1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,640 All across America and around the world, this is Veterans Radio. 2 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:15,920 This is Veterans Radio. 3 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:17,840 Welcome to Veterans Radio. 4 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,520 I am Jim Fausone. 5 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:22,840 I'm the officer of the deck today. 6 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:24,720 We've got some great programs for you. 7 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,720 I think you'll find very interesting. 8 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:34,600 We always want to remind you you can find more about Veterans Radio at its Facebook site 9 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,240 or at the web. 10 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:43,080 VeteransRadio.org is our new URL, VeteransRadio.org. 11 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:48,480 Where we're on the web 24-7, you can find a lot of our podcasts there as well. 12 00:00:48,480 --> 00:00:55,040 We post new ones every Tuesday, so you can get a new story, a new interview, 13 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:59,920 something you didn't know before by going to VeteransRadio.org. 14 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:04,200 And before we get started, we want to thank our sponsors. 15 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:13,640 First up, we want to thank National Veteran Business Development Council, NVBDC.org. 16 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:19,320 It was established to certify both service disabled and veteran-owned businesses. 17 00:01:19,320 --> 00:01:25,880 You'll find out how they can help your business by going to NVBDC.org. 18 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,320 We want to thank Legal Help for Veterans. 19 00:01:29,320 --> 00:01:34,960 Legal Help for Veterans fights for veterans disability rights all across the nation. 20 00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:46,400 You can reach them at 800-693-4800 or on the web at LegalHelpForVeterans.com. 21 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:52,880 Well, happy Mother's Day to all the mothers out there, certainly whether you are a veteran 22 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:57,680 or just simply a friend of a veteran, or maybe your kids are currently in the military 23 00:01:57,680 --> 00:01:59,640 or have been in the military. 24 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:03,640 Thank you for your support for all that you do as your mom's chefs. 25 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,960 Never done it, never easy, so we certainly appreciate that. 26 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:08,520 I want to recognize that. 27 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,440 And so today we're going to have a special interview. 28 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,920 We're going to talk about Shannon Kent. 29 00:02:14,920 --> 00:02:23,720 She was an incredible patriot, fierce warrior, a Navy cryptologist, ultimately gave her 30 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:29,760 life overseas assignment in Syria. 31 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:31,640 But she herself was a mother. 32 00:02:31,640 --> 00:02:33,840 We're going to talk to her husband. 33 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:39,160 And you're going to find this a great story, inspirational story in a new book out called 34 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:48,720 Send Me, which is taken from Isaiah 6-8 where it's asked, whom shall I send? 35 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,120 And Shannon Kent answered that call. 36 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:57,000 I've got to say my sound quality on this interview makes me sound like I'm deep in the tunnel, 37 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:00,160 but I wasn't. 38 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:05,160 But the sound quality is excellent as to both of our interviewees. 39 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:11,320 So I think you'll enjoy this, even if the sound quality sounds more baritone than normal. 40 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:16,080 We want to welcome to Veterans Radio today two veterans themselves. 41 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:21,440 We're going to talk about a book that's coming out here in May of 2024 called Send Me, the 42 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:23,360 true story of a mother at war. 43 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:29,280 We were fortunate to talk to her husband, Joe Kent. 44 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,800 Joe, welcome to Veterans Radio. 45 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:32,800 Thanks so much for having me. 46 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:33,800 Great to be here. 47 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:40,800 And Marty Soklavend, Jr., who is the editor-in-chief of Task and Purpose, and probably the guy 48 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:45,560 who put pen to paper here is a former Army Ranger, which surprises me he could put pen 49 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:52,040 to paper, but maybe it's all that time he was a experienced conflict reporter and working 50 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:53,280 at Task and Purpose. 51 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,600 Marty, welcome to Veterans Radio. 52 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:56,720 Thanks for having me on. 53 00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:01,240 And I'll jump right up and say, I'll give Joe a lot of credit here. 54 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,320 He put a lot of pen to paper as well to make this book what it was. 55 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:11,360 So, you mean a guy who spent 20 years as an Army Ranger in a green parade, has editorial 56 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:12,360 and writing skills? 57 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,360 Way to go, Joe. 58 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:20,120 Lots of repetition there when I was working on the intel side, but that was definitely 59 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,800 a challenging skill for me to learn while I was in the military. 60 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:27,320 Normally when I'm talking to the Marine writers, they always start, well, my first draft was 61 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:28,320 with crayons. 62 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,400 So, you get a little bit of that. 63 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:39,680 So, this is an amazing story of an amazing woman, Shannon Kent, who grew up in New York. 64 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,120 Her dad was a state trooper. 65 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,240 Her mom was a teacher. 66 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:50,480 Early on she demonstrated linguistic abilities. 67 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:56,160 Tell me a little bit about the early years and why Shannon decided, hey, I'm going to 68 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,160 join the Navy. 69 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,320 So, 9-11 was the big catalyst. 70 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,520 She had thought about joining the military before. 71 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:09,160 She was very interested in the world beyond her small town in New York state. 72 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,520 She wanted to eventually join the Foreign Service and the State Department. 73 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:13,520 Something along those lines. 74 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:15,640 She taught herself French and Spanish as a kid. 75 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,640 So, she knew that she could learn languages. 76 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:24,800 But then after 9-11, like you said, her father and her uncle also was a New York City firefighter. 77 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,280 So, they were both ground zero first responders. 78 00:05:27,280 --> 00:05:31,880 So, once 9-11 happened, Shannon knew exactly what she needed to do and she felt called 79 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:32,880 the serve. 80 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,560 So, she found the first recruiter who would listen to her and that was actually a Navy 81 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:37,560 recruiter. 82 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,720 So, she went to all the different services and said, hey, I can learn Arabic. 83 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,600 The tower has just gotten knocked down by people from the Middle East. 84 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:45,120 I can learn that language. 85 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,000 I guess the Army and the Marines gave her the run around and said, hey, you scored really 86 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:49,000 high. 87 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:50,000 We want to teach you Russian or Chinese. 88 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,480 And the Navy was the first one who said, like, you want to learn Arabic? 89 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:54,480 Okay, sure. 90 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:56,000 Yeah, sign right here, young lady. 91 00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:00,240 Well, a lot of these stories, you get recruited just sort of that way. 92 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,960 It wasn't maybe exactly what you were thinking. 93 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:04,680 Her brother was a Marine, I believe. 94 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:09,320 So, her and her brother actually right after 9-11, her brother's about a year younger than 95 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:10,320 her. 96 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:12,560 They both went and found recruiters. 97 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:16,060 And Mike knew that he wanted to be a Marine because the Marines have probably the best 98 00:06:16,060 --> 00:06:18,160 recruiting propaganda out there. 99 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:19,840 So, Mike had his mind made up. 100 00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:22,160 He joined the Marines and Shannon settled on the Navy. 101 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:27,080 But they actually both, because of their father and their uncle, went out and sought out recruiters 102 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,160 right after 9-11, like so many warriors of our generation. 103 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,640 Joe, you went into the Army. 104 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:34,840 Ultimately, you became a Green Beret. 105 00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:40,680 You've also done a number of other classified special app units. 106 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,280 What compelled you to join? 107 00:06:43,280 --> 00:06:45,280 You know, I was in before 9-11. 