1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:12,000 All across America and around the world. This is Veterans Radio. This is Veterans Radio. 2 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:19,600 And now your host for today's program, Dale Throneberry. 3 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:28,160 And welcome to Veterans Radio. My name is Dale Throneberry, a CW-2 type helicopter pilot in 4 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:34,560 Vietnam in 1969. I know that's a couple of weeks ago. But I want to welcome you to our program. 5 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,720 We got a special group of people that I'm really anxious to introduce to our audience. 6 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:44,960 These are our board members. Remember when we talked about Veterans Radio, I think it was about 7 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:50,720 three years ago, we decided that we were going to become a non-profit, which we are, under the name 8 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:59,280 Veterans Radio America. And we are a 501C3 non-profit organization now. And so we are deciding we're 9 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,520 going to introduce all of our board members over the next couple of months so that you can see 10 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:10,560 who's actually running the show, not me anymore. It's all of them. So if you get mad, just send 11 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:16,880 emails to the board members and they can take care of them. So we are going to talk to three of our 12 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:24,640 women board members today because, no, it's International Women's Month. And I thought it'd 13 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:31,200 be really interesting to have you meet these women. We are just amazing backgrounds. We have Army, 14 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:37,760 we have Coast Guard, we have people that are teaching at Army War College now. We'll fill 15 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:43,200 all that in as we go along. So before we get into introducing them, I need to thank our sponsors 16 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:49,440 because without them we can't do this program ever. So first of all, is Legal Help for Veterans and 17 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:54,880 Legal Help for Veterans specializes in veteran disability claims. If you have a question, give 18 00:01:54,880 --> 00:02:02,240 them a call at 800-693-4800 or you can go to their website, legalhelpforveterans.com. 19 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:08,640 The National Veterans Business Development Council, better known as NVVDC, is the nation's leading 20 00:02:08,640 --> 00:02:13,280 third-party authority for certification of a veteran-owned business. For more information, 21 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:22,480 you can go to their website, that's NVVDC.org, or give them a call at 888-237-8433. These folks, 22 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:29,360 the NVVDC, it's really important. If you are a veteran-owned business and you want to do business 23 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:34,240 with the federal government or many corporations, you need to be certified as a real, live, 24 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:38,960 veteran-owned business. And so these are the folks that can get you certified and get you into that 25 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:45,920 marketplace. So NVVDC.org, check them out. The Charles S. Kettles VA Medical Center here in 26 00:02:45,920 --> 00:02:52,640 Ann Arbor, Michigan. For more information, go to va.gov. slash annarborhealthcare. We also want 27 00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:57,840 to make sure that we thank our local veterans organizations for their longtime support. That 28 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:03,040 would be the Erwin Prescott and America Legion Post-46 and the Charles S. Kettles Vietnam 29 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:08,800 Veterans of America Chapter 310, both of Ann Arbor, Michigan. And we also want to thank you for 30 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:15,440 helping us out with our fundraising attempts and activities. And if you'd like to support Veterans 31 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:20,800 Radio, you can just go to our website, that's veteransradio.org, and click on the donate button. 32 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:29,200 Since this is our 20th year, actually we're going into our 21st year, we're just asking for 20 bucks, 33 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:34,800 20 bucks for 20 years. So if you click on that button, we would greatly appreciate that. 34 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:41,920 All right, so here we go, the official part of the program. So joining me right now, 35 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:46,000 let's see, I don't know how to do that. I guess I better do it by rank. 36 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:51,520 Something like that. So I'm going to start out with our highest ranking board member, 37 00:03:51,520 --> 00:04:00,320 and that is Dr. Slash Kernel, Christine Cook. Christine was in the Army, she was in the 38 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:05,840 Reserves, she was in the National Guard, she deployed, so I'm going to introduce her. So 39 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:13,680 Christine, welcome back to Veterans Radio on the air. Good to be here. So fill in what else you've done. 40 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:22,560 What else have I done? Well, I basically was commissioned in 1986, and I served for 30 years, 41 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:28,800 so I retired in 2016. I was first in three different National Guards, New Jersey, 42 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:34,240 then Pennsylvania, and then finally in Michigan before coming over to what some people refer 43 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:40,240 to as the dark side in the US Army Reserve, where I was for eight years before I retired. 44 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:46,400 Then I went back for a, my PhD got that, and about a month later, a job opened up at the 45 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:51,920 War College again, and I'm there now. Okay, and you are originally from where? 46 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:59,520 I am originally an Army brat, so I am from nowhere and everywhere, but my father retired 47 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:05,040 to this area, which is near Carlisle, Pennsylvania, and I am from Ann Arbor, Michigan now. 48 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:10,720 Okay, thank you. Next on our list is Kate Meltzer. Kate was a captain in the Army. 49 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:17,760 I always like to brag that I know an amazing woman helicopter pilot. So Kate, tell me a 50 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:26,400 little bit about your background and how you got here. Thanks. I joined the Army after 9-11. 51 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:34,640 I was working in the US Senate at the time, and as one of my duties was drafting letters to Gold Star 52 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:39,760 Mothers, I thought that was not the way that I wanted to spend either the Iraq, Afghanistan, 53 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:49,760 war. So I enlisted in the military. I was selected for OCS and flight school, but was derailed a 54 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:54,320 little bit because of my previous civilian experience. So I actually spent the bulk of my 55 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:59,840 active duty time not just flying Apache helicopters, but actually as a legislative liaison officer 56 00:05:59,840 --> 00:06:05,520 back at the Pentagon, helping teach Congress what the military needs to do the mission that 57 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:11,680 they've asked us to do. So through that, I got to travel quite a bit domestically. I was stationed 58 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:17,280 at a number of different places throughout the US, but I am most proud of the wings that I earned, 59 00:06:17,280 --> 00:06:23,120 and I know you know that feeling. Getting those Army Aviator wings. I am most proud of that. 60 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:29,120 And of the work that the team did to get supplemental appropriations to up armor Humvees, 61 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,920 to make sure that more men and women actually came back from theater. 