1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:15,000 All across America and around the world, this is Veterans Radio. 2 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:20,000 And now, your host for today's program, Dale Throneberry. 3 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:24,080 Hey, welcome to Veterans Radio. 4 00:00:24,080 --> 00:00:29,800 My name is Dale Throneberry, CW-2 helicopter pilot in Vietnam, 1969. 5 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:31,800 Welcome to Veterans Radio. 6 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,800 We are truly all over the world on today's program. 7 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,800 I'm really excited to have you listen to the people that we have. 8 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:44,800 We've got a group from out in California called Elder Warriors, for all of you that look like me. 9 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:50,800 And we are going to be talking to them about their program and what they've got going out there. 10 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:57,800 And they have a number of special events that are geared toward the Elder Warrior and also to the civilians 11 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:02,800 to figure out what is going on in these Vietnam Veterans heads that are out there. 12 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:08,800 Also joining me a little bit later on from Australia is Tom Williams. 13 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:14,800 And Tom has written a number of books, actually started off with a series of books called Heart of a Marine. 14 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,800 And we're going to be talking with Tom about how he started writing. 15 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:19,800 He's a Lieutenant Colonel, retired. 16 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:24,800 His first book is Door Steps of Hell, book number one. 17 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:26,800 And so we are going to be talking with him. 18 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:32,800 If you want to get in on the action and feel like talking with any of our guests, please feel free to do so. 19 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:38,800 The number here locally in Michigan is 734-822-1600. 20 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,800 734-822-1600. 21 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:45,800 But before we bring on our first guest, I got to thank our sponsors. 22 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:46,800 We can't do this without them. 23 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:48,800 Oh, I should remind everybody. 24 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:52,800 You know, last weekend we had our Radio on the River fundraiser. 25 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,800 I want to thank everybody that participated in that. 26 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:57,800 We made our goal and more. 27 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,800 It was really an exciting afternoon. 28 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:07,800 And I want to thank all of you out there across the country again that support Veterans Radio and with your donations. 29 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,800 And it was, it was really fun. 30 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:12,800 It was a great time had by all. 31 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:18,800 And Doug Radley from We Got to Get Out of This Place, that's his book, was our guest speaker. 32 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:20,800 And it turned out that we went really well. 33 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,800 People really enjoyed playing a lot of music. 34 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:28,800 And we can, and you guys can do that if you want to. 35 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,800 All right, so we got to thank our sponsors. 36 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,800 And we would not be here without them, of course. 37 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:36,800 Number one is Legal Help for Veterans. 38 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,800 Legal Help for Veterans specializes in Veterans Disability Claims. 39 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:48,800 Give Legal Help for Veterans a call at 800-693-4800 or go to their website, legalhelpforveterans.com. 40 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:58,800 The National Veterans Business Development Council, better known as NVBDC, is the nation's leading third party authority for certification of veteran-owned businesses. 41 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:07,800 For more information, go to their website, NVBDC.org, or give them a call at 888-237-8433. 42 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:14,800 Remember, if you are a veteran-owned business out there and you want to do business with the federal government and many corporations, 43 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:21,800 you need to get certified because certification means that you are actually a real, live veteran-owned business. 44 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:26,800 There are a lot of people out there that say they are veteran-owned, but they're not. 45 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,800 So make sure if you are, you want to make sure you get certified. 46 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:32,800 And these are the guys that can do it for you. 47 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:34,800 NVBDC.org. 48 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:39,800 The Charles S. Kettles VA Medical Center here in Ann Arbor, Michigan. 49 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:44,800 For more information, go to va.gov.narborhealthcare. 50 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:50,800 The Vietnam Veterans of America National, never again will one generation of veterans abandon another. 51 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:55,800 For more information, go to their website, vva.org. 52 00:03:55,800 --> 00:04:05,800 Locally, the Erwin Prescor and American Legion Post 46 and the Charles S. Kettles Vietnam Veterans of America Chapter 310, both of Ann Arbor, Michigan. 53 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:12,800 If you'd like to support Veterans Radio, please go to our website, veteransradio.org, and click on the donate button. 54 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,800 Thank you in advance. Now let's get into the program. 55 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:17,800 All right. 56 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:24,800 So join me on a line from an organization, as I mentioned before, called Elder Warriors out in California. 57 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:28,800 We've got Father Michael Chieftanato. 58 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:33,800 He is the president of the organization. I knew I'd do that. 59 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:42,800 And I'm also the director of the organization, Michael Sternberg, who is one of the directors and Michael Brewer, who is a Marine Corps squad leader in Vietnam. 60 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:48,800 He is also one of their directors. So I wanted to welcome all you gentlemen to our program. 61 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,800 And thank you. 62 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:59,800 So let me start off with Michael. You're the one that made the initial contact. So tell me a little bit about Elder Warriors. 63 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,800 It's hard to share a life recording in progress. 64 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,800 Oh, I had an audio interruption there. 