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All across America and around the world, this is Veterans Radio.

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This is Veterans Radio.

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Welcome to Veterans Radio.

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I am Jim Fossone.

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I'm the officer of the deck today.

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We've got some great programs for you.

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I think you'll find very interesting.

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you didn't know before by going to veteransradio.net.

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And before we get started, we want to thank our sponsors.

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First up, we want to thank National Veteran Business Development Council, NVBDC.org.

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VetBiz Central covers Michigan, Indiana, and Ohio, and can be reached at vetbizbicentral.org.

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Let's move on to our programs.

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We want to welcome to Veterans Radio today James Carl Nelson, who's an author and historian,

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and we're going to talk about his new book, The York Patrol.

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Jim, welcome to Veterans Radio.

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Thanks very much for having me.

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No, it's great to have you on.

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We have a certain saucepot in our heart for Melavon or recipients.

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Every now and again, it's good to reach back because there's so many of these.

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This is, we're going to talk about the real story of Elvin York and the unsung heroes

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who made him World War I's most famous soldier.

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This is one of those things that people probably have forgotten over time, but we're going

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to mention a few things and they go, oh yeah, I remember that.

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It starts with people remembering the movie.

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The Sergeant York movie with the Cary Grant.

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Walter Mato.

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Hollywood names that have now passed on.

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But actually it was Gary Cooper.

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It was Gary Cooper.

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Yeah.

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The Academy Award for that.

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These are names that people have sort of forgotten and along the way they've forgotten who Elvin

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York was.

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So let's start with, tell us the background of Elvin York.

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Well, he was, you know, really, he was the, I hate to say it, but you know, a backwards

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Tennessee hit really and his family had been in Centrist County, Tennessee, in Northeastern

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Tennessee for some generations and he had basically, he added all together, he had about

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two years of proper schooling.

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He was kind of a hellraiser in his early days.

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Went out and drank and got in fights and shouted people and then he had to come to Jesus'

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moment and found the Lord and with the ages of a local pastor, sort of a fundamentalist

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church there.

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And he went on the straight and narrow.

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And then in 1917, his draft number came up and so he was shipped to Camp Gordon in Georgia.

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And he really wrestled with the issue of having, he might have to kill a person, another man.

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If he goes in the army and goes to France in fights.

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And he really wrestled with it.

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He wasn't a real complicated guy, but this is one thing.

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I mean, that's like the first commandment, thou shalt not kill.

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And so they were really actually pretty nice to him concerning was the army back in 1917.

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They let him, they tried to hash it out with them as commanding officers, trading verses

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back and forth about why he should pick up a gun and why he shouldn't.

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They let him go home for 10 days to think about it and he walked in the mountains.

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And finally, you know, he was kind of painted as a conscientious objector, which wasn't

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really true, but that's his pastor, Rosie or Pike, tried to have him labeled such or

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or named such in some letters that he sent.

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York always said he wasn't that he just wanted to know what the fighting was all about.

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So he finally got convinced or convinced himself that it would be okay for him to pick up a

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weapon and use it against fellow man for a greater good, whatever you want to call it.

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And so he went back to camp Gordon and then got shipped overseas with the 82nd Division.

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Well, it's an it this early years is sort of interesting because as you say, he was

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a backwoods, Tennessee, grew up in the Hala Hick.

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But it also meant he had a certain skill set that he developed over time that translated

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pretty well to the army, didn't it?

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Yeah.

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Well, his father was quite a hunter and he always took Alvin out hunting, whatever, birds,

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bear, whatever.

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So yeah, he was really adept with the rifle, you know, sort of a probably a musket style

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rifle.

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So he became a good shot, legendarily good shot.

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I mean, I know they played that up in the movie big time.

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He shoots that head off a turkey, but they did have like turkey shoots and things like

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that where you would, you know, win money or win a bird or something if you got the best

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shot on it.

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So yeah, that was a skill set.

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And also just being a Roman the Woods, you know, being at home in the woods, hunting,

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trapping, whatever it was, that certainly came into play in France because it went over

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some pretty rough ground in that fight, especially when they went into the Argonne Forest where

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he performed his famous deed.

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And one of the things that again, it's kind of easy to forget about what World War One

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was really like.

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You know, those aren't the current movies that's not currently in the media.