62 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:37,120 All right, we're going to go into more detail on some of these things in a little bit. So 63 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:44,000 last but not least, of course, is, oh, I got to get my paper out here. So we have Lydia Pinkham, 64 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:51,920 who's our Coast Guardi, Coastie, and Lydia was in the Coast Guard from 2011 to 2017. She was an 65 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:58,720 E5 Machinery Technician Second Class. So, Lydia, tell me, how did you get involved in joining the 66 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:07,280 Coast Guard? Initially, I met a recruiter who said, have you, I was a swimmer at the time, 67 00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:11,040 and he said, have you ever thought about joining the Coast Guard to be a swimmer? And I said, 68 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:16,800 what's the Coast Guard? And learned all about it over the course of about a year. I told him to 69 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:23,680 call me a year later, and he called me to the day a year later. And I signed, signed papers to leave 70 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:27,040 about six months later, but they were trying to get me to leave the following Tuesday because 71 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:36,000 they desperately needed women. And from there, I, I spent time in Seattle, Alaska, Virginia, and Florida. 72 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:42,160 The ship in the Pacific Ocean went up to the Bering Sea all the way down to 73 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:47,440 coasts of Panama and Columbia, everything from drug interdiction to fisheries enforcement. 74 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:52,880 And then I spent the last, the last four years doing a combination of search and rescue and 75 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:57,360 tactical response for the port of Tampa in Florida near McDill Air Force Base. 76 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:04,800 Okay. Well, see, we have a very, very talented board here at Veterans Radio. And, 77 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:11,840 okay, so let's, let's talk about some of the experiences that you had while you were in, 78 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:20,320 while you were in the military. So, Christine, you, you said that for 30 years you were in 79 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:29,040 and out, but you also deployed to Kuwait, right? I did. So, basically, as I said, I was in the 80 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:37,360 National Guard and then as a Lieutenant Colonel, that was 2004. After 9-11 happened, it was one 81 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,520 of those things where it wasn't a matter of if we were going to deploy, we knew that it was a 82 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:50,640 matter of when. So, for me, it was, I got my call up in the end of 2003. And I went forward in 2004. 83 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:59,440 While I personally was stationed in Kuwait, I was a battalion commander and my 250-some soldiers 84 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:08,000 were all over the place. So, I ended up in Talil, I ended up in Qatar because I had a group of people 85 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:15,920 who were there and then sprinkled all over Kuwait where my soldiers were at. So, that was 2004 into 86 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:26,000 2005. And what was your, again, the mission of your group while you were there? So, I was a 87 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:34,000 personnel services battalion commander. So, what we were really doing mostly was reception, staging, 88 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:41,440 and onward movement and integration, plus bringing people back out. So, we were in charge of making 89 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:48,800 sure that everybody who came into country, and that included not just Iraq, but also Afghanistan, 90 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:53,600 we had to make sure that all their records were right and that they were prepared to go forward. 91 00:09:54,320 --> 00:10:00,720 And then we also were the group of people who would be the last people to hand them off before 92 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:06,640 they got back on the plane to go back home again. Okay. So, basically everybody came into where you 93 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:12,880 were and then they deployed either to Iraq or Afghanistan. Okay, I didn't know that. See, 94 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:19,760 folks, you learn new things. Sort of like the 90th replacement company for those of you from that 95 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:27,200 era. Pretty much. Yeah. We reached out and touched about a third of a million soldiers 96 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:36,000 that during our time there. Wow. So, I know that you, I should point this out. I guess I can come 97 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:40,880 back to, I'll talk about it now. You also wrote a book about your experiences there. 98 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:46,800 Two, actually, but one that I published personally and one that was published through 99 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:53,680 the Strategic Studies Institute, which is outside of Carlisle here. So, the first one was called 100 00:10:53,680 --> 00:11:02,400 Living on Tatooine, aka Kuwait. And it was basically, I had gotten into country, I had a five-year-old 101 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:08,720 and a nine-year-old back home. My husband was having a conception. And so, in order to kind of calm 102 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:13,840 them and my Girl Scout troop and my church and all of those, you know, everybody else, I wrote home 103 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:22,880 an email every week that was mostly funny, you know, trying to say, well, I'm going to laugh 104 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:28,080 at this in 10 years. So, I may as well laugh at it now. And it was also mostly to say, hey, 105 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:34,560 I'm still alive. Don't worry about me. I'm okay, right? So, when I came back, because of the fact 106 00:11:34,560 --> 00:11:40,080 that I had had to kind of, you know, dress up things to not give away state secrets and stuff 107 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:44,480 like that, I was able to go back and say, well, this was actually what was happening. Or this, 108 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:49,680 this kind of explained some of the stuff that I was not able to say when I was in country. And 109 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:56,640 so, I did that, dressed it up a little bit, had some pictures added and then, and then published it. 110 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:05,440 I know it's over there. I'm pointing toward my bookcase. It's back there. Actually, if you want 111 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:09,600 to find out more about Christine's book, you can listen, go back into the archives of Veterans 112 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:15,520 Radio, just type in her name, Christine Cook, and the program that she was on should come up. 113 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:22,640 We talked with her about her book, and we also talked with her and her husband about the deployment 114 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:31,920 and the fun that he had while he was at the scene. So, we want you to do that. I felt so bad for Ken. 115 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:38,000 The other book was about post-reintegration, you know, post-deployment integration, 116 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:43,520 reintegration, because even if you don't have PTSD, sometimes you have like, 117 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:49,360 what was this all for kind of moments and trying to get myself back into the family and, 118 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:54,320 you know, part of the family again. So, I wrote a book that was the same basic way, 119 00:12:55,360 --> 00:13:01,200 where I did a year, a week, a year for the second year when I was back home, trying to 120 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:09,680 figure out how to navigate the United States again. And that one's available. You can Google it. 121 00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:20,400 So, all right. So, Linnea, you mentioned that you were all over the place, it sounds like. 122 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:26,640 Tell me a little bit about your experiences in the Coast Guard. How much, you know, what did you 123 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:32,960 find to be the most valuable lesson that you took away from that? I don't think that I could really 124 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:41,920 narrow it down to one most valuable lesson. The locations-wise, I started right after boot camp 125 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:47,360 on a big ship that was based out of Seattle, but would spend half the year up circling in the Bering 126 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:53,520 Sea. And up there, we were doing search and rescue and fisheries enforcement in partnership with NOAA. 127 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:58,960 So, quite literally measuring fish with tape measures to make sure that nobody was catching 128 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:05,440 anything illegal. And then the rest of the year, we were down in the winter months. We 129 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:12,400 snowboard boat went down to Columbia and Panama, Central America areas. And that was 130 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:18,400 following intel for drug interdiction, trying to catch the little boats full of drugs. 