1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,960 Welcome to Veterans Radio. I am Jim Fossone. I'm the officer of the deck today. 2 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:14,040 We've got some great programs for you. I think you'll find very interesting. We 3 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:18,760 always want to remind you you can find more about Veterans Radio at its 4 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:25,480 Facebook site or by going to veteransradio.net where we're on the web 5 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:31,040 24-7. You can find a lot of our podcasts there as well. We post new ones every 6 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:37,160 Tuesday so you can get a new story, a new interview, something you didn't know 7 00:00:37,160 --> 00:00:42,560 before by going to veteransradio.net. And before we get started we want to thank 8 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:48,920 our sponsors. First up we want to thank National Veteran Business Development 9 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:58,440 Council, NVBDC.org. 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You can 18 00:01:48,620 --> 00:02:00,120 reach them at 800-693-4800 or on the web at legalhelpforveterans.com. And finally 19 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:07,480 we want to welcome new sponsor to the program which is Veterans Business 20 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:13,480 Outreach Center which is located in Flint, Michigan and covers Michigan, Ohio and 21 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:18,520 Indiana. The Center is ran and operated by veterans to help other veterans in 22 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:25,680 National Guard, Reserve, spouses, expand and grow businesses. You can find more 23 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:40,680 about them by going to vetbizcentral.org 810-252-6200 and now on to our programs. 24 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:46,120 We want to welcome to Veterans Radio Lieutenant Commander Ruben Keith Green 25 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,920 of the United States Navy retired. Commander welcome to Veterans Radio. 26 00:02:49,920 --> 00:02:54,720 Thank you Jim. Happy to be here. Well we're always thrilled to have a Navy 27 00:02:54,720 --> 00:03:00,600 vet here talking about his experiences. You have a unique set of experiences 28 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:08,240 having gone from enlisted to officer in the Navy which is never easy to do in 29 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:13,680 any service in particularly challenging here as you move from an African 30 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:19,480 American who enlisted for different reasons but then joined up, got into the 31 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,760 officer corps after a number of years and really got a chance to see the world. 32 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:26,400 So we're gonna cover the we're gonna cover the waterfront as I should say. 33 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:33,280 So we're glad to have you on Ruben. Thank you. So let's talk about why a kid at 17 34 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:40,560 years old down in Florida decides maybe even against parental advice. I'm gonna 35 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:46,760 go into the military and I'm gonna join the Navy. Well because I was headed 36 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:51,560 nowhere and I was going there fast. I decided that if I stayed in the little 37 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:56,080 small town of Tarkin Springs Florida largely segregated there wasn't much of 38 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:00,280 a future there for me. It didn't matter really how smart I was or anything else 39 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:06,000 it was just that the you know my path is pretty well laid out just based on you 40 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:10,480 know cultural demographics and stuff. So I decided to join the Navy against my 41 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:15,120 father's wishes because whatever he talked about the Navy with his buddies 42 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:20,280 and stuff he always seemed to be animated about it. Occasionally there would be 43 00:04:20,280 --> 00:04:24,280 some bad stories that came up but I think he really enjoyed his time in the 44 00:04:24,280 --> 00:04:29,760 Navy. He just had some issues with certain things. Well and you your family 45 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:35,920 has a history of service your grandfather your father you brothers I mean 46 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:41,800 so there is a family of service in the in the green history tree isn't there? 47 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:46,440 There's about a hundred years. And I think that's important for people to know 48 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:52,280 that you're bringing that perspective to it and and maybe have some advice that 49 00:04:52,280 --> 00:04:57,320 maybe you wish somebody would have passed on to you and and maybe this 50 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:02,800 interview will let you let you do that. Now you got out of high school but 51 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:08,280 didn't graduate if I understand it right. Right I quit three years three three 52 00:05:08,280 --> 00:05:14,680 weeks into my senior year and joined the Navy. So the reason I want to point this 53 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,460 out is because you're going to hear in this interview how far he's gone and he 54 00:05:18,460 --> 00:05:23,040 is the author of a book that we're going to talk about and so it's one of those 55 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:30,160 things where that whole educational and growing up process you really did it in 56 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:35,760 the Navy didn't you? Absolutely I got my high school diploma my first year in the 57 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:39,200 Navy through the pre-discharge education program in Charleston South 58 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:43,120 Carolina and then while I was stationed in Cuba I was the discipline 59 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:48,040 yeoman for the Naval Station down there. I completed a bunch of coursework and 60 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,640 took some CLEP exams and I got my associates degree and then when I 61 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:59,440 transferred to Jacksonville in 1980 I completed my bachelor's degree requirements 62 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:04,440 and got my bachelor's degree and that's when I applied for OCS and went to the 63 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:10,240 Officer Canada School. And Commander Green here published a couple years back 64 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:15,760 and you can find it on all your favorite booksellers a very 65 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:20,440 interesting book called Black Officer, White Navy, Thriving While Black and 66 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:25,160 Sailing Second Class in the Post-Solmouth Navy. We're going to talk about that a 67 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:29,240 little bit but before we get there Commander talk about some of your 68 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:34,960 overseas duty assignments which I think would make everybody envious that they 69 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:40,880 didn't get such great assignments. Well I graduated from Mineman A School in 70 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:46,240 Charleston South Carolina in 1975 and then after a brief hiatus into the 71 