1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:15,880 All across America and around the world, this is Veterans Radio. 2 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:23,080 And now, your host for today's program, Dale Throneberry. 3 00:00:23,080 --> 00:00:25,000 And welcome to Veterans Radio. 4 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:29,400 Today's program is about two Army nurses, one fictional and one real. 5 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:34,640 Our good friend, Mark Leapson from the Vietnam Veterans of America's magazine, The Veteran, 6 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:39,240 interviewed author, Kristen Hannah, author of the number one bestseller, The Women, and 7 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:44,520 Diane Carlson Evans, an Army nurse in Vietnam, 1968 to 69. 8 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:49,160 Today we are only using part of Diane's interview about her time in Vietnam. 9 00:00:49,160 --> 00:00:55,160 For her complete interview, go to vvavetrin.org slash videos. 10 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:56,680 Mark is a Vietnam veteran. 11 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:02,000 He is also the veterans art editor for the veteran magazine and the book reviewer does 12 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,600 an excellent job with all of his interviews and we're hoping that we can use more of them 13 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:06,600 in the future. 14 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:11,280 We've also got our monthly National Veterans Business Development Council highlight. 15 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:16,040 This month it is Jim Calper, who is on the advisory board of NBVDC. 16 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:20,920 Okay, before we get into Mark's interview with Kristen Hannah, we need to thank our 17 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:26,160 sponsors beginning with legal help for veterans specializing in veterans disability claims 18 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:35,400 call legal help for veterans at 800-69-348-00 or go to their website at legalhelpforveterans.com. 19 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:40,520 The National Veterans Business Development Council, better known as NBVDC, is the nation's 20 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:45,040 leading third party authority for certification of a veteran-owned business. 21 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:53,800 For more information, go to their website, nvvdc.org, or give them a call at 888-237-8433. 22 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,880 The Charles S. Kettles VA Medical Center in Ann Arbor, Michigan, for more information 23 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:00,800 about them, go to va.gov. 24 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:08,360 The Vietnam Veterans of America never again will one generation of veterans abandon another. 25 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:12,560 For more information, go to their website, vva.org. 26 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:17,840 Their Erwin Presscorn, American Legion Post-46 and the Charles S. Kettles Vietnam Veterans 27 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:21,680 of America Chapter 310, both of Ann Arbor, Michigan. 28 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:27,440 All right, let's get right into our program today with women nurses in Vietnam. 29 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:31,360 So here's Mark Leapson with Kristen Hannah. 30 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:36,440 Welcome to Dispatches, a production of the VVA Veteran Magazine and Vietnam Veterans 31 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:41,040 of America, hosted by arts editor Mark Leapson. 32 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:47,040 Each episode is a one-on-one interview with a writer, novelist, actor, director, or other 33 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,880 artist whose work is influenced by the Vietnam War. 34 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:56,360 In addition to appearing on the VVA Veterans Facebook page, archived episodes can be found 35 00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:00,040 on the magazine's webpage and on VVA's website. 36 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,920 And now let's begin. 37 00:03:02,920 --> 00:03:08,760 Welcome everyone to Episode 23 of Dispatches, a production of the VVA Veteran Magazine, 38 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:13,600 coming to you live and on tape, as always, from Vietnam Veterans of America's National 39 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:17,160 Headquarters right here in downtown Silver Spring, Maryland. 40 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:22,800 Our special guest today is Kristen Hannah, the prolific bestselling, as in number one 41 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:28,840 bestselling author of, and I think I counted right, 19 novels, including The Nightingale 42 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:29,840 and The Four Winds. 43 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:35,080 And her books have been translated into 43 languages and counting. 44 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:39,640 Her new novel, The Women, which shot to the top of all the bestseller lists the minute 45 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:45,680 it came out on February 6, is the story of Frankie McGrath, who joins the Army Nurse Corps 46 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:52,280 at 20 years old and within months finds herself in South Vietnam working in an evac hospital 47 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,960 hip deep and just about the worst that war can offer. 48 00:03:55,960 --> 00:04:02,200 The Women is a great, fast-moving, plot-twisting, compelling novel that tells Frankie's story 49 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:07,240 during and after her service in Vietnam, and it's what we'll be focusing on here today 50 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:08,800 on Dispatches. 51 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:13,600 Very quickly, Kristen was in elementary and junior high school during the Vietnam War. 52 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,760 She grew up in California in the Pacific Northwest. 53 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:23,520 She went to law school and was a practicing attorney before turning to writing full-time. 54 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:28,400 She comes to us today from her book tour on the road somewhere in the western part of 55 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:29,400 the United States. 56 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,200 Kristen, it's great to see you. 57 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:36,000 Congratulations on your amazing book and welcome to Dispatches. 58 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:37,200 Thank you so much. 59 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:38,800 It's really an honor to be here. 60 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:46,480 Well, it's our pleasure and let's just dive in here. 61 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,920 It struck me that you were an attorney, which we're not going to hold anything against you 62 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:55,040 for being an attorney. 63 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,480 I know there are attorneys who've turned to writing, but can you just tell us a little 64 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,200 bit about that? 65 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,840 Why did you give up the law, turn to writing briefly? 66 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:05,840 Sure. 67 00:05:05,840 --> 00:05:13,320 Well, as you point out, I was a lawyer and this path for me really started when I was 68 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:14,320 in law school. 69 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:21,800 I was young and my mother was dying of breast cancer. 70 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:28,800 I was visiting her in the hospital and there was some point where I was complaining about 71 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,200 something in my life and she said, don't worry. 72 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:34,760 You're going to be a writer anyway. 73 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:39,920 That somehow led us to have a conversation where she said, you know what, we should write 74 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:42,960 a book together. 75 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:44,560 That was sort of the very beginning. 76 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:49,880 We started planning this historical romance novel, which is what she read back in those 77 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:50,880 days. 78 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:58,200 I would go to the library and get all of these documents and Xerox everything and bring it 79 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,080 to her. 80 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:07,600 For the last couple of months of her life, we just sort of imagined this novel together. 81 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:12,840 I wrote actually the first page the day she died. 82 00:06:12,840 --> 00:06:17,880 She didn't get to ever read me, but I did get to tell her that I had started on this 83 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:18,880 road. 84 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,320 That was really the beginning. 85 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:27,400 Then ultimately, when I had my son, I really just wanted to be an at-home mom. 86 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:29,320 That was really important to me. 87 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:35,800 Probably because I had lost my own mom not that much before. 88 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:41,600 When I was pregnant, that's when I thought, well, maybe I'll try this writing thing and 89 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:43,960 see if I can make that work. 90 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:48,720 You mentioned historical fiction. 91 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:50,200 Was that the only reason? 92 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,520 Had you always been interested in history? 93 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,640 Would you characterize your book as historical fiction? 94 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:03,720 I pushed back a little on the Vietnam War being called historical fiction. 95 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:09,960 I wrote a book set in 1970s Alaska, which they also call historical fiction. 96 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:15,600 I pushed back a little bit on the idea that my own life is actually historical fiction 97 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:17,680 at this point. 98 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:26,600 I do think that in the last probably 15 years, I have really been focused on sort of shining 99 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,800 a light on women's lost historical stories. 