131 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:25,760 And then, so we would circle around the Bering, stop in port for repairs, go down south, and then 132 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:31,680 come back to report for pairs. And it was that cycle for a couple years. And then from there, 133 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:38,720 I went to a machinery and engineering school in Virginia and then got orders down to, they call 134 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:45,440 it station vacation in Florida. It was basically a beachside search station. It was pretty wonderful. 135 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:51,680 And when I was at that station, they were in desperate need of female law enforcement officers. 136 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:58,320 So, I kind of got pushed into the law enforcement world, which wasn't exactly what I wanted, but 137 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:05,360 I could shoot. And it was a fun adrenaline rush. So, I ended up doing a lot of law enforcement and 138 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:13,200 tactical response in Tampa Bay for my last couple of years. But lessons wise, I think 139 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:20,160 a lot of my life since then has been a lot of logistics and organization. And I'm in the 140 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:28,080 geoscience world now, but managing, coordinating research projects, helping to manage people and 141 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:35,120 seeing all of the moving parts of a problem at once instead of just a tiny little detail. 142 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:40,000 I think that the logistics and organization part of my brain that learned a lot of that in the 143 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:45,040 military is probably the best lesson, the best thing that I've taken away from that because 144 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:51,040 it helps me so much in my job today. Okay. So, Dale, I know you are doing this interview, 145 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:56,480 but you can't let Lydia off your program without saying a couple of things because clearly 146 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:02,960 humility is something else that she learned in the Coast Guard because you are actually talking to 147 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:10,080 the enlisted person of the year. Oh my. Lydia Pinkham. And you're also talking to somebody who had to 148 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:14,800 do PT tests in the icy waters of the Bering Sea and you should definitely ask her about that. 149 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:21,440 PT tests in the Bering Sea, that sounds like just wonderful. 150 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:28,240 It sounds really cold and I know my parents are listening right now, so I will apologize publicly 151 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:34,240 for not telling them about the time that I got hypothermia. They found out a few months later 152 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:41,360 and I took a verbal beating for that. No, we had to test all of our dry suits in the water and 153 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:49,440 we had to know what it felt like if we were going to fall overboard. Those are the adrenaline rushes 154 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:58,960 that I miss sometimes, but it was, yeah, the Bering Sea was a, it's kind of a power you don't 155 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:04,960 really understand until you're there. It's really glassy, calm and gray and then all of a sudden you 156 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:11,200 have wicked high seas and winds and your boat is taking a 35 degree lean and machinery is falling 157 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:20,720 all over the place and it's, it's an adventure. So thank you, Kate, for putting me on the spot. 158 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:27,040 I have to let our audience know that Kate and Lydia have known each other a little while 159 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:34,720 and I think they know I should just sit back and let them talk. But so and Lydia can probably 160 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:44,400 fill me in on some stuff. Kate's not going to volunteer either. So you, Kate, you, we had 161 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:48,480 had Kate Meltzer on a program. Again, if you wanted to listen to her interview, you can go to 162 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:56,000 our archivesveteranradio.org and type in her name, Kate Meltzer, M-E-L-C-H-E-R. And she'll talk about 163 00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:03,280 her training to become an Army pilot, which was a lot more complicated than mine was, that was 164 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:11,360 for sure. So just as a review, you know, everything, I can't remember the new name of Fort Rucker. 165 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:20,160 No, the cell. There we go. So tell me just briefly for our audience, if you could talk about 166 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,960 how you got into flight school, why you got into flight school, and then 167 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:29,520 just a little bit about your training, how the length of it and what you learned to do. 168 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:36,560 Sure. I chose aviation because it was the closest thing to combat that women were allowed to do at 169 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:43,520 the time. I was in the training pipeline, you know, when the prohibition against women in combat 170 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:50,000 still existed. Women were not allowed in combat arms, MOSs. But interestingly enough, attack 171 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:57,600 aviation in the Army is not combat arms. It's actually combat support. So women were allowed to do that. 172 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:07,360 After having the experience of seeing all of these letters to Gold Star mothers going out from 173 00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:12,560 from the Senate office, I just, I wanted to be in a position to effect greater change. I wanted to 174 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:21,440 be in a position to maybe make so that so many letters didn't have to be sent. And I knew that 175 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,520 as a lieutenant in the Army or in the Marine Corps, where you have leadership opportunities 176 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:30,880 immediately upon commissioning, that was an opportunity for me to do that. And I also knew 177 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:35,920 that in a two theater war, the chances of me deploying overseas were really high. And if I 178 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:42,240 was going to deploy overseas, I wanted guns and lots of them because people were going to be shooting 179 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:48,320 at us and I wanted to be able to return the favor. So close air support was that mission. That's, 180 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:55,760 that is what I wanted. So I did well enough in OCS and found a unit that took me seriously when I 181 00:19:55,760 --> 00:20:00,800 said I wanted to fly and, and they sponsored my packet to actually go to flight school. And I just 182 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:05,040 remained laser focused on not only meeting but exceeding the standard, because I wanted my 183 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:09,520 choice of aircraft, I wanted my choice of mission. There's so much that you're not in control of in 184 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:17,440 the Army, but your merit and your performance does get a vote. So I went through primary school, 185 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:23,600 which everybody goes through. It's, it's where you learn to fly a helicopter and everybody kind 186 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:27,920 of feels like they're wrestling a squirrel for about a week. And then all of a sudden you find 187 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:34,400 your hover button and you just know how to hover. And you can't explain how that happened. It's just 188 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:43,120 magically it just happened and, and you can hold a low hover. But they, they basically, you know, 189 00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:46,720 you learn all of the ways you can die and then you spend flight school figuring out all the ways 190 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:53,520 to not do that. So you go through primary, you go through some basic warfighter skills, and then 191 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,280 the selection process happens and I ended up in the 64 course for Apaches. 