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We want to welcome back to VeteransRadio today.
Brigadier General Retard, Doug Odie Slocum.
General, welcome back to VeteransRadio.
Jim, it's great to be back. How are you doing today?
Well, really good. And for those who are wondering, we talked to the general before,
in his role as president of the Michigan Air and Space Force Association, AFA, the Michigan chapter.
But this time, we're going to focus on something that he just recently did,
and that is publish a book called Violent Positivity of Viter's Pilots' Journey,
Leadership Lessons on Caring for People.
General, this had to be a labor of love. I think it's 300-plus pages.
Yeah, it is. It actually was started off as an idea of the things I used to travel and teach
around the military and around some of our allies around the world.
And I found out as I did it, I kind of had to write it the other way around,
which was the path of how I got to doing what I was doing.
So it's a lot of life lessons that ultimately didn't talk about all the cool things we were able to do,
especially here in the Michigan area, the commander itself,
which caring for people, doing good things.
Well, I want to give people a little more of your background than we were able to do last time,
where we focused on AFA and remind folks that you were a command pilot.
You had over 4,000 flight hours.
You've flown aircraft from the F-4, the F-16, the A-10.
So you had quite a history of flying, but in doing a little research,
you even refer to yourself as a military brat. Tell us why.
Well, military brat has actually nothing to do with my service.
That means my dad was in the military.
So I grew up in that military lifestyle, moving all around different places around the world.
And living under that type of culture and everything else.
And it's a unique experience. Anybody who has grown up as the dependent of somebody in the military
understands that term of being a military brat.
Yeah, I've had a chance to talk to some folks who are.
And actually, there's a big percentage of people who fit that category,
and it's something to be proud of because you had a pretty unusual career before the military,
if you want to call it that, from life experiences.
Because I assume that you went to all different bases.
Did you also go overseas?
We did. Some of the stuff I get to talk about in the book is as a young kid,
being in Germany during the height of the Cold War, when Berlin was a split city.
And we actually traveled by train to Berlin.
And we spent some time there.
And I have some very vivid memories of that, standing against the Berlin Wall.
We even took a bus trip and went into East Berlin.
I actually have some old color slide photos of Brandenburg Gate from the other side.
I know it's unique types of experiences you get being a military brat.
Yeah, it's actually an education you were getting.
You didn't even realize it, I suspect, at the time.
That you got to see the world. You got to see other cultures, hear other languages, eat other foods.
I mean, for a kid growing up, it can be hard because you're moving, you make friends, and you move again.
But you also get to experience a lot of things, don't you?
You're exactly right.
When we came back to the States later on, we were at Travis Air Force Base.
And I can remember my dad dragging me out to the flight line one day.
And I didn't want to go. I'm a young kid.
But we were waiting for a plane to land. There were cameras around.
A witness finally does transport plane taxis in and it takes a little while and people start getting off.
And there's families around and they're running up and hugging them.
At the time, I really didn't want to be there.
But what my dad took me to witness was the first stage of Operation Homecoming after the Vietnam War,
when our POWs were returning to the continental United States.
And man, what just a little imprint on a young kid and what an impression that can make.
And really, for our younger listening audience, Operation Homecoming was just that it was a massive effort
to return prisoners of war from Vietnam.
And so I'm sure that left a sort of a deep impression on you about not leaving men behind,
even if they had spent years in POW concentration camps all over the world,
but here in particular in Vietnam. So that had to be pretty impactful.
Well, it was. And it's part of why I tell that I ended up joining the military.
Because a lot of these experiences, whether it was Berlin, Travis, just the two examples that I used there,
that told me that there was good and bad. There was right and wrong.
And it was very clear in my brain that I was going to choose to be in the military to uphold the good things.
One of the ways you get there, and I want to talk a little bit about this,
because I think it's been somewhat lost in today's generation who think, man,
there's no way I can go to college. You graduated from East Carolina University.
But importantly, you went through the ROTC program, the Reserve Officer Training Corps,
where you graduated in 1984. But tell us a little bit about the values that you got out of ROTC
that stuck with you for your entire career. Well, there's a lot of lessons on many sides.
Obviously, just from a curriculum standpoint, being able to learn about the Air Force,
between your sophomore and junior year, you go to a summer camp, which is very impactful.
Kind of like a basic training, if you will, for officer candidates.
One of the most meaningful things I ever remember was my very first semester in ROTC,
a young captain on active duty in the Air Force, who told me that non-technical degree
candidates will not get pilot scholarships. Basically said, you can't do it.
