1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:15,180 All across America and around the world, this is Veterans Radio. 2 00:00:15,180 --> 00:00:17,040 And welcome to Veterans Radio. 3 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:20,680 I am Jim Fossone with veteransradio.net. 4 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:26,200 We are recording today from the Legal Help for Veterans Studio in Northville, Michigan. 5 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,480 Legal Help for Veterans is a Veterans Disability Law Firm. 6 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:36,760 You can reach us at 800-693-4800. 7 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:42,320 We want to welcome to Veterans Radio today James McClellan. 8 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:49,680 Jim or Doc served in the Marine Corps, but we have him on today on Veterans Radio to talk 9 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:51,960 about the Medal of Honor. 10 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:57,160 He is a recipient of the Medal of Honor in July of 2017. 11 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,960 Jim, welcome to Veterans Radio. 12 00:00:59,960 --> 00:01:01,960 Yeah, thank you. 13 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,400 That was two years ago yesterday, by the way, that I received the medal. 14 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:11,440 And two years ago today I was being inducted into the Hall of Heroes at the Pentagon. 15 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:17,120 Well it's been an amazing two years, and we're going to talk a little bit about that. 16 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:24,120 But before we get there, let's set up who you are. 17 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:30,480 Just a simple boy from South Haven and Bangor, Michigan. 18 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,600 Give us a little bit of your high school and college background. 19 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:39,680 Yeah, well I'll just go briefly back all the way where we didn't have electricity in my 20 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,520 house until I went running water until I was eight. 21 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:48,200 My dad got a shell of a house from his grandparents and it was rural Bangor. 22 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:53,760 And I went to a little one-room country school one mile down the road, walked there and back 23 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,040 home uphill both ways every day. 24 00:01:56,040 --> 00:02:00,160 And my brothers and I packed our own lunch and that kind of thing. 25 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:04,560 And then of course when I got into junior high and went into the junior high and high 26 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:11,800 school there at Bangor, I then became very involved in music and athletics. 27 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:17,000 Like four leads and four musicals in high school and 11 varsity letters in football, 28 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,880 basketball, baseball and track. 29 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:26,280 Also very involved in student government and key club and those kinds of things. 30 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,640 So I have been busy all my life. 31 00:02:29,640 --> 00:02:34,760 Was a candidate for West, not West Point, I'm wishing West Point, was a candidate for 32 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:40,280 Annapolis and was one of the top candidates in 10 states. 33 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:45,240 Until we got to the physical part where they found out I was colorblind and they do their 34 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:50,440 signals in red, green and white flags and I'm red, green colorblind. 35 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,920 Held me over next to day and gave me these charts. 36 00:02:52,920 --> 00:02:55,520 Can you see any letters or numbers in there? 37 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:57,880 And of course all I saw was dots. 38 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:03,360 So it wasn't until two days before I graduated from high school that I found out I was not 39 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:10,160 going to be wavered on the colorblindness and that I was rejected and eliminated from. 40 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:14,280 So I worked that summer in a factory literally in a factory and thought well I'll just be 41 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,600 another blue collar McLuhan. 42 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:21,760 My brother had started school and he was a, my older brother's two years older than me 43 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:23,400 and he'd started school. 44 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,240 He was the first McLuhan to go to college. 45 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:31,920 I became the second McLuhan was a lord to a college called Olivat College south of Michigan 46 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:33,320 state. 47 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:35,760 And when we went in I saw practice and football. 48 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:40,320 I don't remember what the registrar said in an hour's time but when she got done and she 49 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:41,520 said, is there any questions? 50 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:46,040 I said yes, can I still go off the football even though they've already started practice? 51 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:47,040 And she said yes. 52 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:52,960 And the rest of the story is I earned seven varsity letters from Olivat and football wrestling. 53 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:59,080 I started wrestling the first time in my life and baseball and was very involved again in 54 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:05,480 music was in a barbershop quartet and all kinds of solos through high school and in college 55 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,760 of course and still do a lot of that solo work now. 56 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:14,600 So that set me up for probably the next question whatever it is about going into the Army. 57 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:20,640 Well let's put a cap on the college career in that you graduated with a bachelor's of 58 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:26,640 arts and a teaching certificate and you were, you accepted a teaching and coaching position 59 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:33,920 at the South Haven public schools and then the Army said, hey Jimbo we've got a plan 60 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:35,800 for you. 61 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:42,480 Yeah actually in May just prior to my graduation in June 4th I had signed that contract with 62 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:43,480 South Haven. 63 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:48,960 I'd be coaching two sports and teaching actually elementary PE at that particular time. 64 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:57,280 That was 1968 and I got a letter from my uncle, Uncle Sam and he said that they would like 65 00:04:57,280 --> 00:05:01,760 me to take a physical and I really just thought they were trying to see who in the area was 66 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:07,120 physically fit and that's not the other thing but no they said they wanted me to send me 67 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,280 to a tropical zone before I started teaching. 68 00:05:10,280 --> 00:05:19,520 And one of the things that's always interesting particularly for Vietnam Veteran Medics which 69 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:24,440 you became is how you ended up being an Army medic. 70 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:26,000 Tell us a little bit about that. 71 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:31,560 Yeah as a matter of fact yesterday I told you prior to the beginning on radio today that 72 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:38,280 I was at the Boy Scouts Jamboree, the world Boy South Jamboree and a question was asked 73 00:05:38,280 --> 00:05:44,640 to me in my talk to some of the scouts and their leaders and there was a medical unit 74 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:49,880 there of course they're like a city with themselves and the medical unit was the Army medical 75 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:55,960 unit and some lad said hey you know how was it that you didn't have any medical background 76 00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:02,600 here, why did they choose you to be a medic and this is what happened I'm sure. 77 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:08,360 Studying to be a coach of course I had a minor there in physical education and I took 78 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:15,840 kinesiology, physiology, anatomy, advanced first aid, strapping and taping so I'm sure 79 00:06:15,840 --> 00:06:20,000 they thought that was a pretty good background. 