192 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:05,280 Okay, lots of guns, lots of bullets. Yes, lots of noise. And lots of fun. 193 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:14,320 I know we can't really say how much a fighter was to do that kind of stuff. At least while I 194 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:19,200 wasn't in the Bering Sea, so I can't talk about that. I did have a friend that was stationed 195 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:29,440 up in Alaska. He said it wasn't fun. I can kind of relate to that, that whole thing. 196 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:34,880 You mentioned earlier on, and I thought this was kind of an interesting question. Before we went 197 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:42,400 on the air, she said to ask about uniforms. And from the standpoint of male and female uniforms, 198 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:50,880 I had always assumed that they were different and evidently they weren't. 199 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,000 So I will say this. As a female in a very technical field, 200 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:02,480 the mission and your proficiency in the aircraft was the most important thing. 201 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:09,520 Your gender barely mattered at all because the idea was show up, can you do the job or not. 202 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:15,280 But because there's sort of inequality in the genders in a technical field like aviation, 203 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:23,680 some of the small things I think kind of go unnoticed. Like physically, I'm a taller woman, 204 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:31,680 but I have slight shoulders and I have fuller hips and rear end. And when I went to get a 205 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:36,080 pickle suit, which is the green flight suit, you guys all saw them in Top Gun, those kinds of things, 206 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:42,640 those are all cut for men. And if I was going to get a flight suit that could 207 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:53,120 comfortably support my lower assets, usually was way too big on the top half of my body. 208 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:59,760 And this is not vanity. This is not fashion. When you have all of that excess material, 209 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:04,720 it can get caught on things. When you're climbing up on top and you're doing pre-flight 210 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:10,880 on a helicopter, it can get caught. It didn't change a whole lot when we went to two-piece 211 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:15,760 flight suits. It was the same kind of issue. And we sort of overcame, you get things altered. 212 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:22,720 There's other less savory topics like women use the restroom differently than men do, 213 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:29,040 and that's also a challenge with uniforms. So while there were different uniforms for 214 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:35,840 your dress uniforms, your class A's, your blues, all that, your field kit was a one-size-fits-all 215 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:43,040 issue. One-size-fits-all and unisex and what they really meant was it was male work with it. 216 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:49,680 Correct. Correct. I mentioned that some of that is sort of a safety issue. The larger safety issue 217 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:57,360 actually came with my I-Heads helmet. So for those of you that are not familiar with the Apache, 218 00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:01,360 we actually wear a helmet and there's a system called I-Heads, which is a teeny tiny little 219 00:24:01,360 --> 00:24:07,200 TV screen that shows up in front of your right eye. And your flight symbology and mission 220 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:14,160 essential information comes through that little TV screen. Well, the way your helmet fits dictates 221 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:19,680 how that screen lands in front of your eye. And it's very important for it to be in the same 222 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:25,520 spot every time. Things look differently from different vantage points, and a few millimeters 223 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:32,400 can make a difference. So as a female with a smaller head and smaller features, finding a helmet 224 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,720 that fit me appropriately so that that I-Heads assembly didn't slide down my cheek and end 225 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:42,960 up under my nose in flight, that was really important too. So I visited the Yalsey shop a lot 226 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:48,400 to try and make it work. And I ended up with a little sack of lead ball bearings on the back 227 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:55,120 of my helmet and all kinds of crazy sort of gerry-rigged solutions. But these are the kinds 228 00:24:55,120 --> 00:25:00,400 of things that because there was such equity and equality between men and women in the mission 229 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:05,760 of aviation, those little things like, oh, she is different. Her body is smaller. Her body is 230 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,600 shaped differently, and it's going to make a difference for her uniform and her equipment. 231 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:15,120 We all figured it out, but definitely not something that folks thought about when I 232 00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:20,160 showed up in the unit for the first time. The other thing that was fun was the Kevlar vest. 233 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:27,520 Oh, yes. When it has all of the Kevlar plates in it, it weighs 80 pounds. It weighs 40 pounds 234 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:34,080 without the plates, but it's 80 pounds with the plates, which when you're in combat, 235 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:38,800 that could be more than half of your weight that you're trying to figure out how to get on. And I 236 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:44,000 actually got to the point where I would do this fancy little whoop like this, where I would circle 237 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:49,840 it around me to set it up onto my shoulders, and then I would be able to get it on from there. 238 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:58,800 But it was tough to get in and out of. I actually got to reap the benefits of a unit starting to 239 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:05,360 integrate women into a crew. My Kevlar was custom fit so that I could swim in it during surface 240 00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:11,920 swimming operations. Well, what did you swim with Kevlar? That was the first time that I ever had 241 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:18,000 something that was custom fit or very intentional for a woman on a crew, and I had to be able to 242 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:25,680 swim with a full gun belt and signal vest everything with the bulletproof vest on underneath it. I had 243 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:31,200 to have full range of motion to be able to swim. And when I got to my unit, the guys weren't too 244 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:37,040 happy that I got custom fit for a brand new Kevlar, and they were using hand-me-downs, but 245 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:44,720 that was pretty nice. But up in the Bering Sea, we had the wetsuits that would keep us, 246 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:49,200 they were dry, basically a wetsuit with gaskets around all of the holes that would keep us perfectly 247 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:58,400 dry in the water. And for sake of bathroom purposes, they had finally purchased women's suits that, 248 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:05,120 instead of unzipping in the front for men, they had a half zipper in the back for women. And the 249 00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:12,720 unit invested in the women's cut suits. However, the thermal bunny suits that we had to wear 250 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:21,520 underneath them were unisex. And even if you were able to unzip the whole dry suit, you still had 251 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:28,800 to just take it off anyways to use the thermal suit underneath it. So while I perfectly understand 252 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:33,520 that budgets are a thing and that units have to order what they can get their hands on, 253 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:41,760 just a perfect example of how the gear does not always fit the mission for everybody. It was 254 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,800 frustrating, but we made it work because you always make it work. 255 00:27:45,360 --> 00:27:51,120 So. And going back to that Kevlar vest, as you can tell, I really loved it. The other thing is if 256 00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:59,520 you happen to have a full bust, it's basically a binding mechanism. So it would smush down 257 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:06,320 all of your chest in order to fit under these steel plates. Very comfortable. 