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All across America and around the world, this is Veterans Radio.

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This is Veterans Radio.

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And now, your host for today's program, Dale Throneberry.

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And welcome to the radio. My name is Dale Throneberry.

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I was a CW-2 helicopter pilot in Vietnam in 1969.

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We want to welcome you to our program today.

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I'm really excited because we're going to be talking helicopters and helicopter rescues and all sorts of stories about helicopters.

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So all you rotor heads out there, tune in, notify all your friends.

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We're going to be talking with Phil Marshall, who was a Medevac pilot in Vietnam, and about his series of books.

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He's got about 12 of them, at least, that talk about helicopter rescues in Vietnam.

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So we're really excited to talk with Phil later on and make sure that you all tune in.

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Right now, I want to make sure that we thank everybody that supports Veterans Radio.

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We couldn't do it without you.

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Number one would be Legal Help for Veterans.

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Legal Help for Veterans is a law firm specializing in Veterans disability claims.

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For more information, go to their website. That's legalhelpforveterans.com, or you can give them a call at 800-6934800.

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We also want to thank the National Veterans Business Development Council, or NVBDC.

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The NVBDC's main purpose is to certify that a veteran-owned business is actually that, veteran-owned.

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This can be very important for veteran-owned businesses and companies that want to do business with the government and with veteran-friendly corporations.

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So to find out more information about becoming a member of the NVBDC, give them a call at 888-237-8434.

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That's 888-237-8434, or you can go to their website. That's NVBDC.org.

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We also want to thank the Eisenhower Center here in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

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The Eisenhower Center is an in-house facility for treatment of veterans and anyone else who has suffered from a post-traumatic syndrome,

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any sort of traumatic brain injury, concussion, anxiety, depression, or suspected CTE.

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They have a special program that they started a while ago called After the Impact Program that provides rehab for veterans, first responders, and professional athletes

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through a 30- to 90-day evidence-based treatment program.

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For more information, you can contact them at eisenhowercenter.com.

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You should be noted that Eisenhower Center is hiring right now, and so we encourage you to go to that website, eisenhowercenter.com, and see if there's something that you might be able to do, or some way you can help them out.

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Or you could give them a call at 734-677-0070.

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That's the Eisenhower Center, and then last is our Vet Biz Central, and this is a part of the Veteran Business Outreach Center division, I guess you could say,

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of the United States Small Business Administration, specializing in helping out veterans' businesses.

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And they are located up in Flint, and they handle the Vet Biz Central is from Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana.

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They put on all types of webinars and seminars for veterans who are attempting to start their businesses or to grow their businesses.

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They have entrepreneurial training, education, mentoring, counseling, how to write a business plan, how to go find funding, all sorts of things.

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So we encourage you to check them out, that's eisenhowercenter.com, and their phone number is 810-767-8387.

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And I would be very remiss if I did not mention our local Veterans Service Organizations that also help us out here at Veterans Radio.

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And that would be American Legion Post-46 of Ann Arbor, Veterans of Foreign War Post-423 also of Ann Arbor, and finally the Charles S. Kettles, Vietnam Veterans of America Post-310, all of Ann Arbor, Michigan.

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Thank you men and women of those organizations, we could not do our job without you.

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Well, it's that time of year again, it's October, and October means the beginning of Toys for Tots.

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And Toys for Tots is in their 73rd year, which I think is awesome.

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The Toys for Tots program is sponsored by the United States Marine Corps.

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I can't do the huyau because I'm not a Marine.

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Created in 1947 and expanded nationwide in 1948, the United States Marine Corps Reserve Toys for Tots program is an official activity of the United States Marine Corps.

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And it is the Marine Corps' premier community action program from 1947 through 2019.

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The United States Marines have distributed over 584 million toys to over 265 million less fortunate children.

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Today, Toys for Tots is the nation's flagship Christmas charitable cause with local Toys for Tots campaign conducted from October 1 through December each year in over 800 local communities throughout the nation.

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We encourage you to go to ToysforTots.org.

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It is a IRS recognized 501C3 non-for-profit charity.

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And find out more information.

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And I've got an interview with the president.

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I guess he is right now.

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He's the head of the Toys for Tots organization.

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And this is a currently United States Marine Corps retired Ted Migg Sylvester.

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So Derek, if you could play that interview, that would be great right now.

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This Christmas, Toys for Tots celebrates over 70 years of delivering a message of hope to America's less fortunate children.

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In 1947, one Marine unit delivered 5,000 toys.

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Today, Marines will provide toys and books to 7 million children in over 800 communities nationwide.

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Over 15 million children live in poverty in the United States.

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And nearly all risk waking up Christmas morning without a gift under their tree.

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Thousands of Marines and volunteers aim to change that.

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Lieutenant General Pete Osman, president and CEO of the Marine Toys for Tots Foundation, has more.

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Folks, Marine Toys for Tots really need your support this year.

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Through the gift of a new toy or a cash donation, you can help bring the joy of Christmas and send that message of hope to our nation's less fortunate children.

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Simply drop your favorite toy in a Toys for Tots collection bin or make an online donation.

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Please go to www.toysfortots.org for more information.

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Okay, that's Toys for Tots.org. We encourage you to go to their website.

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They will be starting to collect toys again. They're also looking for donations, of course, and during a pandemic, it's kind of going to be a more difficult situation to get to their collection boxes.

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But we encourage you to find out all that you can.

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We're hoping that over the next couple of months, we will have representatives from the Marine Corps Reserves to be on the program to give us kind of an update of what is going on with their Toys for Tots program this year.

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Okay, we're going to start getting our rotors going. We're going to start pulling pitch and taking off here pretty quickly.

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We're going to take a real quick break. And when we come back, our guest is going to be Phil Marshall. And Phil was a medevac pilot in Vietnam in 1969.

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His call sign was DMZ-Dustoff711. It was based out of Camp Evans and Quang Trie with a 237th Medical Detachment Helicopter Ambulance.

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This was the northernmost Dustoff unit.

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Phil has written, I've lost count already, but at least 14 or 15 books that I can find about being a Dustoff pilot and also about all of the various rescues that occurred in Vietnam.

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His latest volume, number 12, is helicopter rescues in Vietnam. The true stories of daring helicopter rescues as told by the men who flew them.

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So stay tuned, put on your headsets, get some popcorn, whatever it is that you need, and we'll be right back with Phil Marshall right here.

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If you have a VA claim denied by the Board of Veterans Appeals, contact Legal Help for Veterans at 1-800-693-4800.

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They're experts in handling cases before the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims. Their number again, 1-800-693-4800.

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The joy of living is in the giving.

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Hello there, this is Nat King Cole, wishing you all a happy and a merry Christmas and asking that you remember our less fortunate children by giving toys for tots.

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We can fly as high as it has as needed to stay out of the range of small arms fire.