65 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:13,800 Hard to share a 77 year long lifeline of involvement with veterans activity, but I'll do it. 66 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,800 Being a little Irish, I'll do it as fast as I can. 67 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:22,800 In 1969, my guy, the Marine Corps, I had a pretty rotten experience in Chicago. 68 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:31,800 And upon returning to the University of Arizona, I checked in the Student Health Center as 1970. 69 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:36,800 And about three or four of us got the diagnosis of Vietnam syndrome. 70 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,800 They gave us volume. They didn't know what else to do. 71 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,800 Didn't make for real exciting Friday night dates. 72 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:52,800 And five of us started our own group at the Student Health Center and ended up being guinea pigs for the training of psychiatric interns. 73 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:54,800 And they've done as Erickson. 74 00:05:54,800 --> 00:06:02,800 That was 1971. That year I was on a program called GI update in Tucson and ABC affiliate. 75 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:09,800 And the station manager wanted to talk about Vietnam and we didn't get very far. 76 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:14,800 They didn't grasp the fact that we were just trying to tell stories. We weren't anti anything. 77 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,800 We weren't anti war. We just wanted to share our experiences. 78 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,800 We were opposite national football. They didn't get very far. 79 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,800 Lasted about six weeks. 80 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:31,800 Fast forward. I used my GI ability to go to nursing school. 81 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:35,800 Was hoping to work with veterans at that time in the 70s. 82 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:40,800 But myself and the medical community having no difference of opinion with them. 83 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:45,800 Just personal feeling like rear ships passing in the night. 84 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,800 I worked at Night Shift at St. Mary's Hospital in Tucson. 85 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:55,800 A lot of suicide prevention work. A lot of great in service training. Distalt therapy and all that. 86 00:06:55,800 --> 00:07:03,800 Well the docs, when a vet would come into the ER having flashbacks, they'd tag him as schizophrenic and give him Mellorail. 87 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:08,800 Well that was the final straw for me. I realized that was not going to be my vocation. 88 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,800 If that's the kind of hierarchy and authority I had to deal with. 89 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:19,800 I went on in time to join some retreat circuits in Arizona. One called Vets for Vets. 90 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:28,800 I was there token non-vet. It was formed by a former Marine captain Jim Driscoll to deal with Iraq and Afghanistan veterans. 91 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:34,800 And I was literally the only Vietnam veteran there. I think it was designed on purpose. 92 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:39,800 Great retreats. Great experience. 93 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:45,800 Moved on to a retreat program called the Merit Center Retreat Program in Payson. 94 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:49,800 A lot of Native American involvement. Hoping Indians and all. 95 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,800 And then comes a move to California. 96 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:59,800 And I attended an Edward Tick retreat in Joshua Tree. Williams probably knows. 97 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:06,800 The listeners know that Joshua Tree is right at the front door of 29 Bombs Marine Corps Base. 98 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:12,800 So it's a great place to hold the retreat. And that's where I met Peter and Mike. 99 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:24,800 And they actually authored the first script, I think, of this retreat program right there during the Joshua Tree retreat. 100 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:32,800 And I attended their first one. And having been through a whole panoply of treatment modalities and believe me, I've done it all. 101 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:41,800 EMDR, biofeedback, all that. I'm both PTSD, TBI. I was in a coma in Vietnam. 102 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:49,800 I thought that I had, I thought I'd expired every treatment program known to man until I met these guys. 103 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:57,800 And they authored a script that just was an absolute breakthrough for storytelling. 104 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:04,800 And the aspect that made for the breakthrough was the addition of civilians at all the retreats. 105 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:15,800 Where no longer were our stories truncated, cut off prematurely. As Colonel Williams would probably know, we used the phrase, oh, honey, pass the salt. 106 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:27,800 You know, you could never get your story finished. And at that first retreat, I left saying to my wife, I think I can fly. 107 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:40,800 You know, something just happened to here. And it has to be related to the scripted nature of this civilian addition and the listening level. 108 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:48,800 Because telling our stories to each other, as you saw in the beginning of this recording, we could go on to the sun goes down telling our war stories. 109 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:56,800 But adding the civilian population just makes all the difference. And that's all I got for now. 110 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:01,800 Well, thank you. Thank you, Mike. I want to go to Michael. 111 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:03,800 Did it again. 112 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,800 Michael got it. Finally. 113 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:25,800 Anyway, you are the president of Elder Warder of Elder Warriors.org. And I'm reading from your biography here. It's that you've been heavily involved with veterans helping veterans and veterans treatment center and so forth in these San Luis Obisco. 114 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:26,800 Yes. 115 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:32,800 Portion of the in California. How did this idea come come about for you? 116 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:50,800 Well, when I retired at the age of 71, I asked my community, my parish, I'd been there for 28 years, which is unusual. I was vested. But anyway, I asked them to pray that I would be guided by God to what ministry I should have in my retirement that I could do. 117 00:10:50,800 --> 00:11:00,800 And I figured in retirement, I could do ministry at my pace. And when it became clear that I was being called to deal with veterans with PTSD, I was saying, God, you got to be kidding. 118 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:09,800 I was, you know, I was an anti war person. Okay, not anti veteran, but anti war actually helped work with some of our events before. 119 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:22,800 At any rate, I had a lot of learning and thank God my bishop gave me a year to work on this, in which I made two different trips to Vietnam with Ed Tech and in his healing program. 