100 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:37,440 Stories where women were doing something that I think is amazing that was not taught in 101 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:41,160 school, that was not passed along to people. 102 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:46,160 I'm trying to sort of recapture some of our own history. 103 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:47,160 Yeah. 104 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:51,200 Well, which you do extremely well, by the way, in the women. 105 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:58,120 I wanted to say that it is a little bit weird as someone who's a Vietnam War veteran to 106 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:00,520 think that we're now history. 107 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:01,880 I know. 108 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:09,040 It was 55 years ago, but nevertheless, but we move on. 109 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:15,680 I know that you were thinking about this subject for a long time. 110 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:19,480 I read it, I think, on your website. 111 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:21,520 Tell me, tell us about that. 112 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:26,880 What brought you, in other words, the typical question, what brought you to writing about 113 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:27,880 this? 114 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:34,040 How come it took so long to gestate and fill us in on that part, please? 115 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:41,080 Well, as you point out, I was a child during the Vietnam War, and it obviously cast a huge 116 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:43,440 shadow across my life. 117 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:51,960 My best girlfriend in third grade, her father was an Air Force pilot, and he was shot down. 118 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:56,000 In those days, we wore the prisoner of war bracelet. 119 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:01,000 I put that on in remembrance, and the idea, of course, was to take it off when he came 120 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:02,880 home. 121 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,160 The fact was that I wore it for decades. 122 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:11,960 It was his name and his loss, even when I moved away and went on to college and went 123 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:17,560 on with my life, his name and that memory was with me all the time. 124 00:09:17,560 --> 00:09:23,080 Of course, even as a child, by the time I was in junior high, I saw how the vets were 125 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:28,480 treated when they came home, because a lot of them were my friends' dads. 126 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:34,560 We lived in a community that had a lot of military service. 127 00:09:34,560 --> 00:09:35,880 It just really stuck with me. 128 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:42,680 I've written about it several times, veterans and PTSD. 129 00:09:42,680 --> 00:09:45,400 I think I've just been fascinated for a long time. 130 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:55,280 In fact, I first pitched this A novel about the Vietnam era to my editor in 1997. 131 00:09:55,280 --> 00:10:00,360 She said, honey, you aren't old enough and you aren't good enough. 132 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,480 Come back to me when you are. 133 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:07,040 I really took that to heart and actually it's one of the best pieces of advice I ever got 134 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,680 because I wasn't a good enough writer. 135 00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:20,480 I wasn't old enough and I didn't have enough, I guess, life experience to dial into this. 136 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:27,080 Of course, as you well know, there was a long period where nobody wanted to talk about Vietnam. 137 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:28,360 Nobody wanted to hear about it. 138 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:32,000 There certainly weren't writing books about it. 139 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:39,360 I just put it aside and thought, okay, this is something I want to do. 140 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,200 Every couple of years, I would check in and think, am I ready? 141 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,160 Is the world ready? 142 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,400 I kept saying no. 143 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:52,560 I knew this was going to be an important book and it would take everything I had and I wanted 144 00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:54,840 to be ready. 145 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:59,600 It wasn't until March of 2020. 146 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:05,040 I live in Seattle and we were on full lockdown and actually I live on an island so we were 147 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:09,520 really locked down. 148 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:15,760 I was watching the news again, of course, and the anger, the political division, the chaos 149 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:23,400 that was going on, I think it all made me think of that era, the late 60s again. 150 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:30,440 Then I was watching the nurses who were on the front line of the pandemic, the nurses 151 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:37,920 and doctors who were sacrificing so much for us and not in a lot of instances getting the 152 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:43,320 support and the respect that I felt that they deserved. 153 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:51,040 This all came together and made me think about the Vietnam era and the nurses. 154 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:57,400 I started doing some research and once I uncovered their stories, there was no question. 155 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:02,160 I thought this story needs to be told. 156 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:03,160 Let's talk a little bit. 157 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:04,160 That was going to be my next question. 158 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,400 Let's talk a little bit about your research. 159 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:07,400 I know you also... 160 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:15,440 Well, you explained it in the acknowledges section of the book, but I think it's worth 161 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:22,600 going over because one of the things that Vietnam War veterans, when we read books about 162 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:26,360 our experience, we're looking for authenticity. 163 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:30,840 We're looking for verisimilitude in a novel. 164 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:35,280 I'm guessing that you had that near the top of your mind. 165 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:36,280 Could you just go over that? 166 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:39,000 Of course, we'll talk about Diane Carlson. 167 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:40,000 Right. 168 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:41,000 Yeah. 169 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:42,000 Well, yes. 170 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,160 I mean, it was a daunting task. 171 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:51,720 A daunting task for a woman who isn't a vet, isn't a nurse, wasn't in Vietnam, wasn't even 172 00:12:51,720 --> 00:13:00,800 grown up during this period to take on something that I felt so strongly about and that I felt 173 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:04,960 so needed to be told. 174 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:12,160 One of the ways that I cut down on the amount of research I had to do because I realized 175 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,200 very quickly, I can't do it all. 176 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:21,320 I can only do a piece of this story and leave the rest of other pieces to other people. 177 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:32,240 Fortunately, there are several, well, many amazing memoirs written about Vietnam and 178 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,560 several of them are from nurses. 179 00:13:35,560 --> 00:13:40,120 That was really the pay dirt. 180 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:46,280 Once I found Diane Carlson Evans' Healing Wounds and Linda Van DeVanters' Home Before 181 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:54,080 Morning and Winnie Smith wrote, I mean, there's just these amazing, amazing memoirs. 182 00:13:54,080 --> 00:14:00,520 I used those as research and I actually wrote the entire first draft of the book. 183 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:04,360 Of course, this was COVID, so I couldn't go to Vietnam either. 184 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,760 It all had to be done remotely. 185 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:13,400 Once I finished the first draft and I knew what the book was theoretically going to be 186 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:21,640 about, what my story was and where I was going, that's when I realized, okay, now I need 187 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:30,400 some help from somebody, not so much to create the book, but to look for authenticity for 188 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:35,720 the kind of verisimilitude that you're talking about because one of the things that was really 189 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:41,560 important to me, I had written a book called Home Front about a female Black Hawk pilot 190 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,040 who deployed a few years ago. 191 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:51,840 I remember in writing that, having the conversation with her that she was not technically in combat. 192 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:52,920 She was not in combat. 193 00:14:52,920 --> 00:15:01,160 She was flying Blackhawks to pick up soldiers who were being fired on, but somehow she wasn't. 194 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:09,120 It was really important to me that I show that in my opinion, being a nurse in one of 195 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:17,280 these hospitals in New York, in Vietnam, was combat. 196 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:20,080 It had to be really visceral. 197 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:24,440 Diane was a huge help and a mentor. 198 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:30,400 As you know, she does not hold her opinions lightly or quietly. 