perimeter, where heavily committed units were perilously holding off the attacking elements.

494
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:05,520
The Medal of Honor series is a production of Veterans Radio.

495
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,880
Military veterans touch everyone's life.

496
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:13,160
I'm guessing right now you're thinking of a veteran, a close friend, relative, maybe

497
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:14,160
it's you.

498
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:19,040
Even the toughest of us sometimes need help, but don't know where to turn for support.

499
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,600
You don't need special training to help a veteran in your life.

500
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,480
We can all help someone going through a difficult time.

501
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,600
Learn how you can be there for veterans.

502
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,520
Visit veteranscrisisline.net.

503
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:34,400
A message from the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs.

504
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:43,200
We're back here on Veterans Radio, and we're going to be talking, we're talking with Mark

505
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:44,200
Leapson.

506
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:45,760
We're talking about books today.

507
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,960
So let's get right back into this, Mark.

508
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,560
I've got one that's just kind of a handy book, and I think it's important.

509
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:58,640
It's a book about veterans benefits, and it's called Veterans Benefits for You, Get What

510
00:33:58,640 --> 00:33:59,640
You Deserve.

511
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,880
It's by Dr. Paul Lawrence.

512
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:07,840
And it's a really, it's just a small paperback, maybe 200 pages or so, but it's got some great

513
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:15,600
information in there about how you can do business with the VA and eventually hopefully

514
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:21,680
get the benefits that you are entitled to and that you, you know, that you earned as

515
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:22,680
you go along.

516
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,160
So, yeah, this is kind of a side.

517
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:28,240
It's called Veterans Benefits for You, Get What You Deserve, Dr. Paul Lawrence.

518
00:34:28,240 --> 00:34:32,120
And he was a good guy, too.

519
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:38,240
He's, he's, he's, hopefully I'm going to have him back on the program in a couple of months,

520
00:34:38,240 --> 00:34:43,680
because he does, we do a benefits program once a month, and he's asked, you know, volunteered

521
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:44,680
to come back on.

522
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:46,760
So we'll have him back on again.

523
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:47,760
Okay.

524
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,760
I got also another, another history book for you.

525
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,800
It's a history and a memoir.

526
00:34:55,800 --> 00:35:00,840
It's called Diplomats at War, Diplomats at War.

527
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,840
And the author was Charlie Charles Truhart.

528
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:13,080
And it's a, so it deals with Charlie's father, Bill Truhart, who was the number two at the

529
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,840
U.S. Embassy in Saigon in the early 1960s.

530
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:25,320
So this book tells about what happened through historical standpoint and through the standpoint

531
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,120
of Charlie Truhart, who, he was a kid.

532
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,760
He was like in middle school and maybe started high school.

533
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:36,320
Because, you know, remember, dependents were still allowed to be there back then and before

534
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:44,000
the war got really amped up, although stuff was happening in 1960, 61, 62, 63.

535
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,960
But it's also, so it's, but it's still through his eyes.

536
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,000
And he was, he went on to be a journalist.

537
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,680
He was a foreign correspondent for the Washington Post.

538
00:35:53,680 --> 00:36:00,680
And so it's a dual story of this, you know, the historic events that happened, you know,

539
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:07,440
the Buddhist crisis, and then of course the assassination of ZM in November 2nd, 1963.

540
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:12,120
And you know, I, I've studied the Vietnam War for a long time.

541
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:16,760
I'm really interested, I'm interested in everything, but I've had particular interest

542
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:23,640
in how the U.S. got involved in the war, starting with the end of the World War II in 1945.

543
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,400
Through the French War from 45 to 54.

544
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:34,040
And then those decisions that were made in the early 50s, you know, to help out the French

545
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:39,960
regain their Indochinese colonies, which we did, we didn't send any personnel, but we

546
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:41,400
underwrote that war.

547
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:50,160
And then after the French lost in 1954, you know, we slowly began to get involved until,

548
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,240
you know, we were in a war.

549
00:36:52,240 --> 00:37:00,680
And of course, what happened in 1963, and so Diplomats at War is a great title because

550
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:06,640
it talks about, you know, his father, who was the number two in the embassy, and Fritz

551
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,720
Nolting, who was the ambassador.

552
00:37:09,720 --> 00:37:14,040
They were friends and colleagues from, they were both foreign service, a career foreign

553
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:15,040
service officers.

554
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:20,560
It was not, you know, an appointment of a, you know, somebody who knew the president

555
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,440
to be the ambassador to South Vietnam.

556
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:31,640
And they were both chosen to take this post mostly because they spoke French.