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:50,480 reserves I came back to Charleston and they almost immediately sent me to 72 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:55,320 Ciginella, Sicily to be the detachment yeoman. I was a Mineman but they 73 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:59,520 figured out I could type so and they were short on Mineman so I went to be the 74 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:05,640 detachment yeoman. I spent six months in Sicily and made a couple trips around 75 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:11,160 you know I went to Naples once and knocked around in Sicily a little bit 76 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:15,000 and I came back to Charleston and then just a few months later they sent me to 77 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:22,520 Glen Douglas Scotland, the NATO ammunition depot there in Scotland. So I 78 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:26,040 lived in a little town called Helensboro but we worked at a NATO 79 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:30,720 ammunition depot. After I left there I was back to Charleston for a short while 80 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:36,440 and then I had converted from a Mineman to a yeoman and then they sent me to 81 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:41,920 Legal Clerk School in Newport, Rhode Island and then I was assigned as the 82 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:46,480 Mass Yeoman in Guantanamo Bay for two years and four days. Remember exactly 83 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:53,240 how long you serve in Guantanamo and after that I was stationed in Charleston, 84 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:57,800 excuse me, in Mayport. I volunteered for the Navy's Equal Opportunity Program 85 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:02,160 Specialist Program. The minimum requirement was Z6 but I got a waiver to 86 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:06,760 go as an E5 because they really needed people for those billets and after a few 87 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:11,320 years in Mayport once I got commissioned I was stationed on a frigate out of 88 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:18,440 Mayport. We made did a lot of drug interdiction stuff down in the Caribbean, 89 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:22,800 lots of Caribbean port visits and what have you and then when I became Chief 90 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:30,840 Engineer on an FFG, a frigate, I made a Persian Gulf cruise to Persian Gulf and I 91 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:35,520 left that job. I got assigned as the Executive Officer on the Navy Hydrofoil 92 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:40,640 stationed down in Key West. We did a lot of interdiction, a lot of port visits, a 93 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:44,120 lot of dog and pony shows every time we pulled in the port because all the 94 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,800 dignitaries wanted to fly in the Navy Hydrofoil so we were very accommodating 95 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:54,840 with that. Good PR for the Navy and good visibility for the Navy. And this is a 96 00:08:54,840 --> 00:09:02,080 career that's spanded from 1975 until April 1st of 1997 and and during that 97 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,800 period I mean it's really amazing the different places you got to see in the 98 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:11,800 I'm sure the broadening of your perspective as an you really are clearly 99 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:16,600 an avid reader from reading your book. I know you're an avid reader and and a 100 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:24,360 pretty prolific and welled writer. As you look back and think about that 17 or 19 101 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,400 year old kid who just was getting into the Navy did you ever think this is 102 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:33,080 where you'd be? Not at all. When I when I dropped out of high school I had always 103 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:37,520 been a prolific reader. I was reading at a two-year college level but I was 104 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:42,800 flunking English because the in my mind the dead in Florida school system at 105 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:47,120 that time didn't have didn't prevent present very many opportunities for me. 106 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:51,960 There was no way with my grades that I was going to get a scholarship or 107 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,880 anything like that so joining the Navy was a was a logical choice for me. I 108 00:09:55,880 --> 00:10:00,600 didn't want to join the Army or the Marines so you know I just followed 109 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:05,400 followed in my father's footsteps. But no I had always been very interested in 110 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:10,800 reading. Reading is what got me to where where I wound up today because if you 111 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:15,600 don't read you really can't learn that much. Well and it was important in you 112 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,560 know every promotion you've got to study and get there and every you know 113 00:10:19,560 --> 00:10:26,120 taking school remotely and kids today your your version of remote learning is 114 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,880 much different than the commanders in mind because when you were on ship the 115 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,880 box showed up and you had stuff to fill out and mail back. It was an internet 116 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:41,440 remote learning so you had a very you had a proclivity to do this and you had 117 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:46,120 the opportunity to do this because again some of these Navy assignments allow 118 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:52,240 you to have time to focus on improving yourself don't they. That's a fact and I 119 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:56,720 was willing to sacrifice a lot of sleep in order to learn stuff that I needed 120 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:01,440 that would help me get promoted. My main goal when I joined the Navy when I 121 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:05,160 decided I was going to try to become an officer was to command my own ship and 122 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:09,680 there's a lot of reading and a lot of learning that has take place before you 123 00:11:09,680 --> 00:11:13,760 ready for a job like that. And anybody of a certain age again if you're too 124 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:17,880 computer literate you won't appreciate this but your your discussion of 125 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:23,360 celestial navigation made me break into cold sweats again from doing it myself. 