199 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,520 She was getting in there and telling me. 200 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:42,880 Then she put me in touch with Doug Moore, who was a helicopter Medevac pilot, and Beth 201 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,680 Parks, who was a surgical nurse. 202 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:52,320 She just kept giving me to other people to check other parts of the book. 203 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,960 Their help was just invaluable. 204 00:15:54,960 --> 00:16:00,560 By the way, Diane read her memoir and reviewed it in The Veteran. 205 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,000 We're going to review your book, too, in the next issue. 206 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:08,320 It's going to be in the May-June issue. 207 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:12,080 March-April is going to press tomorrow. 208 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:16,480 Also, Diane, she was on dispatch. 209 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,360 Her memoir was great. 210 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:24,640 I totally understand why you went to her and why she was so valuable to you. 211 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:30,320 Linda VanDeVanter, through her novel, I just parenthetically, just in case you don't know, 212 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:36,560 Vietnam Veterans of America, we're a little bit different than the old line veteran service 213 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:38,800 organizations in many ways. 214 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,040 We started in 1978. 215 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,600 From the beginning, we have had active women members. 216 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:54,480 In fact, Linda VanDeVanter, Bobby Muller, who started VVA, he was a Marine Vietnam and 217 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:59,680 became a veteran's advocate big time. 218 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:04,760 Anyway, Bobby tells a story that back in 1978, he was in his office and we started at very 219 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:12,000 humble beginnings in Washington, D.C. Linda walked in and said, oh, Bobby, my name is Linda 220 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:13,000 VanDeVanter. 221 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,040 There were women who served in Vietnam. 222 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:17,200 This goes right to your book, of course. 223 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,000 I'll never forget Bobby. 224 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:24,400 When he recounted that story, he said, oh, my God, we forgot the women. 225 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:30,600 I thought of that when I was reading your book. 226 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,320 Linda became active in leadership in VVA. 227 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,600 We had the first national women veterans committee. 228 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,600 We still do. 229 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:44,800 Diane, of course, has been a member since the early 80s and accredited to Vietnam Veterans 230 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:50,880 of America for helping her with her post-traumatic stress. 231 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,360 Of course, the memorial. 232 00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:58,240 I wanted to ask you, through your research with the memoirs and talking to Diane and 233 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:04,480 others, was there anything that stood out to you that you didn't know or surprised you 234 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:09,680 of what they told you about their experiences in Vietnam and after? 235 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:15,440 Of course, it surprised me even though it shouldn't have, but really understanding how 236 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,400 young they were. 237 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:25,840 Reading at this from my age and thinking about doing this at 20 or 21, that was the first 238 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:29,240 thing that hit me really hard. 239 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:38,160 I think the most interesting thing is I kept reading in the memoirs that early on, just 240 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:47,200 post, right when they got home, they would go to help or to go to a group or seek something 241 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:53,480 as veterans and they kept being told there were no women in Vietnam. 242 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:58,360 In reading that, I kept thinking to myself, that simply cannot be true. 243 00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:01,400 It just cannot be. 244 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:02,400 We've seen MASH. 245 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:08,920 We know there have been women in every war since forever. 246 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:18,240 I was really shocked at the level at which the women had been marginalized and forgotten. 247 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,400 I kept thinking it can't be true. 248 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:30,640 Last Veterans Day, Diane invited me to join her in DC for the 30th anniversary of the 249 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:34,280 memorial, the women's memorial. 250 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,880 That was one of my questions to all of the women. 251 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,280 Like really, did you experience this? 252 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,000 They did. 253 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:49,520 I think that's the thing that stays with me the most is the extent to which their service 254 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,320 was forgotten. 255 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,200 I'm reading the book. 256 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,560 I saw that you got that in there. 257 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:56,560 Fair man. 258 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:57,560 I did. 259 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,480 I totally agree with you. 260 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:05,040 By the way, I was at that Veterans Day 30th anniversary. 261 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,040 It was really moving. 262 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:09,680 A few commemorations there. 263 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:15,360 It was one of the better ones. 264 00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:16,360 Here's another thing. 265 00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:20,560 I have a friend who is a novelist, a screenwriter. 266 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:24,160 One day we were discussing something about plot or whatever. 267 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:29,040 I'll never forget what he told me, which came to me as I was reading the book. 268 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,320 He said, we're talking about characters. 269 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,920 He said, never make it easy for them. 270 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:43,800 I wanted to ask you about that because you did not make it easy for poor Frankie and the 271 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:44,800 others. 272 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:46,680 Can you explain that a little bit? 273 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:48,840 What your process was on that? 274 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:50,000 It's interesting. 275 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:56,080 I actually wrote the first draft of this novel, which was substantial. 276 00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:04,000 It was exactly the same up through her coming home from her tours of duty. 277 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,440 It was much easier for her. 278 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:08,600 In that version, she was married. 279 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,320 There was all kinds of different things. 280 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,680 She had a lot of support system. 281 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:23,240 The bottom line was, when I finished that, I felt that it was doing a disservice to all 282 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:30,640 the Vietnam vets and that it wasn't being fair in not addressing PTSD, in not addressing 283 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:37,480 their invisibility, in not addressing the lack of help that they received when they 284 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,360 came home. 285 00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:47,680 That's when I leaned into what so many of the memoirs had talked about from male and female 286 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:53,040 vets about the difficulties coming home. 287 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:59,480 When I started really looking at what it was like for so many of them, it really was one 288 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:07,400 bad thing after another trying to become healthy and whole again. 289 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:08,400 Absolutely. 290 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,880 It happened to men too. 291 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:17,280 Not to belittle what happened to women because it happened to all of us, but women had it 292 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:23,960 worse because, just like you point out and you said, people didn't compute for some reason. 293 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:28,960 Also, can you just continue that a little bit with her tour of duty? 294 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:30,320 Well, you spilled the beans. 295 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:31,320 There's a second tour. 296 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:32,320 I did. 297 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,320 I gave it away. 298 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:42,440 Slight spoiler alert. 299 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:43,440 Especially when she got there. 300 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,600 Man, you put her through hell. 301 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:47,600 Tell me about that. 302 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:51,320 Was that again, don't make it easy for her or just? 303 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:52,320 Yeah. 304 00:22:52,320 --> 00:23:00,320 Again, I think, yes, it was the whole fish out of water and the horror of coming into 305 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,320 a place where you're entirely unprepared. 