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This is Dale Thromber again with Veterans Radio, and as I mentioned earlier on, we're really excited to have Phil Marshall on our program today.

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He was a war officer, helicopter pilot, as was I, and we're in country at the same time, just at different ends of the country.

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So Phil, I want to welcome you to Veterans Radio.

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Thanks very much, Dale.

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Well, it's a pleasure to talk to you finally. We want to thank our friend Dwight Zimmerman for connecting us.

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Dwight is with the Military Writer Society of America, and he knew that I would be really interested in these books, and I'm so shocked that I hadn't heard about them before.

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How did you get involved in writing all these stories?

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I wanted to honor the 15 men in my unit that didn't make it home to their families, and I knew that we had some rather unusual and memorable rescue missions in the 237th.

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So I put the book together. Not knowing if I would even sell 14 copies, let alone have 14 volumes.

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But long copies of the book to friends who always had enjoyed hearing the stories, non-Vietnam veterans, and they said, wow, these are cool. You got any more?

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And I get, well, yeah, there's thousands of them out there.

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And it just started the snowball rolling, and I'm working on the 15th book.

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But all the books have at least 20 missions. They're all true. Some of them are just absolutely incredible.

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I sent a copy of a book to an acquaintance that flew Chinooks in Afghanistan, and his comment was, if I didn't pry in combat myself, I wouldn't believe half these stories.

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But they're all absolutely true. They're not embellished, and they're either told by the people who actually participated or for the stories with unhappy endings, those that were there and can provide me with the details,

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and allows me to honor the men, the other men, who didn't make it back, not only the ones in my unit.

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Right. Well, as you mentioned, some of these stories are just so mind-boggling, and even though I was there and you were there, and you wonder how they got out of the messes that they would get into periodically.

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One of the mantras of being a helicopter pilot, I think probably anywhere when you're in the military, if that was one of our people who were hurt, we went to get them.

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We didn't even think twice. In fact, there's a really kind of cute little article about the idiots in the front of the entire...

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I have guys contribute stuff to me that just comes out of the blue. Yeah, if you want to talk about that one a little bit, that's pretty funny.

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It was. I have to find it again. I can't remember what page it was on.

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It was clear in the back. Clear in the back of 12.

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Okay. I will look at it. But anyway, it just talks about that these poor, the door gunners and crew chiefs that were in the back of the aircraft, you know, kind of...

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Unfortunately, they were on the... It's like being a kid in your parents' car on vacation. They didn't have any choice.

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I shouldn't say they didn't, but sometimes, as you well know, things would come up for a vote, so to speak.

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What do you think, guys? Should we do it? And it was always, yes. Go. Go.

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Right. And they talk about in this about the pilots and about them making those decisions.

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And it's, as I mentioned earlier on, I just thought it was so important that we all... I think we all had the mentality was...

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Yeah, here it is. The two crazy bastards up front.

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I'm glad you could say the word.

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Yeah. I don't know. I'm looking at my controller here to say, don't do that.

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I think it's lightened up a little bit here.

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It was written by Mike Vaughn, and I'm assuming he must have been a crew chief for a door gunner.

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He was a crew chief, yes.

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Okay. And he says, I remember times when our crew would be flying along just minding our own business on some ash and trash mission.

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That meant just a regular resupply mission.

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And suddenly there was a call for a dust offer. Somebody needed to be picked up in a hot LZ.

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And, you know, do we continue flying along on a relatively safe ash and trash mission?

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Well, no, because the two crazy people up front have volunteered our crew for the dust offer, you know, the extraction.

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And that was kind of the way that it was.

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You know, it was...

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That was our job.

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Yeah. I mean, that's exactly what it was. It was our job was.

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And one of your other stories, you had a... It was the Charles Simmons story.

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And I want to talk about that in a little bit later.

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But here, you know, the motto of being in Vietnam is you either de-roast or you died.

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And the de-roast was that the date of estimated return to stateside.

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And of course, we know what the other one meant.

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But let's do get into these stories a little bit.

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I wanted to talk about the ones at the beginning.

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I was going to say it was mission number two in this volume.

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And it talks about the Aydrang Valley.

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And some of the misconceptions of what actually occurred there.

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And I'm going to let you tell a little bit of that story.

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I had the privilege of talking with Hal Moore about his book and with Joe Galloway.

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And, you know, got another version of some of these stories.

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So let's talk about the misconceptions.

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Sure. Sure.

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Well, of course, the battle of the Aydrang Valley was the basis of the movie.

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We were soldiers once with Mel Gibson.

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And all of us dust off pilots, Medevac, 15th Cav, or 15th, first Cav, 15th Medical Battalion,

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first Cav, Medevac, we were all upset at the way that the dust off was portrayed in the movie,

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that the dust off refused to go in.

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Well, as it turns out with a lot of research from the 15th Med historian, Terry Mccarle,

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that higher ups pulled dust off for Medevac in this case that you won't go in.

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They didn't have hardly any extra aircraft, any extra crew.

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The mission was almost surely going to end in disaster.

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And so a higher up said you won't go in.

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So Medevac had to refuse the mission.

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Well, not knowing where that came from, the ground troops, Hal Moore in particular,

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thought that the dust off was just refusing to go in.

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So the slick, guys, names are escaping me right now, the one, the Medal of Honor Freeman and who else was it?

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The Freeman and Crandall.

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Yeah, yeah, Bruce Crandall.

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They went in and picked out, pulled out like close to 100 wounded under intense enemy fire,

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both awarded the Medal of Honor, which they absolutely earned.

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But again, the basis was that the dust off, the Medevac refused, which we never did.

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I never refused a mission.

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Whether I was co-pilot or pilot, it was you go.

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And so again, with a lot of research from Karen Maccarle and a lot of input from Medevac pilots,

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15th Medevac pilots during that battle and in the unit at the time, said,

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no, we weren't allowed to.

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We were specifically pulled.

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You will not fly that mission.

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So that was where that came from.

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And again, it's really, really been upsetting to see the popularity of the moving in the book and that's come off in a bad light.

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Well, I think it should also be pointed out to our audience that this occurred in 1965, right?

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Right, yep.

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And this was, I mean, this was...

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There weren't that many helicopters in Vietnam.

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Well, we might use that now.

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Am I right?

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Yeah, I'm sorry.

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I think you cut out.

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I said there weren't that many helicopters in Vietnam.

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Had maintenance problems and were hard to keep in the air.

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Right.

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I mean, they hadn't gotten into the...

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We weren't even up to a half a million men yet serving in Vietnam.

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So I mean, that's just another thing.

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And later on, as the battle continued, because this was not just a one-day battle.

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This thing went on for three or four days.

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Metavacs were flying in and out of there eventually.

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Yes, yep.

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Yeah, they... once things calmed down a little bit,

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then they didn't have to land under intensively fire.

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So higher up said, yeah, go ahead.