258 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:14,720 I'm sorry. I don't mean to laugh at this at all. I wish that we were on on television right now. 259 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:19,600 You could see the reaction of all our guests as they're talking about this equipment that 260 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:30,080 has to be adapted to. I was thinking of, obviously, as the guy in the room, our helmets, 261 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:36,160 flight helmets were much simpler. They were small, medium, large. That was it. My head is fairly 262 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:44,640 big and even a large sometime would cut off the circulation in my head. And it didn't have any extra 263 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:49,840 any weights there. The chicken plate or the armor plate, I guess, pre Kevlar, 264 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:56,320 we would only wear the front part of it because theoretically the backs of the seats were 265 00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:06,320 armor plated and the seat itself was armor plated. They wanted us to wear Kevlar leg guards, 266 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:14,400 sort of like a robot. And it was going to cover the legs. Because that's where many, 267 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:18,880 many pilots, when they got shot, they got shot in the legs. And you couldn't move your legs. 268 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:26,080 It was like you had forest gump leg braces on. And so they, I'm guessing that they did away with 269 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:31,840 those. I'm assuming that they did. We are going to take a real quick break here for our Medal of 270 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:39,040 Honor segment. When we come back with our guests are Christine Cook, Kate Meltzer, and Lydia Pinkham, 271 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:44,000 and they are board members for Veterans Radio America and Veterans, as you can see, everything on 272 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:50,240 Veterans Radio America is veteran oriented and run by veterans. And so we're asking for your support. 273 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:55,440 If you'd like to hear the stories like we're talking about today, or any of the other ones that 274 00:29:55,440 --> 00:30:00,000 we've covered over the last 20 years, please just go to our website, click on that donate button. 275 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:05,440 It's really helpful. We have a lot of plans of things that we want to do in the future to expand 276 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:12,400 not only our listening audience, but to expand the mission that we are on to help other veterans. 277 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:16,640 So you're listening to Veterans Radio. We'll be back in about two minutes. 278 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,160 The Medal of Honor is the highest award for valor in combat given a member of the Armed Forces of 279 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:29,040 the United States. There have been over 3,400 recipients of the nation's highest award. This is one of them. 280 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:35,520 Navy Captain James Stockdale inflicted a near fatal wound to himself to show his willingness to die 281 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:43,440 rather than divulge information. Details after this. If you have a VA claim denied by the Board of 282 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:50,880 Veterans Appeals, contact Legal Help for Veterans at 1-800-693-4800. They're experts in handling cases 283 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:56,960 before the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims. Their number again, 1-800-693-4800. 284 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:02,560 Stockdale was recognized by the North Vietnamese as the leader in the prisoners of war resistance 285 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:08,240 to interrogation and in their refusal to participate in propaganda exploitation. Sensing the start of 286 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:13,440 another purge and aware that his earlier efforts itself disfiguration to dissuade his captors 287 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:19,200 from exploiting him for propaganda purposes had resulted in cruel and agonizing punishment, 288 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:24,240 Stockdale resolved to make himself a symbol of resistance regardless of personal sacrifice. 289 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:30,000 He deliberately inflicted a near mortal wound to his person in order to convince his captors of 290 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:36,080 his willingness to give up his life rather than capitulate. He was subsequently discovered and 291 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:42,000 revived by the North Vietnamese who, convinced of his indomitable spirit, abated in their employment 292 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:47,200 of excessive harassment and torture toward all of the prisoners of war. Upon release from the 293 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:52,640 captivity, he was promoted to rear admiral. The Medal of Honor series is a production of Veterans 294 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:58,960 Radio. You know you don't have to wear your PT gear anymore, right? It's comfortable. It's a 295 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:05,040 nocivilian life treating you. It's fine. When I got out, I didn't want to admit that there was 296 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:10,320 anything wrong because I felt like a failure. And then I realized like there's nothing to be ashamed 297 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:17,440 of. So I started talking to someone. Maybe you are fine. But if you're not, it's okay. Thank you. 298 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:31,120 If you or a veteran you know needs support, don't wait. Reach out. Find resources at va.gov.search. 299 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:35,360 We're back here on Veterans Radio and we are talking with the board members of Veterans Radio 300 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:41,040 and Veterans Radio America. We've got Christine Cook, Kate Meltzer, and Lydia Pinkham. So we've 301 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:47,840 got two Army and a Coast Guard. What I'd like to go into now is a little bit about your transitioning 302 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:55,120 from the military back into some semblance of civilian life. You know once you retire, 303 00:32:55,120 --> 00:33:01,360 let's put it that way. And so Lydia, I'm going to start with you. What did you do when you got 304 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:07,600 out or did you have a plan already in place? I definitely had a plan because that's my personality. 305 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:14,720 I started school about three weeks after my last day of active duty. So I jumped right into it and 306 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:22,000 I used my GI bill for a bachelor's in geology and then went on to graduate school in geochemistry. 