306 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:14,040 But I think more, it was simply a reflection of what a vast number of the women and the 307 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:18,600 men probably felt when they landed in country. 308 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:23,840 One of the things I discovered you were asking me about research that surprised me was in 309 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:30,040 one of my research books or whatever, they were talking about how one of the differences 310 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:39,160 in Vietnam were men were essentially sent over individually as opposed to in platoons. 311 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:43,120 The women experienced that same, okay, I'm dropped in alone. 312 00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:48,440 You don't have any support system when you get there and you don't have enough training 313 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,600 to be there. 314 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:55,640 There isn't necessarily time to get you up to speed. 315 00:23:55,640 --> 00:24:04,080 It was just really important for me to show that arc, that human arc of Frankie going 316 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:10,680 from a nurse who has no business being here to a nurse that is so good that she can't 317 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,600 imagine leaving. 318 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:19,480 You hit something really big there and that was the rotation system. 319 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,880 It wasn't platoon. 320 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:27,480 The first few units that came over when the buildup started in 1965, they came over on 321 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,880 ships like the World War II guys did. 322 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,960 But then for most of the war, there were 2.8 million who served. 323 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,120 So I'd say probably two and a half million of us. 324 00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:46,680 Just like Frank, just like the nurses, we came over individually and there were so many 325 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,640 things wrong with that. 326 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,880 One was what they call unit cohesion. 327 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:57,120 Here, you're plopped into a unit where some guys have been there for 11 months, 10 months, 328 00:24:57,120 --> 00:25:03,200 6 months, 5 months, and there you are, then you go and it keeps on continuing. 329 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,120 I think you showed that very, very well with Frankie. 330 00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:09,400 This is the first day when she got to the unit. 331 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:10,400 Good grief. 332 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:11,400 Yeah. 333 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,200 So let me have just a couple more questions. 334 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,240 Tell me about the editorial experience with you. 335 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:19,240 Finished product. 336 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,400 How did that work? 337 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:28,280 I'm a very collaborative writer. 338 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:33,640 I listen to people very well and I pivot and change a lot. 339 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:39,880 And so like I said, this first draft that I gave to Diane and that I gave to my editor 340 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,960 was a very different second half of the novel. 341 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:53,320 And it was my editor who upon reading it said, this Vietnam, this section of her at war is 342 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,720 so powerful and so visceral. 343 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:05,160 And you have to have a second half that feels as important, as dangerous, as difficult, 344 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,160 or the book like peaks at the halfway mark. 345 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:19,520 And so, and that's when I really kind of, my knee jerk reaction initially was that I 346 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,800 didn't want to do PTSD again to this extent. 347 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,680 I didn't want to do self-medicating. 348 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,400 I didn't want to do any of the kinds of issues. 349 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:34,120 I felt at first that it would be disrespectful. 350 00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:41,040 And ultimately, I realized that it was not only not disrespectful, it was important to 351 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:50,640 be honest about how deep this trouble was and how deeply we as a nation and as a government 352 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,920 did not help the warriors that we had sent off. 353 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,080 Well said, and that's exactly what happened. 354 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:03,920 And let me ask you the usual final question, or maybe a little bit of a twist. 355 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:10,000 So I'm not going to give away the ending, but could we see more of Frankie in the future? 356 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:17,680 You know, I have to say, Mark, I hear that question with every book. 357 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,040 I don't know. 358 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:27,320 I don't at this moment, see more story for her, but we'll have to wait and see. 359 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:33,280 As you and I were talking sort of in the green room before this, I've been so surprised 360 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:40,160 at the level of response and support that this book has gotten. 361 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:45,200 And I would say an awful lot from the children of Vietnam vets. 362 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,400 I'm really hearing from them. 363 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:53,800 And what they're saying is, you know, my dad never talked about this. 364 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,920 You know, a few say my mom, but mostly it's my dad. 365 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,240 And I had no idea what this was like. 366 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:06,960 And you know, thank you for forgiving me a way to talk to my dad. 367 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:11,240 And that's just been, it's just been a remarkable thing. 368 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,560 Well, I'll just tell you one thing. 369 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:19,960 Last time I'd look about the Vietnam War was the number one bestseller. 370 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:24,000 You know what's going to happen two years from now? 371 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,760 It's going to be everywhere. 372 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:26,760 You think? 373 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:27,760 Oh, yeah. 374 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:32,440 Well, I think so, because you know, what's what's so interesting is like, especially 375 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:36,800 these millennials, they're they're like, I didn't know any of this happened. 376 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:37,800 Yeah. 377 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:38,800 Because this is yet another thing. 378 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,760 And it's not just a female thing. 379 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,040 This is a Vietnam War thing. 380 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:47,240 It just has been taboo to talk about, you know, for so long. 381 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,920 Well, you've written a remarkable book. 382 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,640 We thank you very much for being on dispatches today. 383 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:59,800 Thanks for the book and thanks for really illuminating the women who served, especially 384 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,240 as nurses in the Vietnam War. 385 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:03,240 Well, thank you, Mark. 386 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:04,240 Thank you. 387 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:05,840 Your service, of course. 388 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:07,400 And thanks for having me on. 389 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:08,400 You bet. 390 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:09,400 See you. 391 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:10,400 Bye-bye. 392 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:11,400 Bye-bye. 393 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:17,000 And with our theme of our nurses today, here's Mark talking with Diane Carlson Evans. 394 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:23,480 Our special guest today is Diane Carlson Evans, who is best known for conceiving of the idea 395 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:29,280 of a national memorial near the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington to honor American women 396 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:34,320 who served in the Vietnam War and for leading that effort to fruition after a long, hard 397 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,120 fought battle to do so. 398 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:42,520 Diane is a member of one of Vietnam Veterans of America's oldest chapters, Chapter 5 in 399 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,440 Eau Claire, Wisconsin, which she joined in 1983. 400 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:51,080 Since then, she has been an active, forceful, and extremely successful advocate for her 401 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,800 fellow Vietnam War veterans. 402 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:58,320 When she was still in nursing school, Diane signed up for a two-year hitch in the Army 403 00:29:58,320 --> 00:29:59,400 Nurse Corps. 404 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:06,360 After getting her degree, she went on active duty, arriving in Vietnam on July 31, 1968, 405 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,760 on the four nurses on a flight with 250 men. 406 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:14,400 She then underwent a life-changing year as a nurse in the operating and recovery rooms 407 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:21,640 of the Army's 36th evacuation hospital in Vung Tau and the 71st evac in Playa Coup. 408 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:27,800 That experience, along with a difficult readjustment after coming home, led to the idea of a memorial 409 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:33,640 at the Wall in Washington to honor the American women who served in the Vietnam War. 410 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:39,120 That effort came to fruition in 1993 with the dedication of the great Vietnam Women's 411 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:40,120 Memorial. 