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Well, I think it's interesting, and I want to tell our audience this,

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that maybe you're not familiar with Metavacs,

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is that you guys, you didn't have any weapons on board.

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No, no.

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No, no, no, 15th Med, Metavac, they eventually put door guns on.

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But when they were... had to refuse the mission, they did not have door guns.

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But then about a year later, they put them on.

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But of course, the Geneva Convention says that we couldn't carry offensive weapons as air ambulance.

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Metavac said, though, we're going to put them in, and it's preventive medicine.

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So, you know, you can take that as you want.

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But my understanding is that the North Vietnam Viet Cong did not sign the Geneva Convention.

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So they were shooting at the Red Cross.

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They got my understanding, they had a medal and a $500 reward, piazzas, whatever,

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for shooting down any American helicopter.

203
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Right, and you guys had such a nice big target on it anyway.

204
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Yeah, yeah, they did pretty good sometimes.

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What the helicopter itself...

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My understanding that we were three times as more vulnerable than the average helicopter in Vietnam.

207
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But, you know, why are we more vulnerable?

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Well, we're going in, somebody's wounded, we're going in to pick them up.

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That means there's bad guys there.

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Right, there are bad guys.

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And a lot of times you didn't have gun support going into you.

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You had some planning before most of your missions.

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The horn goes off and we're gone.

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And if we can marry up with some guns, great, if they're already there, great.

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But I flew for four and a half months.

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I was wounded on a night in secure medevac.

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But in those days, I was in a very good position.

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I was wounded for four and a half months.

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I was wounded on a night in secure medevac.

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But in those four and a half months, I can count on one hand the number of times we had guns.

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Yeah.

222
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Well, you mentioned that your tour was cut short.

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What happened with you?

224
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We had three seriously wounded 101st troopers, just a couple of clicks south of the DMZ.

225
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We had a second chest wound. We knew that he'd not make it till morning.

226
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So of course we went. No question.

227
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And the bad guys let me get in, let me get my three wounded on board.

228
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And then they opened up on me as we came out of the LZ.

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And I took one round in the arm, which severed some nerves.

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And that was enough to send me home.

231
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But I was an aircraft commander for four days.

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It proved my worth, but I didn't have a chance to use it very much.

233
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,000
Oh, that's a sad story after only four days.

234
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Because the aircraft commander was the goal of all pilots.

235
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:22,000
Oh, the epitome. Once you made aircraft commander, you were hot stuff for sure.

236
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At least for a little while.

237
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And then you came home and nobody cared.

238
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But you came home and you were a attack officer.

239
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Yeah, how'd you know that?

240
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I read. I read. I don't know.

241
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,000
I was already out of flight school when you came back.

242
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But to our audience, I have to explain.

243
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Attack officer is sort of like a drill sergeant for the Warren officer candidate.

244
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So walks.

245
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,000
Drill sergeant with bars. I loved every minute of it.

246
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:56,000
What color were you up there?

247
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,000
What color were you up there for, Walters?

248
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,000
We were white hats. Tenth walk was where I was attacked.

249
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,000
Okay. I was in the first one. I was a red hat.

250
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,000
Okay.

251
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:16,000
Nobody, unfortunately, nobody liked attack officers because it was their goal to make sure that we could actually become pilots and officers.

252
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And so they did everything they could to seem like to discourage us in that goal.

253
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But what it was, what I learned later, of course, I knew it going in, but towards the end of the first class that I had,

254
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Thelma says, can I speak to you frankly, sir?

255
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And I said, yeah, what do you want?

256
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And he said, we know you can't touch this. We know you can't hurt us or anything.

257
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But why do you have to yell at us? Why do you have to do this and that and the other?

258
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And I said, because when somebody's shooting at you, you better make the right decision instantly without even thinking.

259
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And you can't do that with me knowing that I can't touch you, that I can't hurt you.

260
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You're not going to be a helicopter pilot.

261
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:02,000
And he says, I never thought of that. And I said, that's why you're you and I'm me.

262
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:11,000
That is very true. I think if we had taken the time to learn what our attack officers had done,

263
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:22,000
it's like when I came back and became an instructor pilot and I found out that all the instructor pilots that I had had one, two, three tours and so on and so forth.

264
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In their background, it was so helpful, of course, at that time.

265
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:35,000
Well, I'm glad that you were able to come back and you continued working in aviation, didn't you?

266
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:41,000
Well, I was in the Ohio Guard for about four years, but now my career was motorcycle.

267
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Motorcycle dealership. But then once I retired, I became involved with American Huey 369 in Perot, Indiana,

268
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and where we restored three Vietnam Hueys back to flight and we're finishing up on a fourth one.

269
00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:05,000
Well, while we've got you on that topic, let's talk a little bit more about the American Huey 369 organization.

270
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You mentioned that you've restored three Hueys so far. Are they all D-models or gunships? What have you got?

271
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Well, we've got an H-model dust off bird that flew with the 498 dust off in Southern Icore.

272
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Then we've got a slick with the door guns that was with the Thunderbirds Warrior 11.

273
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And then our real pride and joy is a B-model gunship that flew for six years in Vietnam when the average Huey only lasted six months,

274
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and it escorted Crandall and Freeman into the Iodran Valley when they were awarded their medal upon it.

275
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So that aircraft has an incredible history. We were told it wasn't feasible, financially feasible to restore it,

276
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but when we realized the history of it, we said, no, we're going to restore it.

277
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And then ironically, the slick, Warrior 11 was a medevac where 15th med during the Iodran Valley.

278
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So we've got two very historic aircraft just simply by chance. So it's just been incredible and an honor to be flying this aircraft again.

279
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:28,000
And then we've got another H-model that will be our VIP bird. It was donated to us in perfectly good, viable condition.

280
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We just got to make sure the FAA puts a blessing on it.

281
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:39,000
Yes. And people can, you go around the country, I know you're around the Midwest quite a bit, giving rides to people,

282
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:47,000
different veterans outings and events and so forth. Where is American Huey 369 located?

283
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:52,000
Well, we're in Peru, Indiana, which is about an hour drive north of Indianapolis.

284
00:25:52,000 --> 00:26:02,000
Normally, we're in Indiana and surrounding states, but we've flown to Las Vegas, we've flown to Louisiana, Connecticut and Canada,

285
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:10,000
but one time or another. But mostly, we're in the Midwest. We usually do 15 to 18 events every summer.

286
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And we're a 501C3 charitable organization. So for $100 donation, you get a flight in Huey with the doors open.

287
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:23,000
Now, you can't sit on the floor anymore. We've got to put your seats and seatbelts.

288
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,000
Oh, no.

289
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:30,000
Yeah, but it's an incredible flight. Everybody gets off the aircraft with a big smile on their face.

290
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:38,000
A lot of Vietnam veterans are crew. So it's pretty amazing and a lot of healing.