108 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:49,280 So really, I like to say it was a combination of the A-Team and G.I. Joe growing up. 109 00:06:49,280 --> 00:06:54,880 I don't know, as far back as I can remember, I wanted to be a commando of some sort and 110 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:56,240 read every single Vietnam book. 111 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:57,240 I could get my hands on. 112 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,920 Eventually decided I wanted to be a Green Beret because they always seemed like they were 113 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:05,360 involved in conflicts and adventures, even if America wasn't necessarily at war. 114 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:09,840 So I was already fully committed by the time 9-11 happened and that just really, you know, 115 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,760 heightened my resolve to stay in and to continue to fight. 116 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:19,160 Larry Philiston, why did you join up as an ultimate Marine Ranger? 117 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:21,880 You know, I did come in after 9-11. 118 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:27,720 I was a freshman or sophomore in high school when that happened and certainly that solidified 119 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:32,400 the idea that I was going to go directly into the military after I graduated high school. 120 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:38,200 But similar to Joe, I grew up reading those Vietnam memoirs and, you know, almost every 121 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,360 male in my family had served in the military. 122 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:43,520 So I grew up around those people. 123 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:48,720 Even in high school, one of my uncles who's an Air Force, he was like an OIF one guy. 124 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:54,840 So I still remember sitting on the phone in the kitchen talking to him overseas in Iraq. 125 00:07:54,840 --> 00:08:00,080 And it just, the entire, I think my entire world just kind of pushed me in that direction 126 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:04,680 and there was never really any idea other than I'm going to go join the Army. 127 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:09,200 And I think it was a, specifically wanted to be a Ranger because of a combination of 128 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:14,280 seeing Black Hawk down and then reading the news reports about Tucker Garr. 129 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:19,640 I wrote a high school report on Roberts Ridge or the Battle of Tucker Garr and that really, 130 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,640 I think between that and Black Hawk down really solidified the idea of like, I don't want 131 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:23,640 to just join the Army. 132 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:28,520 I want to be an Army Ranger and, you know, go, they seem to be where the fight is. 133 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:30,040 And I wasn't wrong. 134 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:37,680 Well, veteran radio listeners, so we're talking to two real committed patriotic men here. 135 00:08:37,680 --> 00:08:44,200 But the real emphasis on this discussion is an incredible one, Chan Kent, who joined 136 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:50,800 the Navy and had this incredible career as a linguist and cryptologist. 137 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:55,960 Joe explained to the regular folk out there what a Navy cryptologist does. 138 00:08:55,960 --> 00:09:01,040 Yeah, it's a really long way to say that she steals enemy signals. 139 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:05,160 So basically if it comes out of a cell phone, it comes out of a computer or radio transmission, 140 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,920 she was trained to attack into it, to steal it, to decode it. 141 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,960 But then a big issue with that is that usually it's in a foreign language. 142 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:17,640 And so you'll get cryptologists that have the ability to do all the stuff with the ones 143 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:19,880 in the zeros and actually steal the signal. 144 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:23,680 But then you get people like Shannon who are dual trained to not only steal the signal, 145 00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:28,040 but then if it comes through in Arabic and multiple dialects of Arabic, that she can 146 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:31,920 then translate it into actual intelligence. 147 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,800 She went and this is typical in the military, right? 148 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:41,440 The defense, the DOD has a looping, whistics, classes that they put you through. 149 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,160 But these were the things that she amazingly excelled at. 150 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:52,920 Talk to us about some of that training and commitment to really go in depth as an Arabic 151 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:53,920 speaker. 152 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:58,000 Yes, she went to the Defense Language Institute out at Monterey, California. 153 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:02,480 And it's interesting, you always hear about the training that Rangers go through and Green 154 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:07,040 Braes go through, but you don't really hear about things like DLI because it just doesn't 155 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:08,880 make for a really cool video. 156 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,560 However, it's some of the most challenging training that I think people in the military 157 00:10:12,560 --> 00:10:14,120 can undergo. 158 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:18,680 It's 18 months of intensive language instruction where they take people from all over the United 159 00:10:18,680 --> 00:10:23,480 States of America who might not ever heard one word of a foreign language before and 160 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:27,240 they take them and they make them not just proficient, but they make them fluent in reading, 161 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,160 writing and speaking in about 18 months. 162 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,840 And so that was, I think, Shannon's kind of dream job. 163 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,080 So she got to be very deeply immersed in Arabic. 164 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:40,240 But as most people know, Arabic is a very complicated language. 165 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,800 There's modern standard Arabic, but then there's different dialects. 166 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,560 And Shannon really found a niche in the different dialects. 167 00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:51,600 When she finally got over to Iraq, she got pretty obsessed with how Iraqis actually talked 168 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,960 versus modern standard Arabic that she had learned in Monterey. 169 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:56,960 And she had that ear. 170 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:58,800 It's the same ear, I think, that musicians have. 171 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:00,200 She was also musically inclined. 172 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,040 I think Green Braes, we have to learn language as well. 173 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:04,880 We don't need to learn it quite to that level. 174 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:08,240 And one time when I was studying Arabic, I asked Shannon, like, what's the secret? 175 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:09,960 How are you so good at this? 176 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:14,280 And with a straight face, she said, well, you just listen to someone, a native speaker, 177 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:18,480 say the word, and then you remember it and then you say it exactly like they said it. 178 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:22,560 I was like, OK, our brains are not exactly wired the same way. 179 00:11:22,560 --> 00:11:25,200 That's not how mortal men learn language. 180 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:29,120 Yeah, you learn how to order a beer and a few other things. 181 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:36,320 She is actually, it was incredible in reading the book, Send Me, that is coming out here 182 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:43,640 in May of 2024, the focus that she had and her ability to pick up different dialects. 183 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,600 And this isn't a sit at home job, is it? 184 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:51,400 This isn't in a nice comfy office in D.C. or in Monterey, California. 185 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:56,920 Tell us about her overseas assignment and multiple deployments, Joe. 186 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:58,080 So it's interesting. 187 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:02,800 You know, she initially volunteered right out of language school to go over to Iraq. 188 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:04,920 I'm what the Navy calls an individual augmentation. 189 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:09,760 So her, she wasn't part of a unit that all deployed together, like Marty and I deployed. 190 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:13,480 She deployed as an individual and she basically could have gotten put anywhere, but she ends 191 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,520 up at the Special Operations Task Force and they essentially say, hey, your job is to 192 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,680 help us intercept enemy communications and then to translate them. 193 00:12:20,680 --> 00:12:25,200 However, at the time, there was a high demand for people to go out and actually interact 194 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,160 with Iraqis on the ground. 195 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:29,440 And that was not what a lot of people wanted to do. 196 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:33,800 They wanted to go kick in the doors and do the sexy type of direct action missions. 197 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,560 But Shannon said, hey, I actually really enjoy talking to these people. 198 00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:38,400 I've got an act for the language. 199 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:42,640 And so because of that ability to go out and talk with actual Iraqis and collect human 200 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:47,800 intelligence, she got put right on the front lines and a SEAL team eventually put her with 201 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:52,080 them as a part of their element to actually help them go out and track down bad guys. 202 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:57,000 So really, I mean, Shannon's career is just a story of her volunteering to be at the tip 203 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:02,240 of the spear and improving her worth, usually based on her ability to understand the language, 204 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,320 but then also to really understand the human factor. 205 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:09,040 And because she got so good at human intelligence, she really became quite the threat because 206 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,320 usually human intelligence collectors are separate from signals intelligence collectors 207 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:14,520 that sometimes even separated from linguists. 