412 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:45,400 We'll be talking about that amazing accomplishment, as well as Diane's tour of duty in Vietnam 413 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:51,360 and what she faced coming home, as well as her brilliant 2020 memoir, Healing Wounds, 414 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:57,240 a Vietnam War combat nurse's 10-year fight to win women a place of honor. 415 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:03,160 And I wanted to say one more thing, and I'm very happy to tell you that Diane received 416 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:07,400 the Vietnam Veterans of America Lifetime Achievement Award last year at our National 417 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:11,120 Leadership Conference in Greenville, South Carolina. 418 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:17,720 She comes to us today from her home in the Midwest, so Diane, welcome to dispatches. 419 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:19,840 Well, thank you, Mark. 420 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,920 First, I want to thank VVA. 421 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:27,400 I want to thank you and VVA for having me on this interview. 422 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:34,880 I'm always thrilled to be with my VVA brother and sisters, who from 1983 really did help 423 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:42,440 to change my life and put it on a very positive track with the kind of support that I received 424 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:47,400 as a woman from day one in VVA. 425 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,720 And that always true in the other veterans organizations. 426 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:58,120 But I'm proud of VVA for the fact that women were very much a part of the founding and our 427 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,280 first woman president, Mary Stout. 428 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:05,800 So with that, I'm thanking you and happy to be here. 429 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:06,800 Great, yeah. 430 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:12,640 And Mary was the first woman president of any national Veterans Service Organization, 431 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,000 for those of you who don't know. 432 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:20,400 Also VVA was the first VSO to have a national women veterans committee, which I'd like people 433 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:21,840 to know, we're proud of that fact. 434 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:26,200 So well, Diane, let's go back to those ancient years. 435 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:32,640 And if you wouldn't mind telling us a little bit about growing up on a dairy farm in Minnesota, 436 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:37,240 and then your decision to go to nursing school and join the Army. 437 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:38,840 Thank you, Mark. 438 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:40,840 Good beginning. 439 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,360 But first, I have a correction. 440 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,600 People would consider Montana the Midwest. 441 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:46,600 Oh, okay. 442 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:54,080 I live in Montana, and it's definitely West, but I grew up in the Midwest, so Minnesota. 443 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:55,560 My dad was a dairy farmer. 444 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,360 My mom was a registered nurse. 445 00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:58,440 I had four brothers. 446 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,120 I had a sister. 447 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:05,240 My two older brothers, one got drafted, one joined the Army. 448 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:11,760 All my 4-H buddies and country school buddies that I'd had, and then high school buddies 449 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:16,720 around my hometown of Buffalo, Minnesota, small community, were getting drafted. 450 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:17,720 Why? 451 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:18,920 Because they were farm boys. 452 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,560 They weren't going to college. 453 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,600 They did not have deferments. 454 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,120 My 4-H buddy, Danny Boudine, was killed. 455 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:33,000 And it was just very much a part of the farm community worrying about their sons going 456 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:34,000 off to war. 457 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,480 Now, they didn't have to worry about their daughters, and they were grateful, except 458 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:45,800 for my dad, when I came home to tell my dad and mom that I had gone downtown Minneapolis. 459 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:51,120 I was going to school in Minneapolis, nursing school, that I wanted to go to Vietnam as 460 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:52,120 a nurse. 461 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:58,560 My brothers and 4-H buddies and all the men around me had to go, why shouldn't I as a 462 00:33:58,560 --> 00:33:59,560 nurse? 463 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:00,800 They must need nurses. 464 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,600 And she basically said, sign on the dotted line. 465 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,960 Well, my dad did not take it well, and he had come up from the milking. 466 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:13,240 It was late in the evening when mom wasn't at work at the hospital, and I broke the 467 00:34:13,240 --> 00:34:14,920 news to them. 468 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:22,720 And my dad pounded his fist on the kitchen table and walked out of the house and probably 469 00:34:22,720 --> 00:34:25,520 went down to the barn to be with his cows. 470 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,240 He was not happy. 471 00:34:27,240 --> 00:34:29,000 He couldn't even speak. 472 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:36,040 He was a stoic man and not real affectionate, but we all knew how much he loved us. 473 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:40,360 But mom, being a nurse, she understood. 474 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:45,800 And on the day I left after nine months at Fort Lee, Virginia, before I went to Vietnam 475 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:52,840 after basic training, got in the car, passed the barn, dad came out and his overalls. 476 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:59,720 It was a muggy, hot Minnesota day where the corn grows fast and needs lots of rain. 477 00:34:59,720 --> 00:35:03,480 It was about to rain, and dad said, I've got to get the hay in. 478 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,440 Well, a farm girl understands that. 479 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:10,920 So he didn't go to the airport with mom and me and my sister. 480 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,720 And he gave me a hug like he's never given me before. 481 00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:20,520 And he said, I have four sons, and I send my daughter off to war. 482 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:21,520 Wow. 483 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:27,920 I never forgot those words, Mark, because I was young and naive, and I never thought 484 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:33,760 about how this would affect my parents and a daughter going off to war and a father who 485 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,800 had lived through the World War II era. 486 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,240 And he was deeply worried. 487 00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:45,920 He was deeply concerned, as fathers and mothers would be, but I never forgot those words. 488 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:47,720 So now I'm off to Vietnam. 489 00:35:47,720 --> 00:35:53,320 When you got in country and you saw what your job was, what situation was there, how different 490 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,600 was it from what you thought it was going to be? 491 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:57,400 Could you elaborate on that a little bit? 492 00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:58,680 Yeah, I'd love to. 493 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,120 And I think that's a really good question, Mark. 494 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:05,520 And that is, of course, none of us knew what we were getting into. 495 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:06,520 What was Vietnam? 496 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,360 We knew it was across the Pacific Ocean. 497 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,400 That was about it. 498 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,400 And I don't even remember going to the library to read about Vietnam. 499 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:17,000 All I saw was six o'clock news, so I knew what it looked like. 500 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,640 So we didn't know what to expect. 501 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,960 And I had been warned by my roommate at Fort Lee, Virginia, who had just come back from 502 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,840 Vietnam as an operating room nurse at Coochee. 503 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:29,160 She was there for Tet. 504 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,200 And she warned me. 505 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,880 And she asked me how I liked working at Fort Lee. 506 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:36,880 And I said, it's great. 507 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,600 I'm learning what it's like to take care of Vietnam vets. 508 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,600 And it's preparing me for Vietnam. 509 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:48,560 And I never forget, she said, Diane, nothing prepares you for Vietnam. 510 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,840 And then she said her final words, don't get close to anybody over there. 511 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:54,560 They just die. 512 00:36:54,560 --> 00:37:00,480 I found out later when she told me her fiancee at the 25th Intangible Division where she 513 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,400 was serving at Coochee. 