557
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:37,880
And when they got there, they found the war was, you know, bubbling up.

558
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,440
The Buddhist crisis was going on.

559
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:46,920
And they had this big disagreement over whether the U.S. should continue to support President

560
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:55,240
Zm, who was cracking down on the Buddhists, his brother, you remember, no, no, no, no,

561
00:37:55,240 --> 00:37:57,440
was the head of the secret police.

562
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:01,880
And they had like a, you know, a suppression of freedom of the press, student protests

563
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:02,880
and so on.

564
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:12,720
So there was a big debate within American Vietnam policy making in Washington and Saigon

565
00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:16,440
over whether to continue to support to support Zm or not to.

566
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,120
And of course we all know what happened.

567
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:23,040
And Knowlting, the ambassador and Charlie's father, Bill Truhardt were on opposite sides

568
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:24,040
of that.

569
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,520
Knowlting wanted to stay with Zm.

570
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:31,120
Truhardt originally did and then came to see that he thought he should go.

571
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:32,600
So they were at war with each other.

572
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:34,640
So this is a great title of the book.

573
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:39,920
Anyway, we know what happened and we kind of get a really good ringside seat on that

574
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,560
one from a personal standpoint.

575
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:44,560
And the history is really good too.

576
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,000
So, and it's a good read.

577
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:50,160
It's called Diplomats at War by Charles Truhardt.

578
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,160
Charles Truhardt.

579
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:56,560
Yeah, P-R-U-E-H-E-A-R-T.

580
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:58,560
Got it.

581
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,560
Got it.

582
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:01,560
All right.

583
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:06,360
So kind of going back in time and talking about what's, you know, how all of these issues

584
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:10,160
and these famous names that we, you know, we heard as children stuff.

585
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:11,880
I just finished a book.

586
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,120
It's called Team America.

587
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,160
And it's about World War II.

588
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:22,840
And the Team America is, it's about George Patton, MacArthur, Marshall, and Eisenhower

589
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:27,000
and how the world was made in their image.

590
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:33,080
And it's really great for any of you historians out there or World War II, you know, history

591
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,000
buffs that want to know more about what went on.

592
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:37,760
I found this to be a really good read.

593
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:42,120
It's in an audiobook as well, which is, you know, sometimes a little easier to listen

594
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:43,840
to sometimes.

595
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:53,280
But you find out all this interaction between, you know, George Patton, who was, you know,

596
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,880
a aristocrat, came from a rich family.

597
00:39:55,880 --> 00:40:00,560
All these other things always felt neglected because he went to, you know, he didn't go

598
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,600
to West Point like the rest of them did.

599
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:05,080
And so he has these complexes.

600
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:12,680
But he's based on what every one of them said, you know, he was the best fighting general

601
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:14,040
in the history of America.

602
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,480
He just, nothing ever stopped him.

603
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:24,160
And George Marshall, who was, you know, overall commander in chief of all of the theaters going

604
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:28,000
on at the time, which most of us weren't aware of.

605
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:32,640
And, you know, eventually after World War II, he set up the Marshall Plan, which, you

606
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:33,960
know, to rebuild Europe.

607
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:39,520
It was a great Eisenhower, which many of us grew up thinking he was just the coolest guy

608
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:47,120
out there, and because he won, he personally won World War II, which we know is not true.

609
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:53,800
But from his humble beginnings in, you know, Kansas, and he ended up being a staff officer

610
00:40:53,800 --> 00:41:00,000
for MacArthur and MacArthur, who's, you know, been called the American Caesar, whose personality

611
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,520
could drive anybody crazy.

612
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,720
But he was a great general.

613
00:41:04,720 --> 00:41:09,760
And, you know, he always, a man always respected him, loved him and all these other things.

614
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,800
So anyway, this is a book I, you history buffs, you got to read.

615
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:17,720
It's one of those four or 500 page guys, but it's an excellent read.

616
00:41:17,720 --> 00:41:23,000
It's by Robert L. O'Connell, C-O-N-N-E-L-L.

617
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,000
It's in paperbacks, not too bad.

618
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:26,480
It's a great read.

619
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:31,240
You get to find out what you're, what was going on, you know, when you were just before

620
00:41:31,240 --> 00:41:32,240
you were born.

621
00:41:32,240 --> 00:41:33,640
So, Team America.

622
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:37,120
I strongly recommend it.

623
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:38,120
My turn?

624
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:39,120
Yep, your turn.

625
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:40,120
Okay.

626
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:41,120
Yeah.

627
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:48,120
One of the better memoirs that I read this year was a book called Found by a guy named

628
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,800
Jack McClain, who was a Marine in the Vietnam War.

