1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:17,900 Welcome to Veterans Radio. 2 00:00:17,900 --> 00:00:20,560 I am Jim Fausone. 3 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:22,880 I'm the officer of the deck today. 4 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:24,760 We've got some great programs for you. 5 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:27,760 I think you'll find very interesting. 6 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:34,640 We always want to remind you you can find more about Veterans Radio at its Facebook site 7 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,280 or at the web. 8 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:43,680 VeteransRadio.org is our new URL, VeteransRadio.org. 9 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:48,880 Where we're on the web 24-7, you can find a lot of our podcasts there as well. 10 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:55,520 We post new ones every Tuesday, so you can get a new story, a new interview, something 11 00:00:55,520 --> 00:01:00,120 you didn't know before by going to VeteransRadio.org. 12 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:04,600 And before we get started, we want to thank our sponsors. 13 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:13,860 First up, we want to thank National Veteran Business Development Council, NVBDC.org. 14 00:01:13,860 --> 00:01:19,520 It was established to certify both service disabled and veteran owned businesses. 15 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:26,080 You'll find out how they can help your business by going to NVBDC.org. 16 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:29,600 We want to thank Legal Help for Veterans. 17 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:35,120 Legal Help for Veterans fights for veterans disability rights all across the nation. 18 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:46,440 You can reach them at 800-693-4800 or on the web at LegalHelpForVeterans.com. 19 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:52,400 If you've been paying any attention at all really to the news, you've been hearing about 20 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:58,800 how drone warfare is changing, how the Ukrainians and the Russians are both using drones to 21 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:02,000 advance their military purposes. 22 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,880 Well this has come a long way in a short period of time. 23 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:09,560 We've done programs when drones first came out and the U.S. was the only one way at them. 24 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:18,000 They were deploying them for intelligence and then ultimately for offensive weaponry. 25 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:22,040 So we've got an expert on who's going to talk about the status of drone warfare, what 26 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,200 he calls drones 2.0. 27 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:26,200 Very interesting. 28 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,280 And then we're going to reach back into a little history at that time. 29 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:33,400 We should talk about the Montford Point Marines of America. 30 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:35,960 They have an association as an upcoming gala. 31 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:37,960 But let's get a little history going too. 32 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,080 So we're going to start with the modern and go back to the history. 33 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:42,560 I think you're going to enjoy it. 34 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:47,080 We want to welcome to Veterans Radio today James Padden Rogers. 35 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:49,640 I should say Dr. Rogers actually. 36 00:02:49,640 --> 00:02:55,640 He holds a Ph.D. on the history of the precision warfare from the University of Hull in the 37 00:02:55,640 --> 00:02:56,640 United Kingdom. 38 00:02:56,640 --> 00:03:01,480 He's been a fellow at Stanford University, Yale University, the University of Oxford. 39 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:06,560 He was a visiting scholar at the United States Air Force Air Command and Staff College. 40 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:14,240 And with all that expertise, we have him on today to talk about how drones, if you will, 41 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,040 have evolved in warfare. 42 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:22,000 And really we're seeing them applied here in Ukraine. 43 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:27,840 And James just reminded me or told me that don't forget there was something similar in 44 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:28,840 Vietnam. 45 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,240 James, welcome to Veterans Radio. 46 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:33,440 Thanks for having me. 47 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:34,920 Great to be here. 48 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:40,640 Well, as I say, you're an expert in sort of a unique area and you've recently issued a 49 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:47,280 new book called Precision, A History of American Warfare, being published by Manchester University 50 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,200 Press here in 2023. 51 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:56,320 But as you've looked at and been studying and watching what's been going on in Ukraine 52 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:03,600 with Russia drones and the Ukrainian drones, give us some insight of how you see this has 53 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:10,480 evolved for the use of this sort of unmanned vehicle platform. 54 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:17,600 I think that when it comes to specifically Russia's offensive war against Ukraine, we've 55 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:23,840 seen that Ukraine harness drones very early on as a way to try and hold Putin's forces 56 00:04:23,840 --> 00:04:30,280 back from taking the capital of Kiev in those very early days, early weeks of the war. 57 00:04:30,280 --> 00:04:33,880 We know that Turkey sent over their Bay Ractea TB2s. 58 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:38,880 These are medium altitude long endurance systems that you would be more familiar with. 59 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:44,880 Perhaps it's a bit like the U.S. Predators and Reapers that we know the U.S. used during 60 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:48,680 the global war on terror, although they're slightly different systems, but they fulfill 61 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:53,880 a similar role of being sent up into the air to conduct precision strikes against targets 62 00:04:53,880 --> 00:05:00,160 on the ground and also to provide that vital intelligence surveillance and target acquisition 63 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:04,080 for other systems that Ukraine possessed. 64 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:09,200 Now, that started to change very quickly as Russia brought in their own air defense systems 65 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,080 and their electronic jamming. 66 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:17,320 What you've seen ever since then really is this cat and mouse game, this offensive, defensive 67 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:23,240 game between Russia and Ukraine about who can innovate their drones faster and who can 68 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,440 break through each other's defenses. 69 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:31,920 One way that Ukraine has tried to keep up with their drone innovation is not only to 70 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:36,760 get supplies brought in from the international commercial market, so they brought up around 71 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:44,720 60 percent of the world's supply of DJI-reduced Mavic drones, different types of Mavic drones. 72 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:49,520 These are the smaller quadcopter systems, so far different to the much larger medium 73 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:57,120 endurance, but also to develop their own drone industry and to invest millions, if not billions, 74 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:03,560 into that to create tactical battlefield drones that help with their fight in the trenches 75 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,080 on the front line. 76 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:11,200 It seems like, you know, Beck, I think the last time I had somebody on talking about 77 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:15,040 drones was right at the start of their use in Afghanistan. 78 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:20,800 It was all intelligence gathering, but it's really changed since then, hasn't it? 79 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:27,920 I think when we look back to, especially the Obama administration, and that administration's 80 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:33,520 reliance on the use of drones, then we can characterize that period as what we call the 81 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:41,360 first drone age, the first nation, the United States, to really take on drones as a spearhead 82 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,240 of pushing their military force around the world. 83 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:48,960 Now, this was all part of Obama's promise to the American people that he would remove 84 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:55,240 them from the illegal war, as it was being called in Iraq, and win the good war in Afghanistan, 85 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:57,840 and sadly we know how that all turned out. 86 00:06:57,840 --> 00:07:01,520 But it was also part of reducing the cost to American military lives. 87 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:05,600 As at that point, when Obama was getting elected, you know, you had 60 percent of U.S. military 88 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:10,000 casualties occurring as a result of the improvised explosive device. 89 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:15,080 And so as the war and terrorists spread globally, you wanted to reduce the footprint of American 90 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,760 military personnel abroad, not increase it. 91 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:24,080 And so the drone became this panacea for the Obama administration to continue to hunt down, 92 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:29,280 to find terrorists, to provide intelligence on terrorist organizations, and to kill terrorists 93 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,440 when needed all around the world. 94 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:35,200 So that's Somalia, Yemen, there were strikes even in the Philippines. 95 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:39,320 We know, of course, about Afghanistan and Pakistan, and a number of other countries 96 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:40,320 where drones were deployed. 