80 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:24,080 Nothing can prepare you for what you're going to see as a medic in Vietnam. 81 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:30,440 I can tell you that because it was horrendous some of the things that I saw and haven't 82 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:37,920 told only to one person and that's my counselor, a Marine paraplegic and Grand Rapids. 83 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:43,520 And Jim you were assigned to a combat medic unit with Company C, 3rd Battalion, 21st Infantry 84 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:51,600 Regiment, 196 Light Infantry Brigade of the American Division and did your tour in Vietnam 85 00:06:51,600 --> 00:07:02,680 from March of 1969 to March of 1970 and saw one hell of a battle in May 13th to 15th of 86 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:03,680 1969. 87 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:07,960 Why don't you give us the short version. 88 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:14,360 Okay we heard on March, or on May 12th in the evening there was some talk going around 89 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:19,040 that we may be sent into an area to block a hill. 90 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:23,720 Well the next day 13th at about 7 in the morning. 91 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:29,120 It didn't take us long, well 15 minutes or 20 minutes and we were getting shot at as 92 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:30,600 we came into the area. 93 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:34,160 13 helicopters and 89 men from Charlie Company. 94 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:38,360 We had had some skirmishes prior to that and more down in numbers. 95 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:45,360 And actually two helicopters got shot down during that approach to just at the base of 96 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:52,040 quite a, I'd say about 2 miles from or 3 miles from the base of the hill, Nguyen Hill where 97 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,680 the NVA and BC were entrenched. 98 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,800 And we had some injuries because we couldn't even land. 99 00:07:57,800 --> 00:07:59,520 They didn't want to land the helicopters. 100 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:01,720 When you come in at a hot LV they tell you to jump out. 101 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:06,880 We jumped out from about 10 feet in the air with our full packs and our weapons and everything. 102 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,760 So I did have some injuries to take care of right away. 103 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:15,840 One of the helicopters was shot down, did get those crew got rescued right away, but 104 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:21,720 another one we had to have that platoon that was with them bring them in and in about half 105 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:22,720 way. 106 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:28,000 And one of the guys collapsed out there and that was my first rescue. 107 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:32,280 I ran out 100 yards, about 100 yards and slid in next to him and they're shooting at me. 108 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,560 Of course they're assaulting him. 109 00:08:34,560 --> 00:08:40,040 I'd say there's 75 yards away from him, meaning they, the NVA. 110 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:44,240 And I asked him where he was shot or wounded and he said it wouldn't wounded. 111 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,960 He hurt his knee jumping out of the helicopter. 112 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,080 I looked at him about the size of a volleyball. 113 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,480 I said, well, hang on and hang on to your weapon. 114 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:57,480 You're moving up on my shoulders and I weaved on the way in and of course could literally 115 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,680 see the bullets skipping off the ground around us. 116 00:09:00,680 --> 00:09:06,160 But my men were firing at them and keeping them so they couldn't get a really good shot. 117 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:10,480 And I got him in safely and got him out. 118 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:17,280 That was my first rescue in the 48 hours that we were going to be there. 119 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:22,120 That evening they asked my platoon to go out and search the area and I'm thinking these 120 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,480 people back at battalion, I must be nuts. 121 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:31,680 And they know we had two helicopters shot down and one of them couldn't even get rescued 122 00:09:31,680 --> 00:09:37,000 because of the kind of firepower that the enemy had. 123 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,080 And I said that there must be a lot of them out there. 124 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:44,320 But sure enough, we marched out towards that hill and out there a mile, mile and a half, 125 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:50,360 I could only guess how close we were getting to the hill when we got ambushed. 126 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:57,160 I looked up on the hill when, when the ambush started and the hill, Leon Hill was about 127 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,840 mile away, I'm going to guess in that area. 128 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:01,960 And I looked like lava coming down off there. 129 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,760 So at this particular time, I realized there were lots of them. 130 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:11,120 I had a call from medic and I was at the trench line at this time, jumped up on a perm. 131 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:12,600 There were two guys over in the bush. 132 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:18,560 They had been on the front of that particular ambush and the squad that was in front. 133 00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:20,080 Four guys got killed right away. 134 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:25,160 And these two guys, I headed towards, they were about 10 yards away from the edge of 135 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:32,560 the, the trench line and I heard a big explosion and felt the ping all over my body and didn't 136 00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:35,320 pay much attention because the adrenaline was flowing. 137 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:36,640 I just had to get to these guys. 138 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:37,800 They didn't have any weapons. 139 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:39,120 They had left their weapons behind. 140 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:43,240 I drugged them across that berm and into that trench line. 141 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:48,000 Notice they weren't injured or wounded. 142 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:53,360 So they were kind of scared and in the bush areas up on top of the berm, turned and looked 143 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,760 up on the berm again and there was about five yards away. 144 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:01,680 An NVA, two NVA were there, one NVA was looking me right in the eyeballs. 145 00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:08,240 He had an AK-47 and I had given up my weapon prior to going up on the berm. 146 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:13,640 So I said to the two guys that I drugged across, follow me and we started down the trench line. 147 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,320 It was slowing me up so I said it's going to be more dangerous out there, but I'm getting 148 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:19,480 up so I can run faster. 149 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:23,440 But again, bullets skipping off the ground. 150 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:30,560 Of course I didn't think at the time, but I just got wounded and so concentrating on. 151 00:11:30,560 --> 00:11:37,800 My two machine gunners who were in the trench line when I jumped on the berm had retreated 152 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:44,040 and they were about 75 to 100 yards back and I could hear their M16s going by my head so 153 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:46,320 they were shooting at the enemy. 154 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:51,040 I got close to them and all of a sudden a voice saying medic and so I turned around and went 155 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:59,320 back towards the enemy that was slowly coming at me and in and out probably about five times 156 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:03,840 in that process and then nightfall came and they backed off. 157 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:09,280 We got wounded and a couple of dead on the helicopter. 