291
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But we're there to educate the public, especially the youth. And it's just an incredible feeling to know how many people appreciate those Hueys.

292
00:26:52,000 --> 00:27:00,000
Well, I know, I witnessed you guys up in Hamburg, Michigan. I think it was just last year.

293
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,000
Yeah, we've been there a few times.

294
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:03,000
I got there too late to get the ride.

295
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,000
And then St. Joe on the coast, north W.

296
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:17,000
No, so it's great. And hopefully maybe this maybe next summer, you guys will be able to get out there again and start offering the rides and do the whole thing.

297
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,000
And this year was cut short, obviously.

298
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:31,000
Yeah, obviously, I would say so. I'm going to take a real quick break right now. And when we come back, we're talking with Phil Marshall, his book is helicopter rescues in Vietnam.

299
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And we're going to start talking about some of those incredible rescues. So I want to make sure that you all stay tuned. You're listening to Veteran Radio and we will be right back.

300
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:09,000
Crandall made several routine flights into the I-Triang Valley in November of 1965, transporting a battalion of troops.

301
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:17,000
Suddenly, the ground troops came under a massive attack from the NVA. On Crandall's next flight, three soldiers on board were killed and three wounded.

302
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:21,000
But he remained on the line of fire so four wounded men could be loaded on his chopper.

303
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:28,000
Crandall, along with Captain Ed Freeman, continued to make supply runs into the battle zone and airlift wounded out.

304
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:34,000
During the course of the day, he flew three different choppers, with two of them so badly damaged they could no longer fly.

305
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:40,000
At the end of the day, it evacuated 70 wounded men and brought in supplies which helped the battalion to survive.

306
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:50,000
Freeman was awarded the Medal of Honor in July of 2001. President Bush awarded the Medal of Honor to Crandall on February 26, 2007.

307
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The Medal of Honor series is a production of Veterans Radio.

308
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Are you a veteran or a military spouse interested in starting or growing an existing business? Then you want to connect with VetBiz Central,

309
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:08,000
Michigan's only veteran business resource center providing free one-on-one business counseling services, including research plans and preparing veterans to be lender ready.

310
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:13,000
If you're in business, VetBiz Central offers comprehensive strategic marketing strategies to help you connect to corporations.

311
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:20,000
They are one of 20 centers nationwide devoted to veteran business development through the U.S. Small Business Administration Office of Veteran Business Development.

312
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:34,000
If you have a VA claim denied by the Board of Veterans Appeals, contact Legal Help for Veterans at 1-800-693-4800.

313
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:42,000
They're experts in handling cases before the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims. Their number again, 1-800-693-4800.

314
00:29:42,000 --> 00:30:04,000
And we're back here on Veterans Radio and we are talking with Phil Marshall, the author of a series of books.

315
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:13,000
Phil, you're on volume 12 right now, Helicopter Rescues in Vietnam, True Stories of Daring Helicopter Rescues, as told by the men who flew them.

316
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:17,000
I don't even know where to start, Phil. So many of these.

317
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,000
Can I finish with one thing real quick, please?

318
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:21,000
Sure.

319
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:31,000
Talking about American Huey 369, we are building a Huey Museum. It's not a Vietnam Museum. As far as we know, the only Huey Museum in the world.

320
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:37,000
And Bell Helicopter is not giving us not one cent of assistance. It's all grassroots.

321
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:47,000
So if your audience would go to AmericanHuey369.com, tell you everything you need to know about the organization, about the museum that we're building.

322
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:56,000
But right now we're in donated temporary housing, a hangar, and they tell us they're going to be tearing the building down here in the next year or two.

323
00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:01,000
We're starting before we were really ready on building our Huey Museum.

324
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:05,000
So donations are needed to complete it.

325
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:17,000
And anyone that's interested in preserving our history and the history of the Huey, and of course, what says Vietnam more than a Huey helicopter, it's really needed and much appreciated.

326
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:21,000
Absolutely. And we will do everything we can to help that out.

327
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,000
We'll put a link on our website so that people can go and look about there on the website.

328
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:30,000
There on the AmericanHuey369.com.

329
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:39,000
We need to preserve these aircraft and as well as the museum and the talking about, you know, we got to go.

330
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:43,000
I got to talk to Bell Helicopter.

331
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:54,000
That's ridiculous. I mean, considering how many of those things that we, well, we did break a couple, but other than that,

332
00:31:54,000 --> 00:32:02,000
anyway, well, maybe we'll, somebody listening may know somebody at Bell Helicopter and maybe we can get the word out to those people to help out.

333
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:12,000
We don't have a corporate sponsor yet, and we're willing to name and include a corporate sponsor's name in the museum.

334
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:19,000
So, yeah, like I say, we're going to build it and we're breaking ground next spring, but it won't be complete.

335
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,000
It's just going to be enough to house the current aircraft.

336
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:27,000
Well, like I said, Phil, we'll do what we can to raise some funds for you.

337
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,000
I'm sure you will.

338
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:37,000
I'm sure I will too. So I want to talk, I have a friend who was, I want to talk about one of your stories and one of them when I thought was really interesting was about the Chinooks.

339
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,000
Now, I never ran into too many Chinooks, luckily.

340
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:51,000
And actually, the quick version of the story is the only place I ran into a Chinook was at a naval base called Nabe down in Fort Worth.

341
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:57,000
Nabe down in Fort Core where people would sometimes go for lunch because the Navy always had the best food.

342
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:04,000
It's not like we worked a regular job, but when they say go away, come back in half an hour.

343
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:17,000
Anyway, we went down there and there were Chinooks lined up and there were gunships and there were Hueys and there were Navy sea wolves and all this other stuff all lined up to eat at this chow hall for the Navy.

344
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:22,000
Now that one of the Chinooks came my tack officer.

345
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:23,000
Okay.

346
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:24,000
Yeah.

347
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:31,000
CW3 at the time, Berger just looked at me, sort of recognized me and I said, oh, Chief Berger, how are you doing?

348
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:35,000
He goes, oh, you're still alive.

349
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,000
Yeah, some of them we had doubts about, didn't we?

350
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:39,000
Yes, we did.

351
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:43,000
And I said, well, it's good to see you too.

352
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,000
Moving right along.

353
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:54,000
But anyhow, so I do, I have a friend who was a crew chief on a Chinook and one of your stories in here was about a Chinook.

354
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,000
And I wondered if you could share that with our audience.

355
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:58,000
Okay.

356
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,000
Now, which one, which one are we talking about now?

357
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:02,000
Oh, which one?

358
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,000
I knew you'd ask that question as I go through all of them.

359
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I've done a lot of Chinook stories.

360
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,000
Okay.

361
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,000
I'll find it here as we talk.

362
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:12,000
Okay.

363
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,000
Because I'm looking too.

364
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,000
There's an escape and evasion in Vietnam.