629
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,800
And Jack had it's really well written.

630
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:59,280
It deals with some really interesting stuff that happened to him afterward, after he came

631
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:00,280
home.

632
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:06,720
So Jack wrote a really good memoir that came out a bunch of years ago called Loon, L-O-O-N,

633
00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:15,320
which was a landing zone Loon and talks about, it's a definite, one of the better in country

634
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:16,680
Vietnam war novels.

635
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:26,240
So this book, Found, is a file, a follow up, and it talks about his long fight to, you

636
00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:31,080
know, with PTSD, with getting his benefits that he earned from the VA.

637
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,960
And when I say long, it took years and years and years and years.

638
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:42,280
But it also deals with his effort to bring the family of one of his buddies who was killed

639
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:44,720
in Vietnam together.

640
00:42:44,720 --> 00:42:52,600
And it's a really intriguing story of, you know, generational split in a family that Jack

641
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:56,960
only took him a long time to figure out and to figure out how to help.

642
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:00,480
And I don't want to give too much away, but it's really intriguing.

643
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:04,240
And there is a happy ending for it.

644
00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:07,680
So it's Jack McClain, he's a Marine.

645
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:13,440
His first book was called Loon, which is really a great Vietnam War memoir.

646
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:18,200
And then his follow up, which came out this year, probably 15, 20 years after the other

647
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,920
one is called Found, F-O-U-N-D.

648
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:24,800
Oh, well, he's a great story.

649
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,360
You know, I wish I could write like you guys do.

650
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:31,560
It's not that I have a great story to tell, but I would love to get it down.

651
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:36,320
So, you know, my son and granddaughter and stuff, you know, wanted to know, what did

652
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:37,320
you do?

653
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:38,320
I don't know.

654
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:39,320
Here it is.

655
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,840
But, yeah, I mean, they're good stories.

656
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:47,040
I got one that's a little bit more current that my partner Jim Falcone had on it when

657
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:48,800
he was doing a program.

658
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:53,360
The book is entitled Always Faithful, and it's the story of the war in Afghanistan,

659
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:58,320
the fall of Kabul, and the unshakeable bond between a Marine and an interpreter.

660
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:09,560
It's by a major Tom Schumann, S-C-H-U-E-M-A-N, and Zan Zainullah Zaki.

661
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:11,680
And he was the interpreter.

662
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:18,000
It talks about the bond between the Marine and his interpreter and how after the fall

663
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:25,320
of Afghanistan, how he worked so hard to get his interpreter out and all of the roadblocks

664
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:26,320
that he ran into.

665
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:28,440
It turns out to be a pretty good story.

666
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:33,640
I'm not going to give everything away either, but I would really encourage people to read

667
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:34,640
this.

668
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:36,520
You know, these things occur.

669
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:44,640
I can remember we have a family here locally who escaped from Cambodia.

670
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:48,720
You know, when we had that little incursion there.

671
00:44:48,720 --> 00:44:50,600
They escaped from Cambodia to Thailand.

672
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:52,360
We're in Thailand four, five, six years.

673
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,320
Ended up finally getting to America.

674
00:44:54,320 --> 00:45:00,720
They lived 20 in an apartment in California, and now they own a bakery franchise system

675
00:45:00,720 --> 00:45:02,920
all across the country.

676
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:04,440
It's a great success story.

677
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:10,440
For those locally in Ann Arbor, just go to Dom's Bakery and ask them about it.

678
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:16,400
And the idea of trying to get these people that did so much to help the American troops

679
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:24,680
in their country and the difficulty that they had with the agreements that some people didn't

680
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:25,680
keep.

681
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,720
Let's put it that way.

682
00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:29,720
But it's a great story.

683
00:45:29,720 --> 00:45:33,760
It's called Always Faithful, Major Tom Shulman.

684
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:34,760
It's a good story.

685
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:35,760
It's a really good story.

686
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:39,160
It's one of those that you, you know, it's another up all night story.

687
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,280
So, your turn.

688
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:42,280
Okay.

689
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:51,280
Another, this one is in number two, Vietnam War and post-Vietnam War.

690
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,480
It's called The Face of the Enemy.

691
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:54,800
The Face of the Enemy.

692
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,000
And it's written by David Chung, C-H-U-N-G.

693
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:08,040
And David has a tie to Diane Carlson Evans in that he is an Air Force Vietnam War veteran.

694
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:16,720
He, kind of like, I was talking about Carl Satchitano's father who was in the Air Force

695
00:46:16,720 --> 00:46:18,600
in the latter stages of the war.