158 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:14,800 We did get a Medevac helicopter in and the company commander looked at me and said doc, 159 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,040 I'm down and that's when I realized oh yeah, I did get hit out there and I looked down 160 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,000 and I had my blood all over my body. 161 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:27,720 I hit from head to toe with a shrapnel and I looked at him and I said I'm not going. 162 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:28,720 And he said, why? 163 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:33,000 And I said you're going to need me because I had seen how many were out there. 164 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,080 I could hear my father saying Jim, you never do anything halfway. 165 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:40,280 You always do it to the best of your ability and do it until a job's over and I'd rather 166 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:46,280 be dead in a rice fatty than in a hospital safe and sound and find out that one of my 167 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,520 men got killed because I wasn't there to do my job. 168 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:54,440 But I did think when I refused to get on the helicopter that I just spent my last day on 169 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,600 this good earth. 170 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:04,120 And really I think that's one of those questions I wanted to ask that you lead into which is 171 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:08,840 you know what's going on in your head Jim? 172 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:17,520 You're being told don't go back, don't go back out, stay back here, get on the helicopter, 173 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:24,840 but you refuse to evacuate and you continue to go out into the kill zone multiple more 174 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:29,680 times to extract your wounded comrades. 175 00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:32,040 Is it your dad's voice that you're hearing? 176 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:33,040 Is it something else? 177 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:34,040 Is it a combination? 178 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:41,200 You know I often tell kids you can't, don't forget your roots and also make sure that 179 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:45,520 you take all of the mentoring that you can get from your parents and your relatives and 180 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:47,840 your teachers and your coaches. 181 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:53,120 I think that the credit has to be given to those who raised me and it does take a village 182 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:54,320 to raise anyone. 183 00:13:54,320 --> 00:14:00,200 But yeah and the background that I had as an athlete, background I had as a Christian 184 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,160 and so on and so forth. 185 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:08,400 But the big thing is that yeah I think the thing that does it is you get so close to 186 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,760 those men that you don't want to leave them for granted. 187 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,360 A lot of it's going to take all of you to get some of you out. 188 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:18,680 And so yeah that was the big thing and they backed off that night by the way the enemy 189 00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:23,720 made all kinds of noise out there and they had women screaming and dogs barking and we 190 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:24,720 kept them at bay. 191 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:30,040 The company commander called in our killery and we did get some help from the Air Force 192 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:37,080 and the Marines and shooting in from about, I'd say about four to six miles out of China 193 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,280 Sea was the Navy, excuse me, with their big guns. 194 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,280 So we did get some help and that kept them at bay. 195 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:50,480 But the next day it was real quiet and I knew the second day I knew that quiet was not good. 196 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,960 And this is May 14th, isn't it Jim? 197 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:54,960 This is May 14th. 198 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,920 This is the second day and I'm taking care of the minor wounded. 199 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:05,480 Of course I worked on anywhere from 40 to 50 in two days and there was another medic with 200 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,600 us at that particular time in the morning. 201 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:09,840 I'll get to that later on. 202 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:14,640 But anyway, I'm thinking you know what, they're just laying low and they're coming closer 203 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:18,720 to us and this could be it. 204 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:24,240 And sure enough at about four o'clock that night which was about the same time that they 205 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:30,520 told my platoon to go out the night before they said we want you guys to move, move out 206 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:32,400 towards the hill. 207 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:36,640 And their reasoning was then they won't know where you're at. 208 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,040 And I'm thinking they know where we're at. 209 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:43,800 A matter of fact, they're out there waiting and I couldn't believe it. 210 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:48,000 The first platoon, I was in the second platoon that went out the first night. 211 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:52,240 First platoon was asked to lead the way out and they didn't get out very far before they 212 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:53,440 were hit. 213 00:15:53,440 --> 00:16:02,120 And so that night I was very busy and was hit twice more once with AK-47 while I was 214 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:07,480 sitting like a duck in the rice paddy because I couldn't move one of my wounded soldiers 215 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,080 who had some of his organs had been hit in the stomach. 216 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:16,320 So I had to get them back in and put pressure bandages on those and put water on those two 217 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:22,320 and then I drug him into another trench line that the French had left there. 218 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:26,080 And kind of was in trying to figure out how am I going to carry this guy. 219 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:27,840 I can't throw him up over my shoulder. 220 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:33,520 So I decided that I would cradle him and run through the. 221 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,600 This is one of the times I was glad I was short because all I had to do is squat as 222 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:42,120 long as I could and run as fast as I could at that particular pace. 223 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:47,240 And all of a sudden out of nowhere, a thought came over me that it had been since I was 224 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:53,000 a small boy that I told my father that I loved him in the 50s and 60s. 225 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,680 We were not, we didn't do that. 226 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,920 We didn't tell men didn't tell men that they loved each other. 227 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:04,040 I knew my dad loved me and I'm sure you knew I loved him, but it just wasn't a social thing. 228 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:08,080 And so I had a conversation with the Lord and I said, Lord, if you get me out of this 229 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:15,720 hell on earth so that I can tell my father that I love him face to face again, I'll 230 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:20,320 be the best dad, I'll be the best coach and best teacher that I can possibly be. 231 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:22,760 This incredible peace came over me. 232 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:24,440 It wasn't in my bull park anymore. 233 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:28,000 And if I was to die in that battle, that was the Lord's will. 234 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:34,640 And if not, then I had to keep my bargain and ran to my father in the airport in March 235 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:39,000 of 70 and threw my arms around him, told him I loved him and he did the same like we've 236 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:43,560 been doing that for the 24 years that I had been alive at that time. 237 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:48,200 And that was our greeting and our departure, taught my children, my grandchildren, my athletes 238 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,040 and even the guys that I fought with. 239 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:53,720 We tell each other we love each other. 