208 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:16,640 Shannon basically was a one-stop shop. 209 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:20,960 And that's why she ended up down there on the ground level with a special operations 210 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:24,640 task force way before women were even allowed anywhere near combat arms. 211 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,480 Marty, maybe you want to expand on this. 212 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:33,760 She was an incredible woman warrior, fierce, focused, intelligent. 213 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:42,840 Talk to us about how unusual it is for a cryptologist, a woman cryptologist, to find 214 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:48,240 herself at the pointy end of the spear with special operations. 215 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:54,160 You know, I think that the way we have to look at Shannon's trajectory through the military 216 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:59,480 is put it in context of what was going on within the larger special operations world 217 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,240 at that time. 218 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:08,960 Shannon came in at a time when special operations was evolving from very siloed units like SEALs 219 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:12,360 stuck with SEALs, Rangers with range, you know, so on and so forth. 220 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,400 And basically what happened throughout the Joint Special Operations Command and some 221 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:20,960 initiatives that happened in the mid-auts there was they started bringing everybody 222 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:27,680 together and they needed intelligence to be that connective tissue throughout the organization. 223 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:32,000 And so if you had somebody like Shannon come along, like Joe said, that was kind of a one-stop 224 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:38,720 shop could speak all the different languages, not just literally Arabic or French or Spanish, 225 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:43,520 but the languages of the different special operations units and their cultures and that 226 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:44,520 sort of thing. 227 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:51,080 Shannon was able to be that connective tissue and she was able to get into these positions 228 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:56,560 and get so close to the tipy point of the spear there and going out on missions, doing, 229 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:01,400 you know, taking part in direct action raids, all this sort of stuff because she was able 230 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,880 to get there before anybody was even asking if this is okay. 231 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:08,640 You just had commanders on the ground over there saying, hey, this is a value add to 232 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:10,040 my team. 233 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:15,560 Our organization is changing to be more like we need to have the people in place, share 234 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:20,160 intelligence and have people that are enabling the mission to be as effective as it could. 235 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:24,640 I mean, they were, it was an industrialized scale of network-centric warfare happening 236 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:30,320 in Iraq back in the mid-auts and somebody like Shannon, you skipped right past, oh, 237 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:34,800 can we have a woman with us straight to, oh my God, she's somebody that can directly impact 238 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:38,760 our mission and make us more successful on the battlefield. 239 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,920 And so just, I don't think people even asked the question if it was okay. 240 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:43,240 She just went right into it. 241 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:49,160 It's one of those things where I think once you demonstrate yourself and that ability 242 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:55,760 to respect funds, she had a focus always to keep earning that respect and train hard both 243 00:15:55,760 --> 00:16:04,560 in physically to be in physical shape to stay with special operations, but also linguistically, 244 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:11,040 she would listen Joe to Arabic news broadcast at home when she was stateside to keep her 245 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:12,040 language skills sharp. 246 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,040 That's incredible to me. 247 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:19,600 And you know, the physical side is really interesting in that a lot of times Joe and 248 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,720 I have probably worked with a lot of guys and gals that come on as enablers or support 249 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:29,560 and you know, there's questions on whether they can keep up, right, from a physical perspective. 250 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:33,360 And Shannon was one of those people from what I understand, there was never any question 251 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,600 on whether she could keep up and in fact, helped out a lot of folks as far as that making 252 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,280 them better runners better at swimming, better at some of these things that she was, you 253 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:43,200 know, physically gifted in. 254 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:49,040 So it's not like she was just a great Intel analyst or a great human Intel collector or 255 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:50,240 any or great linguist. 256 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,800 She had all the physical attributes that you expect out of somebody that's working at the 257 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:55,840 highest levels of special operations. 258 00:16:55,840 --> 00:17:03,320 The thing that I think is important to get across here is something that I read, Joe, 259 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:12,120 you first met Shannon, I think in like 2007, I think it was. 260 00:17:12,120 --> 00:17:17,040 And she was all business, no flirtation. 261 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,080 She was there for the mission and focused on the mission. 262 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:22,680 If I'm reading this right and I'm trying to look find the date. 263 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:29,960 And a while you ended up bumping into each other stateside somewhere along the line before 264 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,720 anything else happened. 265 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:39,200 But the importance of having respect and being all business is one of those messages that 266 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:45,040 I think is important for some people to hear and it probably impressed you as well. 267 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:46,560 Yeah, it really did. 268 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,360 I mean, she was all business despite my best efforts. 269 00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:51,640 I should caveat that. 270 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,200 She was professional, I probably was a little bit less professional. 271 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:59,520 But yeah, no, I actually met her at the embassy complex in 2007. 272 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:04,280 I was over there just trying to match up some of the intelligence that my human sources 273 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,600 were reporting back with some of the signals intelligence people. 274 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,280 I literally just walked into a brief that Shannon was giving on target that I was chasing. 275 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:14,240 And I was really impressed, not, you know, obviously by how she looked, but also the 276 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:16,040 fact that she really knew her stuff. 277 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:21,800 And she was, I would say doing much more common sense analysis than usually I would find at 278 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:26,520 a an intelligence centric organization like she was working in at the time. 279 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:28,240 And actually met her about a week or two. 280 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:29,520 We figured this out years later. 281 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:34,120 I met her a week or two before the SEAL team brought her down to where the actual the teams 282 00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:36,920 were deploying every night going after bad guys. 283 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,920 But she was there and she was putting to get she was tying together the pieces in a way 284 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:41,920 that really impressed me. 285 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:43,320 And that was my fourth combat deployment. 286 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:47,240 So I kind of thought that I knew what was going on and the way that she was taking the 287 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:53,560 human factor and overlaying that with her knowledge of Iraqi culture in order to hunt 288 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:58,320 down bad guys to put them into time and space so that we could kill them was incredibly 289 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:03,840 impressive to me as somebody who had just really dedicated my life to the Iraq deployments 290 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:08,680 at that time, just seeing that Shannon was equally as committed to me was was really, 291 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:09,680 really impressive. 292 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,680 And something that stuck with me for many years until we actually ended up stationed at the 293 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,440 same unit together years later. 294 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:21,120 And I mentioned earlier her intelligence and her focus, but I think there's also as you 295 00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:27,640 read the book, there's this positivity, but humility and humor that she had Joe that 296 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:33,760 that kind of took her to another place in terms of how people viewed her. 297 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:34,760 Yes, certainly. 298 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:41,640 I mean, she just had a very humble personality, but very, very humorous always had a joke never 299 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:46,360 really took herself or a situation too seriously, which, you know, I think a lot of people who've 300 00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:50,960 never been in a high stress, high performing environment like a special operations task 301 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:55,880 course, you kind of tend to think that it's a very serious environment and it is. 302 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,760 But I personally think the true professionals are the ones who can usually rise above the 303 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,320 situation and keep a certain degree of calm. 304 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,640 And Shannon just exuded that in spades. 