696
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:19,600
So was David.

697
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:24,840
And he went up and he, I guess, was 72, 73.

698
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:28,760
He saw a lot of horrible stuff there during his Vietnam War tour.

699
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,280
He also had PTSD when he came back.

700
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:38,560
But he, you know, got himself together and he got a job with FedEx and he kept going

701
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:40,720
up the ladder on FedEx.

702
00:46:40,720 --> 00:46:46,240
And then when the Vietnam, I mean, you might remember this deal, when the Women's Memorial,

703
00:46:46,240 --> 00:46:53,320
the Vietnam Women's Memorial was built in, I guess, so they had the 30th anniversary

704
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,320
last year, so it was 93.

705
00:46:56,320 --> 00:47:05,240
The centerpiece of the memorial is a sculpture by Glenna Woodacre and her studio, you know,

706
00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:13,760
of the three nurses and her studio is in, I think, New Mexico or someplace way up there

707
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:14,760
in southwest.

708
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:23,160
Well, the question was how to get that statue to Washington, D.C. in time for the memorial.

709
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:28,880
Well, David heard about it and he managed to talk to Fred Smith, you know, Fred Smith,

710
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:32,240
as he's founder and CEO of FedEx.

711
00:47:32,240 --> 00:47:35,080
He was a Marine in the Vietnam War.

712
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:42,200
And so Fred Smith gave David the job of packing this thing up.

713
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:48,120
I mean, it's huge and getting it cross country in time for the dedication.

714
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:57,080
And what happened was as they designed a special truck that had, you could, was open on the

715
00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:02,680
sides, when, I'm maybe not getting this totally right, but basically when they made their first,

716
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:06,280
and it took like, I don't know, a week or 10 days to get across the country, when they

717
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:14,200
made their first stop, when they parked the thing overnight, people came out to watch

718
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:17,400
and by the hundreds, by the thousands eventually.

719
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:22,000
They eventually changed the route so it could go through more cities for people to take

720
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,240
a look at this great statue and they did get it there on time.

721
00:48:25,240 --> 00:48:26,240
And it's a great success.

722
00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:29,800
And that's, you know, one part of David's story in the face of the enemy.

723
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:35,560
The other is since he's Asian-American, his face, he talks about how being Asian and being

724
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:41,720
a US member of the US Air Force, the impact that that had on him, it wasn't always a positive

725
00:48:41,720 --> 00:48:44,600
thing, you know, in country or after the war.

726
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:46,600
So I recommend that book.

727
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:47,600
Wow.

728
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:53,520
I remember, I must have read that one because it sounds, I remember the story.

729
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:55,400
I reviewed it in the magazine.

730
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:56,400
There you go.

731
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:57,400
Maybe I read it there.

732
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:04,160
Well, you know, anyway, you and, you know, if people wanted to read your reviews, the

733
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:06,600
regular audience can do that, can't they?

734
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,360
Yeah, they can access the magazine.

735
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:16,040
Yeah, on the online version comes out, you know, a couple of weeks after each print edition.

736
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:19,200
So VVVVVVeteran.org.

737
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:25,320
And then scroll down and hit the key for books, books and reviews, the name of the column.

738
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:29,760
Are we going to talk about this other great book that's coming out like in December?

739
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:33,680
Yeah, yeah, we actually, we are, because I just got the sign we got about three, four

740
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:34,920
minutes to go.

741
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:40,920
So I'd like to introduce the author of a new book that is coming out.

742
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,120
It's called The Unlikely War Hero.

743
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:47,320
And it's, so tell me all about this book, not in detail, because we're going to do that

744
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:49,640
again in December.

745
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,080
Okay, thanks.

746
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:53,080
Thanks, Dale.

747
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:57,320
Yeah, The Unlikely War Hero is the story of the youngest and lowest ranking American

748
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:00,840
taken prisoner in North Vietnam and held in the Hanuay Hill.

749
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:02,840
His name was Doug Higdall.

750
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:04,880
He was a Navy seaman apprentice.

751
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:10,920
20, 20 years old, fell off his ship in April of 1967.

752
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:16,840
Then in the Gulf of Tonkin, while the big guns were firing, nobody saw it.

753
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:18,360
The ship pulled away somehow.

754
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:20,760
He's sort of, and this is like four o'clock in the morning.

755
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:25,360
He survived two to three hours, maybe even longer in the South China Sea.

756
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:31,040
He was about to go under when a fishing boat, North Vietnamese fishing boat picked him up.

757
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:33,760
They actually saved his life, but then they shipped him up to Hanuay.