307 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:31,040 And now I'm advising PhD students in an aerospace engineering department. So it's a lot of the 308 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:35,680 coordination and personnel management that I was talking about earlier, just helping to solve problems 309 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:43,600 and helping them see the big picture. So I went from being on a boat every day, standing on the bow, 310 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:51,520 doing a hands-on job with direct rewards every day to sitting in a lecture hall full of 311 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:57,120 a couple hundred people taking classes at U of M. And I think the hardest part about those first 312 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:05,440 couple months was the feeling that I wasn't doing anything directly contributing to society every day, 313 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:15,440 not seeing that direct reward of feeling really useful and I kind of hated doing homework, 314 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:23,200 so it didn't help. But I think that was the hardest part for me. I also, when I went to the VA to sign 315 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:28,560 up for health care benefits, the person at the desk wasn't aware that the Coast Guard was eligible 316 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:34,240 for the same benefits as the other branches. So that was my first hurdle straight out of out the 317 00:34:34,240 --> 00:34:44,240 gate. But since then, I had wonderful access to the Ann Arbor health care system that honestly 318 00:34:44,240 --> 00:34:50,160 made most of the transition out easy. Having just, I mean, the Ann Arbor system right there is pretty 319 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:59,440 great. And I've kind of filled in the military helping people gap by getting involved with 320 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:06,400 Veterans Radio here and also getting involved at Fisher House with Kate. And it's, I think that's 321 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:13,120 been the easiest way for me to keep that helping people aspect, but also moving forward in a 322 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:21,680 different path. But since then, it's been pretty good. I think the communities of student Veterans 323 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:27,360 and the vets out here, the friends that we have out here, I live in Colorado now, we left that 324 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:35,360 out at the beginning. The communities are really what's helped with the transition out of military 325 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:40,720 life. I think if I didn't have the student veteran population and some of the friends that I've made 326 00:35:40,720 --> 00:35:46,960 since getting out, it would have been a lot harder. I know you were active in a University of Michigan 327 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:52,800 Student Veterans Association. Did you start that or was it already there when you got there? 328 00:35:54,400 --> 00:36:00,320 The student veteran group, the SVA, that was formed, I believe in 2008. So it's, it's been around for 329 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:07,040 a while, but it's, it's a mixture of professional development and social and supporting each other 330 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:14,160 through classes. So I also, there's a, an office at the University of Michigan dedicated to student 331 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:20,240 veteran affairs. And there's a peer advising position that I worked in for a couple of years, 332 00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:25,760 serving as an advisor for incoming veteran or military affiliated students. And that was 333 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:31,680 that feeling of giving back to students that had been in the same position that I was was 334 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,600 pretty fulfilling. But that helped me get in touch with a lot of other vets on campus 335 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:44,640 to relate to and commiserate. No, I think that's, that's terrific. I mean, the idea of being able to, 336 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:54,000 of, you know, the educational institution that you went to, when I got out and was transferring 337 00:36:54,000 --> 00:37:02,480 into U of M, first of all, they wanted to charge me out of state tuition, because I was in Alabama, 338 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:09,200 they thought. And I said, no, I'm here permanently. And it took me a while. I finally was a congressman 339 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:15,600 that, that, that return, I got a Huey call, but evidently they did give me the in-state 340 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:20,720 tuition, which was very helpful, because my GI bill was, I think, 400 a month at the time, 341 00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:27,920 but it covered it all, which is saying something in relationship to today. But I do like the idea of 342 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:35,120 all these, all the colleges, at least I know in this local area that have these veteran transition 343 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:40,400 departments, offices, they kind of, you know, they're all reaching out to help their veteran 344 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:48,000 community and help that transition back. So, Kate, when you transitioned out, how long were you in 345 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:56,160 the service? Totally. Total amount of time. I enlisted in 2005, and I was done with my reserve 346 00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:05,040 component obligation in 2020. How long were you on active duty? Eight years. Okay. All right. So, 347 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:14,640 in that regard, I, the sort of slow motion nature of my transition was helpful in a lot of ways, 348 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:19,680 and not in others. So, I really am of two minds about this question. First of all, when I came off 349 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:26,000 active duty and started working in a guard unit, I went to work for L3, which was an aerospace 350 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:34,240 company, and I got to be a part of building aircraft that were going to the military, commercial as well. 351 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:41,520 But I was surrounded by a bunch of really talented, technically proficient people. So, that was a 352 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:46,000 really pretty smooth transition, not just because some of the guys that worked there were veterans, 353 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:55,440 but as a whole, I went from a technically proficient, really competent unit to a similar thing on the 354 00:38:55,440 --> 00:39:03,280 civilian side at L3. So, I made friends and learned a lot from the people there, and so that part of 355 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:10,240 the transition was easy. The part that wasn't was, while I was working there and still serving in 356 00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:17,920 the guard at the time, the unit that I transferred out of was sourced and they deployed to Afghanistan. 357 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:26,880 And two of the guys in that unit, their aircraft never returned to base. So, while I was sitting 358 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:34,720 at a cushy little civilian job at a desk in Cresview, Florida, you know, there were two families 359 00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:45,840 that were grieving CW3 Matt Ruffner and CW2 Jared Yoder. And the survivor guilt that came with that 360 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:55,360 incident sticks with me today. I left L3 and ended up coming back to Michigan and working for Fisher 361 00:39:55,360 --> 00:40:01,840 House. And when people ask me why I work for Fisher House and why I do what I do, it is 100% 362 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:07,440 to earn the right to still be here, because I should have been on that deployment and wasn't. 363 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:14,720 So, I continued to serve my military brothers and sisters and their family members and their 364 00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:21,280 caregivers and the greater community outside of just the veteran space, because Matt and Jared can't be. 365 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:28,400 And so, right now, what is your role with Fisher House? I know our audience refresh them. 366 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:34,080 We all know what it is, but just kind of refresh their memories. Sure. The easiest thing, and I 367 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:38,160 love when people use the analogy that a Fisher House is kind of like a Ronald McDonald House. 368 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:43,920 Fisher Houses are comfort homes built near military and VA hospitals, so that when a service 369 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:48,880 member or veteran is hospitalized, we get to take care of their families. They come and stay at 370 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:55,440 Fisher House so long as it's medically necessary for their loved one. And so, currently, I'm the 371 00:40:55,440 --> 00:41:00,800 executive director of Fisher House here in Michigan. We have an active Fisher House in Ann Arbor, 372 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,440 and the Detroit Fisher House is currently under construction. 