120 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:31,800 And then I also got to go to New Zealand to visit the Maori people because they have very specific healing process. 121 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:40,800 And what I've learned is there's been a healing process throughout the centuries, a lot with the indigenous people, with the Greeks even had it. 122 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:48,800 But it involved storytelling where it could be heard without judgment, without critique, without analysis or diagnosis. 123 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:57,800 You know, there's a place for those things, but in this there wasn't. You just listened with respect for the storyteller and the story and then ritual. 124 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:11,800 And I learned that the storytelling, the ability to do that in safety and to tell your true story to both veterans and civilians who wouldn't be commenting, they'd be listening with respect. 125 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:20,800 That that then allowed the ritual processes and the other pieces to work for healing, forgiveness, grief, loss, all of that. 126 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:39,800 But additionally, as I began working with Peter, Peter and I met at 29 Palms there. And as I began to work with with him, we also realize the civilians, the civilian piece that Ed Tech recognized was needed, was needed. 127 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:44,800 But the civilians needed to understand how to listen. 128 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:53,800 The other part was the civilians had a moral duty to accept responsibility for what we ask of our veterans and our and our warriors when they go. 129 00:12:53,800 --> 00:13:03,800 It's a moral responsibility, not only for what we asked them to do, but for them as they come back with what that effect has had on them. 130 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:19,800 We see PTSD as post traumatic soul distress. So we see it as a soul wound. And yes, it affects physically, mentally, the whole, the whole being, the whole person, but it's primarily a soul. 131 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:27,800 And it comes from what we call a shredding of the soul where in order to do the work of war, you have to separate yourself from your humanity. 132 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:38,800 Okay, and that is brilliantly taught. But all the preparations we have for our warriors, all the training is just expert at doing that. 133 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:45,800 The thing is, is we don't do anything to reconnect them to their family, their humanity or anything else when they come back. 134 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,800 And that's what we seek to do in this, in this journey. 135 00:13:49,800 --> 00:14:02,800 So it's seeking to make the reconnection that provides healing for our vets, but also owning the moral responsibility for those of us who are civilians. 136 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:12,800 You know, in New Zealand, for example, when they listen to the story, they tell the veterans coming back, look, we asked you to go. 137 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:20,800 And it was the war and everything that you did and everything that happened in the war is on us is our responsibility. We own it with you. 138 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:36,800 We own it as a community. And then it's our job to bring you back. Okay, and to bring you back and they basically, the Maura guys told me, you bring them back to God, to nature, and to, and to human people. 139 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:49,800 So that's pretty much how we began. Peter and I began to design the ritual process. That ritual was an area that I was trained in. 140 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:57,800 Richard Gower is one of our Catholic priests, the Franciscan priests, many know, was my mentor in that and dealing with men's work and men's wounds. 141 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,800 So that gave me that component. 142 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:07,800 So anyway, that's where we started. And then I guess it should probably lead on to Peter to fill out. 143 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:12,800 Yeah, I'm going to go over to Peter. 144 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:23,800 Peter Sternberg and Peter is one of the directors of Elbert Warder warriors.org. He's also a psychotherapist in Chicago. See, this is a worldwide program nationwide today, for sure. 145 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:32,800 So Peter, how did you get involved in this whole thing? I know Michael just mentioned that that you met together out at 29 Palms. 146 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:41,800 I attended the the conference that Ed Tick was running in Joshua Tree. 147 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:51,800 And it was a powerful conference for me personally, as well as professionally. 148 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:56,800 I learned for the first time about moral wounding. 149 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:09,800 That moral wounding is a component of most post traumatic stress disorder, certainly military post traumatic stress disorder. 150 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:20,800 And this comes out of the work of Jonathan Shea, who spent his career working with veterans, a psychiatrist working with Vietnam veterans. 151 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:33,800 And he developed this understanding of the wound that comes to our moral sense through two ways. 152 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:44,800 One is when we are asked to do something that goes against the mores, the values, the moral system that we were raised in. 153 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:51,800 And learning how to be an effective warrior is that exactly. 154 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:59,800 And the other is when a person feels betrayed by authority. 155 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:05,800 This is the other way in which our moral sense is wounded. 156 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:23,800 And Ed Tick spoke about this, I had a personal understanding of it in terms of, man, I was going over experiences of my own life and realize that even though I was not in, I had not served in the military. 157 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:31,800 I did go to military school as an adolescent, but never served in our armed forces. 158 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:47,800 I thought about my own experiences and realized that I had experienced moral wounding and had some signs and symptoms of post traumatic stress disorder myself. 159 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:58,800 And this led me to a deepening contact and friendship with Father Mike. 160 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:17,800 And out of our conversations, he told me that he was working on a retreat for veterans and based on what I was talking about about myself, he was very interested in seeing if I would collaborate with him. 161 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:35,800 And I said, yes, I would. And almost immediately, we landed on the idea of healing the split between the military community and the civilian community. 162 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:54,800 That there is a split that is promulgated by the civilians. We ask people to be our warriors. And then we don't want to know about their experience. 163 00:18:54,800 --> 00:19:01,800 We don't want to know what they did. We don't want to know the effect that it had on them. 164 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:24,800 We thank them for their service. But mostly we don't want to know. And there's the split. And there is the moral wound to the warrior who feels that they don't have a way back into the society that sent them into the military. 