126 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,880 It was a horrible it was a horrible section of the book to read but I but I 127 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,760 brought back those memories of celestial navigation well boy that's a tough one. 128 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:38,520 I just started to sweat when you brought it up. So let me let me go back though 129 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:42,720 because I want I want to talk about the book and I want to talk about the 130 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:47,200 experiences while there's a whole batch of great experiences that you had being 131 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:53,000 in the in the Navy. Being an African-American in the late 70s through 132 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:59,960 the 80s into the 90s in the Navy was not a piece of cake and and one line that I 133 00:11:59,960 --> 00:12:05,040 made a note of that you you wrote you said the daily indignities that minority 134 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:10,960 sailors and officers had to endure and it really was that in the book we 135 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:16,080 explains a lot of that but but commander talk to us a little bit about how 136 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:22,400 those experiences came in day in day out but but ultimately didn't stop you 137 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:29,120 from doing what you want to accomplish. Well if you grow up in the South as a 138 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:34,640 lot of enlistees do especially you know minority sailors the South contributes 139 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:39,680 Georgia contributes more military members than any other state in the Union 140 00:12:39,680 --> 00:12:45,560 but if you grew up in the South you learn quite early to both to adjust to and 141 00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:51,080 anticipate some of those responses and I always viewed any sort of overt or 142 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:56,280 covert hostility or disrespect to whatever as a challenge I would make it my 143 00:12:56,280 --> 00:13:02,000 point to outperform or outshine the people that were trying to diminish me 144 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:06,920 because I knew at some level that it stemmed from either fear or jealousy so 145 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:13,440 my goal was to rise above all that and to just run work circles or run circles 146 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,840 around the people that were trying to diminish me at some level at some point 147 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,680 they begin to respect you because of that but there is a toll that that takes 148 00:13:20,680 --> 00:13:24,520 on you both psychologically and emotionally having to fight that battle 149 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:30,440 constantly. Yeah I wanted you to expand on the idea that as a black sailor you'd 150 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:35,560 run into this problem of where you would not get recognized for exceptional 151 00:13:35,560 --> 00:13:41,640 work that's being done. Well you know that started early in my career and it 152 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:46,240 was quite a shock to me because I thought my father was wrong and I learned 153 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:51,240 very early that he was right. I thought that when Admiral Zoomwalt said that 154 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:55,160 there was no black Navy no white Navy there was just one Navy. Everyone would 155 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:59,840 hand salute and that's what would happen. I joined the Navy six months after 156 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:05,360 Admiral Zoomwalt retired and when I went to my Mene school there were 25 people 157 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,200 that started that class and only seven of us graduated that was the number two 158 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:14,440 graduate in the class and David Badger excuse me David Badger the class genius 159 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:20,320 graduated number one he has a photographic memory he emailed me after he read 160 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:26,080 the book 20 years after I had last seen him that told me what my exact GPA was. 161 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:35,360 So but he was aware they lowered my grades from being an honor roll eligible and 162 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:40,120 then they told me I wasn't eligible for promotion and it was the daily the weekly 163 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:45,120 indignities I had to endure at at personnel inspections and during 164 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:49,320 practical examination they made it quite clear that I wasn't welcome even though 165 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:55,720 I was outperforming you know 20 25 or 26 other people. And I think it's easy 166 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,800 sometimes to think well they're just picking on me because there you know and 167 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:07,840 indeed certainly the the the younger enlisted guys all get picked on but 168 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:15,760 this was this was not that this was sort of a systematic we don't want this black 169 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:20,840 sailor to get too far advanced that's the really the message they were sending 170 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:26,680 you wasn't it. That is exactly correct. And let me again remind our veteran 171 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:31,480 radio listeners we're talking to Lieutenant Commander Ruben Keith Green 172 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:39,280 so it didn't work what they were trying to do and I told Ruben before we had 173 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:43,000 started that my problem in reading this book is about every page I had to stop 174 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,760 and write down another book that he referenced or some history that he 175 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:52,000 referenced that I wanted to go read about. Talk to us why it was important 176 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:58,080 commander for you to write this naval history of Minority Service so embedded 177 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:04,920 into into your book Black Officer White Navy thriving while while black and 178 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:10,640 sailing second class in the post Zummelt Navy. Well I thought it was important that 179 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:16,080 any individual has their own story but I thought it was important to wrap what 180 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:20,880 was happening in the country around my particular story. For instance the 181 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:27,120 instance where I was preparing to go to see the Persian Gulf deployment and my 182 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,800 supply officer was denying me the resources I needed to prepare the ship. 183 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:37,600 That was going to have an impact on the if my ship didn't deploy on time that was 184 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,840 going to have an impact much beyond just my particular ship not deploying other 185 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:46,400 ships might have to schedules might have to be adjusted the captain was going to 186 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:53,000 get hammered I mean there was a domino effect and I compare that to the 187 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:57,400 problems that black farmers were having in the 1980s during the same time period 188 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:01,880 where they were being denied resources in order to properly farm and it was 189 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:06,760 specifically black farmers so I wanted to show both the you know the on the 190 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:10,120 ground view and then the 10,000 foot view of what was happening in the larger 191 00:17:10,120 --> 00:17:14,880 larger country. I kept trying to tie what was happening to me and what was 192 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,040 happening in the Navy to