305 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:10,160 I could tell from the time that we met and then to once we met again later on in life 306 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:11,160 and started dating. 307 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:15,560 I mean, she had, I would say almost the same demeanor as a lot of really experienced special 308 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,360 operators who had just kind of been there and done that. 309 00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:20,560 And that was the way that she carried herself, never had any ego. 310 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:25,760 She was always quick to mentor, you know, the sailors and other troops below her. 311 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:27,200 That was actually really one of her hobbies. 312 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,240 She'd had people over to her house who were struggling at work. 313 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,800 She started a swim program and a run program for some of the people that were below her 314 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,200 in rank that were having a hard time in that realm. 315 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:43,880 So that was just her nature, I think, as a human, but then also as a mother and as a 316 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:49,080 wife and everything that she was. 317 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,640 Maybe Mari, I'll ask you to talk about it. 318 00:20:51,640 --> 00:21:00,120 Shannon did, I think it was five overseas deployment, Joe did, I think, 11 combat deployments. 319 00:21:00,120 --> 00:21:03,800 Mari, tell us what happened on the last deployment for Shannon. 320 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:04,800 Yeah. 321 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:09,440 So I really think the way that I look at her different deployments, her fifth deployment 322 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:15,720 was really the pinnacle of her professional career as far as what she was doing. 323 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:21,320 I think she was at the very highest level doing things that so few people can or will 324 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,680 do in a very dynamic environment. 325 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:33,520 I mean, Syria in 2019 was kind of unlike anything we'd ever seen before as far as like a geopolitical 326 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:34,520 environment. 327 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:40,040 It was a very complicated place where a mistake could cause a lot of problems at an international 328 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,040 scale. 329 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,880 We've got it in the book somewhere where one of the guys that we talked to that was 330 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:51,120 also working at theaters, we're literally looking at Russian flags right across the way. 331 00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:54,160 I mean, it was a very dynamic environment. 332 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:59,560 A lot of places for things to go wrong and you needed trusted professionals like Shannon. 333 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:04,040 Shannon and Joe both were people that were a little bit of an anomaly even within special 334 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:08,640 operations and the fact that they stayed at the tactical level throughout their entire 335 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:09,640 career. 336 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,720 I mean, it was usually people move on to sort of administrative leadership sort of positions. 337 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,680 They were both very much at the ground level like doing the job. 338 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,080 And so for Shannon, that was her deployment. 339 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:20,920 She was doing key leader engagements. 340 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:22,160 She was doing source meets. 341 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:30,760 She was very involved in shaping what was going on in Syria at that time in regard to 342 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:36,040 a post ISIS sort of mess that was there. 343 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:44,400 And yeah, I mean, ultimately, you know, on January 16th of 2019, a suicide bomber came 344 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:49,400 in to walk into the middle of their element as they were getting ready to leave an area 345 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:53,120 that they were working in in Manbij, Syria. 346 00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:58,640 And it took the life of her as well as three other Americans and injured many more and 347 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,240 killed many other Syrian defense forces as well. 348 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:07,640 And it's a very and as you read it in the book, even it was a very tragic but very abrupt 349 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,200 end to an incredible person's life. 350 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:16,520 And that's one thing, you know, for Joe and and the rest of her family, I imagine it's 351 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,640 very like it's the last thing they expected you. 352 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,400 You consider when a family member goes off to war that that's certainly a possibility, 353 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,040 but the odds are in your favor. 354 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:28,520 Most people who go to war, at least in the 21st century, they come back from war, right? 355 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:34,280 Like maybe not in one piece all the time, but most of them are coming back alive, usually. 356 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,280 And so you just figure the odds in your favor. 357 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:42,560 So her dying after such a long career of doing incredible work and as a mother and kids and 358 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,280 it just it was very abrupt. 359 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:50,560 And so we tried to one of my hopes with the book as people come to know Shannon throughout 360 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:57,800 the book is that they experience even one 1000th of the pain and just lost that Joe 361 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,800 and her family felt when they found out. 362 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:07,440 You know, incredible person and we always like go out of our way and that's great. 363 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:13,240 Hey, hey, honor to those who are lost and along with Shannon that day was Jonathan farmer 364 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,600 of we've raised Scott Wurz, a civilian intelligence officer. 365 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:24,040 She worked with a lot and Godara Tara Syrian born contractor who had returned to Syria to 366 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:29,320 being an interpreter for the US military all for those folks lost their life on the suicide 367 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:34,400 bomb event on January 16, 2019. 368 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:40,320 The recognition that this doesn't do the family any good, but it's important, I think for 369 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:48,880 for society, the recognition Shannon got in in death is substantial the country on her 370 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:57,560 the Navy on her the chiefs in the naval honored her she was the first enlisted service person 371 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:02,240 to be in state at the Naval Academy. 372 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:09,920 She's buried in Arlington, the number of speakers and commentators about her incredible patriotism. 373 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:16,840 And I'm sure it as I say it doesn't do any good for the family at the time, but I think 374 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:22,520 it's important and certainly one way society recognizes these airlines who have been out 375 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:29,400 there working so hard now I had to read 200 pages to get to the title of the book. 376 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:33,320 And then when I got there I went, it's so obvious. 377 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:41,520 And the book send me the true story of a mother at war send me comes from a biblical quote, 378 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:48,840 Isaiah six to eight, where it's asked whom shall I send Lord and the responses send me. 379 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:53,600 And that really captured up Shannon spirit right she could have ducked out six different 380 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,360 ways on these deployments. 381 00:25:56,360 --> 00:26:00,320 But she really responded with that. 382 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:04,400 Send me approach didn't she Joe. 383 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:10,000 She did I mean that was how we lived our lives I mean that's why I was really what attracted 384 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,720 me to her in the first place and then why we decided to get married. 385 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,880 I mean it's we cover in the book one of our first dates we just sort of talked about like 386 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:17,960 a wire wire. 387 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,120 Why are we doing this you know why are you still in the military because that we you 388 00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:25,600 know establish we both had multiple deployments and we're both just very much committed to 389 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,400 to our country to our fight to the our brothers and sisters on our left and right and we both 390 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:34,560 figured hey if someone's gonna go it should be us and as we were talking about Shannon's 391 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,240 final deployment we talk about this a lot in the book that was very challenging for 392 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,800 our family she had another path that was kind of carved out for her that would have left 393 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:46,320 her back in the states that didn't work out because of some catch 22 types of reasons 394 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:50,400 and but she could have gotten out of that final deployment and I know I know there was 395 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,600 a lot of her and me that was saying hey we should you should just get out of this deployment 396 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,360 I mean you're a mom now it's completely different no one's gonna think any less of you if you 397 00:26:58,360 --> 00:27:01,440 get out of it but at the end of the day Shannon said no if people are gonna go and they're 398 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:06,280 gonna be in harm's way why am I any different I have all the skills I should be the one 399 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:10,320 