514 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,760 He was killed and brought into her hospital and to her ER. 515 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:08,000 She was working in the OR. 516 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,520 She came out, she saw him. 517 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,360 And that was her fiancee. 518 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,400 She escorted his body home. 519 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:15,680 So I was warned. 520 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,800 Now, remember, you don't know this, but in Minnesota, I had excellent training. 521 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:21,560 The hospital where I trained. 522 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:28,160 I went to the emergency room at Hennepin County General, which had all the stabbings and gunshot 523 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:29,920 wounds, and you name it, I saw it. 524 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:31,360 I saw trauma. 525 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,880 I saw trauma in the Buffalo Memorial Hospital with my mother. 526 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:34,880 I was working with her. 527 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:36,960 And she spared me nothing. 528 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:38,640 She took me to the emergency room. 529 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,680 She had me helping her deliver babies. 530 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:41,680 I saw drownings. 531 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,520 I saw tractor accidents. 532 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,280 I saw death, car accidents, train accidents. 533 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,600 There was a train track right across from the hospital. 534 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,960 But so I was honest, and a farm girl, I have gutted chickens. 535 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,160 I had watched calves be born. 536 00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,040 I watched dead cows that were killed with lightning strikes. 537 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,880 I watched my dad take out his pocket knife and shove it in one of the four bellies of 538 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:04,880 the dairy cows. 539 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,680 So it would get up and breathe and it was bloating. 540 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:18,560 Anyway, long story short, I was not afraid to see death or traumatized bodies. 541 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:26,040 But what I was not prepared for was traumatized bodies of 18, 19, 20, 21-year-old, all-ages, 542 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:31,760 young boys and men from warfare, and so many of them. 543 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:37,880 So that sense of horror, what these young men were enduring. 544 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,840 And I didn't see how they were wounded. 545 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,640 We nurses saw the results of the wounds. 546 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:46,680 We saw them all day long. 547 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,640 Our shifts were 12 or more hours. 548 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:53,080 And another little correction, I was not an operating room nurse. 549 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,200 I was a surgical nurse. 550 00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:00,200 And so that meant I was on a surgical unit, which was pre-op and post-op. 551 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:05,120 Six months at Vongtao and part of that on the Burr unit, I saw napalm and white phosphorus 552 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:06,120 injuries. 553 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,120 Nothing prepares you for that. 554 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:16,640 Nothing prepares you for the amount of pain you're witnessing and the inability to, um, 555 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:23,080 you know, help with the pain so that there was no such thing as pain-free. 556 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:24,760 The morphine waxed and waned. 557 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:26,760 There was the highs and the lows. 558 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:28,120 You know, in an hour, you felt great. 559 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,720 In two hours, you were begging for more. 560 00:39:30,720 --> 00:39:37,920 So it was learn as you go, starting lots of IVs, which I'd already learned to do, thankfully. 561 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,880 But also I'm caring for snake bites. 562 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,080 All different kinds of snakes in Vietnam for your listeners. 563 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,680 They will relate to that in Vongtao. 564 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,880 It was sea snakes and they were deadly and they were poisonous. 565 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:57,520 And water buffalo attacks and gorges attacking a soldier and ripping apart his body. 566 00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:58,520 I saw that. 567 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:06,600 I saw leeches, patients, men coming in with practically the lower half of their body, 568 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:11,000 miserably covered with leeches and the men took care of pulling those out. 569 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,280 But we nurses saw things. 570 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,360 We never saw at home. 571 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,600 So that to answer your question is the difference. 572 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:25,560 And then I went to Placo, 71st Evac after six months in country and I saw war on another 573 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:27,080 level. 574 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:31,800 Just a few kilometers from the Cambodian border, 4th Infantry Division was being hit 575 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,320 hard in the spring of 69. 576 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:36,760 We had mass casualties. 577 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:38,320 We called it a push. 578 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:39,880 They were coming in. 579 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,600 It was like a conveyor belt and they came. 580 00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:47,240 Those dust off choppers now are getting rocketed and mortar to top it off. 581 00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:51,800 Because they were trying to hit the radar which was placed right next to the hospital 582 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,480 and the air base which was on the other side of the hospital. 583 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,240 So they were trying to wipe out, we thought, the radar and the air base. 584 00:40:59,240 --> 00:41:01,680 But the Geneva Convention goes out the window. 585 00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:05,120 Those red crosses didn't mean anything to the enemy. 586 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:11,880 They were probably targeting us to the morale of the war, they're hitting hospitals. 587 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,000 So that was the difference. 588 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:22,120 And then the next difference was the feeling now on my second year here in Placo was knowing 589 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:27,480 what's happening back home and the non-support of the war. 590 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:32,560 And then really figuring out, it didn't take me long to figure out we were being lied to. 591 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:36,200 The lies from Washington were coming fast and furious. 592 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:40,560 And those of us in Vietnam, we knew what the truth of the war was because we were on the 593 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:42,920 ground and we saw the truth. 594 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:49,160 You know, from reading your terrific book, which I recommend to everybody by the way, 595 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:55,200 I know that your homecoming was not exactly smooth. 596 00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,880 Would you tell lightness a little bit about that? 597 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,680 What was it like for you when you got home? 598 00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:06,520 I'd like to mark because I don't think a lot of people don't realize, especially non-veterans, 599 00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:11,440 that women, now remember nurses were men and women and we honor all of them, the Vietnam 600 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,520 Women's Memorial honors nurses and all women. 601 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:20,760 We didn't do it to exclude male nurses, but the men are honored at the statue of the three 602 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,600 servicemen, that's their memorial. 603 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:27,320 Now when I'm talking about nurses, it's not to exclude men or forget about them, but we're 604 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,320 talking about female nurses. 605 00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:36,560 And so we came home, we took off our uniforms, we didn't look like vets, in no way. 606 00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:38,600 We could hide very easily. 607 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:43,440 We didn't have the haircut, we weren't wearing combat boots, most of us probably weren't, 608 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:48,720 like a lot of the guys were still wearing fragments, they were wearing their field jackets, whatever. 609 00:42:48,720 --> 00:42:54,440 They looked like vets or they were suspected to be vets and they went through hell. 610 00:42:54,440 --> 00:43:02,400 The hostility, the degrading words directed to, we were a bunch of drug crazed, glassy 611 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,240 eyed baby killers. 612 00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:09,400 Well I know a Navy nurse who told me when she got off the ship coming home, there was 613 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:15,480 a gang of anti-war protesters to meet them wherever it was in California, I forget. 614 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,520 She was in her white nurses uniform. 615 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:24,600 When she came down to get off, I don't know the exact physical location, she had glasses 616 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:32,640 on and once they got out the gate, this man pushed her down, pushed her. 617 00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:38,800 Her glasses went flying and called her, you're a fascist pig. 618 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,360 That's a female nurse in a white uniform. 