373 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:10,000 Very cool. I know you've been very busy, and this is how I met Kate, was through the Fisher House 374 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:18,320 connection, and that you are working on another one up north, right? Well, Fisher House, Michigan, 375 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:23,440 we've decided that we will support any Fisher House that the VA says that we need. And there are five 376 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:29,280 VA medical centers, hospital centers here in Michigan. One is up an Iron Mountain in the 377 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:35,760 UP on the Wisconsin border, and they are anxious to apply for a Fisher House. Even when they apply 378 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:42,320 and the VA secretary approves their application, we will also support their effort to build up there 379 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:46,320 and to support the veteran families that need to be there for their loved ones. 380 00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,480 I heard a rumor about expansion of the Ann Arbor House. 381 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:56,880 I wouldn't be at all surprised. You know, that house opened during the pandemic in June of 2020, 382 00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:02,560 and even though it had limited capacity during the pandemic, that house has still served about 383 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:08,480 9,000 individuals, making it one of the busier Fisher Houses in the entire network of 96 houses 384 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:14,080 worldwide. So if that Ann Arbor House has to run at 90% capacity for more than a year, 385 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:19,440 they can apply for a second Fisher House, and we will happily raise funds and awareness to make 386 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:26,960 sure that that happens. Cool. Stick around, listen to veteran radio, see what goes on with Fisher 387 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:32,480 House. Ann Arbor is putting additions on every single building, I think, around the whole area, so 388 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:40,880 you never know what will happen. Thanks. So Christine is our colonel slash doctor slash professor, 389 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:47,680 and right now she's sitting in Carlisle, Pennsylvania at the Army War College. So tell me 390 00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:55,120 about how did you end up there? Well, as I kind of intimated with the second book that I wrote 391 00:42:55,120 --> 00:43:03,680 about reintegration, my reintegration was kind of tough. And part of that was, I think, because of the 392 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:10,080 part time, you know, I had been full time for a year and a half, and then suddenly had to come back 393 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:18,080 and trying to figure out how to rebuild a trust issue that was significant with my guard unit at 394 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:27,200 that point. And I was at 22 years, I was ready to hang up my spurs, but at that moment, I happened 395 00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:34,960 to be taking the US Army War College distance version myself. And so I met a couple of people 396 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:41,200 who found out that I was a writer, and they were basically, we've got a position for you here if 397 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:46,720 you are ever interested, but it's not a National Guard position, it's a reserve position. So I 398 00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:52,960 figured, well, it's either retirement or let's try this for a bit, and found a vein of gold that I 399 00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:59,600 absolutely adored. And I ended up becoming what was a professor, but a practitioner professor 400 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:07,360 in the distance version of the War College, where I was teaching the operational and strategic 401 00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:15,120 aspects of being a military person. So I did that for the balance of my last eight years. And 402 00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:19,680 basically when I did retire, I retired kicking and screaming, because I really didn't want to 403 00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:27,920 leave at that point, which was a big turnaround from my 22 year point. But two years before that, 404 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:34,720 I realized, gee, I would really like to be able to continue to teach if I could. And so I knew if I 405 00:44:34,720 --> 00:44:41,040 wanted to do that, and not be a practitioner, a colonel at the War College, I would have to get a 406 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:51,040 PhD. So I was getting a master's degree at Eastern Michigan in gender and gender and women studies. 407 00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:57,600 And I wrote a historiography on women in the military thinking, okay, this will be easy. I can, 408 00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:02,880 this is something I know, and found out that there is virtually nothing written on the history of 409 00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:09,680 women in the military. And what they do have is basically World War II. That's pretty much it, 410 00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:14,240 right? So I was talking to somebody there, and they said, well, you know, you have a gap 411 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:22,160 that you can fill, because you have some experiential knowledge here. So Wayne State had a PhD program 412 00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:28,320 that they can kind of call a boutique program in that you can kind of write your own adventure. 413 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:33,200 So I went in there basically saying I want to do the Women's Army Corps, even though they don't 414 00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:40,160 really have a military history department there. They welcomed me in, and I was able to finish 415 00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:50,080 a PhD in history with a focus on my dissertation being on the history of the Cold War Women's 416 00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:58,160 Army Corps from 1948 to 1978. So I am now a subject matter expert in that particular field of history. 417 00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:06,880 And a month after I got my sheepskin, the position that I am now in opened up. It is a DA civilian 418 00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:16,640 Title X position, which is basically professorial for a variety of their colleges. And I am able 419 00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:22,720 to do it teleworking, which is one of the reasons why I spend most of my time in Ann Arbor, but 420 00:46:22,720 --> 00:46:28,960 I have to do this little foray to Carlisle on a monthly basis. 421 00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:38,720 Okay. So my question is we are coming up about 10, 12 minutes to go. What would you say to women 422 00:46:38,720 --> 00:46:44,080 today that are thinking about joining the military? Anybody want to jump in on that? 423 00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:46,880 I am kind of curious about that. 424 00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:53,600 I will say, first of all, Dale, up to this point, I really appreciate you asking us specific and 425 00:46:53,600 --> 00:47:00,640 individual questions, because often as a female who served in uniform, I get the, what's it like 426 00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:08,960 to be a woman in uniform? And my experience was so unique that I don't like talking in a way that 427 00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:15,280 is representative of all women in uniform. So I would say to any young girls that are interested 428 00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:25,840 in serving that no two experiences are alike, that it can be one of the most difficult jobs 429 00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:33,200 in the world that is incredibly rewarding, that the technical fields are a wonderful place where 430 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:39,680 it doesn't matter if you're a woman or not. You actually just get to show up and show your medal. 431 00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:47,280 You can either do the job or you can't. I think the military in many ways is better at that 432 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:53,840 than the civilian world. So I, you know, I sort of joke that I'm a Nike feminist, 433 00:47:53,840 --> 00:48:00,320 that we no longer have any laws that prohibit us from doing anything. So just do it. Either you 434 00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:06,320 have the aptitude for it or you don't. But just do it. There are no laws tying your hands to any 435 00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:12,960 job in the military at this point, any job anywhere, frankly. So I would absolutely encourage 436 00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:19,120 young women if they want a job that is competitive and interesting and purposeful. 