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But these were boys, many of them had not been, you know, 100 miles from their hometown

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and they find themselves moving around the United States, being put on a ship and sent

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over to England and then over to Europe.

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This was a real awakening for these guys, wasn't it?

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For the Americans, you know, my grandfather was a Swedish immigrant who got drafted and

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went back to France and got shot at Swanson.

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So for him, it was like he's going back.

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He's a little more worldly, came from Sweden.

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But for somebody like, yeah, like Alvin York, he'd never left Tennessee.

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And so when he went to Camp Corden, this is the first time he'd ever really been out of

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the county.

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And so, yeah, to go to France and first to England, take the train, go to Hoboken, see

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New York City, go across, you know, then you go across England.

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It's not like they sent them anybody right to Paris, but he eventually got to Paris.

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And in York's case, it really did open his eyes.

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He saw, you know, big cities and he saw different kinds of people and it widened his mind to

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a large degree so that when he got back to the States, he resolved to improve the lives

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of the people in this backwards community.

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He eliminated one of both schools, get the kids educated, you know, just because he had

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seen that in France and in England, you know.

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And in World War I in particular was a part, you know, as all wars are a brutal war.

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Yeah, it was, you know, it was classic, the trenches, sending, you know, battalions on

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full frontal charges against machine gun positions.

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It was sort of like life was very cheap on all sides.

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And you know, the United States didn't get in until April of 1917.

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Didn't really get fighting until really, you know, April or May of 1918.

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But you know, they lost 53,000 men killed in action or to wounds.

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Total 116,000 men died in six months.

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If you multiply that times eight, it would have been a pretty staggering number, probably

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close to a million casualties.

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But yeah, it was a tough war and Germany was, until the end, a tough foe.

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And you mentioned it, it was these frontal attacks.

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This isn't where, you know, you send in the bombers to soften up the hillside.

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This was a different war and that sort of sets up this push through the Argonne forest

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in, I guess I'll call it, Northeast France, what the Western front that results in Elvin

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York's, you know, Day of Infamy.

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He's been in Europe for about, what, four or five months at that point.

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They're not really all that battle tested.

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Walk us through what happens with York's patrol and how they come to this unique situation.

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Yeah, in a larger context, Argonne offensive pushed off on, I think, September 25th, 1918,

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and they were jumping off, heading north, nine American divisions against the German

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defenders.

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And in the sector that York wound up in, it started out with a 35th division and they

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made good progress then got stymied at a village called Ebsermott, just south of the Romaine

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Hills.

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The first division took over, they were able to take Hill 240, keep pushing a little bit

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more, but then they got stymied by artillery from across the air river to the northwest

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that halted their progress.

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So a plan was devised.

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It was a pretty risky plan, too, to send another division below the first division west and

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above the 28th division that was moving up the west side of the air.

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And so they did this maneuver where they just sent them straight west across the air, started

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trying to clean out the hills of Corne and Chateau-Shearie, and they made some fairly

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decent progress.

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The first battalion of the 328th regiment and the 327th to the north, but it was bitter

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fighting.

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And on the morning of October 8th, they decided to send in the second battalion of the 328th

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regiment, and that is Alvin York's battalion, and continued to push west.

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They're trying to reach this railroad track called the Dachauville Railroad that supplied

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that entire area, the German army in that area.

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Another complicating fact, it was further to the west in the 77th division sector, there

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was the famous Lost Battalion, who were surrounded by Germans.

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They had been cut off from the rest of their men, and they were being attacked with the

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flamethrowers and grenades, and they were in terrible straits.

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So part of the move was also intended to alleviate the pressure around the Lost Battalion.

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So 6 a.m. on October 8th in the morning, the second battalion of 328th picks up the fight

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west.

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They run into a horrendous machine gun fire coming from the front and from their left.

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The platoon that York and his mates were in, its leader, Kirby Stewart, was killed during

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the advance.

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And finally, Sergeant Harry Parsons takes over, and he gathers Bernard Early, the sergeant

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of this squad, what do you want to call it, and he instructs them to go to the left over

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a hill and try to reduce the machine guns on the left, it's causing so much damage.

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And so there were 17 men, and York was one of them, he was a squad leader, one of four,

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and they went up this hill, back down around, they didn't even really know where they were.