165 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:53,800 And so we knew from the beginning that whatever we put together as a healing journey had to include civilians being present and listening to veterans without analysis, without diagnosis, without critique, just acceptance, receiving the veteran stories. 166 00:19:53,800 --> 00:20:06,800 And that when the civilians do that from a place of heart and compassion and responsibility taking magic seems to happen. 167 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:19,800 Yeah, I was thinking, as you mentioned, Jonathan Shay, and I'm just tooting my horn or our horn here on veterans radios we interviewed him quite a while ago, because he had written a couple of books Odysseus and Achilles in Vietnam. 168 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:27,800 Which I guess it sounds like you folks have read and probably utilize he was in, I think it was a Boston VA. 169 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:42,800 Yes, exactly. We studied his work Achilles in Vietnam and Odysseus in America and, and it's a brilliant understanding of the story of the Iliad as telling the story of moral wounding. 170 00:20:42,800 --> 00:21:04,800 Well, I, you know, so I understand that you have an event coming up here, or not right away but in 2025. So, Michael, I'm going to ask you, which where where and when it's in San Juan, Batista, near Salinas, California, to the beautiful retreat center. 171 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:17,800 Again, as Michael said earlier, Padre said earlier, it's a Catholic retreat center, but the retreats are not Catholic. They just happened to own the best damn real estate in California, probably inherited it all from the Spaniards. 172 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:23,800 But they're wonderful places. This one is really cool. 173 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:30,800 March 23 to March 27. Four days private room, three meals a day. 174 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:39,800 It's a Franciscan center. I guess I said that we're filling up faster than we ever have. I've been with these guys for 10 years now. 175 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:46,800 And we got a lot of help from where I live in the mountains. I'm by Lake Arrowhead, California. 176 00:21:46,800 --> 00:22:05,800 We've got help from the from the Legion. We have W just got $2,500 from the rotary couple days ago. So far, you guys correct me if I'm wrong so far. 10 years I've been with them. No veteran that can't afford it has ever had to pay. 177 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,800 We've covered every one of them. Isn't that correct? 178 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:14,800 If someone truly cannot pay the fee that they can attend, they could still attend. 179 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:28,800 You never turn anyone down. We never turn anyone down. And one of the critical, I wouldn't call the sales shop just out recruiting is that none of our staff, none of the far board are paid top and sated. 180 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:36,800 Some of you who have been in this I can tell Dale has and Tom William Chast. PTSD has turned into a cottage industry. 181 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:49,800 And we're not in that lane. Not a single soul has paid a thing here. 7 8 of that money goes to room and board printing costs. We have to have pliers and stuff. 182 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:56,800 And some collateral material. I think we just ordered caps for the first time in 10 years. 183 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:07,800 I just think it sounds like what you guys are doing. It's terrific. Those are the can't see the video of it. We just saw the hat. I want to thank all three of you for being on veterans radio. 184 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:19,800 The organization is elder warriors.org. You can find out more about their retreat that's coming up in March of 2020. How can it be 2025 already? 185 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:29,800 But and if there is a fee, what is the fee if you can afford to pay it? It's $800 is what it costs us. We charge what it costs us. 186 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:36,800 So $800. We would gladly accept more because that and this is open to this is open to that. 187 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:55,800 Four days. Four and a half days. Actually, it's four and a half. It's four and a half days. We you hear that we provide scholarship money for people who cannot afford and we run on on people's giving on philanthropy that comes our ways. 188 00:23:55,800 --> 00:24:06,800 Anybody feels so inclined. Please do elder warriors.org. This is open to all veterans and civilians. Yes. 189 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,800 That's awesome. That's awesome. Congratulations to you for what you're doing. 190 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:28,800 I'm anxious to talk to you again as we get closer to March to find out what's going on with the whole thing and maybe we can carry this discussion on because it's it's valuable information that we all need to have, you know, not just the veterans of the community, but as you mentioned the civilians. 191 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:44,800 This is what we've been trying to do in one of our mission statements is, you know, not just to tell the story of, you know, America's, you know, warriors and so forth, but to invite the civilian world in to see what these men and women have gone through. 192 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:52,800 So on behalf of all of us here at the tragedy, I want to thank all three of you for stopping by today from all over California and Chicago. 193 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,800 And look forward to seeing you again and talking again. 194 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,800 Thank you. 195 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:08,800 Thank you all very much. All right, so that's elder warriors.org. Make sure you check them out. I think this sounds like a great program. 196 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:22,800 It's probably something that is spreading out across the country, I am sure we need to take a break. Right now we're going to when we come back, we're going to be talking with Lieutenant Colonel Tom Williams retired US Marine Marines on today. 197 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:31,800 And we'll be talking about his book series of books called Heart of a Marine. So you're listening to Veterans Radio. We will be right back after this. 198 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:43,800 The Medal of Honor is the highest award for valor and combat given a member of the Armed Forces of the United States. There have been over 3400 recipients of the nation's highest award. This is one of them. 199 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:51,800 PFC Raymond Clausen, a helicopter mechanic, volunteered to participate in a rescue mission. Details after this. 200 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:59,800 If you have a VA claim denied by the Board of Veterans Appeals, contact legal help for veterans at 1-800-693-4800. 201 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:07,800 They're experts in handling cases before the US Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims. Their number again, 1-800-693-4800. 202 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:13,800 The Marine platoon had been trapped in a minefield outside of Dunn-Airing. One Marine was already dead and 11 wounded. 203 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:19,800 It was Clausen's helicopter that had inserted the Marines and the crew felt responsible for getting them out. 204 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:24,800 He leaned out the side door to determine where mines had already exploded to help the chopper's land. 205 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:33,800 Then he jumped out and moved toward one of the wounded. As enemy fire bracketed him, he picked up the man, carried him to the helicopter and returned for a second Marine. 