365
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,000
I took a round through the helmet.

366
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:26,000
Getting one over.

367
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,000
All right, I'm, you know, radio can never have silence.

368
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,000
Oh, here we go.

369
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:31,000
All right.

370
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:36,000
So it's a sea night and it is Mission 18, Marine ASRT flight February 5th, 1969.

371
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:37,000
Yeah, Mr. Pratt.

372
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,000
Fred Pratt, correct.

373
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:40,000
Yeah, yeah.

374
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:45,000
He was a Marine pilot, I believe, when they, that make a difference.

375
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:55,000
But they did some, some new tech radar and that is ASRT guys trying to remember what

376
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:56,000
it stood for.

377
00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:06,000
Anyway, they were able to put them over a besieged Arvin base.

378
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,000
They were able to drop supplies to them.

379
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,000
They didn't see them.

380
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:19,000
They didn't, they didn't, but this new fangled radar was able to put them miles away over

381
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:25,000
this, believe your beleaguered Arvin base and resupply them and they were able to defend

382
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,000
off the enemy long enough to be rescued.

383
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,000
But it was just something that had never been done before.

384
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:36,000
And as a pilot, I don't know if I would want to trust something like that or not.

385
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:40,000
They just put them right over the, and they were in the mountains, by the way, too.

386
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,000
They just put them right over the drop zone.

387
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:48,000
They dropped the supplies to them and they were able to survive the war, at least that

388
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:49,000
battle.

389
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:54,000
It was called the Air Support Radar Teams and it would guide bombers for pinpoint ordinance

390
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:55,000
delivery.

391
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:56,000
Yeah.

392
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:05,000
And maybe you can tell the audience how much instrument training that we had as pilots.

393
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:10,000
We didn't have to get ourselves killed.

394
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:16,000
Yeah, we, I don't know, what was it, four weeks of instrument training and...

395
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:21,000
And there was four weeks we would fly under, you know, we had this hood over our head that

396
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:25,000
we couldn't see the ground, couldn't see outside the aircraft.

397
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:26,000
Yep.

398
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:27,000
Yep.

399
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:33,000
And it was enough to give you a little bit of confidence, but unless we practiced it

400
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:40,000
often in country, which a lot of us rarely did, you would lose that skill and you could

401
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:47,000
very easily get vertigo and both pilots could get vertigo and it's all over when you get

402
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,000
in that position.

403
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:50,000
Right.

404
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:54,000
And you mentioned in the book that there were a lot of, unfortunately, helicopter crashes

405
00:36:54,000 --> 00:37:02,000
where people did get into IFR, that's instrument flying, situations where they did end up,

406
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:07,000
you know, flying into a mountain or into each other even, unfortunately.

407
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:12,000
Yeah, your inner ear tells you one thing and the instruments tell you another and you have

408
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:16,000
to believe those instruments, but you know, for all your life, you've believed your inner

409
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:23,000
ear and when that conflict sets in, I could say you're, as you well know, you're in big

410
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,000
trouble because you just, you're so used to trusting your inner ear and the instruments

411
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,000
are telling you something different, you don't want to believe it.

412
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:31,000
No.

413
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:36,000
Yeah, when I went through the, that was the hardest part of flight school for me was that

414
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:37,000
instrument flying.

415
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:38,000
Yeah, I would agree.

416
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:39,000
I would agree.

417
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:40,000
Yeah.

418
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:45,000
And they told me that, you know, even when we did the, well, what was it, simulator, you

419
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:46,000
know.

420
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:47,000
Oh yeah, I hated that.

421
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:53,400
Where they would put us in this little shoe box type of thing with all the instruments

422
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:57,000
in the aircraft and then they would, you know, go this way and go that way and stuff.

423
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:01,000
I flew right off the edge of the earth, the link trainer and it was left over from World

424
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:02,000
War II.

425
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,000
Right.

426
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:04,000
Yes.

427
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:05,000
Yeah.

428
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,000
So, but they needed pilots and so this is what they, this is what they got.

429
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:13,500
Um, talk a little, I want to talk about, I don't want to run out of time here for sure.

430
00:38:13,500 --> 00:38:16,000
I want to talk about Charles Simmons.

431
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,000
This is story number, number 22.

432
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:19,000
Yeah.

433
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:20,000
Yeah.

434
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,880
And the reason I wanted to talk about this just real quickly is that there was another

435
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:29,720
example that we had on Veterans Radio back in, oh boy, this is a long time ago now.

436
00:38:29,720 --> 00:38:32,120
We had a program called Left for Dead.

437
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,400
And in this story we had, it was actually a member of my company, but it was before

438
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,120
I got there and it was Wendell Skinner.

439
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:46,280
And Wendell Skinner on the night of 29 January, right around the same time of 1968, when they,

440
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:51,480
uh, aircraft crashed and the aircraft rolled over on Wendell and he, unfortunately he was

441
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:57,440
left out there and they all, you know, they went back because there was all kinds of gunfire

442
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,840
and all this other stuff and smoke and ash and so on.

443
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:05,440
Got back to the company area and the company commander who was a major Earl Carlson found

444
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:09,000
out about that and he just went through the roof and he said, you know, you never leave

445
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,360
anybody out on the field, whether they're dead or alive, you go and get them.

446
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:19,880
And he went out and got, and went out with a brand new Peter pilot, um, and got Wendell.

447
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:25,960
I mean, they were able to lift the aircraft off of him and, uh, bring him back and they

448
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,880
never saw each other ever again after that.

449
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:29,880
Yeah.

450
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,560
So that's the reason for the preface to this story of Charles Simmons.

451
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:35,520
So go your turn.

452
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:36,720
All right.

453
00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:42,880
First day of Tet, uh, another B model gunship, uh, Charles Simmons is a trained, uh, crew

454
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:48,320
chief and, uh, his first day in the unit, they say, you're flying tomorrow.

455
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:53,040
And so they put him as a door gunner, uh, in, in the B model and it was the first day

456
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:54,040
of Tet.

457
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:55,600
They get shot down.

458
00:39:55,600 --> 00:40:01,720
Um, the, uh, the enemy was about 40 or 50 troops were, uh, where they landed.

459
00:40:01,720 --> 00:40:05,600
It was an emergency auto rotation, put the aircraft on the ground.

460
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:06,600
No problem.

461
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:11,480
Uh, jumped into a bomb crater of the four crewmen and held off the enemy as long as

462
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,280
they could until they just finally ran out of ammunition.

463
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:21,920
So they gave up the enemy, um, set fire to the aircraft, the rocket start, uh, going

464
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:23,640
off ammunition.

465
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:29,600
So everybody scatters the co-pilot and the crew chief what with one group of about half

466
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:35,880
of that 40 or 50, the aircraft commander and the first day door gunner goes off with another

467
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:41,760
group when, uh, the, the cavalry shows up, uh, another gunship from their platoon about

468
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:48,600
30 minutes an hour after they, uh, they crashed, uh, they, uh, see the bad guys and they start

469
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:50,400
shooting at them.