that goes forward and fights for our country and so that's that's why we title the book 400 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:16,360 that way and that's just how Shannon lived her life selfless sacrifice it's it's incredible 401 00:27:16,360 --> 00:27:23,000 Marty as the executive editor in chief of task and purpose this has to be you see many 402 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:28,040 stories but this one just have to be right at the top of the list and it's not even my 403 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:33,320 work in journalism I mean that's certainly part of it I've seen all these stories I've 404 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:41,120 been to a lot of memorials for fallen service members there's you know I know this world 405 00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:47,880 pretty well when I went down to meet Joe in the in Virginia or the Maryland Maryland 406 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:54,160 Virginia DC area there where they lived and I still very vividly remember sitting down 407 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,760 at a table to talk to Joe and one of their family friends Ali and kind of doing the 408 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:04,720 initial interview and then it was I think the next day that we went to the memorial 409 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:09,800 at the Naval Academy and that was when it really hit me how much of an impact Shannon 410 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:14,960 had had on this world on the military on the special officer me on this but this world 411 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:20,760 you know she had had such an impact that the people that came out for that the the it was 412 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:25,560 unlike anything that I'd seen you know like I said it's not the first memorial for a fallen 413 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:31,880 service member I'd ever been to it was unlike anything that I'd ever seen and even through 414 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:36,680 writing that initial article about her you go through some of it and there's times where 415 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:41,680 I'm just like man I couldn't make this up like this is this is something that you almost 416 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:46,000 like if you're writing trying to write like a Jason Bourne character or something like 417 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,080 that you would maybe come up with some of this stuff like she was but this is a real 418 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:56,280 person that really possessed these capabilities but also the capacity for for being a mother 419 00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:01,840 for being a wife for a sister a friend a mentor like all these other things that you don't 420 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:06,920 typically associate with the you know the cold-hearted killer special operator right 421 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:12,600 like but she was able to do all of those things and I really you know when I first saw the 422 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:17,480 first news report when it came out obviously I have to follow the news pretty closely and 423 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:22,680 I saw the first articles come out on January 16th at the about an explosion in Syria and 424 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:27,520 then a couple in you know in the days after where they released the names after the families 425 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:33,080 have been notified and they were framing this as like they were out to lunch or something 426 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:39,840 like like this was some sort of like joy ride that they were doing in Manbij but even I 427 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:46,560 knew at that time looking at okay Scotty Wurz, Shannon Kent, John Farmer, Gadir like this 428 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,440 isn't the John I've said a couple of different times this wasn't the going out to lunch crowd 429 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:54,840 like this wasn't the people that were just messing around in a war zone like you just 430 00:29:54,840 --> 00:30:00,360 those types of people aren't together in a war zone for for messing around you know it's 431 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:05,920 all it's all business it's all business and again it's an inspiring story I hope many 432 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:13,400 many young women pick this up and read it and are inspired by Shannon's focus dedication 433 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:19,080 and intelligence, passivity, humility, all of those things which come through in the 434 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:25,640 book send me gentlemen if you've got a few more minutes I'd like to go to the third 435 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,760 area that I want to talk about it but but it totally up to you if you don't have time 436 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:30,760 I understand. 437 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:37,720 Yeah, no, no, no, this is this is sort of above and beyond the book if you will but it comes 438 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:42,600 out through the book and I think it's an important message for the civilian community 439 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:49,760 to understand and Joe you really lived it here with Shannon and that's the importance 440 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:58,160 of family both both you have two boys both as parents the importance of being able to 441 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:06,000 deploy and take care of the kids but also sisters mothers friends cousins talk to us 442 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:13,080 a little bit about the importance of family for those who are deploying. 443 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:18,200 Yeah, I mean it's it's incredibly important especially if you you have kids I mean I was 444 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,480 pretty fortunate I did the vast majority of my deployments before I was married before 445 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,800 I had kids and so that definitely gave me a different view of deploying and I actually 446 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,920 had I've gone back in years since and kind of apologized to some of my teammates who 447 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:34,360 had kids and had families and like I was living this great adventure and wondering why they 448 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,520 were you know having some sort of struggles at home and things like that but it is very 449 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,840 challenging so if you don't have a spouse that that understands why you're in the fight 450 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,520 and it has equally committed to you it's going to be very difficult and I was very blessed 451 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:51,480 to have Shannon in my life because she understood exactly what I was going to go do whenever 452 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,560 I deployed when we were married and had kids but then also having a family support system 453 00:31:55,560 --> 00:32:00,200 and my parents were absolutely amazing they would always fly out if I was gone or Shannon 454 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,640 was gone to help us out with the kids and just to be there Shannon's sister lived with us 455 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:09,040 for a year after our first son was born and was basically you know when when Shannon and 456 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:13,360 I were both off at work or I deployed for a big part of that year and it was Shannon 457 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:19,280 and her sister there with my first son with our first son Colt and then you know once 458 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:23,040 once Shannon deployed again both my parents came back out Shannon's parents came down 459 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:27,760 quite a bit we did and then just a robust network to the friends I mean the longer you're 460 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,720 in the military the more people you know get married and have kids and those types of things 461 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:36,120 and so you do end up really supporting each other and Shannon had a really great community 462 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,680 up there in the Fort Meade area of other working mothers you know who were going through some 463 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,600 of the same struggles as well as her and so they were able to support each other and so 464 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:48,280 it's just it's something that doesn't get talked about anywhere near enough I think 465 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:53,040 as we discuss going off and deploying to war how important that home structure is and just 466 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,200 how vital the family is. 467 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:59,720 We have a recruiting problem in this country that's well documented and part of it I think 468 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:05,280 are you know parents who don't have any exposure to the military lifestyle think in part they're 469 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:10,560 their kids whether it be a boy or a girl a young man a young woman are going to be lonely 470 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,800 that they're not going to have family that there's not going to be this community or 471 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:20,600 network around but one really develops and Marty I'm sure you saw that as well in your 472 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,520 time in the service. 473 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:30,720 Yeah I so on the tail end of my military career I was a recruiter and there is a big gap between 474 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,640 what parents think the military is and families think the military is and what it actually 475 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:43,600 is but ultimately at the end of the day it is service you are going to go do something 476 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:49,560 that is not always going to be comfortable that is going to make complications for you 477 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:55,280 at home and family and to Joe's point if you've got people in your life that understand that 478 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:59,120 and are able to support that and support you that makes all the difference in the world 479 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:07,760 it really does I you know I didn't do any of my deployments with kids I was with my 480 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,080 wife through four out of my five deployments but we didn't have any kids or anything like 481 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:15,240 that I look back on it now I totally know what you're saying Joe like I have I look 482 00:34:15,240 --> 00:34:19,320 back at the guys I deployed with who had families and kids I'm like I don't know how they did 483 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:26,720 it I literally cannot understand what it would take to be able to go through that and Joe 484 00:34:26,720 --> 00:34:30,440 even at the tail end of your career with you still deploying having to say you know 485 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,880 kiss the kids goodbye like I mean that is that is a level of service that I don't think 486 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,320 most people will ever ever understand. 