206 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:44,800 Clausen made six trips into the minefield, saving 18 Marines. Only when he was sure that all were safely aboard did he signal the pilot to lift off and leave the combat zone. 207 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:52,800 President Nixon presented him the Medal of Honor on June 15, 1971, shaking his hand and saying, well done, Marine. 208 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,800 The Medal of Honor series is a production of Veterans Radio. 209 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:05,800 Military veterans touch everyone's life. I'm guessing right now you're thinking of a veteran, a close friend, relative. Maybe it's you. 210 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:10,800 Even the toughest among us sometimes need help, but don't know where to turn for support. 211 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:17,800 You don't need special training to help a veteran in your life. If you know a veteran in crisis, don't wait. Reach out. 212 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:26,800 Call the Veterans Crisis Line at 988, then press 1. 988, press 1. A message from the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs. 213 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:43,800 And we're back here on Veterans Radio and joining me from Australia of all places is Lieutenant Colonel Tom, or yeah, Tom Williams, retired United States Marine Corps. 214 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:51,800 And he has started writing a series of books called The Heart of a Marine. And the first book is called Door Steps of Hell. 215 00:27:51,800 --> 00:28:04,800 Let me give you a quick background on Tom. He's been everywhere. It seemed like I was going to try and do this, but, you know, he's brought up in Georgia, went to college in Georgia. 216 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:14,800 And then when he joined the Marines, he had two tours in Vietnam, went from there everywhere. He's just been all over the world. 217 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:29,800 He's a trainer, was with the Marines, as I said, and ended up in the Middle East and every place else. So the idea here is I got to bring Tom on because this is, I think you're going to really enjoy this portion of the program. 218 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,800 So Tom, welcome to Veterans Radio. 219 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:34,800 Well, thank you, Dale. 220 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:56,800 It's a pleasure to have you on. And as I said earlier, you know, in reading your book, it's just, it's the story of so many veterans that we've had the privilege of talking to here on Veterans Radio is, you know, you weren't the greatest student in the world. 221 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:07,800 Initially, but you had language, you had linguistic skills, and that, you know, that were developed when you were, you know, when your father took you all over the world. 222 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:33,800 Well, I think just the other day, I had an encounter with somebody and they were about to have a child. He and his wife and I said, you know, the best gift you can give that child is to put him in a playgroup of youngsters that speak a different language other than English, 223 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:40,800 because learning another language leads to additional languages. 224 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:50,800 I learned Arabic and French as a youngster between the ages of six and nine, and that opened the door. 225 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:52,800 I wouldn't say it opened the door. 226 00:29:52,800 --> 00:30:03,800 It caused the Marine Corps to say your language skill is such that you're too smart to go to Ranger school. So we're going to send you to language school. 227 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:16,800 Well, I was heartbroken in a way because I wanted that Ranger quota. All my close friends were Army Ranger or airborne Rangers from North Georgia College. 228 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:27,800 But over time, I realized that was a gift that just kept on giving. 229 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:39,800 You know, in Vietnam, I learned to, I was able to interrogate prisoners. I was able to influence Vietnamese and win friends. 230 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:50,800 Well, I know just the idea of being able to speak another language is amazing to me and I don't have the skills of doing that, but I admire you. 231 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:57,800 So let's go back. So tell me why you decided at this point in your life to start writing stories about Marines. 232 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:04,800 Well, you know, I'll be 80 in December and I said to myself, self, what are you going to leave behind? 233 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:21,800 And there's a void out there. Avoid in that there are not enough of us who have been in the military that pass on the lessons we have learned, not just about combat. 234 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:42,800 Combat. Yes, it's very important. Once the politicians have failed to achieve by political means what they want to achieve, we are then thrown into the breach and we do what they are not able to do. 235 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:51,800 So I said I would start a series based on my my career. 236 00:31:51,800 --> 00:32:00,800 And because I'm a diarist, I have over 100 diaries in my library right over there that I've written. 237 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:15,800 I can recall any day of the year since 1968. So that's a resource that enables me to write the book that I've written. 238 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:21,800 This this first book, the second book is about my second tour. 239 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:31,800 I'm an aerial observer and as an aerial observer embedded with the Vietnamese and I have finished that book but we're polishing it. 240 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:42,800 The third book will be about my experiences as the NATO and TBS operations officer in Naples, Italy. 241 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:51,800 A lot of that book will be about antiquity. And then the third book will be about desert storm. 242 00:32:51,800 --> 00:33:03,800 Okay, well, I know in in in reading your book that you do have an incredible memory, obviously, and I'm sure that Diaries help because I don't remember what happened yesterday. 243 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:20,800 But, you know, that's what happens with multi was I want to I want to kind of go back and and and take this chronologically I'd like to go back and talk about your upbringing because you had a did not have the best upbringing until a certain gentlemen, you know, came into your life. 244 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:25,800 And so can you talk about growing up in Georgia. 245 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:34,800 Well, I didn't grow up in Georgia so much as I. Okay, let me go all the way back. 246 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,800 I was abandoned as an infant. 247 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:46,800 My mother handed me from pillar to post to family members all over the Savannah, South Georgia area. 248 00:33:46,800 --> 00:34:01,800 I was married Carl Filton Williams at the time a major in the US Air Force, one of the founding fathers of the US Air Force Jag in 1947. 249 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:10,800 I then found myself on a ship, a military transport ship going to Morocco. 