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All across America and around the world, this is Veterans Radio.

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This is Veterans Radio.

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Welcome to Veterans Radio.

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I am Jim Fausone.

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I'm the officer of the deck today.

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We've got some great programs for you.

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I think you'll find very interesting.

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We always want to remind you you can find more about Veterans Radio at its Facebook site

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or at the web.

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VeteransRadio.org is our new URL, VeteransRadio.org.

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Where we're on the web 24-7, you can find a lot of our podcasts there as well.

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We post new ones every Tuesday, so you can get a new story, a new interview, something

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you didn't know before by going to VeteransRadio.org.

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Before we get started, we want to thank our sponsors.

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First up, we want to thank the National Veterans Business Development Council, NVBDC.org.

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It was established to certify both service-disabled and veteran-owned businesses.

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You'll find out how they can help your business by going to NVBDC.org.

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We want to thank Legal Help for Veterans.

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Legal Help for Veterans fights for veterans' disability rights all across the nation.

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You can reach them at 800-693-4800 or on the web at LegalHelpForVeterans.com.

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This is a conversation that we had with Vice Admiral Kevin P. Green.

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He was 30 years in the Navy.

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We've spoken to him before regarding issues such as the size of the fleet and the relevance

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of NATO, but we wanted to talk to him about the conversations that are going on on recruiting,

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recruiting into the military in general.

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But the Navy in particular, you can't have national security unless you can actually

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man all of the necessary equipment.

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So in that regard, I think he's got some insights.

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He's going to be talking on this issue at the war college soon.

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So we thought it would be good to get his ideas.

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He's been thinking about this for over 20 years.

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So I think he'll enjoy this conversation with Vice Admiral Green.

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Admiral, I'd like to move, if I can, to another topic that you and I have discussed in the

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past and want to flesh out some more.

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And then you can't have all this great gear in the Navy and all these new ships and all

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this integration with unmanned vehicles on the water and under the water and cyber things

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in the space that help project the Navy's intelligence gathering without people.

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And you've talked and thought about the need for retaining and getting the right total

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force for a long time.

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I actually found a 20-year-old document you wrote when you were the deputy chief of naval

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operations for plans, policy, and operations.

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And I know you've written on this topic for a number of different organizations.

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And may I actually have a speech coming up on this?

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So Admiral Green, give us some thoughts about how today the country makes sure we have the

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folks in the Navy, both enlisted in officers, to make sure we can meet those four pillars

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that you outlined earlier as the core missions of the Navy.

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Jim, I'd be happy to do that.

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And let me just begin with a very simple statement.

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These military recruiting shortfall endangers our national security.

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Period and a sentence and a paragraph.

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It endangers national security.

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In this past year, the Army, the Navy, and the Air Force all missed their recruiting

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goals.

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That's despite the fact that many of them went into their delayed entry program pools.

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That is, people who signed up to join the service and they said, well, you know, when

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it gets to be September, that will be a good time for me to go into boot camp or to begin

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my officer training program.

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Well, in some cases, the services had to say, well, we can't wait till September now.

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We've got to get you on board.

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So the Army, the Navy, and the Air Force all missed their goals.

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The Marine Corps made theirs.

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They recruited about 5,000 fewer than they did the previous year, but they did make their

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goals and they should get credit for that.

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The Space Force is still very small and they made their limited goal.

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They are growing, however, and they are in the same environment where finding the right

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kind of people to come in and get them on board, get them trained, and get them deployed

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is going to be a challenge.

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Over on the reserve side, the National Guard generally did okay.

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The reserve component did worse than the services.

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Really, really tough environment for them.

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So why does this matter?

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We don't quite have enough people out there.

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Well, the services and strength has gone down somewhat because of the fact that despite

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the service's best efforts, they have fewer people available and deployable.

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The result of that is that the current operating tempo, that is the operating schedule, the

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deployment schedule, if you will, of trained, equipped, and ready forces to go out and do

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the work that the military services do is unsustainable today at the same rates that

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has been before, at the same time as certain threats around the world seem to be increasing.

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A year ago, we did not expect to be shooting down anti-ship ballistic missiles and drones

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in the Red Sea.

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We didn't expect to be having to put as much focus on the situation in the Western Pacific

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or in the Eastern Mediterranean.

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So the missions are increasing while the services are experiencing manning shortfalls.

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It's placing unfair hardships on military families.

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I'll get back to that in a minute.

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I want to talk about the heavy burdens on our reservists and the National Guardsmen.

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Their families and their employers, they are deploying at a higher rate, a higher rate

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than anticipated and planned for.

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The stress that this situation of decreased manning is placing on the force, among other

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things, among other impacts, is making military parents less likely to encourage their own

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kids to serve.

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Those are their deployment schedule.

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When you have fewer people and you have increasing missions, people are away from home more than

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usual.

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Services are downsizing.

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Billets can't be filled.

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Shipboard manning across the fleet today is less than 90 percent averaged out.