events that were happening throughout the nation 193 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:24,200 both political and economic and cultural. And one of the things that I think you do 194 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:30,600 a great job of in in the book is talking about Admiral Zumult and what what his 195 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:36,520 goal was and how far short we were coming in it in the Navy at that point 196 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:44,680 can you talk about your if I dare say admiration for the admiral and where you 197 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:50,720 think if we had followed his directions we might be better off. Well you call it 198 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:58,200 admiration I prefer the term reverence he's a he's a real hero to me and he 199 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:03,520 literally had to be educated by his minority affairs assistant Lieutenant 200 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:07,280 Commander William S. Norman who had put in a resignation letter because he was 201 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:11,080 so disgusted with the Navy and their lack of progress he'd been on all of the 202 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:15,200 boards and committees and recommendations and he had his own experiences 203 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:20,440 similar to mine and Admiral Zumult said bring the sky and I want to talk to him 204 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:25,960 before he before he retires. And that Lieutenant Commander Norman walked in 205 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:30,840 there with a list of 20s basically there were 20 recommendations but they 206 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,840 really were demands. Zumult said that I called him in to interview him and it 207 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:40,480 turns out he was interviewing me but those two together worked to identify and 208 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:45,680 eliminate all of the institutional biases that existed in the Navy and 209 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:51,640 obstacles. It wasn't until Norman pointed it out to Zumult that Filipino 210 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,720 sailors could only serve in the Stewards branch and Zumult immediately changed 211 00:18:55,720 --> 00:19:01,840 that so that one that one point changed the course of the career of many many 212 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:08,120 Filipino sailors that's just one example. So I admire the man greatly the 213 00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:15,840 problem with Zumult and his era was that much of the civilian leadership did 214 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:19,560 not like what he was doing and there were very powerful southern politicians 215 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:25,680 including John C. Stennis and there's a story in the book where when the some of 216 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:29,480 the black sailors on some of the ships had begun to protest their treatment and 217 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:35,720 and do sit sit down work stoppages etc. Henry Kissinger called Zumult tells him 218 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:39,800 the president wants you to immediately discharge those sailors with a 219 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,360 dishonorable discharge. Of course Richard Nixon knew that wasn't possible he's a 220 00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:47,640 former naval officer himself but that was just the the law and order type 221 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:53,160 approach that the government was taking towards those sorts of issues and then 222 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:58,720 when Senator John C. Stennis got wind of that he wanted to blame it all on Zumult 223 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:03,080 saying he had created a climb enough for misadmiss and along with former C&O 224 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:09,680 George Anderson and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Admiral 225 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:14,560 Thomas More who was a racist from Alabama there was a lot of pushback to 226 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:19,000 what Zumult was was trying to do and the animals lobby both retired and active 227 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:24,040 duty were in to a large a large extent aligned against them because the Navy 228 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:30,800 had almost no black officers like 0.5% and and they didn't want any. 229 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:36,600 Now and again the history that's involved in the book is really well done 230 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:42,040 in eye-opening I didn't want to come back to maybe three pearls of wisdom that 231 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:46,120 you have here too so that you can talk to the broader audience and maybe some of 232 00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:51,520 the young men and women who may listen to this. Talk about the importance of 233 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:56,880 mentorship both in your situation but in everybody's situation as you try to 234 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:03,720 advance. If you don't have a good mentor you are going to make a lot of mistakes. 235 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:10,960 I had people that looked out for me and they were almost all white because just 236 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:15,360 by the the rank demographics the only time I've worked for a black man I worked 237 00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:19,080 for two black men in the Navy and that was early on in my career and one of 238 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:23,360 them had turned down a commission and he told me said Keith if you want to make 239 00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:27,760 any changes you need to get some gold on your that's where you're going to be 240 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:35,440 able to make some some changes so mentorship is important but what's 241 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:40,880 even more important is having a sponsor which is someone with some power that 242 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:45,520 can help guide your career and look out for you if you happen to run into any 243 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:52,400 trouble. The sponsors are as important as the mentor. For my career I have people 244 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:57,280 that looked out for me multiple occasions one of my heroes is Master Chief 245 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:02,320 Daniel J. Zepiro. He saved me from a vindictive Master Chief that was trying 246 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:07,640 to destroy my career by fabricating these negative critiques and whatnot and 247 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:13,080 Dan Zepiro is the true hero to me he really did save me. Well again these 248 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:17,160 are the you know hard-earned lessons that you want to pass on to people is 249 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:23,920 look for those mentors and those sponsors but you also talk about and this 250 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,360 shouldn't be surprising to somebody who writes so well and who was a you know 251 00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:35,480 sort of accidental yeoman and legal professional here. The power of 252 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,120 