97 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:46,160 But this was a period where it was the United States, and core allies such as Great Britain 98 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:50,560 and France, who were provided high-tech U.S. systems. 99 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:55,400 Very few other nations were allowed to have these high-tech drones. 100 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,680 The world has changed dramatically since that time. 101 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,240 We live in a time now that I call the second drone age. 102 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:06,920 And here, and I've been working at this with the United Nations recently, it comes to the 103 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:13,520 conclusion that around 113 different nation states, at least 65 non-state actors now have 104 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:17,800 access to weaponized drones all around the world, but pretty much at the point where 105 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:22,200 we have the uncontrolled proliferation of military drone systems. 106 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:28,120 Now some of these have been deliberately proliferated by hostile nation states, such as Iran, who 107 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:33,480 provide groups to the so-called axis of resistance across the Middle East, a number of different 108 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:39,720 actors, including Houthi terrorists, who then use those drone systems to either recast them 109 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:44,480 and make their own local drone industry, and to tap into the global commercial market 110 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:49,080 of drones and different commercial systems to then make those drone designs work for 111 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:50,080 themselves. 112 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:56,920 Or they may simply use the Iranian design systems to do Iran's bidding for them. 113 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:02,000 And we've seen this with attacks in the Red Sea recently, with a major impact on international 114 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:03,000 shipping. 115 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:08,960 So we live in a dramatically different world, a world of proliferated drone threats, where 116 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:14,000 when I do my interviews with military personnel from the United States and from our allies, 117 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:18,920 we've reached a point where we've lost that tactical air superiority. 118 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:26,320 And we have, for the first time in maybe two generations now, this very potent, increasingly 119 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:33,600 lethal and powerful threat from the air against U.S. military lives and the lives of U.S. 120 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:34,600 allies. 121 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:39,120 And we saw that most tragically and most recently with the death of three U.S. military personnel 122 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:40,480 at Tower 22. 123 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:48,240 It is really amazing how, and to me at least, how quickly the world caught up on this. 124 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:53,840 And we're talking to Dr. James Padden Rogers, he's the executive director of the Cornell 125 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:58,720 Brooks Tech Policy Institute at Cornell University. 126 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:03,760 Is it because the hardware became so available around the world or the software became so 127 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:07,160 available, how did this explode so fast? 128 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,360 Yeah, it's a really good question. 129 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:17,680 I mean, I would say it's a combination of the innovations in commercial drone technologies. 130 00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:24,000 So let's pick up that point first, we of course know that these have been used on mask. 131 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:28,200 The think tank in the UK, the Royal United Service Institute says that Ukraine is losing 132 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:32,640 up to 10,000 of these commercial drones each month. 133 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:37,200 And it's these systems that have been designed by a number of different commercial drone 134 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:43,600 manufacturers to make it easy for even simpletons like me to get their drone license and to 135 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:45,600 use these to assist. 136 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:54,880 And for them to be used by real estate agents, wedding photographers, agriculture, all of 137 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,560 these different drone systems have been incredibly useful for different industries. 138 00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:03,600 The trouble is, is that those technologies are also dual use. 139 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:10,120 And when taken up by militaries or terrorist groups, they can be put to nefarious ends. 140 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:11,640 So let's think about ISIS. 141 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:17,640 ISIS will be first terrorist group to be able to link into this commercial drone market, 142 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:23,520 smuggling thousands of drones over the border, buying them up through shell companies around 143 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:24,520 the world. 144 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:30,080 I'm talking about shell companies in Britain, in Spain, in Sri Lanka and in Denmark actually, 145 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:35,680 and smuggling them over across the border so that they could work on their drones and 146 00:11:35,680 --> 00:11:40,880 create an effective ISIS drone force or an air force for ISIS. 147 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:48,120 And they would use these en masse against US and allied forces during Operation Inherent 148 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:49,120 Resolve. 149 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,320 I mean, when I was conducting my research back then, you know, there was as many as 150 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,440 83 drones in the sky within a 24-hour period. 151 00:11:55,440 --> 00:12:00,440 And it's been anything, it's only got worse since then because drone companies have made 152 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:02,400 their drones much more high-tech. 153 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:08,200 They can fly further, they can shift frequencies, they can carry heavier payloads. 154 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:12,560 And now these drones, of course, are being utilized by a number of different terrorist 155 00:12:12,560 --> 00:12:13,560 groups around the world. 156 00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:20,920 And let me have you expand on that because this idea that you can have an army of drones 157 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:26,840 up in the air at the same time, networked and operating in concert is sort of an amazing 158 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:28,160 thing to think about. 159 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:32,640 And if you're a military planner and you've got to defend against it, it's got to be quite 160 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:36,600 harrowing to think about these networked armies of drones. 161 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,920 And I think they've been used in the Ukraine-Russian conflict. 162 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:51,320 Yeah, so there is a kind of a technical definition of what we might call this network of drones 163 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:52,320 in the sky. 164 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,040 This would be a true drone swarm. 165 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,880 And any engineer that's listening or any computer scientist listening will know that 166 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:02,440 we're not quite there yet in terms of a true drone swarm. 167 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:08,160 This is, you know, think of a flock of birds in the sky, like a memorization of starlings 168 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:12,080 that are being attacked by an eagle, let's say. 169 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:17,880 They will work together, all that wants to move in synchronization to make sure they 170 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:22,360 keep together as that giant flock to increase their security. 171 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:28,520 They communicate with one another and they become almost one symbiotic life form in the 172 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:29,520 sky. 173 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:34,640 Now we would not reach the point where we have individual drones that have that sort of connectivity 174 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,040 and the ability to react to external stimuli. 175 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:42,640 We will do, and the US is investing very heavily in that, and that's deeply worrying as well 176 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:44,920 into the future because China's doing the same. 177 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:51,960 And so we will have drone-v drone swarms and likely thousands of drones in the sky above 178 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:52,960 zones of active conflict. 179 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:58,040 What we have at the moment is we have these more rudimentary drone swarms where drones 180 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:04,840 are sent in in their multiples, so these are multi-drone deployments, tens, maybe 20s max 181 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:10,880 at a target to saturate their enemy's air defense systems or to use up their enemy's air defense 182 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:16,080 systems so that when they then do send other systems in, maybe rockets or missiles, they 183 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,960 will have more chance of breaking through and hitting the target. 184 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:25,120 And so when I mentioned the fact that ISIS had these multiple drone systems in the sky, 185 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:31,160 we're looking at maybe 10 at a time, but 83 over that 24-hour period. 186 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:35,560 And as I say, it's all about trying to overwhelm air defenses. 187 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:37,280 Interesting. 