One of the things that I wrote in the very first chapter in my book starts off with the phrase,
you can't do that. And I said, that phrase has been motivated me to do more in my life than
anything else. Well, I ended up with a three and a half year non-technical degree pilot
scholarship. I think it was just a handful in the country. But one of my lessons is to never
take no for an answer if you know better than that and to be motivated to go around people
that don't have value in life. So now ROTC has some good lessons, but it also gave me some lessons
on people and leadership. Well, a lot of dads out there would be saying, hey, don't get your degree
in political science. What are you going to use that for? And it was that degree that you got
through ROTC at East Carolina University and then went off to pilot training where I think you've
previously discussed the F4 as the love of your life in terms of flying. And you were able to go
to F4 basic training at Homestead Air Force Base. You spent eight years on active duty.
You've been at a lot of bases in a lot of states in Georgia, for example. Tell us about your
early career. Oh, I mean, there's so many things about the early career. I spent about seven and
a half years on active duty. But you know, I'm going to go back to what you were talking about
at Homestead. The unique experience is it's actually how I start off the whole book is
explaining about my first solo in the F4 Phantom. And we took off and had a handful of sorties,
missions, if you will, in the plane, very inexperienced, but they want you to build confidence.
They want you to go by yourself. It was me and another young lieutenant in the back seat.
And right on takeoff, we end up losing an engine. It's one of those eventualities that you prayer
prayer for your whole career might not ever see all by Dolly. We got to see it on our first solo.
Lucky, lucky you. Good thing we practiced them because now we got to do them. No, I had to do it.
But it was just one of those mini tales. And I said, you know, my experience wasn't necessarily
unique. And there were a lot of people in my generation that went through those similar
experiences or trained the same way. You know, it was a wonderful opportunity in my case,
which led to 35 years serving in uniform. Well, you did that in the National Guard,
you were part of the Arizona Air National Guard and ultimately found yourself as the commander
of the Selfridge Air National Guard base in Macomb County, Michigan. Tell us a little bit
about that as the, if you will, final assignment. Oh, it was, you couldn't ask for a greater
opportunity to end a career. My almost five years that I got to spend at Selfridge and the
wonderful men and women of Michigan's hometown air base. There are so many cool things that
happened. And a lot of that I write about, especially at the end of the book with what
we were able to do with the initial F 35 effort, the 100th anniversary. But really, when I showed
up, you know, Selfridge was pretty stressed. There was a lot of news about Selfridge shutting down.
And I was brought in to help kind of change the culture, change that engagement. And I had already
branded my leadership style by then as what I'd like to call it, the title of the book,
violent positivity. So within two years, we were able to turn things around by employing some of
these things I talked about. And next thing you know, this is the award winning best wing in the
Air National Guard, all sorts of acclimations for the people working there. It was absolutely
phenomenal. And then we were able to engage with the community and just some great things
ended up happening as a result. Well, I think it's one of those experiences. And I think younger
people maybe don't appreciate this. Life's not always a straight line. You get assignments,
you get duties, you get jobs, you get bosses, maybe you like them, maybe you don't. But but over the
course of three decades plus, you get to see it all and you do develop your own style, which is what
you're talking about in your book, violent positivity. Now, I often say now you're not a
Marine. So I would often say to a Marine author, what the hell gave you the thought that you could
write a book, but you actually had spent a lot of time in service writing training manuals and
safety academic lessons and textbooks. So you had a little more, maybe a little more readiness to
go ahead and write about your leadership style because of those experiences. And we're back to
maybe that political science degree really worked out pretty well because you wrote a lot more
than you would have in a technical field. Did you feel prepared to summarize your life leadership
styles because of those experiences? Well, I felt the need that I wanted to. I felt there's
really cool stories that we needed to talk about and need to be told. So as part of all that,
I struggled with writing it for a while until I took a little bit of a sabbatical,
was able to sit down with just me in a laptop and some time alone to get it started. And it got me
down the path of what ended up being a lot more of an autobiography type of a story of how I got
there than I ever intended it to be from the beginning. But we've been able to document some
great things and it's been a fantastic career. Well, one of those things that you do as you
increase in leadership and you talk about in the book is the thousands and thousands of airmen
and personnel really from all branches of the military and the homeland security and
our partners overseas. I know you worked with a number of countries that sent airmen pilots over.
So it's those experiences that really let you build your leadership style. Talk to us about that
a bit and what folks can find in violent positivity which is now out and available
for purchase from among other places, Amazon. But walk us through a few of your ideas.
Well, easily. That's great. In all those experiences, one of the things I got really astute
at doing is basically observing. And I was able to watch and I watched good leaders and figured
out some of those things in these good leaders. So I wanted to mimic the things that I wanted to
replicate. So I would seek out that. So I'm mimicking the good, but then at the same time I'd make
an opposing list of I wanted to make sure never to do and then making that long list from these
same observations. So my leadership style is certainly adapted over the years, but it's been
influenced by some amazing leaders, by some incredible experiences. And you talked about
traveling abroad is a perfect example. Working with our Allied Air Forces around the world
had been a lot of those experiences. And some of them worked in uniform either, whether it was
participating in a band for a long time in Arizona or a church that I was actually involved with
where I ended up going on a mission trip to Moscow a number of years after the wall had fallen and
everything there. So it all adds up over time to hone and shape everybody's individual approach.