documentation I think again that's something that is a lesson you learn 253 00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:44,120 over time and maybe you can pass it along. That is one of the most important 254 00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:49,360 things I learned in the Navy. It doesn't matter what you say it is only what you 255 00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:55,240 can prove. If you can't prove that you're being discriminated against it can be 256 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,200 happening on a regular basis but you need to have proof and you also need 257 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:03,840 documentation to prove that you're right. A lot of times you will bring up an 258 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,480 issue and you may have a gut feeling that something needs to be done or 259 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,560 something shouldn't be done but you have to be able to document it because I 260 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:17,360 mean the military operates on numbers. The numbers are critical whether you're 261 00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:22,640 a supply officer or a weapon air or an engineer. You have to stay within those 262 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:27,400 parameters in terms of you know doing your job and if something falls outside 263 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:32,200 those parameters and number one you haven't paid attention to it or you 264 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,560 haven't documented a ton of bricks can fall down on your head but it's very 265 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,680 important to document what is happening to you in your career and what's going 266 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:45,960 on around you. I made a point of every time not every time but often when I 267 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:50,880 would go see one of my bosses especially after I got my commission I'd see one of 268 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:55,320 my bosses about something and I would just casually ask is there anything that 269 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,680 I'm doing that you don't want me to do is there anything that I'm not doing that 270 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:03,160 you want me to do and whatever that was I would write it down because I didn't 271 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,480 want any surprises at the when it's time for my fitness report so if it was 272 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,800 something I needed to change I would jump on immediately and if everything was 273 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:16,920 going well I'd look for ways to improve. Well and there's one more that I want to 274 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:24,440 use and then we'll shift into some of your more recent writings and in Black 275 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:30,600 Officer White Navy you talk about the power of words and symbols can you 276 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:36,560 elaborate a little bit about that commander? Oh I certainly can. Going back 277 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:41,240 to the first six months I was in the Navy there was a young man at one of the 278 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:45,480 school's commands there in Charleston, South Carolina who had filed a 279 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,280 discrimination complaint. He was facing the same kind of discrimination I was. 280 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,520 I never met him but I know what was happening. You gotta remember Charleston 281 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:56,080 was where the first shots of the Civil War were fired. Admiral Thomas Crowe said 282 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,760 that when he was stationed there he never met anybody in South Carolina that 283 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:06,400 thought the South had lost the Civil War. So my buddy and I were walking 284 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:11,440 down the sidewalk in front of the school and this pickup truck pulls up in 285 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,920 front of us and it's the captain of the school and he tells us to get in he wants 286 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,400 to give us a ride. Well of course the hair on the back of my neck stood up 287 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,240 because this guy had never paid any attention to us at all. So we got into 288 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:28,800 his truck and plastered it all across the dashboard where stickers honoring the 289 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:33,040 Confederacy. Forget hell the South's gonna rise again etc etc and I was 290 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,240 terrified. I literally was worried that something was about to happen to me. I 291 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,280 looked in the rearview mirror to see if there was a car behind us. That symbology 292 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:48,160 for a person raised in the South can be quite powerful. So I spent almost all of 293 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:52,720 my career in the South and seeing Confederate flags and those types of 294 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,440 stickers all over the base and in people's offices was not an unusual 295 00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:04,760 occurrence but it has an ability to be intimidating to minorities. Well I think 296 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:09,280 it's just good advice for everybody right to think a little bit about hey 297 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:15,800 what you say in the symbols you use has a certain amount of power intended or 298 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,480 unintended and you may have to decide for yourself whether it's a good 299 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,600 intention or a bad but don't overlook the power of words and symbols and I 300 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:29,360 think that's really driven home in your book and again it really recommended to 301 00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:35,640 folks. They can find it on any of your booksellers your online sellers. It's 302 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:42,880 also in ebook version. So Lieutenant Commander Ruben Keith Green you did a 303 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:50,080 great job. Thank you. I'd like to turn if I can to sort of some things that are 304 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,880 going on more recently while the book is really capturing that period of time 305 00:26:54,880 --> 00:27:01,920 during your service from 1975 to 1997. Here we sit in 2020 and the country 306 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:11,040 again finds itself evaluating talking about arguing about symbols and the 307 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:17,680 case for renaming forts and bases and ships and you've written on two articles 308 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:24,880 I want to talk about one in the United States Navy Institute magazine in 2020 309 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:33,200 of June the case for renaming the USS John C. Stennis. Talk to us about what 310 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,760 motivated you to write this commander and in a little bit about why and how you 311 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:45,240 wrote it. Well it always galled me to think that the man who did so much to 312 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:50,520 