250 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:16,800 All of a sudden, all my playmates are Arabs and French kids. 251 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:21,800 Well, if you don't speak, you don't play. 252 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:27,800 My dad rented a French citrus orchard outside of robot. 253 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:29,800 We lived there for three years. 254 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:31,800 We went to suits. 255 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:40,800 My dad, being a history buff, took me to my first Roman ruin, the Lubanus in Morocco. 256 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:52,800 That that that gave me a passion which continues for Roman history or antiquity, if you will, then came back to the states. 257 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:57,800 And he was the staff judge advocate at Travis Air Force Base. 258 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:03,800 Then the staff judge advocate at Shaw Air Force Base in South Carolina. 259 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:08,800 And the next thing you know, I'm in Japan as a high school student. 260 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,800 And I'm learning a little bit of Japanese. 261 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:17,800 After that, dad decided to retire. 262 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,800 And that's when we went back to the farm. 263 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:26,800 I was a junior and senior in high school. 264 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,800 No audio here. 265 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:31,800 Can you hear me now? I can. 266 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,800 I lost your audio after your dad retired. 267 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,800 Yeah, dad retired. 268 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:47,800 We went back to Georgia and dad and his brother and his mother owned a farm that had been established in 1832. 269 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,800 Georgia was not a state. 270 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:56,800 So it was called the Indian territory at that time. 271 00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:03,800 Well, we just kept building on the farm and I learned to manage field hands. 272 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:10,800 I drove a tractor, I raised peanuts, cotton, corn and soybeans. 273 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:11,800 We had cattle. 274 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,800 We had pigs, goats and a few sheep. 275 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,800 Well, then I went off to North Georgia College. 276 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:27,800 And that's where I really found the true value of Tom Williams at the military school at North Georgia College. 277 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:36,800 Yeah, I wanted to spend some time at North Georgia because evidently this was a pretty well known. 278 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:41,800 And I guess it still is a well known kind of a military school sort of like the Citadel type of thing. 279 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,800 But their ROTC program. 280 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:45,800 That's correct. 281 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,800 There are five essential military schools at that time. 282 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:56,800 The Citadel being one VMI, North Georgia College, Norwich and Texas A&M. 283 00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:06,800 Of course, we at North Georgia, we took pride in the fact that we were at the foot of the Appalachian Mountains. 284 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:16,800 So and we were co located to La Niga, Georgia with the mountain phase of the Ranger program. 285 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:27,800 And so I became in time the executive officer of the mountaineering club platoon. 286 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:51,800 Because I was a stepchild, I was expected to run the farm in the summer and then during school year at college, I earned my spending money by serving meals in the mess hall, the school mess hall. 287 00:37:51,800 --> 00:38:00,800 And then the dietitian got me another job running the movies on Friday and Saturday night. 288 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:11,800 So, they don't do this anymore. I don't think kids are working their way through school. We don't hear about them running. Well, they don't need projectors anymore. 289 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:17,800 But the idea of working the mess hall, whatever it took to get you in through school. 290 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,800 That's correct. Well, I had to first learn how to study. 291 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:29,800 I mean, I was on probation initially, because I had very little supervision as a student in high school. 292 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:34,800 I was kind of an action junkie on steroids. 293 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:42,800 Or you might say I was Huckleberry Finn on steroids in my youth. 294 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:53,800 It sounds like it in reading the book. The first book, The Doorsteps of Hell, is kind of gives us a background of how Tom kind of developed. 295 00:38:53,800 --> 00:39:00,800 What is it that you took away from North Georgia when you graduated from there? You were ready to go. 296 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,800 What is it that you learn in your in your in your message? 297 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:13,800 It's probably three or four things. The first in college. Yes, you're there to get a degree. 298 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:23,800 But the most important degree that you receive is a lifelong group of friends. 299 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:33,800 Those fellow students, both male and female, are some of the closest friends I ever had. 300 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:38,800 Second, I learned who Tom Williams was. 301 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:44,800 Okay, I found him embedded in this body. 302 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:52,800 And I became known because I became known as action. 303 00:39:52,800 --> 00:40:08,800 I was constantly on the move, either academically doing patrols, climbing, or writing. 304 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:18,800 And then I reckon the last thing I fell in love with the military mindset. 305 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:26,800 I went back last year and I was offered the opportunity to address the cadet leadership. 306 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:37,800 And the first question I asked the student, the cadet leadership was, how many of you are hunters? 307 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:50,800 There were no hands raised. I said, you understand that you're here in preparation for a career in the military. 308 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:54,800 You're joining a hunting club. 309 00:40:54,800 --> 00:41:03,800 And you'd better be a better hunter than your adversary because he has a rifle and he is hunting you. 310 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:12,800 And I emphasize something else too, that your mission as a company grade officer, 311 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:22,800 a second lieutenant, first lieutenant and captain will always be to close with and capture the enemy. 312 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:37,800 But don't ever forget, once you have captured your enemy, it is as much your obligation to protect him as it was your original intent to kill him. 313 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:47,800 Unfortunately, that was not emphasized enough, I think, during my time in the service. 