487 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:44,600 We don't give a product to the mothers who do this right Joe everybody's focusing on 488 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:52,040 what an incredible warrior Shannon was and selfless she was but she brought that thing 489 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,480 sort of energy to being a mother didn't she? 490 00:34:54,480 --> 00:35:00,160 Yeah she most certainly did I mean Shannon somehow squeezed 25 to 26 hours out of every 491 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:05,400 single day I mean that was just her personality she really just went all in on everything 492 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:10,360 that she did including being a mom I mean she she carved out a ton of time for our sons 493 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,120 she was there you know when they woke up in the morning she was there when they would 494 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:17,720 go to sleep at night that's another reason why her fifth deployment was just it was so 495 00:35:17,720 --> 00:35:22,560 painful for her to actually say goodbye and leave the boys and it was a much bigger conversation 496 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:28,080 that we had and just a very hard lift for her but I mean she put a ton of zeal into 497 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,560 being a mother I mean it's crazy now that I look back on it there was so much that 498 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:36,840 Shannon was doing to make memories to document our memories she made these great family albums 499 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,840 and these family books that when she was doing it I thought she was a little bit like obsessive 500 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,320 it's like what's the timeline why do you have to do this like right I mean she would make 501 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:49,280 sure that she did them you know basically every year on the year she was just really 502 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:54,280 good about making memories making every meal special decorating our house of artwork that 503 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:59,960 she made that was you know that represented both of the boys I mean she was just she 504 00:35:59,960 --> 00:36:05,120 Shannon did not do anything halfway she did everything all the way and she loved our sons 505 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:11,400 and was a great wife you know 100% of the time so it's just she's just an amazing human 506 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:18,200 and loved everyone in her family and then also just her military family as well. 507 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:23,720 And some of this is just again I think the civilian world doesn't get this it's perfectly 508 00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:28,360 normal stuff that military moms are doing they're making the garden out back they're 509 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:34,520 cooking special meals they're she had an artistic talent with the mosaics as you mentioned 510 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:40,160 I'll call it scrapbooking I don't know if that's the right term but all that normal 511 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:47,400 mother stuff that should that civilian and military moms have together and we need to 512 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:53,000 kind of get it across to folks that if it can be a great life and you can do all these 513 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,000 things can't you Joe? 514 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,680 Yeah you certainly can I mean our neighbors in our neighborhood really they knew that 515 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,240 Shannon was in the military I think they thought that she was like a translator that worked 516 00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:06,520 at Fort Meade and kind of had an office job it wasn't until she deployed she was killed 517 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:10,120 they really understood what she did because she was out there you know pushing the stroller 518 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:14,320 with with all the other moms I mean they were all making gardens together just you know 519 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:18,800 very normal everyday nine to five stuff I think they they knew that I had this neat title 520 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,360 of like being a green beret or whatever so they assumed I was off doing you know commando 521 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:26,880 type of things but they thought that Shannon was just the normal housewife working mom 522 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:31,200 just like the rest of them but yeah you're you're right I think as the military has such 523 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:37,520 a I just a male forward-facing appearance for obvious reasons people do forget that women 524 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:42,400 in the military are going home and cooking meals and making photo albums and just doing 525 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:47,280 all the regular mom type of stuff and they balance all of that and I think that's a much 526 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:52,240 more difficult balancing act than it is being a working dad in the military just because 527 00:37:52,240 --> 00:37:57,440 I think that you know most of society understands what a working dad is but this working mother 528 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:03,760 also being in the military is something that's that's relatively new look at that a macho 529 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:08,880 reburace recognizing how hard working mothers work that's that's good stuff right there 530 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:16,720 I want to thank both you guys for taking the time today to talk to veteran radio listeners about 531 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:23,120 sending the incredible two story of a mother at war it's really the shanin 10th story 532 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:30,400 as I said at the outset a hell of a mother hell of a warrior hell of a patriot and really great 533 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:36,480 that we can pay honor to her here on mother's day military veterans touch everyone's life 534 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:41,920 I'm guessing right now you're thinking of a veteran a close friend relative maybe it's you 535 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:46,480 even the toughest on us sometimes need help but don't know where to turn for support you don't 536 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:51,680 need special training to help a veteran in your life even small actions can make a world of difference 537 00:38:51,680 --> 00:39:01,680 if you know a veteran in crisis please call the veterans crisis line 800 273 8255 800 273 8255 538 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:06,160 a message from the u.s department of veterans affairs if you have a v8 claim denied by the 539 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:13,120 board of veterans appeals contact legal help for veterans at 1-800-6934800 they're experts in 540 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:20,080 handling cases before the u.s court of appeals for veterans claims their number again 1-800-6934800 541 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:26,880 we want to welcome to veterans radio today carry philip eddie she is the executive director of the 542 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:32,320 vandenberg coalition which we're going to talk about but she also was involved in writing a 543 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:39,600 op-ed piece for the washington examiner which is where i saw it earlier about how civics education 544 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:46,000 maybe could help solve the military recruitment crisis so you'll want to listen to her here carry 545 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:51,520 welcome to veterans radio thank you so much for having me jim excited to be here well you have a 546 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:57,600 very interesting career path out of the university of virginia with your degree and then on to work 547 00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:04,480 at the united nations as a senior policy advisor for the united states mission you advised then 548 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:09,840 ambassador nickie haley on issues related to counterterrorism in the middle east and things in 549 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:17,200 the western hemisphere you've done work for the state department in a lot of things down south of 550 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:23,520 venezuela for example and now find yourself as the executive director of the vandenberg coalition 551 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:29,200 can you tell us a little bit about the vandenberg coalition sure i'd be happy to and and i've been 552 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:34,640 very fortunate to have great mentors like ambassador haley and others in the last administration 553 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:42,560 that that helped establish my career path so the vandenberg coalition we started it in 2021 i was 554 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:48,640 just leading the trump administration and was concerned by what i was seeing as this rise in 555 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:55,840 a sentiment of american retreat the sense that a longer a powerful nation and should not um 556 00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:01,440 seek to promote its interests and its values around the world and as someone who grew up on the 557 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:07,600 outskirts of new york city you know on 9 11 i'm very much aware that no matter how much we want to 558 00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:12,560 retreat from the world our enemies are going to try to attack us and it's going to cost far more 559 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:17,760 american lives if we wait for that then if we address the threats in smaller ways before they 560 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:23,040 get to our borders so that was generally the impetus for the coalition we wanted to create 561 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:27,920 a network of conservative thought leaders people who had served in government before 562 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:35,040 who could really create a new foreign policy for 2023 and going forward not looking back at what 563 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:40,000 previous presidents did not saying everything that reagan did with right or bush did was right or 564 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:44,320 truncated was right but really recognizing that we're in a completely different threat 565 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:49,200 environments than we've ever faced before and how do we appropriately confront that threat 566 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:54,960 environment using both these new opportunities that technology provides us as well as the new 567 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:59,840 challenges and obstacles