240 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:59,200 And the rest of that night, I had another couple major wounds and then they backed off 241 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:03,000 and they were chased off the hill. 242 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,520 Hunter first came in and helped us out. 243 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:06,520 Marines really came in. 244 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:12,200 Of course, by that time, the Navy had blown the heck out of that hill. 245 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,800 So, yep, we were pulled out after 48 hours. 246 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:22,680 Well, and I want to give one more little fact and we'll move on here. 247 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:28,920 And veteran radio listeners were talking to Jim Doc McClung who received the Medal of 248 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:34,240 Honor from President Trump in May of 2017. 249 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,960 But on the night of May 14th, 1968. 250 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:38,960 In July. 251 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:39,960 In July of 2017. 252 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:40,960 I'm sorry, July. 253 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:41,960 I received them. 254 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:43,560 Yeah, that's right. 255 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:52,080 But going backwards to the battle on May 14th of 1968, one of the problems in any kind of 256 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:56,640 extended encounter is you run out of supplies. 257 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:05,840 And naturally, your platoons did both food ammunition and medical supplies. 258 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:12,240 You volunteered to hold a blinking light in an open area as a marker for a nighttime resupply 259 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,480 drop. 260 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:21,080 And this is while folks are, you know, the NVG is shooting at you, but the importance 261 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,240 of that mission couldn't be underestimated. 262 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:31,480 Jim, as you're raising your hand or saying, I'll go do it, as the only medic that's left, 263 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:33,200 what's going through your mind? 264 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:37,240 Well, I, I, no, nobody jumped up and I knew how important it was. 265 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:38,520 We needed more ammunition. 266 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:44,320 So I just, I just jumped up and went out there and crawled out there, so to speak, and was 267 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:48,520 in a prone position and you're firing our RPG over the top. 268 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:50,920 I mean, but their big problem was they were too close. 269 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,840 They were, unless they did a direct hit on me, and that would have been the end of the 270 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:55,840 world for me. 271 00:19:55,840 --> 00:20:00,000 But they were also, yeah, they were shooting at that blinking light. 272 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,600 And the biggest thing that I thought about was while I was laying there, wait a minute, 273 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,920 if they hit this light down here, that ammunition is going to be heavy. 274 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:12,520 It's in crates and I'm going to be dead anyway, but we needed it that much and they never 275 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:13,720 got it in. 276 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,120 The pilot called back after he retreated. 277 00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:22,080 He couldn't get close enough to us and said he had 27 bullet holes in his, his helicopter. 278 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:27,440 That's what we found out later on that he had 27 holes in his and nobody in his helicopter 279 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:28,440 got hit. 280 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:29,520 That's the amazing thing. 281 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:35,320 So we were down, I know when the battle was over, I was down to a half of my magazine, 282 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:39,600 which is about not anywhere from nine to 10 bullets. 283 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:41,040 We had passed it down the line. 284 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:46,160 If we got overran to save one bullet for yourself, we were not going to get captured. 285 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,320 And that's, that's pretty amazing when you think about that. 286 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:54,800 That's almost, it's hard to even imagine that any, any group of individuals would be in 287 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,320 that predicament, but that's where we were at the time. 288 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:07,680 And we were rationing and the head, head platoon, of course, what they call a CP main platoon, 289 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:12,000 they were sending their ammunition out to us because they were back there calling in, 290 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,680 you know, help and they didn't need their ammo. 291 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:19,200 We had them as protected as we possibly could, could make it for them. 292 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:27,200 Now, we get to the next morning, May 15th, you actually get knocked out by an RPG. 293 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:35,080 A grenade shot into the area, I guess, and, and yet continue to after that come back and 294 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,560 treat casualties. 295 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:45,480 Tell us how this battle comes to a conclusion and the rest of your time in Vietnam. 296 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:50,320 How this, this battle comes to a conclusion. 297 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:54,560 Yeah, on the 15th, the day of May 15th. 298 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,200 Well, the NBA moved off the hill. 299 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:04,160 And so we were back to, you know, really well protected too. 300 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:10,320 We got the 101st Airborne in there and the Marines are flying over the top in the Air 301 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:17,400 Force and again, the Navy is at, at the position to shoot in if we needed, but I guess got 302 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,320 calm and they were gone. 303 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,720 It was, it was going like from night to day. 304 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:28,120 It was just calm and, and I actually had not had anything to eat and drink and you can 305 00:22:28,120 --> 00:22:37,080 imagine the effort that I had put to carry people and to work on other people and to, 306 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:38,200 you know, still fight. 307 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,240 I was one of the fighting men too. 308 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:46,600 Vietnam was first time medics carried weapons and so I had my M16 and was fighting also 309 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:52,480 and I, I kind of collapsed after we got everybody on helicopter and the next thing I woke up 310 00:22:52,480 --> 00:23:00,080 in an A station and they, then they took the IVs out and I went back to my unit after they 311 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,040 took the IVs out. 312 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:11,720 So this battle is in May of 1969, a few months, months after you start in Vietnam, you stay 313 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:16,240 in Vietnam till March of 1970. 314 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:24,400 And then get out of the service and have an amazingly productive career as a teacher and 315 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,160 a coach and a husband. 316 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,960 Tell us a little bit about your post service activity. 