try to derail the changes in the Navy that allowed me to become an officer was 313 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,520 honored with an aircraft carrier and I had read 314 00:27:54,520 --> 00:28:03,520 Zumwalt's memoir that talked about Stennis's efforts to derail his 315 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,800 trying to bring the Navy into the 21st century and then when I read about 316 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:14,840 Stennis's background as a prosecutor in Mississippi where he was complicit in 317 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:20,480 trying to execute three black men who had been convicted based on 318 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:29,840 confessions obtained via torture I just found it appalling and so for me that 319 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:34,200 was something if you're talking about removing symbols that divide I just I 320 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:39,560 just could not imagine myself being assigned to a ship that was that was 321 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,320 named in honor of someone with a background like that I mean just think 322 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,280 about that it's Black History Month and you know you've got these you know 323 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:50,000 Black History Month celebrations going on and you've got you know potentially 324 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:54,160 these white sailors say hey well you know Stennis was a bad hard racist right 325 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,080 you know I mean that would be something every day you walk aboard that ship and 326 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:03,120 you hear John C. Stennis arriving it's just a constant reminder that you're 327 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:08,760 serving on a ship named for an ardent segregationist who rode his defeat by the 328 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:14,280 Supreme Court in his ability to execute those men rode that into a career as a 329 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:18,240 prosecutor and judge and then a Mississippi State Senator and I just don't 330 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,080 I think that sends a wrong signal in the 21st century when you're talking about 331 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:27,960 inclusion and diversity it just it's like a constant slap in the face and 332 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,600 it's really interesting as we go through this debate about different forts and 333 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:39,080 different ships the naming of it you know you wonder who the heck did what 334 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:45,160 vetting on these names or what other political pressures were involved in 335 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:50,000 putting the name forward and skipping over the all of the maybe the bad history 336 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,960 if you will and did you find that was what was really involved in the Stennis 337 00:29:53,960 --> 00:30:00,480 is is those sort of outside forces in the naming well Ronald Reagan was an ardent 338 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:07,480 admirer of John C. Stennis Stennis did a lot for the Navy I believe that based on 339 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:12,280 some of the recordings that came out after the fact that Ronald Reagan may 340 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:17,200 have been sympathetic to Stennis's racial views so he was willing to overlook 341 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:23,320 all of that and honor the man who was quite powerful in the South and I don't 342 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,440 know if Ronald Reagan said he wanted something he was going to get it they 343 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:32,400 kept taking that tear down this wall line out of his speech where he told 344 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,240 Gorbachev to tear down that wall and he kept putting it back in and he did 345 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:41,000 utter it so I think it was a strong will personality and I'm not sure what he 346 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:45,640 thought about zoom wall but he was an ardent admirer and and was full of 347 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:51,720 respect for John's Stennis yeah I don't have the background on the you know what 348 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,880 went into that a little more timely naming I think when we ought to talk 349 00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:02,040 about is the USS Doris Miller you you tell folks to look it up as you do in a 350 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,560 lot of your writing you sort of tease them with it and say now go do some 351 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:10,360 research of your own but let's let's go ahead and tell Doris Miller story 352 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:15,520 because I think it was avoided or ignored or forgotten for so long well 353 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:22,160 when he was serving in Pearl Harbor I forget which ship exactly but he was 354 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:27,000 trained as an ammunition loader but once Pearl Harbor attack began his captain 355 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:31,840 was severely injured he helped get his captain to safety and then went back up 356 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,960 and he operated this machine gun which he had not been trained to operate and 357 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:41,760 shot at multiple Japanese plays there's no documentation that he ever shot 358 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:46,640 shot any down but he was one of the last three men to leave the ship as it was 359 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:51,640 sinking and he helped you know save a lot of people on that ship now when 360 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:56,160 the initial press reports came out they just said an unnamed black sailor had 361 00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:02,200 done all these things and so the black press began pushing to have the sailor 362 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:07,120 recognized he got a lower award than some of the other awardees on the ship 363 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:13,440 but they began to use Doris Miller as a recruiting tool and he 364 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:19,440 wound up getting transferred to another ship after his recruiting journey 365 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,800 across the United States and was lost at sea when one of the other ship he was 366 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:27,000 unsunk I learned a lot more about this story when I read a book called black 367 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:32,200 men in blue water by Chester Wright who knew Doris Miller and some of the people 368 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:36,880 that knew him so there are many many gems in that book it's not a well-known 369 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:41,040 book but it's a great reference if you want to know what the Navy was like for 370 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:46,360 black sailors prior to you know the early 70s well and you make another 371 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:51,760 suggestion in this article on the replacement name for the Stennis let's 372 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:57,120 let's remove his name tell us who you think it ought to be named for well the 373 