that we have with things like the rise of of communist china 568 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:06,960 so the coalition exists to push for that kind of an agenda to push for an american people first 569 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:13,760 foreign policy that better serves american interests and promotes american prosperity american freedom 570 00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:21,680 and and american strength well i have to admit that i didn't know who senator vandenberg was 571 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:28,720 uh when i started researching hey how do i how do i talk to the author of this interesting idea 572 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:36,480 only to learn that arthur van der berg who who died in 1951 uh was a senator from my home state 573 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:42,720 here in michigan and that he studied law at the university of michigan but made his mark in journalism 574 00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:49,600 before going on to the united states senate tell us a little bit about arthur vandenberg and why that 575 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:55,680 became the the name of the coalition absolutely and it's not unusual i mean i'll be honest with you 576 00:42:55,680 --> 00:43:01,200 when we started this group and we're trying to come up with the best name for it i also was not 577 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:06,320 familiar with arthur van denberg up until you know meeting with some folks and and then demanding him 578 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:12,880 to me so as you mentioned um arthur van denberg was a senator from michigan he served from 1928 579 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:20,720 until 1951 which is of course a very pivotal moment for american foreign policy he was a um uh a true 580 00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:27,840 conservative a true republican and for much of his life as a political leader he was an isolationist 581 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:34,800 and then pro harbour happened and he had what is known as this sort of massive public conversion 582 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:40,720 the quote speech heard around the world where he subsequently said that our our oceans have 583 00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:46,400 seats to be most which automatically protects our ramparts essentially acknowledging that 584 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:52,560 no matter what we want here no matter how much we want to avoid war we have enemies and they are 585 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:58,800 going to try to attack us unless we put up stronger defenses and he ultimately became the chief 586 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:04,720 architect for some of the most sort of modern forms of conservative foreign policy so he was 587 00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:11,840 the chief legislative architect of the marshal plan of nato of the un and the truman doctrine 588 00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:19,040 and he really established what it means to be a republican leading in foreign policy 589 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:26,240 in that post world era and really set the stage for uniting conservatives around a strong foreign 590 00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:32,240 policy so what we appreciated about him and why we chose his name is because he understood what it 591 00:44:32,240 --> 00:44:37,760 was like to be an isolationist he understood why he needed to shift from that man and the kind of 592 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:42,480 threat that were in front of him he remained true to his conservative roots but at the same time 593 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:47,440 was willing to work across the aisle to do what was best for the united states and those are things 594 00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:53,360 that we all try to bring into the vandenberg coalition so i'm hoping that part of what we do 595 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:58,960 can help spread the word about this fantastic michigan senator who really had an outside influence 596 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:03,280 on conservative foreign policy and american foreign policy and yet very few people are 597 00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:10,000 familiar with his story well and i would encourage anybody who is interested in that story or the 598 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:17,600 history if you will go to vandenberg coalition dot org go to the about us tab and check down to who 599 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:25,440 is arthur vandenberg there's a nice explanation of all this including the speech heard around the world 600 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:32,400 after pearl harbor and sort of how he converted from hey united states be an isolationist just 601 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:39,040 worry about your own area to this recognition that hey we have an internationalism here we have to 602 00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:43,520 deal with the whole world so very interesting and and i'd encourage people to look at it carry but 603 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:51,040 before we lose too much more time i want to come back to what caught my attention which was uh your 604 00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:57,840 or peace and restore in restoring america about quote how civics education can help solve the 605 00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:05,120 military recruitment crisis tell us a little bit about that sure well um and somebody who works 606 00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:12,160 in national security obviously you know having a a declining military capacity is essential 607 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:18,320 in too many of my conversations and of course many of your listeners will know that the united 608 00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:22,240 is experiencing one of the most significant recruitment crises. 609 00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:26,920 And by the way, retention crises that it has seen since the end of the draft. 610 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:29,600 So the question is what's spurring that forward? 611 00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:31,880 And there's a few different things. 612 00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:35,360 One thing is just, you know, medical records are now online. 613 00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:39,520 So while people in the past will be able to join the military and maybe they wouldn't 614 00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:44,840 divulge that they had, you know, ADD or they broke some part of some bone at some point, 615 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,600 now it's all online and so the military has access to it. 616 00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:49,920 So some of those things need to be updated. 617 00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:53,840 Other things are just the physical fitness of our youth. 618 00:46:53,840 --> 00:47:00,920 So the stats that we've seen from 2020 suggest that only about 23% of Americans between the 619 00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:05,880 ages of 17 to 24 are even eligible for military service. 620 00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,880 And when you think about that number, then the question is how many of those want to 621 00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:10,880 serve? 622 00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:15,880 And that's where civic education really does play a significant role because civic is all 623 00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:21,440 about teaching people about why our country was created, what we stand for, what our principles 624 00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:26,480 are and why it's so important to preserve those things and fight for what it means to 625 00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:32,360 be an American and understand what it means to be an American and to integrate into America 626 00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:36,000 if you are, you know, immigrating here from another country. 627 00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:40,920 And so I think it makes sense that we're seeing a decline in interest in the military, you 628 00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:47,280 know, in the last year in 2023, the only branches that met their recruitment targets 629 00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:53,080 were the Marine Corps and the State Force and you had about a 41,000 person shortfall 630 00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:57,920 in the Army, Navy and Air Force. 631 00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:04,440 And so it's critically important that people understand why service matters so much. 632 00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,120 And I think that's where there's really been this gap. 633 00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:13,560 Throughout the last few decades, we've seen declining civic education in universities, 634 00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,400 declining civic education in K through 12. 635 00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:21,080 Nobody is being taught why being an American matters and the good that it does to the world 636 00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:24,000 and then therefore why would anybody want to serve. 637 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:28,720 So I think making sure that people are educated in those things is critical to inspiring them 638 00:48:28,720 --> 00:48:32,560 to want to serve their country, whether it's in the military or frankly, whether it's through 639 00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:37,240 a corporation that can bring economic benefit back to the United States as well. 640 00:48:37,240 --> 00:48:43,200 Yeah, I think it's an interesting thought here because this recruiting and retention 641 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:48,120 problem is ultimately a national security problem. 642 00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:53,200 We've been talking about it with a lot of different thought leaders and writers and 643 00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:59,040 military men and women on Veterans Radio and we're talking to Kerry Phillip Petty, who's 644 00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:02,680 the executive director of the Vandenberg Coalition. 645 00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:08,440 And I think some of this is related to, well, you know, that 1% of the population or less 646 00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:10,640 takes care of us. 647 00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:17,120 I don't have to involve my family, whereas during World War II, certainly it was every 648 00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:23,080 family during the Vietnam draft because of the draft, it became almost every family. 649 00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:29,480 So we've really gone generations now where we think, well, we don't think about it. 650 00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:34,320 Somebody else takes care of it for us and it really, people aren't taught and this 651 00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:38,400 is the, you know, I grabbed the yellow marker when I read this line that you guys wrote, 652 00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:44,040 which is, if people are not taught why their country is worth defending, they are less 653 00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:49,560 inclined to serve in the military or contribute their skills to its success. 