188 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:43,520 I like this concept, your outline of sort of the first drone age, the second drone age. 189 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:48,640 You've clearly thought about what the third or the fourth drone age might look like. 190 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:56,120 Give us, from your expert viewpoint, Dr. Rogers, where does the next drone age take us? 191 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:05,120 Well, I've just written a piece on this called the third drone age, visions out to 2040. 192 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:09,880 I think that some of the things we're looking for here, and I should also recognize the 193 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:17,160 fact that we've just been funded by NATO SPS to work on this idea of full spectrum drone 194 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:18,160 warfare. 195 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:22,440 I think that some of the threats might occur from the use of drones, not only in the air, 196 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:29,720 but also on the ground at sea, under the surface of the water, and also underground. 197 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:34,880 And so we're looking at this multi-domain drone use, this full spectrum drone use. 198 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:39,320 And I think this is one of the things that's going to characterize the third drone age. 199 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:43,760 Now, let's couple that with the fact that it's not just going to be those systems being 200 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:45,680 controlled by human operators. 201 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:51,280 Instead, you're going to have the human on the loop of control or completely outside 202 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:52,840 the loop of control of these systems. 203 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:54,280 What do I mean by that? 204 00:15:54,280 --> 00:16:00,360 Well, I mean that you can have these drones operating autonomously, picking out targets, 205 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:05,560 and then sending that target data back to a human pilot or a human operator who might 206 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:10,720 be controlling, let's say, 10, 20, or 100 of these systems at different points around 207 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:12,440 the active zone of conflict. 208 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:17,960 And then that operator will decide whether or not the data is getting from the drone 209 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,240 is correct and can approve that strike. 210 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:25,200 Now the next level of that, the outside the loop of control, is the one that I think that 211 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,280 we're reaching very quickly. 212 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:32,440 And this is the one where the drone system, be it used at sea, under water, in the air, 213 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:40,520 on the ground, or indeed underground, is able to choose off a preset list of targets built 214 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:41,520 within its algorithm. 215 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:48,320 So it's able to identify certain targets and then choose to take that strike on the target 216 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,040 without the human being in the loop of control. 217 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:59,480 So we're delegating, we're moving, we're placing into the hands of machines, into the minds 218 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:04,320 of machines, that decision about whether or not another human lives or dies. 219 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:08,040 We're delegating death to robots and machines. 220 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:09,840 And this is the future of war. 221 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,080 This is what is going to define the third drone age. 222 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:13,800 Well, you're scaring the hell out of me. 223 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:18,280 So you know, that's why guys like you have to think about this. 224 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,400 So guys like me don't have to. 225 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:26,800 You keep referring to drones in the sea, on the ground, and underground. 226 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,280 And I'm only thinking about drones in the air. 227 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:35,120 What am I not thinking about in terms of drones in the sea, ground, and underground? 228 00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:43,040 Well, you think of the ability of the drone in the third dimension that is the sky, the 229 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:50,440 ability to move quite freely at different altitudes, to evade air defense systems, and to take 230 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:51,440 out targets. 231 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,520 So let's think about that in the third dimension. 232 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,160 That is the water, the sea, the ocean. 233 00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:03,680 And you start to see how they become harder to detect, harder to track, and can be autonomously 234 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:09,760 to monitor, gather intelligence, surveillance, and to take strikes on naval targets, or perhaps, 235 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:17,080 you know, low and behold, undersea pipelines or vital interconnected wires that connect 236 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,600 the internet around the world. 237 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:23,520 We have a lot of very sensitive infrastructure under the sea. 238 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:28,640 And it's those sort of systems that can be used to defend that infrastructure, but also 239 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:29,640 to attack it. 240 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,880 Now, on the surface of the water, this has become one of the latest major innovations 241 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:35,760 of the war in Ukraine. 242 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:42,400 And this is the use of drone boats to take out Russian military shipping. 243 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:47,880 And we've seen this happen, the sinking of these ships from these comparatively much, 244 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,400 much cheaper drone boat systems. 245 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,400 Now, that's just the maritime domain. 246 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,120 Let's talk about on the ground. 247 00:18:55,120 --> 00:19:01,000 We've seen the drones being introduced to Medevac, to be able to place people on these 248 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:05,720 drone structures that have tank tracks so they can just take them straight off the battlefield 249 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:07,280 as quickly as possible. 250 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:14,240 We're also looking at these remote controlled tank systems, which can be sent underneath 251 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:18,040 other tanks or sent under armored vehicles and explode underneath them. 252 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:22,880 That's something that's been around since the Cold War, if not actually the Second 253 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,680 World War, there might have been experimentation with those sort of remote control systems 254 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:28,160 in the First World War. 255 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,840 So that's not a new innovation, but it's something we're certainly seeing being put 256 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:32,960 to use. 257 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:37,120 And then underground, I only mentioned that because that's something we've seen with the 258 00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:41,720 war between Israel and Gaza, the war between Israel and Hamas. 259 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,760 What we've seen there is the use of Israeli drones to be sent underground. 260 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:51,760 These are drones that were designed initially for mining operations or perhaps for humanitarian 261 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:56,640 release operations to go and to survey those tunnels to make sure there's no hostiles 262 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:02,400 down there and to collect that surveillance and intelligence for Israeli forces. 263 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:07,640 So we really are seeing drones being used in every facet of war. 264 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:13,840 And this is why the British government today, the Defence Minister, has announced £4.5 265 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:14,840 billion. 266 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:22,200 So that's well over $5 billion investment in the innovation of drones for the Royal 267 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,200 Navy, the Royal Air Force and the British Army. 268 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:29,520 We'll see if that happens or if it's just an election pledge in an election year to 269 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:34,080 try and bring the country back, which I suspect it probably is. 270 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:38,920 But either way, the attention and the intent is there from a number of nations around the 271 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,040 world that the future of war is drone war. 272 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:46,800 I've got two more areas I want to cover before we run out of time, but I want to back up. 273 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,640 You mentioned you recently wrote on the third drone age. 274 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:52,600 Can you identify where that's at? 275 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,560 Because I think there's probably veteran radio listeners who are going, hey, Dr. Rogers 276 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:58,000 has really thought about this. 277 00:20:58,000 --> 00:20:59,800 I want to know more. 278 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:01,800 So where might we find such an article? 279 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:07,040 Well, I do mention it in the final chapters of my new book, Precision, A History of American 280 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:08,040 Warfare. 281 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:13,480 So you go to Manchester University Press and if you use the code Warfare30, you can get 282 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,480 30% off and that takes it down to about $20. 