And this ended up with my leadership style of violent positivity. Give us some maybe examples
of that general. I think people hear the word leadership and they go, I'm not a leader.
You know, I don't have 4500 men in my wing. But I think you're trying to pass along lessons
that have a much broader impact, aren't you? Oh, absolutely. I think some of the most effective
leaders I've ever met are people who don't have titles of leadership within an organization.
As I say, a leader is anybody at any given time, given the opportunity is able and available
to lead. And you never know when that opportunity is going to present itself. But, you know,
once again, from the middle of an organization, anybody can have influence. It takes one person
with this approach to positivity and you can be that agent of change within an organization,
impacting the culture. Just like if you hang around people who talk bad, you'd have a tendency to
talk negative and all also, well, the opposite's true. People love positivity. They're attracted
to people who have that positive outlook. And it is contagious. We can have a pandemic of positivity.
Describe your approach as people-centric. Can you tell us what that means?
Well, sure. A number of the projects I got to be involved with in safety was a large part of it,
was ensuring that every single person gets home safely every night, whether that was through
the Air Force's designated programs or the fact that I had some very cool bosses that let me
figure out what those goalposts were. I developed a program for aircraft maintenance that the
Air National Guard ended up adopting and then the whole Air Force and a number of Air Forces
around the world that talks about the principles of how people plan and prepare and how we
communicate with the concept of teamwork, how to make good decisions and these types of things.
And then we were able to move the needle on making the organization safer and more efficient.
And that's just one example. Another one of my favorite ones I got involved with, and I talk
about this and it's painful to talk about a little bit, are the people that I've known through my
life that have committed suicide. And I had the wonderful opportunity to inherit a project and
run with it called the Wingman Project, a national level suicide prevention program.
You want to talk about a program of passion because I think there's no higher calling
than making sure that people get home safely every night.
Well, I think in today's society where there is so much focus and concern on mental health,
rightfully so, and almost everybody in life goes through some struggle at one point or another,
having an awareness of, hey, is this person heading towards that darkest place where they
think their only option is suicide? It's kind of all of our jobs, isn't it, to prevent suicide?
Yeah, well, definitely. And the idea is to teach people to understand so they can see the warning
signs that they exist. In a lot of cases, they don't. But if we're able to see them, perceive them,
then give that real simple, what we call, in this case, the ACE, the Asca care escort model of what
to do once you recognize any of these signs. I even was talking to the younger folks across the
Air National Guard, and they gave me some great ideas. We were able to build an app that gave
resources, gave information, but my favorite feature of all was one step and one tap to be
able to get to the nearest mental health provider, part of that escort, ask care escort, get somebody
to professional help. Bam, we could do it on an app with just hit this here. They asked for it,
we made it happen. And what a great testament to what you're supposed to do as a leader is to
listen to people and make things like that that are useful that make an impact happen.
Yeah, I think at times we all think, well, I don't, I shouldn't interfere because I'm not an expert.
I don't have a degree in psychology or whatever it might take or counseling. But if you care about
people, it's more than that, isn't it? More than the PhD label on you.
Well, and whether it was the safety programs I was involved with or the Wingman project,
the whole idea is to empower people to speak up. We want to do that. As I say, sometimes it could
be the newest, youngest, least educated person involved in the situation. Maybe they're the
only ones that have that perception, the only ones that are able to see what's happening.
And we need them, we absolutely need them to speak up. And it's all about empowering people.
Man, you hit the nail on the head with that one.
Is your writing violent positivity? Were there things in going back in time and looking at
some of this that even surprised you? Geez, I didn't realize that principle or that idea was
planted back then and was working through my career. Oh, absolutely. When I was writing the book,
I actually had a revelation of an individual who set such a great example for me in pilot training.
And it was in retrospect when I was writing the book that there's this Lieutenant Richard Haynes
who changed my attitude about flying. I don't think I would have made it through pilot training
if it wasn't for him. As a result, I ended up contacting him and I tell a little of the story
of how he was able to flip that script from what was a terrible experience. And I realized it really
wasn't the experience. It was my instructor. And once I was able to fly with him, wow, it all changed.
So just like teachers can with our kids in school, I had a pilot training instructor who showed that
this really can be a fun and fantastic and rewarding career. And it set me on a different path.
Isn't it surprising how one person can, as you say, flip the script really make
you go in a much more positive direction than somebody who is weighing you down? And I think
that's sort of a theme through your book, isn't it? It is. And the whole idea is to empower people
to be that positive person that has that influence on people because there are so many great
opportunities out there. People seek out, they want good leadership, they crave positivity.