317 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:35,760 Well, first of all, let me remind you that I did have a conversation with my Lord and 318 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:41,440 I told him that if he kept his end of the bargain, I would do my best and there I carried 319 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:45,040 on the theme of my father, never do anything halfway. 320 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:52,520 I was extremely grateful for having survived that, that year in Vietnam. 321 00:23:52,520 --> 00:24:00,440 So you know, to be able to do what I wanted to do and loved and to be around athletes 322 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:06,240 and to be involved in education where I can prepare kids for a later in life. 323 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:11,200 And that was my goal was to prepare kids for their own Vietnam. 324 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:16,800 Their own Vietnam might be a good friend moving away or the girl that they want to marry saying 325 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:22,400 no or their house burning down or losing a job or not getting a job, whatever that is, 326 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,400 their parents passing away. 327 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:32,080 I wanted to prepare them for their Vietnam like I had been prepared for mine. 328 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,560 And so first of all, I loved what I did. 329 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:39,680 And second of all, I put as much effort into that and I was very busy. 330 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,240 I was busier than most people get. 331 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:47,000 Yeah, coaching three sports. 332 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:52,080 And one of those sports also I coached in the summer, of course, I coached 35 American 333 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:53,960 Legion teams in the summer. 334 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:59,120 I ran the summer recreation program, the men's and women's softball programs. 335 00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:00,720 I played on a team. 336 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,520 I've coached 22 league teams and 13 junior wrestling programs. 337 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:12,920 So part of that was I realized now and I realized that after I retired and things started flooding 338 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,840 in that I had, I had become a workaholic. 339 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,000 So I didn't think about those things that I saw Vietnam. 340 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,480 They started flooding in and now I realized that I kept myself busy. 341 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,000 So I didn't think about those things. 342 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:36,120 And so I was fortunate enough to come right back to where they had hoped to be in this 343 00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:37,120 area. 344 00:25:37,120 --> 00:25:40,840 And I had my South Haven, Michigan doesn't even know the offers that I had had along 345 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:45,040 the way, but I enjoyed where I was and the kids that I was raising. 346 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:49,520 And of course, after a while, you're coaching kids of kids that you originally coach. 347 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:55,360 And then in the end, I was coaching grandkids of kids that I originally coached in the beginning. 348 00:25:55,360 --> 00:26:00,120 So well, it was, as they say, it was amazing career in coaching. 349 00:26:00,120 --> 00:26:05,280 And a testament to that is that you've been inducted into the Michigan High School Baseball 350 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:11,520 Coaches Association Hall of Fame and the Michigan High School Coaches Hall of Fame and the Michigan 351 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:18,600 High School Football Coaches Association Hall of Fame, you know, honors delivered by your 352 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:24,720 peers to the work, really a body of work over decades. 353 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,600 And let me turn that concept over. 354 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:35,400 In June, sir, I was inducted into the National Wrestling Hall of Fame in Stillwater, Oklahoma. 355 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:39,560 That was another humbling experience for me, too. 356 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:44,040 And it's interesting to say, well, I got myself extra busy, so I didn't have to think about 357 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:48,120 some of the some of the things I had to see and do in Vietnam. 358 00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:56,280 And I think a lot of people find that keeping active keeps some of those demons away. 359 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,760 But also, it's great to be recognized by your peers. 360 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:03,560 And I guess that's I want to use this as the transition to talk a little bit about that 361 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:09,160 portion of the Medal of Honor that only a recipient knows about. 362 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,640 And Jim, we talked about this a little earlier. 363 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:19,680 It's a whole process for the Medal of Honor to be awarded. 364 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,480 Can you talk a little bit about that, that back end piece? 365 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,560 We all see the press coverage on the day it happens. 366 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,640 But there are years in front of that. 367 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,360 Tell us a little bit about that. 368 00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:35,560 Well, four months after the battle, my lieutenant, my platoon lieutenant came to me and said, 369 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,480 Jeff, doc, he said to me, he says, I put you in for the Distainment Service Cross. 370 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,560 And they told me you were nothing but a PFC and they don't get that. 371 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:43,560 Who told him that? 372 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:44,560 I do not know. 373 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:45,560 And I don't care. 374 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:50,600 And I looked at him and I said, and he said, they told me put you in for the Bronze Star, 375 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:51,600 which he did. 376 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,320 And it went right through with me for Valor. 377 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,200 I looked at him and said, sir, I'm not here to get any medals. 378 00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:00,680 And I just want to get home and be a teacher, coach, and a dad. 379 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:06,400 And then in 2009, he went back over to Distinguished Service Cross, took him six years and four 380 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:12,720 months to get it from the Human Relations Committee into the Army Board of Decorations 381 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,960 and Awards, which is where it has to be to really start. 382 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:23,200 So it really took him six years and four months doing a stack of assignments, paperwork about 383 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,040 10 foot or 10 foot. 384 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,480 Yeah, it seemed like 10 foot, 10 inches tall. 385 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:35,880 And nine of my men had contacted him and written eyewitness letters, notarized eyewitness letters. 386 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:40,960 So it had finally gotten into the Army Board of Decorations and Awards. 387 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:45,040 That's in 2015. 388 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,040 Remember he started in 2009. 389 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:55,840 And 2016, exactly a year later, August 2016, the Lieutenant and I had heard nothing for 390 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:57,920 a year. 391 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:04,720 And so we did inquire Debbie Stabenow's office because she was now the person that was my 392 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,520 representative. 393 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:11,720 And they called back the next day on August 13, 2016 to tell us that it was now at the 394 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,840 Pentagon. 395 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:18,280 I get a call October from Debbie Stabenow. 396 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:24,360 And I had declined her call because I didn't recognize the phone number. 397 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:29,520 And so she left a message and the message went like this, hi Jim. 398 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:30,520 This is Debbie Stabenow. 