283 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:17,480 Fantastic. 284 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:21,360 You can also book online for the same price, it's about $20. 285 00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:27,480 But you can find that particular article for free online under the CITI Institute. 286 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:34,520 If you just, to be fair, if you just type in the third drone age into Google, I think 287 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,040 I might be the only person that's written on it so far. 288 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,160 You may have, I hope you coined it because it's going to stick. 289 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:47,080 Now the two other things I want to touch on is drone defense, right? 290 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:53,760 So you've just outlined an incredible new area of warfare, but there's always, you know, 291 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,320 everything's got a reaction to the action, right? 292 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,080 So how is drone defense developing? 293 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:07,400 Slowly, and at a pace that concerns me. 294 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:11,960 It's something that I've been warning about for a long time now, before I've been working 295 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,760 on drones now for well over 10 years. 296 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:20,440 And it was a warning sign that we put out because we were worried about ISIS, because 297 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:26,160 we were worried about the earlier Houthi attacks from 2018-2019 onwards. 298 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:32,240 And the key thing, and the key fact is, is that actually when it comes to the US, its 299 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:36,760 allies and Western militaries more broadly, there's just been a neglect of air defense 300 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:37,760 for two generations. 301 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:42,720 I mean, you look at the official statistics, officially the last member of the US military 302 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:47,920 that was killed by hostile enemy air power was in the Korean War in 1953. 303 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:52,960 And so when it comes to investing in air defense systems for such attacks, there isn't the 304 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,560 impetus to put the money into it because there really wasn't the threat. 305 00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:00,080 What we were warning about was that this threat is returning. 306 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:04,400 You look at the conflicts in which the US has been fighting, and it's usually, if not 307 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,720 completely, comprehensively had command of the air. 308 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:15,520 The only time if you want air defense is perhaps to, you know, pot-shot some rockets or maybe, 309 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,280 you know, most importantly, and where the money has been is to stop intercontinental 310 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:24,000 ballistic missiles to make sure you've got a really potent and powerful nuclear deterrence 311 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:29,440 capability and air defense to make sure you can stop any incoming nuclear attacks. 312 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:36,560 When it comes down to trying to target smaller systems and varied systems that are flown 313 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:42,320 in deliberately to evade foreign technologies of radar, so they're flown in low, they're 314 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:46,600 flown in slow, they have a smaller electronic signature. 315 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:51,720 All of this is deliberately designed to evade the latest technologies of high-tech radar. 316 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,360 When you've got an enemy that's clever enough to do that and can innovate in a low-tech 317 00:23:55,360 --> 00:24:01,000 way to get around your defenses, it still takes some time to catch up in terms of air 318 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,000 defense. 319 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:03,000 So that's what's happening right now. 320 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,320 And you can see some big-ticking items put into place, like, you know, high-intensity 321 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:08,320 lasers. 322 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:13,840 A lot of money's being invested in that to literally burn drones out of the sky and to 323 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:19,000 make sure you've got this endless amount of munitions, this capacity to take the drones 324 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:20,000 out. 325 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:25,440 But it comes down, really, to a layered defense system and to try and detect these drones 326 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,040 before they attack your ships, before they attack your sites. 327 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:33,520 And sadly, that's just something that didn't happen with the latest attacks on Tower 22. 328 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:39,680 What we think happened there was a Reaper drone, I think it was, a US Reaper drone that 329 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,480 was returning back to that base. 330 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:47,200 The hostile drone was sent to follow that in, perhaps mimic its signal, and then to reach 331 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:48,200 those air defenses. 332 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,600 So a lot still to be done in terms of air defense. 333 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:58,680 Well, one last area I'd like to touch on, and that is, there aren't a lot of ethics 334 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:04,960 in war, but are people out there, maybe it's the United Nations, maybe it's NATO, maybe 335 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:11,600 it's somebody else, is there an effort being put at to think about, okay, as these advances 336 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:17,360 occur, is there some set of ethics that ought to apply? 337 00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:22,760 I certainly think so, and this is something I've been working with the United Nations 338 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:27,160 Security Council and previously the United Nations Special Rector and Exhibition Summary 339 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,920 and Arbitrary Executions to try and develop such guidelines. 340 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:37,760 For me, some of the most concerning issues are how, as drones proliferating to a number 341 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:42,640 of states with perhaps not the best human rights record, those drones are being used 342 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,520 to target civilians. 343 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:53,240 In brutal civil wars, these nation states are finding it suspiciously difficult to differentiate 344 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:59,360 between certain ethnic groups that perhaps are involved in a broader civil war and those 345 00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:00,760 who are active combatants. 346 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:05,280 And I'd point any of your listeners out there to recent events that have been happening 347 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:11,720 in the DR Congo, in Burkina Faso and in Nigeria, deeply concerning attacks. 348 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,200 There are hundreds of civilian casualties. 349 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:21,200 And then when it comes down to the future of drone warfare, I'm sure that your listeners 350 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:30,320 will agree that the process of delegating that decision about whether or not a human 351 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:36,480 lives or dies to a machine is something that should never be allowed to happen. 352 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:41,320 And this is something that President Biden and President Xi say that they agree on, that 353 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,360 China and the US are working towards this. 354 00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:47,760 But then at the same time, they're both developing these systems as well. 355 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,800 And there's a lot of talks happening at the UN. 356 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:57,640 And one of the first resolutions to work on a resolution, so nothing solid, was passed 357 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,520 just at the turn of the New Year to try and work on these issues. 358 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:05,320 And I just hope that the policy can keep up with the technical developments. 359 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:10,560 Well, we really appreciate your expertise and spend some time today with veteran radio 360 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:17,360 listeners, Dr. James Padden Rogers, Executive Director of the Cornell Brooks Tech Policy 361 00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:20,240 Institute at Cornell University. 362 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:25,240 You've really run us around the whole world here on what's going on in drone technology 363 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:31,280 and as we move from the first to the second drone age and on to the third is pretty scary. 364 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:35,040 So we're glad guys like you are out there thinking about this and working with folks 365 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:40,320 such as United Nations Security Council to come up maybe with some appropriate protocols. 366 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:45,160 And we didn't even use the word artificial intelligence, but that's another whole scary 367 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:51,080 wrap of if these drones start making all their decisions with AI, as you say, with no human 368 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:52,080 involvement. 369 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:57,080 Boy, oh boy, we're really heading into uncharted waters. 370 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:58,080 Absolutely. 371 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,080 I couldn't agree more. 372 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,080 Yeah. 373 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,160 Thank you for having me on and thank you for your service. 