470
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:58,120
And, uh, the group of enemy that had the, the co-pilot and the, uh, crew chief executed

471
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:04,760
them, the group that had the aircraft commander and the door gunner scattered while those

472
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:10,880
two, uh, Americans dove into another bomb crater, put their hands over their head.

473
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,720
So the, the gunships would know not to shoot at them.

474
00:41:14,720 --> 00:41:18,920
And in the meantime, uh, they're, they're taking out, uh, the gunships are taking out

475
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,160
as many of the enemy as they can.

476
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:25,160
They land to pick up the two survivors and they take them back.

477
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:26,560
There's minor injuries.

478
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:32,360
So they're separated and, uh, everybody forgets about this brand new guy that was the, his

479
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,320
first day and only day of flying in Vietnam.

480
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,760
He was relegated to the maintenance hangar.

481
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:42,920
He said he worked on loaches his whole tour at night in the, in the maintenance hangar.

482
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:48,000
And so when the aircraft commander gets assigned to another unit, like you say, he never sees

483
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,320
his, his door gunner.

484
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:56,440
And after many, many years, uh, a lady by the name of Kathy Cox, who, uh, is an officer

485
00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:01,160
in the daughters of the American revolution found out about Charles Simmons, the door

486
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:02,160
gunner.

487
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:08,480
And, um, they helped get him a prisoner of war medal because they were prisoners of war

488
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,520
for about an hour.

489
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:15,560
And so, uh, Kathy heard about me and she asked me if I was interested in his story.

490
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:21,520
And of course I was because they were rescued by helicopters and, uh, American Huey 369

491
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:27,200
again, uh, we had an event in August where we officially presented Mr. Simmons with

492
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,320
his POW medal because he just received it in the mail.

493
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:34,040
And those citation, the letter, no nothing just up, you know, here's your medal, you

494
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,720
know, where, where, you know, whatever.

495
00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:42,560
And we made sure that there were about 30 men in uniform to salute him, uh, and honor

496
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:47,640
him for his, uh, for his, um, being a POW.

497
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:52,800
Well, the story is, is much, you're going to have to get the book folks.

498
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:56,120
I'm not more involved story.

499
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,640
There's so much more to what I would I told you.

500
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,920
He couldn't talk about it to his family because he couldn't prove it.

501
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:03,520
I was, I was POW for an hour.

502
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:04,520
I can't prove it.

503
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:05,520
So he just, he just, he just, he just, he just, he just, he just, he just, he just

504
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:06,520
had a problem.

505
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:12,920
But you had involved, you got, uh, I think his name is Captain Bob, uh, Babcock.

506
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:13,920
Yeah.

507
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:21,240
Captain Bob Cack, Bob Babcock was the aircraft commander and, uh, I asked him, uh, he's

508
00:43:21,240 --> 00:43:22,240
living in Indonesia.

509
00:43:22,240 --> 00:43:24,680
I asked him, I said, do you know who the crew was that picked you up?

510
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:25,680
And he goes, oh yeah.

511
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:30,000
He says it was Wonder Warthog, Bob, uh, Tom Merrilline.

512
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,120
And I said, oh, do you know how to get ahold of him?

513
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,760
And he says, well, he was killed during, during the second tour.

514
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:38,360
And I go, well, crap, maybe I can find the, the co-pilot.

515
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:42,800
So I'm, I'm writing the story for the book and I decide, well, wonder what the story

516
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,120
is on, on Merrilline being killed the second tour.

517
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:51,000
I looked him up in the, uh, Vietnam helicopter pilots directory and the guys living in New

518
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:52,000
Jersey.

519
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:57,600
Uh, the, uh, the, uh, the account of his demise was, was exaggerated.

520
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:02,120
And so I was able to get, uh, part of the story, uh, how they were picked up or how

521
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:05,040
they picked up, uh, the POWs.

522
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,800
And it's just an absolutely incredible story.

523
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:12,280
Uh, when you get all the details, how everything just happened to fit together.

524
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:13,280
Right.

525
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:18,720
And I wanted to, uh, I really wanted to congratulate you on this story because you track down, uh,

526
00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:25,680
the relatives of the, uh, crew chief, uh, Delgado and also a Warren Arsler Lee, the

527
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,720
ones that were executed by the other group of East North.

528
00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:30,720
Yeah.

529
00:44:30,720 --> 00:44:31,720
Yeah.

530
00:44:31,720 --> 00:44:32,720
Yeah.

531
00:44:32,720 --> 00:44:33,720
Yeah.

532
00:44:33,720 --> 00:44:35,560
Well, Kathy Cox did a lot of that.

533
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,160
She did a lot of that.

534
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:41,200
And, and I was able to put it together and put it in print.

535
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:46,360
Uh, Charles Simmons asked Kathy, you know, could you help me tell my story?

536
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:51,880
And when she heard about me, she says, yeah, you, I found somebody that'll tell your story.

537
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:57,960
So, uh, uh, yeah, it was a lot of research on my part on, but mostly on Kathy's part.

538
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:01,520
She, uh, she, she laid the groundwork and I was able to put the finishing touches on

539
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:02,520
it.

540
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,040
Well, it, it, it's a great story.

541
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,160
And I, again, I encourage people to go out and get these books.

542
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,760
You can start going backward with volume 12.

543
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:17,040
You can start anywhere, just like Rear's Digest, but there's no, there's no advertising

544
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:18,040
in it.

545
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:19,640
Uh, no, and I don't know what's for it.

546
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,280
If you want, uh, and if you like it, you'll like all of them.

547
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:23,920
And I think, I think that you will.

548
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:29,240
I wanted to, uh, go back to one of my, um, I don't know what my attraction is with Chinooks

549
00:45:29,240 --> 00:45:30,240
today.

550
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:32,640
Um, this would, this would be mission nine.

551
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:35,480
This is called mission into Laos.

552
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:37,480
Okay.

553
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:44,440
This is a kind of a, a weather story as, as, as we mentioned before where they were setting

554
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:48,920
up, they were attempting to, uh, I don't even know how big a Chinook is.

555
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:50,560
I think it's huge.

556
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:51,960
That's big.

557
00:45:51,960 --> 00:46:01,080
Um, and they were, they were sent on this mission to, to pick up, uh, actually, I think

558
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:02,080
it was to resupply.

559
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:03,880
Pick up some Marines.

560
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:04,880
Right.

561
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:05,880
Yeah.

562
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,320
And if you wouldn't tell them where they were, they just said, go to these coordinates

563
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:12,240
and you'll have some Marine gunships escort you.

564
00:46:12,240 --> 00:46:18,560
And, uh, uh, as it turns out, uh, they were in Laos and, uh, what, uh, in, in the very

565
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:22,640
first book that I did, one of my medics, uh, told me about a pickup they made in Laos.