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Some ships, because of their mission and their specific situations, are fully manned, but

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across the fleet, the average is under 90 percent.

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There's more reliance on retention among the services.

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Keeping folks in service once they're there, a big part of that is financial bonuses.

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Sometimes it's connected with additional training or career opportunities.

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There's increased use of civilian contractors to do work that previously had been done by

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military service members.

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That's expensive.

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The retention bonuses are expensive.

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Some of these problems any business has.

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You had a big role at IBM for a long time.

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They had the same problems.

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It is both a combination of how do you get people to join your organization, and that's

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what they've been missing.

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That's the enlistment miss that's been so significant over the last few years.

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Once you get them, you've got to keep them, and that's the retention problem.

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As I understand it, Admiral, this is happening both within listed for the seaman, as well

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as officers in the Navy.

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They all have different causes and different probable solutions.

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Are we doing enough to discern these different issues and find appropriate solutions?

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Yes, there's a tremendous amount of work that's been going on in your spot on target, Jim.

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Let's start with demographics.

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We don't normally think about something like demographics when we're talking about recruiting,

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but we must.

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The national birth rate is declining.

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People are having fewer children.

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At the same time, our population is aging.

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Notwithstanding all of the concerns and the controversy over our borders, immigration,

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in fact, has slowed into the United States in the past year, actually the last couple

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of years.

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There is a lowered propensity to serve.

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What that means is military age potential recruits are less familiar with the military.

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Whenever I'm in business, whenever I meet somebody new and they find out I am a veteran,

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without exception, we'll say, well, thank you for your service.

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I'm not sure that they all really understand what that means, but I appreciate it, and I

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thank them, and then we get on with our conversation.

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But there is less of a connection between the American people and its military force

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and veterans.

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Let me bring that for the veteran radio listeners to more of a practical focus.

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If you never expose your kid to what electrician does or what a welder does, the odds of your

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kid ever going into either of those trades and making a good living is nil, because he

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doesn't know what they do.

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Similarly, as fewer and fewer people are involved in the military and that sort of public service

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to the country, that bigger issue, it seems to me it becomes harder for those kids to

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think, well, maybe this is something I want to do for a while.

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There's a lot of advantages to it, but if they're not exposed to it, how would they

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know?

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I couldn't say it any better than that.

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When the military is distant and unfamiliar, isolated, insulated from the people, why would

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it occur to somebody that that would be a potential career or life experience opportunity

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for them?

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At the same time, there is an awful lot that goes into qualifying for service.

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The factors of health and experience in our youth today are precluding service for many

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of them.

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About 20% of military age young people in the United States today would be qualified

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for service, and that's because of obesity issues.

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We don't like to talk about it much.

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We have a national obesity crisis in the United States.

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We have drug usage, which is disqualifying for military service, arrest records, test

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scores, disqualifying medical conditions, history of medical health treatment, or perceptions

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of hazards.

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Even those who might otherwise be qualified, watch the news or listen to the news or catch

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it online, and what is underlined so often is the hazards and the difficulties and things

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like post trauma stress and perceptions of other kinds of that.

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This is a continuing problem I've got with a lot of the radio ad spots that run.

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They're supposed to be good PSAs for VA.

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All they do is use veterans with, I lost my eye, I lost my leg, I've got PTSD, I have

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a TBI, but VA has helped me.

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That's not a very good message for trying to recruit kids into the military about the

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power of military service.

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I don't think Snappy adds that the Super Bowl either gets the message across right.

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How do we move this in a positive direction?

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Is it just a whole lot of people doing a whole lot of stuff as compared to some unified,

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everybody get on the same page?

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Well, it's a matter of providing the information that people need to make a well-reasoned decision

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with regard to their futures.

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I wouldn't discourage anybody from following their ambition, whether it has to do with

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college or going into the workforce.

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The opportunities, if you talk to the folks in the National Guard who are really focused

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sharply on the issue of veterans finding work in the private sector, they blow away the

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competition because they've lived in a disciplined, orderly, well-managed environment for years.

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They have learned the habits of adults.

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They have learned how to live their lives responsibly and well and contribute and understand

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that leadership isn't just a matter of standing on a box and yelling at people, but the experience

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that they had in uniform carries over beautifully into the private sector as well.

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In other words, what a military tour of duty or career provides to people is extraordinary

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confidence in themselves, extraordinary capabilities, extraordinary knowledge and expertise that

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they would have a very difficult time finding otherwise.

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I say that with full understanding that by all projections with regard to our economy,

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the next 10 years or so it's going to be a job seekers market.

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Being prepared for that market, having the qualifications that military experience provides,

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really puts somebody in a cat bird seat, so to speak.

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There are lots of other ways that we can deal with this issue, but I think just looking

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at the numbers and the facts are important.

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I wanted to mention one of the things, because you brought up obesity and health conditions.

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I think I'm reading that all military services, Navy included, is becoming more attuned to

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giving waivers on health issues because of both the recruiting needs, but also maybe

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a recognition that today versus 20 or 30 years ago, we go to the doctor for everything.