758
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:35,640
He goes to the Hanuay Hilton.

759
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:39,040
And there he is with all those John McCain's and Jeremiah Denton's and all those guys,

760
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:40,880
10 years older than him, fly boys.

761
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:44,200
He's a 20 year old kid from Clark, South Dakota.

762
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,160
And then it turns out he has this great memory.

763
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:48,160
People may know this story.

764
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:52,320
It's been out there, but no one's told it in a book before.

765
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:58,360
And he winds up memorizing 254 names, ranks, and services of prisoners.

766
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:02,960
And when he does, the Americans, you know, they had their own unofficial chain of command

767
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:03,960
in the prison.

768
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:05,400
They ordered him to come home.

769
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:06,920
And he hesitated at first.

770
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:10,320
And he did when he got home, he rattled off those names.

771
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:19,960
And the Pentagon was able to change the status of 63 men from missing in action to prisoner

772
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:20,960
of war.

773
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:24,200
In other words, they told their families that their husband's fathers were live because

774
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:25,200
of what Doug did.

775
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:29,200
So this is a great story, unlikely war hero.

776
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:32,840
And let's talk about it on the show in depth.

777
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:33,840
Okay.

778
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:34,840
Yes, we will.

779
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:36,840
And when does that come out?

780
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:38,880
The official pub date is December 17th.

781
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:42,440
You can order it now on Amazon and all the other online.

782
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:46,000
It should be in bookstores by next week.

783
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:50,560
And I'm real, I try to get excited about my books, but I'm kind of excited about this

784
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:51,560
one.

785
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:55,960
So it'd be my 11th book, but my first book really that deals totally with the Vietnam

786
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:56,960
War.

787
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:57,960
Okay.

788
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:03,480
Well, I know that I have heard the story, but I'm anxious to hear you know what you got

789
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:05,960
because I know you did more research on it and so forth.

790
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:06,960
100%.

791
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:14,000
And a lot of the stuff you hear about Doug is either, you know, exaggerated or not true.

792
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:15,000
I got it.

793
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:16,000
I think I got it.

794
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:17,000
All right.

795
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:19,080
I thought the five POWs did a lot of research.

796
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:20,080
Okay.

797
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:21,080
All right.

798
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:24,240
Well, Mark Leapson, thank you very much for being on Veterans Radio today.

799
00:52:24,240 --> 00:52:25,840
We talked about a lot of books.

800
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:31,080
I'm just trying to get all the names of them up on our website so people can go and say,

801
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:32,680
oh, that's where I heard about it.

802
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:34,000
So I encourage people to do that.

803
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:35,000
So Mark, thanks very much.

804
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:37,400
I'll be talking with you next month.

805
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,400
My pleasure Dale.

806
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:40,960
Thanks for doing what you do, man.

807
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:41,960
Okay.

808
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:42,960
Thank you.

809
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:43,960
All right.

810
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:47,360
We're going to be taking, you know, ending our program today and we're going to go out

811
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:51,720
on our America the Beautiful and it's going to be John Fountain this time.

812
00:52:51,720 --> 00:52:55,360
And it's a, it's kind of a cool version of the song.

813
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:58,000
As you know, I think this song is really important.

814
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:01,360
So pay attention, stick around next week is benefits program.

815
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:26,280
And until then, this is Dale Thromary for Veterans Radio.

816
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:31,840
Yeah.

817
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,800
Thanks.

818
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:41,360
Yeah.

819
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:43,680
Thanks.

820
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:53,120
Those of you who might ask is what is your fascination?

821
00:53:53,120 --> 00:54:00,120
My home sweet home

822
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:05,120
God bless America

823
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:11,120
My home sweet home

824
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:17,120
God bless America

825
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:25,120
And that I love, stand beside her

826
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:34,120
And guide her through the night with the light from above

827
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:40,120
From the mountains to the prairies

828
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:47,120
To the oceans white with foam

829
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:52,120
God bless America

830
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:59,120
My home sweet home

831
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:04,120
God bless America

832
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:15,120
My home sweet home

833
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:21,120
Oh beautiful for spacious skies

834
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:27,120
For amber waves of grey

835
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:33,120
For purple mountain majesties

836
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:38,120
Above the brood at play

837
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:44,120
America, America

838
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:50,120
God shed His grace on thee

839
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:56,120
And crowned I could with brotherhood

840
00:55:56,120 --> 00:56:02,120
From sea to shining sea

841
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:08,120
And crowned I could with brotherhood

842
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:18,120
From sea to shining sea

843
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:31,120
America