399 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,520 This is October of 2016. 400 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:37,400 She said, Debbie Stabenow, Senator Debbie Stabenow, and you know, we've been trying 401 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,120 to get you recognized for your heroism in Vietnam. 402 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:46,560 And the good news is it came across the desk of our Secretary of Defense, Ashton Carter. 403 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:52,440 And he looked at the material the Lieutenant had handed in and he read the nine eyewitness 404 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:53,440 letters. 405 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,560 And you couldn't give me a medal high enough to replace those letters. 406 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,360 They said I did my job. 407 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,880 And he said the distinguished service cross was not high enough. 408 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:06,800 So the Secretary of Defense had recommended me for the congressional medal of honor. 409 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:11,840 We weren't still out of the woods, she said, because that has to be given within five years 410 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:16,920 of the action and it had been 47 years at that particular time. 411 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:24,000 So Debbie Stabenow and Gary Peters combined to write a bill that had to be passed in the 412 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,240 House. 413 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:30,360 And Representative Upton got it passed in the House and then on December the 8th it was 414 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:35,640 passed in the Senate, 92 to 7. 415 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:40,680 And Obama signed it on the 23rd of December 2016. 416 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,520 The Secretary of the Army has to sign it too. 417 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:49,200 And he signed it on 27th and it wasn't until five months later then that my wife and I 418 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:55,000 received a call at home from President Trump, who had taken over a course in January to 419 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,080 tell us that he was going to award it. 420 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:02,320 But we had to be quiet until they found the date and they did find the date. 421 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:07,280 Two weeks later they called it, called me, actually it was Colonel Walters out of the 422 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,640 Pentagon and she said Jim in five minutes. 423 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,720 It was five minutes to allow and she said five minutes to the United States of America 424 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,960 and the world will know that James C. McClellan is going to receive the congressional medal 425 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,040 of honor on the 31st of July. 426 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:25,640 So I thanked her and I hung up and called my wife and I said, now watch the news I'm 427 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,120 about to tee off. 428 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:34,560 And she said they tweeted it at first and then all of the new stations picked it up. 429 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:40,400 And two guys that I was coughing with that day, I had coached with for 40 years and they 430 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,520 got to hear for the first time, they were surprised because I had never talked about 431 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,960 this of course, and they got to hear for the first time that I was, they thought I was 432 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:55,040 spoofing them at first, but they heard that on that day that I was going to receive the 433 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,680 medal of honor and they were both at the ceremony by the way. 434 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:04,160 My son was called, my son's a Lieutenant Detective with the Michigan State Police, his name is 435 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:11,680 James Bradley McClellan and he spent 25 years with him up to this point and though two years 436 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:17,360 ago he got a call in the evening of the day that I had received the medal and it was one 437 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:23,000 of his colleagues and his colleague said, Jamie, I saw your father get the medal of honor from 438 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:27,800 President Trump today said, when did you first hear this story? 439 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,920 And Jamie said today, the same time you did. 440 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:36,720 Well as you said, you don't, this, your action in Vietnam was not to receive any medal or 441 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:37,720 recognition. 442 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,760 You know, it was to take care of the men. 443 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:41,760 Yeah. 444 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:47,040 Well, when you, you know, when you, when you're drafted and I was a patriotic lad and of 445 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:53,160 course I didn't volunteer to go in, but I didn't run after they drafted me. 446 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:58,800 Your first mission is to serve your country and, you know, make your family proud that 447 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:00,120 you served as an American. 448 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:07,520 But once you get there, sir, it's just about how many of us together as brothers and fighting 449 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:12,360 brothers in arms, fighting men that we could get out of there alive ourselves, you know, 450 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,840 we're concentrating on survival. 451 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,280 I'm very proud to be a Vietnam veteran. 452 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,160 We did win the war. 453 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,520 That's another story that I can back up. 454 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:28,560 Professor Pike, who's a student of Vietnam, researcher of Vietnam, where he died in 2006 455 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,240 and he said, we did not lose a major battle of any consequence. 456 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:39,240 And it was a defeat for the NBA and the VC in 1973 when the Americans moved out. 457 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,360 The NBA had been defeated. 458 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,800 Many, many, many more killed than we did, than we had killed. 459 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:50,240 And, and, and of course people will argue that it's the truth. 460 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:56,000 The men of Vietnam, the fighting men of Vietnam could be proud that they kept communism out 461 00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:00,640 of all the countries from Singapore down to the Philippines because they didn't want to 462 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,760 mess anymore with the United States fighting man. 463 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:05,600 They did not attack those countries. 464 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:06,600 Amen. 465 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:13,680 We're talking to Jim McLuhan, a recipient of the Medal of Honor for his action in Vietnam. 466 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:15,920 Jim, let me back up though. 467 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:22,760 I want you to give talk a little bit about the lieutenant that you served under who initially 468 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:28,000 put you in for the Distinguished Service Cross and then ultimately, you know, 40 some years 469 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:35,480 later said, this still doesn't sit right with me and spent six years working on this. 470 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:41,960 Yeah, he said in his letter that he wrote, I didn't know this, but he got the silver 471 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:42,960 star. 472 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:48,920 He got the silver star and Lieutenant Clark did not shoot one bullet in that hole. 473 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,480 You know, he was with the CP and doing what it was he had to do. 474 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:57,280 And he said, you know, those guys out front that were keeping us protected and keeping 475 00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,280 the enemy from overrunning us should have got the silver star. 476 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:10,760 And he had pretty much put, he put the war behind and I'm extremely grateful to him for 477 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:17,480 wanting to do this and then sticking in there that long and telling him they made him do 478 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:23,600 one particular thing and that was the chain of command, a DD 638 where he has to get the 479 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:29,640 endorsement of everybody up the chain and he has to send that to everyone personally. 