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There's a record of somewhere of you sneezed once, oh, you might not be qualified now.

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If you're out there thinking, I'd like to do this, but maybe I don't have the greatest

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wealth, there is this concept of waivers that as I say, I'm reading that are being used

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more and there's plenty of evidence that those who get into service with a waiver do just

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as well as everybody else.

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Maybe we've overplayed some of those issues.

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Yeah, I spent three years commanding up at Great Lakes where the Navy's boot camp is

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located.

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I'm very, very familiar with these issues, but there are a number of things that are

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really encouraging.

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What we found up there, and this was 25 years ago, was that the more focused the leadership

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is on improving people and strengthening people, the better the retention, the better they

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do in boot camp and beyond.

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The services have just in the past year or so developed courses that address issues

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having to do with obesity, physical fitness, being able to run and all of that prior to

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people ship off to boot camp.

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They also have new programs for academic remediation to get people up to pass the ASVAB, the entry

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exam requirement as well.

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They're taking advantage of the fact that why did somebody not graduate from high school?

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Was it because they didn't have the intellectual potential or they were undisciplined?

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Not at all.

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In many cases, they had to help bring food and money into the house.

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They've been working since they were 16 years old or so.

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This is an unfortunate but often unacknowledged fact.

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These are people who in many cases have already learned a pretty good group of lessons about

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leadership and about discipline.

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These are people who could have a superb future in the service.

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I served for a long time and started a long time ago.

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When the draft was still upon us, a good number of those folks were not high school graduates

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but they were good sailors.

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They performed well.

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They were disciplined and they were learning all the time.

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They got an education during their enlistments.

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It wasn't forced under their throats.

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I think you're hitting on a point that I want to get across to folks if they're out there

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listening and think, I'm not the ideal candidate.

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I'm not the muscle balance so-and-so, 0% body fat.

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The military will want you and will meet you where you're at.

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If that means they have to help you with a health waiver or bring you in and help you

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on getting some educational goal before everything qualifies or get you, as you say, running,

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obesity issues.

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Today's military is really interested in recruiting and helping folks, meeting them

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where they're at and helping them get into shape to be a good service member.

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That includes, and I've talked to a lot of single mothers who say, I got in because I

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needed this and that and the other thing.

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They worked with me knowing I was a young single mother.

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It's kind of a different, I think there's a different culture going on in recruiting

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that really meets the person where they're at.

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Am I over-reading that?

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I don't think you are at all.

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I think, again, you've hit the target right in the center.

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In my view, if you're otherwise qualified and you've got ambition and heart, there's

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a place for you in uniform.

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The services appreciate that and there's an open door.

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In some cases, it may not work out.

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That's always the case.

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It has always been true in the military that there are some folks who, as much as they

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want to, can come in and it doesn't work out for them.

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That number is shrinking because of better leadership, better systems, better programs,

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and a determination to put the real treasure of our country, that is, it's young people,

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into situations where they can succeed, they can do well, they can become proud of themselves,

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and they can go on and serve the country in uniform and beyond.

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Well, I really do appreciate Admiral Green spending some time with us again to talk about

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this important issue, which is recruiting into the Navy and military service in general.

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I think you hit it on the head when you just said, if you have the right ambition and heart,

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military service is going to be available to you and it's going to be a wonderful experience.

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That's really it.

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I think you bring those characteristics to the table.

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Today's military is interested in working with you and getting you into military service.

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So Vice Admiral Kevin P. Green retired from the United States Navy after 30-plus years.

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We really appreciate your thinking and these issues in spending some time with Veterans

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Radio today.

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Thank you, Jim.

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It's been a pleasure.

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And I want to thank everybody for listening to Veterans Radio today.

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I am Jim Fausone.

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It's been a pleasure to be your host.

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I'm a Veterans Disability lawyer at Legal Help for Veterans and you can reach us at

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800-693-4800 or LegalHelpforVeterans.com on the web.

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You can follow Veterans Radio on Facebook and listen to its podcasts and internet radio

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shows by visiting us at veteransradio.org.

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That's veteransradio.org.

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And until next time, you are dismissed.

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If you have a VA claim denied by the Board of Veterans Appeals, contact Legal Help for

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Veterans at 1-800-693-4800.

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They're experts in handling cases before the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims.

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Their number again, 1-800-693-4800.

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We again want to thank our national sponsors, the National Veterans Business Development

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Council, NVBDC.org, VA Ann Arbor Health Care System, the Vietnam Veterans of America, Charles

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S. Kettles Chapter, Ann Arbor, Michigan, VFW Graf O'Hara Post 423 in Ann Arbor, and

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the American Legion Press Corn Post 46 also in Ann Arbor.

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We appreciate all your support.

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You can go to veteransradio.net.

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Click on the sponsor level and continue to support keeping veteransradio on the air.

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And until next time, you are dismissed.