314 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:55,800 That's how we ended up with somebody like Cali. And I think you know, the story of Cali. 315 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,800 Yes, I do. 316 00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:05,800 All right, so from North Georgia College, you decided to go into the Marines for some unknown reason. 317 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:09,800 Why did you decide to go the Marine route instead of the Air Force? 318 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:14,800 Well, I had a little conflict with the military department at North Georgia College. 319 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:29,800 There were some damn good instructors, but I found that amongst the cadet corps, there were a handful of cadets that stood out. 320 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:35,800 And those cadets were all Marine contract students. 321 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:44,800 So I decided I want to be one of them. I don't want to be in this large, huge thing called the Army. 322 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:54,800 Nothing against the Army. I learned an awful lot at North Georgia College about tactics, techniques and procedures. 323 00:42:54,800 --> 00:43:02,800 I have a great admiration for the Airborne, the Rangers, the Special Forces, but think about it. 324 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:07,800 They're all specialists in the Army. 325 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:19,800 I wanted to be a Marine because of what I saw the Marines cadets at North Georgia displayed as the best, if you will. 326 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,800 Well, the Marines are Marines. They're always Marines. 327 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:29,800 Well, if you're going to be a Marine, I always say, be a badass Marine. 328 00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:35,800 I agree. 329 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:45,800 So you decided to join the Marine and he went through all of the different schools for the Marines, the OCS and the new school. 330 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,800 Where did that go? I wrote it down somewhere here. 331 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,800 Oh, the basic school. You had OCS and then you had the basic school. 332 00:43:52,800 --> 00:44:04,800 We're going to run out of time. I can already tell this, but can you tell me that it's OCS, just the normal officer candidate school? 333 00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:09,800 And then the basic school is more intense? 334 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:24,800 The first thing you need to know about Marine Corps, about Marine Corps ROTC is that it's a deslection process. 335 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:29,800 They're doing everything they can to break you. 336 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:37,800 They want to know what kind of metal METTLE you are made of. 337 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:49,800 And second, they then will build you up to be the Marine that will go to the basic school. 338 00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:50,800 Okay. 339 00:44:50,800 --> 00:45:11,800 The proudest I am of my OCS officer candidate school is I set the Marine Corps record 100 yard 14 obstacle O-course. I ran that in 52 seconds. 340 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:28,800 And then TBS, you then learn what it is to be an officer, what it is to lead, what it is with every weapon, squad tactics, platoon tactics, company tactics. 341 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:48,800 You fire every weapon. And then you go to any specialty courses after the basic school and become an artilleryman or an aviator, or in my case, I went to language school before going to Vietnam. 342 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:55,800 Okay. Well, I mean, that's the training you received just sounds remarkable to me and is so intense. 343 00:45:55,800 --> 00:46:01,800 I guess I'd never really thought about it. You know, being a war officer, our only job was to fly. 344 00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:05,800 That was it. We didn't have any command responsibility at all. 345 00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:12,800 Oh, you know, in fact, we could tell a colonel if he got on our aircraft and he wanted to do something, we could say, no, get off. 346 00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:18,800 And you couldn't do anything to us. That's why we stayed in our seats so often after a flight. 347 00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:31,800 But the responsibilities that you had as a, especially I think as a Marine, you know, platoon leader, squad leader, company leader, whatever it is. 348 00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:37,800 I mean, you have that responsibility for those men under you to keep them alive. 349 00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:42,800 And I know that that's that was your main goal when you got to Vietnam. 350 00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:51,800 Well, keeping them alive. Yes. But you also had to trick the enemy. 351 00:46:51,800 --> 00:47:07,800 You had it because this was a hide and seek. It was a platoon commander, company commander war for those of us who participated in it as infantry commanders at whatever level. 352 00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:15,800 I became known for moving at night in the rain. 353 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:21,800 And that really didn't make my Marines very happy. 354 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:25,800 But I learned early on and I learned through my dad. 355 00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:32,800 And we were getting feedback from other North Georgia cadets who had already been commissioned in. 356 00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:33,800 We're in Vietnam. 357 00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,800 Lessons learned. That's kind of some of this. 358 00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:42,800 This idea of why I'm writing. 359 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:50,800 So we, we at North Georgia took very seriously. 360 00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:52,800 We're going to war. 361 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:57,800 There ain't no if it's when and what do you want to know? 362 00:47:57,800 --> 00:47:59,800 Well, you better be good at it. 363 00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:04,800 Map and compass patrolling and bushing. 364 00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:08,800 So I know that you did all that. 365 00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,800 And I was thinking of one of your one of the stories in the book that I read was about. 366 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:19,800 And this is a little out of context, but you were talking about an M 79 blooper. 367 00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:24,800 Yes, that trigger memory for you trying to get across the rice fatty. 368 00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:34,800 My company commander ordered me around a huge rice patty and I was supposed to tie in on the river. 369 00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:44,800 And then he was supposed to take a platoon and we were going to, we were going to squeeze the enemy on the, on the river and trap him. 370 00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:48,800 I, I warned my company commander. 371 00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:57,800 Before I left him to make the trek around the patty, huge patty, I'm talking 1000 meters. 372 00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:00,800 Don't leave without a platoon. 