619 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:46,920 Now what I was called was something like, I had to wrap my, it's like, what did he just 620 00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:48,000 say? 621 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:53,320 He told me I was no better over there as a nurse than those baby killers because I was 622 00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,280 just oiling the war machine. 623 00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,320 And I thought, wait a minute, what did he just say? 624 00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:02,440 And then he walked away, the coward. 625 00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,080 And I thought, what did he just say to me? 626 00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:11,480 I'm oily, oh okay, I'm saving these guys so they can go back and kill more babies and 627 00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,840 be the warmongers and things like that. 628 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:20,320 So then we know how we reacted to survive, we shut down and didn't talk about it. 629 00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:25,720 And if I opened my mouth that I was a vet, I was opening myself to hostility or like 630 00:44:25,720 --> 00:44:30,160 one guy said when he found out, he said, well, would you go there for the first place? 631 00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,680 Like to save lives, maybe? 632 00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,040 So it was painful. 633 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:44,480 It took 1982 for the dedication of the wall to finally help me open up and recognize and 634 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:50,560 feel the pride I'd never felt before when I looked at that wall of names and knew that 635 00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:53,480 those men there, we were there with them and that we mattered. 636 00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,800 Yeah, that was my next question actually, Diane. 637 00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:01,640 And because you write so movingly about that trip to the wall, a little bit, a little more 638 00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:05,200 detail and then talk about joining VVA. 639 00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:09,760 Yeah, because it transformed my life and it saved my life. 640 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:15,400 I was like other vets, I thought about it, but I had four kids and a husband, how could 641 00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:16,720 I leave them? 642 00:45:16,720 --> 00:45:25,600 But there were days that I just didn't, I didn't think I could do another day. 643 00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:30,720 But when I found out that there was this memorial that was going to have the names, I would 644 00:45:30,720 --> 00:45:33,880 have crawled over broken pot bottles to get there. 645 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:38,840 But I told my husband, I'm going, I have to go, but I'm sorry, I don't want you to go 646 00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:39,840 with me. 647 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:41,200 I went to Vietnam alone. 648 00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:42,440 I came home alone. 649 00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,640 I have to do this alone. 650 00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:51,520 I ended up going with some other vets who I'd met and they were going to go in a van and 651 00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:57,280 they invited me and I thought, well, I'll be safe with other vets and their spouses. 652 00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:03,440 But when I looked up at 68 and 69 and saw all those names, after five years of, well, 653 00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:10,000 I don't know how many years I came home in 69 and now it's 1982 added up, I never cried 654 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:11,720 once during those years. 655 00:46:11,720 --> 00:46:12,720 I couldn't cry. 656 00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:16,000 I had no tears left and tears would admit tears. 657 00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:20,080 I just, I had put it away so deeply in my conscience. 658 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:21,920 I didn't cry or anything. 659 00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:23,360 I never cried. 660 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:29,680 I stood there and I touched the two names I went to find and I stood there and I cried 661 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,680 and it changed my life. 662 00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:36,920 I, some vets came up to me and hugged me and I had my boony cap on and they said, were 663 00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,080 you a nurse in Vietnam? 664 00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:40,080 And I said, yes. 665 00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:46,840 And there's one vet, many vets, this one in particular hugged me and he said, thank you. 666 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:48,280 Thank you for being there for us. 667 00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:50,920 You were all we had. 668 00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,600 He turned around and left and I burst into tears. 669 00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:55,680 I had never been thanked. 670 00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:56,680 Never. 671 00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:58,960 His thank you was the first. 672 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:04,080 And then I realized, didn't take me long to realize the people who thanked us and loved 673 00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:10,400 us were the wounded and the men who came into our hospitals to see what we were doing to 674 00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:12,280 help them save their buddies. 675 00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:19,040 And, you know, they, they appreciated us, but there was never a place for them to tell 676 00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:22,800 us that where we could connect and come together. 677 00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:28,160 Well, I came home and I, these other vets I'd been with, they said, Diane, I mean, it 678 00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:31,000 was like an hour to get to Eau Claire from where I live. 679 00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:36,040 They said, you have to come and, and join this newer, you can help us found this new 680 00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:38,800 chapter and I said, what's BBA? 681 00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,080 And they said, well, you know, we're not happy. 682 00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:44,120 We're not accepted in the other VSOs. 683 00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:45,880 We're starting our own organization. 684 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,520 Well, I was all for that. 685 00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:53,360 And so I drove an hour to get to Eau Claire and I was one of the founding members and 686 00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,080 I couldn't believe how accepted I was. 687 00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:57,320 I didn't know what to expect. 688 00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:01,120 Are they going to sling epitets at me too? 689 00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:03,960 Or tell me I'm not a real vet? 690 00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:05,600 But no, they embraced me. 691 00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:09,960 They wanted me there and they wanted me to get involved, which I did. 692 00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:18,200 So VBA helped me get a, you know, a springboard to being an advocate for ourselves and, and 693 00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:20,120 other veterans. 694 00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:25,040 And then I met all these wonderful vets in Wisconsin. 695 00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,720 And when I decided that if there's going to be a statue to three men, there has to be 696 00:48:28,720 --> 00:48:30,920 one to women. 697 00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:38,160 And I came back to my chapter and I said, I, I have an idea, but I'm going to need help. 698 00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:43,040 And I think there should be a statue by the, by the wall, right by the statue of the three 699 00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:44,600 men. 700 00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:47,520 And they said, well, that's a great idea. 701 00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:51,160 And then of course the rest is all in the bookmark and, you know, I could talk for hours 702 00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:57,280 about all of this, but I've got my start in Wisconsin with VBA and I will always be grateful 703 00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,200 for that. 704 00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:02,200 Thank you, Mark for those great interviews with Kristen and Diane. 705 00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:08,800 For more of Mark's interviews, you can go to VBAVetron.org slash videos. 706 00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:13,360 In our final segment today, my partner, Jim Faustone talks with Jim Culper, who is on 707 00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:17,120 the advisory board of the national veterans business development council. 708 00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:18,120 Jim. 709 00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:19,120 Welcome. 710 00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:24,760 I am Jim Faustone and this is veterans radio spotlight on national veteran business development 711 00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:29,840 council, better known as nvbdc.org. 712 00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:36,040 Veterans radio has a partnership with NVBDC, which is the nation's leading third party 713 00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:40,480 authority for certification of veteran owned businesses of all sizes. 714 00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:44,760 It's a 501c3 nonprofit established in 2013. 715 00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:49,900 It addresses the growing need to identify and certify both service disabled and veteran 716 00:49:49,900 --> 00:49:56,560 owned businesses for commercial or corporate marketplaces, as well as government contracts. 717 00:49:56,560 --> 00:50:03,640 NVDC administers a rigorous certification process designed to withstand the scrutiny 718 00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:05,880 of those corporate entities. 