And the great thing now is it's so easy to contrast with the rest of society because we're so bombarded
with negativity, especially with social media and everything and the news. When you watch it,
if somebody's saying a good news story or somebody is approaching this from this idea of violent
positivity, it's just a wonderful, refreshing and effective way to lead. Well, and I think we all
have a responsibility because we're interacting with people daily to express that, to show that.
Give some examples of elsewhere in your career where somebody demonstrated that positivity that
just sort of helped move you forward and along. Okay, certainly one of the most effective leaders
I can remember is early in my career in Arizona, we had a Wayne Commander and you know, I was there
for a few months before I ever had an engagement with him at all. And it was, we were doing an
exercise. I can remember was in a tent sitting there eating and all of a sudden the Wayne Commander,
now I was, I think a captain at the time, and this Colonel walks up and sits down right across from
me. Well, it kind of about freaks me out that you know, the Wayne Commander sitting here and
figure I must be in trouble. Right, what did you do wrong? Yeah, exactly. But he looked, he smiled,
he knows my first name, that's an important thing. He called me by my name and he looked at me and
he basically said, Hey, so what's going on? And he truly wanted to hear my opinions and my thoughts
and he engaged with me. And I tell people it probably wasn't more than a few minutes, but to me,
it felt like an eternity. But this guy took the time to talk to me and genuinely connect.
And it was a couple years later, he ended up with stage four brain cancer and he continued
being such a great leader in showing how to pass with grace. So I hold up Colonel Ron
Kurt as a perfect example of being such a positive impact for me and thousands of others.
Now, what I want to know, does this Colonel know your real name, your call sign, and how did you
get the call sign? I was going to answer your question by saying I'm not sure I was being called
Odie at that time. Because Odie, you know, we watch top gun, you got Maverick and Goose and
Iceman and these types of call signs. Well, when I started in the Arizona Guard, they put me in
charge of the briefing rooms, which is about akin to being a janitor. Clean up after people,
posting publications, everything that nobody wants to do. And I did it for years. And it was a young
lady in the command post one day, she said, You're just like Garfield's little dog, Odie, you get
kicked around and you don't ever complain about it. And she said, Yes. And just like that, guess
what call sign you had a call sign. But really, there's a there's a lesson there because the
lesson is sometimes you have to do the unpleasant tasks on your way to the more interesting,
more challenging things. And while everybody knows you as Doug, Slocum or Odie, Slocum,
I just learned that you've that I think your first name, your given name is John D. Slocum.
Well, yeah, you can yell that down the hall and I won't turn around because nobody calls me that.
Yeah, exactly. So it, you know, that's part of what you get in the military is you tend to know
guys by a lot of slang names that maybe maybe isn't the one their mother gave them.
Oh, correct. We always knew each other by call signs. And I can remember being informal things
overseas and you're in this big meeting and you look and you say, And I'm with, and you can't
remember what their real name is. So you wanted to say, you know, like Cobra or something like that.
And you're like, um, um, yeah, I got a little bit tough. So who did you write violent positivity
of fighters pilot journey leadership lessons on caring for people in Ford? Who was the audience
you're trying to reach here? You know, it really is much broader than you would probably want to
guess by the title and the cover and all the books. Anybody who's interested in caring for people,
there are lessons in there. Yes, there are leadership lessons, but it really goes all the
way it can permeate from an individual to an entire organization. It outlines ways to get to
some wonderful outcomes, raising the bar of excellence and just changing the culture within
an organization. And once again, it goes all back to that power of one person there.
So, Odie, if folks want to know more about the book, how to get it or more about what you're up to,
what's a good way for them to connect with it? Well, the easiest way is just the title of the
book, which is violent positivity and ad dot com. We have a website up there that has more
information. There's a how you can click the order to book or whatever. We have book signings, events.
I've made a whole short series of video stories from the book. All those are going to be available
on violent positivity dot com. Well, we really appreciate just spending some more time with
Veterans Radio today to talk about leadership, to talk about your lessons in life and passing
those on to others. We really hope you have just tremendous success on this general. And as I say,
Veterans Radio is thankful for your time. Well, I thank you for your support. It's always great
to talk and our wonderful veterans out there for all of you. Thank you for your service,
what you do. This country owes you a debt. And we should be doing everything we can to take care
of our wonderful veterans. So, Jim, thank you for taking that cause on and being a champion.
Oh, we're glad to do it. We're glad to talk to military brats and guys go through ROTC and
has such wonderful careers. Great. It's great to share the lesson and it's always good to talk with you.
And I want to thank everybody for listening to Veterans Radio today. I am Jim Fausone. It's been a
pleasure to be your host. I'm a Veterans Disability Lawyer at Legal Help for Veterans and you can
reach us at 800-693-4800 or legalhelpforveterans.com on the web. You can follow Veterans Radio on
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