373 00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:03,800 Your headquarters groups not big enough. 374 00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:05,800 Well, he didn't. 375 00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:06,800 He thought he could. 376 00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:08,800 This was his third tour. 377 00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:15,800 And he got himself pinned down in a bomb crater. 378 00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:22,800 I had to do a 90 to three current to come relieve him. 379 00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:26,800 Across the patty, the enemy were coming out. 380 00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:28,800 He was, he was driving him off. 381 00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:32,800 He was defending himself, but he's in a bomb crater. 382 00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:37,800 He's driving the enemy back, but they're keeping him pinned down. 383 00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:44,800 And they started coming out into the rice patty in my direction, not knowing that I was there. 384 00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:46,800 Well, hello. 385 00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:48,800 Surprise, surprise. 386 00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:53,800 My first kill was one of my bloopers. 387 00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:58,800 M79 men raised his weapon. 388 00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:05,800 Kentucky windage at max range, 305 meters. 389 00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:09,800 He hit him in the chest and he disappeared. 390 00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:18,800 And we continued the attack killing enemy as they came out in our direction. 391 00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:27,800 As and just to just to deviate a little bit, the OV 10 pilot. 392 00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:32,800 And that was the first experience with an aerial observer I had. 393 00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:38,800 That kind of said to me, if I live through this, I want to be one of those guys. 394 00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:50,800 Because his eyes in the sky, like you will know, is able to see the big picture and not just what's in front of you. 395 00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:54,800 And I later worked for him, that pilot. 396 00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:55,800 Really? 397 00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:56,800 All right. 398 00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,800 Well, we're running as I said, we know we're running up against the end. 399 00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:04,800 So, you know, we've got about two minutes left before we have to get out of here. 400 00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:11,800 And so can you tell me one lesson that you would like to leave our audience with today? 401 00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:13,800 We're going to have you back on, I promise. 402 00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:16,800 But today, let's say a one lesson. 403 00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:26,800 The one lesson that I would tell you is that on the battlefield, there is a secret weapon. 404 00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:32,800 And that secret weapon is the individual Marine or soldier. 405 00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:37,800 You take care of your soldier, you take care of your Marine. 406 00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:44,800 They will take care of business and they will take care of you. 407 00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:51,800 I remember reading that in the book, you're talking about what your responsibilities as a commander are. 408 00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:55,800 And also to get to know your men. 409 00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:57,800 Yes, sir. 410 00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:04,800 And I often regret that I didn't get to know every Marine personally. 411 00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,800 I knew the ones I could count on. 412 00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:15,800 And in particular, I had a corporal who was my platoon sergeant. 413 00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:17,800 Tommy Bird, T-Bird. 414 00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:22,800 I have the highest regard for him. 415 00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:27,800 And it's tough. 416 00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:36,800 Kind of going back to what we were talking about earlier on with our elder warriors is it's so important for us to tell these stories, 417 00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:45,800 to get them out so that we can get rid of the cobwebs in our minds about what was really going on. 418 00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:47,800 We've been talking here with Tom Williams. 419 00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:54,800 As I said, we need to talk more about it. He's coming out with a series of books entitled Heart of a Marine. 420 00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:58,800 And the first book is titled Door Steps of Hell. 421 00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:01,800 And you can get this on your website. 422 00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:03,800 What is your website, Tom? 423 00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:11,800 My website is www.heartofamarienseries.com. 424 00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,800 And the first book is this one right here. 425 00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:19,800 And that's me on the cover as a 24-year-old. 426 00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:21,800 Yeah, I love those old pictures. 427 00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:22,800 They were great. 428 00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:27,800 So, and you can get them on Amazon because I got a Kindle version of the book on Amazon. 429 00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:28,800 It's a great story. 430 00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:30,800 Tom, thank you so much for your time. 431 00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:31,800 Don't go away. 432 00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:35,800 We can continue this conversation when we go off the air. 433 00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:39,800 We are going to go out as usual with a God Bless America. 434 00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:40,800 You know, I love this song. 435 00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:41,800 I think it's so important. 436 00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,800 This version happens to be Leanne Reims, Our Rhymes. 437 00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:49,800 And so this is the version that we're going to have today. 438 00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:52,800 I think I'm coming up toward the end of the program, aren't I? 439 00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:54,800 I'm really at the end. 440 00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:58,800 Okay, so until next week, this is Dale Thoreau-Marie for all of us here at Veterans Radio. 441 00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:15,800 You are dismissed. 442 00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:54,800 Thank you. 443 00:54:54,800 --> 00:55:20,800 Thank you. 444 00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:50,800 Thank you. 445 00:55:54,800 --> 00:56:21,800 Thank you. 446 00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:31,800 Thank you.