566
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:26,160
Uh, he said, there was no billboard saying, welcome to Laos.

567
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:30,240
We just knew that was where the down crew was and they went after them.

568
00:46:30,240 --> 00:46:34,400
And when they, it was an Air Force, uh, a four F four.

569
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:38,360
And when they got back, the Air Force threw them a party and the army was going to give

570
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,720
them an article 15 for going into Laos.

571
00:46:40,720 --> 00:46:41,920
Now go figure.

572
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:43,560
Well, I can understand that.

573
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:47,160
There was another instance where, where they just followed blindly, followed the Marine

574
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:52,520
gunships, uh, into Laos and, uh, had to drop down through a hole in the clouds to, uh, to

575
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:54,800
get their, their wounded.

576
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:56,480
I was, I was thinking about that.

577
00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:01,280
I just, uh, a quick example was that we would, uh, many of the missions of, of my company

578
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:09,280
was to take, um, uh, we worked with Lerps and so forth with McVease, so we would head

579
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:12,920
off across the fences I used to, we used to call it.

580
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:13,920
Yep.

581
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:14,920
Yep.

582
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:18,120
And as we would approach the fence, it seemed like almost daily, some Air Force guy would

583
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:21,560
come over guard radio, which was Paris control.

584
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:22,560
Yeah.

585
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:26,240
And they would say aircraft heading west out of, or north out of Bouddop, be advised

586
00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:27,760
you're crossing the fence.

587
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:28,760
Yeah.

588
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,040
And we're going, well, why don't you just tell them we're coming?

589
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:32,040
Yeah.

590
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:37,760
Because the bad guy, bad guys did monitor our frequencies for sure.

591
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:43,000
And you know, and anyway, that's the type of thing.

592
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,640
You know, and as you, as this story goes on, because they were going in and there were,

593
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:51,480
there were cloud cover, there was everything and it kind of got in there somehow by going

594
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:58,680
down through a hole in the clouds and we're able to fit this gigantic double wide trailer

595
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,200
into this landing zone.

596
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:02,200
Yep.

597
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:04,640
It's as big as the semi trailer.

598
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:08,880
And then after they picked those guys up, they thought the Marines were going to escort

599
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:10,840
them back and they said, oh wait, we got another one for you.

600
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:12,440
We need you to pick up some more.

601
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,720
Yeah, but they don't, and they didn't have any guns on the second one.

602
00:48:15,720 --> 00:48:16,720
I'm sorry.

603
00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:18,960
I said they didn't have any guns on one of those.

604
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:19,960
No.

605
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:21,680
Because they ran out of fuel.

606
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:22,680
Yep.

607
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:23,680
Yeah.

608
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:28,560
As much as I love the guns, they always seem to run out of fuel in opportune times.

609
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:29,560
Yeah.

610
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:30,560
Yeah.

611
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:37,640
Well, it was getting close to half an hour, you know.

612
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:39,400
I don't know anything about that.

613
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:40,400
Yeah.

614
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,120
None of us know anything about that.

615
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:44,120
No.

616
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:49,120
I thought that the mission in Laos was, was, was quite the story and, and some of the other

617
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:55,680
ones in here where you've got loaches flying around and again for our audience, a loach

618
00:48:55,680 --> 00:49:02,000
is, is, it looks like an egg and, but the thing could go fast and it was almost indestructible.

619
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,440
It was incredibly maneuverable.

620
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:05,440
Yeah.

621
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:09,400
And I had a friend of, that's been one of the nice things about the books.

622
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,400
It's not just Huey, it's everything.

623
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:15,560
There's a Pedro, Air Force Pedro story, a couple of those in there.

624
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:19,640
Loach rescues the, the Chinooks, the Cobras.

625
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:22,240
You can imagine Cobras pulling one of the guys out.

626
00:49:22,240 --> 00:49:23,240
Oh, I know.

627
00:49:23,240 --> 00:49:28,120
We did a story about a Cobra guy whose tail boom was blown off.

628
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:29,120
Yeah.

629
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:30,120
A missile missile.

630
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:31,120
Yep.

631
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:32,120
They got hit by a missile.

632
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:35,240
That, that spoiler alert, that story will be in book number 15.

633
00:49:35,240 --> 00:49:36,240
Oh, okay.

634
00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:41,800
And I think it's, if you go to veteransradio.net and you go, go get in the search thing, you

635
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:44,000
might find the interview we did with the guy.

636
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:45,000
Yeah.

637
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:46,240
Brown, is that his name?

638
00:49:46,240 --> 00:49:47,720
I believe, I believe so.

639
00:49:47,720 --> 00:49:48,720
I believe so.

640
00:49:48,720 --> 00:49:49,720
Yeah.

641
00:49:49,720 --> 00:49:55,000
It's been a story for years, but it, it wasn't really a helicopter rescue, except they were

642
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:56,000
rescued.

643
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:57,500
So I guess that's it.

644
00:49:57,500 --> 00:49:59,440
Oh, because it was so unbelievable.

645
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:04,620
Again, to our audience, to understand how these aircraft stayed in the air sometimes

646
00:50:04,620 --> 00:50:06,120
with missing parts.

647
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:08,800
I mean, the whole tail boom's gone.

648
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:13,560
You know, you would end up with so many bullet holes in the aircraft, but it would miss everything

649
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:17,120
and missed all the crew and, and everything else and you'd land.

650
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:21,560
And it was almost like a, you know, a Laurel and Hardy comedy where you'd land and almost

651
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:24,400
the blades would just fall off.

652
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:25,400
Yeah.

653
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:26,400
Yeah.

654
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:27,400
Yeah.

655
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:31,240
Well, we lost half the helicopters that were in Vietnam.

656
00:50:31,240 --> 00:50:32,740
Yes, true.

657
00:50:32,740 --> 00:50:33,740
Yeah.

658
00:50:33,740 --> 00:50:34,740
Yeah.

659
00:50:34,740 --> 00:50:35,740
Half of them.

660
00:50:35,740 --> 00:50:37,760
Again, six months was the average Huey.

661
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:38,760
Wow.

662
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:39,760
Six months.

663
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:40,760
Yeah.

664
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:45,160
Over, over 3000 helicopters were lost during the, during the war.

665
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:49,080
I think I've gotten, I've got that number around here somewhere too.

666
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:50,080
Yeah.

667
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:51,080
Yeah.

668
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:52,080
Yeah.

669
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:57,840
My claw and Gary Roush from the VHPA have compiled all those numbers.

670
00:50:57,840 --> 00:50:58,840
Right.

671
00:50:58,840 --> 00:50:59,840
They did.

672
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:01,040
And I do, I do have that.

673
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:08,080
I think it's a, I just want our audience to understand that these pilots that, that Phil

674
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:11,720
is talking about the average age was 22.