374 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:04,160 You got it, James. 375 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:05,760 Thank you. 376 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:12,480 Always good to get a viewpoint from an expert and this drone technology and how it impacts 377 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,760 national security and warfare is just pretty astounding. 378 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:23,480 We've seen all kinds of different aspects of this. 379 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:28,360 We saw it when Israel was attacked with some 300 drones. 380 00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:31,040 At the moment, the defenses are pretty good. 381 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,480 They're not 98% of those out of the air. 382 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:40,480 But technology keeps advancing and as I said, we didn't really even talk about the more 383 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:48,120 scary aspect of it when you have artificial intelligence making the decision whether or 384 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,960 not to send a missile and have a strike. 385 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:56,480 So I hope that opened your eyes a little bit and made you think a little bit. 386 00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:01,920 What we want to do is come back after a couple of announcements from our sponsors and talk 387 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:09,040 about an upcoming national event that is occurring in the Metro Detroit area on behalf of the 388 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:14,880 Bonford Point Marines and you'll get a little history about who they are and why this is 389 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,000 worth commemorating. 390 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,240 Military veterans touch everyone's life. 391 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:24,520 I'm guessing right now you're thinking of a veteran, a close friend, relative, maybe 392 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:25,640 it's you. 393 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:30,400 Even the toughest of us sometimes need help but don't know where to turn for support. 394 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,960 You don't need special training to help a veteran in your life. 395 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,840 We can all help someone going through a difficult time. 396 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,200 Learn how you can be there for veterans. 397 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:44,720 VeteransCrisisLine.net VeteransCrisisLine.net A message from the U.S. Department of Veterans 398 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,840 Affairs. 399 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,680 If you have a VA claim denied by the Board of Veterans Appeals, contact Legal Help for 400 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,920 Veterans at 1-800-693-4800. 401 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,960 They're experts in handling cases before the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims. 402 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,960 Their number again, 1-800-693-4800. 403 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:09,880 We also want to thank the Vietnam Veterans of America National Organization for its support 404 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,280 of veterans radio over the years. 405 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:19,040 So now we're going to talk a little bit about the Montford Point Marines of America. 406 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:24,360 You know it's one of those stories that gets lost over time but it's so important and history 407 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,560 is slipping away. 408 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:35,040 A gentleman by the name of Butler Martin, he was 101 years old, died recently and is 409 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:42,280 thought to be maybe one of the last Montford Point Marines still alive in the country. 410 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:48,440 So we're going to talk to the Commodant Robert Middleton of the Montford Point Marines of 411 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:54,200 America which is an organization to keep this history alive and they have an upcoming event 412 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:55,440 he's going to talk about. 413 00:30:55,440 --> 00:31:01,080 So again, one of those slices of history you're only going to hear on Veterans Radio and that's 414 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,600 why your support is so important. 415 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:08,240 You can go to veteransradio.org and contribute there. 416 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:14,760 You can look us up on Facebook and find a way to send us a few dollars in that direction. 417 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,680 And certainly if you're a business owner and you think, hey, this is my audience, this 418 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:25,920 group of patriots and veterans is my audience, contact us. We'd be glad to set up something 419 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,160 special for you as a commercial sponsor. 420 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:35,120 We want to welcome to Veterans Radio today Robert B. Middleton II, the National Commodant 421 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,600 of the Montford Point Marines of America. 422 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,000 Robert, welcome to Veterans Radio. 423 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,640 Well, it's an honor and a privilege. 424 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,320 Thank you very much for having me. 425 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:50,880 Now this is an interesting group to talk about and it's got an upcoming military banquet 426 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,800 and awards ceremony on June 23rd of 2024. 427 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,320 It'll be held at Burton Manor in Lavonia, Michigan. 428 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,840 We're going to talk a little bit more about that. 429 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,320 But let's start with a little bit about you. 430 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:10,640 You spent five years in the Marine Corps and then went on to a quite incredible finance 431 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,440 and business consulting career. 432 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,640 Give us a thumbnail sketch of your background just so everybody can kind of go, oh man, 433 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,440 I can relate to that guy. 434 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,200 Oh, bless you, Robert. 435 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:23,200 Well, let's see. 436 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:31,320 It was in the United States Marine Corps, five years altogether, three years active, 437 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,320 two years in a National Guard. 438 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:37,600 I served during the Vietnam era. 439 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:47,320 I was, well, I served in the Republic of Vietnam, 68-69, where I conducted, I was with the 440 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,640 Fort Air Command. 441 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:55,880 I was in the fixed wing unit, Fort Air Command, where I coordinated fixed wing air strikes 442 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,240 on enemy targets near the DMZ. 443 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,880 And so I'm proud of that, that heritage and that background with the United States Marine 444 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:04,880 Corps. 445 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,200 And after that, I came back to the United States. 446 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:16,960 I attended the University of Michigan, I majored in political science, public policy and administration, 447 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:22,000 got a background in economics as well and business law. 448 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:29,160 I went on to form a successful consulting company with the background in finance and 449 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:30,360 financial services. 450 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:41,040 I was a consultant for over 25 years, specializing in marketing and management, provided financial 451 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:47,080 services and consulting services to both the private and the nonprofit sector, board of 452 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,800 directors, technical assistants as well. 453 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:52,600 And so here we are today. 454 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,480 I am now retired, well, Sima retired. 455 00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:04,760 I enjoy supporting Marines, especially veterans of all military services. 456 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:09,280 And that's what I've been doing for about 15 to 20 years now. 457 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:14,320 Well, if you want something, don't give it to a busy man and you're a busy man so things 458 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,560 get done. 459 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,200 But let's do a little history. 460 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:24,760 Who were the Monford Point Marines? 461 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:32,040 The Monford Point Marines were the nation's first African-Americans inducted into the Marine 462 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:36,880 Corps in 1942. 463 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:43,720 Before that time, there were no men of color in the ranks of the United States Marine Corps. 464 00:34:43,720 --> 00:34:53,600 And of course, upon being inducted, they, after Athe and I, in Washington, D.C., they 465 00:34:53,600 --> 00:35:00,960 were afforded for training to a camp called, a segregated camp called Camp Monford Point, 466 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:07,240 New River, North Carolina, Camp of June, North Carolina. 467 00:35:07,240 --> 00:35:11,920 And that's where the name comes from and why I want to bring out this history because folks 468 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,080 go, well, who are the Monford Point Marines? 469 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:16,080 Is that a city? 470 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:17,080 Where is that? 471 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:18,080 You know? 472 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:24,520 It's a camp that this first group of African-Americans sworn into the Marine Corps were sent off 473 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:32,520 to train down in, I guess, Jacksonville, North Carolina is where it's at. 474 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:37,800 And this all followed on the heels, if you will, of President Franklin D. Roosevelt's 475 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:42,360 executive order to desegregate the military. 