437 00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:27,040 But, you know, ultimately it's not about being a girl. It's about executing the mission. 438 00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:38,560 I agree with Kate wholeheartedly that the opportunities are there and if you want them, 439 00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:44,800 you have to go for them. Nobody's going to just wait for something to fall in your lap. You have 440 00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:53,840 to shoot for it. And whenever people ask about my experience, I know that I had, 441 00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:59,600 just like Kate, I had a unique experience. I got along with most everybody that I was stationed with. 442 00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,160 Things were a bit lonely when I was the only girl on the crew, but 443 00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:09,360 I eventually met some of the spouses and girlfriends that became really good friends. 444 00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:16,480 And I had this like massive group of brothers that were very protective and I loved it. I loved 445 00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:24,240 hanging out with the guys. And so I had a very unique experience, but one of my closest mentors, 446 00:49:24,240 --> 00:49:31,680 another pilot, Kate, her best advice to me when I got to my first unit was don't be lazy. 447 00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:36,960 Don't ask people to do things for you. You can carry that five-gallon bucket of oil by yourself. 448 00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:46,080 And if you're smart, hang on to that and use it. And don't try to get out of things. Do your job. 449 00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:51,520 Do it well and people will recognize you for the job that you're doing. And we used to give that 450 00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:56,480 advice for all of the girls that came to the unit and it's advice that really works for everybody. 451 00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:02,240 The men should do that too. But it was to this day was the best decision I've made, 452 00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:11,440 second to getting out was a really good decision for me. But yeah, my advice is just like Kate's, 453 00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:17,600 it would be to do it and have the confidence to go after what you want to do if there's a particular 454 00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:21,680 job you want, if there's a qualification that you want. There's nothing that says you can't do it 455 00:50:22,720 --> 00:50:30,240 if you're qualified and if you meet the requirements. So don't hold back. But it's 456 00:50:30,240 --> 00:50:37,040 a fun experience and it personally helped with my probably discipline and confidence and public 457 00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:42,160 speaking and all of those kind of secondary qualities that you bring out of the military. 458 00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:44,560 It helped me with all of those things. It was a great decision. 459 00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:53,600 Christine, you came right out of, Christine went to school in New Jersey at one of the 460 00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:59,760 better known schools there. But I won't mention its name. I was a mercenary soldier. I joined the 461 00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:08,000 military because I couldn't afford my other school otherwise. However, I agree with what Lydia and 462 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:16,720 Kate said, but I will sound atone of a little bit more of a negative portion of that. And perhaps 463 00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:23,440 it's because I was the one who spent the longest period of time, 30 years. And by the time I hit 464 00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:28,960 Lieutenant Colonel, I started finding out that there were pieces of glass ceiling all around me 465 00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:36,160 that I kept hitting pretty hard on a couple of occasions. It is a boys club. There is no doubt 466 00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:45,200 about that. And to back up what Lydia said, you will succeed really, really well if you act like 467 00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:54,160 one of the guys. So this is a period where a place where you can really succeed really, really well. 468 00:51:54,160 --> 00:52:01,440 But you have to be willing to take some of the sacrifices that go with that by acting like a 469 00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:10,720 guy, by not taking any kind of, you know, what from anybody, and by picking up that five gallon 470 00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:18,640 slop jar yourself and not expecting anybody else to take it. And, you know, you have to have a very 471 00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:24,640 thick skin to be able to handle some of the things that basically should have been me to movement. 472 00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:30,400 But because of the fact that we wanted to remain in the military, we just pretended it didn't just 473 00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:38,640 happen. So that, but would I suggest it to somebody? Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I think I, you know, 474 00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:44,880 the thing about being in the military is the whole adventure of the whole thing. And, you know, for 475 00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:50,080 whether you're a man or a woman, the whole idea of having this adventure in your life, I think is 476 00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:54,800 important. And we talked about this briefly a couple of weeks ago about mandatory service. And we 477 00:52:54,800 --> 00:53:00,480 just thought that, you know, if everybody not necessarily had to be in the military, but was 478 00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:06,640 active in doing something to, you know, to support the country and to support our ideals and so 479 00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:10,800 forth, that it would be to their benefit. And, you know, if you're in the military, when you get 480 00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:16,960 out, you got all these benefits that come back to you. You know, you've got college, you've got 481 00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:24,720 housing loans, you've got medical care, second to none, based on a lot of statistics out there. 482 00:53:24,720 --> 00:53:30,800 So we've got about two minutes to go. So I'm going to ask you, that's all we've got. So each one 483 00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,880 of you, if you have something that you would like to add to the conversation, please do so. 484 00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:38,960 Please do so. No, no, perfect. All right. 485 00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:39,440 Dead air. 486 00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:48,160 Dead air. Derek, edit that out. All right. So we've been talking today about women in the 487 00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:53,040 military. We've been talking with the board members of Veterans Radio America. And I just 488 00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:58,400 wanted to let you find out, you know, who is supporting this project and this mission. And 489 00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:03,760 we had Kate Melcher, who is, you know, the State State's Army, Dr. Christine Cook, retired Colonel 490 00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:10,800 in the Army, 30 years, and Lydia Pinkham, the United States Coast Guard, E-5 machinery technician, 491 00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:16,640 second class. I've got to talk with Leah off the air to find out what the heck my father's rank was, 492 00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:20,480 because he was in the Coast Guard. I've never quite figured it out. It was E-7 something. 493 00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:30,400 And so anyway, thank you, ladies, for being on the program. And it's such a pleasure to have you 494 00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:37,120 on our board. And it's such a, really my pleasure to know you in actuality, because I get to find 495 00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:42,720 out all kinds of different perspectives about what's going on out there in the world. So thank you 496 00:54:42,720 --> 00:54:48,880 very much. Thank you, Dale. Thanks, Dale. Thank you for the opportunity. All right. We only need 497 00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:53,040 to continue this. We got 10 seconds. We got to go. So this is Dale Thromberry for all of us here 498 00:54:53,040 --> 00:55:08,960 at Veterans Radio, saying we'll be back next week. And until then, you are dismissed. 499 00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:42,960 Thank you.