00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,920 man that Admiral zoom Walt who is credited with bringing the Navy into the 374 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,520 21st century and who received the Presidential Medal of Freedom from 375 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:09,320 President Bill Clinton you can watch that clip on YouTube he said that William 376 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:14,480 S. Norman his minority affairs assistant did more than any person on the planet 377 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:19,500 to improve the flight of black sailors in the Navy I find it amazing that 378 00:33:19,500 --> 00:33:24,680 Lieutenant Commander Norman's records are not in the distinguished veteran 379 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:30,120 section of the the National Archives Dennis Den Martin Nelson who was one of 380 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,640 the Golden 13 and wrote the book the integration of the Negro in the United 381 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:38,400 States Navy his records are there but William Norman is one of those overlooked 382 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:45,040 heroes that without him educating zoom Walt and teaching him how things were 383 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,320 for minority sailors and their families many of these changes may not have taken 384 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,840 place for decades and these are the kind of stories I think it's so important to 385 00:33:53,840 --> 00:34:00,520 tell down through history so that they don't get lost and that young men and 386 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:06,160 women coming up whatever they're facing what in your book you talk about issues 387 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:11,880 for the for gays and blacks and Hispanics but whatever issue you're facing you can 388 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:16,440 look at these guys these stories you're telling us and realize there's hope that 389 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:21,400 that one man one woman can can make a difference in the right situation don't 390 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:27,320 you absolutely you have to believe that change is possible and once you believe 391 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:32,480 that then you have to start looking for ways to make it happen just in August of 392 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:37,960 2020 you wrote an article called the Navy's perpetual racism problem and how 393 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:43,200 to fix it for the Center for International Maritime Security and I want to 394 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,320 ask you a couple of questions I think you right up front point out three 395 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:52,000 problems first is there's racism in the ranks second is that's a failure of 396 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:57,920 leadership and third it's the Navy's unwilling to face head-on the first two 397 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:04,000 problems and and what I want to have you expand on a little bit is your 398 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:08,720 suggestion that what the Navy needs to do is to target the problem as though 399 00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:14,920 we're an operational necessity and matter of national security to fix what 400 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:19,800 were you thinking about as you wrote that well I compare it to a captain who 401 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,440 runs his ship or ground when the captain runs his ship or ground whether it's a 402 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:27,560 soft grounding or hard grounding he doesn't get to select the officer that's 403 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,640 going to investigate whether he did anything wrong or whether the ship was 404 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:36,960 well-trained etc someone outside of that organization takes a full court press 405 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:43,240 looking at all the training the past history the material condition etc what 406 00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:48,080 were the circumstances they do a a an all-encompassing look to see what 407 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:54,640 contributed to that now when someone is accused of racism the captain selects 408 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,680 someone to do that investigation and that person knows that the captain is 409 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,800 going to sign his fitness report at the end of the reporting period so there's 410 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:07,000 a conflict of interest there the other thing is the Navy has equal opportunity 411 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:13,240 program personnel assigned to many major large commands some as a collateral 412 00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:17,880 duty and the captain also signs their fitness report but what is interesting is 413 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,600 that the person who has the most knowledge in the most training can only 414 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:26,360 make an advisory opinion which is very often overridden there was an article 415 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:31,480 that came out a special report in routers just last week and it talked 416 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:36,080 about the high barrier that minority sailors face when trying to report 417 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:44,160 discrimination in the Navy and between 1987 and 1991 the average 418 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:50,240 substantiated discrimination complaint numbed percentage for the Navy was 7% 419 00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:57,680 according to this article in 2019 the average substantiated rate was 6% so it's 420 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:05,280 actually dropped all these decades later the problem is people really don't 421 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,960 understand how pervasive racism is so what they a lot of times what they 422 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:14,720 perceive is just normal everyday behavior is microaggressions and 423 00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:19,520 sabotage or whatever but you know the Navy really needs to revamp and not 424 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,880 just the Navy Department of Defense I've been fighting for two years to get some 425 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:28,040 of those statistics released to me and so far they've been unwilling to do it 426 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:33,480 as you look back over your long career and you can go back a hundred years 427 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:39,040 because you can go through your father's and your grandfather's service and as 428 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:45,880 you project forward as a as a you know think deep thinker on this issue is the 429 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:51,000 Navy heading in the right direction I'm it's incrementally slow but are we at 430 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:55,960 least making progress what's your what's your prognosis here commander I think 431 00:37:55,960 --> 00:38:00,920 we're headed in the right direction but you know once again it all comes back 432 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:06,560 to leadership if you if the leadership is committed to fixing a problem it'll 433 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:12,560 happen Apollo 13 you know