480 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:33,280 So it was going back and forth, you know, back to him and then to the battalion back 481 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,440 to him to the brigade back to him. 482 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:39,200 It took him four years to get that whole particular thing done. 483 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,720 They made him do it three times. 484 00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:50,440 And yeah, for him to stick in there and for my men to not forget what we had done together 485 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:56,480 and you know, Hatton, one of the machine gunners tried to tackle me twice the first day. 486 00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:02,920 He was afraid I'd get killed going back into the kill zone and I wouldn't be around for 487 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,120 him, you know, to be saved by myself. 488 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:10,040 So they were very protective of me. 489 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:15,920 And by the way, something that a lot of people may not know, Daniel Shea was the only other 490 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:21,800 medic to last in the second day and he was killed going out about his fourth time and 491 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,440 I actually brought his body back in. 492 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:31,520 And he received the Congressional Medal of Honor posthumously as mother received it 493 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,520 in 1970 from Nixon. 494 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:43,280 So two medics, this is unprecedented as far as I know, I've tried to find any other situation 495 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:44,400 in which this occurred. 496 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:49,000 Two medics, same battle, same company received the Congressional Medal of Honor. 497 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,000 That's how brutal that battle was. 498 00:36:52,000 --> 00:37:00,080 It certainly puts things in context and it's, again, I want to acknowledge the stick-toupness 499 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:09,440 of Lieutenant Clark to make sure that this injustice which happened right afterwards 500 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:16,760 got corrected even though it took 47 years or so to get it corrected. 501 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,600 If he didn't do that, we wouldn't be talking, right? 502 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:20,600 That's how this works. 503 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:28,160 Absolutely, we wouldn't be talking and I would still be, after 48 years I had the Bronze 504 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:33,480 Star and it would be 50 years now that I'd have the Bronze Star and not the Medal of 505 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:34,480 Honor. 506 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:41,440 And to put other things into perspective, sir, the two most important moments during 507 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:48,720 the two days that I was receiving recognition, the two favorite moments for me was when one 508 00:37:48,720 --> 00:37:53,960 of my machine gunners finally got his purple heart 48 years later and it was pinned on 509 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,800 him in front of his three daughters by a four-star general. 510 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:09,560 They finally righted that and then when my men were asked to stand, 10 of those men from 511 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:14,960 my company were there in the ceremony, five of them I had saved in the battle and they 512 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,920 were asked to stand and they finally got to recognition. 513 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:22,720 One of those men's wife told a friend of mine who sat next to her, she was in tears and 514 00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:30,760 he asked it what was wrong and put his arm around and she said 50 years ago or 48 years 515 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:35,160 ago my husband tried to tell some of his friends about this battle and they told him he was 516 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:36,560 full of shit. 517 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:44,040 She said today, they know he wasn't full of shit, that he really had experienced something 518 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:52,480 that is unbelievable and you wouldn't believe it if you told a common person that they wouldn't 519 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:53,480 believe it. 520 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,480 It was that horrendous. 521 00:38:55,480 --> 00:39:02,800 Yeah, absolutely and it also fixes some of the injustices that our Vietnam veterans had 522 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:11,880 to go through of shame and of being involved in the war and how America treated its returning 523 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:13,200 Vietnam vets. 524 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:19,920 So you can feel her pain. 525 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:20,920 Her pain. 526 00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:22,000 Exactly, exactly Jim. 527 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:23,320 Yeah, her pain. 528 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:28,880 I want to bring one more aspect to this and we've run longer than we said we were going 529 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:37,000 to but you knew I was going to do that anyway and I want to talk about what I've referred 530 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:42,920 to as the responsibility of being a Medal of Honor recipient. 531 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:50,360 As you reflect back now over a couple of years, can you talk to us about how you view and 532 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,800 have internalized that responsibility? 533 00:39:52,800 --> 00:40:00,760 Yeah, well there's only 710 live in the United States of America that really puts a lot of 534 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:09,480 responsibility on the 7171 but there's only about 30 of us that really do go out and go 535 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:18,640 to all these different places to speak and to be recognized sometimes and kind of be highlighted 536 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:22,400 so to speak and it is a very heavy response. 537 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:28,160 I was home four days in March and on those four days I did my laundry and repack to go 538 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:29,760 to the next event. 539 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,320 I just got back yesterday. 540 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:38,360 I was in West Virginia yesterday to get home for this interview today but I did get 18 541 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:46,840 to this morning, 18-year-old golfing but you see I will go to three or four more major 542 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,320 events. 543 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:57,200 Next week I'll be in Kentucky for a golfing put together by Woody Williams who uses the 544 00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:04,920 money to put together Gold Star family monuments and then I'll be going to Alaska and from 545 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:10,480 Alaska down to California and then finally back home to be able to go over to Chicago 546 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:18,800 to the 196 by annual convention where I'm a keynote speaker then back home down to Indian 547 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:24,680 apolis, Indiana where I'll be the keynote speaker at the National American Legion convention 548 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:29,680 and then I still have one more thing I don't know exactly what the oh we're going to get 549 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:36,880 together as many of us as we can because this is the 50th reunion of the battle of the 1969 550 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:37,880 battle. 551 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:42,600 We're going to try to get together here in South Haven and just spend some time together 552 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:46,600 and have a wonderful time as brothers. 553 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,880 But it's more than just an active schedule. 