675
00:51:11,720 --> 00:51:16,440
Well, if you remember, most of us were 1920 and 21.

676
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:17,440
Right.

677
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:18,440
That was the old guys who brought that average up.

678
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:23,320
The guys were the officers, the, the real live officers, the lieutenants and captains

679
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:29,160
and majors that had some more training than, than what we had as far as the army was concerned.

680
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:31,520
Give me 60 seconds real quick.

681
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:32,520
Tell you a story.

682
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:33,520
Okay.

683
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:34,520
You got it.

684
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:35,520
Okay.

685
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:39,120
One of the 19 year old pilots, you could go into flight school right out of high school.

686
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:42,440
A year later, you're, you're flying helicopters in Vietnam.

687
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:47,280
This guy was from Southern California, 19 years old, 20 when he got back and he says,

688
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:51,280
I got my greens, my dress greens on all my medals, my wings and everything.

689
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,080
And he says, I realized my driver's license has expired.

690
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:59,200
So he goes down to the DMV to get his driver's license renewed and they wouldn't renew it

691
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:00,520
because he wasn't 21.

692
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:03,200
He had to go home and get his mother to sign for him.

693
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:05,720
Oh, that doesn't surprise me.

694
00:52:05,720 --> 00:52:07,720
Can you believe that?

695
00:52:07,720 --> 00:52:13,280
But things like that are why 18 year olds can vote today because as you know, we couldn't

696
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,840
vote while we were in Vietnam unless we were 21.

697
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:17,240
You had to be 21 to vote.

698
00:52:17,240 --> 00:52:22,480
But finally, Congress, one of the few right things they've done is if you're old enough

699
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:24,760
to fight for your country, you should be old enough to vote.

700
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:30,080
So that's why 18 year olds can vote today because we couldn't vote in Vietnam.

701
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:31,080
I was, I was an older guy.

702
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:32,080
I was 20.

703
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:33,080
How old was I?

704
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:34,080
Six.

705
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:35,080
I was 22.

706
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:37,560
I was 21 because I had a couple of years of college.

707
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:38,560
Yes.

708
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:39,560
Yeah.

709
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:42,560
We won't go there.

710
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:49,600
Now, those two years of college weren't all all A's and B's.

711
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:51,280
I didn't have the grades to go back.

712
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:54,040
They said, maybe perhaps you should pursue another career.

713
00:52:54,040 --> 00:53:00,520
So you decided that you were going to become a helicopter pilot.

714
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:05,040
And I know there are many similar stories out there.

715
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:06,040
Exactly that same thing.

716
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:11,360
And if you were like some of them, you probably might have sent a letter back to your school

717
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:16,840
that wouldn't let you continue and say, yeah, yeah, here, this is what I did.

718
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:17,840
Yeah.

719
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:18,840
I finally got my degree.

720
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:21,840
It just doesn't say I'll have state on it.

721
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:22,840
Oh, well.

722
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:23,840
Yeah.

723
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:27,560
Well, I won't go there either since we live in Michigan now.

724
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:28,560
Yeah, I'm sorry.

725
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:31,320
Yeah, I shouldn't have mentioned that.

726
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:33,080
No, that's all right.

727
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:36,800
I live in a house that is represented by both schools.

728
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:37,800
Oh, OK.

729
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:38,800
All right.

730
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:39,800
All right.

731
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,400
That sounds like a personal problem.

732
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:46,120
We are coming up on the top of the hour now, Phil.

733
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:51,760
And I want to make sure, again, that people understand that this is just one book of 20

734
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:53,160
approximate stories.

735
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:57,200
And each one is more exciting than the other.

736
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:00,440
And I would encourage our audience to go out and get these.

737
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:07,360
And I'm assuming they are they available on Amazon and Amazon if you just no special

738
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:09,680
spelling still Marshall Vietnam.

739
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:15,280
If you search Phil Marshall Vietnam, all the books will come up and just pick one out.

740
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:18,320
And if you like it, you'll like all the others to guarantee it.

741
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:19,320
I think they will.

742
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:23,560
And again, I encourage people to read these stories because these are these are amazing.

743
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:28,840
I mean, the one of the things that the military taught me and probably taught Phil and so

744
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:32,400
many of the others that the mutual respect we have for each other.

745
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:33,400
Yeah.

746
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:36,920
Whether you're on the ground or you're in the air, everybody had your six.

747
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:39,160
I mean, everybody had your back.

748
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:41,880
And it was all for one and one for all.

749
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:45,440
And we never let anybody down if it could be avoided.

750
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:48,160
And if we went down, they'd come and get us.

751
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:51,960
And if they had ran into trouble, we would go and get them.

752
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:54,240
And so I want to make sure our audience is aware of that.

753
00:54:54,240 --> 00:55:02,880
And some of the stories in there, too, and it's it's actually trying to say here, many

754
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:09,120
of the stories that I've been able to document have never been printed anywhere else.

755
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:14,320
We just started doing a program here in the Ann Arbor called There I Was.

756
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:18,560
And we're trying to record as many stories as we can get these guys.

757
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:21,080
Because suddenly we're the oldest generation now.

758
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,480
And we got to make sure that we don't let these guys get away.

759
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:24,480
Yeah, for sure.

760
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:25,480
For sure.

761
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:26,480
Yeah.

762
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:28,880
So I want to thank you very much for being on our program, Phil.

763
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:33,440
And I can't wait to have you back on again after I get a whole supply of my other books

764
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:35,960
that will up to 11.

765
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:37,600
I'll fix you up.

766
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:38,600
Okay.

767
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:39,600
And we'll figure that out.

768
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:41,080
But thanks very much for being on Veterans Radio.

769
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:43,520
And maybe I'll see you down in Indiana soon.

770
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:44,520
Thank you so much.

771
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:45,520
Thank you.

772
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:46,520
All right.

773
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:47,520
Thank you.

774
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:51,720
All right, folks, we'll come up to the end of another Veterans Radio program.

775
00:55:51,720 --> 00:55:53,000
And I hope you enjoyed it.

776
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:57,240
If you have any suggestions for programming, please give us a call or send me an email

777
00:55:57,240 --> 00:55:59,760
at dalevetrendradio.net.

778
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:01,280
And we will try to get them on.

779
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:03,160
We want to thank you all very much for listening.

780
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:06,120
We want to thank our sponsors, of course.

781
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:10,200
And if you have any comments, please go to veteransradio.net and put them down there.

782
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:13,560
And we will try to improve the program if you think it needs improving.

783
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:16,800
Or just let us know what you want us to do.

784
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:18,120
Next week, Jim Fousone will be on.

785
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:19,680
He's got two stories about women veterans.

786
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:21,960
And I think that you'll find very interesting.

787
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:24,760
So until next week, this is Dale Throneberry.

788
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:52,320
You are dismissed.