654 00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:51,920 It's really that simple, isn't it? 655 00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:52,920 I think it is. 656 00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:57,880 I mean, again, what people are being taught today in schools, particularly universities, 657 00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:05,200 that even at the K through 12 level now, is that America is bad, that America has a scary 658 00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:06,200 problematic history. 659 00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:10,840 And rather than reading America through the lens of this, what Dr. Martin Luther King, 660 00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,680 Jr. called the promissory note, right, this idea that we would always seek to be a more 661 00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:15,680 perfect union. 662 00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:19,600 Instead of understanding that as the root of what it means to be an American, people 663 00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:24,920 are trying to say that what it means to be an American are, you know, accepting and being 664 00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:29,040 a, you know, racist or being opposed to other cultures. 665 00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,040 And that's not at all what it is about. 666 00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:32,320 That's not what it has been about. 667 00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:38,040 And I think there's a way of teaching the reality of, you know, American history with 668 00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:43,800 a very clear understanding of what a beautiful system the United States has created and how 669 00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:47,840 different and unique it is among all of the nations in the world. 670 00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:51,360 There used to be institutions that would do these, you know, I was a Girl Scout. 671 00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:54,320 I'm sure many of your listeners were Boy Scouts. 672 00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:58,800 And by the way, the correlation between those who were Eagle Scouts and those who serve 673 00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,920 in the military or the essential things is unbelievable. 674 00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:02,920 Absolutely. 675 00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:03,920 Yep. 676 00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:08,480 So, and we no longer have an emphasis on those sort of civics minded organizations. 677 00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:10,880 We don't teach it in schools anymore. 678 00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,480 We don't teach the Pledge of Allegiance anymore. 679 00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:16,160 We don't teach the founding documents anymore. 680 00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:21,280 And giving people the tools to understand how the United States has grown and developed, 681 00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:25,920 if you really understand our history, you will be inspired to serve this country, whether 682 00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:30,800 it is through the military or some other capacity for whatever reason you don't meet the fitness 683 00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:31,800 requirements. 684 00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:36,880 But people today are just not excited to be American. 685 00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:40,360 People today don't think that their children are going to have a better future than they 686 00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:41,360 will. 687 00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:47,040 They are all part of this broader cultural decline and cultural malaise where we just 688 00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:50,880 no longer have confidence in the United States anymore. 689 00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:55,480 So why would somebody young decide to put their life on the line for the country? 690 00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:59,080 And that's where civics education, I think, can make a significant difference. 691 00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:00,080 Yeah. 692 00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:01,680 We don't teach history at all. 693 00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:08,360 And a little bit we do teach is often slanted against this idea of why your country is worth 694 00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:09,880 defending. 695 00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:15,320 You had a co-author on the article, Hans Zieger, I believe, from the Jack Miller Center. 696 00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:18,560 Can you tell us a little bit about that relationship? 697 00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:19,560 Sure. 698 00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:26,320 So Hans is the leader of the Jack Miller Center, which is a fantastic organization that builds 699 00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:32,040 and sustains a higher education community that's focused on the teaching of civic education. 700 00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:37,920 So they create resources and teacher education for those individuals who will be teaching 701 00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:41,360 others about what it means to be an American. 702 00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:46,240 So they're very much involved in this, what they call the civics knowledge crisis. 703 00:52:46,240 --> 00:52:49,480 They focus on teaching about the American political tradition. 704 00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:53,560 They host a summit on civics education and have something called the Constitution Day 705 00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:56,560 Initiative, which I think would be fantastic for. 706 00:52:56,560 --> 00:53:02,800 I'm trying to get more people to celebrate Constitution Day, which is September 17th, 707 00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:06,000 which marks the signing of the U.S. Constitution. 708 00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:10,680 They work very, very hard on trying to promote civics education and have been involved in 709 00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:14,600 this space for many, many years, a lot longer than I have. 710 00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:22,440 So Hans is a brilliant leader of this organization and also the co-author of this op-ed. 711 00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:24,720 So Europe becomes the important question. 712 00:53:24,720 --> 00:53:29,600 Okay, guys like me read this and said, hmm, that's a really good idea. 713 00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:33,160 How has it been received by the educational world? 714 00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:37,520 We're saying, hey, we have to teach this down in the lower grades. 715 00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:41,000 Any feedback from the educational world yet? 716 00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:46,200 You know, I think there is this recognition and it's growing as we start to see how some 717 00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:53,280 of these initiatives that were intended to sort of recognize issues within the United 718 00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:56,640 States, things like the, you know, DEI initiatives and so on. 719 00:53:56,640 --> 00:54:01,520 Lately, there's been a lot of pushback against those things as we're seeing it play out, 720 00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:07,920 you know, with respect to the crisis in the Middle East and how it seems people are unable 721 00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:12,200 to kind of differentiate good versus evil at this stage. 722 00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:16,640 And so the education space, I think, is ripe for change and now is the moment for us to 723 00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:18,520 focus on this aspect. 724 00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:24,640 Regardless of your beliefs on, you know, DEI or other things, I think civics education 725 00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:29,280 is essential pillar of making good citizens, citizens that want to contribute. 726 00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:34,920 So so far, we've started to get a little bit more interest as that community, the educational 727 00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:39,800 community is opening itself up to recognizing, you know, maybe we've made some mistakes and 728 00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:44,240 seeing how different leaders of universities are being forced out because of those mistakes. 729 00:54:44,240 --> 00:54:48,480 So I'm hoping that now is really the moment, but it does require people like you, people 730 00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:52,840 like your viewers, people like me, as we, you know, if we have children to push for civics 731 00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:57,400 education there, to try to get our children enrolled in things like, you know, the South 732 00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:03,120 Program to be involved as community leaders, because those are the types of people that 733 00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:06,000 will be inspired to want to serve the country as well. 734 00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,480 So there's a lot that we can be doing at the local level. 735 00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:12,360 Well, that's a really great interview and you can hear the full interview on Veterans 736 00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:20,040 Radio's podcast, which you can find at all the normal outlets, Spotify, Google, Amazon, 737 00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:26,800 look for Veterans Radio America and check out our podcast, which we post every Tuesday. 738 00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:35,480 We always appreciate our sponsors, our VSO sponsors like VVA, Chapter 310, VFW, Post 423, 739 00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:39,000 American Legion, Post 46, all in Ann Arbor. 740 00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:45,280 And if you're in a position that maybe your post could also sponsor Veterans Radio or you 741 00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:51,120 individually or your corporation, go to our website, veteransradio.org, check it out, and 742 00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:56,600 I'm sure we can find a level at which your support will be meaningful to us. 743 00:55:56,600 --> 00:56:07,440 We have a dining fundraiser coming up at the Carlyle Grill in the Ann Arbor area on Sunday, 744 00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:13,560 Sunday the 26th of May, so maybe you can go out and have a nice meal and help support 745 00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:14,560 Veterans Radio. 746 00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:15,560 We'd love to see you. 747 00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:16,640 We'll be out there. 748 00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:21,920 So stop in any time during the dinner service to support Veterans Radio. 749 00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:27,080 And until next week on Veterans Radio, you are dismissed.