476 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:48,960 It didn't quite work out very smoothly and certainly these Marines would have faced all 477 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:54,960 kinds of discrimination as they went south for their training and, but ultimately, prove 478 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,240 themselves up, didn't they? 479 00:35:57,240 --> 00:35:58,880 Absolutely. 480 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,480 That is absolutely correct, sir. 481 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:06,440 And they were segregated. 482 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:14,240 Although discrimination had been abolished by Franklin D. Roosevelt, segregation still 483 00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:15,240 remained. 484 00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:25,040 And of course, in a place, if you will, where segregation, bitter racism existed and was 485 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:29,800 very prevalent throughout their training on base as well as off base. 486 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:37,040 So no matter where they went, they were subject to bitter racism and racial segregation. 487 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:38,040 So yeah. 488 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:45,720 And I think it's, you know, this is particularly good that the association that you're the 489 00:36:45,720 --> 00:36:53,320 head of is keeping this history alive so that our young Marines and our young people can 490 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:59,080 appreciate that history and see where we've come to and where we need to go. 491 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:06,080 And I don't think we could imagine today a Marine Corps that didn't have the valiant 492 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,000 service of so many African Americans in it. 493 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,760 It's just unimaginable, isn't it? 494 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:12,760 Yeah. 495 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:13,760 Yeah. 496 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:14,760 Very much so. 497 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,320 Very much so. 498 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,760 It is different Marine Corps now. 499 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:27,520 As a matter of fact, the Marine Corps professors that the Monfort Point Marines, you know, 500 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:33,080 have established the Marine Corps and turned it into what it is today, you know, which 501 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:40,400 is an integrated oil, oil, green machine, you know, that picks on all ethnicities and 502 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:46,200 men of color and turns it into the most elite fighting force in the world. 503 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:51,640 Just to give our listeners some context here, and we're talking to the National Commandant 504 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:57,440 of the Monfort Point Marines of America, Robert Middleton, just to give you some context listeners, 505 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:04,840 between the seven-year period of 1942 to 1949, more than 20,000 men, this would be African 506 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,080 American men were trained at Monfort Point. 507 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:14,440 So it gives you some idea of the size of the impact that this initial cohort of men coming 508 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:21,160 forward to say, not only I want to serve, but I want to be a Marine, would have on today's 509 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,480 Marine Corps. 510 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:30,920 That was kind of recognized to the significance of it by the awarding of a Congressional Gold 511 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:35,560 Medal, which is a pretty big deal, Robert. 512 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:37,760 You want to talk about that a little bit? 513 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:39,760 Yes, of course. 514 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:44,520 In fact, I played an integral role in helping that come about. 515 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:52,200 I collaborated closely with the Marine Corps and the Pentagon to arrange for travel arrangements 516 00:38:52,200 --> 00:39:02,960 and lodging for those World War II Black Marines across the United States of America. 517 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:12,440 They were awarded the Congressional Gold Medal by President Barack Obama and the 112th United 518 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:16,560 States Congress in the year 2012. 519 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:25,440 At that time, there were approximately 450 of those men from all over the United States 520 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:32,120 who had come to Washington, D.C. to participate in that ceremony. 521 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:38,000 Some of them had even checked out of hospice in order to be present for that ceremony on 522 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,000 that hot summer day. 523 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:48,120 It is an amazing tribute to a community when it receives the Congressional Gold Medal, 524 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:57,600 obviously not lightly given out, often given out when there has been historically overlooking 525 00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:02,880 the service of various people and communities. 526 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:07,440 This goes to the whole Montford Point Marines. 527 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:16,720 Those who were awarded the medals, we've had Congressional Gold Medals issued to Nisei 528 00:40:16,720 --> 00:40:24,040 Japanese Americans who were in World War II who got overlooked in a lot of accommodations. 529 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,360 There have been other groups like that. 530 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:35,280 This must have been just an incredible day back in 2012 when this was awarded and all 531 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,720 your hard work paid off, Robert. 532 00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:44,320 Well, I would say teamwork as opposed to my hard work. 533 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:50,400 We certainly had the cooperation of the United States Marine Corps, various legislators in 534 00:40:50,400 --> 00:41:00,040 the United States Congress, including Miss Corrine Brown, John Boehner, Nancy Pelosi, 535 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,120 and numerous others. 536 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:11,440 So it was really a tremendous thing to see in a once in a lifetime situation, one of 537 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,800 those unique parts of history. 538 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:19,200 It was really an honor to be a part of. 539 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:20,200 Really something. 540 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:27,360 I'm going to read what is the sort of organizational mission for Montford Point Marine Association. 541 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:33,560 But after I'm done with that, I'm going to have you put some bones, flesh on these bones. 542 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:38,880 The Association supports educational assistance programs, veterans programs, community services 543 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:44,360 with an emphasis on improving the social conditions of the growing population of military veterans 544 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,640 who are disabled or senior citizens. 545 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:53,240 Almost every organization has a really good mission statement or vision statement. 546 00:41:53,240 --> 00:41:55,240 Put some flesh on the bones of that. 547 00:41:55,240 --> 00:42:00,280 Tell us what the Association's able to accomplish these days. 548 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:08,160 Well, number one is our mission is to preserve the historical legacy of America's first 549 00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,080 black United States Marines. 550 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:15,680 In fact, I wanted to add that since that time of receiving the Congressional Gold Medal, 551 00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:22,480 we continue not only to preserve their legacy, but also to seek and identify others who missed 552 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:29,560 the opportunity to receive that award and or their family members and to make the presentation 553 00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:32,120 posthumously. 554 00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:40,280 And as a result of that, we found a number of those Marines who had not, in fact, received 555 00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:41,280 those honors. 556 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:48,560 At our banquet, as a matter of fact, in June, we will be awarding six Congressional Gold 557 00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:53,840 Medals to designated family members of those first black United States Marines. 558 00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:55,920 So that will certainly be it all. 559 00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:02,080 Oh, that's incredible that you're still able to find family representatives to reach out 560 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:03,080 to. 561 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:08,520 And as I say, it's a big deal for the community, not just the individual who Marine or family, 562 00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:12,240 but it's really a community recognition. 563 00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:13,240 So good transition. 564 00:43:13,240 --> 00:43:19,920 Let's talk about it, the annual Heritage Military Banquet and Award Ceremony is coming 565 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,200 up on June 23rd. 566 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:27,160 It'll be held at Burden Manor in Livonia. 567 00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,920 You have a very interesting program. 568 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:35,560 Start with telling us, you just told us a little bit about the Congressional Gold Medals 569 00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:37,400 that will be handed out. 570 00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,400 But tell us what else is planned for that evening. 571 00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:49,160 Well, we will begin with our program. 