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Eventually they realized they were behind the German lines, and they encountered a couple

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of German medics at a stream.

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They fired at them, the medics took off running, and basically led them right to this group

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of German soldiers who were lolling about eating breakfast preparation for going into

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battle.

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This is almost accidental, isn't it?

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It is they get behind enemy lines and stumble on this encampment of guys who weren't prepared

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to fight, as you say, it was breakfast time.

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It was mutual surprise.

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I would say, you know, the Americans were surprised, the Germans were surprised, the

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Germans actually thought they were British soldiers.

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I don't think the Germans really, even at that point, realized the Americans were coming

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in full force at them.

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But yeah, so they had laid their weapons aside.

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To some of the Americans in the patrol, they started firing.

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The Germans have no idea how big a force this is, they can follow, they know it's hundreds

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of people.

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Bernard Early instructs them to surrender, the German commander does, he speaks English

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because he's spent some time in the States.

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And so the set-tells of men in the patrol to go start taking the weapons from the Germans

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and lining them up to get them out of there.

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And unknown on a ridge just above them in the woods, the Germans who had been firing

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out of open plain on Hill 223 at the advancing Americans, turned the guns around and fired

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down, hitting some of the Germans, killing instantly six members of the patrol.

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It was kind of a, I mean, they, you know, you could say they should have known better,

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they should have reconnoitred better, but I think everything happened really quickly.

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Three men were also wounded Bernard Early, Otis Merit, you and Muzzy.

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And so, what do the men do?

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The Germans hit the ground, the men are still there guarding them basically.

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Everybody hits the ground and tries to stay out of sight.

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I mean, they're just eating dirt, you know, and New York wound up in a favorable position,

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sort of in the center and a little forward and was protected by some brush and trees

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and also a gaggle of German soldiers that he had been guarding.

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So he used them as cover and he would say that whenever he saw a German machine gunner

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or whatever pop up his head up, he just touched him off with his rifle first.

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It's said he killed 20, 25, I know some of the other men were also firing Percy Beardsley,

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we had this French light machine gun called a Shosho, which is usually handled by three

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men.

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He also said he fired his pistol.

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We still don't know exactly how many, but the newman of the fight, the end of the fight

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is when this lieutenant Fritz Endres gathers six of his men and comes streaming down the

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hill in a bayonet charge basically, pretty much right for York's position.

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And he takes out his pistol and he begins firing and he starts with the guys at the back so

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that they fired the guys in the front, they know to hit the ground because they could

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see the guys fall, start shooting from left to right at the guys coming down the hill

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and he his last shot mortally wounds Fritz Endres, shot in the stomach.

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And at that point the German commander, who meanwhile had his own pistol and was trying

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to shoot York and missed all six shots, finally says, you know, comes up to York, you know,

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if you stop shooting, I'll surrender.

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And York says, okay.

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And he says, what are you guys English?

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He says, no, American.

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He goes, oh my God, you know.

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And so, you know, his name was a Bulmer and Kurt Bulmer.

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He was Kurt Bulmer.

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And anyway, he didn't know how many Americans were there.

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So he surrendered about 90 of his men.

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And once again, they start, you know, taking weapons, lining them up, and then they start

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marching them out.

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And this is the, you know, this all happens in the matter of, you know, what, 15 minutes

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or something.

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10, 15, yeah, it's really a quick event, which many firefights are, particularly at that

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point in time.

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And because Lieutenant Bulmer surrenders, not knowing how big a group of Americans are

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surrounding them, you know, 90, 100 people get captured.

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And York is now in charge of the platoon and has to march these guys back to the American

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side and turn these guys all in.

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And one of the things, you know, the book is really well written and easy to read, The

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York Patrol, The Real Story of Elvin York, and the Unsung Heroes Who Made Him World War

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Once Most Famous Soldier by James Carl Nelson.

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And the maps are good to help you kind of understand what's going on.

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But from a historian's standpoint, the next part is what's fascinating, I think probably

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to the reader and maybe to you, about how this kind of gets the life of its own.

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He becomes put up for a distinguished service cross, okay, but then there's the media involvement,

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which back in the day people was newspapers and magazines, not the Internet.

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Talk us through how this kind of catches on and becomes this promotion of America's hero

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of World War One.