554 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:59,640 As a Medal of Honor recipient you really become the embodiment of military valor that 555 00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:03,880 not only other veterans but civilians and kids. 556 00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:07,280 Talk to us about how you received out there. 557 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:14,800 Yeah that is tough for us because we just considered we did our duty and my wife has 558 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:19,360 pointed out you know every once in a while that Jim you need to recognize that you really 559 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:27,520 are a hero or what you did was heroic and that there's young people out there and other 560 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:32,000 people that need to know that there are those kinds of people in this world. 561 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:39,320 And we have what's called the congressional Medal of Honor character development program 562 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:45,120 that goes at the elementary, middle school and high school level. 563 00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:51,280 And so we train teachers can be trained free they get a scholarship to be trained then 564 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,360 the material is all free. 565 00:42:53,360 --> 00:43:00,040 So what we really want to do yeah your responsibility is to make these children understand and everybody 566 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:05,400 else that don't quite understand yet that freedom isn't free. 567 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:09,600 And I often use those that didn't make it home as the example. 568 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:11,560 They really gave up two lives. 569 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,920 They gave up the life that they were living when they were killed in action and then they 570 00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:17,920 gave us a life they never got to live. 571 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:23,000 They never got to meet their soulmate, marry her and see the birth of a child and maybe 572 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:29,000 coach that child and be at that child's graduation and maybe walk that baby girl that was a baby 573 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:34,640 at one time and now she's a grown woman walk her down the aisle and have that father's 574 00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:41,000 daughter dance at the ceremony afterwards and every holiday, every anniversary and every 575 00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,320 family gathering they gave that up. 576 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:45,360 So they gave up two lives. 577 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:52,520 I want people to realize that those 18, 19 and 20 year old men the flip side of my job 578 00:43:52,520 --> 00:44:03,840 is not saving but watching men say their last words and watching them take their last breath. 579 00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:10,800 They gave up two lives so that we can have the one that we're living now. 580 00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:17,260 That's the responsibility that we feel and we know who the real heroes are. 581 00:44:17,260 --> 00:44:19,640 Those men are the real heroes. 582 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:27,440 And though we will always recognize them as the men that gave up something we didn't have 583 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,640 to give up and we survived. 584 00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:38,920 Well, I think these stories and talking with Medal of Honor recipients helps us realize 585 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:44,680 as you mentioned sort of heroic actions by those who lost their life on the battlefield 586 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:50,400 as well as those of you who have been awarded this honor. 587 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:57,720 And in a world that is so flaky and Twitter and Facebook and social media and movies, 588 00:44:57,720 --> 00:45:05,120 I think it's easy for kids in particular maybe to lose sight of what real values are, what 589 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:13,320 real heroism is as compared to what it looks like on a graphic game screen on your computer. 590 00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:18,560 So I think the work that you and the 30 active Medal of Honor recipients are doing is really 591 00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:25,640 important and we're glad that you had some time to share it with Veterans Radio today, 592 00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:26,640 Jim. 593 00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:32,720 Yeah, and of course all Veterans who have been out there fighting for freedom, the war 594 00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:35,040 does not lead them when they come home. 595 00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:41,680 So once we've had that experience, it becomes a part of the rest of our lives. 596 00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:49,840 And we need to reach out to those 22 that are dying each day of suicide because they 597 00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:58,480 are having problems internally and psychologically with what they were kind of forced into at 598 00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,760 times to fight for freedom. 599 00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:08,280 Well we want to thank Jim McLuhan, Army Veteran Medal of Honor recipient for taking some time 600 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:15,040 out of his busy schedule to talk to Veterans Radio today about his experiences. 601 00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:20,720 We're glad you got 18 holes in today, Jim, in that you played pretty well. 602 00:46:20,720 --> 00:46:22,880 And thanks for doing this. 603 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:24,040 Well I'd like to thank you. 604 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:29,600 I'd like to thank you and all of those radio stations out there, but thank you personally 605 00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:37,800 for what you do, Jim, because this is another avenue of helping those that can't go to the 606 00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:44,920 events that we're at or they don't get to hear from those who have been right out there. 607 00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:50,360 You're taking these across the air to people that may not have the opportunity to be educated 608 00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:51,360 by us. 609 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:58,440 Well, we're glad to bring this to this wider audience, Jim, and thank you again for being 610 00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,000 on Veterans Radio today. 611 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,000 God bless you, Jim. 612 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,920 And I want to thank everybody for listening to Veterans Radio today. 613 00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:08,200 I am Jim Fawcone. 614 00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:09,800 It's been a pleasure to be your host. 615 00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:14,520 I'm a Veterans Disability lawyer at Legal Help for Veterans, and you can reach us at 616 00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:22,120 800-6934800 or legalhelpforveterans.com on the web. 617 00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:27,000 You can follow Veterans Radio on Facebook and listen to its podcasts and internet radio 618 00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:31,080 shows by going to veteransradio.net. 619 00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:34,960 And until next time, you are dismissed. 620 00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:38,760 If you have a VA claim denied by the Board of Veterans Appeals, contact Legal Help for 621 00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:43,000 Veterans at 1-800-6934800. 622 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:47,000 They're experts in handling cases before the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims. 623 00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,960 Their number again, 1-800-6934800. 624 00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:52,760 Veterans Radio needs you. 625 00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:58,640 If you like our shows that are informative, surprising stories, and relevant information 626 00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:03,960 on what's happening at the VA and the military, we'd like your support, individual support 627 00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:11,840 of $5 to $50 a month, or corporate sponsorship of $1,000 to $10,000, would be welcomed. 628 00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:18,320 You can go to veteransradio.net, click on the Sponsorship or Support tab, pay online, 629 00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:35,360 and keep Veterans Radio on the air.