572 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:55,440 We have a vocalist that will be singing the Star Spangled Banner for us. 573 00:43:55,440 --> 00:44:02,240 We will have a 21-Den Salute, a posting of colors and taps, award presentations of Congressional 574 00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:05,600 Gold Medal, the Centenary Award. 575 00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,960 We had one of our Mauset Point Marines is 101 years old. 576 00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:21,160 He is one of our remaining approximately 350 to 400 of those first black, original black 577 00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,520 Marines remaining in the United States. 578 00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,680 His name is Mr. Butler Mark. 579 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:28,680 Yes. 580 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:36,320 So he will be receiving a special Centenary Award and the Spirit of Detroit Award. 581 00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:47,520 So we have a young lady who was the first black transportation designer at the Ford Motor 582 00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:48,520 Company. 583 00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:55,000 And she, in fact, designed the 1994 Ford Mustang and Thunderbird. 584 00:44:55,000 --> 00:45:02,440 She will be receiving the Presidential Lifetime Achievement Gold Medal by a gentleman from 585 00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:06,880 California named Bill Montgomery who represents Hidden Pioneers. 586 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,960 He will be flying in here to make that award to her. 587 00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:16,200 And of course, our keynote speaker is Major General Cornel Wilson, United States Marine 588 00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:20,000 Corps retired former director of Manpower and Reserve Affairs. 589 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:21,000 Okay. 590 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:26,280 But anytime you get a two-star general to show up, it's a big deal. 591 00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,480 Tell us about General Wilson. 592 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:37,560 I met General Wilson, as a matter of fact, in 2012 following the presentation of the 593 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:38,960 Congressional Gold Medal. 594 00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:45,960 In fact, I met him and his son at the Martin Luther King Statute. 595 00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:50,240 And so we go all the way back to the year 2012. 596 00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:55,480 And we remain friends all these many years. 597 00:45:55,480 --> 00:46:03,880 And so Cornel Wilson is really an outstanding Marine at the top of his career and one of 598 00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:05,360 the best in his profession. 599 00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:10,840 And he's certainly a credit to the United States Marine Corps. 600 00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:12,320 And we honor him. 601 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:19,160 We're talking to National Commandant Robert Middleton of the Montford Point Marines of 602 00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,360 America and their upcoming gala on June 23rd. 603 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,600 Robert, before we run out of time here. 604 00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:25,600 Hello, folks. 605 00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:27,480 Hey, this sounds interesting. 606 00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:29,120 I should go to this. 607 00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:30,720 I should bring my uncle to this. 608 00:46:30,720 --> 00:46:33,040 I should bring my grandson to this. 609 00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:38,040 How do they find out more about the upcoming banquet and participate? 610 00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:39,040 Absolutely. 611 00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:46,000 They can go to our website at www.moffordpointmarinesamerica.org. 612 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:54,520 They can also contact me directly at 313, our headquarters number, 300. 613 00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,560 0165. 614 00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:04,400 And or email me at armiddleton underscore at hotmail.com. 615 00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:08,040 Well we think you'll have a great banquet here. 616 00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,960 It's clearly a wonderful program. 617 00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:18,920 It's keeping the history of these first Marines, African American Marines who went to Camp 618 00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:21,120 Montford Point alive. 619 00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:25,880 And I think that's important, as I said, for not only looking back but looking forward. 620 00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:32,760 Robert, thank you for some time here on Veterans Radio and for all that you're doing for future 621 00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:34,920 Marines as well. 622 00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:38,240 Well, thank you very much. 623 00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:42,560 We certainly think that we have a lot to offer. 624 00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:47,960 All ages, all branches of the United States military. 625 00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:54,400 And of course we look forward to this event on the 23rd of June and there also will be 626 00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:55,800 entertainment and dancing. 627 00:47:55,800 --> 00:48:01,320 We want to add that into the mix of the real, for those who not only like to come in here 628 00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:03,520 but also like a little activity as well. 629 00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:04,880 Yeah, and I skipped over. 630 00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,600 There's undoubtedly food and drink as well. 631 00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,000 I mean, it's a full banquet. 632 00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,640 Yes, yes, it will be. 633 00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:16,880 Well, again, thanks Robert for the time. 634 00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:18,040 You are very welcome. 635 00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:24,880 I'm very glad to have been a participant here. 636 00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,640 We have a little time so I'm going to give you a snippet of a podcast that we're doing 637 00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:36,040 with Literature of War Foundation and we're developing a relationship with them to exchange 638 00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,280 some programs together. 639 00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:42,720 Think of Literature of War Foundation as sort of a military book club for units. 640 00:48:42,720 --> 00:48:46,640 But here's a snippet of that conversation. 641 00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:54,640 So let's turn to this idea of the Literature of War Foundation that you started with an 642 00:48:54,640 --> 00:49:00,040 active duty Marine Lieutenant Colonel that you should talk about. 643 00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:01,320 But get us started. 644 00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,160 How did this happen? 645 00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:07,680 Teaching there and those experiences had a profound impact on him. 646 00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:12,840 He was working with these young cadets and they were talking about literature, specifically 647 00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:17,800 war literature and he started this Instagram account called Literature of War, War Lit of 648 00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:23,240 War for short and he was just posting quotes, little red square with quotes from some texts 649 00:49:23,240 --> 00:49:27,000 that had an impact on him and it took off. 650 00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:31,200 And that's where he pulled me in and he said, you know, he's still an active duty Marine 651 00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:34,360 so he had active duty Marine things to do and he's like, I can't be hanging out on 652 00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:37,720 Instagram all day so why don't you take this over. 653 00:49:37,720 --> 00:49:45,440 And it continued to grow and we ended up incorporating as a 501c3 non-profit through the IRS with 654 00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:48,080 the idea of how do we take this to the next level. 655 00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:53,480 How do we have immediate impacts on our active duty serving men and women and all the branches 656 00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:57,200 like what is the best way to do that through literature. 657 00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:58,960 We did some book drives. 658 00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:03,800 We've done a couple of little things like that but when we did our book drives we sent 659 00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:08,640 a lot of probably around 400 books out to various active duty units and it was great 660 00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:12,240 except we don't know what happened to the books after they were received. 661 00:50:12,240 --> 00:50:13,240 You know what I mean? 662 00:50:13,240 --> 00:50:17,080 Like we don't know if they're in a library somewhere or they shoved in a closet. 663 00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:18,080 We don't know. 664 00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:22,880 So we had to go back to the drawing board and we came up with a book club. 665 00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:28,760 Like a book club is you sitting down with your teammates, with the people in your platoon, 666 00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,240 with your friends and you're reading the same text together. 667 00:50:31,240 --> 00:50:35,040 Right, and this came about because a pretty motivated staff sergeant reached out to me 668 00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:39,600 and Marine Corps staff sergeant, part of an artillery battery and he said I want to do 669 00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,320 a specific book with my platoon. 670 00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:44,400 He wanted to do Matterhorn by Carl Barland. 671 00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:48,800 He's like can you send me just this book instead of like a whole bunch of random books. 