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Well, you know, work got around within army circles of what had happened when they marched

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these Germans back out on the plane to the 328th headquarters.

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And slowly we got around more and more when York and the others brought this big group

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of Germans and other Germans that had been captured by the rest of the company, G and

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Company E, were also added to the total, so it came to about 132 Germans.

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Marched them back to the headquarters of the 164th Brigade and its commander says, York,

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I heard you capture the whole German army and York says, no, I only got 132.

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Anyway, work gets around.

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And there was the biggest, the biggest impetus for his becoming a legend was a writer named

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George Patelow, who had been in France for about a year and a half and had written different

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stories about the First Division and then about Bellow Wood.

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He heads to France after the war was over, one more time he had gone to the US briefly

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for a visit.

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And he gets wind of the story and he basically gets, you know, who doesn't want somebody

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to be a hero under their command.

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By now, York already had been recommended for a Medal of Honor once they figured out

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the magnitude of his feet.

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And so he interviews York and other members of the patrol and writes the story for the

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Saturday Evening Post called the Second Elder Gives Battle, referring back to his Christian

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beliefs, his membership of the church.

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And that was a big splash.

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And that ran on April 26, 1919, before York even got back to the US.

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That got picked up by other newspapers.

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He became not just a national celebrity, but an international celebrity.

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I mean, he was one of the most famous people in the world at that point.

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And thoroughly, much of the rest of his life, he lived to be, I think, was about 76 when

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he died in 1964, started waning, slowly waning a little bit more.

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But he's always in the news.

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I mean, during World War II, somebody ghost-rided to the newspaper column for him.

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And then, of course, the movie came along in 1941.

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And there's a lot of patriotic stuff going on about the brewing World War II.

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But yeah, it really gave itself a life of its own.

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And York, though, he was delusional with movie offers, books, offers, all sorts of things.

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And for 10 years, he didn't do anything.

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He said the uniform's not for sale.

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But he wanted, he had this big idea to build schools in Fentress County.

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He was trying to raise money for that.

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He also had a local rotary club that gave him a farm and paid for only half of it.

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So he was left with this mortgage that he was basically going to be foreclosed upon.

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And he finally realized that he was terrible at the money, by the way.

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And finally realized maybe he should try to capitalize on his fame.

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There's nothing else to help his projects, these schools and things like that.

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Well, I think that's where, as we come up on time limits here, I want to point out a

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couple of things that I got out of reading the book.

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And I recommend it to everybody.

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You point out that he becomes the hero, and I'm quoting from the book that says, York

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happened to ride into a fuller fame than most of his brother, Medal of Honor men, because

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an American magazine writer gave the world the story of his deed at the moment when the

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public was seeking just such a war idol.

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And then I want to spring forward to 1940s, or 41 whatever it is, when the movie comes

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out and Sergeant York, the movie comes out.

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Again a whole new media buzz, if you will, because America was looking for a new war

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hero or refanning the flames as they were looking at going into World War II.

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Did you intend to draw that comparison, or am I just over reading it?

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No, not at all.

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In fact, I mean, when the movie came out, I think it was in over the summer of 41, before

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Pearl Harbor.

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There were young men go see that movie and go down to the enlistment office in Joanne.

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And that was part of the intent of the movie.

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That's why there's a lot of newspapers saying this is really great, we need some patriotism

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right now.

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And you're right.

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One of the things was, I noted in the beginning of the book that there were 13 different American

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soldiers performed actions on October 8, 1918 and were awarded the Medal of Honor.

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Why York?

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And I think the answer is, his deed was indeed special.

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But because of his backstory, because George Pertello came along and wrote him up, I mentioned

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in the book that there's a Sergeant Harry Adams with the 89th Division.

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He shot through a door and followed some Germans through, and he walked out with 300 men and

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he unloaded weapons.

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And 300 Germans surrendered to him.

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So it wasn't just sheer numbers.

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It was everything combined, the timing, the need for a hero, maybe even the need for someone

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to say what this war was really all about.

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You know what I mean, because it really didn't resolve anything.

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The other thing that you really point out in the book, and I think it's an important

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lesson for everybody, is just because you have that one heroic day and you get put up

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on the pedestal for it, yeah, he was terrible with money.