that those people back there Houston said failure 434 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:18,320 is not an option and as far as I'm concerned if you've got 40% of the Navy 435 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:23,520 complies of military personnel continuing to accept the status quo is not an 436 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:30,000 option because we had we had significant racial incidents all over the 437 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:34,520 military back in the 60s 70s and on through the 80s you don't hear about a 438 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:39,400 lot of those because it's it's kind of hushed up but people are getting tired 439 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:45,120 and people are getting frustrated because you can't use the system to help 440 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,680 protect yourself and help people accountable well people eventually are 441 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,840 going to start going outside the system on more than one occasion I had to use 442 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:58,720 unorthodox methods to make my point and to protect myself and really it's if 443 00:38:58,720 --> 00:39:02,960 you're you know you've had a great career again we talked about this earlier 444 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:12,200 that you don't you know regret having committed your adult life to the Navy 445 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:18,960 oh absolutely I would recommend anyone join the military what I regret is the 446 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:24,280 system that I trusted to protect me you know they teach you to fight but then 447 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:28,560 when you fight for yourself the wagons get circled around the perpetrator as 448 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,960 opposed to the victim that has been my experience and that's been reported to 449 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:36,640 me from from many other people so the system has to change and recognize that 450 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:40,880 when you protect someone who is behaving in a racist manner you are 451 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:45,280 undermining the stability of that organization and when people vote with 452 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:51,120 their feet you're cutting off your nose to spite your face because as people 453 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:57,080 begin to spread those messages about the Navy had a terrible reputation in the 454 00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:01,880 40s and 50s people were actively telling people not to join the join the 455 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:08,440 Navy so if that message gets out there again then you're eliminating a large 456 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:16,120 portion of your your recruiting pool and you're you are causing that 457 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:21,760 recruiting pool not to have the opportunity to have this great career 458 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:25,880 I mean you're we're trying to give we should this country should be giving 459 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:30,920 people equal opportunity to succeed and we shouldn't let those kind of view 460 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:36,120 points and processes say well you can't you can't go to Sicily you can't go to 461 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:42,160 Scotland you can't you know so it's a very there's a real there's a real push 462 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:46,640 and pull here and a need for people to say I'm gonna get through this and I'm 463 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:50,600 gonna prove my worth and you've certainly you've certainly done commander 464 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:56,440 it's a good as I say it's a great story I know you have a website and you're 465 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,760 continuing to write things why don't you tell our veteran radio listeners a 466 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,400 little bit about how they can find you and how they can communicate with you 467 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:10,200 well I have a rudimentary website at Ruben Keith green calm I'm not on any 468 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:15,520 other social media but I am on LinkedIn Ruben Green writer looking for minority 469 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:21,840 veteran stories one of my goals is to write a book about the experiences of 470 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,720 African-Americans and minorities from various branches of the service because 471 00:41:25,720 --> 00:41:31,440 mine is just one story that's one data point if you get enough people sharing 472 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:36,640 their stories people don't know this but there are very few you can count on one 473 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:44,360 hand the stories and books written about the Vietnam war era on one hand you can 474 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:50,040 count those by authors of African-American ancestry and two of those 475 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:54,400 are fictionalized versions that were written by people that never served so 476 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:58,640 there's a big hole in the literature about the experiences of African-American 477 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:03,440 service people after the Vietnam war era and I'm trying to do my best to fix 478 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:09,000 that well we appreciate all that you've done and you continue to do on behalf of 479 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:15,560 the military the Navy the African-American community and getting this 480 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:21,600 history preserved and out so that it can influence policymakers and just regular 481 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,520 individuals going forward and Lieutenant Commander Ruben Keith Green 482 00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:29,920 thanks for spending some time today with Veterans Radio thank you and I really 483 00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:34,800 appreciate the opportunity and I want to thank everybody for listening to 484 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:40,120 Veterans Radio today I am Jim Fawcone it's been a pleasure to be your host I'm a 485 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:44,680 Veterans Disability lawyer at Legal Help for Veterans and you can reach us at 486 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:53,200 800-6934800 or legalhelpforveterans.com on the web you can follow Veterans 487 00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:58,360 Radio on Facebook and listen to its podcasts and internet radio shows by 488 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:04,480 going to veteransradio.net and until next time you are dismissed 489 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,800 you have a VA claim denied by the Board of Veterans Appeals contact Legal Help 490 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:14,360 for Veterans at 1-800-6934800 they're experts in handling cases 491 00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,600 before the US Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims their number again 492 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:25,440 1-800-6934800 Veterans Radio needs you if you like our shows that are informative 493 00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:30,000 surprising stories and relevant 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