719 00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:12,160 And we want to welcome today to veterans radio Jim Culper, who is on the advisory board for 720 00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:13,160 NVBDC. 721 00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:15,440 Jim, welcome to veterans radio. 722 00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:16,840 Thank you, Jim. 723 00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:19,400 I'm thrilled to be here on behalf of NVBDC. 724 00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:23,480 I'm happy to talk about anything that helps our nation's veterans. 725 00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:29,640 Well we appreciate that and you have a long and impressive history in the business world, 726 00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:33,240 a career that's 30 plus years of the making. 727 00:50:33,240 --> 00:50:37,200 The sales you've generated are in the billions. 728 00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:45,880 You are deep and wide in areas of commercial, defense, government, automotive areas. 729 00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:49,880 And actually nationwide, not only nationwide, internationally you have experience. 730 00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:53,520 And we're going to get to talk about it a little bit a little later. 731 00:50:53,520 --> 00:51:01,000 But where I want to start is how did you get involved with NVBDC on its advisory board? 732 00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:05,080 Well we always tease all great things that are invented in Detroit. 733 00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:08,000 And NVBDC is just another one of those. 734 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:16,040 So when I was the president of a local Detroit technical staffing company, we were veteran 735 00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:17,040 owned. 736 00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:24,720 And one of the things that all of the DOD contracts and the United States government 737 00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:30,480 is always looking for is how do you prove that you're a certified owned business? 738 00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:35,920 And rollback 10 years ago when NVBDC was launched, it was an extreme gray area. 739 00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:42,440 There was really no gold standard for how a company would be deemed certified. 740 00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:44,200 So I went looking for that. 741 00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:50,480 In the business we were running, we needed this credibility for our DOD clients to grow 742 00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:53,280 the business, to gain more DOD clients. 743 00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:55,840 And I came across Keith King in NVBDC. 744 00:51:55,840 --> 00:52:05,320 And Keith was year one into the process of getting NVBDC approved as the certification 745 00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:07,960 entity for veteran owned businesses. 746 00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:12,520 And I saw the value for our company and I saw the value for all the veterans across 747 00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:13,520 the nation. 748 00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,680 So I immediately said, how can I be involved? 749 00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:18,120 And can I volunteer my time? 750 00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:22,440 Can I volunteer my staff's time to help drive veteran business? 751 00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,480 And Keith was gracious enough to let me be involved. 752 00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:27,080 I did not serve. 753 00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:32,000 So my hat and heart is off to everyone who served, both active duty now and those that 754 00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:33,840 have served in the past. 755 00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:41,240 And I'm, as a technical staffing professional, I've employed thousands and thousands of veterans 756 00:52:41,240 --> 00:52:46,800 in both the public space, you know, convinced the automotive industry here in Detroit that 757 00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:50,840 veterans have a unique talent that they should hire and thankfully they have. 758 00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:53,960 And then obviously it goes hand in hand with DOD contracts. 759 00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:56,560 So I sought NVBDC out. 760 00:52:56,560 --> 00:53:02,160 I was looking for that gold standard to be able to go to my customers and say, we are 761 00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:03,160 veteran owned. 762 00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:05,280 We are certified veteran owned. 763 00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:07,040 And it has helped us win business. 764 00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:10,880 It has helped us maintain and retain business. 765 00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:16,360 And of course, the greatest gift is being able to employ veterans and seeing them do all 766 00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:20,520 the things that all of us do once we're employed and take care of our families. 767 00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:24,000 And of course pay taxes in this wonderful state of the United States. 768 00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:26,400 So short story, that's how I got there. 769 00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:27,400 And I'm thrilled. 770 00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:28,960 10 years later, I'm still involved. 771 00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:35,360 No, it's a great story and it gives you a unique perspective. 772 00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:37,400 You're been on both sides of it. 773 00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:43,080 You've been on the side of, hey, I got to get my company certified. 774 00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:47,280 And then what the value of that certification is. 775 00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:53,720 And now also being on the advisory board, being able to talk with NVBDC about how business 776 00:53:53,720 --> 00:53:56,640 owners think, how customers think. 777 00:53:56,640 --> 00:54:01,840 Tell us a little bit about the value you saw in and continue to see in certification. 778 00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:07,120 Well, it's kind of, I've got kind of three buckets here. 779 00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:15,520 So first off, thank you to all the corporations, 185 plus that send funding to NVBDC so we 780 00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:17,400 can keep doing what we're doing. 781 00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:19,680 And as you can imagine, those are the who's who of America. 782 00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:24,160 You can go to NVBDC.org and look at all the Corpse that sponsor us. 783 00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:26,320 So the Corpse see the value. 784 00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:28,720 The veterans to veterans see value. 785 00:54:28,720 --> 00:54:33,800 So when we have our national meeting in November, or we have a lot of matchmaker meetings throughout 786 00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:37,280 the year, veterans can come into the room and talk to other veterans. 787 00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:42,400 A small business that might be two or three people to a multi, to a billion dollar business. 788 00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:44,800 And the veterans can learn from one another. 789 00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:50,920 And then for me, as a guy running a business and always looking to recruit veterans to employ 790 00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:55,640 them, that networking is just invaluable. 791 00:54:55,640 --> 00:55:00,320 And I'll say to all the veteran owned businesses out there, stay with it. 792 00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:02,640 You'll get certified at NVBDC. 793 00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:04,760 It is the beginning, not the end. 794 00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:06,640 You have to work with corporations. 795 00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:11,760 It takes time to win business, whether it's in the veteran space or not in the veteran 796 00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:12,760 space. 797 00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:16,600 So once you get your NVBDC certification, stick with it. 798 00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:18,040 Renew it every year. 799 00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:19,440 Keep coming to the meetings. 800 00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:20,760 Keep networking. 801 00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:22,680 That's where the value is. 802 00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:27,120 And I don't know if anybody saw the Tom Brady Hall of Fame induction speech the other day. 803 00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:30,440 He talked about it's hard work. 804 00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:32,920 Success is hard work. 805 00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:36,120 And I can't emphasize that enough to these veteran owned businesses. 806 00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:38,760 Many are small and I recognize they're small. 807 00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:39,760 Stick with it. 808 00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:40,960 You will be successful. 809 00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:45,960 The nation is interested in honors veterans and wants to employ them. 810 00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:48,960 But it's hard work. 811 00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:58,080 Well that's a great capsule of what NVBDC can do for you if you stick with it and do 812 00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:04,080 the networking because they're there to help you do that kind of connection to corporations 813 00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:07,160 that want veteran owned businesses involved. 814 00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:09,480 Thank you all for listening to Veterans Radio. 815 00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:11,600 Let us know what you think about today's program. 816 00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:15,800 Please send us an email at info at veteransradio.org. 817 00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:20,240 And if you'd like to support Veterans Radio, go to our website veteransradio.org and click 818 00:56:20,240 --> 00:56:21,960 on the donate button. 819 00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:26,120 Until next time, this is Dale Thromary for all of us here at Veterans Radio. 820 00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:52,120 You are dismissed.