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He had not only bad luck, but bad decisions on almost everything after the war, because

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he wasn't an educated man and he was put in the spot of having to deal with offers and

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whatnot and book deals.

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It was more than he could handle, and yet we continue to hold those heroes up and sometimes

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knock them down when they don't meet our expectations.

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00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:30,080
Yeah, and I mean, he didn't pay the taxes he owed from the receipts from the movie,

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which was a significant amount of money.

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You know, he owed the IRS into the 50s, and so finally they settled like he was worth

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$25,000 at that point or something, and he gave it all to the government and they said,

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okay, we're even now.

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When he died, he was living off of $300 stipend from a wealthy businessman.

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It was like he didn't make a lot of money off of his deed.

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If you get it in my book, I think it's almost kind of like be careful what you wish for,

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and I don't think he wished for this anyway.

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He was kind of what was thrust out of him.

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He had no idea, leaving the forest, that what was going to become of his life.

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He couldn't have.

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And you, and the whole point of the York patrol is to give some, put out some information

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about all the other men who survived or died.

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Yeah, he couldn't have done it without him.

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If they hadn't been there to help them kill these Germans and also to guard the prisoners

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that they were, you know, while they were under fire that could have just rushed them

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if they had wanted to, but had just annihilated the whole patrol.

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Yeah, so I wanted to, my first book was Remain in the Company D about my grandfather's,

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you know, and I just wanted to say who these guys were.

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You know, they were like half a dozen immigrants from Poland, Russia, Ireland, a real typical

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kind of double-boy kind of squad.

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And I want to mention one more thing too.

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People don't really get that this action, this capture of these Germans here on the

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right flank of the German line, actually was a huge turning point in the Aragon fight

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and then in the war, which ended a month later.

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They allowed their comrades to keep pushing forward west to the railway line.

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They cut that off.

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This is an October 8th.

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On October 9th, the Germans started pulling out from the Aragon because they moved their

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right flank back.

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So it was really, it's more important than just the capture of these 90, whatever, Germans.

365
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It had a big impact on the war itself.

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Let me finish by reading sort of a last few sentences that really struck me in the book.

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Because it is about not just York, it's about the other men too.

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Quote, both the quick and the dead should be remembered and honored when talk turns

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to acting Corporal Alvin C. York.

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Each did their duty and plowed into the deep woods on the left flank of their regiments

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advance into the Aragon forest, some paying the ultimate price.

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Remember their names and their sacrifice.

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But remember Alvin York as well, the man who performed his duty was still a determination

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and skill and paid for it one way or another for the rest of his life.

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Yeah, I guess that's my point.

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I really kind of believe that he might have had a happier life, he had just gone back

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to Tennessee, unknown, you know, just lived in anonymity like, you know, so many do-boys

378
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did, so many returning soldiers of all wars, dude, my grandfather did, he was a painting

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contract for Chicago.

380
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:37,960
I mean, you know, yeah, it's a question that occurred me when I was doing the book.

381
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,520
Well I want to thank you for your work.

382
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:41,800
It's a great read.

383
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:47,320
It really shines a light on a particular event and a particular Medal of Honor recipient,

384
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and we're glad to bring James Carl Nelson, author and historian, who wrote The York Patrol

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00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,000
to our veteran radio listeners.

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00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,360
Jim, thanks for taking some time with us today.

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00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,360
Thanks so much for the opportunity.

388
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,720
I appreciate it.

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00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,640
And I want to thank everybody for listening to Veterans Radio today.

390
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,120
I am Jim Fawson.

391
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,480
It's been a pleasure to be your host.

392
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:15,240
I'm a Veterans Disability Lawyer at Legal Help for Veterans, and you can reach us at

393
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:22,800
800-6934800 or legalhelpforveterans.com on the web.

394
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:27,680
You can follow Veterans Radio on Facebook and listen to its podcasts and internet radio

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00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,760
shows by going to veteransradio.net.

396
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,000
And until next time, you are dismissed.

397
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:40,680
If you have a VA claim denied by the Board of Veterans Appeals, contact Legal Help for

398
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,680
Veterans at 1-800-6934800.

399
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,680
They're experts in handling cases before the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims.

400
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,680
Their number again, 1-800-6934800.

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