672 00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:53,200 And at first I was like, ah, it's not really the way we work but the more I thought about 673 00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:54,800 it I was like that's actually a really good idea. 674 00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:58,120 So I said how about this, we'll get you 25 copies, we'll get you some notebooks, we'll 675 00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:01,720 get you some merchandise with our logo on it and everything. 676 00:51:01,720 --> 00:51:04,280 You guys do the book club on your own and then we'll meet up with you and we'll talk 677 00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,040 about what the experience was like. 678 00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:11,040 And that created our platoon book club initiative which has been going for four or five months 679 00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:13,480 now and doing pretty cool things within the community. 680 00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:18,240 Well, it's a really interesting idea because it's a military book club, right? 681 00:51:18,240 --> 00:51:23,840 It's a platoon, you're operating it here at the platoon level but it could be shipboard, 682 00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:25,440 it could be a department. 683 00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:32,320 Now we all probably have heard about these three and four star generals and animals who 684 00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:37,480 have a list of books they recommend you read. 685 00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,400 How is what you're doing different than that? 686 00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,880 Right, that's a great question. 687 00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:45,960 Those lists are essential, right? 688 00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:50,320 Those started coming about in the last couple of decades and they definitely serve a need. 689 00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:54,400 Where we see that we separate ourselves is we're coming at it sort of from outside the 690 00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:55,840 community a little bit. 691 00:51:55,840 --> 00:52:01,640 I'm out of the Marine Corps, I've got maybe a different perspective. 692 00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:04,280 I'm coming from more of an enlisted background, right? 693 00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:09,640 Like a lot of those, the Commodance Reading List, it's coming from a more top to bottom. 694 00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:14,120 I like to see this as stuff that maybe these guys wouldn't have been exposed to if they 695 00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:16,960 hadn't partaken in this program. 696 00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:20,160 It's literally, they might not have ever even considered reading if they hadn't gone through 697 00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:21,160 this program. 698 00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:25,520 We try and meet the needs of the unit, we also ask like what do you want to read? 699 00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:29,560 We will take that suggestion as long as it has literary merit and we think they have 700 00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:30,800 a reason for wanting to read it. 701 00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:35,880 It's not just some random book but something that can help them bond as a platoon. 702 00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:38,320 We're okay with that. 703 00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:43,720 We also have a curated list and these are authors that have either done some work recently 704 00:52:43,720 --> 00:52:48,520 or ancient classics that we think are of value to the community. 705 00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:52,320 In that way, we're looking to support, like tell us what you need as well as like here's 706 00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:55,920 a curated list if you're looking for something to choose from. 707 00:52:55,920 --> 00:53:00,520 It really sounds a little less stuffy to me if you will. 708 00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:02,080 Those are your words, not mine. 709 00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:04,600 Okay, you don't want to get in trouble with the generals. 710 00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:05,600 I get it. 711 00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:07,720 I don't care. 712 00:53:07,720 --> 00:53:13,680 But as you say, you're coming to meet the unit, the platoon, the department where it's 713 00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:15,400 at. 714 00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:20,880 I think they're interested in reading so it's kind of ground up rather than top down, 715 00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:21,880 isn't it? 716 00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:23,380 Yes, exactly. 717 00:53:23,380 --> 00:53:28,360 The idea here is it's not just explicitly military fiction all the time or military 718 00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:32,320 poems or it can be about stuff that at first glance you might think like I don't see how 719 00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,560 this relates to the military or my experience in the military. 720 00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:38,960 But then once you, if you sit there and you read it, you're going to start to see that 721 00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:44,680 like these experiences that we're listing there are not exactly, they're not too far 722 00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:46,080 removed than what you're going through. 723 00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:47,480 Maybe it's a different time period. 724 00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:51,360 Maybe it's not exactly a war, but there's something you can get out of there that you 725 00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:54,560 can relate to your own experience in serving in the military. 726 00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:57,240 Well the word literature is going to scare some folks off. 727 00:53:57,240 --> 00:54:01,000 They're going to go, I'm not reading the classics. 728 00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:05,000 I'm not reading the Greek and Roman classics here. 729 00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:11,480 So help us understand what you're talking about in terms of books that have literary 730 00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:12,480 merit. 731 00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:15,600 But give us some examples of what's on your curated list. 732 00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:17,000 Yeah, of course. 733 00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:22,720 We've got, for instance, we just did our first actual debrief session where once the platoon 734 00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:26,600 reads their book, right, they get a chance to sit with us on Zoom because keep in mind 735 00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:28,480 these units, they're coming and going. 736 00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:30,360 Some of them are halfway across the world. 737 00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:32,760 So we sit down on Zoom and we say like what do you think of the book? 738 00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:34,360 How was the experience? 739 00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:36,040 What did you learn from bonding? 740 00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:40,480 And like we just did our first one with Gates of Fire by Stephen Pressfield, which is a 741 00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:44,960 novel that came out a couple decades ago and it's about the Spartan 300, right? 742 00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:50,400 It's about the famous battle where they faced off against insurmountable odds. 743 00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:55,280 They were completely outnumbered and they held against them for a prolonged period of time. 744 00:54:55,280 --> 00:55:01,960 Now these were probably 1920, 21-year-old infantry Marines in Okinawa and they were 745 00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:03,880 looking at this and it was interesting. 746 00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:05,320 The group was all divided, right? 747 00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:07,480 Some of them were like this was amazing. 748 00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:08,760 There's a lot of action in it, right? 749 00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:10,680 There's a lot of combat, ancient combat. 750 00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:14,800 While like the other half of the room was like this has no bearing on anything I'm doing 751 00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:18,760 here like I'm serving in the 21st century Marine Corps. 752 00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:25,360 An interesting discussion with the co-founders of Literature of War Foundation. 753 00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:28,480 If you want to hear more of it, check it out on our podcast. 754 00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:32,720 We post every Tuesday at 11 a.m. Eastern time. 755 00:55:32,720 --> 00:55:37,480 This one we posted back in late May so you can find it there. 756 00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:39,400 But that's what we do here on Veterans Radio. 757 00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:41,240 We bring you interesting stories. 758 00:55:41,240 --> 00:55:42,840 You're not going to hear anywhere else. 759 00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:46,440 Maybe something you want to dig a little deeper on. 760 00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:52,600 We get to update you on some history like Monfort Point Marines. 761 00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:57,560 But we also talk about the future like in drone technology and certainly what's happening 762 00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:00,280 with the troops today in a military book club. 763 00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:03,840 So we're really happy to be able to bring you this kind of information. 764 00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:07,640 I'm Jim Fossone, one of the Veteran Radio hosts. 765 00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:10,080 Dale Throneberry will be back next week. 766 00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:14,120 And you can always check us out as I say on Facebook or veteransradio.org. 767 00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:18,960 You should also thank our sponsors when you get an opportunity. 768 00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:25,400 NVBDC, the National Vietnam Veterans of America, the Vietnam Veterans of America, Charles S. 769 00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:31,960 Kettles, Chapter 310 in Ann Arbor, the VFW, Grafft O'Hara Post 423 in Ann Arbor and the 770 00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:35,840 American Legion Post 46 in Ann Arbor. 771 00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:37,340 So help us out. 772 00:56:37,340 --> 00:56:39,040 Keep this mission going. 773 00:56:39,040 --> 00:57:04,840 And until next week, you are dismissed.